Highlights From HODINKEE Magazine Vol. 6 (And Fantasy Draft Results)¶
Published on Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:00:13 +0000
Picks, pages, and punks.
Synopsis¶
This episode of Hodinkee Radio features multiple segments exploring watches, collecting, and creative storytelling. The show opens with the results of the 2020 Summer Watch Fantasy Draft from episode 93, where Stephen Pulvirent, Cara Barrett, James Stacey, and John Buse competed to build the best five-watch summer collection. Producer Gray Korhonen reveals the results in reverse order: James came in fourth with 20.6% of votes, John third with 22.3%, Cara second with 27.4%, and Stephen won with 29.6% of votes. The close results sparked discussion about their choices, with Stephen acknowledging he accidentally included a watch (the IWC Pilot's Watch Spitfire) that violated the 100-meter water resistance rule. Despite this technical disqualification, the segment highlighted how each collection reflected its creator's personality and approach to summer watches.
The second segment features conversations with Cole Pennington and Jack Forster about their contributions to Hodinkee Magazine Volume 6. Jack discusses his profile of an extraordinary Aston Martin DB2/4 with custom Bertone bodywork, originally purchased as a Christmas gift for calendar mogul Charles A. Ward by his sales team in the 1950s. The car's fascinating history includes Ward's remarkable journey from cattle rustler and alleged narcotics smuggler to successful businessman. Cole describes his trip to Aarhus, Denmark—his last international travel before the pandemic—to profile Jan Togerson, the world's foremost collector of Bang & Olufsen tube radios. The conversation reveals Togerson's dedication to preserving Danish design heritage and his unexpected passion for shortwave radio, including communications with the International Space Station.
Stephen then reflects on his own Reference Points piece about the Tag Heuer Carrera, explaining how deeply researching a watch he wasn't initially passionate about taught him to appreciate the conceptual foundations of watch design rather than just surface aesthetics. He encourages listeners to similarly explore watches they don't immediately connect with to better understand their own preferences. The episode concludes with Ben Clymer discussing his profile of artist Wes Lang, a serious watch collector whose collection spans from vintage Daytonas to Grand Seiko Snowflakes and independent brands like Akrivia. Ben emphasizes how Wes's authenticity and willingness to march to his own beat—in both art and collecting—offers valuable lessons about staying true to personal taste rather than following conventional collecting paths. The conversation highlights how Wes's suburban New Jersey upbringing, particularly the influence of a friend's stockbroker father, shaped his aesthetic sensibilities in unexpected ways.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Stephen Pulvirent | The big takeaway for me from this story, find a watch that you that other people like, that is is popular, is important, is historical, that you don't connect with and like go go deep on it. Go deep on it. And like figure out why you might like it. And ultimately you might not. Like ultimately you might not connect with it. But like I think that exercise is is good and it'll kind of like teach you about what you do and don't like from a more conceptual standpoint, instead of just saying like I like this watch, I don't like that watch, I like this watch, I don't like that watch, you'll start to say this is what I like about watches. Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polveran and this is Hodinky Radio. We have a super fun show for you this week. We've got three great segments, and to kick things off, we've got the results of the 2020 Summer Watch Fantasy Draft. If you haven't listened to Hodinki Radio episode 93, I recommend you go back and check that out. Uh otherwise, this isn't gonna make a whole lot of sense to you, but we brought Kara, James, and John back on the show, and we've also got our producer Gray on the mic. Uh, and Gray is gonna tell us the results of our fantasy watch draft. We're gonna count down from fourth place to first place. You guys voted and picked the winner. I had no idea heading into this who won. And you'll just have to wait and see. But uh in addition to announcing the winner, we also talk about which watches we wish we could have picked and which draft we might do next. After that, we're gonna do a deep dive into volume six of the Hodinki magazine. Uh first up, I've got Cole and Jack coming on to talk about the stories that they wrote for the issue. We've got Cole's profile of one of the world's most prolific Bang'in Olafson radio collectors. And we've got Jack's ode to a unique Aston Martin with a Bertone body and an absolutely insane backstory. And then I'll talk a little bit about the reference points that I put together about the Tagoir Carrera and what it taught me not just about the Carrera, but what it taught me about watches in general. And to finish things up, I was able to get Ben into the virtual studio to talk about the profile that he wrote of the artist Wes Lang. Wes is a real diehard watch collector. He's somebody that doesn't play by anybody else's rules. He's not afraid to break the mold. And as you'll hear, there's a lot we can learn from him about watches and just about how to live our lives in maybe a more interesting way. Ben's got some great insights, as always, and I think you're really gonna love it. So without further ado, let's do this. Hey, how you guys doing? Doing well, how are you? Good. It's Friday. It's Friday in the uh Hodinky verse. Friday what? In the universe. And the universe, yeah, I guess okay. It's it's it's Friday outside the Hodinky verse as well. But uh everywhere but Australia.. Yeah Car is gearing up for another Friday live. I'm gearing up for a weekend. I think uh I think life's good. Very good. We've got uh we've got our producer Gray here as well, in addition to John, Kara and James. How's it feel to be on Mike, Gray |
| Ben Clymer | ? Uh you know, the terrifying lows and the the dizzying heights of being on Hodinki Radio once again. Thanks for thanks for having me |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . We're here to give you the results of the 2020 Summer Watch Fantasy Draft, which we did a couple weeks ago uh in episode 93. If you haven't listened to episode 93, go back and listen to it or this segment isn't gonna make a whole lot of sense. Um, you know, it was it was one of our fantasy draft episodes. The goal was to build a five-watch summer Wchat collection. There were some rules about uh pricing and how we drafted. You can go read those. I'll we'll link it up in the show notes. Uh, it'll make a lot more sense than me just kind of re-explaining it here. But before Gray reveals the results, which none of the four of us have seen, uh it's probably a good idea to just quickly go back through our collections. So Kara, you wanna maybe kick us off and just walk us through your five watches |
| Cara Barrett | ? Sure. Okay, so my picks were the Rolex Subno Date, the paddock, Nautilus reference 7118A, the Zodiac Super Sea Wolf with the Blue, the Freestyle Shark Watch, and the Apple Watch Series 5. How do you feel about your collection there? How do you feel about your chances? I feel really I feel really good about my chances. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna mean I I like I hope I lost 'cause I was just so arrogant to say that I feel so good about my chances. But All right, we'll see. I think it's a good collection. I think it hits all the beats. You got the smartwatch, you got the casual watch, you got the fancy watch, you got the mid-range watch. And they all are you can all kind of go in the pool |
| Stephen Pulvirent | with them. So I feel good about that. All right. All right. Let's uh we'll we'll see how this plays out. Uh James, you wanna you wanna go next? Tell us about your collection |
| James Stacey | . For sure. So I got an Ottomar Pegay Royal Oak Offshore Diver. Blue and yellow is the spec, nice blue rubber for summer. Next up the Omega Seamaster Ploprof, uh, which I think is just doesn't require a lot of explanation. A hilarious watch that I really wish I uh I actively had this summer, not just in this fantasy draft. Uh next up I, took a Doxa 300 TC Rambler, which I really like. The silver dial with the orange accents. Looks even better, you know, just barely breaking the surface of uh some water, whether it be a pool, a lake, or the ocean. Um for my fourth pick I went with uh the only of these that I actually have and wear quite a bit, the Garmin Phoenix 6S Pro. Uh lots of active time during the summer, whether it be hiking or swimming or could it be kayaking or whatever? Uh it's always good to uh have some metrics for that kind of thing and and the the Phoenix makes a a pretty solid argument for kind of a tool smartwatch. And then finally the Halios Fairwind, the forthcoming Halios Fairwind, which is just kind of like a gorgeous uh you know indie diver from uh from Vancouver that uh is one that I'm very much looking forward to. Awesome. How do you feel about your chances |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ? I think I've got a fight for sure. Any anything controversial in here? Anything you think is gonna either like push you over the top or kind of uh kneecap you here |
| James Stacey | ? Um I think the AP is probably like a crowd favorite. It's such a fun watch. Like I think you could even like not like royal Oaks and still be like, oh, but that one is dope. Um and then I think you know there's there's there will always be a contingent of uh of uh you know hodinky readers and and bless their hearts, they're not necessarily wrong. That just don't like smart watches. And I totally get that. For me, if I actually like lay out the stuff I have on my desk, got one here, got another one in the drawer there. As long as you keep 'em charged, they're pretty handy. But I understand that they just functionally are uh more of an appliance than uh an object of fascination. So I think that could probably uh maybe hurt my overall chances in a fantasy draft, but uh I'm pretty comfortable with the picks. Okay. |
| John Buse | John, how about you? Let's uh let's hear what you got and how you're feeling about it. Yeah. So I started off with the Bulgari Octofinissimo automatic s uh with in satin polished uh steel, uh, which I think was that was my first pick. Um, and I grabbed it, you know, mainly because I love that watch's design. Uh uh, but also because, you know, this is the first one from that family to have a hundred meters of water resistance. So it's the first octofenesimo that I think is like a very solid summer watch. So I chose that one. Then I went in a much more like tool watch kind of direction and picked the Tutor Pelagos left-hand drive for my second watch. So that had my you know my dive watch base covered um and then you know wanting to get something from Seiko or Grand Seiko into the mix I picked up the uh Seiko prospect uh alpinist which is just like a great wearing kind of you know comfortable um everyday watch uh that I think is a great summer watch, but you know, you can wear that year round, uh I think. Uh and then um I noticed, if I if I recall correctly that the uh the the Panorai submersible forty two was still on the table uh with my fourth pick and so I went and snapped that up. Even though I already had a dive watch, I think of uh the submersible is you know, I mean it's like a it's like a design object. It's a it's a panoria with uh you know, just that kind of iconic profile. Um and it's uh I chose the one with that, you know, very beautiful shark skin gray uh dial. And I just remember when this watch dropped, I was like, God, that's a be that's a beautiful, beautiful uh submersible. Uh and then um you know wanting to get uh a quartz watch into the mix wanting to get something digital with with with multi-functions and um not really seeing much as I recall on left on the table in terms of smart watches. Uh I snapped up the G Shock DW5600, which is, you know, I mean that's a watch that I I currently own, one of them, and uh there's always a place for this watch uh in my collection somewhere or not. Nice. How do you how do you feel about your chances here uh I think I've got a fighting chance um but I think there are some other very good collections here so we'll have to wait and see |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Alright. Uh I will run through mine then and then we'll we'll get into the results. So I drafted uh the IWC pilots watch Spitfire Automatic as just like a great everyday sports watch on a on a NATO. I drafted the Cartier Santos uh in steel on the bracelet. The Grand Seco SBGA 413, which is the US Spring Edition. It's a spring drive watch. It's got this beautiful sort of like textured light pink dial. I think it's an amazing, amazing, amazing summer watch. Then I picked the Doxa Sub 200. I realized I didn't have a dive watch, so I went with something uh from Doxa. Um I also picked the the Sea Rambler dial, the kind of like light silver. Um there's something about a light dial dive watch that I think is really, really special and cool. Um, and that beads of rice bracelet is is really awesome. Uh and then last up, uh, in the absence of any smartwatch choices or real digital watch choices, which I you, know, in all honesty, Cara, I was really gunning for that Apple Watch, but uh I ended up taking the Unimatic Modella Uno, um, which to me is is awesome. I remember seeing somewhere somebody described it uh as looking like a uh an Italian studying abroad at the Bauhaus. Uh I can't remember who wrote that where, but I I love that and I think that's a perfect description. Yeah, exactly, right? Um and I love that description of this. Like it's it's minimal, but it's still recognizable as a dive watch. Um I just think it's awesome. So I'm I was glad there was room in my collection for that. Um yeah, as far as my chances go, uh I I think I've got a shot. I think this is a slightly idiosyncratic uh summer watch collection. I think the lack of smartwatch is a little strange or some kind of digital like beater watch. Um the Cartier and the Grand Seiko are maybe a little dressier than what most people would think of for summer watches. So I don't I don't really know. Uh I I think it's uh there's four strong collections here. I think four collections, each with their own personality. I mean, Kara's is is a mix of classics like the sub and the Nautilus with more colorful fun things like the Zodiac and the Freestyle. I think James has kind of assembled like a perfect storm of like real like badass tool watches here. I mean we have the Ploprof, we have the Doxa, we've got the AP, which is obviously an elevated version, uh, and then even the Garmin and the Helios. I think John's collection has ended up being sort of like a mix of classics and and design classics, you know, with the the Bulgary and the submersible. And then I think maybe mine is just a little bit weird, uh, to be to be honest. So we'll uh we'll we'll see what happens here. But uh Gray, you uh you you're the man with the results, right? You've got the envelopes? Yes, sir. Let's do this. Let's break some hearts. Alright, let's break some hearts here. You want to do a count down from fourth place to first place? Yep, you're the boss. Let's do it. Uh drum roll |
| Ben Clymer | please for the fourth place. In fourth, we have with twenty point six |
| Stephen Pulvirent | percent of the vote. It is Mr. James Stacy. Wow. I'm a little surprised there. Gotta be honest |
| Cara Barrett | . Me too. I thought that was I thought your collection was hot watch summer. But if that was twenty four percent, that means it w it was a pretty close race. Yeah, that's a big percentage for yeah. W |
| John Buse | ell still that's a big percentage. Great mental math, Cara. It was a very close race overall |
| Ben Clymer | . Everyone was within ten points of each other, uh, ten percentage points. Um and yes, James with twenty point six narrowly missed the third place design |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ation. Yeah, I took my own James. I think I think that Garmin probably probably did you in, but I I applaud you sticking to your guns. But James loves Garmin |
| James Stacey | . Yeah, it's five great watches. I'm I wouldn't I wouldn't change my picks now. Not for three more percent. I like that. |
| Ben Clymer | I agree. Fair enough. Moving right along to third place. Drum roll, please. Mr. John Buse |
| John Buse | with twenty two point three percent of the vote. All right. I'll t I'll take it. I'm happy with my picks too. So uh yeah, no uh I'm interested to see uh who uh who comes out on top. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Steve Yeah, what do you what are you thinking here, C B? Shit. What if we tied? We flipping a coin here or uh what's what's going on? Cage match. I mean, for us to tie would be really difficult because this goes out to like two or three decimal places. It would be it would be pretty pretty weird if we tied. Okay. A statistical tie, right |
| Ben Clymer | ? I'm getting a little anxious now. All right |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . I know, me too. Alright, I won't leave you |
| Ben Clymer | dangling any much longer. All right, second place. Okay. Drum roll, please. Do your virtual handshake, Karan Steven Second place goes to Miss Cara Barrett with twenty seven point four percent of the vote, meaning our champion SA |
| Stephen Pulvirent | P with twenty nine point six. There you go, Steven. That's never happened before. It's that wind that's been eluding you. I know, man. I've been I'm um I keep coming up coming up to bat and striking out. This uh this is all right. I think that you product probably end |
| John Buse | ed up helping you out to be honest. I know that you yeah, I know that you were you wanted to go in another direction uh during the recording, but uh I think that unimatic got you over the edge. That was a good one |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . I think you're I think you're probably right. I mean great, what was what was the final percentage there? Uh Steven wins with twenty-nine point six percent of the vote. And what was Kara's percentage? Twenty-seven point four. Boom. Whoa. Real time be by a lot. That's very close. So I gotta say, I think my main takeaway from this is that we did a really good job picking the pre-selected watches here. That, you know, we've got twenty watches and it seems like people liked, you know, in the aggregate all 20 of them. You know, there wasn't there weren't any two or three watches that seemed to like kind of drag somebody down here or like push somebody way over the top. Yes. I |
| Cara Barrett | agree with that. I also think it was like quarters. I feel like the cl pr the percentages are so close |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. I think that means we did a good job. I think that means everybody picked a a pretty strong collection and uh again I think it means the the watches we had to pick from were were good. |
| Cara Barrett | Everybody found something that they loved. And that's really what matters. Congrats on your wins, Steve. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | There are no winners here. That's great. I love I love that Kara says there are no winners here because she didn't win. If I had one, it would have been a good one. Yeah. That was a really uh that was a really smart sort of uh soft way of s of being a sore loser but uh I applaud I applaud that Cara. I've really grown Steven okay leave me alone. I we all have okay uh we |
| James Stacey | 've all grown. Um we are we gonna point out that Stevie took top prize with a watch that technically doesn't align with the rules |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . So all right, I I can I can be the the you know guy standing on the podium here and you know raising the trophy over my head. But uh I've got I've got a I've got a mea culpa here, uh, which is that I screwed up. Uh I accidentally put a watch on the list that violated the draft rules, and then I drafted that watch, and then I won with that watch. So technically, I think uh my name has to be scratched off the uh off the trophy at this point, but uh the IWC is technically, only six not even technically, it is only 60 meters water resistant. Uh I misread the spec page when I was looking through. Uh technically everything here needed to be 100 meter water resistant. Uh it does have a screw-down crown, so I'm less worried about it. But uh technically I violated the rules, so I guess Kara technically you you win if I'm disqualified here. Well, if we're playing this game, isn't the uh seventy tech |
| Cara Barrett | also sixty meters. So, John B |
| John Buse | use. |
| James Stacey | John Buse by default. It's just two two names with the asteriskes next to it |
| John Buse | . Yeah. Yeah. The Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa of uh watched raft. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Okay. Full juice. It could be worse. I could I could be the Bill Buckner of uh fantasy draft. So as long as I'm not doing that, I'm okay. Um yeah, next time uh I gotta pay attention more. That's uh that's what I've taken away from this. Not that I'm a winner, but that I'm an idiot. So uh thank you guys for being understanding, both the listeners and my long suffering colleagues who I put through this whole exercise, only to find out I made the list wrong. So thanks guys. Classic oop de oop. Classic classic oop de |
| Cara Barrett | ep. Oh sorry guys. I'm a victim of my own my fault |
| Stephen Pulvirent | You know, we we obviously the big the big reveal is is the you know kind of centerpiece of this, but I I do think it's worth circling back and talking a little bit about our collections, the watches we like best, the things that kind of eluded us. So you know, I wonder just to run back through, we can do it in the same order. I mean if y if you had to pick one watch from your collection and you had to wear that watch every day from let's say like May to September, right? Which which of your five watches, if it had to be your one watch of the summer, what are what are you going with? We'll start with with Kara again. I think the sub. Ye |
| Cara Barrett | ah. Yeah, just any reason. Just 'cause like I th you it just goes with everything. It's just like a classic. You just kinda can't 'cause like I think that's actually the most realisti |
| Stephen Pulvirent | c watch that I would wear every day. Fair. Fair enough. |
| James Stacey | Uh James, what uh which of your five would you wear? Uh I mean it's not a realistic answer, but I'd wear the AP for sure. It'd be so much fun. Um the the real answer is probably the watch closest to something I actually own, which is the 300T. I I would wear a fiftieth anniversary, which I think is a bit sweeter of a watch, but uh I have the C Rambler, it's lovely. Nice. |
| John Buse | John? Uh I'd wear the Octofini Simo every day. Um I might be a little bit nervous about yeah I I I might be a little bit nervous about some of the surfaces kind of getting scratched um for like you know true summerware but uh that's the one that I would that I would you know be happiest to put on every day during the summer |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Nice. Love it. Yeah I, think I'd go with the IWC. Uh and I say that mostly because, you know, kind of similarly to James, like I I own the Hodinky limited edition uh IWC pilot. And it's the watch I've been wearing most of the summer by far. I would say I probably wear it like two-thirds of the time uh this this summer. Uh it's just the fact that it's thin, it's on a NATO, it's like to me, it's kind of a perfect, like no bullshit summer watch. Um but uh all right, I think let's uh let's go back through and is there a watch that you didn't get to draft? Maybe it wasn't on the pre-approved draft list, but a a summary watch that you you would have wanted if you know there had been fewer rules or if we had done the list a little bit differently. Kara, you want to go first? I think I'm gonna steal your modello uno. Interesting. How about the Mecena Labs limited edition one? John, you own one of those, right? Uh I actually do, yeah. That's a fantastic watch. That's uh that's awesome. I've actually been wearing it a lot, uh, this summer. It's a Modello Uno but it's like it's got a tropical vibe. It's I I could see you rocking that, Cara. Yeah, I |
| Cara Barrett | like I I think they do a really nice job and I agree. I think it's like it's a great summer watch. So yeah, I would go. I mean, I think I had the opportunity to pick that one, but just to round out my collection, I just I didn't because it was very similar to the sub for me. But I thought I think I really like I I just I really like those watches and they're great. That' |
| Stephen Pulvirent | s my pick. Cool. James. This is watches uh picks we would change. Yeah, not even you don't even have to swap anything out, but like is there is there a watch you wish you could have in your summer watch collection that like didn't didn't make it in? It can even be something that we we weren't you know |
| James Stacey | that wasn't on the table to be drafted. Yeah I think as far as these picks go you know I think in a in an ideal world the Ploprof wouldn't the the the no date version of the Ploprof wouldn't have pushed it into a five dollar category. Uh it it broke the so we had to go with the date version. I actually think this is the only four thirty date that I I don't mind.f you look at the image, it it almost disappears in the in the minute track. But it's still a 430 date. And if I'm spending like 10K on a watch, that's gonna bug me. Um so I would go with the no date version without question. Otherwise, I'd like I said with the sub three hundred, I I vastly prefer the the fiftieth anniversary models, but of course those are were all sold out immediately in 2017. Um and then beyond, you know, a a watch I wear a lot in the summer is my Explorer too. Uh but it's the last gen, so it's not something you can get now. I I assume it's not that easy to buy uh the current gen, but it's also the it's the forty two millimeter version with the kind of trecioni inspired hand and and that kind of thing. And and I I really prefer the the 16570 uh with its kind kind of more svelt case. But that white dial works year-round, obviously polar, I guess maybe it it makes more sense with uh uh snow gear rather than swim trunks, but uh it's pretty sweet on a bracelet and uh has decent water resistance as well. So |
| John Buse | nice. John, what are you uh what are you thinking? Uh I kind of um well I uh uh you know looking at what I did uh draft, I kind of wish that I had drafted a bit more color into uh the collection. And so I'm just looking at some of the launches that you guys picked, like I think Kara's like Zodiac Seawolf was a great pick. James with the uh with the Raylook offshore uh diver, great pick. Um and then uh Stephen U with the uh with the Grand Seiko that you selected. I kind of wish that like that would that you know aspect of uh you know summer watch design was a little bit better represented than what I had in uh in my |
| Stephen Pulvirent | collection. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Uh I'm gonna go the opposite direction from you, John, and I'm gonna pick like an extremely austere watch. No, no surprises there for anyone. I kind of wish I could have picked the the Tudor Black Bay 36 as a die-hard 1016 lever. That's kind of the other watch I've been wearing a lot this summer. Um, you know, the BB36 is the closest thing you can buy on the market today to a 1016 from the Rolex family. Um, and I just think it's an incredible watch. I think 36 millimeters is such a versatile size. That watch wears great on a bracelet. It wears great on a NATO. It wears great on like a super thin purlon strap. And it's basically a, 10-16 that you can jump in a pool with or take to the beach. So I think in an ideal world, uh I would have I would have taken that, but we put the Pelagos on our list as as tutor's representative in this in this draft, which I I stand behind. I think ultimately the the Pelagos is more kind of representative of what we were going for here, but I would have loved that that BB36 in my uh in my collection. So I think that's all the time we got, but uh thank you guys for doing this. al Asways, I think judging by the popularity of this, we're gonna be doing another fantasy draft sometime soon. Maybe we'll do another one uh as we transition to fall. Maybe we'll do a no bracelet, like an all leather straps, fantasy draft. Uh I would say if you're listening, uh go visit the site and drop us a note in the comments or hit us up on Instagram uh and let us know what fantasy draft you would like to see. We'll do another one in a couple weeks. So uh let us know your ideas and we'll try to try to incorporate those in. But uh John, Cara, James, Gray, thanks everybody for uh for doing this. Uh despite my uh totally blowing the rules, I appreciate you all being good sports here. And uh yeah, we'll have to have you guys back on again soon. We're not cheating, it was a blast. Thanks, Steve. Congratulations. Thanks, team. Talk to you guys soon. Up next, we've got my conversation with Cole Pennington and Jack Forster about their contributions to volume six of the Hodinki magazine. Hey guys, good to see ya how you doing? Hey there Steven. Doing okay, how you doing? Good, good. I'm happy uh we're gonna we're gonna talk some hodinky magazine, which always makes me happy. My fav my favorite topic. Me too. Uh cool. Well I I wanted to have you guys on the show here uh because a couple weeks ago, uh, we dropped Volume Six of the Hodinky magazine, which I cannot believe we're already on volume six, but uh you guys both contributed uh pretty heavy hitting stories to this volume. And I thought it'd be fun to have you on the show to talk about kind of the reporting process and what you learned and to give people a little bit of a a preview to your story in case they haven't uh read it yet. And then for those who have, they'll get the the behind the scenes stuff. So uh does that sound good? Sounds fantastic. Steven, how did you uh how did you find the uh the whole sort of creative process this time around? I thought it was great. I think you know I'm I'm always shocked. Like we get in in this world with the website, which both of you will know well, where, you know, we're focused on the news, we're trying to crank things out quickly, it's day-to-day, we're often in a rush. And the magazine is this nice chance to kind of like step back and think big. Like we're we're producing two of them a year. Uh, often the stories take six to twelve months to put together. Uh, and it's it's great, and we kind of turn people loose too. Like, it's it's really interesting sitting around the table with our team who is normally very focused on on watches, vintage watches, new releases, news, whatever, uh, and say like, if you could read any story about a car, what would it be? If you could interview any collector, who would it be? If you could write a story about architecture or food or travel, like what's your dream story? And everybody brings the heat every time. So I've I found it tremendously fulfilling as usual. Um I I don't know. What did what did both of you think of the the process this time around? I'm sweating just thinking about it. I no pressure, Cole |
| Jack Forster | . You know what's funny how the amount of um work expands to fill the available time. Even though we only publish twice a year it uh Very true. Once we once we get close to deadline, it uh feels like we're publishing a daily |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, and I mean for people who who are not behind the scenes on this, so basically everyone except the the three of us here, uh you know, pe people may not realize that like Jack edits every word that's in this magazine. Like if you're reading it on the page, Jack has seen it and signed off on it. So it's for Jack especially as stuff comes to a head at the end and we we get stuff in layout and we're really like passing around proofs. Like Jack is reading every word three, four, five times under deadline, trying to make sure that, you know, typos don't slip through and that we're fact-checking everything properly. So it's really, yeah, like you said, it it fills the available time, and especially I feel like on the back end Jack you you feel the pressure there pretty pretty hard. Well you know I think we all do |
| Jack Forster | . I mean I know that um I mean I can't take credit for uh you know I feel even a tenth of what goes into the magazine in terms of uh editorial labor, I feel like uh you know you carry a lot of that. Our design team carries a lot of it. There's a lot of eyes on this product and uh I'm happy to say um I think we can all feel pretty proud of each issue. You know there's always things that can improve, but boy |
| Stephen Pulvirent | , oh boy, I uh no, I like it more with every issue. I would agree. So with that in mind, Jack, I think let's let's start with your big story for this issue, which uh you wrote about a car, a slightly bigger beautiful mechanical object than what you typically write about. Can you can you give us a little taste of of what this story is about and then we'll we'll talk about some of the behind the scenes stuff? Sure. It's a really wonderful um it was a really wonder |
| Jack Forster | ful story and I felt very, very lucky to uh to be able to write it. So the basic um the core of the story is that uh in the early nineteen fifties um there was a gentleman who was the CEO of a calendar company, and this was during a time when calendars were huge, huge business in the United States. And the uh the gentleman's name was Charles A. Ward, and uh he had um really built himself up from uh from nothing to become the CEO of this giant publishing firm, basically. The company was so big that uh there was a period in U.S. history when uh there was one uh calendar from this company uh for every three Americans. That's how sort of huge it was. And uh you know they did everything that you could possibly imagine a desktop calendars, wall calendars, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And he had Charles Ward had actually met the guy who owned the company when they were both in prison. Ward was in prison on a narcotics rep, which he always claimed was trumped up. And before that, he'd had an extremely checkered past. He'd done things like worked for Pancho Villa during the Mexican Revolution and stolen cattle to uh feed his troops down in Texas. So this was a guy who'd been around a little bit. And uh when he got out of prison, he sort of turned his entire life around, went to work for the company, and um rose up through the ranks to eventually become uh president after the owner's demise. And uh his uh leadership was so important that uh a bunch of his sales reps got together, fifty some odd guys got together and they bought him this car as a Christmas present. Uh but it was not any ordinary car. It was an Aston Martin DB24. And the DB24 was uh an early uh DB series Aston Martin. DB stands for David Brown. David Brown was uh the owner of Aston Martin. And um the car uh did not have a stock uh body, the uh body work was actually done by Bertoni, and um the the body work is absolutely gorgeous. Uh it's uh an unbelievable car to look at. Fire engine red with these with a wonderful long nose and beautiful bright work and these wonderful sort of elegant swooping lines. I mean it's uh it's a car that looks like it's uh doing a hundred and ten miles an hour sitting still. Of course, by modern standards, you know, I mean it's hopelessly technically obsolete by modern standards, non-synchronized clutch and the whole nine yards. But you know, just as a piece of uh absolutely classic, gorgeous mid-century uh automotive design. Uh, I think it's maybe the most beautiful car I've ever seen. Certainly one of the top ten. And uh the guy who owns the car actually has uh bought it twice. Uh he bought it, uh sold it at auction and uh immediately regretted it and I think six years later uh you know, bought it back again because he missed it so much. Um but in any case That's how you know something's good |
| Stephen Pulvirent | , right? Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So so nice you bought it twice? Yep. And probably paid |
| Jack Forster | a lot more for it the second time. I'm sure. Yeah, it's uh it's crazy the amount of detail that went into the car. You know, I mean it was uh it was designed for the uh extremely wealthy and very outgoing gentleman of leisure, which Charles Wood certainly was. He was over six feet tall, pensioned for loud suits, uh, liked to wear cowboy hats. Um, and uh the car really suited his personality. It is uh effervescently beautiful. Um it came with uh I think there's a there's a couple of medallions on the car with his initials on them. There's a plaque under the hood inscribed with the names of uh uh all of the guys who uh chipped in to buy this car. It was I think the most expensive car sold in the United States the year that it was sold. So this was not uh not an inexpensive Christmas present. Uh and it even came with a uh picnic basket and this was no ordinary picnic basket uh you know uh cutlery and silverware and uh you know, beautiful um hand handmade wooden box. Uh I mean just the whole thing was just uh amazing. You would it's the kind of car you would take out maybe twice a year to take your uh uh Lady Love on a you know uh picnic to remember but uh boy oh boy would you enjoy the drive. Oh, and a ragtop, of course |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . That's wild. I love the image of some dude in a giant cowboy hat driving this car around the United States in the 50s. Like it's it's so crazy to imagine what that must have looked like. Like we can appreciate this car looking back, but imagining what that car would have looked like to contemporaries at the time, it must have it must have looked unbelievable. |
| Jack Forster | Yeah, I th I mean it looks it looks so unbelievable today and makes such an impression today. Um we actually had a chance to ride around in it a little bit during the photo shoot. And uh you know it's a showstopper. I mean uh you know, people were digging out their uh cell phones to take pictures. Um it was just uh uh an incredibly satisfying car to drive around in. And it's not the kind of car that sort of like elicits envy or makes people want to key scratch it when they see it. Uh you know, it just makes people it makes people feel happy. Um, you know, it's not a go-to- it's not a go-to-hell car. It's not a, you know, look what I got that you don't have car it's just something that everybody kind of wants to celebrate when they see it. I mean that's how good it is. And uh yeah it was a wonderful wonderful experience uh you know just to just to get driven around in it. I didn't actually have a chance to drive it because uh uh I it's got a non synchronized clutch and I think I probably would have gotten about uh five feet before uh you know, before stalling out. Um but uh it was sure sure fun to s uh to sit sit up front and uh you know just cruise around on a bright cold day and uh experience this amazing automobile. Did did you wear a cowboy hat and a a loud suit? |
| Stephen Pulvirent | No. No. I I I worry uh We should have we should have gotten that photo and put that on the cover. That would have been speaking of showstoppers, that would have been pretty incredible. Yeah, it was |
| Jack Forster | actually uh I forget what I wore, but whatever it was, it wasn't a freezing cold day with a with a really, really high wind and you know you, sort of don't get that when you look at the pictures, but uh we were freezing our butts off by the end of the day |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. Uh I mean I mean, Cole, you're you're much more of a car guy than I am, but like this is a car that when when I heard about it, like I had never heard this before. Like I didn't know that Pertone had done a series of uh D B two uh D B two fours. It's not really a series either though. Like it's not even a series. Right. A a small a small collection of cars, but like was this something on your radar? Like is this in the car mythos or is this kind of like even outside of that |
| Cole Pennington | ? classic car guys realm. Totally weird thing that uh a lot of the owners of these cars and so forth keep it kinda private. So it's like you don't really know yeah the this to to learn about this car is |
| Stephen Pulvirent | That's great. I mean Jack, was there was there anything that as you reported this out, like anything that stands out to you as the the most surprising thing you learned or the most interesting thing that you learned? Uh, and it can be something that made it into the story or not, but just like the thing that to you stands out from the experience of reporting I mean the car is such a beautiful object uh in |
| Jack Forster | itself, uh without knowing anything about the story behind it. You know, if you're at all sensitive to sort of great design, um you can't look at it uh without uh without just feeling really, really carried away. But that said, to me, one of the most fascinating things about the whole thing was the people story that's behind it. Uh you know, the car was purchased from a guy named uh his nickname was Wacky, uh Wacky Arnold, uh who was uh one of the first Aston Martin dealer, I think he might have been the first Aston Martin uh dealer, uh certainly in his area, maybe in the United States. And uh he had actually made his fortune during World War II is selling small watercraft engines to the U.S. Navy, which I guess in World War II was a huge business. And then after the war, he went on to um uh get into another business, which was uh selling high-end automobiles. And uh Aston Martin was one of them and he actually ran into Bertone uh in an auto show um I think in nineteen fifty nineteen fifty one maybe. Um I'd have to double check back in the story. Um but you know Bertone was still in super, super cash poor, you know, post-World War II mode. And uh Arnold actually ordered two hundred uh bodies from Bertoni, but only six of them uh ended up on um D V two fours. So there it's a it's a super rear car. Um I there's one other one that I know of that's in the UK. Just tracking down these uh you know these six cars was uh you know a a tremendously exciting thing to do because it took a little bit of detective work. You know, there's bits and pieces um, you know, sort of all over the place about those uh about those six six maybe seven uh bodies that went on DB two fours. Um and they're all they're all beautiful. Uh but this one is I think uh by far the most striking. And uh you know of course Charles of course Charles Ward was a fantastic story too. I mean uh you know a a ex-cattle rustler ex-narcotic smuggler turned a calendar mogul. That's the kind of thing that I think it only happened in the you know it it certainly couldn't happen now. You know, nineteen nineteen forties, nineteen fifties was a was a good time for that sort of thing |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . That's awesome. Well, uh, you know, you traveled to Connecticut to report this, but uh Cole traveled a little bit further uh for his story, uh kind of right before global travel shut down. I think Cole might have been Cole, you might actually have been the last Hodinky editor to travel internationally uh this year. That's that's true. Uh to report this story. Yeah, that is true. That's awesome. Uh so you went to Aarhus, Denmark, uh, to report on the world's foremost collector of Bang and Olafson tube radios, uh, which is a story that you and I have been working on for what Yeah, a long time. Um But I'm pretty pretty excited with how it turned out. Can you give people I'll let you give people the the kind of like uh TLDR version uh right? TLDR is uh |
| Cole Pennington | there's a fellow well well first off yeah okay we'll start there. There's a guy named Jan Togerson, a uh a Dane who has amassed yeah, the most comprehensive collection of tube radios, but that even in itself is kind of misleading. He's got everything that Bangin' Allison has done, which even includes, as you'll see in the story, electric shavers. That's what they produced. That don't that saved the company too. But what's super interesting about Jan is um he's got that I think we've talked about it. We've talked about this a million times, but the collector gene, right? So Right. What do I know about two radios? What did I know going into this? Not much. But it all worked out beautifully because that collector gene, you just, you know, immediately establish a relationship and so forth. And then he really walked me through the collection and how he came to amass the collection, which that's the the most fascinating part. But the thing that I found interesting was the design element i of Bang Nolison. You kinda you know, prior to the story I knew that they were one of the most high-end audio brands, the kind of mass mass consumer audio brands. And uh when I went there and started talking to Jan, he's he pointed out how like some of the surfaces and so forth mirrored automotive design of the time. And um these th and seeing them in front of you, you kinda like what Jack said, like you can't help but just appreciate how beautiful this thing is. So uh yeah, he's got this collection in a industrial park in the basement of a building in an industrial park outside of Aarhus. Uh which that's kind of interesting too. Aarhus is nothing like uh Copenhagen and so forth. It's totally different. It's on Jutland, the other side of Denmark, and uh it's like uh Germanic. It's the Germanic portion. So very it's a port as well. So it's kind of a uh an industrial city, I guess I would say. Like it's not yeah, it's it's it's kind of a neat place too. Um so went down and Jan walked me through the collection and uh and you could read the story on on how he got some of these things, but he developed relationships with royalty in the Middle East. He would literally get in his car and drive all over continental Europe, knock on people's doors, and ask like, hey, do you have an old radio hanging around? Which at the time wasn't uncommon. People did. People had radios just hanging out in their garages. So and he he bought them. And he he saw n not only is he super passionate about it, but and that drove this, but he also saw the value and or that they would become value at some valuable at some point. Um when no one else did. So he was the guy who kind of he knew that these radios were so important to not just the audio world, but also really Denmark. It's it's a kind of a national pride thing as well. |
| Jack Forster | You know, Cole, it's funny. Um there's so much eye candy in that story. You know, these are such beautiful, be it's one sort of amazing classic uh you know, high-end audio file design after another. And uh I don't think I mentioned this to you when you were working on the story, but uh I actually have a Biramog nine thousand um system which is uh I think some it's uh from uh you know quite a bit later and it's something that uh you know modern audiophiles might be a little bit more familiar with. But my mom got it as a retirement present. She used to be an editor at Stereo Review. Oh wow. And uh still got it in still got it in my apartment. Um, you know, and it's a beautiful thing to look at. So for me, uh, you know, I wouldn't call myself a bang and all of us enthusiast necessarily because I don't know the company's history of production nearly well enough to sort of you know claim that title. But it was great looking at the story and seeing uh you know where some of the design language for the system that I have came from |
| Cole Pennington | . Yeah, it's and and that's the thing. That's what's cool about it. You can easily trace it, right? It's it's a lot like Rolex or a lot like Porsche nine eleven, like it small iterations over time and and they to create the best product. So I I should have uh you should have mentioned that. I would have uh included in the story. It's a celebrity came |
| Stephen Pulvirent | o Is so fascinating. The use of woods and bakelight and brushed metal and like all of these different things and the way that they transform over time, but they they still feel connected to one another. So, you know, you can have a radio from you know 1970s uh that's mostly aluminum, and you can have a radio from the 1950s that's mostly wood and bakelite, and yet like they feel of a kind in a way, and I think that's a really hard thing to achieve. And the way that Jan has assembled this collection really like it's not just a collection, it's also in some ways like it tells a story. It's it's an encyclopedia, but one that you can like walk through and touch as opposed to just like reading on a page |
| Cole Pennington | . He's kind of the go-to guy. Um but I'll tell you one thing that didn't make it into the story, if you want to hear. Um, it's just super super cool. So, yes, Jan is the foremost collector of Bang and Oliveson, but after we went through that uh you know, w went through the collection, whatever, you know, we're there. I mean we're we're essentially guests in a way. And he took it upon himself to bring us into another world of his, which is shortwave radio Oh, is he a he's a hammy? He's a hammy. Interesting. What we did is after, you know, we went from this industrial park, we followed him, you know, uh we rented a car, Josh, Josh Perez, who shot the story, and I we rented a car and followed him through these small villages and stopped at a bakery, got some awesome cake croissant stuff like that. And then um then he he we pull up to this intra this farmhouse. Like the satellite itself, the it's not, it's an antenna, but it's that is the size of a house. So pull up, go inside and um he takes us into a studio and says, Yeah, this is what I do pretty much in my free time. Like I built this just for shortwave radio. And he's he's actually spoken through shortwave radio with people on the ISS. That's how into it he is. Interesting. And he gave us a demo and we chatted with a guy from Russia and then also a guy from like like Indiana or something while we were in Denmark |
| Jack Forster | . It's pretty incredible that he could actually talk to the ISS with his setup uh I didn't even know that that was possible shortly |
| Cole Pennington | . It it is like so he explained it to me. I'm not a shortwave expert. I have so much to learn. But this inspired me to learn it. But it there has to be uh it things have to line up. It's a special occasion. It wasn't like you can't just call |
| Stephen Pulvirent | up the SS. Like it was a special thing. Yeah. Yeah. I uh I had a ham radio license back in the day in in high school. I don't think I've used uh uh short or long wave radio in you know a long time. But I know that you can like you can do things like you know with an antenna that size, you can like bounce signals off the moon and stuff. Like you can do wild stuff. And it sounds like Jan is is that level of cra |
| Cole Pennington | zy I mean he built himself an an entire bunker and giant antenna and things like that. So that that was so cool just to go from the Bang Oldson. So I was you know in work mode, like doing, you know, really you know taking notes this, and that, then immediately go to like this learn something entirely new where I don't have to worry about writing a story about it. I could just get into it. And it was just like it was very, very cool. Yeah. So that was that was that. And uh it was a great story and and really so that's the last time I traveled period and I kinda miss it. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | So well I am glad we could get you over there and make this story happen. It would have been uh would have been a bummer if this one had to pass because uh because of the travel restrictions but we made it we made it happen sometimes you get lucky. Yeah. Uh all right, I'm gonna plug I'm gonna plug the story I wrote for this issue um which did not involve any travel. It was done exclusively in the office. Uh, but I did get to see some pretty awesome watches and learn about a watch that for some reason had just never I had never gotten an opportunity to dive deep on it, and that's the uh the Tag Hoyer Carrera. So, you know, obviously, uh, you know, it's it's a big anniversary year for Tag this year, it's the hundred and sixtieth anniversary of of the brand. Um, so we decided to do something big on, you know, what is arguably the most important watch to ever come from from Tag or Hoyer, you know. Um and it was it was really fascinating diving into this and like, you know, reading, you know, reading parts of Jack Hoyer's uh autobiography and really kind of diving into like the essence of this watch uh because you know one of the challenges we always have with stories like reference points and and Jack, I know you've experienced this firsthand is you know there's often too much. Like you can't actually cover everything. So you have to figure out how to organize it. You have to figure out what to include and what not to include. And, you know, as as a person who like before I wrote this, I would I would not have said I was an expert on the Carrera. And so I don't want to be making arbitrary judgment calls about, you know, these Carreras are important and these aren't. So it means talking to experts, guys like Jeff Stein. It means talking to folks in the archive and the museum at Tag Hoyer. It means reading Jack Hoyer's uh autobiography and trying to get his perspective on what mattered. And ultimately I think I was able to with with lots of help from lots of people, collectors, enthusiasts, the folks at Tag Hoyer, uh and and some of my colleagues, you know, I think put together a pretty nice portrait of this watch that that is I think one of the most important watches of the twentieth century. I mean, I don't know what you guys think about that, but I I think the Carrera is one of the most important watches of the twentieth century. Okay. Yeah, I mean I |
| Jack Forster | would agree with that. It's uh it's uh a cultural icon, certainly a design icon. Um, you know, it's been a part of uh watchmaking history and played in such an important part uh in watchmaking history and in and watch design uh it's been a vehicle for so many uh you know different different and interesting versions. I I think that it definitely deserves that uh that particular accolade. I actually love the story. I mean uh learned a lot learned a lot reading it. Thank you the uh yeah the th well I think one of the amazing things about writing about watches is you know we're of necessity generalists uh you know we sort of have to know a bit about everything and you know we all have our uh you know thing that we'd like to focus on I'm you know fascinated by antiquarian horology and you know things that nobody else cares about like escapement design. Um but you know you uh you talk to somebody like Jeff Stein who really does have uh a bread in the bone granular knowledge of uh you know this subject matter. And uh you know you realize why people why people specialize, you know. Um you know you talk to somebody who who uh you know their their thing is tag hoyer uh you know and hoyer their thing is uh you know the carrera and they're just going to have uh observations, insights, and a level of knowledge that uh um I don't think I am ever gonna have about any one subject in horology just because uh you know I have to uh I have to look fairly broadly at everything in order to be able to write about everything. And uh you know what we all do is we um get our teeth into a story that we research it and then we go to people like Jeff in order to you know fill in the blanks. But it keeps it does keep it endlessly fascinating, doesn't it |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ? Yeah, it does. And you know, for me, one of the reasons I found this project so fascinating is like I am not an automotive enthusiast. I am not a racing enthusiast. Like I think I've watched maybe two or three F1 races in my entire life. You know, like I'm I'm not a car guy in that way. And the Carrera is so closely tied to automotive history that like I had to learn about cars in order to be able to write about this watch. And ultimately, I think I came out of this both appreciating the watch in a new way and appreciating like where it comes from, like the origins, the cultural origins of it in a new way. Um and one of the things I found really compelling, and this I don't think will surprise anybody who knows where my interests lie, is you know, that so many watches that are what we would call like icons, you know, things like the Samariner, the Daytona, the Nautilus, the Royal Oak. Like these watches are largely defined by a consistent visual language, right? Like a Daytona today looks largely the same as a Daytona from the 1970s. A Royal Oak today looks largely like an A-Series Royal Oak. Like they're pretty similar. Carreras today don't look like Carreras from the 60s. Like they just don't. Uh but it was interesting trying to find the threads and the through lines that that connect these things. And it's it's interesting that for for Jack Hoyer from the beginning the Carrera was not about any one It was about the ideas behind the design. It was about legibility. It was about clarity. It was about getting rid of things that aren't essential. It was about having a movement that felt good to use. It was about all of these these like less obvious things. And once you figure that out, you can start to see the ways in which like a 2447N, you know, an original Carrera uh and a Carrera Hoyero two from today, and even like some of the more exper experimental crazy stuff like the micrograph and the micro girder and whatever, like you can see how these things connect to one another. And I think that for me give gave me an additional appreciation for sort of like what the folks at Tag and then Tag Hoyer were doing to sort of make this a an enduring thing, a thing that would continue to matter going forward instead of just being a relic that we could kind of like look back on and say, like, oh, how beautiful was that. Yeah. Yeah. I like that take, Stevie. Thanks, man. Uh so yeah, I I think, you know the, the big takeaway for me from this story is and it's something I'm gonna try to do more personally, but I would encourage uh, you know, the folks listening to this to do too would be like find a watch that y that other people like that is is popular, is important, is historical, that you don't connect with and like go go deep on it. Like go take a look. And like I'd always liked the 244N Carreras. I must bought one a while back. Um and you know go deep on it and like figure out why you might like it. And ultimately you might not. Like ultimately you might not connect with it. But like I think that exercise is is good and it'll kind of like teach you about what you do and don't like from a more conceptual standpoint, instead of just saying like I like this watch, I don't like that watch, I like this watch, I don't like that watch, you'll start to say this is what I like about watches. This is what I don't like about watches. So I don't know. That's if if I have any advice to give that that is what I learned from writing this story, in addition to now actually knowing something about Carrera reference numbers, which I did not know anything about uh heading into this. But yeah. It was a fun experience. |
| Jack Forster | Well, not completely unrelated because it's still in the magazine. You know what uh was kind of a a moving story for me to read um just from a sort of oh my gosh, I wish the hell I could go there uh standpoint was uh uh Yusekaguchi's uh city guide to Tokyo. And uh you know I've been there a couple of times uh for work. And you know, we're always on you're you're on a such a tight schedule when you're there you're lucky if you have kind of like one night out to knock around. And um even though you know I've I've had a chance to go there a couple of times, Cole, I know you've been through there as well, and I didn't recognize a single one of the places that are his you know sort of uh favorites in Tokyo. And uh you know, it just made me say, uh, gosh, you know, um you take it for granted, but we were really lucky to be able to travel that much, and I want to go to every single one of those places when I finally get over there again. Whene |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ver the hell that is. I agree, Jack. Woof, do I agree. And for people who may not know, uh, Yusekiguchi is the editor-in-chief of Hodinki.jp of Hodinki Japan, uh, and is like maybe the most tasteful guy I know. Uh he's pretty pretty on point. So I'm with you, Jack. I'm I'm dying to get back to Tokyo and to to go check some of these places out. I'm moving to Tokyo. But uh You're moving to Tokyo? Alright. That's fine. Jack, Cole's gonna run the Tokyo Bureau. Is that fine with you? I think he's the man for the job. I mean we actually have a Tokyo Bureau, so that probably wouldn't work. There's already people running the Tokyo Bureau. But uh I wonder, Colt, did did you have a story similarly to Jack? Did you did you have a story that you didn't write that you want to like quickly recommend to people before we uh before we head up? I |
| Cole Pennington | think uh James's perpetual planet or the the deep dive into the perpetual planet program that Rolex uh put on. I think to me that's interesting A because there's it's actually helping change the world. Um but w you know, talking about watches is always about the watch, but this is a watch company doing something totally different. And uh you know, the Sylvia Earl connection, all that. So that th that to me is probably the story. It's I mean it's not really a story story like in the traditional sense. There's no narrative arc or whatever, but it's uh some insight into something super, super interesting. I think James did a great job at uh highlighting what Rolex is doing and the fact that Rolex is doing it I found very, very cool |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. Yeah, I'm actually I want to recommend it James's other story from this issue, uh, which is a story about super high-end perpetual calendars, um, and specifically sporty perpetual calendars. So uh James basically took a l a combined look at the uh Autumn RPG RD2, the watch that used to be called the RD two, um the Vacheron uh Overseas Perpetual Calendar Ultra Thin, and then the um paddock uh 5740 uh Nautilus perpetual calendar. Uh and to have these three watches in the same place at the same time was ridiculous, honestly. Um, you know, I think we all see a lot of great watches and get to handle them and they're in our office and our photo studio every day really. Um but this was the last shoot that I worked on uh before uh quarantine started and before we we worked from home actually. The office was actually officially closed when when uh Tiffany, our our photographer and I, uh worked on this together. And to have these three watches basically to ourselves in an office for a day was a real treat. And I think Tiffany's photos came out amazing. James's story is really awesome insight into the into like real rarefied horological air. And I think' if youre somebody at all interested in that kind of watchmaking, like this is this is a treat. Like this is just pure pleasure for for a couple pages. So I'd recommend people check that out. Um thank you guys for doing this. Uh it's good to to get some additional insights. I mean, despite the fact that I, you know, worked with both of you as you were putting these stories together, uh, I just learned some new things about these stories from you. Uh hopefully people listening did as well. And uh soon enough, I know I know Jack is already hard at work on a story for volume seven. Yep. Uh Cole, I think you're probably getting a story assignment next week. So I'm sweating. Soon enough we'll uh soon enough we'll be back on air making making another one of these about volume seven. Sweet. Well, I'm ready |
| Jack Forster | . Yep. Looking forward to it. Thanks for having us on the show, Steven. And uh I had a great, great time working on that car story. Um, you know, I mean I love watches, but uh boy oh boy. Um you know, riding around in that thing uh after about uh five seconds I was like the hell with watches, man. I want to be a car journal |
| Cole Pennington | ist. Yeah. Stevie you're you're into cars now. Jack's into cars now. We should just do a car podcast. Oh |
| Stephen Pulvirent | boy. All right. Now now I'm sweating Cole. All right. Uh I think I think with that we'll uh we'll leave people and uh thanks for doing this, guys. All right, thanks. And to finish things off today, I chat with our founder and CEO, Ben Clymer, about his profile of the artist Wes Lang. Good to see you, Ben. How's it going? You too, man. Great to see you. Happy happy uh one day after your birthday. Thanks, man. Appreciate that. Now everybody's gonna know how uh close to the wire we record these things, but uh that's uh exactly. Uh cool. Well we're uh we're doing a little debrief on the magazine this week, on volume six of the magazine, and one of the big centerpieces to the issue uh was a profile you wrote of the artist Wes Lang. Um and I wanted to get you on to to chat about what it was like meeting Wes and and being in his studio and seeing his watch collection. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Happy to help. Uh so I wonder like how did Wes first end up on your radar as a watch collector? I mean, I think we're both familiar with his art, but like how did you realize that he was in the watch world |
| Ben Clymer | ? Yeah, it it's one of those things. I mean, Wes Lang, as I mentioned in the story, I actually had one of Wes's prints in my home many years ago that belonged to somebody I was very close with. And it just never really, you know, I knew who he was, I knew his name. I knew about the easy stuff and you know the Grateful Dead stuff uh early on. And he was on my radar, but never really kind of, you know, really delved deep into who Wes was or or why he was as is kind of well known as as he is. And then one day um Zizan Sari uh texted me and he was like, hey, you know Wes Lang? I said yes. Uh he's like you've really got to meet this guy like you're gonna love him. And you know, it's everybody thinks that their friends are watch people, you know what I mean? And it's just like I I you know, and Aziz is is is you know dialed in enough to know that like okay we're at a different level of watch person when it comes to the hodinky game, you know? So, you know, I I took it seriously. And then one time I was in uh Los Angeles and I had a free afternoon and I got his phone number and I was like, Hey dude, like you know, I'm you know, Ben from Odinky here, like would love to swing by. He's like, Oh, for sure, come on by. Um and so I went down to his studio in downtown LA and I was just awestruck. I mean, it it really was one of the coolest spaces, you know. Forget the watches for a moment. The coolest spaces, the coolest vibes. He's got such an amazing, warm, interesting vibe. Uh that was just really struck me as like somebody who's got it kind of all figured out. And it's just like, you know, we get to meet so many fascinating, intelligent, successful people, believe in. But he had a different kind of aura around him that was like very, very like slow paced, very thoughtful, very his own. And that was really wonderful and enlightening. And then it came down to the watches. And you know, you know, Aziz had told me he's like a hardcore hodinky guy, hardcore watch guy. And I said, cool. And then I started speaking to him. And like, you know, that that's an understatement. I mean, Wes is one of the most serious, most interesting watch collectors I know in the United States. And it's different than I even said in the story. Like, I kind of assumed that because he's an artist in downtown LA, like there's kind of a uniform of of like you know, wealthy, successful young guys in in Wash, isn't that like vintage Daytona, vintage Samariner, maybe a royal oak, like you know, all the all the stuff that we all love, but like okay, like you know we've all seen it a thousand times. That's what I expected and it's not at all what I got. Well I should say I got that plus a thousand other things. You know, and that includes a real love for Grand Seiko and yes, he has Nietzsche, but also like you know, he's got a snowflake. Um, you know, he has uh an Acrivia, uh, he's got um a Kodoki. Kodoki. Uh you know, he's got some really fascinating re Yeah, he's got really interesting stuff. And I was just like, You are not the normal, you know, watch collector. The normal watch collector is buying Rolexes, maybe Omega's, you know, AP paddock, blah blah blah. Uh and he just he just, you know, marches to his own his own B. Um and so, you know, we just kind of became friends and you know it's one of those things where like you meet somebody that that's kind of like young and interesting that's into watches in a sincere way but is not part of the industry. And that that's the big difference. It's like you meet so many people that are like, oh, are kind of like gentlemen dealers or work for somebody uh or are just kind of like around um you know kind of around this world and then you find somebody that like just loves watches as a collector and like that's so much more enjoyable than you know kind of being somebody that like hey can I use so dunky to sell watches or whatever, you know? Um and so we just became really friendly. And then uh and then one day I was like, Hey man, like it would be awesome to do a story in the magazine and uh and then it kind of went on from there. And you know, I I think the story turned out pretty well. Um I'm happy with it and uh you know it's it's it's |
| Stephen Pulvirent | been a cool experience getting to know for sure. Yeah, no, I mean I I agree. I think the story came out great and I think it was the the way the story was put together was cool because it started obviously from this organic place of you guys be becoming friends and having these conversations informally. But then you got to go with uh a photographer, this guy Pete Halverson, who is a friend of the show and been on Hodinky Radio before, and you and Pete got to go to the studio for the afternoon to like see some work, see some watches. What what was it like getting to spend that afternoon kind of in in Wes's world? Yeah, I mean look, W |
| Ben Clymer | es remains one of my favorite people. Like he he's a kind he's a kind of person that like inspires me to be kind of like more true to myself, if that makes any sense, which I think we we you know could all use a little bit of. I mean, he's just like Wes does what he wants to do. And almost at at sometimes at other people's expense, you know, really, you know, just in terms of relationships, et cetera. But he's like, look, man, like I do this the way that I wanna do it, and like, you know, I don't have to listen to anybody else, and I I'm living my life for me. Uh and that is something that I, you know, again, that I wish I could, you know, kind of you know push forward for myself. Um and he's just this guy that like he's just different. You know, I know other artists just like you, I know the photographers, you know, just like you, but like this guy operates into his in his own kind of you know, kind of environment. And it's it's really encouraging and really like it's it's inspiring to be honest with you. You know, he just he does what he wants to do, the way that he wants to do it and creates art that like if people like it, great, thankfully they do, so he can you know for all these nice watches. Yeah, uh, but if they didn't, like I don't think he would really change. And like you know, if you look at some of the stuff that he did as a younger person when he had nothing, you know, um, it's exactly the same stuff. You know, like the the the the the media may have changed a little bit the you know the price certainly has changed a lot but like what he's creating hasn't changed at all. And the fact that he was able to make that work is amazing. And the the the other wonderful thing about it is that like he knows how lucky he is. And I don't mean lucky in the sense of like he's not talented, lucky in the sense that people appreciate what he's doing for exactly what it is and can afford to pay for it, you know? Yeah. Um and so, you know, getting to spend more time with him in person uh was wonderful. And then again, we've we've become you know really good friends since. Um but he's just a different guy. And he's just like you know you know as we said in the story like you know his appreciation for Grand Seiko, it's like it's a different kind of satisfaction, but it's satisfaction for himself and nobody else. You know, it's like it's it's a pride in craft and understanding as opposed to like, hey, I made it. But he's also he says some really, you know, kind of thoughtful things about like, you know, the whole idea of like stunting on people. And it's like, he's like yeah, like sometimes I'll put on a five thousand four or fiftyy nine sevent and be like, Yeah, I I I can afford this. I can do this and like that that is a part of this culture and you know, we all know that. Uh he's just a very earnest, you know, kind of earnest, sincere guy, uh in a very odd world, you know, like he he's a a well-known artist in downtown LA. You know, as he said in the story, like many of his friends have become watch collectors, or you know, the the the inverse of that, you know, many, many, uh, many people he he he has now considered friends or watch collectors. Um and just a fascinating guy that you know lives in a very interesting interesting world. I mean I don't know anybody |
| Stephen Pulvirent | else like him. I can say that. Yeah. Was was there anything that surprised you the most as you were putting this together? Like something that you just came totally out of left field, whether it was it was a watch or his sort of take on a situation? Yeah, I mean I think it's like it's it' |
| Ben Clymer | s not that surprising because I know we all have these people, but like it's surprising when it comes from somebody like West. And so like West is tattooed, fucking cool looking guy, you know, like has his has his shit figured out, like actual friends with Kanye West and Jay-Z and people like that. Uh and then, you know, he as I I I reported it in the story, but he's just like, you know, like a lot of his inspiration and the reason why he likes, you know, a certain kind of car or a certain kind of old Daytona is taken from one of his friend's fathers who is a stockbroker in suburban New Jersey in the eighties and he's just like this guy was my hero. Like I didn't know anything else. He was like he drove a jag bar and he had a bang and all and like was always well kind of stern. And like the fact that this person, and I'd love to get his name and you know, kind of reach out to that person, uh, the fact that this person played such an important role in kind of crafting who Wes is today, even as this guy who kind of lives in counterculture in like the the real art world. It's just fascinating to me. And it in many ways, you know, kind of like, you know, kind of um validated my own views on people like that from my own life. You know, I have people when I was very young and even today that like are have are really helped shape who was you know objectively successful um you know kind of has similar feelings about these childhood people and again we're not talking like you know Day-Z or celebrities or you know, you know, Don Maddingly maybe in my case. Um, you know, you were talking about like your friend's father. Um and I think that that was really like, again, it was validating because like that is who I you know, not specifically my friend's father for me, but like that's the kind of person that I look to to really inspire me and uh kind of who who crafted me into who I am, you know |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. I think that's really fascinating. And I think the way that he he plays with that both in his his art and it seems like in his life and then in his watch collecting is is like weirdly consistent. Like he he really, like you said, has this sort of consistency to everything. Like, you know, he got his first watch when he was a kid, he found it. It was like a story about him having something cool that like nobody else kinda got. Uh and then that that expanded and this this juxtaposition of like high culture, low culture, pop culture, you know, super kind of rarefied air and then more sort of like humble things or or like kind of rough around the edges things is is a really tough thing to do in a way that doesn't feel contrived, but he he somehow manages it |
| Ben Clymer | . Yeah, he he does. And I think I I mentioned it a little bit in the story. I wanted to go longer, but somebody wouldn't. I forget who that was. I wonder if you Exactly. No, I I think he I mentioned the story, but if you look at like th there are two kind of like you know categories of his heart. And some of them are very, you know, very morose and skeletons and and very kind of like native American grateful daddy type of thing. Uh which is as as you said, kind of like who who he was as a child. There was like a little bit of sadness and like you know, he was definitely different in in in school, like I'm sure many of us. Uh and these Izzy and like you know you'll see you know like a American pickup trucks in Robert Redford and like these beautiful like a Americana themed, you know, uh pieces that really feel pop like. Uh and like that's kind of who who he is now and that he's like he's become kind of at peace with who he is, uh at peace with the world around him. He's in a very loving relationship with you know with a woman and like he's just these are the two different versions of Wes and I think you know I I can certainly relate to that I'm sure many of us can but like the idea that he's able to express that so concisely into like okay like this version of my art represents who I was and then this version of my art represents who I am uh I thought was was pretty |
| Stephen Pulvirent | interesting. Yeah I I I totally agree. And and I think one of the funny things here that we we haven't mentioned that comes up in the story is the fact that you guys have have sort of a shared connection through where he's from, right? Through Chatham, Chatham, New Jersey. Ye |
| Ben Clymer | ah, yeah. Yeah. So he he was born and raised in Chatham, New Jersey. Uh I I was not, but my father was, my uncles were. I spent every Christmas there, uh every fourth of July. I mean it was you know outs I'm from Rochester, but you know, after Rochester I would say it was my second home. Uh and you know I know that town really well and it reminds me a lot of the town that I grew up in. It's just like a upper middle class, you know, town in suburban New Jersey. And it's just like, you know, knowing that town, the first time I found out about that, I was just like, how on earth did Westlang come from Chatham, New Jersey. And it's just like you just have to remember that like, you know, you know, kind of pain and like emotional distance can can exist anywhere, even in the kind of like the the toniest of of locations and kind of like the privilege more privileged locations. And to be clear, you know, his father was not a stockbroker. Like they owned a record shop, you know. Uh you know, they were they were more kind of middle of the road for Chatham or or really anywhere. Um but it's just amazing to see that somebody like that came out of a place that that I do so so intimately Ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. Well I mean I I know we're we're getting close to the end here, but I I I wanna I wonder what you think, you know, folks listening to this and folks who read the article, which they definitely should, you should go pick up a copy of volume six and and check the article out. We'll link that up in the show notes. But um you know, what what do you think people listening to this can can learn from Wes as as watch collectors or as people? Like what what do you think the takeaway here can be for folks |
| Ben Clymer | . And just that like he he is completely comfortable with the duality of of his his existence. You know, as I said, there's the the person that we were as a child, which, you know, in many cases be conflicted or maybe many cases could be super happy and positive. And then there's who you are now. And I think you know the version of my speaking of myself, the version of myself now is dramatically different than the version of who I was when I was a teenager or or an adolescent. And he really embraces that, whereas I think a lot of people, you know, kind of run away from their past. And I think that's a really interesting side of of how West kind of lives his life. And then as a watch collector, I mean I think it's just it you know it it validates that there are still interesting watch collectors out there below the age of fifty, you know, and I think that's something that I've I've kind of like railed against often on on this show. Is that like I'm just so look, you know, I I have a fifty seven eleven, I think it's great. I don't need to see any more fucking fifty seven elevens on anybody. I just don't care. You know, I'm not gonna sell mine, I'm gonna wear it and keep it forever, but like it's it doesn't it doesn't validate you as a watch collector to to wear fifty seven eleven or sixty six three or any of this stuff. It's like do your own thing. You know, like do something that is interesting. And it doesn't have to be a major brand. It could be an acryvia if you can afford it. It could be uh a Kadoki. It could be anything that just makes you interesting. But I mean I think West has a greater appreciation for the handmade small badge stuff because that's who he is. I mean, like that's that's effectively what he's doing. You know, he's a one-man artist. Until recently, as I say, he didn't even have a manager or a gallery, like he was doing this all on his own. Um and I I I would say I would really encourage people to follow his lead and say, yeah, like, you know, you want to embrace the Daytona and and the the whatever fifty nine seventy, like great. They they're they are as popular as they are for a reason and I will always love them. But don't forget what else is out there and you realize that there can be a separate kind of joy in owning something that nobody understands except for you or a very certain a certain kind of person. Um |
| Stephen Pulvirent | so I think those would be two takeaways for sure. That's great. I think that's I think that's a good thing to leave people with. That's uh that's awesome. And and like we said, uh we'll link it up, but people should definitely go read the article. I uh despite the fact that I would not let you run uh run any longer on WordCount, I uh I really enjoyed editing this and reading this. It was it was a super fun one to to be a part of putting together. But it's it's my pleasure, as always. Awesome. Thanks, Ben. Thanks for joining us and uh we'll catch up uh catch up later. Sounds good. See you guys. Thanks, man. This week's episode was recorded remotely by our group of editors and was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show. It really does make a difference for us. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. |