The Watches Of The Decade¶
Published on Mon, 20 Jan 2020 11:00:10 +0000
Ten years, ten watches, and a ton of opinions.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent leads fellow watch experts Cara Barrett, John Mayer, and James Stacey through a roundtable discussion of the most important watches of the 2010s. The episode examines ten watches that defined the decade—not necessarily the best or most popular, but those that will be remembered a hundred years from now as representative of this era in watchmaking.
The discussion covers a diverse range of timepieces, from the ultra-accessible Swatch System 51 at $150 to the record-breaking Patek Philippe Grandmaster Chime that sold for $31 million. Key selections include the Rolex ceramic Daytona (116500LN), Tudor Black Bay, Richard Mille RM 27-01, Bulgari Octofinissimo, and Apple Watch Series 3. Each watch sparked debate about what truly makes a "watch of the decade"—technical innovation versus cultural impact, vintage reissues versus forward-looking designs.
The episode also explores broader themes: the resurgence of independent watchmakers like MB&F, Tudor's successful market re-entry and establishment of the \(3,000-\)5,000 price segment, and the democratization of mechanical watchmaking. Notably, the group debates whether vintage-inspired pieces like the Omega Trilogy truly represent the decade or merely celebrate past achievements. The conversation concludes with speculation about which brands are positioned to dominate the 2020s, with Omega, Grand Seiko, and Oris emerging as favorites. Throughout, the panel's chemistry and genuine passion for horology shine, making complex watchmaking accessible and entertaining for enthusiasts at any level.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Unknown | Who haven't we talked about yet? Let's see who's who's keeping track. I know. Who haven't we talked about? Paddock. Paddock. Paddock. John now you gotta say paddock. Patek. Alright. I'm gonna pick a weird one. I'm going Grmasandter. Chime Uh card just laughs at me. I say Grandmaster Ch |
| Unknown | ime. Every time I hear that name I think Grandmaster Flash and I can't I can't it's I I only call that watch the Grandmaster Flash because it just is |
| Unknown | Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinky Radio. Although the calendar is turned over and it's 2020 now, we're not quite done looking back at the 20 teens. We thought it'd be nice to do a roundup of the most important watches of the decade. You can measure that in a lot of different ways, but we're looking at the watches that 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 100 years from now, people are gonna look back and think of as the watches that defined the 20 teens. These can be super high-end, they can be extremely accessible, they can be complicated, they can be simple. You're gonna see a real diversity of choices. I brought Kara, John, and James into the studio and presented to them my list of 10 watches and kind of let them critique it, tell me what I could have done differently, and then we discuss some alternative options. It's a fun look at what the last decade's been in watches and most of all at how amazing the watch community has been over the last 10 years. It's grown, it's diversified, we're seeing more interesting things now than ever. And I think you're really gonna enjoy this one. So without further ado, let's get into it This week's episode is presented by Leica Camera. Stay tuned later in the show to learn about the new M10 monochrome. For more, visit US.lykaCamera.com. |
| Unknown | Hey fam, what's going on? Not too much. How you doing? Not much. Ready for this pod. |
| Unknown | Yeah, same. Oh man. Alright, so James has been in a photo studio all day shooting by himself, and we dragged him out here uh to I guess we can call this civilization, maybe? Yeah. Um all right, so what we're here to do today, I brought all of you guys in here, mostly to sit here for the next hour and tell me how very, very wrong I am uh about everything. So I hope you're all up to uh to that channel. I'm ready. Yeah. Let's do it. You guys have been waiting for this. Um my whole life. Cool. Uh so one thing we we wanted to do is it's still early in twenty twenty, it's a new decade, but we didn't want to totally leave the teens behind. It was a pretty important decade for watches and watchmaking. And we wanted to do some sort of like retrospective look back at the watches of the decade. So Gray and I were chatting and we decided we wanted to do 10 watches for 10 years, so it's the ten watches of the previous decade. Um there are a million ways we could have judged this. We could have talked about the most popular watches, we could talk about the watches that sold the most, uh the watches that were kind of the most revolutionary. What we settled on was the 10 watches that defined the 2010s. So the watches here are not my favorite watches. They're not even what I would say are maybe the best watches of the last ten years. But to me they're the watches that like a hundred years from now, these will be ten watches that give us a good summary of what watches were like and what happened in the watch world over the last ten years. That makes sense to everybody? Yes.. Yep Yes. All right. So what we're gonna do here is I'm gonna go over my picks. Um and then you guys can jump in, tell me why you agree with me, why you disagree with me, what watches you would have picked instead to kind of serve the same purpose. And uh we'll just go through this and and hopefully paint a little bit of a portrait of of what the last 10 years in this this weird, wonderful uh little little hobby is. Sounds good to me. Alright. We're not gonna do this chronologically. I'm gonna just kind of pick a little bit randomly from my list here. Um let's start with I'm gonna start here. Let's start with with a big guy. Let's start with with an obvious one. Uh I'm gonna go with the Rolex Daytona, the 116500LN, which was released at Basel World twenty sixteen. This is the ceramic daytona. Yeah. The black and the white. Yeah, the black and the white. And the black. The black and the white and the black. The black on black and the well maybe white on black or black on white? Maybe black on white. Okay, cool. I'm glad we I'm glad we got that settled. Um Yeah, I mean this to me is is maybe the most no-brainer pick for this list. Uh it's kind of hard to imagine the watch world the last 10 years without this watch. I was kind of shocked when I was when I was looking this up that it came out back in 2016. There's still so much buzz around this watch. It's kind of mind-blowing uh that this watch at this point is like almost four years old. Yeah. They're still kind of impossible to get. People still freak out when they see somebody else wearing one. Um I think this might be the hottest watch of the decade if I had to boil it down to one. Uh and one of the reasons I think it's it's so hot is it's Rolex doing what they do best, right? Like it's technically it's probably the best, almost certainly the best Daytona ever made. It's pretty classic. It's gonna look pretty classic 50 years from now. Um and it kind of just gives people what they want. Like it doesn't overthink the formula. It's like black dial, white dial. It has a black ceramic bezel. It comes on a bracelet. The case is super thin. It's a great movement. Like it's a great watch. It's Rolex doing what Rolex does best. Any anybody agree, disagree? Yeah, I mean I I I might disagree. I might say that the the like the current um assortment of GMT Master 2s, the ones with um you know they all have a maxi case and the ones that have the new souped up movement uh with the longer power reserve and the cornergy escapement are uh maybe more significant. Yeah, and with the with the Daytona you still have that old style case. Um so I feel like it's still got a little bit of its like foot in the history of Rolex, whereas some of the steps that they made forward in the last decade or or more of the steps that they took forward in the in the last decade are represented in other sports models such as the GMT master |
| Unknown | types. Do you think there was more hype? I guess it's kind of hard, you kind of have to like define what like makes a watch of the decade. Like is it like technical advancements or is it cultural culturally significant? Like I guess it could be both but I guess for the you know just for the sake of argument like if is the GMT was there more hype around that than the Daytona like I don't I don't know. I don't think so. I mean I just started so I was like one year in so I I don't really know what it was like before that, before the Daytona came out. But for me, I think people still it is still like a folklore. And it was the first time that a steel watch I felt like |
| Unknown | really had a long waiting list. It's it's undoubtedly a huge watch. It's a huge steel watch. It's one of Rolex's most important models. And it is remarkable that like to John's point, I would say that the the GMT is a larger technical achievement. And it also was a rethinking of a watch that wasn't already insanely popular, the GMT. The Daytona, I mean, like this has been the decade of Daytona. The last three years have been arguably the hottest three years for the concept of the Daytona. It's history, it's modern, it's anything else, the precious metal ones with the uh oyster flex and and and everything else. There's a lot there's a lot there. So I think that some of the the hype of this is on a train that was already moving. Whereas I think they had to pick up steam, especially when they decided to make the uh two-color bezel, which is a huge technical achievement. It's really difficult to produce, especially it's remarkably difficult to produce red, which is why we uh people who are deep into this know that there's actually color changes over the last few years since they launched the original white gold, which was a much more purple and magenta in its coloring. And then when you see the most recent model, which has the Jubilee bracelet, it is much closer to an actual blue-red color. Um I think it's one of those things where it comes down to how you want to look at Watch of the Decade. Definitely you're gonna it's gonna be tough to say that any Watch of the Decade couldn't be a Daytona of some sort. It's just such a uh it's such it's been such a time for them and for Rolex in general. Um but I definitely think that it that b those are those two watches from them are definitely in the running. Yeah. One one of the things because I I definitely thought about whether this should be a daytona or a GMT and one of the things I I really kept thinking about was this watch came out after the fiftieth anniversary of the the Daytona. So for the the year before for the fiftieth anniversary of the Daytona, I guess it was two years before for the fiftieth anniversary of the Daytona. Um, they came out with the platinum one blue and brown. Yeah. And people lost it. Like people were so upset that the watch they got was not this watch, like the the steel Daytona with the ceramic bezel. I mean, I'll I'll tell my favorite story, which is like I was with Ben when we like watched the windows at Basel World and like at Basel World Rolex has this booth that has a sort of corner and there's one window where you always know that's where the top years sort of novelty is going to be displayed where the new the new watch hate the word novelty I'll try not to use that. Sryor guys. I think of like chattering teeth or something. Yeah, sorry. Sorry guys. That's my bad. Um Oh, it never bothered me before. Yeah, it's the worst. Oh. It's the worst. Sorry. Um but uh doesn't bother you? Novelty? Yeah, why would it bother me? I think of like novel like literal novelties, like uh but it is a literal novelty, isn't it? But I think of it isn't it just like French for new? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's just like a bad translation in English, yeah. Uh I like this segue. Yeah, sorry guys. Sorry.ry S foror the sidebar there. But I mean Ben and I were standing like watching, they have these green curtains over the windows, and at noon on the first press day, like the green curtains all go up mechanically at the same time, whatever. And I remember the window went up, and like you would have thought like someone in Ben's family had died. Like he was crestfallen over the fact that this was the watch that came out, and he was like ups like actively upset about it for days, you know? And like that's how so many like diehard Daytona enthusiasts felt. They were just so disappointed. And a lot of people have grown to really like that watch. I actually like that watch way more now than I did at the time, but I think that helped build some anticipation around this watch that like it's what everybody wanted and they didn't give it to us when we thought they were going to. I was I was probably like twenty feet to the right or left. Yeah. Sorry. Because I remember when that went up and we saw this and we're like, is that like blue? Is it oh that's brown. Huh. Oh wait, it's platinum. And you're like, oh well that must be like the zebra dial or a cheetah one. Like where's the other one? And everybody starts looking in the other windows. And and it's kind of like that thing where your parents would put the biggest put a pair of socks in the biggest box on Christmas. Right. Only like these are platinum socks and you're gonna have to wait till your birthday to get the thing you actually wanted, I suppose, right? Yeah. No that's exactly like and it and it's just it's that's so Rolex to be like not only are we above the idea that we're gonna put out anything on your schedule, like this is our game. We created it. Yeah. We're just gonna do whatever we want. And this time it's a kind of a weird Daytona, you know, f the first cr jump into a ceramic bezel on the Daytona and and like John said, these the Daytona still retains the old case, which I think makes it one of their strongest models agreed ergonomically and I think a lot of people buy that watch with no intention of ever using the chronograph. It just fits the best. Um and uh yeah I think uh that uh that pla I'm dealing with some platinum watches currently or a platinum watch currently for review and it every time I pick it up I think of that uh that Rolex, which I've only ever I saw once in the wild, weirdly enough. Maybe it was a fake, who knows? I do remember that it weighed something like two hundred and eighty two grams. Yeah. Uh it's uh it's a hefty one. Yeah, it's a chunk. Alright, so before we move on to the next watch, ultimately, if you guys were making a list, would this watch make your list? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I think it would. Alright, there we go. Unanimous. Right off the bat. Boom. Um Alright, so we talked about Rolex doing things on their own schedule and kind of like not caring what anybody else thinks. Uh I wanna go to a watch where actually I'm already cheating here. Uh it's a trio of watches because they were released together. That's kind of the opposite. Uh I think the Omega trilogy set from twenty seventeen um is a super important thing and I think it's important as much for what it says about Omega as for what the watches themselves represent. So for people who may not remember, in 2017, Omega released three watches. They released a Speedmaster, a Railmaster, and a Sea Master, um all of which were celebrating their anniversary years at the same time. So what they did was they took examples from their archives and they scanned them and X-rayed them and then produced essentially like part-for-part remakes of the originals from nineteen fifty seven um for the sixtieth anniversary. So you could buy each watch individually or you could buy a box set that included all three watches and they were specially numbered and marked trilogy and and this whole thing. Um and the case for these watches to me is is that this proved that Omega is dedicated to the collector community and the enthusiast community where so many brands are doing their own thing, they're kind of focused on what's next. Omega understands that that a huge part of what makes it special is its diehard collector base. And they've they've decided that they're they're going to cater to those people and it's I I don't think it's pandering. I don't think it's it's kind of uh kowtowing. I think it's really like they know who's important in the long run for them and and they're gonna make watches that that kinda celebrate that. Um I thought a lot about whether it should be something that's meta certified from Omega, uh whether maybe the dark side of the moon from twenty thirteen, which which was a watch that came to mind for me What do you guys think? Any anybody have anybody wouldn't give me more cases for including the trilogy on this list. I think it also represents like a kind of an apex mountain for the new vintage trend. Yeah. Like I think it continued, but I think that was a point where it was like peak. It's a peak. Like they did it really well. They would look back at their history. They remade something that was brand new, that had a warranty, that didn't require you to go and dig through an uh uh you know, a a PhD level of research before you'd feel comfortable spending X number of dollars on these three Watt to have the original kind of trilogy that defined their sport presence. Yeah. And it I think it's also interesting because of course the being fifty seven were predating their time in space, uh which has become true absolutely like that and James Bond is is omega to a lot of people who so they were making something for people who knew more about their history than the most casual entry points to the brand, the James Bond, the Olympics, and uh you know NASA and and the Moonwatch. Um and and I think they created three super desirable watches while they did that. And I think nailing all of those points makes it kind of uh uh definitely one of the the best performances in the new vintage trend, which I you know we've been on record saying it's a little tired, it's hard to do a really good job at it now. It's not impossible. It's just like everybody's tried. And in this case, I think that they they uh went back to obviously a playbook that already existed, but they executed really well. |
| Unknown | Yeah, I totally agree. I agree with everything you guys were saying, but Oh, here we go. I love those watches. I think they're great. I thought it was I agree. I think it was like peak new vintage really marked that spot. However, is it really a watch of the decade if it's carbon copy of the original? Because those watches that therefore technically would have shaped the previous decades, not this one. Car coming in hot. That's all I'm saying. I am that's all I'm saying. I I buy that. Like I I'll I'll'll hear that argument. But then you can also you can't say that the three two one is necessarily one the watch of the decade either because that too is an old movement. So it's kind of tricky. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't have a substitute, but I'm just saying that's just kind of my food for thought. Time is a flat circle. Yeah. I mean James has James has always has a perfect rebuttal. There we go. I stand I am quiet now. I think they're great |
| Unknown | looking watches, but I uh but I do have to kind of um I feel I think it's worth pointing out that when you when you scan a watch, like you don't need a di a designer anymore. You're effectively doing something that's already been done. Yeah. And if it's what people want, and if you're doing other creative things alongside them, which Omega certainly is doing, um things that are uh you know also targeted toward the collector base that isn't uh you know a carbon copy of something they've already done and other things that are, you know, more commercial, but still interesting and uh that will sell, you know, tons of examples. Um that's totally fine. But I think in the case of these three watches it's you know just worth bearing in mind that uh they didn't need a designer. This is something that uh had already been done. I think that's a fair point on Cara and John. Uh that that maybe this isn't the most legitimate choice for a decade considering it didn't kind kinda didn't come out of this decade. Beautiful watches. I'll I'll agree. I'll I'll I'll take that. I still think And we did have the Dark Side of the Moon and the Planet Ocean launch in that decade. Yeah, we did. We had the planet. I I mean for me, the runner up here is is the dark side of the moon. I would agree with that. Ceramic Speedmaster, it you know, brings kind of a whole new aesthetic sensibility to Omega, which then kind of rolls out across some of the other lines with these ceramic watches with ceramic dials. Um also the meta certification is like a big deal. Yeah, there's a huge thing. Agreed. So I mean Omega had a big decade. Well, 9000 series movement was was a big definitely a big move for them. Yeah. And even just the proliferation and steady kind of work on the coaxial escapement. True. Yeah, just the fact that they're not going to be able to predate, but still has they've taken it to such a high degree now. You know, you we remember early speedies or early seamaster Planet oceans, you were you would actually know the generational reference of the 2500 movements of a 2500 A or a B or a C. And then when you were buying or selling those online, you would know what you were looking for because they were kind of wabi-sabi. They were kind of in developed like they were really great movements and people still love them, but they were essentially coaxial abilities strapped into an ETA, an expression of an Edda movement, and then they went buckwild when they moved into uh the gener you know, the kind of generation they're in now. Super technologically advanced. All right. So in summary, does the Otr Omega trilogy set make your list? Nay. I don't think so. No. All right. I'm gonna dig in here. I'm gonna say yes. I'm I'm I'm sticking with it here. Uh all right. Up next, the Richard Meal RM 2701 Turbillon Raphael Nadal from 2013. That thing is sick. That thing is so so cool. It weighs less than a piece of paper. I'm gonna go for it here. That watch is so fucking cool. Oh my god. You just dropped a lot of it. I did. I'm going for it. It's guys, like the first time I ever saw one of these in the metal was at Christie's. I went to an auction preview with Ben. It was probably twenty fourteen. And there was one for sale. And Ben like called me over. We were looking at different stuff in different cases, and he called me over and he was like, Put out your hand. And I was like, Okay. And I put my hand out. And he put the watch in my hand and I laughed. Like my my immediate just like visceral response was to laugh at this thing. It is crazy that an object with like this much volume can weigh that little. Like your brain can't kind of process it. It's almost like a like an optical illusion of some kind or like a multi-sensory illusion. Um the watch weigh is just under 19 grams, which is silly. Like almost half of that is the strap. And to me, it's it's quintessential RM. It's ultra-light, it's a turbine, it has that tonneau shape, it has a big celebrity attached to it. It's kind of in your face. Like this past decade of watches, like you I don't think you can talk about this decade without talking about RM. I agree with that. And to me, like this is the RM. Uh it's also personally speaking, it is so far outside my usual taste and I love it so much. It like it kind of makes me question all of my own tastes, which I think a good piece of design and a good product kind of does. Like it it forces you to question why you like it or don't like it. And this is a watch that makes me question like everything. |
| Unknown | Also he wears it. Yeah, that's yeah, that's which is like the best part. He wears it when he plays. He's always wearing it. And like I think it's their most icon |
| Unknown | ic watch, right? Or their best known watch. And then it's also it's and Nadal is like their best known spokesperson or ambassador. And they they revolutionized the uh what uh what a watch uh ambassadorship could be, right, by having, you know, the the top athletes in their respective fields wearing these watches as they played. And it started with Nadal I mean I guess it started in in Formula One cars. But it's but but Nadal is the one who really broug |
| Unknown | ht it into the next kind of phase, I think, for them. This is like the perfect hybrid of techno technologic being technologically advanced and a cult, like a cult icon as well. This is like the high this is like where they intersect for the decades. It's also the inverse of the of |
| Unknown | that Omega trio. Like your criticism of the trio is, you know, that it wasn't new. It didn't really like they look back at something that was great and they made it again and cool because there's not it's not like you can't remake uh sixties Ferrari now and p you crash it and everybody dies. But that's not funny. There's no airbags and there's no you know like, all all of the rules have changed, but none of those rules apply to watches and that can go in two different directions. You can make a watch that's fifty years old, or you can make a watch like a re shard mill that's like now. Of the or of the future, talk about the brand of this decade. Yeah. Um definitely a a a contender. Yeah. I would totally, totally agree. Here, here. So ultimately, if you're making your list, R M twenty seven oh one? Yeah, I mean I think the list has to have a Richard Mill and um I can't think of a better one than this. Without question. Same. All right, there we go. Boom. Whew. I'm I'm two f two for three here. Uh let's go let's go to another crowd pleaser here. Uh I'm gonna go with the Tudor Black Bay reference 7922R. That is the original Black Bay from pre-Basel 2012. It was released before the show. Um I mean this is the watch. If we if we're talking about brands that had big decades, Tudor had a huge decade. They re-entered a number of key markets, including the US, the UK, and Japan, like three of the biggest watch markets in the world. Um and this was the watch that that really kicked all of this off. So we talked about it a little bit with Omega with this, you know, vintage reissue and kind of vintage throwback trend, but while the black bay wasn't the first vintage throwback watch I think it was the first one as f as far as I can remember. It's the first one that made a real impact. There were other brands doing it. Um you know actually Bell and Ross is a brand that did it pretty early on, but nothing caught on quite like the Black Bay did. Um and this then became the foundation for Tudor's resurgence across the globe. Like Tudor today doesn't exist without the Black Bay in the same way. You know, we've seen literally dozens of variants on the Black Bay, some with dive bezels, some without, some in two-tones, some in in steel. You know, arguably the Black Bay was then the foundation for for the Pelagos uh in in certain ways. I mean this this watch, I have a hard time imagining sport watches over the last ten years without, or I guess eight years, uh without the Black Bay. I think you're right, Stevie. Occasionally I get it. I don't know I don't have a rebuttal. I don't have a rebuttal. Did I miss anything? Like are there are there any other reasons why the Black Bay should be on this list. I l I like that we got back to Tudor being both its own thing while existing as the kind of like sibling to Rolex. Because for an enthusiast you, there is that weird gulf between the upper price point of like an entry level sacro, let's call it six or seven hundred dollars, and then what you buy when you're ready next, and like Rolex is hard to buy, very hard to buy, and 10 grand. Let's just call it 10 grand for fun. Maybe it's six, but it's probably like you probably want to sub, which is 8800 or 90, 100, whatever the new money is for 2020. And now you can get like you know exactly what you're buying when you buy something from Tutor. It's going to be like perfect. It's going to work really well. Now they have a 39mm version. Now they have a GMT. Uh you know, there's a the that black bay line has spawned what let's call it I should have looked at our buyer's guide but 12 iterations probably plus a couple complications all for class leading in terms of price. Which I think for them is a remarkable thing to manage. And take all of that and then add in what you mentioned about breaking back into new markets. That's the kind of thing that kills car brands. Just talk to Alpha Romeo. They tried it, it failed, they left, they tried it again. It's not going that well. It's just it's not that easy to do. And let's not forget, they also have a very big brand as their quote unquote older sibling, Ferrari, Fiat. Like these are brands that should be able to weather and bring anything in so that like it it it's easy to say like they came back and they did well because they had good product, but it's uh genuinely not that easy. Yeah, you have to have people buy it and you have to make something that's both good and desirable. And sometimes those two things don't overlap. Totally. Yeah. I really I remember feeling when that watch came out at the time that it was almost cooler to get that black bay than than to get the sub. Yeah, no no I think a lot of people felt that way. There was a real um there was just such interest, you know? And um maybe some of that had to do with the fact that it also kind of coincided with the rise of um you know popular editorial about watches on the internet. Um and so like younger people were getting more into watches and naturally they were gravitating toward that price segment. Yeah. Um but um The price segment. The price segment's a really interesting thing. I mean James and and John, you both brought it up. Like Tudor created a new type of competition in that price segment that's sort of like what what in the industry is called like the three to five, right? It's like three thousand to five thousand dollar watches. And it pre it it we get into m pre me being in the industry, so my my sort of perspective is a little warped. Like I can only know what I know from talking to people. I wasn't around. But my sense is like in the the early two thousands and even heading into the early teens, like that wasn't a price segment people were focused on. Like you were either buying a Seiko uh for a couple hundred bucks max, or you were buying a Rolex or higher, right? Like you were buying like a luxury luxury watch, or you were buying a sort of like enthusiast entry level watch. I mean I mean it's it's a price point that previously we would have seen Omega operating fairly strongly at, but right at the top end of it with the Zmaster. And then below that, Oris, but I think we'll get to Oris at some point in this chat. Oris hadn't gotten to the speed they're at now. No, they hadn't been around that was operating at a much different pace correct than versus now. And I would say with a much lower level of just general blanket desirability. They were making a great watch, but I didn't come into this ,10 12 years ago constantly talking about Ourus. And now if you want to talk about this price point, it's that Seiko space, then you hit into like Ourus and Doxa, and then you're into Tutor. And then you know it there's this nice kind of progression. Yeah. But I think the Black Bay kind of lit a fire under a lot of brands to compete in that space, right? Like brands like Omega, brands like Tag Hoyer, right, who who are now brands like Oris, who are kind of competing more now at the top of their price segment, every everybody now who operates anywhere near that price segment has to have a kick-ass sport watch that's between three and four thousand bucks. That's really high quality. Yeah. That's the thing, is like |
| Unknown | Tutor hits this price point that's I won't say it's accessible, but it's a you know, at the two, three range. But it's it's a five to seven thousand dollar range quality in my opinion, if not higher |
| Unknown | . So I know this is we're getting it slightly off topic, but it's with the with the new in-house movements in in the Black Bay. Yeah, because this had an ETA movement when it launched. This is totally anecdotal, so take it uh however you want to take it as a grain of salt or whatever, but I was recently um whenever I test drive a new watch or just have a chance to wear a new watch, I'll always set it to the second to the Hodinky app and just see how it performs over the four over the course of like three or four days. And I recently did this with a Black Bay 58, and it was like I'm being totally honest, it was within like a second or two variation over the course of uh four or five days. Which is crazy. You know, I mean it's just like when you and when you consider what a good value that watch is, it's like how do they do it, really? Yeah. Alright, so I think I probably know the answer to this question, but Kara, put Black Bay on your list? Yes. It is. James? Yep. John? Definitely. Boom. There we go. Three for four. Um yes, I'm keeping score. Um all right, next up we're gonna go we're gonna jump ahead a couple years to twenty seventeen. And I'm gonna go with the Bulgari Octofinissimo Automatic. Oh yeah. This is a good one. We uh we have one floating around the office somewhere and everybody's been playing with it for the last two, three days. Um so I think I I think I know your answers to this already, but my reason for putting this watch on this list is with all the sort of like chatter and energy and excitement and money being put behind integrated steel bracelet sport watches. I don't know if I put those words in the right order or not, but like the APs, you know, Royal Oaks, the Nautiluses of the World. Um Bulgari created a watch that kind of fits in that category, but in a totally different way. I really I can think of only a handful of watches I can say this about, but like the Octofenissimo is a new design language. It has a new sort of architecture to the case, the way the bracelet fits on the wrist and fits in with the case is really interesting. Having such a thin, flat movement in a thin, flat, sort of like steep-sided case is really interesting. Like I I actually think the Octofenesimo is a is a new archetype of of watch. Um the first Octofinesimo was the turbine, which came out in 2014. It was on a strap. Um for me, this watch needs the bracelet to really like come into its own, and that was introduced with the automatic in uh 2017, which was titanium and also was pretty accessibly priced. Like this watch was under $15,000, I believe, uh, on the bracelet, which when you look at what it's competing with is like somewhere between a third and half less. Um so I I think this is this is something that continues to grow. I think Bulgaria is far from done uh with this platform, but I think if we're looking at something that is like truly a brand new out of nowhere design uh from the last ten years, this this might take the cake for me. I wanna disagree with you, but I don't You wanna disagree with me? Yeah. All right. You're allowed. What do you think, John? Oh, I I definitely agree with you. And I I think it was like twenty twenty ten or maybe twenty eleven when Bulgary took the Daniel Roth and Gerald Genta brands. Yeah. And folded them into their into the the unified mark and everything from that point on was bulgary. But they continued with watches that still felt very much like they came from the era of Daniel Roth and then and others that came uh very much uh seemed like they came from the era of Gerald Genta, right? Of that brand, not the person, but the brand. Um with with Octo specifically. I think when you see um the Octofenissimo come in, that's really bulgary, uh putting their own stamp on it and saying that this is now our our our brand, our design, and this is a bulgari watch. This is not a a Gerald Gento watch. Um so that's just I mean that's just some kind of at this point maybe slightly obscure watch history, but it's uh it's another reason why I think it's uh a very important watch. Yeah. I mean James, the the bulgory in question that's been floating around the office is is in the office for a story you're working on. What are what are your thoughts on this watch? Yeah, but I I don't really have anything to add to this conversation. I think that it definitely deserves um a position at least in the running for um you know, most important watch the of decade because it moved the you know, I'll all I'm very much a huge sports fan you guys know, so and football is a game of yardage, you gotta move the chain and and of course I just expect is really just stepped up with something that other people weren't making. Yeah, I none of that's tru |
| Unknown | e though. Did you just enter a strong state? Like what what happened? That went right over my head. But if you're s if you're saying that this is pushing design for the thing, I'm saying I |
| Unknown | 'm saying that you look at you look at Bulgary in the past, they would have been I think operating from more of a defensive position, like uh I don't necessarily want to point fingers, but look at the way that like L V runs their watches. Right. I think that's more reactive and defensive than it is necessarily. Being progressive and putting yourself. Pushing the game further, showing like every time that there is a chance to launch a new watch next to your peers, launching something thinner. Yeah. Better. More expensive. More intricate. Yeah. More difficult to make. More desirable. Whatever it is, those those sorts of superlatives I think is what has made the last decade so huge for that |
| Unknown | brand. Yeah. It's also just so different from everything else. It's kinda like sometimes you look at watches and you're like, Oh my god, like they're all almost exactly the same. And then if you look at Bald Green, you're like, Oh, that's different. Yeah. |
| Unknown | And you're like, and that's interesting. Different and subtle at the same time, which is special. Because sometimes to be different, it has to be super bright or like huge or difficult to wear or problematic as a product. But they like nail all those things and they make something that like you put on your wrist and you're like this doesn't wear like any other watch in the world. Yeah. Yeah. It kind of wears like a weird bracelet like cuff. Yeah it's like a cuff. But it's so flat. And you pointed this out. It's so flat and so thin that it can't move. Right. There's because there's so little, there's the delta between the width of the lugs and most of the bracelet is very narrow, so there's just not any wobble ability. And because of course it sits on its lugs, not on the case back, because it's so thin, they just don't they don't go anywhere on your wrist. You forget they're there. And uh I I think they've what they've done is they've made a uh like a very desirable luxury product that isn't like all of their competitors' products. Agreed. Totally agree. Moving the chain. Moving the chain. Offense. Defense to offense. Bulgary, offense, defense, moving the chain. 2020. Alright, so John, this going on your list? Oh 100%. James? Yep. Kara? Yes. Man, I'm loving this. This week's episode is presented by Leica Camera and the brand new M10 Monochrome. Leica shocked the photography world when they released the original Leica Monochrome in 2015. A digital camera that shot exclusively in black and white certainly got people talking. Since then, the monochrome has set a new benchmark for what digital black and white photography can be, creating a dedicated community of enthusiasts along the way. But now, Leica's taking this concept to a whole new level with the release of the M10 Monochrome. Based on the M10P, the M10 monochrome is slimmer, quieter, and features tons of additional features, including Wi-Fi for sharing images directly from the camera to your mobile device of choice. The analog ISO dial has settings from 160 to 12,500, though you can crank it all the way up to ISO 100,000 for shooting in any conditions. This is a completely up-to-date take on the monochrome from top to bottom. Importantly, this includes a totally new 40 megapixel black and white sensor that can achieve unparalleled resolution, contrast, and dynamic range. You get a fine-grained rendition of your subjects, giving the results a more analog feel. Trust me, the images you get out of this camera looked nothing like those you'd get from a typical camera set to a black and white mode. When it comes to the body of the camera, Leica wanted the monochrome vibe to carry all the way through. The usual red highlights on the knobs and dials have been desaturated to a cool gray tone, and the Leica red dot has been removed from the front altogether in the style of the MP cameras. The Leica M10 monochrome branding on the top plate is engraved and filled with black paint for that black-on-black look. To call this camera sleek would be an understat For more on the new M10 Monochrome and like us other cameras and lenses, visit US.likeacamera.com. Alright, let's get back to the show. Alright. Uh I'm gonna shake shit up here. Uh this is where people start to get mad at me. Uh please at me in the comments on the site about this one, because I know you're going to. 2017, same year as the Bulgarie, the Apple Watch series three. It's the first Apple Watch with Cellular. Uh I really struggled with which Apple Watch to pick here, but that to me is game changer. Like that to me, is when it becomes a real viable option. Um I've been covering the Apple Watch going back to 2014, September 2014, when they announced it in uh in Cupertino. Uh Ben was there. Um we had many, many long conversations about this thing and like what it meant for watches. And I think now in hindsight, you know, guess what, like five and a half years later after that, um I think it's pretty hard to deny this this changed the game. I mean more I struggle to think of in fact I don't even struggle to think of I am pretty willing to say as a fact that there is no watch that has been talked about more over the last five and change years than the Apple Watch. Um as far as like mainstream press and mainstream interest goes, there's nothing like this. Um it has gotten more people thinking about and talking about watches and what they can and should be than anything to come out of the traditional watch industry. Um and I think that's a good thing. Uh I think it's a good thing. I think it's an interesting thing. Um and I think again, having reviewed basically every generation of this watch. Once the series three came out and then continuing up to now, this feels like a mature product. This feels like Apple knows what they're doing. It feels like they have goals. It feels like they have a target somewhere down the road that they're aiming at. And uh I don't see this going away any anytime |
| Unknown | soon. I agree. For me the game changer with the Apple Watch though is the light up screen staying lit on series five staying lit up the whole time. 'Cause a real watch then. I mean speaking as some |
| Unknown | one who uh hugely admire admires Apple for what they do, uh with I would say like the vast majority of their products, I've never really been able to get into an Apple Watch so I can although I've tried to wear them, it's never been something that's stuck for me. So I can say just kind of as someone who doesn't have a ton of experience with the product, um I think I I would say probably the first one, right? Because that's that is like it's the original Apple Watch. It's Apple entering um the category and really shaking things up and making their presence felt. And for that reason I would say it's the most significant Apple Watch. And definitely and there's for sure an Apple Watch deserves to be on this list. I would say probably just the first one though. James, where are you at? Yeah, I mean I don't uh I don't even use an iPhone if they want to adopt a normal charging cable, we can we can have that discussion down the road. USB C would be lovely I if if we're looking for something really out of left field. Uh but I don't even use an iPhone and I would say that this is likely the watch of the decade. Apple Watch. I d I don't really care what series like if the if the series three was the one where it became more of a its own product rather than a screen mirroring another product than super if it's five when it becomes um a product with its own screen like a watch uh then super um but i think like if if we're just talking about like if it's not about watches I like or my sense of taste or any of that stuff then just watches that like did something this decade that's the something it was smart watches. It brought a lot of other people into the fold. I mean, you guys remember when that watch the original one launched and there was these endless kind of six, eight months parade of articles about how this was the next court crisis and it was gonna really eat uh drink the the the swiss watch uh switch industry's milkshake and and and obviously that didn't happen uh in many ways I think that what it did was you know reheated some of the coals and and brought a lot of people back to the table about what was possible at the sub thousand dollar price point and unless you're fossil. And then it dumped your milkshake on the sidewalk. Yeah, but they're okay. I mean fossils. Fossil's a pretty big thing. I mean I would say like it it it's it's a harder game if you're Google with Wear OS. It's a harder game if you're Sunto who just launched their smartwatch like weeks ago. Yeah. You might be a little late to that game, Garmin's really cleaning up, but you know, it's a a vastly different product, right? And then every brand kind of has their own perspective on what a smartwatch should be. It's really clear that Apple's been the most successful with what it is, which they've nailed a price point that other brands have been scared of. Um, you know, a price point that Seiko or Citizen otherwise would have been the go to and and you know, even G Shock, Cassio has been super slow to start adding in quote unquote smartwatch functionality and th they even some of it's really half baked or not even half baked but like half measure in that it's you can use Bluetooth to change the time zone on the watch. Yeah it's it's not actual connectivity. It's not it's not these things that people would be looking for. And I think if you you now look back and say like, oh, so they came to the market with like a pretty developed concept of what they wanted to make. And sure, maybe it took a few years to get to ones with their own data or or ones with their own uh screen that stays on all the time. But I think that they started with a fairly they were most of the way there. Yeah. All right. Cara, is that on your list? Yes. James? Sure. John? Yeah, I'd say so. There we go. Uh we'll go the total opposite direction for this. Uh I struggled with which watch to pick to represent this idea. So I want all of your opinions on on what watch you think represents this idea? The watch I picked was the MBNF Legacy Machine 1 from 2011. It's a high-end, independent, time-only watch. Um, this one happens to have two time zones, but it's not like we're not talking chronographs, we're not talking calendar watches here. This this is a high-end watch uh from an independent brand that has a sort of bent toward traditional watchmaking. I think MB and F brings something new to the table too. But for them this was a real turn toward toward being inspired by old school like nineteenth century watchmaking. Um and that's something that that I've noticed as a real force kind of uh emerging over the last couple of years and going back, I think, to to around 2011, is the rise of the independence and specifically the rise of independence making these sort of like simple but really exceptional watches, you know, whether that's Reg Rjeppy and Ed A Crivia making the Chronomet Contemporane, whether it's somebody like Roman Gautier making the logical one, whether it's what Gruble Forzi is doing, like Gronfelds. Yeah. Gronfelds, yeah. I mean it's it's really there's all these people, Kari, who are making really high-end timepieces that are like deceptively complex, and they're doing it by taking these old handcrafts and these old school ways of thinking about watchmaking and making them relevant again. Um, and I I think we're gonna see a lot more of that in the coming decade, but I think really the kind of foundation was laid last decade. So I picked LM1. Um I have a soft spot for that watch. Um it kind of predates my being in the watch industry, quote unquote. Uh but I was aware of it at the time and aware of MBNF and and I remember seeing it and just kind of it blew my mind. Um what what do you guys think about that? What what do you think about this category and what do you think about picking a watch to represent this category? |
| Unknown | I would agree with your choice. I think in watches it's easy to kind of say, Oh, we made the most complicated watch, therefore we are the best. And so kind of going back to brass tacks and making a incredibly high end, expensive, unusual, time-only watch was kind of turning things on their head. And I think the MB the you know the LM1 is really significant of that. I mean it's a weird thing. It's not normal. A very weird thing. It's beautiful and it's interesting. And you know, he Max came from Harry Winston and he was making all those crazy watches that they had opus and uh and then like and and then he kind of started from ground one on his on his own and made this really beautiful time only thing. |
| Unknown | So Yeah, I I I would tend to agree as well. I think Max, as Kara said, came from uh Harry Winston, where he kind of invented uh make you know the platform for the independent watchmaker to give them a to put them on a on a on a higher stage. Um and then he took that concept and really evolved it in the decade that ended up being, as Steven said, the decade of the uh of the independent watch. So for those reasons I would agree. One thing I would add though is that when I talk to friends who are like not into watches at all, like repeatedly, the independent brand that they know is resence for whatever reason. Really? Yeah, that's the one that I've I mean super interesting. It's happened like a few times. So people who I would not expect to know any independent watch brands, that's the name that I've heard. And so a again, this is just like John anecdotal thing. I would I would say maybe we could consider uh an early example from resence. I don't know exactly what's like a type one or a type three? Yeah, something like that. Alright. I'll I'll take that. James, what are you thinking? Yeah, I mean uh it's funny, uh it's one of those things where I guess if this was twenty eleven for Lega Machine Legacy Machine One, yeah, then Opus predated all of that. So that's that's out of this decade. Because I would say that's really like that was the the boiling point for a lot of this, and obviously Max moved on. So I think that we definitely need uh uh I think we definitely need uh a great independent watch on here. Whether I would lean more towards this, which is of course being a legacy machine, it's it's about looking back, uh applying the MB and F formula, but looking back at at watchmaking, versus the horror logical machines, which are more forward looking and more avant-garde. I I'm of two minds where like I want one that is one of Max's creations, I I definitely, because I think that's that's about right. Um or something like a group of fourzy sig1 um or or the cribia, certainly it yeah, there's so much here to unpack. I I think that independents deserve a watch. Yeah. For this list, what watch it is is kind of tough because uh I mean there's some horological machines that I think definitely make a make a place the Thunderbolt uh I th I thought was an a a pretty wild thing to see in person to experience in person, but I suppose maybe in terms of general impact, yeah, legacy machines as good a choice as any. Sweet. All right, so for your lists, Cara. I'm s I'm sticking with that one. James, you going with an HM or an LM? I I think I'd I'd stick with the with the LM one. If it was twenty eleven I think it set a pace. Alright. And John? Yeah, I would I would agree. I think just because of the timing with the with the LM I would say I would go with the LM but I think in terms of you know the s the the the foundation of MBNF it is a brand, probably probably HM. Nice. Sweet. All right. We got three more. We got three. We're in the home stretch here. I'm gonna go to twenty fourteen now. And I'm going with the swatch system fifty one. Um I remember when the swatch came out, it was a very weird situation. Uh it was at Basel World. And so the main the main hall of Basel World is actually around this sort of circular courtyard. And so there's Hall One, which is where all the big brands used to, I guess, exhibit now, still all the big brands that are at Basel World, but at that point it was everybody. And then across from that was another hall that didn't really have anything in it. Like there wasn't um there weren't brandsing exhibit but swatch used it as kind of this like weird like museum art installation space and it was kind of a like a oh if you have time to kill like go over to the Swatch exhibit like they have all these crazy old swatches and like a bunch of big art pieces and sculptures and whatever. So like between appointments people would go over and then you start to hear murmurs through Basel World twenty fourteen of people being like, Did you guys see the new swatch? Did you see the mechanical swatch? Swatch did something mechanical and everybody was freaking out about it. And uh but it was like it was people were freaking out about it, but also like nobody knew quite what it was. Like everybody was kind of murmuring about it because they just had in a vitrine in the middle of this giant room that had all kinds of like wild, crazy, multicolored shit going on everywhere. They just had this watch in a vitrine with like a tiny plaque next to it explaining very briefly in English what it was. Um and so I went over there and I was able to get in touch with with uh this woman who ran PR for the whole swatch group US at the time. Um and I was like, Can can I meet you over there and can you like explain this thing to me? Like I have no idea no idea. I just like went like dumb reporter hat on and just was like, tell me about this thing I don't know anything about. Uh and it turned out it was the system fifty one. Um and we were able to, they weren't able to pull one out of the vitrine, but we were able to get one off of Mr. Hayek's wrist, uh, which was pretty cool. Uh and at the time we had the only hands-on photos of this watch for like a long time. Um it was a pretty cool thing to be able to be there at this moment for something that has gone on not only to matter in the the broader watch culture, but be a kind of big part of Hodinki's story now since since we've been doing these collaborations with Swatch. Um but the reason, all that aside, personal anecdotes, blah blah blah, mattering to Hodinky, all of that set, it aside. Uh to me, the reason this watch belongs on the list is it signifies Swatch's belief in mechanical watches and the future of mechanical watches. This is for a lot of people, it's it's a gateway, it's a way into loving mechanical watches. It's you know affordably priced, like actually affordably priced, not a couple thousand dollars, it's a hundred and fifty bucks. Uh you can get them in basically every major city across the globe. You can get them in airports. Uh they're fun. They're colorful. I know a ton of people who wear them. I give them to people as gifts pretty frequently. Um and to me this is this is a statement. I mean this was a probably tens of millions of dollars investment from Swatch to develop this and tool up for it and they have a whole factory that does nothing but make these these watches by robot essentially. And I think that's a pretty serious kind of like shot across the bow from them saying like we believe in the future of mechanical watchmaking and we think that there is there is a value in an inexpensive fun mechanical watch uh to help people get into this hobby. So what do you I I don't know. What what do you guys think after I rambled for the last couple minutes? Uh yeah, I mean I I agree with basically everything that Steven said. Um I can't disagree with anything. I would just add my own anecdote that I remember. I think it was like uh right after SIHH. I've never been so excited after an SIH as uh SIH twenty fifteen when I went to the Geneva Airport and was able to get a ride one. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, I like took it out of the box, wound it up and wore it on the flight home. It was awesome. Yeah, 'cause that was the other thing. When it first came out, they didn't release them everywhere at once because they couldn't make enough of them. I think they had an issue with that factory actually. Yeah, they did. There was like a fire or something Yeah, and it was a thing for a little while. Like when you would go to Geneva, you'd buy like a couple of them in the airport and bring them back for people. Like I have a black one that uh friend friend of Hodinky, Greg Brown shout, out to Greg Brown, uh who used to work in the same office as us. Uh Greg brought them back for Ben, Will and me uh in like late 2014, I think. Uh and it was it was so exciting to have one because you couldn't get them except in Geneva. Any other any other system fifty one thoughts here? No, it gets my vote. Get your vote? Get your vote. Definitely, yeah. Oh man. I'm loving this. So far Omega's my only miss here. Um all right, so the two brands that are up last or two, you're probably wondering where they are. The first one we'll go with AP. Um AP had a big decade to say the least. They had a big decade the decade before, but I would argue this decade was even bigger. I'm gonna go with the Royal Oak 15202, which is the modern jumbo. It's the steel jumbo. It's essentially the modern version of the original Royal Oak. It was released in 2012 for the 40th anniversary of the Royal Oak. It's one of those watches that like it feels like it's been around forever. Like I can't really imagine a time where AP wasn't making a version of this watch, but they weren't for quite a while. Um and it's still a watch that is like it's on that list of like steel watches that are impossible to get. It's years-long wait lists. They don't make relatively speaking, they don't make that many of them, especially compared to the volumes they do for some of the other royal oak models. Um and you know it's not the most popular Royal Oak. It's not the one they sell the most of it,'s not the one most people ask for, but it is the enthusiast's choice and it represents kind of a turn back to a a maybe slightly more conservative style for AP. Um you know, in the in the aughts, those were the years of it was offshore everything. I mean, every watch heading up to you know 2012 when this was released. You know, AP was releasing crazy colors, crazy metal combinations, gem set, whatever. It was like every week there was some sort of like limited edition Miami Beach, whatever, limited edition, such and such basketball player or whatever. It was like some athlete, some place, some boutique, some cultural event, whatever, had its limited edition offshore. There were so many of them and they were often so brash and kind of over the top. This to me is when AP like changed tack. Um and it's important to note that this was the same year that Francois, who is the current CEO of AP, uh Francois Benamias, um this was the year he was named it was something like managing director, it wasn't CEO yet or like interim director of something. Um, but he was basically brought back from the US office to the HQ in Switzerland and then um like 18 months later was was renamed CEO or 12 months later was was named CEO. Um so this to me, this watch, as much as anything else represents AP changing tack for the decade ahead. I'm sure I missed something. Somebody's somebody's gotta have something I missed here. I think it might be the RD2 for me. Interest |
| Unknown | ing. Because the Royal Oak It's kind of like one of the watches of the century, so it's hard to say that it's one of the watches of the decade, because it's still an old design, whereas the RD two is the same, but just pushing things forward a little bit. Moving the chain. Moving those chains, scoring those points. Moving the chain. That's my two cents. That's my hot take. I think |
| Unknown | RD two as well. Yeah? Uh or ceramic. Yeah, the ceramic. Ooh, ceramic. You know, I think I think that making the fifteen two oh two again or making the fifteen two oh two is making a watch that we already came down on Omega as not being necessarily making a watch of the decade if it was a watch that already existed previous to this decade. And I think that uh you know taking the WarLoak back, kind of cleaning up the concepts behind it and then producing some really interesting higher end expressions of a watch that you can't buy at its base is a very this decade or that decade thing to do. Yeah, that's fair. Uh so something like the R D two or the um the double balance A or uh or the the ceramic I think would be more more in line with my uh where I would I would go for uh |
| Unknown | for A P's watch of the decade. Also it's hard to reinvent a classic over and over and over again and make it interesting. It's true. And now I'm done. Sorry, John. I |
| Unknown | would I'm I'm gonna agree with Cara and with James in say the RD2. And I think I actually maybe paraphrasing something that Steven said originally, which is that this is a watch that combines kind of the uh the history and the kind of the conservative nature of the Royal Oak with all of the crazy complication stuff that AP uh does. So it kind of it seamlessly I would say m uh melds those two things and for that reason it's I think uh the uh AP of the decade. Alright, you know what I'm gonna do here? I'm changing my answer. I'm gonna go with all of you guys. I'm wrong here. The RD2 is the right choice. I had a note about the RD2 on the book. Touchdown. What? Touchdown. Touchdown |
| Unknown | . No. This is an oop de oop. That's what this is. It's an oop too. This is an actual oop de oop where we're witnessing history right |
| Unknown | now. Yeah, you guys are right. You guys are right. I had a note about the RD2 as as a watch that like I didn't sure quite fit in and I wasn't sure where to where to put it here, but you guys you guys won. Sorry. I'm all about winning, Stevie. Everything's about winning, Kara. Sorry. Says a lot about you, Stevie. All right. Here we are. Home s home stretch, guys. Last one. We're here. Who haven't we talked about yet? Let's see who's who's keeping track. I know. Who haven't we talked about? Paddock. Paddock. Paddock. John now you gotta say paddock. Patek. Patek. Alright. Patek. John over here with his patek. Alright. Uh I'm gonna pick a weird one. I'm going Grandmaster Chime. Uh Card |
| Unknown | just laughs at me. I say Grandmaster Chime car. Every time I hear that name I think Grandmaster Flash and I can't it's I I only call that watch the Grandmaster Flash because it just |
| Unknown | is. Great. I'm in. If Paddock makes a watch called the Grandmaster Flash, we should go in on it. We should buy one. We should all quit if they do, because it will it will be the end of time. Sh shut it down. It'll be the end of time. That's it, we're done. Uh thank you for listening and watching and reading Hodinky. We are done. Yeah. Um all right, I'm going going uh GMC here. Um the original one came out in 2013. It was for Paddock's 175th anniversary. Most complicated wristwatch they'd ever made. Honestly my two cents, the original one, which they made six of, um hideous. Like with the engraved case, the dial was super over the tie. It was just awful. Uh in in the It was a more is more situation. Yeah, in my not so humble opinion, that watch was a case of like it doesn't matter how much time and intelligence and engineering and like all this amazing stuff you put into a product, like ultimately it still has to look nice and it still has to like be a thing you want to put on your wrist or like all the other stuff is for not. But since then uh, Patek's released a sort of like aesthetically pared-down version, cases in white metals, not engraved, it's like a little more palatable. Uh and the reason this gets my vote for for Patek's watch of the decade is for two reasons. One is to me, it's kind of Patek drawing a line in the sand, right? Like what everybody wants Patek to do right now is to make more Nautilus. Like that's what everybody wants. Everybody just wants to go out and buy 5711s and they want to go buy Aquanauts and they want maybe do stuff like the what is the 5940, like complicated Nautilus. Fine, whatever. That's what they want. And as Terry Stern told Joe uh in a story that was published last year, like that's not what they're gonna do. They have no interest in doing that. He's he's kind of playing long game here, and to me, the Grandmaster Time is is the perfect example of that. Is you know, Ben has said many times that once you get above a certain complication level, there's really nobody making anything at any sort of scale uh who does it better than Patek. And I think this is is a watch that exemplifies that. Like this is a major giant brand, and they invested a ton of money in making this totally over-the-top, obscenely complex watch, um, in the face of the fact that everybody wants them to make like $28,000 steel time and date sport watches. And I think the message that sends about where Patek Philippe is going and where their internal priorities are versus what the market wants them to do is strong. The second reason, which I don't think we can ignore, is the fact that a Grandmaster Time is now the most expensive watch in the world. Uh the unique steel piece with the salmon dial sold at OnlyWatch for thirty-one million dollars. Um, it's the first time, at least in in recent memory, at least in a generation or two, uh that a quote unquote modern or contemporary watch has been the most expensive watch in the world. Um and I think that that''ss something you can't ignore here. Like Patek kinda like broke the market with this watch in a certain way. All right. I'm gonna open it up. What do you guys think? H |
| Unknown | ot takes. Yeah, I mean again it comes down to like breaking this into two categories. It's like the cult following or technologically pushing moving the chain. That's the theme of the episode. This one moves the chain for sure. And like it's cool to see brands doing something as complicated as that. And this is something that Paddock has been doing for over a hundred is it a hundred and seventy five years? Hundred seventy five years ago. And like the Henry Graves, like this is basically the wrist watch version of the Henry Graves and the caliber 29. Yep. 89. Caliber 89. It's the 89. Yeah. Caliber 89. Guys, I'm tired. That's alright. |
| Unknown | It's all good. James, what do you think? Is it a watch though? It's a clock. It's a clock. It's a wrist clock. It's clock. Yeah. Like it's a what's I'm with you. I'm with you on this. I don't think this as a product. I see this as a as a uh museum piece, as a a thing for five crazy collectors, I think it's uh it's uh an engineering exercise. It's a it's a way for them to say, like just in case you forget, well you are buying Nautiluses, we're also the best. And that's why I think it's important though. For that I think it's great. Okay. Um So what do you put on here instead for protection? The 5270G? I think was huge. White dial, black onyx markers. Like that one for me, uh like that's that's Patek in a non-nautilus world. But you also have to remember like 2011's 5164, which is one of my favorite watches in the whole world. Yep. I think it's a watch that that changed people's thinking about what the Nautilus is and how it relates to the Aquanut. And I think it remains, at least anecdotally, I've been told by people who know more about this than I do. One of the most desirable watches in the entire world, regardless of the metal it's made out of. It's absolutely a very cool watch. It's a it's a watch that I love and for me it would definitely be the of the fifth if this is where I'm gonna lean in a little bit more on a bias. Yeah. Go for it. Um because I no matter how much money I could possibly amass, I would never buy a Grandmaster chime. Yeah. Like it it's there's no desirability for me there. I like that it exists, I guess. Very fair. Um I wouldn't want or aspire to own one or to be the curator of a collection that had one because at that point you're not like a you don't own a watch, you own a piece of some brand's history. Yeah. And that's a lot, I think. Um and it doesn't sound like fun to own that watch. That's totally fair. I think it's an immensely impressive thing, but I would like it feels like something I'd rather see in a museum. I don't want the Mona Lisa in my house either. But I think something like a 5164A would or are a fifty one sixty four is is if we're talking Patek doing something uh in a decade that was largely defined by the Nautilus and the desirability therein, I think that growing and shaping and and rethinking the way that insiders reflected on the uh aquanut is uh crucial. I think that's fair. I can't argue with any of that. John, what do you think of it? No, I can't argue with any of that uh either. Um however I would just say that you know the most expensive watch ever to sell was made that you know, was made like last year or whenever yeah. So it's s within the decade and uh it's hard to say that if a brand made the most expensive wristwatch, uh that that wouldn't be like kind of like their iconic watch for a decade. You know? Yeah. I mean that's kind of why I I leaned on it, but I hear what James is saying and I'm kind of of two minds about this. I mean, you know, a a watch that relates to the to the Grandmaster chime is, you know, and again, this one literally is not a wristwatch, is uh Vashron to the fifty seven two sixty, which is the most complicated watch ever made. Um it's a giant like couple million dollar pocket watch. It weighs like a couple pounds. It's a total brick. I've held it. It's absurd. Um it's also incredible. And it's like the fact that somebody is doing that level of watchmaking is extremely impressive to me and definitely worth worth some um worth some applause. But uh yeah, I don't know. I I think there's it's it's a tough thing. For me it's a bit like like we're you're talking I always everything for me relates back to cars and someone this is suddenly like well the most expensive car is a Formula One car, probably, right? Like Yeah, yeah. And I don't want one of those. Like under the right circumstances and the right kind of white glove scenario I'm sure it'd be really fun to try and drive one. But like if I picked up this Grandmaster tram I wouldn't press any of the buttons for fear that some tiny piece of metal on the inside would bend or snap or Or the date wheel would move halfway because I did something wrong and its mechanical perfection was negated by my 34 years of general malfeasance. And that that like there's a concern level there and like I see something like a like a fifty one or a daytona, like these are products, these are BMW three series, these are you know, th things that people buy and enjoy and you can have as as something that's not so precious that it it it that starts to outweigh it as a as a product. Alright. I hear that. Let's uh let's take our vote and then I got one more question for you guys before I let you all go. Uh John, Grandmaster Chime? Yay or nay? Uh yay. Like a reluctant yay. Alright. A reluctant yay. Perfect. That's my favorite kind of vote. James? No. Was the when did the fifty seven eleven come out? Before uh I think before this. Before the decade. I believe before this. Okay, then yay. Alright. I'm gonna give a yay, but also with a nod. A sad yay. Yeah, with a nod, a a uh thoughtful yay. A yay, but thinking about what James said deeply and open to having my mind changed. Uh all right. Last question. We got our 10 watches. I'm gonna run down the 10 watches real quick. We got Rolex Daytona, the 1165-00LN, uh, which is the ceramic bezel Daytona. I've got the Omega Trilogy set. I've got the Richard Mila RM2701 Turbiam Raphael Nadal. I've got the original Tudor Black Bay, the reference uh seventy-nine twenty two R, the Bulgary Octofenissimo Automatic, the Apple Watch Series III, the MBF Legacy Machine 1, the Swatch System 51, the AP Royal Oak uh 15220 and the Patekville Grandmaster Chime. Who won the decade? Which watch brand? We don't have to say a particular watch, but which watch brand won the decade. Rolex. Especially if you if you if you consider Tudor part of Rolex. Oh interesting. I mean then then there's there's simply too much happening there between the meteoric rise the continued rise of all vintage Rolex in terms of just value and desirability, the explosion of the Daytona, the modernization of the Daytona, the amazing GMT, the steady advance of all of their other models, uh, and the fact that you can't buy any of them. And then take all of that, and also an amazing decade for Tudor. One that could rival Rolex's success, but they are in many ways, they operate as a p aair. Uh they they're certainly considered as such by the enthusiast community uh to have a a fairly strong relationship and and and that sort of thing. And I think if if you're if that's where we're going it's hard to say that anyone else ha brought that big a bat to the fight, but I I would consider it was an immense decade for Grand Seiko. So if we just to stick with Tudor, Tutor and Rolex for a minute, would anybody here disagree if we consider Tutor and Rolex one company would anybody disagree that they won the decade? I would say this. I would say they won the decade, but I think for for them, I think Bulgary actually had a bigger decade relative to their size and relative to their starting point as a watchmaker in in the year twenty eleven. So you think the needle was moved more for Bulgary in the last decade? Yeah. Okay. And if we consider tutor and role X separately, James, do you think there's someone else who outshines them big picture if you don't have them together? No, if they're not together, I would give it to Tudor. Okay. Um especially because we're talking about things that happened in this decade. So it's at a certain point you don't want to only talk about the Paul Newman Daytonas and what they're worth now. Uh the only other consideration is if we are willing to consider groups, I don't think anyone beat the Indies. I think independence had an insane year of proving the fact that they can operate at any level at multiple price points, at time only, at exceeding complication. Uh they can work together. They can I I th I think like for me, this decade was about what came out of that world. We knew what Rolex was gonna do because they've been doing it for so many decades. Like steel sport watches, they're really good at it and eventually they might let you down every now and then and it might make you wait wait for another Basel World, but they'll get there. On their time. But I think the indies for me is what blew it out of the water, like the MBFs, the uh caris, the the uh all of it. Yeah. Fantastic point. I mean I think a tune. Yeah. This decade was the decade of like the palace in Basel, right? Yeah. |
| Unknown | When it became a real destination. Yeah. Yeah. CB, what did it for you? I think something to piggyback on the independence having such a big decade. I think social media and the way that things were covered really changed the game for peop for independence. And I think that that's why they had some of the things maybe just that they were doing anything different than they had previously, but they they had this magnification structure. They finally had a voice and they finally had people talking about them, which I think was really significant for the industry as a whole. Um I still think it's Rolex. I still have yet to see a brand besides maybe Paddock create such a demand for such a simple well-made product. It just, you know, I know that they had a big they had a big decade before that, but like I'm sorry, like a wait list for a Daytona and a s no date sub, like I agree. I you just like it's just bizarre and like it that's and it's all anyone talks about and that's why I think they had the biggest decade. And that's I guess it's only the last half of this decade was were you gonna were you gonna say that? And so I think that that maybe skews my view a little bit. Also I'm like obsessed with Rolex, no secret there. Um but I really do think it's like it's a big deal. Yeah, I mean watch industry. I |
| Unknown | said for a long time like the thing that blows me away about Rolex is like Rolex makes a product that is totally unnecessary. Like you do not need I mean we've said this a million times like you do not need a wristwatch in the 2010s or in 2020, right? So Rolex makes a totally unnecessary luxury product. They make a million plus units, by most people's estimations. Rolex will not confirm that. They make a million plus units a year, and there's a wait list for something that no one needs and that maintains the most unbelievable brand equity and sort of like space in the popular imagination that you can you can conceive of and it's crazy. It isn't it isn't it isn't it isn't because like we also don't need Coca Cola. That's another one of like the biggest brands in the world. Like we would be better off in that case we better off it didn't exist. We don't need the we don't what's what's the biggest baseball team? Yankees. Okay, we don't need the Yankees. Yes, we do. Okay, well that's fine. But like we don't need baseball. Come at it. You know what I mean? Like a lot of this is never about what we need. Like I don't I don't know if there's like there's there's the the Rolex of every space, we don't need Rolls-Royce at all, right? Right. It's awesome that they exist and they had a good year, right? Or a good decade. Um totally. But you you in theory, like, most people like need a car, or most people like need to eat or drink, right? Like you need you need these things in some form if you don't need the same right. But you don't need the same you don't need a particular brand or a particular product, but you need something in that category. Watches are like purely there for enjoyment at this point. Like there are so many timekeeping devices around us all the time that like a watch is it's not like you need a watch and you just don't need a Rolex. You you don't need a watch. And the fact that Rolex has managed to make not just their own watches, but like the idea of watches so appealing, um, I think is a pretty pretty amazing thing. Um last question, we're not gonna do any like real deep dive here. I just want just want a brand name from you. Who do you think has set themselves up to be the winner of this next decade when we do this in 10 years? And we're doing this in 10 years, by the way. I'm finding all of you. I'll go first. I'm gonna go with Omega. I think uh I would agree with that. Yeah. I would agree with that. Omega. James, where are you at? Pretty bullish on brands like Aurus. I think again, Omega would be an incredible choice. Like that brand has so many avenues, so many moves available to them. I I I think like we might we might be looking back at at another very incredible decade for Rolex and for Patek bears. Um but in terms of like, you know, makers of traditional mechanical watches, maybe Grand Seiko, I feel like it was really the second uh half or maybe even the last quarter of this decade that was huge for them and I would I would expect that success to continue. Yeah, I' Id'd agree on that point as well. Nice. Well, thanks everybody for doing this. This was fun. And uh I'm glad you guys convinced me I was wrong on a couple points. And uh yeah, let us know if you're listening to this. Hit up the site and let us know down in the comments what you agree with what, you don't agree with. Um maybe we'll incorporate some of those answers into a future episode. And uh yeah. Okay, bye. Thank uh can I just say thanks uh to Stephen and Gray for putting this episode together. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. Good idea. Anytime. Anytime, my guy. Awesome. Thanks, dudes. This week's episode was recorded at Hodinky HQ in New York City and was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate this show. It really does make a difference for us. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. |