Inside The HODINKEE Magazine And Bringing Back Om Malik¶
Published on Mon, 18 Nov 2019 11:00:02 +0000
This week, we talk through Volume 5 of our print edition and chat with an old friend of the show.
Synopsis¶
This episode of Hodinkee Radio features two distinct segments. In the first, host Stephen Pulvirent sits down with John Biggs and Jack Forster to discuss the newly released Hodinkee Magazine Volume 5. The trio walks through several featured stories, including Jack's deep dive into the Omega Speedmaster's space flight history titled 'Ad Astra,' John's 'Reference Points' piece on the Vacheron Constantin Overseas lineage, and Stephen's profile of chef Mario Carbone and his rare rum collection. They also discuss the magazine's haunting cover story about a vintage Rolex recovered from a Cold War-era crash site, emphasizing the collaborative editorial process and the magazine's focus on timeless storytelling over trend-driven content.
In the second segment, Stephen and James Stacey reconnect with Om Malik, a photographer, writer, and technology commentator who was one of Hodinkee Radio's earliest guests. Om discusses his recent decision to pare down his watch collection to just a few meaningful pieces, primarily Grand Seiko and King Seiko models, plus a newly acquired Tudor Black Bay Bronze. The conversation explores broader themes of mindful consumption, the importance of emotional attachment to objects, and how Instagram has democratized watch enthusiasm while potentially overwhelming consumers with choices. Om also shares insights about his photography work, his forthcoming book about visual surveillance culture titled 'Third Eye,' and recommendations for thoughtful consumption in an era of frictionless e-commerce.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Unknown | Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Pulverin and this is Hodinki Radio. It's been a pretty big week in Hodinki land. Uh last week our friends at the Hodinki shop launched a pop-up in collaboration with Omega in Soho in Lower Manhattan. And we also launched the Hodinki magazine volume 5. This is something that the editorial team has been working on along with a team of amazing photographers and writers outside of Hodinky uh for the last six months or so and we're really excited to have it out in the wild. So I thought it'd be fun to get John, who's the editor-in-chief of the Hodinki magazine, and Jack, our editor-in-chief, uh, to sit down and go over some of the best stories in the book, talk a little bit about how they came about, how we made them, how we shot them, and then give you a little bit of a preview of what you'll find in the magazine itself. After that, you'll hear a conversation that James and I had with Om Malik a couple months ago when we were back out in San Francisco. Ohm was one of our very first Todinky radio guests, and he's somebody who we get countless requests to bring back on the show. So we thought we would make everybody happy and sit back down with our old friend Ohm and chat about everything from watches to fashion to photography and a whole lot more. Uh Ohm's one of those people. I smile every time I see him, and it's a real pleasure to bring you this conversation. So without further ado, we've got John, Jack, and me talking about the Hodinky magazine, and then James and me chatting with Mr. Owen Malik. This week's episode is presented by Tag Hoyer. Stay tuned later in the show to learn about the iconic Monaco, celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. For more, visit taghoyer.com Hey guys, good to see you. Good to see you. Hello fellas. Been a little uh little busy around here lately, hasn't it? I'll say. Uh I figure you two know better than better than most, better than maybe anyone here, uh, you know, how much we've been we've been doing kind of on all fronts, on on the web, on video, uh and then on the magazine, which is what we're here to talk about. Yeah, let's do it |
| Unknown | . Volume five, man. Volume five, man. It's hard to believe that we've uh we've now produced five magazines |
| Unknown | . It's pretty crazy. I mean, it really feels like not that long ago that it was like late twenty sixteen and we were like, should we uh should we maybe make a magazine? Should we do this? Should we try this? Uh crazy experiment. I think I think it's sa |
| Unknown | fe to say it worked. Yeah, I think it's been a pretty pretty big success. I think um you know the thing about doing a magazine is uh it's a s everything that we do is a serious undertaking, but the magazine is a serious undertaking in um a little bit of a different fashion. It always feels as if the stakes are a little bit higher because you know, once it goes to the printer it really is set in stone. And it's kind of a statement that we make which lives, you know, more or less for all eternity about uh you know what our values are, what we think is interesting, and how, you know, how we express ourselves about the things we express ourselves about. So you know, we feel that. We feel a sense of responsibility when we when we produce it for sure. |
| Unknown | Yeah, and it's not um it's different from a lot of magazines in the kind of like lifestyle space, I would say, in that it's not focused on like, here's the latest and greatest product. This is what's new this season. It's it's really focused on telling stories that like I would hope if you pick volume five up ten years from now, it's still interesting. And like, sure there'll be some things about it that might feel dated or whatever, but |
| Unknown | uh produced up to this point. Uh with maybe a few exceptions, there isn't a really strong news peg to them. The the idea is that these are these are really stories that uh are mate are meant to uh stand the test of time |
| Unknown | . Yeah. Yeah, and you know, it's and it's it's not a watch magazine in the usual sense of the word um at all. Um and you know, I mean have you would know. I mean as would I actually Yeah, actually you both know, yeah. Yeah as I would not, but yeah, you both know. But uh you know, and this this is is to the point you made just a couple of minutes ago, Stephen. You know, you don't open the cover and see uh the latest watches from the latest trade shows. Um and you know the only thing that's you know interesting for is uh you know historical research six months down the road. Uh you know, as John said, it's this is th these are stories that we want to be as interesting ten years from now, twenty years from now as they were the day that they ran |
| Unknown | . Yeah. And and we're gonna get into some of those stories in a minute. I I thought it'd be nice to maybe talk through the stories that that the three of us personally wrote and worked on, although we the three of us I think have worked on basically every every letter and every pixel that eventually made its way into this uh this printed book. But but yep, uh I think that's very safe to say. Yeah, I mean I can't em |
| Unknown | phasize enough how much of a team project this magazine is. It's not the kind of thing that any one person uh could do or I think would would want to do. It's uh it is uh a gr a gargantuan effort and it takes uh a really solid team to make it happen |
| Unknown | . Yeah. And it's uh, you know, I don't I don't know. We we work so much on on deadlines of like hours and sometimes minutes that uh there's something fun about like slowing down, crafting a magazine story, working with really talented designers on laying it out, hiring an amazing photographer to shoot it, and then having, you know, a late night where we're here till you know two, three o'clock in the morning in the office, agonizing over like is this word better than that word? We only get to fit one of these two images. It's not like the web where you can just like put both, you know, we have to we have to pick. Uh and there's something really nice and and deliberate about that process. Well you really have to edit, you know? Yeah, that's true. That's what it is. Yeah, that's true. All right. So Jack, I wanna start with you here. Um after all of this talk about not news peg stories, we're gonna start with a news peg story. Um, you know, as as always. But uh do what is it do do as I say, not as I do. Right, exactly. Yeah. Um but uh so you wrote this story called Ad Astra, um, which is a really deep dive into the history of uh the joint history of the Omega Speedmaster and space flight, kind of pegged to the anniversary of the moon landing. Right. What was it? |
| Unknown | Yeah, you know, it's a it's there there are a couple of ways to go at um the whole question of watches uh that have actually been flown. So there's a lot of watches that have been flown, but they're sort of, you know, they're there kind of incidentally. I mean, somebody, somebody took a Royal Oak um uh offshore um up on the ISS a while back. But you know, that's obvious that's obviously uh you know, just it was sort of not there by mistake, but there, you know, more or less incidentally as a watch functioning as an exploration tool. But the speedmaster is different. The speedmaster has been official kit for uh several different space agencies on several different occasions. And so uh going back and saying, you know, saying to ourselves, um, okay, so uh what were the actual flown speedmasters? And we didn't restrict ourselves to mechanical speedmasters, either. You know, flown speedmasters obviously includes the different versions of the X33, which has flown in several different several different versions. And you know, it's it's always fun to discover things that you didn't know before. Um, and that happens surprisingly often, you know, still to this day writing about watches. I didn't realize that when the X thirty three launched, it actually launched during a live TV broadcast uh from the Johnson Space Center and they were broadcasting from uh I don't think it was the ISS going back that far. I think it was um I think it was Skylab possibly. Um but they had a couple of the couple of Russian c you know cosmonauts and they were actually playing around with a quartz X 33 on you know on live TV streamed from streamed from orbit. And one of the things they did was they actually suspended the watch in a blob of water. Um and uh it was just uh you know just kind of an incredible thing to find out. You know, the whole story of the mechanical speedmaster is the one that makes every uh I think watch enthusiast's heartbeat a little bit faster, no matter m how many times you hear it. The X thirty three tends to be a little bit forgotten because uh, you know, it's not uh it's not a moon watch. Yeah. It's not it's not a mechanical watch. Uh but you know finding out more about the history of its development and its really distinguished uh history of use in in manned space flight up up up to today uh was quite cool. And it also never fails to amaze me that the mechanical speedmaster, just your Bog standard five thousand dollar moon watch, you know, is still being flown to this day. You know, it's a watch that is it is Yeah. I mean it's you know it's a watch cool. It's' as it it's the watch that's it's you know it's a watch that came out in nineteen fifty seven, and you know, the one that the version that's being flown is not exactly the nineteen fifteen seven nineteen fifty-seven version. Um but it's obviously it's in a direct lineage. You know, and the notion that a watch that was uh that first came out in nineteen fifty seven is still being used to this day right now in manned space flight never s never fails to blow my mind |
| Unknown | . It's really it's amazing. Yeah, it's kind of a nice reminder that like, yeah, we think of these things as tool watches and we know abstractly that they were used as tools back then, but like they can still be used as tools. Like these things are are exceptional uh objects and they're made to incredibly high standards and it's uh it's a pretty cool cool little thing to to remember. |
| Unknown | Yeah one of the fascinating things for me about the mechanical speed master is that it is still uh an issue watch for the Russian space agencies. And um one of the um European space agency astronauts who I interviewed a while back when I was working on an earlier version of the story for the web, you know, he said we don't actually have those on uh you know we don't wear them for EVA. Um and I wish we did because it would give us better situational awareness. And then the question of course arises, you know, why don't you use um you know a quartz multifunction L C D watch? And it turns out that L C D watches do not function at all. the If temperature gets too high and too low, the liquid in the liquid crystal displays actually either freezes or just if it gets too hot, it just blows the sort of blows out. So um uh you know and Kiko Ibe who's the uh inventor of the Casio G Shock said to me once a couple of years ago that his dream is to make a G Shock that you can actually use for EVA. But the technical problem of figuring out how to make an L C D display not die when it gets too hot or cold has so far defeated their every effort. So anyway, long story short, mechanical speedmaster on the outside of a spacesuit |
| Unknown | . Pretty awesome. Doesn't get much more badass than that. Easy to say, but we uh we were able to source some original historical documents, like original newspapers, original magazines, um from these different uh these different missions, uh, and we were able to shoot the Speedmasters placed on top of these these documents. And there's something about seeing a vintage Speedmaster on top of a newspaper from the 1960s. It's it's a cool thing announcing it. Yeah, it does. It's it's like it really brings you back to that time. So shout out to to Tiffany Wade on uh our our photographer who shot that. She did a really incredible job and uh yeah, those images came out came out pretty great. Yeah. Shout out and thanks also to |
| Unknown | Brad Slavin. Yeah, Brad Slavin at Hodinky, who's uh who's able to furnish all of uh all of that ephemera which belonged to his grandfather. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. Yeah. Exactly. All right, John, you wrote a story for this issue too, in addition to editing basically the magazine cover to cover. Um, but you uh you wrote reference points yet again. You become become our kind of like go-to guy for uh reference points. And this one was for the the Vashron Constantine overseas, yes. Uh which was cool. When we talked about this, it was kind of like we wanted to find, you know, we had this editorial meeting. Uh that here's your here's your peek behind the curtain. Uh, you know, we had this meeting and we said, okay, we we want to do a reference points again. What can we do that's different? That's not something people would expect, that has maybe a sort of convoluted lineage, something that's a little more of a winding road as opposed to a a straight line and we got the overseas |
| Unknown | . Yeah. I mean the overseas, obviously, you know, nowadays, if you think of the overseas, you're you'll probably think all about the Royal Oak as well, and you'll think about the Nautilus. It kind of, you know, as a member of the Trinity of or the Holy Trinity of Swiss Wchatmaking it uh you know, this uh the Overseas is their contribution to the Steel Sports Watch lineage that the other members of this trinity also have. However, the Overseas has uh, as Stephen mentioned, a much more convoluted lineage than those other two watches. Um, you know, it started as the two two two, as I think probably many of the people listening to this podcast would know. Came out in nineteen seventy seven, was a stainless steel sports watch sports watch designed by Jorg Hisek, who is a a very famous uh watch designer. And notably n he's not Gerald Genta. Notably not Gerald Genta, yeah. So if you Jorg Heisick famous for being not Gerald Genta. Right. But he I mean he was uh he was a a watch designer certainly in his own right. Oh, he's nobody who uh who I would consider to to be in Gerald Gent's uh shadow. Yeah. Uh he designed the Brigade Marine, he designed. Um you designed many many, watches. You have to go back and look. But um so it starts with the 2-2-2. There are evolutions uh within the two two two. Then you you go into a chapter uh of watches uh called the Phidias, which um is not probably so well remembered. U |
| Unknown | h yeah, I gotta admit, like I when you were like, oh yeah, it's two two two then Phidias, I was like, how do you spell that? Like what are you talk |
| Unknown | ing about here? Um I frankly I don't think I knew how how to spell it at at first either. It's uh yeah, it's uh it's a it's a watch that uh I I learned about kind of on the uh in the course of writing this uh story. Yeah. And in fact, if we if you backtrack a little bit from there, there was a watch called the 333 that actually preceded the Phidias and that came out um right after the 222. Okay. And uh the 222 was named significantly because it was released in the two hundred and twenty second anniversary year of Vash Run. The three three three, as far as I know, was named just because it kind of followed two two two. Three three three comes after two two. It was not for the three hundred and thirty third year. No, sorry, sorry. Not that, yeah. There's no sort of like time travel jin jujitsu uh going on here. |
| Unknown | No, I don't think so. Phidias, by the way, is |
| Unknown | uh Greek sculptor. Yes, exactly. |
| Unknown | There we go. He executed what the freeze is. Yep. Yes. This is why we keep Jack around. That and my endless stream of knock knock jokes. Uh and |
| Unknown | then we get overseas, right? Then you get and then you get overseas. Overseas comes in the in the mid-90s. It also kind of coincides with Von Dome's acquisition of Ashron, uh, and folding it into Richemont. Yeah. And so, you know, you never stop learning when you when you do a reference point, as I'm sure you will remember from your recent reference points. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You always learn something. Um and something I learned in the course of producing this story was uh that there are some left handed first generation overseas out there. God, it's so cool. Only a few of them, as far as we know. All given to uh none other than other than uh Johan Rupert. Yeah. The uh fo |
| Unknown | under and owner of the Rechmont Group. Exactly. I have to say, one of the most astonishing things about uh producing these reference point stories is you know I come into the office and I see like every uh overseas from you know the 222 you know on down to the present you know seeing seeing those all in one place, seeing all those submariners in one place, it's kind of mind-blowing. It's awesome. So cool. Yeah. It's such a privilege as a som |
| Unknown | ebody interested in the history of these things to like to get to see them all in one place at one time |
| Unknown | . One place. It gives you it really gives you a sense of the history and a sense of the design evolution, especially in the case of um you know watches like the 222 up to the overseas, where there really has been a very, very significant change in in the design language uh to actually see that physically as opposed to seeing it in pictures is it's and that's that's I think um kind |
| Unknown | of the experience we try to get across. It's huge it's a huge privilege and it's something that I've that really struck me actually when I first started here at Hodinky was the ability of this company to draw on collectors, not just brands but collectors and uh other people to to source just it feels like just about any watch that we want to cover we're able to kind of like pull the lever and make it happen. Yeah, I mean you |
| Unknown | say pulling the lever, but that's in some ways a good way to put it, and in some ways not. Uh it kind of undersells the amount of work you you put into this. Uh and very, very humble of you. But uh yeah, I mean, you know, some of these watches came from Vashron, you know, they they were able to help us out. Um, but some didn't. And you know, it's it's a mix of calling, you know, collectors, dealers, friends at auction houses, just trying to kind of track these watches down and some of them like the some of the fittious models, some of the early 222 models, uh, and even some of the the brand new pieces. I mean, finding an overseas turbulent in steel to shoot is like not the easiest thing in the world. Uh and they all have to get here. They all have to be here for a couple days at the same time. Uh we have to be able to shoot them. It's it's a lot. Um and it's really a matter of just kind of like old school reporting almost like you're just picking up the phone, making phone calls, hoping, oh, like I don't have one, but I know a guy who might have one. Let me call him. I don't want to give you his name. And it becomes like this game of like almost like chicken trying to figure out like okay, who's gonna actually deliver who's not, all of that |
| Unknown | ? Yeah, it's really good way to put it, |
| Unknown | Jack. Yeah. You know, one the thing, you know, before we move on, the the thing I found most interesting about this story that I didn't realize uh is the way in which the the evolution of this collection kind of mirrors the evolution of modern Bastron. You know, it's it started with a significant anniversary, the 222 anniversary, right? And from there, every time kind of the watch industry experienced a significant shock, or the company changed ownership, or there was a major evolution at Richmond or within Vashron, this line kind of gets gets revamped and becomes a new sort of spin on itself. And it was really interesting because I I think you basically could track the last couple of decades of history of the company through |
| Unknown | this one line. Um yeah, that's a really good point. You know, with two two two two you have kind of like the old Vashron, then you have uh Invest Corp is the is the new presence when Phidias comes out, and then of course Vondome and Richemont for the proper overseas as we know it. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Cool. Well, you know, not to uh talk too much about about myself here, but uh the story the story I got to write for this issue, um I I maybe got the uh most fun assignment, shall I say? Uh certainly not a bad assignment. The tastiest, right? The tastiest for sure. Um so I did our our story The Collectors, where we we profile somebody who collects not watches, something other than watches? Um, and so I got to talk with Mario Carbone, who is an amazing chef and restaurateur. Um, his restaurant Carbone here in New York is one of the toughest reservations to get in the country. Um also he's currently the the proprietor at the grill uh and the pool, which used to be the four seasons. He's he's a big deal in the in the food and restaurant world. It's huge deal isn't Carbone like the hardest reservation. I think it is the hardest restaurant to get uh into in the country. Uh which is wild for a restaurant that serves like red sauce Italian American food just done to like the most superlative level you can you can imagine it. Um but it turns out Mario uh is a huge rum collector. Um you might not expect uh an Italian guy from Queens who runs uh who's famous for running an Italian restaurant uh to be a rum collector, but he is. Uh, he really loves the stuff. He's actually kind of folded it into Carbone. Uh, so at the restaurant, they have this beautiful old uh bar cart filled with these extremely rare bottles of rum. And at the end of your meal while you're having some chocolate or some some walnuts or whatever at your table, they roll this cart over and uh you can have a tasting flight, you can try a particular rum, you can have a cocktail made, uh, and they really kind of like make an effort to educate people. And he likes the fact that it's it's not, you know, old French red wines, it's not Scotch whiskey, it's not even bourbon, it's it's something a little more esoteric. Uh and when we were talking about it, you know, I got I got to go spend, you know, an hour or two with him over at Carbone um kind of in the back room, which is is closed during lunch service, but it was during lunch service. So the we could hear kind of the restaurant buzzing in the next room. Um I mean, and when they open at at eleven thirty for lunch service, it's packed by eleven forty five. Um so we got to to sit down and chat and he kept talking about this this the fact that rum has this like slightly illicit history with like bootleggers and obviously some some not so savory. Yeah, right? You know. Uh eye patches. Yeah. And it's a it's a SpongeBob SquarePants. There's something about it that's right. There's something about it that's fun and that feels like a little bit transgressive drinking a really nice rum. Um and he he very kindly walked me through some of some of his favorites. We had a little bit of a tasting. Uh I didn't get too much done. Stephen, can I ask you a question? In the office |
| Unknown | . So this this is something I'm actually really curious about. And and and I wish I'd been there, you know, for the tasting because I've never actually had a chance chance to cross taste different rums before. Yeah. Um I remember talking to a friend of mine who's a a globe a quote unquote globe trotting epicure many years ago. He spent a lot of time in Japan and he said one of his big discoveries there was just the was the the real incredible diversity of sakes. And he said, you know, the flavor profile is narrower than we get than you would get from you know tasting a huge, huge range of different Bordeaux, but it's it's still there and it could be a you know a really, really deep dive. Did you get the same impression from tasting rum? You think it's as potentially as diverse? I did. |
| Unknown | So I I knew a little bit about rum going into it, which is part of why I ended up being the one who d who did this story. Um I don't have a tremendous amount of experience, but I I know a little bit. I know a little bit about the different countries where where it's made. Um, you know, one of the the most significant things that kind of can can impact it is there's traditional rum is is distilled um from molasses. Um but there's another style, rum agricole, uh, which is more popular in the French colonies, um, former French colonies uh in the Caribbean, um, which is distilled from sugarcane. And so you get two very different styles. You know, the molasses is already like really concentrated, kind of has these dark flavors, whereas the sugar cane, when you distill it often, it's kind of like left out in the sun and it starts to ferment naturally and it's it's much brighter. And you also get some of that kind of like estery funkiness from the fact that you've got like fresh sugar cane essentially like r wildly fermenting in the hot Caribbean sun. Uh and that really comes through. Um and some some of the rums we tasted were were really special, not just from a flavor profile, but also a historic profile. You know, one of the other things Mario really likes is the way that, you know, through the different countries and the different histories of those countries, these bottles can have really significant historic meaning. So we we drank some rum that was found uh you know maybe 20 years ago, but was a barrel that was meant for the British Navy in 1939. Yeah, yeah. Think about what was going on in the world in nineteen thirty nine and what the British Navy was doing. |
| Unknown | The British Navy stopped serving rum to its uh officers and sailors on a regular basis surprisingly recently, by the way. Yeah, like what was their daily sixties or seventies. It was quite a bit. Um I don't know how much. I would have to go check, but it's they they started I I would have to go back and double check, but the in the post-World War II, I think they started dialing it back fairly significantly because you know you go back to the history, you know, the to the a age of fighting sail and uh you realize that most of the major military decisions uh made by for fighting vessels on the open seas during the age of fighting sail were made by people who were completely drunk. |
| Unknown | Yeah. It's true. Yeah. Um but yeah so we got to we got to drink, you know, to drink something that was made in 1939. Was crazy. And you know there's there's a really special bottle um that I recommend you go to Carbone just to see. I mean, there are many reasons to go to Carbone, but uh one is this bottle of rum, it sits behind the bar, it's a bright green bottle, and it's not a special rum. It's it's Havana Club, it's sort of like Cuban everyyda white mixing rum. Yeah. But it's from just before the embargo was enacted, the US uh Cuban embargo. And so the bottle has the the manufacturing address on it as Havana Cuba. And then it also has the import address uh for an agent here in New York. So the label actually says Havana Cuba and New York, New York on the same label. That's cool. And then the glass has been stamped not for sale in the US because the bottle was still on shelves when the embargo was enacted. So it's this bottle of rum that represents this really pivotal moment of of 20th century sort of American and global kind of Cold War history. Uh, and there's there's just a pore or two left at the bottom of this bottle. And Mario saw that that that's all that was left and he had it put kind of in a case behind the bar. And supposedly a handful of celebrities have asked what it was and when they find out they try to just buy the bottle and he won't sell it. Um and after a couple couple of uh glasses of rum, uh we each took a little sip of it. Uh so cool. And we laughed because it it basically doesn't taste like anything at this point. I mean it's white rum. It didn't begin with. Right. Uh but it was pretty pretty special to sit down with Mario and chat about this and get some insight into kind of how his brain works and why this is something he's so passionate about. Um I have to admit I've been ordering rum in restaurants a lot more lately. I bet you have |
| Unknown | . Well I you know I have to say it was an intoxicating story. I think you took a really spirited approach. Oh Jack, oh man |
| Unknown | . Like I said, why we keep you around. Can we add a laugh track? Is that something we do before? I think we should going forward. That'll be a new new house style. Um all right, so there's one more story we have to talk about here. Yeah. That's the cover story. Um The Watch that came in from the cold. Jack. You want to talk about this story? |
| Unknown | Uh it was a um Wow. Rarely are you at a loss for words. It was a heavy, heavy piece for us. to work on It was a heavy piece for Cole to write. Yeah. Um you know, because it's the the watch is all that's left uh really of uh you know two gentlemen who one cold winter night uh disappeared uh off the radar and into the history books, uh but their story wasn't really known until you know decades, decades later. And so the watch was on the you know, those of you who have not had a chance to read the story, it's uh it it's online and uh it's it's just worth it's worth looking at for a number of reasons. Um and we wanted to make sure that we handled the story in a way that reflected the sort of reality of the level of interest most of us have in watches as watches, but that also shows how watches are all are are th are ultimately they're interesting because they're objects that connect us with other people. Those people don't necessarily have to be with us anymore. You know, we can kind of unpack individual stories, we can unpack individual narratives, we can unpack historical moments from watches and clocks. Um and this I think was a an incredible example of how, you know, uh watches can can connect us to particular moments in history and to particular indiv |
| Unknown | iduals. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you know, the watch in question is a two-tone Rolex from the 40s, uh, not a sport watch, basically like a an oyster date. Um it doesn't have a bracelet anymore. The crystal is totally covered in rust and detritus on the inside. You can't see the dial if there even is a dial. Yeah. Uh I don't think there is. Um and it's it's this kind of haunting object. I mean Cole starts the story talking about what happened when this watch showed up in our office. Um and when it was brought to us, we kind of didn't know what to make of it. Um and I remember many meetings of the three of us and a few other folks sitting around being like, What do we do with this? Like how do we tell this story in a way that makes sense? Like you said, Jack, in a way that's respectful. Um, and I think Jack, you might be the f the first person who said this to me, but like we had the watch here in the office in in our safe for quite a while, and uh every time I would go into the safe to get something and I would see it. Th'eres something a little bit spooky about it, but not not in a bad way, but in just sort of a like you looked at it and you kind of got a a bit of a chill. Yeah, it's a haunt |
| Unknown | it's a haunting object to be around in the in the in the I think in the deepest, most non-trivial, non-Halloween ghosts and bedsheets. Right, no, no, no. But it is. It's it's it's a it's a it's it's a it's got a presence. It's got a you know quite quite a haunting presence. And you find out about this, you know, you find out about the story, you find out about um you know how the watch you know disappeared out of the world and then you know kind of reappeared and you know it ends up in your office and you and you're you realize you're the custodian of something that's much, much, much bigger than a watch store usually is. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Yeah, it kind of forces itself upon you and you then have to kind of like do it justice. Um yeah, I don't know, John. W did did you have |
| Unknown | any like immediate reaction to this thing? Well, I mean I it was a kind of a it was a haunting object to hold in my hands, realizing that it w had been strapped to the wrist of a pilot whose plane went down, you know. Yeah. I mean almost seventy years ago. And then was uh without giving too too much away, was in the ground, far, far away from his home. Yeah. For a very, very long time. Yeah. And um ultimately was able to come back to his family and and I think it's the most meaningful remembrance of of of him, certainly from when he was away from home, that that that made it back |
| Unknown | . Yeah. I mean one of the interesting things too to me about this whole story is it was really um it's really kind of a detective story. Yes. You know, so the watch sort of opens a door to we ended up with uh a pile of documentary evidence uh in the office about uh you know the mission on which the watch was lost and you know forensics that were done when it was finally possible to go to the crash site, you know, get a US team there and uh you know try to figure out what actually happened. And you know, it was a story that those folks were I I think ultimately pleased to help us produce and pleased to be able to tell because um, you know, it's part of their history as well. Agreed. And uh, you know, it's part of a range of efforts that engaged some very, very smart people, some very daring people, and they're proud of that. They're proud of that history. And, you know, just um just incredible I mean, you know, I I'd never thought that I would write write a watch story that would require me to look at um you know partially redacted declassified uh you know CIA files. Yeah yeah and C |
| Unknown | ole got the chance to do that, which is a cool co,ol thing. And you know, it was nice. Uh I think we you mentioned earlier about the the team effort here. And it's, you know, Cole did the hard, the hard work, the legwork, the the writing of this, and then it really became a project. I know you worked closely on it and then John and I kind of got pulled in and it really became a a team project. |
| Unknown | Uh it's really it was fantastic. Yeah, I mean uh it it was uh in in terms of art direction and in terms of photography, we really you, know, stretched to do things that we had not had not done before. True. And um I think that story especially of all the stories in the magazine, it's a real microcosm of the whole process of putting the magazine together. You know, in terms of the amount of teamwork it required, um you know the sacrifice of personal ego in many cases, you know, the ability to for us all to share a you know a single creative vision, a particular creative vision on execution. And it's very rare that consensus, I think, produces such a unified aesthetic product. Uh I'm just really, really proud of the entire team, you know, for the way they came out, you know, from you know, Cole with very, very intensive research and trying to figure out what angle to take on it as a writer to the photography team, layout team, design team, production team. I mean it was uh uh I think a a sterling sterling example of uh how well things can go when things go right |
| Unknown | . Yeah, well well put. And I think you know there's a there's a reason, and that's I think that is a big part of the reason why we decided to put this watch on the cover. Yeah. And uh also why we decided to make it the digital feature uh this time around. Yeah. So as as uh as we'd already mentioned, it's online for you to go read if you want to check it out. And uh there's also you can listen to Cole reading it. We have to do it Yeah, |
| Unknown | which uh we're gonna have feature next week right here. So if you tune in next week on Hodinki Radio, uh you'll actually be able to hear Cole read the story, which is why we're not going to uh to go too too in depth on the details here. Yeah, you'll be able to hear it right from uh right from the horse's mouth as |
| Unknown | they say. Yeah, and you know, I I just I I know I know it's uh I I've kind of I've I've said it already, but uh the extent to which you know you include the digital feature, and then we're talking about our engineering team, does you know, um, digital design team. You know, the extent to which the story mobilized the um content production resources of the entire company is is incredible. And I think um man, the execution across the board was just phenomenal. You know, I mean it would it to to have produced something to to have been part of producing something that's so narratively compelling, that's so compelling in terms of writing, that's equally compelling in terms of design, in terms of layout, in terms of photography, it feels pretty darn good. And maybe that's why we keep putting ourselves through this twice a year. |
| Unknown | So you know you know when it goes right, it feels pretty damn good. It does feel really good. And and you know that's that's kind of what I wanted to end on here. Um for me, my my favorite thing about this issue was we brought some new new highly creative people in into the fold. For sure. You know, one of one of my favorite things is as an editor is getting to work with with really talented people, getting to commission great work, um, kind of working with those people to bring something to life. Um and in this issue in particular, uh, we worked with some photographers who we had never worked with before. So I I just want to quickly shout out to uh to Glenn Alsip, uh Zeph Columbato, Brett Curry, um, Josh Perez, uh, Michael Turek, Alex Wolfe, and and our own Tiffany Wade. Um, you know, we'd worked with some of these people before a little bit, but uh we really got to have these folks deeply involved in in producing some of the stories in this in this issue and um you know, even just flipping through it, uh which I've done quite a few times since uh the copies started arriving in the office. I just get like a big smile on my face, and it makes me really happy to think that we've got so many awesome creative people working on this with us. You know, it's not something we're producing in a vacuum. Uh and they they really elevate the work that the rest of us do here. So thank you to to those guys uh and gals. Um do you guys have any any kind of things from this issue you loved? |
| Unknown | Well I would just echo that. I think I I don't think we've made an issue yet that has included so many wonderful talented voices, not just uh writers, but certainly photographers. I think that's we really um we really I think we did a good job getting a lot of great photographers to shoot this issue and I think it is I think it's a beautiful, beautiful issue. Great. |
| Unknown | Yeah. You gonna echo that too, Jack? That's uh I mean uh as there's there's an old Chinese saying to say any more would be like painting legs on a snake. So uh yeah, I mean just I mean I completely completely agree with what you both have said and uh you |
| Unknown | know it was a one hell of an experience. Yeah. All right. So we'll include links in the show notes so you can go get a copy of volume five for yourself. Um if you haven't already gotten one. Like we said, it's awesome. I really truly believe you're you're gonna enjoy it. We don't try to kind of like uh hawk things or sell you things too often here, but uh I highly recommend you go get go get an issue and check out Cole's story online. We'll link both those up. So thanks for joining us, guys. This was fun. Thank you. On to volume six. Uh Without further ado, Mr. Ome Malik. Oh, good to have you back. Hey, glad to be back. I haven't seen you in a long time. Uh, maybe three months. Yeah, that's a long time. That counts. James James is over here cracking up already. Not that long, Steven. Yeah. Alright, fine |
| Unknown | . I guess I guess for Ohm, seeing me every three months is enough. I mean you live in New York. I live in San Francisco, three months. That's pretty good. That's true. I guess I take it for good. Oh, we know who to be. Yeah. Ooh. Ye |
| Unknown | ah, right. W Well, for me, coming to San Francisco not complete without seeing home. That's very kind of you to say that. Thank you. Although we crossed paths right before this. I was out here and you were in uh in New York. New York, yeah. Yeah. Checking the off off |
| Unknown | iceice.. The The ne neww office. Amazingly new office, which is just fantastic. I cannot believe how beautiful and tasteful it is. That's amazing. I mean I should not say I'm amazed because it's so dinky, but my God, the office I was blown away by how beautiful it was. |
| Unknown | I'm excited to see it. While we're recording this, I've been on the West Coast since we moved into the new office, so you've seen it and I haven't. I think Ben didn't see it either. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah, he was out here for car week. |
| Unknown | Oh that's tru.e He was off for a bit. I I haven't been there yet. Yeah. I was the first guest uh to the office. No one was there except me and Frank and his ugly Alberts. I I just can't believe that. Okay, let's flame it. |
| Unknown | No all birds ever is the rule. Yeah, let's flame all down. Also, let's flame Frank. Let's start the episode by giving Frank a hard time. Give us give us the story. Why is Frank wearing all birds? Why are you giving Frank a hard time about all birds? I don't care why |
| Unknown | he's wearing Alberts, he should not be wearing I uh there is no reason anyone should wear Alberts, especially to work. It's like wearing sweatpants to work. Seriously, it's like given up on life. What for people who may not know, what are all birds? All birds are an abomination. They are sweatpants as shoes. That' |
| Unknown | s what they are. Imagine if you take like a like a Nike flyweave, like the the kind of like knit shoe. Why are you hating on Nikes like that? No no no I'm just I'm and then you remove all the charm. And and what you're left with is a shoe that has no real form. And like that's the sweatpants for your feet is a pretty good pretty succinct. All words are rot |
| Unknown | ten celery, that's what they really are. I'm sorry. Let's can we move on? And can we get a Frank a new pair of shoes from some nice shoes? What do you think Frank should be wearing? Anything but Alberts. Should we crowdsource this? Like all the like all the time? I think this should be like a there should be an article on the right. Nice pair of chuckos |
| Unknown | . What should Frank wear? Alright, if you think that Frank, who for people who don't know is our uh is the head of our business development department, uh if you have a suggestion for what shoes we should get Frank, put it in the comments to this or like at us on Twitter or something. Tell us what shoes to get Frank. And I love Frank, just to be clear. I'm not |
| Unknown | hating on Frank. He is one of the best people I know. Just you know the Alburge is not a feature on anything, on anybody. Alright. It's like so we need to help the guy. |
| Unknown | So we're helping we're we're helping Frank and we're flaming Albirds. That's the start of the show. Not flaming. |
| Unknown | I'm just stating a fact. Okay. All birds. Flaming is when you actually are like, you know, you you just don't don't we know like |
| Unknown | them. I'm just stating some. That's fair. Alrig.ht So what are some things you do like? I know uh the watch that's on your wrist, I don't think I've seen you wear before. Uh this is my Tudor. First time |
| Unknown | . Yeah? This is the first time you're wearing it? No, this is the first first time I've won anything from the Rolex family. Really? Yeah. I'm not I'm not into the Rolex watches but I just love this blue Tudor and I think uh um one of uh the new acquisitions. So |
| Unknown | this is the the Black Bay Bronze with the blue dial? Yeah. When when did you pick this up? N uh about a week ago. Oh so it's new new? It's very, very new. Why uh why'd you go for this guy? I just speaks to me |
| Unknown | . Literally, I have no idea. Because it's not it's not like the watches you tend to wear. Nope, nope. This is like I haven't had I haven't bought a watch in a long time. This is just like it just spoke to me and said like okay I have to have it. |
| Unknown | Alright. I mean James, what are your thoughts on this watch? I love that watch. I mean it's it's a little big for my taste, but when you put it on your wrist it just kinda makes sense. And the bronze works so well with the dial and it has a uh sort of appeal that I don't think anyone else is really chasing it because it it it's a little bit eccentric, but the the bronze really makes it feel like something old, especially when it starts to color out, like patina. And uh I I mean like there's uh there's a couple rands that are really nailing bronze right now but uh Tudor especially with this one and then with the one we saw this year at Basel with the gradient or not gradient but the kind of Oh the like sunburyst. Those are both be |
| Unknown | autiful watches. Yeah I'm a big fan. Yeah, I'm down like my collection is you know pretty bare bones now. So that's why I added one more. I sold most of them. I have three Grand Seiko's and one King Seiko and one Seiko and that's it. You got rid of the paddock? Ever |
| Unknown | ything. Wow. That's so funny. I think of like when I see the fifty one ninety six I always think of you that watch with the sector |
| Unknown | dial. No man. Like I just I I have one Moser inside, but I don't wear it that much because it's like my fiftieth birthday watch and I just that just's a special watch, but I don't wear it every day. It's the concept one, right? The no markers, no logo. Yeah. And but I don't I probably will wear it at a wedding or something, but but so I have three Grand Seiko, one King Seiko, one Seiko which Kevin Rose gave me which actually and it's a very special one. So those are five watches and I I kinda cycle through them most of the time |
| Unknown | . This week's episode is presented by Taghoyer. Few watches are as instantly recognizable as the Taghoyer Monaco, and this is for good reason. The profile, the combination of colors, and the energy it has on the wrist all set it apart today, just as they did back in 1969 when the Monaco debuted as one of the world's first automatic chronographs and the very first one to be square. That square case is also much more complicated than it might appear at first. The flanks have a bit of a curve to them, adding tension to the design and offering more area to show off the brushed finish that adorns the top surface. This also contrasts nicely with the clean edges of the square, box-shaped crystal, which almost magnifies the dial beneath. And, speaking of that dial, the blue dial with red accents, white sub-registers, and those applied horizontal hour markers is just as iconic as the watch itself. Sure, there have been plenty of great variations over the years, but that cool shade of blue comes to mind immediately when you hear the word Monaco. The watch's design also hints at the innovative Caliber 11 movement that powered the original Monaco. The pushers sit on the right side of the case, dramatically angled outward, while the crown sits opposite on the left side. There's no watch quite like the Monaco. There wasn't when it debuted in 1969, and five decades later, there still isn't one today. For more about the Monaco and the watch's 50th anniversary, visit taghoyer.com. All right, let's get back to the show. So do you change it up like every day? You're like, oh, I wear this one day, I'll wear the other, or do you go through kind of like phases? Um mostly |
| Unknown | like if I'm wearing like formal pants, like you know trousers with shirt and jacket, I'll wear the dress watch, otherwise I wear the the more casual watches. There's I have a there's one black dial, I forgot the number, um which just came out like two years ago. Okay. And I just it's on a um a steel bracelet. That's like my everyday I c I can't remember the name but the date. Yeah, yeah. Just time, no date, nothing. Oh, okay. And so I wear that all the time. Pretty much like that's like eighty percent of the time. Okay. It's like my you know, what do you call E D C version of a watch? What what made you what made you want to pair down like that? I you know, I just was like all this money tied into watches which I didn't really wear, I didn't really feel comfortable wearing and they just were like, you know, they were just not things which could be utilized on a daily basis. I want I want a I want watches I can wear. You know, it's like I I I buy things based on cost per wear, not cost per o like cost of ownership or value in the aftermarket. None of those things matter to me |
| Unknown | . I mean James, you're kind of the same way, right? Absolutely, yeah. I I I I have a lot of time I have a lot of trouble even stomaching like relatively inexpensive watches that never get worn because I I I have a lot of siblings, like I feel like there's risks. I could find risks for these watches. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People who would love them. I have I don't have the hoarder gene where like I have to |
| Unknown | have I I got a j um a vintage watch from the store uh from yours uh from the Hodinki store and okay. And again, but that one is just like like more of a memento than anything else. And then I have the Hodinki nomos. Oh yeah. Which I love. And you know, it's again like I don't want to wear it all the time. It just is a very special watch because it it's the the story of that watch is that it was the first watch you guys did a collaboration and and it was the first watch, you know, Hodinki made in partnership with Nomos. And so I and I have an emotional attachment to Odinky and so I just keep it like it's like but it's not I don't think of it as a watch I wear every day. Like I have I like wearing my grand sacos. They're the ones which just mean a lot to me. And like most days when you when you look at the Grand Secos, which one do you pick up? What what's the reference? I you know, I don't really think about it. Let's say I'm wearing so I have a blue dial, I have the peacock. Yeah. And then I have the first one they launched. Like they they launched the brand. You know um uh like the th the the kind of three the smaller three hander? No, the one I just taught the the the black one, you know? Oh oh yeah, yeah. From when they launched the US, yeah. So when I wear jeans, I wear the you know, that one and then when I wear like my I I like to uh wear like, you know, a blue jacket and so so I'll wear the the blue dial, the time. Uh it says they're limited edition one. Okay. And then I have the peacock, which is I you know, that one I don't wear it as much, to be honest. Like it just is it's just a nice looking watch. It's a really beautiful watch, yeah. And I like the green and yellow. It's like I have some more but you know, they it's gotten the least amount. I then I use my I wear my grand uh my uh kingseiko a lot. Like just pretty much you know, sometimes when I don't wanna wear the steel bracelet I'll wear king seiko. I just feel like it's like there is just too many you know, interesting Seiko's out there. Yeah. Just I wanna buy the ones which I wanna wear every day. All the five watches I have from the the sake of family I wear every day. I can wear every day. I can wear one in the morning and one in the afternoon and not feel awkward about it. Like they're just like so versatile and so they're so elegant and in there they're like you know, they're like a really nice it's like Teota Cruiser or you know you can take it anywhere, right? Like you can take it to the to the back road, you can take it to the to the five star hotel, you can take it to a wedding. It's just a great great vehicle. And same as Grand Secos are just like that. They're just beauti |
| Unknown | ful from that standpoint.. Yeah Seiko's definitely one of those brands where like you you could spend your entire life collecting Seiko's and never run out of options. Like you could you could just find new things and interesting things and kind of shake it up over and over and over again and never leave |
| Unknown | As I get older I I just don't want more. I just want less. Actually, I wanna wear you know, there's a finite amount of time I've ha I have left on the planet. I wanna use the things I have. Like I don't wanna have any regrets. So I own this but never really wore it. It's like what's the point? Yeah. Like I'm not you know, I'm not doing this to kinda sell and make money off it. I just buy. Now I own things to to actually use. Yeah. I actually bear down on a lot of things, not just watches. Like got rid of a lot of the pens I own, all the clothes I had and you know, thank you real real for that. A lot of shoes are gone, like things are just a lot of bags are gone. Things are much more simpler. Like I'm I'm trying to simplify it to to owning fewer things so that I can utilize them really well. Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. I mean I'm |
| Unknown | I'm the same way, and I've said this before, but I in a lot of ways, you might you might expect that I would be a collector, like that I would have that collector gene, but I I really don't. Like if I have too much of something, it stresses me out. Like I don't I don't get any pleasure from knowing that I have a watch sitting in a box at home, which a lot of collectors do. Like the act of owning it is important. For me, if it's not getting used, it it stresses me out. Like I kinda like what you said. Like I don't want to know that it's just sitting there and that I have to think about the fact that I have this thing that I'm not using. Right. Feels was |
| Unknown | teful. Yeah, a little bit. I think it just is uh I I think as grow older my relationship with objects has changed. Like there is this desire of ownership uh and then there is desire of actually enjoyment of things and I would rather enjoy things than own things and but I want I want the best. Like and to me Grand Shakespeare's felt the best for me. I mean, for other people obviously is there's thousands of w watches out there, people buy what what is natural and amazing to them. To me, the Grand Seco is what works. Uh you know, it's like I I'm down to one camera now and like one film camera and one digital camera and it works for me. What are those uh what are those cameras? I use the Leica SL for all my landscape photography and Mamia Six for for film landscapes and for everyday casual photography. I just got a Rico G R three. Oh how do you like it? Actually f I think it's an amazing little camera. It's like point and shoot and it just is you know an amazing little camera to carry around when I don't want to do heavy landscapes. So uh but that's enough, right? Like I might upgrade to SL2 when it comes out, but I don't really have to. Like it just this one is I mean I take photographs and I and I you know, I edit them and then I share them on Instagram or on my website. So it doesn't matter if it's sixty megapixels or twenty four megapixel. Yeah. I mean it's still, you know, like it's a tiny file compared to that. So I I find that uh I like the Leica negatives just better because they make it easier for me to play with |
| Unknown | . And for those of you who are listening who would like to see some of his work, uh he's pretty easy to find on Instagram at OM at OM. Man, how early were you on Instagram? I was gonna say an absolute flex at the base level. And the work is incredible. I mean, absolutely. Uh and it's uh I think I think that uh yeah, anyone listening who wants to know what uh what you're into should definitely be following |
| Unknown | . Yeah. Can you describe it maybe? Can you describe your work so that people who who are just listening to this who haven't seen your work before uh can get a sense of it |
| Unknown | ? you know, it's really hard for me to talk about my work you know, I'm not a professional. I just am an amateur who takes photographs so as to calm down the anxiety I feel from the world I live in, which is like very hectic. I I work in technology, so there is everybody is like moving at million miles an hour, everything is just so intense. And then we have a universe which is very intense whether politically, whether culturally everything is moving so fast. And I use photography as a way to kind of, you know, shut off the phone and go find that one elusive moment of perfect light and perfect, you know, image, and then I I try and capture that. So for me, photography is a means of escape more than anything else. I'm not pretending to be an artist or being a professional. The photos I make are essentially about trying to figure out a way to stop time and and and get that feeling you know captured of like yes, this is this is a moment and it happened and it's not a I don't make snapshots, so I kinda do a little bit uh interpretation of what I'm seeing in in real life and then I try and s I wanna capture what I feel more than anything else. And so I use multitude of techniques. I use long exposures, I'll do a little bit of like um uh you know like I I shoot like very min |
| Unknown | imal uh landscapes. Yeah I think like if people are looking for maybe like a a touch point, something they can they can reference, I would say like Michael Kenna comes to mind as a photographer who ple |
| Unknown | ase don't use Michael Kenna's name so lightly. Oh, I am I'm I'm not even uh uh uh you know d dirt on his feet. So you're underselling yourself |
| Unknown | . |
| Unknown | like I I take photography more as a as an escape. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. Well one one of the things, you know, before we get too deep down the photography rabbit hole, 'cause considering we have I think what, like four cameras in this studio right now, maybe more. Um I I wanted you were talking about you know paring things down and clothing and when you mentioned watches, there were a handful of watches you said that you know you have for sentimental reasons for for the connections to people, whether it's who gave it to you or who made it. Um and you know, I think we're all sitting around this table kind of in the same boat here where we're fortunate that we know a lot of folks who who make things, whether it's cameras or clothing or watches or or whatever. Um and I think it's a really a really interesting thing that I I've tried to think a lot about lately and about the ways in which I I sort of take it for granted that so many of the things I own come from people I know and people who are are meaningful to me, whether it's you know a sport coat that I get made by a tailor who's a friend, or whether it's you know, picking up a piece of Leica gear that I bought from a friend or something like that and how that kind of sentimentality ends up being a part of a lot of things in in my daily life. And I wonder if either of you guys have thoughts on kind of how that fits into your your own lives and how that's affected how you consume |
| Unknown | things. Well I think consumption has become so easy now, right? Like all you have to do is go on the internet, press the button, you don't even have to enter your information and you can buy anything you want. There's no there's no story behind anything, right? Amazon has made it so easy to buy anything you can get. Everything you want has no emotional payload attached to it unless like you go and find that attachment. And I think if you're going to consume in a planet which is already being consumed to death, you better have a good reason and you better have a story behind it. Or other otherwise why do it? Like I mean, you know, like you, it's like I don't need you know, twenty five pairs of pants. I can only wear one at a time and I can only wear f seven in a week, so even if I wore them every day, uh every week in that order, it'll be only fifty two times I'll wear the same pair of pants in a year, right? And it's like that's a lot, but it's not really. The pants are made to last a much longer time. So why not find a little story behind it? Why not work with a tailor who who's just like you have a relationship with whom you have you formed a bond with, right? Like I mean I I personally like to wear p you know, I buy you know, uh sometimes I buy pants from Muji and they're like forty dollars and I'll buy six of them and I wear s you know them in order and like they last the whole summer. They're like linen pants and then the summer's over. I go back to wearing my woolen pants and flannels and all that kind of stuff and it's great. Like I mean you know, I don't really need need to own a lot of things, but like I you I buy uh stuff from like my pants are made by Pomela and they're just like amazing, uh amazing guys and you know, it's like I really love seeing them, I love talking to them. So I have a few pairs, or you know, four pairs from them and just it's fantastic to have those pairs because every time I wear them I think about them. It's like oh it's like I haven't seen them in a long time. Shout out to John Luca who I know is uh I know as a listener too. Yeah so yeah John Luca owes me owes me an email, but that's another story. So if you're listening, John Luca email uh email em I think this is that's what I mean is like you gotta have a little story attached to whatever you do. I think uh uh the main mean like it's same thing with the church, you don't need a lot of things, you just need really great story around like why do you even own these things? Okay. And and a lot of us don't do that anymore. And I think it's important to kinda think that through. It's like before you spend the money, why are you spending the money? Yeah. I mean it's like it's so easy to buy things now. So easy. Like there is zero friction in buying and getting things delivered. Like I mean Amazon makes it possible that you can order something and it shows up either the same day or the next day. But there's like then it takes away all the like what's there is no serendipity to it, there's no waiting for it, there is no emotion attached to anything you own. And if you have no emotion attached to it, you know where it ends up? In the in the landfill. Or in like some you know, that's just not what we should be doing to our planet right now. We've done a good job of ruining it. So far. Yeah. We've we've we've done enough of that, yeah. Yeah, maybe |
| Unknown | we should stop a little bit. Yeah, I I I really love like non casual clothing. And and I like it 'cause you can find anything that you could possibly want. Like I don't I don't know the brand some of the brands that you would uh just mentioned. Um but I I do find that like the the idea of of of just wantonly absorbing, purchasing kind of casual items that are meant to be worn and maybe never even washed, kind of discarded as because they were cheap, they can be treated as cheaply. Yeah |
| Unknown | , I think cheap and good are like you know, I think cheap and common are two different things. I think you know Muji makes great pro like sells great products. They're not they're cheap but they're very good. Some of the Uni cloth stuff is like, you know, really good. Exactly. And it lasts forever. Like, you know, their sweaters are very nice. Those lightweight merino sweaters are great and they last forever. Like you know, you can't you don't have to buy the expensive stuff to get the good stuff. What I what I'm trying to say here is like at some point, I don't know when it was, maybe ten years ago, when I'd figured out that I don't know, I mean it's like I'm you know I'm short and stocky and it would be nice to have pants which fit me really well and the only way to do it is have them made for me. And it's nice to not wear a belt with the damn pants. Right? Like it just is nice to have pants which just you know, just hold up nicely and you know, you look good and you feel great. And it's like again it's not knowing the not owning the most, but it's owning I mean, four great fitting pants are just better than forty f which don't fit well. I And think that's and I think that's where I ended up, you know, after making all sorts of mistakes. And I think we all do those make those mistakes, right? Like I used to I try a lot of socks. Now I only buy socks from Muji because you know for four bucks you got really great sneaker socks and for five bucks you got really great, you know, socks f for dress socks and and they last forever. It's like don't have to overthink it. It just is a great pair of socks and you know you buy six of those and they last a whole year. That's pretty good in my my in my books. And and I think that's where I think getting older means getting wiser on how you how you consume, how you spend your money. It's not about like, you know, you just because you can that you should spend it, like you know, it's it's just because you can you should spend it wisely and like on things. May l may seem more expensive, but they should be things you can derive a lot of value from |
| Unknown | . So I mean like a as like as a takeaway, if you had a brand, if it's Muji, awesome. I Muji's fantastic, as is unique low uh as far as what they offer for like you know price to value. Um but if you had a brand to suggest to somebody so they could kind of sample the idea of buying something and and having an attachment to it that's beyond just the fact that it's a piece of clothing, like something that where it's the right thing for you and that sort of thing. What what would you recommend? Well I just said I like I like |
| Unknown | the guys from Pumella making my pants, so I love those. You know, I like uh Bontoni for my shoes. I think they're pretty amazing and you know, I I have a lot of custom shoes from them, but I have definitely have a shoe problem. Or or at least other people think I have a shoe problem. I don't really have a shoe problem but shoe solutions. No, no, I just like designing shoes and then I design them for myself and and I have somebody make them for me. Yeah, but then when you have it it's yours, like it came out of your brain. Dude, when I die, that should be in the museum. My shoe collection will be in the museum. What museum? Okay, great. Done. I'm I'm in. No, I I I got a shoe like I love I love the idea of sh you know, shoes. I think shoes are like an amazing thing to have and like especially if you can design and create create your own. |
| Unknown | I know you said you've sold a lot of bags too. You used to have a bag problem too, right? Yeah, it's under control now. Alright. All right. I I we've commiserated |
| Unknown | about this. I own way too many bags. Well you know it's like I mean I haven't I haven't bought a new one in a while. Okay. It's been almost two years. That's pretty pretty damn good. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately people gift me now, which is another problem, because they think that I have a back problem, so my Christmas gifts end up being or birthday gifts end up being a bag. Yeah. You know. I have no problems with that gift. Especi |
| Unknown | ally if it's a good one. Mm-hmm. True. So since we talked to you last last t year, I know you've been working on a book about photography. How's that how's that project coming along? It's been very slow |
| Unknown | . I I actually underestimated the amount of effort it would take uh to get that done. It's also been uh a personally challenging year from you know, it's like I'm trying to get my health in under control and a lot of those st things have taken a precedence over over work and uh yeah, but you |
| Unknown | know, I'm halfway done. Okay. Halfway done is is still pretty done. Pretty good. Yeah. Can you uh can you tell people just in case people don't know what the what the book is about? W |
| Unknown | ell the idea behind the book was that the we are increasingly living in a society with cameras everywhere. And how does that change us as people, as society, what's the impact? You know, how how everything, you know, unfolds in the future because of that change. That's the premise of the book. And it it traces the history of you know camera and photography from from the early days of Kodak and all the way through the future where there is sensors essentially, visual sensors everywhere. Like what happens then? Like when everything and every every act of humans and non-humans is quantified by visual data. And so looking at that and the impact of that. So I've I've done the the past as uh uh uh of photography has been fairly easy to write. I think the the present is not that interesting. You know, because we Why is that? Because, you know, we just don't I think we are in in in the interim uh sta uh phase between the pa uh past and the future. I think so you're you're c seeing a lot of conflicting uh ideologies around cameras and photography and visual data right now. You know, but when you look out, I think that that's what makes things more interesting. And the book is called Third Eye and Third Eye is a reference to the the third eye of Lord Shiva and it you know, or the th the all seeing eye. And that's what the visual sensor is all about. So which is why it's it's going a little bit slow because I have to do a lot more research and a lot more interviews Okay |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I'm I I'm wonder, you know, your your background is is as a journalist and you know with the explosion of obviously there were more kind of like media properties now than than ever. And I wonder kind of something we talk about all the time in in our little little world is the way that the things like Instagram and the like proliferation of photography has kind of changed that landscape. And I wonder whether it's it's kind of quote unquote like user-generated stuff like that, like people taking Instagram photos of their watches or their clothing or whatever, or it's you know, media properties like Podinkie and some of our contemporaries constantly pumping images out there. How do you think that's changed the consumer culture that that we were just talking about |
| Unknown | ? You know, from that standpoint, a little bit more consumerism has come in because this you know, the idea is that when you look at Instagram and when you see other people wearing watches, it inspires a little bit of you know, uh desire to own what others have, right? Like that's very human. That you know, there's nothing I mean it's always been through history, like we've looked at what others are doing and others have and want a piece of that, like because can I be can I own that watch and I you know that's great like but at the end of the day that's not going to make you happy. What's gonna make you happy is the watch which will make you happy. Like and you have to get to the point of understanding what you want to wear on your hand every day. And I think that, you know, is m becoming more and more difficult in in a world saturated with images, whether it is watches, whether it is clothing, whether it is like people's lifestyles or travel, you actually have to take the time to understand yourself to know what will make you you know that you're making the right decision. This is the right product to want. Because there is so many things you can want right now. I mean like my God, like all the accounts I follow, it was like I could just I could keep buying all those grand saco watches, but then I can't really wear them. Why why like they look so nice, but in reality is that will they feel so nice? That's the key thing. And I think that's a question which is becoming much more difficult to answer in a very image saturated world |
| Unknown | . So you think people are getting instead of the images kind of giving people a way to to learn more quickly. You think it's almost like sidetracking people? It's pulling people away from their own kind of process |
| Unknown | . So if we are more aware of many more things because of these images, right? Like so that's great. I think the fact that you know anyone can find any image of any watch on Instagram, I think that's a plus plus, right? Secondly, I also like the fact that people have a big variety of of images and choices to you know, from from a let's say a watch perspective to decide. Okay, these are the few I like. However, I think very few people actually know themselves to know what they love. And that that the last part is getting much more difficult because there is just too much data and it's very hard to make that call. It's like what do I love? So people conflate owning a lot more watches with with loving a lot more watches. That's owning and loving are two different things. And I think you have to get to the point of loving a watch. I mean, which is why I was saying that you know the I've only a few you know, I've just five watches now. Yeah. Which I love. Like and I love wearing them. Like I just any given |
| Unknown | I mean James, what are your what are your thoughts on this? Yeah, I I think it's I think it's important like I I I guess it depends because I've I've met people where the part that they love about the whole process of let's use watches as an example is the buying and having a lot of them. And it's not necessarily a wealth thing or a or an established it's like they have a bug where like the i the collecting and checking off certain experiences and ownership is the is the thing. I just I'm not wired that way. So I like if it's something that I have and and and it could be something of almost any value, as long as when I pick it up, it feels like it's mine and it's special. And and it's a little footnote to the start of my day or the end of my day or or or something like that. And I also like I I've come to really love the like taking a little pelican box out of my case and showing one to my brother that I think would be cool for him or something like that. And just kind of trying to like not push this weird esoteric little hobby on someone who has been fortunate enough to not be afflicted by a need for more than one watch. But just to kind of share, like, oh, you you have that watch my my one of my younger brothers has been wearing and and enjoying one of these uh Garments uh which which is kind of one of the ones with the nicer case it was called a chronos which was I I you know in some ways replaced by the Mark series recently. And he runs and he uses the chronograph and he uses all these different things for cooking and he gets a lot of value out of it. And I was saying, like, well if you kind of appreciate the case or that about this, then you know, take a look at this thing and you kinda have like a little conversation. And I think that's where I where it is in this. I really love sharing the enthusiasm with other people. It's probably what led me to you know write about watches and take pictures of watches and that kind of thing. Yeah. But I think there is that thing where for me I could probably get away with one or two or five, would be plenty. |
| Unknown | Yeah. I l you know one thing I love about Instagram. So which is like you know we can always dwell on the negative stuff. Let's talk about the positive stuff. Okay. The positive stuff is that people need to f you know come to a place of love for their watches before they they buy something. I don't think uh you know, unnecessarily buying things is going to to make them like love their watches. So they have to actually learn about themselves to know what they love. The other thing which I love about Instagram is the amount of independent and small watchmakers I can come across and and I absolutely am grateful for that on Instagram. I think whether it's Oak and Oscar, whether it's, you know, Autodromo or whether it is, you know, even Jungs or, you know, anyone like that who's like not like you know part of the big watch machine, you know, they actually have an audience now and I love that. Like I know remember I was bugging you about those guys in Scotland. Oh uh Enterdain. Yeah. What a beautiful watch. I mean, do I do I want to rush out and buy that one? No. But like I c I respect and admire their creativity as to like what a beautiful uh um you know, dial they've created, what a great, you know, workmanship and yeah, you know, some and you know, it's like the there's so many of them out there. Like, you know, it's just just great to just come across all these, you know, unique small brands and you know, I really I think that is the r the upside of of Instagram and social media is that I I've I've come to know so many brands and you know it's just great just so many younger brands coming up and you know creating all this beautiful stuff I. know you know you guys are all focused on on s you know a lot of the higher end branch, but it's great to see some of the coverage on the smaller, more affordable brands as well at Trodinkey |
| Unknown | . Yeah, for sure. No, I mean that's something we try to do also just because it's it's such an important part of what's been going on in the industry. I mean I enjoy it but it's also |
| Unknown | it's it's an important part of the story. Yeah, I mean like it's it's like largely my footing in the industry, my into the industry was these micro brands that can't that started to exist roughly around the time that I started to dig in. So the Ocean Sevens, the uh you know, the Halioses, the uh the or the some of the gone you know poor pour one out for the prometheuses and and and some of these other brands that didn't make it. They had a couple of models and then they kind of fizzled out. These are the watchy seek brands that then uh you know quickly moved into uh instant into Instagram and then we like look at what we've what you get from a unimatic or a modern halios or an autodromo an Okan Oscar. Okan Oscar's operating at a you know an a a a a little jump above that. But they do such a beautiful job with the product and the packaging and it's thoughtful and you're buying something from a person, not from a giant company. Which I think is like kind of appealing if you especially if you if you got your start in the retail environment of an AD. It's one thing to go to a boutique and get the boutique's perspective where you're very much locked into like I walked into Omega, this is how Omega would like to be seen. It's another thing to go into a multi-brand boutique or a multi-brand retail environment when you're young and start asking questions and deal with a salesperson who could not care less and talk about just throwing water on what could be a really productive flame long term and uh and and and to to be able to to take the ownership of that discovery and put it right in your hand on your phone and be able to find, you know, follow a hashtag down some hole and find Umatic if you hadn't come across them before. Or or or some, you know, there's so many of these great brands. Uh uh Fairer's Incredible as well. There's there's some people making some really great watches at a at a price point that you know that undercuts a huge a huge market point in uh in in that Swiss world and and it it's all very much enthusiasm driven. And I and I agree that's that's one of the things that like Instagram has done really well for the general like watch appreciating world is is is not so much maybe the commentary side of it where some of that can be kind of toxic, but just the exposure |
| Unknown | . Yeah. It it's somewhat of a level playing field. You know the w the watch company which I think of uh as a successful watch company is nomos because when they came in the price points were right and it was yeah, it was like you could get into a really good watch get a really good watch and get into watches and through this really you know it was not a starter brand. It's actually a nice brand with like nice pedigree and nice quality and you know now they're expensive and you know they're they're like more mainstream. But back when they started out, I think that is an independent brand success story and I think we need to see more of that. Like there should be more like you know, more more brands like that need to to emerge and become successful. They definitely were my my first independent fan you know, uh brand as a as a fanboy. |
| Unknown | Nice. Well, cool. Well, we're uh running out of time, which is a shame. I feel like we just got started. I know. It's uh this goes so quickly. Um but what we what we didn't get to do with you last year, because we you were an early, early episode of uh Hodinky Radio, so we didn't get to do it 'cause we hadn't come up with it yet was ask you the uh the Hodinky questionnaire. So I've got a couple kind of like quick |
| Unknown | fire questions. Before you do that, are you sure you want me on this show because I just said that I'm not anti collector in that sense. |
| Unknown | Yeah, that's fine. You said you're anti-collector, we shouldn't buy things, only the little guys matter. It's great. I love it. Yeah you are. What are you talking about? You're the quintessential Hodinky guy. I think |
| Unknown | you fit in really well. We also love a perspective. Yeah. And your perspective is thoughtful and that's all we all you could ask for. Yeah |
| Unknown | . You're very kind, but you know, I've seen other people who want this being on this show is like they know what the hell they're talking about and what else I |
| Unknown | don't think we I don't think there's people on here that know more than like know more about what they're talking about than you. I would agree. I have my doubts I know. About the watches, I mean. Why I think |
| Unknown | you know w watches really well, oh I think you're selling yourself short. A you know watches really well. Two, we've said it a million times, this isn't a show about watches, it's a show about people. All right. If you say so. Yeah. I'm gonna keep saying so. Okay. Over and over again. Alright, shoot the question to man. Alright, let's do it. What's uh we're gonna start with a question about a watch with all that said, but uh what's a watch that's caught your eye lately |
| Unknown | ? Ooh, I like the new uh easy miyaki watch which just came out. Oh I haven't seen this. It's pretty awesome. Oh you're gonna have to send it to us so we can link it up. Um I don't own it |
| Unknown | . Like no no no just the link to it yeah. I actually want to write about it. Yeah? Yeah. Might have to figured something out there. James James and I are giving each other looks here. Yeah, we might have to figure that out. We know some people. Yeah. All right, sweet. What's the best place you've traveled in the last year? |
| Unknown | Oh, cool. That was pretty awesome. Any reason? Just like, you know, great landscapes. I was gonna say that's perfect for food and wine and like what's not to like is France. Tot totally fair. Yeah. Paradise. What's uh what's your guilty pleasure? Guilty pleasure is like watching uh Hercule Perot on On repeat. Perfect. |
| Unknown | Awesome. And uh what's the best piece of advice you ever received and who gave it to you |
| Unknown | ? Um the best piece of advice I got was from my former boss uh at Forbes, David Cherbuck, who basically said, uh, believe in yourself and uh believe in your gut instincts. And uh that's what turned me into a good reporter or a good entrepreneur. |
| Unknown | Great. Well to wrap things up, uh we're gonna we're gonna go back and do some uh cultural recommendations. Okay. So uh is there something you've seen lately, whether it's TV, a movie, a book, uh museum exhibition, a restaurant, something you want to recommend people check out after the show? Wow, you putting me on this pod. I know |
| Unknown | . I'm a huge crack hour fan. Um uh that's John Krakower for those who haven't read any of his stuff, but I I hadn't gotten to the stuff that wasn't about mountain climbing. Okay. Um, but he's written a ton of things. And uh and the one I the one I dug into and uh and learned some stuff and and found pretty challenging at times was one called Where Men Win Glory, which was the really investigative journalism piece that he wrote and then it was updated uh following a bunch of FIOS that's uh freedom of info act uh request on the part of the Tillman families. But it's it's about Pat Tillman who was uh uh a football player in the NFL and after uh 9-11 decided he would leave a lucrative career in the in the NFL uh along with his brother and uh and join the Rangers. And he ended up in Afghanistan and uh it's a fantastic story and and it covers a very sad topic that I don't think we necessarily have to go into. Uh uh many of us will remember the story of Pat Tillman as far as it was covered in the media. But Krakower his ability to take a very complicated story and lay it down in a sequential sense is something that I aspire to and I maybe I'll get to before I die in terms of writing. I think you you see it in in into thin air, you see it into the wild, and then I think he he really, really nailed down a very complicated story, and he loves taking people to task, those who are to blame. And in this case, there was a lot of people that let down the Tillmans and let down Pat post, you know, after his death. And uh and some of those things are realities of war, and the rest were cover-ups and and and other kind of uh harsh realities to what it is to kind of present a war as a pot positive aspect of society versus a negative. And it's an absolutely incredible book. What's the title of the book again? Where Men Win Glory. Where Men W |
| Unknown | in Glory. I highly recommend it. We'll link that up too. Um I have two books for recommendations. One is The Death of Truth by Michiko Kakutuni. It's just uh it's a good read for today's uh you know, day and age. Yeah, I've been writing a little bit on my blog about the cost of lies and basically a lot of these things which are happening in society and we are we are changing the changing uh moros in society and and so this this book is definitely w worth reading. I would highly recommend this. It's a quick read, like you can finish it in a weekend. And uh the other book I would recommend is it's called the you know uh trick mirror by Shia Tolentino uh in New Yorker writer and again a lot of essays around culture, modern society and I just love reading these kind of books mostly because you know, they're not your hyperactive news stories and they just let you you know kind of think about the world at large in a more deeper manner. So those are the books I would recommend. Um on on um on the other uh movies and stuff, I haven't really seen anything. So I would actually take recommendations from you on that. Oh |
| Unknown | man. I don't have I don't have a movie right now. Movie recommendations? I don't have a movie recommendation right now, but I do have something short and easy to watch. Uh that by the time this runs I will have already recommended this in a weekend roundup uh on Hodinky. But uh so if you're if you're familiar with NPR uh and their video presence, uh NPR Music does these videos called tiny desk concerts. Uh they have a literally tiny desk uh in the NPR office in New York. And they invite musicians to come in and do these sort of semi-acoustic sets in their office. And they're these really intimate, amazing performances. There's a whole bunch of really good ones. Anderson Pax. Anderson Pax is incredible. Anderson Pax is amazing. We'll link that up to that. Um T Pain's is |
| Unknown | unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. |
| Unknown | Uh pure talent. But the best one was published a couple weeks before we're recording this, uh, which was with Lizzo. Um it's her and like four guys, like a little studio band. Uh it's sixteen or seventeen minutes long. She does three songs. It's the best musical performance I've seen, maybe ever. Uh it is unreal. She is so talented and she performs with such joy and fun and like you wa I I found myself watching it. I've watched it probably five or ten times now, somewhere in that range. And I just have like a big dumb smile on my face the whole time. Like it is just so much fun to watch an unbelievably talented person be unbelievably talented and to have fun while they're doing it. Um even if you don't think you're a fan of Lizzo's music, go check this out. It's just like it's so stupid fun to watch. Uh yeah, I've I been've been texting it and sending it to everyone I know for the last couple days. So it's uh highly, highly recommended. Well thank you for the recommendation |
| Unknown | . Thank you for having me. Of course. Thank you for being here. And I hope uh to see you guys again in San Francisco or when I'm in New York, which is exactly which will probably be sooner than you are back here. The next three months. Ye |
| Unknown | ah, exactly. Maybe a couple of weeks. Perfect. And then a year from now we'll do this again. We'll make you a yearly uh yearly installment. Yeah, you'll you |
| Unknown | 'll be here. Yeah. I mean I don't know. It's like it's like being buddy. Well before the book launch. Yeah, I maybe away. You know, I may be away. Thanks man, good to see you and hopefully you get to see the office soon. Couple days. Awesome. Thanks, man. |
| Unknown | I love my Hodinky people. We love you too. This week's episode was recorded at Hodinky HQ in New York City and at the podcast studio in San Francisco, California. It was produced and edited by Grayson Corjonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show. It really does make a difference for us. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. |