A Trio Of Lange 1s & Some Exceptional Sea-Dwellers (Plus, Drake's Michael Hill)¶
Published on Mon, 11 Nov 2019 11:00:07 +0000
Moving to Savile Row, playing with color, and why it's important to challenge yourself.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinky Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent sits down with Michael Hill, Creative Director of Drake's, the renowned London-based haberdasher and menswear brand. The conversation explores the deep connection between the two brands, dating back to 2012 when Drake's and Hodinky collaborated on their first product together—a collection of vintage Rolex-inspired knit ties that quickly sold out. Michael shares his personal journey with Drake's, which began in his childhood when his father's factory manufactured the brand's early ties. He discusses how he joined founder Michael Drake nearly seventeen years ago, helping transform the company from a wholesale tie manufacturer into a global fashion brand with its own retail presence.
The discussion delves into Drake's recent evolution and major milestones, including their move to a flagship location at 9 Savile Row and exciting collaborations with brands like Aimé Leon Dore and The Rake. Michael reflects on how Drake's has maintained authenticity while growing, emphasizing approachability, quality craftsmanship, and a playful approach to menswear that rejects the overly serious, technical arms race that dominated men's fashion in the mid-2000s. He shares insights about working with photographer James Harvey Kelly on their cult-favorite lookbooks, all shot on film with spontaneous styling decisions that capture the brand's honest, unpretentious spirit.
Michael also reveals his personal passion for watches, particularly colorful Swatches that remind him of his childhood, though he's wearing a vintage Tudor Submariner during the interview. The conversation touches on how this playfulness with color and accessibility influences Drake's design philosophy—whether creating bright Casantino pullovers or reimagining traditional tailoring for modern life. Throughout, Michael emphasizes that while Drake's takes craft seriously, at the end of the day "it's just clothes," and the goal is to make beautiful, well-made products that people can enjoy wearing in their everyday lives without pretension or intimidation.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Unknown | When you're in it, it's it's funny, it I suppose it feels normal. It feels like that's you know how it's supposed to be. Hopefully that doesn't come across as as something arrogant. I've I felt we had a great product, and if we could tell our story and get out there and make you know products that we really believed in, slowly, bit by bit, you know, people would come and we'd be able to, you know, start building something. And thankfully, you know, we're still alive |
| Unknown | . Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polveran and this is Hodinky Radio. Our guest this week is an old friend of mine, somebody I've known for over a decade. His name's Michael Hill, and he's the creative director of Drakes, the London-based haberdasher, Time Maker, and Taylor. Michael's actually the very first person we collaborated with on a product here at Hodinky way back in 2021, and he's someone whose own business has kind of grown alongside ours. It's been really great to watch him take Drake's from being really a tie and scarf maker to being sort of a global fashion brand. He's got an amazing eye for color, amazing taste, and he's also an awesome guy. I was really excited to sit down and talk with him about some of Drake's latest collaborations, their move to Savile Row, and why he still pairs his clothes with colorful swatches. It's a super fun conversation and one that I've been wanting to have for a long time. But first, I sat down with James and Ben to talk about some highlights from the site recently. We talked about Ben's talking watches with Reza Ali Rashidion, who has probably the world's finest collection of dive watches. We talked about a trio of incredibly rare Longa ones coming up for auction. We talked about Fitbits sale to Google and a couple of other things. You'll have to listen to get the full story. So without further ado, my conversation with Ben and James. This week's episode is presented by Tag Hoyer. Stay tuned later in the show to learn about the iconic Monaco celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. For more, visit taghoyer.com. All right James, good to see ya. Hey, how's it going? Hey James. Hey. James in from Toronto. I'm about to go to G |
| Unknown | eneva. You off anywhere, Ben? Uh I go to Paris next week. Oh, nice. And then shortly after that, Japan. Oh yeah. We're doing Japan. We're doing |
| Unknown | Japan pretty soon. Yeah. Yeah. Uh we're gonna record something out there. So people are are gonna hear a little bit from us In Japanese though, right? In Japanese yeah, I mean we both fluently and you too, right? Yeah. Yeah, of course. James? No. No. Okay. Speak Canadian? Here and there. Here and there. The most Canadian answers that question. If you need me to. While we're all in the same place, I thought it'd be fun to get us together and do a little uh little chat about some stories that have been on the site recently. We've had some some pretty exciting news, uh some pretty crazy deep dive stories. So let's let's actually start with one of those. Uh Ben, uh you published recently Talking Watches with Reza Ali Rashidian. Yeah, I did. That's a hell of a story. |
| Unknown | That was a hell of a story. Yeah. Reza, for for those who who don't know, kind of runs runs in the same circle as like a John Goldberger or uh Alfredo Paramico. I mean he,'s really considered an elite collector, part of you know, good friends with RL Box and John Reardon and all the guys that are kind of at you know at the higher echelons of the collecting world. He's a bit more under the radar. You know, he uh lives uh you know outside of kind of central European capitals, etc. And he um you know for the longest time really didn't talk about his collection at all and he was kind of an unknown quantity. He kind of opened himself up in the past few years. He did a book with John Goldberger and Daniel Bourne, uh called Into the Deep, into the Deep, Into the Deep, which we carry in the shop. I think we're actually the only people that carry that book in the United States. Uh, it is only his collection, which is pretty wild. It's about 200 pages. And we're talking, you know, a hundred plus vintage Rolex dive watches. This book is only Rolex dive watches. Uh and he's he's kind of the dive collector. Uh you know, and he has, as I'm as we saw in the video, deep sea special number one. Which is so dope. It's insane. That was incredible. That's really, and you know, he made a lot of really good points in that story. And I tried to get that across in the video, but I'm not sure it really made it through. You know, I'm a Daytona guy, I'm a Samariner guy, I I like I like all vintage Rolexes, basically. And he and I was like, you know, why did you go towards sea dwellers? Like not even some mariners, but like the biggest, baddest motherfucking Rolex Divatch as you can imagine. He's just like, I care about competition grade cars, I want basically, basically the equivalent of that in a watch. Like that to him is the C dweller. Like he wants the watch that went the deepest, you know, the earliest, et cetera. And he's just like, you know, to me, a Daytona is was worn by the guy on the sidelines. You know, you know, he was basically the guy that was timing the guy who was actually racing this who wore the Daytona, which is somewhat accurate. There were obviously drivers that wore it as well. Um, but he made a lot of sense. And he's like, you know, he used to race competition Ferraris and things like that. Yeah. Um, and so it it made sense when you start to understand who Reza is that like he just wants like the most technically proficient tools available. And then the other thing that was kind of shocking to me, even though I already knew it, I never really processed that like that deep sea special was made in 1953. Yeah. Like I mean, that came out basically before or at the same time as the earliest Samarina. So Rolex had that technology in 1953, which is downright crazy. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. It's also crazy to think like, what was the world doing in nineteen fifty three? Like Europe was rebuilding. Like Europe Europe was in shambles in nineteen fifty-three. Yeah. Uh and they were making things like this |
| Unknown | . It's a crazy thing. It it it really is. And that that watch in particular, the fact that it's number one. I mean, to have a deep sea special at all is crazy. But to have number one, I mean, this is Rolex's first prototype mega dive watch or watch ever, uh, is is pretty wild. I mean, it's earlier than the watch that actually was you know successful in going to the Mariana trench. Yeah. Yeah yeah |
| Unknown | yeah. What'd you think, James, when you saw this thing? I think it's a crazy thing. I think it's remarkable that it's not just in a drawer somewhere, deep under Rolex's headquarters and like the fact that not only did we get to see it but uh Reza was kind enough to allow us to film it and share it with the world and like create this thing especially because like you said he's kind of a low key dude about his collection or at least has been historically, he was on our dive watch panel at H ten. Right. And like I met him five minutes before that panel, and he's like the sweetest guy. He's amazing. He's uh really well spoken. He knows obviously he knows all of it. So he can talk at any level. He was able to talk at a panel level, which is kind of a weird ask of an expert to kind of bring it to a level that anyone would appreciate. And I I think he it was fantastic. And I I love the video. I've watched it a couple times. And to see that one along with a couple of the other pieces and then the one that he says that he wears the most often and they're these just wild ones. Yeah, the Iranian mills. So just |
| Unknown | like one of the coolest things ever. It is. Yeah, can you gu |
| Unknown | ys talk about that for for people who haven't seen the video, which we'll link up and you should definitely go watch. Yep. Yeah, he has this incredible and it's it's uh he has this incredible Iranian mill sub which is uh believed to be a one of one. Something like only one we know, for sure. Yeah. Uh and it's just you know it has the the crest on it and otherwise it's this like really badass tool watch like it's just the like a the it's that purely distilled like uh early submariner yep uh and then to have the the you know credibility |
| Unknown | to to tie back to being that rare is really cool. Yeah, and I think so, you know, a lot of the comments were like, oh, he's only a Rolex guy. That's actually not true. So he actually he's got a Doxa collection, he's got an Omega collection, he has all these other kind of subcategories of dive watches in his collection. He just chose to go with this because in many ways, you know, the sea dweller is kind of the archetype of of the dive watch. Uh, but I mean he is a lover of of all dive watches, which is pretty neat. And I think, you know, at at some point, if we can, you know, down the road, probably no time soon, we'll s we'll kind of cycle back and do another talk and watches with maybe some of the more obscure stuff. Because I mean he's got some crazy doxas and like seemas and just like weird things that that most people don't know about. So I think in many ways this was kind of like much in the same way that like the John Mayer video number one was like this is pretty basic level stuff. Like here's a 5970, here's a six two six three. And then in episode two, we were like, all right, like here's a unique five thousand four that I designed so I could see the hands on the stage, you know. Uh I think you know, if we had the opportunity to do that again with Reza, it would be pretty ep |
| Unknown | ic for sure. I agree. I mean, and and any any like quiet Doxa collector, that's a fun view. Like I find their watches to be some of the most interesting. And certainly like talk about a brand that at the time when Rolex would have been doing things like a sea dweller and deciding that you needed a uh helium escape valve for saturation diving docks was right next to them. They essentially co-shared that patent or fought their way into that patent together with the earliest examples of automatic helium release valves. I mean, they were as hardcore as you could get. They didn't obviously haven't had the same uh legacy moving forward. Brand had more troubles than Rolex. Um, but really a a a fascinatinging th and just like massively cool watches. And to be fair, every brand has had more trouble |
| Unknown | than Rolex. That's fair. For sure. Uh so going the the kind of opposite direction from from this kind of collection. Uh we're going to stick with stories you've you've written, Ben. You wrote a story about these three wild Longa ones that are coming up for auction. It's a closed back in yellow gold. Yeah. It's Honey Gold, and it's stainless steel. Yep. Uh that's basically the holy trinity of of Longa Ones. And |
| Unknown | in in my eyes, I mean there are other ones. There's Japanese editions, there's the one A, there you know, there are other really special Langa Ones. Uh and then of course there's Longa One turbion and you know crazy stuff. Uh but to me these are kind of the the purest uh you know, to borrow a term from James, like the purest distillation of what a Longa One is. Um they're all amazing. I've owned them all actu,ally. Uh I currently own one of them. And it is, you know, the the Longa One, as I said in the story, it's like it is a perfect watch. And like if I, you know, was a normal kind of like, you know, executive guy in New York City and I had to like dress up everyy da, like I'd be wearing a Longa One every day. I would I'd probably have like you know a Speedmaster and like a Longa One or a Daytona or a Samariner and a Longa One. Uh and I think that that watch just says so much about the people that that wear it without it being you know kind of like front and center basic bitch daytona style you know or being really expensive. I mean to be clear Longa One is like a $30,000 watch at retail. So this is a really expensive thing, but like it is not it is not offensive to almost anybody because it's Longa, not Petech, and certainly not Rolex or Omega. You know, it it it is really just a special thing and I think, you know, you know, we we talk so much on the site or we actually don't, but you guys do, you being the commenters about date windows, right? I mean people hate date windows. The date window on the Longa One is amazing. You know, I mean that is the watch. Yeah, the the whole watch is designed around that date window. Yeah, and and by the way, it's nice having a date on your watch, you know, especially a big one. You know, so it's uh the longa one is just such a great watch, and and those three watches in particular are really special. The the closed case back, I think, is is the sleeper hit. You know, they are so undervalued. As uh as one of the younger guys in our office said to me recently, he's like, How is basically basically the A series of the Langa One selling for a tenth the price of a steel watch or whatever, it doesn't make sense. You know, it really doesn't. It's just that people don't really know about it. Uh that's what the point of the story was, was like, hey, these are really cool things. Like, you know, pay attention because like th thoseose closed case back watches existed for like maybe a year. You know, like the one that that that we found in that crot sale was sold two months after Langa was revived. Like, you know, that happened on October what, 24th or 25th? Yeah, something like that. This watch was sold in December of the same year. You know, I mean like this watch was like it would had just come out. It's like case number forty six or something like it's like a really early watch and I think that is really compelling. Especially when you look at like how popular like for series Royal Oaks are and and novelists and Daytonas and subs. So that watch, you know, if that sells you know south of twenty thousand dollars, which I don't think it will, but it has in the past, it's just a a a screaming bargain. You |
| Unknown | buying one, James? I've I mean the the w I feel like the last thing I sat in on was those ten watches that change the watches that people wear on their wrist. The uh and and we talked about the longa one and that. I'm not sure I can add to anything. I would absolutely adore to own one. They're all mega cool and the three in this list are ones that are so much more nerdy for various and different reasons. Honey gold will always be something I think is vastly cool. It's not only just the name, but a yellow gold with the solid case back is like immediately, and then when I saw the like predictions ten to fifteen thousand euros, I'm like, Well, what what do I have to do? Yeah. What what what can I jettison? You know, the boat the boat's above water, but we could raise that line a bit, right? I love it. I think it's I think they're massively cool. I don't know th I'm I I do question if I could pull one off. You could with how I normally dress. Like I think some days it would work and other days I'd have to go back to a dive watch or something. But |
| Unknown | massively cool things. Like on the weekends when wearing like a sweatshirt and stuff, like you know, it's it the longa one is a little maybe dressy for that, but it is not like it's not a dress watch, like it's not an ultra slim watch or anything like that. You really could wear it every day. I've worn them with t-shirts, like like polo shirt. I think that's my favor |
| Unknown | ite like move for a long of one. I don't love the strap that this one is on. The gator with the like really bright contrast, but on one of our like a proper kind of suede down key strap would |
| Unknown | be for the something else. I you know, I had I had a steel longa one for a long time and uh I wore that on one of our kind of like honey gray straps and it's like it's super chill. Like so and that watch being steel, I could I could really wear it every day, you know. Yeah. Uh yeah, longa ones are sweet. |
| Unknown | Yeah, I think my my general inclination with things like this is to gravitate towards the steel watch. Uh makes sense. But in this case, I think honey gold's the the |
| Unknown | standout here. Well I mean as as somebody who at one point owned all three, I sold the other two. You know what I mean? Like I sold the steel watch, the price just got crazy, you know. Uh I sold the the clothes case back watch just because, and the honey gold to me is uh for personal reasons and and just like as a collector, like I bought that watch new from Longa. Yeah, they only made twenty of them. Like that is confirmed. You know, for all we know, there's a drawer full of steel langa one somewhere. Like that really could be true. We have no idea how many were made. I don't I don't think that's true, but it's possible. You know, for sure 20 honey gold long a ones were made in 2015 or so. Uh, you know, in in many ways they were kind of given, and I don't mean given, like I I paid for this watch, you know, offered to kind of friends of of the brand. Uh and so, you know, there are I know, you know, probably where a fifth of them are or a fourth of them are. Um and they're all with like amazing people that have great stories with the brand and just on their own. I mean that that's a watch that's with me forever, like full stop. R |
| Unknown | ed. Uh going to something about as far away from that as we can, uh big piece of news that that broke this week that I want to get your guys' takes on here. Um is actually in the smartwatch space. Uh so Google acquired Fitbit. Yeah. James, |
| Unknown | you want to lead the uh sure. I mean I I I I don't know that I have like what I would consider like a special opinion about this. I've followed Fitbit since they first came out. I've probably owned their first either indirectly as in I bought them for a a a partner or or a uh as gifts or something like that. But I was involved in their very earliest products when the the product was actually pretty rough around the edges and that sort of thing. And and I think that I think that what I see is two things. The number, which is is it two one? Two billion, yeah. Yeah. Two point one billion. Two point one with a B. Um big B. Like that number says that Fitbit has succeeded. And Google paying that much has says that Google failed. At the same game. Interesting. That's how I see it. Is that Google has tried many times, both as a software developer and in some uh I'd have to double check this, but I want to say they did develop their own through either LG or maybe another uh manufacturer, like a Google branded smartwatch. Yeah, Samsung. Um oh, it's through Samsung. Oh that that's right. And was previous to the Samsung stuff going to their own OS and thus leaving where OS, which is this is very complicated. And I'm also speaking sitting in an office where I'm like one of three people who don't use an iPhone or have an Apple Watch or have any interest in these things. It's definitely the Canadian thing. We'll get to there. It'll be okay. I started there. Uh and left many years ago. But uh you know, these days I think that in many ways um That whole world is really starting to divide small hairs between the functionality of an Apple product versus a Samsung product versus uh something else. But where you get a big differentiation is the Apple Watch is vastly better than what's being offered by everyone else, with the only real exception in my mind being Garmin, who's gone in a different direction but is making an incredibly uh useful product, one I wear quite frequently. Yeah. But it doesn't really run or care if you're on Android or Apple. So if you're let's say in either one of those two camps, as most people are, um Apple is going a lot harder in terms of making a product that people want and care about and feel something about when they put it on their wrist versus I mean you see it Samsung watches, you see the ones from other brands, and and and I think that they're either an afterthought, they came with a phone, they were $99 on Black Friday, and you needed a watch and and you know I I think there's there's a there's a passive nature to the way that people are buying some of these products that that doesn't exist for Apple. And I think that this is Google saying we need to try and catch up. Yeah. Yeah I. I I |
| Unknown | I would would take a slightly different kind of you know viewpoint of of the the success of Fitbit because they went public what like a year and a half ago, two years ago. Yeah. They were a publicly traded company. They were up until the point that Google uh they still are today, obviously, as as Google is acquiring them. But I believe they went public at like a vastly higher share price than this, like significantly higher. Like people thought this was gonna be like an Apple or Google or something like that. And so I think in many ways, and again, I don't know this at all, it feels like this is kind of like we're cutting our losses, we're out. You know what I mean? Um and after this I can tell you some backstory on that. But uh you know, so th they're definitely subscriber podcast. Exactly. Only it's there are two subscribers, James and Steven. Platinum Platinum level. Platinum level Hodinky. So you know, in many ways I think they're like, hey, like, you know, this has not been going that great for us since we went public, and you know, I mean the the public markets have really been hard on companies recently. I mean, in many cases, warranty and we work, etc. Uh, but I think I think the public markets have been exceptionally hard on fit on Fitbit. And so when they got this offer from an amazing acquire, like you know, one of the best companies in the world, they're like, hey, we'll take it, we're out. You know? Um and I think you're you're you're dead on in that Google, like they they kinda have to play ball here. You know, I mean the the Apple product which I'm wearing right now is as James said just, so I mean it's it's vastly superior. Yeah, it it's not they're not making the same thing, you know. Uh and I think that that that's just not good for markets in general. |
| Unknown | Yeah. I mean, so Joe, Joe wrote our story about this and we'll we'll link it up. But there's there's two numbers in this story that that really kind of surprise me. Uh one is Fitbit is the second largest smartwatch producer in the world and makes less than a quarter the number of units than Apple. Right. So they're number two making less than twenty five percent the number of products. Right. Like that's that's a huge market disparity. Also probably much lower prices, right? Than the Apple Watch. Average price is much lower. Yeah. Uh and the other thing that shocked me is of the top five smartwatch producers in the world, only one of them, which is number five, which is Fossil, uses Wear OS. So Fitbit and Google both have problems here. And it seems like by joining forces, maybe they can start to solve them. I mean, Google has the software, but nobody who's making smartwatches at any volume is using it. Yeah. And Fitbit is number two, but not nearly close enough to number one. Um maybe they can they can kind of help each |
| Unknown | other close that gap. Yeah, it's tricky. I mean like Google Strength has never been hardware. I mean, the exception being Nest, but they acquired that, you know, from from our friend Tony. Yeah. And it's uh and you know, it's one of those things where like it's just not in their DNA. I mean like Apple is hardware. It's software too, but it's primarily hardware. Like these are beautiful things, you know? It's also super hard for |
| Unknown | for Google to they they try and play on Apple's field. And this is coming from like I adore Apple, some of Apple's products, I don't care about the rest. But you there's no way that you can look at the way that they operate, like Ben was saying, the the two sides of this world, which is hardware and software. I adore their software. And uh and and and obviously like MacBook Pro, that sort of thing, like these are these are like known quantities for a reason. Right. And they're de facto options for a reason, and Google has none of that. I mean, this is a company that only like two years ago just fully backed out of making tablets. Right. They had it, they had an offering and they couldn't keep up. And this is at roughly the same time when Apple really doubled down on the same concept. So they' twore companies that really approach things |
| Unknown | in very dissimilar ways. Yeah. And and let's be clear, I mean Google is a gigantic company. This is not like an underdog thing here, you know? I mean their market cap's gotta be what, six hundred billion? You know, Apple might be at nine hundred. Like it's a huge thing. Those are just guesses by the way. Um you know it's it's just it's wild that they haven't figured out the hardware thing. Like how about you go in and you bring in, you know, Eve Bahar or Mark Newson, or I guess he's with Apple, but like take some great designer and be like, hey, let's do hardware. Like they should be able to figure this out |
| Unknown | . Especially because like some of their hardware, like I have Google Home stuff in my place. Like that's not bad. It's in it's unobtrusive. It has some qualities that I like about it. And otherwise, they lean so hard on essentially being the connective tissue for other brands, other hardware makers. And I think that's where they might have, they might have, you know, a pretty tough time trying to catch up, even after spending this much money on Fit |
| Unknown | bit. Yeah. I mean again, it's like two billion dollars to Google, and I know this is gonna sound ridiculous, but like it means almost nothing. You know what I mean? So like the they're gonna place this wager, if it works out for them, they get a big cut of a market that's growing, obviously. If it doesn't |
| Unknown | So if it was if it if you were if it was left to you to build the twelve month roadmap, what are the few things that you would try to do to not even bridge the gap, but I would say if if we're saying that Yeah, yeah, but like if if Fitbit was worth vastly more when they were in the IPO than when they sold, which was some and a factor I didn't pay attention to. Um but if that's the case, then what do you do to stem the bleeding? Because it's then if they're on the downward motion, now they're on a new a new theoretically a new a new path. I th I think the |
| Unknown | the one thing that Fitbit and now Google have really have going for them is like they were kind of there first. And like in like I never had a Fitbit, but like I'm compelled by them 'cause you know, like right now I'm wearing the Apple Watch on my right wrist purely for fitness, basically, in he you know, health tracking. And like I kinda wish it didn't have screen. Like I kinda wish it was just like a little bit more under the radar, you know, because I'maring a Patek on my my on left wrist. Uh I think leaning into that world, I think what would really be a great idea. They will never be better than Apple at this. Like they just won't. And I and like I would tell that to their CEO, you know. So I like don't even try. Yeah. And you know, go for the guys and gals that like want the fitness tracking, want some sort of health alert or or some even some communication, you know, component to it, but in a really under the radar way. And I think you know, Apple is not under the radar in any way. Like the whole point is that these are easily recognizable, you know? Uh but I think if you know if Fitbit came out with a product that did everything that Apple does from a health perspective and was smaller and like basically a a bracelet, you know, really just looked like a bracelet, I I would buy it and use it every day. Yeah. I mean the the there is I'm I'm I'm |
| Unknown | in the same boat. An Apple Watch bracelet is basically what I want. Right. Yeah. So I mean uh there's a proof of concept there, which is a product I used for a couple of years uh previous to my full-time existence in this world. I worked you existed before Hodinky a little bit. Um so pre previous to when this was my living, I worked somewhere where you weren't even allowed to have your phone on your desk. Uh-huh. And I don't really like a smartwatch. I want to have like an actual watch on my left wrist, but I did find this company, and this is a uh Chinese company called Chow Mi. They make something called the Mi Band. It's now in its fourth or fifth generation. And it looks like um it's it's just a rubber band essentially that would I I would say it's maybe one half the width of a of a iPhone band. And it has a little screen and also has a vibration motor in it. So you can turn the screen off entirely and you get your notifications via the motor. It does all your fitness tracking, but it's almost weightless. You could wear it next to a watch if you wanted to. So I mean the proof of concept is there. That's obviously from another um huge player in the Android side of the space with Xiaomi. But uh I I I always liked that functionality until I got to the point where my job is largely having my phone in my hand and looking at it. So That is largely your job. Yeah. I'm good at I mean I'm good at that part of it. You're super good at |
| Unknown | that. Yeah. Big phone. All right. So last thing I want to talk about today. Uh again, we're going to swing back in the other direction toward towards sort of fine watchmaking, which is our colleague, Mr. John Buse, uh published an in-depth review of the Vashron Constantin Overseas Turbion. Yeah. Which is a watch that I it's kind of a funny one in that I feel like we all saw it at SIHH and all had the same reaction, which was I shouldn't like this, but I really like this. Yeah. Uh and I wanna figure out why. Like, why is this a watch? How did Vacheron somehow convince all of us that like a slightly big, slightly in your face, sporty turbine is like something we're kinda into. |
| Unknown | I mean uh uh on the other side of that like it doesn't do that much for me. Really? Especially when like the perpetual is a watch that I just adore. Yeah. Perpetual is a lot of that that ultra thin and solid gold with and they also had the same, I believe at SHH that's where they introduced the gold bracelet for it. Yep. Yep. So you can now go full gold and an ultra thin with the QP and what I think is like an absolutely gorgeous watch. I I love the overseas format. I like their twin timer. I love that one of one piece they made with Corey Richards and Titan. It's going for sale. I missed that. For sure. Oh yeah. Somehow I miss that. Really cool watch. I, you know, I had a chance to uh interview Corey for uh Green NATO and hold that watch and play with it and to see a brand so synonymous with dress watches and high watch making make something kind of sporties cool. As far as the turbion goes, I feel the same about that turbion as I do about um essentially all non-Grooble force turbines. So just it's a shrug. Yeah, I get it. All right. I get |
| Unknown | it. I mean I I think you know I this is compelling to me. Would I would I buy one right now? Probably not. But I I think what what Vashron has really started to figure out is like they're playing in they're playing the same game that AP has been playing all along, or at least for the past five, ten years. You know? Like they're they're playing the game where like, hey, we're gonna make a fuck you watch. It's gonna be steel. You can wear it every day, but like there's gonna be a turbine and like a nice one, you know? Yeah. Peripheral rotor. Peripher rotor. And that's what we we talked about in in another episode about the GPHG. Like this in many ways is a I won't say vastly, but it is a superior movement technically to the AP turbion. So APs are hand wound. It's that movement's been around for as long as I've been around, basically. It's great, don't get me wrong. But this Vashron movement is is more interesting. And again, these are everyday watches. Like you kinda want to have automatic winding on this for sure and to be able to see through the aperture of the turbion without the rotor getting in the way is actually like okay like they thought about that. So they did peripheral rotor. A little bit bigger than I would have liked, but that that kind of is what it is. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, I would also choose the perpetual, but I think that there is a a big market for this. And I know for a fact, I mean, Vasharon has told us that that watch in particular is basically sold out everywhere. And we're talking a hundred thousand plus for a steel watch. Yeah., for sure Um so I think you know the overseas is really starting to sing. Like it's really become it's really coming into its own. Yeah. Um obviously with Odysseus and the Chopard thing and there's there's so many alternatives now to the Royal Oak and the uh what's the other one? Nautilus. Nautilus, that's right. That thing. That thing. That whole thing. Yeah, that whole thing. And uh and you know, I I think the most logical step for anybody that either can't get or doesn't want to get an AP or a paddock is Vashron. Yeah. You know, there that's real authenticity there. That you know, the the the 222 followed up by the overseas. I mean, this is that's a it's a real brand and a real line, and like you know, they're they're really starting to nail it, I think |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I would agree. I think I'm I'm probably in the same boat as as you guys too, where if I was spending my money I think I'm going uh gold perpetual. But this watch specifically on a rubber strap, the turbine on the rubber strap to me is it's it's it's a strong it's a low-key strong m |
| Unknown | ove. Yeah. No, I agree. Look, I I think the overseas has a lot of killers out there. I don't even know if they still make it, but for a long time they made a white gold version of the perpetual calendar on bracelet. Yeah. That's a badass thing. I re that and they also made it a time only. Uh I I I really, really loved when they were doing that. These super under the radar, like, you know, it would look like it's steel, but it's white gold, which you know I love. And uh it's the perpetual based on the you know the twenty one twenty, but their own you know, own perpetual mechanism. And like in many ways, you know, I I have an AP perpetual that I love. I wore it yesterday. But I think the the overseas is just like I would be more interested in talking to somebody wearing an overseas than a royal oak at this point for sure. Ye |
| Unknown | ah, there's there is something about that about the overseas where you see somebody wearing it and you know they're interesting. Like it's you're you're not just like some schmo who made some money and walked into the Vacheron boutique and was like, Oh, I'll take that overseas uh perpetual calendar. Like you have to be like an interesting person in the kind of like that brings you to that watch. Right. Right. You have to be into it. |
| Unknown | You have to kind of know what you're doing a little bit. Yeah. And I think it just like it also says like there's some pragmatism in that person. It's like like why would I you know realistically the majority of people that wear any ap or or or any royal oak rather or or nautilus like they're not paying retail you know if you if you can do it great you know but most people are not doing that they're just like they there's too much money in this world and they just buy it at double list or whatever. And like that's silly. When you compare things objectively, like remove the names from the dial and just compare an overseas to an Autolist, like they're the same. The Vachron might be better. Like it's for sure not the other way around in terms of quality we're talking here. And so you just like all right, like this guy like cares more about like potentially watchmaking and livability, because as you said, you get three strap options with this uh for the same price at at that the other guys at retail. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Awesome guys. Thanks for doing this. Good to sit down and chat. We're done. We're already done. I'm gonna go uh I'm gonna go get on a plane to Geneva. Dude, I blocked my entire afternoon for this. Well see, he can leave. We'll just keep going. Should I get you guys a six pack? Steven sucks. Yeah. All All right right, fine.. That's it. You guys are off the show. There it is. J |
| Unknown | ust like that. No longer VIP platinums. There we go |
| Unknown | . Up next, we've got my chat with my old friend and the creative director of Drake's, Mr. Michael Hill |
| Unknown | . Thanks so much for joining us. Good to see you. Great to see you, Steven. Thank you for for having me. So so nice to be in the in the your new wonderful offices. Yeah, it's uh it's pretty good here |
| Unknown | . Pretty good here. What a spot. Especially it's chilly outside, sun's out, it's kinda nice and bright and warm in here. It's uh no no complaints. I can't I can't I can't work out whether it feels like you've been here forever or you've just moved in. Well you've I mean you've been a part of the hodinky story since I mean back since I guess what? We were when we were in the We work, when it was two of us in in the little the little closet. There we go. Exactly. It really does. I mean, that was like I guess summer 2012. So it's hard to believe that was like seven and a half years ago |
| Unknown | . But no. No, I mean I I remember you swinging by the old factory when we were when we were the other side of the old street roundabout in London, just uh in in Garrett Street. Yeah, that was uh that |
| Unknown | was pre hodinky days for me. Wasn't pre Hodinky because yeah, we've yeah, I guess we've known each other yeah, since probably maybe a a year, two years before I joined uh joined Hodinky and then came on board and you know, we did the first the first ever Hodinky collaboration was uh Hodinky and Drake's. |
| Unknown | Fantastic. Yeah, those ties. Exactly. No, it's so nice thinking back to that stuff and and uh you know, it's that was one of those things. It was very easy. I you know, you brew you were into it and you know, and and we we uh obviously big big fans of what you guys do. So it came together really easily |
| Unknown | and uh Yeah. It uh I remember we we like we decided we wanted to do some ties and we talked about it and you know, Ben and I obviously are both and have always been big big Drake's fans. And we were kind of like, okay, what do we do? Like, how do we how do we make this feel organic? How do we make this feel real? And you know, it was one of those things where just on like a random like Sunday night, I can't remember what what I was doing. Ben and I got talking and we were like, wait a minute. Vintage Rolex. Like obviously, like duh. Like there's already dots on them. Like a perfect. Let's do these knit ties. It's perfect. It's already there. It's been staring at us the whole time And a quick sellout as far as I recall. Super quick sell out. And uh, you know, those I I remember that was the first moment where we were like, maybe we need a bigger office. And uh when those first boxes of ties arrived with the packaging and everything, and we we legitimately just like didn't have space for it in our tiny little we work. Uh completely. And that's when we had to like we had to move into a bigger space because we we just like couldn't ship the stuff out of there. And at the time we were hand handpacking everything. I I mean our shop team now still hand hand packs everything, but uh this this was a case where like Ben and I were like sitting on the floor in the hallway hand packing ties and uh it was fun. It's amazing. It's a good thing, but it's it's good that it it started there and it's you know essentially making cool stuff with friends |
| Unknown | . Exactly. Exactly. And so nice to, you know, we're just round the corner on Crosby and Broom, literally a minute away. How funny is that? Yep. It's uh it all it all works out. Exactly |
| Unknown | . Stick together. Yeah, exactly. But uh I I want to get into your history with Drake's because you have you have a really interesting connection to the to the brand. So can you tell us a little bit about your sort of like longstanding connection with this with this company. |
| Unknown | I s I suppose it does feel for me like it it all started a long time ago. Um yeah it's it's sort of it it feels like it's always been a part of my life really. Um you know the the the first Drake's tires were made in my father's factory in London. He was a tie maker. And you know, and I used to spend a lot of time in the factory with my old man. He used to go up to up to London to the to his workshop every every weekend, um, certainly every Saturday, and I would often go with him. And I love being kind of in and around that environment, surrounded by beautiful textiles. And um so I somewhat I suppose you know grew up on on the factory floor. Um and I guess it it you know it just sort of seeps in. Um dad left the business, um Michael Drake carried on with the business. I wanted to get into the business having having uh I suppose during my time at fashion school and and on graduating I I I I knew that was the the career that uh I wanted to pursue. And um and I suppose I you know, the reason I knew of Michael Drake was because you know I'd spent time in the factory as a boy and because it's such a niche world, I suppose. Or certainly, you know, at you know it still is, but it at the time, you know, Drake's was a wonderful business, um, but it was very much manufacturing and wholesale. So unless you were sort of connected to that world or a wholesale customer, you wouldn't have known. But of course, to me, it was sort of front and center, because that had always been my world. So I was um, you know, I was I was I was working on Savile Row and and Michael Drake used to make ties for the likes of Huntsman, Anderson Shepherd, some some great established names. And we occasionally would bump into each other. And so I suppose when he was looking for somebody to join him. Um you know he knew that it would it was it would be a tricky role to fill given he wanted someone who could both work with him on the on the sourcing side, on the creation and design side of the product as well as kind of going around the world, you know, working with various wholesale customers selling it into different markets. And yeah. And I guess you felt that given I'd I'd had a bit of an insight into that growing up, I might I might be the sort of the strange fit that might work. And hopefully, you know, that that sort of that proved to be the case. And that was now, God, I guess sort of 16, 17 years ago. Wow. Yeah. Exactly. And the menswear world was a it was a really different place back then. Yeah, yeah it was. I mean it it you know it's you're you're when you're in it, it's it's funny, it I suppose it feels normal. It feels like that's you know how it's supposed to be. Um the internet hadn't s well, I guess it it was it was very much in the embryonic stages in terms of what it can do for a, you know, businesses like ours. Um and and the same social media part of it hadn't even started. So you know we we sort of very much just had our heads down, you know, creating what we felt was was great product and and and trying to work with with others to help us to market that and sell that. We didn't have a direct um link to the to the consumer. And so when that opened up for us, I suppose it changed the game in terms of what might be possible um going forward. So and and that of course has just meant that uh you know things have changed fast and but but I always felt I wasn't scared by that. And I don't hopefully that doesn't come across as as something arrogant. I I felt we had a we had a great product and if we could tell our story and get out there and make you know products that we really believed in, um slowly bit by bit, you know, people would come and we'd be able to, you know, start building something. And and and and thankfully, you know, we're still alive |
| Unknown | . I I mean I think to say still alive is is in in a sort of like classic British sense. I think you're uh you're you're underselling yourself a little bit, but uh and now I'll look at this week's sponsor. It's hard to believe looking back, but in 1968, there wasn't a single self-winding chronographed wristwatch on the market. Just a year later though, in 1969, Hoyer would unveil the Monaco and change the history of sport watches forever. With its square case, blue dial, and left-handed crown, the Monaco looked unlike any watch that came before it. The design put legibility front and center and under the hood was the innovative Caliber 11 movement, which was among the very first self-winding chronograph movements ever made. It was a practical watch for men of style and, today it's one of the most instantly recognizable watches of all time. To celebrate its 50th birthday, Tagware has released a collection of five limited edition monacos, each inspired by one of the decades since 1969. While the colors and designs range from an understated green and silver to a bold red and white, all five stay true to the watch's original character and are powered by a revamped version of the legendary caliber 11. If you want to wear the past, present, and future of racing chronographs on your wrist, these limited editions are just what you've been looking for. For more about the Monaco Limited Editions and the Watch's 50th anniversary, visit taghoyer.com. Alright, let's get back to the show. You started kind of revamping things and and rethinking things at a time that's this kind of like moment that we we end up talking about a lot on this show with with people, which is that era where like the internet and men's clothing and sort of like that enthusiasm all kind of like met at the same time in the the like cur early to mid two thousands. Yep. Uh exactly. And it was that like hashtag menswear era. Absolutely. Uh and and you guys really quickly kind of emerged as as a sort of leader and a sort of like style setter, I guess, in in that era. Sure. Absolutely. I mean it's it' |
| Unknown | s an interesting one that I I you know I don't feel I don't feel like we were looking how aware were we? I sh there were probably others around me possibly who were much more aware of it than I was. You know, I I thought it was a case of you know, do our thing well, crack on with that. There were so many opportunities out there for us in in terms of what we felt we could put together in terms of great product as we saw it. And we just thought if we crack on with that, um hopefully they would they would come and and but I but I think maybe when you're starting like that and and you're believing in what you're doing and you've got a team that that's that believes in that as well, uh it it radiates and it and it maybe maybe it wasn't too contrived. And I think that's probably a good thing, especially coinciding with that time. It wasn't good to come across like you'd thought it through too much. And and I think also, you know, we always wanted to be um I suppose very inclusive as a business. We you know we wanted the door to be open to everybody and we really did feel that. We didn't want anything about our business to be intimidating. It should be, you know, just you know, even if you can't um, you know, afford to buy it or it's uh you know, something that comes, you know, down the line. It's i it's you know, we we wanted everyone to be a part of that. And I'm not for a minute saying we did everything perfectly at all, but it um but that was I think the the mindset and hopefully that attitude um you know helped helped |
| Unknown | us. Yeah. No I think I think that openness permeated not just the the products and the marketing but, also sort of your approach and Michael Drake's approach back in the day as well. I mean, I met Michael, I guess I was maybe 19 or 20, uh and writing for like a menswear blog you know I had my my blog and then if I wrote for a few other people's blogs while I was in school and you know I remember visiting that factory and Mike Michael must have given me three hours, four hours, you know, and on a working day the factories in in in full production and the ability to go in like that and really experience that is you know and he would |
| Unknown | have just bolted those hours on to the end of his day and just and been grateful for the opportunity, frankly, to s to kind of, you know, be the person that can, you know, have a voice you know, for the factory and be the you know, we're lucky to be in that position where we can um, you know, communicate that that story and um and I think um you know we've we've we've we're very conscious of that. It feels you know we feel lucky to be in this position and we and we love what we do and and uh and you know that,'s not everybody can say that. You know, it's it's it's it's tough. It's uh you know it's yeah, it takes it's it's taken a lot of work. Um but we you know, we love what we do. I think the the ingredients are good. I think uh you know certainly not going to sit here and say what we do is the best in the world. I you know we we feel that we you know we don't make compromises and we love what we do. We work with amazing suppliers on the yarn side, on the knitting, on the weaving, on the printing. So and that goes back since we started. And we've got two of our own factories. We make our own shirts. We make our own ties. You know, I would I would hope the ingredients are good. And if the ingredients are good, then you've got this hopefully something real in the business, in the brand, and we and therefore, you know, there's something I think you know, w with the way the world is today, touching on on what you just referred to, Stephen, you you know, we've got to have something real in in something that adds up, um, that makes sense. It's gotta be it's gotta be credible. There's got to be integrity there. And and I think if that is there, then that resonates with the customer, with our customer, and it gives you an opportunity to to to h stay in the game for the for the long term, which is you know what it's all about for us. |
| Unknown | Yeah. No, I mean that that makes a lot of sense to me. And and one of the things I think you guys do really well is this idea of sort of tailoring and sort of the sartorial approach to dressing, um, but done in a way that feels relevant and modern and kind of approachable. Um, you know, the it's okay to wear a suit that's cotton and has some wrinkles in it and absolutely if you want to pull the jacket off and throw a, you know, cable knit sweater over it or you know, experiment with some bright colors or you know, it's it's it's the kind of clothing where you know I was talking to somebody you you guys had an event here in New York the other night uh for the the collection you just launched with the rake yeah uh and I was talking to somebody at the event and it we were saying that it's nice that you can wear a Drake suit to the bar with your friends. Like you can you can go have a beer in a suit and not look out of place. Exactly. It's part of |
| Unknown | part of life. It's it's cool. You want to be comfortable and exactly it's cool and I think it's nice when it go I think it goes from your work environment or or if it's the other way around, you want to be really casual at work and maybe you want to put a suit on in the evening. That's you know, that's that's definitely you know part of who our customer is, and that's great. Um no, I think um you know it it in a way it's I think it's great that it's gone that way. It it's you know it's less of a uniform than it was so arguably there's more options and if there's more options maybe it's it's easier to go wrong. Yeah. But uh you know we're not being too we're not trying to be overly prescriptive about it. Um we're not the only ones who w with the answer. Um, but we're very happy to make our suggestions and and I think we we you know that there's th there can be a you know plurality, you know, within that. Um you know, and that's uh you know, and we see that with our guys in in the store they will they put it together in their own way in a different way and uh yeah hopefully that does kind of make it approachable and and not intimidating and um you know long long may that that continue and and I think you know a lot of that comes from um when I sort of try to distill it down. It's it's you know, we I think we feel like we're we're close to the market, we you know, we enjoy. I've just come from having a look at two great stores. I've just been to see Agesh's uh business um stoffer uh around the corner and I went to uh Antonio Chongoli's uh new place, uh eighteen east. Yeah, yeah. Um and and and that's um you know, that's inspiring. It's different from what we do, but it's great. And and I think and we appreciate that. And so we're close to the products and we're close to the market and and that helps us to, you know, to you know, we do what we do, but we're interested in what's out there and we've you know, we've been over here this week launching something, you know, with our with our new friends at Amy Leon Dore. And that's that's another kind of different take on who we are and what we do. But you know, equally exciting. Yeah. That |
| Unknown | 's something I wanted I wanted to talk about. Can you tell us a little bit about how that came about because I I think anybody who knows Emmy Leon Dor is is gonna think wait what like Drake's and them is uh it's a very different look it's it's a very different approach. But uh it's cool to see two brands like that |
| Unknown | working together. Totally. And again, it was you know, that was easy. Um Teddy reached out and and I think uh, you know, he'd been a customer and And Teddy's the the founder, right? Yep, exactly. And we dressed him for his wedding. And I think he's doing his own thing, which is different from what we're doing. And I think he liked he liked the kind of I guess it's funny,' we're were often sort of looking at how how we can not for the sake of it, but because it's it it makes sense to us to to to look at how we can be casual with our formal wear. I And suppose it was interesting that that that Teddy's anger was more, if I'm not putting words in his mouth, was more a case of, well, you know, I'm I'm I'm interested in the sartorial thing and how that can kind of fold into what we do. Um and it was actually was very refreshing just to, you know, we we we worked on the design side, but actually then at a certain point to kind of hand it over and then look at how they put it together and styled it and for someone to show us our world in a very different light, um in a way that I personally wouldn't have put together just because I'm I'm I'm so I'm in in the Drake's world. Yeah. But so seeing that, I thought was brilliant. And my instant reaction, you know, both when he you know when he when he approached us and then and then when I when I saw the imagery of you know how they styled it, I just I was just instantly excited. I I d I didn't think it through too much. Um I know doing something like that can be potentially somewhat arresting for a certain customer. I I get that and and and maybe that goes against my point of you know we certainly don't want to alienate anybody it's and and we're not but it's uh yeah I I think it's coming from a good place. We were sort of both challenging each other, having fun with it, putting in a different context, and and hopefully just showing a fresh proposal. And I think that's you know, that it's just supposed to be, you know, lighthearted and but but underneath it all, you know, good serious product that's that you can wear and that will last and that's you know great. Yeah, great. It's cool |
| Unknown | to see the the suits, the sport coats, but then styled with the sweatsuits. Absolutely. Which the idea of a sweatsuit with the sort of like Drake's Moogle print reinterpreted as as embroidery is it's crazy. Yeah. It's awesome. And we kind |
| Unknown | a we and and we were sort of quietly hoping for that. It's I guess in the collection this season, in the Drake's collection, we've done a um we've done a three-quarter zip uh top, uh which we made out of Casantino cloth. And maybe that's a sort of slight slightly similar philosophy. Again, we were having a little bit of fun with it. It's you know, this great cloth that you know has I suppose over the last 10 years or so it's become quite a sartorial go-to cloth. And so again, you know, putting that in a completely different context, it's it's fun. And it's and and it's a good thing. It's good to |
| Unknown | like, you know, you're clearly like the whole time people can't see it, but the whole time we've been talking, you have a smile on your face. Like this is this is a fun thing, you know? And like one of the things that that I think a lot of guys, you know, my age and and folks, even like Agesh and Antonio, part of the reason that they're doing the things they're doing is I I think, again, not to put words in their mouths, but you know, all all of these guys who grew up and and kind of came of age during this era where we all got super into clothes, we were all reading about it and discussing it on the internet constantly, trying to get photographed at PT Womo, like this this whole thing. Speak for yourself. I've actually never been to Pity, so I'm I'm out. But it all became so serious. It all became about like you know how how many stitches per inch are on the lapel of your jacket? And how m you know, what is the exact composition of the lining of your next suit? And like it just became so technical and so serious and such a a competition that a bunch of people became disillusioned because it stopped being fun. It stopped being about expressing yourself and it stopped being about living your life. And it started being about this like arms race of whose suit could be more complex and more expensive than the next guys? It gets really toxic. And and I think one of the things that Drake's has done a really good job at is like the substance is always there, the quality is always there, but it's fun and it doesn't take itself too seriously. And if you want to do a bright orange Casantino pullover, you can. And like is every customer gonna want that? No, but some will and and they'll have a good time with it. Totally. And |
| Unknown | when we put it together, we that's exactly kind of how we saw it. Yeah. Um, you know, we had a smile on our face the minute we you know we saw we had s a vintage garment and we had some cloth and we had you know that that weren't in any way related and you know and we said, hang on a minute, what if we and you know and it was kinda you know, it was and we yeah, come on, let's let's make a sample and then you know everyone in in the in the office you know got behind it in the studio and and um and and and we went for that. I mean, you know, th it's it's we take it very seriously, we put a lot into what we make and and we're you know, proud of of you know uh the craft. Very proud. But it's just clothes. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So |
| Unknown | you know. Um I think another area where you you personally sort of do this really well is I mean, you're wearing a vintage tutor sub today, but uh and you're a swatch guy and you've written about it for us before for uh for the magazine but I think that's another area where like you can enjoy a beautiful vintage tutor but you can also put on a multicolored |
| Unknown | swatch and just have fun with it. And and and maybe quite nice to I don't you know put the put the crazy swatch with a formal suit. Yeah. Or put the you know, I don't know how you want to call it the more serious watch, you know, with something more casual. Or you know, it's you can you know it it's all possible, I suppose, you know, in in a sense, you know, forget the rules and just go for it. Um, you know, and I and I'd I'd probably be wearing a a you know, a swatch today if the problem with this watch is if I if I take it off, it stops and then because it's g I don't know what you called it the um the special winding mechanism, but I gotta go forward a month in order to sort it out. And it's too painful. Exactly. So I just hang in there for as long as I can. It's |
| Unknown | all right. It's it looks great. So thank you. Where love of swatch come from? Because it's it's now there's swatch Exactly. Where where |
| Unknown | does this come from? I suppose a bit like all these things, it definitely goes back to the the childhood thing and being at school. And you know, it was I guess so I was started going to school in eighty five. So what would I be in eighty five, seven, eight years old? I'm forty one now. And um I guess it was just one of those things. I went went to a boarding school and when you sort of come back to school you know after after the Christmas holidays or something like that and you know and maybe you know the kids were given a swatch for for Christmas and it you know and every everyone had a slight, you know, had something a little bit different. And it kind of, you know, it it was, you know, one of those things that, you know, boys like that kind of thing. You know, what's that one? Where does it come from? What's it about? And and and then you kind of keep hold of it, and all of a sudden, you know, it takes you back to a certain period, and there's a story there, I suppose. And and therefore the the kind of n the nostalgic thing kind of kicks in. And and I suppose, you know, throwing that into the the sort of the headwind of I suppose that atmosphere, if you will, that you were just referring to, Stephen, about let's say that whole kind of pity m crowd or movement, whatever it was a you know, that sort of kicked off a good few years ago. It's you know, uh it's just quite nice to sort of I don't know, not not disrupt that, but it's, you know, you don't have to, you know, having a beautiful, you know, 1016, I think I think that's the only code I know of uh of any, but I but I I love that watch that you're wearing. And uh you know, you don't you don't have to have that watch. You don't have to aspire to that you can you know do something else and it maybe it's maybe it's a bit dangerous if everybody starts you know aspiring to that and you know so um yeah it's just it's it's sort of having the the f the the freedom should be there if you want it. And yet if you if you do want the amazing vintage ten sixteen, you know, that's okay too. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. I mean I think all you have to do is is look to the the swatch community online and the the Seiko community online, to find that some of the most passionate watch collectors on the planet are not collecting Rolex, they're not collecting Langa, they're not collecting AP, they're not collecting paddock. They're collecting hundred dollar swatches or hundred, two hundred dollar Seiko's. Totally. And they love it. And they love it so much. Well, I yeah. That's a good thing |
| Unknown | . What would it be now? Possibly I don't know, a year or so ago. For whatever reason, I that was it. I was I was going jogging at the weekends and and I I'd go without anything at all. No headphones, no, no, no music, no watch, no nothing. And I probably at a certain point I I got a bit competitive with myself and I thought, well, can I get a do a better time and can I improve on this? And so I thought, oh, and I had this old digital watch, um, but it had run out of battery. So I thought, oh, maybe I'll let me look into this world of digital watches. And that led me to a Casio G Shock. And so I bought a G Shock. And I didn't think for a minute I was sort of scratching the surface of what might be something, you know, a re quite an interesting world. Yeah. And and s you know, it's it that is something you'll you'll correct me, but something equally iconic in a very different way. And I completely. I subsequently went to Tokyo. I went and I I wanted a one that was made in Japan and and now I've I've got it and I love that G Shock. And it's great. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. You know? Also anything that's only available in Japan is especially for like nerdy wh |
| Unknown | ite guys like us. Like that's that's cat hip, you know? Exactly. But not you know, not mega expensive, you know, and um you know, and something indestructible is something rather uh something great about that. So yeah, it it can kind of go across the board, I think. Yeah. Um |
| Unknown | the the sort of like playfulness and the the playing with color that that Swatch does really well is something that I see you, know, whether it's a conscious influence or an unconscious influence, kind of sneaking its way into the way Drake's does things. Yeah |
| Unknown | . Yeah. No question. I I you know I it's just such a it's it's it's a it's a vehicle for um you know for for for lots of good things yeah and um and and there's yeah it's undoubtedly a part of it um it's it's a funny one. know You, I I won't walk into a swatch shop and and see you know, I w I I won't want every swatch in the in the store, you know, by any means. But it's when you know when you see it and it's right and it's you know, the balance is there. Yeah. Um and uh you know, so given given their history, there's there's you know, there's a lot out there to choose from. Yeah. Um so yeah, in terms of kind of in a sense and how it plays into what we do with our clothing and with our colouring, it's you know, yeah, it's it's great. And it's um it's funny, the the we work a lot with a a good friend of mine on the photography side of our business, um James Harvey Kelly. Um and um we used to hang out in London um with uh with a uh an another friend of ours, Patrick Johnson. Um and I guess I don't know how far I'm going. I'm certainly going back, I guess 15 years. And um we all wore swatches. That I don't know. It just kind of it just you know, we'd meet up, go for a drink, we'd all be wearing a different swatch, and it, you know, it just kind of yeah it was just you know we would we were all into it and um yeah so it's one of those things now you know having having kids myself and you know I'll get home and my boy will you know steal whatever's on my wrist and you know I I I kind of enjoy it and I don't have to worry about it. Yeah, it' |
| Unknown | s it's a nice way that like watches can be a again a fun lighthearted thing instead of a thing that's all seriousness and reference numbers and whatever. Yeah. Yeah. No, tightly. I mean you mentioned James, uh James Harvey Kelly. Uh and he over the last couple of seasons has been been shooting your lookbooks and they've become sort of this like cult thing in the in the menswear world where like everybody waits for the next Drake's lookbook. Yeah. How how has that evolved? Because I know, you know, in the again going back to the the sort of like hashtag menswear days, everything was much more fragmented, right? It was about like you'd see an image on Tumblr, it would get reblogged a million times, maybe it showed up on permanent style or or somewhere else. And now I I think people are looking for that like slightly deeper perspective and they want a full look book from a brand that they can kind of like sit down and go through and get a a sense of that like personality and perspective. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. No, it's an interesting one because you never want to take the focus away from the product. So it's so it's you know, and James is great and w and it's and it's you know great and easy working together and that goes back a long way for to when we were, you know, friends, um, I guess, you know, when we were when we were both starting. Um so neither of us sort of had to think too hard about it. Um a very kind of you know natural coming together. When you I guess when you get each other, it's just again, there's not too much analysis r is required. It's um it's it's all very straightforward, which is great. And and um you know, and James is a great clothing guy as well. It's not just uh but I suppose it's it's then goes beyond that as as just as James says himself with photography. He's like, you know, uh when I when I'm busy, you know, taking the Mickey out of him and he's saying, Well, you know, don't get me wrong, I know photography has absolutely nothing to do with photography. Or nothing to do with cameras. It's like and it's kind of, you know, so I think we of course we want to put out great imagery. Um, you know, we don't want that to overtake the product, the clothing, that comes first, that's always got to be the focus. But hopefully in putting it together the way that we are, it's hopefully it's somewhat suggesting that. So it's again, it's we're not trying to be too serious with it. We are spontaneous spontaneous with it. We do kind of on the spot work out what to put with what. There hasn't been weeks and weeks of of analysis that goes into it. I think we are pretty instinctive um and intuitive in terms of what we do. Um and hopefully that comes across and and and we have fun with it. Um and we're going to places that either we know or we want to go to. And it's um, you know, it is hopefully there's an honesty there. I think maybe that's the point. It's, you know, we we you know, we started out shooting guys who were our friends. And I guess we'd continue to do that if we could, but of course, you know, making clothes and samples in a certain size, sometimes they gotta fit the model and all the rest. Yep. Um but I don't think the philosophy has changed. We're still um you know, going about it in the same way. Um and no, it's it's been great, you know, seeing James, you know, get more success um you know, in and of his own right. |
| Unknown | Um I mean one of one of the things I mean you've mentioned trust and you've mentioned this idea of spontaneity and this idea of um honesty. And all of those things, funnily enough, I I think are are amplified by the fact that James only shoots film. Exactly. So you're shooting these lookbooks, you're making on the spot decisions about kind of how to pair things, how to style things. It's it's real organic And then it's it's captured on film. You're not shooting four thousand digital images with a laptop set up and whatever. You kind of have to just trust that it's gonna work out. |
| Unknown | And it's of course it'll go wrong one day, but it hasn't said. And y you know, if it goes wrong one day, phew we'll sort something out. Yeah. I mean it's you know, that's the way he does it. And I it just it feels right to him, it feels right to us. Um I sometimes liken it to how we um how we would uh print something, for example. You know, we print by hand up on up in Mackelsfield, um die and discharge, uh we could print digitally as well. Uh and and we do sometimes. But you know, sometimes the um uh can I say the authentic way of doing it? It it's uh that may well be the wrong word. But it's um it takes more time, it's more dirty, it's uh it's not something you can correct as you're going along, but you you you end up with a finished product that has depth and luster. And I suppose that's you know what we'd go for in our imagery, and that's what we'd go for in our product. It it it makes sense, I think. Yeah. Um and |
| Unknown | yeah it',s one of the places where I I remember and m m maybe now maybe nobody finds this interesting. Maybe I'm just now taking like a trip down memory lane for me, but uh one of the first places I I remember that feeling from Drake's was the sort of cult that evolved around the uh the unicorn print pocket squares. Uh which for anybody who was deep in the the menswear tumbler world in like 2008, probably 2009, you know, Dra Drake's made these scarves and pocket squares that had this sort of like old, almost medieval print of unicorns. Yeah. And you all of a sudden had a whole bunch of like twenty-something year old guys walking around with scarves and pocket squares that were purple and bright red and forest green and all of these things. Exactly. And they were all unicorns. But it was it had nothing to do with the fact that it was a unicorn. It had to do with the fact that they were made in this amazing way and they had this color and this texture to them and they were they were unlike anything that the sort of like hyper-polished, hyper clean, like sort of American fashion world was doing at the time? Totally. And you know, it' |
| Unknown | s um I think it's funny how something like that can, even though it is different from that, it c it can come in and you know, it felt right to us and it I suppose it probably did because it was different. And that came from our our our ancient matter archive, you know, going back decades. And I mean that will always be good, I think. And there's always new and different ways of using it and interpreting it and colouring it and yeah you know and that's it's so it's so I don't know what the word is re rewarding I suppose when something like that resonates. Yeah. and And and and sort of, you know, guys beyond the design studio get it and like it. Um, you know, and it and also I think, you know, it comes from somewhere in tur f from us. It's not, you know, invented overnight. It's something we've done for years. And so it's you know um it's it's come from a good place, I suppose |
| Unknown | we would uh we would say. Well what one of the things, speaking of good places, uh one of the things I I definitely want to talk about is uh you guys just made a big move in London. So the the sort of like Drake's, I would say maybe maybe it's the the flagship store, can we can we call it that? Yeah uh was on Clifford Street. Uh and you just moved around the corner, you're now on Savile Row. We are. That's a big that's a big deal. Yeah |
| Unknown | . Yeah. And and we we loved and loved Clifford Street and that's been great for us. Um we were we were bursting out. So it uh hopefully we haven't bitten off more than we can chew. But uh we we I suppose you know when we started out at Clifford Street we were very much um you know ties and and pocket squares and and scarves very very much kind of centered in that world and we we'd started to to put other products together but I suppose as those other products have worked for us and and we've gone beyond those we haven't really necessarily been able to showcase them as as uh I suppose as well as we would ideally like to. Um so with the uh with the with the lease renewal coming up it was an opportunity for us to kind of challenge ourselves and and kind of take the next step, which all feels quite daunting at this place. It's you know, it we it's gotta work for us. Um we haven't even been been open a week, but we've had a had a really nice reaction, a really positive week. So it feels you know, it it feels right now. Which is funny how you can you can all of a sudden move somewhere and it's very different to what you've what you've had and and admittedly having having been in there for a couple of weeks, you know, helping to put the place together and then coming here almost immediately. So I haven't I haven't had a chance to to spend any time there whilst we've been open. Where um where on the row are you? We are number nine. Okay. So yeah, almost halfway down. On the same, we're next to Dijon Skinner, same side as uh Huntsman, Henry Poole, Norton and Sons Geeves. Um I'll say it so you don't. You're on the good side of the left. It's the north side of it. I'll take that.. Exactly You're on the good side of the rail. Yeah. Well, it you know, and I suppose the units that side are a little deeper. We have beautiful skylights and yeah, you know, a chance to express ourselves a bit more and put it put it together more and and you know, we're not quite finished and that's frustrating being open and not having it, but we're almost there. The guys are itching to open, which, you know, is is so great that you know they're all behind it and enjoying it. And and um and yeah we're we're ready to go for it and give it a try and it's really exciting. Um you know we've been able to you know put some art and sculpture and and as I say have the great skylights and fill it with plants and trees and and uh yeah just just express ourselves a bit more and and and uh you know hopefully hopefully that that resonates and and is a nice kind of blueprint for the for the future going forward |
| Unknown | . Is there is there anything that you thought about moving into the rail where you're like, okay, maybe we need to to maybe there's some things we can learn from the guys around us that we can maybe incorporate into Drake's going forward. Do you do you find that or are you just trying to keep doing your thing? Ah, I mean certainly the latter |
| Unknown | , no question. But I would like to think that the eyes and ears are always open, no question. And and we've got to um we've got to learn and and I think we'd be you know, even if it makes what you do even more different to them, it's it it has an influence as you try to, you know, make your own path. So I I think yeah, in terms of kind of differentiating yourself and and doing your own thing, it just y you want to do something, I would say, that um you know ensures that what we are doing is as unique as it can be. And and I'm dare say, you know, they're thinking exactly the same thing. Um I I think it's interesting because you know I remember being a little confused when I when I first um when when I when I came across Michael Drake as an adult and there he was in in his his you know Drake's tie and Hank and and and that was very much you know his his you know he wore it as only he can, and that was very much his look, and that was very Drake's. That was Drake's, of course. But you know, he'd wear it with a very soft handmade Neapolitan suit. And that kind of initially uh as a as a you know, as a 20-year-old kid, it kind of it threw me. I thought, hold on, this is interesting. So, you know, Michael's supplying the best people on Saville Row, and yet he's not wearing a Savile Row, not wearing a suit that's handmade on Savile Row. How does how does that work? And I suppose as I got deeper into what Drake's was about and I realised that there was a lot more to it than I initially thought so you know he was working very closely with Italians and Japanese and Americans and there was influence coming very much from an international perspective and he was very keen to show how something uh very British could work with something you know very Neapolitan and put that together and so put that very you know soft, comfortable look together. You know, that of course influenced where we wanted to take our our ready to wear and our tailoring. That that felt that felt right. And so, you know, we weren't on on Savurroe initially, but you know, to do something as I say, very different to what they were doing. I mean, you know, we love what they're doing. It's that they're there's some amazing companies doing wonderful things and that's been the case for years and we absolutely get that we are, you know, the new boys just starting out. Um and and you know, we have to be uh you know very uh respectful in that regard, and I and I think we are. But you know, we we knew we wanted to do it differently. And of course, you know, w we see a uh you know a lot more of that kind of soft look around these days. But you know, it's nice now to be on Savile Row and to be doing that. That's you know been our thing. if And that if that means you know we're selling a suit on Savile Road, the traditional heartland of you know the great British suit that has you know exported itself all over the world, but you know, we're depending that in a hopefully in a you know in our way and a fresh way that goes on for decades to come, then is hopefully isn't that a great way of Savile Roe continuing going forward and and making suits that are relevant for guys for the future when maybe certain guys, you know, wouldn't necessarily want to wear, you know, a very, you know, stiff, smart suit. So, you know, um not that that can't look great as well. So No no no. But al |
| Unknown | ong along those lines, do you do you think there's anything that maybe you guys are doing on the row that that other people can learn from that, you know, might spread its way out from from number nine and kind of make its way whether it's style or whether it's it's approach or the way you deal with customers, do do you think you can kind of make an impact on this this very old school institution? Let's see. I |
| Unknown | I uh it It's a very good question. No, no, no, no, no. It's such a good question. And it's and it's and it's really interesting, and it of course it has crossed my mind because in a sense Savile Rose being bigger than any one of its constituent parts. And and that's brilliant. Um God, uh you know, I I have to be careful about uh and realistic about who we are and where we are as a business right now. And obviously, you know, keep keep that ego in check. It's uh let's see in time. We step by step. And and you know, I'm not gonna say for a minute that we're gonna do that and uh but are we are we I think we believe in what we do. We've got great people in the company. They want to do more and go forward and get the best out of themselves, like you know, so many of us do. And we're only gonna be able to do that if we can keep moving forward. And that means we've got to challenge ourselves, do great work, build our business, and bit by bit, you know, build on what we've got. And if that takes us, I think that if we if we you know, if we are um you know careful and and realistic and and you know in in touch with the whole process and very critical of ourselves, which I think we are, then um then we can we can build something meaningful and and we would love to do that. But I'm not gonna sit here and say, you know, that that we're definitely gonna do that. You come back and tell me where we've got to in you know a little bit down the line and you know and you'll tell me. You'll be the judge of that. Everyone will be. Not you know it's not for me to say. Sounds like you got a plan though. Yeah. Yeah. Well it's I I think it's a bit of a balance between on the one hand, you know, you've you've you want to be and and I think we are, you know, very spontaneous in in many different respects. But I think there also has to be some sort of a plan. I don't think it's you know, it's sort of not fair on, you know, people who, you know, join the team if, you know, I've got to deliver for them just as others in the everyone in the business has to d deliver for each other and and uh, you know. So I s yes, I would concede that. Perfe |
| Unknown | ct. Well thanks for thanks for joining us. It's always a pleasure to see you. And uh yeah, we'll have to we we've got some more uh Drake So |
| Unknown | Din Thank you, Sarah |
| Unknown | . This week's episode was recorded at Hodinki HQ in New York City and was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show, it really does make a difference for us. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. |