The 10 Most Influential Modern Watches & A New Kind Of Watch Club¶
Published on Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:00:05 +0000
We discuss some serious horological reporting from The New York Times and how to create a truly 21st-century community for watch lovers.
Synopsis¶
This episode of Hodinkee Radio features a deep dive into ten watches that have shaped modern watch design, based on a New York Times article by Victoria Gomelsky. Host Stephen Pulvirent is joined by James Stacey and John Brozek to discuss watches from the 1990s onward that have influenced contemporary watchmaking, including the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore, Lange & Söhne Lange 1, Vianney Halter Antiqua, F.P. Journe Chronomètre à Résonance, Richard Mille RM001, Urwerk UR-103, MB&F HM4, Bulgari Octo Finissimo Tourbillon, and the Apple Watch. The discussion explores how each watch represents different aspects of innovation, design philosophy, and cultural impact.
The second half of the episode features an interview with Asher Rapkin and Gabe Riley, childhood friends and co-founders of Collective, a West Coast-based watch enthusiast community. They discuss their journey from casual watch fans to creating a community focused on authentic connection rather than commercial transactions. The conversation covers their unique approach to watch collecting, the differences between West Coast and East Coast watch culture, and their collaboration with Zenith on a custom El Primero chronograph designed specifically for their community. They emphasize creating civil discourse, meaningful relationships among collectors, and working directly with brands to create watches that reflect their community's aesthetic preferences.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Unknown | Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Pulverant and this is Hodinky Radio. Our guests this week are two guys named Asher Rapkin and Gabe Riley, and they're the founders of a new kind of watch club based on the West Coast called Collective. It started as a Facebook group, but it's evolved into a whole lot more than that. They do meetups and they even collaborate with watch brands. They brought their first watch by, we got to check it out and we got to chat about kind of what it means to be a watch enthusiast today and how these two childhood friends have taken their shared passion for watches to make something pretty special. But before that, I sit down with James and John to talk about an article that was published in the New York Times last week about the 10 watches that have shaped what's on your wrist today. We look at these 10 watches, all from the 1990s and newer, and kind of examine how each of them has had an impact on watch culture today. We also talk about the watches that didn't make the list that we might have included. And if you have suggestions, let us know. Visit hodinky.com, leave it in the comments, hit us up on Instagram. Uh, I think there's gonna be a lot more to this conversation down the road. So without further ado, James, John, and myself talking about the 10 watches that changed what we wear today. This week's episode is presented by Grand Seiko. Stay tuned later in the show for a look at one of the four watches from the new seasons collection, which is exclusive to the U.S. For more, visit Grandseiko.com. Hey guys, what's going on? Not too much. How you doing? Um pretty good. Pretty good. How about you, James? Yeah, no complaints. Yeah? Happy to be at the office always. Yeah, we got you here what this weekend next week? Uh yeah, I'm around. Alright, I think that means people are gonna be hearing hearing a lot from James while we got you here. There you go. Uh so we're here to have a chat about an article that was published in the New York Times the other day. Um you know, the New York Times actually covers watches in a pretty regular way for a kind of like big major publication. They talk about watches a lot, and they have some great watch writers, one of whom is I think a friend of all three of ours, Victoria Gamelsky, who wrote this article the other day published on October twenty sixth. Uh and the article is called Ten Watches That Changed What's On Your Wrist. Uh and this kind of made the rounds in our internal Slack and I was getting emails and text messages about it from people and thought it'd be fun for the three of us to kind of sit down, go through the article, and kind of weigh in ourselves. Good idea. Yeah. So I mean, you know, full full disclosure, Jack, our uh fearless editor-in-chief, is quoted in the story. Uh this guy Eveld, who used to write for us, is also quoted in the story. And basically everybody else we know in the watch industry is quoted in the story. Victoria did a pretty great job recording. Yeah, really |
| Unknown | nicely researched and like I think like you could you we can pop we could pick other watches and I'm sure we'll get to that. She didn't really miss anything. Nothing like str |
| Unknown | like of strong, strong note. Yeah, I mean I think she in terms of like what you're looking for and or it's a good also kind of like from a design standpoint, the influences that are you know prevalent today are all accounted for in these ten watches, I would say. Yeah. So the the kind of |
| Unknown | like the conceit of this, right, is that I mean the the opening line is what does contemporary design mean in an industry that perennially looks backward? And that's that's a good question to ask. I mean watchmaking is a lot about heritage, a lot about yesterday. Uh you know, we think of kind of like the golden era of watchmaking being the the sort of like mid twentieth century. Uh and this article is not about that. So she said, you know, talking to people, she kept hearing about the tank, the speedmaster, the Daytona, the Royal Oak, the Nautilus, and like these things range from being from the you know nineteen teens in the case of the tank up through the seventies in the case of the Royal Oak and the Nautilus. But she wanted to know what what was going on today. So the idea was to look at kind of the modern era of watchmaking, uh essentially the last quarter century, like post quartz crisis, like late 80s, early nineties up till today. Uh and so I think what what what I want to do here is let's walk through the 10 watches. Um let's just give our takes on on these 10 watches. And then at the end, I want to get your opinions on if there's any watches that Victoria included that we don't think should be included, uh, or additional watches that maybe could have taken taken the place of of one of these. You guys game? Absolutely. Yeah, let's do it. Alright, let's do it. Number one. Uh starting off these these are chronological by the way. Uh number one in nineteen ninety-three is the Autumn RPG Royal Oak Offshore. It's a pretty pretty good place to start. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. What do you guys think about the offshore? I mean I think it's a hugely influential watch. And um I think it's uh it's interesting. I you know she makes the point that uh we will often point to Panorai as the as the watch that kicked off the larger watch trend that we saw really become quite a thing uh not this decade but in the decade prior. But it was in fact uh it was in fact the AP's Royal Look offshore in ninety three that uh was there first. Um |
| Unknown | yeah I mean the offshore was forty-two millimeters wide and fifteen millimeters thick in nineteen ninety-three. Like that's the era when like, you know, Blanc Pon, who was kind of at the like forefront of the mechanical watch revival at that time, they're making like thirty-five millimeter |
| Unknown | minute repeaters, you know, like that that is a very different thing. |
| Unknown | Yeah, it was big and it was early. I mean there were of |
| Unknown | course bigger Panorai's earlier on, but the real revival of Panorai didn't come uh toward later in the nineteen nineties |
| Unknown | . Yeah. I I think that it's it's interesting to consider the idea that especially with this list, and maybe we could find a couple others, but especially with this list in regards to watch making, so maybe the we'll eventually get to what's the last watch on this list and it's hard to class that in the same realm of watch making as the rest of these. But I think what's on here is a really interesting cross section of what and Steven you can probably correct my concept of postmodernism but I, think especially if you talk about the Rue, the Royal Oak Offshore, one of the first truly postmodern watches. I would agree. I I would totally agree with that. That is uh good use of postmodernism, Jesus referential. Yeah. No, exactly. Well the concept that the it's it has merit in its existence, not in its reference to other existences. Yeah. Which is a that's a oversimplification of postmodernism, but it's also that is effective in keeping this conversation moving forward. Um I I find that to be a fascinating decision and and a really interesting watch to open this with, not only because of nineteen ninety-three, and a lot of the watches on this list come quite a bit later than that, but also at a time where I mean that like there were a lot of brands doing things that they had done before or just trying to stay alive. Yeah. And this is this is this is a brand looking almost exclusively forward. They're holding on to a name, Royal Oak, they're holding on to a Genta case shape. Yeah. But really issuing a lot of what Genta built into the Royal Oak. Something that felt right in the nineties. |
| Unknown | Yeah, and I mean I I happen to be lucky in that I I know Emmanuel Gate, who's the designer who designed this watch, right? Incredible. And I've I've talked to him about like so what happens when you get this call and they say, like, we want you to do something inspired by Genta, but not Genta. Like it's gotta be its own thing, but it also has to be a royal oak. Uh and he's he said that it's it's a tough design problem just as a designer, like that as a difficult brief. But his own sort of like approach to watchmaking is is really evident in this. You know, he grew up in a in a watchmaking family. His father was a freelance watch designer, worked for all the big brands. I probably can't name them for like legal reasons, but if you're thinking that name, almost certainly. Uh and Emmanuel said that like the thing that frustrated him about watch design, you know, coming out of the eighties is that everything went safe again. Uh and he hates that. Like he he's one of those guys who like he wants to shake shit up and he wants to kind of like blow people's minds and and make people think. Uh and I think that that's kind of like a perfect synopsis of what the offshore was is it was like, oh you you think you know what a luxury watch is, like fuck you, no you you don't know like I know what a luxury watch can be and I'm gonna show you that um and I I think you know I think there's an argument that that the offshore is the first watch of the like modern era. Um which is why I think it's such a great, great place to start start this list. So a year later, we'll go to the next watch. Uh a year later, nineteen ninety four, uh, we get a watch that is very, very different, uh, which is the Langanzona Longa 1. Um Langa, obviously a Langanzona started, kind of was reborn in 94. There's this famous press conference that's almost become I mean, it is real, but it's become almost like apocrypha in the watch world. People talking about having been at that press conference and and whatever. And they released four watches, the most famous and I I think at this point we can call it iconic, despite me sort of having a knee-jerk reaction against that word. Uh we get the Longa One. It's again, unlike any other watch. I mean there's nothing out there at the time, anything like the Longa One |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I mean there's I I'd say there's no watch out there with a b |
| Unknown | ig date that's better kno Yeah, I think that's probably true. Otomar Pigay surviving the quartz crisis and knowing that they have to do something to remain relevant. And then you have a the alm like in many ways the antithesis to the same concept but born of a similar era, just from a different part of the world. It's a different sort of thinking about luxury. It's a different sort of thinking about tradition. And they wanted to respect tradition, but they didn't have something to look back on that strongly. They didn't have a royal oak in their pocket from the mid seventies.. Mm They they they had had to go to do something new. They had to do something new and and and I would say this is of especially on this list, this is one of the most traditional watches. Yeah. But as a idea it's one of the flat out youngest. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Yeah. It's traditional but it's but it's also new, which is a really |
| Unknown | really hard thing to do, I think. Yeah, I agree. Uh very German. Very German. Uh one of my favorite things about this watch that does not get talked enough about is the way these elements are laid out, so you know, people who know my my taste will know I own almost exclusively time only watches, like a date is about as complicated as I I get personally. Uh I happen to love the longa one and there's so much going on in this watch. You know, it's it's you have the hours and minutes in in a large display, you have a sub-seconds, you have a large, like, you know, arc uh retrograde power reserve indicator, and you have the big date. There's also branding at the top, there's some text at the bottom, the double fader house text, uh, there's a button sticking off the side of the case. Like there's a lot. Uh, but one of the reasons it works so well is that uh the way the elements are laid out is actually a golden spiral. Um, and it's it's a real golden spiral. It's not like what Patek does with the ellipse where they say it's inspired by the gold golden ratio, but like it's not actually those proportions, which is a whole other thing for me to scream about a whole other time, but uh part of the visual harmony of this dial is that like it's actually rooted in like, you know, millennial concepts of like what works and it does. Like it does just work. Uh I I think I don't know maybe |
| Unknown | it works a hundred in my opinion as well, it works a hundred. Gorgeous, it's collectible. Old, new, they they all kind of stack up nicely against each other. There's some really special ones, which we have a post that went up earlier this week. Oh yeah, we'll uh we'll link up to that to Ben's uh I highly recommend uh any any time that Ben wants to write about the long of one that's definitely worth reading. Yeah I mean every day. One one of my absolute favorite fine watches. I would I would absolutely aspire to own one one day. I think they their their modernity r is also reflected in how wearable they are. They're just the right size. Jeans and T-shirt, no problem. A suit, no problem. It it's just a it's it's a it's a clever thing, it's a beautiful thing and and of course it's really beautifully made. Longa one with the t-shirt is such a boss mov |
| Unknown | es. Oh I love it. Oh yeah, for sure. Uh all right, let's go to watch number three. We're gonna jump a couple years ahead, nineteen ninety-eight. The Viani Halter Antiqua. Uh this is a watch that it's pretty polarizing. Uh I'll admit the first time I saw this, I was like, what the hell am I looking at? Uh but I've I've kind of kind of come around. What do what do you guys think? What are your kind of like knee jerk reac |
| Unknown | Uh I mean I to me this this watch uh it's it is a it's an iconic um independent watch for sure. And I see it as kind of uh uh in in some ways a precursor to the world we see today, which has many, many uh independent watch brands and that are known well. Um you know, this is a watch that um is it looks nothing like a traditional watch, you know. Yeah. It's uh it is a totally original design, it's a totally creative thing. And um I think he kind of flipped the idea of what a watch could look like on its head. And that was so important to um, you know, fostering the kind of environment uh for independent watchmaking to move forward and to be what it is today. So it you know for those reasons I would say yeah it definitely deserves to be on this list |
| Unknown | . Nice. How about you James? Yeah I I remember I'm and I'm blanking on what the publication is called, but I remember before there was a lot of um like reference grade material easily to find on the internet. I used to go to chapters, which is you know like in ingo a bookstore in Canada, and annually they would put out one of these big it was like a catalogue basically. Do you guys remember these? It would have like almost every brand you could imagine. I'm sure the brands had to pay. |
| Unknown | Before the I mean before all all of the all so many watches were so well documented on the internet, you know, not just on our site but on others, those annuals were like indispensable tools. Agreed. If you wanted to learn about watches. And they had the prices. They had the prices. Exactly. You could see you, you could see you know which movement was w in each watch, and it was Yeah, they were they were and they they still |
| Unknown | are fantastic things. Fully agree. Rip wristwatch annual was rad, but I remember and and I think it wasn't the normal annual one that came out. It was a special one that had maybe more avant garde watches or or something else, 'cause it also had a um a Zenith Defy, one of the really early like the the late nineties, early two thousands, the really wild ones, like red case and like a weird open heart dial. You m might remember the one I mean. Yeah, yeah, I d |
| Unknown | unno the ladies, uh El Primeros often had the the those that kind of opening. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that was from a different era of Zenith. Absolutely |
| Unknown | . No, that was like the Tyrianitov. Exactly, yeah. And um I remember getting that and it had a uh a piece on the uh Antiqua in it and and just being blown away by what it was looking at, and then to find out use like a relatively conventional movement and it was about having, you know, isolating the displays and and it w just seemed so thoughtful and so uh left field at the same time. Uh I mean it had an impact on me now or it had an impact on me then and and then I think I've only ever seen one in person. It's quite a bit smaller than I expected. Yeah. Uh the displays are really tiny, especially the uh the year display and uh really really cool and and even now they no longer feel modern, but they didn't feel traditional when they came out either. It's kind of interesting.be May maybe the most steampunk wat |
| Unknown | ch ever actually. Agreed, yeah. I this is a watch I agree with you. The first time I saw one in the metal I was like, wow, this is small and kind of wearable and like you know, it's it's not a watch. It's like a watch-sized thing. Yeah |
| Unknown | . Uh but it sounds silly to say, but it means like I think if you if you if you've only ever seen a picture of it on a big monitor or even on your phone, it's much smaller than it shows up on your phone. It's a again, it's a stupid thing to say, but it's a watch sized item. It's also very three-dimensional |
| Unknown | . It doesn't come across in a in a flat picture how the sort of like the steps of the different displays and the depth between the crystals and the dials and the case back, like it's all it's all very three-dimensional. Um but what what kind of brought me around on this watch, because the first couple times I saw it, I was just like, this is not for me. This is not like I I get it, but I don't get it. Um but there's a lot of people who I really respect in watchmaking who have said like this is the watch that changed everything for them. And they've kind of convinced me. So I mean we we did in in our you know a previous issue of the magazine in volume four, the the Hodinky magazine. Um Max Booser from MBNF, uh former Hodinky radio guest, uh talks about how like this is the watch that that changed everything for him. Um so we have this watch to thank in some ways for for MBNF and all the countless people that Max has then inspired. But also like Eric Koo, who, you know, again, multiple time uh Hodinki radio guest, uh, and like somebody who in in many ways, has extremely classic taste in watches. You know, old Cartier, old Rolex, old paddock, you know, modern stuff like or crivia, like really like high-end traditional watchmaking. Uh like this was the first crazy watch he ever bought, and like he wanted this forever. And you know, it was kind of a symbol to him of of kind of having made it and arrived in the watch world. Um and after talking to those two guys who who obviously have very different perspectives on this industry and and a handful of other people, I've come around. Like I I get it. I I don't think I'd wear one. It's not my thing, but uh I gotta say I think it belongs on this list. I think if we look at it kind of a lot of the people who are pushing watchmaking forward, they're saying that this inspired them and and for that alone, like there we go. Absolutely. So next on the list uh we have we're gonna going back to something a little more traditional uh in 2000, FP Joran released the uh Chronomet uh Resonance, the uh mostly referred to generally as the resonance um by most people. Um I love this watch, man. This is one of the first like really high-end watches that I ever got into. And like when I first started-I I knew about it before I uh joined Hodinki, but um one of the very first kind of events I attended uh after joining Hodinky was was a dinner with some Jorn collectors and uh seeing a handful of these all in one place at one time like blew my mind. It was it was a real watershed moment for me personally. And it kind of this this is a watch that pushed me to learn how watchmaking works, not how watches look or can like fit into your personal style, which is kind of how I got into watches. Um but like wanting to understand how this watch worked and why it worked and why it was so important and why so many seemingly smart, cool people uh were into it uh really kind of like pushed me deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole |
| Unknown | . I guess aesthetically this might be one of the more traditional watches on this list. Yeah. In that it it does reflect itself back, it does reflect its design back on the history of of kind of advanced watchmaking. But then it's such a statement and it's such an achievement as a a product that fits on your wrist that the other thing that I find interesting is you either know Jorn or you don't and if you don't it it could you could very easily just mistake it for being a name of a guy that existed in eighteen seventy and started a brand and then it steamrolled into a Patek Philippe or or something like that. Yeah. And it's it's really wild to know that he's not even that old. No. I mean this is this is a man still very much in his prime and operating the business entirely under his own wherewithal and making continuing to make really large scale achievements in modern watchmaking. And and talk about locked in aesthetic. You could see a Jorn from forty feet. And if you know what you're looking at, you don't have to question whether it' |
| Unknown | s a Jorn or not. Yeah. What are your thoughts, John? Yeah, I mean when I s when I see this watch, I just think of, you know, Jorn and what he represents. I think it's like single mindedness, uh a kind of a definite understanding of what one's approaches. Um I mean he you know, he makes not only the movements, but he also designs these watches himself. Yeah. So this is really uh I see kind of uh the singularity of one man's vision as applied to a craft and that's too what to me this watch represents. |
| Unknown | I think there's a level of defiance in this watch too that that I've always respected. Um depending on who you talk to, some people will say that the concept of resonance doesn't exist. So for people who may not know, the the chronometa resonance, the the principle behind it is that the movement has two balances, two gear trains, and they're sort of like they're they keep one another in check by having the two balances extremely close to one another. Uh, and there's the idea of the the sort of resonance effect that they without touching will impact one another and essentially like eliminate variation. They they'll keep one another accurate. Some people think this is hokum, some people think it's a pure scientific principle it must be true. There's actually no like definitive answer to that question. It really does depend who you ask. Uh, and I think Jorne's decision to make like one of his flagship products, this thing that like a lot of people think is total BS and other people think is pure genius is a statement about him and about how he sees his role in watchmaking and a statement about his own his own confidence. And you know, in a world where a lot of watchmakers and watch brands are designed by committee and designed by, you know, marketing strategy, it's kinda cool that he that like he sort of like put a flag in the ground and was like, Come at me. Uh I I |
| Unknown | Yeah, no, I mean I think you're exactly right. That's actually really well put. Technology is uh controversial forward as you know one of his one or two most important uh uh lines of watches. Yeah. U |
| Unknown | h speaking of Kamat Me watches, uh next one on our list, this is number five, so we're halfway through the list. This is the Richard Mill RM001, the OG Richard Mill from uh 2001. I love this watch. What do you guys |
| Unknown | think? Yeah, I mean, aside from there's a a reference in there that compared this watch to a two fifty GTO Ferrari, which is a such a bizarre comparison. The two are antithetical almost. Yeah. Um aside from that one that one bit and way you you and I can discuss that over uh the next drink wherever we find find ourselves in the world. Um but aside from that, I I mean I feel like I'm long on record. Like Resharve Miller is awesome. I love their watches, I think they're crazy. I think they're cool and they're no less crazy or cool. When this one came out than now, the brand is still like pushing to do their own thing. They develop their own aesthetic and you can spot 'em from across the room. You can spot them fake or real on a football player in a game. Like there's something special that people notice and they don't look like a normal watch and they don't represent normal technology. And certainly if if this is the genesis of that of concept that kind of um outpouring of creativity, then absolutely this needs to be respected, it needs to be remembered. I think they're uh a remarkable modern brand and um I might compare them more to Pagani than uh a sixties Ferrari than uh uh but then if that's that the case then then I I love a Zonda and and I love uh I love an early Richard Mill. |
| Unknown | Yeah. I think there's there's no controversy in having a reshard mail on this list. In fact, I think this list would be a good thing I would I would kind of immediately toss this list out if it didn't include an early RM. It's hard to think of a brand that over the last 10 years and especially over the last five years has had like more broad cultural relevance. Uh all right, let's uh let's keep moving on this. Uh let's go to 2001 Ulise Nardan Freak, which I don't know, to me, it feels like when I when I saw that this watch came out in 2001, I was like, huh, this feels like it's been around forever. Uh and I guess it hasn't, but also like that is almost 20 years a |
| Unknown | go Yeah, I mean this it's been around for a long time. It's one of the first watches to use silicon components in its construction. Yeah. It's w it was way, way ahead of its time. Yeah. UN doesn't get nearly enough credit for that. Yeah, I mean maybe may not these days. I feel like they used to, but um they uh you know they're the the guy who revived them, Rolf Schneider has you know he passed away I think it was I think it was uh twenty eleven or twenty twelve we may have to fact check that. But it's it's been some time since his since his influence has been um you know felt in the watch making world. But um you know what he did with UN was nothing short of incredible really |
| Unknown | . Yeah. This is kind of a love or hate watch though, right? I I think so. I I I'm largely I would say with a lot on these lists, it doesn't matter if you like 'em or you don't like them. The list stands on its own, and this certainly the freak is is a a modern avant garde watch. It's one of the first that would come to memory. It's nearly twenty years ago, so it's like we're now cresting into it not being that modern. Yeah. Um and and I think that aesthetically there's not really much that looks like it. Functionally, it's fascinating to have so much of the movement be also part of the time-telling mechanism, the display. And uh and then of course the setting without a crown was a pretty big deal then. And and if you're gonna if you're gonna have a a long of one simply because of its age and long as relative youth i in their current facet, there's no way you can build that without having the freak. So |
| Unknown | yeah, I gotta admit, I was I was kind of skeptical when I first saw this watch on the list, and at the very end of Victoria's uh comments on this watch, she quotes Jack, and Jack's quote is uh single-handedly the freak inaugurated the era of the superwatch me,chanically sophisticated, visually arresting, unapologetically exotic. I I honestly Jack Jack convinced me. Like I all I had to do was go ten feet from my desk, twenty feet from my desk, and like there's the evidence. Uh I think he I think he won me over there. Cool watch. Yeah. Uh next up we have another cool watch that I I also think is important in a similar way, which is the Urwork uh UR103 uh from 2003. Uh Felix Baumgartner and Martin Fry are two of the coolest people in watchmaking. Like I I absolutely love those guys. Um they were in the office recently and I was traveling and I was kind of crushed I didn't get a chance to to catch up with them. Um yeah this is Erwor's another one |
| Unknown | . Like they they done change the game. This is a watch that uses I guess like planetary gears uh in its it's a planetary display, which is not something new, but the the presentation and the way that they packaged it um and the way that they developed Urwork uh as a brand around this concept is really nothing short of phenomenal. |
| Unknown | Yeah, I think in in the way that the freak kind of inaugurated. Well, let's let's go back even further down this list, right? Like let's go. The Antiqua is a watch that it looks like a watch, it feels like a watch, but it looks and feels like a weird watch. Um The Freak looks like a watch on steroids, like it's totally like just maxed out. It's super mechanically interesting. It's a little big, it's kind of like in your face. This is one of the first watches that doesn't look like a watch. Like if you're a normal person and you see this and you have no idea what you're looking at, you're you're like, what the hell am I looking at here? How do I tell the time? Why is like most of it metal and covered up? Like where's the face? Like this is a watch that like forces a conversation. Uh and I I think that's where Erwork uh I mean this watch came out in two thousand three, Urwork started in ninety-seven, so you know, they'd already been around for for six years, but um I I think this is this is another like watershed moment in the watch that doesn't look like a watch. Uh which is how we get a lot of what we would call like oat relogerie |
| Unknown | today. Absolutely. I don't I don't really have that much to add. I I think Griffir's incredible. I really love what they've done since then. Like they've continued on the same path. They've refined the same idea. You now get these rotating satellite hour displays and crazy uses of luminous technology and amazing um uh uh materials use in the case, they've become smaller and lighter and never never you're never gonna see one and not be happy to see it. Agre |
| Unknown | ed. Uh similarly to that, that's a great way to get to the next the next watch, which is uh 2010's HM4 from MBNF. Um I have said many, many times on the record that the thing I love about all of MBNF's watches that unites everything, all their watches, all their other creations, is the first time I see every one of them, I smile. Like just reflexively. You know, they they are fun, they bring joy to an industry that is sometimes very self-serious and sort of like nose in the air. And this is like, hey, look, we made something cool. Like it's it's less about it being luxurious, it's less about it being mechanically complex. It's less about it being a first or interest It's just like, look, like doesn't this make you happy? And then all the other stuff is there. It's all there. The substance is there. But it's just like, look at this thing. It puts a smile on |
| Unknown | your face. Isn't that nice? Yeah, it's completely wild. You know, my favorite thing about this watch when I look at it is you know you just you have these two jet engines. It looks kind of like the last watch we talked about, nothing like a watch. It's so out there, but then you look at the dial for the time display and it's got the little fleeger triangle at the top. Oh yeah, it's just the pilot's watch. Yeah, it's like it's it's so on it's the |
| Unknown | least traditional take on like one of the most tr like the original wr |
| Unknown | istwatch, essenti and this is a great choice. I I I see these and all I can think is these are it's personality in mechanical form. Yeah. So the watchmaking always speaks for itself. You already know the name that Max has picked to work with or or integrate with or or the designer, but what but it's how they bring everything together into a unit of something that kind of transcends just being an interesting design or being something that doesn't look like a watch but is. Or if it's a crazy clock, it's also a jellyfish that you can hang from your ceiling. Like it's just raw personality, and and they're they are so much fun and often just an incredible uh breath of fresh air. Yeah, ag |
| Unknown | reed. Um, next up, uh, we're getting close to the end. We have two watches left. Uh the Bulgari Octofenisimo Turbion from twenty fourteen. I mean, of course. Like I this is another one where I read this and I'm like, duh. Mm-hmm |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I mean I I I think the the octofinissimo range is an incredibly popular one uh today. It's certainly very popular uh at Hodinki. I think we all we all uh love the octofinissimo. This uh torbion I think when it came out was the thinnest this was this the th |
| Unknown | innest torn uh torbion I believe I believe so thinnest automatic thin thinnest turbion and it has three ye |
| Unknown | ah. It's a beautiful thing. It's Bulgary did a very nice job |
| Unknown | Yeah, so those those three records were it was the thinnest automatic watch, thinnest automatic turbine, and the thinnest turbion. Yeah. Not uh not too bad. Um yeah, I mean on the design side, I mean Fabrizio Buenamasa, who's who's the head of design for Boulgari, Bulgari Watchmaking? Uh is the man. He's he's the coolest dude. Um he's amazing. Uh he's Italian, he thinks like an Italian, he doesn't have the same sort of approach that the traditional Swiss designers have. Uh and I love it. And like he's you sit down with him and he always has a piece of paper in front of him and like you ask him a question, he draws you an answer. Like he can't just like talk to you about it. He has to show you. Uh which I love. Um I j I just got to see him a couple weeks ago um for Bulgarian launches in in Shanghai. Um and I find every time I sit down with him, like even if I'm not interviewing him for a particular story, I just want to sit and talk to the guy. Like I I learn something about watchmaking every time I talk to him. Uh and I feel like every time I pick one of these octo watches up, the Octofenesimo watches, whether it's this turbion or the time only in titanium or the time only uh in ceramic or chronograph GMT. Chronograph GMT, like whatever it is. Uh I pick one of these watches up and I just I want it more than the time I picked it up before, which is a a good sign, a dangerous sign, but a good sign. Uh you know, and these watches get a lot of I won't say flack, but it's it's you know, they it's always part of the conversation that, oh, it's you know, it's thin, it's angular, it kind of is based on a genta design. On a bracelet, is it like another Nautilus uh Royal Oak competitor? And I would say no. Like I think it's I think it's genuinely its own thing. And like I I will will defend that pretty arduously. Uh that's that's probably a topic for another |
| Unknown | time. But I think it's definitely competition to those brands because it's excellent. I mean you're if if we're talking about competition, these are great watches that deserve to be in the running if you would like a watch that doesn't look like other watches you own or if you but it's not a Me Too product. It's not a Mexican Me Too product. and really establishing the brand as a forward thinking like in in twenty years we may look back at the the development of this line as the Royal Oak Offshore. Yeah. The next wave of a brand that was looking forward instead of just exclusively backwards. |
| Unknown | And now I'll look at this week's sponsor. This is a time of year when it's hard not to think about the changing seasons. The air starts to feel crisp, the leaves start to turn golden, and the December holidays are quickly approaching. Over the last few weeks, we've told you about Grand Seiko's special seasons collection, which is only available in the United States and celebrates the unique feel of each of the four seasons. First up was the SBGH 271 for Summer, which has a stainless steel case and bracelet, a richly textured green dial with gold hands and markers, and an automatic high-beat movement. The Fall Watch, the SBGH273, has the same case bracelet and movement, but with a stunning blue dial that nods to the color of the sky on a cool, clear autumn night. The winter and spring watches, though, are a little bit different. Both have titanium cases and bracelets paired with innovative spring drive movements. This means that the second's hands glide smoothly over the distinctive beautiful dials. The SBGA415 for winter has a gray dial with a modeled pattern inspired by snow glittering in the sunlight, while the SBGA 413 for spring has a similarly patterned dial that's a soft pink color, a reference to the Japanese Sakura cherry blossoms that arrive with the warmer temperatures. This poetic big-picture approach to watchmaking, where storytelling is every bit as important as technical excellence, is unique to Grand Seiko and perfectly exemplified in the Seasons Collection. For more about the Seasons Collection and Grand Seiko's other families of watches, visit Grand Seiko Alright, let's get back to the show. Alright, last watch on this list, people are gonna freak out, but they shouldn't. It's the Apple Watch. Twenty fourteen. Again, no brainer. Like you you you have to include that and if you if you disagree with it because it is different in kind from the other watches on this list, like you should you should calm down, first of all. Uh and two, like, if this is a list about ten watches that have changed what's on people's wrists, like the Apple Watch has undoubtedly been the most influential watch of ten, twenty, thirty years. It is the most influential watch on this list. I would say this the Apple Watch has to be the most influential watch since maybe the original Swatch |
| Unknown | . Yeah. Which doesn't appear on this top.ic Timex Indoglow. Timex Indiglow is like the triathlon, the Iron Man ones. Like the you know, nineteen uh nineteen ninety two. I was six when I got mine, so it's nineteen ninety two. Yep. Uh yeah. It's uh G Shock. G Shock, yeah. Also not on this list. Also not on this list, yeah. Um but I think you can't you like you'd make a whole list of watches that aren't high end watch making that also qualify. This is the only one that I think transcends both. Yep. Because I don't think there's many times you guys can correct me if you're wrong, but if you've ever come across a guy who has a long one on run one wrist and an Iron Man on the other wrist, probably not. But you do see guys in our office, for example, with a long a one or a speedy on one wrist and on the other wrist an Apple Watch. Yeah, agreed. Um, you know. I I think |
| Unknown | uh yeah, again, we could do we could do a whole hour long show about the influence of the Apple Watch in in that way, but um I I think it's it's interesting that you know Victoria talked to some like real diehard watch collectors and you get this like, oh, it's not a watch, it's a connected device that happens to be on your wrist. But like I I don't think that's true. Like I think the Apple Watch is a watch. I think it's always been a watch. I think it's a better watch now than it was in twenty fourteen. Um we'll link up to my my latest Apple Watch review. You can get my my full take there. I'll I'll leave that for that. But uh yeah, I mean like in twenty nineteen it looks like, according to Victoria's reporting, that the Apple Watch is going to outsell the entire Swiss watch industry by volume. And when you consider how many risks that means. Like this this is is a a a potent influential cultural force, not just for watchmaking |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I mean every year they continue to add features that make it harder and harder to uh to avoid having one. Yeah totally |
| Unknown | . Um so before we before we wrap up, because we we've run pretty long on this, but uh I just want to ask, do you guys have any watches that you think could have made the list? We don't we don't have to knock anything off the list. I think everything on this list in some way or another deserves to be on the list, but I do think there are some omissions. Yeah. I'm not sure what I would pull out to swap in, but uh what are before we get into mine, what are what are some of your noted omissions? Okay. I would say |
| Unknown | um something from Blanc Pond. I mean Blancpon Blanc Pond came up earlier in the conversation. But I mean the fact that there is uh there is a a thriving uh you know, life around mechanical watches. Um blanc pon has a huge role to play in that. And um that they're not on here surprises me a little bit. You know, some kind of complicated blanc pond, whether it's a seventeen th |
| Unknown | irty five watch or something like that. Okay. Interesting. James, you have any? Uh yeah, I think I I was, and again, I don't I don't think that I would necess I would I don't know what I would knock off this list. I think this is a great list. So I don't mean it as a knock, but I mean honorable mentions, resence. Resence is interesting, yeah. Debatoon? Debatoon interesting. Um, you know, both younger than a lot of the brands that that we're talking about, you know, into the n uh uh certainly ones that include the nineties, unless I have the the age wrong of either of these brands, but I don't think I do. Um HYT was doing is was and is doing things that other brands just simply aren't. Um but I think that would come a lot of these, I think even you could say all three of these, Day Batoon probably owes a lot to VNY Halter. Uh Resence owes a lot to uh just kind of the advances in mechanical watchmaking in general to make that idea possible. Yeah. And then certainly like with an HYT, I don't think you don't have HYT if there wasn't Opus. You don't have Opus without some that we've already talked about on here. True. And it maybe that's a simplification, but like I think you can even if there weren't people in those camps that moved between the parties, you can draw aesthetic lines between a lot of these ones. Yeah, I would agree. |
| Unknown | One other thing I would add too is maybe an IWC or a Zinn or some kind of like military type of design watch because that's a hu |
| Unknown | ge category in watches today. Do you think though that that there were major strides made in the last twenty five years? Like has that archetype changed substantively over the thing. Yeah, but I'm just thinking more about like what's popular and what people are wearing. That's a that's a good point. Um yeah, I have a couple. Um one is the Cartier Bellon Blue uh from two thousand seven. Um I think it's easy to forget now uh since especially in the the enthusiast side we don't talk about the Bellon Blue too much, but like there was a period there from like 2007 to like probably 2010 or 11 where like if you were like a relatively well-off stylish person in like a major city, like especially if you were a woman, you almost certainly had a battle and blue. Like it it was huge. ad The campaigns were ginormous. I mean, it was really like it was almost like Cartier is like push back into watchmaking. It was a huge success. When did that come out? That was like 2007. But uh I think that really like kicked off kind of the modern era of of Cartier watchmaking. Yeah. Um I think the Hubler Big Bang is missing. Honestly like honestly, I might knock off one of the in like more like avant-garde independence from this list. I'm not sure who. Uh I keep going back and forth. Like, it's hard to imagine this list without MBNF. It's hard to imagine it without Urwork. It's hard to imagine it without Ulysses Nardan. But like I don't know. It's also hard to imagine this list without the Big Bang. Like they're |
| Unknown | I mean I think you could argue though that the that the offshore was kind of a it was an influence upon the Big Bang, right? Yeah, but I I think |
| Unknown | just like think about how many people wear Big bangs. Yeah. I mean Big Bang to me is up there with like RM in terms of like most I mean totally totally if you want to think about like the three watches that have probably had the biggest cultural impact over the last 10 years it's probably Richard Mill offshore Or the Apple Watch. Or the Apple Watch. Yeah, |
| Unknown | yeah. True. Different categories, I suppose. But I you know, in the tone of this list, I mean like you know, if the idea is what has changed what people are wearing, I'm not sure I can make the case that Resence is changing what people are wearing. That's true. Um, but I do think that the Big Bang has changed watch aesthetics. I think you actually see like Big Bang and Royal Oak Offshore aesthetic in G Shocks in much more casual things that peop people are buying from department stores, not from boutiques, not from agreed. So the some of the aesthetic effect. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. But there's an aesthetic effect to a lot of what's on this list that does filter down into other watches and into the Apple Watch |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I mean speaking of of watches that are are less expensive, another one I'm not sure this warrants being on the list, especially if we're limiting it to ten watches. I think this probably gets bumped off. Uh but the Swatch System 51 from 2013. Um I think Swatch doing something kind of high profile and mechanical. I I would have to see sales numbers. I have no idea, but I I I don't know. I I think it's conceivable that this has like moved the needle for people in terms of mechanical watchmaking and might be kind of a a gateway for people. I don't know if that's true. I could be completely wrong. That could be like a watch nerd perception, but I don't know. I think it's a it it was at least a watch that came to mind to me as like war |
| Unknown | ranting conversation. I th I the other thing one that I that I wanted to consider and I don't think it has a place on this at all. But if you just want to talk about what people are wearing that feels different than when I got into watches, it's Apple watches because you see them everywhere. Yeah, but it's Garmin Athletic Watches. Yeah. Which I see everywhere, no matter where I go, anywhere in the world, at every airport, everyone has one of these watches. I see Apple watches and I see Garmin Vivo Fits and 925 runners and Phoenixes. I mean just everywhere. Shout out to my wife Laura, uh, who loves her garment. As do I, I have a Phoenix absolutely killer watch. I just like th those are the ones that I think have really captured the heart of the non enthusiast watch appreciator where their last watch was probably a triathlon or G Shock or maybe an old Swatch or something like that, and now it's an Apple Watch or it's a Garmin and it's based on expanding into other aspects of their lifestyle |
| Unknown | . Yeah. So the last one that I want to talk about, uh this again, little nerdy, but uh the Tutor Heritage Black Bay, 2012. Uh you know, one of the biggest trends we've seen in in watchmaking over the last couple years has been this idea of the like faux vintage aesthetic, the idea of bringing kind of like traits back from the heyday. And I I think we can credit the Black Bay with kicking that off. I mean I c I can't really think of a watch before 2012 that had that level sort of like general like cultural penetration. Especially when Tudor came back to the US for US customers, that was a it was huge. It was a it was a huge thing. And like you saw all the guys over at GQ wearing them, all the guys over at Esquire wearing them, you know, all our buddies in the sort of like outdoor tech streetwear, like any guy who was interested in style all of a sudden was like, shit, I want I want a watch that looks like an old watch and you know a lot of those guys now are buying actual vintage watches or buying modern watches that they got into because Tudor was a gateway for them. Um that that to me honestly that and the big bang probably to me were the two the two watches that like it felt hard to have this list feel complete without them. Ye |
| Unknown | ah I I I would I would agree with you. However I would say I think the situation with Tudor was a slightly more complex because that had to do also with the return of Tudor to the United States. That's fair. And I think that's and I think Tudor was just a force. I mean Rolex made Tudor a force when they came back |
| Unknown | . And I think uh Langines owes uh is owed some credit for uh kind of kicking off longines and aurus. I would say tag Tagwars for sure. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Um cool. I think Tudor maybe did it better than other people, but maybe there was already a little bit of a wave forming that they got to the top of with Rolex money and with let's face it an incredible design. It's a great those are great watches. They're killer. They're fantastic watches. And they continu |
| Unknown | e to evolve and uh remain |
| Unknown | relevant today. I mean the Black Bay 58, come on. Yeah, I g I gotta say I'm shocked like again when I looked this up and it was like two thousand twelve. I was like, shit, that's seven years ago. And if you think about the fact that it was it was released at Basel World in March, that was almost eight years ago. You know, we're we're only a couple months away from that being eight years ago. And those watches still look fresh. They look great. Even the original Burgundy black base still looks like still a great watch. Yeah. So cool. Uh thanks Victoria for putting this story together. Shout out to Victoria Gimel. Good read. Yeah, great story. And it's it's really great, you know, for all of us. We love anytime somebody like the New York Times does something thoughtful like this. And it's not just like, you know, watch spotted on so-and-so, some new sponsorship, some new whatever, uh, you know, let's report on the the numbers coming out of Switzerland, but does like a real deep dive into watch culture. Um I think it's a it's a good thing for all of us, you know, it's a good thing to to get anytime my non watch collector friends are texting me links to watch stories, uh that's a good thing. Like if these things are getting on those people's radar, uh I'm I'm a happy person and even more so when it's thoughtful quality coverage put together by by somebody good and hey we got we got some pod time out of it. Yeah go back read the post it's all it's solid. Yeah we'll link to it and uh you should go check it out. It'll be in the show notes and on the post on uh hodinky.com and uh yeah maybe maybe we'll have to do an to do another episode Yeah. Alright. Maybe next time. Awesome. Thanks guys. And up next, we've got my conversation with Asher Rapkin and Gabe Riley of Collective. Good to see you guys. Good to have you here at uh Hodinky HQ. It's fantastic to be here. Thanks for having us. It's not quite west coast weather out. It's uh like gray and cold and misting, but I hope you guys don't regret making the trip out. No, so when I moved from New York to California, like one of the things that I missed more than anything was like actual weather. Like misting, but not humid is my like Yeah. It's my New York dream. Also we're not on fire, which is which is not too soon. I mean no no, I I I w I was not making a joke. Like I I was in LA last week and like got out just in time. Yeah, it's it's it's a thing, man. Yeah. And we live uh uh I live up uh just north of Los Angeles, right up against a hill. Oh it's like beautiful vistas torching. Oof. Yeah. No good. No. Good start though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good start. Good good way to start the show. Absolutely. Um so we've actually actually we've known each other for a little while and we we just met. But uh how did you guys get to know each other? Oh boy. You wanna take this one, Gabe? Yeah, sure. Um so Asher and I both we both grew up here in New York City in Manhattan and um we went to school together. So we met each other in homeroom in the seventh grade. Okay. Yeah. So this is not like a watch friendship. This this is something that goes like way beyond. It didn't start with a friendship. It didn't even start with a friendship. But that again, a story for another time. I think what but watches do figure in it in a in a pretty big way. So although we grew up here in New York, we went to college in different places, we've lived in different in different parts of the country. Um and really especially in the last 15-10 years, one of the things that's kept us close as friends, regardless of where we are geographically, has been like the shared interest in in watches. Yeah, I mean that's one of the that's one of the things that I think, you know, and probably a lot of people can relate. You know, we grow up, we we make these really close friendships in in high school or in college or from home. And then you're twenty one and you like, you know, you disperse, right? Yeah. Right. And uh even though you care about people and you love people and you want to stay in touch with them as life happens, it gets harder and harder. But the thing that keeps you together, and I'm sure like sports fanatics can you know will say the exact same thing is if you're really obsessive about a particular topic, when you see something new, like you're gonna call one person who's actually gonna care about that thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. Because you can turn to the person next to you, you're asking, like, oh man, check this out. And they're like, what are you talking about? Why why are we having this conversation? Exactly. So you're like oh all right, I'll call Gabe. Yeah. And as a friendship persists. I mean not a bad way to stay friends? No. So how did how did you each get into watches? Did this happen at the same time? Did this happen separately? Did one of you ruin the other? I I think it was probably about the same time. I've always been in into to watches, or at least since I can remember. I had a I grew up in the in the eighties with a brother who's ten years older, and um I my first memories of watches were Swatch watches. That was a huge thing. And for him being a bit older than I was, like he you know, he was a teenager when Swatch was kind of came out and was raging and was a cultural phenomenon. And I thought that was cool. Um and then as I got older, um, I got into T the Timex Iron Man. Yeah. And I think that that set me on like my particular taste in watches, which are sort of tool watches, things that are rugged, built for a purpose and can can can really really kind of uh as Timex would say, take a licking. Um and then it sort of evolved from from there. I think the the thing that got me into mechanical watches was James Bond, again, uh you know, the famous Om Omegaega uh C master, uh the Pierce Brosnan. Um because again, it's a rugged tool watch, built for a purpose, can take a beating. And I think that was probably around the same time that Asher got involved as well and he has a great story about about the Omega C master. To his to his humiliation. It must be to my extraordinary humiliation to be to be now shared with the entire global watch community. That's That's what we love. That's what we're here for. So uh actually before I tell you that, just because you're you reminding me of something, so there used to be in New York these these electronic stores um that were just like brick a brac electronic stores. Yeah. You know what I'ming? talk about Like they used to be in like midtown and you know I grew up on the upper west side, so around there too. And you know, you'd go in and and you know you'd be like, Hey, you know, I wanna buy a camera and suddenly they would have like every camera available to you, which is incredibly shady. But you know. Anyway, they also used to sell Casio um they also used to sell like Casio uh uh calculator watches. Okay I feel like just thinking back like I always think of like my dad's watch being like the thing that got me into watches. But granted but honestly it probably was Casio calculator watches. Really should paint a picture of what I looked like in seventh grade. But um back to my story like a complication. Yeah exactly. Back to my story of great humiliation. So um uh growing up as a teenager, um, you know, I my my dad um always wore and to this day still pretty much does wear a uh a beautiful little blue dialed uh 36mm date chest that he bought um uh about a year after marrying my my my mom. Okay. And uh you know, like growing up, like I just I like I I have so many things associated with that, like going on vacation and seeing that or just watching him type or even just like the rattle of the bracelet. I know it sounds nuts, but it's like I very much associate with like my dad, you know, sitting at his desk and writing. And um you know, I I aspired to and always wanted like in my mind, I'm like the watch I will own one day is that Rolex, you know? And um obviously that was uh an extraordinary amount of money and the idea of buying that was like long out of reach for most of my life. And uh I remember seeing when when Gabe when I went to visit Gabe like twelve, thirteen years ago in uh San Francisco, he was wearing uh a a tag, what was it? It was like aqua racer. The Aqua Racer. Actually like a really nice um opera. Yeah, super clean, beautiful. And I was like, That's a badass watch. And I was like, Where'd you get it? And he's like, Amazon. I'm like, Yeah, that's how you buy watches. So I started like Wait, wait, wait, buying a watch on Amazon twelve years ago, thirteen years ago? Mm-hmm. That was like really early buying watches online. Yeah. You know, it was it was a leap of faith. But the price was right. It was right around the the transition um between references on on the Aqua Racer. And so basically I think um i uh some seller on Amazon was using it to dump stock and oh my I couldn't believe I could get an aqua racer for you know whatever the price was at the time. Um and I I loved that watch I wore it on my on my wedding day. So I was inspired by this watch. And uh I was working at uh I used to work in television, I was working at this one network and I left to go to another network and I got like promoted. I'm like, all right, now is the time to get get proper watch. So um feel free to bleep this if you'd like. But I went to the uh Torno Time Machine. Okay. We're not gonna bleep that. That's that's fine. Wait. So I go to the Torno time machine. Okay. And I uh I go in and I'm like, you know the watch I really aspire to own is this Bond, you know, I didn't even know w that's what it was, but this Bond Seamaster, right? Like the sword hands, like beautiful piece. And they had one in the pre-owned box. I'm like, that watch is awesome. And I'm like, how much is it? And they're like, that watch is sixteen hundred dollars. Whew.. Alright And I'm like, it's an automatic watch, right? And they're like, sure. So I so I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Now I don't know anything about anything at this point. Sure is never a good answer. When you ask, when you ask somebody who's selling you something and you ask a question, they're like, yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. That's never good. Oh, and uh it it gets even worse because like I totally bought the watch protection plan too. I mean like I it's just like I walked right through the meat grinder. Long story short, I totally bought like a quartz C Master, which was revealed to me because I proudly like wore it because Gabe and I were going to a concert a couple days later. I'm like, look, I finally got it. He's like, why'd you buy a quartz c Master? And I'm like, it's not oh shit. Right. Now here's what makes that that reference cool. In Pierce Brosnan's first appearance as James Bonzo in Goldeneye, he's actually wearing a quartz sea master. It wasn't until the later films and when he transitioned. Yeah, but I can't retroactively claim that. automatically Yeah, right, right, right. But it's I mean you could. It's still legit. It's still legit. But you know what though? But honestly, I think that this is a journey that probably a lot of people who are buying watches can sympathize with. For sure. Right? Because you go into these stores and you're all intimidated about like what's happening, and it's just, it's, you know, like you look at these things and they're monstrously teeth-rattlingly expensive, and you know, you you trust the person across from you to sell you the thing that you want, and then you find out like, you know, that that the nightmare that you thought was gonna happen actually happened. Yeah. Which in in all honesty I think is like a journey that a lot of collectors go through. You know, whether you like get into vintage and you start buying something and you find out that it's like a Franken watch or you know, and I've been there too. Yeah. And no matter how much you know, like there's always that exploitative opportunity. Um and this is I think this is what has been a challenge as a collector and like someone who's passionate. And honestly, like, you know, part of the reason why Gabe and I like have started doing what we're doing, because we want to break people out of this like adversarial relationship that can sometimes come up between you and the person trying to sell you something. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a tough thing because it's it's bad for everyone. Like it's bad for the whole watch world when something like that happens because like you're obviously made of of sterner stuff and you kind of like stuck through it and you had a passion for this, so like you ended up being a watch collector anyway. But if you were some guy who just walked in and was like, Oh, I want my first nice watch, you buy this watch, you find out it's not what you thought it was. Like most people, that's it. You're never buying another watch again. You go spend your money on cars or travel or cameras or whatever, and you're done. And the whole industry loses not just one customer, but it loses everybody who that customer So it's it's something that like the whole the whole industry needs to get better at as opposed to just it being about one store or one sales associate. So this is a really, really like important and uh topic and something that I think you know just Gabe and I think about because you know aside from what we do with with collective, you know, we're also marketers. Like we've worked in advertising, we work in marketing, like this is this is something that we just think about, which is you know how how to build a relationship, like what persuasion really comes down to. And in my mind, like the places that have fostered meaningful community or built a relationship have generally done it because the the people on the other side of the transaction are genuinely passionate and excited about you know what they're trying to bring to you. And it's yeah you know it they're not like of course they want to sell you something. It's their job, it's their livelihood, like right, it's business. But but there's a distinction between that and like what we would refer to as the like obut sir mentality, you know, where you would like the traditional stilted luxury approach where you walk into this incredibly ornate store and, you know, before you know it there's someone who's pulled something out and telling you like, wouldn't you love to treat yourself today? And a calculator's in their hand, and you're like racing towards a purchase, you know, and you don't want it, that's not why you're there. You know, maybe you're just an admirer and you want to like to spend some time considering and instead, you're just being like shoved down this pipe. And it's a terrible experience. And I think for a lot of people, and I, you know, myself included, like for a lot of folks that were excited about this hobby and wanted to get their hands on pieces to learn about them, to experience them, you know, long before I ever had the means to acquire them, that that cuts those people out. Because if they walk in and and they immediately feel like they're gonna be compelled to try and buy like a car's worth of watch that with money they don't have, not only does that leave a bad taste in someone's mouth, it to your point, I think diminishes and ruins an on-ramp that's critical for bringing new customers into the pipe. Yeah, I mean I I'm in this world, right, and and I've got some some watches and I've I've been around the block. Um I still get freaked out going to a lot of retail locations, authorized dealers. Um and I think y you know, in California it's a little bit different. The vibe in uh and some of the dealers is a is a little bit different, a little less formal. Um I think they tend to be a little bit more open minded because someone could walk in with sweatpants and wal you know, walk out with uh fifty thousand dollar Royal One. Something something insane. Um but when I come here or I go when if we go to London or other places, I I some I frankly sometimes just don't even enjoy it or or I enjoy it 'cause I love watches and I love seeing them, but I feel uncomfortable and freaked out and and like I'm probably one of the people who should feel the the least freaked out. Um so if something isn't quite right. You know, but then if you flip it around, like there are there are some people that like do do it right. You know? Like absolutely. You know, a good example, um uh you know, here in New York, a store that I was like vastly intimidated by for all the wrong reasons is Cellini. Yeah. And you right and I and like I've been and I go in there all the time now, and they're they're like they couldn't be more hospitable, like sweet. They're wonderful people. Yeah, they're great. Yeah, and and they're just I mean, and they've got watches in there that you know will melt your face from MB and F all the way up to like carries, like I mean, these are these are masterpieces. It's a museum. Yeah. And I think they recognize and appreciate that if you walk in there and you're like, whoa, oh my God, like can I can I see that? You know, like I I've never, you know, I've never seen this Grunefeld or I've never seen that Kari. And I'd love to hold it and look at it and feel it and you know, spend some time with it under a loop, and they know that you're probably like not the guy who's gonna be like, you know what? Here's a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. You know, like it's probably like that's probably unlikely. Yeah. But they also know that maybe, you know, 10, 15, 20 years from now, maybe that's a thing you'll do. Yeah. Or like you'll buy something else from them. Yeah, sure. There is that too. Or you'll tell somebody else who can afford it or who wants to afford it and they'll buy it. Like they they love watches and they get it. And I think you guys both touched on it as like what separates the the good guys from the bad guys is just loving this thing, right? Like you have to care. And that's whether you're selling watches or cars or whatever widget you're selling. Like you have to care. If you don't care, people can tell. People aren't stupid. Well, yeah, and what's what's been interesting too is how some of the steel sports shortage has changed the dynamic of this. You know, uh I think that um because now there there are so many of these pieces that so many people want, you know, and like like the watch collecting world has been like so focused on like five, ten, twenty references. Um all the ancillary references that are in orbit of those get like shotgun marketed to people. And I feel like folks, you know, are like, well, I can't, since I can't get that BLRO, or since I can't get that 15202, or whatever, you know, I'm gonna like I'm gonna plunk down the money for a watch I half want because I'm worried that someone else is gonna get it. And then a dealer becomes less of becomes more of a dealer and less of a like, you know, partner in in your in your collecting journey or, you know, a facilitator of community. And I think that this is gonna be a really this is going to be a situation that's gonna really backfire um should we hit an economic downturn. And I think it's also a thing that's going to really backfire from a collecting perspective. Because ultimately the reason you should be buying something to begin with is because you really truly honestly love it, in my opinion. Not because it's, you know, kind of like the thing that you really sort of like, but in gold. Right. Yeah. Or like Can I have this? Uh you can have it in gold. Yeah. Exactly. Which is is something that like actually gets said to people in stores. 100%. If you haven't walked in, if you if you're listening to this and you haven't walked into an AD recently and like asked to see a Daytona, just do it. Like just go to a retailer and see what the reaction is. Cause it's it's pretty appalling depending on where you go. Well, actually, w with the Daytona it's like we probably, you know, like we don't have that in gold either. But hey, you want a platinum day date? Right. You know, and so it's like they're just gonna keep But anyway, my my my point is like those are all watches that are amazing pieces but are in orbit around the watch that the person probably came in to get. Yeah. And if and if that upsell trajectory keeps going, you know, should we hit a point where where the economy is not as robust as it is as it is right now, um, that's gonna collapse. Yeah. And the reputation I think of a lot of those dealers that have been living on this like ladder of like increased value based on lack of availability will be tarnished versus those other folks that maybe, you know, maybe it takes them six to eight months to deliver the piece you want, but like you really got the watch you want it. Yeah. And they really, you know, they really like were able to figure out how to do that. And they they have that long term they have that long term value thought as opposed to near term gain. And those are the folks I think are really going to drive the future community of what we're going to see be successful in my opinion. Yeah, no, no, I I would totally agree. You guys have mentioned it briefly, but I want to make sure we really get into it. Yeah. You are the the co-founders of a thing called the collective. Can you tell us what that is? Sure. Yeah, sure. So Collective is um it's a group of watch enthusiasts. And um there's there's two things we do. So oftentimes a question we get asked is like, well, how are you guys and you know what collective is? How is that different from other watch enthusiast groups or watch clubs or whatever? Um good question. There's there's two things. First is the way we run our community. So we we have a community of people, uh, there's 50 of us right now, and um we kind of get together and organize in two ways. One is in the digital world, we have a Facebook group, private Facebook group for the for the folks in our community. And that's a place where we have discussions like other watch collecting groups do. But the reason we did it on Facebook is because you can't hide behind a screen name on Facebook. You're your you're your true self on on Facebook. And what that does is it means the conversation is generally a lot more civil than what you see sometimes in Instagram comments or comments on uh Hodinky site or or on the watch forums. And that was important to us to have like a civil conversation about watches. And I I actually catch myself when I'm posting in that group, kind of like moderating myself a little bit, because I r have to remember like this isn't the place to be a jerk or hide behind the screen. Yeah, like I I'm I'm I am who I am and and everyone knows that. So that's one way. The other way is we get together in person, but the way we get together in person is is a bit more focused than other collector um groups. So we we tend to get together uh with the group, with a brand and do something focused, maybe it's a dinner with a watchmaker or um a novelties preview or some something like that. So we try to bring things to the the group in terms of events or get together so that people kind of couldn't organize on their own so that it's special. The other way we're different is through collaboration So um d this is a perfect transition from what Asher was just talking about. You know, it can be frustrating being a watch enthusiast right now. Like some of the pieces we would consider like bread and butter. And I know that's not to be taken lightly. These are expensive pieces, but bread and butter pieces to someone who's a watch enthusiast are near impossible to get. And so we we decided to sort of do what, you know, a little bit of collective bargaining, which is put the power of getting our hands on the w on the watches we want in our own hands. Um and so by combining with a group of fifty people um and working with brands, we're able to make watches together with brands we love that that that we love. And so that's how it's different. But the focus on collaboration, I think, is the thing that that makes it really unique. Yeah. And you know, for us it it it was a tough one because you know we we limit what we're doing to membership not not because we want to be highfalutin. I mean what we're trying to do is we're trying to get to know the people that are in the group and then we do intend to continue to expand it. But we we hope to get to a point where everybody in that group knows each other both in person and online. Okay. And that the relationships that are being built there are really are meaningful. And you know, what's interesting, just seeing some of some of the chemistry of what's been happening. You know, like there's a couple of group members who have discovered like a shared love of photography and like they're having sidebar conversations about that. You know, and there's some other folks that um are collectors of some really wild watches that like, and I'm not talking about like crazy expensive pieces, just really like out there pieces, you know, um, which uh some folks, including myself, had never even heard of. And they feel comfortable and confident being able to share and and and you know post these because it's not on a forum where in all candor like you could become a target. You know, uh it's not something where there're worried about being judged. They can just say, like, this is something that I find aesthetically appealing and I want to talk about it. And I think, you know, so much of what the discour the modern discourse in like forums and communities is about like comparing what I have to what you have or getting or getting someone's opinion. And when things are so subjective, like I'm sure everyone in this group has been in some group or someone has posted, hey guys, my my AD called me. Should I get the B L N R or the B L R O Yeah Like that's not whatever whatever you want. Exactly. Live your life, man. Yeah. But um but when you actually get into a conversation with someone's like, you know, I really don't understand like this particular intricacy or like how does Grand Seiko make this dial or like what is you know or hey, just a little thing, like why why do you care about this? Help me understand it. Yeah. And the other thing you start to learn are that different people have like different triggers around what they consider like a difficult conversation. One example is there was a member who messaged me recently and you know I was talking about a specific reference in 42mm and I have a little baby wrist, so a forty-two millimeter watch doesn't fit me. And I made a comment about how I had wished that that reference was available in 42 mil and I got a message from the or uh 38 mil and I got a message from the guy being like, Man, can you just stop that like I I'm a bigger guy and like I hate this trend and like when people talk about it like that I read it as like a negative thing and I get turned off and I don't want to be part of this anymore because all you're doing is telling me that like, you know, that what I like is wrong. And interesting. Right? And it and my and I was like, wow, geez, man, it never even occurred to me. And it doesn't mean that we have to like walk over, you know, act like we're walking on eggshells or like tread on you know territory softly but it's it's just interesting to realize like what what can what can turn someone on or turn someone off and how something that you may not even realize is is a big deal is like fundamental to the way that they think about how they collect and like what matters to them. That's really interesting. I mean, I I wonder you know, you talked about one of the reasons for doing this on Facebook is that it forces people to kind of be themselves. Have you guys found any other sort of like insights into either like particular collector's idiosyncrasies or kind of like idiosyncrasies of the community at large that you've kind of discovered through these conversations that you don't think have manifested elsewhere or yeah. I mean so I the thing that surprised me is the diversity of discussion and the open-mindedness of discussion. So for for example, could you guess what the number one most discussed group by miles is in our in our Facebook group. Number one most discussed brand. No. Grand Seiko. That's not that's not that surprising. But it's quite it's quite different from the the things that are most often discussed and some of the other channels where we we participate um as well. And and I think it's also not really surprising given um you know most of the people who are in collective are West Coast based. We have people all over the world, but most of them are are in in California. And so there's I think an appreciation for the engineering and the technical accomplishments of of Grand Seiko. But like by far that's the thing people want to talk about most. The other thing that's interesting is just uh and Ashra was saying this a little bit, like the the diversity of what pe I've discovered more esoteric references of pieces I didn't know existed in this group of fifty people than I see on Instagram in a community of millions of people who are are posting. And and granted you can go down a rabbit hole on on Instagram and explore hashtags and all sorts of brands, but like there's some really oddball pieces. There was an amazing reverso chronograph that someone pro uh posted the the other day that I had no idea existed and it like blew my mind. And it's like that's not like necessarily like a hot watch to talk about or something to signal with online, you know, to get a bunch of likes or things like that. Um but I just appreciated that someone's like this is a watch I love that um maybe doesn't get a lot of discussion or attention elsewhere. I'm gonna share it here. So I've been just shocked by kind of like the diversity of the of conversation. When we first opened up the the group. I I don't want to be uh you know I don't want to do uh hyperbole, but I it was days, maybe a week or more before someone posted about Rolex, which was really kind of crazy. That is yeah. And and so th that that's what's been interesting. Like you've got a small kind of tight knit group of people off in a random corner of the internet, but there's so much diversity in terms of what's being discussed. I think it's also an example, you know, and you you asked about this at the beginning, you know, of of what one of the many things that I think differentiates Northern California watch watch culture from some of the other parts of the United States. And what's interesting, you know, about about n what sort of happened in NorCal is there are a couple of um well there's lots of watch collector groups for sure, but there's a couple of of uh dealers in particular that have sort of cultivated their own their own community. You know, if you think about it, like you you can probably think of a couple off the top of your head, right? Yeah. Like HQ Milton is like, you know, probably like one of the pioneers of that. Totally. Our friend Rob Kaplan over at Topper Jewelers is another one. You know, like he's really like created a pretty amazing community around brands that are really hot and popular now, like Oris and Zodiac, but you can remember a time when those were deep cuts. Yeah. You know, and like if you were into that, you were you were a big nerd. Totally. Like if you like if you go back like five years and like check out my seawolf, someone's probably like, What? Exactly. Yeah. You know, but like Rob was onto that. And those guys I think, you know, created a home for people that were into that kind of that kind of thing. And believe it or not, you know, I think people might be surprised to hear this, but same thing actually around uh the uh the Tiffany Paddock Boutique. Like the vibe in there and and the gentleman who runs it is a incredibly warm and welcoming guy who is just a massive watch nerd himself. And going in there to to learn about the history of that c you know, like those two brands, let alone, you know, just to open your mind to to paddock in general, which I think for a lot of people can be intimidating. For sure. Is entirely possible there. So, you know, we saw this where it's like you start to see these groups of folks who might be shy or might be nervous or you know, unlike other parts of the country, might have means but don't want you to know it. Um and bringing them together to a place where they're actually able to to share in a passion, to learn from one another, and not feel like they are you know there to like drink you know drink half a glass of like champagne and then be shuffled down to to the credit card machine. So we we saw that kind of a vibe and we wanted to we wanted to find a way to bring that into the digital space. Um, and that's where the collaboration came in too, where it's like, well, okay, if we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that and we're gonna create a place where people can get together, how do we also do our best to look at the kinds of themes and uh uh interests that come out of that group to create the pieces that we hope and that we believe the people in that group um really wanted more than anything. And so the the first collaboration you did was with Zenith, right? Correct. Um so the first piece we did um which uh uh we'll deliver very shortly um was based on the uh the El Primero. Yeah. Um and based on the Chronomaster platform. And this is a watch that that both Gabe and I have always just absolutely loved. And, you know, uh frankly I probably I probably owe my my passion for it to you guys because I remember you know you like you guys educated me honestly on like the history of the Al Primera and after that and went down the rabbit hole. Yeah we'll uh we'll link up some of those stories in the show notes. We've spilled spilled a lot of ink shall we shall we say about the uh the Al Primera over the years. Totally. And um I think the truth of it is like there we we had never really found the El Primero that like fundamentally spoke to us. And that's you know that's not because there aren't a million references out there that are stunning, but we we wanted to take it to the place that like what is the El Primero that we had always really wanted? And how do we filter that El Primero through the aesthetic of the community that we're building for? Yeah. Um which isn't to say that this is how we're going to approach every piece that we make it. It certainly isn't. But for this first piece, we thought, you know, like how do we take the reductive and simplified approach of uh the digital products that we work on and apply that to a incredibly forward-ingthink and deeply storied and historical reference. So how do we apply the two without removing the core DNA? And that's where we landed with this particular piece. And you know, it it's it's an incredibly humbling process because neither Gabe nor I is a watch designer and uh we we don't pretend to be. You know, we we are we are creatives in the sense we work in advertising, we know how to write a brief and know how to build from that brief. We know how to build for a community. We know how to use Photoshop. We know how to use Photoshop. Watch out world. Critical dangerous thing. Exactly. Critical skill. But what's been really exciting is like it's brought Zenith, who by the way was like just a magnificent company to work with. They were just wonderful. And bringing like being able to bring them closer to the collector. And I think this is one of the more interesting opportunities and things that I I imagine we're gonna see more and more of in the future. Yeah. Like it used to be that like these brands didn't want to have you know I wouldn't put it this way, but like the the distance between the brand and the collector was really far. Yeah. You know, if you look at a brand like like Rolex, like they don't they don't really know who their customers are. I mean maybe they know who like their super ultra high end maybe they know who owns a Rainbow Daytona, but they probably don't know who owns like rank and file pieces. And I think that, but Rolex collectors, you know, have a have a deep desire to be connected to that company. And I suspect as we get closer and closer and closer, you know, with these kinds of communities becoming more and more pervasive around the world, that we're going to see a closing in of the relationship between the customer and like the the end user collector and the brand. And whether that's facilitated through folks like collective or through other types of relationships, that's going to, I think, be one of the one of the bridges that's gonna take us to the next generation of watch collecting. Yeah. What is that intimate relationship that we're gonna start to have with these people that are making the things we care so much about? Yeah, I I totally agree. Um for for people who may not have seen the watch, can you describe the collective El Primero? We have it here if you'd like to. Oh, you do? I have not seen it in the metal yet. We do so Asher can bust it out for you. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Um cool. So i one of the amazing things about Zenith, right, is like it's it's a brand that has like a very distinct point of view. They don't do a ton of limited editions. Like they're real they really focus on their DNA and their strengths. Um so the El Primero, Chronomaster, has a very distinct point of view. And I think for us, our our we saw that as an opportunity, which was like, okay, well what if we take the Chronomaster platform and what if we were just to sort of work with Zenith and push it in a direction um that you know that that really spoke more directly to to us. So what we've got here, Asher is oh there's a piece of plastic on it how official um so what we've got what we've got here is it's a chronomaster uh it's a 38 millimeter piece um one of the things you'll notice first about it no date. Um so that that's pretty unique among El Primeros, particularly of this size. And then the the the watch itself is very monochromatic. So the the watch dial is largely white with uh sort of gray gray accents. Um you guys wrote an amazing article. Jack wrote a piece about collective and the watch I'm sure we can link we can link up so people can take a take a look. Um I think the the detail we love most about the watch was in the case finishing. In particular, the pushers are satined, not not polished. And so it just has like this more kind of utilitarian modern modern monochromatic look. And I think that the idea for us was like let's make a watch an El Primero for for Silicon Valley and so hopefully you see some of the sort of product design language of Silicon Valley reflected in in the watch. And um I think what Zenith you know enjoyed working um uh with us on that watch was um the fact that we took something in a direction that they probably wouldn't have done on their own. And it was like truly a collaboration in that way. Like we tried to respect and worked with them to respect the DNA of the brand. I think we were the one thing we did right in this was we sort of took a page from Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's um right hand man. And you know, Charlie Munger says his secret to success is knowing the outer limits of his competency. We respected the outer limits of our competency and we really deferred to the product team at Zenith around finishing materials, frankly, uh colors and all that sort of stuff. And we put the concept in their hand and and really let them run with it. And I think that's what that's what worked well. Yeah. And you know what? That was actually really interesting because you know we've done we've done a couple other collaborations for for different groups, never never collective and never at this scale. Um and you know, some some watch companies are are are very open and and excited to work with you, but it's it's like you're placing a special order. Right. You know? So you're like, okay, we're gonna get fifty and we're gonna change that dial, and and it's like we'll either we'll either approve that or we won't. Um and I think um I think the thing that was really remarkable about Zenith is uh their one one of their um lead designers, uh a gentleman named Roman Marietta, who's just who was also just a lovely guy, um, you know, he was he really took this project on and interpreted what we were doing into their design language. And we went back and forth. We went through multiple prototypes. You know, there like there are I have I have a long WhatsApp thread within that's like, you know, debating like this particular detail or that particular detail. And you know, in the moment, like we were just thinking about it as a project that you know we're working on, we like I said, you know, we do lots of creative projects as a normal creative process. But when you take a step back and you consider the amount of time and energy and and and partnership that went into it, it it honestly it really speaks to Zenith as a brand and how much they cared about wanting to deliver for a community. Because 50 pieces is a lot of watches to sell, but for a company like Zenith, like it's not a large percentage of their total sales. Not at all. So yeah. So being able to so just thinking that they put that much time and effort into it is something that I am deeply humbled and and and appreciative of. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean the watch looks beautiful. Yeah. The uh the gray on the dial is this really nice sort of warm shade of gray. Um I really love it and the the satin finishes on the case. You've still got the like polishing on the bevels. It's nice. It's a sharp looking uh sharp looking watch. And so you're making 50 of these? Uh we're making fifty uh plus the prototype you're holding. Amazing. Yeah, it's beautiful. We'll uh we'll include a picture of this in the story. So if you want to see it, go visit hodinky.com and uh check out the post. We'll uh we'll have a photo of this in there. Yeah, it's beautiful. Nicely done. Thank you. I mean you guys are both from New York, you know what what the watch culture is like here. Um you know I've found in go I go to California pretty regularly. Um was in LA last week and and in San Francisco a couple weeks ago. And the watch cultures there are are definitely different than what you find here in New York. It has its own kind of flavor and I'd love to get your take on that. Like how how would you describe the sort of unique flavor of California watch culture. I think there's a few interesting things that come to mind. I'm curious to hear what Asher says. Now he's moved from the Bay Area down to the Los Angeles area. And that's a whole another beast of of watch culture. But I think in the Bay Area, there there's a few there's a few things. One interesting thing is like appreciation for watches almost lives in a vacuum. I think in a lot of other places appreciation, say like in in New York and parts of um you know Western Europe, like an appreciation of watches kind of goes hand in hand with other aspects of the good life, you know, menswear or cameras or cars or th things like that. And what's interesting i in in the Bay Area watch culture is like there's this purity of focus on the watches. Um and I think, you know, there's a there's a big um engineering culture in in the Bay Area, obviously. And I think watches are appreciated there um as a as a specimen of engineering. There's also a romance of of watchmaking, mechanical watchmaking in particular, that I think is really appealing to people who are living in the Bay Area and and surrounded by or working um in technology. Like it's a nice kind of breather from that world, but yet there also is a degree of technical prowess and engineering and all that in in there. So there there's this appreciation that's in a vacuum. It's almost mutt it's a lot less formal. Um you know, we talked about like someone could walk into with a pair of sweatpants to a dealer and and uh and buy a piece of uh buy an amazing watch. There's a social component to it. And and you know Gabe talked about the technical, but I think the social is an interesting one too. Especially when you look at NorCal and SoCal. You know, one one thing about Southern California and I'm I'm you know, I I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna play arm you know armchair what would be the metaphor or can we say that in regards to having it whatever. So I think there's a social element, right? Which is um you know, LA there there is a certain peacocking element. Yeah. You know, like I think that I think that like you could easily like m you could see a dude who's wearing really like exceptional tailoring, you know, and he's gonna sport like an absolutely like gorgeous, you know, A series Royal Oak, and like he's got he's totally down for the fact that you're gonna see that, you know, and like that's part of his look, that's part of his vibe, you know, and um it's a signal. Yeah. And and and I don't necessarily mean that judgmentally, like that's just part of the culture and like nobody's gonna be shy about being that way. Yeah. Um in Northern California, um a very good friend of ours and um a member also a member of collective often wears hoodies and if you and and if you pulled back the sleeve of his hoodie is a Groble Four C GMT. Sweet. Yeah. That's a look. Awesome. Yeah, but but the thing is, like, you know, he's he's a proud collector, an extraordinary, extraordinarily knowledgeable collector. Um, but it it he do it he doesn't want the world to know that that's something that's on his wrist yeah because he's also like a a a humble guy and I think that that's part of part of the the interesting like challenge of of marketing to people in NorCal where it you know, if you're gonna bring together, say, a group of watch collectors, you almost have to treat it you almost have to downplay it a little bit. Because if you bring them together with a degree of formality, everybody's gonna get uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. And right? And that's and that's the weird thing because so much and and this is I th I can imagine very challenging for watch companies that want to market to that region. You know, because this this and this is a great audience, right? I mean, a lot of these people are younger, a lot of these people are you, know, folks that that have the means. Yep. Um, but like these are these are folks that like maybe don't want to like put on a jacket and tie and go out to a really, really nice dinner because they're gonna feel uncomfortable there. Like that's not the culture that they that they are living in day to day. LA is different. But I think people like glom it together as like West Coast. Right. And like it's just not. So you know, the the challenge that I think a lot of people face, and also the opportunity, is like if somebody's gonna buy a piece like an MB and F, let's say, right, where it's like a passion piece, it's like a piece of like kinetic art, you know, it's it's an incredible watch. They're likely gonna want to do that in a much more relaxed setting than they would if they were to buy that in Europe or New York or even LA. Yeah. Um, because that's just the way that they sit in a meeting. That's the way that they have coffee with friends and that's the way they want to do it. So I I do think that as a result, luxury can sometimes read as stilted in n in NorCal, whereas luxury in SoCal can feel like part of the day to day cul Yeah. You know? Awesome. Well, we're we're gonna have to wrap up here in a second, but I want to ask each of you, since we've we've got two big watch nerds in the room, uh what are the watches you guys are looking for next? What's next on your hit lists? Ooh man. Yeah. Um I've been going down so I love um things that are stark and minimalist and have like a real kind of heritage and and point of view around them. And so same same page, my friend. Fleagers have always really appealed to me. And I've yet to find kind of the the right the right fleeger, the one that and I've dabbled, but one that's really caught my uh attention is from a German brand, Damasco. Um, and what I love about Damasco is um they are they have a very, very German and a very, very modern take on the pilot's watch. So if you look at their their Flieger, there's one in particular, it's the DS thirty. It's unmistakably a Flieger watch, but brought into a very modern context in terms of like the c theirase construction is insane. Um they the upgrades they make to to movements to make them more uh robust are insane. And then the visual design language of it is very teutonic and very stark and very modern. Um and so that watch is something I I've I've got my eye on. That might be the next one. Nice. How about you, Asher? So um I have been on a real independent bend um for a while now and um I'm really enjoying some of these companies and these watchmakers that have like they're going down their own path. You know, like like they they don't it's it like they're clearly making what they want to make. And um you know, a lot of the pieces that I want are well outside of my ability to acquire. But um one that I just keep coming back to and I'm really excited about is uh the Bulgari Ceramic octofenissimo. Oh dude, that watch is super yeah. There's so many things about that. So many things about that watch that are badass. You know, like right now, and honestly, like the funny thing is like we can talk, we could we could wax poetic about like you know the incredible movement, we could talk about you know the fact that that watch is like definitively looking to the future yeah but honestly you want to know what like gets me about it it's the fact that the clasp is ceramic because if you oh yeah. Right? Eytverhing's ceramic. Everything is ceramic. And if you think about it, you're like, you know, how hard must it have been for them to figure out how to take a material like that and make an actual working part like that be a functional thing that's gonna last decades and make it entirely out of ceramic and not take the path that everyone else takes, which is to say, well we know that that part's hard, so we're gonna make it in a material that we trust, but everything else is ceramic. No joke. Uh we'll leave the watch nameless. But I had a watch in the office just yesterday that was ceramic with a metal buckle. And this was a a sample. It was it had just arrived to the US. It was brand new, like nobody had worn this watch. Uh and, there were already wear marks on the underside of the ceramic bracelet from where the metal was. Just like I couldn't even tell if it was wear marks or if it was just like grease from the mechanism, but it was like for a watch at this level, this was a six-figure really amazing watch and otherwise unbelievable watch. Uh but you could just it like little things like that would just drive me crazy. Yeah. And and so you look at this piece and you're like, that's you know what that is? Like that's a de Yeah. So someday. Alright, cool. Well thank you guys for coming by. This was fun and uh we'll have to do something out west together. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Awesome. See you guys soon. This week's episode was recorded at Hodinki HQ in New York City and was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show. It really does make a difference for us. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. |