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Talking Auctions With Eric Ku & Only Watch 2019 Preview

Published on Mon, 21 Oct 2019 10:00:04 +0000

From the most sought-after vintage Rolex to unique pieces being auctioned for charity, we've got it all this week.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, hosts Stephen Pulvirent, Ben Clymer, Cole Pennington, and James Stacey discuss the OnlyWatch charity auction preview in New York, followed by an in-depth conversation with returning guest Eric Ku, a prominent vintage watch collector and dealer. The team breaks down the OnlyWatch auction, which features unique one-off pieces from major watch brands sold for muscular dystrophy charity every other year. They analyze the key players including Patek Philippe's steel Grand Master Chime (which could become the most expensive wristwatch ever sold), Tudor's traditionally over-performing pieces, and FP Journe's commitment to creating entirely new movements for the event. The hosts share mixed feelings about the auction's balance, noting that Patek Philippe typically accounts for over fifty percent of total sales, while brands like Vacheron Constantin and A. Lange & Söhne don't participate to avoid being overshadowed.

The second half features Eric Ku discussing his recent dining experience at the legendary n/naka restaurant in Los Angeles, the vintage watch market's current state, and entry points for new collectors. Ku provides valuable perspective on how vintage Rolex prices have climbed dramatically, with former $5,000 entry-level pieces now costing \(10,000-\)15,000, and pump-pusher Paul Newman Daytonas exceeding $200,000. He emphasizes that collectors should buy what they genuinely like rather than following trends, and suggests exploring lesser-known vintage brands that offer similar aesthetics and quality at more accessible price points. The conversation also covers the overrated nature of in-house movements at commercial price points, with all participants agreeing that unless a movement offers genuine functional advantages or exceptional artistry, the in-house designation primarily serves as marketing. The episode concludes with cultural recommendations including the documentary "American Factory" and Hitchcock's "Rope."

Transcript

Speaker
Unknown I mean fundamentally I get you know asked this probably just as much as you guys do and I can say that I really uh don't like this question. Okay. Uh I know when I first started, like the first watch that I loved was like a 1016 Explorer, okay? And I loved it because of the way it looked, the story, the history. You know, I just find it a little odd when people are like, hey, you know, uh, what should I get into first? Again, I think you should be buying something that you like.
Unknown That's what we always say on on uh on on uh the gray node when somebody writes in with uh what should I buy? It's just buy something that's in your price point that you like that makes you happy
Unknown . Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinki Radio. This week we've got our first ever repeat guest. Uh collector and dealer Eric Koo was our guest on episode 5, and with the fall auctions approaching, we figured it was about time we'd bring him back and chat a little bit about the state of vintage watch collecting. But to start things off, Ben, Cole, and I sat down for a conversation about the OnlyWatch auction just a few hours after we attended the preview here in New York. We cover what OnlyWatch is, why it's interesting, and some of our favorite watches that'll hit the block in November. Alright, let's get to it. Hey gentlemen. We've been uh spending a lot of time together today. Yeah, not not a bad thing. Not a bad thing at all. We're sure it's not a bad thing, Cole. Yeah, I mean I'm just trying to be polite. We uh we started the day off together. It's kind of the end of the day here in uh in New York, and we started the day off together at Christie's uptown uh to check out the OnlyWatch highlights. Yeah, we did. It's uh it's big big day of the year, every other year I guess, uh for Only Watch. Uh and Cole, this was your first OnlyWat
Unknown ch preview, right? This is yeah. So the first time I've even learned about what OnlyWatch is and so forth. So this is it was the first preview and first the introduction to OnlyWatch. Nice. Yeah for for people
Unknown who may not know so OnlyWatch is a charity auction. It's held every other year. It goes back to like 2005. Um Christie's had it for a while. Then it went to Phillips. Now it's back at Christie's. And the idea is basically that brands create unique one-off pieces. They're sold for charity, uh, for a muscular dystrophy charity. Um and it kind of kinda drives the collector community a little bit crazy for for a little while every every fall. Yeah. I mean I I think that there are m mixed feelings about OnlyWatch. I mean the the the idea of all these great brands doing piece uniques is pretty compelling for sure. Uh, you often see that there are very few brands actually making anything new for OnlyWatch. It's a new dial, new case, whatever, uh, FP Jordan being the notable exception. He really does make like a new movement for OnlyWatch, which is pretty neat. And you know, you there again, I kind of have mixed feelings, like like
Unknown many collectors about it. You have this idea that like these things are going to be worth a lot of money, and in some
Unknown cases they are. In some cases, you see like the the marketing gal versus the the PR person versus the CEO bidding against each other to make sure they're watching sales or retail. That has happened yet. And you know in in many ways it's you know a lot of the great brands like a Vasharon, a Longa, uh I guess we do have AP this time. Don't participate because you're always going to be second fiddle to Pet Tech. The PETEC is the number one watch by a wide margin every single time, without fail, since the inception of this idea. Yeah. So you don't get the longas. You don't get the bashrons, you don't get these really special brands participating because who wants to for sure be number two? You know what I mean? On a good day. It's true. Um and so it it it's really weird because I mean if you look at the values of the past few auctions, like the Patek usually accounts for more than fifty percent of the the sales prices of any of these sales. Right. And there's like fifty watches per sale. Correct. Yes. Um so it's it's this weird kind of like imbalanced thing where it really just becomes the Patek Philippe show at times. Uh sometimes Tudor, sometimes a journal. There there are some exceptions. We expect the crib to do well this time. Yeah, sure. Um but you know, I mean it it's the Patek Philippe show. Uh and I think, you know, it's uh some people don't like it because of that, you know? Yeah. I mean, so you've mentioned three brands already, right? That that kind of are three, I would say, like pillars of OnlyWatch, right? You have you have Patek always ends up being the highest selling piece. You have FP Jorn, who's really the OnlyWatchmaker that does a a genuinely new movement for OnlyWatch. And then you have Tudor, who has watches that typically sell for a few thousand dollars, selling watches for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah. So let's let's kind of walk through each of those. So let's let's start with Patek maybe, right? So this year Patek is doing a steel version of the Grand Master Chime, which is their most complicated wristwatch. Yep. Yeah. What are your thoughts? I mean it',s an ugly watch. It's it's just it's just a watch that like is it gonna be the most expensive watch? Like, no question. I bet literally every dollar I have on it. But does it really mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. You know, I mean it's just, you know, we were chatting earlier, uh, or I guess by now a story that I've written will will be out. And it's like it's not a classical Pet Tech. The 5208, which is which they did in titanium last time, is more classical than this. The time before that, they did a steel 5016, which was steel blue enamel, mini repeating turbion. Like that is like the most Patek. Even before that, they did a titanium 5004. Like those are Patek references that get everybody excited, even if you don't even know what Patek is, you know? Yeah. Uh the Grandmaster Chime is just such a behemoth in every way that like I just it's not exciting to me. It's really not. This watch could become a like a mega valuable watch. This could be an eight-figure watch for sure. But I just don't care. Yeah. I agree. It's hard to imagine anybody wearing this one. Whereas like I'm looking at a picture of the the 5016 right now, and like I would kill to wear that watch. That watch is incredible.
Unknown 5016 Hiroshi Fujiwar now has Eric Clapton's, like Eric Clapton was buying them, you know, John Mayer has them. Like guys that are deep, deep into this world
Unknown really have loved the 5016, certainly the 5004, which came before. Right. Um 5208 is a pretty cool watch, different thing. But I mean, I would still wear that watch. The Grandmaster Chime is just like it's just so far out there. I just don't know
Unknown who you know who this is appealing to. Yeah. I tried it on. This is uh one of the few Pateks I've ever actually had on my wrists. What do you think? I I want to give Patek another chance. I think this is a bad way to enter. Yeah, well I agree with you. It's it's it's kind of uh it's unsightly, it's weird on the wrist, it's huge. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh yeah,
Unknown like you said, it's it's not you should give it a second chance, for sure. Th there are wonderful potentials. For sure. I mean I yeah. I hate to say this is not one of them, but I mean this is certainly not an iconic protect for it, even though it is the the big the big boy in the room, you know. So when the fifty sixteen sold, it became the most expensive wristwatch ever sold at at that time. I believe that is true. Yeah. So that that took over for the steel fourteen fifteen I'm sorry, the platinum st uh world timer for Manticorum like two thousand five, two thousand. This was pre-steel fifteen eighteen. This was pre-Paul Newman, obviously. Yeah, this was in twenty fifteen. Right. Right, right. Uh and it was 7.3 million Swiss. Monster number. Monster number. Huge number. There seem to be rumors circulating that maybe the Grandmaster Time becomes the most expensive wristwatch ever made, that it maybe unseats the Paul Newman? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that's likely? Uh I mean I I mentioned it in the in the story that I that I wrote for the site recently. I think it's possible. I really do. I mean, I think the idea of the most complicated pat tech in steel with a salmon dial, you know, is is just hitting on every nerve in the collecting community right now. It would be a shame, in my opinion. Um it not that it's not a wonderful technical achievement that watch, but the Paul Newman, first of all, it's Paul Newman, cool guy. Really cool guy. Super cool. Like the coolest. The coolest guy. Maybe the coolest guy. After Grey. After Grey Corner. But I mean that, as I said to you guys earlier, like that watch created an entire vertical of collecting. And basically the entire world of collectible vintage sports watches can be drawn back to that watch, like to the Paul Newman Paul Newman. That's a massively important watch. Granted, tech
Unknown nically, whatever, it's a value 72, but like it created this community that we're a part of and that we love so much. The Grandmaster Chime doesn't touch anybody. It touches the six guys that bought that watch in 2000 whenever when they did the 175th anniversary. Yeah. Yes, they created this vertical of collecting, but even non-wash people can appreciate the Paul Newman detonation. Where I don't know about this one, you know.
Unknown And then when the Paul Newman sold, it was like mainstream news. When the Grandmaster Chime sells for however many millions, like nobody outside our world is gonna care. Unless it becomes the most expensive watch, right? Yeah. And that's and then I think well. And I think also like, you know, the way that I the way that I look at at collecting and things like this, I'm just like, what is really good for us? And by us, I don't mean Hodinky or Ben, I mean like for watch people in the watch industry. The Paul Newman was great because it's it's a Daytona that you in theory can go into a store and buy for 10,000, 12,000 bucks, whatever. It's really easy to understand, it's digestible, it has this you know super handsome, amazing, philanthropic guy uh tied with it. And it it it it makes people feel good and like, oh like I I could see myself getting into collectible watches. You see the Grandmaster Chime and I just I feel like it's gonna turn people off. If that becomes the biggest watch in the world, most expensive wristwatch in the world, people can look at it and be like, okay, first of all it's ug
Unknown ly. Second of all, there are only six other ones, at least in in its original iteration, and they're three million dollars each, and they they
Unknown don't exist on the open market at all. And it's just it's just not a world that I think people find very attractive in today's day and age. I think if this were 2008, it would be a different story. But right now, I just don't see people being drawn into that, like hyper-complicated, hyper opulent kind of world of watchmaking. Yeah, agreed. So we gotta let you go. You gotta go do like Yeah, is it all right, so we had to let Ben go. He had to go do like I guess actual CEO things. Yeah. Take phone calls, make deal. Yeah. Keep us employed. But uh we'll we'll finish this thing off. Um you know we mentioned earlier that Tutor is another company that kind of on the opposite end of the tech has its own like crazy only watch story, uh, which is in 2015, the same year that the the 5016 sold. Uh, the the next kind of most impressive watch was the Tudor Black Bay one, uh, which was a a black bay inspired by the very earliest tutor sub. Um it kind of had that like you know big hash bezel, the pencil hands, lollipop seconds hand, um sort of almost like a black bay 58 before the black bay 58. It's precursor. Uh and it sold for over a hundred times the retail price of a standard Black Bay. Um, which is absolutely crazy. At the at the time, a Black Bay was thirty-one hundred dollars uh US and this thing sold for 375,000 Swiss francs. It's actually over 120 times list price. Wow. People went nuts. I mean, I remember when this auction happened, and like I didn't really believe it when I first saw the results. I was like, did somebody tweet something wrong? Like this doesn't make any sense. Uh and then you start talking to people and it made a lot more sense.
Unknown Like Do you think it's cause uh you know people are it's an auction for charity and so forth, and and one thing leads to another and people are just more friendly with their wallets. I think so. Or is it something about the watch
Unknown itself? I think it's something about the watch. I think I mean not not to you know say that tutor isn't isn't strong on its own, but like Tutor is a part of Rolex. It's a part of the Rolex family. Yeah. Um any piece unique coming out of Rolex or Tutor. These are just not brands that really do limited editions. Like even limited editions of a couple hundred or a couple thousand pieces would be a huge deal from either brand. The chance to own a unique tutor is a is a crazy thing. And the fact that this one I mean they've done a couple watches since for OnlyWatch that have have done plenty well. Um they've they're they're nice looking watches. This is basically, Tutor made the watch that they thought everybody would want, and they made one of them. Right, like a tease. That's a tease. Yeah, and like I kind of I give it to them like from a marketing standpoint. Like, this is brilliant, you know. Um, I am sure they sold a lot of black ba
Unknown ys because of this. Yeah, yeah. Maybe may
Unknown be that was part of the plan, you know. It was kind of a ramp up for the the fifty-eight. Yeah, exactly. Um so that was cool. And then the last brand that that before we get into your kind of kind of highlights from from the experience this morning um is FPJorn. So so Ben mentioned that most people it's a new dial color, it's a different bezel, it's maybe something on a bracelet. Like it's it's alwa ays like minor change. Um Jorn builds new movements, which is kind of like the most FP Jorn thing imaginable. Little extra. Yeah. It's like, you know, they ask him like, hey, will you do something special for us? And he's like, sure, and then spends four years developing a new caliber uh to like really blow everyone away. Um and so the one that that kind of I think most people probably know about already was for OnlyWatch 2017, because remember, this is every other year. So the last OnlyWatch was in 2017. He created a mono pusher split seconds chronograph, kind of an homage to the Rolex 4113. Uh, you know, it's oversized, super thin, um, kind of a dramatic dial. It had the the blue dial from like the chronometer blue, but with like red and yellow accents. It's it's a pretty crazy looking watch but it was also a brand new mono pusher manually wound mono pusher chronograph caliber um and at the time nobody knew whether that caliber was going to make its way into a a mainline watch. Turns out it did, the Mono Poussoir Ratrapont, in a slightly modified version with the date. It's not exactly the same movement, but it was a big deal. I mean the fact that like Jorn again, we talk about like giving people what they want, like Jorn comes out with a mono pusher hand wound split second chronograph, like that's that's a big deal in the watch world and to only come out with He knows a thing or two, doesn't he? He does. Yeah. Um and this year it's it's an astronomic complication that like honestly I have not done the research yet and cannot even tell you exactly how it works. Uh but it's pretty crazy. It's it's not rocket science, Stephen. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. This guy with the jokes. Uh speaking of FP Jordan though, we have we had a pretty good encounter with FP
Unknown Jordan this morning, didn't we? Yeah. And I guess for you you've obviously encountered him plenty before. Yeah a few times. Uh I have not. We're not like hanging out getting drinks every uh every weekend. But yeah. Um I guess for me it was so literally we sit down And there he is. What's he doing? That's interesting. He's literally changing the strap on his own watch. Yeah. Just changing the strap
Unknown . Yeah. So it turns out you obviously, I mean, this is kind of like inside baseball stuff, but you can't ship watches in and out of the United States on exotic straps. There's all kinds of like wildlife regulations. So it's pretty common practice watch brands and auction houses ship things either on on fake exotic straps or on uh calf because it's easy to kind of move around. So this was on a a fake exotic orange strap, um, which which is kind of his pairing with the blue dial. And the because it's a synthetic, it it had worn out and they wanted to show it on a new strap. So naturally. Yeah. So naturally, when you need the strap on your FP Jorn changed, you call FP Jorn, right? Ye
Unknown ah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, who better to change the strap than the man who created the watch? Yeah. So he was there
Unknown with a smile on his face, uh changing the strap. He he gave us a little uh a little nod, showed us the watch, and uh was was on his way. But uh yeah, they're celebrating he's in town 'cause they're celebrating the uh tenth anniversary of the New York Jorn boutique this week. So shout out to our friends over at uh FP Jorn, congratulations. It's uh no no small feat to to have a successful boutique uh in New York. Yeah, that was that was a cool experience for me. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet. So you got to see the watches this morning. You get to spend some some real hands-on time with them. I want to know what are your favorites? Like what are the watches that people should go check out? Because like we said, there's about 50 watches, some of them more interesting than others. What
Unknown what are the ones people have to go see? I think uh the cool part about it is that they're actually is something for everyone, all the way from, you know, high complications, all the way down to just, you know, an expression of a sports watch that is totally agreeable and attractive. And I guess I would say my top pick for the whole show was the brigade type 20. Yeah, baby. That watch is so cool. Yeah. I I will go on record and say that I don't love Fotina. I don't know if that's a bad thing to say. Or if we're allowed to say that word even. Yeah, you can you can say that word. Alright, forget about the the fact that it's a piece unique, this and that. Just looking at that watch, like visually, it is the best expression of Fotina or whatever you want. We'll link it up so people can see it. But what can you describe the watch? What what makes it special? Alright. Uh imagine pouring just enough milk into coffee to get it to turn that nice creamy rich brown. So this isn't sweet. We're not talking like bodega coffee here. No, no. This is this is the finest coffee of uh Switzerland and so forth. France. France. And that that's the dial color. And then on top of that, the loom is just it's it works so well. It's not in your face. It's just, it looks like it may have been produced in period, right? Okay. Yeah. So it's essentially it's like a tropical dial. It's like a tropical dial, but it it doesn't like tropical dial. When we say tropical, it literally means that there's either been moisture damage or sun damage, right? This doesn't look damaged. It's it's so even. Yeah. It's like a perfect tropical. Yeah. Ye
Unknown ah. The second hand on that watch is so good. It has this sort of like really special almost like leaf-shaped uh seconds hand for the chronograph. Uh it's not a detail I noticed at first. Uh you know we were we were looking at the watches and photographing them. And I actually only noticed it through the camera at first as I was trying to get like a the right angle to not get reflection off the crystal. Yeah. Uh and once I noticed it, it immediately was like my absolute favor
Unknown ite thing about the watch. It's uh I think it'll be interesting to see what it looks like with the lights off. Yeah. It's thick with two C's. Yeah. Like it's a big thick Crano hand. Yeah. Um it look yeah it looks really nice. So definitely check it out. Yeah. Ye
Unknown ah. I also like that they did the case back engraving. It almost looked like uh like aftermarket engraving uh which is cool like it's a sort of light kind of like thin text it looks almost like the engraving that like a soldier would have had put on their watch. Yeah or a pilot would have had put on their watch. Yeah. Yeah all right what's uh what's up next for you? So
Unknown Brighters brighters up at the top. What are some other highlights? Brigade's the top. I guess we'll jump from sports watch. Uh before before that actually, I will say I totally dig the blanc pon as well. Yeah, the blanc pond's nice. I mean that's just a good another cool one. It's uh the only wash color is like this uh kind of like tar heels blue, Carolina blue, you know? Yeah, it's like a really light yeah powder blue. Yeah. And uh so that's the theme of it, and they incorporated that color into the fifty fathoms. And uh yeah, it just looks really nice. It works well. That color, black dial, crisp white loom. It's nice. Yeah, it's nice. Yeah. Any other faves? There were. I liked the Gronfeld. Yeah, the Groenfeld. I thought that was stunning. Yeah, the Gronfeld are really nice. Super, super cool. The Gronfeld in nineteen forty one. Um that w that was really nice. Uh oh, speaking of tutor, you know Yeah, the tutor is a great uh great. I don't know. Like Oh I was into it, man. I I was into it too, but we're you know, we're pumping up this this oh my god, the last one, the uh the the Black Bay one. Yeah. This is nothing like that. This is not the watch that people asked for. No. It's like it's the watch that Tutor's giving us that is like uh actually that's kinda cool. It's all matte black. Like everything. The hands, the logo
Unknown , the the loom. Oh, it's everything is map black. Yeah. Super great. Photographing it was a nightmare. Um yeah. I gotta say, I mean, I'm not I don't think I'm gonna surprise anybody here, but uh the Acrivia. Dude. Oof. Yeah, that's like Steel Steel case produced by Hagman. Uh this like beautiful blue grain dial, like that would be it. I could I could have that watch and not need anything else. It should say piece unique for SJP.
Unknown I mean It really should. We could we could make
Unknown that happen. Uh yeah. Shoulduld we sho we crowdfund this? Uh no, Gray's Gray's shaking his head. All right. The producer the producer says no. All right, we're going to crowdfunding canceled? Are we done? All right
Unknown . Um another one that I like to, again, I'm sure you're seeing a theme emerging here, sports watches, but I actually really like the Mont Blanc. Yeah. We did one, obviously. Yeah. And I just thought it visually it looked cool. I mean it was a it's a good looking watch. It's uh like 40s, you know, those old forties guilt dial uh Chronos. Yeah, it it's a modern take on that. Yeah, it's a playful, fun, modern take, and it just looks just looks good. Yeah. That''ss it a it's a mono pusher
Unknown split second, right? That's right. Yeah. And it's like this blue sort of like fume dial uh yeah I'm into it with like the snailed register. It's co
Unknown ol. It's it's done well. And then obviously turning it over that's where that's where it gets really fun. Those Minerva movements never awesome. Don't surprise me. Like they I every time I turn one of those over, I'm just like, oh my God. Well, that's the thing. For me, I will again this is another hot take here, but I typically associate Mont Blanc with pens. Yeah. But when you turn that watch over and you look at that movement, it's whoa, okay, I get it. This is a this is definitely a different level. Yeah. Um, which you know that for me, that was kind of the uh the nice little discovery moment with that watch. Yeah. I'm gonna come in with
Unknown a hot take. I legitimately am kind of into the uh Autumn RPG, which is a code 1159. It's a turbion open worked, uh, but it's two-tone. It's uh it's kind of cool. It's got like a you know the the uh lugs and the bezel are white gold, the middle of the case is pink gold, the skeletonized movement is like a nice mix of the two. It's kind of cool. It's a lot, and it's not kind of what I would normally think of stylistically when I think of AP, but uh it's cool and I think it works and it's it's a little bit different and like you know of all the code pieces I've seen so far like this is the one that
Unknown that I got most excited about. Honestly right now and Gray you bear witness this I wanna know how much did AP pay you to say that Steve. Not a penny. Multiple pennies. Many pennies. Yeah. So many pennies. Yeah. Any uh any others before we uh wrap it up here? One and again, sports watch. No surprise me. I love the A386, that Xenith. The El Primero. I thought that was so cool. That one so you know, obviously the multicolored registers, one register is done in this OnlychWat blue. And I think that actually it just works. Yeah. It works. It's really, really nice. Yeah. It's a nice like little nod to OnlyWatch, but also to their history. Right. Um, which is cool. And it white gold is just dope. Yeah. Looks like stainless steel, which I like. Yeah. But it's a little secret, you know? Yeah. Nice
Unknown . Uh sweet. I think uh I think that'll do it. I mean we're gonna have a whole bunch of coverage of OnlyWatch leading up to the sale. During the sale, you'll be on the ground. Um, we'll both be in Geneva the week kind of leading up to the sale, and then uh you'll be our our man on the ground for this fall's auctions. Yeah. It's gonna be an exciting week. So in the trenches in the thick of it. Oh yeah. So we'll have Only Watch. We'll have the main Christie's sale. We'll have two sales at Phillips. We'll have double signed and Geneva Watch Auction 10. Yeah. Uh we have a Sotheby sale to look at. I mean things are things are heating up. So stay focused on Hodinky for all your auction coverage. Uh two, three weeks from now you're gonna be so sick of hearing about it. Ye
Unknown ah. Probably be sick of me too. That's fine. I I hope to cover it also from kind of uh uh like sociology. What's it like? What are people like and you are eating? The watches are street. The watches are cool, right? But I think what's even cooler is whatever this buzz that happens is. So hope to kind of you know look at it from that angle too. You want a scene in the watch world Geneva in November is
Unknown uh is as good as it gets. Awesome. Well I'm looking forward to it. Awesome man. Thanks for sitting down and chatting. Yes, sir. Next up, we've got James and my conversation with Super Collector and Dealer Eric Coo. Good to have you back, Eric. Thank you. Thank you for having me again. We've got uh James here too. Yep. Nice uh SF crew. How's it going? Yeah, SF crew. Nice uh sunny day here in San Francisco. Yeah, gorgeous day. Yeah, man oh man. I don't think either one of us wants to go back to the East Coast. Nope, no thank you. I think uh you're gonna have some new new permanent residents out here. Right. We welcome everybody. So one of the reasons we wanted to have you back on the show, because you were one of our very first guests, is that on the show I asked you what restaurant you'd never been to that you were just dying to get to and you said en Naka. Oh man I see s I see is that a menu? I brought the menu with me. Oh baby. So spoiler alert, uh you got got in in.. I When did that happen? How did that happen? Our reservation was one of the last days that we were in LA. And um it was like a nice send-off to our uh month spent down south. And um the day before our reservation I get a call from the restaurant at around nine o'clock and they said, Hey Mr. Koo, your table is ready. Uh where are you? Oh no. Yeah, and I was like, What do you mean? He's like, No, you know, your reservation is today. We had just finished dinner driving home and I had like a panic attack. And I was like, you're wrong. You know, my reservation's tomorrow. I'm sure of it. Blah blah blah. Whatever. And uh um the host like polite but firm, you know, like no, you know, for sure your reservations tonight. And then I said, uh, okay, let me go back to the house. I'll check, I'll forward you all these emails. And so I went home. I was right. The reservation was the next day. And then I forwarded to them. Uh they called back and they're like, oh, this has never happened before. Um but we're switching um reservation platforms. Um I don't know if you're familiar, but this Resi uh was purchased by American Express. Yeah. And um they went to a new upstart called Talk. Okay. Which is um founded by the uh Alinea people in Chicago. Oh, cool. And um one of the uh executives there is actually a watch collector and a uh Instagram friend of mine. Nice. And they anyways they switched over to um to talk and they said that uh you know they were having some problems with the old reservation system but after like a brief brief panic attack um you know my reservation was fine for the next day and then you know everything was restored. They made you sweat it out. Yeah, yeah, but I did sweat it out, you know. Yeah. So then you went. When how how was it? It was really uh I mean, short answer is it was really great. The chef, um, chef Nikki, uh who became quite uh famous to a lot of people after the chefs table on Netflix. Um you know, it was just really interesting. Um I've eaten in a lot of fine dining restaurants, but um you know, she really is like a rock star. I mean, you know, everybody uh at the restaurant um you know, was really excited uh to be dining there. Uh people were really giddy to meet her when she came out and um you know it was kind of interesting there was a table next to us and uh one of the ladies at the table um I had overheard her basically like pouring her soul out to the chef saying about how it's been the hardest year of her life. Um she quit her job. It sounded like she's opening like a restaurant or bakery or something, but then she was just telling the chef how you know she was like the inspiration for this and you know she was waiting so long to be able to eat at the restaurant and she was really pleased with everything and it was really like inspirational to her you know I thought that was like a really uh magical thing that you don't really overhear these type of conversations uh at restaurants, you know? Yeah. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. It is crazy. Yep. So should should I go? I mean it was fantastic. Um not pretentious at all. Um for fine dining standards uh the pricing was quite reasonable. And um, you know, a lot of times when you go to a uh a f uh nice like a Michelin star restaurant. br Theingy out a wine list that's you know 300 pages. They have things that are up to thousands and thousands of dollars. Um they had a really simple uh concise um wine list the most expensive thing was maybe several hundred dollars. It was nothing like in the thousands and everything about the experience was really approachable. The staff was really nice. Um I liked how the chef, I think she's very much involved in the day-to-day of everything because towards the end of the reservation I mean of the uh dinner, she had come out and said, Oh, I'm so sorry about the reservation system. This has never happened. I can't believe it. Like, you know, we're really sorry. And for the chef to, you know, get into the minutiae of running the front end as well as the back end of the restaurant, I think was pretty interesting. That's super cool. I mean one of one of the things I think that's interesting about this is, you know, as watch guys and car guys and basically cool stuff guys, uh the chase is such a big part of things, right? Like it's it's looking for that experience or that special thing that's not easily accessible. It's not a question of having enough money. It's a question of having the access and the time to look for it and the connections and the knowledge. So I think that's something that even, you know, people listening who aren't huge, huge food foodies or huge food enthusiasts can can maybe relate to but the next question is always like once you get something it's always the next hunt so is there something that has now now that you've eaten there is there like a next I feel like Ed Naka was uh something that I had really been looking forward to for a long time. Um very seldom do things uh meet or exceed your expectations. Uh as you had mentioned, even especially with watches, a lot of times it's about the hunt and the chase. And then you know, once you get a watch or you know achieve something, it's kind of like been there, done that. But again, I was really, really uh pleased with the meal there. It was fantastic, everything about it was awesome. And um I mean in terms of culinary uh culinary goals, if you will, I feel still uh very satisfied and still like kind of basking in that glow right now. So uh I'm quite content on that uh on that front. Cool. Well m a lot more I assume has happened in your life in the last year other than uh other than going to Endaka. Sure. Um do you want to give us a little update on kind of what's changed in the world of uh Eric W since people heard from you last year? It's been about a year, I guess, almost almost exactly. Okay, let's see. Um in the world of Eriku, uh there've been plenty of great watches um a uh slow and uh painful rebirth for uh my website okay um which I don't know when this podcast will air but it may or may not be up by then. Okay. Um uh what else is going on? A lot of travel as usual. Um I recently got back from a leisure uh vacation, like a leisure trip to uh Italy for a couple weeks which was really great. Um I don't take too many uh actual vacations so uh this was quite nice and um I will say that there was a minimal watch business involved on the trip. You never know watch business. No, no. I was able to uh share a couple meals on the beach with uh our friend John Goldberger, which is always a fantastic thing. Yeah, that's a treat. Yeah. And um you know, other than that, just uh keeping busy with the uh grind of uh buying and selling watches. Yeah. What do you uh you said there's been some great great watches in the last year. Are there any pieces that have kind of come across your desk that that are real standouts from the last couple months? Mm I mean for me it's not necessarily about like the value of the watch. It's something unusual. Uh a couple things come to mind. Um I recently acquired a uh one of the Rolex QA watches. Oh sweet. It's a stainless steel one, so it's a smaller one. I think it might be twenty nine millimeters. Um very small but um the watch is really nice because it's quite original uh except for the luminous on the dial which had been uh touched up at some point. But uh most importantly it still has the uh guine balance in the uh movement which is uh irreplaceable and the most special part of it. Um I was speaking recently to uh uh Andrew Hildreth um and he was explaining to me how I could actually find the uh records and the Q and get the uh original QA certif certificate from the observatory in the UK. So I'm probably gonna go ahead and try to research a little bit more about the watch. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Other things um you know I think uh uh we had spoken about and I showed you also this uh really weird transcontinental that uh I think maybe we'll talk about at some point in the future, but uh right now there's just not much information about it that um that people know. I guess I'm gonna show you some photos after after we're done recording. This watch is crazy. Can you can you describe it a little bit, Eric? Looks like a uh mix between a uh turnograph and a uh date just it's got uh date just style dial um in silver um but it has the words transcontinental on it. Um it's got a very weird turning bezel that's graduated from one to twelve, but with a really weird deco font that looks completely not Rolex. And it has a uh unique reference number. So something very uh strange that, you know, uh nobody really has been able to shed light on except for the fact that, you know, there's maybe uh two or three other examples that have kind of surfaced over the last several years. And the one you have has the papers and stuff. Yeah, has the time, It's so strange. Yeah, you're gonna love this watch, James. I feel like this could be a very watch. Sounds very cool.. Yeah Um other than that, um you know, I was uh really excited last year at the Grand Prix I was able to give out the award for the uh best men's watch um which uh Rechep uh won and uh I recently took delivery of uh my cr uh chrono major contemporary uh that he made and it's fantastic. Uh it's on my wrist. I haven't taken it off since I got it and it's really uh kind of like the N Naka thing. It was uh worth the wait and very satisfying. And yours is Rose with the black dial. Yes, Rose with the black dial. Yeah. That watch, the first time I saw that watch, I I had very little idea of what I wasing walk into. Um the folks who were handling some PR stuff for Acribia reached out to us before Basel World and kind of said, like, hey, would you come meet with us? We're like, yeah, sure. So as we were kind of figuring out who would attend what appointments. It fit into my schedule, so I went. And I I knew that he was a good watchmaker. I knew he did interesting things, but it wasn't really my taste. It wasn't the sort of watchmaking I'm into. Kind of bigger, a little more aggressive styling, multiple turbulions, like big crazy stuff. Um and I went to the meeting, and first of all, Reg is the sweetest person. Um such a nice down to earth guy, but he showed me this watch and I was like what what am I looking at? Like I I can't I couldn't even wrap my head around it the first time I saw it. It is such a special piece. Yeah, I mean the uh like you said, uh personally the uh aesthetics of his uh previous pieces were not necessarily uh something that you know had uh tremendous appeal to me. I definitely appreciated the craftsmanship in the watches, but the aesthetic really wasn't my uh thing. But uh, you know, the first time I saw an early prototype of this watch, I won't say that I was sold on it, but I was intrigued. Um, I listened to his uh idea about like why he was making this and what he was trying to accomplish. And you know, over the last few years I'd seen many inter iterations of it. Um and you know, the final product just blew me away, you know? Yeah. Um little changes I saw over time. Um the subseconds on the dial he ended up making um as a separate piece of enamel kind of recessed and uh with a gold ring around it. Um and you know a little uh tuning of like some of the uh numbers and the fonts on the dial, uh the finishing on the movement, you know, um it just really ended up being a fantastic piece. Yeah. I know James, you're not generally as big of a dress watch uh kind of guy. Uh but what are your thoughts on this on
Unknown this watch? I mean I I've only seen I haven't seen the the Rose before, uh so we'll we'll take a peek after the recording of course, but I mean it's just gorgeous. Uh for one and there's a there's a cohesion to the general like uh design of the dial and the hands that that lends a balance that that seems very considered. Yeah. And uh and obviously with any like like Eric was saying with and and Steven yourself, uh like anything with the stuff that he makes it's, it's incredibly well made. It's beautifully finished. It it's really top tier independent watchmaking and to make something that's that's very much like more certainly a dress watch, but like it has an everyday sort of appeal and Yeah, it has. I mean I I
Unknown think I think it's pretty safe to say I think it was my favorite watch I saw in twenty eighteen. I think I think I I feel pretty comfortable saying that. You know, it's kind of funny. Like I feel like in the uh world of independent watchmaking, um people like to throw around this uh phrase of like, oh, so and so is like the next Philippe Dufour. You know, over and over again you hear this. And um, you know, uh I think uh what uh Rochep has accomplished with this watch really um you know uh brings back a lot of uh thoughts of like the simplicity and you know kind of like an updated really beautiful kind of timeless design, you know, that I think um will age very well over the years. Yeah, I totally agree. It's funny you bring a Philippe Dufour. I uh you know, in in all my years of going going to Basel World, there have been two appointments where as I walked in, Philippe Dufour walked out, like we crossed in the doorway. Uh it was that appointment. It was seeing Reg for the first time. Uh and it was uh the first time I met Roman Gautier. Oh and as I was walking into the booths, uh, or the booths, the little office areas. Uh they're not huge, huge multi-brand booths, but uh yeah, Philippe was walking out, and I uh both times noticed and was like, huh. Like if Philippe's here, this must be interesting. Like if this guy's paying attention, it's more than enough for me. I should definitely be paying attention. My uh favorite uh Philippe Dufour slash Hudinky movement uh moment was uh at the first summit. Uh I was talking about vintage watches, um fake vintage watches and whatnot, and we had a uh a tray of fake Paul Newman dials. Okay. And then a Will, I think, was the photographer that took the photo, but somebody uh I think it was Will.ok To a really great photo of Philippe Dufour looping a bunch of fake Paul Newman dials. It's uh I'm sure it's in the archive on the website. It was just we'll have to go dig it up. Yeah, that's a great photo. I blew it up and you know, I have it on much more. He's an amazing guy, Philippe. Oh, for sure. I mean uh for somebody that has been elevated to such a uh godlike stature in our world and you know there's this whole cult surrounding him you know couldn't be a nicer guy. Yeah. And I love that he he's so nice, but at the same time because he's he's not kind of beholden to any of the groups or any of the brands, like he's doing his own thing. He's totally For sure. He'll tell you. He'll tell you either he loves it or it's it's shit and he does not pull punches at all, which I love. For sure, for sure. Uh it was funny. Uh a couple years ago I had my simplicity serviced for the first time. And um you know I I usually wear it on a Camille Fournay strap that I had made. Um although um you know when Philippe delivers the watches, he has his own um straps that are stamped uh Philippe Dufour. But I suspect that they're made by Camille Fournet. But uh anyways, it was very nice. He gave me the watch back and said, Oh, by the way, you should wear it on one of my straps and he gave me like a like a new old stock uh Philippe du four you know uh strap for the watch that thought was quite nice. That's funny. As we're approaching auction season, uh the the main auction season of the year, the November auctions. Uh I've I've started to kind of chat with people and kind of feel out what people think is is coming. Uh and I wonder if you have any thoughts on kind of the the general state of the vintage watch market and kind of maybe what we can expect in terms of trends or uh the kind of overall feel of the market in in November. We're still a little ways away, but I think it's it's like time now to start thinking about it. Yeah. Um I wish I had some uh juicy, salacious gossip about what's coming, but really I I don't really have much of an idea right now. Um I mean the things that have been announced, I think um, you know, uh Phillips is gonna have another great uh evening sale in New York. Um they have the uh Jack Nicholas uh watch and then uh the Marlon Brando thing which is a uh fantastic story. Uh I'm sure both of them will do quite well. Um and you know, it's one of those things like you think about um maybe we talked about this before, not necessarily uh on the podcast, but you know, what are the most expec uh most important uh Rolex is out there and uh you know this Marlon Brando one is certainly like one of those, you know. Yeah. Um GMT wise, you know, we talk about like Shea Guevara's GMT, uh Castro's watches, but uh this one being part of Hollywood is quite a uh uh quite a uh historical timepiece, you know. Um with the recent uh passing of um pet brought me back to thinking about the uh the the Peter Fonda GMT that uh Heritage uh sold um many years ago you know and um in terms of uh historical movie related ones really I can't think of anything, you know, as uh as important as maybe this Marlon Brando watch. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if there there are you know, uh we won't get the kind of exact bits of what kind of property is coming up for sale until we're a little closer, other than the the highlights you just mentioned. But thinking about the market more more broadly, I know summer we're recording this the tail end of the summer and it's kind of a slower time in the the you know collecting and dealing community so you know uh it's maybe not the the hottest point in the in the market but have you noticed any general trends for the market that you think we'll see kind of being borne out over the over the auction season? I mean um you know scuttle butt s scuttle butt amongst uh you know my uh dealing colleagues, we always talk about oh summer it's so slow, like you have anything going on, like what about you? Um so summertime generally, like you said, is uh quite a slow time of year. Um but I feel also that um I think some of the uh vintage prices have uh really been climbing quite rapidly and it's natural it's uh part of a natural progression of things that um you know uh the upward ascent may slow down if you will. Yeah. Um I definitely feel a little bit of that. Um I think the market was uh a little over inflated over the last several years. And um you know, there might be some sort of a correction in line in terms of uh some of the pricing. Yeah. I mean something James and I see, you know, a lot dealing with vintage watches and new watches is that you know it's it's steel watches on bracelets are are what everybody wants, right? It's it's Royal Oaks, it's Nautilus, it's Rolex sport models. Um are are you finding that demand to be the same in the kind of vintage world or is it a little bit different? I think demand for your bread and butter uh sport rolex watches um possibly has kind of uh gone down a little bit Okay. Um you know, these are what everybody basically when they get into watches, um most people I should say, this is the type of things that they collect. And I think uh many people have been buying these things uh over the last few years. And um you know, maybe there's like an evolution of like, hey, what do I collect next or whatever? But um I don't really feel that that strong demand for the
Unknown specific or you think it's just kind of spreading out into the stuff that's surrounded already
Unknown ? I think things got really expensive like uh very rapidly and um it's just kind of uh I don't know what the market will bear, I guess. Yeah. Um one particularly uh one particular thing that comes to mind is um since the Paul Newman's Paul Newman sale, um you know, mainstream press has been talking about vintage watches and whatnot and a lot of people, they just like Daytonas, you know. But uh putting things in perspective, like I always cringe a little bit when somebody is describing a Paul Newman Daytona and they say uh exceptionally rare. Yeah. Or something like that. Yeah. I mean these are very desirable watches, but exceptionally rare like they surely are not. You know? Every auction season there could be ten, twenty of them. And um you know, they're very desirable, but um I don't really think that that uh rare is the right uh adjective used to uh I mean if a customer called you and said like I want a Paul Newman, I'm willing to pay like fair market price, you could probably get them one pretty quickly, right? Yes. Yeah. So I mean it's kind of good though. I think things got too expensive. Um I used to say a lot of times that I feel like a um a pump pusher, uh Paul Newman is kind of the entry point for like a well heeled collector that wanted to say like, Hey, I want my first like nice vintage Rolex or something And um you know, we've gotten to the point where that uh point of entry is uh is over two hundred thousand dollars now, which I think is quite absurd, you know. That's for most people not a point of entry. Completely unaccessible, you know so what's happened to the not the bottom of the market but the the sort of the new entry points right like if a if a guy one one of the things we talk about is bringing new people into the hobby, right? Like how do you create the next generation or the next group of enthusiasts and collectors? And what that requires is people have to buy their first watch. They have to get excited about it. What are what are your thoughts on, you know, basic 5512s, basic 5513s, even basic date justs and day dates, as the prices climb up, what do you think that does to getting new people involved if getting into vintage Rolex now costs ten or fifteen thousand dollars as opposed to three to five thousand dollars. Any foray into these vintage watches now, as you'd mentioned, has become very expensive. And um, you know, I used to think like uh you know, when people get married, I don't know if they still say this, but they used to say, Hey, you spend two months salary on like a an engagement ring or something to that effect. There was some marketing spiel about it. Um, I think that um in my mind I always thought, hey, you know, a nice place to get into vintage Rolexes is $5,000. Um previously at $5,000, you had quite a lot to choose from. You could buy a mat dial 5513, uh maybe a 1016, you know, a lot of things that kind of uh sport category. But nowadays we're seeing that entry level being let's say between 10 and 15,000 I see um a lot more interest in like even more basic, if you will, uh vintage Rolexes um two-tone date just plastic crystal used to be you know nobody wanted these things or nobody thought they were cool but you know what they're cool now because they're still at a fairly accessible price point, you know. Um but that being said, if you look at the new watch market um as an indicator, I mean your entry level to a sport rolex is ten to fifteen thousand dollars, you know? Right. And um maybe not now because there seems to be a shortage everywhere. But you know, you could go into a Rolex store and anybody can go and buy like a new Submariner. Um or they used to be able to. Um and you know, I thought that people that had a little more uh interest in diving a little beneath the surface would say, you know what, at that price point, I'd want to buy something unique like a vintage watch that they're not making any more of that will probably hold its value better, although that's not necessarily the case right now either with the uh new sport prices. But you know, like it's just something different, you know? Um I always thought that uh vintage watches are something that there's a degree of expertise that you need to have to uh be uh into this hobby. And uh it shows uh sort of a connoisseurship that doesn't necessarily exist when you just walk into a store and buy brandy wash. Yeah. No, I totally agree. It's uh it's something I mean we we hear about it all the time is is guys trying to get into vintage Rolex. Um, do you think I mean you mentioned two-tone date just, but um I mean James and I feel up this question from people all the time and kind of shrug our shoulders, I think. I mean, James, do you do you agree? Like where to start? Yeah, where to start. With actual v
Unknown intage yeah or or just a model made anymore actual vintage I I don't know what I don't know what it would be for Rolex anymore I mean I've been I've been telling people like fourteen two seventies one one four two seventies you know the thirty six millimeter explorers are are rad but, I don't think they count as being
Unknown like I mean fundamentally I get you know asked this probably just as much as you guys do. And I can say that I really uh don't like this question. Okay. Um the reason why I don't and i you know, it's not anything whatever, but I know when I first started like the first watch that I loved was like a ten sixteen Explorer, okay? And I loved it because of the way it looked, the story, the history. And uh, you know, I just find it a little odd when people are like, hey, you know, uh, what should I get into first? Um because again, obviously with the prices the way they are now, it's hard to ignore the uh financial realities of the money aspect of things. But again, I think you should be buying something that you like. Like you know, we shouldn't have to tell you, hey, like you should like a two-tone GMT or a two tone date just you know
Unknown . So I just think that um And also like where you started you were saying like when when you got in on the ten sixteen, did someone have to tell you it was the ten sixteen or you spent time to develop that as a form of taste? I just like the watch. I mean honestly it was just what I like. So may maybe the answer is get on the internet and find the watch that you really want and then see if it's something that's then again when I star
Unknown ted I think the ten sixteens they were worth like three thousand dollars. Oh man, that hurts my soul. Yeah. Uh no, I I love that idea. I mean I love I love the idea that like asking what should I buy to get into it is the wrong question. What you should be doing is finding what you like and then finding a way to get into it. Because I mean one thing that has been proven over time is I feel like generally speaking, Rolex has been a decent store of uh value. Yeah. I don't want to say like appreciating, but you know, it stores its value well. And so you can't really go wrong with any Rolex in my opinion. And I think that being the case, you know, you should look at what you like, you know, what you like slash uh what is in your price range that you're comforta
Unknown ble with, you know? That's what we always say on on uh on on the the Grenada when somebody writes in with uh what should I buy is just buy something that's in your price point that you like that makes you happy. I mean that's pretty good criteria
Unknown for buying anything, let alone not just watches. Uh I know the bulk of what you do is is Rolex related. Sure. But um giving some people some places to look to maybe find the thing that they like, uh, outside of Rolex as the Rolex prices creep up. Are there other places that you think, you know, without telling people like, oh, you should go buy this, um, are there other places that you think people should should look into in the history of watches um that might give them some some other options and some things to get excited about that might be more affordable. I mean uh personally speaking, other like big brands that I like, uh which I would mention obviously like Patek, AP, things like this. But everything is quite expensive right now. Um but you know uh I think we maybe talked slightly about this uh in our previous podcast. But um you know if you buy on like design right there's plenty of uh no name slash uh lesser famous name watches that are like vintage that are like really cool, you know? Um one of the many business ideas that I had over time that I didn't have time to bring to market is I would love to have a website that just sells vintage watches that are under a thousand bucks, you know. Doesn't matter what brand they are, but just something that like looks good and is kind of cool, you know. Um one of my favorite vintage Pat X is a five six five, um, which is a uh screwback um case like calatrava. It just has a really nice look. And um the funny thing is the uh case manufacturer for that actually made basically the identical case for many other brands. Doxa comes to mind, Movado, you know, and all sorts of uh other brands like that. And um, you know, it's very funny. One of my favorite singular uh vintage watches is the uh the black uh radium five six five um paddock philippe uh they call it the night watchmen which recently sold um at Phillips a few years ago um I found a little Doxa with a black radium dial that is maybe 29 mm but looks identical, you know? And uh same style case, same dial style dial and everything. So, you know, really I think if you are buying things uh for its aesthetic uh merits, um, you know, there's a whole lot of things that you can be kinda getting into that n don't necessarily involve, you know, one of the big brands Yeah, that's great. I mean I I think the the kind of key there is is having the knowledge and kind of knowing where to look for those sorts of things. Are are there resources not just for purchasing but for kind of learning and getting knowledge. Um, you know, whether it's books or or things people can find online that you you think as somebody who's in this all day, every day, you think are good places to kind of go learn where even if you're not purchasing, it's it's a good place to kind of get that info so you can then make those kind of informed decisions. I mean the scholarship on um you know kind of the smaller Swiss brands is uh quite limited in my opinion. Yeah. Um I know that um you know when I first started being involved with watches, uh there was definitely there was no hoodinky around, there wasn't as much information on the internet. And uh, you know, one of the best places to just look at pictures of things was eBay. And uh I still think that's true because it's one of the biggest uh international marketplaces. And um you know uh just off the top of my head, I've seen really fantastic kind of um you know, old chronographs from you know, with really weird names that are quite funny, like uh the Record Watch Company. Um I've seen chronographs with the name Harvard on it. You know, just like weird stuff that probably nobody knows anything about some of these brands, but uh design-wise they're you know they're quite nice things, you know. Cool. And on a lot of them I'd say like um especially with old chronographs, it's like the case maker is the same as uh possibly some paddock Philippe's. Uh the movement is a Valjou movement that's very similar to like a Rolex movement. And you know, basically it's just the name that makes a difference by a magnitude of maybe two zeros at the end of the price, you know? Yeah, totally. I mean this is something that that I think people don't necessarily know enough about or appreciate enough about the watch industry is that today it's all about in house movements, it's all about as much manufacturing under one roof as possible, but the industry was never traditionally like that. There was I mean there' stsill are suppliers who everybody's buying from, but it's it's a little I would say less diffuse than it used to be. But it it really used to be, you know, there was a case maker and they made cases for twenty brands at every price point, right? Yep. Um I mean now it's all about like you said vertical integration, everything in-house. Um but you know in the old days uh there were case makers that made cases for you know a multitude of brands, you know. Um I believe like Rolex always made their own stuff. But even Paddock Philippe, the case makers were um were other, you know, other brands. Um you look at like the early perpetual calendar chronographs, 1518s, uh 2499s, you know, there were a multitude of brands that were um making the cases for them. And I should step back and say before Rolex got vertically integrated, um they were relying on a couple case makers too. Uh one was called Gen X. Uh Spillman was another one that made most of the chronograph cases for Rolex. So, you know, it was really um it wasn't important in those days to have everything made in house. Now I feel like because the price points have gotten very high, they use this as like a marketing thing to justify why the costs are so high. Yeah. But I don't necessarily think that it makes it a better product. Yeah, I mean that was going to be my next question is kind of where where do you guys stand on kind of the value of of in-house and whether that's actually something that delivers value to the customer or whether it's a kind of like box you can check as I mean this is a really blasphemous thing, but I kind of feel like uh it's way overrated. Yeah. No, that's not bla b
Unknown lasphemous at all. Yeah. Yeah, I I I'm I'm I'm inclined to agree. I mean there's there's scenarios like obviously Eric and I exist in very different aspects of the watch market where like you have experience with some truly fantastic watches on a day to day basis. And I'm dealing with modern product typically and I like th I love stuff under five grand that like that's what I would like to write about for Hodenky. And even if you look at something like uh like for me, the only time where I feel like uh the in-house really gets me something is when it's either incredibly beautiful like a Jorn where I I know that I can appreciate that for all the work that went into it, but that's not your under five thousand or even under ten thousand dollar equation. At the at the let's call it entry luxury price point, there are some ergonomic and like kind of feed tactile feedback things that aren't so pleasant about a basic at a seventy seven fifty. So as soon as you move one step off of that, whether it's into uh the uh uh you know, the the column wheel chronograph that's through the ETA channel, it's an L three eighty eight or eight eleven or whatever from that's in like the longine's big eye. It's just a much more pleasant thing to actually press the buttons on and you can't feel the rotor spinning every time you go to pick up your coffee. And and so there's little things like that that that reflect on me. But when it comes to like the difference between uh like you know, if you look at my I have a uh uh Polar Explorer 2, you know, the last generation. And if you pick that up next to my Doxa, I don't think you could shake them around and feel any external difference to the movements. The Rolex one is a better movement and genuinely keeps better time than the Edda in the Doxa, but I don't feel that different about the two of them. Uh like it at a certain price point I think like it all comes out in the wash. Is it accurate? Can you get it serviced five years later? Etc. Uh I agree. Yeah no I I totally agree. I asked the question, but I'll I'll also answer it. But there's a fantastic price point. Like like what's on your wrist. And and you know, something like a Jorn where where you're paying for something
Unknown so gorgeous. But I mean something at that price point, I like to think of it like what are you spending your money on when you're buying like a really nice independent watch like that? Uh A, you're kind of um being a uh a patron of the uh individual. Absolutely. But B it's uh it's like you're paying for you're buying artwork basically. You know, it's something that is uh from the hand of the master, if you will, and it's something like very tactile and special. But at um um I don't know if this is the right term, like at commercial price points, whether it's like five, two, ten thousand or whatever, um, the in houseness because it's made by, you know, robots and whatnot anyways, like it kinda loses its uh appeal to me. You know, it doesn't I mean it doesn't mean as
Unknown much in my opinion. And I mean unless the watch could offer, say, a much thinner profile than its contemporaries, where like, you know, Eda with a the the higher end the 2892 it's quite a bit thinner than a 2824 that's better could mean your dive watch is somewhat thinner or or whatever or if you run into a feature set that's different like the difference between uh your your normal independent 24 hour hand GMT which you can get from Eda or Selita but you can't get a local jumping like you like shooter or Rolex will make that makes a big difference for me. I I I'll pay the money for the local jumping. That's a much more functional sort of outlay. That's why I have the Explorer 2. Is because it has that ability to jump the hour hand, and then you then you see that in other brands in-house, you know, Omega has a jumping hour even on non-GMTs, as does Paneraye. So when you go to change the time, you can change the hour separately without changing without losing the accuracy of the seconds hand. Mm-hmm which even if it's not a GMT, that's good functionality. So if that's what separates if that's what w might separate them from a modified EDA or a base Edda, I get it. Yeah.
Unknown But it has to be I I mean I feel like with this uh war of racing to make everything in house, it's like everybody keeps trying to reinvent the wheel over and over and over again. Yeah. And there's uh you know, there's tried and true things that just work, you know. Um cool innovations in uh in-house manufacturing, I think, would be something like uh the RD2 movement in AP, making a ridiculously thin, you know, perpetual calendar um automatic movement, uh, you know, and pushing boundaries that were not possible in the past. Like this is cool stuff. This is kinda like you know, like a space race of its own. Yeah. But, you know, just saying, hey, this is a in house time only caliber, but it doesn't really do anything new but it's in house, like that's not that interesting to me, you know. So to wrap things up, we're we're starting to run a little low on time, but uh something we've been doing on the show that we didn't get to do with you the first time around is uh the hodinky questionnaire. So we've got a couple uh a couple rapid fire questions I just want to ask you here at the end. Alright. So first up, what's what's a watch you've seen recently that really caught your eye? I think the one on my wrist, uh the chronometria contemporane, it's fantastic. Perfect. What''ss uh what the best place you've traveled in the last year? Uh we had a really great time in Italy. Um we went to the beach a lot and uh you know, it's not uh experience that I I've been used to, but it was really fantastic and I quite enjoyed it. Great. What's your guilty pleasure? My guilty pleasure is eating a fourth meal at midnight if I'm still awake. Perfect. Heck yeah. Yeah, I think I'm in on that. Um and the last one is uh what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given and who gave it to you? The best piece of advice that I had ever been given was this is a tough one. I I think the best piece of advice that I was ever given was by my parents and just said, uh, whatever you're gonna do, just be the best at it So to actually wrap things up, uh we always like to finish with a cultural recommendation. So what's a a book, a movie, T V show, something you recommend people go check out uh after they're done listening to this episode. I watched a very good documentary on Netflix recently that I think it was the first one that uh was one of those ones produced by uh by the Obamas. Oh, cool. Yeah, I even got Nawachi. Like uh I'm trying to remember the name, but it was basically um about a Chinese company who uh opened a factory in the States and um kind of like I don't know if you were you guys remember in the not not really but uh if you remember in the 80s they had this movie called Gung Ho about this Japanese car company that came to the States and, you know, opened up this factory to save the town. Okay. It had a little bit of that feeling, but American factory. Yes. American factory is what it was called. And it was just like really fantastic. It told like a uh I thought like quite a balanced story from the side of the uh Chinese management and then also showing like the day-to-day struggles of um you know these uh lower wage earners in the United
Unknown Yeah, mine's an easy one. It's a movie from nineteen forty-eight. I actually think on on the la oddly enough, the last time we did this, I recommended a Hitchcock movie because we were in San Francisco. I recommended uh uh Vertigo. Vertigo, thank you. So I'm gonna follow it up with another Hitchcock. Oddly enough, I just watched it. I'm loosely obsessed with it. I've watched it a couple times now, is Rope. Oh man. And uh I'll keep it quick 'cause we are short on time, but it is just the most fantastic presentation, tone, and pacing in a film I've come across in a long time. I mean, he is without a doubt the finest filmmaker in history and this is one of his finest pieces of work. It's so patient, it's so weird, and it's so special all at the same time
Unknown . I will say really quickly, I have a very hard time watching old movies now just because the production value is not like new ones but uh the Hitchcock movies are the exception they'
Unknown ve aged very very well so rope rope feels like a play it's shot as though it's one shot so they'll occasionally zoom in on someone's body while people are repositioning. It's it's also because they they technically couldn't do it in one take. Like the cameras didn't hold enough film. Yeah. But it's just it's simply a fantastic film. So vertico, I still stand by, of course, north by northwest, these are all wonderful. Rope is a whole different thing. It's so good
Unknown . I'm gonna cheat here really hard and just double down and say, please go watch rope. Uh I think I first saw this movie maybe ten years ago, maybe a little more than that. Uh and I watch it at least once a year. It's it is don't nobody remake rope. Yeah, please don't make if you remake rope, we're done. I'm done with you, whoever you are, if you remake rope. But uh just go watch Rope. It's Jimmy Stewart being super weird the whole time. It's it's awesome. So I have a more important question about rope. Okay. Is it uh free streaming on Netflix or do I have to pay three ninety nine to rent it on uh Amazon Prime. I think you have to pay to rent. I found it on Amazon Prime Prime. It's free on Amazon Prime. Okay. All right. That's good to know. So next time we have you on, we're gonna check in. Make sure you've seen Rope. I'll make sure to watch it. Awesome. Thanks again for uh joining us and uh it's good always good to see you when we're out here. Thanks for having me. This week's episode was recorded at the podcast studio in San Francisco, California and at Hodinky HQ in New York City. It was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show, it really does make a difference for us. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week.