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Summer Watches, Unrest In Hong Kong, And The LA Times's Daniel Miller

Published on Mon, 19 Aug 2019 10:00:16 +0000

Designing the perfect summer watch, checking in with Joe Thompson, and going inside Los Angeles watch culture.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent sits down with James Stacey, John Mayer, and Cole Pennington to discuss summer watches. The group explores what makes the perfect summer timepiece, debating everything from water resistance requirements to case materials and dial colors. They share the watches they're actually wearing this summer—including James's Oris LE, John's GMT Master II Batman, and Cole's Omega Flightmaster—before diving into their dream summer watches. The conversation ranges from vintage gold Submariners to Royal Oak Offshore divers, with Cole making a case for elegant watches like vintage Omega Poleruters worn while sipping sweet tea in Charleston. The group then designs their ideal summer watch from scratch, with James proposing a 38mm titanium skin diver with an innovative flip-around bezel that could switch between dive timer and twelve-hour configurations.

The episode's main feature is an extended conversation with Daniel Miller, a staff writer at the LA Times and host of the podcast "Larger Than Life." Miller discusses his seven-part series about legendary LA street racer Big Willie Robinson, who used cars to unite communities after the 1965 Watts riots. The conversation explores the intersection of car culture and watch collecting, with Miller sharing his journey into vintage timepieces that began in 2011 with his grandfather's gold Baume & Mercier. Miller reveals his unconventional strategy of buying broken watches on eBay to avoid counterfeits, and discusses his collection of 1950s-60s dive watches, including pieces with concave bezels like the Gruen Ocean Chief and Waltham MC4. The episode concludes with Joe Thompson's segment analyzing how political unrest in Hong Kong—Switzerland's top watch export market—threatens the industry's two-year recovery, drawing parallels to previous market downturns and examining the complex global factors affecting Swiss watch exports.

Transcript

Speaker
Unknown I know that some of the watch collectors and listeners are probably gonna throw open their mouths when I say this, but I have to say, under the right circumstances, by a broken watch, when I first got into watch collecting around 2011, I was so terrified of buying a counterfeit watch. And so my logic at the time was who would take the time to sell a counterfeit broken watch? If you're gonna counterfeit a watch, it's gonna be working and it's gonna be pristine. So by buying a broken watch I can inoculate myself from the world of counterfeit watches. It's super funny. I've never heard that strategy before, but it actually like that theory seems to hold water. Like that makes a lot of sense. I mean if you're gonna take the time to counterfeit a watch and sell it, like it's probably gonna work. Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polveran and this is Hodinki Radio. We are deep in the dog days of summer now. It is way too hot outside in New York City. So I thought I would start things off this week by sitting down with James, John, and Cole to talk about summer watches. We ran a story a few weeks ago on the site about it, but the four of us sat down and talked about why we're wearing the watches we're wearing this summer, and if we could design our own dream summer watch, what that would look like. Then we've got my conversation with Daniel Miller, who's a staff writer at the LA Times and the host of his own podcast, Larger Than Life. Larger Than Life is a show about LA street race organizations Alright, let's get into it. Alright, good to see you guys. Good to be here. Good to be here. It's a hot, sweltering summer day here in New York City, which uh I think at this point in the summer we're all pretty used to. Absolutely. Uh I'm gonna I'm gonna crack my dietiet D Dr. Pepper here. I think. Oh, yeah. That's a good sound effect. Dr. Pepper. Oh, there we go. Come on, man. It's Friday. You can have a heavy Dr. Pepper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Pepper, heavy. Unpaid advertising. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. How much did big Dr. Pepper pay us to uh to promote this? That's all that money. Yeah, it's not sweet syrupy money. I'm uh I'm from Texas, so that's all the Dr. Pepper money I need. But uh all right, it's summer. Uh I figured let's talk summer watches. Uh couple weeks ago we ran a story on the site where we all rounded up our favorite summer watches. Uh we're gonna link to that below in the show notes, but let's just do a quick recap for anybody who didn't see that story. So uh let's start Cole. What was your what's the watch you're wearing most this summer
Unknown ? Uh I know it's kind of a weird pick, but uh I've been wearing the Flightmaster quite a bit. And uh the reason I I chose that watch this summer to wear, yeah, it's big, it's bulky, it's it's strange, but it's really, really good as a travel watch. So I've been bouncing around this summer and uh that's what I've been putting on the wrist mostly. I had not been going to the beach or doing any of the I was saying what do you do when you go swimming? Well that's the thing. To be honest, I haven't had the opportunity yet. So All right. We gotta get you to a pool and get you something with screw down pushers. That's right. That's right. H
Unknown ow about you, John? Uh I've been wearing my GMT Master 2 Batman, which I got back toward the beginning of July and really back. Indeed, yeah, it's the new one. Yeah, so I I got it uh back uh in the beginning of July and it really hasn't left my wrist much uh since then. Nice. James? Uh yeah I'm just wearing the Oris L E that we produced uh that sold out nice and quickly earlier in July and it hasn't really left my rest since I picked it up. It's uh first new watch I've had in oh, very long time. And uh so long you can't remember. Yeah. I like it quite a bit. I don't I don't typically buy a lot of watches, but I'm happy to have this one uh this one on wrists and it's pretty summary. Yeah, I love it on the NATO. It looks dope. That's a rubber NATO, right? Yep. Yeah, yeah, it's an Italian rubber NATO and it just deals with sweat a little bit better. I mean probably a nylon NATO deals with sweat better because you don't notice it because it soaks into the NATO, but then it starts to smell or gets crusty and you gotta clean it. Or any other rubber where when at the end of the day when you go to take it off, I just kinda slash it around in the sink and leave it. Nice. So cool. Yeah, I've been wearing my uh swatch skin classic, which is, you know, maybe not the most traditional pick for a hodinky editor, but I don't know, there's something about a thin little plastic watch on a mesh bracelet that like it basically disappears. It's like not wearing a watch at all, which, you know, when it's a hundred degrees and ninety plus percent humidity uh is basically what I want to be wearing, not a watch. Yeah. We're lucky I wear a shirt to the office, let alone a watch when it's that hot. But uh yeah, I thought this would be it would be a fun chance to maybe, you know, we've we've recapped the watches that we're actually wearing this summer, but I want to know what watch do you want to be wearing this summer? Like what's your dream summer watch? Maybe we'll start with James this time. Uh if you could wear any watch all summer long. What's the watch you're wearing? Yeah, I mean prob probably like uh like a solid gold royal oak would be like if we're talking dream watch, it doesn't change from one season to another. If you really wanted to go summary, then I think one of the L E Royal Oak offshore divers. Like just one maybe the bright the blue-orange is kind of fun. It kind of reminds me of a Doxa Caribbean. That's probably not the direction that they wanted. Maybe they wanted the Doxa to make people think of the AP. But when I see the AP, I think, oh, that's kind of like a Doxic Caribbean, that's kind of fun. Um but yeah, it would be something like that, probably like something kind of big and silly on a rubber strap or a solid gold bracelet or something. But as long as it had the water resistance, you know, to jump off the back of my boat and Saint Chopez or whatever, I think I could probably deal. You'd you'd make it work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what is it about those watches that makes that an ideal summer watch for you? Is it is it the rubber strap? Is it the bright colors? of those uh le uh ro divers or even even the standard one in the with the black dial it's just kind of like um it it feels like uh like the summer sort of move like it in in a world where we're accepting that we're having all these expensive watches and that sort of thing. Like it's just um it's like a like it it's full summer mode. Like that watch is otherwise, you know, like a royal oak outside of that, like a uh the off the royal oak offshore outside of that context isn't really like they're very big and and kind of sometimes silly watches, but the that one especially kind of takes the big and the silly towards the world of a floaty in the pool or a great boat on the side. Or just like linen shirt and shorts like at night. Nice and casual. Yeah, totally. They look really I think they look I've always loved the way they look. I think they're really cool watch. I agree. It's a watch that on paper, uh I would not expect to like, but when you see them, like you just smile. Like they're fun, they're charming, you know. Yeah. Yeah. They have a big personality, but it's actually not that big of a watch. Which is kind of how all royal oaks roll. There's a lot like they have a lot more presence than necessarily size, which is is always nice in a watch. That'
Unknown s a good point. Cole, how about you? The obvious choice is is dive watches. And so in I used to live in a hot climate year-round. Where'd you live? I lived in uh Bangkok. Nice. Uh and I kinda wore dive watches every day, so I'm not gonna go in that direction. I won't say that's my ideal summer watch because they're just ideal watches any time, dive watches, of course, right? So I think I would uh if again we're playing this sort of alternate universe. That's the game we're playing, yeah. I imagine myself sitting on a veranda in on the outskirts of Charleston or Savannah in a nice linen suit with a UG pole router or a pipan vintage omega on.
Unknown Interesting. You're going like totally opposite direction on the banks of Como. Just like to be
Unknown That's great. Well the thing is, realistically, we're playing the alternate universe game, right? Realistically, I am going to wear a dive watch during the summer and I am going to do a lot of stuff. So that's not that fun to play. I kinda like to imagine myself sipping a nice sweet tea and thinking that those those are summer vibes to me, right? So you just earn yourself a new nickname in the office. You're sweet tea pennington from now on. Sorry, man. There we go. Yeah. So I think, yeah, it's my pick. Uh, but if we're gonna be realistic, I the diet the watch I used to use with summer activities, if you want to call it that, was uh the marathon T-Sar actually was my go-to dive watch. So that's what I used all the time. And also I don't know if you remember this brand, it's kind of it was a flash in the pan, but Nautic fish. Of course. Oh I do them, yeah. I don't I'm out of out of my depth here. It's a Fricker cased micro brand German diver from I don't know, mid two thousand. About I haven't heard about them in a long time. When I was living in a warmer climate, which is summer like but cool. John, how about G, what are you going for?
Unknown Well, I mean I feel like you can you can go in a couple of different directions with this, uh something colorful, fun, uh not too expensive that you're something that you can just kind of have on in the summer and not wear uh worry about banging it up, something like a swatch, maybe could be a good pick, uh system fifty-one, something like that. But I think you know there's a reason why we here at Hodinky had you know dive month in the summertime, right? Summertime is about dive watches, and uh you know, is there a He's throwing down coal. Yeah. I mean is there a more you know, for me the platonic ideal of uh of a dive watch and probably a watch altogether is gonna be the submariner, right? So uh I think a no date submariner is kind of like the perfect summertime watch. Like a modern you're talking like current production no date sub. Yeah, I mean that and that's a watch that's certainly um you you can jump in the pool with. Um I think any uh in in and go diving with of course obviously but uh you know at a minimum I'd want to watch that I could jump in a pool with in the summertime and not worry too much about and uh that seems like
Unknown you know the perfect one. The thing is
Unknown that's like kind of an year ro
Unknown und ideal watch. It is a I I agree. Yeah. You're right. So if you have to go summer, you gotta pick something a little crazy, you know. A sub is is the go to answer all Soft Gold blue dial sub. Yeah. There you go. So it's fun
Unknown ny. That that was actually gonna be my answer, right? It's like I would go vintage gold sub. Okay. Yeah. Maybe take it somewhere, get it waterproof properly. I don't know. I know there's there's you know back and forth on whether that's the right move, but uh you know, again if we're playing the fantasy game here get a vintage gold like a you know an eighties gold sub uh and get it waterproofed and just go to town, wear like a modern watch, beat the hell out of it, put lots of scratches on it, jump off the back of the boat. Have a good time. Yeah, for sure. It's vintage gold sub. Like have fun with it. That that's what it's there for, right? For sure. Yeah. Good picks. All right, we're gonna take this one step further. This is kind of the culmination. So it's the watch you're actually, wearing, the watch you want to be wearing, let's design the perfect summer watch. What makes the perfect summer watch? It's August, it's hot as hell, you know, it's time to have some fun. What what do you want in a watch? I think there are some basic things that you want. All right. So I think a hundred meters of water resistance is kind of a given for me for a summertime watch. Fifty is not enough? I think you I think you want the full hundred
Unknown , right? You want to be able to jump in the pool and just have no worries about it. This is gonna I mean I'm sure the comments will be loaded with this isn't a argument that everyone has, right? I but I think I would say that's totally safe to say you can do anything with a hundred meter anything that's that any of us would do. Exactly. You can do with 100 meter wave. If you're doing stuff
Unknown that you can't do with 100 meters of water resistance, hit us up in the comments and come for coal. Yeah, come at. I mean, I could be like hyper-specific. I've thought about this quite a bit. Go for it. I I would want like if if it's really pie in the sky, give me a 38mm skin diver made out of like DuraTect hardened titanium, like Citizen's titanium. Okay. I don't want anything else from Citizen. I want that metal. And uh but just like a classic H skin diver, drilled lugs, brushed all the way all the way around, a really simple like think like something like a Blanc Fawn, uh bath a scalf style handset. Just something super legible, dive watchy, no date. Um give it a black dial or a white dial, like make a few different dials, but something pretty like low profile, but light, like almost weightless on wrist. Um, a lightly domed crystal, nothing that aggressive, and then the only thing that I think I'd go really fancy with would be the bezel. And I always thought it'd be really cool if you could make a bezel that could be popped off, and then the insert could flip around to give you another option. So put the insert insert on a pinned hinge. Uh so if you maybe put the bezel to a certain point on the turn, you could expose a little piece for the edge of a Swiss Army knife. Yeah. Pop it off, flip it over, flip the bezel around inside its case, and then just push it back on. You may have just invented something for a watch. Yeah. Have you ever seen that before? But uh that way I think you could go from um I mean in my case I would want to go from a dive watch timer to a twelve hour bezel. So if I was changing time zones, I could have that and you could keep it captive in the bezel. So if you didn't want to do the simple math plus minus again, it would still be there when you put the bezel back on. Yeah. But that way you could if you wanted to order a pizza and know when it was going to arrive or go diving, you have that good bezel. And then in my case, I like a 12-hour bezel. And all the implementations I've seen of a twin-scale bezel are either that especially on a 30, 7, 38mm watch, the text should be so tiny that you couldn't uh read it effectively. So they're not that useless. Like like Tag Hoyer made some on bigger Octavias that had the twelve hour and a sixty minute count up, I think. One or the other. The MH. Okay. Yeah. Uh designation of the Octavia's but the those ones are kind of cool, but that's a much larger kind of thing. I have this like 37mm Sylvanna that like I would just recreate as new from titanium, preferably hardened, not shiny in any way. And just something that like would be an absolute beater. Like give it a an edda would be f I don't care. Like a decent edda movement. No complication, no date to worry about. Yeah. Screw it on crown, no crown cards and put it on a NATO and go. I mean it's pretty much it. That's what I think. I mean, I think you could probably also do it for like fifteen hundred bucks. Should we should we do this? Yeah, it's too much work. Nah, it's too much work. Yeah, I'm gonna say, you know, the thing that's non-negotiable for me with a watch like this is a bracelet. Like all summer, even even in NATO, which I love NATO's, even in NATO when it's as hot out, like um it's too much. Gets sweaty, it rubs, it's a whole thing. I want, I want a steel bracelet with an easy clasp, like nothing, nothing fancy. Honestly, like a vintage Rolex bracelet is great, like an old rivet style bracelet. It's light, it wears almost like a strap. It's so thin. Uh that to me is the number one thing. But I would I would say kind of similarly to you, James. Like I want something maybe like 37, 38 millimeters, not super small, but not too big either. I want something really lightweight on the wrist. Yeah, and I think like some of it comes along with vacations, so like we all own watches that you might not want to take to all parts of the world. I actually subscribe to that a lot less, but I also don't travel to a lot of legitimately dangerous places. Like sometimes shifty, but not that dangerous. And like let's say I'm in you people I get emails about this all the time and people will say, like, Oh, would you take your Rolex it to somewhere that might be dangerous where you get mugged? And I guess if you had to watch like this one I'm describing, you could even produce it without a brand, who cares? Yeah. You're not buying it for the brand's prestige. The name means almost no difference like SEO at a certain point, like who who cares? Just do something cool. And uh and then I think you wouldn't you could wear it wherever you went if you went out at night and kind of a shiftier part of town for a cheaper beer, uh you wouldn't necessarily have to worry about making uh a scene uh with what's on your wrist or or whatever. So no uh blue dial gold subs. It's not it depends on what part of town. I'm still going blue dial gold sub. Still all all day, man. That's what you're the if you could design your your one summer watch just one new one. Honestly, it's not not far off. Uh I'm gonna lose a hand in certain places. Yeah. Um what color dials are we going here? Do we feel black? Do we feel white? We feel some color. I like a silver dial. Silver dial. Just reflect a lot of light. Like the like the Sea Rambler, which I think is another perfect summer watch. Yeah. That's a really nice brush. A brush silver dial. Silver, yeah, yeah. Or brushed maybe br I don't actually know what a brushed titanium dial might look like. No idea. Yeah. Yeah. I'd I'd probably go for a brighter color. Yeah. Maybe uh like a brighter green or blue or orange I have a Halios with the like a pastel blue dial that's super summery. Yeah, that's a really pretty watch. I also love your uh polar explorer too. For sure. Summer. Yeah. I mean white with the black markers is always gonna be a winner. It's great when Patek does it, which they almost never do. Rolex almost never does it. It's great both times and it can be dressy, it can be super casual. Like yeah
Unknown . Yeah. So there's the Tissau and the you know, you can produce fiberglass
Unknown . If so, I'll link we'll link that up. If not, we'll f
Unknown ind an excuse to cover it. W Well what I'm thinking is all right, we like these uh colors, right? Fiberglass can be potentially injection molded or something like that. I don't know how it's produced. Does a marathon make a nylon? Marathon does it. Exactly. Yeah. So what if you can do this in a summer color? Alright, that's it. Crazy color case watch for the summer. James, titanium or
Unknown colored fiberglass? I don't need that kind of thing. Like if the bezel's user customizable to some level, you can put some color there. Um I think like like when you think like if it's nylon, that's fine. I'm not actually sure how well that wears over time. Like scratches are probably okay. Fiberglass, I have flat out no idea. And then you see some watches from brands like Undone, where they do a Seratoke. Sarakote. Sarakote? Yeah. Okay. A Sarakote um where they do a Saracote coating on the case and it's uh it doesn't hold up that well to any sort of damage. I mean that can kind of work in its favor as as a beater or a fun a watch, a fun cottage sort of watch. Like it doesn't have to be pristine. And the titanium, even hardened, would not remain pristine. I'm not saying that it would be scratched by anything you want to see? Anything you really enjoyed seeing this summer?
Unknown Hmm. I don't know. I'm still having trouble with the idea of a summer only watch, you know? It's not something that's I think we should we should just enjoy these these watches year round, you know?
Unknown Yeah. Yeah, but like you're not walking around uh New York City in August wearing your like wool topcoat,
Unknown right? That's fair, but the truth is in six months I might be wearing the same watch. Alright. That's fair. Yeah. That's
Unknown fair. I th I think that there are some like even if it's one you wear all year round, like I'll I'll wear my C Rambler year round. I adore the if I'm not changing time zones, that's pretty much my go to watch. I I absolutely adore it. And that's a very summary watch, a very tropical sort of watch. And as it gets warmer, and and I start stop having sleeves, and and it just kind of looks better and better as I get a little bit more tan against all that silver. Sometimes they just kind of come into their own in the summer, but obviously any watches summer's probably when we're the hardest on our watches. They're not protected by big jackets or even uh a sleeve of any sort. So I definitely while some watches are their best in the summer, it probably makes them being
Unknown good Well I think uh this winter to take my own little mental vacation I'm gonna strap on solid gold sub blue dial. All
Unknown right, let's do it. I think we can make that happen for you. So winner look. I like it. Yeah. You want to get in with James and me on this? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. We'll go splitsies. We'll have an official hodinky radio. Gold sub anybody listening to this wants to donate their uh blue dial gold sub to the uh yeah yeah just a loaner. We'll want something else by summer anyways very long-term loaner. But uh yeah, hit us up. We'll uh we'll take you up on that. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks guys, thanks for doing this, and uh love to And next up, my conversation with Daniel Miller about his podcast Larger Than Life and LA Watch Culture. Hey man, thanks for joining us today. Thanks so much for having me. Is it uh is it a little weird to be on a show that's not your show? It is. It's also weird to be in a different studio. I'm so used to our LA Times studio. Uh this is actually a bit nicer than ours, but we'll have to work on that. Yeah, you can uh you can go back and tell everybody they gotta they gotta get things up to snuff. I wanna dive right into it. Can you tell us about your podcast? Because that's kind of initially how how we got connected. Sure. So uh I am the uh writer, reporter and host of Larger Than Life, which is a podcast from the Los Angeles Times and LA Times studios. It's a podcast about a legendary street racer named Big Willie Robinson. Uh Big Willie was a six-foot-six muscle-bound titan who got started in the mid-1960s in Los Angeles, and he had an idea that he could use cars to unite people. And after the Watts riots,, uh Los Angeles needed some uniting. Um he started simply, but he wound up getting uh the powers that be attention. Um he wound up getting backing from the Los Angeles Police Department, even Mayor Tom Bradley, and uh eventually was uh able to open his own racetrack where he could really put his vision to test. It actually worked, crime went down, and people really did come together over something as simple as street racing and and drag racing. So we tell his story in seven parts and uh uh it's a privilege to to sort of dive into that world. That's awesome. And as we're recording this, the seventh episode just aired, right? That's right. So now uh all seven are out. It's uh officially bingeable. Um uh the podcast debuted in July and it's been a fascinating experience. You know, you work on something for a year and yeah, I was gonna ask how how did this how did this project come about and how long did it take? Sure. So the making of the podcast took a year. Um, but uh I actually learned about Big Willie Robinson a year earlier, back in twenty seventeen. Okay. So I was uh at the time covering the entertainment business for the Los Angeles Times. I'm a I'm a staff writer there. And uh I had been sent out to a car lot in the San Fernando Valley. There was a potential for a writer's strike, a strike by the WGA, and we wanted to do a story that would look at how local businesses might be affected by a strike. So my editor said, go check out this car lot. They outfit vehicles for Hollywood Productions with camera rigging and things like that. So I go to this car lot. It's called Picture Car Warehouse and the owner's giving me this tour and you know there's some taxi cabs from Mad Men over there. There's a Lincoln Continental from a Bud Light commercial over there. And then he stops at this broken down race car. Um it was a nineteen sixty six Plymouth Barracuda, but it was a mess. The roof was cut off, the windshield was out, tires were flat. Um and on the door it said uh National and International Brotherhood of Street Racers. And the paid the the the paint was kind of flaky, but you could make it out and he said you should know what this car is, you know, and I'm paraphrasing. This was, you know, the car of one of the most important street racers of all time. And I gave him this dumb look. It was obviously I had no idea what he was talking about. And I'm a little embarrassed to say that because I'm from LA and I'm a car guy myself. But I I didn't know who uh uh Big Willie was. I didn't know what the Brotherhood was. And um uh he starts telling me the story about Big Willie's connection to Hollywood, his connection to the mayor, even had a connection to the Los Angeles Times. He was friends with the former publisher of the LA Times. I thought I thought it was all bullshit. I just I couldn't believe it. It's that that journalist instinct that like someone's someone's feeding me a line here. Right. And so I went back to the office and I began researching Big Willy, and so much of what I was told checked out. And I knew that it was a a a great story that we had to tell and that the LA Times was uniquely situated to tell it. Um it's just this quintessential, you know, Southland tale. Um but it took a while for it to uh take form as a as a podcast and uh it wound up being a great medium for it. I mean a lot of the story takes place in the 60s and 70s. You want to hear those muscle cars revving, you want to hear the funk music of the era. That's great. Yeah, I I I think for me, like I'm I've said this on the show before, like I'm not a car guy. I I am it's it's something I am interested in that I I can get behind, but that I don't know a lot about. And I have to say listening to the show right away, you're hooked. Like it really pulls you in. And it's it's something I would say to people like if you're not, and we'll link the show up uh in in the show notes, but even if you think you maybe aren't interested in street racing, like you're gonna listen to an episode of the show and you're gonna get hooked. Like you're going to be into it. Oh well, thank you for saying that. Yeah, you know, I try to tell people, you know, uh, this is set in the world of cars and street racing in Southern California, but it is not just a car story. You've got a bit of LA history in the story and and you've got a bit of Hollywood history. Yeah. But it's really about this personality, first and foremost. I mean, he was a remarkable man. He was a complicated man, but you know, his story is just fascinating and I and I I think that you know it'll people will connect with it. Yeah. I think one one of the things that that I found interesting and that I think kind of reaches beyond the car world is he's not a native of Los Angeles. He's he's from New Orleans, but he came here and really kind of like fit the city the right way. And I don't know whether the city fit him or he fit the city or or which way, but it's a funny thing that seems to happen with LA. Like people come here and kind of it it shapes them or they shape it or or both in a way that I don't necessarily feel happens quite the same way in other places. That's interesting. But and I think it's very true. I mean, you know, LA is the city of reinvention, right? And I think that you're you're absolutely right that uh big Willie um came here and remade himself. You know, Willie Andrew Robinson III was born in New Orleans in nineteen forty two. He's a black man growing up in the segregated South. And uh he came to Los Angeles in nineteen sixty and he made himself into the character, big Willie. And I think, you know, LA is the rare place where that's possible. And you know, I'm I'm native Angelino, I grew up here. And so I I always think it's fascinating to to look at the city as a place where um, you know, people can come here and do that. I mean, look, Hollywood is a cornerstone industry here, right? I mean, we are a city of myths and myth making, and I think that he definitely fit in, you know, with that that storyline. Yeah. So you you you are from here and you're a car guy from here. What do you think is unique about LA car culture that made maybe a story like Big Big Willie's possible. Well, I think it probably sounds incredibly simplistic, but it's true. We've got a lot of roads and we've got a lot of traffic. You do have a lot of roads and a lot of traffic here. And you spend a lot of time in your car. And, you know, I am not the first person to say this, but cars have become a form or have long been a form of self-expression for people in Southern California. You know, uh it it ha it doesn't hurt that hot rod culture really developed in Southern California, street racing cul culture really developed here as well. Um over the years, a lot of um uh automakers have had their uh uh U.S. uh operations base in Southern California. Uh Nissan comes to mine, Toyota comes to mine. I believe most of those companies have now left Southern California for other states with better uh uh taxed uh deals. Um but but nonetheless, there's just long been a uh a really vibrant car culture here. Um, and so uh, you know, Big Willie was always interested in cars. He his father was a body and fender man back in New Orleans. So when he came out to Los Angeles, um, he kind of had that in his blood already, but he was coming at an incredibly uh vibrant time in the car scene. So he arrives in 1960, and you know, um, it's not not yet the muscle car era, but it's soon going to be. And by the mid-60s, you have companies like Ford and Chevy, et cetera, just, you know, in this arms race, cramming the biggest V8s they can into their coops. And um, you know, he certainly benefited from that. Uh and uh he of course drove some badass cars. Yeah. Um you you mentioned also he had this Hollywood connection and and one of the figures that kind of I won't say looms large in the story but but pops up and certainly makes an impact is is Paul Newman. That's right. So obviously l,isteners of uh Hodenkey Radio will have probably heard many stories about Paul Newman at this point. Yeah, he's he's around, I guess. Yeah. So Big Willie knew Paul Newman and uh uh Big Willie met Newman on the set of W USA, which was a a a film that Newman starred in that um uh came out in nineteen seventy, I want to say. Um this movie was about um a a a radio host at a radio station in the South, uh, and it's very political. And one of the scenes in the movie calls for a riot to break out. And um, as part of this scene, Big Willy and many other street racers from his group, the Brotherhood of Street Racers, appeared as extras. Um, now the way that came to be is a trip. So basically, this scene was meant to be filmed at uh the sports arena, which was an arena now been demolished in South Los Angeles. But word got out in South LA that there was meant to be an actual riot, film that not for filming, but an actual riot that this was going to be oh no some sort of disaster taking place. And you know, it's a game of telephone. It's not quite clear what exactly what people thought, but people were on edge. And so Big Willy was actually um uh brought in to try to keep the peace and that's how he connected with Newman and in a show of appreciation Newman puts Willie and his pals in the movie. Uh I wound up uh speaking to uh uh Paul Newman's sister-in-law, who told me a little bit about um uh her husband's recollections, Arthur Newman, uh, Paul's brother, also worked on this film. Uh Arthur Newman had a brotherhood jacket, uh, which I got to try on. You So um uh Big Willy just touched people's lives in a surprising way, and this is one of those examples. And and you have been not just a car guy, but you you grew up in the LA car world, right? Yeah, that's right. Um so my family uh had car dealerships. So I come from three generations of LA car dealers. Uh uh the dealerships have since closed. Um, but it was a big part of my childhood. I grew up um kind of on the car lot in Culver City, uh not too far from where we're recording this. Um uh the dealerships were called Culver City Import Group. It was Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, Suzuki, and Hyundai. I, you know, I have incredible memories of uh of the dealerships. Um I drive my grandfather's 1972 Dotson 240Z. Nice. So it's uh a little bit of a connection to that uh part of our our family's history. Um and you know, I think I I think that through that experience I've seen firsthand how cars can unite people, which was really Big Willie's idea, and I know that it can sound kind of Pollyanna, but you know whenever I drive that Z, uh I see how people, you know, connect with it. They want to talk about it. They want to tell me a story about their Z. It's nothing special. It's not a fancy car. But you know, it allows you know people to to get together and just start talking and once you start talking you break down barriers. Yeah. And were were you involved in the racing culture at all, or was that something you discovered through doing this show? I was not involved in the racing culture. Well, you know everybody has done their share of you know um red light to red light uh racing. Um but no I I have not um I have not uh done any series racing. But I will say as as part of this podcast, I did get some drag racing instruction. Um I figured look, if I am gonna tell the story, I need to have a sense of what it's like to actually do this. So I went out to um a drag strip at Irwindale Speedway. They got an eighth mile strip and got a little bit of instruction. I brought the 240 Z, uh which only has about 150 horsepower, so it's not gonna, you know, uh uh set the lights on fire or anything like that. Um, but uh uh I came away with a real respect for what it takes to to drag race to street race. Um, you know, there was nobody in the grandstand. It was just me and um my producer and uh photographer, but I was sweating bullets. You know, you wanna hit you know, you wanna hit the light just right, get a perfect time and uh I I really have to appreciate what it takes to do that. Yeah, I mean it's gotta be it's gotta be a little scary that first time, right? Oh yeah. I mean first of all, I I was sweating bullets because I was nervous, but also because it was uh a scorching summer day and when you're drag racing you've gotta have your windows up the air conditioning off. The air conditioning barely works in in that car anyways. So um it was like being in a sauna trying to drop the clutch at just the right RPM. Uh it was nerve-wracking to say the least. That's awesome. So we got connected through through your show, but I then found out that you've been following what we're doing for a while 'cause you're a watch guy too. That's right. No, and I would say that Hodenkey really kind of nurtured my my uh love and and passion for watches. Oh well thank you. That's good to hear. Um I got into watches in earnest around twenty eleven. I'd always been into them as a kid. I have this memory of um I was like a bit of an insomniac as a child and I have this memory of this digital Dick Tracy watch that um I had that uh it wasn't backlit. So if I wanted to see what time it was at night when I was in bed unable to sleep, I'd have to get a flashlight out and look at it. Uh that's my first watch. The original loom. Yeah the uh the flashlight loom. Exactly. Non-radium. Um so I've always been interested in watches. Um and but but it be but it got serious for me around 2011. Um I was getting married that year, and um my aunt had my late grandfather's gold dress watch. It was a beautiful Beaumarcier gold watch from the from the 60s. Pretty classic, you know, and uh typical of that era. Um and she uh wanted to wear it after he passed away and she had had some of the integrated bracelet removed to fit her wrist. And then the idea was that she and my mother would give it to me uh so that I'd wear it at my wedding. Um uh of course it didn't fit me because the bracelet had been sized down. And so we took it to a shop called Feldmar um in West Los Angeles, which is where my family had been going for years, to have um have the bracelet uh worked on and it needed a service, it needed a new crystal. It just had been kind of ignored for a while. And I remember talking to the to the watchmakers at Feldmar and going over the plan for the watch and and how they would uh elongate the bracelet and add some gold to it so that it fit my wrist. And I didn't know much about, you know, mechanical movements or anything like that, but I remember just being so taken by um the process, you know, the the details, the the the craftsmanship and the these guys could bring this watch back to life that had been my grandfather's. And of course they did and I wore it on my wedding day and I wear it on special occasions. And I think that really kickstarted it for me. Do you think that appreciation came so quickly and so easily because of your love of cars that like you sort of had a foothold in this like world of old mechanical things. I think that's probably true. And I think that you know people have kind of a collector's gene. Yeah. Uh or just a sense of, you know, or a passion for bringing things back to life. You know, whether it's an old car or a broken watch. You know, the sense that you can take something that, you know, somebody else might uh you know think should be on a scrap heat and and bring it back to life is is exciting. Um and so I think there's probably a through line there. Um, you know, not every why watch that I have purchased or worn w in the intervening years has a great story like that. I've made a lot of stupid decisions on eBay, but you know, I've learned as basically all of us have. Yeah. Um what what are some watches over the years that you've you've maybe accumulated that that have stuck with you that that weren't eBay mistakes? Sure. So I'm wearing one right now. So I'm wearing a a reverse panda uh bright link top time from the sixties. And this for me was um this for me was my first kind of grail watch. Um I think I probably read about it on Hodenky, you know, seeing a list of other other watches. Uh there was actually a pretty influential story for me on your website. I think it was a list of ten under the radar or affordable vintage watches. Oh yeah. Um that that that readers should consider. I think this might have been on that list. Um I don't know what it is, maybe it's the reverse panda configuration, but I I just had to have one of these. This one I bought broken on eBay for something like six hundred dollars. Um I didn't know what I was doing. Um I wound up getting it serviced obviously. Um, and this one is one I wouldn't ever sell. Um yeah, you know, I I'm I'm a kind of a tool watch guy. Chronographs and dive watches from the 50s, 60s, and 70s really speak to me. Um lately I'm really into dive watches, I have to say. Yeah. What was it like getting so you you get this Brightling on eBay? You said you you didn't really know what you were doing. So what what made you want to buy a broken mechanical watch that you didn't know how to fix on eBay and then kind of like make it a project. I am so glad that you asked me this. So I know that some of the watch collectors and listeners are probably gonna throw open their mouths when I say this. Perfect. But I have to say, under the right circumstances, buy a broken watch. Um, and here's the reason why I started buying broken watches on eBay. When I first got into um uh watch collecting around 2011, I was so terrified of buying a counterfeit watch. I must have read a story on Hodenkey or somewhere else, or heard some horror story about some fake Rolex or something like that. And I was just so worried about getting conned and didn't want to be that guy. And so my logic at the time was who would take the time to sell a counterfeit broken watch. If you're gonna counterfeit a watch, it's gonna be working and it's gonna be pristine. So by buying a broken watch, I can inoculate myself from the world of counterfeit watches. It's super funny. I've never heard that strategy before, but it actually like that theory seems to hold water. Like that makes a lot of sense. I mean if you're gonna take the time to counterfeit a watch and sell it, like it's probably gonna work. Right. And so um I began buying some broken watches. Now look obviously not all watches should be brought broken and there's certain problems with the watch that are just huge red flags. But look, if you're if you're looking at um a chronograph from the sixties that had an unsigned crown, you know, an unsigned crown. And and the one you're looking at on eBay doesn't have a crown on it, you know? That might deter some other people from making a bid, but it could be that you wind up with a watch that's pretty easy to fix and maybe you got a good deal on it. Um and and also I have to say that I think I have a a bit of an appetite for it because um so many watches on eBay, it's just the wild west. You buy a watch that's supposed to be working perfectly and it still needs a service, right? Right. So, you know, uh I would say easily more than half of the watches I bought that are allegedly working need need need a total service. Um and then sometimes it works the other way. I bought this watch. I've since sold it. It was a doobie sheldon brand um index mobile, which is sort of a poor man's um split second chronograph. Okay. They took a Venus movement or a Landorun movement and modified them so that it could perform like a split second chronograph. And I I remember buying this watch. Um it had blurry photos and like a one-line description. And I don't remember what the description was, but it gave me a sense that the person didn't know how to operate a mechanical watch, didn't understand that it needed to be wound. So I bought the watch, you know, m for not very much money. Uh it came in the mail and um it was allegedly broken, not working. I wind the watch and it starts ticking. I think that the person just didn't understand what what to do with this watch. So I wore it for a little while and tried to replace the battery and couldn't find out where it goes. You know what it might have mentioned, like needs a new battery. Okay. And I looked at this watch and was like, that watch does not have a battery in it. I'm gonna buy it and see what's up. And that might have been it. Um so look, I guess you have to have an appetite for some risk and you know, y you have to be willing to take a loss or two, but it's it's it's fun. It's part of it, you know? How did you go about when the Brightling arrived, if this was the this was kind of the first project? How did you go about finding people to do the work? Like finding people who are who are skilled at this and who you can kind of trust to do it the way you want it done is not the easiest thing in the world as as most vintage collectors will know. And how how did you take this kind of broken brightling that you got on eBay and and get it working again and kind of get get yourself into a place where you could you could start buying watches to restore? Sure. So uh in this case I took the watch to Feldmar um uh which has you know fantastic watchmakers who were able to bring it back to life. You know, since then I've become more educated, particularly with buying broken watches, if you're gonna do that, you it helps to have a network of people who can advise you. So, you know, Jeff Stein from On the Dash, I've definitely peppered Jeff with um, you know, uh emails with pictures of watches asking for his uh, you know, perspective. Um, I, you know, ultimately wound up um uh being a client of Eric Wynn and buying a watch from Eric. So I've definitely sent Eric some nasty watches. He's told me to avoid at all costs. I have been there too. Thank you, Eric. And then so you know it's kind of like one thing that's so great about the watch collecting community is that people are generous with their time and with their knowledge so that, you know, you can find the shop that works on vintage brightlings. Um in the case of vintage brightlings, it's a it's a shop back east called Horological Services and they've got a BrightLink, they've got a Chronomat seven six nine of mine that they're working on now. Um and so I think that that's what's really great about this community, that people want to help you. And so I definitely take advantage of that. That's great. So you said you' youre're into dive watches recently. What uh what kind of dive watches are we talking here? So for a while I was into super compressors with the um with the internal rotating bezel, but and I uh uh I bought a couple of those and they didn't they were uncomfortable, you know, the the dual crowns dug into my wrists and you know, I think those watches were having kind of a moment a couple years ago, but they didn't work for me. And actually it took a time it took a while for me to get comfortable with saying, this doesn't work for me. I'm gonna sell these and move on. Um and but I've recently become fixated on uh late 50s early 60s divers um you know um like a seamaster 300 um or a brightling Super Ocean 1004. That watch is definitely my new Grail watch. I'm obsessed with that watch. And that watch has a concave bezel. And um I I think I discovered it via uh Phil Toledano's Instagram. Oh man, Phil Phil is the king of like weird, kind of strange out-of-left field watches. Shout out to Phil if you're listening to this. Yeah, I mean, these watches are beautiful. The loom is outrageous, the hands are outrageous, and it's got this gorgeous outrageous is a perfect word for that watch. Yeah. And it's got this concave bezel. And you know, I think I've read uh that these bezels were designed this way to protect the crystal. It's not totally clear. Um, maybe as for legibility, but they're just beautiful and there's just something about that concave bezel that gets me. It's like one of these design traits that, you know, maybe was born out of a um a practical, you know, reason, right, to protect the crystal, but it's become just an aesthetic thing at this point. They're just beautiful. Yeah. And for people who don't who don't know exactly what you're referring to, you're referring to the bezel that it's almost like a like a dish, right? Like it curves up at the outer edges and then down into where the crystal is. That's right. Sort of like the opposite of what a typical bezel would be. That's right. And um you know, I've seen some people say that it seems a preposterous design. It seems like it would actually funnel water toward the crystal. Oh, that's funny. I actually that makes sense. Yeah. Right. Um But you know, one thing that I really like about this era, late 50s, early 60s, is that these watch companies were figuring things out with dive watches, right? Yeah. And that this was a competition really for depth rating and you know legibility. And I think that some of the most exciting eras uh in, you know, um watch history are ones that involve those competitions. So whether it's the dive watch is the late 50s um or you know, the race for the automatic chronograph in the late nineteen sixties. I think that obviously competition brings out the best in these companies and you see these iconic designs that live on fifty, sixty years later. Yeah. Yeah, you said it's it's when people were figuring things out. And I I think that's an important thing to kind of put in context, right? Is like the the Submariner only came about in nineteen fifty three. Like so if we're talking late fifties, early sixties, this is less than a decade after the very first dive watches. So this is this is really still uncharted territory for most watchmakers. Right. Right. So the submariner comes out and uh and what the the Blanc Pond fifty fathoms is at around the same time. Yep. And you know uh Omega has to respond, Brightling has to respond. And um all those designs, I mean, it's remarkable, just those four that we've named, I mean, they all live on either in modern watches or in reissues. I mean, these companies keep going back to the well because, you know they really, you know, they captured something at that moment. Yeah. How would you describe that? What they captured? Like what is what is the kind of like essence there that you think makes these kind of so enduring? Well I think that, you know, their credentials as true tools that, you know, uh world famous divers and oceanographers, you know, you know, took to great depths. I mean, that sort of speaks for itself. And we don't have to go through that history. But I think that, you know, each of those in their own way really, you know, uh aesthetically, they're just kind of perfect. I mean, they're they're totally different. The the super ocean uh that we mentioned earlier. I mean, it's pretty different from a sub from that era, right? Yeah. Um, but I I think that each of them just captured a little bit of magic, right? I mean, it's it's hard to put into words, but you look at those watches, and I think that even a lay person who's not interested in in in time pieces just can just know like that is a good design. Yeah. Well you brought a couple of watches with you. Can we uh can we take a look at those? I did. Now I'm not trying to turn this into talking watches. I know that's the one. No, that' fsine'.s That uh that's fine. So I the concave bezel that I mentioned earlier, I do have a dive watch with one of these bezels. It is a Gruin Ocean Chief, which actually was another eBay find. Um now I believe that this watch has the same that's super cool. I believe this that this watch has the same case and bezel as the Brightling Super Ocean one zero zero four. So in a way, I don't have one of those, but I've got this. Um and and I also love watches that sort of speak to these strange partnerships. You know, there's not a lot of scholarship on it, but this um this connection between Gruen and Brightling, you know, I wonder how did it come to be and you know and there's another watch here that I'll show you that is similar to that. So this is a Waltham MC4 dive watch. So this watch, um according to what I've read, has the same case and bezel as uh a Blanc Pon uh Bathyscoff. Um it's a smaller dive watch, I think it's like thirty four millimeters. Um but um uh again, this strange partnership between BlancPon and Waltham. You know, Waltham was sort of petering out as an American watch company around this time, and so I gather they might have contracted with Blanc Pon to uh produce watches with their name on it. You know, those stories that are sort of kind of lost to history that still are not totally unearthed. I just I just love 'em. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, and this Waltham is is Swiss made, which in that era would have been would have been unusual. Yeah absolutely. Yeah, this is this this is a really interesting era and I think you're right that this like, you know, right before the kind of courts crisis or you know, about twenty years before the courts crisis. Uh there were still all these little brands that today don't exist or exist in a very different state than they did, but this was kind of the last decade or so of this massive Swiss industry that had, you know, hundreds and hundreds of watch brands making watches at all kinds of price points. Because if you were somebody who only had X amount of money to spend on a watch, you were still buying a Swiss mechanical watch. You weren't, you know, buying some quartz watch from from China or something. You know, it really that didn't exist yet. Sure. And it's a little bit like, you know, we spoke about the competition in the late fifties and then again in the late sixties. It's a little bit of that angle too. You know, you have Waltham maybe clawing for survival at the time as a as an independent company and needs to introduce a legit dive watch. So they partner with Blanc Pond. I mean I love the idea, you know, you I I'm a business reporter by trade and I love the idea of, you know, companies in crisis and whether that brings out the best of them, you know, or not. Yeah, that's super interesting. And to see these two watches side by side, it's interesting to think that like these these were created at roughly the same time and they're two completely different approaches to solving the same problem. Yeah, and um and uh I just you know I I I don't know what it is. I am looking at the bezel right now. You know it's hard to photograph that concave bezel on the um on the gruen, but um it's just the little things on both those watches that stand out that really do it for me. And it doesn't help that you've got some radioactive loom. Or or rather, it doesn't hurt that you have some radioactive loom. Yeah. That's awesome. You've also got a couple of racing watches here, right? Which seems seems only fitting. I do. So um this was um a watch that uh Eric Wind helped me with, um Viceroy Ottavia. Um and when I went out to the drag strip uh at Irwindale for uh the Big Willie uh uh Robinson podcast, I uh made sure I had that on my wrist. I didn't actually use it to time any of my runs, quite honestly. I think I'd be pretty embarrassed if I had by by the time. Um but uh you know the uh again the that race for the automatic chronograph in nineteen sixty nine I think is just you know so fascinating and yeah. I always wanted to own one of these to, you know, uh have one of the pieces that represents that era. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, one of the first stories I ever edited for Hodinky way back in the day was uh Jeff Stein's story about this watch. And and at the time I was I was relatively novice, you know, I I really was just getting deep, deep into the watch world. And I remember seeing this story about, you know, it was a story about technology and movement, it was a story about style and pop culture. It was a story about the like changing smoking habits of the American public. Like it was it was a business story. It was crazy and it kind of touched all these different worlds. And we'll link it up in in the show notes. But I remember seeing this story and being like, oh, like this is this is what watches can be. Like these, these are the stories we can tell about them. And it it's not a watch. I've I've never owned one of these watches. Um, you know, but I I always see them and and kind of think fondly back on that story and and that moment of realizing like, oh, these these things can be sort of like markers of culture in addition to like beautiful little things that we that we wear. Yeah, I mean just so evocative of the era, right? A watch that you could get a deal on with uh your um cigarette purchase, right? If you if you bought enough Vice Royce cigarettes, you'd get a you'd get a break on your chronograph. Yeah, right. So for people who don't know, you should you should read the story, which we will link to in the show notes. But uh the sort of like nut of the of the story, the kernel of the story is is that viceroy cigarettes, if you send in so many proofs proof-of-purchase uh little certificates off your cigarette boxes, you could buy a Hoyer chronograph at a steep discount uh as a way to try to, hey, Hoyer was trying to get more chronographs on people's wrists and Vice Roy needed to buoy uh cigarette sales. So it was this weird confluence of these two companies trying to both kind of make it. Yeah, an unlikely promotion these days, I think it's fair to say. Yeah, I think that would be a little bit of a a little bit of a struggle. I don't think Tag is uh gonna be partnering with any cigarette brands anytime soon. But uh may maybe I'm wrong, but that's that's my guess. Uh and then you have an omega here as well. Yeah, so this is an omega Chrono stop. Uh and again, I think this was on that hodunky list of, you know, ten, you know, uh affordable or overlooked vintage watches you should, you know, look at. Um I love this because of its uh horizontal driver configuration. So yeah. So you wear this on the inside of your wrists and then while you're driving you can just glance down at your wrists uh and easily see what time it is. Um you know, that's an eBay find. I think I bought that for 400 bucks on eBay. It looks uh this is a damn nice watch for 400 bucks. So, but you know, the other side of the story is that I buy the watch, it's supposedly working for 400 bucks. I go to set it, and you know, the crown comes out in my hand Not great. The perils of eBay, right? A working watch that suddenly wasn't working and needed a service. It's a signed crown though. It is a signed crown on that one. Um, you know, that's just a fun watch. You know, it's an accessible watch I think you know that watch watch collecting can be so intimidating and when you're first getting started you you don't know you know um what you should be buying you don't know you know whether you're buying a counterfeit watch or not, but like this is a watch that you can buy easily for less than a thousand bucks and it's got style, it's it's vintage, it looks like it's from the sixties, right? And you know, I think it should be fun and I think it should be easy for people. Yeah, I I totally agree. And you know, that's something we've we've always pushed for at Hodinky is is the idea that you don't need to spend tens of thousands of dollars to get a nice watch. You can for a couple hundred bucks or even less buy buy a cool watch and a watch that has a story or a watch that you can give a story to. Um and yeah, I think watch culture has has changed a lot. And you know, maybe the it sounds like a very simple argument, but like the the explosion on social media and the internet and the kind of like democratization of of information, I think is a big a big part of that. I mean forget the fact that there wouldn't have been eBay twenty, thirty years ago for for you to buy watches on, but also just like learning about it and connecting with folks like Eric and Phil and and Jeff would have been much harder back then. Whereas now it's it's kind of much easier to build this community and for new people to kind of get pulled in. Absolutely. I mean, obviously, we you know, I know that on this on this podcast you guys have spoken at length about Instagram and what it's done for the watch community, but it's really remarkable how quickly um you can get up to speed. You know, you follow a couple Instagram accounts, maybe you reach out to one or two of the the people behind them. And like I said, people are so generous with their time in this community. And as a reporter, like I'm inclined to ask questions, right? So I will I will happily annoy somebody. I will happily annoy Jeff Stein to get the answer. Uh it's part of my job. I'm used to it. Um and uh but but no, I I think that like uh even from twenty eleven when I first became seriously interested in watches, it's just amazing the amount of information and the resources No, well thank you. I'm uh I think it's interesting. You know, the people you've mentioned so far are actually none of them are based in LA. You know, you've got you've got Phil in New York, you've got Eric in in Florida and New York, you've got uh you've got Jeff down in in Atlanta. But what what have you found the watch culture to be like in LA? 'Cause I I first started coming out here on a regular basis a few years ago and found the watch culture here to be every bit as vibrant as as the watch culture in a place like New York, let's say or London, um, but in a sort of different way. Uh can you can you maybe tell me what you've you've experienced? Sure. So I think that it's kind of bifurcated uh in Los Angeles because I think that the Hollywood community is uh has has a really vibrant watch collecting scene. But you know, that's not so accessible. It's in in some cases very high end, right? Um but but I think that if you know where to to look and and you know who to connect with, you know, uh th there is a world that, you know, is just as open and, you know, um and um uh sharing as uh as as any other. I mean I I happened to be on Spike Fairenson's podcast recently. And you know, he's a serious watch guy himself and you know, um, he had a ho uh a vintage hoyer on his wrist and was, you know, happy to talk about it. Um so I think that uh it may not be what it is in New York where you have, you know, the horological society putting on um, you know, uh regular events, right? And and you've got, you know, really important watch boutiques and, you know, companies like yours headquartered there. But I think it's growing um and uh uh and I think it's you know in in some small way it's fun to be part of that. That's great. Do you do you find a lot of tie-in direct tie-ins and and kind of overlap with the watch community and the car community. I mean you mentioned spike, but is that something you find a lot of? You know, I actually me personally no. Um but but I I know that it it I know that it's true. I think it just depends on you, know who, you're tight with, right? Um but but but there are just so many obvious overlaps, right? And and Spike's a good example, you know, with this incredible collection of cars, including Porsches and of course watches as well. Um I just think there's just a a natural through line there. You know, if you've got the collector's gene for for cars, um watches are probably, you know, not too far down the road. Yeah. You mentioned wearing the Otavia while you were reporting out larger than life. And I wonder, did you have any experiences while reporting the show that you either somebody recognized your watch or you spotted a watch on somebody's wrist? Like, did that I know it's it doesn't come up in the show itself really, but were there any kind of funny moments as you were reporting this out where that kind of creeped in? I will share a story with you. I I didn't have an actual moment where uh you know I saw uh watch on somebody's uh wrist, but I do I I can say this. So we mentioned earlier that Paul Newman is part of the story. And um I um I went to uh the Palm Springs area to interview his sister in law, Patty Newman. Patty is married to Arthur, Paul's brother. And um I just felt like: can I somehow bring up watches in this conversation and just see what happens? You know, maybe, you know, we all know about the Paul Newman Daytonum, maybe there's Arthur Newman Daytona. If we had any doubts that you were re a reporter, there we go. Now now we know. Right. So I tried to find some sort of artful way to bring up watches. And and I did, and Patty, who was so gracious and so happy to speak with me, started mentioning, you know, yeah, uh, Paul gave Arthur some watches over the years, and Arthur has his own watches as well. Um, and um he wasn't there at the time. And and she said, let me see if I can find some of them. You know, we're we're curious to know more about them. Maybe you can help us. So obviously my head spinning, wondering, you know, uh what's gonna be put on the table, some sort of outrageous uh Daytona or something like that or vintage hoyer. Um ultimately Patty could not find any of the watches. I think that they might have been locked up in a safe she didn't have the code for um But that was sort of uh uh I I left that interview obviously so pleased to have spent some time with Ern to learn more about Arthur Newman and Paul Newman, but obviously um just wondering, man, what what what what could have been. That's oh man. Now we gotta now we gotta report this out. Now we gotta figure out what these what these watches are. I know that's the follow-up podcast. I think that what I I think that one of the watches that Patty mentioned was a a was a watch that Paul had gifted to Arthur that he had received as part of his participation um maybe as the driver of the pace car in in a in a uh race. Um I don't remember if it was IndyCar or NASCAR or something like that. Um I and I wanna say that she had a sense that it might have been a tag. Um but again don't quote me on that. Um uh it's a it's sort of this unanswered question that looms. Yeah. So so speaking of unanswered questions, so I I don't want to spoil larger than life for people 'cause it it takes some really distinct twists and turns over over the seven episodes, and I I really personally recommend that everybody listening to this go go subscribe and listen to the show uh when when you're done here. But uh are there any things that kind of cropped up as as you were recording and reporting that didn't make it into the final cut that were things that like it really hurt to leave them on the cutting room floor. Little anecdotes, little stories. Yes. I mean, you know the phrase kill your darlings. Um I am not so good at that. And and uh we had a wonderful team of people who made this podcast both at the LA Times and with a production company called Neon Hum Media. So uh from the executive producer to the producer and editor, um w everyone wanted what was best for the show. And sometimes that meant um losing that great story because not not because it was, you know, um uh a bad tale or not interesting, but because it just maybe didn't have the velocity needed, right? You know, podcast and audio storytelling or it's so much about the velocity of the story. Uh one that comes to mind is uh I flew out to Indianapolis last year to go see the auctioning of one of Big Willie Robinson's cars. Um really his last remaining uh Dodge Charger Daytona. This was a non-Hemi car uh that he called the um Duke and Duchess Daytona, and it was sold at the Meekum auctions uh in May of 2018. So I went there and I and I got a lot of great audio. I I I spoke to sort of um visitors to the car auction who who had heard of Big Willy and started sharing wild stories from back in the day. And the car wound up selling for something like two hundred and three thousand dollars uh with the buyer's premium and you had this climactic scene with the the auctioning of the car. Um it just it just didn't work in in the episode where we uh tried it out. And um you know, I remember, you know, the the the three or four days I spent in in Indy trying to tell this part of the tale and ultimately wound up on the cutting room floor and that and that was certainly painful. Uh it lives on um on our website. You know, we have a beautiful website for the podcast. Um you can find it at LA Times dot com. Um and uh it lives on there. There's videos of the auction and some some beautiful photos. Great. But that was yes, that was a painful cut and there were other there were definitely others. So if we look to then the future, right? So all seven episodes are out now. Um what's the kind of next big story you're chasing? Well, I think um uh I think I need a break from the world of cars. Um I've long covered um the entertainment industry. Um you know, I love these quintessential LA tales that say something bigger than just Los Angeles. You know, Big Willie's story is is um the story of this complicated man and it's uh it's it's a hopeful story in the end. Um you know the process of unearthing this tale that you know um had largely been lost was just so much fun and I think that's what I look for um in stories. Um but but but because I'm an Angelino and because I work for the LA Times, I want a story that can that can say something about our city, whether it's uh a moment in time in the past or even now. I think that, you know, that's our duty as reporters at our paper to to bring Los Angeles to the world. Um obviously LA's kind of having a moment. It's such a vibrant place, whether it's the food scene or the art scene. Um and uh uh I can't wait to get started. I just I don't know what it's gonna be. Alright. We'll uh we'll definitely make sure people know when you get started on something. And uh again, I I've said it before about everybody who's listening to this, go listen to larger than life. We will have all the links for you to the LA Times website, to the feed so you can go subscribe. Uh the show's awesome and I'm really glad we connected. I don't think I would have found it if we hadn't. Uh and I'm I'm really excited to to share it with people. I appreciate that very much. Awesome. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. And without further ado, Joe Thompson
Unknown . Hello gang. It's good to be back on Hidinky Radio. Steven and Gray, have asked me to talk a little bit about what's on my radar at the moment. And the answer is Hong Kong. I am closely following developments there. Probably most of you know that for the past few months now, pro-democracy demonstrators in Hong Kong have been agitating against the pro-Beijing local government. The streets of Hong Kong, despite police denial. Hundreds of thousands of prot
Unknown esters marched in Hong Kong Sunday. All flights out of Hong Kong have been cancelled. Look
Unknown at these pictures from inside the area. There have been demonstrations every weekend for the past nine weekends. It's become a full blown political crisis, and everybody agrees it's the worst crisis to hit Hong Kong since the handover from the United Kingdom to China in 1997. As Hudinki's business reporter, I'm looking at this because it's beginning to have an impact on the Swiss watch industry. As I see it, the industry's two-year recovery is now at risk because of the developments in Hong Kong. And let me explain why. First of all, Hong Kong is Switzerland's top watch market. This seems ridiculous when you think that the population of Hong Kong is 7.4 million people, and the population of the number two market, the United States of America, is 300 plus million people, 43 times larger. And yet, Hong Kong has larger watch sales than we do. Now there are a number of explanations for this. The biggest is that Hong Kong is a remarkable shopping mecca. It has no sales tax. People from all over the world flock there. And also it has benefited lately from consumers from China who go there for bargains as does everybody else. So for me, the red light started to flash when we saw the Hong Kong export numbers for June. In June, Swiss exports to Hong Kong collapsed. They fell 27%, and to show the impact on the global market, through May, global exports were up 4.1%, which is pretty good. So the Swiss were happy with the 4.1 increase. But just in that one month, global exports at the end of June, one month later, had fallen to 1.4%. We have not seen the July data, but it's not going to be pretty. Now we've seen this movie before and not long ago. In January 2015, Hong Kong fell into a slump. It lasted for 25 months. And the result of Hong Kong's downturn was a downturn for the industry. Swiss watch exports fell 3% in 2015 and 10% in 2016. Now in the spring 2017, Hong Kong began It recovered. Plus 3% in 2017 and plus 10% in 2018. So the moral of the story is: as Hong Kong goes, so goes And that's why what's happening there is so important. So a couple more points to consider. One is the gray market. In the downturn of 2015-2016, you may remember, inventories in Hong Kong soared and created an enormous gray market problem for the industry. The poster watch for this problem was Cartier. Richmond, in order to deal with that problem, decided finally to wage a tremendous battle against excess inventory in the marketplace. And what they decided to do was to buy up all the Cartier's in the Hong Kong market. They spent $305 million in 2016 to prevent them from going on to the gray market. Now the SWATS group has also found religion. Just last year they started a battle against the gray market, and that has picked up this year. In the first half of 2019, the Schwatz group has spent at least a hundred million Swiss francs battling the gray market. So my question now to watch is to see whether or not a slump in Hong Kong creates more inventory and we have some sort of repeat of this gray market drama that occurred just four years ago. Another thing to watch is the US market. The question is can the world's number two market help the industry weather the storm in Hong Kong? This is a warning we're going to get a little wonky here with data and I can feel your eyes rolling out there, but hear me out. In my forty two years ofing cover the industry, the US and Hong Kong have swapped the title of Top Watch Export Market four times. In 1982, the US took it from Hong Kong. And then in 1988, Hong Kong took it back. Ten years later, in 1998, during the Asian financial crisis, the US took the title back from Hong Kong. And then in 2009, during our subprime mortgage crisis, Hong Kong became number one, which is where they are now. But notice that every 10 years or so, since 1988, these two markets have swamped. And here we are, 10 years after 2009. So if history's any guide, the US is due to regain the crown. Hey, I'm not predicting it. I'm just saying that it's worth watching. It was interesting in January at SIHH. Every chief executive I talked to had concerns about the political and economic forecast for 2019. They were worried about the trade war between They were worried about Brexit. They were worried about stock market turbulence that we saw last December, worried about the slowing Chinese economy, yellow vest demonstrations in France, the US shutdown, all of this was affecting the market, all of this was going on in January, and had them worried. One factor, interestingly enough, that actually helped the industry was Brexit, and as an example of how these political forces can make a difference on the industry. In the first quarter of this year, Swiss watch exports were up by 4.4%. Hey, not bad. Oddly enough though, only one market accounted for 94% of that growth. Which market do you think that was? China? No. Hong Kong? No. How about the US? No, not the US. The market was the UK. Why the UK? Well, because the UK was scheduled to leave the EU at the end of March, March 31st, 2019. It didn't happen, but in the run-up to it, British retailers stockpiled all kinds of goods, including Swiss watches, because of a fear of what was going to happen once Brexit really did go into effect, and the fear is that there's going to be tremendous dislocation in getting supplies in and out of the country. Brexit is now scheduled for october thirty first. Will there be more stockpiling? Will Brexit help? Or will Brexit hurt? One of the reasons I mention all this today is that for me, it's interesting to see how these global political and economic developments impact the industry. So that as a business reporter for the industry, I like to try and at least understand what it is that is causing the ups and downs that we might see in the sales data, in the export data, because it does have real-world consequences. There are these unforeseen events that really can have a very, very strong impact on the market. Look what happened when there was an anti-corruption campaign in China in 2012. Nobody saw that coming. But it had dramatic effect for certain brands, for certain markets, as a consequence of that one change of policy in China, lawn jeanes became a billion-dollar brand because people shifted from wearing omegas to wearing lawn jeans in China. So these things do have implications, market to market, brand to brand, who's up, who's down, and to the extent that I can help to clarify for myself and for the gang, that's what I'm trying to do. So where are we going in the second half? I have no clue. Will the Hong Kong demonstrations continue to hurt that market? Will Brexit help in the second half as it did in the first, or will it hurt? Will it happen at all? Will the trade wars that are now starting to affect the value of the Swiss franc between the US and China hurt? I have no idea. All I know is there will be an impact on the Swiss watch industry. It could be a rough second half. We've got our eye on it. Stay tuned
Unknown . This week's episode was recorded at Hodinky HQ in New York City and the Network Studios in Los Angeles, California. It was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show. It really does make a difference for us. Thank you, and we'll see you next week.