The Best Watches of 2019¶
Published on Mon, 1 Jul 2019 04:00:16 +0000
A look at the hottest watches, biggest misses, and clearest trends of the year so far.
Synopsis¶
In this mid-year roundtable episode, the Hodinkee editorial team gathers to assess the first six months of 2019 in the watch industry. The hosts—Stephen Pulvirent, Jack Forster, John Mayer, and James Stacy—discuss the landscape following major industry events including Baselworld, SIHH, and Swatch Group's Time to Move. A dominant theme emerges around the scarcity of stainless steel sports watches from brands like Rolex and Patek Philippe, with extensive discussion about whether this represents intentional brand strategy or market forces beyond manufacturer control. The team debates parallels to other industries and brands like Patagonia that operate on century-long planning horizons.
The conversation covers favorite new releases of 2019, including the Rolex GMT-Master II "Batman" on Jubilee bracelet, Bulgari's Octo Finissimo chronograph GMT, Omega's moonshine gold Speedmaster, and the surprisingly compelling Cartier Santos-Dumont in quartz. They discuss disappointments like the absence of a Caliber 321 Speedmaster and explore emerging trends including the resurgence of two-tone watches and "Pepsi" blue-and-red color schemes. A spirited debate about "peak new vintage" suggests the industry may be exhausting its nostalgia mining, with the team calling for more forward-looking design innovation. The episode concludes with recommendations of colleague articles and reflections on the Bulgari Octo Finissimo as potentially the most important design direction of the year, representing genuinely modern watchmaking rather than retrospective pastiche.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Unknown | How many um pulling up my calculator? How many uh timex cues do you think you can get for the cost of uh one GMT? You could get many of them. And what's the price of a Pepsi? Ninety-two fifty. Ninety two fifty divided by what? One seventy. Uh one seventy-nine. Oh yeah. This is great. You could buy almost fifty-two. Wow. |
| Unknown | So you can make it rain timex cues. Everyone you know. Everyone gets a cue. You get a cue. You get a cue. Yeah. That joke's not still relevant. That joke's always relevant, baby. Oprah. She was gonna get it. We gotta retire that too. Alright, everybody. By the time you're hearing this, it's July 1st. We're halfway through the year, the first six months are behind us, and in the watch world, that means we have a pretty good lay of the land at this point. We've had Basel World, we've had SIHH, Swatch Group has shown us their new pieces. We know what the major new watches are for 2019. So we thought this would be a good opportunity to get a handful of our editors in a room to sit down and chat and just see what that first six months has told us. What are the best new watches of the year? What were we hoping to see that we didn't get? What were some surprises? What are the trends? That kind of stuff. We're also gonna get some pretty uh some pretty hot takes, some pretty strong opinions from everybody. We've got uh Jack, we've got John, and we've got James in the room. And if you've been paying attention to the watch market, or even if you haven't, you're gonna like this one. This this is gonna give us a pretty good I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinky Radio. Stole stole everything from her watch. |
| Unknown | Set the person down and remove their watch |
| Unknown | . Everyone's off the weekly subway cast uh from Team Hodinky. All right, guys. We're halfway through the year. Or we will be by the time this runs through the magic of radio. We're halfway through this year. We uh the the summer uh summer solstice just passed. Yeah it did. And it's 90 degrees and approximately ninety percent humidity in New York. So welcome to summer baby. So one of the good things at this point is that we can look back on the first six months of the year, and we pretty well know what the watch landscape looks like. We've had Basel World, we've had SIHH, we've had Swatch Groups Time to Move, their their new event. I can't even call it a show, but it's their their new release event. And so we we basically know what the new watches for the year are. And we can get a sense of what the trends are, what the market looks like, kind of the state of the industry. So thought it'd be fun for the four of us to uh sit down. We've got John, we've got Jack, we've got James, and we've got some shmoe named Steven whose name does not start with a J. And we're gonna uh we're gonna go through this year. You guys uh you guys ready for this? L Let'et's dos do it. it.. All right Over overall, let's let's just do a temperature take. How's the watch world this year? Where are we at? I mean, what does one say? It's more |
| Unknown | there's more watches. Okay. Okay. I'll take that. It's been a very strange year. Um uh you know, from where I'm sitting. It it feels like a very uh equivocal sort of wait and see year. Um maybe I'm you know, some of that perception is just kinda how Basel World felt this year, which was uh it was uh it was odd, you know. Um and you the shows are all sort of in flux, so uh you know, after covering this industry for a decade plus, you you know, you you sort of expect things to happen in a kind of, you know, meas |
| Unknown | ure Aaron Powell To me it kind of feels like a lot of a lot of the industry is paying a lot of attention to internal industry news and less to what they're doing in terms of product. Like it just seems like that a lot of it's like we're gonna hold our breath and see how things shake out with the shows, see how things shake out with what people wanna call uh you know, another sort of economic downturn or a dip or something that that might limit some buyers and might slow down some of what's going on in China and or has been going on in China. And it's just a kind of an interesting time where it seems like a lot of watch brands are just really focused on what's happening with their scene and less about moving like less about it being their best product year or or something like that. Ye |
| Unknown | ah and I think that there's um there's there's just a lot of uns I mean I feel like we've been saying this for the last few years straight, but there seems to be a lot of uncertainty and not a whole lot of decisiveness. You know, ev like the brands who went heavy on uh mono brand boutiques, they're not now a hundred percent sure that that's necessarily completely the way to go or that it's gonna work. Um you know, markets are s uh there are no uh catastrophic crashes, but there's some softness in markets that used to be reliably strong. And pretty much the only thing that anyone is sure of is that you cannot get a Rolex stainless steel sports model |
| Unknown | . That's very true.. Mm-hmm I don't I can't actually go back and say like, oh, this is a really strong time for Rolex because I don't know of any really like super weak times for them. But this is in the in the in the span of time that I've been covering watches, uh this is this seems like an era in which Rolex is as strong as they w could possibly want to be because they can do anything they want. Other brands would be terrified if you couldn't walk into the store and buy their watches and they seem quite pleased.. Yeah They're totally fine with it. Or at least complet |
| Unknown | ely noncommittal in terms of making any public statement about it |
| Unknown | . Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, that we don't really know what's going on behind the uh the green green curtain there. I guess I mean quite pleased in that if they wanted to they have the ability to make more watches, they could put more watches in stores. I'm not saying they could necessarily meet all the demand that is there for steel sport watches. Yeah. But they could make more than they do now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean if they wanted to. The |
| Unknown | y probably could m make more in a in a very literal sense. I'm not sure that they could make that many more, especially the high demand stainless steel sports models. I'm not 100% sure they can make uh significantly more in terms of what market demand is. I mean uh Hodinki got a chance to go to the Rolex factories. Were you were you did you were you on that trip? No. Um and you know I mean one of the one of the impressions that I got from reading um Hodinki's coverage is the The um production lines there are really, really highly rationalized. Uh everything from you know when inventory comes in to how it's handled once it's there to how the assembly lines operate. And I don't actually get the impression it's trivially easy for Rolex to say double the number of steel sports watches that they're making |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I mean I I obviously because it's Rolex and so you you don't get any official statements, but you know, kind of rumor and word on the street is that Rolex received a dispensation from the Canton of Geneva to keep the factory open on Saturdays. So from what I have heard, they they're running three shifts a day, six days a week. So like they probably could make more, but to both of your points, like they're not they I don't think could make enough to fully satisfy demand without some pretty major changes. But even if they could, I don't think |
| Unknown | they would want to yet. I don't a long term brand great choice for any brand. Yeah, agreed. Agreed. I mean I'd like I think I think that this is arguably the story of the year. This is what I don't think a day I don't think I spend a day in the Hodenki office and we don't have a discussion about the steel Rolex scenario. And I always like trying to think of like and maybe you guys have a have an idea for this, is like what what b other brand would you parallel with Rolex |
| Unknown | . I mean there is the situation with uh for example Patek Philippe getting a getting a Nautilus is uh sure is another steel sports watch it's very difficult to get it's in some wa |
| Unknown | ys a similar situation but I mean they're different not even just Nautiluses. You can't like I was just having this discussion yesterday, we have we were in we had a fifty one sixty four A, the the travel time aqua not, my absolute dream watch. Uh they had in for some photographs and you cannot get one. No. Yeah. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. I think it's it's interesting. You know, with Paddock, we have on the record, like we know the rationale. The rationale is that Terry Stern says he's only making a certain percentage of steel watches total, not just Nautilus, but all steel watches. He's only making a certain percentage of Nautilus. And the goal is he wants to protect the brand equity long-term. He doesn't want to become the Nautilus company. He wants to be protect Philippe. And I think Rolex in in a similar way doesn't want to flood the market with Samariners and Daytonas and make them sort of like boring commodity watches that you can get anywhere and that you see everywhere. Because you know, 20, 30 years from now, when tastes change, which they inevitably will, uh, they don't want to be the like that company that made that chronograph that everybody had. They want to be the company that's making the relevant thing that everybody still wants. And it's, you know, especially for Rolex and I would say to a slightly lesser degree, but also for Patek, like they're some of the only brands that can afford to |
| Unknown | play that game. Well the and that's and that's I guess what my question was is like can you think of other of brands not in the watch space? Oh because the only one I've been successfully come up with that I think there's a a l a through line is Patagonia. Okay. Patagonia is an interesting comparison because I think it's America's Rolex. Interesting. From a brand. This is a brand that's uh highly obsessed with doing things exclusively the way they want, making very few excuses for it. Okay. Um I'm not saying they operate like Rolex, but I think they have the same sort of like I mean they've openly said, uh you've Chunard and and the current CEO has said that they operate on a hundred-year basis. So if they make a decision today, do they have high faith that in a hundred years they would make the same decision. And what that does is totally blows away the idea of worrying about costs that you could recoup in a decade or 30 years. And you gotta think that somebody at Rolex is thinking way down the road when they make decisions to actively dismiss sales to ent to customers that would be entry level um that's not the Conquest customers, their first Rolex. Yeah. Right? Because if you can't walk in and buy an explore or uh a steel date just or whatever it is that someone w probably saved up for and would be their first one, and then maybe ten years down the road or twenty or thirty years down the road you buy your first solid gold Daytona or uh |
| Unknown | do you think that maybe like a like two door Porsches are kind of a similar kind of thing? But uh there's n |
| Unknown | there's absolutely no shortage of nine elevens. Yeah. Like definitely definitely I think that you could make the case for uh GT cars, uh like like uh G GTT2s,3s, where you typically have to have a relationship with a brand. Maybe you have bought other Porsches to get an allotment. But I don't actually know what it would require. You'd have to have a relationship with a dealer, a good dealer to get a role actually have to be in |
| Unknown | line. The difference there, right, is it we're talking about in that case it's it's products that are difficult to get, whereas you're talking about the whole way that a brand sort of like conceives of itself. I mean, Jack, can you think of any any parallels either from like maybe the tech world or the fashion world. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Yeah. I think yeah, I think that Rolex certainly in the watch world is in uh you know kind of a unique position in terms of uh how high demand is and how low supply is. And I don't honestly, you know, this is the $65,000 question, right? And uh because there's no actual data in terms of information from Rolex, um, a lot of retailers not really want I was talking to Joe Thompson about this the other day, and he said, because there's no information, everybody's an expert, and everybody is absolutely convinced that whatever their pet theory is is 100 percent correct. But the r the the the reality is we don't know. You know, this is a fairly recent phenomenon. Um it seems to be riding on the back of uh the huge, huge, huge demand for steel Rolex models in the collector world. Um and there are an awful lot of people who are upset that they can't get steel Rolexes, who wanted them very badly. You know, that we know. But is this Rolex being strategic? Is this Rolex finding themselves in a situation where they have decided to just keep doing what they do and let the market kind of sort itself out. Um nobody I mean nobody knows. Nobody knows. I mean my personal sense is that this didn't really come up come about as a result of Rolex saying to them saying to themselves five years ago, let's choke the market for stainless steel sports watches. Um it just doesn't make any sense. Um, because potentially it creates more problems for them than it solves. Uh and it certainly doesn't seem like it's a strategic way of protecting brand equity long term. So I think that they are as almost as surprised as everybody else, but but I don't |
| Unknown | know. Yeah. I definitely know I don't know. I I I guess with the the parallel to another brand or another product or another concept for me is just uh to try and wrap my head around it from like a uh like a market exercise. Like just just try and understand it. Like they're not worried about like Rolex isn't worried about being around in another hundred years. I'm sure they have strong faith that they can keep the ship afloat. So maybe it just doesn't matter. They make a certain number of watches and if demand's really high now, that kinda helps them. And eventually when that moves or or the the you know, the the boats level off in a different way, then they go back to having them in the store. I don't know. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. Is is there not a danger that you might um if if people cannot get the most desirable products and if that goes on for long enough that eventually they they they go to your competitors. Yeah, they go to your own aspirational compet |
| Unknown | itor tutor. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I I think, you know, for me the the sentiment I've heard because as as James said, like this this is something everybody is talking about constantly all the time, uh, and not just on the forums and in the comments section on Hodinky. This is like a conversation that anybody related to this industry is having all the time. You know, one of the the fears is that the competitors aren't omega or Tudor, but that the competitors are Porsche or a Taylor or Travel or whatever. And that essentially what you're doing is you're taking a whole group of potential new watch buyers for whom Rolex is the access point to all of watches. And you're telling them when they're in their 20s or 30s that maybe they should spend their money on other things and then they never become watch buyers. And so you have to then in 20 years work much harder to convince them to spend their money on other things. And obviously it's all it's all conjecture at this point. So we can't really |
| Unknown | know. I think that's an interesting idea. I think what we're probably not going to see is five years from now stores full of stainless steel sports models that Rolex can't sell because they alienated a generation of watch buyers. I think that's en |
| Unknown | tirely correct. Yeah. I think it's less of a problem for Rolex and maybe more of a problem for what effect Rolex has on other brands long term, but I agree with you. Um all right. We could we could do a whole show on this, and maybe at some point we do. But uh for now I've got a couple questions. Uh just so the audience knows, I did send these to uh to the team ahead of time. So people have had a little bit of time to to think and to prep, but uh let's just get into it. Let's let's dissect what this year in watches looks like. So the first thing I want to know is what is each of your favorite watch to come out in 2019? I'll let you I'll I'll let you prevaricate a little bit. You can give me like two or three tops. But I want to know like if you had to go out and spend your money right now on a watch that came out since January first, what are you buying? John, you go first |
| Unknown | . Uh okay, my first would be you know Batman GMT on a Jubilee. Yeah, Batman GMT on a Jubilee. That would be my number one. I really loved Bulgari's Octofinissimo chronograph GMT automatic. Yeah. Killer. And then a bit of a stretch for me just in terms of of the price would be uh that white gold AP uh jumbo with the salmon dial from SIH. Yeah fifteen two oh two yeah yeah the BC. Th |
| Unknown | ose are all those are all pretty hot watches, I gotta admit. Uh you know thinking about the collection right there. Thinking about them, the things that make them all the same is they're all, in theory, sport watches on bracelets. That's right. Is that your move this year |
| Unknown | ? Uh I hadn't even thought about that. You're usually a strap a strap guy. Totally usually a strap guy. But I think you know it certainly in the summertime uh I will don a watch with a bracelet. It's uh it just makes more sense. Uh actually that' |
| Unknown | s true. I don't think I've seen you wear a watch with a bracelet on it except for review I I can't remember Or the watch you're wearing right now. Exactly, yeah. Yeah |
| Unknown | . Which is no mega speedmaster. That's true, yes |
| Unknown | . What are you buying? I loved the Willard reissue from Seiko, the sixty one oh five reissue, and uh unfortunately they seem to all uh be spoken for, so I guess I'm not buying that one. There's no uh special one of one Jack Forrester tucked away somewhere. I mean, no. The other watch that I was really impressed by this year was I mean there were there was there were some interesting things from a lot of different companies. Um I really, really loved the uh white gold citizen caliber 0100, which is a sixteen thousand eight hundred dollar. Which you just reviewed. Which I just reviewed. And John reviewed the Bulgari. I did. Interesting. Yeah, great reviews. We'll link uh both those up. Yeah, I thought there was something about it. Uh you know, I I if somebody had told me ten years ago you are going to fall absolutely in love with the sixteen thousand dollar white gold quartz time only wristwatch, I would have told them to go soak their head. But uh Take a long walk up or short piece. How many nineteen fifty results can we come up with? More than one apparently we can do this all day. Uh but it happened, yeah |
| Unknown | . It's uh I I just thought it was such a cool watch. That's awesome. James, what are you uh what are you eyeing? Uh yeah, I mean that my the my favorite thing that I put on wrist isn't very much not me. It's that uh moonshine solid gold speedmaster. What are you talking about? That's so good. I don't like speedmasters that, much. I'm not a chronograph guy. I love a solid gold watch, of course. And this one uh it glows in a way that's different than other gold. It's fun, it's kind of subtle. It's a little bit uh weird to photograph. Uh I think it's gorgeous. I mean, I I remember specifically seeing uh Robert's original one uh with the maroon bezel at an omega event a few years ago and just being blown away by the difference. A speedmaster is a speed master, but you change the metal, it's a whole different thing. And I I thought that was really, really rad. And then uh the the other one, I mean, if we're really talking about just watches that we really love, that uh Vasharon Constantin prototype I got to see last week, the one of one titanium travel time. That's a good looking watch. It's gorgeous. That is a good one. I really hope they put that into Vashron if you're listening, please make that watch. I think it's a little bit of a troll them saying that they're not gonna make it. We can look back on this recording or or others um but I think they're definitely gonna make it I think it's question you know I spoke to them and they they said it's a it's literally a question of how many overseas they can produce and then you kind of have to change the tooling to of course deal with the titanium. They showed it uh I went to um like a dinner drinks thing the night before with Corey Richards, uh, who's their ambassador and an amazing nat nat geophotographer and climber alpinist and, he um he had it on a matching overseas bracelet in full titanium, which they don't show in the press materials, and they they didn't have you know the next day they had it on this ventile cotton uh strap and uh on the bracelet it's pure pure awesome and and and to see uh the like to have that vasher on and then to have it pushed so hard towards sporty is uh is really really cool. I like that watch to begin with. Yeah. Let's think about uh let's let's think |
| Unknown | about this for a second, folks. James Stacy endorsing a gold speed master and a titanium Vash Run overseas. Let's do it. What has the world come to? Things are getting weird up in here, Matt. Definitely weird |
| Unknown | . We're not even drinking. We're recording this in the morning. Speak for yourself. I'm going to second you, James, on the gold speedy. That was a real standout for me. Yeah. And again, I'm generally, despite my obsession with all things space related, I'm not a speed master guy. |
| Unknown | You're not a speedmaster guy either. That's it. That's why it's the gold |
| Unknown | tiles. Something else. It's the whole thing, just top to bottom. That watch is so, so good. Imagine on a NATO. I can't I can't even talk about that right now. Um get out of town. Damn. Um Steven, what else was what was uh what was hot for you? Uh you know, my other two selections are one is actually a watch jack that you are wearing right now, which is the Cartier Santos Dumont. Which again, if you had told me heading into this year that one of my highlights would be a slim steel quartz two hander, uh I probably would have laughed at you. But you know, Cartier did what Cartier does best, which is do something understated, uh with no sense of kind of like having to appease anybody else's expectations. They just like they did them, they designed a beautiful product that's enjoyable to wear and it's it's great. And like would I prefer it with a handwap movement in it? Like sure in a vacuum I would, but like the price on this is so good. It's under $4,000 in either size. Yeah. It comes in two sizes, a smaller and a and a medium, I think they call it. Um sure, but it's under four thousand dollars in quartz in steel. If they put a handwell movement in it, the movement they'd put in it would have to be very expensive because of the dimensions of the watch. And this all of a sudden becomes a $15,000 watch, which I think, you know, all things considered, uh, this watch in steel at $3,800 or whatever it is, to me is actually more compelling than this watch with a ham wow movement at twelve thousand doll |
| Unknown | ars. It's just it's uh so comfortable. It's such a beautiful design object. And you know, it just feels so Cartier. I mean it it's just a great, great watch to wear. I totally agree with you |
| Unknown | . Definitely gonna bring new people to that brand. Oh for sure. And that too. Yeah. Right? Like that's gotta be the the purpose for offering like you can't buy an icon other icons for four grand. No, no. You just you kinda can't. Like Yeah. And that's one of the cool things I've I mean some Seiko' |
| Unknown | s maybe, but it's different kind of iconics. That's one of the things I think that's a different kind of iconic that makes Cartier so great is you know having having been fortunate enough to purchase a handful of small things from Cartier is their retail experience and the way that the whole brand is shaped is like when you go into that store, you know, you're you're walking by diamond necklaces that are millions of literally millions of dollars like right by the front door. But when you walk into the store and you go buy a pair of cufflinks or you go buy a necklace or you go buy a watch and it's something under $2,000, under $3,000, under $5,000, you still leave feeling like a king and like you've sort of they they really make you feel a part of that brand and all of the products themselves feel so a part of that brand that at every price point you don't feel like you're making any compromises. And you know, going back to our earlier conversation about, you know, Rolex and Patek, like Cartier's control of their brand equity is so strong. And to me, products like this are confident statements. Like, not many brands could drop a product like this as a flagship level product and and do it kind of with a straight face and standing tall and with the confidence that it's it's gonna be a success. And Cartier does, and it shows, you know, no no no guts, no glory, right |
| Unknown | ? Yeah, you know the it's it's uh it's really weird. I'm well and maybe it it's absolutely not weird actually because this is a Cartier product and you know we know uh how careful they are about design on sort of every level. But you know, like I I look at this thing on my wrist and I feel so chic. I know. I know I that's |
| Unknown | a pretty great that's almost like a perfect term for the way that that their watches like the the appeal that they offer. Right. I also think that I've been trying to think of brands lately that that feel like they're on the come up by chance. Not because their product is better than it was two years ago or five years ago or ten years ago, but simply because you know the the industry tastes kinda change. Yeah. And like if there's gonna be a swing away from steel sport watches, Cardi is gonna be have a hell of a decade ahead of them. Uh yeah, I would agree. Uh they could be really well positioned. There's there's definitely ten other brands you could think of that could be that that the same could be said. But if you're if you can get a watch that's sweet for four for four grand. Yeah. I mean I agree. There's a lot there. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. My my other highlight that I I don't want to let go uh I guess ignored, uh and it's not a single watch, it's it's a collection, but it's the new Spitfires from IWC. Yeah. Yeah, those were very good. Those were nice, yeah. To me, like those while I've been a long, long time fan of of IWC and IWC's pilot watches specifically. And like these Spitfire watches feel to me like what the pilot collection should be all along. Like they're matte, they're understated, they come with a couple of different colors and variations, but they're all, you know, kind of under the radar.. Yeah Uh they're priced really well. They have great movements inside. Like and and again, I I just think about what a consumer gets walking into an IWC boutique or a retailer and buying one of those watches. And you get an incredible watch that you can wear literally for the rest of your life. It will last the rest of your life. It's gonna look good the rest of your life. And at every stage, you're gonna be able to look down at your wrist and feel proud and excited that you own that product. Uh and I think to me, like that's that's the name of the game. Uh and I think these new these new Spitfires really na |
| Unknown | il it. My my only critique of those watches watches would be uh that they're still a little bit big, the chronographs in particular. Um the new spiffires? They're uh forty-one. They're forty one, yeah. |
| Unknown | Maybe they were a little bit different. Time and date are 39. Time and date is good at 39, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I hadn't thought maybe I'll have to go try one on again. I haven't tried the chronographs on since I guess Watches and Wonders. Oh yeah. |
| Unknown | Yeah. But that's another that's another brand that I I would say like unlike Cartier, where maybe Cartier might be positioned to be at the sweet spot in in a changing tide of taste. IWC, I think, like had such a sweet time in 2000 to 2007. Yeah. And then they went hard on in-house and they they really put all their chips on really big movements for big watches. For a long time there. And now we're getting five digit movements. And you know, in in this 41mm cornograph, it's an 89 XXX movement, I think. And but now it's at 41 millimeters. And if they if they really start to not not delete all the stuff that's 44 and 46, like people still love a big pilot, big, but if they take all of that skill and start packaging and stuff as as strong as the 18 and the newspaper uh the uh the titanium stuff from the the kind of second wave of the gs t line. Oh like you know like the the the Cousodiver limited edition, the blue orange one. And the the what is it, 3586 diver? That was a little on the bigger. That's when they started to push towards like 43 millimeters. Yeah. But it had that like as uh the sapphire bezel and and and then the I don't remember the reference, but the one before that that had the captive bezel you had to push down on. Mm-hmm. But it had the really gorgeous, like minimal sort of dial. Yep. Those were some sweet designs. I mean, and they all of those could just come back. |
| Unknown | So now that we're getting into speculation, I want I want to move to our next question, which is what was the watch you were hoping to see this year that you didn't get? Whether it was something that was rumored or something you just wanted? I mean, maybe maybe we'll start with Jack on this one. What what were you hoping to see that never never materi |
| Unknown | alized? Uh it hasn't materialized yet, I expect it to uh but it hasn't, so I feel uh okay about saying this. Uh Caliber three twenty one speedmaster. Yeah. Oh yeah. I think that's a safe bet. |
| Unknown | James, where are you what are you what are you listening after? Um so they they still could do it. I just don't think they will, so I'm gonna say it's it's a missed opportunity, but I would have liked to have seen a proper reissue of the sub two hundred chronograph. So we saw that hilarious uh solid gold one. This is the dock so you're talking about, yeah, yeah. So it's fifty years. you I'fre gonna hit an anniversary with docs, you might as well hit fifty. I'm a very proud owner of the three hander, the sub three hundred uh L E, which is like essentially a laser copy of the one they made originally, a thin case and all that. And I think that they had a really solid opportunity. Maybe it's very difficult to get those movements. I'm not sure the but I'm sure they could have figured uh something out and and uh to not you know to only make those the chrono in that tiny reissue and at $70,000 in solid gold is a is a weird move when it was kind of a head scratcher, yeah. Right. And when you look back, and Heaton has written some fantastic pieces on the originals, he is of which he has two, um they I think they could have made another hundred or two hundred of each of the dial versions and they would have been super fun. I mean there's no they have such a distinct charm. Yeah. And then the uh the other one is uh you know, I would I would very very, much like to see um and haven't seen yet, uh you know, as as Omega continues to operate at with the forty one millimeter uh sub three hundred uh the uh C Master three hundreds? Yep. I would love to see them bring back uh a sword hand wave dial, like a 225450 reissue. I adore that watch I I've owned uh owned in the past, and you know, it was this great thin dive watch that had kind of an MOD feel with the sword hands. And people don't genuinely love the skeleton bond style dials. And I think they've done a great job updating those with all their current tech and materials, but it would be really fun. Just just slide w slide one in way on the on the left there with sword hands and a black dial. The Stacy special? I |
| Unknown | I would be interested for sure. Yeah? All right. You heard it here first. Uh yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Jack about the caliber 321. Uh I think it was uh in my in my you know very humble opinion, I think it was a little bit of a miss not to include it in either of the limited editions that we've seen already. Yeah. But you never know what the future may hold uh even within this year. So |
| Unknown | we'll see. Yeah. And I mean we're recording this again in in late June, but we've got the actual anniversary of the moon landing coming up in in less than a month. So who knows what we'll see uh around that. Uh yeah, mine uh has to do just with you know the rumors that circulate kind of in the in the Rolex uh internet ether, I guess. Um I really wanted to see a new millgas this year. There were lots of rumors that the mill goes hadn't been updated in too long and what and that you know it wasn't an anniversary year, but fine. Um I love the mill gals. I I love the period in Rolex's history in kind of the late late fifties and into the early sixties where it was weird. Like they were doing weird stuff that today a giant conglomerate and or like giant luxury company could not do. Everything gets kind of you know voted on by boards and decided due to market research and whatever. This was they were like, hey, let's make a weird, very specific tool watch, uh, you know, give it a lightning bolt hand and a weird six-degree bezel that doesn't make any sense. Like it's a watch you that would never exist today, and I love it for that reason. Um the 1019 is an incredibly beautiful, I think maybe the most underrated design in in Rolex's archive. Um and the new Milgauss has just felt kind of I think it's starting to feel a little old, a little long in the tooth. It was for a long time, like the hot watch, like the black dial milgass with the green crystal for a long time was the steel Rolex you couldn't get. It was that and the, you know, all steel steel bracelet Daytona back when it was a steel bezel. But but uh uh, you know, still dig that watch. I do too. But yeah. Yeah, for for a while, like it was it was the hot model and they've you know done some new dial colors, whatever, but it really hasn't changed substantively in a long time. So I was kind of hoping that we'd see maybe a, you know, whether it's a mil gas with a rotating bezel or a mill gas with a new dial layout or just something. Just something to kind of shake things up. Solid gold mill gas, maybe. But uh you know. I just want something new that says milgows on the big amagnetic. |
| Unknown | Aaron Powell Yeah, that's true actually. We didn |
| Unknown | 't really get any fuss about that. Yeah, we didn't really get any new standard black bay It's kind of like a John Player special, like a vintage Daytona. It's uh it's cool. V seventies. Yeah, very seventies. Sure. Throw that thing on a bunch |
| Unknown | strap and uh go to town. I also really liked that prototype that so many you know, that that's uh um what was it, the p P01? Uh which was an awfully polarizing watch, I know uh for a lot of people. Maybe this is something that happens to you when you're like around any one thing for too long. Like you you you s it it becomes impossible for you to be uh you know entertained or engaged by something quote unquote normal and it takes it takes something that's a little you know off the beaten track to you know to get your attention. But I thought it was a cool looking watch. |
| Unknown | I agree. And Cole wrote a great piece on it that we'll we'll link up kind of explaining the history of it and why it existed because I think when it came out a lot of people are like whoa is somebody at Tudor losing their mind? Has somebody just absolutely lost it? And it turns out no that's it turns out no. It turns out the answer is there's there's an extremely interesting little uh kind of like blip in Tudor's history of designing military watches and they designed this thing, it never ended up getting made and so they're they're now making it. Well |
| Unknown | to your point earlier, Stephen, you know this came from a period when you know a lot of uh brands just in terms of in terms of what they were trying to do practically with watches it was a little bit more jazzing around uh in those days than there were than there |
| Unknown | than there currently is. Yeah. And and I think the you know some some of the heat that Tudor got for the PO one is because they they teased what appeared to be a reference to a watch that people would very much like them to make again. Right. And uh and when it came out as being something not adjacent to the old design, but left field, not a core product, not not something that's gonna be a watch you see on the street or or even even a w most watch meetups, I I think that people were kinda |
| Unknown | like Even here in the high remote towers of Hodinki we could hear faintly the howls of outrage. Perhaps less fa |
| Unknown | intly at times. But yeah that's actually they weren't they were they were the opposite of faint.. Ye Yeahah. And uh I I think it's a cool watch, certainly. Um and and I think that there's obviously they they it doesn't mean that they can't make whatever it is that people really want as far as a reissue of something else. I think that uh maybe it's just that they have a lot of faith in the current black uh black bay lineup as a whole, being a fairly well rounded. I mean it's not there's not really anything missing. The previous materials were fantastic too with the 450 getting into the BBGMT. And I want that BBGMT needs it that movement needs to be in a pelagos. |
| Unknown | Yeah, and like everywhere. So along along those lines, uh you know, there are things we love, things we were hoping to see that we didn't see, but then there's stuff that kinda catches us off guard. I feel like we're all pretty well prepared for these shows and by the time Basel World rolls around or SIHH rolls around, we have a pretty vague sense of of like what's happening, you know, and even just the trends, like you kind of know what directions brands are moving in. Um, but you still see watches that kind of catch you off guard and and stick with you. And for me, a watch that that really did that was the Bulgari Octofenissimo GMT Chrono Automatic. with that with that platform. And it's a watch that again, it's like it's kind of big. I mean it's super thin, but it's kind of big. It's a little aggressive looking. It's chronograph and a GMT. It's lots of complications. It's very much outside my usual wheelhouse, I say, wearing an old three-hand explorer. Um but I love it. And I I just like it totally caught me off guard and you know it's definitely contender for my my favorite watch from Basel World and and one of my favorite watches of the year for sure. |
| Unknown | Yeah, I mean I think with y with the exception of the the automatic in that range, this is really the the only really solid commercial product that like, you know, many people can afford. You have obviously the minute repeater and a couple couple of different executions, one of w one of which uh Jack did a weak on the wrist with. You have the Torbion. Uh but this is, you know, a complicated watch with two complications. It's super thin, like I wore it, it's super wearable and um the price isn't that crazy |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I mean James, did you see anything that that really kind of held held that spot for you? Like as far as this thing that surprised me? Yeah, something that kinda caught you off guard or that |
| Unknown | you didn't expect to like that you you did. Yeah, I mean like I would not have predicted at any point that I would see a timex that I would be like, I should buy that. How much could it be? And that timex cue I like quite a bit.. Oh yeah TimexQ is great. We just have a round of applause for the Timex Q. Like I I think I think that um uh someone will have to remind me this is tells you exactly how interested in Timex I generally am, but like the um the uh the dress watch that they've made for the last couple years that's kind of sharp. The uh Marlin. Thank you, the Marlin. And I I would lean towards a Hamilton Intramatic if I wanted a small, simple dress watch. I I I really think that's been a successful thing for a couple years. Um but that Q, I mean, it disappeared. They sold they sold them out. And it's it's kind of a cool thing. You know, it leans on the the Pepsi, you get a 12 hour bezel, which I love. It's the right size. It's got a one of those like a thin style bracelet. Kind of reminds me of the Bright Link stuff from |
| Unknown | . You can open it with a nickel. There's back, a la old Accutron two fourteen. Oh right. Okay. Oh, nice, cool. This is why we keep Jack around. Yeah, because I notice things like battery hatches. Yeah, I love it. I mean I'm not like quartz quartz is okay. Quartz is |
| Unknown | fine. Yeah, weirdly, maybe is this is this the year quartz comes back? Quartz comeback. Just give me more quartz watches with no seconds hand. Honestly, it's the 50th anniversary. It is. It is. It's the 50th anniversary. Maybe maybe this is Quartz Quartz's uh revival. Quartz week? Should we do it again? We're doing I'm I'm committing now, Jack. I'm committing you to this. We're doing Quartz Week round two. That's fine with me. It's the fiftieth anniversary. We're gonna find a handful of really cool stories we can tell about quartz watches coming this fall on Hodinky.com. Quartzweek round two. All right, there it is. The dark crystal. |
| Unknown | Brought to you by the Time XQ unofficially. Non-spons track. Super unofficial. |
| Unknown | John, did you have anything that kind of surprised you? What was that that seventy thousand dollar solid gold Doxa? Yeah for that was uh that I did definitely definitely did not see coming. I don't think anybody I don't think anybody saw coming. That wasn't so much a surprise as a WTF. Yeah. Pretty much. Uh yeah. I d I had didn't know I mean I thought it was kind of a cool looking watch. It was undoubtedly definitely cool. Super cool looking thing. Um but you know, I d I didn't know that twenty nineteen would be the year that people were ready for a seventy thousand dollar uh solid gold doxa. Yeah. It almost sounds like a Monty Python routine. |
| Unknown | Nobody expects the $70,000 gold Doxa. We'll link that up too. For anyone who doesn't get that reference, check the show notes. I'll send it to you, Greg. Gray's making faces at me right now that's like I have no idea what Jack's talking about. Yeah. Um Jack, I'm sorry. What were what were your surprises? Uh I mean uh |
| Unknown | actually it was the um it was the bul also the bulgeri. Uh so I second that emotion. Okay. Um uh it's not a surprise really to see uh a new ultra-thin record being broken by Bulgary. Um it was sort of a surprise for me to see that particular watch this year, and partly because, you know, John did a fantastic uh week on the wrist with that watch in which he pointed out that it broke a record which uh for uh ultra thin self winding and ultra thin chronographs both, which had stood since what, eighty five, something like that? I think it was like eighty. Yeah, mid-eighties. And with the um uh FPGA eleven eighty, eleven eighty five. We have to say manufactured blanc pan now. We can't say we can't say FPGA. Um but you know I mean that's an another yet another record of Swallow and that stood for decades. Uh I mean in a record that had stood for thirty something years. It's uh and |
| Unknown | and uh in a watch that uh you found very enjoyable to wear. Yeah, it was really, really nice to wear. And I think it's you know, it's interesting that uh there was a time when I think people would have been very surprised that Bulgarie had had uh broken that record, but now it's something that I think is just like there's a momentary surprise, but it's like, yeah, they're Bulgary, they are experts in making all manner of ultra-thin, complicated watches. Yeah, it's tru |
| Unknown | e. So I I want to go from the the micro to the macro, right? We've talked about specific products, but but let's look at at the trends. Like we've talked, okay, the big story of the year, stainless steel sports watches specifically from Rolex and Paddock, also a little bit from AP, are tough to get. We know that, that's been happening for a while. Great. That that I think we can all agree is is continuing. Any anyone disagree there before we we put the uh we close on that? No All right, cool. So that's that's trend one. We know about that. But what are the other trends? What's what's happening? What are you seeing a lot of, whether it's style colors, whether it's styles, whether it's price points, complications. Uh what what's kinda hot in the watch world if you walk into a multi-brand boutique, what's what's a salesman gonna tell you is like cool right now? Assuming they know what they're talking about |
| Unknown | . I don't know. I mean there have been years, you know, when I've been when I've sort of said to myself, okay, you know, uh just to be trivial about it, okay, green dials are hot this year. Um but it doesn't feel like a very trendish year to me. I feel like there's there's are there are a lot of uh a lot of the brands are sort of tentatively checking in on different ideas uh, you know, to see what what they feel like works and what and you know and what doesn't. But it I trends per se, I don't know. |
| Unknown | You know? Aaron Powell I think we're seeing the first sort of um cracks in the dam uh pushing that are gonna I think maybe as a response to the whole Rolex thing in steel. Uh you know, we're seeing two tone. I think we're seeing uh brands look more into I mean, we've seen the gold trend happening for a while with brands making their own alloys, and I think that will continue in some metric. Yep. Um but yeah, I think like two tone seems to be a thing that that stylish brands are look looking back towards. Um and and I think that's a that's a change. That's a change in the span of time that I've been going to Basel and and SHH and such is that that's always kind of been around. But you're getting more Roll of Sorry, you're getting the Tudor Black Bay, uh Chrono Steel and Gold, you're getting uh more, and then they made a bunch of the um what's the the tutor's like elegant dress watch or the um They're sort of date just uh now in steel and gold and and and that sort of thing. So I I think that we'll probably see more and more of that |
| Unknown | . You know, the seven years seven. I had two tone written down too. Two tone really. And even brands like Oris are doing it with bronze, like I think there's just an appetite out there for watches that are not |
| Unknown | like. I'd like to see one of those after about a year on someone's wrist. The steel bronze I think could look really cool once that's colored out based on where they |
| Unknown | live. Um the Timex that we were just talking about and then then your comments about two tone. I mean the seventy that that the Timex felt like a very seventies watch to me in a good way. Um and it's it's hard to say seventies in a good way about design in general. But but you know like it it's it's a decade that has not been |
| Unknown | Yeah. You got the Q, you've got the whole new Pan Am stuff from Brightling is is obviously heavily invested in blue red. I mean that's a reference based on a reference based on a reference to Pan Am. Uh so maybe maybe it's not so much a trend as much as Pan Am watches are red and blue and all as are all the wat |
| Unknown | ches that suggest them, but Yeah, I think maybe there's there's a certain element of that. I think it's also just like on a very basic level, it's the the Pepsi effect, right? Like I I have heard from multiple sources that if if you're a multi-brand retailer, any product you can get in blue and red is great because customers come in, they want the Pepsi GMT, they can't get it. They ask if there's a tutor blackbay GMT in stock. If there's not, they want something else that's red and blue. And like sales of red and blue watches from all manner of other brands uh have actually done really well in the wake of uh in the wake of the Pepsi |
| Unknown | . How many um pulling up my calculator, how many uh timex cues do you think you can get for the cost of uh one GMT. You can get many of them. And what's the price of a Pepsi? 9250. 9250 divided by what? 170. Oh yeah. You could buy almost almost fifty two of them. You could buy almost fifty two. Wow. Al |
| Unknown | right. So you can make it rain time's cues. Everyone you know. Everyone gets a cue.. You You get get a a r cue.ate Yeah. Any other still relevant? Huh? That joke's not still relevant. That joke's always relevant, baby. Oprah? She was gonna see what Pon |
| Unknown | tiac G6 is. Shout out to Shout out to Oprah. |
| Unknown | Pontiac doesn't exist anymore. I think that we gotta retire that joke. Alright, fine. You heard it here first. Oprah's out. Oh man. Oof. We're gonna get canceled after that. Um please don't, please don't at any of us for James canceling Oprah. Alright, I want to know I want to know what your hottest take of the year is. This is this is where I want to know what's the thing you've been dying to say about where the watch world's at this year. Come in hot. We'll go with James's usual uh which I love, which is strong opinions loosely held. Come in with a strong opinion. Who's coming in? Okay. All right. I think uh that was not coming in strong. You gotta come in strong here, man. I need you to come in hot. I'm not sure. Come in real hot |
| Unknown | . Boom. What do we think? Agree? Disagree? |
| Unknown | Uh oh. I agree. I think. Yeah. Yeah? Why? It's an assault on the new vintage, the endless like play toward |
| Unknown | s watches that were made in the 60.s Yeah, I mean it it does kind of nod toward a design language that comes to us from the seventies, but it does it in a totally original way. Yeah, it's so modern. And it really does there's nothing that looks quite like it out there. There is an Octorange of course from Bulgary, but the Octofinissimo is very much its own thing and uh yeah, the watches are really cool looking and um they're like breaking records left and right. So yeah, I think it's |
| Unknown | definitely one I would say like people should go to a store try one to see if you can put one on your wrist because it feels like |
| Unknown | a different thing. If they feel amazing. I will 100% second that. If you have not tried one of those watches on, go put one on your wrist. Just find a place to do it. I'm sure you can go to Bulgari.com. We'll even like, I'll look and see if there's a retailer finder. And if there is, we'll link that up in the notes so that you can go find one and try it out. With the bracelet. They're super cool. 100%. All right, Jack. I don't know if this is a hot tak |
| Unknown | e uh necessarily. Let's put it out there and take its temperature. I thought that code 1159 was uh on every level the most by far the most fascinating launch of the year, uh, because it said so much about so many things, uh, including uh people's perception of the watch press, people's perceptions of Odmar Piget, people's perceptions of uh the design itself, um, people's ability or inability to see the to see the design in context and out of context. Um I I mean there's so many possible conclusions that can be drawn and ideas that can arise from uh you know looking at how that product went out into the world and how it was received. Um and I'm gonna I think I'm gonna be thinking about it for years |
| Unknown | . I got thoughts here, but I want to hear what you guys think. I I don't think I've thought about that watch since I saw it. Interesting. I don't think there's anything wrong with the watch. I don't think it deserved the hate it got. I th I I applaud them. I applaud AP for trying something new because that's not easy. Um I still stick by the fact that what we're seeing is when Portia made the cayenne, uh and it's a different buyer, it's it's not the same person, and I think that you give it a few years and it'll feel n like a natural part of AP's existence. Um but I I don't it's definitely not something that uh changed the temperature of my existence in any way at all. Right |
| Unknown | . Yeah, I think it's it's easy to forget because of sort of how the marketing and PR was handled around this, but like just a very, very small part of AP's overall production for now. And like it's not actually affecting the number of royal oaks that are being made. It's like a totally additive thing. There's some new movements which we're already seeing in other watches, you know. You know, don't forget the three-hand date that was designed for code 1159 is already in the new base Royal Oak. Like there will be knock-on effects that affect customers who are not interested in code, but who are interested in in Royal Oak. But I would agree with James. I think like it's not a watch I've thought about particularly much, but I do think like at this point, like it's part of the collection. It's fine. Like I I don't think about it.. It's there It is what it is. You know, I I do know that for the most part they're sold out, you know, the first run. And like good for AP. Like if A if this helps AP stay afloat and this helps AP, you know, make more cool complications and things like the RD two and the supersonary and whatever, like fine. So be it. |
| Unknown | Yeah, I mean one of the interesting to James's um uh point um there was so much noise around this launch when it happened and uh you know I wouldn't say the silence is deafening since, but there's been y I mean relative to the amount of to the splash that made it launch, there's been surprisingly little. The sound and the f |
| Unknown | ury died down quite quickly. Very quickly. Very quickly. Which as you said might actually say more than than anything else. Yeah. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. We're talking about it again six months later. That's true. That's true. That's very fair. And it gave a lot of commenters a chance to feel like they knew more than every other commenter. Yeah. I mean I'm it's good. It's worth something to someone. That's very true. Alright, what's your uh what's your take? I'm not sure I've got a take. I I I think think that we might be I think that mine's m maybe more of a prediction than a take. I think we might be at peak new vintage. I think that like like it's about to come down? Like we're uh jumping the shark. Like there's we're we're we're leaning pretty hard as an industry on and and uh look I I own a bunch of these watches, I like it, but I also think that to John's point with the Bulgari, there is a world that doesn't look like Dive Watch from the 60s. Yeah. Just doesn't. And uh and I think that I'm really excited for that world. Uh to write about something new, to stop talking about faux age loom or uh or c cases that were scanned so that they're exactly the same. So they're exactly the same. Yeah. I mean like I I think that at a certain point the strength of the industry needs to move on. Um or the the the best minds in the industry need to move on from anniversaries and reissues and uh and and the past the the sweet past uh and look at look at look at what's in the future and, I think that there's brands showing that that future can be exciting and wearable and really interesting from a product standpoint. And I think that there's certain brands that get it, like Omega seems to do both really well, looking at their past and incorporating high tech, uh special uh materials. They've been doing this for years. And and I think that it it'll be really interesting just to see um or th or that I'm excited to see where where we get in the next 10 years Yeah, we don't know. So let me |
| Unknown | let me rephrase that, James, uh uh a little bit because um you know I had an interesting conversation with Marie Lorceret, who's the head of design for Cartier at SIHH, and she she says said, you know, one thing that I think is a little tricky about the whole vintage trend. I'm paraphrasing a little bit. But she said, um, you know, you can you can add vintage design cues to watches, but they don't actually mean anything. It becomes a style choice rather than something with a genuine connection with the past, and we're not, you know, I mean and she she basically said uh that she felt like that was less interesting. Um and so do you feel that the well of uh nostalgia is number one, do you feel that the well of nostalgia is starting to run dry? And number two, um do you think that she has a point? Absolutely. I think that there's detached |
| Unknown | from a real connection with the past. I I think so. I mean it depends on the brand. Yeah. Um, some brands have a pass that they can call on quite directly. Um, and some haven't even leveraged it that well, and they're gonna miss the boat because the taste will move on to something else. Um I I think that there's a case to be made that it's manufactured nostalgia or nostalgia for nostalgia's sake, not for the value or authenticity of what you're referring to? Yeah, you know, um the something just oc |
| Unknown | curred to me. Um you were to we were talking earlier and you had brought this up about uh industries that kind of mirror what's going on in the watch industry. And here's a situation where I think the restaurant industry in New York is kind of mirroring what's going on uh with the watch industry. There' sos much nostalgia mining going on. Like Thomas Keller's TAC room just opened. And it's basically a reimagining of mid-century country club food, but it but executed at such a high level that it almost transcends that genre. But you know, it's it's sort of but you start to wonder, and restaurant critics in New York are starting to wonder this, you know, like I like really how many like, you know, high-end places that serve Crab Louie and Prime Rib off a silver rolling cart can can we possibly absorb at this point Yeah. And I think that that's a relevant question for um, you know, sort of like vintage inspired watches too. It |
| Unknown | 's like I I agree. And I I think I think I I know very little about the food scene in any city, certainly about New York, but I I you could in some ways, mirror this in film. We are entering the end of Star Wars. Yeah. Which has been a very long run. Some people some people would say that happened a long time. That's a fair point. And and I'm not actually a Star Wars fan or old, new, or any of the ones in the middle, I think they're all right. Well I am and I have I have strong feelings on the subject, so we probably don't want to go down that rabbit hole. But I think my my only point is that like my my five-year-old really likes the movies, uh the Star Wars with that Ray character in it. I'm really making it seem like I haven't seen it many Star Wars. Um I just can't remember which one she's in versus not of the last three or four they've made. But if they're going to officially say we're not making more Star Wars canon films, then they're essentially saying, like, we've mined the nostalgia of this to the extent that this generation will allow. Because all my five-year-old daughter sees is a uh like a strong woman with a really awesome laser sword. Two things that are great. But she doesn't have any of the context for why that's somebody's like generational footnote. It's on all their t-shirts, it's on all their walls, right? It's the background on their computer. And I think like in in much the same way, you you enter a phase where we've made so many references, good and bad, to things that don't exist anymore. Yeah. The time, the sphere in which like like dive watches came because people wanted to dive. Almost nobody dives anymore, and when they do, they don't wear a dive watch. That has to catch up at some point |
| Unknown | . reached a a point of sufficiency after a while, and then it became more about s you know, sort of cosmetic differentiation than about actual technical improvement. I mean like once you get to the point where you have a six hundred meter dive watch that you don't need a helium escape valve for, what else is there sort of left to do from a practical standpoint? And you know, in the sixties and early seventies, when you know the undersea world of Jacques Cousteau was on TV, um, you know, people were going to recreational diving in droves in a way that I suspect they're not anymore. Yeah. |
| Unknown | I I think you know, to to both of your point, like I I think there there are sort of three types of watch design I'm seeing a lot of today. And I I think, you know, James, I kinda had a similar, you know, thought to you that I I think we're at peak faux vintage watch. You know, I think you know we have watches that that are explicitly trying to recreate or capture To sell you a new vintage watch. Right. Exactly. Then there's watches that are are just classic designs in their nature. Which will never go away, absolutely. Which will never go away. And I think that's like the some mariner and speedmaster professionals of the world. Like if you go buy a a modern Speedy Pro, it's not a vintagery issue. It's just a thing that hasn't changed very much. Yeah. It's just like they keep making the same thing and they make it incrementally better and they make tiny changes to it. But like it's essentially the same thing. Once every fifteen years they scratch their heads and say, Well, let's make the packaging a little fancier. Um but you know, it's the same why. Yeah, and and there's no point at which they were like, oh, we should remake the Speedmaster or oh the Speedmaster harkens back to an older time. It's like you see a guy wearing a speed master on the subway and you're like, oh, that guy is a speedmaster. You're not like, oh, is that that guy has like a faux vintage thing? Like it doesn't, it doesn't do that. In the same way that like a modern no-date sub does not register as like a quote unquote like vintage inspired watch. |
| Unknown | It's kind of a watch. The Speedmaster in in particular is a watch that's kind of frozen in time though, right? Because it's been it's been certified for manned space flight by NASA. To make any major changes to it would would mean presumably that it would have to be recertified in its new form. So it's it's kind of it's it's perfect as it is, I guess in the in the eyes of those who are making it and and in the eyes of many people who want to buy it |
| Unknown | . I mean in the eyes of the Russian space agency, it's still space agency, it's still fine for EVA. I mean, they're up there on EVA suits as we speak on the ISS. And |
| Unknown | then I think just to just to finish the thought, there's there's a third category of watches, which is what the Octo stuff is is a part of, which is sort of forward looking. So there's explicitly backward looking, there's explicitly forward looking, and then there's stuff that just like doesn't change. And I think we're shifting from an era where we're predominantly focused on looking back with a little bit of the never changing to now, I think we're gonna start the pendulum's gonna start swinging the other way and we're gonna see a lot of these classic designs, but then also a lot of new stuff. And and I guess you know, if if I had to come in with a with a hot take here, uh it would be that like the industry has its work cut out for them. Like they watch makers and watch designers uh after, you know, this year I think we can all agree was kind of a treading water year. It was, you know, let's let's update some products. That's the phrase I was reaching for. Yeah, let's like let's like make some new things. Nothing revolutionary for the most part. Uh make sure that we level out stock, kind of like manage brand equity, all these things. It's like it's a quiet year. That doesn't make it a bad year, but it's a quiet year. But if they're gonna keep the people who, you know, the enthusiasts and the real diehards interested, next year's gotta be big. Like somebody has to swing for the f |
| Unknown | ence. One other just, I guess, kind of tangential point to all of this is that if you go down the road of making vintage reissues a big part of what you're doing, you're basically you're creating a product line for which you don't even need a designer. And that's something I think that you need to think about |
| Unknown | . I think it has genuinely already hurt the industry in terms of the imagination and the scope of what it's cre |
| Unknown | ating. Anyone who listens to this show regularly will know this is my absolute favorite thing to talk about is like what what is happening to good new ideas and are we fostering a generation of watch designers trained to think creatively and to have good ideas? And I I think hopefully yes |
| Unknown | . Right? Um You know, I mean tail fins in cars. They went bananas with those for a while, and then, you know, they became gradually more and more restrained. And uh, you know, the the sort of notion of what you could do with the front and the back end of a car continued to evolve. And I think we're gonna see the same thing with uh with vintage. I think it's gonna become you know, hearkening back to the um past design icons of a company, I think it's something that a lot of companies sort of forgot that they were doing uh for forgot that was possible. You know, in this in the seventies and eighties, you know, I mean you have to remember the watch industry from a technical standpoint was really driven by novelty. Um, starting in the nineteen fifties with the invention of electric watches, then the Accutron came along, tuning fork movements came along, quartz came along, and what people wanted was the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And the idea that you could actually look back and sell watches that way, I think was, you know, part that was part of the mechanical watch renaissance. And um you know, I I agree with James, I think that it's been um you know we're we're getting to the point now where that's s starting to look a little predictable um if it's not kind of enriched with some other ideas. Yeah. Um but I think that that's what's gonna happen. I mean it has to happen. |
| Unknown | Yeah, I don't I don't think the products in that space are bad. No, no, no. Yeah, no, no. Some of them are incredible. They're great. I love that old Doxa. I love the black bays. Like there's there's a lot of really good examples. But there's now so much that it feels like the signal to noise is at the point where we need to move on. Yeah. Because we have all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe maybe we need our next gen tip. |
| Unknown | I think is what it boils down to. All right. So we're gonna we're gonna have to wrap up here. Uh just so the audience knows we got through like less than half of what we were planning on talking about. So we might have to come hit you hit you up with another episode uh about this sometime soon. But instead of doing cultural recommendations, uh I thought it would be fun to finish this week's episode uh with each of us recommending a story written by somebody else. Uh particularly what is the story we published on Hodinky this year that you are most jealous that you did not write |
| Unknown | ? Yeah, John? I would say probably the coverage we did around uh the Monaco's fiftieth anniversary and specifically our coverage from the Monaco Grand Prix, which James did. Yeah. That is uh I mean I think going going to uh you know any Formula One race is a is a tremendous uh sporting experience. And the Monaco Grand Prix is in my opinion like |
| Unknown | That might be the hottest take actually you did on this podcast right there is is the Monaco Grand Prix bigger than the Super Bowl. I think it is. On a global scale, probably definitely at John about that |
| Unknown | . Yeah, feel free to add me. I mean globally he's 100% correct. Yeah, of course he is. Yeah. And it's you know, if you ever have a chance to go, I mean like don't even think about it, just go. Um it's one of the coolest Nice |
| Unknown | . Jack? Actually the story that uh I was uh the most jealous of this year was um the uh Bulgary uh Octofinissimotra Ul thin GMT chronograph automatic. Um I re I dug that watch and uh you know I couldn't have done a better job than John did, but uh yeah I would have loved to I would have loved to stick my teeth into that one |
| Unknown | . Nice. James? Mine's more of a blanket. I think like any of the ones where Heaton went diving in in Bonair. Yeah. Fair. That's kinda on on level. Yeah, but that's not I wish I wrote that. That's I wish I'd been in Bonair diving. This is true That's a fair sentiment. Especially this time of year, man. A a a dive in Bonaire with a great dive watch would be uh would be um yeah, it would turn out a good story. And and they always and I can't do it at Heaton's level, so there's a reason he's the one in Bonaire and I'm not but uh he uh he routinely puts out these great stories. I mean and and the one that I referenced earlier about the the his sub two hundred and the story of the guy who bought it when he was sixteen at the dive shop and he has photos and it's I thought that was really great. I mean that that that's what that's what's awesome about old dive watches. That's a that's actu |
| Unknown | ally another story I wish I'd written and that in no way could I have written. Like that's it's such a Jason story. The guy contacted him. It's |
| Unknown | so cool. It's good story, you should read it.. Yeah We'll link it up. Uh mine is gonna be the review that James did of the Rolex Explorer. I, as everybody probably knows, am a vintage explorer owner. I love the Explorer. If I had to pick one watch forever, it would be an Explorer. And when we realized that we had never actually done like a thorough review of one, we were all kind of baffled. It just felt like something we must have done. But James uh took that on. It's no easy feat. It's a really important uh watch with a ton of history. Uh and to get into it and say kind of, you know, the the current version I would say is is a bit controversial for for enthusiasts, uh but is still a wildly popular watch uh and an awesome watch. And to really get to kind of see you uh push it and and see kind of what what stands up, what doesn't, uh and and kind of the state of the explorer today. Uh was a lot of fun. Aaron P |
| Unknown | owell Yeah, I th I would also add that watch was so thorough or that story was so thoroughly researched. Uh I know it's a weak on the wrist, but it's really like reference grade material in the story. So if you haven't read that, we should link it up. So you can. Yeah, we will. We'll link all of these up. Yeah. That's gre |
| Unknown | at. Awesome. Thanks, dudes. Halfway through the year. Yeah. We only got another half to go. Then what? 2020 baby. More watches. There it is. Um and four so far four trade shows and counting next year. Yeah. Uh that's a whole other thing. We'll talk about that another time. But uh yeah, we're through the first half of the year. I'm sure we'll see some good new stuff on the back half and we'll be uh right back here to tell everybody all about it, right? We will. Awesome. Thanks guys. Thank you. This week's episode was recorded at Hodinky HQ in New York City and was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show. It really does make a difference for us. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. |