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Ini Archibong (Designer, Hermès)

Published on Mon, 3 Jun 2019 12:44:41 +0000

The Swiss-based, California-raised designer shares how he went from a die-hard watch nerd to creating his own collection for Hermès.

Synopsis

This episode features an in-depth conversation with Ani Archibong, a designer based in Neuchâtel, Switzerland, who designed the Galop d'Hermès watch collection. Host Stephen Pulvirent reconnects with Archibong after first encountering his furniture and lighting designs at Milan's Salone del Mobile in 2016. The discussion explores how Archibong's passion for watches, sparked by his brother's collecting while playing professional basketball in Europe, led him to pursue design education at ÉCAL in Lausanne, Switzerland. From there, he connected with Philippe Delhotal at Hermès and began what would become a rigorous education in luxury watchmaking and design.

The conversation delves into Archibong's design philosophy and his approach to creating the Galop d'Hermès. He describes how he studied iconic watch designs to understand what makes them immediately recognizable—focusing on silhouette and case shape as the primary identifier. Drawing from Hermès' equestrian heritage and time spent in the company's archives studying saddles, harnesses, and buckles, he created a watch with a stirrup-inspired silhouette. Archibong also discusses his broader design work, including upcoming projects with Knoll and Dario Pegoretti bicycles, his preference for creating objects that embody paradoxes (solidity and etherealness, luminosity and shadow), and how living in Switzerland's quieter pace has enhanced his creative process. The episode concludes with Archibong sharing his personal watch collection, including pieces from Panerai, HYT, and his admiration for F.P. Journe, before wrapping up with cultural recommendations and rapid-fire questions.

Transcript

Speaker
Unknown I love those moments in life where you unexpectedly put two and two together, realizing those chance connections between things, often weeks, months, or years after they've happened. Honestly, it's no small part of why I ended up a journalist. Back in January, I was preparing for an interview at SIHH with a designer who I'd been told was working with Hermes on a totally new watch collection. His name was Any Archibong, and I just couldn't figure out why that name sounded so familiar. I mean, Ani Archibong isn't a name you soon forget, right? A quick Google search later and I realized that I'd seen and loved some of his furniture and lighting designs at Milan's Salona del Mobile Fair back in 2016. The work had left a strong impression in the back of my And suddenly I knew what one of my highlights of SIHH was going to be. Sure enough, chatting with Enie about his watch, the Galope dermes, was a breath of fresh air during the show. Before I left the booth, we decided that a longer conversation right here on Hodinki Radio was a no-brainer. Despite hailing from Pasadena, California, Innie lives in Newshatill, Switzerland, so it took some time for the stars to align. But while in town for New York Design Week, Innie swung by the Hodinki offices just before hopping on his flight back to Switzerland. We talked about how his love of watches led him to attend design school in Switzerland, what it's like to learn about watchmaking from inside Hermes, and the challenges of being innovative in a tradition-minded industry. Eny an's awesome guy, and if he hadn't had that flight to catch, I think you'd be looking at a two or three hour episode here. I'm your host Stephen Pulverin and this is Hodinky Radio. This week's episode is presented by Zenith Watches. Stay tuned later in the episode to hear about how 50 years ago Zenith changed the chronograph game forever with the release of the iconic El Primera. You can also visit Zenith-Watches.com to learn more. I've actually never seen that. That's really funny. I like that. Cool. Let's do it. All right. Good to see you. Thanks for joining us. Uh thanks for having me. So you're in town for New York Design Week, right? Yeah. Yeah. Every year I come here during May for New York by
Unknown design. How uh how was this year? It was good. It was good. I mean it's for me it's kind of uh it's become kind of routine. I do the same thing every year. I land, I usually land a day of the opening of Wanted Design Manhattan and go to the opening party and kind of get to see what's new and fresh, you know, the New York design scene there and then spend the weekend going to Soho and visiting you know the different showrooms. Then Monday night get together for a dinner with friends and fly out Tuesday. You got you got it down.
Unknown Oh yeah. Yeah. It's the only way to do New York. Yeah, I'm based in Noshetel, Switzerland. How long have
Unknown you been based in Switzerland? Uh I guess almost five years now. Wow. Yeah. I went to uh I moved to Switzerland from Singapore um to go to school at ICAL in Lausanne. Yeah and um yeah after I finished my studies I was like well why would I leave? This place is great. W what' youd love so much about it? Um I think it's the way of life, you know, it's like uh there's something kind of rural about life in Switzerland, even if you're in, you know, the city and um you know I was living in Basel, but even when I was living in Basel, I was living in Basel land, which is outside of Basel. So, you know, my routine was like wake up in the morning, walk my dog like up the hill and be in like a forest you know walking around like a Christmas tree farm and stuff like that. Um I don't know, it's inspiring. It's just a way of life. I mean, now I live in Nochatel and I I live with a lake view and it's I can't imagine living in a different way. Like I feel like I'm always gonna need to live on the
Unknown water from now on. Yeah. And you're from Pasadena originally, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean Nushitel and Pasadena, not uh not exactly the same thing. Not the same thing,
Unknown but funnily similar in some ways. Um Pasadena, I mean Pasadena's. Yeah, Pasadena's interesting, but there's there's um there's a quaintness about Pasadena. It's not LA, you know, it's um it's got its own character. And, you know, being at the end of the 110 freeway kind of means it's like last stop. So people aren't necessarily passing through. So it's it's just a different vibe than LA. And uh you know, I think that's one of the things that made Switzerland easy for me to adapt to. I think if I grew up in like LA it might have been it might have been difficult, but you know, I'm I'm kind of used to a slow paced lifestyle, I'd say. Nice. Not a New York lifestyle at all.
Unknown That's why you get in and get out.
Unknown Yeah, I mean Switzerland definitely has a slower pace of life. I think we can all Yeah, I mean I was in Lausanne for a week before we were recording this. Uh just got back a couple of days ago and it is it is extremely refreshing to go uh stare at the water and have out home at night, you know. It's like we we were staying in the middle of the city and it's like you open the window at night and you hear nothing. And like it's a it's a city, it's not country, but yeah, it'
Unknown s it's incredible. It's amazing. Uh really it's like living in a postcard. And um and to me, when when you say you're in Lausanne, like that I mean that's where I went to school and to me it's like a college town where it's like I think about Lausanne I'm like oh man that sounds hectic all right that is that is very different from uh my my frame of referen Yeah. I mean have you you've been to Nochatel? Yeah. Yeah. I mean Nochatel is like quiet, quiet. And you know, all the buildings are old, basically. Um you know, things close early. Things are closed from like noon to three basically. Yeah. And um you know it's it's just it's different. It's not like it's there's not people aren't coming to Nochatel. You know, people are going to Lausanne, people are going to Zurich, people are going to Geneva. And I think that's one of the reasons that I like it there. You know, it's yeah. It's it's quite refreshing and and it's good for
Unknown my concentration. Yeah. I would imagine that the the sort of like your creative process there is very different than it would be if you were in LA or New York or even Geneva or Zurich.
Unknown Oh, for sure. I mean if I was in New York, I'd be like hanging out with people. It's terrible for
Unknown work. So you you mentioned that you ended up in Switzerland 'cause you went to school there. Yeah. What made you want to go to school in Switzerland? You know, it's like uh
Unknown it's a weird it was a w it's a weird journey. I mean it's like uh talking like like speaking things into existence you know. Um the first time I think it crossed my mind was I was at school, I went to art center in Pasadena um and studied uh environmental design there. And you know, it's it's kind of industrial design and architecture and all these things. And um and at that time my older brother um was getting into collecting watches also. And um he was a professional basketball player. He actually played with Kobe and Shaq on the Lakers. Um and after uh he he had it was a short stint on that team. It was like the third championship team. So he walked on and it's it's uh possibly one of the best teams ever. Yeah. And um and so, you know, even though he was disappointed when, you know, he didn't he didn't last through the entire season, it was just like such an amazing feat. And then he went over to Europe, you know, to play and you know became a big star, like a lot of success. And he started collecting watches. And I would go and visit him in uh in Germany. And um he just would be showing me watches and showing me like the Vempe books and and taking me into Bucharera and like showing me stuff and then I kind of got into watches as a thing, you know, just the beauty of them and and also the mechanics and all these things intrigued me as I was getting to be a designer in school. And I remember um at the time I kind of jokingly was like, yeah, maybe someday I'll I'll move to Switzerland and learn watchmaking. That would be really cool. Um so that was like kind of the first spark, you know. And then when I found out about a cow during around that same time, because it's just like you know when you're just like bullshitting basically just like distracting distracting yourself from what you should be doing. Um I was searching on the internet looking at schools and I s I found ICAL, they did a project with Automars PG, um and it was the Mass Masters in Luxury program. And then I just I started looking at the school and I was like, wait, they're this school is doing exactly what I want to be doing that I didn't know there was a school teaching, you know, because at Art Center I was learning a lot of great skills and um you know I was learning to express myself as an individual also, but my individual expression was leaning in a direction that you don't really have uh the I guess you could say uh it's not that there's nowhere to learn about luxury in America, but America is a very young country. You know, so the stuff that I was leaning toward fit with the within the luxury market. Um, but I didn't know how to learn that in the States, so it was refreshing to find a cow. And so thank you. Yeah, thank you, Chelsea. Chelsea bringing us bringing us coffee. Thanks, Chelsea. Yeah. Oh man. Um no, but the it was that was just kind of the seed that was planted back then. And um and then as things went forward because the seed was there, you know, there came a point where I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do it. And I just moved to Switzerland. And it was amazing. It was like I'm closer to watches. Um I'm getting an opportunity to learn about luxury. And it kind of shifted my career dire
Unknown ction. That's amazing. I mean, it's it's kind of funny that it was really your love of watches that kind of led you to this place that then impacted work that extends far beyond your work on watches. Oh yeah., completely And you know the I think
Unknown there was my approach to design and to my career within design, you know, was always been um was always been about being open and broad with my approach to what I'm capable of designing. Um so I always knew that there was no reason that I couldn't design a watch. And one of the things that you know, the fact that being a watch fan um guided me to Switzerland was not lost on me when I was in school. And I definitely, you know, the whole time I was in school I was telling my instructors like, Hey, if there's any chance for me to like do anything in the watch industry, I'm here for that. You know, and I got to work with Vashar on Constantin. Nice. And uh when we were in school, we did a project with them and that was when I was like, I mean, I was so annoying. I was in there like trying to meet like the HR people. Like every time we would visit, like we were in, you know, we I it's crazy actually remembering like we were in when we when they gave us a tour we were in like the back rooms you know like where like the like the masters are are making like the the really, really, really special watches. You know, the type of stuff that you don't have access to. And since I've lived in Switzerland, I've seen the equivalent of that room there and at uh at AP Uh and you know, met like gotten to shake hands with the the guys that are like, you know, when you when you get a Vashron constant one of one and this guy's been working on it himself. This is the guy who makes it. This is the guy. That's amazing. Yeah. And being at the being at the school, being at a cow allowed for that to happen and and it allowed for me to like for the abstract idea of someday designing a watch to become palpable and real and at my fingertips. You know, so by the time I graduated, I was like, I I have to do something, you know, with watchmaking. There's no other way it could be
Unknown And so how long then did it take for you to get from from graduating and saying like I I need to do something in watchmaking to the first project where you actually got to to work on a watch?
Unknown Um like a few months. Oh, okay. So you so you you got into it? Oh no, no. Literally like, right when I graduated, I went to uh Nicolas Lemois. Do you know who that is? No, I don't think. He's actually like the he's the ambassador of the Cartier Drive Watch. Oh, cool. But he was also the head of our program, the Masters of Luxury program. Oh nice. And um I went to him like right when I graduated and I was like look I mean in in all in all honesty I'm an independent designer. I've been an independent designer for quite a while. Um, but like there's you don't get a monthly paycheck being an independent designer. So at the time I was like I have to contemplate, you know, the idea that I might need to have like a job, you know. So um I told him, I was like, if there are any opportunities, even if it's like just getting my foot in the door, like being an intern, whatever, if there's something in the watch industry that comes along, um, please let me know. And uh I you know I was still making my furniture and doing everything like that, but I was like, I'll basically take any opportunity to do something in watchmaking while I'm in Switzerland. And um he came back to me with the email of Philip Del Hotel from Hermes. And he was like, he just connected us and he was like, uh, you guys should meet. He's like, Philippe had come in and spoken with him. And um, and then I was asking about watchmaking, so he's like, You guys should just meet. So we went in and had coffee and that was like just like a couple months after I graduated. That's crazy. And so how how long ago was that? That was two thousand. Okay. Actually, you know, the funny thing is that so ICAL is uh it's a Swiss school, you know, it's like the equivalent of like a state school. Um it's it's I mean this is a whole nother topic, but like basically it's like one of the top design schools in the world and everybody's going there basically for free. Right. Cause it's like it's like going to like I don't know if is it SUNY or one of these it's like something like that. Right. And um so the master's program that I was in was the only it's the only like kind of international program in the school. And it's like the only program that you really have to pay for. And so like everybody's like, oh, you guys are paying, but it's like I got a master's for eight grand.
Unknown Yeah, I got a master's for way more than eight grand shit. I think I did it wrong
Unknown . But um yeah, so so this program was the only program that's um that's taught. It's for international. So it's taught in English. You know, the rest of the school is taught in French and this was um in English. So most of my peers were from all over the place. I mean, just last night I was uh hanging with um one of the guys that graduated with Rodrigo he's from Canada um and his business partner Enrico's from uh from Italy you know, and we all went to this program and it's like all these people from all over the world in this program, like they choose fifteen. You know, it's it's pretty hard to get into uh this program. I think out of hundreds of applicants they take like fifteen students and I I'm pretty sure that part of the way the selection process goes is making sure that it's kind of an international representation of people. Um even though I think I might have been like one of the first Americans.
Unknown I was gonna ask 'cause Switzerland, for all the wonderful things about it, can sometimes be a a very insular place. Oh totally. And I wonder what it was like for you as as a young American guy showing up in Lausanne, Switzerland, and you know, being in this program where there's essentially fifteen international students in this whole school. What what was that kind of adjustment period like? Did you find yourself being treated differently, getting more opportunity, less opportunity? How how did that go? I mean, you know, it's
Unknown so one thing is that um the Swiss are quite insular in the sense that they're like they do their own thing, you know, and they're okay with like doing their own thing. You know. And it doesn't really matter like if if you don't like it, it's like, sure, you can but it's also not it's not like they're not like standoffish, you know, it's like they're also very welcoming. Um so I think it wasn't difficult for me to adjust really. Um it was I mean to be honest, it it it it's like a world of difference from like being in America, but at the same time, it's so amazing that like I don't know, it wasn't like I never at any moment was like, oh my god, I wish I was at home. Except except if you miss lunchtime, then there's no way to get food.
Unknown I think any of us who go regularly have been there. Lunch stops at two o'clock.
Unknown But no, I I didn't have that much of a problem. And I think if anything, for me personally, and I think this is one of the reasons that like I really uh enjoy continuing to live there is that for my personality and my like like obsessive, compulsive like tendencies and all these things. Switzerland is like the perfect place for me. Yeah. So like the way that things are there culturally, it's just it's a good fit for me, I think. Um and also it like my negative tendencies, like my inability to concentrate, you know, and like all those things. Um, you know, in a place like Switzerland, I'm not really easily distracted, or I'm not susceptible to you know the things that would prevent me from being successful. Um, and I I love that
Unknown . And now I'll look at this week's sponsor. 2019 marks the 50th anniversary of Zenith's iconic El Primero chronograph. It's kind of hard for us today to fully comprehend just how innovative this now legendary movement was back in 1969. Not only were there no high-speed automatic chronographs available, there were no automatic chronographs of any kind. Paired with this technical achievement was the eye-catching design of the original El Primero, the Reference A386. Known for its three colored sub-dials, its signature red seconds hand, and its distinctive ladder style bracelet. The A386 looked every bit the part of a chronograph from the future. It's a true testament to the expert engineering and timeless design that the El Primero feels every bit as contemporary and fresh today as it did five decades ago when it changed watchmaking history forever. To celebrate the El Primera's 50th birthday, Zenith has released a trio of limited edition watches that faithfully recreate the original A386, but in yellow gold g,old, rose and white gold. Only fifty pieces will be made in each metal and they're sure to become modern classics. For more about Zenith Watches and the legendary El Primero, visit zenith-watches.com. Alright, let's get back to the show. I want to make sure we get into the watch you designed. Oh, from uh Hermes. Yeah, I wish I had one of those. I mean I brought some of my other watches, but oh amazing. We'll get we'll get into that too. So I I thought let's let's walk through the Gallop. So so from your meeting with Hermes, how did how did you designing not just a dial variation or some like little kind of like capsule thing, but instead actually designing like a whole new watch from the ground up for AirMez, how how did that happen and how did you kind of approach that? I mean, that's a pretty daunting prospect to have hanging in front of you
Unknown . Yeah, it is. I mean, and also not only was it daunting, but like in a very Hermes way and also very Swiss way. Um Philip Delotal kind of taught me how to design uh watches in a very um I wouldn't say hands off, but in a very non pushy sort of um sensei um Mr. Miyagi sort of way. Because like after our first meeting, he didn't even he didn't he didn't tell me to design a watch. He said uh he's like basically he was like if if you have any cool ideas for watches feel free to just like show me okay
Unknown yeah just like at Hermes.
Unknown And like, you know, we'd sat and had like the whole coffee, like chatted, I showed him my work, you know, and in that conversation, he had asked like oh so you designed a watch and I was like never so then for the meeting to end and for it to end in a way where I'm like I'm still thinking I'm still thinking I'm like kind of possibly interviewing for an internship or something. You know, I'm like, I don't know where this is going. But we got to meet and I'm like, well, the next thing I want to do is get I want to get into the manufacturer. I want to like go and see what they're doing. So I'm like, yeah, I wanna come see you in Beale and um Brooke and he was like, Yeah, and if you have any ideas about you know watch, bring it with you. So then I went home and I started designing a watch you know that's basically what happened and uh and when I showed up you know it I didn't show up right away I wanted to make sure that like I did as much as I could to get it uh like my vision right and my education at art center had really, you know, taught me how to like basically at Art Center you learn that's like anything that needs to be designed can be done in fourteen weeks. Okay. If I have fourteen weeks, then I'm gonna be able to show up with a presentation that has research, renderings, and technical draw
Unknown ings about how I think this thing will be made. So is that 14 weeks like broken out into like, okay, week one is this step, week two is this step, or is it is 14 weeks
Unknown just kind of a number around. At this point, fourteen weeks is just kind of there, but that's how long a semester is it uh trimester is at Art Center. So it's like you from the day you walk into a class until like the final presentation is fourteen weeks. And being like doing uh the furniture studio is also a very particular studio at Art Center where um your final presentation isn't just like pictures. You have to have like a fully functioning piece of furniture that can go into a showroom or store like straight out of that presentation or else you fail. Okay. Like you're not even like you don't even get considered for a grade unless we're look looking at like an actual production ready thing. So knowing that like after doing that so many times, like you know, every literally is a year round school. So you know, you would take like two weeks of break in between in between uh semesters or trimesters and then you go back to it and each semester, you know, it's like it's not you just one class, you know, you 14 weeks to show up with like four or five finished things at the end of the semester. So after sitting down with him and him being like, yeah, can you show me a watch? I'm like, well, 14 weeks from now, we're gonna have a watch
Unknown . I knowing the pace at which the watch industry usually moves, he m I mean did he roll his eyes at you when you said 14 weeks? I mean, I didn't say that too. Oh, okay. I just showed up. L
Unknown ike when I I think so when I did go back to meet with him, I think he was expecting me to show up with some sketches. But instead I had as much of what I could have figured out for the watch um done. Like I had like a presentation of like you know my research into her mes and then a design not the gallo um this was um my first attempt and he didn't he didn't laugh at me but he he looked at the watch and like started pointing out all the things that were just like physically impossible. He's like he's like, yeah, so like a bezel, there's a minimum with okay. Yeah. You know, things like that. Um and you know, the some of the ideas like, you know, the surfacing that I was doing, he's like he's like, Yeah, this case would be very difficult. And like, you know, I attempted to make uh my own typeface and like it was basically I'd taken uh like I'd modified a font to make it kind of what I wanted. And he just started pointing out all the things that were um that could be worked on, but I think he saw a spark there and that I think is what led to me actually getting a brief to design a watch, which led to the Gallo. Because um yeah, like that first watch that I that I showed up with is not the Gallo, but it I think it let him know that I was capable of of achieving,
Unknown you know, watch design. Yeah, and that you were serious too, that you showed up with much more than he probably expected, just given your your you know, your background and your education. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that all you
Unknown know um that all helped me get to the point where I got the opportunity to to design the gallo. Nice. And even with that it wasn't the gallo wasn't my first response to the brief. Um you know, I presented at least two other um women's watches, you know, in response to that brief before we got to the gall
Unknown ow. So we'll we'll link up in the show notes. We'll send some put some links to the watch so people can see it, but can you describe the finished watch to us? Yeah. Um you know
Unknown the how do you say I guess the way to describe it would be to describe what makes it different from other watches. Um so it's not um the case shape is atypical, asymmetrical, um but not weird. I'll I'll agree I'll agree with that, yeah. You know, um and I think the best you know description that other people have said because it's hard for me to describe necessarily my own stuff, but um somebody said that it looks like it should have already existed in the Airmez catalog. Yeah. I would agree with that. That to me was like exactly what I was aiming for. And everything that I did, you know, leading working on the project, working on the brief until the gallow, um, that was what was missing, was like each iteration and each design, no matter how good they were, they didn't feel like um like uh like an obvious natural fit the way that the ghetto does. And the I think what it is about it is just simply the fact that um I spent time figuring out what the elements of an Aramez product were and where they came from, and that's why it has the shape that is reminiscent of a stirrup. Um and the stirrup is the first read, you know, when you look at it. And the way that the way that I approached it was just that um they asked for an iconic watch and maybe um they asked for an iconic watch and at the time you know my one of my favorite watches in my first watch is uh panorai, um Pan 112. And so the first thing that I did was start thinking about like when you're a Panorai guy, like you can spot one from like, you know, a mile away. You know, you're like rocking a panorine. Like if you really got an eye, you might be able to catch the reference even, you know. But um so that was for me the I started thinking about like why is that? You know? And then I was like, well, and I'm not I'm not necessarily a Rolex guy, but I'm like, I'm sure this is the same for like Rolex guys. And then I was like, well and I'm not like a tag hero guy, but I'm like, but I definitely know when I see like, you know, uh what is it, the Monaco? Yeah, you know, it's like I always know when I see a Monaco, you know, and like, you know, you see a uh uh Royal Oak, you're like, that's a Royal Oak. Even if you're not like an A P guy, you know, like a Nautilus, you're like, That's a not Nautilus. So I started thinking about what it was that made that happen. I realized like, well, if you strip down everything, um it's the silhouette of the case. It's like there's like you know you have the like if you treat the dial like negative space and you take away everything it's really just like the silhouette of that case is what allows you to know exactly what it is. So I knew that the first read on the gallo needed if it was gonna become iconic, it needed to be a silhouette thing that you would be able to identify from from anywhere. That you could strip away everything and just put it in positive, negative, black and white and a shadow, and you're like, that's what it is. Um so so that's why the first read was a stirrup because I was like, Well, the most to me the most uh emblematic thing about Hermes um is its relation to like the horse and the carriage and all those things and then within that the, most recognizable element in that that anybody, no matter what they know about horses, they know nothing or they know everything, the shape of a stirrup, you know that. Yeah. So I was like the first reading needs to be a stirrup. And then from there the the process was incorporating all of the other things that make Hermes Hermes into all of the detailing. Um and that's where, you know, spending time in the conservatory in their archives um gave me access to like all of the original, you know, like harnesses and like and like saddles and like like straps, you know, and that had to be pretty awesome to be just like rooting around the Hermes archive. It was insane. Yeah. And not just like rooting around. Rooting around with this guy Mark, he's like the historian and him just like literally explaining everything. That's so awesome. Like explaining, like, I would pick up a buckle and you'd be like, this is why that buckle is shaped like that. You know, because of like the time period, because of like, you know, the differences between like the the horses that are from different areas and their stature and like the approach to aristocracy and all these things like explaining everything to tell me why a buckle is shaped the way it's shaped. And that's when I realized like, oh, Hermes is about these details. And then I started looking at it's like it's literally like it's it once you understand it, it's like peeling off blinders. You're like you look at a purse and you're like, Oh shit, I get it now. Ye
Unknown ah. But like that's that's ultimately why design matters and why design's interesting, right? Because like a buckle that's made and that somebody maybe goes into a store and buys that buckle or that watch or that handbag or whatever, the shirt, whatever it is, you buy that. A lot of people buy it because it looks nice. It appeals to them, but maybe they don't understand or care why it appeals to them. Yeah. But there's all of these other things kind of wrapped up in that. There's there's the time, there's the place, there's the culture. All of those things are kind of held almost like a like a bug in amber, right? Like in that object, like perfect. Yeah, yeah. And then and then and then you have to think that
Unknown like if you're trying to design things that are not disposable, um then like the job becomes to embed to to embed all that stuff, you know, to embed so many things into the object, right? So that um so that it can like you're saying with with uh bug and amber it's like so that somebody later on after like I'm long gone you know somebody could like stumble upon this watch and they might be able to read all of that stuff you know from the object. Yeah. And that becomes the goal. And that's where it's and also with a watch is completely different than designing, you know, a piece of furniture, like uh, you know, or interior or anything like that, because people don't even I don't like there's no way for anybody to understand the gallow from looking at it in a picture. You might like the picture of it, but you really have to hold it to get a certain level of understanding of it, and then you need to put it on your wrist to get an even deeper understanding of it. And then you have to live with it to really get it. Yeah. And this is something that is particular to watch is where it's like this thing is on your skin all day. This thing is not just on your skin all day, but like you're looking at it constantly. And your your relation to a watch is completely different than your relation to almost anything else. Which is why to me it's hilarious whenever people are like, oh yeah, I can tell time with my phone. I'm like, yeah, it's not about that. We're off.
Unknown Yeah, you you missed the point. Yeah. Completely missed the point. I mean have you ever like looked at maybe looked at your wrist and then someone next to you says oh what time it isn't is it and then you have to look back and he worked that's not why you did that. That's not why I did that.
Unknown No exactly. That's really funny. I haven't thought about it but I do that constantly. Like I'm also like this. No it's funny because like I also like I am I love complications for other people. Like for me, like the most complicated I ever want my watch to be is like seconds. Like if I have seconds I'm like okay we're getting real crazy here because I never need to know what second it is. Yeah. I am uh exactly the same way. Yeah. So so then for me, it's like I have this habit of like whenever uh the the date comes up, people be like, what day is it? I'm like, ah, it's like Friday. Watts definitely didn't tell me that it's Friday. But I always do that. It's like just and and but you you live with like you live with with a watch, you know, and and that was the important thing with the the gallows that oh it needs to be iconic from the um from the spectator's perspective, but then for the owner it needs to be something really special, you know, and that's where like, you know, I had to be really um intentional about every surface. Um and that's one of the reasons that there are like there are no there's no there are no edges you know on the watch which I think is also something that makes it that separates it from a lot of other watches yeah is that um yeah, there there are no edges. The the the boundary of the form is defined by the reflection of the light off of the object. So you know that's that is uh for me like a very um essential part of the experience of the watch because it literally means that anytime your skin interacts with the watch, you know, it's like it's like rubbing two ball bearings against each other. It's just like, you know, that I don't know how to put in the words, but it's like a, you know, it's like it's like s beyond smoothness. It's it's like a it's just a a feeling that I think that the person that owns the watch will be able to have an intimate relationship with it. And that's different than looking at it. Yeah. You know No, that makes a ton of sen
Unknown se. Yeah. Well one of the things that's always interested me about your work in particular, which I I think the first time I saw your work was probably Salone 2016. Secret Garden. Yeah. Yeah. Um I did that with Terry Cruz. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was I was covering it for I I was working at Surface Magazine at the time. So we we covered it. And uh yeah, I remember walking around Salona and and seeing it and and kind of reading about it and doing the the research for the story is is the names and the stories that invest or you've invested in these objects are are extremely detailed and and really meaningful. And when you you see the object and you you hear kind of your thought process and and what goes into naming and describing these things, there's a ton of story in them. But for the vast majority of people who will encounter a coffee table or or a chandelier, they don't get the kind of luxury of sitting down and chatting to you about it. So how how do you think about making sure that that object can can communicate that story even if you're not there to tell it that's that's the key
Unknown is that um that's why I invest so much energy into um the the uh essence and spirit of the object is because what it needs the story that it needs to tell um doesn't need words to tell like you feel it and I think that's like if I have the opportunity to explain to you where it came from for me, then more likely than not, I think what people connect to is that it's a reaffirmation of what they felt before I started telling them what I put into it. Um so and what the feeling is like the story is like the background of the feeling. The feeling is the thing. You know, it's like when you're in the presence of the object and you feel the feeling, you get it. Now when I tell you that yeah, that feeling that you have is real and this is how I put that feeling into the object, then you're like, okay, cool. You know, but you don't need the description. Yeah. You know, you you you get it once you you're with it. And I think I think all objects do that. And I think that um because I feel that all objects do that, that automatically gave me a responsibility to be intentional with what I put into the objects that I design. And I think that um I it's very easy to not be intentional, but you can never escape the fact that you're putting energy into the things that you're that people are putting into their spaces and that energy is gonna affect those people. And if you're not intentional about it, then you could be throwing all sorts of energy all over the place. You know, and and not not realize what you're doing. But if you're intentional about it, then you know at least I I think like then you can try to positively impact people with the things that you create.
Unknown Yeah. I think one of the one of the I guess types of energy maybe that that your objects from from the furniture through to the the Gallop uh throw off for for me is the is tension. And there's there's a tension between sort of luminosity and and solidity and there's a sort of tension between things that are both clearly very solid but also very delicate. And and those those two interactions in particular I I think carry through a lot of your work. Is that are those both intentional or Yeah, I think that
Unknown like uh without getting too like esoteric or weird. We can get weird. I mean that that's the show is best when it gets weird. I think that like reality is the um experience of the coexistence of uh paradoxical things. Does that make sense? Yeah. So like everything everything ex in order for anything to exist it automatically encapsulates its opposite as well. So for me to create anything, um, it has to also be exactly what it's not. So m making it, putting that on the front line and putting that front and center, um, I think uh affects people in a certain way when it's like, okay, I'm obviously looking at two things that I thought don't coexist and they're both there. Yeah. You know, and I think that people are attracted to that. And I think that artists play with that constantly and that's you know that's it's yeah that's it's that's what we do. So for me, being true to myself as an artist, I think the things that I play with in that sense are always gonna be about exactly what you said, you know, solidity and etherealness and luminosity and shadow and you know, that that's just like my my language, you know as an as an artist, as a creative. So yeah, it's it's all intentional and it's you know, and not only that, it's every time I design something, I think I get better at it at doing it, you know? And it's it's always been there since the beginning of my design career. Mm-hmm. Yeah
Unknown . Wha what do you think you've learned most from working on the Gallo?
Unknown Ooh. I mean like really obvious is, you know, learning about watchmaking. You know, it's like I've learned about the limits of watchmaking, but on a deeper level, um I think there's like a that sensitivity that I was talking about about like what it means to be the difference between a spectator of a w of of something like a watch and an owner. Um that I didn't really fully understand until I s till I designed the watch. Um I d I didn't even really think about it that much. Um like I I've my career has been one of scale shifts. I started in architecture, I got down to interiors, then I got down to furniture. And then I got down to tabletop objects. Then I got down to a watch. You know. I'm trying to think where you're going next. Yeah. I have no idea. But you know, the the thing is that the intimacy changes as you change scales. And um before designing a watch I had never designed it that scale of intimacy. So um like my sensitivity I wasn't necessarily always paying attention to the sensitivity of um what things feel like on my skin as a design as design things, you know. Um and now I think I'm much more aware of that. Yeah. So that's probably the biggest thing. N
Unknown ice. Yeah, one of the one of the other things I wanted to touch on with this watch is is that it's it's primarily a a women's watch, but it's it's designed to be a unisex watch, right? It's there's there's a certain androgyny to it that's intentional. Yeah. The watch industry generally isn't very good at doing that. You know, they're they're good at making products for men and marketing them to men. Yeah. And they're good at making products for women and marketing them to women. And it's sort of like a narrow the two shell Aaron Powell From an industry standpoint. Yeah, from yeah, from the industry. From a consumer standpoint, it's very different. But from the industry standpoint, you know, the brief is to make a women's watch cover it in diamonds. It should probably be pink or baby blue or whatever. Men's watch should be big. It should probably have some carbon fiber on it. Like what I you know, it's like that's that's that's how the industry thinks in it in a lot of ways. So I I wonder you know, you a lot of the things you've worked on previously are are not gendered. Like I don't think I don't think many people are having conversations about like a coffee table for women. You know, like that's not how that goes. So is is that something you brought to the project or was that something that Hermes requested or how they asked for a wom
Unknown an's watch. Okay. Like they were like we need a ladies watch. And then uh and then I made a feminine watch um and I don't think that masculinity and femininity are they're not gender descriptions they're like attributes and qualities they're traits. Um so like in the approach to to make something that women would be attracted to, making it feminine was a logical thing to do. Making it feminine didn't make it a woman's watch. You know? So it's it's not gender. And it does fail in a lot of ways, you know, being completely honest, like at the end of the day when it's done, I'm like, well, it's overly feminine when I start looking at the width of the of the bracelet, right? You know, the like thin leather sh the thin alligator. That um that, you know, to me is is moving it that's that's getting it like further from center. Um but but what I did try to do with like in terms of like the size and the shape and all those things was to not get into yeah those stereotypes of what is for a woman. Um and and that's where it allowed it to be to be feminine but not for women. And I think that I didn't even talk to them about it really um in the process. Just something that I was that was part of my process, but not necessarily that I wasn't like, hey guys, you know, I I wanna shake things up here. Yeah. That's not what happened. Yeah. You know, I I wanted to stand on its own for answering the brief. Um but then after, you know, when it was done then we started having that conversation. Nice. And I'm glad that it's a conversation to be had 'cause it's like I said, I it by no means is it um spot on in terms of being like fully unisex and androgynous. It's still extremely feminine, um, to the point that it could almost be gendered but um I'm glad that we're having the conversation because the next step is to see what more watches are gonna come now that this conversation is being had. Ye
Unknown ah. Yeah, I think something that John John and I I mean I'll speak for myself, but I'm I'm sure John I would be shocked if you didn't feel the same way in in a certain way. You know, we're working we're working with with watches all day, every day, and we're watch enthusiasts, but we're also professionals, right? And you know, you you came to this as a watch enthusiast who now is a watch designer and a watchmaker, right? So did did working on this project change your relationship to watches as an enthusiast
Unknown ? No. Good, I guess. Yeah. I'm like pretty, I mean, like my watch kind of obsession runs pretty deep and it was like like long standing so like I'm still yeah it's still looking at the same way.
Unknown Um so you said you you got into it through your brother, right? Yeah. And how did that what what was the first watch you you got? How did how did you kind of like take the dive into the into the deep end. The first watch that was important
Unknown to me was um I think it was called Sector. Do you know that? Oh sure yeah it's a Sector. It was a chronograph and it had a uh Valju seventy seven fifty or seven fifty inside and um and that was important to me. And that was like that was a big thing to me because I knew that um that that was a movement that big high watch brands had in their watches. So it was like I have the same movement in my watch. You know, and it was um that's what I and at the time my brother had like uh I think he had a Brightling um was his first watch and then when he got his Panora I was like that's the only watch I want And um you know my first watch was the this panorama. But I do think that since living in Switzerland my appreciation has changed. I mean like I have the Slimner Mez um that absolutely love this watch um uh as a suit watch because it I realized like for a while it was just like panoramic boom, like with a suit, like with sneakers, whatever. Yeah. But then I realized like, oh, you know, like I can you started living in Switzerland for a while and and you know, you're like, yeah, there's a suit watch. Yeah. And that's where the slim comes in. And then I think the probably the strangest watch is this one. You're familiar with HYT? Yeah. Um, I just got this recently. And I don't think I would have gotten, I don't think I would have appreciated this watch before um moving to Switzerland. Oh, sweet. You know, and um you know, and it's also by by chance, you know, because like HYT is around the corner from my apartment. That makes it easy. And uh but I I think that like my appreciation for something like technical like that is a result of me living in s in Watchland. You know, I think that um as an enthusiast, I don't think I would have gotten to the point of appreciating that. If I I think if I hadn't moved to Switzerland, I probably would still just think, oh yeah, like Panorite, that's just what I what I wear. Yeah. But
Unknown it's funny 'cause looking at the HYT, it's it's not a brand I would have guessed that you would be into, but looking at it, it kind of makes sense. Oh no, it it totally does. Yeah.
Unknown It totally does. Especially that one. You know, the the the gold with the with the blue is like yeah with 'cause I also love bright sneakers and colorful shit. Like Thundercats t shirts and anime. It is like, you know, when I'm not when I'm not getting dressed up for a big event. It's like I love wearing that and just being a weird kid
Unknown . That's a cool thing, right? Like people peop, I mean, we talk about it all the time, but like this shit should be fun. Yeah. It's watches. Like let's let's not take it quite so seriously. I mean still, you know, there's a grand tradition and it's very high luxury and all of that, but like it should also be fun.
Unknown Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And you know, but the only I think the hardest thing about it being fun is that it's so expensive. It's true. You know, it's it's expensive to be fun. But you know, there's and but there's also different approaches. I have like like one of the other like I've like you know my watch friends you know like one of my mentors uh is an architect Mark Thorpe architect and designer here in New York and you know it's like there's also like the the motivation of having watch friends. Yeah. Like this guy, like we we uh we were just hanging out in Milan. Leading up to Milan, he just kept sending me random like corners of a picture of a watch. It's like randomly it would just be like like six o'clock. Like it would just be part of it. I was like, dude, what is that? He's like, it's coming. Like I'm like, he's like teasing me, teasing me, teasing me. And then finally we showed him Milan. He's just like, paddock. Like, fuck. I did not know that Mark Thorpe was a watch guy. You didn't know Mark? Oh, you know Mark, right? I I don't know him. Well, I've met him once or twice, but I yeah. He's huge watch guy. That's crazy. I never knew that. No, no. Me and him, like he got about watches all all day. Good to know. Oh yeah, yeah. No, you should talk to him about you should talk to him about his history of watches. Cause he's had a lot of crazy watches come through his hands, you know? Like and but like this was like the moment like both of us are like in the watch. So it's like, oh, like now it's a new level. Like you got a padgon that's different. Yeah. Yeah. It's no joke. Yeah. No, you know, design designers are are watch guys usually, you know, like other New York designers like Joe Du Say and Brad Askalon, like throughout the years uh we've always been like Yeah all about the watches. Yeah. It's like like what do you got on Yeah
Unknown . Joe I knew was a watch guy. Joe's uh yeah, Joe, we we've talked to uh a couple times about trying to collaborate on something fun, but nothing nothing yet. We'll see maybe down down the road. Joe's Joe's a crazy guy. Um I know you have to run soon 'cause you have to head out to the airport. But um before we wrap things up, I wanted to know what what are you working on next? What's coming up that you can talk about? There's so much secret sh
Unknown it going down. Um but I think I'm allowed to talk about the fact that I'm designing a collection for Noel. That's awesome. Um that who knows when it's gonna come, but we've started working on some stuff. Cool. Um there's gonna be a cool museum exhibition coming later this year. It's gonna be pretty insane. Awesome. It's got it got a lot of like synthesizer noises and glass. I love that. You're speak you're speaking my language right there. I love that. Um what else? Yeah, that's this this is stuff we could talk about. I mean Not about you up to So um yeah I think that's that's what I could talk about. Cool. Mm yeah. Stuff. Sweet. Oh, I might be doing a bike. A bike? Yeah. Like a motorcycle or a bicycle? Like a bicycle. Oh, cool. Have you heard of Dario Pegaretti? Ah. You were talking earlier about like the cultural picks. Yeah. That would be one. Okay. Everyone who's into watch is should look up a brand called Dario Pegaretti. These are like the bicycles you need to collect. They're the world's best steel frame bicycles made in Verona, Italy. And uh the bike maker Dario Pegaretti is like a legend in the biking world and he died recently. Um and you know, but they're still making the same quality bikes, and they do really not just exquisite um like steel frame bike making, but the way that they decorate the bikes, the way that they it's all hand painted. Um it's insane. And they're so good that a lot of people that buy their bikes, they buy the frames and they just mount them on their walls. Oh yeah. No no it's it's insane. So I've been I've been talking with them and uh I'm hoping to um we're we're gonna do something. So that's gonna be cool. Uh I'm with Friedman Benda Gallery here in New York. So you can look forward to seeing some products um through them this year. Nice or so. And you got you got a lot cooking. That's why I live in Switzerland where it's quiet, so I can get all the work done
Unknown . Cool. Well uh we're gonna do our our Hudinky questionnaire our rapid fire questions and then we'll uh we'll let you get to your to your flight. Cool cool cool. Um the first question is uh what's what's a watch you've seen recently that that caught your eye? T
Unknown wo this HYT It really caught your eye. Now it's on my wrist. Um that HYT for sure. Um what else is I mean I was just at SIHH, so I was looking at a lot of stuff. Well, you know, uh are you familiar with the photo line in? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's Yeah. Everything. Everything he does. And y he's probably so tired of this 'cause every time I see him I just walk up and I shake his hand. Carrie's a nice guy. I'm like thank you. Thank you. Um Dials are incredible, huh? Just insane. Insane. And then like uh yeah. I mean my favorite watch brand is F P join. Nice. Um always like
Unknown just staring at that stuff. Another one that I feel like designers are pretty into. Yeah. Yeah. It's because it's the best. Yeah. Awesome. Uh next question. Uh what's the best place you've traveled in the last year?
Unknown Copenhagen. Um Copenhagen's my favorite city in Europe right now. Nice. Um but honestly, like just the best place I've traveled. Like I went to Cape Town, that shit was awesome. South Africa is aw
Unknown esome. So I'd say South Africa. Cool. Yeah. What's uh what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given and who gave it to you? Mark Thorpe. He gave me my mantra. Show up, do dope shit. Perfect. I love that. I'm in. Can we get that great? Can we get that like on the wall of the studio? Ye
Unknown ah I don't know seriously, best advice I've ever gotten. Should I dope do dope shit? Perfect. That's gonna be my mantra
Unknown now too. I'm stealing that, man. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Man, seriously, we're getting a sign on the wall. Um And then the last question is uh what's what's your guilty pleasure? Guilty pleasure
Unknown . Guilty pleasure. Pizza. Oof. I mean, it's like it's so stupid. It's so stupid. It's it because it's just guilt. The guilt part is it's stupid, but it's the thing is that I like I I when I'm at home I'm like I eat pretty clean like and I eat the same shit all the time every day but I feel guilty whenever I've worked so long and so hard and I'm too tired to cook dinner and I order a freaking pizza then I feel guilty.
Unknown Have you ever been to Prince Street Pizza near the office here? No. You should add that to your list. Oh shit.
Unknown I'll miss my flight if I do that. Next next time. Yeah. Um all right, and then uh last thing we'll do, we'll wrap things up with uh cultural recommendation. So
Unknown Yeah. Um so well connected to Dario Pegaretti. Uh I think the cultural recommendation is new concept store. Spelled N-O-U-S. Um and it's in Paris. Um it's a lot of the guys that were working at Colette after Colette closed, they started opening stores. They now have a Paris shop. They have a shop in the Geneva Airport and in Geneva and I think they're opening a bunch more around the world and they have like just the coolest shit there. And it's like an interesting it's like can furthering what was happening with COLAT in terms of like bringing like culture, hype, cool shit, and luxury all together. And um yeah, I've been been going to that shop since it opened in Paris quite a bit and hanging out with those guys. Cool
Unknown . Yeah. Awesome. John, you have something for us? Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna recommend just a a playlist actually that you can find on Spotify. It's called the Kujitsu playlist. And there's a bit of a backstory there. So there this is uh kojutsu is like one of my favorite restaurants here in New York. It's uh vegan Japanese, basically um it's a kaiseki, it's basically like Buddhist temple food. Um but it's so good that you would not you would not ever miss the fact that there's not meat in the in the uh in the meal there. And so it's very popular with a with a composer who lives downtown, his name is Ryuchi Sakamoto, I guess. And he loved this restaurant so much, but he would go uh when he would go, he just he couldn't bear how bad the music was. So he finally kind of stomached the courage to go up to the chef and say, Look, I love this place, but let me design let me do my own playlist for you for you to play in the restaurant. And uh it's actually fantastic. So that sounds like something I would do at a restaurant. Yeah, so it's a Kujitsu playlist, that's K-A-J-I-T-S-U Yeah, we'll link that up too.
Unknown Awesome. Cool. I'm actually, you know what, I'm gonna recommend something related to Japan too, which is uh I'm gonna admit something that's gonna be embarrassing, but uh I never saw Lost in Translation uh until last week. Um it was like a major, major hole in my cultural diet. Uh and I finally watched it, and I have to say it is every bit as amazing as people told me. Um it's really weird. Like it is not paced or shot or made all around like any other film I've seen. Um it's pretty awesome. I I really was expecting to be like, Oh, you know, that's fine. Okay. I was kinda like, meh. But uh I was not at all. I really loved it. So I would say if you haven't seen it or haven't seen it in a while, go back and watch it. It's uh stands up. I never watched that again. So cool. Well, thanks so much for joining us. I know you have to run. Thank you for making the time and uh thank you guys. Yeah, we'll have to have you back next time you're uh next time you're in town. For sure, for sure. I want to come and hang out and see what you guys got going on here.
Unknown You are always, always welcome. I want to see what watch rolls I might be able to buy before I leave. We can we can do that. No problem.
Unknown This week's episode was recorded at Hodinky HQ in New York City and was produced and edited by Grayson Corjonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show, it really does make a difference. Thanks, and we'll see you next week.