Scott Schuman (The Sartorialist)¶
Published on Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:00:00 +0000
The Sartorialist himself came by to talk about, well, a bit of everything.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinky Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent interviews Scott Schumann, better known as The Sartorialist, the pioneering street style photographer who started his influential blog in 2005. The conversation explores Schumann's unlikely path to photography, having first picked up a camera in his late thirties after 9/11 when he became a stay-at-home dad. He taught himself photography by studying masters like Steve McCurry, eventually creating a unique visual language that captured not just fashion, but the design consciousness of an entire era. Schumann discusses his philosophy of shooting—preferring to react rather than construct images, maintaining editorial independence by self-funding his work, and keeping overhead low to preserve creative freedom. He shares insights about the evolution of street style photography, the impact of social media on how people dress, and his approach to building an engaged community through respectful discourse. The episode also covers his upcoming book on India, shot over multiple trips and representing a departure from typical fashion-focused work. He emphasizes the importance of context in his images, deliberately including architectural elements, street furniture, and cars that will serve as historical markers. Ben Stick takes over midway through when Stephen departs, and the conversation continues with discussions about Basel World, the watch industry, Schumann's equipment choices, and his advice about keeping a low overhead and maintaining passion over profit. Throughout, Schumann reveals himself as thoughtful about craft, generous with insights, and committed to challenging both himself and his audience while preserving the mystery and spontaneity that makes his work distinctive.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Unknown | Hey everybody, it's Steven here. Before we get into this week's episode, I've got something exciting to share. Hodinky has been nominated for a 2019 Webby Award. If you're not familiar with the Webbies, they're basically the Oscars of the Internet. And every nominee gets to contend for a people's voice award selected by you, the voting public who use, I guess, the internet. We'd ask you to head over to vote.webbyawards.com, enter Hodinky into the search box, and vote for us. We can't do this without you. Voting is open until Thursday, April 18th, and we'd appreciate all the support. And now here's Hodinky Radio with Scott Schumann. No matter what you do for a living, you can probably look back and point to a few people who made your career possible. Whether it was someone who inspired you, someone who mentored you, or someone who gave you that first big break, there are people who loom large in your own personal story, and sometimes they don't even know it. For me, Scott Schumann is without question one of those people. You might know him better as the Sartorialist, which is the blog he started back in 2005. And when I was still a student and thought I might want to try my hand at writing about clothes on the internet for a living, the sartorial list was a clear example of someone being able to use photography and their own personal passion to create something special and build a community around it. I've checked the sartorial list basically every There aren't many websites I can say that about. Scott himself is something of a mystery though, since his focus is always on other people, if you'll excuse that terrible pun. His job is something like that of an editor or a curator, but behind all of that, he's a really fascinating guy with a lot to say himself. He's also working on some really interesting stuff these days, including a book about style in India, so don't think you know the whole story already. Now, I made a scheduling mistake and midway through the conversation I actually had to leave, but Ben and Scott kept things rolling just fine and in fact had basically a whole separate 45-minute long conversation that you're gonna hear. It turned out great. We also recorded this at the Hodinki offices, and you can hear some pipes hissing and some sirens blaring at a few points. Sorry for the distraction, a real studio is coming soon, but I promise it doesn't make the conversation any less interesting. I'm your host Stephen Pulverant and this is Hodinky Radio. This week's episode is presented by A. Langenzon. This year the German Watchmaker is celebrating the 25th anniversary of the iconic Langa 1, a modern wristwatch unlike any other. Stay tuned to learn more about the Longa One later in the show and visit alongenzona.com for more welcome to the show. Thanks for coming. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. And we've also got uh we've got Ben here with us. Hello, everybody. So Scott, we we met once before in the office, you you came by and we decided to to set this up. I begged you to. Please very kindly be in your podcast. But the thing you probably don't remember, in fact I'm almost certain you don't remember. I would I would guarantee he is a good one. Is we actually met once before. Okay. Uh 2009. Uh I was studying abroad. I was a college student. Okay. Uh and went to Liberty London for your book signing. Oh. Waited four hours in line. Uh it was massive. I was like shocked when I showed up. I was like, oh shit, like other people know about this thing. Um yeah, and it was amazing. And then got to the end of the line, met you, very kind. Uh and we were wearing the same glasses. Oh really? And you made a comment about it and I was like, oh shit, I have the same glasses as this artorial. It's like ice right that I felt so cool. But uh yeah. And I was nice. Yeah, you were very nice. Okay. Nice enough. If you weren't, you would |
| Unknown | n't be here. Yeah. He's dead dead to me. I I'll tell you that. It was the one at Liberty. Yeah, it was the one at Liberty. Yeah. That one I I cringe a little bit when I think about it because it was a very uh for me a very emotional book signing. 'Cause it was the first really big book signing. Yeah. And uh and at the time I was drinking and I think I was drinking during that book sign because like it was um you know when I started the the blog, the concept was I'm just gonna go out and take pictures of people and share them and all of that. And you know, there was nobody who had done anything with the blog or kind of social media or anything, so I didn't expense. And this thing took off so fast that, you know, I certainly didn't think that within a short amount of time I would be sitting in a window of liberty and people lined up all around the block and stuff and f I don't know why because I'd I'd already done a New York book signing but there was something about the fact of being in London I guess I could feel there was because I could see people outside. People kept telling me, oh, there's people all over this place. And it really made me think about my dad. My dad would have been so proud to see this. He, I guess maybe he had died. That was 2009. So maybe he had died that year, earlier that year. So he was aware of the book. He didn't get to see the book, but he was kind of an artist himself, a writer and I think would have loved to have been more of an artist. So for some reason that night, like oh like all this emotion came through. So I'm signing the book and stuff and having a drink and I thought, oh by the end of this it probably wasn't pretty. I was like, yeah, I love you. You got great stuff. I'm signing the book and this. I just remember it being very emotional for me. And the people towards the end of line, when you started saying towards the end of the line, I was like, oh no, he's gonna say I was did something horrible or something I don't think I did anything horrible or embarrassing, but I just remembered that particular book sign just because it just, you know, that whole thing took off so quick in the beginning. And the fact that I would be like a photographer and have a book and and this you know because you're always nervous because that was only second book selling and it's in not in New York so I thought either no one's gonna show up or it's gonna be pretty good and it was pretty good. But okay that, was a good story. Thank you for not thank you. Thank myself for not have done doing anything crazy during that particul |
| Unknown | ar. bit of a lore I guess around around your story that the first time you really picked up a camera was was when you had kids, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And so you you didn't come to this as a photographer. You came to this as somebody who was who was interested in fashion who also happened to kind of find an interest in in photography, right? Yeah, I mean I like to think |
| Unknown | of it as um it's almost like a an athlete who played sports for a long time and then picks up a camera because and shoots the sport that he played. A because he loves that sport. And B maybe he brings something to it and he finds himself in the right spot because he knows the sport so well. He knows to be here, not there. I don't know if that's really how sports photography works, if you get to walk around the whole court or field or whatever. But I think that's conceptually kind of how it worked for me, you know, that I loved fashion from a very early age and I wanted to be involved with it, but I grew up in Indiana, so I didn't really know how I would be involved with it. So sales and marketing was the only thing that I I could grasp that I could do. Um and I didn't feel I felt creative, but I hadn't I I just assumed everybody in New York was going to be so much more creative and and more gifted and all of that than me. Um so I didn't try and go down a creative field. I wish I would have pushed I I have two um daughters now, one's sixteen and one's twenty. And one's a uh uh a ballet dancer studying to be a ballet dancer and the other one's in school in California. And the one thing I keep telling 'em is, dream big. I didn't dream big enough. I didn't not that I didn't have faith in myself, but I just didn't uh I look back now and think, why didn't I push my parents to let me go to school in Milan for a year? Or why didn't I try harder to go to New York? I I just didn't dream big enough. But anyway, to get back to it, yes, I I didn't pick up a camera until uh after 9-11 and we had our kids and and I I closed the showroom um because after 9-11 it was too tricky and um and I was had somehow fallen into this thing of being a stay-at-home dad. Our nanny went back to Honduras and so I was watching them and for fun until I figured out what I was gonna do, started taking pictures of my kids with the little point and shoot film camera and I really enjoyed that. It was a great express a great way for me to express my creativity. So I started shooting them more and I was with them all the time, you know, like taking them to the park and all of that. Um and you know and tell me if my stories get too long. No, no, this is great. Yeah. This is all about you, my friend. So uh actually something that that ties in with very much why I I w I was doing earlier today that you know when I started shooting, I literally would take magazines or books like this guy, Steve McCurry, this famous kind of national geographic photographer. He did a book called Portraits and I would sit there and look at his pictures and look at mine and be like what why don't they look like his? And I had nobody that was a photographer, no one that was a I the one guy that I kind of knew but he was too fancy to go through and explain a lot of that stuff. And I didn't really ask him. But I liked that process of just trying to figure out for myself, you know, really self-taught, looking at the photographs, going, okay, I can see his angle is always a little under their eye. Oh, it's shallow it' its's out of focus behind them. I didn't really know the idea of shallow depth of field. So I had to learn that. I had to learn everything myself from reading, looking at really looking at the pictures, trying to figure out the difference. And um and so Steve McCurry was a big influence. And I remember sitting in my apartment on 21st Street thinking, he's got a really cool job. He just goes walks around and takes pictures of people. And uh I thought I I didn't specifically think I would like to make that my job because I didn't think I could, but I thought that must be a pretty cool job. So I got to the point where that was my job. And over the years uh I got to know him a little bit. And so now I'm just finishing um my next book that will come out with Tashin this fall, this September. Um Shameless Plug. No, that's that's also what you're here for. Yeah. And uh shot all in India. And he uh it looks like he will be I've asked him and he said yes, that he'll write a little foreword for the books to you. Oh wow. Um so to come kind of full circle from that, from like literally teaching myself and looking at his photographs saying and I don't think my photographs really look like his, but you know, um I think they could also convey a certain um uh emotion to the photographs that he does. I think he's very good at picking out really interesting characters in a great setting. I think I'm very good at picking out characters but for a different reason. So there's some things that we really overlap on. You can really see how he influenced me, but then my take is I think really quite different than his. But the fact that he he looks at my work, he leaves comments on Instagram, that he he likes my work, you know, is a a huge um uh |
| Unknown | I'm gonna cry. I mean it's gotta it's gonna be pretty cool to like open your phone and it's like oh Steve Mc |
| Unknown | Curry liked your photo. Yes. That's a cool thing. Or when he calls, you know, if I'm walking down the street and I'm with Jenny and I'm like, oh my God, Steve Mc |
| Unknown | Gurry's calling me. That's why I do one Ben call, by the way. Yes. Right? I think it's so amazing that I mean you're you're Scott Schumann. I mean, you you you know everybody, but I it's amazing that you get most excited about Steve McCurry, not any of the the other several dozen hundred whatever famous people you must know that you must see all the time, you know? Well, you know, I I mean for for me, famous people is never meant I don't really go out of |
| Unknown | my way to shoot them. Um I mean famous people doesn't I I don't really know a lot. I don't go out of my way to do it. Like even with the books. You know, if there's a picture of, you know, Kanye, you know, we didn't tag it. If there's a picture of Armani, we didn't tag it. I don't really go out of my way for it. I'm always more excited by being surprised, by not knowing. And actually it was something we were just talking about today when we were I was meeting with my editor for the India book, and he wanted to on each page put where the photograph was taken, just the city. And I said, I like mystery. You know, in this day of social media and and people sharing everything and kind of oversharing and so much information that's one of the ways I protect myself is trying not to I mean, you know, I'm sure people would say about me, I I don't think they'd say I'm aloof, but like when I'm shooting and a lot of other people are going to shows and stuff like that and they're chatting and this and that, I'm working. So I'm talk with people and things like that, but you know, I'm constantly if if I'm in a place where you see me and it's one of those things, I'm working and I'm shooting, so I don't go out of my way to use that as my chatting time or my promotion time that it's really, you know, a shooting time. And um s and uh so like I was saying, like with the India book, I don't want to put that because I I like having mystery. You know, I like having curiosity and I know when I was teaching myself photography, you know, I would look at at pictures, you know, maybe August Sander, you know, is a famous German photographer at the beginning of the last century and you know, most of the books are in German and and all this stuff. I don't need to know the actual uh things about these p people being shot. I want to know I want to create my own story or drive myself to go find out about those. So um for me mystery is um a b bigger thing than uh famous people or getting to know famous people or anything |
| Unknown | . Yeah. I mean it's it's it's interesting like Ben brought up, you know, the photographers you're interested in are a very sort of interesting bunch of photographers, a a lot of whom are from the the first half of of the ninth of the twentieth century. Um you know, and I I saw a while ago, I saw a TED talk you did uh where you were talking about Versailles. And a photograph of of these people who to us would look very dressed up and sort of high class, but in fact are very low class and are sort of in a dive bar and they were in the equivalent of Paris of our Bowery. Yeah, yeah, right. And and so it brings up an interesting aspect of photography which is which is context and and history and and you sort of need that to to understand an image in in a traditional sort of historical way. But I wonder how do you think about this when you're shooting about maybe what these photographs are gonna mean 50 years from now, 100 years from now, when you don't have that sort of like pop culture way of understanding the way these people are are dressing and and sort of behaving. Aaron Powell Well you know I do think |
| Unknown | historically about my photographs all the time. You know, I'd I'd like to shoot for forty years. So I think that'd be a really great ch and you know by that time I'd be seventy eight. So like I think that's good a time to cut it off. But um you know, I think about it all the time what what those photographs will mean, because I look at old photographs all the time. Like I said, August Sander did a great catalog of images in Germany at the beginning of the century and you know um how he captured his I that's the thing I think I'm always drawn to are the people who've kind of captured their setting or like there's a guy Jamal Shabbaz here in New York that really captured hip-hop culture in Brooklyn and the Bronx in the early 80s and late 70s. And he was he just really captured that group in that period in such a beautiful way. And we just watched Paris's Burning. The I don't know how I didn't watch that up to this point, but we just watched that the other day and they really captured that scene. So, you know, I'd really love to um capture this epic and some of the ways that I do it and it was a very conscious decision is you know before people when they shot street style, they would kind of put them up against a wall and shoot them and it was really about the person and what they were wearing. For me that's kind of important, but I think I approach it more like almost like a costume designer. Their their clothes help tell you a little bit about who they might be. Um and so like when I was in India if there's a bunch of guys and they're all wearing like a longie and something, you know, as opposed to just kind of willy-nilly picking one, I kind of went the persona of the person and then what they're wearing. That's how I would choose that guy over that one. Um But to for the context, one thing that I I always try to do, or I'll back up a little bit. Um like I said, the in the old days or you know previously people would kind of put them up against a wall and shoot them and it was just about what they were wearing. Um but when I started shooting, I wanted to have the context of the period and I knew the way that you would get that as opposed to shooting them against the wall, putting them on the sidewalk and shooting down the sidewalk. And maybe, you know, with the wall kind of 'cause it creates with the sidewalk and with the with the um edge of the building it creates beautiful kind of vanishing points, but also subtly in the background you would have the fonts and the signs, you would have the street furniture, the benches and things like that, you would have the cars. There's a lot of little elements, design elements that put um the person in what' theyre wearing in context to the design at the rest of the time. So like even in New York right now, there are places that are in the backgrounds of shots that I did 10 years ago that aren't there anymore. Or maybe they were uh an abandoned spot and now there's a glass building there. Um you can see the cars now finally the there's I've been shooting almost 15 years, so now the the way the cars look or the taxis look different. Um, there's a shot I did going on my bike up Lafayette, shooting a girl on her bike, and that was before they had all the bike lanes. So there are little things that you're starting to really see now that I've been shooting long enough and that's how I think the context you start to see that change over time and for me it's very subtle. You know, you'll see what the design consciousness was at that time. So it's not just the person in the clothes. On the best shots you get if you kind of look around the frame, you'll you'll see some of the other design elements of the of the period. |
| Unknown | Yeah. That's really interesting. I mean you you mention capturing an epic, right? And you're you're obviously still shooting you're you're still making lots of images and and I think there's a lot more to come, but something I think you we can already say I feel comfortable saying you you captured was the epic where fashion and the internet met. Um you know you, you started the Startorial list in in 2005, it really took off in 2006. And that was really just as like blogs and e-commerce and really the idea that we could like trade ideas about clothing and and fashion online became a thing. Um and I think it's it's no surprise to kind of put Ben on the spot here too that like that's it wasn't too far after that that that Hodinky took off. And funnily enough, I I know you both had early interactions with Tyler Thorsen when he was back at GQ, um who kind of you know promoted both the Sartorialist and and Hodinky. And it's this really interesting kind of moment of of fashion and specifically menswear and and the internet all kind of coming together and making this this sort of beautiful thing. Yeah. Yeah. It was |
| Unknown | uh there was just something, you know, there were a lot of things all at play at one time. You probably felt that like uh blogs got to a point where it was you felt like anyone could do it. It was very easy. I'm not a super technical person. Um, but you know, I saw that moment. You know, there were forums before that. And the one thing I, you know, guys would get in there and talk about fashion and whatever, there was probably watch ones and things. But what I realized is that they weren't visual. And so everyone's writing about uh the lapel on the jacket or something, but you can't really see it. And um and it was one of those things where I realized, oh, you know, a blog can still be a visual thing. At that time, they weren't so super visual, you know, they were more text and you know, comedy was big on and politics and things, but there weren't very many visual things. And I think that was one of my first um realizations, like, oh, these blogs could be much more visual, and along with that, I knew that it could because it was very visual, it could also be very international. And it's one of the reasons I wrote less, because I felt like, you know, if I had a lot of writing, people that were looking at that couldn't speak English in Italy or other places might feel a little disconnected. Where if I put just a little bit of writing, the image is the image and it can speak for itself, and if they want to leave comments, they can do that. But um that was also a very conscious I don't know why I seem to understand that media so quickly. The one of the things that was happening at that time is you know, I was like I said, I was a stay-at-home dad and while I would be doing the dishes and cooking or something, I listen to a lot of and I still do um sports talk radio. Yeah. And uh and so I think I understood the concept right away of I say my thing and to have that interaction, uh you know, you kind of put it out there and then you hopefully create an atmosphere where people feel comfortable to interact and leave comments and things like that. And and that worked. Yeah. I mean |
| Unknown | , I think it's probably not dissimilar for you, right then? Yeah, m a absolutely and you know you you had your own kind of embarrassing sartorialist uh story in the beginning. I'll have my own and we we met relatively recently, but I I will say that when I had this idea of creating this this blog effectively about watches, I mean your site was really the model. Thank you and there was nobody else out there that that had taken a blog to that commercial level in a good way. In a way where like this was a real business. It was more than just kind of like a creative expression. Uh it's it's really amazing. It's also amazing that that Tyler was was involved with one of us. Shout out to uh Tyler Thorston. Yeah. In in in the first episode of Hodenky Radio, when we talked about my story, I mean I I name checked Tyler a bunch. And he you know he found me when I was still working at UBS in in New Jersey and said, Hey, like you're the first guy under the age of fifty to write about watches. Do you want to write about this for men.style.com? And I I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Mr. Thorison. Yeah. Yeah. |
| Unknown | I just had uh lunch with him the other day. I mean great guy. Absolutely. And all those guys. Dirk Standon was there at that time. Um Josh Peskowitz was there. Not at the exact time. He came a little bit later. But you know, um, yeah, I mean it was a really great moment where the you know it was funny especially at Condi Nast, you know, I think you it almost felt like the kids, you know, Tyler and Dirk, not that he's a kid, but like you kind of felt like that thing was, you know, you know, give it a try, you guys go over there and do the thing. So a lot of the top management was still kind of very old school magazine and I had to meet because you know my the one of the things I think that's always worked is that my background is all women'swear. And I shoot men's on more instinct and I shoot women's on um experience. And um the thing that helped it take off was really having a good women's. I started kind of men's, but then right away when you're out walking on the street, you know, I knew I that what a cool look for a girl would be. Yeah. Um and so I started adding that. So I did men's first, but then I was telling him, I can do women's, I can do women's. Let me meet with women w let me do's. And I had to meet with a woman there who was very kind of old school vogue. A I'm forgetting her name, but that's good because I shouldn't I shouldn't say her name anyway, but it was really one of those oh well now I'm not even gonna imitate her because people will know. But she was very nice and she said yes and okay we we'll let him do that. But um it was one of those just and I think it also helps police I think it also helps that you know I wasn't a kid. Right. You know, I think it helps that this happened to me when I was in my late 30s. I had already had a business. I knew how to do it. I knew the opportunity I had. I had no money, but I knew how I was old enough to know A, how to not kind of sell out and not do what I didn't want to do, but how to figure out how to make money um uh for things that I wanted to do and how to be able to balance that um and how to work within a system like Condi Nast and still be able to be strong enough and maintain my thing with their thing at the same time I was doing GQ. Um so that period, I mean, it was a crazy fun period, don't you think? |
| Unknown | No, absolutely. I mean, yeah, it it's it's amazing. You know, Stephen and I were chatting about you just a little bit earlier today, and it wasn't that you were at the top of the game, you were the game. I mean you were really the the guy who created the whole street style phenomenon. And are are there many of your your colleagues from from that early early era that are still around? Anybody you're still in touch with? |
| Unknown | Well I mean I'm and you know Tommy's still around but he's kind of moving a little bit more to design. But you know, he came. There wasn't anyone in the beginning. Right. You know, and and I take it, you know, as a big it's a kind of a compliment and kind of not of a a compliment that so many people looked at my work and said, oh, I can do what he does. I think now they're seeing, okay, it's a little bit trickier than you thought like I I think it's it's like a good chef. You know, you think, you look and you go, oh, that looks easy. Yeah. Until you go out and do it and you realize, oh, okay, like I'm really picky on the people that I shoot. I take you know, like Bill Cunningham, you know, is great street style photographer and all that, but I think he was he's more like Tommy. Those two are more similar in the sense that they really, really love fashion. Um and so Bill, you know, was much less about lighting and you know, getting the right stuff stuff like that. Where I think I'm a little more photographic in the sense that, you know, the lighting's really important, the mood's important. You know, once I see someone I want to kind of shoot their outfit, then it's really about trying to get a great image of them and whether I want to have a background in it or, you know, is it the whole outfit or is it just the face? Like like, you know, I think a lot of my best shots are just great portraits, you know, where you look at them and say, Okay, the drama is from here to here, you know, or it's the hair and whatever. And I think that's the thing that really separated me. I think I'm lucky that I was able to make some money, save some money, do it all for myself, so I don't have to shoot for any other editor. Um even when I was doing style.com or GQ, I pretty much had my own say, um, which gives you the freedom to not have to guess what you're shooting and have to shoot everything. I shoot what I want to shoot. And I which also means like the way you crop it, things like that. You know, what's happened I think with the internet is that the editors have become uh what's a nicer word than worse? Let's just go with worse. Yeah. um click res uh responsible for clicks and growing all of that. Yeah they just throw a lot of stuff up there and I don't think there's a I don't know if there's a lot of people from the beginning because I think it just gets boring for a lot of them. They're just supposed to shoot a lot, you know, and and then put a lot up there and see how many clicks they get and stuff and it's that they think that kills the creativity and I think it's unless people were able to shoot for themselves, I think it kind of grew old for them after a while. But there are still a lot of people around who are shooting. Um but I think it for them, a lot of them it feels like a job. I give 'em a lot of credit. They're out there all the time and they're doing their work and all of that. Um but it m that makes me work harder 'cause I think how lucky am I that I get to shoot what I want and where I want and things and and it doesn't feel like a job. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. Yeah. One one of the things that I think has has definitely changed in the the fourteen years that that you've been doing this is how people dress and how people dress for the internet. I mean I think it's it's it's crazy, it it feels sorta strange, but you know, think back to 2005,' it's its not just pre-Instagram, it's pre-iPhone. Like most people at that time are not walking around with a camera in their pocket, or at least not a very good camera. People aren't used to having their pictures taken constantly. Um and nobody's thinking about the idea when they wake up in the morning that it's it's likely that their outfit and their face will end up on the internet. Whereas now everybody's thinking about that all the time. And I mean even if it's just going on Snapchat to their you know 10 best friends. Yeah. Like people people think about that. Have you have you noticed what that what that has done to kind of like the the fashion and style landscape and does it does it majorly impact how you how you have to shoot? |
| Unknown | That's a good question. And I've got a good answer. Perfect. You know, there's a couple of elements to that. You know, the one thing I will challenge, a lot of people say that. Well, you know, now fashion shows people just get dressed up to be shot, and now they're so much more conscious on what they're wearing. Which I say that's it's maybe a little bit the opposite. You Oh interesting. Because when you started, the reason I started going to the shows in the beginning, people weren't being photographed, but if you think about it, and this is what I knew, because before I was going to the shows for myself doing the sartorialist, when I had a showroom, I had a showroom for a couple of years, I was almost all my designers were doing fashion shows. So I was going to them a lot and helping them put them on and all of that. And the difference from back then was that um at that time stylists were going to the shows and people didn't really know. They knew some of the famous stylists like Corinne Reichfeld, you know, started as more of a stylist before she was a Paris Vogue and uh Emmanuel Alt. Um, you know, a lot of these um Joe McKenna people like that, they were stylists going to the shows, and the one way that they could up their vis visibility and potentially get new jobs was looking great at the shows. So it's not that people weren't dressing to go to the shows. This you know, a lot of these stylists just weren't known to the outside world. But the experience of going to a fashion show is you had the editors in the front and you had a lot of people either top line stylist or a step below them trying to get notice. Give me a chance, hire me to style this shoot and blah blah blah. So the thing that's shifted is now stylists, a lot of them don't have a big social media audience. So now they're not getting the tickets and they're replaced by influencers and people like that that maybe, you know, just don't have as good a style as some of these people who literally it was their job to have great style. So that has kind of for me thinned the pool of who there is potentially to shoot at Fashion Week. But you know, the one thing that was uh kind of nice is that I like kind of being on the street and kind of being a little bit invisible and blending in and shooting when I want to shoot and kind of either I stop someone and shoot them specifically, you know, very full frontal, kind of in August Sander kind of way, or you know, I like to shoot in kind of you know moments in more spontaneous moments. And so when there weren't as many other people doing what I do around, I could stop them and and do more of an August Sander kind of full portrait, a little bit more thought out. But then when everyone else started coming around, the editors didn't want all that attention. They would go into the tents right away or into the show right away. Um and everyone was kind of pulling them, uh, over here a shot and there's shot. So I had to change either I could complain about it or just change the way I shoot. So uh now at the shows I'm more mobile and I don't have as many kind of posed shots, maybe there's some portraits, but my shooting style had to change which I'm okay with. It's kinda fun that the way I shoot on the street's slightly different than how I shoot at Fashion Week. And I don't uh again, a thing that's great about shooting for myself is I don't have a number I have to shoot. You know, I know a lot of these guys that are shooting, I know Phil who shoots for Vogue.com. They're not so tight on, but when he first started Vogue.com, I think they wanted a certain number of shots. Now they really trust his eye. But I think a lot of the other guys have to get us they feel the pressure of getting a certain amount of shots. If I go to four shows and I don't get any shots, that's fine. You know, because then I I trust that I put the effort in to be there and if I didn't see anything, I didn't see anything. Yeah. Um, but I also still um you know, in some cities, like we're very lucky, Maserati likes to give us a Maserati to go around from to show to show in Milan. Not a bad way to see the shows. Not a bad way, but you know, that doesn't happen every time and so like a lot of times I'm still walking from show to show or I rent a bike. I mean I probably take more different kinds of transportation in Paris. It's almost always a subway. So for me, even going to the shows is the show's one element of that day. But then I'm also because I'm I've learned those cities pretty well, I know the best route to walk from that show to that show that I might get something else. And it's the thing that people still respond are those unknown people and the in-between shows. And the I mean there was one time I was walking with with I think it was Tommy and Philler. It was Tommy and somebody else, and we were going from one show to another and the three of us were walking and there was a guy, this just really elegant old guy sitting at a outside a cafe in in Paris and and I saw him and I wasn't going to raise any awareness, not that these two guys would have shot them, because they don't usually shoot that kind of thing. But we're walking and I I know he's back there and we're getting ready to cross the street and as soon as the light changes, they start to walk, and I turn around, click, click, and get probably three good frames of him and then catch up and go and and it's a picture that will probably be in the next men's book after after the India book. I'm working on menswear book. And um you know it's it's just constantly it's not just the shows for me that it's all those in between moments in the subway or whatever. So things have changed, but in a lot of ways they haven't changed because I haven't changed the way that I shoot |
| Unknown | . That's great. I mean one of the one of the things I wanted to definitely ask you about is is is that is your process, right? Uh and you know you talk to photographers and there's some I guess contention uh about the the use of the words making photographs versus taking photographs. And I wonder where you come out on that. Do you think about making a photograph or are you taking something |
| Unknown | ? I think I'm reacting. Okay. You know, to me, like, you know, there's photographers like Tim Walker, you know, who does great, beautiful, almost cinematic images, you know, um you know, shoots for Vogue and W and a lot of these and and he dreams a photograph, you know, and sketches it out and then he has a whole team that comes and builds the set and all of that. Or someone like Paolo Reversi who, you know, also does very beautiful, most painterly like photographs, you know, very uh less less about the set, but like very beautiful light and very soft focus. Some of them are even out of focus. And um he dreams an image and then goes and does it. Where I like to go out and be surprised. I like the challenge of, you know, I could be out walking all day and at the end of the day not get anything and maybe I'm on my way back and now after like say it's summer and it's been ninety degrees and I'm hot and I'm tired um and then maybe I'm you know two blocks away from my house and bam, finally the shot, finally I've got a shot. And now quick, even though I'm tired or whatever, I've got to decide quickly. You know, do I shoot with the sun? Do I shoot the sun behind them? Do I put them in shadow? How do I approach them? You know, you approach a girl different than you approach a guy, you approach an old lady different than you approach, you know, uh uh if if I want to shoot a kid, you know, then you've got to talk to the parents first. I that's the thing that drives me. I love the challenge of like, okay, here's my chance. Now I gotta figure this thing out. You know, it's like um it's almost like a sport in the sense that like here it is. And so I don't really feel that I'm taking a photograph, but I think I'm reacting. And then what I think I've gotten better with over the years is um being very charming for about five or ten minutes and getting the person to kind of be a part of this process. I think they can tell from my natural excitement that um it's two things. It's part natural excitement, but it's also not being so excited that it uh I'm gonna be crushed if they say no. It's but also being a little cool. I know you know you have to somehow with um nonverbally communicate this idea of I would like to really take a shot of you. I think I can get a really good shot. If you're walking, you know, you I kind of w watch where they're going and see which direction, they kind of look ahead of them to see, all right, I should stop them, you know, at this spot because then I don't have to move them much. Um because then I can pretty much do it right there and I don't have to ask them to move. But maybe for whatever reason I stop them here and I say, you know, uh you're walking in this direction, the light over there is going to be really good. And I think if you're expressing that, they say they think, oh, he's gonna try and take a good picture of me. Okay, I'll give you a couple minutes. You know, why not? And but I think there's a way of doing it where they feel like if they say no, all right. Yeah, no problem. Um and so that's the thing that drives me. You know, if I had and you know, my father, like I said, was a writer, but he also did a lot of film production and things and so I used to go to the set with him when he would say, Oh, you know, I'm doing something for RCA, I'm filming this new TV thing, and I'd and he was doing this in Indiana, very kind of industrial stuff, and I'd think, wow, that sounds cool. And I'd get there on the sets and fall asleep within minutes thinking this is the boringest thing I've ever seen. He's looking at TV, probably like you guys shooting watching, he's spraying it down this and that, looking at the monitor, and now I've got to do this and that. And I'm like, wow, that is so boring. I never want to be a photographer. Never want to do any of this I mean, you find fashionable people at nice restaurants and the stores I like to go to, the bookstores. I mean, I feel a little not because I know I am working, but you know, you feel a little guilty that I get to go around on a nice beautiful day and walk around and I have to make it happen when it happens, but other than that tough day at the office. What's the worst thing that happens? I spend too much on a pair of shoes during the day. Occupational hazard similar ones right here at the Hodinky Out. I bet you guys do. You guys didn't get tagged for any of that taxes thing that I read about on Mr. Crazy Waco's uh Insta |
| Unknown | McGraw. We did not. Yeah, luckily none of us. Uh which brings us to a good point, which is that you were at Basel World last week. Yes. Yeah. So we're recording this just after we got back from Basel World. So have you ever been before? No. That was my first time Basel World. What was that |
| Unknown | like? Um although that's an Italian accent, and these were I guess well we were in the German part. We were indeed, yeah. Yes, the very German part. Uh you know, it's um you know, I've gone I go to Pity a lot, which is a trade show. I went to Milan Unica, which is a fabric trade show in Milan So I mean it's a trade show. And like when I used to have the showroom, I used to do trade shows here. So like I've been to trade shows. This one is a little more showy, you know, with these huge when they said three story spaces, I didn't think they really meant three story, but like these are hu they are incredible. Absolutely. Yeah. Um these building and even the building that they have it in, you know, is incredible. So this show is incre the the fanfare, you know, and the cinema of it is incredible. Um and you know and I I to be honest, this was the only thing that's why I was really pushing to talk about photographs right away because I don't know a lot about watches. I like them. Um but I'm a very bad guy. I'm a very bad dude. You know, I don't know much about cars. I don't know much about watches. You're much I don't know anything about fishing. You're way better off. Yeah. Yeah. I could hem a pair of pants. I help Jenny with her looks. Sure. But give me a car. People ask me, what kind of car do you have? Like if I rent a car and I have to go somewhere and sign in. And they say, what kind of car do you have? And I'm like, uh gray. |
| Unknown | Well, I'm I'm in the same boat, which is a tough one to be in in this office. I bet. |
| Unknown | Yeah. I bet. So I like I mean I like watches and all of that uh conceptually because they are beautiful and I've I've got two nice Rolex watches that were very that were gifts. Um but I don't know the one thing though that I I will say is you know like any kind of design thing w,hether it's like you see this with with sneakers and like with a company like Nike, there's a period where they'll go down a design um vein and like every single sneaker they do is great. Greater than you're like, I can never buy all of these. Wow, they are in such a great vein right now. And then they go to another area and it's like, wow, they look horrible right now. And the one thing I I'd say with Puzzle World is, you know, I know there's more pressure now, you know, but the less I think my perception is fewer guys wear watches. Now it's more about passion. It's almost like wrist jewelry for guys, and with the whole secondary market and everything, that I think everybody feels more pressure. And I'm a little surprised, you know, when I look at some of the designs coming out and I'm like, those are not good designs. Like they don't I don't know and I don't know enough about that world and who's really buying them, but like a lot of diamonds and really sparkle and bling and stuff and I think so many of the watches that a lot of guys seem to love are like they're more masculine and they're more and even the ads now, you know, you see a lot of guys with watches and they're out doing boats and this and that. Those guys aren't wearing aren't uh out on boats with those watches. Like it's I think there's a di a little disconnect that the the watch world has to figure out um what they want to be and it to me a lot of it fe |
| Unknown | els a little over designed. Yeah. I mean I I think the one thing to consider, and and we see this every year is that Basel World is truly a global fair, and half of the watches sold on this planet are sold to Chinese people. So then all of a sudden Bulgari, who I think you were with, you know, has to design something that's appealing Yeah. Uh, and to Scott Schumann. You know, and I think it's really hard to play to both of those camps equally, you know. Yeah, it's a good thing every design field |
| Unknown | , you know, Prada has that. Every company has that. And um so no, I mean again, maybe it's that mystery thing. Like I you know, there's a lot of shoe brands, guys that do, you know, small shoe brands that do a lot of hand work and bespoke and things like that. And I meet with a lot of them and they show me these shoes and I want to say whisper to them, don't show, don't show fashion editors that that shoe. Because they'll say, well, you know, this star wanted us to make this shoe with this crazy. And I'm like, that does not look good. You should not be showing that there you don't have to tell us everything. Yeah. Yeah. You know, or you can keep some things regional. Right. You know, don't show me the ugly one because it works in Cadistan or whatever. Not that Catistan doesn't have great style. But not everything has to be on so that's the what and that is the trick I think of the new media is the oversharing and the over you know I understand when sometimes people do something for a particular region, keep it there. Yeah. You know, or I don't know. It's a it's a really I find it a fascinating world and I like it, but I just think it's in um an odd vein right now that when you're looking through and I'm you know, I follow a lot of people who were there, you guys and Wei and a lot of other people who are real watch enthusiasts. Sure. And um and I'm just flipping through I'm like, wow that's ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly, and the ones that are good really stand out. Who knows? It'll be interesting to see how it goes. |
| Unknown | Aaron Powell Did you have anything you saw that like stands out in your mind as being like, I saw this thing and it was amazing? Well |
| Unknown | , the thing was that tricky is we were there the day before it started. Ah okay. And you know, a lot of those things you have to be kind of invited in and things like that. And because we were there specifically um with uh Bulgary, we didn't really feel that we could go into the Chanel thing and all of that. Fair enough. Um but I'm curious m to learn more about I mean that's why I'm very honored to be here with you guys. Like it's a world I would like to learn more about and like anything I think like with design or anything else, you have to find your in. Yeah. You know, like what's my in? How do how do I approach this this new design field, whether it's cars, whether it's um watches or whatever, like music, you know, you find your vein. Yeah. And that's so I'm still searching for my vein. Well Which sounds very drug related. That does not sound right. Not at all. You guys don't do like drops and like uh Stephen does constantly. Yeah, wait, what |
| Unknown | ? Uh one thing I want to make sure we we get to talk about is your upcoming book, all about India, which is probably not what most people are used to seeing uh in terms of your work. But can you tell us about how this project came about and what what we can kinda hope to see? Yeah. I mean um |
| Unknown | I love doing kind of the unexpected, you know, and I like challenging myself and um challenging the audience. You know, a lot of people um kind of play down to their audience, you know, or say, oh, you know, I hear a lot of guys say, well, you know, the only photographs do well for me on Instagram or photographs of me. So they end up putting a lot of photographs of them and not what I with the fascination of who I think they are, you know, their taste level and everything else. And um so I never let the amount of likes um decide what kind of things I shoot because my audience is 65% women, 35% men, so the best men's shot is never going to do as well as a reasonable woman's shot. Yeah. But I still I think I still post them and and treat them with the same level of respect and the audience with the same level of respect that they're smart enough to be able to say, you know, that's a girl's look, but I love the color there or the pattern. Like we can still when you're looking at things for design or inspiration, it doesn't matter if it's a guy or girl all the time. You know, I see things that Jenny wears and my my fiance, Jenny Walton, um at Jenny M Walton. We'll link it link it up in the notes. Great favorite. And all the time I'm totally inspired by the way she puts together things and colors and combinations. Um but so you know it's this idea of like I I like to challenge m uh myself and I like to challenge the audience. And so for a while I've been going to other places in between show times and things. And you know, I've shot in India or I've shot in China and Peru and Brazil and Japan and Moscow and almost everywhere, you know, uh South Africa, North uh Morocco, Australia, you know, almost everywhere. And if people have only started looking at the site more over the last two years, they haven't seen as much of that because a lot of uh any in between time I've been going to India and not sharing those photographs. But the reason I I did this book is that someone like Steve McCurry is a huge influence. Sure. And I always saw this artorialist being something that was really about design and style more than fashion. You know, fashion I love and it's second nature to me, so I don't really have to try to the fashion part. That works very naturally for me. What's a challenge is to go out and shoot with the same level of respect and the same strong eye, some guy in India that might not be dressed fashionably, but there's no question that he is super charismatic and anyone would look at the photograph and go, wow, that guy is just he's got something. You know. That's what I love shooting. And it I'm not saying that those clothes are necessarily fashionable, but it's a great portrait and I can do that portrait in a way nobody else can. So when I was thinking about what the next challenge would be, I'd I had done three books with Penguin and they all went very well. Um but I was looking at a place like India, I'd been there a couple of times and I was thinking about what would be the next book. And um I thought uh I've never seen a book on India that looks the way I see India because when I've gone, I've gone to fashion weeks and music festivals, but I've also gone to very simple places and there's a diversity there of the life that you don't see I haven't seen in any other book that really captures that variety. And so I thought that's a great end for me. That's something I could do unlike anyone else. So I financed it myself. I wanted to see first if I could really do that. So I probably shot seventy-five percent of the book before I even started sh um um showing it to publishers. Oh wow. Yeah. And I mean it was under my own finance and and it just Jenny and I did everything. We had to find the guides, we had to decide where to go and how to get into it. But you know, I mean that's another thing where I feel like it's a really guilty pleasure. My life right now is getting to go to India and learn all this stuff and and put myself in these fantastic, really crazy different experiences. You know, like a year ago at this time, literally a year ago at this time, I had just done all of um women's fashion week. I was supposed to come back to New York, um have a week off to get prepared to go to India, but then a job came up in Paris, so I stayed there. I sent Jenny back with my winter clothes, I bought summer clothes uh at Uniqlo and at some sportswear places, some sporting goods stores, and went straight to India. So I went in one week from staying at the peninsula in Paris, but very nice hotel, to a hotel in Odisha, which is like the middle part of India to the east, that is just a very simple place. There is no big city around there or anything, staying in very, very simple hotels where you have to ask for toilet paper and you have to ask for a towel. So not the peninsula. Not the peninsula. But you know, I was prepared for that, you know, and it it and I had an equal amount of fun in both situations. I loved being in Paris and shooting that and having that lifestyle. then And a week later, being in this place where it's just I almost decided I it'd be easier because I hadn't planned on the guys in the other rooms smoking, which kind of messed up my asthma. So I thought maybe next time I'd sleep in the car. But I mean how fun. I just felt like that was one of the few times where I thought, wow, I'm really lucky to get to live such a different kind of life, you know, and have that in one thing, and to work on this book, and to I think surprise people everyone I've shown has been really like, well, it looks like you, but like a new version of you, like an updated kind of version. Um and then you know when I started shopping it around, the re reception was very good. But anyway, so that was kind of the concept was to show India in a way that I had never seen in a book before, to challenge myself and um challenge my photography, you know, to see if I could really do this. And and it works so far |
| Unknown | . Awesome. Well, due to a terrible scheduling decision on my part, uh I actually have to bail, but I'm gonna leave you with Ben. Oh right. Uh Ben's gonna finish things up, do our hodinky questionnaire. Okay. Get a little uh cultural recommendation from you and uh take us home. That alright then? My pleasure. All right. I'll uh I'll see you gentlemen later. Thanks again for joining us. Thank you. Thank you very much. And now we'll look at this week's sponsor. Twenty-five years after its debut, the Langa 1 is still the first watch that comes to mind when people think about a Longazona. With its asymmetric dial layout and outsized date complication, the piece is instantly recognizable and has remained virtually unchanged since its initial release in 1994. There now exists an entire family of Longa 1 models, including the Longa One Moonphase with its unique day-night indication, or the astonishing Longa 1 Turbion Perpetual Calendar. To celebrate the Langa One's 25th anniversary, the brand is launching a collection of special editions, presenting one new piece per month. The celebratory watches mirror familiar Longa One models with white gold cases, two tone dials made of solid silver, blue numerals and hands, and balance cocks with a special blue-filled 25th anniversary ingrape. You can read about the first few releases, the Longa One, the Grand Longa One Moon Phase, and the Little Longa One, right now on Hodinki, but you'll have to stay tuned through October to get to know all of the celebratory releases. To learn more about Along and Zona and the Langa One, visit alongandzona.com. Alright, let's get back to the show |
| Unknown | . Should we do it? Are we recording? Yes. So you're recording the whole thing, right? But I want to hear a little bit about can I ask you a question? Of course. Yeah. I did. So I I should say for for readers at home, we we are now Stephen Less. Stephen had to go to had to go to a swimming lesson I Exactly. Just kidding, everybody, Steven is off to a very, very chic uh event. He's going to the premiere of Veep, the final season of Veep, as a guest of uh no less than Frank Rich, I believe. So very, very important man for sure. Uh so we are still here with with Scott Schumann. And I think Scott has a question for me. I think |
| Unknown | . Yeah. Well, I didn't think of it ahead of time. I didn't realize we were already back on the air. Thanks for telling me before we started. But I mean, what's been your crazy ride? I mean you must have had a crazy ride with all of this too. Like w going from a magazine going 'cause it was a blog first and then you went print. And how is Instagram like how do you manage all these different |
| Unknown | media? It's uh it's a lot. It's it's it's I mean you know the the the one say where I'd say the where where our path, yours and mine kind of diverted is that you know you kind of kept it really pure and and you know the sartorialist is still very much what what it was back then. I r I really respect that. I I kind of sold out in in some ways in in a lovingly way, you know, I say that about myself. Uh you know, we we started doing e-commerce in 2012, uh just accessories, like straps basically. And that was literally me and then me and Steven, you know, kind of shipping these things out from my apartment in the West Village. And then you know in 2014 or so, I had the opportunity to sell the company to a big media group, which we've discussed. And uh and at the same time, I had become friends with these big Silicon Valley guys that were just watch guys. Like they just like watches. I like what we were were doing. We even back then the only guys around really. And they said, Oh, like don't sell the company. Like let let's do this together. And and so those guys, you know, invested a little bit of money and then we started hiring folks, et cetera. And now we're full e commerce. You know, we it's it's hu |
| Unknown | ge Because you still I f I think a sellout is someone who you can feel doesn't have the passion and they're still doing it. With you guys, I feel like it's |
| Unknown | still a passion and you're giving them what they want. It is. And the the one thing you should know about me is I'm I'm I'm pretty self deprecating. You know, I I I think that uh I I don't consider myself a cell in any way. Yeah, I think I don't think so. If you if you saw me last week in Basel we just missed each other, like I get really excited about Basel. Like I love I mean that's like it's a z it's a Super Bowl for us, you know? Yeah. And we are are doing things the way that I think they should be done. And I think if you look at our industry, which is even more conservative than than yours in the fashion world, these guys are so behind the times and the experience is so shitty for consumers. And the product itself is so kind of stagnant that they they I felt that the industry needed somebody to kind of just like gently kind of prod them and push them forward. Uh and that's what we're doing. You know, so you know, after after 10 years or I should say eight years of buying watches as a consumer, I just thought back of all those terrible experiences that I had as a consumer said, like, let's fix those. Now we have the money, the resources, the the the everything to go ahead and be a retailer and make things better. So we did that. And you know, and and on the media side of course, you know, I didn't know anything about watches. I didn't what a publicist was, I didn't know what, you know, marketing was, I didn't know anything. I just knew what I liked. And so I started writing about them, taking pictures, putting them up on online, and that's it. And I think, you know, you're from Indiana, I'm from Rochester, New York, which is basically Indiana. You know? Yeah. It's it's really. Yeah. Um you know it it's one of those things like this is not a world I grew up in at all. You know, I mean we have a mutual friend in in Wei and Wei really grew up in this world. You know, Wei Wei is a part of this community. His father was a was an ambassador uh for Rolex as as he was growing up. Oh, I didn't realize that. Way's father was the ambassador to Singapore, but like he would he was he received a grant from Rolex when Way was ten, you know? So he really grew up in this world. And I really admire that. And that's but that is how he he that's how he views the world. I view this world as somebody that is not from it and says, holy shit, like this is a crazy thing. But because of that, it gives me the kind of wherewithal to say, like, nobody needs this stuff at all. So if it's not fun, then people gonna people are gonna stop. People are gonna leave, you know? And so everything we do is is about bringing more people into this world that can be really rewarding and really enjoyable from an intellectual level, potentially a financial level if you do it the right way. Uh and we want people to have fun, you know, because again, there are no doctors prescribing people to buy watches.. Okay So I'm going to |
| Unknown | um give you the permission to stop selling is to stop saying that you sold out. And instead of using the phrase sold out, I want you for now on to start saying I doubled down. I was on the edge of doing this and I was really enjoying this and instead of like kind of going on and doing this thing I doubled down. I got investors, I started giving the audience what they want, blah blah blah. That's it that's what you did. You doubled down. You didn't sell out. You doubled down, you gave 'em what they wanted. You created a community of people who were passionate about it. I mean that's the one thing. I don't know as much about that world, but you I always respect people who are able to build a community of people who are really passionate. I mean it's one of the things I like to photograph, you know, is um communities where people are really sincere and passionate and really love what they're talking about. Like, you know, you know, if you want to get somebody worked up, you just say say like, oh hey, I think this cog in my watch thing is you've got a cog one. Let me tell you, that's the femur. I love watching people get passionate about the thing that they're passionate about. I wish and the thing I always feel bad about is people who don't have a passion. You know, there are people who who don't have that thing. I don't care what passion people have, but like I always feel I love watching people talk about and get excited about I might not understand what they're saying. And that to me was Basel World was a lot of people getting around, you know, uh talking almost like talking soccer. Right. No idea what they're talking about, but it's fun to watch guys who can tell that they |
| Unknown | care. Yeah. Really care about it and love it. Yeah. And I I think what what we've been able to do is, you know, again, I I was just a you know a a normal guy from upstate New York. Both my parents were teach I think we provide a home for a lot of people that that are that are really similar to me. I was a good athlete, I wasn't athlete. I was just just a guy, you know, middle class upbringing, just a white guy, you know, nothing nothing special there. Look, it you know, I I still could very easily be working for UBS, the big bank. Very easily, you know, that my my life is is one decision away from still being there, you know. And I think when you think of it that way, it's like you know, I'm basically creating a home or we've created a home for all those guys that didn't take that chance and didn't leave and go off and start a website about you know X, Y, and Z. So I I'm extremely proud of what we built, honestly. And you know, it's just been the the the most difficult thing over the past few years has has been the people, frankly. You know, that there's been so many people that have been so instrumental in in our growth. Steven, who you obviously know he was just here, Will, who's one of our earliest employees, still around, Jack. There there's a whole bunch of folks, but then there are other people that that that were really in some ways detrimental. And I think you know, really managing, you know, really uh just having expectations for people uh is really difficult and saying like hey i'm i'm giving you not only my my financial future which is in this company but also this is my life you know just like like your project is your life uh and i i think sometimes people forget that that, like, you know, this is really important to not only me, but several of the people at at this company. Yeah. So you know people are you were |
| Unknown | gonna ask me questions just to kind of dovetail into that right now. Yes. Um I know we're gonna do some questions and and I got a little preview, and one of them was what was some of the best advice you had ever gotten? Yes. And I don't remember if he didn't say it in like a super grand way, but I remember my dad had his own business like I mentioned before and he was kind of a production company. He was he I think he thought of himself as a writer, but he could he was just very smart. You know, he went to grew up in North Dakota, right? So one again, one step above Rochester. But North Dakota and you know he just taught himself everything, you know, and and he would all all the time say, well, you know, I'm too dumb to know I don't know that, or that I can't do that. And that was one piece of advice, not the one I'm getting to, but like this idea that like don't get into your head so much that you can't just figure out how to go do it and do it. Um but one thing that he really impressed on me is you know, don't go get a bunch of employees. Right. Do as much as you can yourself because once you start getting a bunch of employees, then it's their life that you have to worry about. And they start and very early, you know, I had thought about doing an e-commerce site and doing more of a of a news fashion news site, you know, having it more like a style.com or something like that. And I actually worked quite a bit on it, hired two people and got almost to like three days away from launch and then realized I don't want that to be my life. Right. I I don't want you know I love and that's a and that's a real soul searching moment when you decide I'm not good I I'm sure I could make money I'm sure I could do this stuff. But what I love about my life is being able to pick up the camera, go walk outside, nobody's calling me. No one's giving me crap. I don't have to answer to anyone and no one's looking to me for answers. You know, I live that life of having a showroom or working with designers and I mean there's been times when I thought, oh, it'd be fun to do like a more long-term collaboration with someone designing a collection or something and I've had a lot of offers to do that. But I think when I'm out walking around on 9th street, I don't want someone calling me up about buttons. Right. Um you know, or a late shipment in this. I've done that world and it's fun, but it's not that fun. And I and the one thing you realize, you know, you have to decide, am I an artist? How mu how important is money? Like I've been able to make enough money to have a nice life, but you know, I'm not taking helicopters anywhere and um but at the same time I don't have to do anything that I don't want to do or I can decide to do this India book and and do it the way I want to do it. But at the same time also decide uh what am I gonna do with you know five million more dollars? Like I don't need that. I I don't need to buy uh a car. I'm not dying to buy a car, I'm not dying to buy this thing or that thing. What I'm dying to do is keep walking around on the streets and keep shooting and making a catalog of images that I'm going to be really proud of. And a big way of doing that was not bringing people in. Yeah. And and the things that go with it. All this dist |
| Unknown | raction, everything that goes with it. times you know in in my current life, again, which I'm very proud of, that I'm just like, fuck man, like I just want to be on my own. I just want to go go back to the days when it's just me, nobody to answer to it. Yeah, it grays out. But sorry, we can handle it from here. But I I think you know it's it's one of those things where you you just have to make the decision for yourself. And I made the decision to raise a little bit of capital. And again, I have no regrets about it. And hopefully, someday I'll be able to go back and kind of do what I want to do, whatever that is. But I think you know, your notion of like believing, you know, like I always fancied myself a writer, I fancied myself a photographer, I fancied myself an entrepreneur. I didn't know I was any of those things until I started this. And I think, you know, the the fact that like you didn't how old? Thirty two, thirty three, something like that. That is wild considering you know how many how many young young photographers we have around today. Right? I mean what's the average age of a street style photographer now? Twenty-five? Young |
| Unknown | er probably. Yeah. But I mean I didn't even I think the reason it worked for me is that I loved photography and I loved it as a subject. So I you know, even before I picked up the camera, I knew who Avidon was and Penn and Weber and all these guys. Um but because I didn't study it and I didn't um try to emulate anyone too much, I was able to create my own look. You know, like uh I couldn't do that in fashion design because I was too heavily influenced by Armani or too you when I was younger and um so I knew I could not design my own thing because I would just be too influenced. And picking up a camera and do uh I I knew I had my very specific thing I wanted to try and achieve and I think the reason I felt good about it is I knew it didn't look like anyone else and I was proud of that. And um but also you know at that time it was like I was say we said earlier it was a golden moment because there were no expectations. Right. It didn't cost any money. No one you know and that's another reason why it was the sartorialist and not my name. Because if it went horribly, I could be like, yeah, that sartorialist thing sucked. Glad I didn't get involved with that. Um and it took me probably three or four years of doing it and actually working for GQ and the other before I would tell anyone I was a photographer because I didn't want to be good or just passed. I wanted to be really good. Right. And and that's maybe the one thing that again kind of separates me from some of the other ones. I think they want to be good and they like the lifestyle and they like whatever or they've kind of fallen into it as a job where for me it's a a super passion, you know, and and I want to do something I'm proud of and you know, I never say I'm the best photographer 'cause I'm not, but I think um I'm at least just creating a unique vision that looks like me. I all I ever wanted to do was create photographs that look like me. That people say that's a Scott Schumann photograph. Um because of these different elements. You know, there's a stylistic element, there's a interesting light, the person he chose to shoot was interesting. The best are that way. And um and the way that you do that, I think the advice that my father gave me to go back to that, maybe the way he phrased it was keep a low overhead. Whatever you do in business, yes, keep a low overhead. And a lot of that is having very few employees. Yeah. We work from the apartment. Um the things I think happens with a lot of young kind of influencers or bloggers |
| Unknown | You are currently talking to a man who has three floors in this building, by the way. Right. So you're pre you're preaching to the to the I don't even know what. A guy who made a big, big mistake. Just kidding. No, you doubled down. You doubled down. Until you start saying it, you gotta start saying it. I doubled down. I believed in myself. I'm gonna ask some really basic questions that we didn't cover with Steven. Okay. Uh first of all, the name, Sartori the Sartori List. How'd you come up with it? W |
| Unknown | ell, I always wanted to be a superhero and I thought my super power could be mockery. Really? You're gonna wear that? No. Okay. That was not it. But it sounds good, right? It does. Um no, uh you're gonna wear that? I should have said it that way. That's a crime. Ah shit, that's what I should have said. My superpower is stopping people that are getting ready to make a fashion crime. That jacket, that's the crime. Anyway, um don't put any of that in. Okay. And to me, the idea, you know, the the word sartorial is this concept of having something bespoke and something well made is sartorial for me. And so I thought that a sartorialist would be somebody who did something very well. But the the thing that broke the mold a little bit was that for me it it had to be someone who was able to do a look very well, but it didn't have to be a tailored look. Right. You know, they just had to do their look, whatever that look was. It could be skateboard, it could be vintage, it could be goth, whatever. Um and so for me it was conceptual. You know, the sartorialist was someone that had a look and they did it very well. But in the beginning, you know, people we were pretty upset because they would hear that it was a street style sight. And there so they would go looking for kids wearing t-shirts and skateboards and they'd say, that guy's wearing a suit and tie. He's not street style. Right. Well, yeah, he is. He's on the street like everybody else. Um or they would see the word sartorial, they knew what it was and expect everybody to be wearing a suit and tie and you know, half the photographs were women. So in the beginning, you know, I had to stick to my guns and I knew I was on the right path or I didn't really care if I was on the right path. This was the path I wanted to go on. Yeah. Um and I I guess I've just always as opposed to thinking down and to the custom to the to the reader and the audience, I always expected the best from them and always expected to challenge them and that they would be up to the challenge. And that, you know, I wasn't going to run a wild west site where they could say anything. Um and so people learned that very quickly, you know, in when it was the blog initially. We could check the comments and only put through the ones that we thought were reasonable. They didn't agree with me or agree with what the person wore. Sure. But they had to say it respectfully. Right. And I'm shocked how many people to this day still don't do that, don't run their sites that way. And especially now in this call out culture where people get their and their audience to call people out and really bring people down and all that. It's it's just not what I do. You can disagree, but you have to do it respectfully. Yeah. And so I think that's why the community was built um so strongly where people felt like they could be on the site and talk about it, but they weren't gonna get killed. |
| Unknown | Um Our dog has been on the doggist. No kidding. Oh, that's great. Charlie. So uh Elias is his name, and he has a a wonderful business. Yeah. Taking pictures of dogs. But I mean without getting the catorialists. |
| Unknown | We ran into that a lot. And just so many of them. I can't even remember them all now. And there was a whole college subset of like I don't know how they did it. There was something like the college sartorialist or some version of the world and now people are playing with dots and all of this and you know it used to upset me a bit but not that much because I felt like it just it just feeds a fire under me. I've just got to keep going. I can't worry about them. They don't have you know you again you hear it with like sports and sports talk radio. They could be more talented, they could be a better they won't be able to outwork me and outthink me. Right. That's why I do the India thing or here or when everybody else is going that direction, I go that direction. And and I just believe in the audience that they're going to appreciate that. And I think the audience does respect that. Or if they don't and they decide, I only want fashion from you, I don't want the India stuff, well then it's up to me to find an audience that wants that, that it is willing to accept that kind of combination. You know, like when Instagram came around, um you know, and the phones got really good. I could shoot more in the moment, interiors and things like that. So interiors became a lot bigger thing. Um so again, if the people only wanted that one thing from me, then I had to work harder to um make up for the audience I lost for that but rebuild it with people that liked interiors or liked um landscapes or whatever. So it's always been an evolution. Yeah. And if you lose some people, then I just have to work harder to bring in new ones |
| Unknown | . A few more questions for you. Just while I have you. If you're gonna get one suit made, where do you have it made? Well I've got a lot of friends. Are you crazy? I ain't answering that. You have it made in Italy. Boom, there you go. What a made in Italy. Who's the guy in New York? Because I need a suit. So does he for them for that matter? |
| Unknown | Ah the guy in New York. Well, you know, Mark Cho has a great place here, the armory. Yep. And Drake's, you know, like that could be a very good place. Like it's hard to beat um Ralph. You know, Ralph Lauren does a great job. Um, you know, there are some good small tailors. Um, you know, it really kind of depends on on what you're into. I think the thing that's really hard, and it's something I'll talk about in the men's book, is um it's almost like finding a hairstylist. You know, someone can make a beautiful suit that is made great. Like, okay, I'll tell you a little story. I'm not gonna mention what brand did it, but someone made a suit for me. They offered to make me a suit and I went and told them exactly what I wanted. I had pictures and all this stuff. And they made the suit they wanted to make for me. Got it. And I put it on and I thought, oh my God, I look like a uh an ambassador, like a seventy year old ambassador, which was not the look I was going for. And the unfortunate part is if it's made really well, it's like herpes, you know, you can never get rid of that beautifully made suit. You feel horrible throwing it away, but it's just not for you. Um so picking who you're going to do that that kind of understands conceptually what you want um and a lot of that comes from looking at how the guy's dressed. You know, you you know, like if you've got a barber and he just cannot understand a particular style, you're just gonna be knocking your head against the wall trying to get them to do that. So I think there's a lot and now with the internet, almost all these tailors have Instagram sites and all of that. So like my advice would be find someone who kind of A is into it and dresses, you know, because it really shows they still have a passion for it. And and can you see them dressing kind of like that? Because if you change it too much, they're not going to be able to do it. It's gonna be too hard. So and you know now so many of these tailoring guys uh uh tailors um travel you know they do all the tour and everything so even if it's a guy based in France, you know, like Cippinelli comes here. Uh you know, there's all kind of people that come here all around the the US. So there's really you can almost get anybody. Who's the best dress guy you know? The best dressed guy I know. Uh I don't know. I mean that's a really hard way because you know it's like children. I love them all for all their different kind of looks and everything they do. I would say Pierpal, maybe from Valentino. He always looks great. You know, I really respect someone like Armani. You know, I mean he's what, 80? And I mean right up until like seventy-five, seventy, he looked like a million bucks, but he dressed very simply. Um a guy that a lot of people know, um, George Cortina, you know, he's become I I was shooting him before anybody else and I mean he's big now on the internet and all of that. But like again, he's a guy like Armani. He works out, he's got a great body, he dresses that body well, everything fits beautifully. And one of the things I wrote in the I think the second or third book, I put a I did a little chapter on him and said, you know, he is one of the consistently best dressed guys, but look at what he's really wearing. It's not a lot of fashion, it's not a lot of different color. It fit, fit, fit, fit, fit. And it fit, it looks sexy. It's not too tight. It's not too big. Like that's really the key. And if you look at, you know, historically, someone like Cary Grant., fit And he didn't go too deep into fashion, you know, like you look at Kery Grant from the 30s all the way to the 70s. He still always kind of looks like Kery Grant, and it's because of fit. Um uh Fred Esther, you know, fit. And he had to dance, like he had to do all that stuff. So things had to fit great and look great while he was moving. Plus, he had a great eye, you know, so you can look at a still and say, wow, that's a great stripe with a dotted tie and it's in So I don't really I think the way I if I was using the sartorialist, the way I use it, the way I shoot it, and the way I think people use it is not looking for like the perfect answer. It's taking a little bit from this, taking a little bit from that, you know, taking um in the third book. We did this kind of design challenge where we took a Prada runway picture, we turned it upside down on purpose, and I said, you know, uh, I challenge you to stop complaining about runway shows, how much the how much the clothes cost, they're too fancy, they don't live that's not my lifestyle, whatever. Just look at what the free um inspiration they're giving you in terms of color combinations, pattern mixing, genre mixing. You can look at women's collections, turn the picture upside down, and just look at the free stuff. That's what I do. You know, and and I think any smart person will do that. They can go to a furniture store and see a chair with a wallpaper and something else and go, uh, that's I'm gonna do that with my next suit. That color combination or that pattern mixing or like the India book, you see guys wearing three different plaids and that are um porters in Mumbai. Um maybe they're some of the best dressed guys. You know, because they wear these three plaids and it's not thought out, but it's the unthoughtness of it that you look at and you go, Oh my god, they just look so cool. Three plaids sounds pretty great right now. Right? It really does. And and you know, they're all in super shape because they're just lifting stuff all day and they're in great shape and they're walking around this and they're pretty well |
| Unknown | dressed. Uh another question, just because we've got a lot of really nerdy technical guys. Okay. What is your kit? What do you shoot with? |
| Unknown | I shoot mainly with a Canon 5D with a 50 lens for the most part because it's lighter and it's uh more open. Yeah, like and it's like how the ICs. Um I just saw the other day I was at uh photocare, where I get to get a lot by a lot of my stuff. And there's a new 85 that Canon's doing that's not nearly as heavy as the old 85. So I love the 85. Um but you know, not I don't want to say real street photographer, but if you're a you know, a real street photographer and you don't know what you're gonna shoot every day, then a thirty five is too wide and it kinda gets weird at the edges. Um an eighty five or eighty is too narrow and heavy, then it's good for like portraits with chest up, waist up, something like that. But if you gotta get, you know, if you want to shoot someone full body, you almost have to cross the street to get back far enough. So I find the 50 is pretty good. But um if I'm doing a book like India, when we're in the car, maybe I'm sitting usually in the front seat in the passenger seat, and I'll have three or four cameras below me, a 50, one ready with a 50, one with a 85, one with a one twenty, maybe and something else, a 35 maybe. Or no, I think I have a zoom that's like a 70, 25, something. So all those at my feet, and I'll grab the one. If I see something, I'll grab one and then the guy knows the my my guide knows to grab the other ones or maybe he's sitting with one or two um but the 50 is usually the go-to um but like in if I'm shooting something that's not just out on the street shooting on a typical day if I'm shooting a project like India and I'm in a lot of different scenarios and I have a guide that can carry stuff, then I've just got a nice variety of stuff so I can handle the situation the way I need to |
| Unknown | . And do you work with Canon professionally or like this one |
| Unknown | ? No, if you know somebody, it would be really nice. Something tells me you could probably get that done. Everybody says that. Nothing happens. Screw canon. No, sorry. Nikon. Yeah. I'm open. He's available. I'm available. You know, like uh every other big brand. Yeah. Screw Canon. Um But you know, I don't care. You know, it's the if I get enough fun, nice collaborate collaborations and perks and stuff from other people. Yeah. I'm not gonna uh worry about that. Yeah. Yeah |
| Unknown | . Okay. What were the the questions for the questionnaire? Well now I can throw it back in space and make a wash recommendation. Oh yeah. Okay. |
| Unknown | Okay. Could you could you give me a recommendation for a watch that like I like you know the Rolex and it's uh silver. It looks masculine. Oh no, you know what? Actually and I take that back. Because I've got a watch like that. You know what I need? I need a watch with a leather band, a brown leather band something that's a little thinner um because like the one watch I saw that I I truly do think is fantastic is that um watch that Bulgari did um that's thinner the octopus Specifically because you know I like to have and and everything I write in my post is absolutely true. But this is I like that. I can talk about that and this is how I'm going to talk about it. I tell them what my point of view is and they agree or disagree, whatever. Um but like the thing I really liked is what I posted is like I like a tight sleeve because I think it makes your wrist look sexy. Sexy, right? That's a sexy wrist. So then you've got thank you. Well it's partly sleeve. Um that's what's fooling you. It looks so it's skinny because of the sleeve. Um but I like that I can fit that watch under there, you know, and also I don't like the guys that go around with the big one. Oh, look at my I like being able to like pull it back and kind of see it it's not so in your face. So what would be a leather strap version of something like |
| Unknown | that? Sure. So you could put a leather strap on one of those Octofenic. modes But it it's a larger diameter. It's a little it's it's a little bit wider. Uh those watches really are wonderful. I mean those were some of the hits of the show for us for sure. You know the the the Kings of Ultra Thin is Piaget. Obviously a great jewelry maker but they're really well known for the ultra the ultra slim dress watches, Patek Philippe, Vashron Constantin, Langa. Uh I mean I for you for you, you know, a man of extraordinary taste, I think vintage Patek Philippe uh sounds really nice. You know, nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, mid-century, maybe in white gold or steel. You know, so so non colored gold. Um would be those rectangular? They they can be. Uh I like the idea of a rectangular. I don't have anything rectangular. Yeah, I mean they're they're they're and what's funny is the the the shaped watch is something that's not round. Uh are actually f considerably less expensive than round watches. Because everybody wants round. It's it's easy, it's obvious, you know. Um but yeah, a nice square or rectangular like Patek Philippe in platinum or steel or something could be could be really nice. |
| Unknown | Is there a thing in the watch community about like cause like when you buy glasses, they say, oh, you know, you gotta look at the shape of your face and this kind of thing, blah blah blah blah. Um which I am disputing in my book. I'll give you a little preview. People always talk about the glasses shape with your face. What they totally forget, and I shot something with uh for two years with um with uh who owns Ray-Ban? Oh the Italian Lexotica. I shot something with Lexotica for two years, optical glasses, and the thing that I realized is hair this this th what kind of hair you wear totally changes the shape of your face. So if you've got long hair and it's hanging down here but you have a round face, you don't have a round face anym So what does that kind of hair do to him? It's a lot of hair. Yeah. But I mean it doesn't ch it's not like so down in his face. Like women have their hair down or they have it really back or whatever. Just the issue like hair kinda changes some of your concepts. Sure. Is there a thing in like wrist shape and like the arm shape and for that that people say, well, you know, you have really thick forearms, so like you want this kind of watch or your hands are meaty so you want like a meatier kind of watch is there a thing like that or something |
| Unknown | . There's no rule I would say. But I I will say so a pet peeve I have is people that wear their watches too tight too tight. And then it becomes like you get this kind of like sausagey kind of effect. You know where really like the the skin is kind of bulging uh you know uh on either side. But there's there's no hard and fast rule about about what a man or woman should wear. I mean watches are as we've said a few times now, like these are completely frivolous. Like if wh whatever you like, go for it. You know, and I I think that that's what's so kind of silly about our comment section is people are saying you know, acting as if things are objectively bad. Yeah. Which they're just not they're just not. Like it tells you the time, and that's about it, you know. Uh but yeah, there th's really no hard and fast rule on on something like that. But yeah, I I could see you in a mid-century protect filipe or bash run something interesting. Yeah. I think that'd be right. I just shot some of |
| Unknown | Piaget for their catalog recently. That might be kind of interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I'll look into it. Maybe send me some uh I mean not that you're not a busy guy. No, no, no. I got to be here, I'll start you do it. So maybe one of your minions could send me a recommendation. Okay, great. Great. |
| Unknown | Um any other questions? Okay. Hodinky questionnaire. Scott Schumann, the sartorialist. Question number one. What is a wash that has caught your eye recently? Well, you know, I'm glad you asked that. I |
| Unknown | just found myself at Basle World and uh with all in all seriousness, I really did like that bulgory um octofinissimo because it fits it I think it would fit under the sleeve of my it does fit under the sleeve of my shirt um and they have so many styles you, know, we were kind of in and out of there quickly. I I would like to go in and look more quickly at all the variations. So they gave me one um for the show which I like, but I think I w I wanna go back and see all the different other variations and make a more uh informed decision No, no, really. Really? And I like that one, but they kind of picked it out for me. Sure. But they don't know my wardrobe and how crazy I am and all that. So and we didn't have time 'cause we were only there for one day. And I was like, Oh wow, there's a lot of these like the whole thing. So I would like to go back in and really look at 'em and decide, okay, that's the one I think that because they can't possibly know my wardrobe, but I know like maybe that one would be the best with all the different things that I have. |
| Unknown | Oh, I just remembered another question that is not part of the Hoodinky questionnaire. So you're obviously a well-known person and people know who you are. What is the craziest thing somebody has done to convince you to photograph them? I don't think anybody really does it |
| Unknown | for two reasons. One, I wear glasses, but I don't always wear them all of the time, especially when I'm shooting and if I'm feeling self-conscious, which means that my sight's a little blurry. And so I'm very good at just not noticing people. I can feel that they're around doing stuff. Yeah. But I just posing and trying to look awesome. Yeah, but you know, kind of sitting kinda funny in a particular way or something. Like so I'm very good at just acting like I don't notice it and you know, I don't feel that bad uh about doing that. And if anything, some every once in a while somebody does it that I think, oh I would shoot them, but they're going at it so crazy, they're being so over the top, I am going to feel dumb going over them now, going like, hey, can I shoot you it would feel make me feel too self-conscious. The other part of that um I guess because I'm a grown man uh and and I don't always wear my glasses or when I am wearing my glasses, I'm kind of squinting. I don't think people look think I look very approachable. Interesting. Now when I go to approach them, I'm very nice and I've got a smile on this. But like a lot of times when I'm walking around, I am working and I'm looking and I'm I'm making decisions and you know if I'm walking, even if it looks like I'm doing nothing, I'm probably scanning and deciding, oh, that person looks interesting. Okay, I'm gonna follow them. Where would I stop them? That's constantly going on all day. I'm trying to think about where my camera settings, so if I do, I can quickly so I've got to be overexposed, unders blah blah blah. So usually I'm walking around like this most of the time and I think it makes me look not very um approachable. Do you shoot on full manual all the time? No I shoot on aperture. Aperture priority priority. And then I just take it from there. I don't like manual very much because it's it slows the process. And I don't usually shoot things moving too fast. So if I again it's one of those where you kind of see what you think you're gonna shoot or I think I've gotten very good at seeing a uh something start to develop. Sure. And then I can make um decisions like whoop, I gotta switch to that really quick or whatever. Um but for the most part it's aperture because I like that really shallow depth of field. Because I think it helps pull out the element I want to be most obvious in the photograph. Whatever that is, the shoes are like if it's shoes I think are really important. I try and get the person to sit down so there's less the space people are looking at is smaller, you know, and there's more focus on the shoes or whatever. What is the coolest place that you've traveled in the past year? Aaron Powell Well it would have to be India, just because we went to so many I went to so many different places. Um you know, from uh Mumbai and Delhi and Rajasthan to you know Orisa or Ordesha um Chennai We'd use those cities as the base and then we'd spend a day or two just in the car going out and staying in a overnight in a hotel close to a small village or whatever. And um so it would have to be India just because I was working on that book so much and it was just such you know, uh an incredible variety of things. You know, f for example, I I stopped a guy in a in a um flower market way on the on the outer edge of Kolkata, which Kolkata is kind of like their Detroit or Naples, you know, a a once opulent city that is in you know really hit hard times. Um they don't have much of a youth culture, you know, they don't have much they have a lot of culture, but not much youth culture. So there is no place where you go see the young kids hanging out and whatever. Um and so we're out in this fl uh flower market and I stop this kid and I take a picture of him and when he turns to walk away I realize he's got sparkles all over his face. But I didn't get it in the shot because I didn't we were in the shadow, it didn't really pop out. I shot him kind of quickly. So then I'm looking and I'm like, oh shit, I gotta find that kid again. So I and it's a big market, you know, and so I looked all around. Finally I find him, I turn him around, we shoot it again, so you can really get the sparkles. And so I'm thinking it's some kind of religious thing or something. I say s and he doesn't speak much English. I'm like, what's this? And I'm pointing to my face and he goes, Rave. He had been at a rave all night the night before. And I'm looking around going, where the hell is he finding a rave in Kolkata? Yeah. Um especially out here. Like you must live somewhere close. And it's just those kind of totally unexpected things, you know. We we were up very early one morning at like five o'clock in the morning driving somewhere. We stopped at a roadside place and I wanted an espresso. They wanted some tea. So I finally get a little espresso. It took them forever to make it because they don't really make, they had to boil this coffee thing. I set it down on the desk. I go to check something, I come back, and a humongous cow, which is you know, sacred there, nobody's comes over and basically just chomps my whole paper tea cup my whole paper coffee cup and just boom, they're okay, well now my coffee's gone. But this cow. And I I I saw it coming, so I was able to get the phone out and film it. And it was just so f like you just never know what you're gonna see, you know, the next step, you know. And and I love that surprise. That's amaz |
| Unknown | ing. Uh and you have in fact previously answered question number three, which is what is the best advice you've ever uh ever received? Yes. Number four is guilty of pleasure. Do you have any? Sir, do you have any guilty pleasures? I feel like you do |
| Unknown | . Guilty pleasures. Um Yeah, I mean, you know, I like shopping. Yeah. I find that fun. Which I don't know how I did it, but somehow at um my kids hate shopping. I've got two two teenage daughters. Yeah. So I don't know how I did it, but somehow they don't love shopping as much as I do. I think as out of guilt, when I would come home from a big trip when they were younger, I'd be like, come on, let's go shopping. Let me buy you things. And uh so they don't bother me for a whole lot of things considering they're teenage girls. Um but I think my guilty pleasure is um Jenny loves reality TV. Loves The Bachelor and Real Housewives. So to be with her and to share her life and for us to have I have to sit there with her and watch some of those shows. I don't enjoy it. But as a as a fiance and as someone that wants to be in her life and a husband, I feel that I have to do that. And um every once in a while I enjoy a couple of the episodes. So I guess that would maybe be one of my guilty pleasures |
| Unknown | . Okay. And finally, do you have a cultural recommendation a cultural recomm |
| Unknown | endation um well can I say something like you know really delving into the documentaries on like iTunes and of course Netflix I just find that um 'cause that's what I do a lot of times too, like scope out if I want to go to a place and you know, I really love these sub subcultures. I find fascinating. That's maybe one of the reasons I moved to New York. Um so like I mentioned before, we watched uh Paris is burning,. You know I mean I really wish I would have had a chance to shoot that at that time. Um not only, you know, photographically would it be great, but just I'm just always thinking it's so touching to see people who are into a particular culture not because they think it's gonna make them a lot of money or become famous, but because these are people who are coming together out of a common love for something and they really create a culture. And so you see that in that or um uh I just love these documents. There's a great documentary on iTunes called On the Bowery. And so this uh person shot this documentary just over here, like in the 30s and 40s, and you still recognize a lot of those buildings, but it was really the Bowery at that time. And there's two people that are kind of acting, so the story is kind of around them. But everybody else is quite obviously not actors. Yeah. Because nobody can act that drunk that well. so my cultural thing would be there's a whole culture on your TV of documentaries and things like that that you can watch and um and really explore the world from ever having to leave your couch and which I think motivate you to then go out and f learn about those things and find out about the world |
| Unknown | . Um I guess there's two. Uh the first of which is uh e I'm sure you guys all heard about the this college admissions scandal, right? Uh which is just fascinating, you know, by itself. But I'll I'll give a recommendation of check out New York magazine's coverage of it. I would say that nobody covers privilege and news better than New York magazine, and they did it, they just fucking nailed it. I mean again, there's nobody that can do that type of of like really kind of like salty, funny, but like really insightful and really like strong journalism, like like New York like New York magazine. So I would check that out. They've they've done, you know, they have a story a day at least about it. Uh and then the second one is kind of a humble brag, but also a recommendation, and that is Reyos, the restaurant on the Upper East Side, the old Italian restaurant. Uh-huh. Have you have you been? No, I thought it was downtown Ray's I mean I've heard of it but there's Raul's over here. Okay. It is so they claim the most difficult reservation to get in the United States. And a friend of mine said, Hey, you know, I've got this table of rayos, do you wanna do you wanna come? And so, of course. It is amazing. It is really I mean, it is something out of a movie. Um you know it it's there's ten tables. They do one seating per night every night. The tables are owned, so this gentleman who has a table that I'm friends with, his family has had this table since nineteen seventy-five. Every Monday. And you have to go. if And you don't go then the table will be passed along to somebody else and so they can pass it off to friends, etcetera. But basically th it's it's imp you can't buy your way in, you know, it's not something that that money will afford you. Uh it is just this wonderful experience of just red sauce Italian, just old school lasagna, meatballs, fried chicken, even. It is an amazing place that I cannot recommend enough. I mean, it was one of those like pure, pure magical New York experiences. Ten tables uh and one seating per night. So I said, hey, what time should we you know, what time's the reservation? He goes, Oh, we have it all night. You can show up at five o'clock, you can show up at eleven o'clock, the table is yours. Which is just a wild, wild thing. So if you have the opportunity, I would I would really pursue buy it's |
| Unknown | almost like buying a parking space basically, right? Like basically. But it's only one night a week or whatever. Like he can buy however many n |
| Unknown | ights a week. So figure out how to do it. And and and if he doesn't use it, he gives it to a friend or family, et cetera. But his his parents had this table from the seventies. Uh and you know they they all know each other and it really is the this amazing thing. And so now it you know, they they do Rayos pasta sauce, which you can buy at Whole Foods or whatever. And there is a Rayos, I think in Las Vegas, you know, more kind of commercial Disney like version of it, but the original, as I said, ten table. But is there anything in your |
| Unknown | life that you would want to commit to from nineteen seventy-five to now? That's a really good question. I mean I think you could if you could commit to something today that would be great and everyone would be jealous, like I can't hardly think of anything that I would want 30 years from now that I because after a while I'd be like, oh God, I got that table. I'd gotta give some. I' |
| Unknown | m not doing carbs anymore. What was I thinking? I mean I guess y you could just stop going, right? So I mean it's like you have to you don't have to pay anything to keep the table. But you said it but if you don't go, somebody else gets the table, right? Eventually, yeah. Like if you stop coming for for a period of time, they'll be like, Hey dude, where are you? you know, let's let's pass the table on to somebody else. Uh it just feels like one of those places that can only exist in New York and and it only does. Uh and also like even in in New York of today, like this would like quickly get co-opted by hedge funders and and whatever. And the people that that have these tables are not I mean Bloomberg has a table, but like beyond that, it's not a hedge fundy crowd, it's not a finance crowd. It's like interesting people. And like the the mu the the the friend who who has the table, his mother was a florist on the upper east side. And like a a well to do florist, but like she was a florist. And like she was just part of this community, and somehow they said, Hey, do you want a table sometime? And and that's how it happened. How is this not a Seinfeld episode? I mean it's dying to be a Larry David or like a sign flapper. Absolutely. I mean it really you you should Google it. I mean like Vanity Fair has written about it, etcetera. It is really just a wild, wild place. And the fact that like you don't really realize how small ten tables is like ten tables is nothing. You're talking like 30 people in there. And you know, it's all cash. It is just a really neat experience. So highly recommend it if you can if you can make it happen. Greg, can you make that happen? Okay |
| Unknown | . So I formally apologize to you for making this one run so long. But maybe you can get another um uh you know, a part one advertiser and a part two advertiser. Maybe I just made you money bulgari for number two. Yeah. Bulgari. Not not Ben Re |
| Unknown | yes. Ben Reyos, exactly. Uh Scott Schumann, living legend, truly uh uh a true honor to have you here on Hodinky Radio. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very very much for having me. It's been |
| Unknown | quite a uh a fun afternoon to come in and do this and I just want to give you a little warning, as you know I live right across the street. So whatever that party is every night that your cleaning lady is doing here and these people she's inviting when you guys are g It's Reyes. Yeah. Yeah. It's toughest to get into the party that she has here every night when you guys are gone. But I watch it from my window. I'm like, wow, if they only knew. Now you know. Now we know. |
| Unknown | This week's episode was recorded at Hodinky HQ in New York City and was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show, it really does make a difference. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. |