The Business of Watches [48] The GPGH Jury And Award Winners With Senior Editor Mark Kauzlarich¶
Published on Wed, 11 Nov 2026 15:00:00 +0000
We sit down with Mark Kauzlarich to get a behind the scenes look at the GPHG jury process and recap his week in Geneva, the big awards, and what they mean for the industry.
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| Andy Hoffman | This episode of the business of watches is brought to you by Watches of Switzerland, the premier retailer of the world's most prestigious timepiece brands. Stay tuned later in the episode for a special offer for listeners of the show. Welcome to the business of watches, the Ho-Dinky podcast where we go behind the scenes and talk to the business executives, leaders, and industry insiders who are making things tick. I'm your host, Andy Hoffman. Today, a special Sunday recording broadcast. I'm joined by my colleague, Hodinkee's senior editor, Mark Kozlerich, and member of the GPHG jury for 2026. Mark, you've been here all week. We've got to hang out quite a bit. But uh we're here to talk about the GPHG and all that's been going on here. Also auction season. Welcome to the business of watches. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Thanks for having me. And Aaron Powell |
| Andy Hoffman | Not everyone gets this experience every day. |
| Andy Hoffman | I try to do the show as much in person when I'm doing CEOs as possible, but it's a special treat to have you here. So yeah, you've been here all week. Let's hear about your week. And I guess it started on the Monday. This is your first time being on the jury, but certainly not your first time |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Way, but there's certain things that I I can't talk about. You know, we were sworn to secrecy in the room about our debates and discussions and and things that happened in the room. Um we also had no idea, I'll I'll say this in advance. We had no idea after we finished voting what what the results might be. So you know, surprisingly, I assume that more people that I would run into would ask me who was gonna win or what have you. Some people didn't even know, even at brands, they didn't know when the voting was taking place, so they didn't they didn't know that I had already voted, and then they were like, oh, maybe you have some insight. No. It was quite the interesting thing. So um I've been working on a diary of my past uh week in a way. Ben did the same in twenty twenty three when he was on the jury, and um that'll run a little bit after this, hopefully. Depends on how quickly I can get it done. But Monday we we left the hotel, we arrived at um the MAH. You can help me with the pronunciation of the Musée d'Arts. Yeah. There you go. Thank you. And you know, slowly trickled in around eight AM to to start the proceedings. That's where the most recent exhibition of the uh the finalists was being held. The |
| Andy Hoffman | vernisage. Yeah. So it was it |
| Mark Kauzlarich | was quite interesting actually to walk in and the first thing that you see in front of you is this giant aguido hand statue. Kind of emphasized exactly, you know, what we were there for and and how high the stakes were for everybody there. And one of the things as I walked through the exhibition before we even got into the voting room is just thinking about, as I would emphasize later in the week, how important this is not just to the brands or the n names on the dial and these things, but you know, I I've spent a lot of time in factories seeing people doing things that most people would find to be sort of menial tasks or boring or repetitive, but at the end of the day, these are the things that need to be done so that these watches get in front of us and then they go out into the world and people fall in love with them. And so you see this, and then they have the little statues, the the that people will win sitting right by the watches that are nominated. And yeah, like this this can make a a huge difference to to a brand. So um we went uh behind closed doors, there were two notaries um which are you, know leg,al officials in in Switzerland, two notaries there to tally up the votes. But went behind closed doors. There were d four tables, six people at each table. Some of us were residents and some were nomads, which meant uh between rounds we would do each table would get, you know, w one set of watches from each category and they'd rotate. So we'd have as long as we needed with each watch to look at them, debate amongst ourselves. We could talk to people at other tables. For instance, uh on occasion, Pierre Salinitro, who is uh a legend of uh gem setting, gem sourcing, uh company is owned by Patek now, but he works with Rolex and a lot of other uh companies for the the crazy um pieces that you see. You know, he knows gems. And if I wanted to ask about gems, I could lean over to Pierre and say, I uh you know, is this as good as I think it is or what am I missing? Uh he's |
| Andy Hoffman | he he would uh be the guy with the knowledge. Yeah, he |
| Mark Kauzlarich | would. And uh you know, I think for things like clocks we had Francois Jeannot, if you wanted to talk about um large scale mechanics and automata and so we we were at our table but we had some freedom to talk to other people and they would do the four categories as we went around four categories and then the nomads would get up after a little break and move to a different table. So the people that we were speaking with were half the same, half different, and and we would get different um different debates and conversations. And I think really one of the the strengths of the the jury, you know, I don't know everybody that w has been on past juries, but uh what I noticed from this year specifically having talked to everybody is that one of the big strengths is that there were so many varied opinions. I mean, you have somebody like my now good friend Wes Lang who understands and and appreciates some of the technicalities of these watches, but it's more about the passion and the feeling and the and the emotion. And then you have some other people on the jury who, you know, technicality, horology, accuracy, those are number one. And if it doesn't meet those criteria, then what are we talking about? You know? And um and the goal is to have as as much variety and as much debate as possible about these watches and try to leave our biases at the door. We were instructed that, you know, we're it's not about the brands, it's not about the people we know. it's about what's in front of us and how it stands up against everything else in the category and how it makes you feel technicality, all of that goes into one. So we did uh all of our voting on the watches. We were basically, I mean we could get up and get a coffee, leave the room during our breaks, but basically, you know, in this room with these giant imposing wood doors, uh and uh and a very violent uh depiction of of this uh history of the founding of Switzerland over the doors. So it was uh you know extra intimidating and then you've got the legal legal figures. But they uh we we looked at all the watches, we debated, we handled things, we tried things, we could you know chime the repeater on the the grand strike and these things. And then just wrote down our rankings on a piece of paper privately. Um not ranking. So that's |
| Andy Hoffman | five pieces in every category or six pieces in every category And uh |
| Mark Kauzlarich | and weighted weighted results uh same as on the academy. uh you give the most points to the watch you like the best and so on, and uh fold your paper, hold it up in the air and somebody comes around, takes it to the notary, and then you're you're on to the next one. So it was it was quite the experience. And so that was that was actually all before lunch. And then after lunch we were we were kind of sequestered again to discuss all of these special jury prizes. So one one other thing I'll say, um, and maybe this is too deep in the weeds, but I don't remember the exact percentage, but a percentage of the vote comes from the academy on the finalists, and then a larger percentage is the the jury because we get to see the watches in person. We get to have these discussions. Uh some people did reach out to brands or take meetings with brands to better understand some things that might not have been obvious. For instance, I spoke with Blanc Pond because I did not see the their double ground sonnery and I had some um some technical questions and you know, so and I I did the same with a couple of other brands that I hadn't had time. But then I mean we're seeing the watches in person. You've got a a thousand member Academy, how many people are seeing the double grand sonnery when they're making two a year? Um James Stacy |
| Andy Hoffman | saw it. Yeah, James Stacey saw it and his article |
| Mark Kauzlarich | was great and it was actually gr great research for me. And I had done a lot of of research. I had a 1014 page document of one, one for each entry and all the categories and everything. So I had done research in advance, but I wanted to know. So we did that and then that is a ba that's balanced uh between the academy and the jury uh and then the in the afternoon was dedicated to the special jury prizes, which are only uh the jury. |
| Andy Hoffman | You know, we we make the decision amongst |
| Mark Kauzlarich | ourselves, a guidor and and so on and so forth. So it was a it was an interesting process. Again, all we talked about stays in there, but it was great to see how it actually works because I don't think um a lot of people have insight into that nor nor have shared that. And hopefully I believe it's okay that I'm sharing what I'm sharing. But uh but yeah, it's I think the hands-on part of it I I hope will give some extra credence to what the jury decides in that room. I mean we really do look at the watches, spend time, take it seriously, and we're not rushed. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah, it's it yeah, indeed. It sounds like a very deliberate and thorough process. Uh w one thing I would I would ask, I mean, w when you are considering the pieces and having those discussions, at all do you consider or talk about what you know winning would do for a particular watchmaker or brand. Do you take those aspects into consideration? Obviously, GPHG has been pretty important um trophy for certain watchmakers or brands. But yeah, does that play into the into the discussion at all? Aaron Powell |
| Mark Kauzlarich | You know, as much as I I said, you know, I I I am aware of that. I think once I was in the room it wa I didn't think about it as much. Now I was reminded of it again the next day. I spent some time with Andrea Furlon, which uh we we can talk about, but I it was huge. for their brand But at the same time, like we're not here to pick winners as uh companies for the future where it's the watches in front of us. For me, factors were more about you know novelty was was important in my voting. I think, you know, I I personally leaned a little bit more towards watches that were fully new models, fully new movements, unless they were up against something that was just such an outstanding uh iteration of something that already existed that it was better than everybody else's uh entry. I I felt like you know, newness m mattered to me. |
| Andy Hoffman | But not so much, you know, um I |
| Mark Kauzlarich | I wasn't thinking, okay, uh, you know, if if space one wins, that's huge for space one. You know, I'm I I would be happy for that. |
| Andy Hoffman | They did though. They did. Um but |
| Mark Kauzlarich | that wasn't my my thought process. I don't I don't know about anybody else. Um yeah. And uh as for discussions in the room, yeah, and not that I not that I could share |
| Andy Hoffman | Interesting. Interesting. Because yeah, I mean, you know, as I say, I mean, um winning a GPHD or not winning a GPHD for some brands and watchmakers can be a really uh life-changing proposition. So let's um before we get back to the awards themselves, um, which were last night and were actually quite um enjoyable and and quite uh smooth. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah and expedient too. And |
| Andy Hoffman | expedient indeed. I mentioned that in the in our story. But um tell me uh about the rest of your week. I mean, you know, you're based in New York. Uh you do spend a lot of time here, but you had a a full week here. So what was uh what was the on the agenda after uh after voting? |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah, I I was telling somebody while uh while I was taking some photos for this for this uh diary entry that I'm I'm working on I'm I'm doing less wrist shots, although there's one gentleman that I wanna hunt down today that had um a watch on on his uh Instagram that I thought, oh boy, I really would love to just sh show that we get we get to see these things. But uh the benefits of doing something like this diary entry is I I hope that people will see more of what it actually is like to to do this job. Because if you just thought, oh, Mark's there for GPHG, I might not turn around some of these stories for a month or two that I'm working on. And so you forget that that comes from somewhere. So my week, you know, my next day was not as early. I think maybe nine thirty, I was over at uh Chopar in Mehran and went to their uh, you know, Geneva area headquarters um to uh take a tour and I never been to shopar. I've been to probably a dozen or so manufacturers and seen a lot. And I remember the first time I I went to more than, you know, a handful and I thought, oh, it's kinda all the same. Eventually, you know, it's you you get the the CNC machines and the people putting movements together. The more that I've been in the industry, the more I I realize that the subtle differences between two two manufacturers and and how they perceive what they're doing and the things that they do or the things that they're willing to show that I haven't seen elsewhere. So that was that was quite cool. That was Tuesday and um I mean they allowed me to photograph some of the like how they do their uh certification on on accuracy before they send a Cosk and and double checking things and I got to see you know the computer program that they use, which some brands might be a little bit more protective about that. And they're very proud of their LUC watches and the accuracy. I did not know that they had a museum. They actually have three museums. I did not know I did not know that. They have a museum at their headquarters and then they have two out in Fleurier, which is at the manufacturer. Yeah, at the manufacturer. And they're not open to the public, unfortunately, but um for for visitors it's quite cool. and one of the one of the really insightful things that I saw there was bracelets. And I I use bracelets as an example of like the things that people, you know, kind of take for granted. And not all or not most maybe are doing that building bracelets in house, making the parts. I saw all of the parts being made. I saw the people putting them together, but I also saw them doing it alongside doing jewelry for happy sport and and some and happy diamonds and these other things. So the |
| Andy Hoffman | jewelry and the and the watchmaking component some of the components are are basically integrated. Trevor |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Burrus, I mean they're they're a they're a holistic company in that way. and a lot of brands, if they want to do jewelry off to the side, they they view them as two completely different things. And for them, they're a s the same skill set. You can use the same skills to put together bracelets as you can to put together jewelry and not w might as well capitalize on the fact that you have that sabre faire, which really I mean, I really like Chopard, but it it it was a different level of respect of how they view what they're doing. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. And then that night I like I said, |
| Mark Kauzlarich | I saw Fr uh Andre Ferlon who's been a a friend for uh a number of years from Furlon Mari and um went by their their offices and got to see some |
| Andy Hoffman | here in Oviv. yeah. Um not |
| Mark Kauzlarich | not too far away from my hotel, not too far away from you. So uh a great centrally located place to hang out, I guess. But the you know, I got to see some things that they are working on for uh later this month. |
| Andy Hoffman | yeah. Uh early next year, |
| Mark Kauzlarich | saw the prototype for their perpetual calendar, which was in GPHG a number of years ago and had some technical challenges. It was very audacious to try to do this this watch line on that, but I got to play around with the perpetual calendar in their kind of ingenious way that you can just jump the date forward or day forward if you get the setting off. Um you know, yeah, you you I said, okay, what w the difference that it can make. I mean, uh I think that was five years ago that they won um their category and they were they were a brand that started on Kickstarter making Mecha Quartz watches that were quite compelling and attractive and and captured attention. But you know, now they're they're doing more quartz complications coming. We've got uh mechanical complications that are gonna be some of the most affordable of their kind. And I I don't doubt that they would have had success, but I don't know that it would have been the same if they hadn't gotten that extra attention, you know? Aaron Ross Powell |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah, no, I think that's a that's a very good point. And uh and yeah, I mean indeed, it is about sort of showing spotlights on brands and and and watchmakers at a certain time and and and that was a very different time for that, Brandon. It's quite interesting where Andrea um and and his team have have have brought that brand and and and obviously yeah, I mean, you know, innovation and and and kinds of complex watchmaking challenges are are n are certainly now part of the offer there. So that's uh |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah. and uh affordability, I mean they were uh I guess I believe it was petit a gui that they won and and um I mean that's all about affordability and value and and that's still a a cornerstone of what they're doing. So it wasn't a matter of oh, we won this award, we have extra attention, let's completely throw our uh what we were doing out the window and do what we really want to do. No, that was that was who they are. It's who they continue to be. |
| Andy Hoffman | This episode of the Business of Watches is brought to you by Watches of Switzerland, home to a carefully curated collection from the world's most prestigious watchmakers. And whether you're chasing a grail or buying your first serious watch, Watches of Switzerland is a great place to make it happen. And for listeners of the business of watch Take two hundred dollars off your first order of one thousand dollars or more on full price items at watchesofswitzerland.com. Just use the code HDK pod-Holiday-200 at checkout. That's HDKPOD-HOLIDAY with a capital H dash two zero zero. The code is case sensitive and the easiest way to get it right is the link in our show notes. The offer is valid in the U.S. only, online only, through January 4th, 2027, while supplies last and is subject to availability. Exclusions apply, so see the full terms at watchesofswitzerland.com |
| Mark Kauzlarich | So that was I mean by Tuesday I had I had a pretty full day that day and then Wednesday I got in a car at 745 and drove out to Fleurier to see the rest of the show part manufacture and and see some parts that I hadn't seen. You know, saw their Ebosch manufacture, so where where all of the movements are made for uh LUC, you know, where the CNCing is done for LUC and um uh for Ferdinand Bar II, anything that's not the nasals du Montreal which which is obviously made by hand without the help of the CNC machines. and but I s I saw that in the morning. And again, it's it's so fun to see, even with the language barrier, people that are passionate about a a job that for us we look at the big picture. And there might be some people that like mach machining, but you know, to have a guy that's like just so excited to show me multi-axis machining and show me all the little cuts and parts and how many, you know, I I took notes, I don't remember off the top of my head, but like plates for the for the uh grand strike or the full strike and him saying, you know, we can we can do ten at a time and it'll take us X amount of days. We set up for that and it takes us days. You know? Um with the machining, because of the number of of different levels and cuts and holes and and that's just to start to have a base plate just for one part. And uh that's where as you can tell by by our podcast recording, I I can get a long a little long winded, but I just wanna talk to these people and learn more and then you look at your your time and you're already forty five minutes over on your allotted time to be at the CNC department or whatever. But it is fun to see people that do these things that we don't think necessarily as the sexy part of watchmaking. Right. Be really passionate and very intelligent and uh you know problem solvers and and these things. So went there, um went to the uh kind of student workshop that they have where they train um I believe it's they have eight students at a time. They take on two new students from from different schools every year and they cycle them through and |
| Andy Hoffman | all watchmaking students. But they also have um |
| Mark Kauzlarich | they have an engineering uh program too, so they have they take in students from that are more engineering oriented to to train at that's more I believe in in Geneva and I believe same with the jewelry students. And so you have the watchmaking students in Fleurier and you see you walk in and you see a kid who might be fifteen years old. They you know, they've you finished school around fifteen and can go into that program, super young kids, and they're working with old tools and working on uh components showing us, you know, what they can do. So I I saw a a lot of their manufacturing capabilities and then finally in the later afternoon I I did the same with Ferdinand II, which is integrated into the manufacturer in a way that you're Yeah, |
| Andy Hoffman | how should we think about how that set up? Yeah. Because |
| Mark Kauzlarich | obviously they did quite well uh between Should |
| Andy Hoffman | be our infrared number two. You know, again |
| Mark Kauzlarich | it's this it's this unified sense of like what what you can do as a company if you have access to everything. But you know, how far do you want to take it? What's the underlying goal of that. And so yeah, you see you see main plates from Ferdinand II in the in the ebosh factory, but they are then just one section of one floor of the building is is Ferdinand II and it's everybody in there. |
| Andy Hoffman | Hmm. You know, I w I went to other parts |
| Mark Kauzlarich | of the building where they were doing finishing for LUC and they were doing enameling, straw marketry. I saw the woman that does straw marketry who's among my friends who collect shoparti's kind of legendary. It's a it's this idea that they brought that hadn't been done really in watchmaking. But for number two is ha has its own door with its name on it that behind that is just them. And um it's the same perspective, just taken to a new level. I mean, you'll have somebody there who is you know, other other places and I'll have to double check, but I think Chopar L U C is kind of like this is you have the people that are specialists and in the finishing that they're specialists in. So you you've got the Anglage people, you've got the black polished people, you've got and maybe they can do multiple, but you know, Perlog people might stick to that if they're great at that. For number two, you walk in and one of the first things you see is the finishing room. If they start with a sandblasted plate, you have one person sandblast all the parts that they are going to be working on. They do them all at the same time so that the finishing is exactly the same. So you don't do a part at a different time. Yeah, and same b and they do that, and then they take those parts and those belong to them and they take them every step of the way through all of the finishing. And one of the things I didn't think about is if you sandblast a part and then you have to start cutting the angles for the for the angle, which are not pre-cut. It's just it's a rough plate and and they do that all by hand. Some places pre-start those angles and then you do the finishing. |
| Andy Hoffman | If you slip and you nick a plate, |
| Mark Kauzlarich | whether it's at the beginning or the end, you can't go back and re-sandblast that plate. Even if you could, it wouldn't match the other plates. So every single part they do themselves start to finish one person. Then they take all those parts and they hand them over to the the watchmakers who start to finish build one watch by hand. And that's not unusual. Rechap does that. But also to be in a larger company and have the same sort of thought process uh but they still I believe they said it's about um thirty, thirty five people making about sixty five watches a year. That's not how you would think of even though Shopara is not as big as um an omega or Rolex or what what have you, but that that's not how I would think of a component of a larger company operating. And you can look out their window and see Kari Voodoin and up on his hill and just outside of town and you see his his building and he's got more people doing about the same amount of watches. Um it's a very similar thought process and and approach. So that was that was a quite quite a cool experience. And I'll do a full story on my visit there as well. |
| Andy Hoffman | Nice. Well we look forward to that. Thursday and |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Friday we're largely like visiting auction, seeing auction previews because the auctions started on the weekend. So it is, you know, one of the busiest weeks of the year uh in a different way thanches Wat and Wonders or Geneva Watch Days, but it's still a busy week. So auction previews met with Peter Mambada to see a a new watch that'll be coming out I believe by the time this podcast will run, but I I won't spoil it just in case. |
| Andy Hoffman | Okay. Um so I I saw that, photographed |
| Mark Kauzlarich | that, spent some time talking to them, catching up. Another two guys who I really uh enjoy and and believe in and I've told them, you know, not not everything stylistically about their watches is for me personally. I think it's it's all great. It's all perfect. But um again, it's like I really believe in what they're doing. And so they're uh people that I always love to talk to and make make time for. And um so that was Thursday and Friday more of the same thing. Had a had a meeting in the morning with um with somebody to look at a a vintage watch that could be quite cool and quite important. I would need to do some research on more checking out auctions in the afternoon and then uh went by and saw Retchup in the afternoon on Friday. West Lang popped in while I was there and so it was nice because it kind of diffuses the the formality, you know. I've I've known Retchet for a while and and we've gotten to be more and more friendly, I would say, over time. And but, you know, I I go in and I'm not just a dude hanging out. I'm there to see a product. I'm there to look at it, ask him questions. Sometimes, you know, we debate a little bit about my perspective on something that you know I see in his chronograph and he said, Oh no, I I disagree about, you know, what you're seeing and this is why and and uh we have these discussions and and he did tell me like his he wants people to push back on on some of these things, you know You know, he's had a tremendous amount of success, but the number of people I'm sure that walk through the door that tell him that he's the best person to ever live and that everything he does is perfect is is is also not healthy for somebody that he still cares about the work and he wants to grow. And if people disagree with him, uh he wants to hear that. So that was that was my Friday, and I I got to see also a a unique watch that he made for himself, which has been sort of circulating Instagram. And uh he graciously let me take some photos of it. So I'm gonna just do a little story about like what a watchmaker makes for themselves and why, especially one who's on such a tear as he is, you know. Um I think |
| Andy Hoffman | tear is uh is one way to put it. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah. I mean but I I am curious, you know, what would a watchmaker make for themselves? It's a good reflection of not necessarily what you make for the market, but what speaks to you It's the same as a collector that I was walking with down the road and we ran into a dealer and in five seconds that collector said, if you find X type of watch, give me a call. And I said, I learned more about you in those five seconds and what you care about, then I, you know, I know everything you collect, but that's the one thing you'll pitch about yourself. It's the same as what one w watch would you put on your wrist you can learn a lot. |
| Andy Hoffman | Absolutely. and so you know give us a bit of a preview, if you can. I mean, you know, what surprised you or what did you find most compelling about the about the watch |
| Andy Hoffman | that Rec Shep uh made for himself? Aaron Ross |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Powell I mean there are pictures of it floating around |
| Andy Hoffman | as well. Yeah. So uh sort of a |
| Mark Kauzlarich | very muted gray-green kind of dial, not super vibrant. Um when you look at it in person, it's it almost actually looked like somebody had done taken a dial plate and done a like some sort of relief engraving where the in indices were raised and uh you had this like grained plate underneath. But no, it's just the texture of the enamel and then um then you do the layer of of the indices on top of it. But then he had diamond indices, which has seemingly become one of the most popular things. There are a number of actually unique CC2s. This was a chronomet contemporarine too. There's a number that have been made and uh a lot of a lot of diamond or gem indices dials. And so you can kind of see that these things that he did, like the the ten pieces with a black dial and diamond indices like Ben has, or the the rose gold with ruby indices on a you know an ivory dial. You can start to see, okay, these are the things that he would do he liked, these were the ideas, but he had limited capacitor. He wanted to keep him special. And then for him switching to a to a greend dial, I |
| Andy Hoffman | mean seeing him at that |
| Mark Kauzlarich | day, seeing him at the GPHD ceremony, seeing like the the j the jackets that they wear in the workshop, he has a thing for like this army green or you know. So uh I I guess it all all makes sense in a way. But um there's only gonna be one of those and talking to a lot of people, there there's maybe some frustration that there's only going to be one of those because a lot of people found it really, really attractive. Yeah. So I mean that's that's what a week is like. Now granted, then the next morning I woke up uh kind of slept in and rested because I knew it was gonna be a long day, went over to Phillips for about an hour, hour and a half in the afternoon to see some people, watch some voting, saw this wild bidding that was going on for the F.P. Jorn uh Regency dial that was up for sale. It's the only pink gold regency engraved dial. And uh for uh resonance. So I was in the room and it was I mean, it's always fun to have some sort of show happen, you know. the bidding |
| Andy Hoffman | always puts on the show. Yeah, and Phillips always puts on a show |
| Mark Kauzlarich | and and um you know there was bidding where it was you know one point six, one point eight million Swiss francs and one point eight and then two and you had all of on each side of the room are specialists on the phone with prospective bidders or bidders that are trying to win this watch and they're shouting. They're trying to get their bid in because maybe they can cut somebody off and maybe their their buyer is their maximum is you know two point four and so they need to get their bid in because if that's where it lands, if if they get beat out, they there's no there's no luck. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah, so they're fighting for that. And they're fighting and |
| Mark Kauzlarich | there was somebody in the back trying to bid but, they're being sh shouted down by these specialists and and Arel said, Excuse me, sorry, I I believe I hear a bid in the back, but I can't hear if you all are yelling at me. Sir, in the back and and the gentleman in the back of the room said five million. From two point six to five. |
| Andy Hoffman | Big jump. Big jump. And we call |
| Mark Kauzlarich | that throwing the hammer. Um, you know, you your goal there is you have an idea of what you want to spend and that might not be the maximum, but if you can cut people off, the hope is that you take some error out of the room a little bit and slow things down. And it was five million for about 10 seconds and it was five two and then it was five four. And uh I think you know, and that person kept coming back and I think we were around six or a little over six million, and then that person tried to throw the hammer again and said seven million. And um all of a sudden Alex Gottby from Phillips came on from a phone bid and said seven one and that was it. The person in the room that had been going so hard was was no longer in the game. And I so seven must have been their max. It was a person in the room on the phone who is known in the circles, I won't say who, um, but yeah, it was uh I mean it's always good to get a little show in for sure. Aaron Powell |
| Andy Hoffman | definitely. And was um you know uh Francois Pajorn himself has been quite active in uh in bidding on some of his pieces. was he involved in that uh action? |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah, I I he wasn't in the room, but yeah, it was uh I mean I guess I can say because I you know if you're seen in the room people m you y can't deny that you were there. |
| Andy Hoffman | Um it was actually it was actually Sean Mehta |
| Mark Kauzlarich | from from F.P. Jorn. Um who uh you know, is is very much in the inner circle and he was on the phone with an airpod on covering his mouth and and speaking to speaking to somebody on the phone. So I would I would guess that Francois Paul was maybe on the other end of that line. Although I spoke with him briefly, but he didn't say, and I didn't want to push him. But you know, his comment to me was there's only one of them, and uh that's probably the last chance we'll have in a while. Now, my my retort to him is I said, I don't know that these prices will sustain for forever. So the question is, you know, if the prices do come down, will the person that owns it hold on to it for forever, or will they be willing to take a loss? Because I mean that's where you're at at this point. Is if the prices do come down, people will have to swallow their pride and sell at a loss or just keep it forever. But if it does come to market again, I think there's a decent chance that it it won't be a higher price. I I I mean I don't know where the the ceiling is for Jordan right now, but |
| Andy Hoffman | I think we have to be approaching it. But |
| Mark Kauzlarich | the all in price there is ten point five seven million US dollars. Like I don't know how long that is sustainable for a watch, even though it's unique and it's important to some respect. It is not um as historically important as some of the other watches recently. And maybe it is a sign that the market is is kind of coming to grips with the fact that important prices uh or historic prices should be for historic watches. |
| Andy Hoffman | Because maybe maybe if it was in the |
| Mark Kauzlarich | spring may,be it would have been people would have gotten caught up in the hype and it would have been an extra two million more. I I don't really know. So we'll have to see. I'm gonna check all of the FP drawn results and see what the trend is and if it's slowing or continuing. Aaron Powell |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. I mean, do you think that watch would be worthy of the museum for |
| Andy Hoffman | his you know which is one |
| Mark Kauzlarich | or two I I know that they said um I I spoke with somebody at Jorne recently. I know that there's one or two watches that are are not from the resonance line that they don't have, but they have nearly ever one of everything uh that's not unique, I guess. |
| Andy Hoffman | Um so we're talking about the potential for a |
| Mark Kauzlarich | story about that, and and there's one or two, you know, limited series that they don't have, but I would say it would fit. I I do think that Jorn now that he's in a position that he can do this, I do think he is kind of taking a more completist view of his own of his own watches and wanting to be a completest collector and uh um you know have have one of everything if he can now that he's going to be opening a museum. Aaron |
| Andy Hoffman | Ross Powell Interesting. So shall we move on then to to Saturday night and and the uh and the |
| Andy Hoffman | award ceremony itself. And |
| Andy Hoffman | you were a presenter as well. |
| Andy Hoffman | Um what uh what does that look like then um uh the evening for you? |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah. So I I'm actually going back to Monday as we were getting ready to leave, they told us all, you know, what categories if we were gonna present. Some people I think bowed out of presenting, didn't wanna present. Unfortunately Tiffany Toe, who was on the jury, she had responsibilities to auctioneer for Phillips. So she wasn't there until after, actually, because there was some overlap, unfortunately. Which I wonder there were some some people probably on the jury that were look I didn't notice, but I I would bet there were a handful of people checking their phones for bidding as well. Because uh you know, it's funny, I saw some people in the room at Phillips that were also on the phone at with Antiquorum while they were bidding on two lots at the same time. It's a busy week. So uh Tiffany unfortunately wasn't there uh for part of it, but we get told the categories we're presenting. And funny enough, as I mentioned, Pierre Solonitro, uh genius of gem setting, I told him how much I do l appreciate gem set watches and want to learn more. And then they came around and they go, Pierre, you're doing chronograph. Which is kind |
| Andy Hoffman | of your thing. Yeah. Well, I've written a lot about |
| Mark Kauzlarich | chronographs this year for sure. And then they go, Mark, you're doing gem set. And uh I tapped him on the shoulder and I said, Do you want to trade? And he kind of like punched me on the arm and he goes, There you go, you get you get the gem set. Um so we we were informed of that and then we all we all met at uh the venue at five o'clock to do some run throughs, kind of they told us how it was gonna work. Yeah, we had labeled seats and and how how it would work to walk through up onto the stage and behind the scenes and around the back of the curtain if we had to go to the other side and they're gonna give us the uh the award to hold and um and then they give us the envelope. And uh so they they told us that and people had questions and then we did some they wanted to do some video kind of um Cole Wallacer style of like the slow mo video of us doing a pose, which I am not uh I'm not that cool. So I did very, very little um for my pose, but we did some social video and some people did interviews and then otherwise it was just waiting as people showed up and get to see some friends uh that are there for the awards, uh whether they're from brands or or people that have been invited or people in the industry that just wanted to come. So uh it was kinda it was pr pretty uh, you know, f five to six o'clock, six thirty, it it was a a pretty pretty big whirlwind, you know, and you're there and I was thinking, man, I just hope I don't trip on stage or do something. You know? They told us you can you can say something, just don't make it super long winded, you know. Um |
| Andy Hoffman | you did not trip, uh I can confirm. |
| Andy Hoffman | and uh you you know, you told a little story |
| Andy Hoffman | about sort of, you know, sharing the passion of watchmaking and how |
| Andy Hoffman | it um it gets passed on or |
| Andy Hoffman | maybe introduced. Yeah. I mean uh tell us uh |
| Andy Hoffman | what you said. Yeah. So I mean we're we're |
| Mark Kauzlarich | sitting through the categories and and watching the winners, and as I said, I didn't know who was gonna win. You have some inkling of maybe basically. |
| Andy Hoffman | It was Piaget uh with the swinging pebble. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah, for the gemsec uh category. Piaget swinging pebble, I you know, I had no idea and as much as I was with uh Chopar all week, Chopar was in the category and I was a little nervous that if they won they were the only watch with a name that was explicitly in French. And uh and and I would have to then look like the idiot American that can't uh pronounce French. But so Piaget won and uh I went up on stage and I was thinking uh ahead, I had a a little thought that I w of what I would say. I mentioned that, you know, when I was one year old, my grandfather was showing me an American pocket watch and and I said my first words which were tick tock. and the the room laughed, which I I I thought was actually quite fun. Um but I you know I said in all in all seriousness, I think about that as I tour through these manufacturers or meet watchmakers because the the impact of the things they do. I mean, this that watch was made by a brand that no longer exists, but think about how long the work that some unknown person did and how long it's lived um with me and the impact it's had on me and and the the things that the the people in the room that are in the watchmaking industry do have an impact that goes so much farther and lasts potentially so much longer than they could ever imagine. And uh that's that's what we're all here for. I I hope I did a good job. I don't really remember exactly what I said. I hope I hope it had some some impact. But um a lot of people came up to me af after and asked if that was true. They didn't believe that that was true. But according to my my parents and my grandfather, that was the story. So Aaron Powell |
| Andy Hoffman | And you're sticking to it? Yeah. Wow. It was quite uh quite appropriate indeed. I think it did sort of hit home, you know, the w where the work and and creative process |
| Andy Hoffman | of uh of this industry goes and it and and and its lasting legacy. So um well done. And so, you know, |
| Andy Hoffman | yeah, we had the we had the |
| Andy Hoffman | winners, um, you know, full winners are on the Hodinkee website and uh and we covered it as it was going on. I mean, you know, Recap um uh won the Agri d'Or. Yeah, I mean what can we what can we say about that? I mean with the with the um flyback chronograph, I mean chronograph flyback, I guess is the way he puts it. Um yeah, I mean it's it was not uh a foregone conclusion. Aaron Ross Powell |
| Mark Kauzlarich | No. I mean there were a lot of things that to me were were maybe surprising. And again, you have to keep in mind you've got a thousand Academy members, and even with debate, I really have no way of knowing how people are going to vote. And so there were there were some surprises. I mean, I I guess first category was was a surprise to me again. I love the LUC 1860. It's I've I've thought about it a lot as I don't really own a dress watch and I've thought about like ye itah's kind of the perfect dress watch. It the finishing is phenomenal for the price, the the size, the everything about it is is great. I didn't know if other people would have the same perspective of m as me as, you know, it it it's just a new dial of an already great watch. But it was a new dial that I think captured a lot of attention from from the wider market. a salmon dial is a deep cut thing for collectors and that's what they started with for this model. And now you do a blue that I've talked to so many people and they're like, Now this is the watch that I would want. This is the one. And so I think maybe that's that's why I really have have no idea. And then, you know, we go into some other watches, the the skeletonized uh Daniel Roth, which was an outstanding watch. I think one of the maybe the biggest surprises right away was um Matthew Kluiger. Category meant to be for people that are early in their career and early in their brand and might not, you know, be able to quote unquote beat out a a more established brand in their category, but did something really great and we that's uh that's one of those prizes that the jury gets to vote on themselves. So they don't d debate that and who who should get that again, no idea what what people were gonna vote on, but the fact that that won I think was really cool. I mean it it was a |
| Andy Hoffman | true surprise and it was and it it it's great. Yeah. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah. Yeah. So I mean I I that's another watch that I have not uh until the the voting I had not seen in person and um I talked to him after I saw it in person and I said I really do want to spend some more time with it because we didn't I didn't get to do a hands-on. A number of these watches I didn't didn't do a hands-on with or we might not have had a Hodinkee done a hands-on. Some of them I actually delayed, partially because I was on the jury. I've photographed a a couple watches and I didn't want to um, you know, show any bias or or say things in advance about what I thought about this. Like, you know, next we have Blanc Pon with the double grand sonnery, but but for instance the the Parmigiani, I've been sitting on a on photos of from the Parmigiani uh chronograph Mysterio for for months now. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. But I was on the jury and I didn't want to |
| Mark Kauzlarich | like get too deep into that and uh then have people sitting and comparing my story of that versus my story of the APRD5 and oh what should I vote on or what you know it's a little maybe unfair in some ways because I already had a story out about the APRD5, but at some point I just had to say, okay, we can pause, let everybody make their decisions. But that that was to me another surprise. I mean that was a very strong category. It |
| Andy Hoffman | was very strong category. It was you know, you |
| Mark Kauzlarich | had the RD five, you had Retchup's watch, you had the Evergraph from Tag Horror, you had Louis Monet, uh and I can't remember the the last one, but it was a very, very strong category. And you had three watches out of that one category win awards last night, which was which was also very impressive. AP with the pocket watch. I think uh a lot of people were their 150 heritage pocket watch. I think a lot of people were quite impressed in person by that watch as well. And it's it's uh but I was more surprised that a pocket watch would win. You know, it's very anachronistic still no matter how |
| Andy Hoffman | modern. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah. And then I mean I'm just scrolling through real quick so we don't cover everything, but uh a couple of shout outs from me for personal favorites that I didn't really know until I saw in in person that like really struck me. Not that they were necessarily like I still don't want to say like they were the best or anybody else did not do a good job, but things that surprise me in person um Chopard Mystery Nut was was just like this fantastic, surprising, like just joyous thing that had such incredible craft and spent a lot of extra time looking at that, looking at the finishing. And I who would have thought a pennant watch in the shape of a nut with fully gem set would be so so exciting. And then the the Cosmo, the clock, um from La Valle. I it was |
| Andy Hoffman | Italian company, um which I |
| Andy Hoffman | knew very little about. And it |
| Andy Hoffman | was at unfortunately, and this is again |
| Mark Kauzlarich | showing failure of of you know, I can't cover everything, I can't see everything, and maybe failure of not maybe I trust name recognition or or what I hear people talking about too much, but they that that was at Dubai Watch Week and I didn't stop and look at it. |
| Andy Hoffman | And we were busy. And |
| Mark Kauzlarich | they would nod at me and I I didn't think, you know, I d I was running somewhere. And one of the jury members told me, like, I just spent all my time at Dubai Watch Week playing with this thing. And also you're talking about uh in the a a clock in the millions of dollars that weighs a massive amount, um has like a four hundred and six day power reserve somehow. Wow. Um and part of it is is it is interactive. You've got this m blown morano glass uh that surrounds it. I mean people need to take a look at it and and read up on the website, but like you know, you are supposed to move the glass and touch it and and ex experience it. and um I was just really impressed in person. But again, uh clocks was a really interesting category, very stacked category, but one that maybe I need to spend some more time looking at because I don't know a lot about clocks. I mean my esoterica ends at pocket watches, I guess. So and then you get you get down to the final awards and and I think um AP with the the RD5 for iconic was m was maybe a surprise as well. And uh the Royal Oak is an iconic watch and that's a |
| Andy Hoffman | Sure is. It's a really interesting |
| Mark Kauzlarich | interpretation, m maybe one of the most technical watches of the group. Constantine Shaken um winning for Audacity with the thinnest watch. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. And then it isn't a it is an amazing. It is. I |
| Mark Kauzlarich | mean it is. And we we spent a lot of time and we even like got to set and line that that watch and testament to that the fact that it's it is robust enough to work as a watch that you can you can pass it around among twenty twenty-six people and actually manipulate it. Trevor |
| Andy Hoffman | Burrus I want to ask about about uh Patek, you know, taking that prize for the exhibition. Uh it was great to see Patek there and and and uh accepting the prize. It was uh Jasmina Steele from Patek. Uh yeah. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah I think you know talking about just transmitting their craft but also horology in general. I I obviously Patek is doing doing their exhibitions and they're um showing a lot of their watches, but if you go through the museum portion of the exhibition as well, you see a lot of there were Berto clocks and stuff in there. Now, granted, it's a it's not it's not been the same continuous company Beirut, but like in theory, uh that that name is being used and it's a competitor, but they're there to transmit like horological history to some extent and through the lens of the work that they're doing now. And I think you think about the hundreds of thousands of people that have gone through the Watch Art Grand exhibitions over the years. You know, uh it reaches new audiences, it brings it to new places. Uh I think they've also set uh an example for a lot of other brands. You see what other brands are doing in a in a similar vein now of smaller exhibitions and and what they call activations. Uh you'll see a lot. |
| Andy Hoffman | Terrible word activation. Yeah. Yeah. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | you press the button and and the watchmaker does a little dance as an activation. Um no, I mean but you see brigade bringing Rose engines to to little booths and fairs now and letting people see what Guillos. And the |
| Andy Hoffman | museum is you know, the where anybody who's |
| Andy Hoffman | interested in watching here in Geneva and watchmaking ha has to go to. But it in this w you know, the grand exhibition sort of brings a part of a museum and and and Patek um to other places. And |
| Mark Kauzlarich | the manufacturing and the the servicing and the uh you know Anita Porchet standing there with a portfolio of her her work, you know, while somebody else is doing miniature enameling or clois and a off you know on the side, but you still have Anita Porche who does a lot of the the big pieces. And you're bringing that to r real people who aren't necessarily I mean, maybe Patek is in their mind, but they're not a Patek buyer. I mean, they bring students in. In Italy they were bringing in school school children to to tour and and do these things. And you're not you're not trying to convert a a seven-year old to to get on the list for a Nautilus or a 5270 or something. Like this is about the broader idea of watchmaking. And I and I do think that is also what the GPHG is, is even if you're not a winner, if you're a finalist or you're an entrant, um some people and they they've said in the comments, you know, it's it's marketing, okay, but it it's marketing, but it's marketing |
| Andy Hoffman | for the whole industry. But it's working for the whole industry and |
| Mark Kauzlarich | you're trying to uh get people to fall in love with watchmaking, even if it's not falling in love with the winner. |
| Andy Hoffman | Totally. and last thing then, I mean, you know, if you had |
| Andy Hoffman | your way or or any kind |
| Andy Hoffman | of influence or you know, where do we think that the the |
| Andy Hoffman | GPHG can you |
| Andy Hoffman | know can how it can evolve. I mean obviously Ed you know as you noted, I mean some of the criticism has been has been that, you know, brands like BitTech uh haven't always um participated, you know, Rolex uh hasn't been there, and then there's the aspect of, you know, that brands once they're nominated or to be nominated, they, you know, that they pay to do so. I mean, how might, you know, from your perspective after you know serving on the jury might um might the most important and biggest awards uh in the industry become even more important and uh and relevant for the industry? Aaron Powell |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Yeah, I think the the first part is harder to fix, right? Uh you have a big challenge. Uh I don't think that you can really force somebody to to accept a nomination. So even I guess let's tackle the second part first. If there's a world in which funding can be done with non-endemic sources, if you could get, you know, the the the ceremony and some of the GPHG is funded. We had uh we had Forbes through sponsors, we had Forbes, uh Swiss and Alps real estate, and there's a number of other things. I mean, you know, I stayed at the Hotel Du Parc des Avives and uh they were a sponsor as well. And so that helps to phrase some of the costs. If you can take that and and amplify that to a scale in which sponsors are covering the logistical costs, because again, you have exhibitions that are in uh Mumbai, Bangkok, and then uh going to London with uh with Watches of Switzerland, which is obviously uh the the parent company of Hodinkee. But if you could get more support to to pay for the travel I mean um insurance I'm sure is a big cost for some of these things. If you can defray those costs, I think that would be a great step. Um, I'm not sure if that's possible. Uh if it is possible when it would be implemented, but I would hope soon. Because that is it's an easy thing that people can take a shot Sure. Which again, let's we can talk about the value of of GPHG, but you know, trying to eliminate some of the the criticisms that are the easiest criticisms to make and then we can talk about some of the deeper conversations. But so imagine they there's a world in which that happens. Then how do you get brands to participate? Tudor didn't participate this year. I don't believe they did last year. Um, the last time they they were in a category was up against Ming's dive watch and Ming One. |
| Andy Hoffman | Ming One. And um I |
| Mark Kauzlarich | think there are some brands not saying that. There's |
| Andy Hoffman | risk in in doing that. There's risk uh |
| Mark Kauzlarich | in not winning. Um especially if you're a top brand. I think um there's risk not necessarily for two year Rolex, but let's look at a lot of Swatch Group or some of Richmond of putting a watch in and not winning, uh, it's a tacit acknowledgement that there is competition. And some brands would rather just focus on themselves and focus on their customers and client bases. And I I can respect and understand that. So I don't really know how you change that, but I I would love to see it be a little bit more across the board because I would love to see how Vashron's uh overseas cardinal points dual time would have competed and it would have actually been technically in the complication category. Interesting. And um there were things in that category that I didn't think really qualified as complications. And so there's there's some flexibility in some of the categories, but maybe it could have been in sport watch as well. But I would have loved to see how how that stacked up. And I'm not saying it was better than anything else, but but let's see. Um so I think there there are some changes to be made, but we also have to keep in mind that uh Switzerland m moves slow sometimes in in changes. Um and I do think talking to people at the GPHG that for all the grand conspiracies about how things happen and why things happen, like this is an organization that is relatively small, that has an outsized impact, that is trying really hard. And of course, like anything, you could do uh there could be changes or improvements, and some things could be done better. But um uh Ben said this in 2003, you know, it's it's the best we have right now. Um you look at one last thing I'll say is for everybody that says let's let's just open it up to everybody and and force it upon people that that was tried in France with a jewelry award recently and um that award is now canceled because uh you know it it just didn't go well, you know. Um so it's it's kind of what was it, Ben Franklin that said about democracy? Like it's it's the worst form of government except for every other form we've treated. So, you know, I mean I I I do think there's a a lot of value here and I I hope and I I believe that there will be some changes, but um but right now I mean you look at the response um that you got last night for Retch Up um for winning a Guidor and and um you saw the excitement on people's faces just to be a part of it too. I I do think And I'm hopeful for the future for sure. Aaron Ross Powell |
| Andy Hoffman | Excellent. Well that's a great place to leave it, Mark. It was amazing to have you here this week. It was really fun. Congratulations on uh on on a great job at the GPHG jury. Mark Koslerich, senior editor at Hodinkee. Thanks for being on the business of watches. |
| Mark Kauzlarich | Thanks for having me. And |
| Andy Hoffman | that's the business of watches for this episode. We hope you enjoyed. Please head on over to Hodinkee.com where you can join the discussion and leave any comments or questions about this episode or the business of watches in general. Who knows? We might even answer your question on a future episode. Thanks for listening and see you next time. |