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The Business of Watches [44] The Organizers Behind The Escapement In Las Vegas And Why They Think It's Time For A New Kind Of Watch Show

Published on Wed, 14 Oct 2026 15:00:00 +0000

Faheem Khan and Neeshu Hajra of The Escapement give us the lowdown on why they moved the gathering to Las Vegas from Abu Dhabi, who is behind the group running the event, and why there is most definitely room for another watch show.

Synopsis

In this episode of The Business of Watches, host Andy Hoffman interviews Fahim Khan (writer of the Substack "Screw Down Crown") and Nishu Hajra (experienced event producer) about their new watch event called The Escapement, scheduled for February 5-7, 2025, in Las Vegas. The event was originally planned for Abu Dhabi but was relocated due to ongoing geopolitical tensions in the Middle East and concerns from brands and attendees.

The founders explain that The Escapement aims to be different from existing watch shows by focusing on storytelling and deep dives into brands' histories and craftsmanship, rather than just displaying products. The event will feature two stages—a main stage for brand presentations and a "Speaker's Corner" for community discussions and panels. With capacity for 5,000 general admission tickets (\(500) and 750 VIP tickets (\)1,750), the event will include activations, watchmaking experiences, retail opportunities, and evening entertainment including comedy shows, concerts, and a charity auction featuring donations from notable brands like François-Paul Journe and Bevert. The organizers emphasize that this is a community-focused event designed specifically for collectors, drawing inspiration from successful fan conventions in other industries like comics and sneakers. While they don't expect profitability in the first year, especially given the costs associated with relocating the event, they believe there's significant demand for this type of collector-centric experience in the watch community.

Transcript

Speaker
Andy Hoffman Welcome to the Business of Watches, the Hodinkee podcast, where we go behind the scenes and talk to the business leaders and executives who are making things tick. I'm your host, Andy Hoffman. This week we are talking to a couple of watch collectors, enthusiasts, and gentlemen behind an upcoming new watch show and watch event. It's called The Escapement. I am joined by Fahim Khan and Nishu Hajra. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me. Welcome to the business of watches. Thanks,
Fahim Khan Andy. Appreciate it. Thank you for having us.
Andy Hoffman Excellent. So let's just start with why does the world need another watch event? Um since I joined Hodinkee uh almost a couple of years ago now, I d seems like there's a watch event on all the time. There's no shortage of gatherings for watch enthusiasts and watch folks. There's no shortage of places for brands to show off their wares. What's the differentiator for the escapement which will be taking place february twenty twenty-seven, fifth to seventh in Las Vegas. Why do we need this?
Nishu Hajra Look, I've produced uh events for a living for a couple of decades now. That's how I've afforded my watch addiction. Um And almost every other community has uh a show dedicated towards their passion. Uh most have multiple. And what I mean by that is comic book collectors have multiple comic cons. You have sneaker heads, they have complex. Car collectors have tons of choices. Uh I mean they do it right with with auto. And what each of these communities have is an annual large format open invitation event that is designed for that passion, for that community specifically. And we have, as you mentioned, a lot of gatherings and we have, you know, Watches and Wonders, an amazing industry event. But when it comes to a community event that's designed specifically for, you know, today's collector that's thought about, you know, their perspective and their engagement and and their experience first. Uh other communities have it. and I think that we're just trying to create one for horology.
Andy Hoffman Fahim, you're the guy behind the sort of anonymous substack screw down crown. Um not anonymous really, but um that is you. Um you have a great following among some very astute uh collectors and industry folks. Tell me what's uh what's your perspective on on why we need the escapement and and and why there is demand for this uh kind of event?
Fahim Khan So yeah, Substack is not
Nishu Hajra anonymous really. I I just uh
Fahim Khan I always started that thing not wanting to it to to have that be about me and more to be about what uh what was being said and the discussions that ensued and I think that largely so far it's it's worked.
Nishu Hajra And in fact, a
Fahim Khan lot of what drives me to believe
Fahim Khan this is going to
Fahim Khan be amazing comes from my experience with Substack and the people in the comment sections and
Fahim Khan if you delve
Fahim Khan into the comments sometimes you'll you'll see a lot of people asking for this type of thing, asking for more substantial uh
Fahim Khan deep dives into things like
Fahim Khan storytelling, into uh history, into
Fahim Khan the why of whatever these watches
Fahim Khan are and how people come around to creating what they create. And I, as one
Fahim Khan person, can only go through so much,
Fahim Khan you know, it in on a weekly basis, covering whatever
Fahim Khan I cover, but I think
Fahim Khan that people would love to hear more from the horse's mouth, as it
Fahim Khan were. And the idea behind
Fahim Khan the escapement is that we
Fahim Khan speak with brands privately as
Fahim Khan the organizers and help
Fahim Khan to arrive at some kind of message
Nishu Hajra and story which people can
Fahim Khan feel is delivering on that substance. It's not just hey, we've we've we've just produced a new thing, it's phenomenal because of these reasons, and you know, good luck, enjoy, go try it on.
Fahim Khan We also attend other shows
Fahim Khan in different formats and we enjoy those shows.
Fahim Khan What we are focused on is doing
Fahim Khan a different kind of show. So yes, it's true that they are uh we are being inundated with lots of watch events and watch shows and so on. But
Fahim Khan for us, this in this
Fahim Khan format hasn't been done before. And
Fahim Khan part of what makes it difficult to do is that it requires
Fahim Khan a lot of attention individually with
Fahim Khan each brand to work through
Fahim Khan the storytelling and what messages they will be delivering and and how they will be delivering it so whether they want to have you know
Fahim Khan people from their community speak or whether they would
Fahim Khan like to speak themselves on behalf of their brand and what it is that they're
Fahim Khan gonna say and that specifically
Fahim Khan is what I do. And I mean, I've already started engaging with you know some brands and I'm gonna continue doing so uh you know in over the next few months. And at the
Fahim Khan end of it, we have decided
Fahim Khan with each brand that this is
Fahim Khan the aspect of your story or your product
Fahim Khan line that you want to highlight or showcase and then going
Fahim Khan through how they will do that in the best
Fahim Khan way and my lens is as a collector.
Fahim Khan So I go, this is what they propose, and
Fahim Khan I say, well, you know, honestly, I wouldn't want to listen to that. I don't think that's interesting. I think
Fahim Khan you could just write that on your website and people could read it themselves
Fahim Khan and that'd be okay. Uh instead, why don't we do it this
Fahim Khan way? That hopefully will give people
Fahim Khan something that they enjoy watching, that they enjoy taking in, in the
Fahim Khan same way that I enjoy listening
Fahim Khan to the podcast you host and you know others like Collective horology and so on. Like I like that because
Fahim Khan it goes more than just
Fahim Khan surface level and gets into the nitty-gritty. And that's the kind of thing I like. And I feel like a lot of people in the
Fahim Khan industry and collectors alike would love to have more of that.
Nishu Hajra And of course, you know, we'll
Andy Hoffman see what works and what doesn't and
Fahim Khan uh take it from there. Yeah, absolutely.
Andy Hoffman and the event is taking place february fifth to seventh in Las Vegas. That wasn't your first choice of venue. Let's talk about, you know, why you've you've moved the event. Uh you're originally going to be in Abu Dhabi, obviously, and and indeed there remain geopolitical tensions and uh an ongoing war in the Middle East. And I guess you had planned to be on the sort of off-year of Dubai watch week. Yeah, talk about that and then talk about I'm interested in hearing about how many people you hope to attend and attract to the event, and then how you make that experience sort of intimate and you know a deep dive and um uh sort of you know uh beyond the headlines or beyond a simple press release or messaging from the brands. I mean how do we do that on a on a mass scale? But let's first talk about, you know, sort of why we're in Vegas.
Fahim Khan Yeah, ultimately I think that we as
Fahim Khan a company have a
Fahim Khan duty of care to our shareholders
Fahim Khan and that's the truth. Uh we thought about it. At the start
Fahim Khan of the war, we felt like this would pass.
Fahim Khan It was meant to be a quick one. Most wars are
Fahim Khan and you know.
Fahim Khan and as it as it progressed, I suppose we found ourselves
Fahim Khan wondering what to do, but
Fahim Khan of course contingency
Fahim Khan planning was underway. I used to work at an energy company where
Fahim Khan I was privy to security briefings and there was talks,
Fahim Khan I guess, early in March that this would be roughly rounded up by
Fahim Khan June. And indeed there was a ceasefire, which I guess held
Fahim Khan until June. And so up to that point we were quite
Fahim Khan confident that everything would fizzle out and things would work out. And then they didn't.
Fahim Khan And in that moment, I suppose
Fahim Khan brands as well started getting nervous. Uh there was there were groups that had corporate travel bans on travel into
Fahim Khan the region which began from March, from February, March, whenever the war started.
Fahim Khan And around just before the
Fahim Khan ceasefire ended, they
Fahim Khan were confident it was gonna be lifted, uh, a boost for us because we were we were sort of our decision to stay was supported, I guess, up to that point. And
Fahim Khan once this ceasefire was broken, we
Fahim Khan realized that at this point we have no certainty over the future, and then brands were now expressing
Fahim Khan concern, and I
Fahim Khan think at least one, and there was a borderline other case where they were withdrawing or or indicating that they want to withdraw. By this
Fahim Khan point we had done contingency planning
Fahim Khan on other locations and it made sense then to move, mainly because even if we had belief that the war would be over by November, th given the nature of how this war started and how it's continued, it's very erratic. the
Fahim Khan volatility comes and goes.
Fahim Khan And if we were to find ourselves much
Fahim Khan closer to the event, which was scheduled to be in uh end of November,
Fahim Khan we would have had to incur a lot more costs in terms of building the
Fahim Khan stands and you know procuring things
Fahim Khan for use on site. And at
Fahim Khan that point, if we had to cancel,
Fahim Khan there would be a lot of collateral damage.
Nishu Hajra Absolutely. And then for me, it was also very much the it was
Fahim Khan the brands and the community that
Nishu Hajra when we got, I think it was in within one week, we got three emails from people that had, you know, quite quickly bought VIP tickets. And no one canceled, but we got three separate inquiries about what is our cancellation policy. And that that that, you know, how many you gotta thinking, you know, if if three people are sending the email, how many people are thinking it but just just not sending the email? Or you know, how many people are are having that thought and and not not wanting to to to come or to buy tickets and just that thinking about that in that week and getting those emails and that cloud of uncertainty that that was just not what we wanted our event to be, you know what I mean, clouded by on the road up to it. This is a community event. It's a celebration of a passion. It should be, you know, not wrought by anxiety or or worry. And so that coupled with, as Fahim said, you know, a couple of brands, you know, calling us and expressing some extreme, you know, hesitancy and and and you know the challenges of travel bands. And
Fahim Khan we were already talk l looking at Vegas
Nishu Hajra because we didn't want this to be an annual thing. And so it was uh a natural fit kind of uh uh to be able to make that transition and one that I personally was not expecting it to go as uh as as well as it did not only with the community, of course, uh, but but with brands and and uh all of our partners that we've uh been interacting with along the way as well. Aaron Ross
Andy Hoffman Powell And let's just stick on that. I mean originally um uh you were gonna be in Abu Dhabi and I mean you know y generally w you know wash events are in Europe, in Switzerland, often in London and Was it important or as part of the vision, the founding vision to be uh in the Middle East or you know, be in non-traditional watchmaking places. Obviously Dubai Watch Week exists, but you know, that's a biannual or every two years um uh kind of event and and it it's still seen as sort of a a growing or developing market in some ways, even though it of obviously has a long history in terms of the uh the industry and important collectors there. But was it important that um that the the first event be held in a non traditional place?
Fahim Khan No, I don't think so at all. We
Nishu Hajra looked at I mean tons
Fahim Khan of venues across the globe when
Nishu Hajra we were before we even landed in in uh in the Middle East, we I mean everywhere from Asia to the US of course, Europe, I could I could tell you all about arenas across their capacity and availability and approximate cost. Um, so no, we we were we were looking for a really good uh host city. And look, it we had
Fahim Khan always planned on on this being a show that
Nishu Hajra that had global legs that traveled at least in part every other year for us as we hopped around the world. And so much like watch collectors are are very much global travelers, uh, and and much like our founding group is spread across the world from, you know, Fahim and people in in the Middle East to to Europe to of course myself and and America. We've always envisioned this to be a a a global experience that that would uh be able to move and transition. Now regarding Abu Dhabi, I personally love the city and I think m the majority of of the founding team does. What they've invested in and the culture and things like the Louvre and and the Guggenheim and and really the infrastructure of the city, they welcomed us with with open arms. And uh when it's right for the community, I I would love to go back. I would absolutely love to go back.
Andy Hoffman And let's talk about, you know, how you intend to sort of create that intimacy and that deep dive. And I mean how many people, you know, can you um accommodate and and you know realistically are you hoping to attract? And then, you know, how are we going to do that with the programming and then we'll talk about all the gr you know brands and big names that you have um uh lineded up. But inde, you know, tell me a bit more about the what you uh can about the what the experience you think will be.
Fahim Khan So I think it's
Fahim Khan important Nietzsche will speak to the design of the facility uh a bit more after this but oh
Nishu Hajra oh will I look
Fahim Khan I I look so so in terms of the layout so we have as you walk in, you walk
Fahim Khan into this arena, and then you can go
Fahim Khan left or right up escalators into the concourse, and immediately you'll have brands there. So similar to
Fahim Khan stands to the ones you might see at a normal
Fahim Khan show. And there's also other bigger brands inside the bowl itself, so the main middle
Fahim Khan area of the arena. But at the front
Fahim Khan of that, there's the main stage. And
Fahim Khan separate to that, on a different level,
Fahim Khan we also have another stage which we are
Fahim Khan calling speakers corner.
Fahim Khan Now, if you think about
Fahim Khan events, we we've all gone to load of events right in our time and typically
Fahim Khan the way it works is you have stands
Fahim Khan all over the place and depending on which event it is, they're all either in one hall
Fahim Khan or you know, like with Dubai Watreek,
Fahim Khan there were stands outside along the outside area, and then inside the one big
Fahim Khan hall there were multiple stands that were
Fahim Khan much smaller and close together, right? And in the end, the expectation is that people
Fahim Khan will arrive and walk around and find
Fahim Khan their way to whichever brands they want to stop at and they would stock there. And then move along at their own pace in their own time and see everything that they want
Fahim Khan to see. And I guess I know that I didn't visit all 90 plus brands at you know Dubai
Fahim Khan Watrik, and I just didn't
Fahim Khan honestly didn't have the time to, even though I was there for multiple days. With our main stage, because it's it's in the middle, everyone walking around the facility
Fahim Khan will at some point encounter the main stage.
Fahim Khan The issue's got a background in broadcast
Fahim Khan and streaming as well, so everything that's produced on the main stage will be professionally produced. So there'll be, you know, directors calling shots from cameras and so on. So we're producing it in that ensuring that brands will have assets to use later. So even if you, Andy, arrive on the day and happen to be, you know, on
Fahim Khan a different floor doing an activation somewhere,
Fahim Khan which I'll get to in a second, you'll still
Fahim Khan be able to watch that delivery of that storytelling experience later. And the brands will also get to deliver that to their audience later on their platform
Fahim Khan So you know the the worry that if
Fahim Khan everybody isn't gonna see that thing on the stage at that time, I don't think that's a worry at all. Now
Fahim Khan there will be some more popular than others,
Fahim Khan I guess, just from you know hype value and the
Fahim Khan way that certain names are bigger than others,
Fahim Khan and that's okay. That's normal. That would be true even if
Fahim Khan it was just stands, you know. And so you
Fahim Khan arrive, you go up, you can see
Fahim Khan the stands, but ultimately you'll be
Fahim Khan in the bowl and you'll move around. No one just
Fahim Khan sits still at any event. And the idea is in this arena there's multiple floors, there's different things going on in each floor. So it's not
Nishu Hajra just brand stands. There's also going to
Fahim Khan be a retail arc. So
Fahim Khan we are in discussions with some retailers, some have confirmed and some haven't. Uh and a lot of brands are working with their retailers to, you know, bring their stand to fruition. So uh depending on which brand it is, some have their retailer involved, some don't. And so at this show you
Fahim Khan could, for example, do a transaction
Fahim Khan with a retailer and buy a watch after you saw it at the stand if they have allocations
Fahim Khan available and so on. That's part of what will be allowed at this
Fahim Khan show, which typically isn't.
Fahim Khan And then beyond that, in between,
Fahim Khan so it's not that it'll just be this area for stands, this area for
Fahim Khan retail. No, we want to have the whole place come alive. So we
Fahim Khan we we often say this term in presentations like a collector's wonderland. So what would you like to do apart
Fahim Khan from the the usual? So example, I'll
Fahim Khan give you one is we we had a conversation with our friend Vasu and YC watch guy, and as you may or may not know, he's like a big basketball aficionado. And so we we may have an activation where we'll have competitive bring out the competitive spirit in in in each other and activate a basketball hoop and they'd compete with him and that'd be just a little fun activation. But more than that, there'll be other more watch f
Fahim Khan watch making focused ones where, you
Fahim Khan know, you could try your hand at uh enameling or you you know th I don't want to spoil the fun and give away every single one. By the way, we have this entire sheet where we're scoring each one based on a few things. So for instance, if you were to do something that takes very long, bearing in mind that we have, you know, five thousand GA tickets and seven hundred and fifty VIP
Fahim Khan tickets, the throughput would be too slow
Fahim Khan and and too low to allow that to be practical to deliver at this sort of event. and
Fahim Khan so we won't do those really slow ones. But it's possible that we'll
Fahim Khan do ones where you you know you have to book in advance. It's not extra money, you don't pay
Fahim Khan extra for it, but it'll be either a raffle
Fahim Khan or first come, first sale thing. We haven't yet decided on the exact mechanism of delivery, but we don't want to just exclude everything because
Fahim Khan ultimately we do want to do this
Fahim Khan in the future and at some point we'll have to figure out how to accommodate slow stuff as well. But you know, bearing in mind that we
Nishu Hajra we're exploring all options, there
Fahim Khan will be some of that too. So anyway,
Fahim Khan the experience of intimacy that you describe
Fahim Khan will be in two ways.
Fahim Khan One, it's about the content. So you'll have topics
Fahim Khan which appeal to some people strongly.
Fahim Khan They'll probably make their way to the stage
Fahim Khan for those events. We'll obviously have a schedule.
Fahim Khan And on the speaker's corner stage, our intention there is so brands that have different sponsorship packages
Fahim Khan will be delivering their messages on the
Fahim Khan main stage because that's part of the deal that they agreed to. And then on the speaker's corner stage, we'll have other things. So, you know, it could
Fahim Khan be the a discussion between people from the community, like
Fahim Khan again, Vasu who who's often on podcasts and I enjoy listening to you speak, I want him to talk about, you know, his experiences with indies. And we have many
Fahim Khan different people lined up to do
Fahim Khan hosting as well as to to participate in panels, people from the community,
Fahim Khan so heads of watch groups, uh people that have
Fahim Khan done collabs, people that are, you know, in
Fahim Khan the industry maybe from a supplier point
Fahim Khan of view, or to speak to other aspects of
Fahim Khan our hobby, which I often
Fahim Khan cover myself on STC, but beyond that, just to get it on stage. And these would be, I I imagine, uh a good analogy would be to say
Fahim Khan live versions of interesting
Fahim Khan podcasts we've all heard uh you know over the years in this hobby.
Nishu Hajra and that's a separate thing as well. So
Fahim Khan you can choose to go to those if you want. And if those are boring and that moment for you and you don't like that topic, you can go to do an activation and then you can make your
Fahim Khan way down to grab a meal and then you
Fahim Khan can find your way back to the main stage because now some watch
Fahim Khan brand that you particularly love is is delivering their keynote. So that's the that's the goal. The
Fahim Khan goal is all over the place there'll be places to to hang out with your your collective friends and to just have conversations. But more than that, it's to give you something to
Fahim Khan do all over, whether it's just listening
Fahim Khan or participating or actually getting hands on.
Andy Hoffman That's the goal. Anish, you I mean you've spent your career um putting on uh shows, trade shows, events like this. What are you finding is, you know, the particular challenge, if anything, in putting on a watch themed and uh watch industry show for watch collectors. I mean, is it exactly the same? Is it uh cookie cutter or is it different from other uh kind of events that you've uh staged in the past?
Nishu Hajra You want to create an environment that is obviously taking the elements that we as watch collectors love, the ability to try and see on watches, layer on, you know, the the story and the narratives and and all of the amazing content and kind of those those experiences that you have at lunch with, you know, uh each other in Geneva Watch Days, et cetera. So making that accessible. And then finding things that, you know, and this is different for each industry, of course, but just finding things that the community is going to be interested in The different activations that we're gonna have around, you know, both the the the more serious ones as well as the more fun ones, the the deep dives into horology. So really, you know, like things that we're we're teaming up with with people like the Foundation Hot Horology, as well as the HSNY, to really bring to bear some of those, you know, kind of more deeper dives into horology proper, let's just say, um, as well as fun
Fahim Khan experiences. and curating in a a mix that, as kind of
Fahim Khan Fahim said, i has
Nishu Hajra multiple layers, you know, we have multiple floors of of uh
Fahim Khan of of the experienced
Nishu Hajra and we're really trying to just look at the lens as a watch collector, think about what would we like? Well, you know, on top of meeting brands, we'd really love if if we had a place where we could hear their stories. And it wasn't just us walking by and struggling to overhear. So that was, you know, kind of the genesis of of of the stages. We're working with these watches and some of them brought in retailers and we thought, you know, it'd be great to to walk away to be able to have a show experience where you could actually leave. You know, we're we're a community of that loves instant gratification. So, you know, we we put effort into making that happen. You know, things like being able to to compete in challenges and go heads up with different watchmakers, you know, that's something that that we thought was was of interest and that we'd like to do. So we're folding that into our event, the VIP experience and and and you know being able to to bid on you know not only amazing timepieces but experiences that you wouldn't otherwise be able to get. Like these are things that we would like to exist and so we're making them exist at our show. That's really kind of the end of it. Um and and in terms of differentials between other industries, I'd say it's always it's always kind of the same approach. It's really trying to understand the community that you're serving, understand the different facets of it, because much like the stage show, you know, there are certain things that we're
Fahim Khan gonna cover on stage that are gonna interest some
Nishu Hajra collectors, and other collectors are gonna say, look, I'm not as interested in finishing, I'm interested in chronometric excellence, and I wanna attend the panels that really kind of speak to that and, you know, ones that talk about, you know, these topics are they're not of interest. And for those people, we just having having other things within the different floors, points of engagement, you know, really things. And again, just like the stage show with the with the activities, some people are gonna pres uh prefer the the very deep dives and and you know, the educational approach to horology. Some people are there to connect with the community and and have fun and and just trying to curate an experience for for everyone. Aaron
Andy Hoffman Powell Absolutely. And when I look at the let's talk about you know the brands and and the speakers and you know who's going to be there that you can confirm at this place. You know, I'm just looking at the list here. Armand Strom, Bevert, uh, Chapik, Daniel Roth, which is, you know, kind of a an independent brand, but part of LVMH. So that's uh interesting. Fleming, Grubeau Force, Gerald Genta, Ming, Roman Gautier, of course, uh Raksheprakshepi, Zeitwinkel. I mean, am I right to think though, you know, we are focusing mainly on on uh independent brands and you know smaller brands and is that by choice or is that the kind of brands that we you know that, that your audience you think wants to interact with and wants to have access to?
Nishu Hajra I'd say that uh anytime you work with bigger groups, it's gonna take them quite a bit longer to to approve different initiatives. You have budgets that are set years in advance. You have uh groups that that require, you know what I mean, uh different levels of approval. and I would say that independents are just naturally a more uh flexible and and quick to respond type of uh of uh of of companies. Layered on top of that, you have the booming surge of interest in independence that is just I mean beyond undeniable, right? So that is it is the zeitgeist of the moment. So when you speak to to collectors' interests, especially with the ones that we're engaging, I think that that is of of huge interest. And then finally, I would say, just being totally you know honest and calling a spade
Fahim Khan a spade, the network
Nishu Hajra that that we especially as the founding team, you know, we have really good relationships with a lot of these brands. And I would say that that whenever you're starting something new, uh turning to some of your immediate friends to support is just very natural. And I would I'm very, very thankful to all the brands that you just you just enumerated and the support that they've given the
Fahim Khan community, this you know, show.
Nishu Hajra Uh for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Hoffman And I I only mentioned um uh some of them certainly. but let's talk about you know, you've created a new entity, the escapement here to do this. I mean I think, you know, we can talk about prices and you have sort of general entry uh or general level t uh tickets and then you have VIP tickets. I think you're aiming for as many as 5,000 uh general entry tickets and 750 VIPs. Who is behind the escapement? You guys are are part of the company. Who owns it and and and why should um people who don't know you through you know personally through wash collecting why should they um trust you to plunk down uh a few hundred bucks to to come see your show and fly to Vegas and and all these things if they don't actually live there.
Nishu Hajra Yeah, great question. Uh so obviously the escapement is uh uh myself, Anish, Heem, uh other collectors that have uh all kind of chipped in.
Andy Hoffman So what Anish is it well that's watching ish quite w well known on uh Instagram indeed, yeah.
Nishu Hajra Um uh fellow collectors uh Ezat and uh a few others uh all kind of came together and wanted to uh to create uh the an event that that didn't otherwise exist. And uh in terms of uh of past knowing us, uh we hope that that that everyone has sees the care and intention that we're dri delivering to the event, the curation that we're bringing to bear, not only with the brands that that uh that we've onboarded, but all of the different content that we're not only uh bringing to bear in terms of uh brand content, but just collector engagement as well past that. Uh also bear in mind that you're buying tickets. Uh all of your tickets are uh fully protected by AXS. So you're buying tickets from AXS. We don't even get the ticket revenue until after the event. And um yeah, we're we're doing this because we believe in it. We believe that this should exist and um we're trying to create something special for the community.
Andy Hoffman Absolutely. And um remind us of the prices that uh you're asking for this three-day event for people and how does it work? And how did you come to the you know, the um how did you decide your pricing? I ask uh watch brands all the time, how do you how do you decide that this watch is worth uh five thousand or ten thousand or a hundred thousand francs. So um how did you decide uh your ticket prices and what are they?
Fahim Khan Our GA ticket is five hundred dollars
Nishu Hajra plus taxes and fees. So our prices don't include obviously the venue fees and the state taxes. Those get automatically added uh via the the AXS system, actually. Our GA as I mentioned is 500. Our standard VIP is 1$750. And how did we establish those prices? We thought about the best deal that we could give to collectors for a first-year experience. We were very intentional in trying to really provide value in terms of what you're getting at the different tier levels. And we feel confident uh that yeah, we're delivering more than a collector can get through any other experien Aaron Powell
Fahim Khan I think it's important to note that we haven't yet at all touched on the nighttime experiences. And so talking about the value being delivered, it's important to frame that appropriately.
Andy Hoffman And what can we confirm in terms of um uh who that uh
Nishu Hajra Yeah. So I guess covering our three nighttime events. So the first one for VIPs only is Friday night at the win from six to eleven. Essentially, you're going to start off the night with kind of cocktails, food, kind of the hospitality
Fahim Khan that that the win is is is known for.
Andy Hoffman VIP treatment. Yeah,
Nishu Hajra that win VIP treatment. Then you're going to have, you know, some entertainment, singers, collector discussion. But the main event of that night is gonna be uh our charity auction. We have incredible brands who are putting up, as I mentioned, not only time pieces, but but experiences too. Francois Paul has uh generously agreed to donate a clock uh that is going to
Andy Hoffman Francois Paul uh has a last name and it's Jorne I believe
Nishu Hajra that's right. Francois Paul Jorn has agreed to sign a clock uh where um it's going to be uh not only sign but a a world clock that's auctioned off in support of uh of charities. We're gonna be teaming up to to support not only watchmaking but also uh uh pediatric cancer and um be ver is looking at throwing uh uh uh an all-expenses paid trip to geneva we would cover the flight be ver would cover from from geneva reception, uh experiences and items that would otherwise be challenging for the average person to get or to to experience. And then after the charity auction of around I'd say twenty, fifteen to twenty uh different items, we're gonna wrap the uh the indoor activities and retire out to they have an amazing pavilion in lawn. It's where they hold their auto events at the win. And we're gonna retire outside for for cigars and
Fahim Khan uh and whiskey. Excellent. Uh have
Andy Hoffman you just on the auction uh do you have an auction like a auction partner there? Have we determined uh is there an auction house who will do
Nishu Hajra that?, we have been uh speaking with Phillips, uh still confirming things, so I don't want to uh to pre-commit them, Paul, if you're listening. Um but um no, they've been
Fahim Khan extremely receptive of of uh of the uh
Nishu Hajra idea and the initiative. They're being extremely generous with some of their their uh offerings. So we're just buttoning up all of that and um we'll be confirming that on our website very shortly.
Andy Hoffman Very good. So um potentially uh Phillips is the auction partner, but not uh yet confirmed. And then let's talk about the entertainment that you know you have uh planned for um the other evenings and you know how you know one chooses or tries to retain uh entertainment for watch collectors. Watch you know, watch collectors, as you know, are they a pretty diverse group or or are they? what what what kind of entertainment do they want to see?
Nishu Hajra I mean we we again just kind of looked at it from the collector lens. So the first night at T Mobile is comedy night. For Abu Dhabi we entertained Andrew Schultz. We had already paid him his deposit. We are currently checking his schedule right now, but uh we have an amazing backup that also has uh experienced people will know them for their Netflix specialists as well.
Andy Hoffman Okay. And uh yeah, so
Nishu Hajra it'll be someone that has experience on global stages, you know, uh interacting with global communities and putting on a good show that we can all just have a good time at. That's really what these community events. And this isn't this isn't new, by the way. You have you have comic cons that have been doing this for years and years and years. You have auto we're putting on a concert for our
Fahim Khan second night. You know, you have auto uh
Nishu Hajra events that have featured, you know, performances and concerts uh for for decades. I mean, before I even got
Fahim Khan into events, I'm sure they were doing it.
Nishu Hajra And so really these community events, uh, from the comedy night
Fahim Khan the first night to the concert the second night,
Nishu Hajra uh, and it and the second night were also going to feature the Ruby Awards. So uh that is a new craft award that is really focused on
Fahim Khan having different
Nishu Hajra awards that are judged by experts. Uh it's independent from the escapement. It's being run by the Ruby Foundation. De Myar friend Mike Caps uh is at the helm of it. Uh and we believe in it. We believe in the initiative. We like the idea of having a finishing award that's that's judged by experts in finishing, having a movement design award
Fahim Khan that has, you know, movement design experts
Nishu Hajra that are that are doing the judging. And so that'll be featured on Sunday night, as well as uh a concert with Dream House, uh, which we're extremely excited about. And we have a special guest of performance that uh we're also looking forward to announcing once contracts are all signed and
Fahim Khan dotted. Excellent. And you mentioned
Andy Hoffman other um well known events and uh gatherings of um of enthusiasts and and and hobbyists and collectors for you know other communities like comic con etc and there's l there's so many comic cons these days there's it's it's a whole community unto itself. Do we think are we confident that the watch industry and you know those who are the are watch collectors, watch enthusiasts, those interested in watches, you know, are there enough people to stage an event of this size? Um, I'm I'm not sure. I I don't know. Um uh obviously, you know, we have tens of thousands of people who go to Watches and Wonders every year, over twenty thousand at Dubai Watch Week. What gives you the confidence that there is a market for this uh event?
Fahim Khan The community exists. We're part of it. I mean I can tell you that for
Nishu Hajra for for certain. Now in terms of building an event that's worthy of coming to, that's our job. And uh I can tell you this is gonna be like nothing anyone else has seen. And those who don't uh choose to attend it year one, I'm sure will regret it and choose to attend it year two. And that is uh I mean how lots of events, you know, get built. Um now in terms of our bar for success, it's a far cry from twenty thousand in in Dubai. It's fractional. And so, you know, success for us is is very realistic when we set, you know, a more realistic goal. Uh and so that's what we've been been trying to do this entire time. Yeah,
Andy Hoffman Fahim, I'm I'm interested to hear from you. I mean we you know um, you've grown your your substacks, Screwdown Crown and King Flum um uh quite substantially, but you know, what gives you the confidence that um this community of uh watch enthusiasts and collectors is uh
Fahim Khan Oh I mean y you said it right uh it it's uh
Fahim Khan I in my small bubble have grown substantially just off the back of
Nishu Hajra my own uh efforts,
Fahim Khan and that's just me, one guy. Now this, we're talking about
Fahim Khan the biggest watch market in the world.
Andy Hoffman Being the US. Yeah,
Fahim Khan that's right. And we're
Fahim Khan talking about an area so a
Fahim Khan hobby leth I don't ev I don't even want to call it a niche anymore, but in our hobby there's just ever since I I suppose you could say twenty twenty, twenty twenty one around there, everything's
Fahim Khan just grown. You've seen how many
Fahim Khan new m smaller brands are launched every other week. Uh
Fahim Khan people talk about how many watch shows. I
Fahim Khan mean, there's ten times as many watch brands that are launching every other week. and so for us, how do you separate
Fahim Khan uh the signal from the noise? Uh we, part of our
Fahim Khan brand pillars is curation. And so you can have big shows that have
Fahim Khan hundred odd brands and they're just trying a packet
Fahim Khan full of as many brands as the as they
Fahim Khan can. And that's cool. There's a place for that.
Fahim Khan All of these newcomers need a place to to showcase their wares and to and for for enthusiasts to discover them. And then as they grow and as they exist for longer, they'll have
Fahim Khan their own stories to tell. And there's
Fahim Khan a place now for them to tell those stories. So by the way, coming back, this is not a tangent, it's actually coming back to an earlier question of yours when we were talking about brands and how we choose brands. Whether we
Fahim Khan we were only deliberately focusing on
Fahim Khan indies, no, the answer is no. In fact, Nishu alluded to this, but uh to add more colour. We have in fact engaged with the
Fahim Khan biggest brands. Some of them actually
Fahim Khan love this. They also are wondering how the heck they can tell their very long and
Fahim Khan illustrious stories to to to
Fahim Khan collectors. There's no easy way for them to do that. Of course it takes them time and I'm pretty sure
Nishu Hajra that in our second uh event
Fahim Khan we will more than likely have a big name brand. I don't want to name names
Andy Hoffman pressure. Yes, either that
Fahim Khan or or independently huge companies. Or independently. And by the way, uh uh since we moved to the
Fahim Khan US. No,
Fahim Khan well uh Yeah,
Nishu Hajra keep guessing. I like that. no. no,
Fahim Khan don't don't. We don't listen. we wanna be honorable in how we approach this. We aren't trying to pressure anyone to do anything. But in the end,
Fahim Khan right now, having moved to the US,
Fahim Khan there's been a ton of new interest from from brands who are not able to or willing to commit to Abu Dhabi. They are now actually very keen. And there's at least three really popular
Fahim Khan good names that are about to be public
Fahim Khan that we essentially are just waiting for paperwork. And so to your point, maybe in fact one of those will definitely answer the question of are we only limiting ourselves to small indies? The answer is no. And beyond that, the of the brands you see right now, a lot of people I've noticed in in group chats or online are like,
Nishu Hajra oh well, you know, there's not that many brands
Fahim Khan and you know, what's the point?
Fahim Khan I think that you have to realize
Fahim Khan that the the logistical nightmare of moving from one country to another, which is re-signing of contracts and re-get
Fahim Khan and r seeking new approvals from leaders and it's not
Fahim Khan as not every company is as agile as, you know, say Ming where you know Pranice can pull, you know, Ming himself and they have a little chat and decide. and and so y that that's easy for them, he was able to say on the day when we told him, he was like, Yep, I'm in.
Fahim Khan Simple as that. Whereas others, honestly,
Fahim Khan since we announced, we've been in talks
Fahim Khan and mostly it's positive and they are super
Fahim Khan keen and they just have to wait for you know the right people to you know sign on the dotted line. And so we will do that. We will wait. But as
Fahim Khan of now, we couldn't wait any longer to get the complete list. So we went with what
Fahim Khan we had confirmed and we'll continue to announce new brands as they join. So ultimately then, what makes me sure that there's enough appetite for
Fahim Khan such an event? I guess
Fahim Khan we'll find out, right? I just I I don't see how it can't be
Fahim Khan uh as as appealing to to the enthusiast community who I am engaged with almost
Fahim Khan daily through multiple platforms and I know that there's an appetite and a desire from the
Fahim Khan people I engage with to come to this uh
Fahim Khan which they've expressed in the form of buying tickets, right? Yeah. and so again, I what I see is is some data, it's not all the data. And I feel like a lot of the time with these
Fahim Khan things, because it's a community event, you need to wait for the snowballs to form. You have a few people that go and they know one guy and convince him to go, but he knows two other guys and
Fahim Khan then he convinces them and by by,
Fahim Khan you know, two, three weeks down the line, I mean we've only been s on sale for a week, right? So if you think about a month from now, people planning, okay, what are they gonna do, by then more people will have
Fahim Khan you know, decided to go and their
Fahim Khan friend circle expands further.
Fahim Khan And I feel like that's that's
Fahim Khan how it grows. Because it's a community event, you need more and more people in the community to slowly adopt and to see the value and to, you know, understand what we're trying to deliver. And that's something that we have already noted down as our homework is clarify why is this worth paying for? I mean, some people
Fahim Khan are so they list a bunch
Fahim Khan of watch shows and say it's all free. Uh part of the setting of the price of five hundred was to say, look, you do get two shows, which you don't get anywhere else. You get to do all these
Fahim Khan activations inside, which cost us money
Fahim Khan to put up and you get to do it for free. If you were to go do a class at HSNY, that'll cost
Fahim Khan you money, you know, like you don't expect
Fahim Khan to do all of this stuff for free anywhere
Nishu Hajra else. And here the only problem
Fahim Khan we have as a new event is that
Nishu Hajra we like we keep saying this hasn't
Fahim Khan been done before, and as a result,
Fahim Khan people are struggling to figure out what to compare it to because they don't know, and all they know is going to free events, walking around basically large boutiques, checking out watches and leaving. This is not that. This is for people to come, to stay, to be engaged, to get to do things that otherwise would
Fahim Khan not be free, but now are covered in the price
Fahim Khan of your ticket. And ultimately then, after the fact,
Fahim Khan it'll be easy to say, Oh, okay, well,
Fahim Khan that that'll be a fair time to judge whether it was
Fahim Khan worth the money or not. But prior to
Fahim Khan the event, that's our struggle, right? We having no B-roll, no footage of the event, you know, after the fact. Event two will be a lot easier
Fahim Khan because we can then show people that this
Fahim Khan is what it was like. and and people word of mouth will be like, yes, we enjoyed doing these things. Maybe these things weren't so fun and we can
Fahim Khan change those events. But in the end, that's
Fahim Khan our homework right now, is to figure out how to communicate a vision without having ever done it in a for
Fahim Khan this audience before. I wonder um uh
Andy Hoffman you know, from both your perspective as collectors and you know part of the watch community and having your own watch communities, is this event, you know, about access to these brands and the people behind the brands and their stories, or is it about access to a community and that community and and and bringing people together with similar interests, you know, I wonder if if if those you know two things are you know part of your your mandate and your objective here and I pr you know, but tell me um if there's one or the other that's that's that's driving you more?
Fahim Khan Both. I think it's it's it's both.
Fahim Khan and remember, a lot of the time, you
Fahim Khan you will have seen, you know, from the WhatsApp chats that that
Fahim Khan that you're in as well,
Fahim Khan people have stories to tell from
Fahim Khan their own experiences with brands,
Fahim Khan and there are lots of others who have had zero exposure to that same brand. And even
Fahim Khan in the format of a WhatsApp group,
Fahim Khan right, you have people that learn of something from somebody else just via texts and via photos and one guy's account
Fahim Khan of the story and their curiosity is piqued enough to
Fahim Khan find out more. And once that happens, that's one successful step for that new guy to go closer to the brand.
Fahim Khan In our event, that's
Fahim Khan all on steroids. You have the storytelling, the appeal is formed on the spot, you then get to go meet the brand and maybe even go buy the watch from the retailer all in one all in one day, right? so it's absolutely both because the the community aspect of people meeting up with people they may have spoken to online
Fahim Khan or on Instagram and have never seen before.
Fahim Khan So you you get I've I've experienced this a lot at Dubai Watch Week, right? I'd meet up with people that I would otherwise never meet up with, and then you get to share stories and you talk about each other's watches and even mean may not be the
Fahim Khan one they're wearing that day, but they're like, well, you have to
Fahim Khan check out this brand. It's happened to me. They're like, go to
Fahim Khan this stand, see this brand, and that would force me to go there. And so the community
Fahim Khan aspect drives what brands want. And ultimately,
Fahim Khan brands, I know by speaking to all of them
Fahim Khan myself, that some of them struggle with actually delivering the story to enough people. Like they they can do it if they invite people over to their
Fahim Khan manufacturer and have a one-on-one session where they can lay it all out and and show
Fahim Khan them. But once
Fahim Khan they're in a a a big event setting, how do they do it? So
Fahim Khan this is why we have the main stage. So they can do
Fahim Khan that in a in a way that's curated and that's thoughtful and they can then deliver that to the
Fahim Khan people in a way that they want it to be delivered but on scale
Andy Hoffman and that'll lead them then to converting
Fahim Khan more. And if someone sees a talk
Fahim Khan and someone else misses it, they'll be like, well,
Fahim Khan did you see that talk? And they go, no.
Fahim Khan Well, now you can watch it later and you can catch up on it. And after you've done that, you may
Fahim Khan have your curiosity peaked as the way you and
Fahim Khan I might have had on.
Nishu Hajra I I think that you need to focus on both. I don't think you ever let one completely override the other. I think that you just need to to make sure that the marriage is is well thought out.
Andy Hoffman For sure. For sure. And you know, yeah, tickets have been on sale for a week. What can you tell me about what kind of interests you've seen so far? Are you are you where you want to be and what should we look forward to in terms of you know ramping up towards the event and and um trying to drive more people and then and then also uh that five hundred dollar general admission ticket gets you access to um uh most of the events for the weekend and the and the main show, but it doesn't get you your hotel or flight there. Um is there anything you're doing with accommodation um uh for the event?
Fahim Khan Yes, we are getting hotel blocks for
Nishu Hajra our GSA, for our VIPs, uh also of course our exhibitors as well. Uh VIPs are confirmed at the WIN. Um we'll have links out for them very presently. They're generating them. Our GA Hotel will be confirmed, I think, uh by the end of this week. Uh and then shortly thereafter, just keep checking our websites for uh for the links to those negotiated rates uh as well. In terms of ticket sales,
Fahim Khan VIP has exceeded all of our
Nishu Hajra expectations, to be honest with you. We sold a hundred early bird tickets in like three and a half hours, which ruffled some feathers, to be perfectly honest with
Fahim Khan you. People were feeling is
Nishu Hajra people were they they got the email, our early bread obviously went out to to registrants of of of people that had that had uh signed up online. And they would check. So a couple of people checked in the morning and uh and then they went back, I guess, to purchase later on in the afternoon. And they thought that we had dynamic pricing because uh all of a sudden the the just the early bird sold out, man. Like that's that's just what happened. VIP tickets have been on sale for over a week and we're we're over forty percent sold out. Uh and remember we only have seven hundred and fifty VIP tickets. So that is going extremely well with minimal marketing. GA, you know, that's a bigger pool that that that's uh that's 5,000 tickets. We are definitely not at 40%, just being honest with you. Uh but a large of a large chunk of our GA drive and marketing plan, as Fahim mentioned, is providing that clarity. and really, you know, that that's something that that we're we're looking at at really ramping up, including a heavy engagement plan with watch clubs, which is coming in the the following weeks. And actually this podcast is a great way to to warm up that initiative. We are, if there's a you know, watch clubs that are listening, do reach out to to us via email uh or on our website, info at the escapement.com uh to talk about partnership. But yeah, ticket sales are going extremely well. Uh VIP, as I mentioned, has exceeded expectations and GA is tracking with uh where we expected to be.
Andy Hoffman And are you trying to make money with this event? Obviously brands will be um funding their appearance and I pr I presume they are paying you fees to be there. How does it work? and indeed are you aiming to be profitable or just get this one uh done and then uh and then go from there?
Nishu Hajra We are not looking to be profitable year one. I don't think that um most events do expect to be profitable their first year out. And um we're looking to build a special experience, something that we think should exist. And uh and then yeah, if it develops into something
Fahim Khan profitable later on, amazing.
Andy Hoffman Fahim, anything any you know you're you're a man who's uh worked in business for his uh his whole career. Yeah, I mean it it it can one make money from this. I mean this is this is you know the whole point of of uh of this podcast. There's l every you know the those who like watches tend to
Fahim Khan Yeah, that it is, man. I remember
Fahim Khan we have the unfortunate circumstance of having to move our event. So it was already a difficult task to do a
Fahim Khan first time event to begin
Fahim Khan with. And then, you know, before
Fahim Khan we even had a chance to do our event, we had to move the event and
Fahim Khan that had alone its own associated costs, which are effectively sunk costs. Um very little of that can be leveraged for future
Fahim Khan use even at a second event because there was
Fahim Khan a lot of PR, there was a lot of other spend you, know de,posits paid
Nishu Hajra for venues, et cetera. And
Fahim Khan so that alone is
Fahim Khan getting us, you know,
Fahim Khan twenty feet behind the starting line,
Fahim Khan as it were, for the eventas in Veg.
Fahim Khan So from a business point of view,
Fahim Khan strictly speaking, I think if
Fahim Khan we even broke even, that would be like
Fahim Khan an insane achievement. And I don't think that's unusual for us now, given where we started and where we are now. But I think honestly I'm amazed at where we are right
Fahim Khan now uh given what we've
Fahim Khan just been through and I think it's a testament to I s I think Nishu's experience, right? He's done this before, so a lot of this is I guess normal in the events industry. Like changing venues and so I don't know.
Andy Hoffman no, no, no, no. Hold on, let me global
Nishu Hajra wars. Uh the r no no no no so do not
Fahim Khan confuse this experience with
Nishu Hajra normalcy and events to be to
Fahim Khan be very clear. And I want to
Nishu Hajra just bolt onto that. This has been unlike any endeavor that I have ever embarked on in my life with uh obviously, you know, the the the situation in in the Middle East is is a huge thing. But also just, you know, mixing passion that that
Fahim Khan you hold so deeply with business,
Nishu Hajra uh uh having to to to tell friends like, hey, you know, like I really can't do what you want because it's literally going to cost me too much money. Like I will be paying for for your participation at that
Fahim Khan point in time. and it it's
Nishu Hajra it's telling friends the the real truth. And then, you know, you you move from Abu Dhabi to Vegas where just cost centers are dramatically different and having to deliver just the reality of what this is to to everyone. It's um yeah. It's been an adventure. It's been an adventure, but it's been unlike an abnormal to anything that I've ever
Fahim Khan I've ever I've ever been part of before for sure.
Andy Hoffman Well that's uh that's interesting and and indeed that's what makes uh the whole watch industry and the watch community different. Gentlemen, uh I think we've uh we'll have to leave it there, but Fahim Khan. Nishu Hadra, thank you very much uh for joining us on the business of watches and we look forward to the event of the escapement February 5th to 7th in Las Vegas.
Nishu Hajra Appreciate you. Thank you for having us. And
Andy Hoffman that's the business of watches for this episode. We hope you enjoyed. Please head on over to Hodinkee.com where you can join the discussion and leave any comments or questions about this episode or the business of watches in general. Who knows? We might even answer your question on a future episode. Thanks for listening and see you next time.