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The Business of Watches [41] Czapek & Cie. Chief Executive Officer And Co-Founder Xavier de Roquemaurel

Published on Wed, 23 Sep 2026 15:00:00 +0000

Strap in for an in-depth discussion on the decade-long adventure that the revived Czapek brand has driven. Xavier de Roquemaurel discloses the highlights, the dark periods, and where he hopes to take the historic independent marque next.

Synopsis

In this episode of The Business of Watches podcast, the host interviews Xavier de Roquemaurel, CEO and co-founder of Czapek, at the brand's new boutique in Geneva on the Quai de Bergues—a location with historic significance to the original watchmaker François Czapek. Xavier shares the fascinating history of François Czapek, a 19th-century Bohemian watchmaker who partnered with Antoine Patek before they eventually parted ways, with Patek going on to co-found Patek Philippe.

Xavier recounts his unconventional path to watchmaking, including his background in various industries like Mars, L'Oréal, and Loewe, and how losing his job became a catalyst for entrepreneurship. He explains how Czapek was relaunched in 2015 through an innovative equity crowdfunding campaign that raised approximately 5-6 million Swiss francs from 250 shareholders across 30-40 nationalities. The conversation covers the company's dramatic growth—from 88 watches in their first year to managing an order book of 3,000 pieces during the pandemic boom—and Xavier's near-fatal Type A aortic dissection that forced rapid delegation and company evolution. Today, Czapek produces around 1,000 watches annually, has expanded manufacturing capabilities to produce 50% of components in-house, and maintains unique shareholder engagement including annual share trading windows and advisory boards that help shape product strategy.

Transcript

Speaker
Host/Interviewer Welcome to the business of watches, the Ho Dinky podcast where we go behind the scenes and talk to the executives and the leaders making things tick. Today we are in Geneva. We are on the Quay de Berg fittingly, and we are at Chapek's new boutique, its new store, its new magazine, and I am joined by the CEO and co-founder of uh of Chapek, Xavier de Roch Morel.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Fantastic. You nailed it.
Host/Interviewer That's the way to say it. I know it's
Xavier de Roquemaurel a challenge. Thank you, Xavier. Hello everyone. Very happy to be with you. You have uh Zombie Xavier live.
Host/Interviewer Indeed. Zombie because it's
Xavier de Roquemaurel only two days after uh Geneva Watch Days and there was no break. So I worked yesterday at the manufacture because this is the heart, this is the start. And today I'm at uh the store in Geneva.
Host/Interviewer Excellent. And so yes, we are at Ankedeberg and there is a great historic tie back to Chapic and and the brand and its history. Yeah, why is it a you know, ten years on with the brand? It's um it's great and it's an accomplishment for you to be back here on the K de Bergk. Tal about uh that
Xavier de Roquemaurel it is the key element. It took me a week to understand it. Because I was like, you know, everybody is very elogious on on on on the boutique. Why is that? I mean, we've been working that every detail. It's 18 months of work. And I have been so much inside it, upside down that I don't see anymore the beauty of it and and uh but I know it's nice, it's beautiful, but why it's so elogious? And then I understood because of the logic that we have followed, because of the tribute we make to Franco Chapek. Because it's as if really he was alive. And that we try to not well we continue on the track that we have we have taken since the beginning to be true to him, to be true to watchmaking, to be true to authorry, to be true to collectors, to be true to everyone who jumps in that uh train or
Host/Interviewer in that boat or in that spaceship,
Xavier de Roquemaurel name it the way you want, and have that dream of continuing of a journey that is a never-ending journey, and that is inviting us every day to invent, to create, to discover. That's the journey we are on, and it's a it's a journey that uh has this store as a milestone, because this is where the cabinetier were.
Host/Interviewer Yes. And it's the opportunity to explain
Xavier de Roquemaurel to everyone what it was like then.
Host/Interviewer And so let's talk about that history. I mean, this is a brand that was sort of revived, restarted by you. Uh you're a French born uh businessman. You w worked in many other uh sort of factors elements uh in the business world before coming to um Swiss watches. So talk about um who uh Francois uh Chapek was and and how we restarted the brand and the links to uh here in K de Berg.
Xavier de Roquemaurel This was actually an advantage in watchmaking to not be neither a watchmaker, uh a constructor, to be uh not even a designer, to be a sort of a uh uh unexpected element. Yes
Host/Interviewer in the recipe that makes the
Xavier de Roquemaurel recipe become special. We can come back on that. So I had worked in different sectors, as you have understood. And uh probably I mean working at Mars, working at L'Oreal were excellent elements to build my uh my knowledge and my approach because they are so opposed the two of them.
Host/Interviewer Mm-hmm. So it's very interesting to see
Xavier de Roquemaurel how two groups which are opposed can achieve different types of successes. And then I went back to school in Barcelona, learned the Louvian language, discovered that learning language was not impossible. And I worked working for Luevi and here is where I probably got an infusion of uh learning how to use creativity in your mindsets, recognizing that I loved beauty since the beginning and that was my my my my attraction, my my driver, my my motivation. and craftsmanship. So the the the fact of creating or helping people to create with their own hands and orchestrating that. I think I I was also marked when I studied my studies by the story of uh Pedro and Augustin Almodovar.
Host/Interviewer Okay. Where Pedro is a genius that
Xavier de Roquemaurel is in the front side, you know, the director of the movie.
Host/Interviewer Yeah, the film. And Augustine is in the back,
Xavier de Roquemaurel helping uh Pedro to to create. and I I I felt that was my my my job to be Augustin somehow. To be in the back and help designers, help constructors help uh uh uh watchmakers to achieve their dream. You know that's uh that things that that's that's what that was that's I was attracted by that idea.
Host/Interviewer Indeed. And I was always a big fan
Xavier de Roquemaurel of Pedro Modovar so I that's cool. I I I I I I liked it even more for for that reason. So in Lueve, I had the chance to be product manager and learn how you really rethink the product from the angle of how the market is going. What is the new silhouette that is proposed in the lat last fashion show? How much that involves us into changing our designs and into uh thinking the future differently? So I do a lot of traveling as every CEO does, but I try to always infuse one day of culture visits uh in every trip. So not just not like meetings, business meetings uh to really go deep into what's going on in in that city
Host/Interviewer mm right now. what's
Xavier de Roquemaurel happening? What are the trends? And I love to spend time in Izitan for example or other other places in Japan. I love to spend time uh in in New York, in in other areas. I mean you can learn everywhere. But big cities tend to approach to attract people who set trends or discover trends and this is where you can feel the pulse. Interesting. What is very interesting for example we had a big surprise with our our uh uh one of our latest release in uh in August,
Host/Interviewer yes, the transparency is
Xavier de Roquemaurel blue, which was sold out in five days. 38 pieces, so it's not nothing. Not
Host/Interviewer in significant pieces, it's a significant
Xavier de Roquemaurel number, and and five A's is very short today.
Host/Interviewer Yes. And that watch is funny
Xavier de Roquemaurel because it's the sister of a watch that we launched two years before
Host/Interviewer in Green. Yes. The Viridian Green. Yes.
Xavier de Roquemaurel And the Viridian Green was a was a question mark watch.
Host/Interviewer Everybody loved it, nobody was buying it. We
Xavier de Roquemaurel didn't understand. We all thought it's because the crisis has started and people can start to become cautious. And now I'm starting to think the Virgin Green was too advanced on its time. And right now, if you look at the creations that are popping a little bit, you see more and more sapphire dials,
Host/Interviewer right? More and more effect of transparencies,
Xavier de Roquemaurel but also shadow at the same time. So it's not clear. It's not full if you want full watch porn and you see everything. But you have some some touches of uh the dial is reappearing in a soft and uh light way.
Host/Interviewer Indeed. It's a veil that
Xavier de Roquemaurel is uh made of uh transparent mousselin, for example, is something that that that that highlights the the movement without showing much of it. Okay, so it's interesting. Without
Host/Interviewer showing all of it. No, without showing all of it. So
Xavier de Roquemaurel you see there is a a question of of trend and and and and for us it's great because we have very soon a release that this will be happening in New York.
Host/Interviewer Okay. For watch time New York,
Xavier de Roquemaurel an important watch with another sapphire glass that will be semi-transparent, revealing beauties.
Host/Interviewer Super. Well, yeah, I mean you continue to innovate and and surprise and intrigue and and that is the uh that is the uh mandate of a brand.
Xavier de Roquemaurel But you wanted me to explain a little bit the beginnings, the
Host/Interviewer history, yeah, and why Chapek and and who Chepek was and that link to Patek Phili
Xavier de Roquemaurel so Chapek, because the 10 years anniversary gave us the opportunity to uh deep dive into the history. And um 10 years gave us also the time to make a network of people willing to help in that deep dive, because you need the researchers. And we found a guy called Benjamin Chapla,
Host/Interviewer a Polish guy who was in love with the story
Xavier de Roquemaurel and uh and he said I'm gonna do uh anyway uh a memoir, a thesis on that s on that matter. So uh I'm gonna I'm gonna search everywhere in Czech Republic and in Poland to to understand the story. And he he gave us a lot of keys that we didn't had before, a lot of findings uh that that that we didn't knew. We had everything being reviewed by Pierre Donzé, who is an official historian based in
Host/Interviewer Osaio. Based in Japan. Yeah.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Based in Japan, university teacher, wrote an excellent book on Rolex.
Host/Interviewer Yes, he's been a guest on the on the podcast.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Okay, so it's very interesting. And uh and we discovered that we somehow followed the same track as as as as Rolex and Egler when we started Chapek. We didn't knew I didn't knew that. So I I learned a lot of things. I knew they were the best the kings of pricing and I got the confirmation by reading the book. But anyway, let's come back to Czapek. So uh Chapek was born in Semice in the Czech Republic, the kingdom of Bohemia, exactly, at that time. And learn he was not the firstborn, he was secondborn. So the farm of his parents was to be given to his older brother and he was to find a proper job to have a way of living. And so he was sent to learn watchmaking in Strelen, which was at the border between Poland, uh Germany and Czech Republic. Right. And um he learned the mastering of uh of watchmaking with some great clockmasters, actually. There was more clock made in than watches. Of course. And then he moved to uh Warsaw
Host/Interviewer in Poland. Where he was a journeyman
Xavier de Roquemaurel and working making watches repairing watches uh having his own sort of independent watchmaker uh life no and as a journeyman he was requested or as an independent worker uh business person also. He was asked to defend the city against the Russians who were invading the east of Europe for the not the first and not the last time. It's a practice. Right. They were practicing. And uh he fought against the Russians in in the in a battle called the Varzevianka in uh in in eighteen uh 20 uh 30, 29, 30, 31. And he moved to uh at the end of uh of this uh defeat uh because it ended up in a bloodbath he moved to geneva and registered as a watchmaker. So he was already a watchmaker. And there he met a man that was very important for the continuation of the story, which is called Mo. and then he met another man called Antoine Patek. Yes. And he introduced these two guys to watch making and to what he was doing. And together they decided to make a first company in eighteen thirty nine and this company was called uh Patek Chapek and Company where Moreau was company. And that was uh the beginning of another company that you cited, but you know according to uh the Swiss law I cannot cite them.
Host/Interviewer I see. Yes. Yes. I can only
Xavier de Roquemaurel speak about the past or about people.
Host/Interviewer Right. But uh but I'm limited.
Xavier de Roquemaurel So it was a six year contract. And at the end of the six years there was some tension between the two men, where Antoine Patek was willing to have Chapek working more at his bench and Chapek was willing to be m travelling more uh to uh different places inside uh continental Europe.
Host/Interviewer Right. So at the end of the sixties well they
Xavier de Roquemaurel part ways and Patek will Antoine Dorbert Patek will
Host/Interviewer went on to create anot anherother company.
Xavier de Roquemaurel company. Taking the legacy of the first one. So you you see that these uh this is a continuity. And uh Chapek restarted from zero uh with a new partner called Guzebsky, who was a man very important for the Polish cause. And the two of them created Chapek and Company. We have to make a slight parenthesis on the Polish cause or a slight uh uh uh in description. Poland for 123 years ceased to exist.
Host/Interviewer Right it was invaded
Xavier de Roquemaurel in uh 1795 and it was split in three between three giants, you know, the Austrians, the Germans, the Prussians, and the Russians. Because Poland was extremely wealthy and flat. So hard to defend.
Host/Interviewer Indeed. Wealth. Not like Switzerland. Yeah.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Very interestingly, the the the wealth of Poland was created by an extremely interesting integration of the Jews into the business and into the the power. Without giving them so much power but having them as becoming, if you want, the accountants of the country. So it's it's it's very uh very very interesting uh thing that made that it was named the second uh Ter Promis. Yes. Okay, Promise Land.
Host/Interviewer Yes. Very interestingly. So
Xavier de Roquemaurel they were invaded and Czapek never could become Polish.
Host/Interviewer Right. We don't know if he
Xavier de Roquemaurel would have become Polish if he had had. If he had had to give up his his uh Bohemian passport.
Host/Interviewer Right. So we let's not make
Xavier de Roquemaurel inference. We know he changed slightly the spelling of his name to make it easier to pronounce in uh in Poland
Host/Interviewer and in Switzerland. Yes. By writing
Xavier de Roquemaurel C Z A P E K, which is a a police spelling. Chapek.
Host/Interviewer Exactly. And uh in
Xavier de Roquemaurel Czech there is a hashtag with a little V over the C and nobody knows what to what to what to say. Okay, that's the beauty of Czech is uh so you if you want to scratch your head, learn Czech. Um so so so it's a f it's an interesting story. It's another in the history of mankind and of Europe, it was a moment of rebellions, revolution, uprising, invasions. It was a moment where every borders were was changing every half century. So that's the fruit of his history. And the the end of Chapek history comes with the Commune, which is another uprising in Paris, where the people from Paris actually uh reject the government and that also ends in a bloodbath, and that's the end of the of the Chapek boutique in Paris. So
Host/Interviewer I see it. So it's it's the beginning and it's
Xavier de Roquemaurel the end at the same time. It's everywhere, and I think this is important to keep in mind. Now, in Geneva, they have success, immediate success because there is a big diaspora of uh Polish people inside Europe and they uh go to Place Vendôme in Paris because Grusewski has a friend which is uh uh nephew of of Bonaparte of Napoleon. It's one of the members of the Napoleon family.
Host/Interviewer I see. And they become
Xavier de Roquemaurel suppliers of the Napoleon family of Napoleon III as much as other members. was one of them, Jerome Bonaparte was one of them. Different people were were having different. So that's why you find some pocket watches with N of Napoleon. But always with a different N.
Host/Interviewer Right. Ah okay, because it was these
Xavier de Roquemaurel were different members of of the family.
Host/Interviewer Okay. Okay. and I missed
Xavier de Roquemaurel an auction to buy one that was given by Napoleon the Third. That's the one I missed, but you know, you cannot be everywhere. That's the reality of a CEO. We are not supermen. Certainly not. So uh basically he goes he he he goes after to Warsaw to open a store in uh what is the Champs Elise of Warceau,
Host/Interviewer right, develop his business and
Xavier de Roquemaurel in eighteen seventy the business becomes dormant.
Host/Interviewer Mm hmm. Uh it's the end
Xavier de Roquemaurel of the first period. Yes. And the second period is reborn in twenty fifteen by uh Harry, Sebastian and myself. That's the revival.
Host/Interviewer So talk about who was involved uh at the beginning, um uh how you financed the relaunching of the brand?
Xavier de Roquemaurel So I was looking for a job and I I think the fact of having lost my job was was critical in the success because it's a reset that is also a mental reset. A moment where you you question yourself deeply, you think you're a failure, and to exit from that syndrome of uh being an imposter or being a failure, you have to learn where you're good. And you learn how to strengthen where you're good and to do better what you're not good at. And I think that's the best step to because when you when you are an entrepreneur you face so many difficulties that you need to be armed. You need to be so you need to be go down the hole once, get out of it to know that okay, you can do it every year. It's okay. You're ready for that.
Host/Interviewer Because that is the job to do it over and over again, isn't it?
Xavier de Roquemaurel So I was networking uh like crazy to find a job to to uh for the family. I've got five kids so it was a very stressful moment and um a friend who is working at ap puts and uh and myself in contact harry uh bullshits me but nicely. He doesn't want to tell the whole story. He wants to see who I am. We decide to meet again, but I tell him, look, this is Serious Autor Logie. We should have a watchmaker at that table. I know one. And it was Sébastien who was uh bored in the job he was doing and dreaming of of more, you know. And so we see the three of us. And it's actually relatively fast because Sébastien says the prototype watch that you made Harry is really not that great. And Harry says it's not that watch, it's not that prototype. Actually, it's not watches, it's a company. It's a company, and I own it, I re-registered it in Switzerland and I re-registered the brand. Both are re-registered and we can relaunch it.
Host/Interviewer And this is Japek. And this is Japek.
Xavier de Roquemaurel And so I said, okay, let's
Host/Interviewer do a barbecue. It's a detail,
Xavier de Roquemaurel but that it's a detail with importance. This means let's share. Let's share that moment beyond what is just a meeting room. Let's have fun. Let's approach it and you know in a barbecue in a very informal way and uh let's share whatever we have in the fridge and um we uh we realized that we took a few decisions very quickly that were strategic without knowing they were strategic. so we had no funds but we had the brand and the company registered. We could pool fifteen thousand Swiss francs, so that was the funds we had. And we said okay, how should we finance it? And you doesn't the temptation is to think that there will be a fairy on the cradle that will be a billionaire that will give his money and never interfere.
Host/Interviewer Benign angel investor. And always
Xavier de Roquemaurel smiling and always nice. And we know it's not true. We know it's not true because on the lake the wind changes and people can be uh speaking to the ear of the person and telling look at the what they do and what they don't do. It is very difficult to make a bread. It is very difficult. And people are always prone on giving advice or having opinions. And I invite them to try, you know, before making uh fast opinions or fast uh advice. it's a challenge because it's always a balance. And when you want to go too fast, you screw.
Host/Interviewer You screw yourself. you destroy
Xavier de Roquemaurel everything. We live with eight turtles in the not eight. No, we had kids, 13 turtles now in the garden. We are little babies this year. And I love the turtle for that reason. It goes fast because it goes slow.
Host/Interviewer Yes. It goes far away because
Xavier de Roquemaurel it goes slow. So you look at the turtle, it's there, you think it's there, then it disappeared. And it's five meters away, you didn't see it moving. But going, you know always out, you know. So we decided to do crowdfunding equity to finance a company. And uh that decision, I mean, everything nothing is new in watchmaking or else. It's you improve, you develop, but you the main ideas are they're all there. So the crowdfunding equity was really something that people were doing a lot in a bit in France, but much more in England, where people would go out and sell shares of their company in not in the street but in salons where other wealthy people would would meet up. That created, of course, some scandals of you know sure fraud or health, but that also created beautiful stories of beautiful projects that uh took place. Um I think that the Panama was was uh Panama
Host/Interviewer Canal Finance the same it's similar.
Xavier de Roquemaurel that that that was uh that was the same ID behind, no. Or it's another canal. I I I have to check the story. But anyway, we did the same in a modern way using the digital world, the social network, the internet, the platforms to actually pull people from England, France and Switzerland into Chapek as shareholders. And we opened it worldwide.
Host/Interviewer Right. So uh so you do this on so there was a website or how did it work? Yeah. But it wasn't uh Kickstarter. It wasn't Kickstarter because
Xavier de Roquemaurel Kickstarter is selling a product. Yes. We were selling shares of the company.
Host/Interviewer Right. If you screw up when you do uh
Xavier de Roquemaurel a product, you don't go to jail. If you screw up when you sell shares of your company, you go to jail. So it's a different legal framework. Code or legal framework. It's uh it's a different sorry. So we we really needed the help of Razors then and Crowd for Angel in England to be legally okay. But what we realized is that every country had its own rule,
Host/Interviewer like USA had a different rule
Xavier de Roquemaurel set by the SEC, uh, Germany had another rule, etc. But that because the the legal framework of England, France and Sweden were so different, we were kind of covering every aspect of every rule. And therefore, we could say yes to anyone knocking the door and saying, Hey, I'm interested.
Host/Interviewer Yes. So we published what is called a
Xavier de Roquemaurel prospectus explaining the project, and then we welcome people from many different countries, much many more than just France, England and Switzerland. And so step by step we have we had like 10 nationalities, 20 nationalities. I should check today. We are 250 shareholders, and I would imagine that there are probably uh thirty to forty nationalities among these shareholders, so it's really worldwide. From Japan to the US and uh So it's
Host/Interviewer truly international and it's ownership, yeah.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Norway to uh uh South Africa, but he he was resident, not uh not national. So I'll find the Indonesia.
Host/Interviewer And so how much equity in the in the company did you sell and distribute and then how much did you raise? And then and then we'll talk about where you are in the
Xavier de Roquemaurel U.S. Anonymous, so we had uh 100,000 shares and we we made six fundrais.
Host/Interviewer Okay. This is very important in terms of strategy.
Xavier de Roquemaurel It's very important to have people around you to help you and listen to them. Ask them and listen to them. So on the field where they are experts.
Host/Interviewer Yes. Not on the watchmaking
Xavier de Roquemaurel or not on the what strategy, but on the field where they are experts. And we had a guy called uh Jan Sikora, uh based in uh in Prague, chairman of Wooden Company, which is a financial firm, and he he really uh spent time explaining to me, you know what, would be the right way to do it? And basically what we did was to be Spartans. So you don't. Spartans. Yes. So we are Spartans in the company. And Leonidas is my king. And uh we so always raise not enough to be secure. Live within security. Because this forces you every da nyight, I say every night. I was going to say every day, but my word you see my tone went from day to night, so it made every night. Um because it's really during the night that your brain uh continues to work indeed to make the right decision between option A and option B. You cannot afford both. And you have to not afford both to be forced to choose the right one. Interesting. And it's in that choice that you create the value and that you do you accomplish what is the most critical for an entrepreneur, which is focus, focus, focus. Focus on what will save your company next day, next week, next month, next year. Yes. This is what you have to achieve. So by raising not a lot every time, you just can achieve one, two, three milestones, and then you raise again. And you tell people well I achieve this milestone with what I raised before. This has a lot of benefits because you don't dilute yourself too much by raising limited quantity every time. So it's a double benefit for an entrepreneur and for the company. So six fundraise, we raise about five million, a little bit more. So between five and six, we would say just below six. And we uh
Host/Interviewer five million Swiss francs? yeah,
Xavier de Roquemaurel five million Swiss francs, and uh and that was enough for us to really ma manage the evolution of the company. Now the danger is even worse after. The beginnings are really tough. You wake up one day and you realize that you walk on a cliff. And the following day or the following year, you realize that you're not walking on a cliff. It's on both sid So um but but the scale up is the most dangerous the scale up is the most difficult
Host/Interviewer yeah scaling up and because there is
Xavier de Roquemaurel an acceleration. It's like uh you're in a Pilatus but you go closer and closer to bigger and bigger mountain.
Host/Interviewer Right. So even if your plane is super
Xavier de Roquemaurel and fast and agile, I love the Pilatus and then it becomes tough. You know, it's by it's becoming difficult.
Host/Interviewer And so you raised these funds, started producing watches. At this point, how much of the company equity then is in? You say there's about 250 shareholders now. So at this point, yeah. So
Xavier de Roquemaurel we raised between 2016 uh starting the the the campaign end 2015 when we launched the company. We launched the company with the watches, but they were not yet to be ordered.
Host/Interviewer Right. That was just to show what we were doing. But
Xavier de Roquemaurel we launched with the equity crowdfunding campaign that uh ended up in in beginning of twenty sixteen and we finished the the I would say the first stage of the fundraise at the end of twenty nineteen.
Host/Interviewer Right. So that was really the startup period. I see.
Xavier de Roquemaurel We raised again a little bit this year uh another raise
Host/Interviewer this year on the challenges of uh
Xavier de Roquemaurel of uh of the scale up. Yes because the scale up suddenly changes so many elements that you need uh extra cash.
Host/Interviewer And when I first met you, you were this is in maybe in 2022, 23, and you were really blowing up the Antarctique was a huge uh hit. People were uh scrambling to get their hands on that watch. And so yeah, where are you now in terms of production? How many watches are are you making a year and how have things shifted and and and how have you shifted uh you know models and average price and and things like that in response to the shifts in the market. So
Xavier de Roquemaurel it's true that there was a lot of excitement when we launched. But i this excitement was also a little bit like
Host/Interviewer the guys who are slowing down when there is an accident
Xavier de Roquemaurel on the highway. They want to see the these three ludicrous guys who are going to die in the next coming months, you know. Right. So our little boost on the floor two point two of Basel World was packed, but very few orders and we actually sold in that first Basel World one watch to one retailer for himself. It was uh Mateus Prusinski so I I hold it I hold him in my in my heart.
Host/Interviewer and uh but that you know you have to start
Xavier de Roquemaurel in a way. And that was good because we immediately sold online after that, thinking that's the only way to survive. And we were the first to start selling online.
Host/Interviewer Yeah indeed you were a pioneer in terms of online sales. But that's
Xavier de Roquemaurel typical of the startup, you know. You have to uh make your own way because if you follow the ways of others, you're gonna die. You have to invent your own way. So the first years we were making us I remember because we started with one and we finished with 88 orders at the end of the year. Because Japan, which was slower in deciding, finally decided to order after the Basel World visits because we got many shareholders ordering because we got the wives of the shareholder ordering. That was our order.
Host/Interviewer Okay. And uh that we tried to
Xavier de Roquemaurel deliver painfully. And this is
Host/Interviewer twenty nineteen basically. Twenty sixteen. Twenty sixteen, sir.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Seventy, hundred twenty-three, uh eighteen, hundred forty two, twenty nineteen, hundred sixty.
Host/Interviewer 2019 2020
Xavier de Roquemaurel with the arrival of Antarctic.
Host/Interviewer Yes. We did 150 because
Xavier de Roquemaurel of I would say more the chaos that we're living through, you know.
Host/Interviewer Yes. Everything was closed for for
Xavier de Roquemaurel uh six months. But
Host/Interviewer you could continue uh once the manufacturer was back, you could continue sales because you were uh online. We
Xavier de Roquemaurel continued everything we could. I was a lorry driver moving my components from one company to the other. And these companies were open with the owner who was not going to stop, and two, three of his best uh people working with him and continuing to do the job. So uh big groups were closed but we were you know fighting uh in the field and it was uh an extraordinary souvenir extraordinary
Host/Interviewer that period that uh that pandemic era is pretty important for the brand because it uh it was a differentiator for you it was
Xavier de Roquemaurel differentiator but it's so there is a d a human dimension and uh that I believe extremely strongly and I I wrote it to someone yesterday. Adversity Adversity is what gets the best out of you. So you need to
Host/Interviewer if it doesn't uh end you, yes. Exactly.
Xavier de Roquemaurel that's what it is. And in in facing adversity, startups who are used to that adversity because they start with nothing. They have no clients, no operations,
Host/Interviewer no no no no team,
Xavier de Roquemaurel no nothing, no accounting, no no system. So they they have to fight with everything. So we are used to that. So that's uh and and then it's important to keep it when you grow. But uh so we managed to do still 150 watches and uh and the and and to start having another book that became insane.
Host/Interviewer Right. And uh we finished the twenty
Xavier de Roquemaurel twenty with six hundred sixty seven watches in the order book.
Host/Interviewer Wow. And twenty-four
Xavier de Roquemaurel months later, it was three thousand. So we basically in two years we had 20 times a yearly output.
Host/Interviewer Right. And so that's stuff.
Xavier de Roquemaurel And we closed the other book for that reason.
Host/Interviewer Because we felt overwhelmed. Yes.
Xavier de Roquemaurel And we needed to evolve the company to s to close it uh close to close the door to open to others and to reorganize completely.
Host/Interviewer Right. So talk about what you did and and how that looked and how that worked.
Xavier de Roquemaurel You build a team. Uh we had Ludivin helping us, followed by so Nicolas, who is the head of the manufacture, came in to be uh
Host/Interviewer watchmaker, chef d'atelier,
Xavier de Roquemaurel and we got along very well. very well. So very quickly things started to be built and I told him, you know, look, we're in east square meter, we need to move on. And we moved to a place of three hundred s thirty three square meter and very quickly I told him this is already too small.
Host/Interviewer Yes. So I in the
Xavier de Roquemaurel meantime I had my accidents, which was uh a big challenge for everyone for myself and as as much as for for the team because I uh had a completely reset with the second second life. Yes. It's not the same as the first life, it's a second one.
Host/Interviewer Yes. And so can you talk about do you want to talk about what happened there or
Xavier de Roquemaurel TAD, that's the acronym in English. T A A A D.
Host/Interviewer Mm-hmm. And when you Google it, it's really
Xavier de Roquemaurel bad. I mean it's really Don't Google it at midnight. Yes. Google it in the morning. Type A acute aortic dissection. Which basically means that you are tableaus at the beginning before it actually goes on the cross of the auta.
Host/Interviewer Right. Which is a big first turn.
Xavier de Roquemaurel And uh as soon as it starts blowing then you lose two percent chance of survival every hour.
Host/Interviewer Wow. So you you're you're
Xavier de Roquemaurel dead in in in a few hours. Mine was particularly acute so I was to be dead very, very fast. I got to a first hospital, then helicopters and second hospital. I was saved in uh in the instant hospital in uh in Vern where yeah where they have a very good uh heart uh surgery uh
Host/Interviewer yeah I remember arriving there full of morphine and
Xavier de Roquemaurel I was uh still awake. I saw the doctor. He was young. Uh Alexander Cam. And uh was like 45 years old, so I thought okay, he's not yet I've he has not lost his sight and he has already had problems in the learned from his mistakes, so it's a good aid. So I said to him, Okay, I'm going to sleep now, I've seen you and see you tomorrow. And then I woke up and I couldn't believe what happened. It took me two months.
Host/Interviewer Two months of denial to accept that
Xavier de Roquemaurel what I had gone was a complete reset. The second day. First day I didn't even remember that second day. The first day of waking up. And it's only on the on on the on the following day that I wake up take a few pictures of myself and of what's happening around me, etc. very strange. very strange. Very indeed strange.
Host/Interviewer Indeed. Feeling people dying around
Xavier de Roquemaurel me in the wake up room. That was also another drama experience. You can feel the void of the energy. It's very strange.
Host/Interviewer Absolutely. When
Xavier de Roquemaurel people speak about energy that is everywhere, I'm I'm having this here of someone who is scientific but knows that science does not explain yet everything.
Host/Interviewer No doubt. So well
Xavier de Roquemaurel that's it. so that was a game changer also for the company. Two people in the company reacted very uh so it's very funny. Some people were destroyed, some people were uh losing the norse. And two persons showed that they were racehorses just willing to start racing. So it was the case of uh Nicola that I was speaking about
Host/Interviewer and the case of Valeria that you know
Xavier de Roquemaurel well. Yes. And together the two of them they just drove the company up. You know, they just continued and said okay in two months, we have Watchers and Wonders. Let's do a great Watchers and Wonders.
Host/Interviewer Right. Was maybe three
Xavier de Roquemaurel months, two and two, two to three months. And they organized everything. And we had an incredible Watchers and Wonders. And uh and so it was also for the company a way to evolve faster.
Host/Interviewer Yes. Because I didn't have the choice
Xavier de Roquemaurel to delegate or not. Yeah. I was out. I was out for at least a week before starting to check a few emails and make a few meetings. But really I was out for for months.
Host/Interviewer Yes. Before getting back,
Xavier de Roquemaurel you know. And talk about then, you know, how
Host/Interviewer the company has evolved. At one point you have an order book of three thousand. Where are you now in terms of um production? And then let's discuss the um the shareholder group. And it's really interesting to me. You have a at least one day a year where their shareholders can you know, buy and sell and trade their uh their shares. Yeah.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Yeah, that came actually also step by step. we have a uh we have two lawyers working with us. They are two friends. Um I I worked at Xenia for for seventies, that was also a a very special uh learning.
Host/Interviewer Yes. And I and I worked the fashion at Zenya.
Xavier de Roquemaurel I I work the the Italian way. Yes. So it's very close to people. Trust is paramount. The difference we have with El Padrino is that we make uh legal products, you know, watches. That's it, you know. The rest of the spirit is is very very uh very close, uh hand in hand. And uh the same also for the people who are part of the team but uh independents, no, our lawyers and and we question ourselves continuously, try to anticipate the way people will want to uh evolve and will want to to do things. So this exit in small companies is always a big challenge. And when you have two hundred shareholders, you take a sort of commitment that they will have a chance to exist
Host/Interviewer exactly in ten years. Yes. If
Xavier de Roquemaurel it's a private company. And so we very early started thinking, you know, how could we do that? And we were raising funds and we saw how fun that was actually to welcome tens of collectors worldwide, you know, coming from anywhere and talking and sharing with them the books and and the strategy of the company and the vision, etc. And so we said, why don't we do a share sale, a private share sale?
Host/Interviewer Right. And so we institutionalized
Xavier de Roquemaurel that because we followed the on one side we we we looked at what the FINMA, which is uh the equivalent of the sec,
Host/Interviewer in the regulator, yeah. Exactly.
Xavier de Roquemaurel The regulator. What they were giving us as a framework. And within that framework, we built up a share sale uh session that is a window if you want of time, about three weeks every year, where people can buy and sell the shares. And of course this is balanced or regulated by a shareholder agreement. So the shareholder agreement is critical in CHAPEC.
Host/Interviewer And uh these shareholder agreements has some
Xavier de Roquemaurel basis that are common to many shareholder agreements, which is uh the right of first refusal.
Host/Interviewer So shareholders come first. Right. Okay. Existing shareholders and existing shareholders come first. First refusal.
Xavier de Roquemaurel And then tag along and drag along, which means if you cannot be excluded in any way, and you cannot be prevented to buy if you are a large shareholder. So it works both ways.
Host/Interviewer Right. Protect the small against the big, protect
Xavier de Roquemaurel the big against the small. Yes. So that's a very good system.
Host/Interviewer Indeed. It's always,
Xavier de Roquemaurel you know, it's always to search the balance is the key. And then there was also the share sale and and these other elements that were included there. So we we've we've gone into that and uh it's been it's proven very one key element of the success. Anyone can go out, anyone can grow as a shareholder, and we have had some big changes in the in the recent years. So some large shareholders have disappeared, some smaller shareholders have have joined. Some collectors are joining regularly. This is this is really nice also as a as an experience. Because we we have for example, beside the board, we have a a board with a that is a very uh advanced board with regulations.
Host/Interviewer Mm-hmm. We work like a public company. Proper governance. Yeah.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Exactly. So we set the bar very high. We have an independent board member. He's a collector. He knows very well what happens in Chrono 24, what happens there, what happened there. He's deep into the business, and the rest are shareholders. And we divide so that there is representation of the small shareholders and of the big shareholders. So governance is
Host/Interviewer key. Beyond that governance,
Xavier de Roquemaurel uh we also have an advisory board and this is where we have exchanges on the future product, the trends, what's going on. It's my tests. They are my guinea pigs. They know it. Yes. called him this way you know they're
Host/Interviewer everything they joke about that because but
Xavier de Roquemaurel the best ideas you know I remember one of my one of our best ideas came from uh New York Watch Time New York, walking back with Michalis through the street of New York, we love that, from Gotham Hall to his to his apartment. It's a it's a one hour walk.
Host/Interviewer Right. Usually we have a cigar and and
Xavier de Roquemaurel this is a unique moment. And we went through going everything we knew in 2019. So it was quite early. What was working, not working, we are testing all the time. And from that, we kind of invented the subscription model
Host/Interviewer right that the Antarctic was going to follow
Xavier de Roquemaurel in May 2020. So you see October 2019, you put together all the learnings and in May 2020 you you go ahead and it works very well. So this interaction with the collectors and more collectors are asking us to join actually. Now I don't know how many p how many shares will be available for them. It's first the shareholders come and say uh if they buy everything or not you know
Host/Interviewer exactly and this three week period um what part of the year do you do that where does it after the yeah the
Xavier de Roquemaurel general assembly okay this way we have published the results. During the general assembly, I give an insight of what's going on, where we are going, what new product we are launching. And then they have, I would say it's a moment where they have everyone has the maximum level of information and uh right and and they can make the decision.
Host/Interviewer And your your general assembly, your annual general assembly, or what we would call an annual general meeting, uh in English. Yeah. When is when do you do that then?
Xavier de Roquemaurel In June. In June. In June. In June, usually Juneva or La Chautefond. Now we can do it abroad, so maybe one day we'll do it uh abroad in another city. Excellent.
Host/Interviewer One day we will we will have some journalists coming and
Xavier de Roquemaurel I will be happy to invite you. I would love to see that relationship that we have.
Host/Interviewer Yeah. I'm I've already have suggested
Xavier de Roquemaurel that. And the rest of the board members are like no no no you cannot do that. We don't but you know I told them look look S D C King Flume, you know, who published uh a very uh uh knowledgeable, he's a very bright guy, he got all our numbers. I don't know how.
Host/Interviewer Right. So and he made all the analysis
Xavier de Roquemaurel and actually he went even further than me in the analysis. I learned some stuff. When he crossed the number, I learned some stuff that we uh that we could do better, you know. so it's already there. So don't don't you know play with play with the transparency instead of fighting against it, you know. It's our it's part of it's a part of a of our personality, of our reality. And it's an advantage, you know. So let's do it.
Host/Interviewer Absolutely. And let's talk about production and how that production is. So now today we are
Xavier de Roquemaurel making a thousand watches. Sorry. Yes. Previously
Host/Interviewer De Batoon. I
Xavier de Roquemaurel was asking him a little bit for advice and he said when we had the surge of the orders for Chapek and we are like what is the right number? Is it one thousand, two thousand? He said to me, you know, I remember having two thousand four hundred watchers ordered at the betune and they vanished in a few months.
Host/Interviewer Yes. So be careful. And
Xavier de Roquemaurel he was right, and we lived that, we pushed that because we were thinking all these three thousand order are not true. We couldn't tell, you know, because everybody was saying, no, no, it's true, it's true, it's true. But then the crisis shrinked that. So now we live with a little bit more than six hundred uh watchers in the backlog which give us uh a vision for six months, um seven months, eight months, because we have understood that our market is at around a thousand watches.
Host/Interviewer Right. This is a good number.
Xavier de Roquemaurel At that number, people can get a watch not too slowly, not too fast. And when we are at that number, we don't have too many watches in Chrono 24. So it's you need to find that balance, you know. Chrono 24 is a thermometer. Do you have fever? Or not fever, you know? So when the watchers are I'm against when watchers get all the series get too expensive. But I'm against that a watch could be devaluated so strongly. So you need to find that balance where it's well accepted and it's well evaluated. This when you then you say that's good. This watch is old,
Host/Interviewer it should be below its price in
Xavier de Roquemaurel the this watch is new, it should be a bit above the price in the shop, you know. This is where it should be. Plus 20, minus 20%. This is where I feel it it's saying you want to avoid the hype. The hype is a is a is a is a fire. But it's a hay fire. it's burning you very fast, you know.
Host/Interviewer Yeah. And do you participate at all in that secondary market? Do you sometimes buy back pieces or we
Xavier de Roquemaurel and do you do anything like CPO? No, well we tried we asked ourselves really about CPO. And I would say again, you know, there is a master of CPO, it's called uh it's uh it's a brand in the crown.
Host/Interviewer It's a friends at Rome, they know how to do it. Yes,
Xavier de Roquemaurel they manage to do it, and I I kind of feel they are the only one.
Host/Interviewer We're certainly not capable to manage the
Xavier de Roquemaurel CPU. We are we're too small. And um and then uh regarding buying back in some cases we in some auctions we put a kind of uh our own reserve price on that piece. Like
Host/Interviewer sure. This piece should not be sold at that
Xavier de Roquemaurel price. And in some cases we got the piece.
Host/Interviewer Right. Because there was not enough. You know, you
Xavier de Roquemaurel need so you're sold. You need two beaters to get uh to get to get an auction to go high.
Host/Interviewer And it all depends on the market. Sometimes you the market
Xavier de Roquemaurel is down and something uh so it did happen. it happened once in particular uh that uh that I remember well. But we also buy in auction a lot of pocket watches. And we hope then there that there are not so many uh people building there. so we are both buyers and sellers. And uh and I think auctions are always interesting but always dangerous. So
Host/Interviewer sure. I I never advise
Xavier de Roquemaurel to kind of try to make money just by doing it s sporadically.
Host/Interviewer Absolutely. were assembling uh pieces um and now there's much more in-house production of components parts and and uh elements of the of the of the launches.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Movements we made, we made approximately 50% of the components in house. So we we machined them or milled them or uh uh yeah, turn them or uh to have them made in house. So we we from three hundred thirty uh square meter we moved to seven hundred ten, I think,
Host/Interviewer square meter or seven hundred eighty. Between
Xavier de Roquemaurel seven hundred and eight hundred square meter. So imagine ten times bigger than the initial atelier where we were in 2021, so five years ago. Now it's quite full. We still have a bit of space, but not so much. We have four large machines, CNC machines, so two CNC, one decollers and one uh electroerosion, so uh wire cutting,
Host/Interviewer right? Um cleaning,
Xavier de Roquemaurel etc. So we can produce quite a few components and we produce them and we tend to absorb know-house savoir-faire step by step. So the last one we absorbed was decoration, which before was done out and now we do in-house and that where we're gonna grow in the next uh two years because
Host/Interviewer in decorating finishing. Yeah, we
Xavier de Roquemaurel doing all the angles in house, etc. So far it was done a lot with our partner Innotech. But we are not it's not that we are, you know uh
Host/Interviewer Innotech now I think owned by uh Odomar PS
Xavier de Roquemaurel yeah exactly correct correct but we we keep the same relationship with Alexandre M, his his his his boss. He is one of our key partners for for production. We are a relevant partner for him, relevant client. That's very important..
Host/Interviewer Yes To have it on both sides. But
Xavier de Roquemaurel also we have that relationship that is personal between Alexandre and Xavier, who are friends, who get along and who share a vision of watchmaking that is uh that is the same and where we always know that when there is trouble we can call each other and say help me there and there is always a yes you know
Host/Interviewer indeed is always looking for a solution.
Xavier de Roquemaurel this is very very, important. Yeah, it's a collective
Host/Interviewer cooperative exact business. So we're not stopping
Xavier de Roquemaurel the fact of to of having in-house capacity does not make a stop to work with them.
Host/Interviewer Of course. It's more
Xavier de Roquemaurel that we make them focus on the highest part of the job, on the the one that creates the most added value,
Host/Interviewer that is the most complicated, that for
Xavier de Roquemaurel us could represent 20 years. you don't make uh for example if you were to do guillotine or enameling, you don't do an atelier of guillotine or enameling in less than 10 years.
Host/Interviewer Yeah. We could ask uh Dave
Xavier de Roquemaurel Brayersford, my friend from Garrick, how long it took them to really feel super comfortable with the with the the Gyoshi work, you know?
Host/Interviewer Yeah. I would say probably seven
Xavier de Roquemaurel to eight years for sure to f really feel super comfortable.
Host/Interviewer And what's your average price now and how has that evolved over the
Xavier de Roquemaurel We start at uh seventeen? We're gonna we we're gonna make uh a little foot in the fifteen to make it more easily to people to to to have a a Chapek watch.
Host/Interviewer So you're you're coming in with a with a more approachably priced. Yeah, but not so much more
Xavier de Roquemaurel because in the end this is authorlogerie. Yes. and you we would not cut corners. We don't cut corners on
Host/Interviewer the watches. I mean um we can cut corners on
Xavier de Roquemaurel everything, on the way we work, uh the car we drive, the spending we make that are not necessarily visible for for the collectors but on the watch no and then we will raise the price of the end watches which are today in 100 000 uh we will go to 200, 250, 300 also. So we expand on both directions.
Host/Interviewer Interesting. Interesting. And so you've managed immense challenges, uh hurdles that you've overcome in uh ten years as you look out to the next five years, ten years, uh decade for Chapik, what do you expect to be your biggest challenges, Xavier.
Xavier de Roquemaurel So I want you to say before 10 years, looking at the Chapek Minute Repeater, wow, this is so Chapek. It's a minute repeater that I've seen nowhere. It's a surprise. And at the same time, it's completely in uh continuity of what our ancestors made in with the pocket watches with uh with the minute repeater pocket watches so that continuity you know that's what we look for a sort of a surprise within a continuity I know for long I was saying that uh I love the sentence from Oscar Wilde with his consistency is a refuge for the unimaginative. And I understood that this it was in fact an invitation to be at the same time extremely creative and consistent. And to be both was difficult.
Host/Interviewer Yes. That's and that's what
Xavier de Roquemaurel we have to do. And uh so that's that's if I was leaving you with a with an idea was that. But I will leave you also with a question or with another point of reflection. That was I was telling you that we want to do uh soon at 15,000. At the beginning, and maybe always, it will be a owner's watch.
Host/Interviewer So it will not be publicized,
Xavier de Roquemaurel it will not be visible, it will be for the people who have had a Chapek and want that their nephew, their kids, their friends, their father, their brother or their sister or wife
Host/Interviewer has a chapek. I see. So
Xavier de Roquemaurel it's gonna be also this approach of family. You like Chapek, you understand the way we work, share it with more people.
Host/Interviewer The CEO and co-founder of Chapic. Thank you for joining us on the business of watches.
Xavier de Roquemaurel Thank you very much. Always a pleasure to be talking together.
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Host/Interviewer this episode. We hope you enjoyed. Please head on over to Hodinkee.com where you can join the discussion and leave any comments or questions about this episode or the business of watches in general. Who knows? We might even answer your question on a future episode. Thanks for listening and see you next time.