The Business of Watches [039] A Market Roundup Of Geneva Watch Days Releases With Tim Jeffreys And TanTan Wang¶
Published on Wed, 9 Sep 2026 15:00:00 +0000
Tim, TanTan and Andy talk new releases from Geneva Watch Days and where they might fit in the competitive watch market.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of the Business of Watches podcast, host Andy Binkley welcomes Hodinkee editors Tim Jeffries and Tantan Wang for an on-the-ground discussion from Geneva Watch Days. The conversation centers on the major announcements from the show, particularly Breitling's House of Brands strategy with the revival of Gallet watches positioned at an aggressive \(2,500-\)3,000 entry price point. The team discusses how Gallet represents Breitling's attempt to compete in the mid-level segment that has largely been ceded to micro brands, while Universal Genève targets the higher end.
The editors also explore other notable releases including the Vianney Halter collaboration with Bulgari (praised as an exceptional example of collaborative design), MB&F's Mad Edition 3 (their most commercially accessible piece yet), Tudor's revived North Flag GMT, and collections from Oris, Doxa, Frédéric Constant, and Girard-Perregaux. Throughout the discussion, a consistent theme emerges around value propositions, commercial accessibility, and the Swiss watch industry's strategic response to declining volumes. The conversation reveals an industry attempting to balance heritage and innovation while addressing price-conscious consumers in an uncertain market, with brands like Breitling leveraging manufacturing scale to deliver competitive pricing in segments previously dominated by smaller brands.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Andy Binkley | Welcome to the Business of Watches, the Ho Dinky podcast where we talk to the players and the executives and go behind the scenes to find out what's making the watch industry tick. Very special, relaxed, interesting, off the cuff episode we're gonna have this week. We are in Geneva and in person I am joined by Tim Jeffries, deputy editor at Hodinkee, as is Tan Tan Wang, editor at Hodinkee. Gentlemen, welcome to Geneva. Thank you |
| Tim Jeffries | for having us. Thanks for having us in your beautiful home. |
| Andy Binkley | Indeed, we are well, we are in uh you know, this is a uh very professional studio. Absolutely. Undisclosed location. So we've been here, you know, it's now Friday. The show wraps up officially on Sunday. But we've seen it, you know, you guys have been here uh for uh quite a few days. We've seen a lot of stuff. It's been quite interesting, it's been quite hectic. It is an interesting time for the industry in that, you know, we've we've sort of gone through a cycle, a boom, a real pullback. Now there's kind of more optimism and yet lots of um uncertainty ahead as there are certain uh lots of uncertain geopolitical events and situations. But one of the uh the biggest groups, the House of Brands, led by Brightling, unveiled their long-awaited and um much anticipated Galais collection. Now, it's it's quite an interesting strategy here. Obviously Brightling, like much of the industry, has been moving up in terms of price and value and quality over the past few years. So they've moved up in price. We saw a great um Brightling Navitimer, which we should also uh talk about as well. Um, and then they came with Universal Genève uh earlier this year, which is a brand they acquired for about 60 or 70 million francs. Um, a dormant brand is a big outlay, and then they've spent lots more reviving that brand and coming with an offering at a um higher price point, starting at about fifteen thousand francs and going right up to the top. We saw some of those watches in person for the first time for some of us, and um they were also quite impressive, and uh it was nice to see those. But the big news is Gallet, and so um Gallet is back, it's a revived brand that used to be um around a Swiss brand with plenty of heritage and history. And they are coming in at a very aggressive uh sort of, you know, um entry level or midvel-le price point around two thousand five hundred Swiss francs, just a little bit less than uh three thousand dollars, all the way up to you know, the top of five and just a little over six, but those are for some very special pieces. So we've all been waiting for this. Um we got to see the product. We are handling it today. Gentlemen, what do we think? I mean, where to start? 1010. |
| Tantan Wang | Where to start? Uh Gala is an interesting one for me. I think this is one of those brands. And I don't think I've actually had to say this in a while, but this is one of those brands where I need to sit and just think a little longer about the product. I think a lot of sort of the unexpected aspects of this brand launch for me really comes in the language that they're using to present the brand. And |
| Andy Binkley | Wanderlust. Wanderlust, you |
| Tantan Wang | know, a really adventure lifestyle themed. I think obviously we were, you know, I think there was a naive hope that a revived galet would be sort of an enthusiast core play, but if you know how the brands are being structured, obviously we knew that wasn't in the cards, but to hear, you know, the words come out of, you know, for example, Mr. Kern's mouth or you know, the teams uh that this is for a you know more fashion, you know, fashion forward audience. This is for almost a less watch enthusiast audience. Sure. It's commercial. It's very commercial, right? And I think that's what's interesting to me. And I think at first I almost felt unqualified to talk about Gala, given that I don't particularly have any, you know, affinity towards the the vintage, you know, the original brand. You know, a lot of this is I mean deep cut vintage stuff right? Trevor |
| Andy Binkley | Burrus Just as a quick side note though, it's interesting that that brand seemed to have um a particular resonance in the US uh traditionally so it's an interesting choice considering the the role that the US plays in the market right now. But yeah. |
| Tantan Wang | Oh wait, like I actually think they're trying to position this kind of product more for people like me than for the people that have been, you know, collecting galet all along. This is this is for people to wander into a brightling boutique, you know, as we know, the rollout starts at, I believe, Brightling boutiques only, then certainly mono brand sort of spaces. And so this is for people to come into a Brightling boutique and then check out the product, right? I'm I'm curious what proportion they're assuming are gonna be people curious about the brand then going to the boutique or you know the other way around which is right maybe people looking for a brightling and then seeing the idea of a lower price tag sort of adventure watch if, you will, as as I'm sure they will be selling this as um and and sort of buying from there. So all that to say, I have a lot of thoughts. I don't know if I've compiled all of them. I've I have more questions than ever, I think, after the presentation, but I mean, long story short, I the product is very it fits the price, right? I think, you know, my favorite ones are the 38mm vintageria shoes and the |
| Andy Binkley | classics. The classics that I do think |
| Tantan Wang | are sort of a bone that they tossed towards sort of the enthusiast crowd, if you will. For sure. That was |
| Tim Jeffries | yeah. That was fan service, bit of fan service there. |
| Tantan Wang | But of course, you know, they're the most expensive ones, right? Um a departure from the core price point. So yeah, all that to say, I'm you know, I'm still thinking, eager to do some hands-ons and and spend some time with the product and and kind of go from there. |
| Andy Binkley | Just to follow up though on the classics, and then I want to hear um Tim on this, but to me, I mean, you know, those ones have I mean, and obviously the whole this is a whole value proposition, and they say they're sort of able to produce these pieces because of the scale that they have as Brightling as a manufacturer, and it's all being assembled by Brightling at their uh facilities here in Switzerland. Even we see those steel bracelets. That's a Brightling bracelet. Uh it has a nice gallon, it's actually, a better bracelet now because it has the um uh the Galay um engraving and also uh microadjust. But uh indeed that value, that idea of value for those classics is a Brightling B09 chronograph movement. And I think, you know, in a Brightling watch to start to get into that, you're looking at a much higher price point. |
| Tantan Wang | Yeah, I think my my my overall takeaway and why I like those products, I think the most is that, you know, value proposition obviously is a very relative term, right? We use it in context of what price points or what the product is trying to achieve. And I think the wider galley releases match the price that they're asking for versus these vintage reissues, which I think offer a pretty good value proposition for someone looking for that brightling manually one movement, right? And I think that's the interesting part where it's the m more expensive stuff to me that,'s actually more of a value proposition than than the classics. |
| Andy Binkley | Yeah. And Tim, tell me your impressions. I mean, you know, this is a brand that's basically coming in, I think, you know, 2500 and I guess it's a um that's Swiss franc's starting place for a three-hander, that uh flying officer. I think it's pretty um smart looking watch and feels quality in the hand and on the wrist. And then uh with uh chronographs, both have Salita movements, but uh the the chronograph has got that higher end um Solita chronograph of the extended power reserve. But yeah, they're going the you know, this is a um segment that you know Tudor was once in if we think, but you know, they've kind of um graduated out of it. Omega hasn't been there for a long time. Langine is aggressively um sort of still trying to stay there. Then you've got you know, Frederic Constant is sort of um sometimes in that in that space. But yeah, w I mean what do we think about like a b a big group like uh Brightling, the House of Brands, going into that kind of setting. |
| Tim Jeffries | That's exactly what we wanted to talk about because I think it's obviously very interesting year for the now coined house of brands. And for me, this was the final piece of the puzzle. We got UG earlier in the year. We're getting Galay this time. And I think when those prices came out, we were all excited for UG. And I think across the board, I think we could all agree on a little higher than we were expecting to come in at. |
| Andy Binkley | UG we mean yeah yeah UG and |
| Tim Jeffries | and so I think we were all maybe expecting |
| Tim Jeffries | the same thing for Gallet just |
| Tim Jeffries | because of UG. And then I remember when we got the prices, I think, I think there was a general sentiment uh within the company was like, oh, these are competitively priced. And I think that like that's the final piece of the house of brands puzzle. It's like, okay, they're positioning it at an aggressive price point. And I think contextualizing against UG, because they're both fresh in my mind. They both came out this year. You know, UG, a ton of references across the board, four different |
| Tim Jeffries | lines. They had the Pretoporte, they had the the |
| Tim Jeffries | one of ones, they have all these. |
| Tim Jeffries | This is a lot of lot of skews. |
| Tim Jeffries | And this this for me was the opposite of that was |
| Tim Jeffries | really dialed in. And I think that we were all surprised in a very positive way. And for me, when I saw the flying officer for the first time on images first and then |
| Tim Jeffries | in on the wrist today, I was really, |
| Tim Jeffries | really pleasantly surprised about how strong that is. It's a great watch for under three thousand dollars, incredibly competitive. And I think that for me, it's it's just really helpful to contextualize it. I just can't help but compare it to UG. |
| Tim Jeffries | And first of all, just what a busy year |
| Tim Jeffries | for the House of Brands. I mean, geez, like launching two brands, reviving a 200-year-old brand in Galax I mean, I know that was done with care. I know that was done with intention. And I think that for me, it was a really solid release. It was a really solid introduction. I'm curious to see where they go from here. Uh, but for me a good first step. |
| Andy Binkley | Yeah, and I wanna I'd I'd love to hear you both on the this idea. I mean, you know, twenty five hundred Swiss francs entry level for a you know quality, well-made Swiss watch, which they are kind of leaning into the fact that this is manufactured by Brightling. the name Brightling is on the back of the watch, but theoretically they could have ha you know, s um say this is a new Brightling line coming out in this space. But what they've chosen to do is to r you know revive this sort of deep-cut old brand and do that. And whereas we see other brands who do compete in this Tag Hoyer, I think for instance, it's you know um uh plays in a whole bunch of uh price categories. Frederic Constant uh does it as well, both below and above that. But yeah, I mean what do we make of that that choice to shroud it in galley? But you know, these are Brightling made watches and they're there's a lot of shared components and it'll be in Brightling boutiques. That's the way it's gonna it's gonna work. |
| Tim Jeffries | Powered by brailling, I think is gonna be a phrase that we're gonna hear a lot over the next few years. |
| Tim Jeffries | I I think for me, I mean obviously it makes sense brain |
| Tim Jeffries | moving to more of a parent company. I mean, Mr. Kern said it yesterday, and he |
| Tim Jeffries | said that in some ways, |
| Tim Jeffries | like Bradling is the parent company of both Gallet and Yu Shi |
| Andy Binkley | in this house of Browns, yeah. Quotes. |
| Tim Jeffries | And so I think that And they couldn't have done |
| Andy Binkley | it without them. Oh a hundred percent. And I and |
| Tim Jeffries | I think that like that makes sense. I'm just like I don't know if that's that branding, that |
| Tim Jeffries | nomenclature is is completely necessary. I think that like we don't we can go without it |
| Tim Jeffries | personally. But I think that by |
| Tim Jeffries | saying that, by having that nomenclature, it's a sign of like |
| Tim Jeffries | they want these brands to be intertwined. |
| Tim Jeffries | They don't want them to be completely isolated. I mean |
| Tantan Wang | again, I think it shows what kind of audience that they're positioning these watches for, right? This is, I think, you know, we were chatting about this this the other day, but even though, you know, Brightling is not maybe the first brand that, you know, diehard watch enthusiasts, you know, think about day to day, you know, I would say like, you know, as alongside maybe Speedmasters and Submariners, I see so many Nava timers out there, you know, so many bright links. And, you know, I think this is a clear statement where they believe that the the brand recognition outside of again our little bubble of of enthusiasts, like the Brightling brand recognition is so strong that they're actually they they need it to carry this. And it's certainly to the audience that they're looking for very much a plus, right? So again, I think it's again, the the sort of courage or or audacity to put that on the back of each galet was really surprising to me. And it's almost a little surreal, right? Like to, you know, you you're looking at a galet and yes, even though it's they're very different products from the original ones, and then you turn it back and you see like that, you know, that B, right? And it's like they're it's like assembling like the brightling cinematic universe, uh in a sense, right? And I think that's very much an interesting like again the language is so interesting to me this time around it's like reading this language is really the only way for me to understand sort of the way that they're shaping this brand but it's it's quite interesting. |
| Andy Binkley | Totally. No, I agree. And uh no, it's it's bold and it's uh uh there's plenty of audacity involved and and and you know, um we're all gonna be watching very closely. Obviously there's been some reports lately about, you know, um Brightling's uh parent company, their owner, uh partners group, which is a Swiss uh private equity firm, and you know, yeah, there's some uh debt obligations coming due uh over the next little while. But yeah, no, it's a it's a great fascinating story. But you know, George Kern is one of the the best known and most talented executives in this industry. He's been around a long time. and this is a story about trying to create growth and they're doing it on these multi-platforms. And it's really fascinating. Last thing I'll I'll I'll say about this is, you know, that flying Officer, you know, obviously it it harkens back to the original Flying Officer, which is um was a really cool and innovative watch in its day and um in terms of being a actual GMT and and telling time and and and having all these great um sort of refueling stop names um on the dial. And I really like what they've uh actually kind of done here. And I think just putting a 12 hour timing bezel on there. That's just cool. Like, I mean, that's a that's a cool choice. And uh, you know, there's a lot of brightlings, including many I own that have compass uh bezels on them and that's not the most useful. Um although it kinda looks cool, it's not so useful. And once you, you know, learn how to use a a twelve hour bezel to to time another time zone or to track another time zone. Yeah, it's very cool. And so I think it you know, th th this isn't this would not be a bad choice as as as someone's first watch. It's got the you know, there's one with the bold uh orange dial color, um and you know, and and another in blue and then the chronographs and you know, I think I I I d I think it's not a bad watch. And you know whether or not we we think that the the marketing and that color scheme sort of um uh hits the mark, it is a very commercial release, but there are some, you know, real cool watchmaking touches there and and it does feel quality in the hand. |
| Tantan Wang | Yeah, for sure. I think again, this is what this proposition is, I think, for a product is that it these feel much better than maybe your run-of-the-mill micro brand offering, you know, at a similar price point. And I think that's where, you know, again, to the to the general public, that makes a huge difference, right? When you hold it in your hand and you get that sort of density and that tactility, it it makes a difference. And again, I think it's very smart for them to have sort of committed to basically uh the same lug width and lug design across the entire board because they just want the idea that any customer can not worry about you know lug widths, lug to lugs, all of that, and to swap everything across the board. You know, quick release is not a new thing. They didn't invent it, even though they sort of made made it sound like they invented a new system. But I think what's interesting is them committing to this idea that there you don't need to order different straps. Like this is a also efficiency on their end, right? So there's a lot of again interesting choices of them taking a step back, revisiting how to, you know, launch this. And again, we'll see where it goes from here. |
| Tim Jeffries | I was gonna mention, I'm glad you brought that the straps, |
| Tim Jeffries | I think that obviously with I think it's uh maybe seven or eight SKUs. I don't I think something somewhere around there. But I think the number of straps are twenty or so. And so that's a way it's like |
| Andy Binkley | a hundred and fifty combinations. So |
| Tim Jeffries | I think that's a really wise and strategic decision uh by the House of Brands to go out of that way. I think that |
| Tim Jeffries | less less dials, more straps, a |
| Tim Jeffries | lot of different variations. I think there's something I |
| Tim Jeffries | think I I think are we can all agree there's something there |
| Tim Jeffries | for about just about everybody. And I think that they've accomplished that goal. |
| Andy Binkley | Yeah. And as you say as you were saying, Tanta, and I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, this is a part of the industry that was, you know, that much of the traditional Swiss industry has ceded to those micro, you know, what what I like to call boutique brands. But indeed, this is, you know, an attempt to leverage that proper Swiss heritage and that Swiss company manufacturing and compete in that space. and because yeah, I mean, you know, uh from my perspective and and and anyone in the industry will tell you, I mean, w the crisis, the challenge of the Swiss industry is volumes, right? is bringing back trying to stop the slide in volumes. I mean, you know, the value of Swiss exports has been going up for years, and that's because prices have been going up and brands have been making less watches but charging more. And you know, the the the part of the industry that feels that the worst and feels it first is the commodity suppliers. And you know, with if that infrastructure really goes away, it doesn't just threaten those companies and it threatens the entire industry because obviously the industry is everybody makes watches with supplies from uh component uh makers and and that's how it works. And if they go away, you know, the whole industry is in trouble. And we you know, we've seen AP talking about it lately and and uh you know the whole industry knows this and and so I think chapeau to uh to the House and Brands uh in terms of you know trying to make that reverse course on that uh volume trend, I would say. And so anything else we want to say about Galais? I mean it is, you know, it's basically the big news, the big event uh of Geneva Watch Days this year though, yeah. |
| Tim Jeffries | I liked how they contextualize it not only within |
| Tim Jeffries | the House of Brands, but how they presented it. Like I I |
| Tim Jeffries | thought that there was a lot of care that |
| Tim Jeffries | went into the presentation. You know, |
| Tim Jeffries | they had they had paragliders and |
| Tim Jeffries | they had climbers, they really were pushing the sense of wonderlust. And I |
| Tim Jeffries | really appreciated that because I think that |
| Tim Jeffries | you know you want to desire you want to have |
| Tim Jeffries | you know create something obviously we know |
| Tim Jeffries | Gala we know it's been around 20 years we know the history the ins and outs of it but if you're trying as an entry level brand should do, entry level quo on quotes, but a a three thousand dollar price point brand wants to do is like, you know, bring in new customers and how do they how do they do that? How do you bring them into that ecosystem? Is it creating this sense of of want, desire going out there. And so I thought how they presented it um during the presentation was really smart and the the marketing was around it I thought was was really good. |
| Tim Jeffries | And uh it was great to see George Kern in a safari hat and and out looking at |
| Tim Jeffries | tigers and and giraffes. But |
| Tim Jeffries | I I really like that and and uh you can tell |
| Tim Jeffries | a lot of care went into that and they just didn't have you know it wasn't just like a 30-minute speech. Like thought went into it, and I appreciate that. |
| Tantan Wang | I think whether you care for the product or not, you know, um obviously it's uh you know uh unsurprisingly you see a corner of the internet which is the diehard vintage collectors, you know, go up in arms about the the new designs. But what regardless of if you like the product or not, I'm noting how almost honest they are in in the way that they're serving this brand, in in the way that I think they're they know their audience, right? I think they're not pretending to be sort of something bigger or uh more intellectual than than they are. I think they're they know their audience is gonna be, you know, that again, that that young fashion forward market, which is a term that stuck in my head because, you know, it's not something that we're interpreting. It's something that was presented to us. |
| Andy Binkley | It's regular wash bars. It's not necessarily enthusiasts, but you've gotta try and have the enthusiasts on board. But it that's not you know who's necessarily gonna be buying these watches and volumes. |
| Tantan Wang | Yeah. So I think, you know, I I almost do feel that that aspect is almost a little bit refreshing in that it's not trying to pretend that it's you know this intellectual thing for the the most ascerning collectors and then when in reality it's pushing for them you know a mass market sort of uh conversion but like they're just like no this is our audience we're gonna we're we're looking to sell a lot of watches to people that just want a watch that they like, you know, and here here it is, you know? |
| Andy Binkley | Yeah, absolutely. and that uh sort of uh straightforwardness is uh somet is refreshing uh in an industry that isn't always uh that straightforward. So I agree. Let's um let's jump to um uh a brand that's sort of in the same category uh which is Frederic Constant, which you know had um had some strong releases here um including it's the Moneta, the classics Manetta, um, which is a lovely looking watch with uh quite uh dramatic dial work nominated for GPHG as well. And you know, I had a conversation with Niels Egrading, the um the CEO there, the managing director there, and and they're doing well. They are leveraging but it's it's interesting to I think compare and contrast with the house of brands 'cause you know they are this is a uh a Swiss based watchmaker that um was started by a Dutch couple of years ago you know four almost forty years ago and and but is owned by Japan Citizen Group. And so the you know he talked about leveraging that group, all those uh opportunities they have and and and that leverage they have in terms of dealing with suppliers and those kind of things. And you know, you told me that sales are up double digits uh year over year, which you know, in that price point, you know, average I think sixteen, seventeen hundred Euros for their stuff is good news and and a little surprising in an issue that's kinda been flat for the past uh few years so yeah? What did you think of uh what we saw from Frederick Constant and either of you guys? I |
| Tim Jeffries | think Frederick Constant's having a great year. To be honest with you, I I just did a hands-on on the World Timer that they released uh watched and wonders, which is one of my favorites from the show. Uh a beautiful World Timer, made in house, and coming in |
| Tim Jeffries | about eight thousand dollars. And you know, |
| Tim Jeffries | following that up with uh I think a very |
| Tim Jeffries | strong dream of watch is obviously you have |
| Tim Jeffries | the moon phase and the Moneta. The maneta was |
| Tim Jeffries | nominated as a limited run 999 nominated for GPSG. Um moon |
| Tim Jeffries | phase. I I think that it's interesting, you know, |
| Tim Jeffries | world time or moon phase. I think that like this is a year for Frederick |
| Tim Jeffries | Constantinus kind of like showing their their complication prowess. And I think it's a it's a beautiful execution. I think that the |
| Tim Jeffries | pair of them, the Moneta and the |
| Tim Jeffries | and the Moon phase, work really well together. And in getting them on the wrist, I was |
| Tim Jeffries | I was a big fan, and I think I'm not surprised um to hear that sales are up |
| Tim Jeffries | because I think at that price point under 10 K |
| Tim Jeffries | US I think it's really strong. And if you want a world timer, a moon phase, I mean where else are you looking? |
| Tim Jeffries | You know, for me um at at the 7 to 8K. So um it was |
| Tim Jeffries | it was great to see them follow up, I thought a great |
| Tim Jeffries | release at Watchers and Winners with uh |
| Tim Jeffries | with the two greats here at uh Jimmy Washes. |
| Andy Binkley | Absolutely. FC is |
| Tantan Wang | is great at sort of that level of I would say honest watchmaking. I think, you know, it they're to me it's all it's all about the complications as as their value proposition to an enthusiast, right? Like again, even their perpetual is is something that it's a |
| Andy Binkley | great story, they're perpetual. it's a great execution |
| Tantan Wang | and and they're doing stuff sort of the right way. Obviously, you know, they have a very close relationship with Le Jou Peret, which is, you know, uh |
| Andy Binkley | also owned by Citizen Avi, the uh Swiss movement maker here. |
| Tantan Wang | Exactly. And so you, know, again, they're doing they're doing just good, solid stuff, right? And I think all like again, it's all about I think this is, you know, this feels like the year of the palate cleansers, the things that are refreshing, right? and I think, you know, FC continues to do that stuff. And you know, to their credit, this is not new, right? They've been they've been kind of doing this all along. And I think that's that that's where maybe, you know, hearing about the sales performances, this is where it's paying off, right? But |
| Andy Binkley | they're kind of continuing to be here and stick around and gain credibility, both with the enthusiast audience. I mean, you know, they you know, Neil just told us before, you know, they talk about their manufacturer products, the manufacturer movie like all the all the time. But you know, that's not the most of the volume. But at the same time a manufacture product, the World Timer, you told me they're they're making over three thousand of those uh this year. That's a not an insignificant volume for a for a watch at that price. It's a great, great product. It's a really nice watch. And just continuing with FC from Alpina, we saw uh new additions of the Star Timer and the Extreme talking about the that um that the synesergi with La Jou Pure with the Star Timer pilot. They're are using now a um a solar powered quartz movement and um we you know we we've seen uh La Jou Pouray provide that movement to uh Tag Hoyer in the past. They had an exclusive, and now we're gonna I think start seeing that a lot in a whole bunch of brands, including Frederic Constant, I think, as well. Tantin, I wanna that we we saw Bulgary together today and and like it was interesting for me. It was a w you know that the um the Vianney Halter, Dr. Finissimo. I did not think I was gonna like this watch much and um man, what a great watch. |
| Tim Jeffries | I sometimes I I question, |
| Tantan Wang | you know, the uh the value of my taste sometimes in watches and you've got I like I like some I like some weird stuff out there, right? But I think Tim I think heard me in the office when we first got that press release and I I basically screamed like, whoa, you know, in the office. And I thought it was like, this is cool, right? And you know, not everybody thought the same way that I did, certainly. But seeing it in person today, I think it to me, you know, again, whether you care about the aesthetics or not, you know, halter's aesthetic is so specific and This is real the |
| Andy Binkley | halter aesthetic. This is so, so |
| Tantan Wang | halter. But to me, whether you care about that or not, I think it's undeniable that this was one of the greatest exercises in collaboration from a product design perspective. You know, I think this is a watch where, you know, obviously this is built on the sort of like GMT octofinissimo platform, right? But in in sort of porthold steampunk antiqua aesthetics from Halter. But it is so obvious that it's a Bulgary, and it is so obvious that it's a Halter. You know, and I think there's very, very few times can you say that about, you know, a collaborative sort of design project. And I think this is where that succeeds so much for me. And I gotta say, like, as you experience, you know, tryinging this th on in person it rocks like it is for how obnoxious you know basically the design is it works well on the wrist like yeah it looks natural and cohesive and, it just feels really good. Listen, I mean, you know, they're they don't no one's care about my opinion. These are all pre-allocated, right? You know, I believe 30 in titanium, 15 in gold, you know, but they're very expensive and you know, I already very sought after. So um they're not sweating over there. Um but man, like it was such a such a joy to see. Again, like going back to the palate cleanser thing, like that was just fun. And you know, in a is sort of in an era where prices for everything are so high, you know, from from independence to you know, the the sort of big brands and the, you know, all of the holy trinity. I just think that this was such a fun thing to see. and it's, you know, it I mean it is unoptainium, you know, in in sort of every sense of the term. But I like I almost don't care, right? Because it's just cool that someone spent three years, I believe, working on this. Right. And that's that's just damn fun. So again, for me, this was uh this is one of those things where I liked it when I first read about it and I loved it once I got to see it in person. Um and a shame Tim didn't you didn't get to see it? Why are |
| Tim Jeffries | you rubbing it in? I have I already had big FOMO. |
| Andy Binkley | And then when I saw the photos and I talked to y'all |
| Tim Jeffries | after, I was like really But |
| Tim Jeffries | even like you know I did hear you audibly |
| Tim Jeffries | gasp in the in the office when it came out and and and looking at your photos from it and hearing you talk about it like what a what a strong release and and like maybe I I'll ask a question here. |
| Tim Jeffries | It's like when is the last time y'all |
| Tim Jeffries | seen a collaboration that is equal parts both brands? |
| Andy Binkley | This is the the intention and and and this is what one should strive for in collaboration. Collaborations have become so ubiquitous and so just, you know, m matter of fact and and unsurprising. This is a really good example of how to do collaboration, right? Because you as you say, the you look at that that is a halter and it sure as heck is a um uh an octofenissimo as well. And but one we haven't seen before. |
| Tantan Wang | No, and and again I also think that this is, you know, just such a great example of the octofenissimo being such a wonderful platform, right? and a canvas for these iterations. I mean, they've done so many cool, bizarre, weird projects with artists, you know. Like one of my favorites is obviously the Tadao Ando uh series. And, you know, when that first came out, I always said I think it just projected such confidence on that today ondo octofenissimo collab that Bulgari took their name off the dial because you know it's a Bulgari Octofinissimo. You look at the dial and you know it's Tadal Ando and like that''ss there a s there's a sort of confidence exuded by these collaborations, especially from Bulgary, that I think again, Fabrizio is doing just a wonderful job. And I mean commercially it also speaks, you know, volumes about the performance. But yeah, it just like it was so it made me very happy. Which, you know, honestly, it was very |
| Tim Jeffries | good to see. I think that's kind of been a theme of the show. You know, we've had |
| Tim Jeffries | some great meetings. Like I love the talking about palate cleansers throughout the week. Like |
| Tim Jeffries | that's one of the this is uh both Tantan and my |
| Tim Jeffries | first uh Geneva watches. And I think that we both agree that like this is it's so refreshing. It's so it's so nice. I mean, we love Watches and wonders. It's a lot of work, but we love it, of course. But it's |
| Tim Jeffries | it's I think this is a this |
| Tim Jeffries | watch exemplifies like the ethos |
| Tim Jeffries | of the show. It's fun. We're out and about. |
| Tim Jeffries | It's a great collaboration. It's a little bit unexpected, but it works. And I think that I think that that's really special and and uh I'm just I can't wait to see it. I'm I'm I'm bummed I wasn't there to join you two indeed. |
| Tim Jeffries | Two fine gentlemen. You were at uh Girard |
| Andy Binkley | Pergaux when we were at uh Bulgarie, uh you would have seen the L'Oreato fifty tourbillon uh micro rotor thirty nine millimeter. That's a handsome watch. I I got to see it uh last weekend driving around in the in the in the mountains. What |
| Tim Jeffries | were you driving around in, Andy? Oh |
| Tim Jeffries | okay, okay, all right. It wasn't actually |
| Andy Binkley | Magnum's car, but it was the same. But |
| Tim Jeffries | anyway, I heard you had a nice time. I had |
| Andy Binkley | fun. Uh had fun. But uh yeah. What did you think of the Joy Perigot stuff when you saw it? I I enjoyed it. You |
| Tim Jeffries | know, um thirty-nine millimeter. Uh you know, normally I I I like the I like the GP blue. Um, but I feel like with the Torbion the rose gold |
| Tim Jeffries | really popped for me, like especially in the |
| Tim Jeffries | in the new beautiful GP boutique right here on the on the on uh the |
| Tim Jeffries | lakeside. Um light was good and and i i opted for the rose gold and I was sp speaking with Mark uh the managing director |
| Andy Binkley | Montley at |
| Tim Jeffries | my appointment. He was saying that like I I wasn't alone in my sentiment. People have been favoring that rose |
| Tim Jeffries | gold. I think it just it just pops. |
| Tim Jeffries | It just works really well with the with the Tour Beyond, a lot of great design elements, hearkening back to you know many years of of of the bridge and the Torbion case. |
| Tim Jeffries | So I was a big fan uh but in 39 uh |
| Tim Jeffries | wore pretty well my wrist. I have a pretty small wrist. And so |
| Tim Jeffries | I put it on and yeah, it |
| Tim Jeffries | felt right at home there. And so I think, you know, a pretty strong release and uh a great way to they just open a new boutique here in Geneva. |
| Andy Binkley | They did. Uh so uh great way to kind |
| Tim Jeffries | of break that in and big fan. Yeah. |
| Andy Binkley | Did you like that? I haven't seen the I've I've seen the construction side and talked to the the people uh building it. How did the boutique uh hit for you? |
| Tim Jeffries | It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Right, |
| Tim Jeffries | you go in right up the street and a lot of |
| Tim Jeffries | light. It was a beautiful sunny day here |
| Tim Jeffries | in Geneva and uh yeah, I enjoyed it. Um, |
| Tim Jeffries | you know, one of the I little |
| Tim Jeffries | small uh design features on the movement is the the the watchmaker that worked on it engraves their initials on the on the bridge there. Or sorry, not on the bridge, but on on the main plate. And uh yeah, I I just love that. And |
| Tim Jeffries | so it's like little fun little Easter egg that uh we experienced a little bit earlier in a different way of a few months ago. Um |
| Andy Binkley | Brand. And you know, I think a few years ago during the boom, you know, they couldn't uh make enough Laureados. Like much of the industry, they're they're um you know uh having to work harder to sell more watches and they are sort of delivering in terms of, you know, um producing higher quality and more focused uh stuff. And uh it's interesting they're really starting to explore their their actually have a great uh kind of partly unknown history with motorsports. So we'll be sort of exploring that uh more as the year goes on. So stay tuned for that. Um let's let's move on. Um do you want to talk about Aurus or maybe Doxit? Tell me. |
| Tantan Wang | Ooh, let's let's talk about Horus. Okay. |
| Andy Binkley | Mr. Muppets. We |
| Tantan Wang | knew Tan Tan was going to pick Horus when you asked |
| Tim Jeffries | him that question. Come on. Yeah, I |
| Andy Binkley | mean, this is the this is the third |
| Tantan Wang | edition that Oris has done with the puppets. And there's pretty much no other brand that that collaboration quite makes sense with, right? I think Oris has always been a bit silly intentionally in in its sort of uh philosophy and |
| Andy Binkley | not so serious. Not so serious, and |
| Tantan Wang | they've really sort of tripled down if you will hear. Obviously, this this year it's all about the great gonzo, you know. Um a Muppet of unspecified origin, which is the the great big debate, you know, that everyone's carried for many decades now. |
| Andy Binkley | What's your well okay, you're you're uh I I grew up watching the Muppets the Muppets show, but I mean you tell me which uh what is what is gone to |
| Tantan Wang | it's so fun well I 'cause you are but |
| Andy Binkley | you are a true Muppets uh fan and and and freak. |
| Tantan Wang | Listen, that's that's the I |
| Tim Jeffries | mean wow, Andy, okay, all right. |
| Andy Binkley | Listen, he calls it like he sees it, you know. |
| Tim Jeffries | Um I I I am the only person |
| Tantan Wang | at this company that's been to every single permanent exhibition dedicated to Jim Henson. So you know that's it. |
| Tim Jeffries | How many is that? There's only two. Oh that's |
| Andy Binkley | all of them. Um yeah, and any if anyone |
| Tantan Wang | listening is also a Muppets fan, I'd highly recommend you check out there's the uh Jim Henson exhibition in the Museum of Moving Image in Astoria um in New York and uh And there's also the museum, the center for paper arts in uh Atlanta, Georgia. And actually, if you remember the Jim Henson studio that um John Mayer had just purchased in LA, um the sort of the old Charlie original Charlie Chaplin studio that eventually became the Jim Henson headquarters. There was, if you drive by in LA, you'll always recognize there was this giant Kermit the Frog on the top of this studio wearing a Torbridge Napolian uniform. And so after John Mayer had purchased this, you know, obviously, that was clearly going away. But now recently they just announced that that is actually moving to Atlanta and being placed on the building for the center of puppetry arts. So I just wasted, you know, a few minutes of your precious time talking about |
| Tim Jeffries | nothing about watches. You can just check that right off right now. |
| Tantan Wang | Yeah, take a shot. Um but anyway, you know, this is a very big pivot for them. You know, they haven't done you know, for the three that they've done with the Muppets, um none of the products are the same, even though they've been within the Pro Pilot X family, right? Um the Kermit was the Propilot X Caliber 400. Um I think during a time when Aurus is really doubling down on Caliber 400, right? I think they've sort of stepped back a little bit and let a little more of the Salita based product shine. Um so then the Miss Piggy came along and it was, you know, a 28mm, very small, you know, very plainly targeted for women sort of watch. And then this was a surprise. This was a caliber 115, which is Oris's sort of in-house hand winding, 10 day power reserve skeletonized movement, right? So just a very different way to go. This is also a much larger watch. I believe it is forty two or forty three millimeters. Yeah. Something along the |
| Andy Binkley | bigger. It's much larger than the regular Pro |
| Tantan Wang | Pilot X. And you know, though the way they've done it is they've given the bridges sort of a gonzo color scheme. Uh there's a chili pepper as a power reserve indicator as an homage to and no one talks about Gonzo's fashion is like fashion sense is amazing. Like those those uh Jim Henson Studios people, like they were they were giving them some great outfits. But anyway, I digress. Um, if you wind sort of the main spring all the way to the 10 days of power reserve, you sort of see Gonzo's uh face appear as it's sort of etched on every um every little bit of the edge of this uh this mainspring. And you know, it's a very subtle way of of doing this. I think every time they've created this Muppets edition, everyone's been like, I want to see more of the Muppets. And yeah, they kind of, you know, they kind of tease you with with not really. Um, but as a result, though, I think, you know, they've created something entirely different. Uh unfortunately, it is a lot more expensive than the other editions we've seen. This is a over 10,000 US dollar watch. You know, the the base 115 Pro Ballot X was around the same price. So it's not, you know, it's not a huge markup per se, but it's kind of bold, I would say, to release a significantly larger and significantly more expensive Muppets themed auris. That is, you know, I think a very hard thing to imagine as a as a uh sort of you know if you're on in the drawing board, you know, um phase of this to reach that conclusion is kind of interesting to me. Um but you know, general reactions have been largely positive, which is actually much uh much more surprising than I thought, right? I think maybe most of the feedback I've seen is, you know, everything is lovely except for the price. Less people have complained about the size than I would have imagined. But yes, it's it's an interesting watch. Certainly not for everyone, and maybe even more, even less so than the than the other editions, but as sort of non-Muppets fans, I'm curious what you guys what you guys think of uh such a thing. |
| Tim Jeffries | I I prefer for me the Kermit uh of the of the of the Muppets watches um but I think just simply it's a little big for me. I've got a I've got a small wrist, but I do love the the subtle nod to |
| Tim Jeffries | Mr. Gonzo himself on the uh on |
| Andy Binkley | Is it Mr. Oh |
| Tim Jeffries | excuse me. Excuse me. uh Mr. Gonzo also works. Uh a nod |
| Tim Jeffries | to Gonzo himself uh there. |
| Tim Jeffries | Um but yeah, a little big for me. Um but I |
| Tim Jeffries | do I do appreciate the sentiment and |
| Tim Jeffries | I I do love and I completely agree that |
| Tim Jeffries | with the fact that uh Oris is the brand do this out of collaboration. |
| Andy Binkley | Yeah. yeah, for sure. I really enjoyed and was surprised and was really happy to see in person that twenty nine millimeter uh pointer date, uh it with that black dial. That's a that's a pretty little watch and just classic. Aaron Powell |
| Tantan Wang | I think what Oris has kind of done well with that kind of stuff in recent years is you know, I looked at that watch and I think I said this uh in front of you and you guys and and Rolf uh Rolf the CEO, not the top dog. Yeah. Um |
| Tim Jeffries | that um uh you know |
| Tantan Wang | something just so charming about that that small sort of pointer date is that it almost feels like you could have found that at a vintage watch dealer or you know at in someone's you know old collection. And |
| Andy Binkley | I kind of love that. There's something classic, |
| Tantan Wang | really almost timeless about that kind of stuff that they're pursuing. And I don't think they get enough credit for that. |
| Andy Binkley | Yeah. I mean and Oris, you know, it's interesting. I think, you know, and a a a a theme though here that we've been talking about is about value and and sort of you know, other than than than bulgary, um really um talking about sort of entry and and and mid-level um sort of stuff. and Aurus, you know, in reaction to the shifts in the market has really, as you say, leaned into that, you know, more of the Salida Bay stuff as opposed to the um caliber four hundred and um and tried to meet the customer where they are at this time. So uh so yeah no I think we you know we love Oris and and they always uh continue to surprise and and and do great stuff and they're great folks and and it's always fun at their in their suite at the Beau Rivage. So uh for sure. And then we saw Doxa today. Um, you know, my reaction there. I mean you know and Doxa just kinda it it's interesting. I wanna I wanted you to talk about like Tintin, 'cause I know you're you're a bit of a fan and like how it it is amazing how Doxa just keeps coming out with sort of new collections and new stuff and you're just like, yeah. I'm I mean I I'm maybe I'm not done with Doxa. This is like another reason to buy yet another. I mean, but you know, that um 300 in titanium, um that case, and and I, you know, just got my first DOXA, the DOXA 200T Army, the Hadinki edition, which uh I'm super happy about unlove, but man, that this titanium is it a is it a |
| Tim Jeffries | is it a double dock to sell her for Andy? I |
| Andy Binkley | mean did I think about you know maybe |
| Tantan Wang | wanting to buy one of the orange you know professionals uh right after that meeting maybe i don't know |
| Tim Jeffries | i think there's this unique phenomenon look like doxa |
| Tantan Wang | is a brand where if you don't sort of get it or you don't really it doesn't appeal to you, you really don't like it, right I? think it's just like you don't care about it unless you do, you know, which is kind of a silly statement to make. But I think it's, you know, it's one of those brands where you have to be sort of be a part of that enthusiast mindset with, you know, their designs. It's very specific, um, obviously with the the cushion cases and whatnot. But I uh you know I was musing about this theory that I kind of came up with, which is that Doxa has almost cultivated this unique sort of phenomenon where if in any other brand you would be saying, hey, I'm gonna buy basically, you know, the same watch in a maybe a slightly smaller or slightly bigger case, but it's the same case design, it's the same bezel design, it's the same bracelet and strap designs, and the dials are all the same and in the same color sets. You would be out of your mind, right? Like you'd be like, what the hell are you on? And yet, like, I don't know. When I go into a room full of, you know, Doxas, that mindset just gets abandoned. I throw it to the wayside and I'm like, yeah, I could buy like I could, |
| Tim Jeffries | I could see myself owning a suitcase of these. I I definitely get into an abundance mindset when I think of doxa. |
| Tantan Wang | Yeah, it's it's weird and I like like it's so such an irrational thing, right? Because it's like in logic, this just doesn't make any sense, and yet this is what I guess makes us a little giddy about Doxa sometimes. But that product is so solid. I mean, you know, obviously a lot of people want to see a full titanium bracelet, but I think it's very clear that that would shoot up the price to a point where not many people would want to pay for a dock set like this. But, you know, again, there's something about the slightly larger 300 case, but mixed with the the ultra-lightness of titanium where you know Andy, you and I and and even Tim, you know, we don't have the largest wrists, right? Certainly not on the team. And yet I think for us, even though we enjoy sort of the 200, the smaller 200 case, something about the lightness of the this 300 works so well. |
| Andy Binkley | Yeah. Right. I think it feels |
| Tantan Wang | so good and quite proper. And maybe it's also because it's on a strap that, you know, it doesn't flare out and you know drops immediately down because it doesn't come on the integrated strap, right? It comes on the the sort of uh tropic style, if you will. Um, because I'm su I'm sure m machining a titanium ratcheting class would also add an insane amount to the cost, right? So that's I think the the decision there. But this seems like something people have been asking for for a while now. Yeah. |
| Tim Jeffries | For me, you know, as you're talking to |
| Tim Jeffries | Tanta, I was reflecting like why why is it that we |
| Tim Jeffries | and and and it speaks to it |
| Tim Jeffries | speaks to dox's level of I think just like marketing and knowing themselves and being able to deliver like you know obviously they do the L E like the the you know the Clive Cluster, um uh uh just you know obviously one watch, but this is an array of colors, five colors. |
| Tim Jeffries | And I gotta say, now I I |
| Tim Jeffries | like for me personally, I prefer the blue, but |
| Tim Jeffries | I could see myself in every single one of |
| Tim Jeffries | them. Yeah. and I can't it's very rare for me to go into a meeting or whatever that have |
| Tim Jeffries | multiple colors, two, maybe three, |
| Tim Jeffries | definitely not five. Yeah. And be like, I want all of these. Like, what is it about Doxa that does that to us. |
| Tim Jeffries | I'm not gonna say me to us. Like you're |
| Tim Jeffries | not the only one that wanted the doxa. I got my first Doxa a couple weeks ago as well. Same watch. You know, |
| Tantan Wang | and and you know what I say to that? God damn it, James Stacy. |
| Tim Jeffries | It's all James.. It's all James |
| Tantan Wang | Damn it, James Stacey. Well I I |
| Tim Jeffries | I wore a doxa. I wore a Doxa for a weekend with James at his c at his cottage and and I was I |
| Tim Jeffries | was sold on it then. And |
| Tim Jeffries | I just it just strikes a court and if you get it, you get it. And I feel like if you don't get it, put one on. |
| Tantan Wang | Yeah. And then find your favorite |
| Tim Jeffries | color, put it on for a weekend, and then tell me you don't love that thing. Seriously. |
| Andy Binkley | Yep. Speaking of maybe the complete |
| Tantan Wang | polar opposite of um sort of things coming in very similar shapes and sizes. Um I think something interesting that we also saw was the the the new Mad 3, right? Uh |
| Andy Binkley | Exactly. Yeah, I was just gonna bring that up. Um uh which you wrote up and you actually went hands-on with yeah, I got to have a a a pretty in interesting in-depth conversation with Max uh while we were there and. it's just fascinating to me from a business perspective what MB and F has sort of done with uh the MAT additions. But at the same time they will tell you and and I and I believe them that, you know, this was not a business uh move. This was a creative uh challenge that they had to compete in that sort of entry level or or uh mid-level uh price point. But yeah, talk about the um the Mad 3 edition. I |
| Tantan Wang | mean, you know, pad we we start reading patterns, you know, after we get sort of three uh you know data points here. and you know, there's a lot of big takeaways, you know, and and before we get to those, obviously just explain a a little about the background. This is um sort of this |
| Tim Jeffries | is a little different from the the first |
| Tantan Wang | two, or rather a lot different in the sense that, you know, this is a watchmaker that hadn't really been involved in anything MBNF before. You know, the first one was obviously Max Boosters. Um, the second one was Eric Gerud's and and this is a true. Yeah, like people that have you know designed cases, you know, like uh Eric has been, you know, uh has his hands behind a lot of MBNF since its conception, but this is a tribute and collaboration to uh a washmaker called Vincent Calabrese. And you know, I think what's interesting is this guy's a this guy's a legend, right, in the washmaking community, but he's not a household name in the way that a lot of the other greats are. This guy co-founded the AHCI was Sven Anderson, you know. This guy has is the one behind their sort of iconic quorum golden bridge uh movement. You know, that is one of the most iconic sort of movements, you know, anyone's ever seen. just hasn't gotten the same limelight that a lot of other people have. And what this specific watch is is a tribute to his model called The Balladon, which is a wandering jump hours watch. And, you know, I think what's also interesting is that this is so similar to the Balladon, |
| Tim Jeffries | right? You know, of course there's a lot of sort of modernization |
| Tantan Wang | that comes into play. There's a lot of small, very MB and F twists, but from afar, it looks really similar. Those dials are almost entirely the same. And I think that's very curious because even the first two editions, while you know, the they have very distinct design identities, those were new creations, right? This feels so different because it's the least original thing we've seen from this brand so far. And you know, what that also does mean is this is by far the most wearable |
| Andy Binkley | and the most sort of conventional watch we've |
| Tantan Wang | seen. Um and in in my hands-on, I sort of, you know, I you know my my thesis uh so to speak is that there is an inverse proportion to how crazy the mad editions are, and actually how commercially popular uh they are. And I think that's been proven again with this, which they've been very open. They haven't shared numbers, but they've they basically said this is by far the biggest mad Editions launch in terms of raffle signups they've seen. And I think that's a pretty big takeaway, right? Where, you know, obviously I was a little disappointed initially because it doesn't have the same, you know, lining a bottle, oh, I've never seen this. If there's anything to to ding against the watch, is that this one is one that feels like maybe another brand could have also done uh similarly, right? But that also means that this is by far the most wearable thing. And, you know, people people love it. You know, in the the people that like the Mad One, you know, obviously maybe feel like it's a little, you know, safer. But otherwise, I mean, you guys also had a chance, I think, to to briefly see it. But you know, it's it's a cool thing. Again, they're keeping what they're doing is they're showing that this is a platform, not a design identity, right? This is not a horological machine collection where you know they're going for space age aesthetics and and whatnot. This is um this is just we will do anything, but the common link is the price point, right? Every single Mad Editions has been 2900 CHF and. you know, obviously for us Americans, it's kind of painful because we remember what those converted to in USD, you know, a few years back, but you know, from the Swiss side, that's been the same. And I think this is why it's been so successful and a big revenue driver for MBNF, right? |
| Andy Binkley | Absolutely. Big revenue driver. But also but what they're trying also, um and you know, in our discussions they were they were saying though is like, you know, and we were speaking to to to the other Max, the new designer who we will um be hearing more and more about over the years and we'll have take more of a hand. But you know, this is actually more of a challenge, obviously. It's more of a design challenge. I would with an HM, you can kind of go wherever you want. And uh and here there are parameters, particularly with price. And so that makes it um and so the only thing I think from their perspective is indeed the the demand is growing and and um the viability of mat ed additions is being more and more proven. But um uh if there's a c concern there is how much kind of time their you know, man hours work, uh that they're all spending on this stuff because it's not easy. Uh it takes uh a lot of creative uh design time and and thought to do it. |
| Tim Jeffries | I think for me, you know, we are in the business of watches |
| Tim Jeffries | podcasts. So I'm I'm I want to come at this from a business lens. I I think that the whole concept of the Mad Editions is absolutely genius. Like it's really smart. Obviously, you know, you get allocated one first if you you've you've you've bought MBNF in previous, but there is a raffle, right? And so you see, you know, if you're if you're |
| Tim Jeffries | MBNF curious, you can maybe opt in for |
| Tim Jeffries | raffle, get one, and then like get it on the wrist for a while |
| Tim Jeffries | and see see how you like it and then and then |
| Tim Jeffries | potentially maybe upgrade to something else you |
| Tim Jeffries | know bigger down the line. And |
| Tim Jeffries | I I think it's really, really smart. It's just a really smart business |
| Tim Jeffries | model. And I think that in speaking with the brand, um, I think |
| Tim Jeffries | this one sp specifically with the the |
| Tim Jeffries | overwhelming demand for number three is like, |
| Tim Jeffries | all right, they're on to something here and and obviously, you know, maybe a little more reserved in their design than previous models, but I think that like |
| Tim Jeffries | maybe that's by intention, right? And it's like, okay, |
| Tim Jeffries | we want to see like in mass, how many folks that we can get. Like just 'cause you know, we want to bring more people |
| Tim Jeffries | into the ecosystem and it's like, you know, |
| Tim Jeffries | runs are very limited with MB and F and |
| Tim Jeffries | like if if I love the brand, like maybe this is a a great entry point at at five K Swiss francs. I think it's a really interesting business model and I'm curious to see, |
| Tim Jeffries | maybe first and foremost, if it'll be another few |
| Tim Jeffries | years before we see the next one of these. |
| Andy Binkley | Uh well, I think we're gonna see more soon. I think this is gonna be a more regular uh thing. And I think um we're gonna start to see real uh shifts in terms of design and maybe we'll start seeing some different K shapes. And I think it yeah, I mean I think it's actually going to go in some really interesting places. And then as you say, on the MB and F side, if anything, you know, they make about 400 watches a year, right? and and they're not looking to grow that, uh those volume numbers. And if anything, they're you know, thinking about ways to to to keep it there or maybe even cut it. But you know, that they're not gonna do that. I I think it's gonna stay um where it is. But I mean indeed, yeah, it's really interesting. It's really just yeah, as you say, you know, it's surprising and and we do always wanna see well, what have they done here? And yeah, there's gonna be more. It's just it it it it's it's gonna continue. Look, gents, we've been doing this for about an hour. let's wrap this up, but we gotta talk about uh a a brand that I guess wasn't you know in a launch that wasn't officially part of Geneva Watch Days, but that is the new edition of the Tudor North flag, which we found out it's now uh OneWord and uh but also has a GMT. Um you we got uh um spend some time uh with the folks at Ture at the boutique and and uh you know take a look at the new model and go hands-on with it and also you know compare it to the model from twenty fifteen, which is a really important piece for uh for Tudor. And um you know and and the pricing uh I think of the the Swiss pricing is forty five hundred uh Swiss francs for this. You know, that's that's kind of aggressive in terms of um uh the value there. Um yeah. What would would tell me your your takeaways, your thoughts first |
| Tim Jeffries | of all I didn't know North Lag was one word. Uh so that was uh that was |
| Andy Binkley | it wasn't uh two words, |
| Tantan Wang | capital A and capital F. And then that was the first thing I noticed when I saw the first image. I was |
| Tim Jeffries | like, what the hell? Like am I hallucinating or is this and then |
| Tantan Wang | yeah, it turns out they changed it. So they changed work. |
| Tim Jeffries | You know, I I think it's a nice evolution from the uh |
| Tim Jeffries | initial one in 2015. Obviously, the the big |
| Tim Jeffries | power reserve indicator. I don't think you know, I like I love |
| Tim Jeffries | the inclusion of the GMT versus that. |
| Tim Jeffries | A little big for me personally. |
| Tim Jeffries | Again, I got this felt wrist size. |
| Tim Jeffries | I got to be protective over that. And I wish I could wear more, but I can't. But I I do like the evolution of there. I think it's interesting just to see them do this |
| Tim Jeffries | uh now. Um I couldn't |
| Tim Jeffries | have predicted this coming out, honestly. I don't really have much more to say other than that. I I I I'm not I'm yeah. Yeah, like |
| Tantan Wang | I, you know, uh the for me, I think I hold a very maybe skewed opinion because I I've gotten so close to buying that original North Flag so many times. It was actually my first ever tutor I was debating between the North flag and the Pelagos, and the Pelagos ended up winning. But I love the original North Flag because it to me it was like a cyberpunk Roleck Explorer. You know, it was sort of this weird, you know, obviously they cite, you know, they cite the Ranger 2, the two to Ranger 2 as the inspiration, you know, like it's |
| Tim Jeffries | very it's very different, right? Like Raider 2 |
| Tantan Wang | didn't have 369, you know, on did not. No. And so, you know, I think the new North flag, or do I have to say it faster now that it's one word? North North North flag? Um it's |
| Tim Jeffries | it feels a little safer uh as a |
| Tantan Wang | more I think broader commercial play than the first first one. The first one looked weird when it came out, right? And you know, not only was it I believe the first modern tutor to have an open case back uh showing off the Kinesi movement. |
| Andy Binkley | Because it would but it was the first uh uh tutor to have an in-house made movement. |
| Tantan Wang | That's right. That would that that would make sense. It was it was that had you know obviously the power reserve and you know uh the for me the weirdest thing was the sort of ceramic um ring around the bezel not on the bezel around the bezel right almost like a like a cone or a volcano of sorts. But this, you know, loses a lot of that quirkiness, right? For I think what is a broader commercial play. And I think it excites me less because it's not as bizarre as the |
| Tim Jeffries | first North flag, so to speak. But at the |
| Tantan Wang | same time, I can totally see this appealing to Wimber people, like you said. Um, the this is the same GMT movement that's used in the FXD, the Pelagos FXD GMT. And so this is, I think, just a more, you know, not everyone likes fixed lugs and a and sort of a bulky strap, you know, on top of that. And I think this on the sort of integrated bracelet is is very much a play for the other side of people that want sort of a modern tutor rendition of a of a traveler's watch. so all that being said, you know, again, like you know, a lot of the visual cues, the yellow, I always love the yellow. I think it's a great play that's that's just in quotes not orange, right? And I think the orange, you know, a lot of brands love doing that, but yellow is sort of a um slept on color. Yeah, things are great. I don't like the the new North flag name. It needed a space in there. And that's gonna bother me to the end of time. Okay. Um, unfortunately. And I'm I'm working on a hands-on sort of as we speak, so I'm sitting with my thoughts, kind of, you know, uh thinking a little bit more on it. But again, I think in the same way that I'm less excited because of I liked how weird the first one was. In that same vein, I see so many more people being more excited about this one because it's a much more sort of digestible watch. |
| Andy Binkley | So yeah, I mean I think that sort of puts a uh a a dot on the on the whole thing we've been talking about, which is about you know more commercial, uh pretty aggressive pricing in terms of uh appealing to a wider audience, um making sure that we're selling watches. But yeah, I mean, you know, I've always loved the North Flag in concept and in what it was trying to do. And but you know, this is this is still a North flag and it's still cool and but yeah, it's a little it's a little more uh thoughtful in terms of um commercial appeal and and I think they'll do they'll do just fine with it. And uh yeah, I mean I've been on the record about my thoughts about yellow. but I mean, you know, |
| Tim Jeffries | you're pro bumblebee. He likes |
| Tantan Wang | to see the guts get ripped out after the stater. |
| Tim Jeffries | Is basically what Andy's trying to say. Got it. Got it. I'm |
| Andy Binkley | team orange. But uh but you know, look, um it's a it's a it's great to see Tudor though, you know, taking swings and doing uh new stuff. And man, you know, there's just a a lot of choice there now and and and uh you know we're gonna see more. So yeah, it's been um you know we still got some more stuff to do to uh tomorrow. We're gonna see Ming and uh and all those um folks from the um what uh do we call their um The Alternative Horological |
| Tantan Wang | Alliance. Indeed. |
| Andy Binkley | And um so that's gonna be really fun. But yeah, it's been fantastic to have you guys on the Binusess of Watches podcast. And yeah, that was uh that was great. And it's been fun to uh to d to do this this week. And uh thanks for coming on. Thanks, |
| Tim Jeffries | Andy. Thanks for having us. Fondue time it it is, |
| Andy Binkley | believe it or not, yes, at the uh end of August, beginning of September. It's fun due time. And that's the business of watches for this episode We hope you enjoyed. Please head on over to Hodinkee.com where you can join the discussion and leave any comments or questions about this episode or the business of watches in general. Who knows? We might even answer your question on a future episode. Thanks for listening and see you next time. |