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Hannah Elliott & Magnus Walker

Published on Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:00:00 +0000

You'll be hard pressed to find two more passionate and interesting people than this car-loving power couple.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent welcomes automotive journalist Hannah Elliott and Porsche enthusiast Magnus Walker for the show's first-ever two-guest format. Hannah, currently writing for Bloomberg, brings her critical perspective as a professional automotive journalist who covers luxury cars, watches, and lifestyle topics. Magnus approaches cars from an entirely different angle—as a passionate collector and modifier of Porsches who came to automotive fame after a successful career in the clothing industry. The two met years ago at a Bentley event and have since become partners, with Magnus often joining Hannah on press trips and test drives around the world.

The conversation explores the contrasts between their approaches to cars: Hannah as a critic focused on accuracy, fairness, and serving readers, versus Magnus as an enthusiast chasing dreams and memorable experiences. Magnus shares stories of his extensive Porsche collection, including rare early 911s like his 1964 model (car number 174 of only 232 made), and discusses his goal of owning one example of every sports car Porsche has ever produced. He's not a purist about modifications, believing each car determines whether it should be modified based on its history and originality. Hannah discusses the challenges of automotive journalism, including the time Lexus refused to loan her cars after a negative review, and emphasizes that her responsibility is to readers, not automakers. The episode also touches on their shared interests in watches, with Magnus revealing an upcoming collaboration with Porsche Design, and concludes with discussions about how social media has accelerated enthusiast communities and compressed trends in collecting culture.

Transcript

Speaker
Unknown Bonnie and Clyde. Beyoncé and Jay-Z. There's nothing quite like a good old-fashioned power couple. And personally, I think it's about time that we add today's guests, Hannah and Magnus, to that list. Hannah Elliott is a car writer and critic currently writing for Bloomberg, where, full disclosure, we were coworkers for the better part of two years. Before that, though, she was at Forbes, where she wrote about cars, watches, travel, you know, basically all that fun stuff that we love over here at Hodinky. She's a serious journalist who isn't afraid to be brutally honest when she needs to be, but she also brings genuine passion to a beat that sometimes is a little bit lacking in enthusiasm. Magnus Walker, on the other hand, approaches cars from an entirely different angle. After a successful career in the clothing world, Magnus has become the don of Porsche collecting, modifying, and of course, driving. Through his North English accent, you can hear how excited he is as he rattles off chassis numbers and his favorite routes for driving particular cars. In some ways he's a purist, and in other ways he's an iconoclast. Sometimes, though, he's both at once. In our first ever two for one episode, I sat down with both Hannah and Magnus, and we were joined by Hodinki founder Ben Clymer too. We talked about the differences between approaching cars as a critic and an enthusiast, why Porsche casts such a heavy spell on auto lovers, and why what's really worth collecting is not just the physical things, but the memorable moments you spend with them. I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinky Radio. This week's episode is brought to you by Beaum and Mercier. Stay tuned later in the show for a look at the Clifton Boehmatic Cosk, a high-tech chronometer that offers phenomenal value for money. You can also learn more at boehmmercier.com. Alright. Thank you guys for being here. It's good to see you. Haven't you Hannah in a long time and good to finally meet you in in uh in person, Magnus.
Unknown It's a good place to start. Should we link to a photo of
Unknown Cray's hair in the show notes? Should we do that? We probably should. Yeah. Cool. Well, this is the first time I think we've had two guests on the show at once. Oh. Double trouble. Yeah. But seems to make sense for you guys. Yeah. We're a package deal. Two for one special
Unknown . At this point, yeah. It's pretty good. Rambling Beirdo and Weirdo. Beirdo and Weirdo. Yeah, is the going phrase. That's the name of
Unknown today's show, Beardo and Weirdo. Well, you guys met through the car world, which is where you both work, but you work in the car world in kind of very different capacities. Uh I thought maybe we could start if you guys could each kind of give us a little bit of background about who you are, how you ended up in the car world, and then kind of how the two of you two of you met. Ladies first
Unknown . Okay, well, I'm a journalist. I um came up with no car background whatsoever. I'm a I'm a journalist who happens to write about cars is how I say it. Magnus is a true enthusiast. I'm someone who is in the car world for a living for my career. Um and and it's great. Um but I I'm a journalist. I studied journalism at Baylor and and came up at Forbes magazine, which is I knew Ben way, way back in the day. When when he was still a banker or just getting out of banking. Something like that. Yeah. Um when I was working at Forbes writing about um luxury things, but a lot of cars too. So that's kind of kind of what I do. And you were writing about watches a bit back then too. Cars, I mean watches, motorcycles, jewelry, beauty, items, travel, adventure. I mean, all of the things that you want to spend your money on are the things that I write about. And even it's funny because when I started, it was my title was um lifestyle reporter. Okay. And that included everything. And that's kind of what I knew and loved, but over the years it's gradually become more and more and more cars, which is really interesting, and it's not anything I planned, but it's just happened. Um and it's great, you know, I I don't come from a car background at all, but at this point I've I've covered them so much that it's it's really fun. I love it. Second nature Aaron Powell
Unknown And also a little known fact about Hannah Elliott is she was also the editor of a literature and book blog at Forbes. And she was greatly write for
Unknown . totally forgot about that but it's really true. That is true. And I think one of the reasons why Ben and I get along so well is because yes we have like this thing that we're known for for, which is for Ben it's watches, for me it's cars. But actually we're interested in a whole bunch of things and Magnus too and I'll let him talk about that later but like we have a specialty but actually we're interested in a lot of things and it all kind of goes together. Um it's I love seeing how culture and literature and everything else influences cars. Um you know, I think the most boring person is someone who's only interested in one thing. You know, so I love like being around people who are interested in a lot of things and maybe that informs their one passion. But um yeah, that's true. I forgot about that. Yeah. That was a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah
Unknown . I remember actually the first time Hannah, I think I think it's the first time we met was early hodinky days. We Ben and I were just like working away. He got a phone call and he goes, All right, we gotta go. Come with me. And I was like, okay, what's going on? And we walked outside and you pulled up in an R eight. Yeah. Oh yeah. The first R eight and the keys and we went cruising on the West Side Highway and I was like, wait a minute, this is my job? Like this is what I'm doing. Yeah, that's really true. Yeah
Unknown . And I mean Ben and I have I I remember you telling me you were gonna go look at a green Porsche. Yeah. Like a green old Porsche. And then it got to the point of where like we went to this garage on the West Side Highway and drove and it's a whole thing. And it's it's great because the cars are like entry points into memory that you have with people. And in the end it's not even about the car, it's about the memory, it's about the person, blah, blah, blah. But the car is the entry point into it, which I really love too. But I totally forgot about that. Yeah, early early days.arly days Yeah, e
Unknown . Yeah. Yeah. And then Hannah and I met when I was still writing about cars for Askmen.com. Which was a thing. Still is a thing, yes. Exactly. I shouldn't say that actually. For Ask Men dot com. They were like the number one like men's web they had like ten million uniques in a month, like way back like ten years ago, you know? And I was covering uh Bentley, which is where we met. Exactly. The
Unknown news Continental Super Sports. And we kind of gravitated to each other because we were the only ones under like forty five or so on that. That's exactly right. And I was definitely the only female and it was just like, Oh let's talk. Let's going to be normal somewhere. Yeah, and and and and I say that with love because I love the Bentley team. This was a long time this was a long time ago. Rural Britannia. Rural Britannia. Um but yeah, great, you know, like minds find each other, I think. And that's also why I love New York City, because it's a big city, but it's really not like if you're here for a while, you just kind of gravitate toward people with the same mentality. And now I mean just the fact that you worked at Bloomberg and now we have this partnership and I mean it's the it's a
Unknown very small world. Yeah, full disclosure, Hannah and I worked together for I guess what, like a year and a half at at Bloomberg as part of the pursuits uh team over there. What was Steven like as a coworker? Great. Be honest. See? He was terrific.
Unknown He was the exact thing that I want from a coworker, which is good hair. Super nice. Yeah. Super nice. Really fun, like good energy, not never mean or like bitter anything, but also like not not overly anything. Like not overly anything. I love it. Not overly anything. I just wanna like get in, do my work, like be normal, and then leave. And like it was the perfect perfect. That team was good at that. Uh ter
Unknown rific. Yeah. And still is. Yeah. Yeah. There and Chris says hi. Oh by the way. Thank you. I saw him in Geneva recently. We were talking about how how few of that original team is still. I know, I know. But all doing good things
Unknown . All doing great things. I mean it's a good I think it's a good I miss them, like Tejol, for instance. O fourod critic um went to the New York Times. You can't argue with that. I think um others have gone to the New Yorker. I mean it's quite a distinguished group who have left. So that's a good sign too. Yeah.
Unknown Yeah. So Magnus, you're you you did not come to the car world as a journalist. I don't know. No, I'm just an enthusiast man with a beard. Had a dream of the bigger enthusi
Unknown astic guys with beard.ah, Ye yeah, you know. So so whole group is what I call the BBMC, the bearded brotherman club. Yeah. Now I I'm just a dreamer that you know, loved cars as a kid, had the poster on the wall and still an enthusiast, you know, well over forty years later. So that's sort of the So that's that's the key to cars. You know, I think we all speak the language of the car. I often say we all speak Porsche, but uh I think what brings everyone together is the thrill of the chase of the car. Like Hannah said earlier on, the memorable moments that bring people together, because without the people the car is just what I call an appliance, it never moves. So, you know, people always like to tell me stories about their cars and uh I'm generally interested in cars with high miles because they've got a lot of interesting stories. People that love to show me cars with fifty miles that have never been driven. That's not quite as interesting uh for me. But uh I've been able to able to travel all over the world and do some interesting drives in interesting places. Perhaps one of the most interesting ones was last year in Australia. Drove across the Simpson Desert, 3,500 kilometers, most of it off-road, across this thing called uh the Big Red, the Simpson Desert, Uluru. So that was kind of challenging doing all seven continents and that was the kickoff, essentially driving around the world. One of the more interesting ones was also in a Porsche Cayenne that was from uh down in Colombia, from Bogota to Medellin. That was a real memorable drive. That one was pretty exciting. That sounded hairy. Yeah, yeah, that one was pretty hairy in person. No pun intended. And perhaps one of the craziest ones was um down in the Dominican Republic. 'Cause that's kinda like a free for all down there. You know, I describe my driving style as spirited, but down there it's kind of out of control, you know. It really is a free for all. There are no speed limits it seems and the road surfaces are not great and you never know literally what is around the corner. Could be four people on the back of a moped or seven people getting out of a taxi with goats and sheep and all types of interesting things. So uh certainly spirited driving down there and uh I just like fun drives and enjoying the car world is essentially my story. Spending a lot of time here with Hannah in New York. I'm on a current crusade. We just got back from Miami, so I'm chasing uh chasing a slant-nosed Porsche. I've looked at a lot of them. That was the first Porsche I ever bought when I was um twenty-five. So I've owned a lot of nine eleven's over the past what is that, twenty-seven years. Bought the first one back in nineteen ninety two when I was twenty-five. You know, I had a dream. I was a ye 10ar old. I had the poster on the wall. The story's pretty familiar. But for those that don't know, my dad took me to the London Olds Court Motor Show in 1977. I had the white martini turbo on the wall. And I actually wrote a letter to Porsche as a 10-arye old and said, Hey, I'd love to design cars for you. And back then, you know, they wrote letters back to people and said, hey, essentially callers when you're older. And I never gave up on that dream. Eventually owned my first Porsche at the age of 25. And that represented sort of a dream come true, personal accomplishment, and ultimately a sense of freedom. And literally 41 years after I saw that car, I actually got to drive it. Last October, I went back to England and uh did something I'd never done, which was drive a Porsche in my hometown of Sheffield, and got to make a video with the exact car that I fell in love with Porsche back in nineteen seventy-seven for Porsche's uh YouTube channel. So that was what I call a memorable moment. And I think that's what, you know, sort of brings people together is the memorable moments and the stories that we share throughout the car. You know, the car is just the uh the vehicle that takes you on the journey of life. So did did that car live up to the dream
Unknown ? That's a good question. It's a great great question. I love it. When a journalist tells you you asked a good question, that's that's when it feels good. The honest answer
Unknown is no. The car wasn't the car wasn't running. That's an even better answer by that. Yeah, I mean the story behind it in the video, the car had a fuel pump issue. So it literally wouldn't really rev above a thousand uh probably fifteen hundred RPM without cutting out and stalling. So it was tricky to drive the car because it literally would just stall, wouldn't really idle. So that really affected the video and the nature of the video. The video came out I think pretty great 'cause it's pretty moody. It's really the story of never giving up on the dream. I think that's a relatable story that a lot of people have also shared with me. Um so to answer the question, no, but I find a lot of cars are sometimes like that. Never meet your heroes. Yes a little bit like meeting your rock star heroes. You know, I was just down in Miami on this slant nose quest and drove a few cars down there, which in theory looked awesome, but in practicality didn't quite drive that way. So sometimes less is more, but um I'm still searching, so the quest never ends, the journey continues
Unknown . So how have you found that that each other's approaches have kind of impacted how you each do your job? Because I would imagine that you, know, it's it's in some ways you want to kind of like focus on on your perspective and what you're doing, but you have this very other perspective there. How how does that work for you guys
Unknown ? Well to clarify, I actually don't have an automotive job. That's Hannah's B, you know, for me this thing's a hobby. It's an out of control hobby, but um for clarification I'm a collector and I'm enthusiast. I don't build I don't build cars for other people. I build cards for myself. I seldom sell cars. So for me, uh I just tag along with Hannah with her plus one getting to drive all these super exciting cars that I'm not a bad way to live like. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, I carry the bags and uh join in on the journey. So uh for me it's been great spending a lot of time with Hannah over the past 18 months, getting to see parts of the world I've never seen before. And uh I have the freedom to travel, so I travel with Hannah quite a bit, and sometimes I'm able to uh get her to join me on some of my dreams
Unknown Well I'll I'll ask you, maybe you've seen the inside of other automakers that you wouldn't normally have seen. Ye
Unknown ah, I mean to me it's all about variety. I've driven a lot of supercars, you know, stuff that I'm not really interested in owning, but I've driven them. You know, someone says do you want to drive a Pagani Wirre, su I'll go drive that car. I think one of my most memorable, let's call it non Porsche drive moments, was in Miami about eighteen months ago in a Ferrari F forty, which is you know top five, I think, dream car for anybody, you know. Doesn't matter what you're into. I think the F-40 is at least top ten for a lot of people. So for me that was a real memorable spirited drive. I happened to get pulled over by the uh Miami Police Department. Uh it was like one too many runs over Key Biscayne uh Boulevard, the bridge there down into Key Biscayne in Miami. And another fun story. It was a friend of a friend acquaintance, what I call OPC, other people's cars, and this happened to be on Dealer place. Got it. No paperwork. I couldn't find any insurance. I was on a California driver's license. It was uh looking a little bit sticky for a few minutes, uh, but in the end we got away with Well, you're very charming. We got away with no things
Unknown . To answer your question from my side, I think the great thing about being around Magnus for my job is that I see what a real enthusiast is versus people who are in the industry. I'm used to talking to people who are in this in the industry who are, you know, executives, PR people, designers, all of that. With magnets, you see how an enthusiast consumes cars, it's quite different than people who are paid to be around cars. So that's been really um informative and good and it's forced me to slow down and to um see things kind of on the s edges. 'Cause as a journalist I'm pretty like just going in, I've got my thing, I do talk to my people, I do da-da-da-da-da. Very single-minded. With Magnus being around a true enthusiast, you kind of start to see peripheral things that I would have definitely missed as a journalist Are we allowed to talk about cars? Can we
Unknown go deep on cars? Yeah, we can go deep on cars. Okay, so the F-40. Somebody told me this this past weekend that the F-40 feels like the fastest car you'll ever drive. Because it's like right before things got kind of digital and and with with uh you know It's an intoxicating drive
Unknown . Don't tell nobody, but at one time I owned a three oh eight GTB Ferrari. Oh wow. I jokingly call it the poor man's Ferrari when it was a twenty grand car. Sure. And the F forty, in a strange way, was like a three oh eight GTB on steroids. Meaning that when you get in it, it wasn't really that much different. It was raw, obviously it was a lot faster, but it wasn't really difficult to drive, let's say, like a Porsche Crera GT, where you're constantly a little bit edgy. So for me, the Ferrari th um F forty was familiar and it just had a real big wallet, but it wasn't by today's standards, you know, what's it got, four fifty horsepower, something like that? I mean today you can go buy a you know, a Mopar off the showroom floor with s eight hundred horsepower so hell cat. So you know the Frari's 30 years old. Um I wouldn't say it's the fastest car I've ever driven. I would say it's one of the most intoxicating cars I've ever driven where you just didn't want to get out of it. The Carrera GT is the same way. For me, the Picani Wire wasn't like that. You know, I drove a Lamborghini Coon Tash. That wasn't like that. You know, I think any kid growing up anywhere in the world in the late 70s, early 80s, chances are you had three posters on your wall. Pretty common story. Porsche Turbo, Ferrari F40, or Berlinetta Boxer, or possibly Lamborghini Countash. So someone said to me, you know, you want to drive in the Lamborghini Countash? Sure, no problem. But everything about it was awkward, you know, it wasn't fast, it felt heavy, visibility wasn't great, pedal position wasn't great, you couldn't heel and toe, the steering was off. And then you go get in a 9-11 of the same era, and everything's organically, ergonomically where it needs to be. Visibility's great, the pedal setup's great. So to answer your question on the F40, if you ever get a chance to drive it, because it is a super intoxicating car, I actually really want to drive the 288 GTO. You know, I sort of want to drive that evolution of them. So I've driven quite a lot of exotic cars, and that's definitely one of the top five memorable moments for sure in a car.
Unknown So you've never driven this car, Ben? No, never. Alright, so if you're listening to this and you have one or have access to one, hit us up. Always hit us up. We're gonna get Ben in this car. Bring it on both. Very good. I'm kind of thinking this may actually result in. We should definitely go deeper on cars, but before we get too far away from it, I just wanted to talk about watches for a little bit, just 'cause we we probably should, right? It's probably not a bad idea. So yeah, Hannah, you already mentioned that you covered watches for a little while. What was it like now kind of looking back as somebody who's who's primarily covering another industry? Uh what kind of perspective can you give us over on your time covering watches? Like what was that experience like? How is it different from what you're doing now? Um are watches still something you're interested in? Kind of if if you can share a little of that. Yeah, that's a another gre
Unknown at question. Yeah. You know the thing is I would say um watch buyers and readers and aficionados are like the same people with cars, but even more intense. I would say it's it's like if you're looking at a a pyramid and the watches are at the top at the tiny, tiny, super intense level and the car people are kind of down. It's the same type of mentality, it's the same type of collector, but with watches, it's just so narrow and and tiny and minute and um it's uh just a turn of the knob to the right and maybe Vince. So it's like a boost control. Yeah. Yeah. Um I find them fascinating. Like Jane Goodall studying the apes, I would say. I find them fascinating and endearing. And it's really interesting. I think a watch means something very important to especially a man who would wear a watch. I mean I always talked about how men don't really have that many opportunities for individuality really um especially with jewelry and accessories maybe they wear a wedding ring maybe they wear cufflinks, maybe they wear reading glasses. Monogram shirts. Yeah, maybe. But then you're even getting a little more flashy. So the watch really means something and it's quite a bit like a secret club or handshake. You know, that if you see someone who if you know what you're looking at, you're in the club. And that means a lot. And it's um it's like cars, cars are more obvious. The watch is is even more subtle, it's more intense, it's more concentrated. Um so I am definitely still interested in watches. I mean, I like vintage things in general, so I'm not up on you know, I don't go to SIHH anymore, I don't go to Basel anymore, although I did and loved it. Um and I do miss it from time to time just because it's so fascinating. Um I think it's uh an important part of culture. And um yeah so I don't know it's it's it's great to see car buyers are less intense than watch guys. But it's the same type of guy, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Unknown Yeah. I think humans like to collect, you know, what I've noticed is guitars, cars, watches, these things, you know, obtainable. Yep. I think they define, you know, it's like I think they define a certain individual's taste. You know, you're a Porsche guy, you're a Ferrari guy, you're a Gibson guy, you're a Fender guy. You're a Omega guy, you're a Rolex guy, right? You know, there's certain categories that things fall into and then you just break it on down. I think the thing with watches is, you know, it sort of does sort of define who you are a little bit or your taste level who you are and um whether it's a vintage one or a new one, you know, personally I like to collect vintage watches, we're always looking at watches. And I think, you know, like I say, people just like to collect, you know, different taste w different watches for all occasions for me it's always Porsche time so I'm a PD guy. Ironically my father though as a kid growing up he actually played around with clocks and watches. He had a little business where he repaired clocks and watches. So we never had anything fancy, but we had a bunch of broken sort of grandfather clocks, grandmother clocks, pocket watches. You know, my mum I remember had a uh Cartier, what is it, that Reverso tank watch? Oh yeah. She had one of those and my dad had some Tudors. Never anything sort of super fancy like Rolexes, you know, that was never his thing, never really my thing. But um you know, my cousin lives in Switzerland near the Valley de Jou, so I visited that area. So you know it's kind of a little bit in the blood, you know. I always try to be on time if not early.
Unknown So we love that. And you're doing a project in the watch world coming up, aren't you
Unknown ? Yeah, I actually am. You know, it's funny. I I get approached by I've probably been approached by half a dozen watch manufacturers at various price points to do various things. And uh I'm pretty excited. I'm finally after this thing's been going for almost three years to do a watch with Porsche design. You know, it's interesting. The first sort of watch I bought myself was an Omega Speedmaster. And that was a good choice. Yeah. You you know know, for me, I was never really a Rolex guy. I'm a Gibson guy when it comes to guitars and not that the two go together, but for me they always did. It's like my uncle had a a Rolex GNT and I was never really a Rolex guy. I was always more of an Omega guy. So probably ten, fifteen years ago I bought myself an Omega Speedmaster. And I was always trying to get a pre man on the moon one, the one I got. I actually bought that watch store on Melrose Wanna Buy a Watch. Oh yeah. Yeah. Bought it from those guys when Omega Speedmasters, I guess, were affordable. Sure. They seem to have gone up ten times what I paid for mine. But anyway, here's the point to the Omega Speedmaster story. So in 2012, uh Tamir Moscovici, this committee Canadian film director, made a little short documentary film, which I always have to throw pop props to him. And the film was called Urban Outlaw. And in that film, I'm wearing the Omega Speedmaster, and I'd been sent this little blog of there was a thread going on about watch up what watch I was wearing in the film. I'm like, how do you even see the watch in the film? So there's like one little scene where I'm driving my sixty-six nine eleven, you see my hand on the wheel and you see the watch in the shard and everyone, all of a sudden there's a pretty big threat on what what was a watch I was wearing and And I wasn't really aware of just how intense this watch world was because I wasn't really in it. But there was a whole thread going on about is that an Omega Speedmaster what year is it, blah blah blah. So I was always an omega guy, but um being a Porsche guy, you know, one of my prized uh possessions is this first year 1972 Porsche design watch. It's a super cool watch. Yeah, you know, it's beat up, it's got character, you know, I like things that are old and beat up and have got patina. So three years in the making. You guys want a little sneak peek of this thing? Yeah, but of course I've got it on my phone. Of course this is all off the record unofficial, blah blah blah. But you guys can get a sneak peek of it. So this is what it's like. You know, it's a new flyback movement signature series. Oh wow. So it's actually quite an honor to uh to have that. That's awesome. You know, of course working with Porsche for me is an honor. Of course it's been an ongoing process where I was trying to get 'em to sort of tumble the case and make it a little beat up and of of course that's not so much the Porsche aesthetic. And that's ceramic or what is that? Or P V D? Yeah, it's P V D. Yeah. So this is that you know, now they're making their own case, making their own movement. So I'm pretty excited about it. Now we're just at the final stages trying to figure out how many we're making. Is it numbered? Is it limited? What's the story behind it? Apparently I'm gonna go visit the uh factory and sort of be there when the watch is going together. So for me, it's quite an honor to sort of be doing that with Porsche. It's kind of exciting and uh we'll see where that takes us. Yeah, that's cool thing. That's super
Unknown cool. In your guys' opinion, what's better?
Unknown Rather than making fifty or two hundred and seventy seven or nine eleven or although they're just numbered, i.e., you know, your lucky number is six six six, you want six six six on the watch, you can have that number. I think the thing with numbered is, you know, there is no actual quantity determined. Right. It's just numbered. So
Unknown what's your take on that? What's your take on that? Yeah. Like literally. Yeah. I mean it all depends on what the goal is. Like the you know, for a lot of the brands that that we work with, they want the store of selling out quickly. And if you want to do that, yeah you do X out of limited you know, XY Uh so then people know like there's a finite number and that's it. If you do number, people get excited about it, uh, but they don't they don't feel that like overwhelming urgency to go drive it. So if you want if you want it to go quickly, I would say you know, definitely number them and do a limited series. But if you want something that's just kind of like a a part of you and could be a part of you for a long time, then maybe just number them not out of a series. Just number them, you know? Uh and you know, we're we've we've done both. Like with our Octavia, we did just a numbered series. Yep. And then the rest of them have been limited editions. So limited editions like they go. Sometimes a little bit more than last. Um but it all depends on what the goal is. And you know, the the things when stuff goes so quickly, it kinda li limits you and it limits the upside obviously. Once it's done, it's done, you know. A few years
Unknown ago I did this uh limited steering wheel with Momo. Momo celebrated and for those that don't know, Momo makes steering wheels and seats, but they're pretty famous for making steering wheels. And if you're a Porsche guy, chances are you probably got a Momo Pratipo in your car. And for the fiftieth anniversary in 2015, uh I did a signature steering wheel with Momo. And they'd never done a signature steering wheel with a non-professional race car driver. So it was my heroes, Jackie Stewart, Jackie Iks, Mario Andretti, Clay uh Claire Regazzoni, and I had my own signature steering wheel. It was a combination of the Jackie Stewart thick grip with the Mo Momo Pratipo combined, and then I got them to distress the leather so it sort of looked beat up like an old patinaed wat uh watch or you know, leather shoes or whatever. And they did a limited run of them. They only did four hundred and the exact thing happened. They sold out really quick. And of course now people want 'em, but it's never coming back. Yeah. So it's like those that got 'em literally within the first two weeks of selling out, great. But still to this day have people like you ever gonna do that Momo steering wheel again? It seems a shame not to. So I think that's where the numbered thing comes in. You know, there is no limit. I've done a lot of stuff with Hotheels W for example. I did a collaboration that started with one car three years ago and now I'm up to like twenty of them. So Hot Wheels literally Hot Wheels has done this current thing which I was gonna bring one and of course forgot it. Yeah, they did a two seven seven version of my car. Now those you made five hundred thousand of them. The actual car. That one's gone around the world with me. So I was talking about all these memorable drives across Australia and down in Colombia. That's my like my lucky charm. That thing goes in my pocket and travels with me all around the world. That is so cool. So those are examples of you know something that's done in big volume. That's a 99 cent car, but the greatest thing about that is the great giveaways for everyone. It's amazing. That's the dream really to have your car made of it. So and everyone kinda has a Hot Wheel story back to growing up as a kid. You know, it's like whether you're five or whether you're a hundred, people can relate to having a model car, whatever it is. No question. You know, it's back to that little kid that had the poster the dream, whatever it was you wanted to be race car driver or car designer, you know, that's kind of a cool thing and I carry that around with me all over the world. Also the impulse to collect. Yeah. Well I think going back to collecting, right? Whether you collect stamps, flies when you go fishing, fishing rods, rocks, yeah, hats, jewelry, whatever. So
Unknown and now we'll look at this week's sponsor. The Clifton Bomatic is a collection of watches from Beaumont Mercier that combines classic looks with modern movement technology. Best exemplifying this approach is the Clifton Bomatic Cosk. Starting with a stainless steel case, a clean white dial, and razor sharp hands and hour markers, the Bomatic Cosk is a great everyday timekeeper. As you look closer, you'll find more details though, like the crosshair dial and the subtle date to hold your interest. Inside is a brand new in-house movement with a five-day power reserve and a silicon escapement to round things out. Bowman Mercier is also offering all of this for a very competitive price, making cool modern watchmaking a little more attainable. You can learn more about this watch and the entire Bowmatic Alright, let's get back to the show. I've heard you say that your goal is to collect an example of every sports car that Porsche has ever made. Is that still is that still your goal? Yeah I'm a goal-oriented
Unknown collector. So it started out with a s a specific 64 through seventy three. That was the early years, and it was a firstation-gener three-liter turbos. So I achieved those goals. The new goal is one of everything Porsche has ever made in a sports car. So that's front engine, mid-engine, rear engine, both air and water cooled. So everything from the three five six all the way up to the current car. You know, for me I'm not such a purist that it has to be air cooled, even though I've owned a lot of air cooled cars. You know, for me if there's a Porsche badge on it, it's a unique experience that I need to sort of participate in. Some of my favorite cars are you know, I have a few nine twenty fours that are pretty awesome, a couple of nine twenty eights. Just bought a nine six eight that we're trying to figure out how to drive it back from uh Florida from Florida. We just don't seem to have time. The cars down in Daytona. First world problems. Yeah, first world problems to have. But yeah, when it comes to Porsche, it's one of everything. You know, it's for me, I've always sort of collected what I personally liked, which later on became let's call it trendy. But for me, I was getting these things when they were affordable. And I did always say, sort of changed a little bit now, but I bought my first one over 25 years ago. And Porsche's were affordable back then. You know I'd always say what separated Porsche from all the other sports cars were they were obtainable. You'd see a lot of high mileage 911s because people drove them unlike other marks where people didn't drive them quite as much because they weren't quite as reliable, let's say. So that to me is always the greatest thing about the Porsche is the reliability and the driving experience. But long answer to your question, yeah, that's true. Now it's one of everything. And then I've been fortunate enough to drive what I call OPP, other people's Porsches. These are the cars that I can't afford, the, you know, the supercars are 959s, Carrera GTs, 918s. But that's the great thing about the Porsche community is, you know, it's sort of um the car brings everyone together from whatever background you're from. You know, I've been invited to a lot of places that I never thought I'd go to and driven cars, I never thought I'd have accessibility to, just because I think the community's is really pretty open
Unknown . Yeah. You you said you're not a purist, and I think that's that's another interesting thing to touch on is you know a lot of people, you know, everything has to be air-cooled, it has to be unrestored, it has to be you know perfectly
Unknown No, I'm not that way. I mean I have a sixty-four nine eleven, you know, that's a pretty holy grail car. Porsche only made two hundred and thirty-two of those. He's like 70 documented surviving. People always ask me what determines, you know, whether the car gets modified or not. And to me, it's always the car that determines whether it gets modified or not. And what I mean by that is at one time I had five 67s, which is sort of a holy grail car, but when I was collecting them, nobody really cared about them. And of those five only two had original motors. So as a classic case of here's the 67S with a 2.2 liter T motor in it. You know, the guy probably blew up the 67S motor, who knows, 10, 20 years ago, went to his regular mechanic who said, hey, it's gonna cost X amount of dollars in six months to rebuild this S motor, or I can put that 22 T motor in the corner there and I'll have it to you next week for fifteen hundred bucks. That was kind of a common story with these early shortwheel based cars. So I've modified quite a few sixty seven S. One of them's perhaps the most performance oriented car I've built to date. It's a 67S that my buddy Matthias in Houng Motorsports in Hamburg took a non-matching numbers 67S case and built it out to a twin plug 25 motor that dynoed at 271 horsepower. And then I built my sort of sport purpose readable R-inspired car around that shell. And so there's a perfect example of to some people what would be a holy grail car that's been modified. So to me, the car always determines like the 64911, that doesn't get hot-rodded. I have a couple of 75 turbos, that's the first year of the Porsche Turbo. When I think of Porsche, I think of that turbo. So that's not a car that I'm going to modify because they only made like 282 of them. So that's a pretty rare car. But you know, Porsche's made well over a million 911s, so there's a lot out there running around that, you know, have been modified over the years. No two ever drive the same. So to me it always comes back to variety. And I think one of the greatest things about early 911s, the first 30 years, everything's sort of interchangeable. You know, you can put a 36 motor in a short wheelbased car if you want, and then you go down the slippery slope of, you know, trying to determine when you stop the modification. Cause you know, you go bigger, you gotta upgrade suspension and brakes and the rest of it. But half the cars I own are sort of unrestored numbers matching cars and m people just tend to focus more on the modified stuff 'cause possibly it's a little bit more uh unique or a little bit more exciting to talk about. To me, it always boils back to variety and to me it's all about the journey and where you want to go. If I want to step back in time, let's say over fifty years, one of my favorite cars, my Irish Green 66911, that to me is the closest thing I can do to stepping back in time and going on that journey. You know, and I talk about it quite a bit. A hundred miles an hour on a short wheelbase stock car on narrow tires feels really, really fast. Yes. 150 miles an hour on a new 991 doesn't feel nearly as fast as doing a hundred in that short wheel-based car on one sixty-five profile four and a half inch wheels, you know, and tires. So it's a matter of how you want to go, how you want to experience the journey for me is to uh determine what car I drive and what gets modified. So tell me about the 64. Well it's a long story. You know every car has a story. You know it's the the birth of the 9-11, and you know P,orsche, as we know, just celebrated its 70th anniversary last year, June 8th, they made the Gamon Coupe. And then what people forget, because now we're at this pinnacle of Porsche's sort of moving away or moving into a a ne neww era. The whole world all of a sudden is accelerated 125 years and compressed it down into the next five years if everything's going to go hybrid electric, internal combustion mode is going to stop. But the answer to the 64911, when that car came out, the 356 guys, the purists, they didn't like the 911. Just like you know, now the 992 is getting a lot of love-hate, whether you like it or not. So the 64 to me is a real birth of the nine eleven. Without that car, there would be no eighth generation nine nine two. So that's the simplest, purest shape. You know, my car I found access well, not accidentally, I was this was probably ten years ago, I was on a crusade, ads everywhere, and here's a great story about the Porsche world. I got a um an email from a guy, Joost Hermes, in the Netherlands, who'd found this car, and it was on a non-Porsche car blog, and the guy was just asking about a little bit of information on his 64911. Wasn't actually for sale. And the good news was none of the Porsche guys out there knew about it. And it was a familiar story. It was car number 174, it'd been uh US serviceman stationed in Europe somewhere in the late 60s, imported the car into the country. I bought it from the third owner who acquired the car, early 70s. And I always talk about these cars, you know, probably 90% of the cars I own have never been for sale. So it's word of mouth. Like I just got offered a car today, funnily enough, car number 147. And uh you just I just have to listen to the people share their story, you know, 'cause it's sort of like going out on a first date, I always say you never want to push your luck and, you know, get your hand slapped by going too far. So you sort of gotta listen to the guy tell the whole story and the story of my sixty four was great. The guy brought it over to the case, told me how he was living in Connecticut and drove down to Florida and got pulled over by a state trooper. He had a joint in the car. He had to pay him a hundred bucks not to get the car impounded and he drove the car for a few years and then parked it in the mid-70s. Started a business, had a family, had a couple of kids, and he was also a Harley Davidson Corvette guy. So the 9-11 just sort of got back burnered, got put up on jack stands in the garage, hadn't been on the road since nineteen seventy nine. Believe it or not, the guy I bought it from painted it white because he didn't slate grey. Wow. And this was in the early seventies. So the car had been off the road since seventy-nine, so most of its life it had been off the road and that kind of survived it from getting sort of what I call the Miami Vice slant nose turbo white body conversion because you know all these short wheel based cars a few years well ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, a lot of people didn't really care about 'em. They were super cheap and a lot of them got cut up into eighties looking white-body turbos. So my car escaped that whole thing and uh of the two hundred and thirty two that are made, if you want to crunch numbers, I think there's seventy documented on the registry that exist in the world. Of those seventy, I think there's probably a little over three dozen that have an original motor. Mine has an original motor, slate grey red interior. But if you look at in the garage, it just looks like all the other old 911s. But the car's complete, it's all there. But I started acquiring these things when I I say had five of the first one thousand nine eleven. I had car number three ten, a real early sixty-five nine eleven, that's still in my garage that was imported by Brumo's Porsche. I had car number five forty, eight thirty-six and I think ten ten thirty two. So every car has a story, you know, and I I just remember these stories because I'm connected to them because they're interesting to me. So that's the s sort of the story on the sixty four nine eleven. Yeah
Unknown , I think after the the pot is over I'll talk to you about the car at RM Sotheby's coming up. Because there's a sixty four coming up in Paris next week. Have you seen that car
Unknown ? So Gotcha. you know it's a small world the the car world's a small world, like the watch world's a small world. You know, we've travelled all over the place and everyone sort of has a story like that. And that's what's great. I think that's what brings everyone together. And it's like I was saying earlier on, I'm not really interested in a car with fifty miles on it, but a car that's got all these great stories, it's what I call memorable moments. That's that's what's great about the car world. It doesn't have to be Porsche, that as I say, just happens to be uh So if you need us to look at a car for you, we're very
Unknown happy to. We can discuss that later
Unknown . So I actually want to talk about th this whole part of the car world, right, is is not what you do on a daily basis, right? Like you're really focused on new cars for the most part and a lot of what you're doing is is acting as a critic, which is a very different way to approach this than as an enthusiast, right? Y
Unknown es. Yeah. I I people ask me all the time what is your favorite car? And I have no answer for that, because the best car I'm su youre love getting asked that question constantly. Yeah, it's okay. I mean it's a fair question and it's a question that makes sense. But really, the best car is the best one for the job in a given situation. And um, you know, I'm a big believer in the fact that um it really has nothing to do with price point or brand. If a car gets a job done and it fulf if it fulfills what it says it's gonna do, it's a good car. That could be a Miata. That could be um Which is a great car by the way. Sure. There you go. I mean a big question is is a Miata a luxury car or not? No. Hard no. Hard no?. Hard no But it's not an essential car. People have that as a toy. It's a sports car. Yeah. It's totally superfluous. You definitely don't. But you don't consider it. You said a luxury car? No. I don't think so. I've heard people make the argument that it is because it's not essential. It's a toy. It's a add on. I could see that. Yeah. I don't agree with it, but I could see it. Yes. Yes. But anyway. So the the point is, you know, um, yeah, I I I don't have a favorite car. I think the best car is the one for the job. And there are many many good cars in the market today, especially with modern cars. It really comes down to oh a lot of the time it comes down to taste. What what brand do you like better? You know, what story do you like better that the brand is telling you? And that's great. I mean fifty years ago you had to worry about like maybe actually getting hurt in a car. And now cars are so safe compared to what we used to have and are so much more comfortable and easy to use and all of that. So all of that's great. Um it's now uh largely a question of taste and brand
Unknown ing and all that. So as a critic, if if your job isn't I mean like you said like fifty years ago part of a car critic's job was to be like are you gonna die in this car gonna send your kid through the windshield when you stop at a light right like that's not a problem anymore. And a lot of it comes down to these matters of taste. So when you know you get a call from brand X and they say, hey, we have the new the new model year, uh, we're gonna swing it by the office, you can have it for a couple days for a review. When you first you know go downstairs and go to get that car like what what are the first things you're kind of looking for how do you approach kind of coming up with something to say about a new car you've never seen before? Um
Unknown the first thing is the looks. I mean I I say all the time I like beautiful things and that could be a car, it could be a watch, it could be a magnus, it could be anything. You know, so I like beautiful things. I do think there is a absolute beauty in the world. I do think you can say unequivocally something looks beautiful or not. Now obviously that's two degrees, but um I think the number one thing is do the proportions work for whatever for whatever model it is. Do the proportions work? Does it does it go along with the rest? Does it fit in with the rest of the brand? Um and then you go into, you know, does the does the car deliver on the price point? Especially, you know, d is it worth whatever they're asking for? And then you can go down a whole list of questions with that too. Um but, you know, where does it fall fall in the segment compared to other cars that you might buy or consider versus that car? I mean Audi Mercedes BMW, if you're looking at their sedans, are they interchangeable? Depends on who you ask, maybe. Are they? That's a hard yes. Between those three, no. Between the SUVs, maybe. Yeah. Between the sedan, no, I don't think so. Between the SUVs, maybe. And SUVs are the biggest market today in in cars. And I mean this brings up
Unknown a question that that we get asked all the time. It's like you work for a major publication, if you if you destroy the new BMW, we'll say. I mean BMW will contact you. And they will contact your editors and your your the powers that be. Of course. Your publisher. Yeah. Will they contact Mayor Mike? No. I don't think so. Hopefully. He may be running for president. He's gonna be busy
Unknown . You know, circumstances matter in cases like that. For instance, if I was drunk and crashed the car, that would be a big problem. Correct. I would not have a job at the end of the day. Um if someone hit me and told the car, it might be a different thing. Right. Obviously uh I've been doing this for 15 years now. Knock on wood. There's a reason that I've stuck around. I am respectful and careful. But also you can't be too you can't be too precious with these things. I mean I mean, they're cars, they're meant to be driven. Things happen. Um I'm a big believer in that.
Unknown So what happens though when you drive something and you don't like it? And you don't think it delivers on its promise? And you know what? And and I've seen I mean, obviously I read I read your work. I've been in edit meetings where we've talked about your work. Like what do you do when that happens and it's a brand like BMW or Mercedes or something from Ford, you know, something from a a huge company. And like all of a sudden you have to come out and just be like, I this isn't good. Like this is just not a good th
Unknown ing. I can give you a very real and recent example um top ten list. I included um a car from Lexus in the worst cars of the year that I drove last year. I did a roundup and I said these were the worst cars I drove for these all these reasons. And um I included a Lexus on that list and then um in the next few weeks requested a different Lexus to drive and they said no. And the reason for that was they felt that they didn't like what I wrote. For me, as long as the piece is accurate and fair, I'm comfortable with that. To answer your question, what happens sometimes is automakers say we don't want you to drive our cars anymore. But that's actually only happened once and that was with Lexis and I don't have a problem saying that. And I stand by my review and the piece. Um I I pretty much just say. And I have I say if I don't like it and I say why. Um my big things are it has to be accurate, number one, and it has to be fair. I am very happy to have conversations with people who think I'm unfair because that furthers the relationship and that's great. That's a healthy thing and I'm always happy to listen. Um Yeah. I don't know if that answers your question. No, it totally does. And it and the editorial team at Bloomberg has always backed me up 100%. And if I say something is not good, for instance, the when Fisker was making karmas, they've since changed, but when they're making Fisker karmas, I think the our headline was this is a very bad car, don't buy it. Or something like that. I mean just really trying to just come. I'm now running through my head, I'm trying to guess which editor wrote that headline. Yeah, you know, you probably know. And um that's like one of my all time most commented on stories. And I had the full backing of of the editors to do that story
Unknown .
Unknown I don't like saying um negative things. But also um my responsibility is to readers and I want readers to be able to trust me and I want them to take seriously when I say this is good or this is not good. And the re the way that you earn and maintain that trust is telling them the truth. I don't report to automakers. I report to my editor and to readers. Just the facts, Age. Just the facts
Unknown . Well we're starting to get low on time, but before we go to the Hodinki questionnaire, there's there's one other thing I wanted to touch on, which is enthusiast communities. So we've talked about it a bunch, but I wonder how do you think enthusiast communities are changing and evolving whether it's cars or watches or guitars you know we we have so many inputs and there's you know there's people publishing at you know kind of big major publications like what you're doing, Hannah. There's enthusiast-driven publications like what we're doing. There's so much going on on social media and on forums. Like there are so many inputs and so much information out there and so many visuals out there. Um I wonder how that's changing the way new enthusiasts get developed, how they're conditioned, and and eventually like what that does to these communities
Unknown . Yeah. I I mean my initial reaction to that just real quick is that it's everything has been um exponentially sped up and so because of social so media. The number one thing that social media has done for enthusiast communities is just speed up everything. Speed up discovery, speed up acquisition, speed up everything. Information. I mean it used to be that you you might not see these rare cars or rare watches, you know, maybe once or twice a year and then it was just like, oh my gosh. But now you see them all the time because we have social media. So it just speeds everything up and I think um it means that trends will move quicker, quicker, quicker, quicker, quicker. People's attention span is shorter, even when it comes to collecting. That's my quick response. Good point right there. I mean it
Unknown 's sm aall world like you say. I think accessibility is vast. I think when it comes to cars, you know, enthusiasts sort of fall into a few categories. I always say there's people that like to collect, they generally like to either hoard cars and never show 'em or they love to roll 'em out on golf courses and have people with, you know, Q tips and white gloves critique the cars, which is fine. You know, I say the automotive world's like a big piece of the pie and there's plenty of slices. You know, I still think the the driving community is really, really strong globally. People love to drive. I think that's the ultimate freedom that the car brings. When it comes to things that I'm interested in, guitars and watches, it's you know, they're just all over the place. I mean some of my favorite things you're just looking at old guitar stores and old watch stores and antique stores. Hannah and I were at the Rose Bowl recently, which is sort of the greatest flea market I think for all things collectible, whether it's you know, old Nike sneakers or old Levi's or old watches. So I think that enthusiast community is really strong. Hannah's actually wearing a watch that we bought there that doesn't work, but it's like a dream. Well it did work when we bought it. Yeah, it's cool. That's fine, yeah. So it's a roamer. I I th I think enthusiasts are stronger than ever. I think collecting is stronger than ever, whatever it is you're collecting, whether it's fossils, watches, guitars or cars. I mean uh I think the accessibility is is the reach is bigger than ever. Yeah. It's bigger than ever. And it's almost instantaneous. You know, you want something, right? You get out your phone, go online, I'm searching for whatever it may be, sixty four nine eleven, right? So I think in reality that's a good thing
Unknown . Great. Cool. Well, to wrap things up, we'll do our hodinky questionnaire. So these are a couple quick fire questions. You can keep your answers uh nice, nice and short and to the point. Um so the first one is what's a watch that caught your eye recent
Unknown ly For me honestly today I was literally looking through the Jaeger uh webpage and I just was admiring the ultra thin just the whole line of their ultra thin I mean the half moon, it's timeless, it's classic. That's just top of mind. I I literally saw this this afternoon. Cool. For me, v
Unknown intage swatch or probably one of those Casio little pocket calculator watches from the 80s. Oh yeah. One of those guys, I think. So that's my answer to that one
Unknown . For number two. What's the best place you've traveled in the last year?
Unknown Mexico City, for sure. That's a Mexican City. Yeah, that's the best new place. It's s the colors, the flavors, the taste, the feel. It's so beautiful the architecture, the food. I really loved it. And it's cheap. It's fun. I miss it. Mexico City.
Unknown I'm right there. Miami, real colorful. I really like that and uh Columbia for me. Probably Bogota Medellin. You know, it's just something kind of exotic, exciting, big element of danger, bit of a rush there. Great driving in the sense of it's pretty hairball, it's adventurous, it's thrilling. Uh Mexico City for sure. I mean we've gone there three times in the past year. So that is awesome. And the great thing about Mexico City just to say is the car culture down there is amazing. Some of the cars we've seen you'd never expect that are hidden away. A lot of those guys are not on social media flaunting the cars they've got for whatever reason. But what they have there is pretty incredible. So those are my three places. Mexico City, Miami, Colomb
Unknown ia. Perfect. Well what's the best piece of advice you've ever received and who gave it to you?
Unknown H. This uh the first thing that comes to my mind, whether I like it or not, is my dad saying it's never too late to do the right thing. Do the right thing like that. Perfect. There you go. Mine's pretty simple. Ne
Unknown ver give up. There we go. And then we have what is your guilty pleasure?
Unknown Fish and chips. I would take some of that right now. That sounds great. It is hard to get a good fish and chips. I mean I could ramble on about fish and chips, but we don't have time, but fish and chips. We'll have you come back, we'll do the fish and chips cast. Yeah the taste
Unknown test on fish and chips. I would say mine is page six. It's gossip news. I read it every day and I kind of it's the first thing I read. Yes. It's kinda guilty, but it is a pleasure.
Unknown Yeah. All right, well to close things out, the last thing we always do is we get a cultural recommendation. So it can be something you've seen, something you've heard, something you recommend people go check out when they're done listening to this. So Hannah, maybe we'll start we'll start with you and work work our way around
Unknown . Okay. Um cultural recommendation. What was the name of that museum in Detroit? Oh, oh. Yeah. The the Detroit Art Museum. It's like the Detroit Museum of Arts and Sciences, something like that. Okay. In Detroit is so amazing. They've got Diego Rivera murals, they've got armor, they've got beautiful like Caravaggio paintings. It's really amazing. And we go to museums all over and that museum in Detroit is really special. They've got tapestries. It's so cool. Awes
Unknown ome. Yeah. For me, cultural has to be a drive. If you listen, you happen to go to uh California and you're in LA, go drive Angeli's Crest Highway, up to Newcombs Ranch, continue all the way to Wrightwood, drop down a Pioneer Town, do uh do that drive that goes through Salton Sea, Bombay Beach, Palm Springs. So that's my cultural advice. Go drive Angeli's Crest Highway. Perfect. Ben? Oh, I do this too. Yeah, you gotta do this too, man. I wasn't thinking about what I should
Unknown say. Um I really enjoyed uh Friends from College. Have you seen that? No, I haven't. Uh is it good? It is. So it's it's Netflix show. Uh the reason I started watching it is because Fred Savage is in it, who's become like a friend of mine over the past few months. Yeah. What was the TV show he was in? Uh he was on Wonder Years. Oh, that was K Kevinev Arinn Aroldn. Good oldold. So I started watching because I I know a guy on the show. Uh and it's really wonderful. It's really funny. And like it's basically about a friend group that went to Harvard together and they're all like, you know, kind of in love with each other. And it's really, it's really well done. Is it better knowing Fred? Yes, it is. So Fred plays a a a gay man in it and he's amazing. He's really great in it. Okay. Uh it is it's like laugh out loud, funny. Perfect. Yeah.
Unknown Tune him. Yeah. Awesome. Uh I'm gonna recommend another podcast actually. Uh there's a new show called The Dropout. Uh that's about Theranos. Um and it's it's only two episodes in right now. Uh so far it's really good. They go back and talk to all of uh Elizabeth Holmes's like professors at Stanford and like her teachers from high school and people she grew up with. And they paint this really crazy picture of how uh somebody who for a while looked like they were gonna be a hero who was gonna kind of change the world for the better, uh was actually maybe just kind of a sociopath um who was able to fool all of these really brilliant people. Um it's it's amazing. So it's it's only two episodes in uh and I am anxiously awaiting more more episodes. So I recommend you go check it out. Cool. Cool. Well thank you guys for joining us. It was good to good to see you guys. And uh we'll have to have you back soon. We'll talk fish and chips. Perfect. See you next time. This week's episode was recorded at Mirror Tone Studios in New York City and was produced and edited by Grayson Corhonan. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show, it really does make a difference. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week.