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The Business of Watches [033] Guido Terreni (Chief Executive Officer, Parmigiani Fleurier)

Published on Wed, 15 Jul 2026 15:00:00 +0000

Parmigiani Fleurier CEO Guido Terreni on how the concept of "private luxury" is driving design and mechanical movement decisions for the independent brand, which benefits from a cluster of related suppliers under the same ownership in Switzerland.

Synopsis

In this episode of The Business of Watches podcast, host Alistair Pullen interviews Guido Tareni, CEO of Parmigiani Fleurier, about his transformative leadership of the prestigious Swiss independent watchmaker since joining in January 2021. Tareni discusses how he leveraged the pandemic period for introspection, repositioning the brand around the concept of "private luxury" rather than "quiet luxury"—emphasizing refined, understated elegance for discerning collectors who value knowledge and craftsmanship over ostentation.

Tareni explains Parmigiani's unique position within the Sandoz Foundation's vertically integrated manufacturing ecosystem, including movement maker Vaucher and other specialized component suppliers. He details the brand's innovative "invisible complications" trilogy—the GMT Rattrapante, Minervette Rattrapante, and Chronographe Mystérieux—which exemplify the philosophy of simplifying complications to near invisibility while maintaining exceptional craftsmanship. The conversation covers the brand's strategic focus on approximately 100-110 doors globally, with the US becoming their largest market, producing 3,000-5,000 watches annually at an average retail price of 35,000-40,000 Swiss francs. Tareni emphasizes that Parmigiani serves educated collectors who prioritize personal satisfaction over social recognition, celebrating the brand's 30th anniversary with special editions featuring extraordinary artisanal finishes including hand guilloché work on gold movements.

Transcript

Speaker
Alistair Pullen Welcome to the business of watches, the Hodinkee podcast, where we go behind the scenes to talk to the executives and the players who are making things tick. Today we are speaking to Guido Tareni, who is the CEO of Parmigiani Fleurier, one of the storied and great independent brands in the Swiss watchmaking industry. Guido. Thank you for joining us. Good morning. How are you, sir?
Guido Tareni Good morning, Alley. It's a pleasure to be with you.
Alistair Pullen Excellent. Excellent. So thanks for doing this. And so, Parmigiani, you joined, I believe it was around it was twenty twenty one. Let's talk about you know the vision that you had for this brand and its history and and and you know the the kind of philosophy and design changes and um you know basically overhauled the business um since you've been here. Tell us the story.
Guido Tareni Well it was a specific uh historical moment in which I joined uh the company was in January 21, we st were stilluck in the pandemic. And it was before transformational changes in Lattery that uh happened, uh continue to happen after that historical moment and it was extremely interesting because uh I felt that um usually after a crisis having lived uh the Lemon Brothers one uh fifteen sixteen years fifteen years before there is always uh re-centering no on the on the values of that are core uh and there is also a a quest for reassurance uh in in the audience and uh and this uh i felt it before the what people were talking now about quiet luxury and and what we had to restate because uh we talk about private luxury, which is a bit more uh specific. We might enter into that distinction later because I think it's important. So the the company um asked me to to clarify the positioning and to to to to bring the brand uh to its prestige so that it's known for. And this this was the work that we did with a lot of discipline and with a lot of uh creativity and innovation. But the first uh thing that we did was really use that uh great uh exceptional uh moment that was the pandemic to do an introspective work and I think uh it was the most uh well invested time where you couldn't really do anything about an a such an important external factor. And it was a moment in which uh we ask ourselves, uh, how do we get back to that client that made the brand so prestigious uh at his origins and uh what is does the brand need to stand for. And uh for sure the values of Michelle of deep knowledge and the statement that comes from restoration were the founding pillars of this trajectory that had to be externalized through an offer on the product uh which is a physical object that has to translate these values into into reality but also on the communication, on the distribution. And most of all, uh go back to to to to interest that client that was a connoisseur, that was somebody who had discerning taste and uh was not following the flow that made the brand so so interesting at the beginning of its uh trajectory. So So this is what we worked on and was really fascinating.
Alistair Pullen Yeah, I mean it's it's really been quite a transformation. And and and you know, we should talk for those who aren't aware of the history of Parmigiani, you know, founded and led originally by Michel Parmigiani, a great watchmaker who sort of honed his skills and came to be known for his restoration of vintage pieces. And let's talk about, you know, what you know, I guess that was in the 90s when the brand was founded and has always been part of the Sandoz Foundation, the Sandoz family, in terms of its backing. And it's quite interesting in that in some ways, you know, Parmesan et Fleurier is part of an integrated manufacturer. There are other watchmaking companies within the group who obviously supply components, movements, most specifically uh Vaucher, um, the great movement manufacturer, which uh supplies many of the top brands um in the industry
Guido Tareni Yeah, right. Michelle is a living legend of restoration. Restoration is is a very uh interesting art. Uh and um and I think uh I I synthesize restoration as the black belt of watchmaking. I mean you're really talking to a knowledge So the different eras of watchmaking in the last five hundred years has passed through the fingers of Michelle. And when I say through the fingers, it is you really understand by what the great creators of our industry have left uh and you you talk to them through their work. No, and I I think that's uh very noble as as an approach because first before launching your brand he understood uh the rules of watchmaking uh very deeply no and uh another thing that is exceptionally interesting from a human point of view is that this man uh started to restoring watches in nineteen seventy five and it was the core crisis of the quartz where all this industry was thinking that mechanical watches were at risk and probably uh were not the future, no? Everybody was going quartz as the new technology to to be accurate and and and he felt that there was a cultural patrimony that was uh going to be lost and he went uh the other way. And I think going the other way shows a a great independence in the mindset of this person. No? So he looks at at the reality with different eyes. He doesn't look uh with the the eyes of the flow of the mainstream. He he looks with the eyes of who is cultivated and who believes that um there is uh there is worth in in what what w what watchmaking has brought to society and uh it's an artistic patrimony, it's a cultural patrimony but it also has always accompanied society in its evolution until the technology have transformed its meaning from a mere timekeeper to something else. And in 22, I think, or twenty one or twenty two, I don't remember exactly the year, UNESCO named uh this art uh as uh uh uh human patrimony of of the world. So without people like this it probably would have been difficult, no? And then building his name through through his restoration work because he worked on the Patek Philip Museum accredited as an uh restorer of the ancient pieces. He worked with the Santos Family uh collection, which is a beautiful private collection of ancient clocks uh very very uh beautiful and important. He he made a name about himself and he understood what to do and the family asked him if they wanted to do a brand together and they would have backed him up financially. And Michel in nineteen ninety six agreed and uh presented in the twenty ninth of may of nineteen ninety six at um the Bodivage Hotel in Lausanne fifty two unique pieces and uh stated a mission that was an educational mission before being a commercial one. So his intent was to at the end of the course crisis to restate what true traditional horology is about. And uh this before the l relaunch of Brighi by Swatch Group or by Mr. Ahik Senior who understood this uh very quickly and uh Michel was a lover of Breguet like uh can be Danny Roth, like can be many other watchmakers who who seen Breguet a mentor through his work. But his work was not was never something to be uh replicated, no. So Michel never looked at the past as something to duplicate and to copy. He he always looked at the past as a source of knowledge to innovate and do and bring forward the art of mechanic. One of the most um famous pieces might be the the Bugatti watches the, first Bugatti that was transversally put on the wrist and played with the m designing through the mechanics, putting transversely the movement as you would see in an ancient Bugatti of the thirties, the engine also it was really a question of using the mechanical art to give emotions that are nif different, deep and with with a meaning, with a why. And uh like every watchmaker or restorer does, he wants to wanted to master his craft. So will started to work on his own movements, started to have uh his own cases, his own dials up to the uh regulating orders with the assortment and the spirals so there's a vertical integration that is incredible in the Sandos uh Poulor of the Sandos Foundation that was impossible to keep alive through the capacity that was absorbed by the brand. So very quickly it was decided to open it up to very prestigious uh brands that uh could uh profit from this exoroni craft and uh also keep it alive because uh thanks to our partners uh business partners we are able to continue to have these uh beautiful know-how at the service of the brand and Aaron
Alistair Pullen Powell Exactly. And you know, let's go over um some of the the the partners that you have within the same ownership group. Vauché, um the movement maker is certainly the most well known. But basically, I mean, you know, Parmigiani timepieces are almost a a you know, in in-house single manufacturer piece, which is is is kind of rare for the industry. But yeah, talk a bit more about that and and and how that's, you know, sort of um part of the business.
Guido Tareni Well Voshe is uh a spin off of uh Parmigiani from the movement side. So early two thousand this company was created with the technical plans and sheets of of the movements that Michelle were was developing and a specialized company on high end movements was born. And I must say that Boucher has a quality which is really incredible because from that imprinting that Michel gave then, the means and and the evolution of the industrialization and the developments are really very, very, very important. Also the quality of these movements is is really extraordinary. And then um assist the company that is specializing subcomponents of movement like Atocalpa and Elwin that do does decollage in I don't know how to say decolletage in English but where you do pivot, wheels, uh so you you do all the these um these components and you also do the spirals and the escapements for the regulating organ, which is a strategic component for the whole industry because there are very few companies that are able to to provide this uh to to third parties. And then with Cadarence Airbag, this is a dial maker, which is uh not very big but very specialized in exceptional crafts. We do our grenema in uh which is uh the toric dials done by brush by hand that Michel taught like it was done back in the days uh from the restoration work to give a a sort of sophisticated finishing to our dress watch which is the the toric and then you have the lab um which is uh les artisans boîtier uh which is doing cases. know You, so I think the strategic components are are uncovered. This doesn't mean the hundred percent of the production is done in house. We use also partners that are best in class, such certain times for finishings that are uh say not worth uh while to in introduce internally because you you cannot verticalize at the at the at work. It's better to for a phase you can use uh something externally in a dial uh or uh in the movement sometimes you use uh external support to to do certain functions. But at the end it's it's uh it's a cultural and industrial power that that is bi backing up uh the brand for sure.
Alistair Pullen Yeah, and to be clear, your role as the CEO of Parmigiani Fleurier, so you know, obviously you're in charge of the brand and and all that comes with that. And then those components makers, suppliers that are all under the ownership uh same ownership structure, they're operated separately or or should we think do you have any management or executive role with uh with those entities as well?
Guido Tareni No, no. We are companies that are managed uh as a poll, as a as a as a group, but uh we are organized as uh independent companies that serve each other but we are part of the group.
Alistair Pullen And so let's talk about you know you um when you joined and and your vision for Parmigiani. I mean, you quite quickly had an impact. It's around the time when I started covering the watch industry and, you know, you were sort of the great um turnaround success story um uh had really done something, you know, with the brand and and changed its product and changed its trajectory. Talk about what you did in terms of, you know, sort of really focusing on uh on certain models, I guess the Tonda was was sort of first and now we have the Torec models as well on the on the dressier side. But yeah, talk about your sort of you know vision and and focus in terms of you know um the brand and since you've been leading it.
Guido Tareni Well it was uh clear and that uh the offer was the first thing to to tackle because uh we needed a star uh product, a product that we were recognizable for. And um the predecessor of the Tonda PF that was the Tonda GT that had been launched uh earlier uh in twenty twenty had shown signs of uh traction on the appeal of of a clientele that was coming back to the brand and uh we we evolved it into a high watchmaking content and less sporty but more sport chic uh in integrated bracelet segment which was really the the first watch that we wanted to tackle because it's a more versatile, it's most easier to w to wear and it's a master in and it was ready to be evolved. No. So I think uh what was extraordinary in that historical moment was first of all that we had the clarity of what to do, because from a design point, uh I really pushed my design team and and the people in in in the company to to um to have uh clear and uh the aesthetic codes that that we wanted to to work on, no, that were in the band. So we did an this introspective work based on how can we externalize uh a refined uh elegant contemporary style um extremely pure because we're not an ostentatious uh serving an ostentatious client. We are serving a client which is knowledgeable and has already done that that is a evolution in this maturity of buying a luxury which is not following what society is obliging you to buy, but is already into that pleasing himself, no? So Parmijani is for the owners, not for for the others, no. So from that philosophy you start working on the branding, the logo, PF logo without the writing was the first most evident element that talks about private luxury. But all the elements that were in the are in the Tonda Pf were in the brand before. So the Grandor, the Coribel um uh motif of the of the Guillet on the dial, which is done by hand, is something that was in the brand, but Gyorshi is a technique which is quite old fashioned. It brings you back to to a classicism that on a sports chic watch wasn't suited for so we wanted to go to minimalizing it in in the size up to almost become invisible but you can mistake it as a clean dial from distance but in reality when you look at it on when you have it on your wrist you you see that richness uh of the the finishing which is not invasive to the reading, the noodle basil in platinum, the comfort of this watch, the finishings that it has, uh are making it an experience which was is extremely high and luxury and uh and and was appealing to a client who knew the brand, its prestige and when he saw a product uh so well made and so in line with uh with today's uh need for for such uh collection uh the the purchase was uh without any issue. And then w I didn't want that the the relaunch was just a style relaunch. It had to be also uh leveraging on our innovation capacity to to respect uh the philosophy of Michelle that I told you before. So uh we started working on functions that are important in the industry, but reinterpreting in a way that they were never done before. So when you're doing uh something that is unprecedented in a history of five hundred years, it's a rate exceptional and you have to do it in link with this philosophy of uh restrained style, which is not a way to fade or to be mimetizing yourself in society. On the contrary, who is understated, who is not showy has has a bold choice of going his own path. So it's really pleasing people who are independent in their mind, like Michelle is. And this happened with the Jim Tieratrapante, which was the first uh innovation that we did in 2022, which really took us by
Alistair Pullen I mean it really is. And then obviously
Guido Tareni the latest iteration is the chronographe
Alistair Pullen mysterieux of this sort of um philosophy and idea. But you know, talk about that GMT Ratrapin which was, you know, really did have an impact in in terms of, you know, um enthusiasts and and and collectors in terms of waking up and taking an another look at the brand and the the offering. You know, it was a new way to uh to do a GMT. I mean, you know, talk about that whole sort of aesthetic and and philosophy that we've seen with the pieces and I guess right through to the chronograph Mastelio
Guido Tareni Well that to me the Gemtira Tapante holds in him the essence of the philosophy of private luxury that we are applying to the brand. Because uh everything is taught for a reason and is there to to give a a flawless experience. First of all, you start from the client, not having an ostentatious client where the ultimate status is not to show your status. Uh you are giving to a person something that is only he knows what he has. So you're not a client who when he's not traveling needs to brag that he's traveller or needs to brag that he has an international life ruling the all the time zones of the world. So when you're at home, we wanted to provide a beautiful two-hander. But when you are traveling, you want a flawless experience. So a pusher moving the hour hand was a master because the minute hand should move uh when you're changing a time zone. And uh then just by saying in the brainstorming that we had uh at the third day of my arrival in the company, I wanted a watch post COVID so everybody wanted to to go back to travelling and do it in a way that was never done before, extremely refined and discreet like the brand is. And by saying the sentence I want to go back when I'm travelling I want to go back the as quick as possible because I want to be reunited with with home. In French reunited say ratrape means to catch up. And this gave the idea doing well why don't we use a Ratrapante function to the travel at hand? And it seems this intuition is very powerful, but it's an intuition that is breaking the rules of 195 years of history. Because the patent of a split second function uh was patented in the late 1820s, and it took uh almost two hundred years to the industry to apply to another hand of the movement instead of the second half of the chronic to a travel hour hand. Now this gives you also the rigidity of our industry. No, we're it's quite conservative, it's quite no thinking out of the box. It's not always uh frequent. No. And this gave a a beautiful sensation to the owner because the owner first of all has something interesting on his wrist and something playful, something that has a magic moment where in the blink of an eye that hand uh reunites with your home time and uh it's done the shorter way because when you are beyond seven hours it goes back clockwise, when you go under seven hours it goes back anti clockwise. So and that's due to the mechanical the retrapante function which uh has a b iconic uh component which is a sort of heart component that makes the the lever switch back uh from the shortest way. And this this is always beautiful to see how uh wheels, pivots, levers, mechanics at the end are able to transfer an emotion to to a client which is perfectly in line with with what he wants to show. So it's something for him, it's not something to show off. But when you're having it, it's exciting, it's it's it's something that you you you are proud of. But it's everything is under the hood and nothing is in your face. Aaron
Alistair Pullen Powell And that is and you know it's sort of at that thought, philosophy, is at the heart of this, you know, sort of slogan or idea that you talk about, which is private luxury as oppos and this is opposed to, you know, quiet luxury, which is a an idea and a sort of style that certainly um has come about in the past few years. I mean, you know, talk more about what exactly private luxury is and and how it is expressed in the offering and the product at uh Parmigiani.
Guido Tareni The difference between quiet luxury and private luxury is that quiet luxury has become a trend and when a trend is in fashion, it is the opposite of being quiet. So people who are quiet today because it is fashionable to be quiet are basically the opposite values of what quiet is about. So we had to rename it into private luxury because private luxury has always been there and will always be there and it interests a client who is not following the flow, is not following what uh designer is obliging you to wear, is not uh uh somebody who is somebody who b is building his own way of consuming whatever it is consuming because it can be luxury, it can be uh the restaurant you choose to go to, it can be how you you you live in society if if you're looking for uh more deep relationships and less uh superficial ones you get no it's a way of of of behaving before of purchasing. So it's usually comes with education and you can be private at twenty years old and you can never get to private luxury if you are driven by other values. And for sure is taking the luxury experience to a m a next level or a different level of the first degree, because first degree is given you by the wealth that you have built, which is beautiful to have built the successful um wealth uh during your life and it's meritocratic, it's beautiful, but usually if you think that luxury is an expression that shows your wealth, you have not understood what luxury is about. Luxury is much more than that. So the first floor is the access that is given to you by wealth, and then especially when the access to wealth is being more and more accessible in in society because unfortunately society is going to a polarization.
Alistair Pullen quality. If you think of
Guido Tareni my father's generation, everybody could buy a luxury watch once in a lifetime. No, today not everybody can can do that. No, so so luxury has moved up into into the price but also into the offer and uh and uh if money is the the the the differentiation point uh to be expressing luxury to who that doesn't have access to that, that is the first degree. But within the community of luxury experience, money is the floor. What private luxury is about is differentiating yourself with other things, which is education, refinement, discernment, uh making choices that are you can be much more cool at fifty thousand rather can than a million, depends how you're spending your money. So it's much more important to uh educate it and say private luxury kind of experience what you do with the money that you have and not how much money you're spending. And this is is very important to me.
Alistair Pullen Is it just simply taste though, or or I mean, you know, um refinement, taste? But it's more than that.
Guido Tareni It's discernment, it's uh knowledge, it's uh but not knowledge as a walk geek, you know, what uh levers goes in a movement, uh no that's Oh certain what it's probably I can summarize it in the opposite of hype. A watch can be hype and can be bought very expensively uh beyond uh the price list because of its uh scarcity that is artificially stated or because of the desire which is a fashion victim approach if you want to to luxury. And if clients uh get to that uh behavior where they accept uh to to do purchase journeys beyond before getting to the watch that you really want, I mean they are responsible also for this kind of behavior that luxury is having to certain customers. But private luxury customers usually are pulled off by these dynamics and they start to be looking elsewhere because they don't want to play the game and they prefer to differentiate themselves for everybody wants by going to things that are in the know to know. So it's a less uh less awareness. But those who know are part of a of a more um interesting community if you want to s nobody if people don't recognize that you have a barme on your wrist, the owner doesn't care. But the the reward, the social reward is if you have somebody who compliments you, oh what a beautiful watch you have, you start talking watch making like bodies immediately because you know you have somebody in front of you who has a superior knowledge of the industry and it's not just looking at what is obvious, no? So this private luxury is about going beyond the first degree of understanding aesthetics, brand heritage, mm, watch making content that you have on the watches, style that you're conveying through your choices because at the end there are people who understand that a watch does not define you. A watch is an accessory. It is a part of you. It is it is something that is saying much about you because it's an intimate choice. But it you're not the watch that you care. No, and and this is is part of a more sophisticated audience that is that is looking at uh consuming whatever, luxury or holidays or cars or whatever you want in a way which is thoughtful, which is uh personal, which is knowledgeable and uh confident because at the end you're you're not following a dogma that is imposed to you.
Alistair Pullen Yeah, no, uh th that uh is incredibly well articulated and I think it makes clear the sort of um distinct nature of this idea. How does creating products in the vein of of private luxury. How does that work as a business though? I mean, um you know, I think i early on you had great success in terms of I think tripling sales with the brand. Yeah. I mean, you know, where are you now in terms of uh average price and and, you know, talk about those kind of metrics um if you can and how that is been achieved, you know, through this this vision of private luxury.
Guido Tareni Well f for sure developing a brand into this uh philosophy is demands a lot of uh creativity but demands a lot of discipline because uh the why of things is extremely important, as well as the how because uh the finishings and the execution of your ideas have to be flawless and have to be uncompromising. So it's a very high bar to to move and every year we are moving it uh very very importantly. You spoke about our third world first chronograph Mysterio. It's it's a trilogy, no now. And this trilogy started in twenty two and now we're in twenty twenty six, so in four years, three movements which are major functions of the industry because the GMT we spoke about it. The second was looking at the rotating basel of a diver's watch and saying, can we as watchmaker do that function through the movement instead of using the case and something completely different comes out and it's a a watch that helps you be on time in whatever anything you're doing and and the variety of uh using it is is crazy, no? Up to the um the chronograph mysterious which is basically having a chronograph that is not seen and invisible until you need it, no? And it's a monopusher, it's flawless in the way that you use it. You have these two magic moments in which it appears and it disappears when you finish reading the the measurement of the time. And these are things that are easily to imai easy. They're not easy to imagine, but the the idea to come up with the idea idea is imagination, but then to make it become uh reality and making it work it becomes a hell of a different story, no, because uh you need courage, you need uh uh persistence in your ideas and you m you need to believe in them and you need to make them happen. But this philosophy of simplifying the complication up to the moment that it disappears, it's really part of the philosophy of what is saying. You saw it also with the with the QP of last year, the perpetual calendar rhetoric where the calendars usually are very busy dials, we streamline the functions into two coaxial counters in a way that lovers of perpetual calendar said I've never seen such a pure calendar in my life. So you're always pushing the aesthetic through the technique because to quote Michelle, technique is beautiful and beautiful means that you are designing with technique. And I totally agree. The movement and the way you you place a function before even knowing on what watch you will design it in is already a design constraint and a design statement. So that that philosophy is building up and each episode makes it understood. For instance the third episode of of the Invisible Complications this year is making even more traction on the GMT of uh 2022 and on the Mineratra Plant. So we are selling through uh the the this gives you traction because the important thing is to state your values in a way that they are not cannibalizing yourself. It's not that you do a function and you sell that function and you stop selling the the one before. All the developments are building up. just a watch, a second is a couple, it it's not yet a story, it's when you get the third that people get it. And it's a bit like what happened with the palette of colours that we're using, which are extremely um uh fresh and very uh pleasant, uh serene. Uh there's nothing aggressive in our brand. No, everything has to be pleasant, everything has to be long lasting in the appeal, the choice of colours are specific, but they're easy to match with your outfit, but they also they will never warn you out because they're not flashy, they're not loud. So you have all the philosophy which is aesthetic and last year through the morning blue of the perpetual calendar and the the golden hour, uh people understood that we had a palette, but it was four years since we were building it. No, so your business wise, uh going back to your question, it's like uh uh uh an extra story, no, you're building each episode uh and and your narrative m builds on and people are continually attracted to what we're doing because we we uh we are basically making them interested in us because people come to watch the wonders looking at what we're doing because w they feel that we are interested. And this year to give you a number that we that that can give you an idea, uh in the public days two years ago we welcomed hundred and eighty people who So you uh this is a another statement of and the the the chronograph mysterious affair. Everybody is saying did you go and see Pamajani? Did you did you see that watch? It's crazy what they came up with. No, so but it's not just that watch, it's also the f the artisanal finishing that we put on the toric, the honeybeck tiles, the the the finishings on our movement. I had a beautiful experience with a client who was very discreet, a person that was extremely refined and when I showed him the the the the anniversary piece of the the perpetual clan of the toric with the hammer dance and the guy she movement, when he turned the movement, he didn't say it to me, he said it to himself and he said, Well come back. No, uh that is a compliment that tells you you don't need to to shout your emotions. But it was a very private experience and I had I was in a room with him so I heard it but he wasn't saying it to me. No. So that's kind of uh the pleasure that is intimate that that i we're building uh on this on this beautiful brand.
Alistair Pullen And just for my uh knowledge, I mean what um what was the most challenging of those uh sir invisible function pieces
Guido Tareni Well the GMT was the first so uh probably we lear a lotnt through that uh function that was easily was the most simple to do because just over fifty components for the function, no. But um we learnt a lot because uh to catch up with the hour it had to be perfectly aligned. So technically speaking it was more of a fine tuning of the idea. So go going to a perfect execution and having it uh work uh correctly and and perfectly. So this was uh probably the discovery. Then the Minetra Tapante uh the people don't know, but it's a triple of the components. So we we couldn't um so the value for money for the mini-ratapant is higher than the GMT because uh we couldn't put uh a price that was in s in in correspondence with the cost of the movement because to the customer, well you're moving a minute hand instead of an hour hand, okay you have a pusher more you don't you don't so we we put one thousand Swiss francs more to state that it was more complicated but it doesn't reflect the complication. And the the third is the the chronograph. Now the chronograph is is a little bit more expensive, but I we wanted to keep it extremely competitive in the offer because thirty six uh nine hundred Swiss francs is I think it's just over is around forty four thousand dollars. Yep. So you put all this complexity into that. Yes, because I think what's important is that people live our watches. It's not we don't build watches to keep them in the safe and we we want them to And so the price point has to be sufficiently important to to make us uh make our living, but it's also something that goes into the direction of putting motions on the wrist of people. But on the chronograph it was probably the dimension that was the most challenging because I gave a very strict um technical sheet that the watch couldn't be bigger than forty Mm. And initially I had given twelve mm of height and then we had to concede one more millimeter for the height because a wider diameter would have been much less commercial. So I w I preferred to have a millimeter more the in height than a couple in in width. So it was uh the concession that we gave. And then also the other thing was the the fact that the chronograph was extremely difficult to conceive because it's not a traditional chronograph. You have a flyback start, you have a double retropranted function to cover the hands when you reset it. So it's uh it's not a traditional way of building a chronograph. So it it was really anal intellectu work that was very complex to to come up with and um this reflects the idea when I when I had the idea, it was September 2021 and and I I had to say it to Michel and he was in the office uh a couple of days later, so I said, Michel, I had a great idea. What do you think about this uh chronograph uh that and I described with my function and he was uh looked at me like a grandfather willing that you succeed looks at a as a nephew or whatever and he said it's complicated and he didn't say anything else. And so he left me hanging there and uh but I could see his question mark in the in his technical mind uh that was already thinking how on earth could we respond to that uh to that brief and and so that gives you the idea of how revolutionary is an approach uh of redesigning a a chronograph outside the counters, outside and making it something flawless as an experience. And yeah, I
Alistair Pullen mean can you give us any I mean, my understanding, I think you m make anywhere between three and five thousand watches a year. And I mean, what have you done with average price? I mean, these have become more more complicated, more sophisticated, um you know, truly embodying private luxury, these pieces. And so yeah, what what what can you tell us in terms of um you know what you've done with average price? And then I want to talk about your distribution um tactics too.
Guido Tareni Well the price is uh has well since the arrival of Tonda PF the price has has has grossed. So I think now we're around forty thousand between thirty five and thirty forty thousand Swiss francs uh retail, which is uh quite important uh as a brand. No, then the you can go up to millionaire pieces with uh the restoration work that we do on unique pieces for the celebration of the heritage of Michel that we do every year. The enterprise is twenty thousand Swiss francs, so that that's where how we how we where we stand. In terms of uh distribution in the relaunch clearly we had the opportunity to have uh a very strong demand with a very low production in twenty one and twenty two and this allows us to prioritize and the allocation and not disperse the the watches uh everywhere, every in the distribution that the brand had touched in his life was way too important towards what was necessary. So we had cut um more or less two thirds of the distribution in twenty one and tw in twenty two especially and a bit in twenty three. So now we are more or less around uh just around a hundred, hundred and ten doors um point of sales uh with ninety, ninety-five uh clients because some have m multiple doors. But uh that to me is is sufficient, so I don't see a growth through distribution.
Alistair Pullen Clearly we have some areas where we're
Guido Tareni stronger than others, so there might be some markets that are still to to exploit. But one thing at a time we have to really build uh the narrative and the positioning and make it understood to more people. And then this is uh this is working especially very well in the US, which has become our first uh market. And we are at the highest ever since the relaunch.
Alistair Pullen In terms of in terms of sales. Well good stuff. Um and w you know, what is I mean, you know, it's a business. What is the plan for growth or and is that an objective? I mean um whether it be growing sales or volume or you know positioning.
Guido Tareni The sales to is a is a is a result. It's not an
Alistair Pullen objective. To me the sales is
Guido Tareni organic, the growth and has to become from being interesting and being continuing to to to make a clientele know the brand. But it's not that we we are going to become uh uh ten thousands of thousands of uh watches to be produced. I think uh private luxury is always about a confidential business, uh that can grow because it will be for sure something that will be more interesting for more people. The more there is an homologation in in trend, the more you have a counter trend of a de homologation. So the the demologation trend, which is probably today very small percentage of the industry will probably remain a small percentage of that industry, but it will continue to grow. And uh because luckily there are more people who have access to luxury and uh and this is positive. But uh the first degree of luxury is not what
Alistair Pullen Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. And what's your sense, you know, of your ability to gauge the market right now? I mean, it it remains uh uncertain geopolitical risks and and challenges all over the place. The US market, which is your biggest market now, continues to uh appear strong. What's your sense of the the you know the the outlook overall in the short and medium term uh for luxury and and and watches?
Guido Tareni Well I was in the States um a few weeks ago uh and we were in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut. So I met with clients, I met with press, I met with partners, and I felt an excitement of what we're doing which grows every year. So what I start to hear is that our audience returns their emotions with the words that they have, because it's their emotions, but they are very consistent with what we hope they return to us. So it was very inspiring for for us uh because it gives confidence and it can gives ideas. So we we had really uh had really a beautiful week in in in understanding this uh excitement now and the excitement goes to people who are living their lives uh trying to accompany themselves with something pleasant and yes, the geopolitical world is not in in a shape that uh is I mean we all would love to go back to to a world w that is more uh peaceful and more serene uh and less greedy and and more respectful. I think this is something that everybody hopes. But at the end uh people also continue to to live. No, you can be conditioned in in your private life, uh you have your birthdays to celebrate, you have a success to celebrate, you have a birthdays to celebrate. So mm you're trying to do it in a more um intimate way and a more personal way possible. So this is what moves us. I was in Singapore, Malaysia um last week. Uh I feel the same. I know. People were travelling from Hong Kong, from Shanghai, from Philippines to meet me in Singapore because we were presenting uh the chronograph, we were presenting the brand and and they were eager to with the same values, probably with this less different level of maturity because in Asia probably the status uh driven purchase is still very important, but uh it's also educational to to to make them understand the values of private lecture that we shared and they were extremely uh interested and eager to learn and and to express their themselves even better. So I think um everybody asks me which is your customer. I I never I never talk about customer nationalities. The customer is the value of the customer that is transversal. In in every in every country you have this private luxury quest for private luxury and for differentiating yourself beyond money and this is something that uh is growing.
Alistair Pullen Last thing. I mean, um, you know, as I say,
Alistair Pullen you've certainly had a huge impact and and managed to surprise and delight people with some of your pieces. Are you gonna be able to to give us more and to do it again and to to come up with something as sub as delightful as the the GMT or the uh the the chronograph, can you keep it uh common?
Guido Tareni Well uh for sure uh the functions that you are tackling have to be economically uh valuable and also the more you go niche in the function, the less business you will be able to have. So it will be a question of uh trade off between the cost and the investment that you need to do and the result that you will have from that. But it's clearly uh we're we're not uh abandoning the idea of of innovation because that's part of uh the philosophy that Michelle uh has to the brand carries his name and innovation through knowledge is is his mantra and also this we are willing to continue but you cannot imagine that uh the rhythm will be the same as uh as the frequent rhythm that we have uh built up to now. Also because what we have built we want to continue that itself. So it's a question also of the discipline that we will put into into the collection. But there's not only the technical innovation, there's also the discovery of uh ancient finishings like the hammer dials that we saw before on Tauric and other things that are playing with uh the culture of watchmaking. Imagine using a dial technique to to decorate a gold movement like the Geo Sheiman done on the on the special editions that we did for the anniversary. These are things that are cross uh fertilizing if you want uh uh know-house on different components and you're playing with the ingredients of watch making in a way which becomes fresh. And this is another another way of being unique, another being m another way of being deep and uh and interesting and and if you do this with taste and you do this with a consistent style, uh you are understood and uh and uh more you are understood more people come to you because uh that's what really is important uh in in in in our job. Thirtieth
Alistair Pullen anniversary of the brand? How is how are we marking that?
Guido Tareni Well beyond the the innovation of the chronograph my which was uh a really uh we wanted really to to make it for the thirties as a as a big technical moment. We have uh the Tory collection, which is the collection with which Michel started its its brand. Now so thirty years of the brand coincide with the thirty years of the collection and uh we did on the three movements that the collection is built on, the Petit Second, the Perpetual Calendar and the Chronograph, uh Spitsecond Chronograph, three anniversary limited editions which in exalt the uh artisanal finishing uh on the watch and every component of these editions has been sublimated if you want uh to celebrate uh Michelle's heritage but also to celebrate the art of wash making in all its manners, starting from the gearshe, hand gearshe, finishing on a gold movement on the petistecond and the perpetual calendar where you you are expanding a technique uh on a dial on a gold movement on the bridges and uh by doing so uh you're asking a gearsure to to work on a different scale because on a dial the the finesse of the dial gets you to a certain deepness while on the bridge is uh there is m almost a double of the deepness uh that the the gearshur had to do the pattern that we chose, which is a very beautiful and rich uh finishing that uh that is done through a double hand gearshire technique and and the the the the geersher was was extremely clever and uh in surpassing himself because the first uh prototype we saw in july last year which was the submission to say okay we go in production wasn't satisfactory and we we were a bit shaky because we said oh God we have that such a beautiful creativity and the tool g leaves uh at this passage uh a line that uh shines very brilliantly but not in a i in a rough way the light, not so this was taking away the the sense of refinement to to the craft. In a dal it doesn't matter because you have other techniques that you can fade this brilliance through uh through protections and through colouring. Here uh the the the work of the Gloucester is naked. And his passage and uh he he was he was really a hero. To me the real heroes are in the in the making of the our industry. And he said, Please give me some time. I don't want to be the one who will drops the creativity. And he came back three months later with the execution that you see on the watch now, which uh were made uh on time and they are basically all delivered in July. So it's it's it's really I'm really proud of of what that happened. The hammer dial is another technique. You're basically playing with the gold and you're reflecting the light in a different way and every dial is unique because you it's not done by a mold but it's done by uh an artisan that hammers a gold surface to make it unperfect and to make it wobbly, a bit like the water of a lake that reflects a light in a very delicate way. And so that you you you elevate that emotion and and and I'm very pleased that that we had played with that. And up to the last which was unveiled on the the exact day of the something extraordinary uh is the really the ultimate uh development that Mitch has started ten years ago that when I joined I found in the works and it was put aside and we said well let's finish it because it's interesting and and it's all the light for the thirtieth anniversary and five pieces were uh will be made this year.
Alistair Pullen Amazing. Yeah, and remind remind us the price uh on that piece?
Guido Tareni Swiss francs and that is at the exchange rate internationally.
Alistair Pullen Excellent. Well, Guido Torreni, the CEO of Parmigiani Fleurier, thank you for joining us on the business of watches.
Guido Tareni Thank you, and it's been a pleasure.
Alistair Pullen And that's the business of watches for this episode. We hope you enjoyed. Please head on over to Hodinkee.com where you can join the discussion and leave any comments or questions about this episode or the business of watches in general. Who knows, we might even answer your question on a future episode. Thanks for listening and see you next time.