The Business of Watches [031] Roy Davidoff (Geneva Vintage Watch Dealer And Collector)¶
Published on Wed, 1 Jul 2026 15:00:00 +0000
One half of Roy and Sacha Davidoff, Roy talks about a life and career in watches, judging Cartier's 'Watchmaking Talents of Tomorrow' prize, the Omega Speedmaster market, and more.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of The Business of Watches, host Andy Hoffman sits down with Roy Davidoff, one half of the renowned Davidoff Brothers vintage watch dealers, at their shop in Geneva's old town. Roy shares his journey from a watch-obsessed child in Geneva to becoming a prominent figure in the vintage watch world. He discusses his early experiences working in Miami's watch trade in the late 1990s, his decade at modern watchmaker Bovet (2002-2011) where he learned manufacturing processes, and eventually founding the Davidoff Brothers business with his brother, initially specializing in Omega Speedmasters.
The conversation explores how the vintage watch market has evolved, particularly following the scandal involving a questionable Speedmaster sold at auction that implicated the Omega Museum. Roy explains how this damaged trust in vintage sports watches and shifted collector interest toward brands like Cartier, independent watchmakers like F.P. Journe, and pieces from the "Holy Trinity" (Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, and Vacheron Constantin) from the 1970s-1990s. He also discusses his role as a juror for the Cartier Watchmakers of Tomorrow Prize, his observations on young talent in horology, the impact of celebrity watch collecting on the market, and offers practical advice for collectors at various price points, emphasizing condition, buying what you love, and staying within budget.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Andy Hoffman | I'm I'm recording now but you can you can get the uh levels and I think we're where we want to be. So as they say we're gonna we'll talk about just a quick sort of bio your history, who you are, what you do, how you have been in the watch industry, then we'll talk about the Cartier watchmakers of tomorrow prize and what you did in the jury. And then we'll talk about watch fairs and Brightland going to watches and wonders and if this matters and what watch where we are with watch fairs. And then we'll talk about collectors and what they're interested in. Here we go. Welcome to the Business of Watches, the Hodinky podcast, where we go behind the scenes to speak to the business leaders who are making things tick. I'm your host, Andy Hoffman, and I'm in Geneva. And today I have a very special guest, Roy Davidoff, one half of the Davidoff Brothers uh vintage watch dealers. Um but Roy is you know really, a pillar of the watch community here in Switzerland and also has deep roots in the United States. Roy Davidoff, welcome to the business of watches. |
| Roy Davidoff | Thank you very much, uh Mr. Hoffman. |
| Andy Hoffman | It's good to it's good to have you here. It's good it's good that we're finally doing this. So we are sitting in your uh little shop in the old town uh in Geneva. But for those who don't know, I mean you know you are a prominent figure in the watch world, but for those who don't know, tell us how you got into watches and what you're you've been in this industry and around this industry for quite a long time now, but how did that all come about? Where did you where were you born? Where did you grow up? How'd you get into watches? |
| Roy Davidoff | Alright, very simply I was um born in uh Geneva and at the age when I started sorry I was born in Geneva. I uh started um loving watches at a very young age. I don't remember, but my family tells me that I was obsessed with uh with with watches and wristwatches. I do remember receiving the plastic uh tag hoyer formula one back in the day |
| Andy Hoffman | nice i remember also receiving the first generation |
| Roy Davidoff | jelly swatch which uh i remember also losing um Um I remember also going to auctions with my dad for jewelry and I would get lost in the watch section. I'm talking early eighties, mid eighties. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. I remember also buying |
| Roy Davidoff | and selling swatches when I was uh when I was a young kid in the late eighties and then uh arriving in Miami um and then getting like uh summer internships and summer jobs when I was sixteen, packing boxes, installing straps, uh running on errands and you know they just they just snowball from there. Um my first big opportunity actually came in the late 90s where I worked for a jeweler and a watch dealer that were sharing a booth. His father got me a job with that jeweler. Um but after a couple of weeks the jeweler realized Alright, he's okay with jewelry, but he fucking loves watches, can I |
| Andy Hoffman | curse? You you can but yeah, I mean you know, we we we try to keep that to a minimum. |
| Roy Davidoff | All right. We may have to beat that. So I'm gonna Anyway, so my father got me a really cool job in the late 90s working for a for a jeweler that shared a space with a watch dealer. After a very short amount of time the jeweler realized that I was much better suited to work just for the watch dealer and he was happy not to have to uh incur any uh expenses there and my my learning curve just exploded because before it was like a one by one I would find things in the flea market when I was young and it wasn't something regular. And in the late 90s I really started seeing hundreds and thousands of watches. Right. I would go to NAWCC shows. I would go to IWG shows, I would go to the antique shows. Um really is you started uh getting um just being exposed to all |
| Andy Hoffman | that. And uh it |
| Roy Davidoff | uh very quickly, you know, um it it it um my passion grew. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. And one of the things I wanted to do |
| Roy Davidoff | is because all my family were um the fourth generation uh in the jewellery business. Yes. segue to to to to watches I wanted to get my uh GIA the I'm a gemologist. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. So what happened is that in nineteen |
| Roy Davidoff | eighty nine I finally went to to GIA and then I came back uh to Miami again and another watch uh dealers uh decided to hire me to expand their business from watches to also diamonds. I think that in the couple years that I work with them I must have sold a handful of stones. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. And I must have sold |
| Roy Davidoff | couple hundred couple hundred wristwatches. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. So they didn't mind the fact that |
| Roy Davidoff | it didn't work out as it should have because I had good |
| Andy Hoffman | So it became clear, yes, that this was your specialty and and and this was your calling. And then you know you you've you've worked for brands in the past. |
| Roy Davidoff | So exactly after I I worked for those uh dealers in uh in um in Miami, uh shout out to Matthew Bain. Um I got a job in uh Geneva working for a modern watch company called Volet. And from 2002 to 2011 that's where I was and uh this is really where I understood the workmanship. Besides you, know, you when you meet uh when you work in vintage you meet watchmakers who repair watches but when you work in manufacturing brands you meet the all the technicians and everybody who manufactures the the from the the basic parts and then the watchmakers who finish the parts and assemble them, you meet the people who are dial makers, case makers, everything and your knowledge is exp a again, my knowledge curve's exploded. That's where I met actually uh Hervé Schuster. |
| Andy Hoffman | Okay. Uh who now has his own brand. Yes. |
| Roy Davidoff | Um, really, really fantastic guy. I we we we would have long conversations where I would understand and come up to him and discuss and sometimes challenge him on how to things make things better. Or what let's say you know, when I come back from a trip, basically I would fly around the world clockwise and counterclockwise. But after a trip I would come back and him and I we would talk about like oh the market looking for this, the market asking for that, they're doing this, this is working, is not working and we talk about the future future pieces.. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes Interesting. Interesting. And and um and from uh and was it after Beauvais then that you your brother and you started the business? |
| Roy Davidoff | So yes, uh after Bobet I did a student to one year at uh Jacob and Co. |
| Andy Hoffman | Ah yes where um I |
| Roy Davidoff | I I um I met a guy who fortunately he passed away during during COVID. Uh I was mentioning him earlier to another friend that worked with him also named Pierre Favre. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. Who would have also fantastic |
| Roy Davidoff | conversations on how to better make watches and you know under s really understood the whole process of when you would design what was existing, how to simplify, how to you know longer power reserves, how to attach uh complications to a base movement, what to think of the you know the when you have to change the barrel spraingy |
| Andy Hoffman | you have to to change some of the |
| Roy Davidoff | tolerances and all these things are were were details which I was really interested not because I was a watch designer or I was an engineer, just because I wanted the brands that I work for to make better watches. And I have to understand go to the source, their engineers and the watchmakers on how to make better watches. |
| Andy Hoffman | I mean, from that experience, I mean what do you know and and and then dealing with collectors and and the public all the time. I mean, what do you think the, you know, misconceptions or misunderstandings or what is it that people don't understand about everything that goes into the business of designing, producing and selling watches. |
| Roy Davidoff | So one of the key uh components of how quote unquote expensive a watch should be is how much time goes into developing, manufacturing, decorating, assembling, and testing a watch. We can go from the basic automatic from Omega. Sorry, we can go from the basic omatic from swatch. Even um for me this is the cheapest Swiss automatic movement all the way up to you know watches that are made by uh handmade by uh Red Chef and his team or by uh Philippe Dufour or by you know Hasman Monan, Peter Mendeda um also the engineers like uh um the the engineers like uh Simon Brett that do really well. Also um you have uh Sidan Bernon, they all make fantastic um fantastic pieces but they all have different approaches. So it's interesting when you say okay, I know how much it how much time it costs to machine this. I know how much time how it's complicated to source the metal, how much loss you have. And then today some of the techniques which are more difficult, less difficult, more archaic, more handmade, more machine made, how long it takes when you can have just a guide to do the finishing or when you use it freehand. All all these details when you when you look at independent um watchmakers, you have to take into consideration. Did it take him 10 hours to decorate that bridge? Did it take him a hundred hours to decorate that bridge? How much is an hour for a watchmaker? You know, all these all these details have to come into play. When you look at some watches where um watchmakers or brands took obvious shortcuts, you understand it's gonna be a 30k watch. And then when you see a watch where they obviously took no shortcuts, for example, be their watches. You look at the watches, you look at parts you'll never see unless you go through the manufacturing process and you see the parts in your hands. Soluble bridges that are decorated the most the the they're decorated to the utmost and for me this this um this passion of mine of understanding all this helps me see things with a new eye it's the same thing why you know being a gemologist I understand uh watches with gem setting, also all the um also being a big fan for example of Cartier, uh MMA, Maison Métier d'art, all these uh handcrafts. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. me For I'm a huge fan and I understand |
| Roy Davidoff | that for example you see some brands they'll do uh cloisonne or miniature painting and you see a certain budget and you see other brands do a croisonet and a miniature painting and it's a different budget. Understanding the lack of industrial process behind it and understanding how the industrial process helps them do it better. |
| Andy Hoffman | uh in a moment and and and your role with them uh in terms of a um serving on the jury with their uh young watchmakers prize. But it it's interesting um you know you talked about a lot of independent uh watchmakers and and you know and and everything that's involved in terms of designing and producing a watch. And when I but when I, you know, first uh came across the Davidoff brothers, um, you know, y I thought of you guys were the um most important uh um Omega um speed master dealers in the world, basically. And and um and you know, and when I think about a brand like Omega or all obviously you also deal in lots of Rolex and other um big brands. You know, I think about industrial production at a at a large scale. What's it I mean w you know, where are you and then you know, we talked about Cartier, which makes a heck of a lot of watches. Where are you now? What's interesting to you in the watch world and are you still compelled and interested by um those volume manufacture brands. |
| Roy Davidoff | So um other than collecting some of these modern watch brands today um in vintage we've we've split off a little bit of doing just Speedmasters. It's a very uh we started with Speedmasters um even before the company uh was founded because I was a fan of Speedmasters because I received my father's nineteen seventy Mark II with the racing dial that he bought down the streets at a store that used to be called Colet. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. Um I also have my |
| Roy Davidoff | my my father's father, my grandfather, his C case Sea Master that he bought at the same store in nineteen seventy when they visited Geneva before my father knew he was gonna move here. When he got engaged and then later that year married to my mom. Before that it wasn't the plan, he was in Italy, he was very happy living there. For for for for me the the contrast when I speak about independence and when I speak about modern watch brands, is that again, when you see let's say uh Daytona with the retail of it, I don't speak about speculations and hype and you know uh the the the the when you when you see certain watches that are listed for 400,000 uh at some at some brand and then they sell in the secondary market for 200k or you see uh a hundredk watch uh that sells for five hundred k th that's not the question here it's not about the collectible value like basically um sneaker heads that buy sneakers for 200 bucks and sell them for 5000 no cares this isn't this is what i'm talking about um i mean no one cares this isn't the subject the subject is more um my why why my passion and what I understand. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. So when you have a certain budget, |
| Roy Davidoff | which is a probably discussion for a different day, what to buy at what budget, it's very interesting the size that I do quite often. And this is what I do for vintage watches. And this is what brought us to my brother and I opening um wanting to open the company, then open the company, is that we saw |
| Andy Hoffman | No problem. I'm |
| Roy Davidoff | going to double I don't know why I did that. I was thinking I would do that before, but I'm doing that now. |
| Andy Hoffman | Now you're Yeah, |
| Roy Davidoff | it did it on silent, but my my laptop isn't inside it. Okay, now it's inside it. Um |
| Andy Hoffman | So yeah, you were you were making this nice point though about um uh you know how you d value things and and and and how and |
| Roy Davidoff | how we understand to value things, how the the how it's made and all these things which are quite important today. Um anyways, so the the point of that is this is how my brother and I got started. We saw that let's say we would buy, we would have we decided to start a company, uh my brother sold off his watches, I was able to find money from friends and the family to lend us to start the company. Um and what do we do with this money? We have to buy smartly and sell smartly, the smartest way possible. Uh I know smartly is actually a word, but anyways. Um |
| Andy Hoffman | It is Okay. Um |
| Roy Davidoff | the point being uh second Um the point the the point being is that when we started that we were like listen there's uh there's a lack in value of speed masters in the market. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. You saw you saw uh fifteen |
| Roy Davidoff | hundred dollars. You could buy an eight six one from the 70s, 80s, 90s, and then sell it for 3K with double your money. Or you could buy a uh Daytono for 20k and sell it for 22k and make 10%. So we were like, alright, we're not gonna concentrate on what everybody else is doing, we're gonna concentrate on speedmasters and we after it's it snowballs so quickly we you know when you have like 50 speed masters that come through your hand in just a couple of months from uh early 60s to mid nineties, you you really understand it. Most most collectors see maybe in a lifetime what we would see per month. Literally per month. We at some point had probably nicer collections than the Omega Museum has. At some point. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. But you know, there's all these things is that it |
| Roy Davidoff | was really crazy. You would we would it just we started on the on the on on Instagram and uh Omega forums and then it from from word of mouth and still today you know uh thirteen years uh down the line people are like oh you're the speed master experts so we're still specializing speed masters, we still know how to recognize uh a proper one or a assembled one or whatever. We still we can still source so we still have some crazy pieces in um in our collection but we moved on after the the the fiasco that happened and uh the market just didn't hasn't recovered yet um we decided to really quickly when we saw that. |
| Andy Hoffman | And and by and and what you're talking about is the the scandal uh involving the sale of a uh Speedmaster um r remind me the the reference it was a |
| Roy Davidoff | it was a two nine one five two |
| Andy Hoffman | nine enhanced and assembled. Yes. Some some alleged a Frankenwatch. Um obviously um this was a scandal that um uh involved a watch sold by Phillips. Um it ended up um encompassing um people from the Omega Museum and from the manufacturer, um the entire um industry and and collector industry um came to look at uh omega um speed masters in a different way and and yeah, that that whole situation still hasn't been resolved legally. I believe that investigation is continuing. W quickly talk about I mean what did that do um uh to the to the market, um to speed master market, venture speed master market and where are we now do you think and yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | So we definitely haven't recovered. Um and basically it uh gave people less trust in their speed masters. We still sold for three, four years really nice speed masters but all the big clients are gone. |
| Andy Hoffman | They moved on to other things. |
| Roy Davidoff | They moved on to independence. They moved on to other paddocks. They moved on to other brands like Matic, uh, Cartier, Bachron, Cartier, exactly. Um and there was also a a created domino effect where also like nineteen fifties and sixties Rolexes are much slower today. All the really collectible Hoyers and Brightlings are also much slower. So not just Omega. Omega was kind of like it kind of like started it, and then everybody saw that, like you know, when you buy for example um uh when you buy for example you go in the store and you buy Patty Flip there's no question if it's if it's uh real or fake at a at a retailer or at uh Patty Flick and sales or when you buy a more recent one you can you can walk into uh the Patek Fili Bou boutique and give it to a washmeck and be like, is this all correct? If there's an issue then I confiscate it so don't do that if it takes it. But if you know it's correct, we just want to be sure you can bring your Rolex for example to Rolex. And they they they're not gonna give you a document saying that it's correct. But if you give it an intra service or for something, you know it it they they'll they'll um they'll confirm. Not the really, really old and really rare pieces from the twenties, thirties, forties, fifties and early sixties, but like the more recent ones, there there's no question about the originality of of of these pieces. Yep. And today clients don't want stories, don't want to wait, they want to buy something they know is correct. |
| Andy Hoffman | And the problem is that you know this um uh the issue is with validation and um you know um uh extracts from the archives, I mean it it involved Omega itself and and you know, people who worked in uh in in that department. So indeed um there was certainly some uh trust that was lost. When today when you you as you say, people have moved on um we're seeing extreme interest in in Cartier, in lots of uh uh Patek and uh and then in particular in some independents like Jorn. From you know, given your uh experience and history and you know that you've been through a bun cycles in markets, w how you know, how do you look at these sort of shifts and cycles? |
| Roy Davidoff | So it's it's um it's not a replacement like not Cartier hasn't replaced all the sports models in the market. It's just there's a shift away from sports models. There's still sports models collectors who are gonna come in and be like, I want to Hoyer at Adaya first generation because I love this watch because of XYZ reason. Uh still people who want to buy Speedmasters, 2998s, uh still people who want to buy, you know, a nice uh 70s uh 80s 90s piece or birth year piece they'll they'll still interested in these watches it's just that the bigger uh money people the the bigger money and investment or collectors uh want to shift to something where again the story is much less. It's someone uh showing you I don't know what should be a half million dollar uh uh half million or vintage watch that you don't know what happened to the watch, or a half million dollar Jorn that's worst case scenario sent into Journe for six months to be fixed. It's really the worst case scenario. Something happens to uh you know um the moon phase doesn't click or the big gate or whatever, it's it's a fixable issue. You know, uh the the independent watchmakers you have to understand that they didn't make uh industrial watches like Rodex does. I mean 99% of the stuff is done, uh designed, done, assembled, prototyped by hand, and you know, you work out some of the kinks over the years. So it just people came to trust that brand. And then when you understand that some independent brands still make thousands of watches it's a bit more it's a bit less sexy but when you know that they're only gonna make nine watches a year and they're only gonna sell through uh their retail locations and that it is whether you bought one from 2004 or 2026 it is recognizable as a genre where it's it's it's important because when you look at certain brands um and certain models even in for example if I I'm back to Cartier for quickly. Um all the the Cartier's the even if the models evolve for example um someone with the Santos Santos 100 uh the case change a little bit the |
| Andy Hoffman | Santos Galbi the Santos carried |
| Roy Davidoff | the all the different Santoses the ones not the not the the dress watch one the more sporty ones |
| Andy Hoffman | yeah they've evolved over the years but |
| Roy Davidoff | it still basically looks like the same watch the same the same uh feel and look is there journ feels like it's it hasn't aged. Pe areople appreciating it and it hasn't aged. You you cannot by looking at the watch unless you're like the world's foremost expert and you know that this particular black towel was only made once in 2012. You can't tell what year the watch is from. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yep. And you can also spot a Zorn too. |
| Roy Davidoff | Yes. And it's legible and it and it's on dateable. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. So That's interesting. |
| Roy Davidoff | It it it makes it that you don't care if it's a twenty twenty six or two thousand two, it's a journe. And that's one of the biggest strengths and wristwatches is that today you have brands that like they come up with a twenty twenty six model that looks like a different brand or universe or even century than the twenty twenty watch. Six years difference and there's no common no no commonality. And that was that's one of the my biggest issues I have with some of the some of the brands today is that um there's no there's no lot there's no commonality you you have uh two watches in the same brand that don't they're not that don't know each other. Interesting. And and and for me as a as a collector and when some of my clients they asked me all what should I buy, what should this, I'm like I try to tell them try to do the this and then when brands um evolved their pieces the one from five years ago is now has been and nobody wants it. That's why you know if you if you think of like the royal oak, whether the hype, no hype, but today some people some people come in to buy a royal oak, especially the jumbo model. If it's from first batch in the 70s, if it's from 90s, if it's from 2000s, 2010s, 20s, if it's uh 15 to 0 oh2, two 16 to sixteen two oh two it looks the same. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah I mean there are subtle differences but indeed it's the it is the it is the same. |
| Roy Davidoff | Uh cardio you can tell the difference but not the same budget. But for example when you have certain uh certain pieces uh from cardio it's very it's a lot of fun because on the dials which which when you become uh speedmaster experts like my brother and I you can tell the DAO is like this was only made like early sixty eight or you can tell this is only done like in sixty four. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah like a specific year. Like basically |
| Roy Davidoff | the DAO went from being step to no step to rounded to the asymmetric T to symmetric T's, like all these little details tells you what year, what batches of year this watch was made. And then it goes from like matte finish to slightly glossy, the omega from overload to not overload applied all all these little things that that you hear collectors say that you can date the watch. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yep. But that's really like nerdy |
| Roy Davidoff | collector. But today people are collectors but with a bit of a spec speculator heart. |
| Andy Hoffman | Sure. So it |
| Roy Davidoff | it it changed it changed the game to where they don't want to have something that they like, oh um I I wanna how did I know this doll was born in this watch? |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. So there is a there's there's there's trust issues and so people are looking for consistency and it was it it was really interesting the way you're talking about how you you know how you think the market views Jorne that a a Jorne from um two thousand and four can you know quickly looking at it on the wrist can be identified as a Jorn but uh can't tell um if it's from twenty two thousand four to uh twenty twenty-four. That is interesting. Where do you see I mean and I don't know if you can you know you want to talk specific brands or just categories? Um and you know you talked about how th one of the reasons you ended up um uh becoming specialists in speed masters was because you saw the value and the and the the margin that was available there. Wh where do you see value um in the market um right now if anywhere. |
| Roy Davidoff | So for example, um one of the brands that I really one of the actually the multiple brands that I really enjoyed selling for me is the Holy Trinity. Exactly. Long ago I heard I read an article from a journalist that said Vashron is a king that was, Addic is a king that is, and Omar is the prince on every picking. So it's really funny when I see that because you feel like in the like in the the the sweet spot of like the 70s, 80s and 90s, they made such all three brands made such great watches. And this is what we're selling the most of today. Even if a watch was made in like early 2000s it is still there was still a watch design in the 90s um and it's it's for for for for us you know when you see like uh an ellipse for like 2025,000 when, you see Calatrava from 10 to 15,000, when you see a perpetual calendar that isn't the 3940, that today the price have gone nuts because people finally understood what a great watch it is, and are willing to pay for it because it is one of the icons of the 20th century when it comes to complications. Um it's really, really uh it's a must. When you see for the oh, we we just saw the tunnel shaped, we have another one coming in with the the Groot Body. Um you have a super popular engine from Batic Fleet, but they made so many other iterations and all these other iterations I didn't get so much love in the last uh twenty thirty years all of a sudden people were like oh it's the same engine |
| Andy Hoffman | right and people were like shit I |
| Roy Davidoff | I should I should this is something I should invest in or I should buy, I should have my collection because I can't spend eighty thousand, but I can spend forty thousand. |
| Andy Hoffman | So people are starting to move you know, um everybody may know fifteen eighteen and twenty four ninety nine, thirty-nine seventy as you say, but um they're they're starting to explore uh the other references uh the the simple |
| Roy Davidoff | perpetual calendars without the chronograph. You mentioned all the all the chronographic perpetual calendars. Uh and you see that's that's the paddock is going up and then who all who else made great uh perpetuals? AP, where the perpetual actually uh what what I've heard many times people say is that the perpetual calendar and odd market gay saved brand where they made their they're fantastically made one of the one of the best integrated uh modules into the Royal Oak where the case middle is the same thickness as the time only and then they hid all the complication inside the bezel by making it a little thicker. But when you look at on your wrist, the bezel nobody notices if it's like a like a seedweller and the submariner. The seedweller is a much thicker bezel, but you don't notice it's well designed. So that's what it did with the the the Royal Oaks. Speaking specifically of the reference fifty two or two, which is the time only, and the five five five four, which is the perpetual calendar. They hit all the p all the mechanism inside the bezel and thickness. So AP was fantastic. You had also at the same time, you had Vashron making also their own in-house perpetual calendar. That was also incredible using the same base uh geje automatic movement as uh batek philippe as ap and as uh vacheron sorry as uh yeah, sorry, and Vashron, I said before. Uh so Vashron made a really nice captured calendar. And what's really fun is that brands like AP and Vashron made him skeleton, they made them uh bezils with uh gem sets, they did different types of bracelets. Uh an AP even did like one of the world's smallest automatic patchal calendars in 30 millimeters. They made a special edition in 33 millimeters in platinum that was manual beautiful um a perpetual same module as uh the automatic that's you can find whether time only or in royal low case which is uh such a such a such a cute and great little wristwatch. Um not to not to forget to mention as well Breguet. Breguet also did some incredible petrol calendars so all you have also a lot of brands on the side that did some some really nice stuff but really um Patek AP Vachron and Reggae are like the best in that area for for uh late seventies uh uh eighties and nineties. |
| Andy Hoffman | And so that's where you see the collector interest but you are are you also saying though that you know people are are discovering value there or or s seeking value there |
| Roy Davidoff | under you know, underappreciated. It's underappreciated. You get an old I mean underappreciated today people asking crazy prices. Uh really crazy prices. But the fact remains that uh there's still value in there. |
| Andy Hoffman | Are there any m you know other sort of mainstream vintage and neo-vintage pieces, brands, categories? I mean yeah, it's it's quite interesting and and and you're quite specific in terms of that that Holy Trinity and and add bregae in there and and maybe a few other names. But yeah, I mean, you know, um vintage vintage hoyer uh, Omega, um you know, w w w what w is there is are there any brands like that you think that are are due for a a a resurgence or a return in interest? And then what and then Karte is a whole separate story, which we |
| Roy Davidoff | will. Um markets have cyclic I for sure know that in a couple of years people gonna start sort of having their journey again, collecting all the icons of warrior um the Ottavias the Carreras the original the Monacos uh we saw uh one of the last Monacos from um |
| Andy Hoffman | from the Mans uh that that Steve was on Steve Mc |
| Roy Davidoff | Exactly. Yeah. Didn't |
| Andy Hoffman | do as well as hoped. It's |
| Roy Davidoff | okay. It still went up to auction. It was it was seen, there was some documentation about it. Uh it |
| Andy Hoffman | was very the provenance was very strong. |
| Roy Davidoff | Yeah, that's really really cool. You have also in brightling uh which is which is but these are more um you'd realize that they made thousands of them. Like you know if people say like a fifteen eighteen they made two hundred fifty eight or two hundred and fifty something. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. That's it. Yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | So you know that this is a finite number and that's all you're gonna that's all that remained. Um and then there's different variations, but like other brands they made like they made like a thousand or thousands with banca first generation, then like ten thousand second generation. This was more mainstream. |
| Andy Hoffman | So again, if you understand |
| Roy Davidoff | uh and and then for example a paddock Philippe, you take it to the to the shop, we have your washmaker open it, you send it for archives, they tell you it's correct, it's born with uh this white dial or this this silver dial, black dial, this whatever color dial, um it was yellow gold, rose gold, they it gives you all the information. The other brands, you can't tell if the dial was changed. You can't tell if parts were swapped as a regular collector, they come to people like us and many of the dealers that uh in our network that we work with to check or to buy without having to worry about it. Um today, for example, I was speaking with a with a dear friend from an a Geneva based brand and he tells people it was it's not always good to find cheapy watches at these like little known options because when you have the watch in your hands and it's gonna cost you like three K to repair the watch, you save a thousand bucks compared to a dealer, but then you're two thousand bucks and a hole because most dealers should provide a warranty. And the watch has already been cleaned, it's been checked, the watchmaker, like every watch that we get, for example, we have it checked um either padded we order an archives and every other brand we check with the |
| Andy Hoffman | brand. Right. We have our watchmaker open |
| Roy Davidoff | it, check it, time it, uh all that all the numbers matches, everything is on the |
| Andy Hoffman | But we can't do this, yeah. I mean y but we can't do this with every brand and obviously you know it |
| Roy Davidoff | nearly can. Well |
| Andy Hoffman | talk to me about you know Rolex and CPO and as as a vintage dealer. I mean, you know, I don't think I've ever heard you articulate, you know, what Rolex CPO means for the market and and how it's changed things and and how we should think about it. |
| Roy Davidoff | Uh very simply. Um Rolex saw how well dealers are doing. We might be known but we're still not that big. But you have some dealers that move like thousands of Rolexes a month. It's crazy. And Rolex's like, why can't we do that? And I see how much they're asking for their CPOs compared to regular watches, but regardless if there are service parts, you are sure that they were installed by Rolex. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. So it gives you this additional trust, |
| Roy Davidoff | but it takes away from the originality. But we like, for example, when you buy a vintage car, you don't want you want to buy a car that has like ten, twenty thousand miles. You don't want to buy a car that has two hundred thousand miles. Because if it's two hundred thousand miles, you understand that everything is tired. And if something breaks, something else will break after. But if you buy a low mileage car, you have a lot less trouble, just change the oil. And if it wasn't crashed, you're good to go for another 10-20 years. This is really different with vintage wristwatches. When you buy something that hasn't been abused, you can get a long life out of it. But if you buy a watch that has like you can notice it that it has like 300,000 miles or 400,000 miles, you know that you it's funny when I see people that bring watches like Speedmasters in um for service and they come back with like a baggie with like a hundred parts and stuff. And I'm like, what happened to your watch? And they're like, they have to change everything because everything was tired. Compared to like you bring a a watch that's like super clean, uh never been serviced, uh they they'll they'll they'll throw in there like maybe the hands because uh they were stuck and then like one wheel and one gasket. So we know that they didn't change anything. So this is this is why we try to every watch we buy, we try to buy a low mileage uh timepiece. That's that's |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. Um and you know, I I just saw you this week at um in in uh Le Chau de Fond, New Chatel, um at the Cartier Young Watchmakers Prize, which was taking place. You were on the jury, you were a judge. Um tell us about that process and and this whole prize and and you know um where we are in terms of you know young um uh people and being interested in watches and and and learning the profession and learning the skill. |
| Roy Davidoff | So um the funny thing I would say now is not funny the thing I would say now is that young people are the future. |
| Andy Hoffman | Um are you saying children are the future, right? |
| Roy Davidoff | No children are just uh there's something else. Um now point being is when you see uh anyways I had the opportunity now twenty twenty four I was approached by somebody who works for Cartier, uh become a dear friend as well. He's like, oh we're doing this uh Cartier Pride, blah blah, would you like to be a member of the jury? And I was like, I don't know what this is, but yes. And then uh I got um I got to the first um jury meeting and here we had uh carry boutilinen |
| Andy Hoffman | uh pascal ratsou which i knew uh from the |
| Roy Davidoff | fatali who's uh uh associate curator of the MIH the Museum of Orology and uh Pascal de Bou, who's in charge of the Cardi collection. |
| Andy Hoffman | For Katya. And then me. I was like, whatever. |
| Roy Davidoff | But it was a lot of fun. So we meet all these young, you know, there there was there's there's two different um |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah, there's uh there's apprentices and technicians. There's two uh categories. Um |
| Roy Davidoff | and what's really fantastic is to see with the limited out a limited amount of time that they have |
| Andy Hoffman | to be. the piece. Yeah, I've worked. |
| Roy Davidoff | Limited budget that they have. I find that to be mind blowing what they're able to produce. Some of them I was like I wish I was able to give the prize to like not just one, like many of them. Because as I come from the manufacturing background, I understand how difficult it is to do multimedium things. You know, when you see a watch today, that's a complication, that's gem set that's enamel that's from a high end uh finishing on the movement and skeleton ice all these things separately are amazing and having two three four or five of them is really tough it's really the the best thing in world. |
| Andy Hoffman | And this usually means and the and there's and there's several different artisans that have done each of those um uh facets. Yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | Exactly. And in some of these cases these kids have done the whole |
| Andy Hoffman | thing. Sometimes |
| Roy Davidoff | you know the you know the term uh etabisser |
| Andy Hoffman | yeah this is this is the way we describe the the the various facet suppliers, component makers of the industry and how it all comes together. |
| Roy Davidoff | uh works with marble and is able to do a marble uh part of the clock I can put inside because oh my friend knows how to do a 3D printing she can 3D print a um she can 3D print some parts and then all my friends are jeweler and she can make me like gemset little things and like all my friend is this and I'll and it's it's quite fascinating. Like somebody had uh they tro what it's called the um like what you have in churches. Um the the windows. |
| Andy Hoffman | Ah stained glass. Yes exactly. One |
| Roy Davidoff | guy they basically did like a stained glass clock that was floating in the shape of a crash from Carrier. It was like, this is this is crazy. And I was like, ah, like I wish, you know, I I mean uh it was really really cool and and then they're they're and they're like, oh I know somebody who does that. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. So that and that mirrors the the |
| Roy Davidoff | wild process of the project. They have somebody else working on that also basically like and and this skill of being able to be like okay I can do this by myself but I'm gonna need the help for ABCD. It's like Hasman Mana. Hasman Mana, for example, they can produce the parts, they can decorate the part, they can assemble, regulate the parts to make sorry, to make their their watches. But the cases they leave it to somebody else. |
| Andy Hoffman | Exactly, yeah. That's and and then almost nobody does everything. I mean even Rolex doesn't do everything. Yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | So that's a that's a that's uh they they they're very often financially invested into their suppliers. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes they are. Yes they are it's |
| Roy Davidoff | it's uh it's it's so you could say that they do everything. It's like Kari, Kari Vuj Landon. He owns the whole process. Movement dial case. Rechap. He owns the whole process. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. Pretty much. I mean |
| Roy Davidoff | he's an enamel uh enameler, he's a case maker, |
| Andy Hoffman | strap maker now. You |
| Roy Davidoff | know, so he this is and this is what's so beautiful about an industry is you're gonna have certain people say I know how to make movements I'm gonna make the movements and decorate them the best way possible and then other ones are like I don't like how this case was made I'm gonna figure out how to make the best cases and then in the case of Red Chap, but intended, he was able to take out a retirement Hagman, give him a and uh fifth or sixth career. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | And he was able to to to pass on the case making knowledge. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. Yes. And and and |
| Roy Davidoff | now that's what they that's what they're doing. They're they basically he |
| Andy Hoffman | Interesting, yeah. Yes, and he brought him back and now obviously um his most recent piece um uh th they made the case. Um but it's not you know, Mr. Hagman died last year I guess it was. And um uh indeed that you know that pr that knowledge has been has been passed on. |
| Roy Davidoff | This is so important. You know, um the same thing I remember when uh Jean Claude Bivert took over Hublot and wanted to bring it up in quality, there weren't enough watchmakers. So his idea was to take watchmakers out of retire And I'm like, that is brilliant. Did you know about that? |
| Andy Hoffman | I did not. He took watchmakers |
| Roy Davidoff | out of retirement because they had the knowledge and they're sitting at home doing the thumbs. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. So it's this is you know, |
| Roy Davidoff | as the same time we're speaking about young watchmakers who are either gonna do everything by themselves and and whether they're apprentices or technicians or and they have the the the knowledge skill or they know where the skills are, which is a skill itself. It's very interesting when you when you see that like they're 17, 18, 19, 20 years old. When I was 20, I knew how to sell watches. I knew where to go clubbing and my mom did my laundry. And they're they're and and and technically they're like reinventing the way we see time. They're they're thinking outside the box. They're seeing what has been done and they're they're like okay I saw this and I want to bring the time back so I'm gonna change the gear the gear train and make my watch go backwards. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. Even though it has been done, |
| Roy Davidoff | but usually these brands spend like eighteen months in R D and they did it in eighty hours. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah, no, it it it was really interesting. I mean the prompt, I guess, you know, one of the prompts was to consider uh you know different ways of of telling the time |
| Roy Davidoff | exact prompt was changing the balance reading and understanding time differently. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. So that's |
| Roy Davidoff | one of the reasons why one person won first prize, and that's one reason why another person didn't win first prize but some of the skills and the multimedium skills again I'm repeating was just |
| Andy Hoffman | yeah no the it was I was impressed it was uh it was you know, my first exposure and the and the actual um uh prize has been around for twenty eight years. They've uh you know, and and Cartier's been quite uh hasn't you know really communicated. And and now they and now they are and |
| Roy Davidoff | it's and next year they're also gonna do it with jewelry. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. Yes they are, which is which is obviously uh uh an uh d you know, a a key element of uh that maison. It's uh it's the you know, it's it's that they are a jewelry maker. Um and we're you know w considering how long you've been around the industry we're talking about young watchmakers uh who are learning the skills and and um uh and developing you know ways to express themselves and ideas through those skills. I mean, what is your sense of where watchmaking is in the culture as a whole? You know, I mean, the the auctioneers talk about how much bigger the market is. I mean obviously there was the COVID and post uh COVID era where everybody in the world seemed to be interested in watches, but you know, where are we with watch making and and watches in culture and what's your outlook for the future? |
| Roy Davidoff | Watchmaking as in all the new watchmakers, speaking about uh people like Hadman |
| Andy Hoffman | Mm. Sure, or just just in where watchmaking is in you know, the public consciousness and in in you know in in in terms of you know, are there it are are there more young people interested in watches these days than there used to be? Everyone says that is th they are there are, but d tell me |
| Roy Davidoff | um I had uh an apprentice that was uh fourteen, fifteen years old. Uh his great-grandfather and grandfather worked with my grandfather and father. I actually uh know his his uh his uncle, his mom's brother from when I was young and uh we started talking and I was like come have a new uh internship with us and then at the same time people telling me oh young kids don't care about wristwatches anymore and I was like how wrong you are I remember when I used to wear Panorai in the late nineties |
| Andy Hoffman | which was cool eight hundred dollars for it it |
| Roy Davidoff | was like one of the it was a single digit uh PAM tritium dial. Um people were like, I I don't know what the same what this is. Like and I was I lived in affluent uh circle and didn't understand what it was. Fathers of people the adults had one, two, three watches. Today, when you when you when you come in an affluent area, if you become, if you have a watch, some of these people have like 50 100 watches. It is not 10 times more. It's sometimes 50 times more than it used to be It's it's and you see these this younger generation that they see, you know, uh I remember um uh uh you would see like the Bill Gates wearing like the cheeky cat though and you would see like leading up wearing like regular watches. And then you see like the new the second generation leaders of enterprise and then all the leading men on on TV, old school leading men, again, you could see them wearing like their one or two or maybe three watches. You know, you would say like a you know when you think of like um a Paul Newman for example. |
| Andy Hoffman | Sure. Rather famous uh in the watchworld. |
| Roy Davidoff | How many watches do you see him wearing? |
| Andy Hoffman | There's a few, but not that many. You know, maybe with our maybe ten it if if even |
| Roy Davidoff | if you can get to ten you're lucky. Yeah. I mean you |
| Andy Hoffman | know uh Steve McQueen. |
| Roy Davidoff | How many watches did you wear? Ma |
| Andy Hoffman | maybe is it four or five? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | Today every time you see a picture of Timothy Chalamet on on anything, he's wearing either an ultra modern watch, |
| Andy Hoffman | a vintage. Urban jurgensen certainly modern |
| Roy Davidoff | urban jugitsen or a different version of the crash. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. You see these people, you know, they're they're |
| Roy Davidoff | I I I see sometimes I have clients and friends that collect all across the board and every six months they're buying themselves another Jacob watch. Because my friend works for Jacob so she's always telling me like oh he bought this you know like uh 'cause on the Instagram that she shows me. But he also buys everything el |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. You know, you you you |
| Roy Davidoff | see I have uh it's it's really become for example, how many watches do you have, Andy? |
| Andy Hoffman | Well that's that's a very personal question. But I have it I've it I've at least forty or fifty watches, yeah. Yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | And someone, a journalist, let's say you're in the watch business, but different, but let's say forty years ago, how many watches would you have? |
| Andy Hoffman | Uh well I would it would have been how m like how many watches I had before I started covering watches, which is two. |
| Roy Davidoff | Yeah. So I grew up I grew up keeping I had like I had like my my family quote unquote watches. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. And then I always had like two, |
| Roy Davidoff | three watches. And then today it's like every time I'm like, okay, this watch can hold twenty watches, as soon as this watch is watchbox is full, I stopping to collect and I just buy more watchboxes. |
| Andy Hoffman | Last thing I mean um uh we're talking about young people, we're talking about the future of the industry. Um you deal in you know, um high end luxury uh vintage and neo vintage watches. But what what's your sense of um how the industry can succeed uh and how it should you know go forward in um watches being approachably priced and uh you know still being um uh objects of desire. For example, I I would love to hear your take on the Royal Pop, the Udemar PA by Swatch um collaboration. Yeah, I mean how does the industry deal with you know prices and affordability. |
| Roy Davidoff | When the Moon Swatch came out, everybody and their mother had one on the wrists. I still I I basically gave away half the ones I have. I only kept either the Snoopies or the blue ones. Everything else is not really good. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. My my little cousins are very happy. |
| Roy Davidoff | And other friends as well. A friend comes over and she's like, oh it's really cute on my kit gift. I'm like I don't I'm not gonna wear it, I don't have time to sell it, I don't care. Point being I've never seen a royal pop in the wild. |
| Andy Hoffman | I have yet to see one as well. In the wild. I've seen one, but yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | No, no, I've seen them at the shop. In the display. I have never seen one in the wild. |
| Andy Hoffman | But is that because but would where would you see it? I don't think you don't wear it on the wrist. |
| Roy Davidoff | So I was really excited because uh swatch tease does really well. They put uh lanyard, they put the click, and they put the pattern of the royal Look dial and they said the royal Pop or the Royal Whatever or Pop, whatever they they used it. And I was like, Oh, it's gonna be um like a charm. And I had my bag right there, and I was looking forward to having a the blue one to put uh on my on my briefcase. |
| Andy Hoffman | Right. And I don't care, |
| Roy Davidoff | I don't need it it I didn't make a difference. But I've uh and again I've yet to see one the blond came out I would see them in the |
| Andy Hoffman | wilds, yeah. Yeah. The |
| Roy Davidoff | fifty fathoms. I would I see them all the dragons and all that stuff, the the the the sea creatures from the different uh oceans and y I still see them in the wild. I have yet to see a royal pop in the wild. So for me, other than |
| Andy Hoffman | We certainly saw that we certainly saw that what happened on the day when they went on sale though. |
| Roy Davidoff | Yes, but it was a hundred percent speculators on the first day. Collectors don't behave that way. There is always like a code or respect or whatever you call it. And for me it's it's uh it's not negative, it's not positive, it just is. People always ask me like, oh uh do you want to sell your your Royal Oak now that uh they came there without? I'm like listen, if they had made a bracelet watch, I'd be pissed. |
| Andy Hoffman | But I knew they weren't, so I wasn't |
| Roy Davidoff | pissed at any time. I I want one. And that's that's where it ends. That's that there isn't anything more than that. It's a collab like they did with the museums, it's a collab like they did with um Snoopy, with uh the Keith Herring, with uh you know, I'm a I'm a big fan for example of Chagal. Uh another one but one of my good friends is also so I got her for her birthday, I got her the Changal one. You know, it's like uh another friend he likes um uh bascia so i got set from bascia you know it's it's all these things are it's just swatch just just thus collabs because that's one of their core businesses is collabs it just this collab people felt it was weird but the Pops watch I used to have in the 80s and I loved it I used to wear it on my clipped on my t-shirts I'm not really holding but on those but again it doesn't you know it's it's not like uh it's there there isn't a n for me anybody who sees a negative impact is looking for something negative. Right. They're not I I like to I have very strong opinions about things and sometimes they'll be like strong and sound negative, but I'm always gonna try to find the good first. |
| Andy Hoffman | Sure. So so what you you know other than then swatch and a swatch collab that speaks to someone, I mean what's your um your recommendation for you know um somebody's first watch, say sub thousand francs or dollars? |
| Roy Davidoff | All right. My favorite my one of my actually one of my one of my because there are multiple of them favorite sub uh 1000 uh watch um I love uh like very one's gonna be the PRX. |
| Andy Hoffman | Tops, great watch. Which |
| Roy Davidoff | I basically wore probably a dozen times showing up to AP, showing them this data is better than your data. |
| Andy Hoffman | The while being already two real Interesting. |
| Roy Davidoff | Uh until I sold it to a friend who wanted to have a access watch and I was like I don't wear and I have too many watches to wear so I started selling off all the little ones. Uh another watch is Charlotte Marie. |
| Andy Hoffman | Mm-hmm. For Lamari. Great watch. Great brand. |
| Roy Davidoff | Uh great young guy. Baltic. Yeah. Fun watches. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yep. I really prefer um |
| Roy Davidoff | from the earlier ones. Now they're they have to they have to grow so they have to do things. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah, and they're getting a little more uh you know to there's there's not a lot under that in under that thousand yeah |
| Roy Davidoff | sub two thousand. Sub two |
| Andy Hoffman | thousand. Tell me. Sub two thousand |
| Roy Davidoff | my absolute favorite brand this last three or four years has been Raymond Wild. |
| Andy Hoffman | Interesting. Yeah, see. Yep. |
| Roy Davidoff | Which I was like, people are like, oh, it's |
| Andy Hoffman | their integrated brace bracelet to sport watch. |
| Roy Davidoff | I'm like it's sold two thousand like what? Because I wanna get one and I was like why it's two seconds though you you were you were you were like bitching about it and I'm like shit it's a cool watch. I'm like yeah, they came out with their uh toccata. |
| Andy Hoffman | Toccata, yeah, very nice, fantastic |
| Roy Davidoff | watch, manual wound, uh beautiful blue dial, and before that they came out with um which I I I happened to see in pre-pre pre preview uh when they were still in development I was like holy shit is gonna kill it and then basically they won the GPHD with that they |
| Andy Hoffman | did uh a few months later so |
| Roy Davidoff | those three those those three watches individually would kill it. This one brand has all three at the same |
| Andy Hoffman | time. Okay. Sub five thousand. |
| Roy Davidoff | So sub five thousand you have quite a quite a quite a big choice. Um I tell people to either buy entry level vintage like a speed master at that point. |
| Andy Hoffman | Thirsty yeah you can you can you can get a speedy pro five |
| Roy Davidoff | thousand you could it before but now you can. You still can be from from three and a Swiss francs three and a half to maybe five thousand you get a nice speedy pro, |
| Andy Hoffman | three dim or not. Yeah. So five thousand. |
| Roy Davidoff | The perfect ones would be more but the one that's clean and wearable for another fifty years. Um sub ten thousand it becomes more difficult. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes uh because the the |
| Roy Davidoff | the choices widen. I try to send I try for me Cartier |
| Andy Hoffman | Yes. Barely, but yeah. |
| Roy Davidoff | Six, seven thousand Well |
| Andy Hoffman | they're getting up there, yeah. And the titani the new titanium one I believe is |
| Roy Davidoff | Yeah, but now that's just that's just like I can make a fun titanium watch because I can. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. This isn't this isn't in the DNA |
| Roy Davidoff | of Cardi whatsoever titanium isn't, but they're making a fun watch and other people are like they don't want that clunky watch because it's still a bit heavy and I think they love |
| Andy Hoffman | it. And then once you go into like |
| Roy Davidoff | the sub-15, sub-20 retail, you have all the Rolex models. |
| Andy Hoffman | Mm-hmm. And then once |
| Roy Davidoff | you pass the the 20 marks, you can get any cool vintage watch, you can get like a petrol calendar from AP simple model. You can get uh sub thirty you can also get the Vash from one, you can get sometimes even annual calendars from Paddocky under twenty thousand sweat strengths or at twenty thousand spirit strengths. Yes, fifty thirty-five. I sold them for like 195.. |
| Andy Hoffman | R Rightight. Interesting. |
| Roy Davidoff | Maybe now that like 21, but it's still you're getting a lot of value for the money. You can get for like around 30,000. Um, you can get more elaborated perpetuals and even break A's you can get under twenty if I mentioned again uh some fantastic pieces. Today, for example, uh this is gonna be self promotion, but I'll self promote one watch today. |
| Andy Hoffman | Well you you you know, you you've you've given us all this |
| Roy Davidoff | For like thirty six thousand Swiss francs you can get a solid gold full set breget tourbillon. Hmm. Crazy. |
| Andy Hoffman | From from what era? Basically |
| Roy Davidoff | it's the architecture from the Roth era. And it's the same architecture as Daniel Roth, where very intelligently he realized early on that the the when wheel was going to cover the Torbilly on cage. So he removed uh all the hour indication in a smaller counter at 12 o'clock. That's why Brigade and Roth have the same look. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. Um and it became an iconic |
| Roy Davidoff | way to have the turbion if you look at all the other turbions from the eighties and nineties, other than the AP ones, which were the first two were a bit weird and then the later ones were all standard like bashron. You always have this one wheel below the hour emitted hands that's covering part of the Torbillon cage that drives me crazy. But but But um no, I break the break a salt assault that it's fantastic. |
| Andy Hoffman | Interesting. Okay. But so well well li the the you know money is no object. What is the ultimate grail for you? What is you know um uh endgame watch? W what is that? |
| Roy Davidoff | So funny enough, a watch that uh the dial resembles the most the Royal Pop I like that is the Miller Repeater uh Royal Oak from AP because it has a subsecond that looks just like the Royal Pop. And this is one of my you know wear under your sleeve, nobody knows what it is. You can activate the the repeater and then it's holy shit. no There's there's nothing on the dial that tells you how important that watches because the slide is on the left side. So it's really, really incognito. Um |
| Andy Hoffman | It's still a royal oak, but but indeed, yeah, that you don't know what kind of royal oak it is. |
| Roy Davidoff | Other than that, of course, you know I would love one day um to have a Dufour, uh Kari, uh Reg, many other independents. Uh it's it's no money I would, but again, um I to wanna be able wear my watches and I wanna be able to be like I can't leave my shop with this on my wrists. I wanna be able to be, I can leave my shop with this on my wrists. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um anything else we should know about um what's coming up for you and and and the uh and the business in the in the near future? |
| Roy Davidoff | So we're trying to grow. We're trying to grow with finger out of ways to grow, which right now it's a bit difficult but we're we're we have we have uh we have things uh growing. Um business wise we're quite happy because uh we've been really sourcing very well some important watches. Today again, uh gonna be a shameless uh plug. We have a a fantastic grand competition by A P which was a concentrerie carillon, |
| Andy Hoffman | one of five with open case back. |
| Roy Davidoff | Really a watch that I put on my somebody I came in the shop and putting on my wrist to be like, oh look at this cool watch. And I was like, and I looked at it and I was like, can I buy it? And he was like, uh that wasn't the plan. And I was like, no no no, I I wanna I wanna I wanna own and sell this. Like I you know it's like it it like it like touched me deep. |
| Andy Hoffman | Yeah. Because you see the doll is finished, like a break a |
| Roy Davidoff | doll. It feels like a it feels like Kari was involved in the uh in this mar from early two thousands. Um and then we did really well. We bought a bunch of novelists in the last couple of uh the last year, year and a half and there's been like flying off the shelves. We just have we have one which is uh quite important. We're asking uh an obnoxious price for it but it is according to my research, the earliest double signed ever made. |
| Andy Hoffman | Hm. And and it double signed with who? Ah, with Kubilon. |
| Roy Davidoff | Yeah. Okay. So we're asking a very strong price because I'm I'm I'm I mean we need to sell it but I don't care about if I sell it I I love the watch so much someday one day one day someone's gonna come in and be like okay I'll I'll I'll make you an offer that I can't refuse but until then I'm like no no um this is a fantastic watch. |
| Andy Hoffman | And last thing, I mean um uh for any collector, is there any bit of concise I mean you know, some people say buy what you love. Um let's have your three rules right. |
| Roy Davidoff | First rule is condition, condition, condition. If you buy a new watch, it's besides the point, but when you buy a vintage, it needs to be perfect dial, perfect case, perfect movement. Second rule is buy what you love. Don't care what people tell you like oh you should buy this. Walk in, you fall in love with it, you're like, holy shit, I didn't know I needed this. Buy what you love. And the third rule I tell people I say buy within your budget. If you have a budget of like eight K and you can spend nine, it's okay, but don't buy a twenty K watch. So there's the re the three rules besides the fact that trust buy the seller. But that's a universal rule, it's not my rule. |
| Andy Hoffman | Very good. Right, Davidoff. Thank you for joining us on the business of watches. Thank you very much. Well done, sir. Was there any yeah, it was a little long, but it's it's good. Uh any was there anything we wanted to hit that we didn't? 'Cause we didn't talk about the watch fairs, which is fine. Uh it's good we talked about |
| Roy Davidoff | Yeah, that's a yeah. |