The Business of Watches [027] Angelus and Arnold & Son CEO Pascal Béchu¶
Published on Wed, 27 May 2026 15:00:00 +0000
The CEO of the two distinct brands tells us what brings Angelus and Arnold & Son together and what sets them apart.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of The Business of Watches, host Andy travels to La Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland, to interview Pascal Bechu, CEO of both Arnold & Son and Angelus—two distinct Swiss watch brands owned by Japan's Citizen Group. The conversation explores how Bechu manages these very different heritage brands in today's challenging market.
Arnold & Son traces its lineage to John Arnold, one of 18th-century Britain's most important watchmakers who revolutionized marine chronometry and navigation. The brand, relaunched in Switzerland in the 1990s and acquired by La Joux-Perret manufacture in 2011, focuses on high complications with 60% of pieces in precious metals, priced from 16,000 to 200,000 Swiss francs. Angelus, founded in 1891 in Le Locle, has deep expertise in chronographs and complications. After ceasing production during the quartz crisis, it was relaunched in 2015 with modern, innovative designs before pivoting back to its heritage roots. The brand achieved a major milestone in 2024 when its chronograph télémètre won the GPHG chronograph prize—the first such award for the Citizen Group. This success validated the brand's strategy of honoring its historical complications while maintaining a modern collection.
Bechu discusses navigating current market challenges including rising gold prices (resulting in modest 2-5% price increases), Middle East instability, U.S. tariffs, and currency fluctuations. Despite these headwinds, both brands are experiencing growth, particularly in the high-end segment above 50,000 Swiss francs. He emphasizes the importance of agility, exclusivity (Angelus produces only 300 pieces annually across fewer than 25 retailers worldwide), and offering exceptional value and craftsmanship that appeals to collectors seeking unique pieces with compelling stories rather than mainstream alternatives.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Welcome to the business of watches, the hodicky podcast where horology meets high finance and we talk to the executives driving the industry. This week we're in La Chaudefont to speak with Pascal Bechu, who heads both the Arnold and Son and the Angelus brands. They're both Swiss-based assets owned by Japan Citizen Group. And they are very different brands. Angelus is a revived historic Swiss mark known for its chronographs that won a GPHG for its chronograph telemetre last year. Arnold and Son is a very different story, a revived take on the work of John Arnold, one of the UK's most important historical watchmakers. We talked to Bechu about how he manages both these very different brands in today's challenging market. But first, a bit of business news. We had Richemont's full year financial results last week, and they were a mixed bag, led by Carche Van Van Cleaf and our pal Richemont's Jewelry Division remains the main sales and profit driver for the Swiss-based luxury conglomerate. We also got some insight into the watch market from the company that owns Vacheron Constantin, Géger Le Coutre And IWC. Middle East sales have been hit hard by the conflict in the region, with overall sales dropping 3% in the fourth quarter between January and March as, tourists in Dubai have abandoned the region, at least temporarily. The U.S., though, remains defiantly strong, with sales in the Americas up 17% year over year and 18% in the fourth quarter. While the specialist watchmakers division sales fell 4% year over year, they were up 2% in the fourth quarter at constant currencies in the company cited strong performance from Vachon, Giel, among others. Speaking of Gel, Richmond chairman Johann Rupert quashed reports that the company was considering a sale of JLC, don't believe it, Rupert told analysts and media on a conference call. So now the question is how the US market holds up if higher gas and food prices persist. We get' morell insight as Richemont reports its next sales report in the summer. And now here's our conversation with Pascal Bechoux, the CEO of Arnold and Son and Angelus Pascal Bechu, the CEO of Arnold and Son and Angelus. Uh we are in La Joupure. Uh you showed us around uh the facilities today, and uh we saw your operation for the first time. Thank you very much for uh welcoming us here. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Thank you very much, Andy. That's a pleasure to have you here. I would like to say finally, because we know each other for some time, and that's the first time that you come and visit us. So thank you for being with us today. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Indeed. It's yeah, we have known each other for a long time. You are a constant presence here in the Swiss watch industry. But for those who don't know Arnold and Son and Angelis. They're two brands that you and you head them both. They are related brands, but they are quite separate in their history and quite separate in the kind of um timepieces they make. So let's start with Arnold and Son, which is the you know, the higher end um and you know, a basically a British UK brand in its origin with John Arnold. Talk about you know what Arnold and Son is. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Yeah so Arnold and Son is the is the oldest uh watch brand between uh between the two. Actually it's even one of the oldest watch brand in the in the industry. The brand has been founded in 1764 in London, and John Arnold is recognized as one of the greatest watchmakers, not only of the 18th century, but I would say I would say globally. You have to put yourself back in the 18th century. Navigation back in those years were uh critical, uh especially for the British Empire, for an island, uh, being able to connect all the territories, connect the different continents, facilitate the trade. And uh that's the reason why the British government decided to pass the Longitude act in seventeen fourteen, giving a reward to whoever would be providing a technique, a solution to be able to calculate the longitude. And the first one who was |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | a contest. Yeah, it was it was a contest. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | But an important, very important one. A very important one. It was really strategic for the country. And the first one who did it was John Harrison. And uh he created the H1, which is really a piece of history of watchmaking, but a very massive uh clock, very fragile, took him two years to make this prototype. And as you can imagine it's not something easy to move from one ship to another. And John Arnold approximately 30 years after in 1770 John Arnold came with an instrument, a marine instrument of his making, uh that was actually much more compact. So he really uh uh improved uh the the the the creation of the mechanism simplified, make it more accurate, and uh also uh much easier to replicate. So in six months he managed to make uh 30 of those instruments, and this is giving the tone really of what has been the work of John Arnold, improving the accuracy, the reliability of timepieces of his time, and making the longitude uh which was an issue for the British Empire, an opportunity actually back in those years to uh dominate the oceans of the world, actually. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | And how did then John Arnold get to where we are today with Arnold and Son um and th this brand. I mean, you know, talk about that evolution and how it ends up as a Swiss-based company owned by Japan Citizen Group. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So uh this is only one of the chapters of the very rich history of John Arnold. There's been many others. Uh we could speak about the first chronometer made by John Arnold, the Arnold number thirty six in seventeen seventy nine, praised as the most precise time piece ever made. We could have speak also about his friendship with Abraham Lou Breguet and another great watchmaker of the eighteenth century. But beyond all those achievements, John Arnold also had a son actually that happened to be trained by Mr. Bregge himself as a watchmaker. When John Arnold was doing the opposite, training the son of Mr. Breguet. And the son of John Arden, John Roger Arnold, continued the work of his father. That's why we have not only Arnold but Arnold Hanson. And the company stopped production around 1860 because John Roger Arnold had no children, so no continuity in in the the brand back in those years. And the brand came back in uh in Switzerland in the mid-90s through a company that was called in those years British Masters, and that was the company actually that uh relaunched the Bram Graham and Arnold Denson. So the idea was really to bring back at the forefront British watchmaking. Everyone has to remember that watchmaking uh mainly happened in uh in London and Paris before before moving to Switzerland. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | And America. And and and America |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | as well. That's correct, Andy. So this uh company, British Masters, uh, relaunched both brands and the manufacturer La Jou Perret decided to acquire Arnold Denson. The manufacturer was back in the late nineties and beginning of the year two thousand a supplier of the brand in terms of movement. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Yes. And that's and they still are today and we are at basically the La Jou Peret um uh manufacturer um in the Chaudhon. But yes, so they they acquired the brand in the in the nineteen nineties. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | They acquired the brand. The manufacturer itself has been acquired by Citizen Group one year after in 2012. And pretty much as the Manufacture L'Ajou Pérez, there's a completely new management that came on board also on the brand side in 2020 and uh that's uh what you you've seen over the last six years of big change uh and development of arnold on Arnold and Son, but Angelus as well. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | And Angelus as well. And then yeah, I mean, you know, let's let's talk about Angelus as well. Um, you're also uh in charge of that brand. Uh and how does Angelus fit into it uh at all? And Angelus made, you know, big headlines last year by winning GPHG uh for its cr you know, for the chronograph prize for its telemetra in in gold. Um congratulations. But uh yeah, let's talk about the evolution of Angelus and and how it fits in. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Thank you. Thank you, Andy. So Angelus, it's uh Swiss brand from the very beginning, uh created in Leloch, so very close from where we are today. Back in 1891, the brand uh became instantly the specialist for chronograph and repeaters. Afterwards, you had additional complications that came to the stable of movement that the brand had, like alarm, calendar watches, uh long power reserve movement. That's really the kind of mechanism for which the brand was very well known. And the brand was known for its own collection, but also for providing movements to other brands. And uh probably some of the most iconic collaborations were maybe with uh with uh with Stephanie with Long Power Reserve Movement in the thirties and forties. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Through Tiffany, the the the famed uh US jewelry brand indeed, yeah. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Panerai also Panerai, uh yes the first chronograph uh prototype Marino Strum was equipped with a movement from Angelus, but also the diving watchers made for the Italian Navy uh were equipped with movement from Angelus, uh long power reserve movement. So that's also collaboration that help developing the uh the awareness, the fame of the of the brand among uh among clients and uh and later uh collectors. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | How does it end up uh where it is today? |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Yeah so the the brand stopped uh production in the late seventies uh during the during the quartz crisis the quartz crisis |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | revolution now. The quartz revolution, |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | exactly. And the brand has been purchased by the by the manufacture Lajo Perret in twenty eleven. Actually, you had at the manufacturer one of the persons from the management that was an absolute passionate of Angelus Brand, a big collector. Right. And he decided to uh together with the management of the manufacturer to purchase the brand and relaunch the relaunch the brand. So 2011 is the purchase of the brand, but 2015 is the first year of the launch of the new uh timepiece from uh from Angelus. But this decision has been taken at that time uh only to work with uh tourbillon uh so they really wanted to work on the uh very innovative side of the brand only tourbillon with performance material so playing with titanium with carbon composite carbon fiber being very innovative on the and this was also um a window of the know-how of the manufacture uh at La Jupy. Of La Jou Perret, uh obviously. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | So at that time though the relaunch of Angelus watches, they were quite uh innovative, quite forward thinking, quite modern, right? |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Very much. Very much that's not how |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | uh the brand is today. No, the brand |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | today uh so in in 2020, when the new management for both brands came on board, I mean we first worked on Arnold Lenson to redevelop the collection, because I think the idea of the strategy was very was was very clear. On Angelus we needed to dip uh more into the brand to get a better understanding of what were really the roots of the brand because the the brand how it was relaunched in 2011, 2015 was very different from the history of the brand. And that's the moment we decided to come back with one of the iconic complications of the brand, which is the chronograph. So first with the chronodate, which is a modern version of the historical timepiece from 1942, which was the first chronograph featuring a date and after featuring a full calendar. So, in a case which is fully made of carbon composite and titanium, so we keep those DNA of the very innovative new Angelus that has been launched in uh 2015 but connecting back with one of the historical complications of the of the brand. So this was in 2022, Watches and Wonders when we launched this collection. And then 20223 is another milestone in the in the the relaunch of the brand with the introduction of the La Fabric Collection. So the idea of La Fabric Collection is beyond this very modern uh pillar that we have with the chronodate and the tourbillon, it's to uh come with redition of historical models. So either historical models that really existed, so like what we did in twenty twenty three with the doctor's watch, uh really directly inspired from the original nineteen sixty two medical chronograph. and |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | And what then quickly, you know, what what made the doctor's watch the you know which was the chronograph, what made it the doctor's watch? |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So many, many things. So first of all you had the pulsometer scale together with an atomometric scale. So to calculate the the rate of your of your breathing and the pulse. It was a mono pusher also which also had a function because the doctors have one hand to take the pulse, the other one to manipulate the chronograph. So easier if you have the start-stop result on the same pusher. Um so that was really the the the what was very special about this uh this timepiece the the the design of it with an outstanding legibility also of the pulsations and uh that was the first very successful launch of this of this collection, and the relaunch also uh within the brand of the calibre Angelus 5000 which is uh monopusher chronograph that has uh an outstanding uh an outstanding legacy because that's a chronograph that is owned by uh by our manufacturer but that has not been developed by Angelus or Manufactuar Juperet. It's a it's a kaliber that takes his heritage from a company called the THA and uh three very important yes uh famous uh famous uh watchmakers that has been afterwards uh modified because the original uh the original calibre was made for uh Cartier Tortu Mono Pusher by Mr. Journe, Flagolet and uh and Viani Halter. And uh So just |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | to be clear yeah, Viani Halter, uh Denisolet, um Abde Betun and Francois Paul Journal yes of of Fran of F. F. Journ. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So yeah, three living legends I would say of uh of of watchmaking. And after there's been other other variations of this of this monopusher made for for uh for some other brands and when those three gentlemen decided to split because each one was then in the late 90s creating its its own brand, its own uh own business under his brand name. Then the manufacturer acquired the blueprints and the right on this movement that has been also further improved by our manufacturer, and which is now uh made uh made by the uh with uh with the with uh with our manufacturer and that you have in the la fabric collection that you had in this medical chronograph that you had also in the following chapter in twenty twenty four which was the speed instrument instrument de Vitesse. So it was a one-minute chronograph with the tachymeter inspired by old GT cars, dashboards. So just to time the speed with the tachymeter and that we have also in the telemeter uh so the the chronograph uh that won the the t phd uh last year in uh in november twenty twenty five. And that was an outstanding uh recognition because as I explained to you, chronograph is really one of the key complications of the brand. So getting this award for a chronograph means so much for the Angeles team for the brand. So that's uh that's another milestone I would say in the in the history of the brand and the the relaunch of the brand. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | For sure. I mean it's a milestone for the relaunch of Angelus, but it's also a milestone for La Jupare and for the citizen group, the parent owner, because that is the first GPHG that um the group has won and it was Angelus. So it it was it was quite important. Uh am I right? Was it important? Do you think for you're |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | very right, uh Andy. It was important for the team here. For the manufacturer also uh that uh worked very very hard on the on this on this caliber on this timepiece with our teams and uh everyone also uh takes a lot of pride from this award also uh in uh in Japan with uh with the citizen group with our owners that uh yeah you, you're're right, that was a great reward for everyone uh within the within the group and uh working on the on the brand. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | It it's also interesting to me to think about and tell me when you got involved with the brand because it's interesting that, you know, the relaunch of Angelus was going in one direction, but it's really found, you know, success and recognition by sort of leaning into its heritage and its great history and producing watches perhaps that you know r uh um recall that history a little bit more. What does that tell us about about you know, relaunching and bringing back brands to re things. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So I I've been fortunate to join the the two brands in uh January twenty twenty one, so being part of the new team that has been put in place. I was at the very beginning uh the sales director for uh for both brands and it's in uh in May 2024 that uh I took the the helm of of uh of b bothoth uh brands um you know with the with angelus um we had on certain territories and especially in the us uh already built in almost 10 years a first community of clients, of new clients with those modern collections. And Angelus had really a very unique offering with a very innovative time pieces at very strong price point to give you an idea. Even nowadays we have skeletonized flying tourbillon with the carbon composite titanium case, three different straps with quick release system, limited modern very modern design with uh each one limited in 25 pieces, so very exclusive as well. Retailing for less than 50,000 Swiss francs. You have no offering on the market with this type of product at this price point. So that's definitely a clientele that we wanted to keep. And you cannot go from one day to the other from the modern angelus to the La Fabrique. You have also to create face to come to this to this La Fabrique and vintage timepieces collection. So that's that's why we had also the chrono date. And uh it's interesting to see that uh there's some markets where it's I would say 100% full speed on the uh Lafabric collection, but you have some markets where we have really uh a good mix of sales between the modern and the vintage and the vintage collection. So so our objective is not to leave behind all this modern DNA, but uh I think both can really be together and our objective also having those two collections was to connect the new customer of Angelus together with uh all these uh old collectors of vintage pieces from Angelus uh that uh were purchasing uh vintage uh chronodate, vintage t,inkler ch,ronographs, uh, and bring them to what is the brand nowadays through the Lafabric collection. That was really the the objective behind the our strategy. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | And what kind of price range are we talking for Angelus? And you know, can you talk about approximately how many watches you're making a year? |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So we are uh very exclusive uh because the relaunch at the end is very recent. So we have a production of around uh 300 pieces all limited we have less than 25 doors worldwide so also a very uh reduced uh network of clients. On the modern range, uh we have a starting price point around twenty three thousand uh Swiss francs for the chronodate in titanium and carbon composite which goes up to less than fifty thousand for uh the tourbillon skeletonized also in titanium and and carbon and then on the on the Lafabric everything is pretty much between 16,000 for the steel version up to 32,000 for the gold versions of our LaFabric uh products. So we are also positioned on the on the high end segment. We have uh small uh I mean limited production, almost all pieces in limited editions and numbers. And we end up, you know, working with many similar clients that we are working with for Arnold Lenson as |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | well. So you have synergies. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | There's no obligation, there's no politics that if you take one brand you have to take the other one. We we we give lots of freedom, but very often uh we start collaboration with someone with one of the two brands and uh they're happy of the collaboration, happy of working with us. Uh dynamism we bring behind the two brands and uh naturally very often the collaboration expends to the other brands as well. Yes. That's how it works. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | With the success that you had with the chronograph with the telemetre that won the GPH, which was, you know, I think you you said to me it would you you know you certainly weren't sure it was gonna win. It was a it was a very competitive category. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | So when that happens, |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | what do you do? Is there a reaction? I mean, how do you take advantage of that success? What should we expect, if anything, from that? Because they it was a limited edition, basically, quite small production and and they're all gone, uh pretty sure. So |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | it was uh it was interesting because the week following uh the reward there was Dubai Watch Week happening with a presentation of all the watches that have been awarded inside the show, literally in front of the Angelus booth. So it was great because we could see the enthusiasm of people looking at the timepiece, coming to our booth to really uh look and wear the timepiece. Almost all pieces were already delivered by then, but not all of them were already sold through, so that's uh that was definitely uh the opportunity for uh the retailers that still had some pieces to uh to sell them through, and it was an outstanding spotlight on the brand. That's very, very interesting. I have a nice anecdote about uh about that. When we we started Dubai Watch Week, of course we kept an international launch uh for Dubai Watch Week but with the with the the the craziness of uh GBHG etc I I completely uh forgot it |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | and then on the first day |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | of uh Dubai Watch Week. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | I see on Instagram and |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | etc. the launch of our new version of the skeletonized tourbillon. So you know the the supermodern tourbillon orange edition. So just the complete contrast of the brand versus the timepiece that won the GPHD just the week before. And it was amazing to see this contrast. I even wondered uh how how people would react because maybe they will be mainly coming to see us on the booth to see the uh the chronograph telemetre. But at the end, the that has been a very successful launch as well because customers really loved both pieces. So the same customer that maybe just a week before texted me on Instagram telling me congrats, I love the chronographed télemage so much so well deserved, etc. Just one week after uh send me a message wow, excellent, beautiful, I love this timepiece as well. And it was just the the the the proof that uh both universes can live together and even at the end appeal to the same customer. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | So I think what you're saying there though is that you know, we shouldn't necessarily expect more of the same. You know, uh the brand is what it is and it's and it has many different offerings, I guess. But I I I think, you know, yeah, I don't know. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | We we have uh definitely |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | uh plans to uh further grow the global collection of the brand. Uh when I mentioned uh to you at the beginning on the of the conversation of the historical complication of the brand, you see that there's a lot that we can bring back from our archives, and definitely our objective in the future, even in the very short term, will be to uh come as well with additional outstanding complications that uh made the uh the fame of the of the brands and that will further nourish uh as we did with the the chronograph so far and explain the the beautiful heritage of this brand to uh all uh |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | So that sounds like we might see um uh a repeater. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | It's it sounds it sounds that it could be a repeater coming soon. It sounds that it could be very |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | good. Well I I d I'm seeing you know, you have your your timeline for when you release things and indeed um uh we'll let you stick to it. You know, |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | let's you know, Arnold and Son |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | is a very different brand, uh than Angelus, but you had them both, and they're both here in the same uh building in manufacturer. Talk about what the Arnold and Son is today, what kind of watches you're making, what kind of price range you are, and then who your clientele is. I think you know, famously last year we saw Ed Sheeran wearing um one of your watches on the cover of uh of a magazine. So which was, you know, talk about what did that mean for the brand of anything and and uh and uh yeah, talk about |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | that was uh that was uh a grat surprise. And that was a grat present that he made uh to us. So Ed Shiran is literally a customer of the brand, a friend of the brand but customer of the brand. He he he is passionate about watchmaking. He's known as a very skilled uh collector. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Yes, for sure. And uh when he |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | had the opportunity to uh see this constant force to beyond that we were launching few months after. He said immediately, as a British collector, passionate about this watchmaking, I have to get this timepiece in my collection. And he he got his piece just before Watches and Wonders. And we've been surprised just uh just just before Watches and Wonders to see the issue of Forbes coming out and with Hiran wearing uh on the cover the patek and in the interview and the section inside the magazine uh twice this is uh is Constant Force Toubill |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Yes, right, sorry, yeah. I said he was on the cover. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | No, no. So nowadays with Arnold Enson we we pay tribute to the work of John Arnold. So we have three clear pillars in the collection. One is called astronomy, that's where we have our moon face complication. So the brand is very well known for unique design of moon phase complication when we speak about the perpetual moon, which has this huge display of the moon phase complication that takes half of the diol or the Luna Magna that was launched in 2021, which is the largest 3D rotating moon ever made into a wristwatch. Yeah, that's iconic designs. And it recalls the fact that before being driven by longitude, navigation was made with a with a with stars to calculate your latitude actually. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Yes. Second pillar |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | is the world time. That's where we have especially our globetrotter, which is our multi-time zone uh timepiece that we relaunched in 2025 with a new new design: a smaller case, improved movement, better legibility. So a lot of additional features on the movement, on the design side, on this timepiece. And this recalled the fact that marine chronometers from John Arnold equipped famous explorers like James Cook in 1772, uh during his second journey to the Pacific. And then we have the chronometry, which is the largest pillar, which obviously relates to the marine chronometers of John Arnold. So we have timepieces having a display or complication that are directly inspired from marine chronometers. So like the timepiece I'm wearing, for instance, we still which is the DSTB, dial side a true bit. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Yes. So true bit complication |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | comes from the marine chronometers. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Indeed, so I see this while in it uh the second's hand ticks along, but it's obviously a mechanical watch. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Yes, that's uh a jumping second that was made for marine chronometers to be able to send them properly and also to make the reading of the time easier to calculate the longitude and what's unique with this timepiece is that we place this complication on the top of the dial so it's not hidden at the back of the more of the of the movement. So we have uh different collections that show uh the heritage of the marine chronometers from John Arnold. And the Constant Force Taubillon that we launched last year is I would say almost another pillar that we are bringing for the future in the collection which are those heritage calibers. So it's really calibres directly inspired from uh specific heritage uh Arnold calibre that existed in the eighteenth century. So here it was inspired by the pocket watch from John Arnold offered to Abram Lee Breguet. that Mr Breguet modified after the death of John Arnold, incorporating his first ever tourbillon, and offering back this timepiece to the son of John Arnold as a an homage, a tribute to the collaboration and friendship with his father, and that's a piece which is a milestone of the history of watchmaking displayed at the British Museum in London. So that's all what we wanted to explain to show in releasing such an exceptional timepiece that was closing also the 2006 anniversary of uh John Arnold's uh heritage that started the year before. So |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | obviously we're talking you know quite ultralogy here, right? I mean, you know, this is expensive stuff. What is your price range uh at Arnold and Sun? And you know, we were talking earlier, obviously the price of gold continues to appreciate. What percentage of your pieces are in precious metals and and gold and and might we change that um considering how expensive it is. Yeah. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So uh uh our collection goes uh roughly from uh sixteen thousand Swiss francs and the as an entry price up to um I would say two hundred thousand. Okay, we have exceptional pieces, B spoke pieces also uh going up to half a million uh that uh that uh we we we are also doing uh with uh an average retail which is um which is around 40 45 000 uh swiss francs so uh quite uh high average uh retail price coming from the fact that it's not only the the complications that we put in our time pieces that uh give the values to the timepiece it's also a lot all the craftsmanship and all the work we put on our dials on the on our case because we have uh almost sixty percent of our time pieces in volume are made uh are crafted from precious metal. So does |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | that mean almost sixty percent of the your watches are gold? Gold or |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | platinum. Or platinum. Yes, yes. So very uh yes, so uh uh a significant percentage. So it's true that the price of gold is a is a concern. So that's still something that we we manage to uh uh to cope with uh with uh a very uh limited increase of our prices related to gold uh for the euro twenty twenty six. But uh when you |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | talk about I mean what what kind of can |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | you give percentage wise what kind of price increases? |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So we we applied a price increase between uh two and five percent really related to precious metal. So it's it remains very uh it remains very reasonable. Yeah. Uh and then sometime we had to had some uh increase related to exchange rate, but uh depending the currencies, but that's uh I would say another another topic as well. And another concern which is the strength of the of the Swiss francs with obviously all our cost uh in Swiss francs. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Well, yeah, let me put it to you this way. How much did you know did you raise prices last year? I mean the price of gold |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So last year we made no price increase related to precious metal. We made a different uh price list for the US due to the tariffs and the variation of the exchange rate with US dollar. So I think it's the year I made the most uh the highest number of price lists for a single country. And then we made uh price increase in September for uh euro price list of four percent. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Okay. And then I think if I'm understanding what you're telling me, and then you're gonna do a little further increase this year to reflect |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | April first. Yeah. April first to reflect precious |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | metals. Yes. We had no |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | price increase over the last uh five years uh except for uh sometimes uh currency fluctuations. So in in Swiss francs there were no price increase that has been made on the brand, I would say. Yeah. I would say that's uh the first price increase we are doing in Swiss francs related to gold. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | It's coming in April. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | And we really uh managed to keep it uh I would say as low as possible because we we could benefit of uh some uh reserves of uh gold that we of precious metal that we had. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Yeah, interesting. So you actually had some gold reserves, which is quite a handy and valuable thing at this time. How long can you though hang on uh without, you know, if gold continues to increase or or stay where it is, are you gonna, you know, think about the kind of materials you choose um for the watches um in the future and also though at the same time I think you with both brands you're exp I I think I'm right to say you're experiencing sales growth at least over the last year at a time when you know much |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | So I think we'll have to play |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | on both sides. other material than uh than gold or platinum uh to eventually craft some of our time pieces for Arnold and Son and Angelus, but still keeping the the value and the perception of our brand high. So that's things we we have already some projects for next year. Obviously, we are investigating also other options. The other point is that uh the experience of the tariffs in the US has demonstrated that uh our brand has a good uh price elasticity because it's been always considered as an outstanding value for money |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | versus competitors. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So in the example of the US, even when we increase prices due to tariffs and the loss of value of the US dollar against the Swiss francs, we manage to continue to increase our sales on the on the US market in a big way. I assume that uh the same elasticity on price could eventually apply on some uh gold products if in twenty seven the price of gold is still very high and we have to apply further price increase. So I think we'll have to consider both. And I think anyway a customer that wants a timepiece in gold and is wearing gold or is wearing platinum, he will be ready to pay the price and he knows that anyhow uh his timepiece is getting is getting more value with the price of gold. So I don't um uh probably the percentage of precious metal will lower a little bit in our assortment, but I don't see it going down |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | like by uh by cutting cutting by |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | half, you know. You're not gonna change things dramatically. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Um couple last things. Uh you know, it's |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | interesting. We we obviously were just talking with the head of uh La Jup Ploray, the movement maker, which is um basically we're here in the in the in the same location and it's basically as they've they've long owned both the brands or been associated with them. They've had a lot of growth in sort of entry-level movements, now solar quartz, at a completely different end of the market than uh you exist in. How should the market think about, you know your reputation and your products is very high-end, complicated movements in um, you know, uh pricey but value for money watches at the same time as part of a mass movement maker. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | You're you're right, Handy, saying that we always hear on all reports and that's also something that I experience with uh with my uh sales statistics and meeting the customer, it's the high-end segment that has been driving the sales in uh 24 and 25. That's uh that's clear. I could even put a threshold around 50,000. For me, it's really above 50,000 retail that things has been uh has been really extremely dynamic. I see in 25 uh we sold more of the high-end products and maybe a bit less of our entry price level product uh on uh Arnold Benson at least I would uh I would say on the other hand it's interesting to hear at uh what uh Jean-Claude Hegan is is saying for the manufacturer because we see also lots of brands having uh great success on much lower price points. So you see that market under one thousand is also very dynamic. You have uh brand names that uh can sure will come to your mind. Some of them have been awarded at the That are super dynamic and that are showing that with the right product, with the right story, you can make it a success on this price category. And I see very often some customers that purchase a timepiece of sixty thousand but also are happy sometime to purchase the just for the weekend as a as a leisure uh timepiece, a bit like the positioning that Swatch used to have in the past, you know to please themselves with uh with a timepiece that will kost maybe uh 400, 500, 600 Swiss francs. Okay, so that's much higher than the than the uh than than a swatch, but we are finally at the end not so far from some of their latest uh release indeed, some of the |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | swatches 400 francs, some of them. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | So I think you can uh we have also examples of brand that uh has been very successful on uh different uh different price category. I have all the also other brands that made uh an outstanding comeback uh on the price category between around two three four thousand when I hear also uh some of our sister brands from like uh like uh Frederic Constant, uh they are uh having a good performance uh in uh in a challenging environment. So everyone can get uh some uh some wins, uh whatever the the category of product they are, but it's true that uh from what I know uh on Arnold Denson and Angelus the. The high end uh has been uh has been really pushing. I think also many retailers uh since now uh I would say uh three years looking at uh at the niche brand as uh uh also uh a great alternative for some maybe uh high and mainstream brands that they lost. Right. Uh it also uh goes with the evolution of the market with a lot of collectors that are interested in something which is more exclusive and they don't want to be the one wearing the same type piece as all the other people around the table. They want something unique with the special story with nice craftsmanship. And here we speak about the movement, but we speak a lot also about uh the dial about uh design of the of the timepiece coming with uh special stones uh innovative uh material and uh that has been also very much one of our focus on Arnold Denson. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Of course, we we we take, |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | I mean uh the the calibre should be super high end with a nice complication, a unique design. But on top |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | you have uh all what's around |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | the movement that uh also uh is a significant part of the value of the timepiece. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Indeed, yeah. Th'eres lots of crapftsmanshi and uh different métiers d'art that go into a peace other than the movement uh which is just part of it. Last thing. So yeah, we're in uh mid-March, I guess. There's a war in the Middle East currently Currencies continue to fluctuate, we see more inflationary pressures, things like that. How do you, in a year like that, how do you plan for the rest of your year with so much uncertainty I mean what do you do in terms of setting a strategy for the year with all those uncertain factors? |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Uncertainty, especially also in 2025, when we had those tariffs that uh that has been a hit in the middle of Watches and Wonders. So we must remain uh very agile. My first point is uh yeah the Middle East is uh is an important market for our brands. We hope that it will uh it will not last. Uh we hope that the change will be for the for the good as well. |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Have you made any significant changes or is anything really shifted or or |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | we are we are starting to work on scenarios to see uh if things are still in place in the in the next weeks at Watches and Wonders or for the first semester, what will be the impact and how how we should handle this additional heat on on our business and keep being able to to develop our brands. And of course we we have to do |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | our planning as well, |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | expecting the worst won't happen |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | Indeed. Very good, Pascal. We will leave it there. But thank you for joining us on the business of watches. |
| Pascal Bechu (CEO of Arnold & Son and Angelus) | Thank you very much, Andy. Thank you for your time. It was a pleasure to share with you our manufacturer and thank you for giving us the opportunity to disclose more of our two brands to your audience |
| Andy (Host/Interviewer) | and that's the business of watches for this episode. We hope you enjoyed. Please head on over to hodinky.com where you can join the discussion and leave any comments or questions about this episode or the business of watches in general. Who knows? We might even answer your question on a future episode. Thanks for listening and see you next time. |