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Is Baselworld Dead?

Published on Tue, 14 Apr 2020 17:10:11 +0000

A look a what Rolex, Tudor, Patek Philippe, Chanel, and Chopard leaving the industry's oldest show might mean for the watch world at large.

Synopsis

This emergency episode of Hodinkee Radio responds to breaking news that Rolex, Tudor, Patek Philippe, Chopard, and Chanel are leaving Baselworld to create a new watch show with the FHH starting in April 2021. The Hodinkee editorial team—Stephen Pulvirent, Ben Clymer, James Stacey, and Jack Forster—convenes via Zoom to discuss the immediate implications of this stunning announcement.

The group emphasizes how unprecedented this move is, particularly Rolex's role in leading the initiative and communicating on behalf of other brands—behavior completely out of character for the famously secretive company. They trace the breadcrumb trail leading to this moment, including delayed product launches, public criticism from Swiss watch industry leaders, and deteriorating relationships between brands and the MCH Group that organizes Baselworld. The consensus is that while Baselworld may technically survive, it will never be the same, having lost its most important exhibitors. The team reflects nostalgically on what made Baselworld special—the adrenaline, the chance encounters, the social atmosphere—while acknowledging this represents a fundamental shift toward industry unity during the COVID-19 pandemic. They note consumers won't see new releases from these major brands until April 2021, and speculate about whether other groups like LVMH and Swatch might join this consolidated show, potentially recreating something even bigger than the original Baselworld.

Transcript

Speaker
Ben Clymer Look, I mean Basel is over at this point.
James Stacey It's a bit of musical chairs happening. You know, and and I think today today Rolex got up and kind of walked out of the group and lifted the needle off the record and said like hey guess what
Stephen Pulvirent ? Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is a special bonus episode of Hodinky Radio. Uh you may or may not have seen, but this morning news broke that Rolex, Tudor, Patek Philippe, Shopard, and Chanel are leaving Basel World. Uh these five major brands are gonna be setting up their own new watch show with the FHH. It'll start in April 2021. Uh, and this is absolutely massive news. Uh everybody's first question, I think, is is Basel World dead? Uh is this the end of Basel World? Um so I thought I would grab Ben, James, and Jack on a quick Zoom call. Uh so we could talk through the news. Uh this just landed in our inbox a couple hours ago. We've got a story up on the site, but uh thought it was important to get our our first impressions out there and we're gonna have tons of reporting as this develops. So without further ado, let's do it Hey team, how are you guys doing? Alright. Yeah. I love the thumbs up and uh that that this is good for audio medium and we get a yeah, it's great. It's perfect. You're you're you're a pro at this. Uh we woke up this morning to some pretty pretty wild news, so I wanted to uh hop on a call with you guys real quick so we could talk through it and get our our first reactions. Um we started having a conversation in in our company Slack this morning relatively early because Rolex, Patek Philippe, Chanel, Chopard, and Tudor uh have jointly announced that they are leaving Basel World and starting a brand new watch show with the FHH in 2021. Yeah, that's uh it's not what I expected to
Ben Clymer wake up to the thing for sure. I mean it it's really it it's so seldom. So a little backstory. So I received a note from Rolex Geneva about this from their their publicity team over there. And it's it's so rare honestly to hear from them at all. You know, usually we hear from Rolex USA or you know, some subsidiary, et cetera. Um so to get a note from Rolex Geneva is is highly unusual even for us. Uh and then I think beyond that you open it up and you say, Okay, not only is Rolex leaving, but they're actually communicating on behalf of Patek Philippe, which is you know, goes without saying is Patek Philippe. Chopard, uh, who else? Chanel, uh and then of course Tudor. You know, it's just the idea that like Rolex is doing anything with anyone is kind of the craziest thing about this. So the fact that they would like even they would even like engage in conversations with other brands uh is is something that frankly I don't think I've ever even heard of them doing uh in in in any way really
Stephen Pulvirent yeah I totally agree. It's uh it's very, very weird to see that. Uh I do think it's telling that uh things are, you know, in some cases alphabetical and in most cases Rolex goes first. Um which which is is always an interesting thing to
Ben Clymer see. But uh Yeah and I think even you know as as Joe T pointed out to us in Slack, you know, if you read the note carefully, Carl Frederick from Chopart says, you know, this is the Rolex initiative. So it's clear that, you know, whether they initiated it or not, you know, it it it is now kind of deemed the Rolex initiative, and you know, they put that in print. Uh so it it it's clear that that they're kind of leading the the the charge here, I would say.
Jack Forster Yeah, I have to admit it was I mean it was a I think an enormous surprise for all of us initially, but perhaps not that surprising um given how rapidly the relationship between the MCH group and a lot of the major participating brands have gone downhill over the last couple of years. You know, we saw SWATS group leave, um, you know, the entire group. And uh I have to say though, there was such a there it felt like there was an awfully strong emotional commitment to um keeping the show going on some level from precisely the brands that have now just decamped on you know on NAS to um
Ben Clymer uh to another location. Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's shocking. It it really is. I mean also just the fact that like we're getting this news in the middle of a pandemic. You know, the there are so many things that we're experiencing now, all of us, you know, globally, that like we just couldn't have fathomed. Like maybe two months ago. You know, I mean it's just thing like times are are so bizarre and they're getting crazier. Uh and I think, you know, as as we you know, I think you know, astutely put in in the the the story that we put up, most people don't care about this. You know, most people in the even in the watch world don't really care how the watches come out. All we know now is that, you know, you know, barring Rolex and Patdock releasing something mid year, which they don't normally do, we're not gonna see any new releases until a year from right now, which I think is kind of to the core of our audience, that's probably the biggest news. You know, that we won't see a new Daytona or a new GMT or new whatever until April 2021
Jack Forster . I think for consumers, one of the most important um outcomes for this for this story. Um, you know, if you're interested in watches and uh you were excited to see some new stuff you're gonna have to wait
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah, I think one of the interesting things to me is that the looking back, like you can see a breadcrumb trail, but you couldn't I don't think you could have anticipated it, right? Like there was the news that paddock uh they announced first and then rolex and tutor announced that they were delaying launches indefinitely they didn't put time limits on it but not launching anything right now then you get this note from uh uber deplex toy you know the in t basically the entire governing board of Swiss watchmaking, a bunch of different organizations saying that he's upset uh with how the organizers of Basel World and the town of Basel handled everything. Uh and he's on the Rolex board. Uh and you never hear of anyone from Rolex speaking as individuals. And granted, he has other posts and he was speaking as a representative of those organizations, but still just to hear somebody from Rolex speak out publicly and say that they they were unhappy about something, uh, in hindsight feels like it definitely was was leading up to this. Like this makes sense in that context as as John said in in the story this mor.ning Yeah, I mean a as you just said, Stephen, it
Ben Clymer 's just like Rolex does not communicate at all. And I think, you know, as as I said in my story for you know when I went inside Rolex five or six years ago, it's just like every other brand is shouting from the rooftops about the the you know a new dial color and Rolex doesn't even tell people that they completely changed the, you know, basically like core functionality of the forty one forty one thirty caliber when they did so in the Daytona. So the fact that they're coming out and talking about this, it really tells you how bad it it it must have been, I I would say. Or it's new Rolex, which is also possible
Jack Forster . Yeah, I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for the uh um you know for the decisive meetings with uh MCH group. I can't imagine that it was a warm fuzzy experience
Ben Clymer . You know, I again, we we know we know the MCH group, they you know they're doing everything they can. They're they're in a really tough spot, you know, they they they really are. But you know, I I I I've heard that you know they they made and you know they it's referenced in this note that like a lot of these massive decisions such as you know moving Basel to April in the first place for for twenty twenty was made without communicating to Rolex, PatTech and LBMH. You know, and uh those are those are three pretty important people uh in to to the to the world of watches and certainly the Basel world. And I mean that would be I mean I can't even you know that would be like NFL moving the Super Bowl without telling the teams. You know what I mean? Like you just like you just can't do that. Ye
Stephen Pulvirent ah. I mean James you you tend to cover things more from the product side and I wonder you know you've you've been going to Basel World for years and years and how have you seen it kind of change over the last couple of years leading up to this kind of massive change
James Stacey ? The the funny thing is is I think this is a like a a a a confluence of of several different events, but like from that from that one standpoint, uh leading up over the last two years there was always kind of an annual question that got a little bit warmer every year, like what what what is going on here? How does this relate to SIHH? And then when there when we started to see more expansion of the Watches and Wonders kind of brand into other shows, then suddenly there weren't two shows. There was four or or five, depending on how you looked at it. And and and I think I think it kind of expanded at a time that ended up being very poor for this year. And and one of the outcomes here is that a few brands have had to essentially put their foot down and say like, nope, we have things to protect and we don't feel like everybody's on the same page here. Uh from from a a watch journalist coverage sort of standpoint, like obviously we we were gonna lose this year's shows either way. That that doesn't come down to this decision in an in any metric at all. But for next year, uh i if in anything it's condensed, which theoretically should make for a pretty strong uh a show. Certainly a different sort of flow than we're used to previously with uh January March kind of existence, but we were already moving to April anyway. So I'm not sure that there's a as big a lift. I mean that the real the real downfall here is for Basel and Basel world. Yeah I
Ben Clymer agree. I I think the the economy of Basel, Switzerland will will forever be changed be because of this, no no question about it. I mean th this is m this is Mardi Gras. This is you know, this is any major event that like effectively lifts up an entire town. You know, Basel has industry and it's very big in pharmaceuticals, et cetera. But I mean, this is a massive, massive event for that town
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah, it'll be interesting to me to see how all of the hospitality stuff, I mean, this is like super inside baseball, but there's been all these reports about, you know, hotels not giving refunds and charging people to rebook. Now with this changing, it'll be interesting to see all the the Rolex paddock retailers who moved their appointments to January now canceling. Uh it'll be interesting to see kind of a whether the town tries to like make some uh goodwill moves or whether they just like take every dollar they can get and say, like off off you go. Look, I mean B
Ben Clymer asel is over at this point. You know, I mean the the show is over. You you know know,. I mean even if Swatch decided to come back, which I don't think they would uh at this point, you know, it's just without the without the two core brands and you know, inevitably, you know, we don't know when, but I mean LBMH has always done stuff around SIHH, so it won't even be that big of a deal if they just did their own show around the same time. It you know, th things are things are changed forever. There's no question about it. And I think what'll be really interesting to see down the road, you know, when it comes time to April of 2021 is how things are are kind of timed and and scaled there because you know the the the big boys of the SIHH are now kind of like the little guys. And I think that that'll be an interesting position for let's say a Cartier who we all love and adore, but like in the grand scheme of things in the watch world paddock and role it's are are s you know significantly more meaningful commercially and editorially et cetera to to most watch folks than than say a Cartier or an AP or anything like that. So I wonder, you know how how they'll kind of view things and how the kind of how they'll work together to make sure that that kind of you know everyone's uh everyone is covered the right way. Because it's gonna be I mean from our side it's gonna be really overwhelming to have all the brands, including the two big ones now uh launching uh at the same time. And then of course if you have LBMH and SWATS come in at the same time, I mean this could just be this could be a mess. You know, this could be a lot of stuff at once
Stephen Pulvirent . It's basically gonna be Basel World. It's gonna be more Basel World than Basel World. Right? So like in ninety-one is when Cartier and a couple other brands, you know, Bomba Mercier, Genta, Daniel Roth, a couple others, uh splintered off and created the SIHH. And the idea was to get away from Basel, do something more exclusive, do something where they could be the focus. Uh and then we've seen it kind of like it fragmented into two shows. It became you're either in camp A or Camp B. Then the independence started doing both shows, then Swatch group split off. It's been like this weird, like it really kind of like m fanned out. And like James said it's now all collapsing in again and musical chairs happening. Yeah.
James Stacey And I think today today Rolex got up and kind of walked out of the group and lifted the needle off the record and said, like, hey, guess what? Like
Stephen Pulvirent Yeah. Yeah. Uh I th I think to me the one of the things that I don't want to get lost here is that they're the five brands are doing this with the FHH, which is the body that puts on SIHH. So, like, this isn't like what LVMH has done in the past where they say, like, we're gonna do an event at the same time. It's essentially a competitor, it's in a different part of Geneva. Like, we're gonna invite you to stuff that competes directly with stuff at SIHH and it becomes sort of like they they make everybody choose. This in theory is being done in a way that's sort of simpatico with with the SI or what with Watches and Wonders G
Ben Clymer eneva. Yeah, and I I think it's really nice. I mean I think, you know, as a as an ex-jury member uh of the Grand Prix uh de Her Lagerie de Genève, like, you know, you always wonder like where are these guys? You know, where where is Rolex and Paddock in this? Okay, Tudor might, you know, be in there every now and then. You get Langa, you know, one one out of every three years, you get Vashron every now and then, A P every now and then. But like where where is everybody? Why isn't everybody kinda like in this together? And this f to me feels like we're we're all kinda in it together for the for the first time in my career in this industry, at least more so than before. And I think it's amazing as as you said, Stephen, that they're doing this with the FHH. Because I I I frankly never would have expected it. I mean Rolex is not a member of the FHH, right? I mean neither is the tech fleet., uh for that matter They just don't they don't play that game. Um so you know I don't I don't know that'll change over over you know the next few months, few years. But I mean just the fact that they're engaging at all with the kind of other folks in Switzerland, I think says a lot. And I think if you read Dufour's note in that uh email that they sent out or the the PDF they sent out, you know, it's about protecting all of their uh initiatives together, you know, protecting what they have and that is Swiss watchmen, not just Rolex and not just paddock, etc.
Jack Forster And can I ask you, uh so is your takeaway from all of this um that this is categorically not surviv
Ben Clymer able for Basel World? I think you I think it's gonna be tough. I think you know I I I think Basel World will continue but in in a in a you know handicapped manner. Um I look I don't know. I mean I think if if the hikes come back, if Swatch comes back, if L VMH stays, you know, look these are massive brands. I mean, like, you know, it it all depends on on what what everyone wants to to do here. I mean, like, to be clear, LVMH is a larger company than than Rolex and Paddock combined. You know, not their watch and jewelry division, but the company itself is. So if they wanted to get really involved and make something big happen there, they could. You know, SWATS is also a massive company. I think it's bigger than Rolex by revenue if you combine all brands. In fact, it must be because Omega is number two. You know, I mean, these are these are massive brands. You know, I think from the community perspective, everyone thinks of Rolits and Patdock, but like there are there are brands, there are businesses that are bigger than that. And I think when you talk about influence, I think that there could be a salvageable, you know, kind of way way forward here for for Basel. But no matter what, I mean you're you're gonna lose that that great buzz of you know, seeing the Rolexes first and the paddocks first. And just as an enthusiast, that that's a big part of it for for me and I think for for you guys too.
Jack Forster Yeah, but you make an excellent point, which is this uh it it looks catastrophic uh at first and and second even third glance for Basel World, but it also does uh create uh kind of an enormous opportunity for Swatch Group and L VMH group if they want to choose to explore that
Stephen Pulvirent . To me, the great variable here is would one of those two groups want to make this a really unifying thing and also do something in April and Geneva in a way that's that's compatible as opposed to competitive? Like if Swatch Group came back in and said, like o,kay, you know what? We're we're gonna host our own thing, but we're gonna do it either immediately before or immediately after. We're not gonna compete, like, we want to make this about industry solidarity. You can in theory have almost everyone showing at the same time like it was back in in pre ninety one. Like you could have Omega, Rolex, Paddock, Cartier, IWC all showing at the same time. Yeah.
Ben Clymer Yeah. And I I think I don't think that would be a bad thing. I mean, I think it would be slightly overwhelming unless there was some sort of like you know coordination and timing. Um, but I don't think that'd be a bad thing. I think also like we're still going to see this scattered releases over the years. We've seen it more and more over time where it's like, okay, SIHH and Basel are so crazy. And if you're not Rolex, Paddock, Omega, Vashron, AP, like one of the top five brands, like you're just gonna get lost anyway. So if you hold that for a week later and you've got trade press like us and and you know monochrome and fratello and revolution, all those guys, like you're gonna be on the front page of all those sites that one day that you launch the new product. You know, so I think like if they do, you know, X percent of their product at at this April, you know, event in twenty twenty one and then Y percent, you know, over the remainder of the year, I think it it would make sense for sure. But I do think there's real value in in holding a global meeting of some kind. And I think you know so many people have said, oh well, like who cares? Like you know, I'd rather just have to watch this here in New York and and do it here. But and I understand that, like from photography, from you know, logistics point of view, from you know, cost of travel, it makes sense. But what you miss out on is like all the the opportunities that come from seeing everyone else, you know, seeing Mike Tay from Singapore, seeing Jean-Claude Beaver from uh you know from Switzerland and like seeing all these people that like just wouldn't you know kind of congregate in in in each you know smaller market
Stephen Pulvirent . I think that's a really good point. And and I I wonder to get you know a bit nostalgic for a minute. We we're we're saying Basel World isn't necessarily dead yet, so I don't I don't want to make this too uh I want to position this right, but like Basel World as we're not necessarily it's not necessarily dead, but it's not what they call strong martyrs dead as we It's not dead close, you know? Yeah. It's uh it's dead as we know it, right? So uh and forever however right and however we choose to cover it in the future, it'll be different. You know, we're probably not going to be rolling into a future Basel World 2021 or 2025 or whatever, uh, you know, fifteen people deep for eight days, you know, it's gonna be a different thing. So I wonder what what the thing is that each of you will miss the most about the old Basel World. It could be last year, it could be how it was 10 years ago, but what's kind of the the Basel World thing you guys will miss the most? Maybe we'll start with James
James Stacey . I mean for me, uh w with the exception of maybe now in New York, since I've I've gotten closer to the Hodinky staff, like Basel was the town outside of where I grew up, where I'd spent the most time inner like otherwise. Like over the years, if you stack it all up, like that was kind of like a third home or a fourth home. It was a town I kind of already knew. I felt like I already had my footing on that, and you'll be starting all over again in 2021 with kind of a new thing, uh new setup. Who knows, you know, the the the the ins and outs of the Airbnb or hotel market will change all of a sudden and all of those things that are kind of like um not have to be like big mental stressors will become something new again. It'll kind of change the tone and the pace of uh of the show for next year, even just from uh a uh an element entirely ancillary to the actual shows. Yeah. Jack,
Jack Forster how about you? I think more than anything else, what I'm going to miss about uh the way it was was just the sheer adrenaline rush of being there. You know, I mean uh what when I started covering watches, SIHH had already, you know, for for several years been a separate show. And it that felt like this really, really wonderful, sort of well-mannered, high-touch, uh, straight-up luxury um, you know, kind of event. And it felt like a really nice kind of prelude to the main event, which was always Basel World and you know, the just the sheer adrenaline rush that you would get walking in, you know, day one of presti and saying to yourself, I am going to see some stuff today that matters to everybody, you know, um I'm I'm gonna miss it. Ye
Ben Clymer ah. Ben, how about you? Yeah, I mean I I I agree with both James and and Jack in different ways. Like, you know, on on Jack's side, it's like you know, I I'm a pretty laid back person, but like on on Basel World days, like I'm fucking amped. I'm like, let' lets' gos crush this thing, you
Stephen Pulvirent know? I can I can attest to that. Ben is Ben is pretty hype on uh Baal.
Ben Clymer I mean look it it's it's it's you know I I talk about this often, but there's so few moments for like the watch world and Houdinky in particular and you know in my context, you know, have the opportunity to cross into the mainstream and like, you know, make a statement to the world. And Basel World every year is one of those times. You know, CNN is there, BBC is there, you know, global news outlets are there. We're often quoted and cited in those sources. You know, so it's exciting for for us as these these po these folks that are telling the story to the world to have even more eyes on us. You know, so I I really get excited, you know, the adrenaline, as Jack said, as an enthusiast, look, I I love Rolex and Paddock and Tag and Omega and everyone as much as anybody else. And like to see that that new stuff first through the window or you know in one of those early meetings is is really exciting. And then beyond that, as I said, like I'm gonna miss the hang. The hang is super fun, you know, and it's that's like you know, whether it's it's Way or Christian Hagen or the Warner Wow guys who are you know five miles away from us, but we never see. Uh, you know, you know, all these guys that you really only see, you know, a handful of times a year in a setting that is completely neutral, uh, I think is is really fun. And, you know in a lost tape of Hodinky Radio, Christian Hagen, you know, gave some some crazy stories last year, you know, just because I ran into him on the walk home. James is chuckling 'cause it was actually like a really gross story that he told. Um Yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's staying that's staying deep in the archive. Yeah. But yeah, the the social aspect of it and also as I said, the opportunity. You know, I can't tell you how many things for Hodinki's sake that that have come out of being at Basel and meeting people from the FHH or the the folks behind the Grand Prix or, you know, journalists at at international publications, that that that part will will certainly be missed. Again, we're not saying we're not gonna be there ever again. So like that that can all still happen. It'll just have a really different feeling overall.
Stephen Pulvirent Yeah. Yeah, I think I think for me it's the chance encounters that happen at Basel World that don't happen at a more structured show like SIHH. Like SIHH, it's much more you're scheduled out, it's appointments, everything is very genteel, it's invite-on, like it's just more structured. Uh whereas Basel World, like you can wander around and like find weird stuff and meet strange, interesting people, and end up with these like like Ben said, the hang. Like you end up with weird groups of people from across the industry. Uh and you know, just chance chance encounters. Like I remember, you know, walking by the Acrivia booth a couple years ago. I'm sure I've told the story before, but like and seeing Philippe Dufour walk out and be like, Maybe maybe I should go check that out, you know? Yeah, totally and then meeting Reg and like becoming friends with him and really appreciating those watches now and you know, like that's that kind of stuff I think only happens at at Basel World really
Ben Clymer . I agree. I mean the the city is just set up for it. You know, and I think like you know you you're talking about Reg Up like you know I have similar memories with uh the Gronfeld dudes, you know, Bart and Tim. It's like early, early on be,fore we ever work with them or anything, you know, on our limited edition, like you know, I think it was Robert Yan uh from Fratello was like, Hey, you should meet these guys and do four was in the booth. And then, you know, after seeing the washes, I'm like, Wow, these are these are crazy things. They're like, You wanna go have a beer? And I was like, sure, like I got I got nothing going on, you know. Uh and then like, you know, I probably had three, they probably had thirteen. Uh and then like, you know, it was just like, you know, a crazy night, and then I'm I'm sure like, you know, Roger Smith showed up and then like the Bremont guys showed up. And it's just like that that that aspect of it which is you know it's almost like it's like college you know it's just like oh like come on you know come on Roger Smith like have a have a drink with us you know uh and it's it's just a really jovial fun environment that SHH just does not provide. Um you know at least in the same way. Just because Basel has all these little restaurants and bars right outside the fair where like you're gonna see people
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah. Alright, the last thing I want to ask you guys before before we go is what do you think coming out of this this means for the industry as a whole? Like this this I think is a bellwether of something. I'm just not exactly sure what. Um do you guys have any thoughts on kind of like what this can tell us about the the big, big picture right now?
Jack Forster I mean I don't know that it's necessarily going to change anything fundamentally fundamentally on the industry side. Um I mean certainly I think it's opened up a lot of brand's eyes to the you know to the sort of greater possibilities um that exist in terms of doing things differently, developing their own communications practices outside the trade shows, developing their own product launch schedules outside the trade shows. I don't know whether it's going to create any really sort of like you know basic changes in the way the industry operates
James Stacey . Um I you know I think I think a lot of what we're seeing this year is is is uh uh it would be the kind of thing where I don't think you'd want to make law based on this case. Um I think that they're adjusting to do their very best and by I think coming together, especially with some big dogs coming in, I think that's a a really wise decision. I think that's absolutely a positive move for the industry as a whole. But I think I
Ben Clymer This is this is a reflection of what is going on in the world right now. And you know, if if you if you listen to this podcast, you know, years from now or even six months from now, this is what, April 14th, 2020, like we are in the thick of you know, the greatest pandemic in certainly of my lifetime for sure. Um I think for for most of ours. And I think, you know, th this is all a product of of macroeconomic uh trends. This is this is not something that you know, I think there's a lot of sub brewing for a long time, but I am confident in saying this would not have occurred without what is going on with COVID-19. And I think at the end of the day, you know, based on what Jean-Fredufour and Thierry, Thierry Stern said in the in the PDF they sent out, you know, this is a time of unity. And I, you know, to see, as I said in the the beginning of call, like or podcast, whatever this is, hint we're actually on a phone call right now. Um you know, uh I bet you guys didn't know that. Um you know, the the idea that Rolex would even put their name next to, you know for forget Patek Philippe but like Chopart and Chanel. I mean these are just different brands. You know Rolex doesn't play that game. Most most brands don't play that game. And so all of a sudden you're having real unity here, which I think is is really nice. And like, you know, you forget that Jean Fred Dufour used to work at Show Park. You know, after that he was at Zenith, I believe. Um, you know, so it's like everyone is interconnected. So it's really nice to see this small industry kind of coming together and and uh unifying
Stephen Pulvirent it. Yeah. I think that's spot on. I mean I, I think for me the the thing I'm hoping to see come out of this is that this is a sign that everybody's kind of realized that, you know, times times were good and when times were good it was easy for everybody to get a little like nitpicky and want to do their own thing and want to have absolute control and whatever, but that everyone's realizing that ultimately standing together and acknowledging that like making watches a bigger thing as an idea benefits everyone and that it's much easier and better and more effective to do that together than separately. Uh I'm I'm hoping that's the direction things move in over over the next couple of years. Yeah. It's all we can hope for. Yeah. All right. Well, uh thanks for thanks for chatting with me about this, guys. I thought it'd be good to get some of our first reactions. I'm sure over the coming days we'll we'll learn more. I'm sure we'll see some other brands react to this. I can't imagine that this is the end of the news here. But uh it's nice that we can get our our first responses. We're literally like what, like three hours from this landing in our inboxes uh to now. So we'll get this out there, have a little document so that we can all look back later and think how dumb we were and uh have much better have much better takes down down the road. Absolutely. Thank you Steve. Thanks guys. Great to see you guys. This bonus episode of Hodinki Radio was recorded remotely by our team of editors and was produced by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show, it really does make a difference for us. Thanks for listening and we'll see you Monday at our usual time.