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The Grey NATO, Ep 66: We're Back!

Published on Thu, 18 Oct 2018 10:00:00 +0000

BONUS EPISODE! Today we're proud to bring you the latest episode of The Grey NATO — the newest member of the HODINKEE podcast family. Hosted by HODINKEE contributors James Stacey and Jason Heaton, TGN is a "loose conversation of travel, adventure, diving, gear and most certainly watches." If you like what you hear, subscribe to The Grey NATO wherever you get your podcasts. Every other week, Jason and James will break down their love for adventure, their addiction to watches, and the many forms both can take. Enjoy!

Synopsis

This podcast episode covers day two of SIHH (Salon International de la Haute Horlogerie) 2019 in Geneva. The hosts discuss their experiences visiting various watchmakers, with a particular focus on independent brands and smaller manufacturers. They explore releases from Panerai, including limited edition watches tied to Arctic explorer Mike Horn and other experiential offerings. The group examines pieces from H. Moser & Cie, MB&F, Grube Forsey, Ressence, and Richard Mille, with particular attention to Richard Mille's controversial "Bonbon Collection" featuring candy-themed dials. They also discuss Laurent Ferrier and Roman Gauthier's latest offerings.

The episode features an interview conducted by Joe Thompson with Catherine Rénier, the CEO of Jaeger-LeCoultre, who discusses her background in luxury goods, her vision for the brand, and the new Gyro Tourbillon Westminster Perpetual. The hosts conclude with extensive discussion of Cartier's annual presentation, praising their accessible entry-level quartz Santos-Dumont watches as well as their higher-end mechanical pieces, including a new Santos chronograph and the Privé collection. Throughout the episode, the hosts debate the philosophical implications of various design choices and the state of modern watchmaking, balancing accessibility with traditional haute horlogerie values.

Transcript

Speaker
Unknown All right, we're back. It's day two of SIHH twenty nineteen. Uh we're just finishing things up here at the Pal Expo Center before we go back and get some uh some great stories put together for you tonight. But uh I was able to get our esteemed editor-in-chief, Jack Forrester, uh, along with John and James. Uh they're both back. Uh, and we're gonna talk you through our our day here at the show. Um yesterday we kind of focused on on the bigger brands, you know, Longenzona, uh, AP, those kinds of things. Uh today was really mostly about independence and and some of the funkier uh watchmakers like Richard Meal and Gruble Forzi, along with MBNF and Urwork and Resents and those kinds of guys. So we're gonna talk you through those watches and then we're gonna take a little break in the middle and throw to an interview that Joe Thompson did with JLC CEO Catherine Renier. It's a super interesting conversation. We were able to record it and uh we want to play that for you here. Um and then once we're done with that, we're gonna hop back in, uh, talk about Cartier's uh annual big presentation. Um, a couple of us went, and there's a lot to learn there. Uh, and then we'll give you a little bit of a preview of what to expect tomorrow in our final wrap-up episode from the show. All right, so that's the lineup. We've got a great show for you, and uh let's take it away. So I'd say it's good to see you guys again, but uh to be honest, we've spent probably uh I don't know what like going on like 72 hours here straight straight with each other. I got John, James, and and Jack sitting around this table plus our our wonderful producer uh Gray. So uh I guess still good to see you guys. Not again. But still it's starting to wear thin for sure. Oh oh okay. Is it interesting? Tell us how you really feel, Jack. Yeah, now everyone knows how Jack feels about us. Um cool. So uh it's the end of day two of SIHH. We're uh we're wrapping things up here uh at the end of our second day. And you know, the first day, if if you didn't listen to yesterday's podcast, I highly recommend you go back and listen to it. Yesterday we we focused on kind of the larger brands, the autumnar p gays, uh long and zonas, uh of of the world. Uh today was more about the independence and the little guys and then the biggest brand of all. We we right before this went to Cartier's uh big annual presentation. So the biggest brand of all I like that oh man from off mic. So we're gonna get into all of that. And we we also have something a little special for you, um which we mentioned we're going to throw in the middle of this to an interview that Joe did um with Catherine Rainier, who is the CEO of JL C. It's a super interesting interview. So we're gonna we're gonna cut to that for a little bit in the middle here uh and then come back and and wrap things up. Not the uh she's and she's she's the global CEO. The global CEO, correct. She's the the boss of the whole show. She is the big big boss. The capo de capo. Um cool. So let's start off. Uh what did you guys see today? Um well uh actually I think John and I uh experienced the firmest handshake that we have ever experienced in our lives. Uh we were at our Panorama meeting this morning and they're working with uh Arctic Explorer Mike Horn, who is famous for having completed a solo three month, twelve thousand mile circumnavigation of the Arctic Circle and man, he's got the handshake to prove it. Yeah, seriously. He almost took me down with his handshake. How good would it have been if you walked into the Panerai booth and Mike Corn just tackled you? People would pay money for that, I think. He cuts a very impressive figure. Someone that other men would follow into battle. Seriously cool guy. Yeah, seriously. Seriously, seriously cool guy. Whatever he's buying, I'm selling. He's been with Panerai a while. Oh, cool. Uh yeah. He's done some I mean he's done a lot of it. So and so Paneraye has a limited edition with him and if you I think there are nineteen of them and if you buy one of these watches then you get to go on an expedition with Mike. Yeah. They did that with two watches, right? There's this trip. Oh so there's there's the Svalb Oh yeah, there's the Svalbard church. So the submersible is no longer part of the uh Luminar line. It's separate. Yep. They've got three forty seven millimeters that come in two so there's six watches total. Okay. But there's a a subset of all three that are super limited, I think the most is thirty three pieces for the Italian Navy one. Right. Right. And then it goes down to that's the one I don't want. I think my corn is eleven or twelve. Uh I thought his was I could be wrong. Maybe more. Maybe like thirteen and sixteen We'll link it up in the show notes. We've covered the watch. However many they're made, each one essentially serves as a ticket to this crazy experience. So in one you get to hang out with the Italian Navy and shoot guns and jump out of a helicopter and that's one I definitely don't want to do because I want to be on that one. Put me there. You go, you go. I want to go to Svalbard, man. Yeah, you get to do a liveaboard with my horn to go take a look at like the Arctic Sur like the icebergs and stuff like that. We gotta try to embed one of you dudes on each of these expeditions. We've got to talk to uh if if anybody from Panorai is listening, hit us up. If not, we'll hit you up. We got we gotta get somebody on these expeditions. Grail jumps out of it. Why don't we just expense a watch? Interesting. Johnny John's coming in. Do you have the MX? I don't. Yeah. Steven's got an MX. Okay. All right. I really hope Ben is not listening. All right. Somebody's got an MX. And then the third the third one is uh is with Julian Neri. In uh Bali uh not Bali. Uh wherever he lives. Polynesia. Somewhere in somewhere in Polynesian and you so he's a world class or was uh uh or is a two-time world record holder in free diving and has a stat Yeah, seed banks are rad. What? Grace Grace sh shrugging at me from off mic. We're gonna link to the seed banks. It'll be fine. But yeah, so you can you can kick around with the Italian Navy, you can um you can go exploring with Mike Horn or you can go free diving with Guliam Neri. He was previously with ball watches, he's been around the watch industry for a decade or so. And um and uh each one of them basically there's a normal version and there's a special version that includes this sort of experience. Cool. Yeah and and you know phenomenal people. Phenomenal people. And the experiences sound like they mean live aboard with one. Cool. So I know we said we were starting with like small independence and then we jumped right into Panorai. But uh what did you guys see other than I mean my hand is still tingling? Still tingling? Yes. Okay. From the firmness of my corner's handshake. We did not get any crazy firm handshakes, but we did start the day with some some pretty cool stuff. For sure. Um maybe talk about that, James? Yeah. So we started off with the Moser, which is they have a new version of their Alpine watch, which is this giant kind of square case rectangular watch that has no hands. It's a repeater. It's a repeater with no hands. And uh so the idea And it's correct, yeah. It's also a turbulent. So it's this like mirror black dial, a turbulent and nothing else. There's a lever on the side of the case, you can like click it on, listen to it, that's how you know what time it is. that was c with a completely covered dial. So you you couldn't tell the time, there was absolutely no way to tell the time. It was sort of a I guess concept art. So this thing's really interesting because I was originally pretty skeptical about this, but uh we were like, so how how the hell do you set it? Like it's min it's minute repeater. You need it to tell time. But like how how do you set it? There's no hands. So actually what they did was um you pull the crown out and the crown has a marking on it and then the crown tube is marked in five minute increments. Oh so you can one sell the time. And one full rotation. No you can set the time. So one full rotation of the crown is an hour and then it's marked in five minute increments. So what you do is you listen to it for the time and then you can adjust it, listen to it again to make sure it's right. And you can set it to within about five minutes. Legitimatively clever assumed like I you I sat there the whole time through this meeting and sometimes you what you sit in these meetings and they show you watch and you're like, This is a bit, this isn't a real product, they're gonna sell four of these. This they're selling one. Yeah, exactly. I'm never gonna have to think about it again. And uh th then at the end he's like, Oh, I can show you how to set it. And he like pulls the crown out and turns in and you're like, Oh. They really thought about that. That's kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds interesting. Still a bit, but a bit more cool. Anything else? We also saw an incredible clock. Oh. The latest MBF uh Lepe clock, the Medusa. Which we're going to be covering, don't worry. Is amazing. So it's it's a jellyfish, first of all. Uh and the whole idea was sparked because Max Booser's wife was stung by a jellyfish and he developed this like an aquapod. It's pre-aquapod, and now we've now we've cascaded into a little peque clock. And now this, and uh it's got a morano glass sort of dome for the bell of the jellyfish. It comes in like a pinkish purple color. A really rich blue. Really rich blue and a really like neon green. Uh and so the clock mechanism, which is column-shaped, actually hangs from the top of the glass, and then you can display it two ways. You can either put it like dock it into a base that looks like these like four metal tentacles, like on the tabletop, or you can hang it from the ceiling with a a metal cord in, which case each one comes with Murano glass tentacles that hang from a little like series of hooks inside. Yeah, with like little eyelets on it. So cool. And you can then hang the tentacles and it hangs from the ceiling and the tentacles move and like it's totally wild. Yeah, so that was uh that was definitely a highlight. Uh and Jack, uh we went to Gruble force, right? We did. And we saw Gruble force's smallest watch to date. Yep. It's the hair under uh forty millimeters. Yep. Thirty thirty-nine and change. I mean it really is just a hair under forty millimeters, but um it's uh it's a very, very wearable, very, very beautiful, uh extremely expensive watch. Balancier contemporaine? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and seeing uh seeing the Grubble Forzi, you know, sort of design idiom and aesthetic in uh in a in a in a case that small, it's uh it's it really is kind of a fresh take on what they do. Very, very cool thing to see. Yeah, definitely, I agree. Uh I we I put it on and took a bunch of wrist shots and I kind of couldn't believe it was a Gribble Forcey and I could see a lot of people who kind of love Gribble Force for the finishing, for the obvious quality of the watch making, but they don't feel like wearing something that's forty five millimeters by forty five millimeters. I could see them totally going for this though. Does it still feel super groble for Z? It does, yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean, you know, it's it's as lavishly finished as anything else that they do. It's really, really incredible. You know. So it's so it's I mean size wise, if not price wise, it's grouble for Z for the rest of us. Nice. And then James, where did you go after that? Uh we saw Resence. Oh yeah. So tons of really interesting stuff at Resonance. You could go for I think a really long time on it, um especially when you get into the type two stuff. Yeah. Which they just kind of keep iterating on and it becomes slowly more progressive and technologically uh kind of advanced. Uh for me, I mean I like I'm bit a bit of a sucker for just a white dial. So I instantly kind of gravitated to the new type three, which is now in kind of a silvery white dial. It really changes the character of the watch. It removes a lot of that like hyper minimalist. Yeah, Type is type type three is their dive watch? No, type three is the oil field. It's like the original one. It's the uh third it's a type three three. You wrote you wrote the really huge piece on the three three. They just call it the type three. They only make the one generation. So you saw the um the the e crown. Yeah, the e crown, uh which is the type two uh I'm I think it's a cool concept. I'm kinda curious, Jack, as someone who is is more uh more of a horological traditionalist in in certain ways, not not exclusively, but in certain ways. I wonder kind of what do you what do you think of the eCrown? What's your your take? Give us your hot take. interesting experiment. I like the fact that it's solar powered. I mean yes at some point the lithium cell's gonna have to get changed. You know, there's a there's a rechargeable battery in there that's powered uh you know, power powered by light. But uh you know, watches have to go in for service, you know, anyway. Um I mean there's the sort of of fantasy autonomy I think that is part of what makes mechanical horology attractive. But I don't have a problem with it. You know. I mean it it doesn't scratch the same itch as you know, a paddock Philippe or a wonderful you know, the something that's really, really purely mechanical and extremely traditional. But I So this is a watch that I guess was previewed last year as a concept. And is it now available for purchase? Yeah, it's available. They'll they'll have them in stores in the next couple month in stores, in retailers, uh in the next next couple months. Um the people it bothers it really bothers. In what if I'm just purely interested in terms of you know in terms of cost. How does it compare to a a more traditional uh watch from that company? It's a little bit so it's it's about the same price as the type three. So you your kind of like entry point into the brand would be something like the type one, um, which was the I guess actually the original resonance, but the um that's your your kind of entry point. They actually have a new slimmer version of that. They've updated the case. Um and it's really nice. It wears amazingly on the wrist. Um, especially 'cause it's titanium, so it's super light. Uh then you have the oil filled type three uh and now the type two E crown. And then above that you have the type five, which is the oil filled dive watch. That's the really big crazy, crazy one. So those are kind of your your price tiers. Yeah Yeah, you know it's funny, people have a problem the people who have a problem with the E crown really have a problem with the E crown and th you know, the the sort of the persistent complaint that people make about resence is well it's you know quote just uh quote a uh you know Ada movement um you know with a complication built on top, but there's so much more going on there. Yeah you know, mechanically and aesthetically. It's just I mean, you know, it's it's like uh complaining that you don't like a car because it's made out of metal. I like that. That's yeah. I mean I I like Benoit's who's the founder of Benoit Mitsiense. Um his argument for the E Crown and granted, he has a very vested interest, but uh his his argument which I hadn't heard him make before um is that this allows you to sort of trust your mechanical watch in a way that you might not otherwise? Like we we all acknowledge that mechanical timekeepers are not as precise as as quartz timekeepers, right? Like we know this. Right. Uh that's never going away. But what you can do now is instead of having to wake up in the morning and check your watch against an electronic timekeeper and reset it by hand and reset it when you change time zones and wonder every couple years, is is this losing time? Am I going to be late to something or whatever So the mechanical watch basically has this like little electronic babysitter that makes sure it's running. Um and there's a cool feature I also didn't do. Does does the worrying for you? It does. Yeah. And uh I I didn't know about this until earlier. I this wasn't part of um last year's concept watch. But what it does is you can set intervals by which the E Crown checks in on the position of the hands versus the electronic timekeeper. And if there's more than a reasonable variation, what it does is it just stops and it sets the hands to um midnight, to like perfect midnight. You know what it's conceptually similar to honestly as a brighter sans petitic, you know, except the except the regulating mechanism isn't in a cradle. It's just it's it's inside the watch. Yeah. Um which reminds me uh there's another yeah, there's another t take on this which is much larger and less portable from uh from Orvik. Did you guys see uh see their atonic clock? I walked by it. I haven't like gone in and gotten to check it out yet. I think I'm gonna try to pop by tomorrow. You know, to a James Bond movie. It's just crazy. So it's it's it's um uh an atomic clock, yeah. Uh with a mechanical watch that sits in a cradle and there's a mechanical coupling between the watch and the atomic clock. And uh you know it basically does what a brigade sans petit uh you know would have done and and and in addition it keeps the watch wound. So it sets it, it actually regulates it uh to keep to keep it from running too fast or too slow. And I mean it's a super, super cool thing. Two point seven million is the last uh quoted price I heard that's gone up since last ye They're raising it until you get scared that it's gonna keep going up and you just say fine, I'll take it. There are three of them and they're all sold. Yeah, um unclear. Unclear. I think uh I mean honestly I think if uh if anybody out there uh is listening and wants to express interest to Orvec I would I would say go right ahead. Um you know, no no idea what the sold or unsold status is. Um you know, and if you hit but if you have, you know, like really, really crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy money and you want to build a collection of crazy clocks, that's a good place to start. We also uh James, we also saw Roman Gautier. And uh we can't really talk about much of it. Most of it's coming out in the next like month or two. But uh I will say if you aren't familiar with Roman's work, I recommend you check it out. I've written about it. I know some others have written about it pretty extensively on the site. Um he's just a great example of somebody who came to watchmaking from from other disciplines. He came from from engineering and and a tooling background. And he's just doing like really wild high-tech but extremely beautifully finished uh watchmaking. Like it's it's wild stuff. Can you give us like a hint? Honestly, it's it's a new take on a classic model of his with some pretty major aesthetic updates. Uh I don't want to give any more than that away because it'll really give it away. But um he did have some new logical ones that we're more industrial finished uh logical ones. And the logical ones kind of cool because if you if you like the idea Which you might want to dial back. Like th this is a very wearable thing with a very open dial. You've got the chain, you've got like it's just a really, really fun thing to see, and then they'll finish them any way you can imagine. Titanium and flat black. Uh we saw a gold one today that had like four different types of finishing on the dial so that you had a really like a stack sort of city like three dimensionality and a big blue enamel. You know, the dial itself is quite small. It was an Anita Porchet enamel too. Like it's they're they're that's as good as it gets. Yeah, they're not messing aro.und But you're wearing this really cool uh you know, kind of quirky vintage piece and d uh and expressing uh admiration for Roman Gauthier. Yeah, I like his stuff and I I've been been a fan of Forza and I could never wear one. You know, I l I love the uh the SIG one. This has been one of my favorite watches of the last decade and have you ever had one on on on your wrist for any length of time? Uh Gribble Forzy? I have, yeah, the uh the big GMT. Oh wow. What so what was that? The one that Jack wore to Balzal World. Just so scared I was gonna bump it on something. Just constantly didn't want to move. Just wanted to hold my arm out like it was in a cast. And like Yeah, exactly. And for which I'm responsible. Trevor Burrus And I'll do irresponsible things in a $600,000 car. It's a whole different game to watch. Oh, I know you will. Yeah, so after Roman, I think that was we ended up kind of having a little break to try to get some content up. What did you guys Eat some carpaccio. HYTHING HEROLGIS. with something like that is that the entire uh brand is based around a single uh single idea. So it it runs the risk of turning into a one-trick pony. But they've been very creative with their designs over the years. I think you know a lot of really interesting variations. They've done some linear stuff so the fluid doesn't have to go in a circle, it can go in straight lines too, boys and girls. Okay. Um you know, it's uh it I think I think they're doing cool things. Sweet. We went to Laurent Ferry as well, huh? Yeah, we went to Laurent Ferry. How's the bridge one? The bridge one, yeah. I mean I think I I like the look of it in person. Yeah. I think you you really liked it, Jack. You know, the bridge one is uh that that kind of case design is a real throwback. Um, you know, like mid mid fifties maybe, uh, you know, to like mid nineteen sixties. You know, you would see a lot of that kind of thing and then, you know, w watches gradually gradually got larger and sort of more aggressively masculine and then courts came along and everybody just, you know, kind of forgot about that kind of case design idiom. But I I like it. I mean th they're doing it just in stainless steel right I would personally love to see it in rose gold, which I think um, you know, I I think rose gold makes case geometry a little bit more visible than yellow gold. And you know, the movement is just gorgeous. I mean it's not a turbion and it doesn't have the natural escapement in it. Um but it it really looks like one of those great classic paddock uh turbion um uh observatory chronometer movements from uh you know from I think it was the late late late forties and early nineteen fifties that they made those things. It's a s it's a very striking watch. Definitely a polarizing design though. You know? So speaking of polarizing design, sorry to hijack things for a second. But John went to go see Richard Meal, uh, which may have provoked the hottest take of all from me of this show, but But I'm gonna I'm gonna let you talk about the watches and then and then I'll give you my my take and then my heavily revised take. Sure. So I mean I I you know I went and saw the Bonbon collection uh that's the right name, the Bonbon Collection. The Bon Bon Collection. Booth is a candy store. Don't eat the watch by mistake. Exactly, right. These are watches that are brightly colored. They look like candy. They're inspired by candy. James just pulled up a picture. Yep, that's one of them. James pulled up a picture and had to put the mic down because he is laughing so hard. Um having said that, you know, there are tears of joy. There is one of the pieces uses grandfaux enameling in uh in making the dial. So there's some serious techniques uh being used to make these watches. My understanding also is that Richard Mill has invested in the company that makes what is the that sale uh the um the their carbon fiber cases the TPT Exactly the the company that makes those cases also has some other um areas where they've been they've been making um uh you know things from other uh materials I'd I'd have to like Exactly, yeah. So they so they're they're investing in uh this company and they've been able to use them uh to produce some of the aspects of these watches. Um you know it's interesting that for their final uh appearance at the SIHH, Richard Mill is presenting a collection like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, we were talking about this earlier and I think I I don't know who said it, but I think that this is and whoever said it was right that um this is Richard Mill kind of looking to maybe the next uh chapter um after SIHH. Um and in fact one of the representatives told me that they'll be releasing more quote unquote serious watches um later on in the year uh you know as independent product drops. Starting off on a lighter note for now. Exactly. Yeah. I think they're doing something fun and attention grabbing for their last SIHH. And just like you know, just like code at AP, um, you know like what now? Just like code at AP, people are talking about it and they have opinions and that's kind of Aaron Powell Yeah, so I'll admit like the first time I saw this I was like, all right. I and and I actually you may not guess it from my my usual taste. I actually love Richard Meal. I I love how unapologetic. Stop it, you do not. Yeah, I love how over the top and ridiculous they are. Um and how unapologetic they are about it. And there's something about wearing a like big, sort of flashy, like bright pink plastic watch that costs well more than I make in a year. Yeah. Uh well, well more than I make in a year. A lot more. Like many times more. Um that is so fun. Like there's something really kind of like it feels like it's something you shouldn't be doing and it's fun. You know what? It's transgressive to your personal taste. It's to your personal taste too. And you know there's something real fun about that. Yeah. Something enjoyable about going like radically against what's typefree. Agreed. That said, uh I saw these and I was like they they literally have little pieces of candy. They're not inspired by like the colors and patterns of traditional candy. They have lollipops on the dial and like lemon slices. And like actual confectioner sugar in the watch. No, no, no. But like little enamel and little like synthetic uh like polymer. Yeah, right. You can eat the watch. No, no, no. And they and the thing is like and they're still recharge meals. They're built the same way. They still have the same movements, the same cases. Like they're they're based on popular RM models. So the prices are between I think a hundred and fifty and two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. And my my knee jerk gut reaction was like fuck this. Like they're making are you kidding me? Like they're making Steven $200,000 watches. With lollipops on the dial. Are are they just like, are they really like trying to rub it in our faces at this point. Um I mean look if you could if I I I I get what you're saying, but like honestly, you know, given the pricing of Richard Meal, if I I think that uh well I I mean maybe rubbing it in your faces is is uh is is a little strong. But I feel like if you're going to find that kind of product positioning offensive, you don't need to put lollipops on the dial to find it offensive. You're just you're gonna find the whole the whole thing. Real hot with that with that take. Do you want a lollipop wall? Kind of. No. No, not at all. But um You know, I had a conversation with with John and with with Gray who who also went to go see those watches, and you know, Gray actually pointed out I,'ll give him him some credit here. Uh rare rare credit for Gray. You know, he he pointed out that this is in a lot of ways like Richard Mill being self-aware and like kind of acknowledging that like what they do is considered sort of transgressive and by a lot of people offensive or like not the way like quote unquote fine watchmaking should be should be done. And part of what Richard Mill is doing is trying to point out that like the idea of fine watchmaking in the twenty first century is by its nature self indulgent and a little bit of a pretty sweet line. There we go. Yeah. Uh yep, yep. Tasty tasty joke. I think I think I'm gonna just keep talking over you so that doesn't uh go any w we don't keep going in that direction. Yep. But uh yeah, I think I think that's the right take. I think it is it is re short meal kind of like having fun with other people's perception of them and continuing to show that like r we take fine watchmaking often too seriously. Extremely seriously and that it's not that serious. And that the idea once you sit down and think about it, the idea of putting candy on the dial of a watch that's cased in quartz composite that's bright pink and mounted on an orange uh velcro strap, that is no more or less ridiculous than a cathedral gong minute repeater with a spherical turbulence. Like they're all sort of more ridiculous. Maybe but they're all sort of indulgences and they're all matters of taste and different sorts of craft. And you know There was an apropos remark made to me earlier today by somebody who works for w who's exhibiting in the Ka about you know just how sort of deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply humorous um, you know, uh watch making can be. And you know, let's not forget that you know, we're in Switzerland, we're in Geneva, uh the uh Protestant Rome, uh John Calvin City, you know, not uh necessarily the party center of the Western world. And uh, you know, watch making for most of its history was quite a s quite a serious enterprise. I mean it can be the party center of the Western world if you know where to That's gonna be tomorrow's podcast is Jack's party guide to Geneva. Um I think that wraps up what we saw except for Cartier, which we saw as a group toward the end of the day. Um but I think before we get into our thoughts about Cartier, it would be worth uh taking a little bit of a break. And as mentioned, we have Mr. Joe Thompson's interview with Katherine Rainier, uh the CEO of JLC. So we're gonna cut to that, uh give that a listen. I think you're gonna really enjoy it, and then we will be back with our thoughts on Cartier and some uh kind of forward looking uh to tomor
Unknown row we are here at sih in geneva for the exhibition and we are with catherine reinier the The CEO of Géger Le Cout. And we want to talk to the CEO of Géger Lecout's Day about uh about what's going on, your agenda uh Géger, and uh also a bit about you. Catherine, can you tell us uh how was it that you came into the watch industry
Unknown ? So I've been with Géger Le Coutre now since May 2018. Uh fantastic adventure since day one. I'm loving it, and here at SIHH, I'm very lucky to be uh presenting with the team our new Gyro Tourbillon, uh the Master Grand Tradition, Giro Tourbillon uh Westminster Perpetual. So this is a masterpiece and I'm sure we'll come back to that. Before joining Geger, I was in um uh I was also in the high um jewelry business uh with um Cartier first of all for a few years in the US actually uh back then based in New York uh since um until 2003. So since 1999 to 2003. Then I joined Van Cleffen Arpels for in 2003 in Paris. And for the last 10 years I was based in Hong Kong, working throughout Asia. So I'm bringing a love of know-house craftsmanship, clearly heritated from my years working with this beautiful maison as well as uh a knowledge of uh you know markets that definitely matter a lot to us with the US and Asia. So I feel my baggage is strong enough to uh to embark on a beautiful
Unknown Excellent. Can I just follow up a little bit about the US? I understand that you studied in the United States and are pretty familiar with the US
Unknown . You've done your research. I was uh actually, I got an MBA uh from Boston College a few years back in time. Uh I loved it. It was uh actually an objective of mine at the time as a as a young student to go abroad to learn to get an experience. I was dreaming of working abroad. So this really gave me a foot in the door, and I was very lucky to to get uh a fantastic experience at uh as a exchange student in the uh in you know in Boston for a few years and that led me to my first job uh in New York. Yeah did you very fond memories. Upstate in New York? No, I lived in Manhattan, uh upper East Side. Okay. Eighty six and third. Back
Unknown then. Very nice. Uh bit about the uh gyro tourbillon that you've mentioned. Um it has been a little a little while since uh two years. Two years since you've had okay. Can you tell us the significance
Unknown then? Yes along Gyro Tourbillon uh as you you know, definitely is you know an expression of the precision of the maison. The first one was introduced in 2004, uh, really to eliminate all the impact of gravity, you know, on the watch on the movement. This is a really in the continuity of a willingness for Géger Lecoutre to always be at the edge of precision. Back at the beginning of our of our maison back in the 19th century when Antoine Lecoutre started watchmaking industry, he was actually cutting the pignon, you know, this uh this piece in the movement to make it as precise as possible. And then he made a millionomèters of which we have actually one here in presentation at the at the salon. This machine dates back eighteen forty four. So all of this was really in the search for precision and the Gyro Tourbillon in 2004 when it was introduced, was exact exactly in the same objective. So now we forward to 2019. We are introducing our fifth gyro tourbillon, and this time we have three komplikains that are really doing a step forward into the performance of each one. The gyrotourbillon has a konstant force, it's reduced in size, so the the watch is very wearable, very comfortable. The minute repeater is a Westminster chime, so really four gongs and a quite a complex melody. And the perpetual calendar can be set backward and forward, which is a first for Géger Le Coutre. So a masterpiece for us, five years in the making roughly. So you can imagine how lucky I am to be here today with you to talk about this piece
Unknown . Okay, very good, thank you. Let's talk a little bit about uh the complications and the importance of complications. Uh we it in the past since you sa past decade really that has become far more important for J.J. Le Court. Tell me a little bit about that then and the manufacturer, the the capacity of the manufacturer to make these kinds of products.
Unknown Yeah well our manufacturer was born in eighteen thirty three and today it is exactly in the same location where it started back 186 years ago. It has grown through the innovation and the steps in the watchmaking industry that Géger Lecoutre has done through the centuries. Today we have in-house 180 know-hows, 180 métiers in watchmaking. So we are a fully integrated manufacturer. We make our own movement, we make each component of the movement. The Jarot Tourbillon is a totally remastered movement in-house, which took, as I mentioned, already years of development. It gives us an ability to really go further in the research to always invest in research and development for improving not only the performance of our existing movement and calibre, but also to create and innovate new calibre. You know, one of the beauty of Géger Le Coutre is when we have an idea, we can start from a white page and start from scratch on a new calibre and we are completely integrated and able to do it ourselves. In the manufacture, we have also the chance to have métier art, which we are presenting at the salon this year. So it means we are doing guillotes in-house on our on our dials like the limited editions we're introducing this year, the master ultra scenes. We are doing enameling, we are doing gem setting, engraving, so all of these decorative arts on the watch are totally in-house uh in-house done as well. So the manufacture is both a house of invention and technical uh watchmaking proess together with the beauty of the artistic and aesthetic design required uh for our pieces to be uh you know to have their unique style and personality. And even enameling on Guillos. Definitely actually one of the editions of the Giro Tourbillon, it's 18 pieces limited series, has a blue enamel guillotche dial made in-house and we've taken this blue enamel dial through a family of master ultra scene, all limited edition, a tourbillon limited to 50 pieces, a moon limited to 100 and a perpetual calendar also limited to 100. They all have this beautiful color of blue, a very nice depth in the color, unamol, guilloche dial. So Guillet means by hand. Actually the artist doing it in our workshop is here with us on the salon for the week. She's doing the work herself line by line uh going at least three times on each line to give the perfect finish uh so it can take days uh for between the enameling and the guillochet for the
Unknown dial to come to life. Uh let me ask a bit about the reverso. When I started covering the in industry many, many years ago, Géger Le Coult was c you know, the the criticism such as it was, but it's essentially a one trick pony and the and the trick is this swivel case. Okay. Okay, so the complications that have come uh in the f l you know, over these past years have corrected that. And also the master la la things like this. So what is the importance of the Reverso today to Gége le
Unknown Coult? Well Reverso is our iconic creation. It is clearly um a part of Gerg le Couture a heart and soul of Gerg le Coutre. You know it's uh a creation that has been with us uh since the last century that has gone through a a lifetime of transformation, evolution, you know in aesthetics, but that keeps uh a case that uh is very similar to uh you know the beginning of its life and that is still very very modern today and totally answering the needs of the clients. We see a very strong demand for reversal. And our objective for this collection is to always be meeting the expectation of our clients in terms of personalization so to be able to offer like we are reintroducing this year, you know, a back um that can be engraved in pink gold for instance. We didn't have this in the collection anymore, so this is coming back. We're working on the play of colours. We have a beautiful burgundy reverso we're introducing this year with Fagdiano straps. Fagliano is our partner in Argentina doing leather work at a very luxury level and very initiate level. And they are working with us on beautiful straps. So the collection is a very elegant collection, very timeless line which we love and cherish. And you're right also we are very lucky to uh to have a full offer uh of of course high watchmaking complications and the ability with Garrot Tourbillon and a lot more of uh our mastering of complications to be a leader in this segment. And one of the specificity of Géger Lecoutre since day one, since the maison was created, is really to be a well balanced watchmaking maison between men and women. From the day the Le Cout family started the watch business, they had men and women offer. From the day the Reverso came into the maison. There was a man and a women version. And throughout the life of Géger Lecoutre, men and women have evolved with their own innovation and their own steps in the women, for instance, one of the key moments was the introduction of the 101 movement, still one of the smallest mechanical movements in the world. And this dates back to 1929 and it's still a very thought after movement, one of a kind in its um in its category. So all that to say that at Géger Le Coutte, definitely the Reverso is our icons and we have You
Unknown 're now the boss at Geje Lecourt. What is your agenda? What are some of your goals that that you have uh having taken over uh less than a year ago? Yes.
Unknown Well you know I believe um first of all I have a gem in my uh in my hands. I have a fantastic team and I have a maison uh to work with that has uh an amazing heritage and um a manufacture uh one of a kind. So with that uh and the beautiful creations that exist today. What we need to do now is make it shine brighter than it ever had. So we can share the specificity of our maison, the beauty of our um innovations and our in-house manufacture and also the passion that Géger Lecoutre puts in all of its pieces. We are a maison of emotion, we're a maison of collective innovation and for us the values of excellence, the values of respecting heritage and authenticity are extremely important in everything that we do. So my job today is to respect this maison, everything that has been done in the past, make it shine, make it grow in terms of image, make it uh uh move forward in terms of innovation, creation, so that uh you know it is on a great shape it's in great shape for the future and it can continue on for many centuries to come Is this a matter of communication? I mean do you feel like everything, communication for sure. Uh you know, in sharing more and more our stories, our heritage. We've got so many uh things to say to the public. But also, you know, other products, um, sharing our Giro Tourbillon like we are doing here, continuing our introductions, working on our Metiérard. Uh it is also a matter of teams, you know the the first um encounter very often with our maison will be in our stores, uh we'll be uh with our partners, encountering the people who will talk about Géger Lecoutre and my objective is for them to share the same passion that we all have from the manufacturer and the watchmaker that has assembled and created the calibre in the watch all the way uh to the salesperson that will present it to the end client. So you know this is um this is our job uh to pass on this message uh throug
Unknown hout the the human chain. A little bit about the US market if I can in terms of Jezus position on that market and how you see the development of the brand in the market
Unknown . Okay. Well we have um a very uh high ambitions in the in the US. We've been very historically um strong with a high watchmaking timepieces. We have a very nice pool of collectors, um people who are really looking after our signatures in terms of gyro tourbillon, tourbillon, duometre, you know and all the innovation that the Maison has done through the last decades. We also introduced last year the Polaris, a new line in a classic sport segment, elegant sport segment that has been very well received uh in the United States. We'll come back this year, but I cannot say more, uh with a new model which we believe we'll enjoy uh will be very um uh appreciated in the market and we're very excited about
Unknown this news but that's for later. Okay, very good. Uh can I ask you I know as uh in Richemont, uh you can't say too too much. But we it's this this show is occurring at an interesting time in terms of the markets both in the US and globally. Um the feeling I'm getting here uh from the people I talk to is that that that twenty nineteen could be a difficult year globally just because of the very the uncertainty, et cetera. How how do you see twenty nineteen? We'
Unknown ve learned to to live with volatility in everything that we do in our business life, but also sometimes in our personal life, you know, the world is unpredictable today. What I see from my perspective is the projects that we have at Géger Le Coutre, the beautiful collection we're introducing here, the ambitions we have for this maison. There are a lot of things that we can do to make it shine again, to make it bright, uh and I'm very confident that we're on the right track. Then you know the rest is not in my hands. Um but definitely we'll do uh everything we
Unknown can in one sense is that um for years and years I mean in the past uh CEOs at the Richmond Group and throughout the watch industry it's been pretty much a boys club. And now here we have you. You you are now breaking the mould as being uh a trailblazer. Well
Unknown you can tell me what you think. Uh you know it's um for me what's the most important uh before the gender in the in my place today is the fit with the maison. It's making sure that the person who is leading the teams and and embarking on the journey in this maison loves it, respects it and has a perfect fit in terms of values in protecting and making this maison grow with its authenticity and and really um build something very stable for the future. And that uh happened for me from the day I walked in the door of this manufactur Eccellent, thank you very much for spending time with us. Tack så mycket. Thank you
Unknown . Let's let's chat for just a few minutes about Cartier. Uh Cartier does a group presentation every year for the American and English speaking press. Uh that's kind of like the you know, not not social event, but the like work event of the show. Yeah. Nobody skips it. Uh you scan your badge when you go in, they know exactly who attends and who doesn't. Uh as long as I've been going to the SIHH, it's like the one thing that no matter what, like everybody goes. You don't miss it, you show up on time. You guys told me this now. It's all it's all right. We had a lot of people there. It was fine. You were doing the hard work while we're sitting.m I don't count That'.. It's actually true Um so yeah, so I mean h has it been the same for you guys for for Johnny and Jane. This is my thirteenth S IHH. Uh oh. Um and uh yeah, it's it's uh it is you know the the most one of the two most important events of the year and uh you know prob arguably the most important event uh you know d on any given year. Uh both in terms of uh commercial relevance and in terms of what Cardi just sort of represents uh, you know in terms of its history in fine watch making and jewelry des In fact, I can remember uh I've also been coming a while and I can remember a time when they invited more press. They actually took out two different rooms for the for the cardio watch presentation. You couldn't in a single room. Yeah I mean it's it's mob now, but it used to be uh just a a rugby scrum. And basically what it is is is everybody sits around these tables. Every table has a representative from Cartier there, uh usually from from the watchmaking HQ in in Geneva or Paris. Uh and then the uh executives and the marketing department give a little presentation. There's these like s around-the-room screens that you know wrap around the whole room. Um and you get kind of a a short presentation of the new product, of the strategy, a little bit about the marketing, and a sense of kind of like the the trajectory, where these products come from, why they're being introduced now and kind of what they mean for for the brand. And then uh that lasts maybe fifteen minutes. And then there's forty five minutes of trays of watches being passed around, people from the brand presenting them, giving you the the full walkthrough. You have the opportunity to ask questions. Yeah, and you're getting not only the uh sort of um you know more uh widely produced commercial product, I mean you know they're they're passing around high jewelry pieces too. So, you know, you've got you've got people passing back and forth hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of uh you know just stunning, stunning, stunning high jewelry pieces. Yeah, and often these are pieces that are made in, you know, ten examples, twenty examples, fifty examples, and like you know, where uh most of us are based in New York, like these are pieces that like the New York mansion might get like one or two of and it will go immediately to a top client and like we'll never even make it out onto the floor. Everybody's being super careful not to spill their diet coke. Yes. Or their champagne, their Cartier champagne. We actually got uh got a bit of guff today from the uh from the the brass about not drinking champagne? Our our table that that most of us were sitting at with a few other uh folks from some some big magazines. We were the only table not indulging in champagne because all of us had other appointments or other things to do afterwards. Or podcast recording. Podcast recording. That's my bad. Sorry. I'm the party pooper. Yeah, so let's uh let's jump into the Cartier product. And James, although you weren't in this presentation, we did have the opportunity to guys didn't respond to the blown up my spot here. Yeah, I saw uh selection of pieces yesterday, yeah. Um so yeah, what was what was everybody's favorites from the uh the Cartier presentation? Oh, and Jack, you cannot just list in order literally every presentation. There was um there was this uh Yeah I talked about this on yesterday's episode. That was pretty great. It's the Santos Dumont. Yes. Yes. Seven millimeters thick. Six year battery life. Yeah. Uh really thin. Comes in steel or rose gold. Steel, rose gold, or two tone. The rose gold one is like eleven thousand eight hundred dollars, which let's let's don't get it twisted. That's a ton of money spent on a quartz Steel one is what like three thousand in Chinese. Under four million less than that. Still, it has got you know, it's it's really amazing. I think uh this is maybe the easiest time in Cartier's history that it's been to get into a Cartier watch. I mean, oh well, all right. There was all of the Musta Cartier stuff that we don't need to talk about. Um but you know, I mean when when you can get into a Cartier watch in steel for three thousand, four thousand, five tho Trevor Burrus And like a real Cartier watch. And you know, great classic designs. I mean, every single core model that Cartier makes Yeah. And you know you feel something when you have them on your wrist. Yeah. I agree. John, how about for you? What was what was your highlight? I think it for me it was those watches. Are we all this is amazing? This is a hodinky podcast, and what you've got is you've got all four of us sitting around, and our favorite watch from Cartier is a like four thousand dollar quartz watch. So I I know I made a car analogy yesterday, but I'll make one more and like I always like to focus on the first thing that's your personal brand. I like to focus on with cars like what the least expensive handmade car in the world is. Right? And that would be a Mercedes G Wagon, still made in one factory. If you order if a Kardashian orders a G sixty five with the V twelve, dude builds it, the next one he builds could be a Dakar race truck or a Tanzanian police truck. Like they just run along the line, they fill orders. They're handmade. It's awesome. With watches, I try and think like what's the cheapest way you get into a legit icon? That's a very watered-down term, but let's talk Royal Oak, Submariner, Cartier Tank. Like you take those that proven aesthetic that's lasted a really long time, this is now essentially a walk-in point for an icon that that is vastly less than what you would pay for any steel Rolex. Any. And uh and sure, it's not the same level of watchmaking in terms of the movement, but if you're looking for a dress watch, maybe you only dress up every now and then, so your your day-to-day watch is something else. Yeah, I always see this huge appeal there. I always feel like the entry level is where you really see what a brand is made of. Absolutely. Which is thirty four hundred dollars or Funnily enough, I think you know we see this watch and it's quartz, and then there's also the um one of their big pushes this year is the Benoit uh collection. And they're they're doing the standard model, uh, which is the the benoir is the it's the French word for bathtub. I'm sure I'm I'm butchering it terribly, but um the it's that sort of round, slightly curved, uh sort of oval-shaped watch. Um and they're doing the standard shape and then also the allanger, which is the the elongated, kind of stretched out version. And there's a few sort of gemset and like highly metalworked um allonger models uh that they easily could have put quartz movements in and nobody would have questioned it. These are essentially jewel jewelry pieces. But they didn't, they put a formed movement inside of it, an in-house formed movement, which is what they would have done back in the, you know, the fifties or sixties. Uh and I really I was saying to some of the folks at Cartier, like that to me is a really good sign. It shows that they're they're thinking through these products. They're not just trying to push stuff out the door and you know, make it kind of like somebody who has the means to buy it sees it and says, Oh, that looks pretty, I'm gonna buy it. They're they're trying to give these products substance and stuff that will make them last and stuff that can appeal to the enthusiasts. Uh and I I love that. I think it's it's a good sign. It reminds me of the uh the in a funny way, there's a weird, weird thing to bring up here, but um it reminds me of the uh one of the Van Halen uh writer. So we were talking about this in the office the other day in a totally different context, but i Van Halen used to have in their in their rider when they played shows that you couldn't have any bro they wanted a bowl of MMs and there couldn't be any brown ones. And the reason they did that wasn't because they didn't like brown MMs. It was because their show had a bunch of pyrotechnics in it and the specs for the pyrotechnics were on either side of this request for the brown MMs. And they knew that if they showed up to the dressing room and there were brown M and Ms in the bowl, somebody didn't read the paperwork and it meant they were in danger because the person probably didn't know what the hell they were doing uh and they needed to make sure that they didn't get blown up on stage. Right. Diamond Dave operating on a different level. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um but uh um but in a in a sort of related way, I I think this is a good litmus test is like Cartier is taking watches that they could put quartz movements in easily. It wouldn't affect sales one bit. It would increase their margins on the products. And they're not because they're doing it the right way. And I think that that is a good sign that you can basically trust throughout the product range that everything is getting the right attention and everything is being thoroughly thought through. You don't need to worry that anything's being done kind of thoughtlessly. We should probably mention uh the uh Tono watches and the prevey collection that those were a very big deal. Yeah. I mean, you know, as as uh as wonderful as the quartz watches were from a sort of philosophical and ex philosophical standpoint and an accessibility perspective, boy, they were the uh the previous stuff was super super nice uh any of our dear listeners wants to get me a uh a nice little gift to say thank you for uh I don't know something for my dulcet tones. Yeah, but uh please these pre Vay Tama watches are unbelievable. They were j I mean every single one I put on I was like I want this one. No, no, I I want this one. No. Actually the one I really want, there's a super, super cool uh two time zone. That's where you were going with Oh, I mean Rose Gold. They come in Steeler Rose. Steeler Rose. uh two movements and and historically one of the ways you would do a two-time zone watch um you know with uh uh with with two separate sets of hands on the dial was you would just have two small movements. So Vacheron did one um in the nineteen seventies uh for the Prestige Degenev, the Prestige Degenev two two times out super. Super, cool watch. But this is actually a single movement. So you uh there are two crowns, which again, you know, sort of promotes the illusion that there are two movements, but you pull out one crown and uh it actually it it actually sets both sets of hands. And then the bottom set of hands, uh what looks like a crown is actually a pusher, so you push it in and the uh uh the the hour hand jumps in one hour increments. It's just a minute hands. That's cool. Well if you'd been at the presentation. I would have happily joined the presentation. I am going to continue to pass blank. Had anyone provided me the context next year. Next year, James. I'm not going to be invited back now. It's all my fault. But that's I mean if I if I honestly if I had to pick uh pick one of the mechanical pieces this year it, would it be that one. Just like it's it just feels so Cartier. Cartier. The other thing we have to mention is the Santos chronograph. Yes. So last year Santos came out, brand new Santos, whole bunch of like little not even little, a whole bunch of innovations in it, new strap system, new bracelet. Um they reshaped the case, changed how the bezel interacts with the lugs and the bracelet. Right. Um I did a week on the wrist with one and loved it. Those of us on one I giving it back was genuinely difficult. Sant you know, the the Santos collection was basically you know I mean there were some interesting things being done there, but they were basically the watches that you didn't get if you were a really serious watch person from Cartier. Right. And in one fell swoop they suddenly became a good one. Yeah. And this year we got a chrono. Yeah. And the chrono again, 'cause they're they're continuing to innovate on this stuff, is it's one of their in-house movements and they kind of re re jiggered it a little bit. Um and so instead of having two pushers kind of flanking the crown, um there's one pusher and it's opposite the crown. So it's on the left side of the case. Uh and that's your start stop. And then the crown is also a pusher and that's your reset mechanism. So you kind of keep that classic Santos shape. You don't you don't have the kind of lopsidedness of the two pushers, which I really I think it's a an extremely smart solution. I did. I did. Um I love that watch. The CPCP uh pusher. Yeah. Um I did. And I actually talked to some folks from Cartier and they said that that was on purpose. Uh that this was what the design team was thinking of. And they thought it would be something that, you know, the the Santos Corner Rav is obviously a very commercial product. Like it's something they want to sell in volume, but they thought this would be a nice way to get the kind of smaller enthusiast community maybe The um uh there's there's an exhibition of uh cardio watches outside uh the the meeting area. So you walk into the booth and uh one of the things that you can see is a really, really, really, really wonderful watch that used to belong to Fred Aster. Um you know, just l a lot of cool stuff. And um So if you want to get Jack something, now you know what to get Jack. Uh and and I also saw a couple of their um you know the really high end fine watch making stuff that they're not talking about all that much these days, but the you know the watches are still being produced. There are still clients for them, which I was, you know, very happy to hear. Um uh the Astro Turbion, uh the uh Mystery Turbion, I mean just just super, super cool stuff. You know. And I've I've always loved those things and it was just it was just great to see them. Cool. It would have been really great to see them, I agree. Yeah. Well you can see those. What do you guys think of the booth this year? The Cartier booth? No, the booth in general. Booths in general. They're cool. The URM as one has kind of stayed with me. Yeah. I haven't been in there. Alright, let's you know what? We're starting to run long. I love this question. I'm gonna make people wait. You gotta tune in to the next episode if you wanna hear us talk through the booths. 'Cause what we're gonna do what we're gonna do tomorrow. Tomorrow's the last day that all of us are at the show. Jack and John will be in Geneva for another day or two uh kind of seeing some of the the brands that present outside the show. But tomorrow, Wednesday is our last full day. We've got the whole team here at SIHH. So make sure you tune in. We're gonna do a full show recap, favorite watches of the show, trends, things that surprised you, favorite booths we'll talk about, uh 'cause I agree with you, James. There's some really interesting stuff going on this year. Uh and kind of bring it bring it home before we actually head home uh to uh I'm gonna do my annual trade show bathroom review. Amazing. I can't wait. Can you tell me now so I know which one to go to um cool. So thank you guys for tuning in and uh we will see you back here tomorrow.