Watches & Wonders 2025: Daily Episodes Live From Geneva | Day 2¶
Published on Thu, 3 Apr 2025 00:29:44 +0000
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Synopsis¶
This is day two of Hodinkee Radio's coverage from Watches and Wonders 2025 in Geneva. Host James Stacey is joined by colleagues Ben, Tantan, and Mark to discuss the major watch releases they've seen. The episode features extensive discussion of Rolex's new releases, particularly the 1908 on bracelet, the GMT with Serachrome dial, and the controversial Landweller. They debate which pieces they'd choose if money were no object, with the green ceramic dial GMT and rose gold pieces generating significant enthusiasm.
The team also covers Tudor's releases, including the Pelagos Ultra with its innovative luminous bracelet clasp and the new Black Bay variants. They note a shift toward more commercial, mainstream products from Tudor this year compared to previous years' experimental pieces. The episode includes a fascinating interview with Matthew Umara, CEO of the Watches and Wonders Geneva Foundation, who reveals staggering logistics: 49,000 visitors last year, 40,000 hotel room nights booked, and 6,000 staff members working the event.
Other highlights discussed include TAG Heuer's new Formula One collection (debated as TAG's "MoonSwatch"), Vacheron Constantin's record-breaking Les Cabinotiers Berkley Grand Complication with 41 complications, Grand Seiko's achievement of the most accurate mechanical watch (±20 seconds per year), and Cartier's Tank Asymétrique revival. The hosts provide candid opinions on pricing, wearability, and how these releases fit into the broader watch industry landscape, noting how even historic achievements struggle for attention when competing with Rolex announcements.
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Transcript¶
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| James Stacey | This week's episodes of Hodinki Radio are proudly sponsored by our partners at UBS. Stay tuned later in the episode for what we're planning this year in celebration of all things horology. And keep an eye out for the return of UBS House of Craft. Hello and welcome to day two of Watches and Wonders 2025. My name is James Stacey. I've got Ben, Tantan, and Mark. We are digging into everything we saw today. We're trying to move quickly. We've got a ton of stuff. It's a very busy show this year. We also have a special segment in just a few minutes with the CEO of Watches and Wonders Geneva Foundation, Matthew Umair. And I think it's a pretty good chat. Andy and I sat down with him. We had some questions. You won't believe how many hotel rooms they book for this. It's truly a staggering number, so stay tuned for that. But guys, we uh we had a we've had a really busy day. We sure have. Uh we saw Tutor yesterday after we recording, so can chat Tutor if we want. We finally got some hands-on with Rolex. Yeah, pretty exciting. Yeah. Uh Oris, Grand Seiko, Tag Hoyer, Air Mez. It was a busy day. Yeah. You guys want to want to do a little get get through the the Rolex hurdle with uh there's so much stuff to see and and talk about. I think we probably should. Let's let's do Rolex for all the people that don't want Rolex, just skip ahead. Five minutes. Yeah. The with somebody else, that's the next segment. Okay. You could jump to that if you need to. But look, I was surprised um by a lot of the stuff. Uh, but especially 1908 on a bracelet, a firebreaker. Yeah. Really good. And uh Tantan, the GMT with the Seracrome dial, the difference that a matte dial makes to a modern, you know, ceramic clad Rolex is really remarkable. That's a cool watch. It's bizarre how good it is. It's so and it's really different from the black dial. I completely agree. And you know, I think you would just think that something like that is just such a cheap, you know, like oh they just threw a colored dial in, you know, like it's the same thing as a Hulk, right? No. Um this is the first ceramic dial Rolex has ever made in a watch. So it is officially a serochrome dial. It is optically different on the dial than it is outside of the crystal. So compared to the one on the bezel, I believe it's the same shade, but it just looks so different and you know both of us observed that when we saw in the booth it kind of looked matte but actually I don't think that's the case. It just isn't glassy. It just isn't like bright and glossy. It doesn't capture light in the same way that you would expect. And I think that's so much of why it looks killer. Like it doesn't, I think ceramic tends to, you know, there's a fine line between looking cheap and looking like really rich and saturated. And I think this style manages to balance that in a way that I've never seen before. Um, people have made ceramic dials before not in this way. Yeah. Ben, what'd you figure? I don't even know where to begin. We saw so many things. Yeah, it was a lot of people. I'm always excited when Tantan's excited, when Mark is excited. James doesn't get excited, but these guys get excited. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Um, that was cool. Yep. For sure. I gotta go right to landwell. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's the star of the show ultimately. So I think it was really, really nice on the wrist. I felt the 40 millimeters is too large for me. Then again, I'm literally wearing a 36 millimeter Rolex right now. That's my size in Rolex. Super slim, really nice. Um the steel I felt was a little bit light. Again, I'm wearing a precious watch, so I I like heavy things. I thought the rose gold was the standout actually. The movement looks beautiful uh in in in in the flesh in the metal. Um dial, not my favorite, but we kinda knew that. It's better than than I thought it was gonna be. Um Mark, what do you think of Landweller? Yeah, I think there's like a weird thing. I I think maybe uh look their photography is always awesome, but I always wonder like maybe there was something about the way that it was photographed that made the dial look more three dimensional in pictures. Weirdly, whereas like it's flat sort of flattened out when you see it in person. Thought that was really cool. I liked more than I expected. I liked that new turquoise dial Daytona. I it feels kind of like, you know, just a fun Palm Beach watch or like a Miami watch or something like that. Reminds of the Daytona Beach, but like I I really like Daytona's on Oyster Flex and I don't know that I would buy it, but we saw somebody else walk in wearing it today and and it looked amazing. It looked amazing on her and and that that person is was a woman and it just looked awesome. It really cool. I think you know it's an interesting time for Rolex when they do something that dramatic that obviously the rest of the releases are not going to be as dramatic or whatever. I mean we they did eight new Daytona's eight eight new Daytona dials this year um but a lot of them were things that they did before variations on things that they did before. It's also just they understand that they've got one piece that's gonna grab all the attention. And not only for them but for the rest of Watchers and Wonders, that's the thing. Even if you broke an accuracy record or made the most complicated watch in the world or anything else that we've seen, the fact that Rolex did something that massive just shows how hard it is to compete with them on a on a market and in terms of attention that they get. So it's it's funny you mentioned that James and I were in Geneva about a month and a half ago and we were sitting with the CEO and the C MO of a international brand. And they were like, you know, what what's your advice for watches of wonders? And we were like, don't launch anything on the first day. Yeah. Because it's real life day. Like it should be an international holiday. It's Rolex Day. And we said, like, look, like we can show you the numbers. Like we do publish everything basically the same time. Uh Rolex actually usually comes a little bit later than everybody else. And yet the first day of Watches and Wonders is just dominated by Rolex. Like it just is. And that's not any judgment on any other brand or on the world at large. It just it just is that way. Brands don't want to hear it, unfortunately. And uh like some some are some are good at it and some I understand. They're really proud of what they're doing and it's just not not the most helpful thing for them. If we're trying to help tell their stories about things that are interesting and want to celebrate that stuff, like it's it's no slight against them if they run on day two. We're helping them get more eyeballs because they're not competing with something that is just naturally going to get more clicks. But this year I think was even more bonus. From this year, what are you buying? You know, money aside, like somebody's just gonna hand it to you. The one I felt the most about was the 1908 on the bracelet. Yellow gold bracelet, the C Mode bracelet. Yep, it's the weight and the fineness of the bracelet, for what for lack of a better term. Ye yeah,ah. The bracelet is incredible. It's incredible. And and and as somebody pointed out, the idea that it's not actually fixed to the case, the end lengths are basically curved end lengths. That's a that's a vintage watch. I mean somebody that that designed that watch was you know really looking to appeal to people that like a 1940s gay frare flat like or a straight link bracelet and that is a killer bracelet. I'm with you on that. I mean the GMT that's the the most positive I felt about the modern six digit GMTs, which I find they're quite shiny and yeah, they're big. I'm a sucker for a 16, 7, 10. I love the solid gold from a previous year. Yep. Um but I think that that with the the green dial really does something. And I think it's just the the a little bit less shiny, which which kind of speaks to me. Yeah, the the other two the other one for me, and this this is one of those things that I'll I'll happily admit here is even though the John Mayer Daytona was coined on a video that I was hosting on a platform that I founded, I don't own a John Mayer Daytona. You stole the watch that I was gonna Sorry Mark. And uh I feel like that happens a lot with us. Uh and I was in London recently and I almost bought one certified pre-owned and then I saw this watch and I was like, oh my god, they brought it back for me to buy, basically. And so I guess I would take that because I feel like I need a John Mayer watch in my life, you know? I think for me, as much as the green GMT seems like the perfect thing, everyone knows in the company I love green dials, literally anytime there's a green dial, I'm choosing that one. You didn't? No, I'm not wearing an Obergun suit today. No, I think for me, the silent killer though is the rose gold, sorry, Ever Rose GMT with the tiger iron dial. Oh yeah. Sick. I mean it's one stone dial with three minerals inside. It's red jasper, hematite, as well as tiger's eye. And just like you, I mean we all saw it. It's just this really weird take on a GMT master that's sort of opulent without being gem set. Um and I think it's just kind of perfect. So for me it's like, you know, if there's one chance to do it, I would that would be the one that pick. I was gonna pick the John Mayer, especially as a Green Bay Packers fan that doesn't have a Packers relay to watch, and it's like with the watch a I need a pack uh that's that's the real justification there to spend that much money. Um I'm gonna pick something just based on pictures alone that we didn't get to see Sapphire Daytona. Sure. After the after the Ruby Daytona, which I've gotten to see in person, and I guess like the rumor is maybe like twenty of those or something. They did the same thing with with blue gemset wild like a modern soda light sort of thing. Yeah, but like black dial with with the baguette bezel and look, if I can't have the John Mayer, I guess I'll go that way. There you go. I mean your watch to be fair. I think it's like several times more expensive. So you went. Nobody said we had to pay for him. Agree. Zach I said you didn't pay for them. Money no object. That's Rolex. Obviously, there's a ton of coverage on the site. If there's something more you want, give us a day or two. My guess is we'll get it up there as well. So I think the other one that we saw, which is after the recording yesterday, is Tudor. And you know, I think at this point, if you've been on the site or really any site uh covering watches, you you'd know about the releases. Um, you know, I'm a Pelgos nerd, as is Tantan. And to see the ultra, it's a direction I just didn't expect because we've had years of them going down in case size. And then all of a sudden we have multiple coming in at 43, the new fifth uh sixty-eight uh BB, and then this uh the um the Pelagos Ultra. And yep, I uh Tantan, what do you think of the Ultra once you got to see it? Oh I mean so James and I have disagreed on as much as we are both Pelagos nerds, I think one of the biggest things we disagree on is sort of which one appeals to us most. Right. For me, it's the original design of the Heligos 42, that sort of weird tutor, like unashamedly modern. Exactly, the unashamedly modern tutor design language. For you, I know it's the Pelagos 39 language, like that perfect wearing um case shape and so for me i think i love the pelegos ultra because it kind of feels like the best of both worlds where you have a lot of what made the original design great um and one of the big things that i didn't like on the 39 is that sort of radially brushed ceramic bezel. I love that sort of shine air dial. Great true titanium with matte black ceramic and like these blocky arrow numerals and snow flick hands. That's like perfect. Yeah. And with the ultra bigger hands, bigger numerals, more loom, two-color loom, which is you know notable uh uh for for Rolex and then I think it's the first time I've ever come across this by all means got fact check me on this one. Yeah I don't think I've ever seen Loom on a bracelet class before. Hundred percent. I d I've never seen that. I don't think so. So if you love the pelagos, it's basically the same thing. They've integrated the two stage sort of pseudo T fit thing. Yep. Where you used to have a little gauge to kind of get the the extension on the springs. Now they've painted the little marker in loom and I was like I hit it with my camera flash and it's like it glows well enough to see it. I don't know. Do I need that? No need any of this. It's freaking cool though. I mean, also why not? You know, like I think there's uh the idea that the Pelagos when it first came out was crazy because it was basically a $4,000 500 meter diver that was essentially technically speaking a sea dweller. You know, it was a competitor for a lot a lot less. Antitanium and in titanium exactly way before Rolex ever did it. Wait, I mean and and it was and it was when the brand was in the mode of really leaning into Black Bay which is almost the opposite of a peligos. Exactly. So you ended up with these sort of two camps and then we got blue and LHD and FXDs and thirty nines and now we've got a lingies and carbons and and you know the line's quite a bit bigger than you read. Can I just say that not too many people would say that a pelagos is almost the opposite of a black bay? You don't think it is? Like in terms of the spectrum of a dive watch? You're talking within the confines of dive watch. Like they they serve the exact same purpose. Well they did the same thing, but like to ninety nine point nine percent of humanity. Well, to me they're like two different ends of the same spectrum. I maybe that's a better way to say it. But you're a tutor hit. Like you you love tutors. They do. Right. So especially the pelicos. I would agree with you. No. Um but the idea of just like throwing everything and the kitchen sink into one watch, this was awesome. And it wears thinner. It wears the if you like the if you can wear the forty two, you'll be happy. It's a little thinner. I think it would be a good moment where it doesn't do much. I think we've been seeing this the last couple of years and I maybe even mo like most like a moment switched with the monochrome last year, the black wave monochrome, but they this is the year that strikes me the most that tutors like, oh, we have the enthusiast audience. We've had them for a while. Like let's fill out the commercial product for a wider variety. I mean I think that was it's pretty much the justification for the sixty-eight, which I don't necessarily personally get. I would love to see the metrics of like how many people are gonna buy that that and you know, wish there was a way to find out how many people are gonna buy that that wouldn't have bought the monochrome. Yeah. But they see uh a market for that and the larger watches whether it's the Pelegos or the 68. Yeah. Um I think the the Burgundy Black Bay 58 is really interesting and again I picked very niche. But um I remember going to tutor my first time to the headquarters and uh somebody pulled out for us the uh the prototype for that wash, which they have on display, which is really cool. It was a 1990s idea to make a sub with a you know a sunburst red dial and red bezel and they made one and that's it. And then when they brought back the black bay line, they didn't want to go all the way. I guess I talked to the designer and he said it wasn't the right time to go all the way for that, but we could do a bezel. And then okay, we were starting to feel confident. We're we did that bezel a couple times. We did a blue blue dial and a blue, you know, bezel and and eventually they're like, all right, full circle bring it all back around now is the time for this and again it's like well we have pretty much everything else now we can kind of experiment a little bit I'll be curious to see how successful some of those experiments are but yeah, you know, they still have the core enthusiast products. Yeah, I I think that's just it. I think and and and I'll kinda echo probably something that I said last year on this podcast is I love Tudor and if if if anybody ever says I wear a modern watch more than I wear my blackbeck fifty eight, they're lying. My bad is truly my favorite most worn watch every day of my life, truly. That case is perfect. Having said that, what I missed about last year and this year is like the weird and wonderful. And I think if you look at what what I've always loved about Tudor after the Black Bay 58, which again is my my favorite modern tutor, is these these weird offshoots, right? Like we were at Tudor not not too long ago here in Geneva, and we saw a solid gold black bay, we saw ceramic black bay, we saw a sterling silver black bay, we saw a what else? Just the P01. P01. It was yeah, as we said, Pelagos first and titanium. They they have done these like pretty wonky in a good way. Yeah. Weird ball oddballs. And it's like to come from the the family Rolex and do these weird things is really fun and charming for a guy like me who sees so many goddamn watches, you know. And so this year I was like, okay, this is just all conventional. It's all yeah, and I'm just like, all right, like I get it. And I think you know, for guys like you, like it fills out the collection really, really well. But there's nothing that gets me that excited from this year. I like the white dial pro. That'd be the one for me, just because that feels you know slightly different. A 54 probably would be the one from last year or the year before. But I love it when they do like a sterling silver case or something. I kinda wonder if like the last couple of years we've seen Rolex pick up the mantle of like doing some crazy stuff. Like really surprising the celebration, the puzzle dial, these kinds of things. Like I wonder if that kind of changes any of the calculus for for Tutor, because like I guess it does. Yeah. Now they're not the only crazy one in the PAM. Well, yeah. I mean I mean when when Tutor' dosing all that crazy stuff that I just mentioned, like Rolex was a hyper conservative brand in every way. Now they're leaking washes on ambassadors. Yep. Right? They're doing all the things that you just mentioned. It they're still very conservative, but you know, it really it really does feel like oh that mantle has been taken. Playbook has changed in the last year. Playbook has really changed. For sure. Special thanks again to our partners at UBS for their support of Hodinki Radio. Last October, Hodinki and UBS brought together some of the most influential personalities and brands in the industry to celebrate all things watches. This year we're partnering again with expanded events across the U.S. in addition to our fall House of Craft in New York. Stay tuned to Hodinky for updates on these events and other projects with our friends at UBS. Now, back to the show. Hodinky Radio at Watches and Wonders 2025. My name is James Stacey. I'm joined today by my colleague Andy Hoffman and a very special guest, the CEO of Watches and Wonders Geneva Foundation, Matthew Umara. How |
| Matthew Umara | are you? Hello. I'm very good. Thank you. We opened the the salon. Watch the Mondor Geneva twenty twenty-five is ready. It opened yesterday and very happy to have you here. Welcome to Watch the Mondor G |
| James Stacey | eneva. Thank you so much for having us. Why don't you give us a little bit of a background on the show, how it's kind of um transitioned from SIHH. There'll definitely be people in the audience who don't remember that era. And then there's lots that were there, right? Like us and that sort of thing. So uh how has the show been and and how's it kind of evolved in the last couple of years? And then I have some |
| Matthew Umara | more Yeah. No, uh sure the the SH the first edition was in nineteen ninety one with five brands. Uh just five. Five, yeah. We are 60 uh today, so you can see the the evolution. A big change was uh twenty twenty-one with the arrival of Alex, Tudor, Chopin, Chanel Brands who decided to join the Watch Thunder Geneva event after two online editions 2020 and 2021. It was 2022 as a first uh physical gathering uh we with all those brands. Um we were 48 brands in 2023, 54 last year and 60 this year with uh seven new brands with the arrival of uh Bulgarian six independent brands and a lot of content, a lot of animation, personalized and uh handmade uh experiences for the for the guests. Uh the four first days will be uh professional and clients, press, retailers, and three days uh open to the public. |
| James Stacey | Right. And how how were the tickets uh for that? I know I I checked on the site a few not that long ago because a friend wrote me and asked if they should go and I said you should you should definitely go. And they said, Oh, there's no tickets for the day. So I think it's quite popular |
| Matthew Umara | . Yeah, uh very popular. Last year we had nineteen thousand uh and trying to nineteen thousand tickets. Yeah, we were sold out before the opening. Uh same trend this year. So yeah, for people who want to join, uh it's uh almost sold out Saturday. Uh a few tickets left for Sunday and Monday. So yeah, uh go on the platform, make your program, you can see the different session organized by the brands. We have never never been so much content, uh different experiences uh inside the booth, encounter with the with the watchmakers, uh workshops, conferences, guided tours to explore the secret of the brands and the maison. And also a very nice program this week in the city of Geneva with the watchmaking village and the boutiques animation. So a very nice uh program all week long. Abs |
| James Stacey | olutely. And I I think what anyone listening would understand at this point is there's a lot going on. Yeah. This is a it's a maximalist take to a what's essentially a a very special interesting expression of a trade show. And I I'm curious, just some baseline questions. How many people come through this building while the show's open |
| Matthew Umara | ? So last year we had 49,000 visitors during the week. We expect this year to be again a record edition uh because we had a lot of registration yesterday already plus uh 10 person attendance first day so yeah definitely uh watch under 2025 How do you keep the people who are here happy? Keep them well fed, hydrated. Um tell us about how many meals, how many drinks you're serving, and how do you staff members? How many staff members? It's a big organization now. The the Watch the Norgyba Foundation works throughout the year hand in hand with the exhibiting brands to um build the best meeting platform specific for this industry. There's a lot of coordination. Of course, the operation it's two months set up. We started here in in Palaispo beginning of February, to be ready and open on on April 1st. Just to give you some numbers, it's almost 4,000 steps to walk around the salon. So you need to have good shows when you come to watch the Thunder Diva. We had 2,000 uh people working during during the setup. Now it's more or less six thousand staff, uh, hospitality, security, F and B, because very important to keep the level of service when you come to watch on this, it's an experience, an immersive experience in the world of watchmaking. So everything needs to be perfect, like the brat on your wrist. Absolutely. And what do you say? I mean, that you've grown the number of |
| James Stacey | brands each year. Um, what do you say to brands when you're telling them why they should join? And who what kind of brands do you want to join? Are there |
| Matthew Umara | any parts of the industry that you don't have to know the um Watch London is open to all to all brands interesting in joining. Of course it's the brands decision uh to come at Watch Zonder Geneva. Um it's uh teamwork project. Uh when you come to Watch Zoldars, you you talk about watchmaking. Our mission is to promote watchmaking all around the world. We have the ambition to create new passions, new vocation in the industry. And that's why also we the the youth is uh the guest of honor this year and a lot of animation dedicated to them in the salon and in the city with the watchmaking professions that are on the spotlight all week long. Fantasti |
| James Stacey | c. Now I'm curious, uh uh are the audience will be upset if I don't ask. I see you've got a cardio on the wrist. How do you decide what brand you wear what day? I I'm sure you wake up in the morning and you've got six every day? Yeah, of |
| Matthew Umara | course. The salon is not uh last not sixty days unfortunately. Uh but I I have the chance to be uh in the middle of all those uh beautiful brands and uh lucky uh that I have uh several uh nice watches uh that uh I I like to wear uh according to the suit. Uh it depends uh on my style of the day very much. And can you talk about |
| James Stacey | the the structure in terms of the brands that are you know part of the founding members and you've had new brands uh join |
| Matthew Umara | and how that's evolving? Aaron Powell So the Watch on Lord Inova Foundation uh was created in twenty twenty two by the initiative of Rolex Richemont and Patek Philippe. Newcomers uh last year in the foundation board with Chanel Hermes and LVMH, which uh is a guarantee of continuity and shows a commitment to the future of this uh event. We have 60 brands participating at this show. So we also have exhibiting committees where we take the decision, the operational decision of the show. And yeah, happy to have those very nice players in the industry willing to to work together to make watchmaking shine. And your goal is to have more? It's definitely open. So yes, we we talk with the entire industry and brands who would like to join. There are still some available space. Not a lot, but we still have some space here and in in Palexpo for them. |
| James Stacey | Very good. And I I'm curious beyond just the brands, I think if you walk around the show, you mentioned it's at least four thousand steps, so you have some time. Uh I saw a YouTube hub, there's the lab. There's there's a lot more than just sort of spaces devoted to the brands. Yeah. Any of that you find specifically exciting as far as this year's |
| Matthew Umara | editions? Uh the Longitude Zero exhibition uh must be seen this year. Uh an exhibition presented by the Geneva photographer Fred Merz. Um will take uh visitors uh it's a journey along the Greenwich meridian. Uh very nice to see. It's a photo exhibition and it's part of the wonders of watches and wonders because definitely we want the visitors to experiment watchmaking differently on the booth, of course, but also in the lab, in the exhibition, and in the city of Geneva. And what role does the government, uh, whether it be local or uh cantonal or federal, here play in uh in the show and in the promotion of watchmaking in general in Switzerland? Uh we are lucky to to have very good relationship with the city uh and the state of Geneva, all the local partners, the hotels, watch on those represent more than forty thousand overnight stays during the entire period. So I'm sorry, say that number one more time. Forty thousand uh hotel rooms. Uh the night bottle.. Yeah Oh hotel rooms during the period centralized by our team. Yeah. Uh to optimize the state. between the brands but also with the city and uh and the local partners. Yeah we it today watch under Geneva is the largest event in Geneva. And yeah during that week uh the entire world will have eyes on Geneva as the watchmaking destination and capital of time |
| James Stacey | . Amazing. Well look, you're a very busy guy. The show's incredible. Uh congratulations on adding new brands and 40,000 hotel rooms. That number is going to be bouncing around in my brain for a while. That's very impressive. The logistics of this I find very fascinating. We've talked about it in past years as well. But thank you so much for coming on the show. And uh, anyone who's watching, if you want to learn more, hit the show notes. We'll have all the links and all that kind of stuff and you can dig in deeper. But uh, thank you so much I think we have to talk Formula One, right? Yeah, we just came from Tag. Yeah, we just came from Tag. We saw all nine of the new sort of Formula One colors and this new revival of the 1986 design. Yeah. Um I think the most notable thing obviously is Aquaracer got the Soldograph movement a few years a And now we have uh Formula One with Solograph, right? So it's it's obviously, you know, and I think this ties into a trend that Ben, you said yesterday on the podcast, which is that I think a lot of brands this year are doing what you would you said as solid commercial stuff, right? And that's I think ties into what you said about Tudor as well. Um Formula Ones are designed to sell, right? They're cashing in on a pocket of nostalgia that a lot of people have. They serve as, you know, and we can talk about pricing in a little bit because I think that's where most people have a little bit of hesitancy over the sort of two thousand dollar around uh price point. But price aside, I think this is essentially the most, I think, significant Formula One merchandise that you can get. Right? This is instead of buying a cap, you know, or a sweatshirt at a Formula One. Ferrari Polo. Exactly. Instead of that at a Grand Prix, you might be buying these, right? And for the people that don't know, they're tying each individual release to different Grand Prix. So you know, you know, Mexico will have one, Austin will probably have one, Miami, um, Singapore, all that. And so they're they're pacing this out in a strategy. And and as we were talking to tag, I know they they also kind of alluded that um it is also conveniently you know tied to production. It helps um them space out kind of producing so many models. Like sure a ton of the limited editions are 3,000 pieces. So it's not it's not a small production. But you know, this is Formula One. It's the right time to do it. It's their moon swatch, right? It's as Tag Hoyer as I don't think it is. You don't think it is? No. Okay, let's talk about that. Because I think most people dismiss it and this is where the pricing conversation comes. Yeah, sure. Because I think most people look at it and they're like, Well, this is Tagsmoon Swatch, so why am I paying two thousand dollars for something that's a good one which for the record I disagree with because there's a lot more nuance in that conversation, right? I I didn't want to get into the conversation until we had a chance to see the watches. And if you pick those up, if you've had any experience with tag, what we'll call the entry point for tag, call it a three thousand dollar Aquarazer, give or take, twenty five hundred dollar aqua racer. It's the same.. Yep. Completely So the pricing isn't wild. It's quartz. You're either gonna love quartz, you don't. If you guys know my taste, I adore quartz. But my opinion is always if you're going to go with a quartz watch, get a good quartz. Get one that's very accurate or solar or add something more than just it's inexpensive and runs on a battery. This one, the battery lasts quite a long time. Uh for me, the product has to feel like the old Formula One, but it has to work today, and I think they nailed those two things. And I was afraid too. Because when they saw I I'm usually when it comes to a modern revival, I'm like, okay, that's fine. Increase the case size a little bit. I get it. It's a little bit bigger, but the size is still small. It still wears small. Um and it's because it's shrouded lots. Great. Bracelet's good. Um dials are not a moon swatch quality dial. This is a applied numeral. Yes. Uh lots of color. Uh they're nicely made. I I don't know. I we experience a lot of watches. Uh I've I feel I'm probably a borderline of specialist with watches under five thousand dollars. There's nothing about this watch that feels out of place. Correct. Except that we have the context of Omega, a brand that makes amazing ten thousand dollar watches. Yeah. Partnering with a a translation layer swatch and and and making this thing and and I think if tag had partnered with a brand that operated at the three hundred dollar price point I might have a different expectation but they made a tag and that's what it is. And I think I dig it. I like I'm very I'm s seriously considering getting I love that steel cream red. I mean we we've already talked about it right the minute we try to I would wear that all the time. The green one for me is is the winner on the bracelet. Um something about the sandblasted metal all over is just awesome. But I think it's also interesting because I just spent a few days at Swatch as well, right? Looking at the system 51 factory and and you know seeing how all that's made and you know and Swatch gets uh should get all the credit for making a hundred percent Swiss made watch, you know, automatic at that price point. Absolutely. And it but they're still made very differently. You know, they they're proud of sort of the I w I don't want to say shortcuts that because that puts it in the negative light, but a lot of the compromises you have to work with to get it to that price point. You have to be ingenious in that way. And And I don't think they would suit a tank. Exactly. They suit swatch. It's made very differently if you look at a Formula One. And I think that's what hopefully people can get their hands on them. Hopefully they'll understand. I mean the Kith ones were priced exactly pretty much the same, right? I think a little bit less. A little bit less, yeah. Seventeen fifty, something like that we're talking for those who are yeah, exactly. Not not the solar graph and we're like nineteen fifty about two thousand. Yeah. Mark, how did it hit you? Uh I think I think they were they were fine. I mean I still probably would go in search of a vintage one just because there Well there's a similarity there that like the appeal is very simple. Like what? Um I don't know. Like looking at the the core collection of that cream dial, like I shot two of them next to each other as vintage in the new. The other one is like a little more off. It's it's the it's the luminous like dial looking situation. I there I don't know. It's pretty charming, but I can't fault anybody that goes that direction. No, no. Can I do a severe shift in topic real quick? Because I think it's kind of funny that we went straight to Formula One, which is yes, it's a consumer product. Yeah, it's a big moment and people are people are uh you got another big moment in mind? Yeah, I uh I think I know where this is going on. One uh Grand Seiko most accurate mechanical watch in the world plus minus tw uh 20 seconds for their movement really cool big moment I think we're gonna see that play out over time um maybe maybe we'll finally get some more like approachable size divers and stuff like that with a smaller movement overall but uh most complicated wristwatch in the world yeah like yeah yeah good point mark you did it again and you saw it I saw it two in two in a row I mean like amazing Berkeley Grandcomp, uh last year, most complicated watch period in the world, which like people mention the size. I mean, it m weighed I think nearly two pounds and it was massive and it's just like, you know, yeah, it's a it's a watch. People ask like how is that not a clock? Okay. I tried finding a definition for clock versus watch. Like there's no dividing line technically, so like you know, at at some point, yeah, what are we all talking about? But anyway, wristwatch that is 45 millimeters by 14.99 millimeters with 41 complications. Yeah. Which is like a half millimeter bigger than the eternal calendar and thickness or something like that. And was it it's it's they let us wear it? We couldn't touch the Berkeley last year. We got to wear it. We got to real watch it. Got to see it. Move the hand I just I looked at it. They set it down and the time was set to something that like blocked and I was like, Can I set the hands? Yeah. Whatever. So it works.. Yeah Yeah. Just to be clear, if you if you ever have the experience of going to one of these meetings, especially when you're talking about a watch that has two two digits worth of complications, doesn't have to be 40. They don't typically want you to touch it much of it or or put a fingerprint on it or or definitely you pull the crown and start changing settings or chim I mean like this is something I usually a man comes in a suit with gloves and chimes for you the chimer than the chimer. Yeah. It's uh I I mean that was absolutely wild. I wish I had more time to like do more. Great story on the site if you want to dig in. It was I mean it was a really special experience and I think like look until somebody else I mean they beat the record by five complications which is not insignificant and like until somebody else does that. But not only did they do it once and it one it wasn't a commission. They just said to one of their watchmakers, spend the next eight years making the most complicated thing that you can that's also wearable. That was like the re wearable is important. Yeah. I mean 'cause remarkable yeah. And it and it just looks like any other watch. Somebody said, Oh, it's little slabsided. It's like, okay, it's the most complicated watch in the world. It's fifteen millimeters thick. Like what are we talking about here? Like I'm sure you know. But you know, the to do that and give somebody the the time. I mean if you figure you have a 40 year career that's you know a f a fifth of your career is spent on one thing it's it that's that's super cool. And then just to be able to handle that, see that, and then be told, oh yeah, if people come to us, I mean we're gonna sell this one, but if people come to us and they want another one, they want a different dial or something, we'll do this. This is Le Cabinautier, this is what we do. So if another person wants one or two or three more people come yeah they'll do them yeah how much how much do these cost asking for so they so so they didn't say anything on pricing um I'm kind of curious your guess is uh I've heard I've heard rumors and these really are rumors that it'd be about four million. Okay. I was thinking three yeah, three to four and I mean I mean if we split it four ways, I think Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. I think we could do that. Yeah, I I I think I think first of all It's a business right up I think. Yeah, yeah. First things first, I think Mark won this podcast because he's totally right. Like the fact that like we're talking about Formula One and then land dwellers and and and Tudor we're not talking about a the Grand Seco, I'm not saying the Grand Seiko thinging be the most accurate mechanical watch is twenty plus or minus twenty seconds a year. A year a year. And their most their next most accurate watch before that, plus minus fifteen seconds per month. Right. I don't know that that was the record overall, but that was their most ac and then twenty a year. Yeah. No that that's a big deal. And and and very, very right with the basharon thing. I think i you know, in a different decade, if it's for the eighties or even the nineties, I think it's like that w no matter what role like you said, that would be the talking point of the enthusiast world. It just should be a good idea. like this is a deep cut but the James Schultz wristwatch which was the first ever perpetual calendar minute repeating chronograph was made I believe in the 30s and it was still written about in Time magazine I think in the 1950s so like that's the level that we're talking about here now we're going into forty one complications and it's just like yeah land dweller and it's and land dweller is a big thing for the industry and for what it means for Rolex but um but it's just kind of give give give bash around their dude for sure. You can't say that we don't have some variety. Two thousand dollar tag solar all the way up to uh superfluously thin forty one complication wrist branches. Yeah. Uh have we talked about Cartier yet? Uh no we haven't. Probably should, right? Tank Aguche? I think we got a little time left. Yeah. Tank Aguchet is another show stealer, I think. I mean, for the vintage lovers and and that's I will say still not legible if your eyes are not absolutely perfect. It was better than I thought. But it was it's still pretty good and it's fun and like okay, so you have to look a little bit longer, but it's it's my I would argue the coolest tank that's ever been made and like the fact that they did it pretty much n damn near original this time instead of the crown at I was gonna three o'clock now the crown's back at twelve and it's relatively easy to actually set which is another important thing. Now what's the what's the movement in that? So I can't remember the caliber number, but it's they developed a caliber that for the jump hour, apparently, is is what my understanding of the messaging was when I wrote about it. Um and it's only the whole watch is only six millimeters thick. So a jump hour, I mean, uh yes, other people have done jump hours recently. There's a big difference between that that fits in that tank size and is six millimeters thick and you know, other jump hours to me. Yeah, no, I I I loved it. I saw the my favorite was the yellow gold. I mean the yellow gold mindset as you know Mark. Uh it's got a little green. It does a little we can share. Yeah perfect. Um yeah really really beautiful thing for sure. So what do you guys like think about the oblique? Is it too weird? It's not it's not too weird. Uh I just prefer the traditional uh shape. I think that'd be my that'd be my take as well. But the yellow gold just wow, three for three. It's cool. What about you? Just a cool thing. There's nothing like the easiest way to say it. is This this is gonna get me made fun of, I know, especially by Ben. But when I when I before we knew what the pricing was, I texted my guy in in New York and I got a guy? I I got a guy that I I bother, I don't know that I'm I'm helpful to him in any way. But uh I I texted him somebody at Cartier in New York and I said, you know, if there's a list forming, maybe you know someday on the platinum. And then I heard that the price is rumored around I think 50 euro, 50,000 euro and I was like, if there's a list, can you take me off it for the platinum? Uh and he's like, yeah, no problem. Gotcha. But uh I I really like the original and the oblique is interesting, but as Rich pointed out to me, it's better if you're wearing watches in the right hand 'cause the way that the font is twisted, uh you're upside down on the left hand with that turn, you have to like distort your body to be able to see it. Yeah. Well there you go. That's day two, body distortion mas,s complications, land dwellers, and everything else. It's watches and wonders. Yeah, loom on a bracelet. That's big. We've got a lot of variety. There's a ton of stuff on the site. Even as you're watching this, there will be more stuff minutes later. So please enjoy. Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you tomorrow for day three from watches and wonders |