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A Look Ahead To 2025 - Part I with Malaika & TanTan

Published on Fri, 20 Dec 2024 18:00:00 +0000

And find out more details on Bruichladdich's giveaway here: www.mdmgames.com/bruichladdichwatch

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host James Stacy is joined by editor Tantan Wang and style editor Malika Crawford to discuss their predictions and hopes for the watch industry in 2025. The conversation explores whether trends from 2024, such as the movement toward smaller watch sizes, will continue or evolve into a broader plurality of tastes and options.

The team examines several brands poised for success or reinvention in 2025. They identify Omega as a brand on a strong trajectory, praising its ability to blend modern design with vintage cues. JLC (Jaeger-LeCoultre) emerges as a focal point of discussion, with the hosts debating how the brand could better position itself in the competitive \(5,000-\)15,000 market segment. They suggest JLC needs more fun, sporty offerings and better answers to compete with brands like Omega and Tudor, while maintaining its understated elegance and watchmaking heritage.

The conversation also touches on independent watchmakers like MB&F, the potential for new leadership at brands like Hublot and JLC to reshape their identities, and specific product wishes such as a 40mm Grand Seiko diver and a standard 40mm Blancpain Fifty Fathoms. The hosts discuss the success of accessible luxury collaborations like the Swatch x Blancpain Scuba Fifty, though they note it hasn't achieved the ubiquity of the MoonSwatch. They conclude with optimism about 2025, emphasizing that brands continuing to make products specifically for their core audiences should result in exciting releases across all price points.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacy Welcome back to another episode of Hodinki Radio. Today's episode of the show is sponsored by our friends at Brooklatty, the award-winning whiskey from Isla, who we have partnered with here in Hodinky for the last couple of years. Stay tuned for an update later in the show on what we're up to this season. Hello and welcome to another episode of Hodinky Radio. My name is James Stacy. We are continuing our uh December sort of recap of the year, but in for these episodes, and we have another one, episode four, uh, for this monthly series. We're also going to be full looking forward to twenty twenty-five. So today I'm joined again by editor Tantan Wang and style editor Malika Crawford. How we doing, folks? Doing good. Good. And we're gonna be talking all about 2025, which I'm I'm pretty pumped about. You know, we we opened the the previous, you know, the the episode looking back at 2024 and some of our favorite watches and that sort of thing. We opened that with sort of a a recap of just how like this time of year is kind of fun because you look back on the year and and re-remember things and revisit great moments and and that sort of thing. But the other side is you get to do have these little conversations and things about what you hope next year will be like, what you might want to be doing, whether it's professionally, what you're hoping to see from certain brands and all that sort of thing. And of course, we are now officially in the cycle for Watches and Wonders 2025, which is April 1st. Mark your calendars. Um it I think it's going to be a pretty exciting year. Uh, but certainly all of that planning starts in December and January. So it's it's uh definitely time to start considering twenty twenty-five. And you know, I I thought I'd kick it off. Like if you were taking a look at twenty twenty four and extrapolating, what do you think we're gonna see in twenty twenty five? You know, in in the previous episode I sat in with you two, we t we kicked it off by talking about the kind of trend towards mini, whether it was uh Cartier or Langine or you know several other brands. Do we do we think that's something that's just gonna push on or is that more of a blip on the radar? I
Malika Crawford really don't know. I think it's gonna be more like a broadening of options and tastes, which is what I think mini signals. And I think mini is just one of those things that makes a lot of noise on social media, but doesn't really have that much impact in the wider world. Um, so I think it's just more about like plurality of tas
James Stacy te. And like just extrapolating a little bit of what you'd said there, like do you see mini as being more of a uh like a marker for a certain type of core enthusiast than it is a grand commercial endeavor from any single single brand
Malika Crawford ? I don't think it's a grand commercial endeavor at all. I think it's like brands reacting to consumer kind of interest. Um, which I know I harp on about this all the time, but the watch industry does this thing where they kind of react to the customer as opposed to like creating the trends themselves. Um so I feel like the mini thing is born from an interest in vintage and then the watch brands go off and make their modern version.
James Stacy Okay. That's interesting. And I I don't I wouldn't say that I disagree. I I am curious, like you mentioned Mini being something that maybe was born out of the you know continued interest in vintage. Do you think we'll see any sort of change in pace in terms of the vintage reissue? You know, we've got whole brands that are you know actually going to be relaunching with product in the next couple of years, think like un Universal Genève. And I I think it's sort of an interesting thing because every now and then I've I've said it. I think I've said it before, like, oh I think this year we won't see more and more vintage reissues. We won't see as many, you know, dive watches that look like they were made in nineteen sixty five or something like that. But I think I c you know, I think I've been proven wrong several times, especially if we're now relaunching entire brands like uh like Universal Genev and and quite possibly others
Malika Crawford . I think we're at a um creative stalemate and I think that watch brands and even fashion brands to some degree like I think everyone's struggling to figure out like a new direction design-wise. And it's like a reflection of the times that we're living in too and the economy and what have you politics. But I also think we're at this like weird plateau stalemate phase where vintage reissue is like much easier than dreaming up sort of a new brand vision. Um, and it feels like aside from the indies, which I think Tantan could probably speak to better than I could, but I feel like there's just no which is actually why I'll take back some of the shade I was throwing at AP because they do it. They kind of do a little bit of futurism. But I feel like there's there's no it's all kind of leaning on the vintage stuff, which I think everybody sort of knows is the easy route, maybe. Ac
James Stacy tually, it's not easy, but it's the easier route. I think it's it's becoming increasingly difficult to win in that thinking. But when it wins, I think people get you think about how excited people got about the Zenith six hundred meter revival diver, the bright orange one this past year. That was a very expensive watch. I would say, not to be unfair to Zenith, probably five years too late. Still successful. People still got excited about it, got a ton of attention. Really cool watch. Not taking anything away from the product. Tan tan, I am interested. W do you think there's any brands that are like specifically poised to just do well next year? Maybe that's because they're on a run currently, maybe because they have one or two things like I especially there's some indies right now that feel like anything they do people are gonna go nuts for and I feel like that's a little bit of a different mode for the indie world for the from the last several years especially when we get into like time only stuff the Simone Bratz and the Recheprace and that sort of thing, right? 100%. Uh I
Tantan Wang mean it's a good question. I think honestly, if we talk about sort of more classic brands, a brand that I didn't think I would say going into this podcast is Omega. I know last time we sort of established that they're they've been killing it this year. And you know, even since the last time we talked, they've come out with a few things that I think are really cool. Um and I think if they go down this route, next year might be a time where they start refreshing more of their product line and you know, it might kind of define sort of this next era of Omega, which I think they're doing very well at, right? Like it's it's focusing on the modern stuff that they're good at, bringing in some vintage cues. And you know, going back to your point on vintage, I think the issue with vintage that I had, or vintage reissues, uh rather that I had for the past kind of five, six years worth it it always was vintage reissue, but not done correctly. As in my problem was always they would bring out a vintage inspired dial and then somehow the case would be you know,, gigantic. Um, and proportionally, it just didn't make sense and it didn't work with the original sort of designs that they're inspired from. Whereas stuff like the Zenith Diver, even micro brands like Nivedic Renshin, I think they keep sticking to their path because they just churn out things in the same dimensions as you know that they were made like you know 30, 40 years ago, and they just find a niche audience for that. Uh so for me, I think in that sense, maybe we'll see vintage reissue kind of pushing forward in this new way. I think people are actually finding that brands can make things in thinner sizes, smaller cases with modern movements, which was always the, I think, poor justification in the past, which was, oh, we just can't make it. That's like, you know, we don't have movements that work like that, but no, you can. Um so anyway, that was a that was a bit of a tangent. But going back to to sort of 2025. Yeah, I mean, independence to me, MBNF, I want to see what they they kind of come out with next year. Um, I don't know anything in in sort of their product pipeline, but um I think you know they've come out with a few cool things this year, um, including one that we didn't really get to cover, but you know, some great sort of artisanal handwork with those beautiful engraved dials. Um, but aside from things like that, they haven't really done anything too crazy, I think, this year. The LM one oh one is actually kind of getting uh it's been running for a while, the 2021 editions. I know, James, you did a really cool review on that, you know, when it came out, but Oh, when it had all three medals, yeah. Yeah. That was, I mean, that's sick. Like to me, after I guess like three, four years, maybe it's time to see another dial color. That's what I would love to see. I'm biased, but oh my God, a green LM101. I think that would sort of be right in that that'd do it for you. Apex for me. Yeah, it's where it's it's refreshing enough. It's objectively a pretty conservative, safe move, uh, given you know everything around. Um, but it would still feel refreshing. I mean, uh brands just I think are still scared. I think brands are realizing they're coming to a point where they need to make money, right? Like sometimes when we discuss this stuff, I think we forget that watch brands are sure they're watchmakers, they're designers, they're creatives, but they're still businesses at the end of the day. Um, and so how do these people make money? And I think what I would like to see is actually no cohesive strategy, right? Like I'd like to see each brand figure out for themselves what they do best, double down on that, um, and go from there, which easier said than done, I know
James Stacy . Yeah, sure. And Malika, I'm I'm curious to kind of a similar question, like what what brands are you sort of excited to see what they come out with? What brands still like hold actively hold your attention? Um I think currently uh not to be so predictable, but probably Cartier. Sure. Um I mean they had a great year last year. I think they need to do the same thing again to keep this pace going.
Malika Crawford I think though, to Tantan's point, the brands who sort of this is like the most regurgitated line in sort of watch media, but the brands like Rolex who make incremental change to their design obviously can just stay successful throughout any sort of dip in in anything because it's like a classic product. So I think you have to give props to the brands who try new things and don't stay within that sort of slightly predictable framework. So who would you put in that camp? Like an Airmez? Yeah. Parmiz. Yeah, you know, Parmigiani is a brand I have not yet explored in great depth and I would like to beautiful stuff. I think that's something I sort of should look into for next year. It's a little out of my budget. But uh for just sort of sh I think they're making very beautiful and elegant product. Um and I think Cartier obviously just has so maybe because it's jewellery and a little bit more zeitgeisty and it's still very classic and refined by the way. Like when I see Cartier marketing imagery and ads, it's very uh sort of restrained and conservative. It's not splashy and like it's not fashion, but it's still a little bit more on the pulse, maybe, uh, than than some of the Swiss offerings uh in the watch landscape. I think I just also I am paying attention to RM in the ladies space. Ladies. Uh they haven't really been doing much. I just wonder though like the watch market is kind of dictating maybe the output of these brands and I always pay attention to what's going on at LVMH to sort of predict how much money anybody has. Um and I was listening to a podcast that was talking about overall sales at LVMH being down by five percent. Okay. And what I think watch sector was down by like three or four percent, but overall, or maybe it was fashion is down five percent, which doesn't seem like a lot, but a it's kind of a big deal for L VMH, who since about 2015-2016 have experienced like significant growth in the teens. Um, so I think if you know the mothership of all holding companies is seeing a bit of a flat line or a dip that is enough to predict where marketing budgets will be next year. I'll throw out two brands
Tantan Wang that I think could not be more different from each other that I'm pretty curious about to see what they do next year. And that's gonna be JLC and Ublo. I think those are two brands where major leadership changes this year, right? Yep. JLC, new CEO. New by new I mean sort of you know a little bit of old and you know returning and and with uh Ublow Julian coming on. Um I think next year might be a good way to see where the next sort of 10 years might look like for both brands, right? And I think I think JLC's catalog has struggled a little bit. Um I mean they've they're doing amazing things, but I think overall to generalize a little bit their catalog is pretty boring. Um and I think I would like to see sort of a little more energy put into sort of invigorating a lot of the the sort of sidelines um that they they''veve kind of not given some love to in the past. Um and same with Ublot. Like I think, you know, I I got to chat with Julian a little bit a few weeks ago and I know he he kind of wants to pull more attention towards movements towards watchmaking in addition to what they already do wall and materials. So maybe this is like a rebirth for both brands
Malika Crawford . I think that's actually right on the money about those two brands. I do think that Hublot should continue to lean into its like wild identity. Um, because I think that's what makes the brand successful. If they start relying on, you know displaying elegant watchmaking and talking about movements any more than they do. I'm not sure that's really gonna resonate with their consumer because it it and's also the aniv twenty fifth anniversary of Big Bang. So I'm sure that I hope it's a big year for them. I hope that they lean into their wild side. They don't seem to
James Stacy be discouraged of their wild side these days. No. They're just they're holding the course really well. Yeah,
Tantan Wang they are. Steal someone who's buying trying to buy a reverso uh and you know have them purchase a big bang. Like that's something I think people forget all the time. It's like these are completely separate customers. They know who they're talking to and they see their PL, right? They see their revenue every year and they can make decisions based on that. And I think that's where I I sort of led a sympathetic eye towards the brand where I'm like, I see what you're doing. You know who you're talking to and like you should not be trying to get, you know, the Langa guy to to buy a big bang. That's not the same thing, right? Um so yeah. Can can I ask
Malika Crawford you both because the JLC question is constantly going on in my head, like how can they make themselves more desirable and I went to their pop-up yesterday and they had all these yeah oh exciting we must have missed each other uh and I went and I saw all these reverses, neo vintage reverses, like the QP. Uh did you see those sort of lined up when you go in? Some breakers. That's so cool. I'd never seen a lot of those vintage models before. But it got me thinking, what do people actually want from JLC? And I'd like to know what you both would like from JLC. It's a hard one
Tantan Wang . For me, what I distinctly remember, what sticks in my head, honestly, have been the sort of limited editions that they've done in the past like, let's say, six, seven years. You know, like the um all the memo Vox stuff is really, really cool, and every single time I see one of the like the deep sea alarm, um, is really really cool. And every time I see one of those, I'm like, oh man, if only that was, or something like that was in the regular catalog. You know, I think they've actually done really well with the Polaris. I like the Polaris. I think it's a little bit generic, but I still like it overall as some something that's, you know, a customer can come in. I don't want a sub, I don't want an Omega, I want something that's slightly higher end and you know, an all-around watch. And that's a great option, right? Um, but at the same time, a lot of the weirder stuff that GLC has done. GLC has such a great archive of like weird 60s, 70s designs that they could be doing. And you know, like they make the reverso, right? They're not a stranger to using iconic sort of older designs. So for me, drawing back to that catalog, bringing a little more fun, I think would be would be welcome. Like I think when I go to that boutique, the staff is wonderful. Like I've been to the Madison one a few times. Staff is wonderful, extremely knowledgeable, product looks great, but I don't ever see something that I get like very like emotionally excited about. Like, you know, other than something that's really cool when it comes to like complication or something. I, you know, nothing's really fun there. And you know, maybe then they look, they hear what I say and they're like, yeah, that's not what we're trying to do. So thank you. You know, but at the same time, I wish I see a lot of their archives and so much of it was fun. Typography was fun, case shapes were fun, dials were fun, you
James Stacy know.? Yeah And I I agree with all this. I think fun is going to be really important. I also think they need to, you know, be very mindful of the price point. Uh because to competition like from five to ten grand right now, which is you know, I think where Reverso kind of sits to start. Maybe maybe we could go from five to say fifteen, give it a ten thousand window. Uh it's just so, so, so competitive. Uh Omega's making watches that people want, especially sport watches. Uh Rolex, obviously, difficult to buy. Tudor, k depending what you want, exceedingly difficult to buy at the very base end of that price point. You know, speaking selfishly, purely from my own standpoint, like I don't know, Deep Sea Chrono was I think one of the coolest watches they ever made. And it just it was too subtle for the era. I don't think it was necessarily marketed correctly. I just thought it was so cool to have uh like a proper sport watch in their lineup and not to take anything away from the Polaris or in many ways the master control, both of which have sporty elements. But I don't think I think for people who love sports watches or even if you wanted to say convert someone who was a fan of mid century Rolex and and that sort of stuff into a modern JLC buyer, which should be a logical conversion. The watch making goes up a level, the you know, uh the the legacy of the brand is kind of unparalleled as the watchmaker's watchmaking brand and all this kind of stuff. But I I think that they don't have a go-to answer for a sport watch. Right? Like it they don't have their Explorer. They don't have I don't think they have their sub. And I'm not saying that JLC should be exclusively interested in combating Rolex, but I think it's difficult to hit the market at this price point and not have similar answers to customers, you know, questions about, well, I want this Rolex or I want this tutor or I want this Omega. What would be my option with uh with a a JLC. And and I think in many ways, JLC kind of like got heat checked by Paneraye for several years, where somebody wanted to spend more money than a sub or more money than a speedy, and the cool thing to buy was Paneraye. And of course Panerai almost has the inverse problem where they have very little that isn't quite sporty. Um and I I think there's there needs to be I you know I I don't think it's like bringing back the Navy SEALs line. I I don't know that people love those. I thought they were very cool, but you know, I think that that line, you know, had some had some struggles in the market. But I definitely think there's evolutions of the Polaris and the Master Control that could bring a younger, less seasoned, less ready to buy a gold a brand new gold watch or a QP sort of buyer, um, while not really alienating the folks that are buying reversos that are buying master ultra fins and stuff like that. I think there's a move to expand a little bit
Malika Crawford . I think they are such a sort of quality legacy. Yeah. You know, um they have so much history behind them, not to be cliche. And they also have this potential to be extremely desirable uh because they are quiet in that way, if they just sort of played it slightly differently in the way that a brand like The Row or like Brunello Cuccinelli is sort of understated, but the product speaks for itself and that creates lots of growth and desirability. I just don't know if the product offering is enough currently. But I don't think they need to be splashy. And I agree with you, Tan Tanks, they're a very subtle, elegant brand. I think even with sport watches, that needs to be their goal. That needs to be their goal. And I agree with Tantan. Maybe the product could be a little bit more fun, and you let the product speak for itself. Um, and that's really what drives people to it. And I have friends who are outside of watches who really know nothing, and they know what JLC is and they know what a reverso is, and I sort of see that crowd being into JLC in a big way if they just push the product that little bit further
James Stacy . Again, special thanks to our partners at Brooklady for the support of Hodinky Radio. This holiday season we've And now back to the show. Tantan, in your mind, what is a brand that is operating at this space that is bringing the fun? Is it a Zenith? Yeah
Tantan Wang , I mean Zenith has done really well this year, I think. The the triple calendar uh is just so phenomenal. Uh so so good. I mean, their sort of retro divers, their sort of reissues um have been pretty spot on. Um I think Zenith, Zenith is doing that fun. They lean into color scheme and sort of retro in a way that I think out of similar brands is done in the most tasteful way. You know, they like if you think about all their weird sort of like reissues, they've done like like turquoise, they've done bright orange, they've done red, um, but it doesn't feel overly cheesy. And that's sort of maybe the way I would love to see JLC do something, you know, it doesn't have to be everything, but it's just like one thing maybe as a surprise, as a novelty, um, going into that. I'm I'm trying to think of other people that have sort of leaned into that. I mean, honestly, maybe Grand Seiko
James Stacy . Pretty pretty continued use of color even up until like this week. Um, you know, I I think they have a very interesting brand evolution going on currently. For sure. I think
Tantan Wang I'm not sold on it yet. I think Grand Seiko does some amazing stuff. They do really cool dials, but I think sometimes they do so much that I think each creative sort of entity loses its um sort of weight, uh if that makes any sense. Uh I think like it's just so spread out. Um and you know, I I think I joke sometimes, but I actually do think it's the case where some of their dial patterns are different, but they're just rotated 90 degrees and it becomes like a new dial. Um, and you know, again, I don't I don't say that as shade to the company, but at the same time, like I think I want them to almost come out with more models that feel completely cohesive. As in, it's not just a 44 GS case, and then what dial can we put into this? And then what color can we make this dial? Like I almost want to see standalone things. Like honestly, they did that with um a lot of their Evolution 9 stuff when they when they re-released, right? You had all new cases, you had sort of the white birch was it's you know it it killed, right? It's an awesome watch. But then you start rolling out that white birch pattern to a lot of other things and it starts losing its significance. So I almost wish that Brand Seiko would, and maybe this is my my wish for everyone. It's just like maybe next year's about doing less. Maybe it's like I think someone very aptly commented last time that like, and I agree, uh, this year was a little bit of launch fatigue. And I it's the same reason why I think we all sort of glazed over some parts of the year where you know we didn't necessarily remember a lot that happened. Um there is fatigue and and maybe customers are also feeling that with their wallets. Maybe next year just do a little less. Come out with four solid things throughout the year and like focus on that, right? Give the story more time to breathe, more time to shine
James Stacy and see where that goes. Yeah, I I actually think after the response from last year, we might see the opposite this year. We might see a watch and wonders where every brand is swinging for the fence. Because I meant like if you were a brand last year that always kind of struggled to get your watch beyond the limelight of Rolex and Tutor, you kinda had an opportunity, but I don't think people were ready for it. And I don't think you just get that opportunity again and again. I mean Tutor, very strong year, I would say, you know, quietly and d definitely some people predicted it, but I don't think people noticed immediately just how successful the monochrome was going to be, the new kind of fully realized 41 millimeter black bay, uh, which you know, at least from reports that I've heard uh is almost unbiable. Uh so that I mean that's a huge win for for a brand like Tutor. It's you know I don't think it's great for consumers forever to not be able to get something, but a delay is acceptable for sure on an in-demand product. You know, going back very quickly to Grand Seiko. I I really think they need a dive watch to compete at the thirty nine forty millimeters. Yeah. The dimensions are too and I love those diebox. It's incredible. My favorite one.. Yeah, yeah The ones they make currently are amazing. They're just massive.
Tantan Wang Yeah. The the best one, in my opinion, and one that I almost bought if it wasn't for the dimension issue, the 9F quartz version, uh a few years ago with the yellow accents all over it. That thing is sick, but it's just like it's so comically big that there it's not even like a oh, you have a small wrist, you can't wear this. No, it's just kind of big objectively. Um, and so I agree with you. Man, if they shrunk that down, and even I don't care if for spring drive, I don't care about mechanical, even if you just did a smaller quartz version of that diver, I think it would be gangbusters. It would go gangbusters. Yeah, that's a weird express
James Stacy ion. I can't believe I use that. Like for me, it just it feels like the definition of low hanging fruit if I was Grant Seiko, because the SPGH two ninety one is such a cool watch, and it sits at a price point that they they make they can make a case that their watch is worth for sure. They also have all this work in super titanium and special steels and surface coating, like all stuff that works for a dive watch. Yep. Take all of that and just make it something for us that you know I want something roughly the size of my Pelegos 39 or a sub or a Seamaster, just something in that kind of conventional. Make something a little bit more conventional. 43, 44. When this watch was first designed, that made sense for sure. And I'm not saying it needs to go away as I'm sure it's commercially successful if they're still making it years later. But 38 to 40 would be it just feels like they have all the data they need from the SPB series that they did and the SLA series that they did. They they've done a bunch. They just haven't done it at Grand Seiko. They've come like right up to the to the floor with the SLA 017 and those ones, but I I would be very excited to see them make make like a an undeniable entry into a very hotly contested you know, space. Make a better Pelagos. Take a try at it
Tantan Wang . So speaking of divers, there's actually one thing that I really, really want to see is Blonc Pond make finally a standard 40 millimeter 50 fathoms in the collection. Like I think it is so long overdue. Um I I think the best blong pond ever produced uh sort of in the modern context is you know shameless plug, our limited edition 50 fathoms, the mill spec version from a few years back. It is one of the most beautifully wearable dive watches and has like a proportion that no other brand is able to do even at that specs it's just something about that like maybe the roundness of the case and that like you know the sapphire bezel and and all that but, it just looks so good and it's so comfortable on the wrist. I have a small wrist, it works well on me. A lot of people that I know that own that watch have quite large wrists, look straight on them. So it's it really is that universal thing. Maybe Bonlanc P knows something that I don't. You know, maybe they know something about the sales of their stuff. Maybe the 45mm stuff is selling too damn well, right? But I know from the enthusiast perspective, I think that would be such a piece of fan service to sort of throw out, right? Like this year we saw a lot of 42mm stuff, which was an improvement, right? And you know, I it wears nicely. It wears nicely, it looks good, you know, can't complain about that. And James, I'm I'm curious to think, maybe do you think that are just saving that for the sort of limited editions? Um, you know, they know that it's a it's a thing that will guarantee to sell it's sparse you know it's a market
James Stacy . I think they probably had a chance to do something smaller with the 70th anniversary axe and they didn't. I mean they so to be fair it was a bit smaller. It was in the 42s. It wasn't into the 40s. And I actually had to double check that to be clear. But I I I think it would be one fascinating if Grand Seiko and Blanc Pond just dropped really high-end nicely made 40 millimeter dive watches in 2025. Modern like it would it would that those two could actually change the landscape if if they went that route. I am you know I don't I don't really have a problem with the 42. Uh my thing would be if they made the 40, could they do it at a price point, like not on a bracelet, to really make a compelling alternative to like an entry level sub. Normally Blanc Pond kind of sits at one kind of rung up in terms of pricing from a submariner. Um but I think it would be fascinating to see if they could if they could stay in the four digit range, top end of the four digit range, and make something that people really wanted, a steel, simple two hundred meter, fifty fathoms, et cetera,
Tantan Wang et cetera. Maleika, what's your view on on sort of the 50 Fathoms. Is it in your eyes, do you see it as like a more interesting niche thing compared to the Samaritor, like a like a step up as an option? Or do you sort of is it a completely separate conversation?
Malika Crawford I think it's a totally separate conversation. Um but I do I think it's a cool in my view it's like a niche it's a niche product, which is funny. But like in twenty twenty four, I think it's definitely a niche corner of the market.
James Stacy I think you you definitely see them less than subs or or even l much less even watches that look like fifty fathoms watches, even from other brands, are less popular than sub
Malika Crawford mariner look-alikes from other brands as well. For sure. I feel like if we think of this sort of conventional watch category, which seems to be booming to your point about the Black Bay monochrome because it's a great watch, but it is exceedingly conventional. Um I think it's literally its best talent. Yeah. Um I suppose that's what people are going for. At what price point do you s have to sort of stop being conventional? It's a great question. I don't yeah. I don't know. Because at some point you definitely have to be competitive, which I think is difficult. Correct. I just don't think you can ever put a Blanc Pan Fifty Fathoms in the same sentence as a Rolex sub. It just The Rolex Submariner is like one of the most recognizable products, let alone watches of all time. Like you just nobody I know outside of watch enthusiasm knows what a blancin is unless they're like above the age of 50
James Stacy . For me, for me, they're they're like they're inextorably linked because of the you know the coming out the same year for sure kind of the early ex earliest expression of the dive watch, that sort of thing. But yeah, one has remained deeply competitive, deeply conventional, and owned its entire market, and that's the sub, and the Bon hasn't. And I think part of that's a pricing thing, part of it's, you know, the power of Rolex, part of it, you know, I think it's probably a a 20 part sort of scenario that caused the delta there because look you re rewind the clock that there's a there's a you know in an infinite number of universes there's one where like the doxa sub is the submariner and the Rolex one is is the niche right like these are all watches that kind of came from the same impetus, would have been worn by similar people at the time. But then fifty, sixty, seven years later, that's not the same anymore
Malika Crawford . No, I I understand your argument in that if we think about the history of the sub and the fifty fathoms and seventy years ago today the kind of yeah totally but but the delta couldn't be larger and I wonder how they sort of is there even any how do you bring that back? Like how do you I don't know. That's obviously the million dollar question.
James Stacy Yeah, I also like is is Blanc Pon in a position to really to actually want to be a watch that replaced the sub? Like do they is Blanc Pond a watch brand that's led by a dive watch? Probably not, right? They need to have a dive watch. It's definitely a big part of their thing. I I this watch was was the next era I wanted to get into for sure. Oh for sure. Oh that's not really, no.
Malika Crawford Because I don't I don't think it helps. I definitely definitely think it does. Okay, I'm interested to know your thoughts because I thought that release maybe because it lives in the shadow of Moon's watch. I don't know. But but what is that? I don'
James Stacy t I'm not sure about that. I mean, in my circles, people adore that. I love that watch. I have one, the ocean of storms, the the black one. And sort of the the circles that I keep. This was a chance for people who adore Blanc Pond but don't have fifty thousand dollars for a dive watch. Okay. Um to to check it out and and to kind of have that buzz. And I definitely have met people in the last year since since those models were released in the last two years, that like it was their first quote unquote like watch brand they thought about, researched, went out, found, bought, and love, and they have this like very strong emotional connection to it. Um, that I think, you know, maybe wouldn't be replicated if you were a deep enthusiast who'd been doing it for a decade and and you wanted to check one out. I think that context is different. But I think for somebody fresh to the market, these swatch collabs, the specifically the Omega and the Blanc Pond ones and the Speedy and the um the scuba fifty are like they're drugs. They're just they're they're your first your first taste. But for Blanc Pond there was a lot of people who bought that watch who didn't know the brand before. For sure
Malika Crawford . And I suppose that's obviously why Moon Swatch comes before, right? Because it's a little bit m better known. Uh and then you can sort of you can replicate the interest hopefully with the other collabs that come after. But I do think there is something to be said for making something accessible, which then sparks a curiosity and sort of helps people to, you know, do more research, become more actively engaged. I do celebrate that
Tantan Wang . Completely anecdotally though, I've don't get me wrong, I love this watch. I have the I bought the orange sort of no-red uh take on on this watch. I've just never seen someone not in a watch circle like wearing that in public. I see moon swatches every single day. Yeah. And I'm talking about around the world. Like last year in Italy, everyone and their grandmother was wearing a moon swatch like I'm not even joking like yeah moonswatch everywhere and like I've never I haven't seen someone like not at a watch meetup or not you know oh like oh, like uh let's talk about, you know, the new releases. Like outside of that circle, I've I haven't seen one in the public. And maybe that's just me. But like I'm curious if you guys feel that way. L
Malika Crawford ike No, I haven't seen one either. I outside of enthusiast circles I I and see
James Stacy moon swatch every day. Yeah. I I think I've seen two in the wild, like just at a restaurant or whatever, and uh and that two would be outweighted by hundreds of moon swatches that you just see on the street all summer long. Yeah. No s no sleeves in the way. I mean, you can find a moonswatch pretty quickly. Uh they're they're they're prolific. Um, but okay, so look, we've got like maybe two minutes left. What would you love to see? What what would be your personal dream brand for Swatch to collab with to make a $200 version of a watch where this would be the one where regardless of the heat, the hype, the lines, you would want one. What would it need to be? Well it's gotta be in the swatch group, so well no no, let's say let's say they branch out this is successful enough that that it's any any any brand you love. Like Tintan, is it a swatch Langa L one
Tantan Wang ? No, I think for me it's a swatch jumbo. I was just about to say that. It's a like a swatch jumbo. It's gotta be AP. A bio ceramic royal oak would be mind-melding
Malika Crawford . No, but I th why aren't people talking about that for a second? Like
James Stacy I think there's been there's like rumors. Yeah. Um uh nothing to be clear that I've ever heard that came from a credible source, just people saying kind of like what wouldn't be clear. Yeah, if they did it, they should do that one. It's the logical choice, right? Yeah. Like like a second hand. Would be amazing. No, nobody wants that. No, you don't think so? You don't think that would become like the summer watch for three months and then then nobody would want it?
Malika Crawford I don't because it has to be a sports watch. Oh, okay. Yeah. In my mind. I think it should be because I think dress watches, if you take away the sort of elegant Well a little Santos. A little Santos could be cool. What kind of spot? Bioseramic Santos. I'm sort of it's freaky to get my head around, but I could get that. You could maybe get me there. Ye
Tantan Wang ah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the another cliche would be just like a bioserror mixed up mariner. Right? Yeah. Like it would be like it would be I, mean, it's I I say this only because I think my brain would break if I think like a floor would be cooler. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a great point. Ye
James Stacy ah. Yeah. I'm not sure about that. Fifty fathoms and you don't do the Daytona because you already did the speedy. Yeah. Explorer would be cool. Explorer. I mean it's that that one we can
Malika Crawford definitely say is never ever ever going to happen. So what would be really cool is like different colored AP dials. Uh yeah, that would be cool. But that's obviously never ever going
James Stacy to happen. So yeah, that's gonna happen. But never gonna happen is kind of a fun way to end a show about what we think will happen in twenty twenty five. Uh Tantan and Maleka, thanks so much for coming on the show and chit-chatting about 2025. I think I think it's going to be a really exciting year. I'm feeling super positive about the position of the industry and uh and kind of their ability to make product that enthusiasts want to buy that seems to be the tone of the last few years is like find your audience and actually make the watch for them. And I think if that strategy continues, we should see pretty solid watches at every price point. So thanks so much for coming on. Th Thanankks you., James.