New Watches From Hamilton, Tudor, And More; Talking Tiffany & Co.'s Untapped Watchmaking Potential¶
Published on Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:55:00 +0000
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Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, hosts Tony Traina, James Stacy, and Malaika Crawford return from their end-of-summer break to discuss the latest watch releases from September, including coverage from Geneva Watch Days. The episode begins with their regular "something cool on your desk" segment, where James shows off a fossilized shark tooth and discusses his momentum solar eclipse UDT watch, while Malaika reveals her new Vacheron Constantin cocktail watch and shares her love for the Royal Oak Offshore.
The main discussion covers recent releases that caught their attention. Malaika discusses Chanel's provocative watch-headphone hybrid premiere piece, James highlights the affordable Hamilton Khaki Field Quartz and the Tudor Black Bay Chrono Blue, and Tony praises the Daniel Roth Tourbillon in rose gold from Geneva Watch Days. The group also explores Tony's appreciation for the Zenith Chronomaster Revival Shadow with its new titanium bracelet.
A significant portion of the episode is devoted to discussing Malaika's recent in-depth article about Tiffany & Co.'s untapped watchmaking potential. The conversation explores Tiffany's historical relationship with Patek Philippe, their past manufacturing facility in Geneva, and their current position under LVMH ownership. The hosts debate what direction Tiffany should take with their watch collections, comparing them to successful fashion-house watchmakers like Hermès and Cartier. The episode concludes with collecting advice for a listener seeking a dive watch under $2,500 for free diving trips, with James providing an extensive list of recommendations ranging from Marathon and Doxa to Longines and Sinn.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Tony Traina | This episode is brought to you by Hodinki Insurance. Collecting watches is fun. Insuring watches is not. But with Hodinki Insurance, we've teamed up with Chubb, the premier insurer of valuable collections, to offer a better and more seamless experience to ensure your watches and even jewelry. Minimizing the paperwork and maximizing the protection so you can stop worrying about your watches and focus on enjoying them. Hodiki Insurance, protect what you love. Visit insurance.hodiniki.com for more details. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Hodinky Radio. We're getting back into the swing of things after a little end of summer break for the show. But this week I've got James and Melica here to discuss some of the latest releases of September. Tiffany less decent. That's less decent. Thanks, Danny. I'm glad you said it. It was kind of implied in the copy I wrote there, but I'm glad you guys picked up on it. You're getting pretty sharp over there. Do you have a script, Tony? I didn't know you had a script. Believe it or not, the show, as I've said before, is more planned out than it seems to be. So I don't think people understand that the show is fully scripted. What I'm reading right now, I'm reading off a teleprompter. Oh, it's it's all part of the simulation, my friends. Thank you so much to James and Malaika for joining us. I don't think I have to introduce their individual voices, both both gracing their microphones for us today. We've also got a great collecting advice at the end of the show. I I'm actually very excited about so stick through until the very end this week if you don't already. Guys, we're gonna start this week before we get to news and releases and all of that type of stuff with everyone's favorite segment: something cool on your desk. It could be a watch, it could be watch-related, it could be other paraphernalia. I know James is a bit of a gearhead, so the people always look forward to seeing what James is going to be showing off. So we're going to kick it over to Toronto for something cool on James Stacy's desk. James, what are we looking at today |
| James Stacy | ? I really struggled with this, Tony. Um, I can't decide. I've got two things and they probably couldn't so I'm gonna do both really quickly. First one is a fossilized shark tooth. It's huge and I love it a lot. I wanted one of these when I was a little kid. And uh a friend of mine, Chris, gave me one a little while ago and it lives on my desk and I absolutely adore it. And then so that my shark teeth and uh other things don't get dusty like where does one find |
| Tony Traina | a river beds, I think? Delta riverbeds? Oh, so Chris, your friend Chris. Shout out to Chris. He just found it in a riverbed in in Toronto. So I'm sure where he I d I didn |
| James Stacy | 't a I didn't get the papers. Uh no box or papers. No boxer shirts. No boxer papers. You bought it naked, huh? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. What's the second one? The second one is one of my favorite gadgets. It's not that interesting to talk about. So we're going to talk about it for just 30 seconds. This is like a dust blower. It's like a little leaf blower. And if you know me, I absolutely despise leaf blowers, but I also really hate a dusty desk. And this does a good job. That's kind of what I have on my desk. It's um there's a lot of watches. There's a litany of little pieces of watch bracelets. Those those all have a home that I'm never going to find. And then this thing, which knocks all the little watch bracelet stuff in behind my desk. It's a problem later. Can you give us a peek at one watch on the desk, James? Uh absolutely. So I just took delivery of the momentum solar eclipse udt, which I can hold up and I have it on my wrist. And then I have my Brightling Pluton based uh kind of precursor to the to the original UDT or to the uh ancestor of the uh of the original UDT. So it's a real analog digital sort of vibe happening around today |
| Tony Traina | . It's a watch you've mentioned before. I think you kind of bought it without seeing it in person if I recall. I did from Moldova. Oh man, I've never got a big why'd you have to buy it from there? It was some sort of distribution. Oh, okay. I love when it's like Chrono 24 Lithuania. You're like sit. Honestly, that's the only time I've ever used Chrono 24 is buying from some obscure country, and you feel like I me |
| James Stacy | an the experience is fine. It's just their their tracking numbers are meaningless. Oh yeah. Like ours are a lie that UPS or whoever tells us. They're just they're constantly just gaslighting you into like we left it on your porch a week ago. It should be yours. And they've got it. In Moldova, it's just like it's shipped. It's shipped. You'll get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get it there. |
| Tony Traina | It's on a boat somewhere. Knucklehead. Maleleika, uh something cool on your desk, Moldovian or otherwise |
| Malaika Crawford | . Um actually, I've got something from LA on my wrist. Um I got a new watch. It's right oh great stuff uh uh a new watch alert for the podcast uh radio exclusive this is a trade exclusive it's um a courtesy of justin greenberg um a hodinky podcast uh alum might might I say. Yeah. Um my one of my favorite people and watches. Uh he's got quite a relaxed attitude, Justin. Like myself. Um I got a new it's a Vashron cocktail watch. Whoa. Uh yeah, sick, right? Um 'cause you know, I didn't have Del and uh they took my sepentee back. So I had to supplement it. Yeah, I know. Can you believe that? Wait, you got rid of the serpenty? Or I I'm confused. Well, the other serpentity. I don't I never like owned the forty-five thousand dollars a panty. It was like a parmalone and they had to take it back. So my wrist felt naked. So I went and bought myself a gold watch with diamonds on it. Had a girl. I love it. Um also I have this cool book that I didn't know we had in the office because I basically flew all the way to Switzerland to look at this book. Um it's like an offshore anniversary book. Everybody on on our our website seems to hate offshore, but I love it. So here we go. I adore offshore. I think it's so underrated. I prefer the vintage, but I still I still I want an offshore. Which kind of offshore do you want? Okay, um I want a 37 millimeter. There's a really sick one on the website now that has a salmon dial, but I want it without the diamonds on the bezel. It's like gray and salmon 37 |
| Tony Traina | . Got it. They just did a 37 millimeter, more of like a gray taupe situation, but I think it might have been rose gold. So that's an automatic. Yeah. Uh you know, it's an automatic look, I guess. But I I really liked it actually, otherwise. But I think what you're talking about would be better if they undiamendified it. Yeah, I mean, I'll just cool them up for a custom order |
| James Stacy | . Yeah, yeah, yeah. They should have it in no time. Look while we're on the topic, my love for the original Royal Oak Offshore Diver, Black Dial, the standard one. I think Heaton did a dive review in like 2012, 2013. That watch I only wanted more with each passing year. And there was a moment when they were not as not as crazy as they are now. No, I mean, |
| Malaika Crawford | but I would love that for you. I would love you to get an offshore diver. That would be such a sick James Stacy won't. Right. Yeah., I agree I agree. We gotta make it happen. Let's |
| Tony Traina | do it. The Venn diagram of watches that both James and Melica enjoy is probably not there's probably not a ton of overlap, but the offshore has gotta be, you know, I think actually that's pretty sensitive. |
| Malaika Crawford | You'd be you'd be quite surprised at James' sort of like gold dress watch um take problems. Oh yeah, yeah. That's true. Yeah, ye |
| James Stacy | ah, yeah. James has like secret passions. I am the I am the guy in the watch industry for champagne taste and beer, beer buying tendencies. Right. |
| Tony Traina | Right. My something on my desk is a watch I just got from FedEx actually. Uh it's it's not mine, it's just a sample, but it was an excuse to get a watch. It's this Zenith uh what's it called? The Zenith Chronomaster Revival Shadow, one of one of these watches. It's like my favorite modern Xena. It came out a few years ago. Oh my god, that's so interesting. I have thoughts on this watch. Sorry, keep going. Oh god. Uh I it came out a few years ago. They delivered it on a sort of standard black cordura strap, but they added the sort of titanium ladder bracelet to it recently as an option. So it gave me an excuse to call it in and you know hopefully do some sort of updated review on what honestly is one of my favorite Zeniths. The bracelet is not anything sort of innovative. It's very similar to what they put on the Defy revival shadow last year in titanium, but just with the lugs that that fit this watch. But it completes the look of the watch. You know, it's black uh matte titanium, the the bracelet really adds to the vintage vibe, but it's a totally modern thing. So I I really like it. Was was really thrilled to be able to call it in and have an excuse to to write about this watch. But Malaika, I'm I'm glad I I'm glad that I've spurred something in your mind before I get to James here. What what are your thoughts |
| Malaika Crawford | ? Actually, I saw someone wearing it at Watches and Wonders um from Italian watch spotter. I can't remember his name. But um I was actually quite mean to him about it. So Because of because of the watch? You didn't watch? Well, I just uh what do you like about this watch |
| Tony Traina | ? Um I like a lot of things about this watch. Like aesthetically speaking. Uh first of all, I'm not a whole I'm not a big like, oh, blacked out watches are cool guy. That that's kind of an over overdone thing in my opinion. But there's something about the Zenith one that's that's really cool. Uh that that I like. The first time I tried on this watch, I was really surprised by how well it wears. The case looks super chunky in photos, but it's actually, I don't know, wears like a 37, 38 millimeter watch. And it's I don't know, man. It's just cool |
| James Stacy | . Gosh, you really put me on the spot here., Malica I I think in person in person it's a really good looking watch. The proportions work really well. Um I'm I'm less I I like the one that you've got there, Tony, with the black dial. Um because I think the black helps underline that the the case and bracelet finish isn't actually black. It's more like a dark gray. It's gray. But the cool one that I saw one at Dubai Watch Week was the Dubai Watch Club with the Zenith dial or the uh the yellow dial from Zenith? Oh yeah, that was a good one. Oh, that's so cool. So it's the same watch, but with a bright yellow dial. And that was on um, I don't want to forget Mr. Green Certified, shout out uh sultan al Qadar. It was uh it was rad uh to see that one in person and I don't know what it is about um changing just the dial color for a watch that already works. Maybe it's just because I'm I I can't help but be a huge doxa nerd and just swapping colors is fun. But this watch in yellow, I think yellow is a really tough color to nail. Uh, but I think this watch with the yellow and the gray is just super fun. I I really like this watch. I think it kind of stands out. I think it offers an interesting mix of obviously z the zenith like vibe but in a um mode that's entirely different than kind of a standard uh sort of you know El Premiro 400, 410 Chronomaster |
| Tony Traina | . Yeah, the other one that they do it in is a I think they call it a safari. It's kind of a green dial, dark green dial. It's uh look green is a little overplayed right now, but it looks good. And uh Zenith's brain tends to get a lot of attention in enthusiast circles despite the fact that they're not a huge brand. But, you know, it's watches like this that I think really speak to enthusiasts. Uh and and I like it and I'm glad to spend a few days with it. The yellow dial is so cool. I just Googled it |
| James Stacy | . I feel like that I understand. I think yellow is yellow's on the edge of a moment. That's our that's green. 2025's green is definitely yellow. We've been saying this. Hasn't yellow been a moment since the O |
| Tony Traina | P dial? I was gonna say it was always it was one of the more popular OP dial. Well, it was probably number three after Tiffany and Coral. Uh it was my favorite. Yeah. We've had a number of new releases already in the post-Labor Day in the United States at least world. A lot of them were centered around Geneva watch days, but there have been other releases as well. Grand Seiko did a slate of releases. Alonga has released some watches as well as some some Swatch brands. Hamilton in particular, I'm thinking of. So I I asked both of you, as well as myself, of course, to come ready to talk about what's been perhaps your favorite release from the month of September so far as the watch world has has kicked back into high gear with with new watches and new announcements and all of those types of things. I was the only one of the three of us that was that was in Geneva in Geneva Watch Days. So when I when it gets to my turn, I'll maybe give a quick roundown of my favorites from from that. But I don't want to make this a Geneva Watch Days podcast because that's that's weeks in the past at some point. And with that, I think Meleika was was perhaps most excited to talk about new releases and and her favorites. So I'll kick it over to you uh to to ask what your favourite spends of |
| Malaika Crawford | . Let me really conform to gender norms today, uh, and talk about the Chanel headphones, which I feel like everybody was so confused by, but I thought was like truly hilarious and amazing. It's a premiere watch necklace with headphones, detachable headphones, which is like I feel watch enthusiasts just that's like too far. They do not understand. But it's sort of like I don't even think Chanel did it ironically, but if you like sort of take an ironic lens, it's pretty hilarious. And I feel they're the only brand |
| James Stacy | that could get away with doing that. The tech nerd in me was very triggered by these. I have no problem with Chanel being creative. I think that's so fun. I think that uh aesthetically, I think this is really cool looking. It feels like something from Chanel, despite being something that also feels at the same time uh like a collaboration between Samsung and Chanel in 2003 that we would have seen, right? Like it maybe would have come with a a phone that kind of looked like a Chanel watch and then it flipped open and had a Chanel animation on the little 240p screen. Uh but the weirdest thing about this, just to finish, is that it's a a wired headset. Which is like perfectly time for Bratgirl Summer with the return of the importance of of wired ear pod airpods or ear you know earbuds. Um those are back. And if those are back, then this makes sense in my story. Sounds like you wro |
| Malaika Crawford | te my story. Yes. Of course. I well, you know, I feel like there were probably some people taking stabs at me for making cultural references, but there's a whole Instagram page dedicated to it girls wearing wired headphones. So it's kind of like a thing, right? It's like Belahadith. Oh, definitely a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um and I also think that just in terms of like longevity of the product, I I assume that has something to do with it, right? Like just feel like if you had pods, they would it would be a a difficult thing to to keep. But I just think at least I I don't know, having fun. I like it when people have fun and |
| James Stacy | nobody has fun. Well I mean there's there's a certain side of fashion that is about irreverence, about challenging whatever everybody else has decided we have to do right now. And I feel like I've learned that from a lot of your stories. And is this irreverent? Absolutely. My question is like, what do you plug this into? Oh my God, I tried it in the store. It's so funny. Um like do you is this like you you can't plug this into a phone since the iPhone 10? And I think you can. They have a oh oh right right of course you need the dongle yes does chanel supply a dongle that's the question i really need to yes it comes with a dong |
| Malaika Crawford | le does it really um yeah it does if you missed my stories last week because i posted it on stories' thatll I uh drop a picture of me wearing it and dancing in the chat. So gre |
| James Stacy | at. Great. Yeah, I I think this is hilarious and fun and and for somebody who still laments the passing of unique technology. Like everything looks the same now. I get it. There's a difference between an iPhone and a Samsung S, whatever, and somebody else's. But like they're all just little pieces of glass that turn on and the whole screen is the screen. They don't flip around, they don't spin, they don't make a noise, they don't have little pens anymore. Like I I grew up at a time where like I needed a mini disc player and I needed uh you know a Samsung or a Motorola T seventy. You needed both. And uh and I think I I kind of like this in my mind, this is this is being worn by someone who's got it plugged into like an old, like a Gen 1 iPod shuffle. |
| Tony Traina | James Melica, are you both are you wired headphones uh you know, reborn people you you're |
| James Stacy | airpods all the way still I have uh multiple sets and another one in the mail today. This is my finest moment if I may. I added a little sticker from my daughters where the eye is the uh is the light. So it's like terminator. It lights up. And then my daughters are gonna find me one for this one, and we didn't get around to it. And then I have the new the H2 um Pro 2s arriving probably while we're recording this. Uh I live with these and I am I'm kind of uh hard of hearing to begin with uh and I have pretty bad tinnitus and uh and so I really like having some sound on all the time. And the brand new ones have a thing where when someone starts talking, let's say, just hypothetically, my lovely wife, it lowers the volume so I can actually hear her and not have to go 300 times a day. So I'm looking forward to it |
| Tony Traina | . Uh and here I thought it was yeah, here I thought it was selective hearing all along. It's good to know. James. Favorite release of the last month or so so far |
| James Stacy | ? That's kind of tough because I think some of it is stuff that that came out previously and was kind of reshown at Geneva Watch Days, like the singer dive track. I'm I remain very excited about, but I think I talked about it on an episode six months ago. Um, I think for the most recent stuff that's come out, uh I'm pretty jazzed by the Hamilton khaki fueled quartz. I I feel like that was something that was actually missing, not only from a price point standpoint, but from just filling out the line. I I it should be a mechanical watch and I think the core of it for enthusiasm would be mechanical. But if you wanted to buy this watch for somebody else, like I think suddenly this becomes a really lovely gift that might introduce somebody to the idea of a a slightly nicer watch and uh, you know, maybe a step up from what they've been wearing around, or if you wanted no more complexity than say a nice digital timex, but an entirely different aesthetic, I think that does a really good job. And then I think weirdly, Tutor just continues, and and look, I love to talk about Tutor. I'm a big fan of the brand and what they're up to, but they do just kind of continue to build out really core commercial product. So earlier this year we had the new 41, what you know people are calling the monochrome with the Meta's movement. And it's just a series of refinements that make like a really dialed you know, would I say like a an aggressively interesting watch? No, but a really good watch to actually go on somebody's wrist for the next fifteen or twenty years or whatever. And I think within that vibe we have the new chrono blue, uh so it's a a black bay chrono uh with a blue dial. And I think it's it just feels again like they added something that if you didn't know the line super well, you would have assumed this existed two or three years ago. Like why did they do black and white and pink and not blue? But but now we have blue. So I think those are kind of the two, you know, I I love stuff that's not egregiously expensive, especially when we're talking about like uh Geneva Watch Days, where most of it is sort of higher end sort of stuff and and announcements. And you certainly saw that from Constanceonsist andent C shaken and that sort of stuff. But um yeah, I think that Tudor Chrono Blue is pretty solid. And I ask you a question. Yeah, of course. Who who is buying a chronograph from Cheetah? That I'm not sure. Um I mean I I think I think that I I still really prefer the the chrono the heritage chrono line versus the more dive watch inspired but also not really a dive watch black bay chronos. Uh, you know, I think it is a little weird that depending on when you decide to use the chronograph, that our hand is so chunky that it can cover essentially the entire subdial. So like the practical the practical uses of the watch could be undermined by being able to read the time, which is arguably the other practical use of the watch. It's an interesting design. I think, I think like aesthetically, it's quite a handsome watch. I think they wear really well. They look pretty good on a wrist. Um, but I'm not sure who's buying them because when I talk to people, certainly in my circles, they're buying Pelagosts and and BlackBay fifty eights and fifty fours, right? |
| Malaika Crawford | It's a it's a bit confusing to me, but I I see the reasoning behind it. But I think they're f it's it's another catalog move. They're filling out. Yeah. Um but I do actually really like that Hamilton. Yeah. Which might be a surprise to some. But I think it's pretty rad and it's so affordable. And I would like to buy my little brother that watch |
| James Stacy | . Totally. And and I I would think if you're if you're uh an enthusiast and you buy that watch and you just want to make it feel a little bit more special, just change out the strap. Put a nicer strap on that watch and it'll el elevate immediately. Yeah. Cool, James. They're fun. They're fun on a NATO. I've got R L E in a box behind us here. They're great on a NATO, but they are more fun if you put them on a nice suede or uh like a uh leather NATO works really well with those because they have that sort of uh 40s feel to them |
| Tony Traina | . Yeah, 400 bucks, a great addition to the khaki field line. Yeah, not Pavy. Come on, you don't have to think about it too hard. So uh why would you just do it? But I saw the Tudor Black Bay Chrono Blue uh for the first time in person a a couple of weeks ago, and it it it is nice in person. I it's a chunky watch, but the five link especially makes it borderline wearable even for me, I would say. It just drapes on the wrist a little bit better. Uh the blue is nice, you know. If you if you have a have if if you have seen a black bay 58 in blue or whatever else, you kind of know the two are blue. You know it's really nicely executed. There's some other little small things on here. The the the red depth rating is a fun little like wink to things that you would see in a vintage Rolex or something else like that. So you know there's all these little touches but as you said just filling out the line at 5600 bucks it's a it's a pretty good addition to the catalog and look to uh so your point i think tutor is more of a dive watch brand so a dive chronograph is is a little bit confusing but, it's tough to think of uh any real competition in the chronograph market at at that price, say five to six thousand bucks. IWC Brightling, those chronographs are coming in eight, nine, ten thousand. The zenith I just mentioned on the bracelet is is 10, I think. I know it's nine on a strap. So it it fills that out nicely just in the more the the broader Swiss watch market for chronographs. So it's it's good. But you know, look, I think what people are waiting for more broadly is since Tudor uh discontinued the the heritage chronograph. It's been a year now, a year and a half, and then there was the only watch that they had it introduced with the new movement. Uh people are kind of waiting to see if and when that that line is reintroduced. So that's that's the broader question from Tutor |
| James Stacy | that'll that'll come eventually though. Yeah. And I I think the the the one thing, the one caveat I would add uh both to what you said and then to Maleka's question would just be like probably what the pe there are people who want a tutor even dive adjacent chronograph, but I think that tutor has taught a lot of their own audience to wait for the fifty-four or the fifty-eight version. We know like if they're making something at 41, I don't think that the watch is too big. It's good, it's not too big for my wrist. I prefer a smaller watch. And I think a lot of people, Tutor has trained a lot of its audience to expect the smaller version at some point. And and let's be clear, like I think it's worked out pretty well so far for the GMT to be at 39. And I couldn't be I I couldn't I couldn't really talk myself out of a position where I I think that a uh the same like a Black Bay Chrono or a Heritage Chrono at more like thirty nine, thirty eight would be quite successful. So maybe they're just setting the groundwork for that as they do with a lot of their sort of staged rollouts |
| Tony Traina | . Yep. Like anything else with Tutor Rolex, it's a constant, slow evolution. And we could read the tea leafs all we want, but in the meantime, a nice addition to the lineup. The watch I wanted to talk about was Ben mentioned the the burner on uh tiger's eye and lapis stone dial watches. He uh we had Sylvan on the podcast a few months ago and and we talked about uh developing the Mirage and he's now introduced a smaller 34 millimeter version of his kind of asymmetrical watch uh compared to the the original 38 millimeter. The stone dials are are really, really nice in person, but they they weren't complete watches yet. The movement on the back was was basically a a dummy movement type of thing. So you didn't really get the full effect yet. Uh I I know he'll deliver on exactly what he sort of promised as he did with the previous mirage, but those had it was beautiful to see the dials in person, but not sort of a finished product. The the finished product that impressed me the most was the Daniel Roth Torbillon and Rose Gold. It's funny because it's the Daniel Roth aesthetic at once is entirely not mine. The case shape is not for me. It's a little bit weird and different, but I I appreciate it all the more because of that. And uh I had never seen their re-released Torbillones in person. The yellow gold one they released last year as a subscription of 20. And they told us that as of the announcement of the rose gold, they would have delivered all of those. But the rose gold really makes some small incremental but real improvements on that. The most important of which is that you could see through the sapphire case back the movement and the the finishing is quite nice on it the there's black polish on one of the bridges that just slaps you in the face when you turn it over something that you just don't appreciate from the renderings or the online photos uh really beautiful to see in person the guichet on the the front of dial as well is really, really beautiful and well done. The it's kind of a straight line giochet as opposed to the Clou des Paris that they did on the first version. And more broadly than that, the rose gold case along with the rose gold dial just has a really beautiful rich warm effect that the original yellow gold didn't quite do. Uh it's $155,000. Not the first $155,000 I'd spend on a watch, but at the same time, a really, really beautiful display of watchmaking. And for a watch that I didn't quite understand or yeah, that I didn't quite understand until seeing it in person. It's just a really impressive display of watch making and cool to see everything they've done with the brand in just a short, short amount of time. It's an exceptionally beautiful watch |
| Malaika Crawford | for sure. It's so beautiful. I mean it's like a very old man watch, but |
| James Stacy | yeah, lots of grandpa charm. But |
| Malaika Crawford | it's stu I mean, it's like I |
| James Stacy | objectively stunning, I think. I really like what they've done with the turbine. The super wide the wide place bridge, the finishing behind the turbion. Looks great |
| Tony Traina | . Meleica, I wanted to talk just for a little bit about uh might I say an excellent in-depth article that you wrote about Tiffany and Co. and its watchmaking. Uh just this past week or about a week and a half ago at this point. Uh you called it Tiffany and Co.'s Untapped Watchmaking Potential. And you write that America's only heritage luxury brand is focusing its efforts on high jewelry horology, but surely there's room for more. It's it's a great rundown. It's a great rundown of the history of Tiffany and Co. and its watchmaking, not only its involvement with Paddock, but other brands, its own watchmaking, all of those types of things, up to and including its acquisition by LVMH in twenty twenty one and what it's been up to since then and uh how that acquisition has affected the perception and the reality of the brand. So I I want to run through all of those things briefly, but before we do that, maybe if you could just a little bit lay the foundation of Tiffany and Co.'s history and watches and watch making, where it all began for for the brand and what they were doing in watches from the very beginning really |
| Malaika Crawford | . It's a really interesting story because the the kind of they have a really solid watchmaking history. Um but basically back in I don't know the 18, I can't remember the exact dates, I'm sorry, but around sort of 1840s, um they decided to venture into watches and they became the first official retailer of Patek Philippe in the US. I believe they were like the exclusive retailer, um, later in the eighteen fifties. There were much larger, sort of more industrial-sized companies in the US. Um, and so Tiffany decided that it they should sort of stick to what they do best and get Patek Philippe to make watches for them. So they had this watchmaking facility in Geneva, that was very modern, very high-tech, we're talking 19th century, but for that time. And Patek Philippe bought the factory from them and produced watches for them, which I had no I like I did not know that happened. Um, they also, to be clear, weren't making Patek watches, but they were manufacturing watches for Tiffany and Co. Uh and then sort of later down the line, you know, after the whole pocket watch era, and then I suppose ladies art deco jewelry watches, up until the 1930s, they had sort of their own watches going and then it went cold and quiet and they stayed sort of like you know the biggest watch retailer in the US, retailing several brands. We all know kind of the the story there are too many brands to list them all but Patek being the sort of main sell uh and then they decided to venture back into watchmaking in the 80s. I And sort of came up with my own conclusion. This isn't like official info, but I reckon that it was, you know, a watch market boom time for sort of cheaper, more affordable quartz for obvious reasons, watches. And I think they were sort of riding on the coattails of that boom. And they were producing slightly more affordable watches with their own brand names on the dial. And ever since then, it's kind of been a strange hot and cold approach. Now, my whole thing is it's such a strong brand, and I think everybody's so familiar with Tiffany as a brand name. We're sort of so used to romanticizing Tiffany stamps on dials. I think there's like real potential for them, especially now that they've been bought by LVMH. So they have the powers that be literally making the decisions and powering the brand. They can do anything they want. That's how I see it. Like I don't know if you're familiar with the CT60 stuff. I didn't include it in the article. To me, it's not that interesting. Um and I think there's space for them to actually, I don't think they need to go back to their heritage because I don't think there's enough of one. But I I think everybody is sort of I think Tiffany has enough credibility behind its name to leverage it, leverage itself to become sort of like a quartier, bulgary, what have you competitor, if they get the right people designing and sort |
| Tony Traina | of market it correctly. I'm curious what you'd like to see from them in terms of, as you say, leveraging this history as a uniquely American luxury brand. Uh on par, if not with the brands you just mentioned, certainly close and now with the backing of LVMH. What anything in particular that you think in terms of direction, product, design, whatever that would would make them um especially successful as they uh do watch us |
| Malaika Crawford | I think because they are already just known for jewellery you know it's like a little bit less watchy in the way that Cartier is. I think the real key to a brand like that is you've got your super mega expensive, you know, engagement rings and high jewelry. And then you create a sort of in the same way that Cartier does, you're making your super high end product and then you have your supplementary kind of Pompeo or um, you know, Santos or whatever. Um, I think that you also need to kind of mirror what's going on in the jewellery collections, which is what Cartier does. I think a lot of people maybe aren't aware of that. Um and I think if Tiffany kind of leaned on that side of things in that like three to ten K range or three to twelve K range, I think that's where they would succeed |
| Tony Traina | . Is there anything a few other capital F fashion brands, if that's the proper way to refer to them, Chanel, Hermes, I guess even Cartier and Bulgary to an extent, although not as much, have have done watches in a really effective way, especially over the past few years. Is there anything that a Tiffany could uh learn from or or emulate in a manner of speaking from from those types of brands or do they need to do things differently? I think MAS is so |
| Malaika Crawford | clever and what they've done is so clever in that they have leveraged this high watchmaking sort of segment and then they've introduced HOA and they've introduced this, you know, the cut, which is that uh new stainless steel sports watch for women. And they've done it in the MS way. And it's not a derivative. And it's kind of like you almost need that high-end product to kind of like give you the legitimacy. And then you bring in the lower sort of priced product, but you do it in your way. You don't make it overly watchy, if that makes sense. I think it does |
| Tony Traina | . I think to speak to the corporate corporateness of it all, and then maybe I want your opinion on this as well, but LV Mitch has made no secret of of its intent to do more in the watch industry. I mean I just talked about Daniel Roth at the top. Gerald Genta, the exact same thing. Uh they've they've invested a lot in Bulgaries watchmaking, uh, and so on but there have also been rumors that they've tried to acquire a brand like Brigade, that they've tried to uh acquire some of the watchmaking, manufacturing, and supplier capabilities of the of the Sandoz Foundation, the brand, or the company or the foundation that owns the Parmigiani Flourier brand at least. I think they're more interested in the supplier and manufacturing capabilities than the brand itself. So there it's it's no secret in Geneva and Switzerland that LVMH is quite interested in continuing to expand itself in in watches. And it seems to me that Tiffany would be a quite natural way for them to do that. A brand that they would be able to leverage in a way that they're not currently throughout their entire portfolio. I'm wondering what you what you think of that |
| Malaika Crawford | . I thought it was really interesting when I spoke to the head of the watch department. He was so adamant that they stick to watches for women, um, which I just thought was kind of an an interesting take from that head of watches. Um, and maybe that's in order to kind of avoid competing with the other LVMH brands and kind of set their own tone. I don't I don't really know um what that was about. But if I look at what I think is the most interesting a lot of people might disagree, but the most interesting kind of foray into watchmaking for for Tiffany, in-house at least, in the 20th century, they did or 21st century, they did this watch called the Mark. And that was sort of like their Daniel Roth-inspired dress watch stuff that had kind of legitimate um movements and and kind of cases and finishing. I feel like that would just not sell um today and I and I so I understand the reason for leaning on the kind of like jewellery as inspiration as opposed to like the pocket watches turning into like the mark collection. I just feel like that's I don't know where that would land. But I I think kind of like the the women's women's, you know, that kind of jewelry genre of watch |
| Tony Traina | . Yeah. It's inter you included these photos of the mark collection. I I'd never really paid much attention to these, but they're clearly a product of something we've talked about actually with with Ben on the podcast before this early 2000s era of Swiss watch luxury where it's bigger complicated watches and all of that type of stuff. We've talked about this with the JLC gyro torbill and whatever else. It's clearly a product of its own time. And uh ironically, it's kind of the exact opposite of what people are asking from watches nowadays, but it's still uh what people seem to be asking for, what's trendy now is something that the Tiffany brand seems more attuned to, these smaller jewelry watches and that type of thing. So it seems they would be well set up |
| Malaika Crawford | . The whole reason for that sort of deep dive was I saw a woman wearing a vintage a I don't know if you can call it vintage a a mark in yellow gold in like women's size and I was like, okay, that's actually a sick watch. Like it was on a bracelet. And I was like, what is that? I'd never seen that before. Is it a baby Daniel Roth? Um, and it sort of got me thinking, why is it that Tiffany are just so shy? I mean, obviously they have an existing watch collection, but I don't think anyone's sort of going after that |
| Tony Traina | . You mentioned Daniel Roth, this mark, the the one that is weirdly shaped that looks like a Roth. It looks a lot like |
| Malaika Crawford | a Langa arcade as well. What do you guys think about Tiffany as a brand? Like do you you sort of see the logic or do you |
| James Stacy | For me it's always been a s like a signature on a dial from another brand. Um I I d learned a ton from your story that I didn't know about Tiffany. Um I I think that I think that there's lots of examples of this working if the brand in question, in this case Tiffany, moves slowly and is very thoughtful about who buys the watch. I think there's been lots of examples of jewelers or other brands that don't do those two things. They just need your get a watch out, and maybe maybe that's something we've seen in the past from several brands. But I yeah, I I think it makes sense they have a clientele that comes to them for a certain type of product. If they can make more product watch or otherwise that appeals to the same buyer, they'll keep selling it, I would assume |
| Malaika Crawford | . Yeah, we'll see. I feel like you're right. The strategy has to be slow and steady. And I just I think MS is really the the appropriate comparison in that they used to be big retailers, well, big, I don't know how big, but they did retail watch watches in the 20th century and and they've done it slow and steady. And I think that's sort of killing it |
| Tony Traina | . Yeah. To the point, maybe this is where we can end it. Hermez first invested in the Vau Shea facility. You know, I think they bought a portion of it and now in about 25% of it, but I think the first investment was in 2004 or the early 2000s at least. So it's a it's been a 20-year journey for them to get to a point where people are uh really admiring them and and talking about them and taking them seriously as a watchmaker. So uh, you know, it might take the same amount of time, almost a generation for for Tiffany, but that that''ss kind of the the pathway and the potential timeline for them. We've got one more thing. I got a cool collecting advice. This comes from a friend that I wanted to close out today's discussion with, I'll just read the message I got because it pretty much explains everything. I am planning some complex free diving trips in some seedier parts of the world for a U.S. tourist, and I'm looking for a proper piece of equipment that won't draw too much unwanted attention. Most dives will be under 100 feet, so there's plenty of options there, but I want something that can take a decent beating and doesn't look like crap. I'd also love your feedback on some great dive or field watches that may get the job done. Budget is two to two point five thousand dollars. Oh, I'd also not like to look like a tool when I wear it to dinner. So I think this one is especially down James's alley. So I'm going to kick it over to James to start and then we'll take it from there |
| James Stacy | . Okay, so I'm not known for my brevity, so I'm going to try and get through the like 40 tabs that I have open with various options. Uh obviously we need something that's comfortable in the water, easy to wear, not overly sporty for dinner, but also not something flashy enough to draw any unwanted attention. I feel like I can thread this needle. So uh first up in my mind, if you're okay with quartz, you didn't say yes or no, so we're gonna do both throughout this. Um if you're okay with quartz, the marathon SS nav or SS Nav D that's with or without a date is amazing. You're talking under a thousand dollars, a forty-one millimeter, uh sort of seventies inspired like the Vietnam era, 60s to 70s. Has a 12-hour bezel, so very handy for changing time zones. Granted, if you wanted the elapsed time bezels for your free diving endeavors, uh maybe this won't work, but that's a great option. Probably my favorite quartz watch under a thousand dollars in existence right now. Uh it's just so much watch, so subtle, so easy to wear. The tritium tubes mean that it's super handy when you're traveling and you're in and out of rooms that don't have maybe the lighting you're used to at home and that sort of thing. Um and again, I think this nails the subtle element, but still something you could wear and draw no attention to yourself at dinner. Uh so that would work. The other one, and this is absolutely me pulling from something I recently spent my own money on, would be a Doxis Sub 200T. It's one of the most for me. A watch I talk about constantly this year. You're looking at about 150, 1600 bucks, a well within your price point, uh, you know, a Salita automatic movement, uh, 14 or 15 different colors at this point, so take your pick. I bought yellow, great for a vacation. Uh doesn't do the second time zone, but does have a lapse time. And also no wash looks cooler in the water, maybe, uh depending on what you do, but you've got a ton of options for color and bracelet or strap or the rest of it. So take a peek at that. I absolutely love mine. I'm super happy with it and I'm gonna wear it a ton. The next one is a major derivation, again, but you didn't mention. Uh don't if if you're doing free diving, you could also consider a watch that has a free diving mode, like an Apple Watch Ultra or a Garmin G one Descent. Um you can go up, actually you could go to a Mark III series descent if you wanted to spend big money, but now you're really paying for like a full featured dive computer that also does all of the other stuff. So if you plan on getting certified at some point, maybe consider one of these. I have a Mark II descent and a G1, solar, uh both are really great for in being in and around water. And I like them for travel because sometimes it's nice to get your notifications if your flight's late, that sort of thing. But also these watches get zero attention. That said, depending on how fancy dinner is, it may look like you're just wearing a digital watch, which you kind of are. So keeping in step with that. Again, going back to quartz, if you're interested in quartz, the scurfa product is absolutely incredible for the money. These are several hundred dollars. Nowhere near your top budget. You can buy them in steel or titanium. I like the titanium diver one, so that's the D1500. Comes in a bunch of different colors. These are hard to get. People, enthusiast dive watch nerds have found this brand and they basically buy anything that happens from it. But if you can get your hand on a diver one from Scarfa in your choice of color and metal. Really nice watch. I've owned two of them. They're great. Uh next up, if you kind of like the look of the marathon, but really want something with a mechanical movement and maybe without the tritium tubes and that sort of thing, absolutely do not sleep on the Benrus type 1 C. Now comes in four colors. I'm very partial to the black model. It's a type 1 style dial, so no numbers. It's geometric markers, no date on these, a 12-hour bezel. This is pure like Vietnam CIA style uh remade for twenty twenty-four. Uh I really like these. I adore the way they look. We're very similar to the marathon, and they're about fifteen hundred bucks. So again, well under your uh price limit. Um big fan of those. Uh especially like I said, in black on rubber, great for travel, great for being able to wear it in lots of scenarios and that sort of thing. Again, depending on your timeline, you could get in line for a Halios C4th 4. They're currently in production for Q1 of 2025. I've owned so many C4s at this point. I still have two. I absolutely adore them. And you could option that with a dive bezel or a 12-hour bezel. So it's up to you as far as whether you wanted it more for elapsed time, which I'm not sure that's a huge consideration for free diving. Maybe it is. Um and then obviously tracking a second time zone pretty handy that way. And then lastly, I would say if you're willing to push your budget a bit by like five hundred dollars, if you really want it, like if you could get to three, I think there's two really good options. One is more diver y that's the Zen U50. Starts at about three grand on a rubber strap and is an absolutely incredible everyday dive watch that you could wear all the time. That doesn't look like a a Rolex or a Doxa or a Blanc Pond. Has its own style. That one's worth taking a look at. And then the other one that's really good and I think would would really suit this sort of trip nicely at three grand is the Longines Hydro Conquest GMT. Uh so 41 millimeter in steel, blue or black, maybe even more colors than that. Let me scroll. Yep, a couple other colors. I'd go blue or black looking at these. Um and that gives you GMT and a dive bezel and a steel bracelet and its longines. I mean that's a genuinely that's just a great watch. Um so th that's my list of I don't know whatever that was, twelve watches or something. Yeah. How could anyone watch? I could do whole oh |
| Tony Traina | I do. I've run a whole podcast about this show about this sort of question. Right. Uh yeah. If you want more, boy, do I have the show for you you. Uh, know, I got this text on a plane and I kind of did did this off the top of my head and I went through a few of the ones you recommended there. Started with smaller brands, Sangin instruments. Uh oh, Sangin thing that's great call. That's good one. They make some awesome watches. Yeah, a few other watches like that. And then uh I kind of went with the basic answers, but you know, Seiko and the new twenty four moss or whatever you want to call it. And then I I really line it up. LP uh four five three, four five one, yeah. Yep. Uh and then I I landed on the docs |
| James Stacy | as sort of my favorite of the bunch, but you can't. Probably what I would take. Yes. It's gonna look awesome in the photos, which is a good part of a vacation, you know, looking back at your pict |
| Tony Traina | ures. I recommended it to him. He said he doesn't like the vibe of the beads of rice bracelet. Uh fair. I also mine is not on the watch. It's right here. Yeah, there you go. But you know, look, there's an easy solve for that. Uh so throw it on a NATO or get a tropic rubber and keep going. We can leave collecting advice at at that for the day. Melica, you have a favorite dive watch under $2,000? No, sorry. Oh, gosh. Okay, well, that |
| James Stacy | 's why we have James here. Uh okay. Look, that's why we have Malik here. I don't have that much to say about Tiffany. And and if you don't put if you don't put air f like air ear pods on your uh on your Chanel watch, I also don't have a ton to to link up. That's right. I tried to throw both |
| Tony Traina | . I tried to throw you both some red meat today. So hopefully, hopefully we succeeded in that. We wanted to plug an event that we're going to be collaborating on. Uh, it's going to be in the New York City area from October 7th through October 9th. We're doing this in collaboration with UBS. It's called the House of Craft. Basically, it's a series of sessions, panels, and other experiences around the New York City area during that week that's going to focus on celebrating the craft of watches and watchmaking. Ben, James, Melika, myself, all the other hodinky editors that you know are going to be there. We'll be hosting panels or we'll just be involved in the hangouts. So it'll be a good chance to see us in person hangout with us in person if you happen to be in the New York City area. We have some pr |
| James Stacy | etty incredible confirmed guests and panelists. That's going to be great. We've got a a really solid um editor QA on the evening of the 7th that I think is going to be super fun. I'm I'm definitely looking forward to it. Again, I'm not sure I can say who's moderating it, but it's not me or Tony, surprisingly. And uh it is somebody who's significantly more famous and talented than myself. Uh so we'll go from there and yeah, I think it's gonna be blast. If you can make it, uh please check your schedule. RFCP, each of the sort of sessions and events is gonna have its own um sort of guest list. Uh so uh we're trying to make uh so we're trying to make as many of those sl |
| Tony Traina | ots available as possible. Space for all of these is going to be limited though, whether it's a panel event or anything else. So all this to say stay tuned to the website for your chance to understand more about what the event's going to be, what we're going to be doing throughout the week, and your chance to RSVP to hopefully attend some of the various sessions we'll be doing. Thank you all again as always for listening to Hodinky Radio. Thanks to James Malaika Vic Autominelli for editing and we'll see you all again next week for another episode of Hodinky Radio. |