The Grey NATO¶
Published on Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:00:00 +0000
This week it's three HODINKEE editors, two podcasts, and one awesome crossover episode. We sit down with the hosts of The Grey NATO podcast, HODINKEE editor-at-large Jason Heaton and senior writer James Stacey. We knew from the very beginning that getting these two guys on HODINKEE Radio to talk about why we all decided to make The Grey NATO part of the HODINKEE family was a no-brainer, but this conversation ended up being about much more than podcasts and adventure watches. Enjoy.
Synopsis¶
This episode of Hodinkee Radio features a special crossover with The Grey NATO podcast, hosted by longtime Hodinkee contributors Jason Heaton and James Stacy. The conversation provides a deep dive into how both hosts got their start in watch journalism and developed their distinctive approaches to covering horology. Jason Heaton traces his involvement with Hodinkee back to 2010, when he began writing for the site while also contributing to Gear Patrol. His background in outdoor gear and scuba diving naturally led him to focus on dive watches and using watches as tools rather than purely as collectibles. James Stacy describes his journey from discovering watches about a decade ago to eventually making the leap from a technical writing day job to full-time watch and automotive journalism, joining Hodinkee in August of the previous year.
The discussion covers the genesis of The Grey NATO podcast, which emerged from the friendship between Jason and James as they connected through the watch industry. The podcast focuses on their shared interests in travel, adventure, diving, driving, and gear alongside watches. They explain their philosophy of bringing listeners into conversations they would have regardless, covering topics that may not always be watch-centric but reflect their genuine enthusiasms. Both hosts express gratitude for the supportive listener community and discuss memorable stories they've produced, from Jason's underwater reviews and interviews with diving legends like Sylvia Earle, to James's expedition to Clipperton Island and his innovative Tudor Black Bay GMT review.
The conversation also explores their collaborative creative process, how they've influenced each other's work, and their shared values of thoughtfulness and holding strong opinions loosely. They discuss future aspirations, including Jason's idea for a Hodinkee diving field trip and James's interest in pairing watches with their natural environments. The episode concludes with personal recommendations, lightning round questions about recent watches that caught their eye, travel highlights, life advice, and guilty pleasures, offering listeners an intimate look at the personalities behind two of the watch world's most respected voices.
Links¶
Transcript¶
| Speaker | |
|---|---|
| Unknown | Well, it's been about two months now since we made the Grey NATO podcast a part of Hodinky, and it seemed about time that we do a little crossover episode. The hosts of that show, James Stacy and Jason Heaton, are longtime members of the Hodinky family, and they seem like the peredfect opportunity to sit down and talk about how they got into watches in the first place, why they decided to launch a podcast of their own, and some of their favorite memories from their time writing and talking about watches. You'll be hard pressed to find two nicer, more I'm your host, Stephen Pulverin, and this is Hodinky Radio. This week's episode is brought to you by Tag Hoyer. Stay tuned later in the episode to learn more about a new Hoyer Octavia. You can also visit taghoyer.com to learn more. Cool, thank you guys for uh joining us here to have James and Jason in the same place is uh pretty pretty pretty special in uh Hodinky land. Yeah, the boys are together. Our pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. We got TGN Hodinky Radio uh crossover going on. Yeah. Before we get into too much TGN stuff, I think it's worth saying that we have kind of I guess the the oldest and newest longtime Hodinky contributors with us here. Yeah, true enough. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Cause Jason, your time with Hodinky actually extends before my time as |
| Unknown | Yeah, I was trying to remember when I wrote my first story for Hodinki, and I think it was early 2010, I think. Um and it was uh if I remember right, the first story I wrote for Hudinky was about how you can sign up and bid on an in an online auction. Like wherever it was antiquorum or something back then. We you know totally not my wheelhouse. But I remember I think Ben asked me to write something about it and so I researched it and and wrote it. So I th I think it was 2010. So yeah that's wild. Yeah. That's that's real OG. Yeah |
| Unknown | . I guess so. Yeah. So how did you get connected with Ben? Like what was your kind of entree into Hodinky? How did you do discover the site and then how did you get connected with Ben? |
| Unknown | I got connected with Ben through um the guys over at Gear Patrol because I was writing with Gear Patrol back in I think oh eight or oh nine. And um I at some point I think either Eric Yang or Ben Bowers from Gear Patrol who knew they both knew uh Ben Clymer, you know, this was that era when all these great sort of you know blogs and sites were coming up, uh continuous lean and and yeah uh Hodinky and gear patrol and uh and one of them said, Oh, you know, Hodinki's looking for uh uh some some help, some freelance help and you know, if you're interested so I I was put in touch with Ben and then kind of took it from there. So And it's it' |
| Unknown | s scaled up pretty quickly, I think, from there and then kind of maintained. I mean you've you've always been a a presence on the site as as long as I've been involved. Yeah, |
| Unknown | there was a bit of a a bit of a gap, I think. Um and I think I don't remember where you where you were during that gap, but it was around the time that you guys were at uh you moved into that little WeWork space and you were visiting. And then I remember um I helped out with a pop-up at Northern Grade, which was a a pop-up event in Minneapolis. Yeah, yeah. Um which was fun. But uh yeah, it's uh I I've seen a lot of people come and go and and you've been a longtime presence obviously and uh um but it's uh to look at the site now, I was just looking back through old stories that I'd written, trying to figure out when I started and uh um you know, it's it's just gotten so big. And here we are at H ten, which is an incredible event |
| Unknown | , you know. I mean I think that's a people know we're uh we're recording this the day before H ten starts. So we've kind of got the a gathering of all the the hodinky uh you know contributors past, present and and uh current. Yeah, yeah. You were obviously interested in watches and you were doing writing before Hodinky. Yeah. How did how did both of those things kind of become a part of your li |
| Unknown | fe? Well, uh, so um as I mentioned when I was writing for for Gear Patrol, the site was largely and still is to this day focused on sort of product reviews and sort of product-based journalism. So the we were do I was doing a lot of outdoor gear. I was doing, you know, kayaks and uh skis and backpacks and jackets and things like that. And um at that time I was kind of more into the outdoor watch space, so you know, your your Suntos and Garmin's and watches like that. Um but as I was kind of easing into sort of luxury watches, mechanical watches, and dive watches, it it it seemed like a logical fit for me because I I've always viewed and I still do sort of view watches as kind of a piece of gear, uh piece of equipment, sort of an extension of your you know, your boot or your jacket. Um and then from there I I started uh it was around the time, it was a little few years after I had started uh scuba diving as well. And uh you know, a dive watch is kind of an extension of your diving gear. One thing led to another, and I started doing a couple of uh of dive watch reviews um for gear patrol, and then that transferred over with uh with Hodinki as well. So I I come at watches from I think a different perspective than a lot of people who see them as um sort of collectible um uh you know mechanical art, things like that, and I totally appreciate that and I get that, but um I would say my background, kind of my focus or my uh expertise if you want to call it that is more from a watch as uh something uh that's that's used uh you know whether it's the history of its use or how you can use it nowadays. So yeah. That's kind of where I |
| Unknown | I come from and and came from. I have to say I think one of the one of the stories that stands out to me is I think still one of the great hodinky stories and one that really kind of if you can say it's it's groundbreaking. I I think it it was maybe something that other people weren't doing at the time was your review of the A P offshore diver. Oh yeah. Agreed. Um which is amazing. And I went back and looked at it recently because I was I was looking at some of your old stories ahead of recording this. Yeah. And it's that story still stands up and it still feels so current and feels like the sort of thing that is really quintessential to what we do. Yeah. And then I looked at the date on it and I I think it was like 2011, like early 2011. Yeah. And thinking back to what else was going on in the space back then, like that must have been shocking. And like I remember reading it back then, but it's it's with a little bit of perspective, it just it still feels so good and so curr |
| Unknown | ent. Well that's that's good to hear that it still does 'cause I I cringe sometimes when I look at old stories and I remember with that one. So I did um I think I don't know if it was subsequent years, but it was pretty close to each other. A P came out with the first that Royal Oak offshore diver, just the the steel version, and then the next one they came along with was the was it the carbon or the ceramic? I don't remember which one would have come second. I think it was the carbon. And I remember going to SIHH and and our friend Paul who works with AP on the PR side, um, you know, said, oh, we really liked what you did with that one. Um would you like you to take the the carbon one diving as well? And that's the one I think I took to the Great Blue Hole in Belize. Um and uh you know my wife Gishani does all the underwater photography and and we shot some video, I think, for one of these stories. And it was so bad. I mean, I I cringe when I look at the kind of video quality that Odinki's doing nowadays. But what was really cool about that story was that um I think AP liked it so much. And do you remember at the time they were sponsoring the 34th Street helipad here? The one that takes people from Long Island into the Manhattan? Yeah. And they they had this giant video screen, and I never saw it, but I remember Ben told me that they liked that video so much that they actually I don't know if they licensed it or they asked for permission to use it for the video. Yeah, sure. Yeah. And and they were looping it, like looping the video at the helipad in New York. So that was kind of a very cool moment of pride, you know. So that was that was really cool. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Yeah, I think, you know, before we move on, Gushani is kind of the unsung hero of of your work. I mean people may not know this. It's it's always credited on the stories at the bottom, but it's super cool that you're you that Gashani is doing all of this amazing underwater photography. People probably wonder how you are in so many of these shots. But yeah, she's she's kind of the unsung hero of of Hodinky Dive |
| Unknown | Watch coverage. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, uh if not for her, you'd see a lot of disembodied wrist shots underwater. Um and uh you know, we have fun. It's it's been a great way for us to to travel and and just do some really fun, cool stuff together. So yeah, she she likes to be behind the scenes and and you know, uh it it it's great, it's worked out really well. And and the work |
| Unknown | is incredible. Yeah, she's got really really good. With like nobody's producing like nobody's even really like I tried to do a couple like with even in some cases with your help of like an underwater dive watch review in Vancouver there's no light and everything looks like you're you know that was pretty bad. And it was just kind of a sketchy dive and like big wall dive and uh and I remember and I remember like seeing results and being like, All right, this is good enough, it's Seiko prod like it's for the seven seven seven review that I did with uh it was a blog to watch at the time and uh and like I was happy with it, but then like if you I mean if you won to one even Yeah. Yeah. Like why did I even bother? Yeah, right. Right. Like either play you like either play at a certain level or don't. And like I would say like yeah, if if you want to match what you guys are doing as a team, you're gonna have to come pretty hard. So yeah. Yeah, hats off. She's |
| Unknown | uh you know. Yeah, she does a great job. Agreed. Yeah. So Jason's been with us for a long, long time. James, I've been trying to get you to work with us for a while. Um But I guess it was a little over a year ago now? What? Last August. It would have been last August, roughly. August. Yeah. So can you tell people a little bit about that? I mean, uh we've obviously talked about it off mic, but you know, what was your kind of background in watches and then how did you end up making this uh a career? |
| Unknown | Yeah, sure. I mean uh got into watches you know a little over a decade ago. I was uh in university and uh finished university, didn't really love the whole process of being a student at that level, but I learned that I did enjoy writing and kind of the process of like taking an idea and developing it into something where the idea was what you're still offering at the end. Essays, that sort of thing. And uh and along that time, uh, you know, the other thing I found that I like is I enjoy research. I like learning about things and uh not less so like sociological studies and more so like cars and and w camera gear and and you know I I'll I'll absorb you know various amounts of information as quickly as possible when I get interested in something new. And uh and so that's very helpful in this line of work. And um Yeah it's pretty pretty necessary yeah and uh and so at the time I had a um I had a Columbia field watch a quartz thing and it died and like I I would have been yeah I would have been eleven or twelve years ago and at the time I probably knew I didn't even really realize like I guess I knew it at some level it needed a battery. But that was like somewhere around the maximum of my like knowledge about watches. Amateur amateur hour or whatever. Yeah yeah for sure for sure. And I was like, I think that was somewhere around like that was probably in the vein. Like I knew it needed a battery. I knew it operated on a battery. And in the pros I went in to get another battery, and I, you know, I think as they do, and this is why they put the little battery shops at you know your department store among all the watches, is like you're waiting for somebody to put a battery in the watch you already own, but you're surrounded by all these watches you could own. And so I walked around, I'm looking, and I'm like you know, you know, I kinda like these the looks of these ones that are a little bit more rugged. And so then I I literally just started like Googling and at the time there was no there were there's one or two watch blogs were in existence. You know, watch report was around and uh and and I dug in and learned as much as I could and I started buying and selling and flipping watches and then just the your normal progress from you know, Invicta to Citizen and Seiko and and you know, stuff that has some actual credibility and some stuff that's actually designed and and referenced of a design that came from a time when watches were required, not uh merely trinkets. And you know, the the the short of it is uh two thousand and eight May 2008. I wrote my first piece for watch report. I was with them until they sold, didn't care for the new owner who didn't know anything about watches, so there wasn't purpose anyways. It was like an SEO buy. And then by the time they sold, it wasn't even a good SEO purchase because suddenly there was a blocked watch and there was Hodenkey and there was suddenly there was like people that were operating at like this wasn't like a cottage industry thing. This was an industry. There was people with like goals to be around for say 10 years. Right? Or longer. Yeah. And uh and so I uh yeah I wrote for a block to watch for a long time and that's of course where I got to know Jason. That's where I got to know you Steven and uh and you know you we'd we'd meet up at various events because I would be covering for one site you guys would be there for another and Jason could be there for you know a few different entities at the time and um and yeah we you and I kind of became friends. I think that we saw a lot of things the same way. Totally. And had like a an appreciation for when the work was done efficiently and at a good level and and that sort of thing. And then yeah, over the years uh it it became clear that you know I wanted to make essentially a a bid for writing full time and that's a mix for me with watches and cars, which I you know, my two loves. And yeah, so in uh August of last year, you know, a few things kind of fell into place and I left what was a a day job essentially in let's be gentle and call it technical writing, but it was more like telling people how to put the batteries in their remote controls. Okay. That sort of thing. So I was pretty dry on that. And and I mean a lot of a lot of what I did at the time was um replying to the occasional email and then writing posts in another window Okay. So I was mostly you know one foot out the door from that uh that sort of career and uh yeah, made the transition and I mean the I uh the the the experiences I've had with Hodenkey are so are on such a different level. What was it like going from doing |
| Unknown | this part time to doing it full time? 'Cause I I kind of was very lucky in that I was doing this part time as a student and then, you know, moved into doing this full time sort of right out of school. Yeah. Um what was it like transitioning from this being a hobby to this being really your your career |
| Unknown | ? I mean not that different because like mentally I was very checked out of my my uh technical what m what would have been my actual career at the time. I was you know devoting a lot of time and energy for Grenado and uh and and be I was devoting a lot of time and energy into things that I found rewarding, which was uh you know going on these adventurous trips. Um I you know I had arguably my my final post with a blog to watch was this grand uh experiment uh this uh scientific exp expedition to uh Clipperton and uh with Oris. And I think that was, you know I had I had a few of those experiences where I did something that was like kind of where suddenly I felt like, okay, this is what I was meant to do. Whether it's been on a boat in the middle of the ocean or driving a car somewhere in Europe. Like I think a lot of people could say this is what you're meant to do, but when you're actually there and it feels like home, I think a lot of people can do it and it and it's fun, but it's different, I think, if you if that feels like the sweet spot for you. I don't know how common that part is, but it feels it felt very like sweet spot for me. And I think that's where I found that transition to making it a day job like supernatural. I I joked you know with the people I used to work with that about two days after I left I forgot the last like six years of my professional life. I don't I don't it all feels like I was there for a week. Nice. It was all you know, the work wasn't that interesting. And um I I don't deal well and you can attest to this at a high level, I don't deal well with bureaucracy at all. Like things can be easy or they can be hard, and if they're hard, I'll probably just not do them. Okay. Um it's good to know. But like take note. But like, you know, like I like I like when there's a process, and I don't mind if the process is complicated, but working for a big company sucks. Working for a hodinky or a small magazine in Vancouver is awesome because if you want to talk to someone, I can just talk directly to you. I don't have to wait for a big meeting with 40 people where nobody gets to say anything important. And like I just don't deal with I don't like big company structures. I I don't think I was ever designed to be like a decent employee for a large company where like you could just coast. And of course, this living, there's no coasting. Yeah. Um we're we're all sharks. You gotta keep water moving over the gills or you need to die and move on. Well I'm I mean die like you need to you need to sunset the idea that you're going to be uh uh some some some sort of a producing writer. Yeah. Uh if you're not willing to do the work. Um so |
| Unknown | and so while all of this is going on for both of you, you guys team up and do the great NATO. Yeah. How did that come about? Obviously, I know you guys have known each other through the industry, but how did it go from being like, oh, we're like, you know, we see each other at trade shows and at events to like maybe |
| Unknown | . I was gonna give a shout-out to our friend Mike Pearson. Yeah, I think we can go a step further with uh or a step further back. Definitely Mike is who connected us face to face. Yeah |
| Unknown | . Mike Pearson if uh if you don't know is the uh he's the former uh US brand uh manager for um Braymont yeah |
| Unknown | yeah. And um a Swedish dude and in insanely capable, like soup like re he was amazing at his job and like I'm sure people listening uh will know exactly what I mean when I say like the fact that Braymont's successful in the US is Mike. Yeah. Uh the guy's just very talented. He's also a really nice guy. And he uh Jason and I had traded, you know, the occasional message, you know, you had uh Paul Hubbard had bought your Pelagos, and I'm uh Paul Hubbard's uh previous writer for a blocked watch who I'm still very much friends with. And uh and so we're always kind of in touch and then it just kind of became like maybe we were on wider circle and then suddenly we weren't, and then so eventually you just end up in the same room. Yeah. And that was because of uh Mike, and that was at Basel 2013, maybe? Seemed five years ago. Yeah, so |
| Unknown | a nice little long while ago. Yeah. Of course we've only just finished episode uh we're on we're coming up on episode seventy, we've so we've we took a short hiatus. So it's been just a little over two years that we've been doing it. The show, yeah. The show. Pretty pretty steadily. |
| Unknown | And so how did you go from being friends and sort of professional colleagues at a distance to to making a show. Like what was the idea when you said Maybe we'll do a podcast. |
| Unknown | We're kinda like chatting more and more and I I adore like I've been into podcasts um and people say this, but I'll challenge you like tell me about the first podcast. You I was in like some of the first podcasts that were ever on iTunes. If you remember the very early days of like this week in tech, um when like Kevin Rose, who of course is now oddly in the same circle, but very, very early podcasting. And who we'll be seeing this weekend at HTML? Yeah, I've never met him, so that that'll be fun. Um but the uh like I can go back into university, you know, twelve, thirteen years ago, where I was I had an iPod because it had podcasting and I like that form of media. I grew up in uh a household that listened to the Canadian broadcasting uh company and and you know, or corporation, and and you had talk radio on a lot. And uh and I I kind of like it a lot. I find it a little bit uh more engaging than music or at least engaging in a more passive way. And I love that I can learn about things from an expert in a manner where I'm not reading a textbook or necessarily even reading their whole book. Like we've we had Jason Freed on Honokey Radio. like And I I want I would love to read his book and I will get to it at some point, but I like that I can just listen to an hour of him talking, which is a conversation I'll probably never get to have, just to sit down and chat with him for an hour. These kind of top thinkers. And and that's what podcasting's always brought is this kind of like top thinker to the space. And I don't think that necessarily Jason and I are are top thinkers in any given space, but if you want to talk about the four or five things that we outline as being like a Grenado aesthetic, the the the vibe, family. I think that we're so deep into those things that we at least provide a conversation that we would listen to if it was two other people from the same space. That's the rough the rough pitch, I supp |
| Unknown | ose. But yeah, you know. I think that And I I'm'm kind of uh old school kind of talk radio fan as well, but I hardly ever listen to podcasts besides besides this one of course and and and and our own. But um James uh he ha he had the real brainchild for the Grey Nado. He even had the title, uh the Grey NATO and pretty much where all my watches, so. And he does the the editing and and um so he had already had this idea of how we could do it. So we basically record at a distance um James uh in Vancouver and then myself in uh in Minneapolis and we were just doing it over a Skype conversation, hopefully with a good connection which has been you know knock on wood uh pretty reliable so far. Pretty reliable. And then some good quality microphones at home, and then we just capture each recording and then James edits it edits it together. And um you know the topics have all really flowed. I mean, we've it's been such a nice natural whatever we're into conversation. Yeah. That at first I'm I remember when we started this we I was thinking, you know, how are we going to come up with topics and keep things interesting and talk about things for, you know, and w ever every show we're like, Oh, this one'll be a pretty short one. And then over an hour. That's how it always goes. Yeah. Every single time I think like we're gonna do a forty minute show finally. It's an hour five every time. And we've done full episodes, uh quite a few full episodes that have nothing to do with watches. Which you know some people like, some people don't. And I think when we first kind of came into the Hodinky fold, uh I remember seeing a few comments like oh what you know, someone made some comment about I can't wait for James's next in-depth review of a dop kit or something because we do stuff like that. You know, we talk about backpacks and we talk about definitely trips movies and though, right? It is, ye |
| Unknown | ah. I mean that's our that's our vibe. That's that's who we've got. Yeah, I mean it's travel, adventure, |
| Unknown | diving, driving gear sometimes watches. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Okay. Is that how you would describe it? Is that the Absolutely? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause you said a minute ago it's like these four or five core ideas. Absolutely, and then and then I mean those tangentially flow into other things, like we first did a a movie club episode for episode sixty nine and that wasn't necessarily our favorite movies. Right. But it was what we think are movies that fall into the milieu of those five or six topics. It's great episode, by the way. We'll link to it in the the show. enjoy it and and we got some like in-depth emails about some errors that I made about films. So that's always fun too. It's always good. Yeah. I actually love it when people point out that |
| Unknown | you've made mistakes and it's like politely oh yeah positioned people are like, oh hey, you know by the way, like here's something you didn't know about a thing you were talking about. It's good. Absolutely. |
| Unknown | You know, I said the folk singer in uh Life Aquatic was French. He's Belgian. Uh he's not singing French, he's singing in Spanish, maybe. I think he's singing in Portuguese. Portuguese, there it is. So yeah, I got that I got that dead wrong and I appreciate the fact check absolutely. Especially s like the the fact that like eat my like my ego aside that I got something wrong, the fact that somebody would would like hear something that one of us said and like it enough or care about us enough to be like I,'m gonna open my laptop, pen a three hundred word email, like very nicely, not like no anger, no n and just like and then also added like a bunch of other color about other movies that they like and and we got a bunch of recommendations for what should be in the next five episodes of the film club should we uh you know opt to continue that as a little sub-series |
| Unknown | ? Yeah, that's been the most rewarding part of doing uh the Grey NATO has been um the feedback from listeners. And not just I I there's something about a podcast, and maybe it's the same with radio as well, but hearing somebody's voice it brings the connection closer whether you've met the person or not. And I think then when we get feedback from people, it's it's very important. It's never like a YouTube comment or like it's never snide. Yeah. Yeah. People are super nice. And and the people we've met. I mean, I meet people all the time. And I remember for a while we're trying to establish how many listeners we actually have. How big is our audience? And I judging by the people I bump into and just meet that say, I thought I recognized your voice from across the room, you're the guy that does the Grenado, and I've always wanted to meet you. And it it's it's it's uh I hate when people say it's humbling, but it is humbling to to kind of just suddenly um that level of feedback and and kindness that comes from people. And people will, you know, reach out and say, if you're ever coming through my city, I'd love to, you know, buy you a beer. I have like a I have like a uh Google |
| Unknown | keep list of like cities where people have said like if you're here and you've got nothing to do for an evening so like reach out. Yeah. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. Yeah it's it's great. I agree with you. There's something I mean I've been an an avid podcast listener also for probably about a decade. Yeah yeah. And uh and I did not grow up in a family that listened to a lot of talk radio, but uh my wife did and you know, I was into podcasts and kind of she got me into the the more MPR style and talk talk radio. It's a little closer to the microphone. It's a little yeah, it' |
| Unknown | s a little bit softer. Uh we're here with Hodinky Radio. You need a really |
| Unknown | good last name. You do. There's no James Stacy. Yeah. I have more of the uh I guess fast-paced neurotic voice than the uh soft uh close to the mic voice. But uh there is something really intimate about it, and I find that you know work,ing in media, I know so many other people in media that I often find I'm reading a magazine story and I see the byline and go, oh, that's a a friend or an acquaintance or somebody I've met, you know, once at a cocktail party, whatever. There's something about though when you hear somebody's voice, I often get the feeling that I know them, even if it's somebody I've never met before and never had any interaction with. Uh and weirdly sometimes those relationships can end up feeling more intimate than the ones that are actual two-way relationships. So just it's funny to even call them relationships because it's it's not like the other person doesn't know I exist. But yeah, it fe |
| Unknown | els that way. I think a lot I think a lot of it comes down to the there is like there's a a very strong emotional bond you form by listening, especially if you're a good listener, but even just listening to someone, and especially like, even if you're not a even if you're not like a quality listener in your life, if you listen to uh 90 hours of Jason and I talking, which isn't kind of an absurd pursuit. But okay. I don't know if 90 hours of you guys talking. But like that, you know, that that's what we've put out into the world, right? And people spend a lot of time reading your article, but I think that that's digested in a way that's not like listening, it's processing. Whereas I think a lot about podcasting is, you know, you're you're allowing or you're creating something where somebody gets in on a conversation that they otherwise wouldn't because Heaton and I would be having these conversations over text or Slack or whatever |
| Unknown | , either regardless. I mean, that's kind of the entire impetus behind this show, right? Like when we sat down and decided we wanted to do a podcast, we knew we didn't want to do a straight interview show. We knew we didn't want to do a thing where we sit down with a tray of watches in front of us and attempt to describe the look of a bunch of products on radio. everyone listening to this, like, you're welcome. Um otherwise we would have no listeners to the show. But the the idea really came about from this from this thought that we're very lucky that we get to have conversations with super interesting people. I mean in in you know, my career I I can easily say the best part of this job has not been the cool places I've gotten to travel, the interesting products I've gotten to see. It's the amazing people I get to have conversations with and I am regularly meeting people who just blow me away and getting to give people a kind of window into those conversations and that's why this show is a conversation and not an interview. Yeah. Um we just thought it would be much much, more fruitful and much more interesting. And you know, it might go places that are not, you know, the kind of standard 10 or 15 questions that everybody in this business gets asked constantly. And it's had mixed mixed results, I think, for some listeners. I think some listeners have have found certain conversations to not be watch central conversations |
| Unknown | . Like people are mul people are multiple things. Right. And I'm into things that don't land that well for Jason, right? Totally. But but wherever that overlap is for us, and there's some things where like he we learn things from each other and that kind of thing, like as far as nerdiness goes. But I think that like I don't like I never understand when I when I see a comment and I'm I know that the person who made that comment is probably the people who make these comments are listening. So like just consider your mindset when you make this comment. Right. We're like, oh that episode didn't watches or you guys should really get back to watches like I don't need to know about this. Oh, okay. I mean, yeah. I I think like you have to understand that the people who bring you Hodenkey or people who bring you TGN or people who bring you 99% invisible, like they love things. And the fact that you got on board should suggest that if they love something that you don't understand yet, there's probably something there. There's probably some meat on those bones. There's probably like we it's not just like Jason and I aren't randomly firing in the dark to hit a c hit a topic. Like there's some thought that goes into it. And it's and and and it's a natural decision. So it's like we don't have uh we don't have to talk about movies because uh criterion's paying us or something like that. It's just not the way that that things work. You're not on the criterion dole? No, I mean uh big criterions all the time. You gotta get that two, three criterion money. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, I mean like that's that like y you don't you don't go through all the movies, we didn't link them all out to Amazon. Like it's not like we're you we don't make a movie episode which is largely not about watches. Right. It's just because we like movies and you watch movies a lot and like Yeah, yeah |
| Unknown | . For sure. I mean I I I think I'm I think almost every episode of Hodinki Radio so far has received at least one comment or email of somebody saying it's their favorite episode yet. Which leads me to believe like we're doing okay. Perfect. Like not every episode has to be everyone's favorite episode. Right. But as long as it's someone's favorite episode, we're do we're doing all right. |
| Unknown | And and I think that there is there is some value in creating something that has some negative feedback. I agree. It doesn't bot like like if one percent of your audio of the vocal audience, which is again one-tenth of the actual percentage of the people who are reading it are going to be commenting and especially them being taking the time to share a negative thought. And it I'm not saying criticism is fine. Criticism's preferable because it helps you make the product better, but just general negativity. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing because at least it meant you you made a stance somewhere in the in the completely don't think about the five dollar sandwich you had three weeks ago, you think about the really good meal you had two years ago. Or the really bad meal. Exactly. Right? Yeah. So it made an impact. Yeah. Yeah, I think so |
| Unknown | . And now a message from this week's sponsor |
| Unknown | . Hello, I'm Hodinky Editor-in-Chief Jack Forster. In the early 1970s, automatic chronographs represented the newest in watchmaking technology, but at the outset, they struggled to find an audience. So in 1972, Jack Hoyer came up with a marketing campaign in partnership with Viceroy Cigarettes and the Parnelli Jones racing team and its drivers, Mario Andretti, Al Ancer, and Joe Leonard. He brought a hot new Octavia, the reference 1163, to unprecedented global success. Overnight, the 1163 became the hottest-selling wristwatch chronograph in America and secured Hoyer's position as the creator of Motorsports Chronographs, a story you can see covered in depth on Hudinky.com. This year, an all-new Otavia brings the runaway hit style of the classic 1163 right into the present day, with the unmatched style and incredible wrist presence that made the original such a classic. You can find out all about it at taghoyer.com. And now back to the show |
| Unknown | . So, kind of moving beyond the great NATO and the podcast space. I mean, we're all watch guys, obviously. So I thought it could be fun to talk about some of either your favorite stories that you've produced for the Grey Nado, for Hodinki, for for elsewhere, and some of the stories that you' kindd of would be dying to do that we can maybe hopefully we can make them happen and then if not we can figure out how to make them happen down the road. But uh do either of you have a standout we'll start with the great NATO. Do you have like a standout great NATO moment that you're just super proud of? No. I can see you guys you guys are looking at each other as if |
| Unknown | as if one of you will tip the other one off. Like uh I f I feel like the show doesn't I like in many ways, and maybe maybe this is uh discredit to us that the show doesn't swing for the fences in terms of like big content. It's about a conversation about fifty maybe fifty things in the in the tur in the span of an hour. You know, we've done some fun interviews, yeah. Which have been nice and uh I'd like to grow the interview side of it, like talking with people who fall into the general milieu of the show. But uh I don't I don't think that there's like um you know, I I I think our Basel coverage has always been pretty interesting because I think that when when you talk about Basel or SIHH, like Jason and I stand out at SIHH. Yeah. You know, we're not dressed up. Uh do you own have you ever owned a hot orology watch like a watch that would fall in like IWC, sure. But like neither of us have ever had like a Langa, neither of us have ever had like some QP or something like that. Like you've got on an old Doxa, which is much more rare than a lot of Longas or QP a general QPs out there. I'm wearing the Explorer I wear all the time. And and I like so there's situations where I think we bring a perspective that's maybe not common to the general tone of the uh overall scene. Okay. I think we've had some episodes that have |
| Unknown | fallen flat. Okay. But yeah, I I can't think of uh I wouldn't say fallen flat completely, but you know, some that maybe uh when we finished I was like, eh, I'm not sure that's gonna resonate with with a lot of people. Um but uh I would say uh generally critical. One of the highlights I think that's why you both do good work is because you're both super critical of your work. Yeah, for sure. And we're gonna record again here in New York while we're here. It it's just nice to do it face to face. I don't know there's something a little bit different about it. Um you know, we've made it work really well doing it from a distance, but um we did a uh our one time T G N summit yeah. I've owed you a second summit for a long time. Yeah. Um and I flew out there and we we did hiking, we did diving. Um we had some fruit loops, we had some whiskey and then we're going to food. We met with Jason Lynn from Helios |
| Unknown | . Yeah, yeah. |
| Unknown | We did we had some amazing food with Jason for sure. In in Vancouver. And uh and we recorded and we talked about it and it was kind of it was I think was it our first time doing it in person? Maybe we'd done it at some point. I think we'd probably done like an SIHH in the hotel room or something like that. But uh the in-person stuff is fun. And I think what was what was neat about that was incorporating some of our loves, like um you know James took me up to the top of this mountain that was purportedly the spectacular view and it was completely overcast, |
| Unknown | so we were up above the comments. Yeah. And you're supposed to be able to you know you can basically see the entirety of how sound on a clear day. It's an incredible view, but it was not great. And then the dive was okay, but |
| Unknown | uh, I always say a bad day of diving is better than a good day of doing anything else. But um i I had a couple of gear snafoos that day and whatever, but it all lends to that. Yeah, my reg could lose back and fi |
| Unknown | x it, that's right People are now seeing how the sausage is made, right? They see this like really beautifully produced podcast with like an amazing underwater photograph. But really it's about like driving back and forth and getting gear fixed and like finding a decent bowl of fruit. Yeah, eat eating Rainier cherries or candied salmon, like stuff stuff for Vancouver. Yeah, yeah. So that was good. Um and in terms of like broader stories, like from you guys have both been doing this a a decent amount of time, what what are some things you're really proud of? If we can get on the eve |
| Unknown | of H ten we'll get a little a little nostalgic. You mentioned people and for me, the stories that I've been able to do where I've met or talked to interesting people, people that have done amazing things. Um I think back to uh when I was in uh Mexico a couple of years ago and I got to go diving with Sylvia Earle. Uh who you know the legend. Meeting her was uh we was even beyond you know the things you read about her. J she was just had this incredible presence. Um that was really amazing. Um uh I the the story I I did a follow-up to recently on Charles Worley, the the World War II POW with the who got the Patek Philippe in the prison camp. You know it's these it it's I I think it's those stories that really stand out. Uh Bob Barth, the uh the C Lab diver, the navy diver, I spoke with him on the phone. That was yeah, that was a very high with him. My favorite pick for H thirty, H ten one. Yeah. Um I I I I mean to me those really stand out. I mean certainly you know uh getting to dive with a lot of amazing pieces, um the the Richard Meal uh piece that I took to St. Barth's, uh the $150,000 watch uh taking that diving was it was a thrill. But it really for me it's the people. It's it's the the as you mentioned, I mean it's that's this uh this industry has a lot of potential to be very shallow and and sort of uh superficial in many ways. But but when you go below that level of just the product um and all the people that are involved, uh I think that those have been the highlights for me |
| Unknown | . Uh so from a from a hodinky standpoint, I would say I've really enjoyed that um obviously you guys expect that I would bring my skill set and and apply it as as much as possible, but you've also given me a lot of latitude to try some stuff that was or even you just asked for things where my gut would have been to be like, nope. Not really my strong suit. So like uh I got of course I got the invite this past year uh to uh to go to uh uh Villa Desta, Concorso de la Ganza in uh in Italy and obviously the part of the request was to photograph cars which is well within my wheelhouse and it was to do uh an interview with Wilhelm Schmidt, which is a piece I'm exceedingly proud of. He was great. The great and we spoke about stuff that I I feel like we spoke about topics that are important to me and to hear hear from a perspective of somebody so vastly different than mine I always appreciate. Um and I thought that came out really well. But like I I remember like you guys also said like oh we and'd like you to do like a watch spotting slash fashion thing and I was like nah dog I can I can see you rolling your eyes again as you talk about. I like reading those posts but like at the my stress level just immediately went through the roof. Uh sorry. I uh like you hear me on the microphone and Jason will know this is like 'cause Jason's very much wired the same way, like w find on a microphone for half an hour, fine at a you know, an an event for a day. But like H ten's gonna wipe me out. I'm an introvert and mon Monday Monday I'm gonna be a monster. Yeah. Okay. That's good to know. I know exactly. I'm flying to Switzerland on Monday, so that's good to know. I will be I will be out of where you're a monastery. Yeah, yeah, well I'll just I'll become like a bit of a recluse and and that's how you recharge, right? Yeah. Um and that's why I enjoy things like editing the podcast. That's a very s like singular, that's inside your own head, that sort of thing. And uh uh I mean the big the big thing that I've learned from Hodenkey is like I like as much as the writing I adore the photography and it's been like a very long process to learn how to shoot watches but now you guys very quickly just are like well the guy can shoot a watch like he must be able to also shoot a bunch of uh Italians who can't speak English and don't understand why he's walking up, duh, staring at their wrists, and then crouching right into their midsection with a camera. And uh and again, we're not speaking the same language, everybody's dressed beautifully. It was like uh It was hot there too, wasn't it? It was 30 Celsius in the sun. All right. Uh so that's 94. Yeah. It was like 92, 94 degrees, something like that. And I was sweating profusely. So I must have looked like a complete train wreck walking up, walking up to these beautiful, you know, Italian people and Europeans and they're dressed beautifully and they've got some like $40,000 watch on their wrist and and and you're like, Oh I'd like to get a photo and then grunting at them basically. Yeah exactly. And and they're like the who is this dumb American? And like he's not knowing that you're watching not not and they they knew I was a Canadian by the time we were done talking about. You're also way politer than any of that. As polite as I could be. And uh but yeah I've enjoyed what I've what I've enjoyed is there's a comfort zone that I had established in uh you know essentially sticking to a lane, especially you, know in, a with a blog to watch. And I got to step outside that lane a few times, like the Clipperton piece is one that I'll be proud of for the rest of my life. It was thirty five hundred words and took seventeen days on a boat to produce. I was the only working journalist on the boat. Seventeen days is a serious investment in the story. Absolutely. And uh huge investment from Oris, who put me on that boat and uh and basically had the opportunity to have two seats on the boat. One went to a contest winner, one went to me. And uh and yeah, I'm I'm I'm proud of that sort of work. But otherwise I mostly stuck to a lane way of producing reviews. And uh with Hodenkey at you know, where I've where I found like a lot of uh rewarding is is there's uh there's an impetus and uh not a pressure but like an encouragement to expand. Yeah. Find all the areas you can be good at rather. But we obviously we'd still want to do a review, still want to do hands-on, still want to shoot the photos, all that kind of thing, but there's a a a lot of space there. So when it came to like um when it came to the fashion slash watch thing, you know, it worked out. I I I'm very proud of that piece. But it was like a very stressful two days of shooting those photos and and then I got to do, you know, uh sometimes I'll pitch things where like I don't actually know like there's no uh there's no general benefit to Hodenkey for like my micro brands piece, but I get more I got more feedback about that than any piece I've written in a We're gonna link |
| Unknown | all these up in the show notes too so people can go back and look at these 'cause I think these are stories that are worth looking back |
| Unknown | at and and thinking about kind of in light of what you guys are saying. So like my s my my my general like probably where I would be more or less an expert in the space is with these watches that are under about a thousand dollars and typically are the creation of one person's like d idea for design. So that's your Halioses, your autodromos, your fairers, your uh ravens, and uh and and that and that sort of thing, like things that fall into that vein. And there's now that that market used to be five and six hundred dollars, then it was five and seven hundred dollars, and then five and a thousand dollars, and now you have um Okinaoscar and Fair again uh you know cracking well into Monta, cracking well into the two thousand dollar space. So there's a market there that's expanding rapidly, but it's only enthusiasts. So when you write something that's only enthusiasts, you have to be ready to be told that you missed something or you cornered it wrong, but I got feedback from all the brands and it came together better than I expected. And uh and that so that kind of thing is nice because I had the latitude to just like I didn't have to hit a deadline with it, I just had it. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. Well I'm gonna say, you know, ahead of asking you those those questions, I had thought about kind of an and looked back at what both of you have done for for the site. And was trying to come up with with my sort of favorite things and and why and the things that I think make them Jason stories or James stories. And and it's funny, Jason, that you said the the personalities. I think a lot of people probably when they think of you immediately think of your dive coverage and the the under beautiful underwater photos, the kind of like taking something out in the world, really putting it through its paces, like it is a genuine dive review. Yeah. Um, but I agree. I think I think the stories you do with with people that involve some aspect of either an interview or spending time with people. You know, those people who don't do this for a living might not realize that those those stories are really tough to do because you know, people, if you're meeting them under the circumstances of writing a story about them, they probably have a sense of where they want the story to go. Yeah. And you as an author have have s and a reporter have some idea of where you want this story to go. And if either of those perspectives comes out kind of straight, uh totally uncut, uh it's probably not gonna be super interesting because you probably have some sort of misconception and they have some kind of ego thing going on or some kind of like self-perception thing going on. Yeah. But being able to to spend time with somebody and really like empathize with them and tease something out of them that they don't know is there is I think really powerful. And I think you do that in a really really, excellent way. And I think those stories really feel like you and anybody who gets the chance to sit down and have a conversation with you and hopefully they can hear it a little bit here, I think we'll understand that. It's it's a way of listening and a way of speaking with someone that I I think really comes through in in those |
| Unknown | stories. And I I think you know that Sylvia Earle story stands out for me because it was a mix of both. It was diving with Sylvia Earle. I mean to actually take somebody and and rather than just sit down with it for a one-to-one interview, but actually go underwater with her in arguably her most comfortable environment. |
| Unknown | Yeah, you don't get to go into space with an astronaut, you don't get in the race car with yeah with a uh Formula One driver like you have to see them ad |
| Unknown | jacent. Yeah and and ironically you know you you can't talk underwater so y it's a lot of observation and um I you know for anyone who doesn't know about Sylvia Earl just uh either check out the story or just Google her. I mean she's the most remarkable one of the most remarkable people alive today and the fact that she's still diving at age eighty three or whatever she is now was uh was really remarkable. But um yeah, I I I think those kind of stories are |
| Unknown | are really fantastic. I think no matter them. I think no matter what you write about what I've what I like about your writing and in many ways what I try and essentially copy or steal or whatever you want to call it is like there's a humanity that you bring to it. I'm very focused on numbers and specs and like a personal impression. But a lot of your work is like it's open to whatever the environment was, and whether that's uh you know Bonaire or Sri Lanka or the other people who were on a dive trip with you, like their character plays out in a piece that like might only be a couple thousand words or or fifteen hundred words. Like that that's not a lot of meat on like to work with there if you want to start including other impressions, you know what I mean? Right. And I've always appreciated that at at a high le |
| Unknown | vel. I I do think uh you know, just to riff off of that, I mean just doing the the Greenado with James, I think we've we've helped each other improve. I mean, I think we've not only in our writing, but I think just in as people. I mean I think we've been able to not to get too too gushing here and and you know sappy. It's uh I think I've learned a lot from him um with his attention to detail and his uh his technical savvy and his um the way that he writes his reviews. I I I don't pay enough attention to to the details and and it's something that in observing him work and reading his stuff has uh impacted me in a way that I'm trying to get better at that myself. And and wha sounds like from what he's saying, you know, it's worked the other way as well. So I think you know, doing the podcast has had this this unintended um side eff |
| Unknown | ect, the really positive thing. Well it's definitely for me for me it's definitely one of these things where I genuinely believe that you become the average of the five people you spend the most time with. It's a very important thing that I consider in my life. Especially as somebody who I don't have that many friends. Like I'm I'm I didn't I don't have like people I hang out with that often in Vancouver and I don't have an office I go into anymore, so we don't have like a built-in social kind of scenario. So to have to have Jason as a sounding board as uh someone who's you know been in in the the this form of a career longer than I have, so I can get advice. I can I can, you know, kind of uh glean or steal in some cases uh you know methodologies and thinking has been, you know, very valuable. And it's something I probably don't say enough, but I I don't take it for granted. |
| Unknown | I I think it's funny that you said a minute ago that like you're you think of yourself as being really focused on on specs and numbers because when I was thinking about the stories I like best from you, I think it's the ones that are personality driven and and take into account a sense of humor and a sort of um sort of like no bullshit attitude. I think you know we we've all talked about this and you know this isn't gonna be shocking to anybody listening but there's so much like fluff and bullshit and marketing in in this world and I think you do a really good job of cutting through that in a in a sort of soft but incisive way. Um I got to have some fun with that with the you guys are letting me essentially run this never ending series of gold watches. Yeah, so that's that's part of what came to mind and this this watch w was it the Mito that you shot with the Hawaiian shirt? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it's like you sent me a Slack message one day that was like: if this is super weird and you don't want to run this, tell me. Just I'll change it. I'll shoot it. I shot all these photos with a ridiculous Hawaiian shirt and I wrote about it. And like, I think it's okay, but I don't know. And it was awesome. It was like pink flamingos on the lawn, basically. Like this is this is the It worked and it's super cool. And it it I think it's a good reminder not to take these things so seriously. And even to watch like your your review of the Tudor Blackbay GMT, which I think is still to this day I think one of the greatest week on the wrists we've we've ever published. I mean I'm super proud to |
| Unknown | have been a small part of the certainly came to mind when you asked me earlier like what what but I I I cannot take credit for that because that that was the that was the product of uh you know three people plus myself in two locations working kind of tirelessly to keep everything together and to produce it and gray and then of course there's a huge amount of editing that goes into that. And that's the same thing. Like I if you want to talk about what I was personally proud of, I mean the the the talking watches with with Moki Martin. Yeah. Um I've never received so much undeserved praise. He deserves the praise And then of course Will and Gray, who produced that episode and put the cameras up and actually made me not a bumbling fool in the very hot San Diego heat that you know. Uh the people that the audience doesn't see are often the most important people. Absolutely there's no talk like I anybody can like I genuinely believe anybody on the staff could sit down and talk with a guy like Monkey Martin and he makes you feel at home. We were in his house. That was the easiest it's ever gonna be. And that's kind of the same with David Robinson. I really cheated my way into these first the first two talking watches I had to do. Because these guys were both sweethearts. They both already knew what they wanted to talk about, and they didn't care where it went or how long it took. Just turn the cameras on and like they were both personalities, they're both really nice. And all I had to do was essentially not get in their way or my own way. Just be there. Like you kind of could have done both of those to camera. Yeah. |
| Unknown | And our video team makes it so easy too. I mean, you know, Gray, who uh produces the show, and then Will and Dave on the video team. I mean, again, the the listeners, you know you don't see these guys, but these are the guys who make sure that the things that the three of us do here uh that we don't look like idiots out in the world and that these things are kind of digestible and and enjoyable to watch as opposed to just like, you know, this show could easily end up being like two hours of me babbling at somebody and absolutely keeps me in check. And I think you |
| Unknown | know, his uh James's uh Meeto review and and the video the the really great videos that uh that Hodinki's doing now, it it goes to show uh I'm not just blowing the horn of Hodinky, but I think the industry n uh our industry um writing about watches, producing content about watches, we needs to be this way nowadays. You know, it's uh that it's been we've matured enough. Uh ten years of of quote unquote watch blogs has got to get to the point where you knock things down a little bit of a a couple of pegs, you know, when you're talking about a a watch. inside or you know, the the materials it's made out of. You have to you have to talk about and show how it resonates with the people. And I think that's what's the purpose. The great videos that bring out the personalities and then just the maturity of the uh of the uh the way the content is presented. I mean these expert videos are just uh they're just amazing to me. You know so it's we're |
| Unknown | also we're also really lucky that you know it's it's obviously changed a lot since the the early days of Hodinki. I mean back to my early days about six and a half years ago, I guess. And so, you know, the days when Jason you were writing and and you know, w it was very much a a blog. And it was a blog in the traditional sense of like everybody kind of did their own work. Yeah. Everybody shot and wrote their own stories. You didn't really show it to anybody. I mean maybe like Ben would read my stuff and I would read his stuff just to make sure there were no typos, but it wasn't there was no editing at all. That wasn't happening. And you know, video was was for a long time Will running everything, often running like three camera shoots by himself like a madman for a very long time, uh asking me to like try to hold a camera steady, which is a nightmare. He learned very quickly not to do that. But uh yeah, it's it's it's gone from that to really being much more of a magazine process, and I think you know the result of that is that you know we have a meeting every week we're sitting pitching ideas figuring out who's gonna write what who's gonna help out with what you know James you mentioned the the GMT review was four four of us working on Yeah, but I mean we also |
| Unknown | got back and then Will's directly involved in in the overall scope of the project. We wanted to make it as big as possible. I overwrote it and you guys fixed that? Like I took it too far? Probably in a few being six or seven people involved in producing that story. And I mean like you look at that video and like I like I'm there's lots of people here who there's lots of people listening who haven't been in the process of like learning uh of of making a video. So there was a script and there was a plan. I mean we didn't have a shot list, but that's probably where we're headed with these sorts of projects if you wanted to do something like that, because you have a limited amount of time and a huge amount of asset being tied up in in the production of something like And yes, you need a great team and you need an idea and you need execution and you need planning and you need all of that. And luckily, like after ten years, Hodenkey's at the stage where they can do it. And like let's like we've been doing some pretty serious navel gazing here, but let's be let's be really fair, uh the team is incredible. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like we got Joe, we got Jack, we got John. I me |
| Unknown | an you talk about the you becoming the average of the the people you spend the most time with. Yeah. Let me hang out with Joe Thompson. All better forever. Yeah. I completely agree. We're all better for having everybody else on the team. And you know, I I often think I have the best job on the team. Like I'm the luckiest because what happens is, you know, you one of you guys comes up with a really great idea, pitches it, I say, Great, go go make it. You go do all the hard work. Yeah. Yeah. And then one day I get an email that says, Hey, this is ready for you. And I get to go be the first person to read the awesome thing you've done. You make it look a bit better in the CMS or whatever. A negligible amount of work. But I basically get the the good fortune of saying, that's a great idea, go do that. And then I get to be the first person who who sees it and reads it and then we figure out how we're gonna get the most eyeballs on it. Yeah. And like it's super fun. And and the excitement and surprise, like I people may not realize it, but like I get the same experience that you get as the reader or listener with most of the stuff we publish, if it's not written by me, in that I kind of know what's coming a little bit, but then it shows up and like this meeto review, like it was like, oh, okay, we'll write a little hands-on story about a meato and what we got was something far more interesting than that. And I get that same sense of surprise and delight. Uh and it's it's exciting in that somehow, you know, writing about people always ask me when I tell them what I do for a living, like, there's enough to write about watches for years and imagine |
| Unknown | how many how much how much no you say. Right. Right. We say no to a lot. So much fat gets cut away. But I still get to have that sense of excitement of like a lot of people you see a new episode of the podcast, which um you know that we we weren't on and y you were, but like or likely were, but I get excited when I see one where especially if I don't know the person's name 'cause that means somebody drew them in or like when I open the when I I don't know um I don't know sneakers sure yeah at all so I opened the I opened issue three of the magazine a magazine that I was heavily involved with but I didn't the Ronnie story and like that's next level. I'm I get to I get to d I get to dive into someone else's nerdiness at like at like a highly produced level. Putting Jack Forr |
| Unknown | ester and Ronnie Feag in the same room together might be the smartest thing any of us have ever done. I mean honestly could be. where he's about it. Yeah. Oh. Seeing you know, and I'm gonna blow up Jack's spot here a little bit. Sorry, Jack. Um seeing Jack in a room with Ronnie Feague and some of the rarest sneakers ever produced. And seeing and seeing Jack genuinely like almost drooling over a pair of LeBrons is one of the coolest professional experiences I've ever had because it's this moment where you realize whether we're talking about watches or diving or sneakers or cars or guitars or whatever, like anyone who is super deep in something has a kind of like shared personality trait. And you can you can really easily if if you're already that deep on something, it's really not a big stretch to to get that excited about something else. As long as you need somebody passionate |
| Unknown | . Nerdiness and enthusiasm, especially when you remove the money side of it. Like I don't genuinely care. Like if I write about a three hundred thousand dollar car or a nine hundred dollar Meeto, like I try and I try and operate where like it doesn't really matter what it costs because that's up to the per the the cohort that would buy it. Mm-hmm. It's about like what how's it make you feel? Like what do you get for that and and that kind of thing and then like one of Jack's absolute skills is like the dude will find what's cool and he's already in tune. Like even if he doesn't like I don't know if he knows sneakers. No, he knows something about sneakers, I'm sure but like a couple of weeks Just attack |
| Unknown | really into it. For sure. It's cool. It's awesome. And I think that's the thing that, you know, about the the Hooding magazine to continue people gazing for a second has been so exciting is that we get to meet those kinds of people and like nerd out just as nerds, not as watch nerds. Right. But uh kind of share that passion. Yeah, exactly. |
| Unknown | And like it it was enthusiasm that led you to the first thing you read about watches or the first watch you bought Tot.ally. And that doesn't die. And it's not that different than sneakers. And it's not that different than cars. It's not that different than pens or or whatever anyone else has talked about on this on the podcast. I mean like there's lots there. And and and the thing that I the other thing that I appreciate about the team as a whole, and and this is what I like. I like to see thoughtfulness in anything. And there's a lot of thoughtfulness in the process, especially in the magazine. There's it's it's hu ho uh hugely uh laborious the process. But the other thing I really like is you get um I really like strong opinions but loosely held. So I want I want to- This is why this is why we're friends. Yeah. So I want to be like, like I will say like I hate that movie. And the next three sentences could be you could change my mind. Yeah. Change my mind. It's like you know that that meme of the dude with the mug. There's a statement on the table. Change my mind. Right. I'm I'm done. Change my mind on anything. I'm game. Like I and I think like I think that when a really good idea comes across at the editorial meeting, there'll be a few people who have their minds changed. Yeah. Or three sentences later, the mind is changed. Or the person who pitched it. We also have a lot of people who love coming in really hot. Yeah. For sure.. Strong Strong opinions, no shortage. Yeah. But strong opinions loosey hell. Mark Andreessen. Strong opinions loosey hell is the way to operate. Because somebody has a different perspective than you, somebody has more information than you, somebody's flat out smarter than you. And hopefully I hopefully I'm in a room that has all three of that all the time. Yeah, I would agree. And that's what you get. I think that's what we get with this team is a lot of different perspectives, a lot of different strengths, disparate strengths, and uh like a keen focus at like, let's do somet |
| Unknown | hing good, cool, fun. So before we transition to the kind of closing segment of the show where I'll ask you guys some lightning round questions, let's look look ahead for a second. What is the next big story that each of you is super excited to work on. It can be something that's already like a dream thing or something that's in the works. Either way. I think it can be something that's either greenlit that you're like super excited to dig into or it can be something that like we'll have a conversation about after uh the mics go off about how to make it happen. |
| Unknown | I have uh I have two things. I have a uh a story coming up and I I don't know if I can share the details about it 'cause I'm sure when this episode will air and I don't want to spoil the story idea. Um but involves the Colorado Rockies and a certain very expensive watch. It's gonna be really good. Oh, this story's gonna be insane. This story's gonna be absolut |
| Unknown | ely Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this story is gonna be absolutely wild. |
| Unknown | Yeah, so I'm looking forward to that. Um uh but the other thing I've I've wanted to do, and I I pitched it a a year or so ago kind of loosely. Uh I don't know if I talked to you about it, but um I talked to a few people, uh maybe Ben and and uh and Frank, I think I talked to as well. Okay. Um was the idea of of sharing the passion of diving and dive watches with Hodinky readers. Yeah. Um and TGN listeners. Um in the form of some sort of a like a field trip. Hodinky field trip where people can sign up this idea to come somewhere diving where we will arrange obviously people will have to, you know, pay for you know certain aspects of it and whatever, but you know, you you have a sign up and you have a limited number of people that can come and if you know how to dive, great. If not, you can sign up to learn. Um, and perhaps a brand will get on board and provide some watches for people to wear, and Gashani can come along and do the underwater photography, and we can do evening QA sessions and discussions and things like that. |
| Unknown | I it's kind of a like a TGN Summit. You can go back and listen to the TGN Summit episode, but like you meet up, you do some activities, like it'd be Yeah. Let' |
| Unknown | s let's ask people in the comments on Hodinky or on Instagram or Twitter Essentially a guide a guided trip. Guided trip. If you want to come on a Hudinky field trip, let us know and we'll see what interest is. Yeah, yeah. So |
| Unknown | anyway, that's that's kind of my uh far far ranging sort of uh uh pie in the sky idea. So we'll see where that goes. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. How about you, James? Uh yeah, I mean f as for as far as things I'm working on now, I honestly couldn't tell you. My brain's a little bit uh little bit frazzled these days as far as like the the current workload, you know, a lot a lot of it's been H10 and then you know it's December, so that's always a a really you know it's a month with a lot of free hours for everyone. Um but uh yeah, I think I think as far as like uh like dream projects, I I would love to just dig in a little bit more on like finding watches and uh finding watches and getting them in their natural habitat. You know, you did a Jason, you did a piece uh with the Explorer 2, the current gen explorer to where you were climbing. Mm-hmm. And and I think there's a I think there's a methodology or a a kind of format to be derived derived from that. I always thought it would be interesting to take um you know, to tell the story of Everest with an Explorer uh like an the Explorer one um which had you know obviously has a strong connection uh but do it while you know under the backdrop of actually doing the trek to the base game. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right. And uh and so I think there's some big dreams and and things like that. And and I other than that, I, you know, I'd I'd love to see more uh I'd love to see more the stuff that kind of falls adjacent to watches, like other interests that are watch adjacent. You know, we we just ran a really amazing piece of sponsored content with IWC. And like if you s if if you're listening to this and you skip that, the photos are unbelievable. My you know, my home area, Pacific Northwest, Vancouver, uh crack team went up there and just blew the shutters out, Jay, and Walker. And I think what they made was incredible visually. And uh I love that kind of work. Fascinated by it because that you know it's it's it's uh it's something that people might only um might only take in for a few minutes of their of their day. Maybe the first time they see it, they spend 15 minutes and look at all the pictures. But that's the product of somebody's months to put together. Yeah. Co |
| Unknown | ol. Well, let's uh let's dive into the lightning round, which is how we we close up our episode. So I'm gonna ask you guys a question. You can each each answer. It can be short answer, it can be a little bit longer, but uh we'll we'll get through these and then close things up with a cultural recommendation. Good. Oh. Mm-hmm. You you worried about that one? I forgot. It's alright. You got you got a few minutes. Yeah, I got a couple come up with something. I'll dig. Um so we'll start with with Jason. What's a watch that has caught your eye recently |
| Unknown | ? twenty eighteen and I think, you know, the the the big standouts for me were the the Tudor Black Bay fifty eight and the GMT this year. And I think uh um I realize that was months ago and and much has been written and talked about those watches. But um I I I feel like it was a real standout year for Tudor and uh you know they're they're kind of in my wheelhouse in terms of um you know, watches that uh um you know, made a real impact for for a lot of people this year. Although I I do think that, you know, the as as kind of throwback watches, um you know, one could argue that it's kind of uh retreading familiar ground, but I think they did it in kind of a fresh way that that almost reintroduces that genre to to a new set of people. I would agree. Yeah |
| Unknown | . James? Uh yeah, I mean I kind of ha I have to mirror that at a certain level, like huge love for Tudor and what they're managing to do in the sport watch segment at a reasonable price point, at a price point that appeals to enthusiasts. Obviously they',ve sponsored the show before, so that's a like an an easy sort of choice as far as like it it's well within the milieu of the sort of thing that we love, Jason and I. And and uh beyond that, I I book got my first Doxa uh this year and I I think that that sub 300 is definitely my watch of the year personally. Cool. I mean it's endless like endless charm for $2,000, $2,200, something like that. I mean find find me something if you like a sport watch, you like a dive watch. Find me something more charming than that sub three hundred, I challenge you, because I don't think it exists on the market. Certainly not for the money. Uh I think that's the winner for me. Swe |
| Unknown | et. Uh we'll start with James on this one. What's the best place you've traveled in the last year? |
| Unknown | That's a tough one. I'd have to look at my calendar. It all blends together at a certain point. Um Uh it's funny because I'm I'm tempted to just say New York because I you know my my experience I I grew up in tr near Toronto for for you know people listening roughly Toronto and live in Vancouver currently and um uh yeah, I mean I I really like coming to New York. I like working here, I like obviously the team and everything. I mean as far as a place to actually go, I would say um Bavaria. So that part of Germany um has been really great for me. I I drove uh this is uh this is privilege. Um I drove uh seven hundred and fifteen horsepower Asimartin DBS. As one does. I mean if you can. Yeah. Please do through a sunny summer day in uh in Bavaria. And I mean that car makes sense in Germany. Germans like that car. You're not gonna you could get yourself into some trouble. You're not gonna get yourself into like the same sort of trouble you get into over here. And um and yeah, the the it's right on the edge of the Alps. Uh I had a similar drive through uh Kitzpool from Kitzpool, Austria down into um down into Italy and then back uh towards Munich and and I mean if you can get to that part of the world when the weather's good or or if I suppose if you're skiing go in the winter. Um but if you can get to that part of the world and go for a drive, do a mountain pass. That's what I'd say. My answer is a mountain pass. You pick the one. Don't do it in Switzerland. Um if you get to the ones in Switzerland, you'll get you'll have speeding tickets or or camera tickets by the time you get to the mountain pass and they'll be very expensive and then you'll get there and the mountain pass will be full of cyclists, so you're not going to be able to drive that fast, anyways. Um, but do uh I did uh Gross Glockner in uh in Austria. I've done I can I don't remember the name of the one in uh in Bavaria, uh, but there's you know there's there's lots of great driving roads there and I honestly think you could have fun in a rental car. I don't think it has to be an Aston Martin. I don't think it has to be a New Continental. I don't be a Ferrari or anything like that. Um I think it that it's gorgeous and uh they're driving roads meant to be driven, they're beautifully maintained. Uh the scenery's incredible, bring a camera, pack a lunch. Um, but if you're if you end up in any of those places, if you're near any of these cities, uh Munich, Kittspool, Austin, you if you're if're if you're around, uh take a day and do a see a mountain pass. Great. How about you, Jason |
| Unknown | ? Um it was a it was a good year for me, uh travel wise. Uh but I I think a real standout for me was uh it was actually a a tiny uninhabited rock that juts out of the eastern Pacific Ocean called Roca Partida. Okay. It's uh in Spanish it means uh split rock and it looks like a giant manta ray coming up out of the out of the ocean. It took uh it uh took an overnight boat ride from another remote archipelago of islands uh in the Pacific to get to it. Um and we dove on it for two days living on a boat and it it it's it's just primeval. I mean it's like Jurassic Park. Um the the diving there was very tough, uh uh very athletic diving. It's high currents and and it's deep and it's it's fairly cold and uh That's part of the Riviera Gettos, correct? Yeah. Yeah, and but it's like as far west. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And i it's uh it's probably one of the last places on the planet that you can see huge schools of um of tuna, you know, uh hunting, um, just you know, manta rays swooping around, uh, whale sharks, all sorts of, you know, just incredible pelagic species. Uh just it it it felt I think uh the sense of uh certain element of danger was there and it sort of heightened the you know, it gets you sort of uh your synapses are firing, your sort of your antennae are up because you you feel like at any moment if I get blown off in the current, uh no one's gonna find me and so you you're very conscious of being in the moment and and taking care but in the in the meantime you know every every place you look around you underwater there's just just this incredible life um and it was a real privilege to to dive there. It was a a nine nine day live aboard trip with uh with some pretty amazing divers, courtesy of uh Blanc Pond back in May. So that was my highlight for for for 2018. Very n |
| Unknown | ice. All Al rightrig.ht, we'll we'll keep this going back and forth. So we'll start with you on this one, Jason. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received and who gave that advice to you |
| Unknown | ? Ah, okay. Um there was I had a uh I had a a uh really good boss. Um one of my first jobs, I was a technical writer for a packaging machinery company, so I used to write uh manuals for uh big machines. And um uh I was going through a particularly tough time in my life at that point, and I remember my boss, who actually was not based in Minneapolis but used to fly in regularly, um, took me out for dinner one night and I was kind of pouring my heart out and talking about um some things that were going on in my life at the time. And at the end of the evening, I think I was apologetic. I was saying, you know, sorry, I'm you know bearing my soul and telling you all this stuff. And she said, she said, you know what, Jason, it's all one life. There's no separation between work and home and fun and pleasure. And I think it meant something at that time for what I was going through, but it also was good advice for where we are now. I mean if if you're if what you're doing for work is the same as uh brings you a great amount of pleasure and it it's uh enriches your life, it should, you know. And um that that lack of separation as you kind of move through your day and through your year um has always stuck with me and I've tried to kind of make that my personal credo. That's great. Yeah. I love that. James, how |
| Unknown | about you? Yeah, I could start by saying I don't remember who gave me this advice. Okay. But I've lived by it for a long time and I think that I've seen it's one of these few things that a that has allowed me to like escape some of the scourge of uh entitlement among especially among millennials, um, is uh you're owed nothing. And I think about it a lot. Uh I think that I think that the idea that I like I think there's a difference between wanting and believing that you're owed something. And it's one thing to want something, it's another thing to believe that you should just have it by nature. And yet you see this behavior all the time. Yeah. And I find it upsetting, I find it um problematic to correct for. It's very difficult to convince somebody they're not owed something that they believe they're owed. Sure. Right? But even if you go to even if you go to a scenario where technically you are owed something, like say customer service at uh a big box retailer or something like that. The way that people behave is just it's it's it's just kind of insane. Yeah. Um in terms of the fact that like you're you're you just aren't owed anything in this life. So what you get, you either um ask for and I believe very strongly in asking for what you want, and I think the rest of the time you need to process what it is that would like maybe make you happy and then make have make some sort of a plan, steps to get to that to get that to that stage because um I you know I'm in my early thirties now and uh and like you you have to I I've learned many times that like you're not owed the job that you want. You're not owed the car you want. You're not owed the amount of money that you want. You're not owed anything. You have to get up in the morning, decide what you want from that day, and try and make it happen. And so if you're if you're listening and we we get asked, and I'm sure Steven you you get asked like how do how do I get your job? Or somebody you I explain in three sentences what my job is and they go, Oh, nice life. And you're like, Yeah. It's a great life. And you know what? And my general second sentence, if it's somebody that I don't mind talking to is like eventually the music's gonna stop and I just hope there's a chair. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or or like you have to every single time is another interview. Every piece of work is another interview. And uh and I believe that even if you're in a normal work day, every single day is another chance to like establish the fact that you're worth something, that you're doing good work, that you're putting something out in the world. And uh and but I think if you operate from a position where like however it goes, you basically got there based on your actions, is is is a is a better way of operating than assuming there's some fate or some destiny involved in it. I can't find any f any um any truth in the latter. N |
| Unknown | ice. Well before we do the cultural recommendation, one last question, and that's do either of you have a guilty |
| Unknown | I'll defer to James on this. I |
| Unknown | 'll have to think on that. I mean I I'm like people who know me know I'm a man of many proclivities. Oh boy. Um I I would say like it like We have another we're gonna have another one hour show after this where James talks about those many proclivities. The easy one is probably like I love gummies. Oh yeah. Uh like haribo. I love um like if you have a Whole Foods, I've not been able to find them in Whole Foods in in the States, but m the Whole Foods near my place in Vancouver has these juice berries.' There likey dark red kind of gummies, and there's there's a sour variety that's not actually sour, it's just sugared, and there's a non, which is just like shiny, and you buy both and then mix them together. Okay. And that's just about as good as I don't know you, can't call it food, but whatever whatever it is. Hodiki Radio, the gummies episode coming coming soon. You can't you can't really call that and you know I I I like that. Uh I've certainly quite a few uh Haribow devotees. Absolutely, yeah. It's a real twin snakes vibe happening at Honoku's office. Um which I'm I'm about, especially when uh yeah, shout out to uh uh Saint Cara, she put him in the freezer. She just did, yeah. It's a pro move. It's a game changer. She's operating on a different level for sure. Wow. She knows gummies. She knows her way around some gummy. Does it break your teeth? A little bit, yeah. Yeah, you gotta treat it you can't treat it like a gummy at that point. You gotta give it a minute. You gotta give it a minute. You gotta give it a minute. It's a new it's a kind of a n different game. But the um you know that I'm certainly not you know I I appreciate some whiskey here there which isn't something that I would necessarily Yeah I don't think you have to feel guilty. I don't know that's a necessarily guilty pleasure. Life cereal cereal is my cereal in general. I'm |
| Unknown | sure that's a guilty pleasure. Um if there's a guilty pleasure in the context of of Hodenki, maybe it's uh quartz watches. All right, that's fair. You're laugh. Absolutely. |
| Unknown | Cool. So let's wrap things up. Let's do a cultural recommendation. James, what uh what are you watching, reading, listening to, telling other people about these days |
| Unknown | ? Um I mean like the this is one where I I it came up in a conversation the other day, and so th I'm essentially put recommending what either was or should have been a blockbuster film, so this may not not be a big swing for everyone. But the more people I talk to about this movie, the more they're like, it wasn't good. Okay. And here I am, here's my here's my bold statement. Prove me wrong, Blade Runner, twenty forty Movie's great. I adored it. People didn't. And yet most people tell me it wasn't great. I've seen it. You're talking to the wrong people. I mean, this is probably the case, but you know, I like I bet you I've seen it well over ten times at this point. Wow. And I think it's some of the finest cinematography on record. Period. Movie. Any movie. Um it's pretty amazing. The use of color is incredible. I think the acting is incredible. I think the story works amazing. It's my favorite working director, my favorite cinematographer in the world. And uh you know, same dude that did Skyfall, which is also a gorgeous film that wasn't necessarily a perfect movie otherwise, but looked uh like I mean just unbelievable. It's unlike it you get to you get lost, but you can like you can get lost in just simple seconds. But I'll find that like not only is it on planes 'cause it's Blade Runner, I love the old Blade Runner and I adore the new one. And if you if you saw it and you liked it then I guess we're I'm not talking And then at J |
| Unknown | ames on Instagram. On Twitter. Twitter. Yeah. I'm not on Twitter. Oh, perfect. |
| Unknown | Add him in the comments on some random story. Yeah, for sure. Um but yeah, I would say I would say it's something where like the more people that I chat to about this movie when movies come up, it's like very it seems divisive. Okay. And I think like I think that it it's uh I think it's nothing short of a work of art. It it's probably the last movie of its entire genre that will do use miniatures. So instead of just using computers, they spent twenty-five plus million dollars like making miniatures like they did for the original Blade Runner to lend a certain amount of authenticity. Um gosling, I'm never not gonna go to bat for Gosling, fellow Canadian, you know, Ontario boy, like bring it on. Like the the it's great. Where's the sick watch? Great movie. Yeah, fantastic watch for sure. Uh so that that's that's my swing is um for for all of all of you out there who either don't like sci-fi or like flat out didn't blade around watch it again. Alright |
| Unknown | . How about you Jason? Well I was gonna do a movie, but um I think you can still do a movie. Well I think I'm gonna switch to a book because winter's coming and this is uh book season. This is the it's book season, but it's also the time when I dust off my collection of uh the polar literature. Okay. I love I love a good book about suffering in the Arctic or Antarctic, you know, especially liv living in Minneapolis. As we as we all do. And I just got a new one. And and I've just cracked it, so I haven't even finished it. But it's uh it I I love the author. Uh the author's name is David Grant. He wrote um The Lost City of Z, which they made into a movie uh a couple of years ago. Um he's uh I think he won National Book Award or Polish City. Incredible book. Um great book. But I'm gonna recommend his latest, which is called The White Darkness. And it's uh I saw you uh put this on Instagram. It's uh it's uh it's actually a short little compact book. I I you know, usually when I travel nowadays, books are just they don't quite fit in the in the bag, but this is just a slim little volume, it's got some great photos in it. Um and it's about a recent expedition, fairly tragic, in which a descendant of one of uh Ernest Shackleton's crew from the early 1900s became obsessed with Shackleton as sort of a mentor, you know, read everything he could about him and to the point where he wanted to retrace his steps and and actually cross the Antarctic continent. And um he was a a British Army uh veteran, um very skilled, very and he'd done a couple of polar expeditions in the past, but he wanted to do a solo crossing of the Antarctic continent. Uh just uh twenty twelve, I think it was. Wow. Actually no probably more recent than that. Um so this book is is a very poignant, sympathetic sort of look at this guy's life and and sort of this obsession he had with Shackleton and this sort of noble, sort of old school explorer, sort of gentleman explorer sort of sense that he had. And uh I read there was sort of a version of the book or sort of an excerpt that was published in uh in a magazine, I think it was the New Yorker or Vanity Fair or something that uh that just made me really want to read the book. And a friend of mine just gave me a signed first edition of it, so I'm really excited about it. So yeah, check it out. Awesome. W |
| Unknown | hat you got? I'm gonna recommend the total opposite of that for winter, which is like the cushiest possible thing that I love in winter. Um I just made a reservation at this restaurant, which is why why I was thinking about it. Um we go every year for my my wife's birthday, but um if you have not eaten the chicken at the Nomad Hotel, you are doing life super wrong. Okay. This is probably the only time I order chicken at a restaurant. Like I I'm'm one of those people who's like like, uh I love a good roast chicken, but like, why would I order chicken at a restaurant? Usually for two people, it's a pain in the ass. It's a whole thing. The roast chicken at the nomad is unreal. There's like a truffle brioche breadcrumbs foie gras situation that they put under the skin and then they roast it. It's like it's a whole thing, but it's just like it's unbelievable. I have a once or twice a year and it's unbelievable every single time. I made a reservation. It's still almost a month away from when we're recording this. And I am like actively excited about this meal like hourly as we as we head get closer to it. So I would say if you haven't had this, it's one of my favorite meals in the world. I think there's restaurants, one of the best restaurants in New York City, if you want like a really you know elevated, nice experience. It feels they take great care of you. The service is awesome. Um so yeah, I would recommend go to the nomad on like a cold night with somebody you like, get the chicken for two, hunker down. Brooklyn Brewery does a special beer paired with the chicken that is only served at the nomad. Get the beer. Um it's great. It's like if you if you want a nice meal out in the city this winter, to me that's doesn't get any better than that. Super. That's awesome. |
| Unknown | I think they do actually. I think they take walk ins. Can I get it for takeout? You actually might be able to. Okay, great. It's not a it's not a press at |
| Unknown | the table scenario, French style? It's not. It's not a press press at the table situation. They do bring the whole bird out to you and then take it back to the kitchen and carb it. But yeah. You do see people like walking around the dining room with like whole chickens. Do you |
| Unknown | ever do you ever like nope start over? Maybe I should. Like what's the act of bringing you already cooked the bird? I wonder if anybody's ever done that. Just been like, nah, I don't like this one. Like it's not like picking a lobster at the restaurant. Right. Like I don't need to know the bird's name. I don't need like I know what a chicken looks like. So we prefer not to know the bird's name. Sure. Yeah. It's up to you. Yeah |
| Unknown | . All right. Cool. Well, uh thank you guys for joining us. This was super, super fun. Um we obviously like talk all the time, but to get a chance to sit down, no distractions, no interruptions and talk shop for a little while is is really nice, especially as we head into the wonderful madness that's gonna be the H ten weekend. This may be the last time the three of us have a conversation with one another this weekend. Yeah. Enjoy the quiet of the studio here. Yeah. Three of us enter, one of us will make it out, maybe. Two of us are are casualties. My money is excitement. Yeah. Oh. Jason for sure. You and I are toast. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um cool. Well, thank you so much, guys, and uh thank you. All right. Thanks. Thank you again to Jason and James for joining us. This episode was recorded at Miritone Studios in New York City and was produced and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show, it really does make a difference. Thank you, and we'll see you next week. |