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Reviewing 6 Of Our Own Watches With Ben And James

Published on Thu, 30 May 2024 16:55:00 +0000

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Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Tony Traina is joined by recurring guests James Stacey and Ben Clymer for a three-person discussion about watches and recent collecting activities. Ben opens by recapping his recent travels, including speaking at the Financial Times Business of Luxury Summit in Venice alongside notable figures like designer Marc Newsom and car broker Simon Kidston, as well as attending a Universal Genève collector gathering in Geneva organized by Breitling, which now owns the brand. Ben discusses the revived enthusiasm among UG collectors and shares his optimism about the brand's forthcoming relaunch.

The main segment features each host sharing two watches they've recently acquired. James presents a Swatch Scuba Fifty in black and an orange Seiko Monster, reflecting his nostalgic approach to collecting and preference for affordable, fun pieces. Ben showcases a Hodinkee-exclusive Unimatic carbon diver given to employees for the company's 15th anniversary, and more significantly, a Rexhep Rexhepi Contemporary Chronometer 2 in platinum with black enamel dial—a deadbeat seconds watch he describes as possibly the most exciting new watch he's ever purchased. Ben offers extensive praise for Rexhep's combination of innovation and traditional craftsmanship, comparing his work favorably to independents like Philippe Dufour and F.P. Journe.

Tony contributes a Swatch Neon chronograph (the Neo Wave model) and a 1970s Cartier Tortue, discussing the appeal of vintage Cartier from the era when production scaled up, and explaining why the Tortue's slightly larger size and distinctive turtle-shell-inspired case shape appeals to him more than the more common Tank. The conversation touches on broader themes including the current state of the watch market, the value proposition at different price points, and the personal versus investment considerations in watch collecting. The episode demonstrates the wide spectrum of watch enthusiasm, from sub-$500 Swatches to six-figure independent watchmaking.

Transcript

Speaker
Tony Traina Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Hodinky Radio. We're running the three-man weave today. I've got two of our favorite recurring guests from the Hodinky verse here to talk watches and everything else. First of all, from the Great White North, James Stacy, how are you doing? Better. We love to hear it. If we're honest, this is the second time recording the intro. James didn't bring the intro, or the energy, I should say, quite as much as the first time. But we're gonna get him back too. It was way better. It really looks way better. It really was. I'm still bringing it. James is going to come up to match my level at some point. But if James isn't bringing it, no hope have no fear because Benjamin Klymer is on the line as well. Ben, how you doing? In the house. I'm doing great, man. How are you? I'm doing well. Not as good as you though, because while I've been driving around the Midwest, the greater Chicago area, doing all kinds of fun things here you've been doing some other things i've seen you in geneva i've seen you strolling the canals of venice doing all kinds of interesting things and i just want you to sort of give the folks a a recap of what you've been up to. Maybe give us some some insights into what's going on in the world of watches and in the world of Ben Klymer, I suppose. In the world of Ben Klymer, that's a really good question, Tony. So
Ben Clymer my most recent trip, uh of which I've returned from yesterday, uh, was to Venice, Italy. I was there, I was invited to speak on a panel at the Financial Times Business of Luxury Summit, which is exactly what you would think it is. It's basically like all kind of upper level management from luxury companies around the world. CEO at Prado was one of the keynote speakers, Mark Newsom was another. Um, one of the founding family members of the Karen Group was there, et cetera, et cetera. I was on a panel hosted by none other than Mr. Nick Fulkes, the legendary uh bon vivant and journalists from the FT and elsewhere, uh, along with Simon Kidston, who's arguably the car broker to the stars. He sold the most expensive car in the in the world of 130, I think 130 million euros last year, which is kind of kind of wild to think about. Um and uh a wonderful woman named Anthea Piers who's the head of Christie's for Europe, uh the Middle East and Asia. Um really amazing group of people. Um obviously talking about watches, you know, the everybody in the room was was very well versed in greater luxury but i would say not super well versed in the idea of of you know i would say the the world of watch luxury if that makes any sense you know to to them the the most uh extravagant watch in a world in the world was was an aquanaut or Nautilus. I saw a lot of guys wearing those, and uh to be clear, those are amazing watches. Um, but Nick Folks and I were discussing Retcher Precepi and Philippe Dufour. Daniela Dufour actually attended the the panel last year. Um and you know it was pretty eye-opening for for a lot of these guys to see kind of what like the the next level of of watchmaking uh was and overall just a wonderful experience. So thanks to the FT for having me for that for sure.
Tony Traina Uh you know there's uh any number of follow-up questions I could ask. Mark Newsom, though, is a fascinating character to me. I spoke to him about a year ago about ICOPOD and all of his endeavors into the watch world. Did you happen to attend his little speech or whatever he he did?
Ben Clymer And if so, I sadly did not have to fly I had to fly out early, sadly, but I'm I I've known Newsom for for many years. We did the the pen together, we do the hourglass together. That's a Newsom clock right back there. I have another one over there. So I'm I'm a fan for sure. He and I went to Japan together once uh on a trip with Apple and AirMez, many, many years ago. So know know him quite well. And you know, just kind of one of the, you know, one of the designers of of of our lifetime. And of course, his contributions to Apple products, which goes, you know, I wouldn't say unnoticed, but it's not something that people discuss a lot, his relationship with with Johnny. I've, you know, self-described best friends, um, is is super powerful. So I'm sad I missed that one, but I'm sure it was a greater chat. Well, we'll leave it
Tony Traina there for now. Ben, one more thing though. One more thing. Before that, you were in Geneva for uh something I saw a little bit posted about on on Instagram from various collectors uh around. Also on our own site, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh yeah. Did did you read our site or no ton? I actually wrote that story. Oh man. Uh pleading the fifth on that one, Ben. Wow. Uh that's right. That's right. For the best coverage of what I'm about to speak of. Of course you would visit hodinky.com and you would visit and see Ben's photos. But Ben, we're really, we're really drawing out the lead here. You are in Geneva. You are in Geneva or uh I guess it was a collector's get together for the newly sort of acquired universal Genev that's now under the the umbrella of Brightling. I'm wondering if you can give us any peek behind the curtain of what UG collectors are sort of talking about right now. I assume you're not gonna be able to give us much of a peek into the product or the marketing or the relaunch or any of that type of stuff. But the colle
Ben Clymer ctors, give me something. Yes. So I have to plead the fifth on on kind of what we saw in Geneva with with the team there. But I can say that Universal Geneva as as a category of collecting is alive and well. Um you know I think for so many years it it kind of languished. You know, it was really, really popular when vintage was really popular. You know, it was like if you couldn't afford Paul Newman, you could buy a an Ina Rint or something like that. Um and of course, like then there's the tri-compacts and the early stuff that looks like the 1518 and 2499s. And then it just kind of fell off because the vintage watches kind of fell off. And now with the with the reintroduction of Universal as a modern contemporary brand in in the Brightland group as we're calling it um you know the the passion is alive and well it was obviously a first love of mine and remains a strong love of mine I still have quite a few of them. Um it got me excited to talk about a brand that I haven't really spoken a lot about or thought a lot about in recent years. So just an amazing experience. You know, a lot of well-known names are were were there with me. Of course Eric Wind, Auro Montanari or John Goldberger, Max Bernardini,. um Mr A on Instagram, if you know him, uh quite a few other guys that are known in the community as as universal lovers were there as well. It was just a fun, dorky day, if that means anything. And I say that lovingly, of course it was just a really dorky vintage watchy day. And it was awesome. But yeah, Universal is coming back not so soon, but soon enough. And it's gonna be it's gonna be real. Like this is a real brand. This is not a passion project, I can tell you that
James Stacey . Ben, of course I remember it from sorry, go ahead, James. I was just gonna add the don't don't skip the story that Ben put together because the photos are killer. And Ben doesn't shoot for Hodinki as much as he did at one point. But I I edited that story and it was zero work to edit it, which is a a treat, of course, but the photos are just if you like vintage watches in general, even if you don't necessarily have a personal taste for UG one model versus another one, get in there and scroll around. It's a it's a a bit of a treat that way.
Ben Clymer Can we get that linked up in the show notes, Tony? Is that possible? Of course. You know, you can just go to www.hardinky.com to find the structure. I
Tony Traina don't even think you need the www anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah. Ben is well known for submitting the cleanest copy and the best photos in all the land. I'm not sure a copy editor has ever taken a hatchet to anything he's ever written. So check that one out. For those that
Ben Clymer was that like was that a joke or was you being sincere? I don't even know anymore with you telling me we'll never know. We'll never know. None of us will never know
Tony Traina . One final question for you, Ben. For those who haven't seen the article or had hit the show notes, what what does Ben Clymer wear to a Universal Genève get together
Ben Clymer ? What did I bring? I I brought a few things. I wore a black dial aero compact spillman case, super radium-filled, just like total you know testosterone killing uh uh type of thing. Uh and then I brought my Corelli split, which is you know one of my favorite watches of all time. Um, I brought a few other ones as well. I didn't bring the Graves uh tri-compacts, which everybody wanted to see, but I didn't bring that one for whatever reason. But there were some crazy watches there. I mean, universals, there's so many weird designs. Uh, Eric Wynne had a few that are now, I think, available on his site that were really neat. He had two Aramez signed watches, which are really cool. I've owned some of those in the past. Um Yeah, just some fucking cool, cool old watches
Tony Traina there. Yeah, I saw he posted the film compacts that had sold at at Phillips a couple of years ago. Yeah. Uh it's funny how I mean to your point it sold for around seventy grand at Phillips. Yeah. He he listed it at about fifty five. So to your point about the market sort of being stagnant. Uh yeah. And look at
Ben Clymer that. I haven't I haven't checked his website today. Uh but I'm my guess is that watch is still available at fifty five. Uh you can correct me if I'm wrong. Um these watches are amazing. They they really are. The film compacts in particular is is is, you know, I think most of you guys know it's one of the rarest versions of of a universal out there period. But it's still a lot of money. You know, and I think that the the challenge with universal that I think a lot of the uninitiated never really understand is like Universal was not a high-end brand. It was not a competitor patch to Pat Tech, like at all. If you open a the case back at any of these watches, with the exception of the split second, you're looking at really rudimentary, very solid in-house movements, but like the finishing is not like a like a lot. There's this like there's this trope that people think it's like, oh, it's it's another Petec Filipa. Like it's really not. Um, so I mean the rarity of a foam compact is is extraordinary, but the the quality is is just not where we're we
James Stacey 're obviously we're we're pets. Like uh Ben obviously UG's coming back but if they weren't what modern brand would you liken them to today? Is it more of like a long jeans thing? High quality product pretty similar h
Ben Clymer igher than yeah for sure I I would say uh okay yeah yeah I mean like like really like quality stuff at scale uh you know a a a level or two below you know the the hotorology, the AP PacTec Vatron. Um but you know they like the the the name Universal kind of says it all like it really was, you know, kind of omnipresent or ever
Tony Traina present. Two final points before we move on. Number one, uh, the film compacts is listed as on hold on Eric's website. Uh and then the second one, as you mentioned, Ben, these are very rare watches. And I even wrote them up on the site uh late late last year, as I'm sure you recall and you read the article and reread it, less than like a dozen or so have ever surfaced. But it's just fascinating. I bring this up because one appeared at auction late last year and that one sold for like twelve thousand dollars or something. Yeah. In much worse condition than this one. So it just like it's it's shows sort of the the importance of condition in yeah. I mean like collecting
Ben Clymer watches. I I I had a film compact many years ago that I paid like nothing for. And the reason I bought it was because it was cheap. You know, it w it wasn't a super clean example at all. Um, but like it's it was just so rare. And I found one like kind of off the off the beaten path. So I was like, all right, fine, I'll I'll buy it just to kind of check the box. Um, but yeah, I mean, universal, you know, you find something that in really amazing condition, it can fetch real dollars for sure. Um, but if it's anything but spectacular condition, it's it's it's tough for sell
Tony Traina . Well that's some fun travel catch up, guys. I think that brings us to what I think is going to be the main topic of today's conversation. I gave you all some homework to bring to the show before we before we decided to record. Um, basically, the idea is then a couple of months ago, we published your week on the wrist of the Laman Daytona, the white gold Lamont Daytona. And you made just sort of a comment at the beginning of it that it was kind of a week on an owner's wrist, which is something we don't typically do. Um, for a number of reasons, right? I think it's not it's not terribly interesting often to write about the watches that we own. I mean, we're just we're just but but a few humble sort of enthusiasts or collectors at the end of the day. But at the same time, people are sometimes curious, like what we're interested in nowadays, what we've perhaps even purchased. So, so I took the note that you left in that article to heart. And I thought we'd kind of do an audio version or an audio play on that. And I asked all of you to to bring two watches to the table uh that you'd recently acquired and basically that was the entire homework so uh we're gonna get into that in a second but before we do that guys I thought I just wanted to do like a sort of a a pulse check basically. Where you're at with your enthusiasm towards watches, where you are in your collecting journey, if you should be so bold as to call it something like that. Uh yeah. You know, maybe maybe Ben, I mean you're just you're just chomping at the bit here. So why don't you just get get it started? Where do I even begin? What what where what question do you want me to answer first, Tony
Ben Clymer ? Did I ask did I do the the worst thing and ask a a a compound question there? There were there were a few questions in that one. So where am I in my collecting journey right now? Sure. Let's go with that one. So I'm I'm in the less is more phase right now, still actively buying watches, but I'm I'm for every watch that comes in, I'm trying to replace two or three. If that makes any sense. So one thing's come in, one thing comes in that eliminates my desire to own at least two other watches or that provides me the ability to sell two other watches. So that that's why I am now. So less is more um trying to whittle the collection down to a much smaller number. I'm not going to share that number here because this might make for a story down the road that will leave people in shock and awe how few watches we're talking about here. Um but my my wife and I actually did an exercise recently and as as recently as in fact today, uh, of me trying to get the collection down to like a very small number. Um so that like we can kinda read some of the yeah, it's a six, seven hundred is over thing, six seven hundred thousand. Um So yeah, my my goal now is to do lessons. So um I can give you an example. So I'm getting a Cartier later this year from Cartier, like an NSO Cartier that that I you know designed or modified or whatever. And that will allow me it it allowed me the willingness to sell the centre, which Philip sold pretty well, in fact, uh last weekend in Geneva, and allows me to to you know forget the idea of having this urge to collect vintage cardiac because I've got one Cartier that's mine, it's gonna have my name on it, it's gonna have actually somebody else's name on it as well. Um, and uh and that will be my Cartier for forever. Um and so that's kind of my thinking now is like still purchasing things, but really only watches that mean a lot to me or the people that that that uh that helped create them. J
James Stacey ames, same question to you. Same question to you. Yeah, I mean, you know, both of you guys have known me for a while, Ben certainly for quite some time. I I'm not really a collector with a capital C of anything. I just follow the whim of what essentially the seven year old inside my mind just decides to do with whatever money is available at that time. Uh doesn't really have a plan. Um in terms of like watches that I got or like the the kind of mode I'm in, like I I would be with Ben, you're you're much better off focusing on a less is more strategy, buying watches that you'll actually wear. You know, we can't change the number of wrists we have, so that's that's always something to try and keep in mind. Um but I do uh yeah I I would say lately my fascination with watches has been largely either just fingollow little whims or or sort of uh re experiencing things that maybe I had forgotten about from a decade ago and that that'll come up in some of the stuff we'll talk about in in a little while. But no no real plan. Definitely c trying to consolidate or or not you know get rid of share, move on, sell, etc. Things that like I don't I don't get a chance to wear that often. Um I kind of hit a weird inflection point when I bought the Pelagos 39 in that it kind of turned down my interest in sports watches on like at a certain price point. I still love the stuff under a grand because I think that's interesting and I think it speaks to people who are just starting out and there's the the selections are really strong. But I think you know, beyond that, I think you'd have to spend a a pretty considerable sum of money to get something that I would consider to be like materially b uh significantly better. Um and and I would say that kind of stalled me out a little bit for the last little while. But there's certainly lots to focus on and enjoy. How long have you had the Pelagos 39 now, James? Like a year and a half? Just over a year.
Tony Traina Yeah, March of last year. I picked it up. So James, maybe we'll just stick with you for a second. And as I said, the homework was to bring two watches you've recently acquired, and we're just going to talk about them. Sort of hopefully the goal is to do honest reviews about them, the good, the bad, any regrets we've got, and then uh maybe to lend depending on what the watch is, I don't even know what you guys have, nor do you know what I brought. Uh it'll lend itself to sort of more meta discussion about uh about watches. So James, kick us off. Watch number one
James Stacey . Yeah, for sure. So uh knowing that I was gonna be on with Ben, I wanted to represent a different side of the market than I figured Ben probably would. Uh, what do you think I'm going to represent? I'm not really sure. Actually, because you left yours as TK, so I don't know, but I figured you know, like I know some of what you've gotten recently. Uh just in Tony's notes.
Tony Traina Yeah, but show that uh that we try to operate on. Uh it's at www
James Stacey . But yeah, the uh the so I I went with two fairly inexpensive watches and both of them bought for entirely different reasons. So we're gonna kick it off with the first one, which is uh a watch that I had no intention of owning and then I ended up at a swatch store while we were in Geneva. And that's how I ended up with a scuba fifty. And I'll be honest, I'll be the striped one. It is of course, yeah. Of course it's not a great nano. The striped one doesn't really do much for me, if I'm honest. I can't pull it off. Feels like the strip stripes, the strap is doing more work than the watch. Um but yeah, I do currently have it on a on a gray NATO. We were in Geneva and I I the the the simple fact of it is I kind of bought this as a bit, like I was interested in the watch. Um I wanted to do a story on the watch, maybe some video, that sort of thing. And I bought it kind of thinking like, oh I'll feel a certain way about it and then this will be one of those ones that goes on to my brother or something like that. One of my many brothers. And uh in the end I started wearing it quite a bit and then I just kept wearing it and I kept wearing it and it turns out they they got me. I really like this watch quite a bit. Like this is uh definitely in my list for as if you can pick a color that you like. It had to be the all black one, the ocean of storms for me. But there's you know five or six colors at this point and I thought I was buying into a gimmick or the hype, and sure that's part of what's happening here. But this is a genuinely enjoyable and fun thing to have on your wrist. It has a certain summary appeal. The loom is really good. The bezel is way better than you expect it to be on what's essentially a plastic watch. The movement is a system fifty-one if, you so've been around them, they're very rudimentary, very straightforward, very simple, uh not fancy in any way. But uh it I do kind of feel like I'm getting a portion of the fifty fathoms experience from this watch without spending an equal portion against say a fourteen or fifteen thousand dollar uh fifty fathoms and I've been a fan for a long time the new ones the new forty two millimeters are genuinely really really great in in person but I think these this is a very interesting way to get a little piece of that kind of experience in a watch that I mean you just wear, you're not going to worry about it.
Tony Traina So 400 bucks, I think, retailer or thereabouts. You know, that's like real real watch money. So I'm kind of curious. You you mentioned some of the features, you know, have impressed you, but does it feel like uh does it feel like it's you're getting the val
James Stacey ue that you you paid for it? I think I would say that I think you can get a better made watch for four hundred dollars. Um, but I don't know that you would get the same experience from that watch. You know what I mean? Like an like an alternative is going to be steel, it's going to be um it's going to be something probably uh with a mechanical or quartz movement, a more traditional style of either of those. And I think with with something like this, a good portion of what you're paying for is the the blanc pon of it all. So I think your your alternative at the money would be to make like a man, like a Seiko mod that kind of looked like a fifty fathoms. That's probably how you could get close to some to to a similar experience. But if you're just buying for like I want the absolute best made, serviceable, longstanding watch for for my money. I don't think this is where you would park that money. You're getting a different experience out of these uh these uh swatch collabs
Tony Traina . I assume when you walked into the swatch boutique there were also it was around the time that the new Snoopies had been released, the new Snoopy Moon swatches. Uh any thought to buy one of those or that's not really Stacy style, is it?
James Stacey We we did buy we bought three of those while we were there. Uh Danny got one and then we got one for Joe and for Jonathan, which you would have seen on the fourth episode of the Lucid series from Geneva. Um and so that's really why we ended up going to Swatch in the first place. And then while we were there How could you not? How could you not? Hey Ben. I did my best. Yeah man. You own any uh moon Swatch
Ben Clymer ? I do, I own two. Oh, which ones? I own the like Beijing one. I don't know which one that is. Jupiter. And then the like the Speedmastery one, the the mission to the moon. I own those two. Yeah. Do you wait in line for him? Uh how do I answer that question? Honestly, I would hope. I did not. Somebody somebody somebody sent them to me. Uh no, somebody sent them to me. Oh, I guess we'll leave it at that. Okay. Uh Honiki Radio After Hours. Hey, Ben, your first pick. First pick, unimatic, special off-the-grid watch that you guys are familiar with. Uh so it's a carbon ceramic case, luminous dial, says Hodinki on it. It was a watch that we created unofficially for our 15th year of existence. Uh that was given only to employees towards the end of last year. Love it, was involved with the creation of it. Um I I've said this on this pod elsewhere. I think unimatic in that price range is just do with stuff that is so much like cooler and swaggier and just more fun than anybody else out there. I have five unimatics, I think. Um, and I just love them. I just think it's such cool stuff, such high quality without a focus on like the pretenses of the movements. The cases are always incredible. The the the the just the the vibe and the aesthetic of them all are just so great. I think unimatic is is as cool as it gets in that category. So I've been wearing that a lot. Um, you know, that's a watch, obviously, for for our 10th anniversary, we publicly did the uh the speedmaster, obviously the H10. And so for the 15th, we want to do something that was a little bit more kind of um, you know, kind of just special for the employees. And then of course my own G Shock, I've been wearing that watch nonstop. Um I wear that watch almost every day. Although today I'm wearing boring old Rolex. Um and then the other watch, I mean, look, do you want me to do it?
James Stacey We're just running all the way through. Sure. I yeah, sure. Why not? Why not? I mean, let's not let's not gloss over the unimatic because like a bunch of the audience won't know it that well. Yeah. So it's their mid-sized diver case in carbon composite with a loom dial. Yeah. Otherwise, all black and gray. The thing is so friggin' fun to wear. I didn't think we were allowed to pick it for the pod, otherwise that would have been my first pick as well. Uh, because it's it has Hodinky on the dial, the loom dial on carbon, you know, the I can think of one other brand that does that, Doxa has a similar s sort of layout of a watch, Doxa being in an entirely different price bracket, even for their carbon than Unimatic. The Unimatic stuff, the carbon sits higher up in their price point, but they're still doing it for half what most other brands are charging for a carbon uh case with a uh steel substructure or titanium substructure. I don't remember which or which on this. Yeah. Um but yeah, they make uh it's such a fun watch for sure. And it's the standard like diver style, uh, whereas we did the L E that included the GMT as well, which I wore that quite a bit recently. Just had to send it back. So
Tony Traina good. You know, I visited them in Milan a around a year ago. Just a ton of fun. They've got great design sensibility about them they're obviously sort of you know their stories they're inspired by vintage watches like the fifty fathoms even that we were just talking about James but they do it in a totally fun way without any pretense. And they've managed to be sort of embraced by hardcore enthusiasts like us, as well as just the fashion community, the design community. Some of the limited editions they've done are are super cool. Ours included obviously. And it's what the second time we've collaborated with them now. We did a a limited edition with them a handful of years ago. Uh our a whole cap
Ben Clymer sule collection really that was also really really well. Yeah I I I have those too honestly. And actually I have one of them on on the other side of the office there. They're just great, man. Like the the people are great, the watches are great. They're just fun, the right price point. Again, a lot of a lot of charm and swag without, you know, without it being a super expensive watch. And Ben, you have that yellow LE they did like about a year and a half Yeah. So that so that was really cool. Well that that's another one that's a tough color for a dog. It is. That was a limited edition with our friends over at uh Undefeated. Uh so Eric uh Tang Chang, uh his his his his company. Uh super cool watch, genuinely. I I I wear that's a great summer watch. Yeah, yeah.
Tony Traina Nice. They also the one knock if you can have any on on Unimatic is their their watches are chunky, deliberately so, but that's the thing. But they released a thirty-six millimeter case this year. I I had those in earlier this year, did the little review, and then I think we've even got them on the shop side still. But cool watches. They did a steel case and then I believe a carbon case as well. Just a couple of them now. They did a a collab with Messina, who probably gets as many shout-outs as anyone on this podcast. Uh that was kind of Ron inspired, really cool, but they've only done those handful of releases. But I'm excited to see what they do with the the 36 millimeter case for the small wristdamong Us. Agreed. Ben, you were about to jump into your next watch before we decided to stick on unimatic for a moment. So why don't you just get right into it for us? Yeah, I mean look, if if
Ben Clymer we're gonna do it, I mean, I feel like you guys invited me on this podcast solely to to just do this. You know, you don't really care about where I was in bands or anything. I thought you guys just want to show you want me to show like a really cool watch. So I'm gonna do that to be fair i do care podcast i
Tony Traina yeah to be fair watch podcast that's fair yeah i i personally care about the comings and goings of of Ben and you know what he's doing with Mark Newsom and Japan on any given day, but I sure recognize I might be on the minority. And you're probably the only one. We're getting excited, I'm stalling as you open your watch box and sort of decide what you're going to show the people second here. I only have one watch that I purchased recently or that I received recently. Oh, okay. And it look looks like this. Do you want to tell the people, Ben? Do you want to describe it? This is still mainly an audio audio medium. So I see. I I thought for some reason I thought people wat
Ben Clymer ched us on YouTube. This is a Rechep Rechepi, I'll say it in English, contemporary chronometer two in platinum. So this is a deadbeat seconds watch uh made by Rechep Rechepi. Um 100 of these made in Platinum with a black enamel dial. I waited for this watch for a really, really long time. Um, got it probably three months ago now, and just cannot take it off. It's probably the most exciting watch I've I've ever bought new. It's I I don't even know. It leaves me speechless sometimes, honestly
Tony Traina . Including right now, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Can you just explain the uh explain the appeal of of young Rec Shep a little bit more now that you're an owner and sort of how your appreciation for for him as a watchmaker and everything that he's doing or building has has changed since you've owned this watch for I don't know a couple of months now. Yeah, I
Ben Clymer look, I think there there's no shortage of of praise for for red chip. So I I you know I want to be mindful of not going getting too flowery. But I said it in my uh summary of my trip to Geneva last November when I was there for the week for the GPHG. I visited him. I saw a prototype with this watch. I I would describe him as like a a paradigm changer for for independent watchmaking. When you look at Dufour, of course, when you look at Jorn, I mean these guys are the guys that that that you know Red Chip used to work for Jorne and uh uh I know admires Philippe Dufour. What what Redship is doing is taking in many cases the best of both of those worlds and combining them into one. And he's doing it with integrity. He's doing it at scale. This is not, you know, Philippe made 200 and change simplicities he made nine or so dualities and then he made pocket watches that's it for his entire career in terms of watches that say Philippe Dufour on them Jorne is a brand you know he designs the watches doesn't necessarily make them so much. Um Rechap and Acrivia are are kind of somewhere in between both those worlds where there will be enough of them where there is a real market, where there is a real brand, but the the the craft and the innervation is is wildly new. And the simplicity, of course, there wasn't really anything new. I mean, it was basically a JLC eBausch just incredibly finely finished. Duality was very new, of course. But he only made nine of those. So what everything Red Ship does is a combination of innovation and then traditional craft. You have JP Hagman cases, which as I'm sure many of you know, are is the gentleman that made the cases for Blanc Pom, for Pat Techs, Minute Repeaters, for some uh Pat Tech perpetual calendars, et cetera. Um he's now working for for RedChep completely. Uh he bought his own strap maker. Uh he will soon be making his own cases and dials. Uh I'm sorry his own dials. They were talking about real in-house watchingmak with vintage patek level aesthetics, but with contemporary hot horology finishing to the nth degree. I mean, to a level of finishing that is is just simply absurd. Um, even for the price point, uh, you know, having owned the simplicity, having a I've owned a Google Forzy once, you know, well, which up until this was probably the finest fit finished watch I'd ever owned. And on top of that, the the kind of piece to resistance with with Retchup is that like he's gen auinely nice person and he's doing it all himself and he's not close to slowing down. He's in his mid-30s now, father of of two young children, um, but he's not close to slowing down, which means we have years, you know, decades of of more innovation to come. And we'll see stuff this year from him. Uh which is just inc incredibly exciting
James Stacey . And you you you mentioned your Groove Force the SIG one. Yep. In some ways a simil like a similar watch in the Group of I mean that's so hard to define, but I I have a distinctive memory of shooting the Sig one when it came out. Yep. The one of the last couple years of SIHH's existence. Right. Um and seeing stuff in the photos that I had never seen a watch do before in terms of like they're all these black dots and I couldn't figure out what they were and they were actually the screw head correct reflecting nothing because it was so finely polished. Yeah. Yeah. The I think just a remarkable thing.
Ben Clymer Group Group of 4 is the is it's like I bet if we asked our man Tony Trainer what he thinks Google Forzy, like he probably wouldn't have much to say. Am I am I wrong
Tony Traina ? Uh I'm I'm coming off mute for a reason, Ben. That's about right. Uh I think, you know, yeah, why don't you answer James's question first
Ben Clymer ? Okay. So so Gruble Gruble for Z for the uninitiated, like this what no matter what you might think about the aesthetics, the quality is just it's superlative. I mean, it is just extraordinary and i always respected that but the aesthetics and price of course were really challenging to me so when they did a time only no turbion watch the signature one was really attractive i was able to buy one in platinum one of the 11 they made incredibly cool watch. I ended up selling it because it just didn't the aesthetic just didn't work for me and it was really expensive and just wanted something else. But really changed my perspective on what matters in a watch. And when you compare it, I owned that watch the same time I had a simplicity, and you put them side by side and you put it in front of a real expert. And the finishing on the on the on the group was right up there with with the simplicity, if not above in some ways, but it was a different kind of finishing. Um and so with with Retcha, like I said relative to simone brett it is just overt in your face like raw you know dynamic finishing that is clear and obvious in front of you whereas with grubel with simon brett with dufort to some degree. It takes a little bit more nuance and understanding of watchmaking to get why these things are so funny to finish. But when you turn over the case back on a redship, you just are hit with light. You are hit with a beautiful almost sunshine. Uh, and the the the level of understanding it takes for for this watch to be appreciated is is is much more so than a Rolex or a my Le Mann or a Gold Daytona or whatever. And that in itself makes it really compelling. And again, of all the watches that I've owned, you know, I think back are the ones that I was kind of most excited to get. And this retch up is is right up there. And I I wore it in Venice. I uh there was a black tie event. So I was able to wear this as a black tie watch, which it was kind of intended for, which was really neat. Um but I wear it all the time. I wear it with t-shirt and jeans constantly
Tony Traina . Hey, what do you think of the uh man he had some big auction results in the past week or two. I don't want to sort of make this about price and numbers and all that type of stuff. I think we've talked about the watchmaking a little bit, but only watch two million dollars, and then he sold a uh CC one for another million dollars, three million dollars in a weekend is you know, light work, I suppose, for for Mr. Rick Sheppy nowadays, but but what what do you think of all that, if anyt
Ben Clymer hing? Uh what do I think? I mean okay, who who knows? So it can li I mean the the the thing with Red Chep is the the the fad of his prices being in the seven-figure range is sh right so far is like a short-term thing. It just started happening about a year and a half ago, two years ago. Red Chip will continue to make watches, right? There's about to be a hundred of these out there in the world. And then after that, they'll there will presumably be X number of the amagnetic watches and then whatever comes after that, whatever comes after that. So to to maintain a level of of that high would be really challenging. I don't even think he wants that. So I I wouldn't anticipate that the prices would remain that high. Um, we saw what happened with Dufour. Dufour washes were trading for around a million and now they've kind of come back down to say 500,000 for the 37 millimeters, maybe even a little bit less for the 34s. Still an extraordinary return for anybody that buys them new, an extraordinary amount of money for a watch. But do you I I'm you know I don't think a ton about the the the value of these watches in secondary market because I have no plans to sell this. And the only I guess the only reason I would think about it would be like insurance purposes. Um but it's uh it's a crazy number to pay for a watch but at the same time if you if you've kind of been told you'll never get one at retail then it's the only way to get one. So I I understand it if if you have the if you have the cash for it. Ye
Tony Traina ah. James, before we get to your second watch, I suppose we should do my first watch. I I should have just cut in when you were talking about Swatch because my first one is Swatch 2. It's it's that time of year, I suppose. They really they've released the Swatch Neon collection. There's six or eight watches in the collection, but the one that I ended up buying, this is kind of the perils of the job, I suppose. I I bought this after um after I asked for a few of them for review. I just thought it'd make for a fun summer. Like shoot a few photos in the sunlight of these bright new neon watches. Uh but the one that really stuck with me is called the Neo Wave, I think it's called. Let me double check that. It's called the Neo Wave, but it's basically a play on an original Swatch chronograph from 1990. These are watches I've always liked, these original Swatch chronographs. You can go read about them. Uh by the time this this episode is up, I'll have done my little write-up of these and I I include a only partially relevant divergence on these original swatch chronographs from the 90s. I've owned a few of them over the years. I just think they're fun to buy and track on eBay and these types of things. They're a couple hundred bucks, but they're you know 37 millimeters and they wear really nicely. But it's fun to see swatch making reference to these old chronographs again. These this this new one I bought, this new neon wave is 42 millimeters, so still a little big. The old ones were 37, but they were releasing these like 47, 49 millimeter bioseramic plastic chronographs like a year or two ago. So these are a huge improvement. If you look at their catalog, it's honestly the, best swatch chronograph in the catalog right now, in my opinion. There's another one as well that's a little more pinky than this, but anyway, just a fun summer watch, like a hundred bucks or something. Uh it's my first my first choice for the for the day. Uh that's a lot of fun for a hundred bucks. Yeah, you know, look, I think a lot of these brands are doing nostalgia plays and I think it's it's worthwhile to you know do something that's nostalgic and reminds you of all these things but doesn't cost a ton of money, you know, nostalgia doesn't have to be a super expensive thing preach ben i can tell that i have bored you to death with why is my chat with my chatter of of swatch cro So we're gonna go to James's second pick. James, what do you got
James Stacey ? Well look, let's let's let's make it clear Hodinky represents the whole width of the watch fascination because we we had had Ben Ben's incredible, you know, largely handmade watch with some incredible finishing and and and the rest of it, or incredibly handmade watch. And uh I have gone back to my basics. This is a bit of like a retcon origin story watch for me. Uh, and that's uh I just recently took delivery of a watch I certainly didn't need, but that would be uh Orange Monster from Museiko. So I owned a black one, it was my first Americ uh my first um um mechanical Seiko ever was uh Black Monster. And I had that for some time and probably sold it to buy a SKX double seven or like an SNA four eleven or something like that that I was into at the time. And then a couple years ago, snapped up another black one, a gen one, through some people, found a guy who had a bunch of uh new old stock ones and picked one up. And that's when they were starting to get like more expensive than they should be. I think I probably paid 160, 180 bucks for the first one, probably paid a multiple of that for the second one. And now you check around and they're like, you know, they're pushing a grand in some scenarios. And I don't think it's a thousand dollar experience. But if say a decade or more ago you had one and you'd always wanted the orange, I highly recommend it because I'm having an absolute blast wearing this on a sunny day. Just a really fun watch. Is that what you wear after the camp, James? That's what I wore all weekend, yeah. Up to the cottage. Nice. It's just super fun. Great to jump off the dock with one of these on. It is a a uh a watch that I would call like ugly, beautiful the monster. Yeah. Uh because especially on paper, you know, an image, that sort of thing, you kinda look at it and you go like what what is that? There's a lot of competing elements to this watch. And then you get it in person on this kind of heavy solid steel bracelet and it feels like a watch that didn't come from any era of time or design. There's not other watches that look like this. There I mean look, and I'm also like essentially waxing poetry but a watch that was an a lot of people's like intro to Seiko and dive watches and mechanical watches. And if if for whatever reason the 007 was too conventional for you, maybe you found home with a 779 or 781. Uh they've done several other generations. Actually, if you go back and watch the first episode of Watches in the Wild with our our good pal Cole Pennington. Uh he meets like a monster collector, so you can actually see the breadth of what is out there if you want to go, you know, quote unquote hard in the paint. If you'd rather keep it something like a few hundred dollars and uh and you think this would be fun, seriously a fun watch. I I uh I enjoy having it. It's a cool thing
Tony Traina . James, I'm trying to remember, I'm trying to pull it up on the spot, but I think an a magazine article we did like our top ten Seiko's of all Do you remember the article I'm talking about? And do you remember if this watch made the
James Stacey list? Uh I think I got voted out pretty quickly on this watch. I think it was more of like a a James's top ten pick, and I got one or two um otherwise from from that listing. I mean no to be fair Seiko's I did find it Seiko's a watch with a lot of skews. It's it it was number six on the list. The orange I just found it. Yeah. But yeah, no, I I think I think they're certain fun and definitely definitely you know deserve a spot in the in the top ten uh for uh for a brand like that. Uh I'm I'm surprised that it it that made it uh through the voting process as I know this is a uh you know it's sort of a divisive watch, whereas a lot of the brands more conventional stuff uh you know, had like I said, it's been a lot of people's gateway into watches and watch fascination
Tony Traina . Is there anything in particular about your life or Seiko in general that made you sort of revisit the orange monster at this particular point
James Stacey ? Uh looking for external sources of happiness. Can I fill this like void in the in the middle here, you know? And a nice bright orange dial on a sunny day is is a pretty good time. Uh largely I just you know I've I I love things that glow in the dark and the monster lives up to its name with uh just a ton of loom. And I'll always it you know, regardless of of what the brand does moving forward, uh my guess is they'll continue doing great great work, but I'll always have a soft spot for Seiko's in general. Yeah, totally. Uh you know, sometimes it doesn't need to be any deeper than that, I suppose. And like I said, like a seven year old with a bit of cash. I'm not making uh like I'm not making wise decisions necessarily, but I'm having a good time
Tony Traina . Yeah, totally, totally. I maybe we'll save this for a future episode. I don't know if we have time for it now, but you wrote up the new Seiko. Are we calling it the 24 Moss?
James Stacey U That's what I've been calling it just because there's too many uh uh too many SPB monikers. It's hard to keep track of the the the you know there's just a lot. So it's like the SPB45 series or something. Yeah, the four five X, but my guess is there's other models that were four five something in the past. But yeah, just recently Seiko updated the uh one of my favorite watches of say that more like the 2020 eras, which would have been this um the SPB-143 and its several siblings again. The the reference number thing can be a little bit annoying when it comes to these watches. So they're based on the 62 mass. So we people started calling this the 20 mass because it came out in 2020. And now we have kind of the first notable update to that line in the twenty four mass. Uh I I would say like ninety percent the same watch, slightly refined. That that seems to be twenty twenty four. Like if at the end of the year I think there'll be a lot of think pieces about how this is a year where we just saw a lot of watches, popular watches be subtly refined, Tutor, Black Bay, Monochrome, you know, these new SPBs. The the list kind of just goes on and on where this is largely very similar to the previous one, slightly different movement with two hours more power reserve, slightly different case dimensions, uh, no more gray black with the steel bezel. That option's gone. You get like a conventional black one, conventional blue one, and then an L E and then I guess we'll see where they take it from there. A few nice updates to the bracelet, shorter links, a shorter um clasp, both of which make it like drape and just wear a lot more uh effectively on wrist.s But otherwise you you're just talking about a a pretty straightforward conventional sort of Seiko. I think in many ways this almost edges Seiko or the format for this mass series, these sixty eight divers reinterpretations. I think it pushes it a little bit closer to like the playbook from the uh the black bay. Uh whereas the the one four three especially with the brush gray dial and the gr the brush bezel kind of had a different look that wasn't straight on aligned with you know the diver from the 60s and and I think they've gone a little bit more down the middle with this one. I think it'll be very popular. I know if you unless you hate 430 dat
Tony Traina es You know it looks like you're the one that had it hands-on, but it looks relatively discreet for for what it's worth. Yeah, no, it's a nicely done four thirty date, to be fair. Uh you were quite sort of vocal in your support of the one four three uh a few years ago. You still enjoying that watch
James Stacey ? Uh I sold mine. I had my time with it and uh and had a really good time and I I actually just got to the point where it looked too similar to other watches I had. And I'm very much looking forward to the new four hundred series, like this the twenty four mass, to do some of the other versions. Uh they did like a a black series diver in the original spec that had like a black case and all blacked out with like an orange minute hand. And if they do that on on this line I could definitely see adding another one in. Right now I'm I'm just doing the the orange monster. c Coversovers the Seiko bases. But uh I doubt it'll be the last one of these that that I have. I I I'm quite a fan. Yeah. T
Tony Traina otally. We'll leave the Seiko discussion there. I think we only have my last watch and then we're gonna call it a day on today's interesting round, Robin. I would say I'm not sure if this segment has gone well. I'm not sure if it'll make a return, but I'm glad we're trying it out, guys. I'm really glad about that. Um I think you can rate a podcast before we publish it. Oh man. Listen, last week's episode, my phone has just been ringing off the hook. Shout out to Eric Ku and Justin Gruenberg. I've gotten multiple nice text messages already. That that podcast has only been up for like an hour or two as we speak. So who texted you? Give me names. Darryl, Lisa. Julia. Lisa, my mom, my mom, mom. You know, things of that nature, things of that nature. Other coworkers as well, I suppose. Uh, but my second watch, guys, my second watch is the the Cartier Tortu, not the new one, not the new one. I'm not that fancy. Come on now, Ben. You'll get there. You'll get there. Just patting me on the head. You'll get there. Seriously. This is a seventies Tortu. I got it like nine months ago now. So I'm not jumping on the Tortu hype or anything like that. I'm not trying to proclaim it the year of the Tortu. I got this well before, well before we knew what was coming out, guys. A full nine months. Did you know what was coming out from Cartier nine months ago? I didn't know, but I mean nine months. I thought you were gonna say like nine years. Ben nine years ago. I was in like high school or something. Come on now. How old are you? Oh I was in college nine years ago. More
Ben Clymer okay, this is not a conversation for for podcasts seriously. Because we have this other colleague named Rich who always like he's really young. He's like he's like 15 years younger than me, which is not a big deal, but like he just is, and I feel like he thinks I'm making fun of him because he's so young. When in fact I wish I were
Tony Traina oh yeah, Rich is Rich is younger than me. Uh but never ask a woman her age, Ben. Come on now. Indeed, indeed. True, true, true. Yeah. You know, I I've owned a few Cartiers over the years before my time at Hodinky. I'd never own sort of a nineteen seventies one. I wrote a collector's guide, collector's introduction to nineteen seventies Cartier just a few months ago. And it's an area where they really scaled up production. They they you know partnered with Ebble to create this this production facility in in Switzerland. Really scaled up production when they consolidated all of the New York, London, Paris branches. And so I wanted to own a watch from that era. I'd own someed 90s CPC examples, some earlier watches. Uh the 70s watches I I'd never owned though, and I I wanted the experience because like I said, they they ramped up production. So it's not like these watches are incredibly rare, but that said, it it takes a minute to find them in nice condition sometimes. So uh, you know, these enamel dials crack, the cases just polish because people want their gold Cartier watches to to shine a little bit, I suppose. They don't want all of their scuffs marks on them, or at least that's how they used to think about it. I'm not sure if that's how people think about it nowadays. So so it takes a minute to find one in condition that that you sort of want to wear. And for me, it was sort of an interesting it it varied from the uh cartier buy-in experiences I'd had I bought a few sort of CPC Cartiers before my time at Hodinky and those are different because they're legitimately rare they're they're produced in runs of 50, 100, 200, whatever it is. So sometimes you kind of just have to wait around, but they're relatively modern watches. So they tend to be in decent condition. Versus these 70s watches, you kind of have to they'll pop up uh somewhat frequently, but you kind of have to be more discerning about condition and all those types of things. So is just a note about uh sort of collecting I won't say collecting Cartier. I would never be so pretentious as to call myself a collector like James, but uh uh you know just a note on sort of the different ways in which uh you know you can sort of buy different eras of of Cartier or of of watches in gener
James Stacey al. I I'm curious from from the from uh I know both of you guys are huge Cartier fans, have a lot of experience with various models from the brand. I think for people in the audience who maybe don't know the catalog, but they know the tank, what what is a what does a Tortue do that a tank doesn't like what what what's the difference in like kind of the r the role that it f uh kind of positions itself into
Tony Traina ? Yeah, so for me, good question, James. I bought into the whole lore of the Tortu is a little bit older as far as you know just the catalog. I think the shape dates back a few years old than a few years prior to the tank. Uh yeah, it's quite a distinctive shape. Yeah, and it's you know they're all 110 years old or whatever it is. But for me, first of all, Melica called the tank pedestrian and then Ben called the crash pedestrian. So those were those were out of the question from the jump. Uh, but I had had a tank, I've had these sort of the classic tank size is 23 by 30, I want to say. I love small watches. I have a small wrist, but it honestly is a little bit small. And to me, the Tor 2 is just a touch bigger. It's a few millimeters bigger on all dimensions. And the case shape is just, it's got the curved sort of case shape. Uh to to step back for just a second, tortou means turtle in French. So it's modeled after a a turtle's shell, I suppose. But to me it's got these uh sort of the case itself is kind of curved and bulbous and then but the the lugs are actually like quite angular like a tank so to me I like the the the juxtaposition I suppose of of those two lines but to like just from a wearability perspective, it's a touch bigger than the tank, which which I like. I like a little bit more presence on the wrist
James Stacey . And like not to be too reductive, but like is the idea you're simply getting some you're spending more money but you're getting something simply more special. W,ell that was the other thing.
Tony Traina I mean, look, let's just put it all on the cart. Like this uh the Tortu from the 70s object is objectively rarer than the tank. I've I mentioned this in my article a little bit. Probably 15,000 tanks were made in this 70s run, this reference. It's probably the most popular of those 70s models that they really that they made. And by my count, there are probably less than a thousand Tortuos were ever made. So it is objectively rare for whatever it's worth, but uh, you know, people don't know the Tor 2 like they know the tank, nor should they, not claiming that they should, but it's objectively rare and I spent less money on it by by a decent margin. So so that helped as well in in sort of stoking my interest for the
James Stacey Nice. And y what other cards would you own alongside something like this? Like what others do you have? None. What others do you have? Yeah. None, first of all
Tony Traina . I thought for some reason you had uh Santos, but maybe I'm making No, I had sort of gotten rid of all of them and then I looked around and I said, wait a second, I don't have any Cartier's. What is wrong with me? This is insane. Uh so I looked around and I said, Why not try the Tortu out? So so here we are. But I'm not sure if I would try any others at this point. I mean to uh to my point earlier, uh everyone feels as though all these other these other shapes from them are are quite pedestrian. So I don't even know if I can tread into these waters nowadays. I would happily wear a tank. I think they're red. I mean they are red
Ben Clymer . They are red. Yeah. No matter what Melica says, she doesn't Just kidding Malica, you know everything. Come on the show, shout at us back. Ye
Tony Traina ah. Yeah, we'll have her on to respond to all of this. Uh Ben, anything you want to add about the world of of Cartier before we before we close this thing out? No. I don't think so. You did a great job, Tony
Ben Clymer . Thanks, man. Yeah, it really turned the episode around. Yeah, it was it was lagging there for a minute. When I was talking about all the stuff, it kinda sucked. Yeah. Because when we talk about the
Tony Traina orange monster? Uh that today minutes ago. That's like a lifetime ago. Well, look, I brought you two on the pod to run the three man weave, as I said, because I thought there would be some decent variety between the three of us. I think we delivered on that. We had a couple of swatches. I did not think swatch would be the brand that got mentioned twice, I must say. So good on them for that. I have one right here another. I we I wear it all the time. I wear the swatch. The green limited edition. Yeah. Yeah. Wear it all the time. Yep. I've got the uh like the stoplight one that we did a few years ago is before my time here, but I think that's what it's called. The blue one. I've got one of the blue ones. That's a good one. Another great one.. Yeah Uh, but anyway, wow, a lot of love for Swatch today. Honestly, good for them because they deserve it. I agree. But beyond that, we had Seiko, we had old Seiko's, we had Rec Shep, Rec Sheppy. I mean we just really we we spanned the gamut, which I'm really I'm really excited about. I'm glad we delivered on that. But guys, yeah, thank you for for doing the homework diligently. Thanks for bringing a couple of your recent acquisitions to the podcast to talk about. Uh and hopefully well, I don't know if I'll say hopefully. We'll see how this is received, but perhaps we'll do it again sometime soon, if the people like hearing from us about about our our acquisitions. Like I said, this is not meant to be a self-indulgent exercise, but more so just talking about what we're interested in and and giving sort of honest reviews and feedback about the watches. But guys, we're gonna leave it there for now. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of Hodin Geek Radio. Thanks as always to our editor Vic Audaminelli, and I'll see you all again next week for another episode.