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Watches & Wonders 2024 Preview With Ben, James, And Danny

Published on Wed, 3 Apr 2024 16:55:00 +0000

It's Wednesday, which means it's another episode of Hodinkee Radio, and this week, it's a big one: We're kicking off our Watches & Wonders coverage! On April 9, Watches & Wonders begins in Switzerland. I'll be heading to Geneva with a bunch of my colleagues to attend the annual trade show, now the biggest for the Swiss watch industry. Alongside the big show are a number of other shows scattered throughout Geneva – in all, more than 150 brands will be exhibiting in the city. It's one of the few weeks each year where much of the industry descends onto one town. Last year was my first show, and I can't wait to get back for another one. I'm not the only one who's excited, so I've got Ben, Danny, and James on mic to talk about Watches & Wonders - what to expect from the show, from specific brands (Rolex, Tudor, and Patek), and more before we all hop on flights to Geneva. Also, this is your heads up to make sure you're subscribed to Hodinkee Radio, as we'll have daily episodes from Geneva April 9–12. Each day, we'll recap the biggest releases from Rolex, Tudor, Patek, and all 54 brands presenting at Watches & Wonders, as well as the dozens of other brands we'll be visiting in Geneva.

Synopsis

This episode of Hodinkee Radio serves as a comprehensive preview for Watches and Wonders 2024, the watch industry's premier trade show in Geneva. Host Tony Traina is joined by Hodinkee founder Ben Clymer, James Stacy, and managing editor Danny Milton to discuss predictions and expectations for the upcoming event. The team covers the evolution of watch trade shows from the pre-COVID era, when SIHH and Baselworld were separate events, to the current consolidated Watches and Wonders format that includes major brands like Rolex and Patek Philippe but notably excludes Swatch Group brands and Audemars Piguet.

The conversation focuses heavily on predictions for Rolex, with extensive discussion about potential developments in the 1908 dress watch collection, the possibility of titanium expanding beyond the Yacht-Master, speculation about Sea-Dweller updates, and potential chronograph releases. The hosts reflect on last year's surprising releases including the "jigsaw" Day-Date and sapphire caseback Daytona. For Tudor, they discuss the recently announced pink dial Black Bay Chrono with Inter Miami, potential chronograph line expansions, and the need to standardize features like T-fit clasps and METAS certification across the Black Bay collection.

The discussion takes a particularly interesting turn when addressing Patek Philippe, with Ben Clymer expressing a desire for the brand to create more accessible, soulful watches under $50,000 that capture the emotional craftsmanship of vintage Pateks. The team compares this gap to what brands like A. Lange & Söhne and Chopard are achieving at similar price points. They also touch on Tag Heuer's recent success with the Glassbox Carrera and briefly discuss expectations for other brands. Throughout, there's acknowledgment that this may be a quieter year for releases compared to 2023's bombshell announcements, but anticipation remains high for what the major brands will unveil.

Transcript

Speaker
Tony Traina This episode of Hodinki Radio is brought to you by Accutron and the new DNA Casino collection. With 100 pieces made in four vibrant colors, the Accutron DNA Casino perfectly fuses futuristic watchmaking and bold design. Stay tuned later in the show for more on the brand's new collection, or visit AccutronWatch.com for all the details. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Hodinky Radio. I'm Tony Traina. This is the big one, guys. This is the preview episode for Watches and Wonders. We are all about to hop on planes to go to Geneva for the biggest trade show of the year as far as the Swiss watch industry is concerned. Watches and wonders. Outside of Geneva, there are also a few other satellite shows around the city throughout the week, so it's really an entire Geneva watch week, if you will. Um and for that, to preview all of the watch brands that are gonna be there, I've got quite a cast of characters uh joining me today on today's show. Let's start it off from the founder of Hodinky, Ben, Benjamin Klymer. How are you doing today? I'm doing great, Tony. How are you doing? I'm good. Thank you so much for joining us. Uh next up we've got James, James Stacy calling in from Toronto, Mr. Stacy, how are we doing? I couldn't be better. Happy to be here. Finally, of course, we've got our own managing editor. Uh our ground crew, our advanced crew already on the ground in Europe, figuring out where things are, uh scouting out some good dinners, some good bars for us. Mr. Melton, Danny Milton, how are you doing today?
Danny Milton Good. I'm practicing cartography, mapping out the area. It's gonna be good. Everyone's everyone should be really excited about the work I'm putting in ahead of the show
Tony Traina . A lot of a lot of documents are going in the briefcase that we discussed last week. Uh and I'm forward to it. Okay, guys, I got all of you on because this is the big show, like I said. Watches and wonders is is coming up. the By time that this publishes, it'll be just a week away. Hodiki Radio is going to be doing daily episodes at the end of every day. So kind of just talking about all of the things that all of us saw throughout the day at the show. Uh either at the the Watches and Wonders or at one of the other shows that that hopefully we'll be able to get to throughout the week. So look forward to that in addition to all of the rest of the coverage, of course that we'll be doing on the site, intros, hands-ons, all of that type of stuff from Geneva. So this year, Watches and Wonders is going to be even bigger, honestly. So there's going to be 54 brands. There are going to be uh a few additional brands. I think Braymont is one of the bigger ones that's going to be added in addition to a few other brands like Gnomos, Raymond Weill, uh kind of adding an additional section to to the hall at Watches and Wonders. So the show is back. It's bigger than ever. It's the third show since the third Watches and Wonders since the post-COVID sort of uh reshuffling of the trade show atmosphere occurred, uh, I wanted to get James and Ben just to talk a little bit about the way trade shows have developed because I think between the two of them, they've probably gone to closing in on a hundred trade shows, I would imagine, in the watch industry. So Ben, maybe we could start with you and you could just talk about 120, 130. Yeah, yeah. So just talk about talk a little bit about the way in which trade shows have developed over the past few years and where we're at now with Watches and Wonders. Before we get into specific predictions, which is really going to be the meat of this show, I should say, with with Rolex. Yeah, I'll
Ben Clymer Sure, I'll give you the quick rundown. So historically pre pre-pre-COVID, really, and it just kind of happened to align with with the reshuffling of Basel World or the descent of Basel World, I suppose. There was the SIHH, Solon International Hot Urology, I'll say without even trying to feign try to feign an accent. Was Richemont. It was AP, it was Richard Meal. Uh effectively. Sometimes the Sewin group, which was Girard Perigot and Jean uh Jean Richard uh as well. They that was at the Pell Expo, while where Watchers and Wonders currently is, incredibly high-end, invite only. Everyone's suited up, champagne, caviar, literally, uh, kind of all day, every day. Really uh very fancy. I mean, like what you kind of imagine the Swiss to be like, that was what that was. It was also really neat because it was um a focus on hot neurology on really high-end watch making. So you had Langa, you had Vatron, you had AP, you had Cartier. I mean, like really back leaf, Raj de Bui, like guys that make like r uh JLC of course like really really, high-end watches, which was really neat for a kind of a Dork like me. Um so a really exciting week of the year. And then on the flip side you had the Basel Fair in Basel, Switzerland, of course and there you had kind of like, I don't want to say the mass market brands, but the brands that A can kind of pull enough weight where like they don't need to be part of of that group. So you have Rolex, of course you have Tudor, Pat Tech, but not only do you have those guys, you're a Chopard, and then you would walk into the hall and the first thing you would see would be a giant omega sign. And so it's important to note that that the swatch group is not at Watches and Wonders, right? So now you have Rolex, Paddock, all those guys combined with the SIHH brands in Watches and Wonders, but you don't have the Swatch group. So you don't have Omega, you don't or any Swatch brands for that matter. You also don't have AP. We just saw that they released all their watches a few weeks ago in in Milan. We had Mark Koslerwich there. So you what you do have are the kind of the most important brands in the world. You have Rolex, you have Patek Philippe, you have uh Tudor, uh, and then you have basically all the Reachmont brands, which includes, as I said, Longa, Vashron, etc., Cartier. So to me, you know, I I think sometimes when I say this, people think I'm kidding, but I'm I'm not. Like it's my favorite week of the year. Like I'm a lover of watches. The industry is a different story. That's you know, come see comme ça. But the the the product itself is is indisputably fun. And so what we're gonna see is you know all the new releases from from Rolex from Patek from Tudor from Bashron from Leaf from Cartier. I mean like all the brands that that we care about with the exception of course of of APRM and and swatch brands. I think it's going to be an interesting year because we're starting to see brands uh pull away from trade shows a little bit as the demand increases, frankly. I mean, we saw the Le Monde Tona, which was for sure the biggest release of last year's show, not at Watch the Wonders. We had Longa, which is one of my favorite brands last year, show one watch, and that was the Odysseus chronograph, which is like a hundred and fifty thousand dollar limited edition chronograph that I've never even seen in the wild. So you go all the way to Geneva to see your favorite brand, you see one product, one new product, and then that watch, like basically doesn't exist. Um, you know, so we're we're gonna see we're gonna see how brands uh respond to this here because you know, speaking with friends of mine that are at you know, large groups or large retailers or you know, people that see a lot more data than I do about the the industry. You know, it's it's kind of a a return to the pre-COVID normalcy of what watches were, which was people like us going crazy all the time because this is who we are, but the, you know, the layman not caring quite as as much as they did, I would say during those those crazy COVID years of when every you know, every kind of alternative investment, watches, wine, trading cards, cars, we're going crazy. Um so I think it's gonna be a relatively quiet year from a product perspective. But I still think like there's so much love because you have Rolex and and Patek Philippe. And a lot of the the thoughts that I have around next week or the week after rather are are around Patek more than anybody else, but we'll we'll get there
Tony Traina . James, I'm curious what you're looking forward to at uh Watches and Wonders this year, a guy who's done as many trade shows as anyone as well
James Stacy . Yeah, it's been it's been quite a few years to go into these and I do always look forward to the camaraderie like, getting a chance to hang out and be really tight with the team. And I like the creativity of of every every one of these meetings is like from a content standpoint a problem, like a puzzle to solve, how to get the best photo, how to get the comment that you want from the leader that's in the room, how to get the context that maybe somebody else didn't ask about. And we have a really diverse team of people that we're bringing this year that have a lot of um kind of not disparate focuses, but like a wide breadth of interest. So I think that we have the the everything we need to kind of put together some pretty exciting uh content. But what what it really comes down to is just putting all the cards on the table. Like everybody on the phone call here, most of the Hodinki editorial stuff, we know almost everything that's coming out uh next week. All of this is done in pre-writing and that sort of stuff, but there remains a few great surprises, and that's kind of one of the great moments of these things is Rolex, Tutor, and Patek all launch uh in this case Tuesday morning, and we all get to sit together and geek out for two, three minutes on what they launch and then grind out as many of these stories as we can. And it's a really fun moment and something I I do always look forward to. Uh like Ben said it, it's kind of a a peak event for us, whether it's a Super Bowl or our Olympics or something like that. And I think it'll be an exciting year. Uh I I do agree with Ben that the tone seems to be that this might be a quieter year than last year. But that doesn't mean that um we won't get some credible like ready to buy commercial product that people can be excited about. It just might mean that there's not these maybe some some of the more insane stuff that were unexpected stuff that we saw last year. But nobody could have predicted jigsaw and balloons on on Rolex and we'll have a good time trying to see what they'll come up with this year in the next few minutes. I totally forgot that that was just last
Tony Traina year. Yeah. That was a crazy one. Do you guys have one indelible memory from from sort of last year that looking back on from from a year on still kind of sticks out to you? Danny, anything for you
Danny Milton ? I think it's almost more in retrospect you realize what you thought was going to be one of the watches of the show just doesn't get talked about anymore. And we all talked a lot about the solid goal GMT on Jubilee. And it's almost a watch that I don't know. I mean, Ben, you tell me if you've seen that watched around, but it seems to be like jigsaw day days been like there's been some publicity around some high level people getting those. The celebration dial OP for sure people have all over the place. But I don't know. Like that was an exciting watch. We all sort of like kind of fawned over it a bit. That's to me, it's like in retrospect realizing w w what quiets down like decidedly after a while. So that's that's kind of uh one that sticks with me
James Stacy . I think it's also interesting to consider like w everything that Danny just listed was last year and didn't include the nineteen oh eight. Oh sure. Like Rolex brought out essentially a catalog of watches last year. Yeah. And sometimes they do that. Sometimes they just hit an anniversary really hard, such as the Le Mans. And other times uh it's good like I think that we might see more evolutions and that sort of thing. But I wouldn't you I don't think at this point anything should surprise us, especially when it comes to Rolex. They're they're really operating on their own playbook
Ben Clymer . It's a it's a totally different, and I talk about this in in the Le Monster story that at this point we just published. Like it they're they're as you as you just said James, like they're really they're running from a totally different playbook than they were even a few years ago. And a lot of credit to to Jean-Fredderic Dufour there. It just it feels like a totally different brand in a good way. But I think the standout for me last year, you know, not you know surprisingly, I suppose, is Jigsaw for sure. I mean that, that's still like's a day date that tells you neither the day nor the date, which is like, like, how is that a thing? Uh and then of course the open case pack Daytona. Like what are we even talking about here? Like an oyster case with a sapphire case pack? U,h you know, it just like that was, and that was on the platinum one back then now on the on the Le Mon. That was a pretty weird and wacky moment for me as a Rolex fanboy
Tony Traina . We're already kind of moving into the predictionslash relics portion of this show. I guess that's what happens when you tee up Danny with any questions. So so I thank him for the natural transition. You know, uh you know. And you guys have already hit on a couple of the kind of just bullet point predictions I I had noted. Uh Sapphire case backs and the nineteen oh eight collection. Maybe uh I I am gonna take it back to the nineteen oh eight collection first and uh curious if you guys think we'll see any extension or if we even want to see any extension from from that line. I think for me it's it's exciting to see Rolex thinking about dress watches. Uh I'd be excited to see them do something additional with it. It seems like they've laid the foundation with yellow gold, white gold, um, black dial, white dial, but it seems like there's a lot more they can do there. The dial is this expansive space, and it'd be nice to see them maybe fill it in with a complication. Uh calendar complications, I think, would would fit quite nicely and can harken back to to some of the 8170 ones or the 6062s that I know guys like Ben would nerd out over. But James, since you're the one that brought that up, uh anything you'd like to see from that collection in particular
James Stacy ? From 1908, I look, I think that they can they could literally take any of their usual moves. We keep talking about playbooks, but I think they could take any of the usual moves. I think we could we could conceivably see a thirty-six mil version. You know, they started with kind of right right in the dead center of of their line at forty. I definitely think that it's a moon phase. You know, we saw that on the Cellini in the past. Like in the last 10 years, they had developed a Cellini with a moon phase. I think a triple cal or an annual cow moon phase would make a lot of sense. I also like weirdly think that there's there's a a world in which they could adapt elements of this uh elements of the nineteen oh eight and elements of the um Sky Dweller into one watch. Um I I think it wouldn't look like a Sky Dweller necessarily, but if you think about the the presence of the bezel and that sort of thing, I think there's an option there. And I really I genuinely hope that they uh do explore a fairly complicated route for that watch. I think that would be exciting. I think it would give people um a home in Rolex for um more overt obvious sort of uh watch making like obviously the Rolex makes incredible watches regardless of what the the function set is but I, think there is an interest. I have to imagine there's an interest in in seeing something significantly more complicated that would make the 1908 more of a hallmark presence against some of the brands uh that we you know know and love for their complicated sort of dresersi watches
Tony Traina . Climber, as a collector of of vintage and modern Rolex, what could they do with this nineteen oh eight collection to to get you excited about it? Rolex can do whatever they want.
Ben Clymer You know, they they they that that's the thing. And I think like that's what we're starting to see is like they're they're now starting to like really explore that, right? I mean I think Rolex has been king for a long time, but now all of a sudden they're they're doing this stuff that's like, oh wow. Like that's that is a really powerful blow. The the Le Mann, which is giving us a all numa dayton, which is like that is what I've dreamt about for 10 years as a modern roller ice lover. And they gave it to us. The fact that they acquired one of the largest, if not the largest, retailer in the world in in Booker. So now they I I don't think they will anytime soon, but they could in fact own a much bigger chunk of of their margin. And they could, you know, they have the ability to control a lot of the the the sales cycle of of their their competitors being anybody that sells the Tabuker. So I would have said there's no effing way that they're going to really expand 1908 into perpetual calendars or annuals or moon phases or whatever, but I think I just don't know anymore. And I think there there's a real chance that they may say you know what like we're so strong right now why don't we go all the way and you know take a little bit of that you know like everyone's talking about dress watches and kind of gentlemanly watches etc. Um, that I think uh there's a chance that they do do that. And look, there they already have an annual calendar in Skydweller, of course. Like they can modify that and put it into 1908 pretty seriously or pretty easily. So that there's a chance they do that, historically speaking, and that's the only thing I'll say. The c the major caveat is they're acting very differently now than they were even a few years ago. Historically, if they do an intro one year, the following year, they don't touch it. Um so I would assume that they will not touch 1908 this year, but who the hell knows these days? Rolex is acting acting crazy in a good way, to be c
Tony Traina lear. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up sort of the collector emphasis on these dresser watches, jewelry-focused watches, more design-driven, design forward things. One of the notes I had, just broadly speaking, not with Rolex, is like if any brand is positioned to sort of take advantage of the so-called shift and focus towards those types of watches, uh, it doesn't really fit into any natural catalog point of of Rolex now. Um except to say that Rolex is Rolex and it never fits into anything and people people like it no matter what. But I'm curious if any brand will really take the opportunity in in the increased interest in those types of watches and gold and dress and all that type of stuff to to release something something different. Um I'm not sure but but it'd be exciting if it came from Rolex of course. No
Danny Milton , I agree I agree with Ben. That was the point I was going to make was that we could none of us are wrong to think what could happen to 1908, but I genuinely don't think we'll see anything happen with 1908 this year. Um, because it's another watch you just don't see anywhere. And I feel like in the last um let's say like two years with Rolex, they've they've aside from like crazy splashy stuff at the top, like celebration and and jigsaw, a lot of it has been like a finessing of collections and it's it's either like creating stuff in precious metal or creating one other size element to a watch that exists. And so considering that 1908 is so fresh and anecdotally, like having spoken to re retailers and and friends and collectors, like no one can really see one at this point. Like they're very hard to find already. Imagine just adding to that. I don't think Rolex is in is interested in creating more difficulty out there, even though like they honestly do sell whatever they make, but I belie I feel like they're conscious of the fact that you know that exists and you're sort of seeing it in the way that they're just massaging collections over time. So I happen to love nineteen oh eight and it would be very cool to see improvements made. I just don't, again, also I agree with Ben not going to happen this year in my opinion
Tony Traina . Yeah, this feels like a natural time to talk more about the sports watch stuff. But by the time that we publish this, we'll have done a Rolex predictions article probably on the side or it'll be coming soon. There'll be some fun photoshops from from all of us, uh, imagining predicting, or perhaps hoping against hope of watch it that we'd like to see Rolex release. I think we all probably have focused more on the sports watch types of things, but Danny on that side of the Rolex catalog uh any any general or specific predictions of of what you think we'll see from Rolex besides the usual Rolex things that you kind of mentioned finessing case sizes and so on
Danny Milton ? I've spent like probably an unreasonable amount of time trying to like look at the catalog and figure out what they could possibly do that would either excite or is even necessary. Um and it's difficult at this point, just considering what the brand has done over the last half decade to a decade. But my I'm focused on Sea Dweller for some reason. And I'm feeling like those are some huge watches over there. And I don't know how much sense that makes. And it feels like a lot of the collection is sort of coming to meet in the middle. Everything is either 41 or 40 millimeters at this point. Um, you know, give or take. And I could see a universe where they really simplify the sea dweller range and either bring it back down to the 41 millimeter sizing of the submariner and just do some minor updates there. I think probably kill the red sea dweller situation. I don't know. I'm I'm just thinking that a 43 to on the big end what 44 and a half or forty-five millimeter diver for the deep sea stuff and the titanium one is even bigger than that. Like that just seems seems like a lot of size. Um that's not really in line with uh the habits of the Rolex wearing folks. So that's where I
Tony Traina 'm that's where I'm I'm focused. I can totally see that. And you know, when James and I saw the the big deep sea challenge thing that's fifty millimeters or whatever it is, and that was their first introduction of titanium on a wide scale. I would have been convinced that that was gonna be the first home for titanium in a, you know, a general catalog Rolex. Obviously they didn't go that way, but uh it seems like it could have been a natural home for titanium, you know
Danny Milton ? Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's just uh and I've talked about this with James, that's sort of bland predictions, but it's like titanium is probably gonna continue, and James probably has more thoughts on that than I do. I probably would think that if it already exists in the sweet cellar range, then why not? I think in the past the reason they changed the sizing was there was just a lot of confusion over the difference between a sea dweller and a submariner at a certain point when they're both at forty millimeters. But if you differentiate them by way of case material, you can make a real argument as to why you could have two watches at varying sizes. So who knows
Tony Traina ? You hinted at it already, but uh titanium and one of the things that Rolex also did last year was discontinue the milgause. Uh it had gotten a little long in the tooth, had been in the catalog for like 15 years. One of the often points of of prediction is that it will make a return at some point. It's only been a year. I wouldn't surprise if they they take their time with it. Um they famously sort of bought one at auction for about two million dollars last year as well in Geneva. Um, not that that's related to to anything, it's just kind of an interesting footnote. But James, titanium, Milgaus, anything there?
James Stacy Yeah, I mean that that's the prediction that I came up with. Admittedly, it it's I I would use a lowercase P for the prediction. I don't think this this is something that will happen but I do think it kind of makes sense if you were going to go to the extent of creating their own version of titanium in RLX and then you wanted to say put that into a watch. Uh in my mind there's three professional models that it would work for. I think that could be a new sea dweller again, which would give it some space away from the submariner, which has become such a technically capable watch over the the last f forever. Um that like, you know, there's an there's an extent to which like the uh the need for a sea dweller has diminished uh obviously as as we've entered a a time of this sort of stuff. And then I think beyond that, it would be fascinating to see something like a titanium milguss because you have a material that is in itself uh meant or or capable of of dealing with a lot of magnetism. It's you know being diamagnetic and it would kind of suit the lineup. Um and and yeah, so I I think those are those are kind of the homes. I I could see them going that route if they really wanted to someday in the future for something like an Explorer 2. But uh I that I think would be even more surprising than say a Milgaus or a or an SD
Tony Traina . Ben, we're spending so much time uh you know talking about titanium because they rolled it out in the Yachtmaster and it's kind of the first time we've seen titanium in the catalog on a wide scale. But I'm curious what else you're interested in on the sports watch side of of Rolex
Ben Clymer . I'm interested in everything. You know, I I'm I'm a Danny Milton type here when it comes to Rolex. Um no look I think my my dream for Rolex and you know aga,in, no no inside information and this is certainly not going to happen, would be that they do nothing at all. Would that would but would would would be that they just say, you know what, like things need to calm down. We're just gonna make more of what's already in the catalog. Uh and I think that would send a really powerful signal to the market and to the industry that like, hey, we don't need to kind of keep on this like hamster wheel of just like churning out new stuff for the sake of new stuff. And I mean, look, Rolex does it better than anybody in that like they've been producing some mariners and Dayton's that looked just like the original ones for 60 or 70 years at this point. But I think just like taking a pause on new product, I think would be a really powerful message. Of course, like I really don't believe that they would do that or will do that. But I think it would be a neat story that would I think reset expectations. Um and again, we're starting to see brands do things like that. Again, Longa coming out with a watch last year, basically, um is is is is it it makes me feel good about like the longevity of collections and and watches and then it doesn't feel so and Rolex doesn't do this but like other brands will say hey here's a new here's a new light blue dial instead of a dark blue dial on a look or whatever, or here's something with baguettes on the bezel. Like and it just it it is it's a way to sell more similar product to the same people, basically. Um and so doing something that feels a little bit counter to that, that as I said hamster wheel of of new product, I think would be really neat. Again, do not expect Rolex to come out with nothing at all, but I think it would be a really neat, a really neat message. It has been cool to see Rolex and T
Danny Milton wo Geo both do the same thing ahead of the show, like within weeks of each other, which is release watches and partnership with sort of like big name either events or sports, entertainment with Rolex. It was the new day date with the Oscars with Tudor today, the day that we're recording this, the Pink Dial Black bay chrono. I mean this is like within weeks of the show, which is sort of odd. And again, they're basically like minor dial variations of existing watches. In the case of the black bay chrono, like also a new bracelet, but not new to Tutor, just new to the watch. Um and I wonder if that to Ben's point is like almost a signal of what kind of what we're in for. Because it would be neat if like the only new thing was, I don't know, a Sky Dweller update and then the rest of the stuff was like minor, minor finesses. Like you look at stuff like the explorer in 36 has a bracelet, you know, taper that's different than every other 36mm model. So it's like all the OPs then get that bracelet or whatever it is. It's just like that would probably be better to me uh than to get you know a random updated dial sets to the op line and crazy stuff to date just and whatever they could possibly do to the submariner which a new bezel a, new bezel for a GMT. Like, I don't know. I just feel like I think you're right, Ben. It would be, it would feel even better to someone who gets excited about these things. I don't need this. Like, there's plenty out there to enjoy still. Um I think you're totally right
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Danny Milton anything. Most likely. But it is interesting that Tudor has now released a effectively limited production watch, which I don't think I mean I I do think probably stuff like black bay silver, black bay gold are probably limited production as well. They're just it's not so stated. But this was like literally stated in the press release that that there won't be a lot of them made. Um and I don't think they'll appear on the tutor website and are not gonna be part of the traditional catalog, but if you happen to walk into a tutor boutique, there just may be one there. Um that sort of thing. It's been described to me as sort of tutor's version of the La Monde Tona in a way. Um in terms of not in terms of like look and feel necessarily, but uh you know um the rollout. I think um reception so far is pretty good on this watch. Um, and obviously, I think that's being influenced a bit by the fact that it's limited in in production. But putting that five-link bracelet on the Tudor Black Bay Chrono looks good. I mean, it's a kind of a chunky big watch, and that's the kind of bracelet that really makes it, I think, wear a lot better uh than Tudor's sort of oyster-style bracelet or the bun strap that it comes on. So, you know, kudos to Tudor for a minor a addition to chronograph that I'm assuming if we'll learn anything from this one, I'm assuming all Tudor Black Bay Chronos this year we'll get the five-link bracelet. That's what I'll take from this from this release
Tony Traina . That's a good assumption. Yeah, I think more broadly speaking, one of the interesting things about Tudor is just what may happen to the chronograph space more generally. They discontinued the Heritage Chrono last year, which is the watch that really really relaunched them in the United States back in 2012 or whenever it was. Uh so that's out of the catalog now. And then in old at OnlyWatch, the the OnlyWatch of November 2023 that never was, they had they were intending to release or auction off a gold kind of an old homage to the big block, I suppose, tutor, with uh yeah, with subdials at uh what would that be 12, 9, and 6. Um kind of the old big block style and the assumption is that will make its way to the greater catalog at some point. But Ben, uh you kind of just hinted at the fact that that that's something that's exciting to you, but uh curious what we'll see in the range of potential chronographs from Tudor this year
Ben Clymer ? Uh I I hadn't thought about chronographs, but I mean it it it feels like a I wouldn't say gaping hole because they have product there, but I think the product hasn't really resonated the way that that it should, if that makes any sense. Um, you know, the this watch is priced below a speedmaster, you know, in-house chronograph integrated, it's tutor, so it's cool and well made. I think a refresh of of the Black Bay Chrono would would go a long way. And I think it's a watch that I would find attractive on a personal level to the sense of like I would buy one if they if they were to make some tweaks here and there. You know, look, I think the Black Bay line in general is like this is almost like they're victims of their own success because I think the Black Bay 39, like the kind of one, the 58, is almost a perfect watch. And so even though they've come out with several iterations that may or may not be better for individuals here and there, I've kind of lost track of them because like I have my Black Bay and I love it. And I just like I don't feel the need for an another black bay. I actually I have several black bays. I've got the original ones and you know, stuff like that. But the one that I wear the most is a Black Bay 58. And so I think, you know, it it's I don't know if Tudor enjoys the same you know lust that its big brother Rolex or AP does where it's like, all right, like if you have one Royal Oak, like you're totally cool buying another royal oak if you can you know and if you have one modern Rolex like it's cool to get a few more because like you you you love them that much I don't know that Black Bay has that same kind of resonance um I will say I would buy a chronograph from Tudor. I I yeah I used to own the the Heritage Chrono many years ago, the blue one. Um you can see a week on the wrist by Ben Klimmer. I bought that watch after that review. Um but yeah, I think the chrono from Tutor could use an update in in my opinion, and not just the one that that we saw today with the the new dial and the and the Jubilee style bracelet. James
Tony Traina , you love Tutor as much as anyone. What what are you hoping to see from from the shield this year
James Stacy ? Yeah, I mean I I I do think uh I would align with a lot of what Ben and and Danny said. Like I I think we we may well see a chronograph. I would be interested in it not being a black bay. Like let give them a chronograph line, you know, they they had a swing with the heritage chrono, which went really well. And then on top of that, we had, you know, like the Fast Rider and that sort of thing. So I'd I I I think it'll be interesting to see where they take it, but in my mind, they could do the chronograph thing. They've also got their own manufacturer uh fully online. You know, that was a a big announcement at the show last year. And I think it'll be interesting to see if they do go the route of maybe even launching their own movement rather than uh basing off the uh Bright Lang B O one uh for their chronograph uses and that sort of thing. So I I I think I think the the sky's kind of the limit for them. I I do agree that they've gone in most the directions that feel obvious for uh the Black Bay. Um but uh the other side of it that is interesting to me is whether or not they expand further into the carbon space. You know, we saw them use carbon for the two versions of the Pelagos and now we've got a partnership with we need to come up with a better name than this, but RB Visa Cash App, the F1 team. Um and I I think that's we'll see something there. Obviously the drivers are uh wearing that's you know, Sonoda and Ricardo are wearing sort of ceramic black bay 41s with like a light blue dial. So maybe we see some expression of that. Maybe we see something a little bit more, even more in the automotive sense, which again kind of feels like we're painting a picture of a chronograph versus as a dive watch. Uh so I I I'm super curious because I I just flat out I'm I'm having a lot of trouble guessing and normally I've got a few I always have wish lists for tutor, but uh for predictions, I I'm this is a year where my curiosity is really high, but my intuition's uh I would say quite low
Tony Traina . Yeah it's interesting because obviously the F wane the F1 partnership was announced earlier this year and they haven't really activated on it yet or released a watch in partnership or playing off of that yet, whereas it took them less than twenty-four hours to release a pink dial within inter with the Inter Miami partnership. So it feels like they've got something cooking there. And I imagine it'll play on a lot of the things that that you're talking about because it does feel a little bit odd to have drivers wearing a a ceramic black bay dive watch.Feels like those guys need to chrono need a chronograph on their wrist at some point, I would think
James Stacy . I think what we're all saying is it'd be cooler if it was a chronograph. You know like there's nothing wrong with black based ceramic, especially one with a cool blue dial. The rest of it, that's a rad watch, whatever. I I think everybody can could, you know, folks who were gonna get behind it would get behind it. But it w it makes more sense to be a chrono. I do think it's funny to watch Tud
Danny Milton or start to massage the edges, like the Black Bay original Black Bay forty one last year starting to look a lot more like a submariner with the teethier, you know, bezel. And I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to predict you'll see a black and a blue version of that this year, uh just to sort of complete the trio. But also wondering if that design sensibility is coming to the Black Bay 58, which would be great to be honest. And then on top of that, since the entire black Bay line at the top would be Meta certified, probably, you know, that's the future for tutor across the board. Um, especially with the new facility and and that whole bit. So maybe like Rolex is kind of a similar thing. There'll be a lot of internal updates, um, and just sort of like uh you know, trimming of the fat a bit and just making everything a bit more cohesive across the board. Because there's a lot of Black Bay
James Stacy . Yeah, and it it it's a great lineup, but I agree that like when you when they bring out the updates, whether it's T fit in this bracelet but not in that one, or Metis on this color but not in that one, uh you've gotta think that their roadmap is to bring everything to a certain line so that they stop confusing folks. Yep
Tony Traina . Yeah, I mean it's it's confusing. And you know, I think probably at least a few of us on the call own a Black Bay 58. And man, it'd be nice to not be confused, even as watch people, like I want T-Fit on this watch, uh, you know, but I have to ask for it in this specific way when I go into to the dealer. But to Ben's earlier point, I think Tudor, I'd be totally fine if they didn't have sort of a hero product this year, like they had the Black Bay 54 last year. I think it'd be totally fine if they had nothing like that this year and they just kind of I don't want to call it cleaning up the catalog, but kind of caught everything up so that it's um in a similar place for folks who if you want the 37 millimeter or the 39 millimeter or the 41 millimeter dive watch, whatever it is, they're all kind of basically the same proposition inside and out. Uh, I think is kind of it'd be a good year for Tudor to focus on that type of stuff. Yeah
James Stacy . I I think the the last thing that people should consider with you know, we're talking F one and we brought I brought that up is like F one runs until December. So if if Tudor really wants the limelight, there's no reason that they couldn't do something later in the season, maybe even once that team has uh you know, there's an evolution of the car throughout the season and usually there's a mid season adjustment of the vehicles. And sometimes last year we had, you know, teams like McLaren really change their their pace and the outcome of their season in the latter half. So they're mu I I there's there's a side of me, the F1 side of me might say like they might be waiting for like a September or you know last the Tudor also last uh late summer did um the Pelgos black uh for the FXD. And so I think they're it's not a brand that's uh afraid to go and have their own moment and and maybe we won't see anything more than a couple mentions of the F1 thing or maybe some you know maybe they'll have driving simulators at the booth or something like that. Uh and we might we might see the watch uh later on in the year because the season is only three races in at this point
Tony Traina . James, that is the most sports analysis you have ever given me. Uh yeah that's amazing. I was thinking the exact same thing. I was like, this is like a really s sporty version of James Stacy. Man, you want to talk uh F1 tables a little bit more? Like who's gonna win the midfield this year, James? Yeah
James Stacy . Uh uh look, hey hey, I'm I'm I'll I'm forever in there for uh for kick. Uh let's see them. I'd love to see them really start to hit s hit a few points, but uh the season's already off to a real real exciting uh bend. We had our very unexpected race last week, so I'm pumped. Uh and uh uh honestly with a a a sport where you're kind of seeing a lot of Richard Mill is how it works these years, uh the last few years as far as like what the driver's putting on their wrists, and obviously the best driver operating on the planet right now is there for Tag Hoyer, which is a great win for them. And some really incredible kind of product planning has tied into that. But I I would love to see more brands. And if that includes Tutor, I'm I'm there for it for sure
Tony Traina . You know, James, you mentioned tag there just for just for a second, obviously their relationship with Max Verstappen, but I did a week on the wrist with their last box carrera just last year. I think I called it the most exciting carrera in in years. I think Ben, you shared similar sentiments actually. It mixes the heritage as well as the avant-garde thing that tag tries to do quite quite well, in my opinion. But uh anything in particular you want to mention about Tag, just briefly, Ben, just because I think they're a brand that uh it means a lot to the watch and industry it seems as though they might finally be finding their stride a little bit
Ben Clymer . Yeah. I look I mean you you said it as well as I said it and I think many of us have said it. Like the the 39 glass box is a great great watch. It's it's the best non-limited product they've done in years. I've said that thousand times. Uh we sell it in the store, we sell it well in the store. This year we'll see some really nice iterations of of that in some new colorways. I I think it's solid stuff. And as as James just mentioned, they've got they've got you know an amazing kind of um relationship with with Porsche and Max Verstappen and like he you know like they're really kind of coming into this their stride from a product perspective kind of right at the right time uh at the same time that he's peaking and it's um it's gonna be exciting and i think like i i have some idea of what's coming out over the next few months and like there's no question about it the tag is gonna be talked about a lot over the next few months including a launch that that we probably won't see at Watches and Wonders, but will be like on the tip of everybody's tongue and I think, you know, in in in mega demand, no question. I
Danny Milton agree. I agree a hundred percent. I think um even for someone who may not have been the like a pure chronograph guy that glass box like turned that around for me in a big way. Oh yeah for me. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that it's been really nice to see Tag Hoyer embrace Tag Hoyer recently um and not have to rely so much on the Hoyer Heritage stuff and the blending of the two uh feels like a really truly modern watch that's similar to what you know a Rolex and Tudor are good at is able to play on the heritage but it be its own thing. Um that's what the glass box represents to me. And I agree with Ben. Like can't say too much because we know some things. Um but it's exciting. It's exciting what we've seen and it's exciting
Tony Traina what we're gonna be seeing from them. Yeah, Danny, you you mentioned it there, but you you see this comment all the time. I think I saw it even on the Carrera video that I did. Is like it'd be a great watch if it said Hoyer on the dial and not Tag Hoyer. But like to me, it's the type of watch that tag hoyer should be making. And like it or not, the brand tag hoyer has been around for 40 years now or something like that. Uh, and you know, it's been making great watches and fits and starts. But for an entire generation of folks like Tag Hoyer and the Link and these watches from the 80s and 90s are like very ingrained in their childhood and their young adulthood. Uh, and I think especially as people are just like, uh, there's a lot of sort of pulling at the nostalgia string, I think, in all industries. Watches are are not an exception to that, but tag hour has a real opportunity, I think, to really draw on that heritage and that nostalgia. I think that's a
Danny Milton great point. I I think that like especially as brands are attempting to figure out a way to skew younger, Taghoir is in a really optimal position to do that, considering the fact that the 90s and early 2000s and even later, most people's first watch at that point was probably a tag wear in some fashion. Like their first sort of nice good watch as you're looking at folks in their you know 30s, 20s and a little bit younger. So with all the brands trying to sort of like latch on to that segment of the watch world, I think Taghoyer is embracing that name at the right time and with a lot of intention. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like
Tony Traina vintage, you know, sixties, seventies, Carreras as much as anyone, but there's an entire either. You like vintage watches? No way. Not I'm no Ben, I'm no Ben Climber. Listen, listen, but uh you know, I wanna know I'm wearing a vintage watch today in in honor of this podcast. Are you asking me to do a wrist check, Ben? Wrist check. I see I see three subdials. Should we leave it at that, or do you want to tell the people what you're wearing? No, it's uh it's just an old old Rolex. Don't worry about it. Okay. Guys, do you want to talk about paddock now that we've had our tag hoyer diversion? Let's do it. Ben, why don't you just pick it up? I think you probably have thought about this as much as anyone, as you even said at the beginning of the show. So what are you looking forward to from paddock?
Ben Clymer I'm uh dude, I'm dying for a new paddock. Not not from like not to buy. I'm just like I'm dying for I'm dying for something that I want, honestly. And I think like that that's that's the the takeaway here is that like I I love Patek Philippe. I mean it's like it is the high end brand, right? It's the one that like when you get one, you're like, wow, I I made it, you know, you really feel something special there. And it's the most, you know, along with Rolex, kind of the most special brand out there. And I just think the collection is is really needing kind of some uh revival in some way. Like, okay, you have the 5811 uh G, right? So you have a white gold nautilus that again in the wild I've seen one and it was on the wrist of like a highly famous person. So like no normal people have that watch. So it's like really not in the catalog. Aquanaut is still impossible to get and like kind of not that fun anymore. The the complications are now application like even 5270 now I think is like a soft application piece, which means like you have to have a history of five or six watches from a retailer, which is like, okay, that eliminates like everybody, basically, you know. Um and so like I'm looking for a really great watch from from the tech, as ridiculous as this sounds, like under a hundred thousand dollars, or let's say under fifty thousand dollars, which like there used to be lots in the way of the 5960 and some other annual calendars and some nice Calatravas. And they they still have some Calatravas that I really like, and they have some other ones that I don't like. So I mean, you know, as simple as it sounds, like I just want I want to want a Patek Philippe again, and I don't want it to be uh a sports watch necessarily and I don't want it to be super expensive and I know that's not like I I don't have any particular predictions. I mean there's there's there's this tale of a whole new family coming which I don't think will happen at Wash of the Wonders this year. Um, but I just I want to want a Patek again, a brand new one. Um and I want it to be, you know, I don't want it to be like available, but I want it to be gettable without an application. I want it like I just I want a modern Patek for for guys like us. And by us I mean like the people on uh on this call
Tony Traina . So it sounds like you're over the sports watch thing. It sounds like you're asking for some sort of new paddock on uh on a leather strap, I I suppose, and something that's not gonna be a strap or i mean it can be on a
Ben Clymer bracelet i'm i'm i'm okay with that you know but i just think like a uh like uh a a a as as my good friend William Rohr or William Messina who who all of us know us does like a real Patek you know like a true Patek uh and not that an Autolist and Aquanaut is not that, but like they're kind of not that, you know? And I like I'm talking like a really elegant wash that that feels really special and the quality is there. I want I want a Patek that feels like uh a Rechepre prochejeppy or I want a protect that feels like a new hida with that which has like real personality and charm and you know feels like somebody made it by hand uh or feels like a langa frankly that's what I want and I think, you know, something really soulful. And you know if, if you you wear if you've owned old Pateks, uh or if you've seen old Pateks, you know how kind of like emotional they can be and how beautiful and like re like very obviously handcrafted they they were. That's what I want from Pat
Tony Traina ek. Was there anything that they released last year or in the past couple of years that even came close, Ben? I think just you're kind of painting a uh a broad brush here, but they released the 6007 G Calatrava with those, you know, kind of colored accents and a few different colors last year. I don't know if that approximates what you're trying to talk about, but that was what, forty thousand dollars. Um I'm very excited. Yeah, o
Ben Clymer kay. What about like the six one one nine, the Hobnail, Cal Travis from a couple years back. Look, that's a really lovely watch and a really nice movement, uh for sure. And a major upgrade from what what the movement was before that. But I'd I'd like to see something kind of even more. I'd like I mean look, James, you and I have talked about the twenty five ninety seven pet tech for for years, the the travel time. And they they they came out with the travel time last year. I I didn't I didn't love the the execution of of some of it. That that's that's a brand that I think like they don't they don't need anybody's help, of course. Like they're doing just fine. Um, but I think as a as a collector and as a you know, I don't want to say a scholar, but like a fan, like a a ten year plus fan of the brand, as a consumer even, they're missing something that feels old school and special in that range of accessible for them price points. Again, like relative to an A Logan Son or an FP Jorn or even Laurent Ferrier or like those guys are making watches that are 50 grand and below that feel exceptional. And the text at 50 and below don't always feel that way. And I think that's uh that'
James Stacy s what I'm getting at, I suppose. Man, like a 2597 riff based on something like uh 5227 I think could be pretty cool
Tony Traina . Agreed. Last year they did the you you talked about the travel time. I think it was the five two two four R, the twenty four hour Calatrava style travel time. What what was miss
Ben Clymer ing from that? Okay. So that was neat because it was a 24 hour dial, which like I forgot I forgot that it was 24 hour dial. That I I I did find interesting for sure. But I think a lot of it comes down to the way the cases are designed, the dials are are made. Like it's it's really Petech is still Petech. You get to a 5172 and above and the perpetuals, the inline perpetuals, like those are really great watches, but they're really expensive. Uh and so, you know, finding uh finding something like a step or two below that from a from a cost perspective, uh, but still with very fine finishing wood would be really neat. Uh but yeah, you you I I totally forgot that that was a 24-hour dial watch. That is that is interesting at the very least
Tony Traina . Stacy, anything uh from from your eyes that you'd like to see from paddock? I know a couple of weeks ago in our fantasy draft, you you picked up the um the salmon world time chronograph, an excellent pickup, might I add. One of my faves of the last couple ye
James Stacy ars. It was actual dream watch for me. That's a good watch. I forgot about that one too. Sorry for that. That's a good watch too. Changing des I ne I can't forget about that watch. Um I would love to see just do another color version of that watch. Like you could there's some easy stuff here. Like that's a cool watch. It's a you know, with a steel case. Um I I yeah, I I think um you know for for for me for Patek I I like them when they have that like they can really hit the sort of grandpa charm of like a just a a subtle, beautifully made dress watch. Um, but then when they attack certain complications, they do so in their own way. You know, their travel time is sort of unique, a unique layout to their watches, whether they be the Calatravas that we've seen over the last couple years or the now discontinued aquanauts. For me, I'd be happy if it was a year of like a little bit less uh gem set, smaller Aquanaut stuff and that sort of thing, and more more yeah, maybe maybe a little bit more in the vein uh of like what Ben said, like something that p that people in in in a range that have gone to other brands could come back to Patek and be excited about. But I think, you know, largely I'm also at least a little bit talking way out of my game here, as I'm not, you know, I'm not Patek's next client, uh at least not that I'm aware of in the in the foreseeable future, but definitely a fan of the brand. And if they do anything in the world time space, they've got my attention because I just find those watches like endlessly endearing to sort of my sensibility for both complication and like aesthetic qualities and I like the history of that of that platform. Uh I personally really have enjoyed the Cal O Travis stuff the sportier stuff they've launched in the last couple years, whether it be the sort of almost field watch adjacent option. Uh all the way up to the travel time annual calendar. I just think like a deeply cool watch that someone like myself could wear quite comfortably every day. Aside from the price tag, of course, but that's a a problem for for you know a a different sort of conversation. But yeah, I I think I'm always just kind of surprised and and delighted by whatever they bring to market. But I I I I would have to defer to Ben simply because he's very much more both uh in the space and uh and a scholar of the space as far as what would be interesting for the brand to do. Tony, I'm I'm interested, like what would you like to see from Patek? Yeah, I mean Ben makes an inter
Tony Traina esting point and I'm thinking about it personally. You know, I I'll I'll pick up on a thread that he was starting on. And I think I'm gonna I'm gonna get back to Paddock by talking about Chopard and probably my favorite release from Watches and Wonders last year, which if if you followed the site at all, you would know is my uh is the Chopard 1860 with the salmon dial and steel that you know it's got this nice guilloset dial it's got a micro rotor Geneva steel movement all these things and it's 36 millimeters and it's an update of a watch that they released in the 90s but it's a beautiful watch. if And I were to spend twenty-five thousand dollars on a modern dress watch, that's the one I would get. Uh it's it's not easy to get, but it's not also hard to get. I know people that have gotten it within a month or two of asking a Chopard boutique or a shopard dealer. So it's it hits the sweet spot of like you have to ask and you have to reach out and you have to know what you're asking about to get the watch, but it's not this unobtainable thing. Uh and it's also a beautiful traditional size and it's got all of the craftsmanship that you would want inside and out from the Gioshi Dial to the movement that's Cosk certified and all of these things. And to me, it's just it says a lot about the state of paddock and some of their offerings in that category, I think, that I would want to spend twenty five thousand dollars on a shopard before there's anything in the paddock catalog that I would want to spend that type of money on. And I think there's no reason Paddock can't be making a a similar type of watch. Uh Chopard released that watch in the nineties. There's so many different watches that that Paddock made that were the exact same basically uh in that era. So that's kind of where I net out. And I think it's saying something similar to Ben in a little bit different of a of a way. I I think also
Danny Milton it's tough with Patek, just like with Rolex, because it's they don't need there's no there's nothing telling them that they need to do something because everything they do sort of works, whether or not it actually works, yeah, because it because everyone's buying it. And so there's no there's no consumer feedback. And so, you know, it's it's just it's always a difficult thing. I don't think like I'll give an example, but I don't think will happen this year. I don't think we'll see a steel Nautilus. I don't think that they need one yet at all. And so it's I kind of agree. Like I think that for me, sort of the we used to do the series, like the entry level of a brand, and sort of like picking up on like what the lowest cost watch was. And at the time we ran with Patek, it happened to be an Aquanaut. But I would sort of love to see more of that Calatrava stuff be that that sort of area where you can sort of enter the brand. Similar to the way you can do it with with Longa. I mean, it feels so nice that you can do that um and get into the brand with with some of like the best they're doing. It's not like it's not like they're they're chincing on you at that at that like lower level, quote unquote. So I don't know. For for me, some more finessing of Calatrava would go a long way. Um I I don't know that they'll they'll do that. I d I kind of feel like they won't. Um but yeah
James Stacy , you know, like Ben mentioned that there's watches that require you to have a history with the brand and that sort of thing. And obviously this is also something that's there's now legal conversations about um ladder buying, like get having to buy certain things that are less um desirable. This is something that's exceedingly common in the higher end automotive space. But let's be really clear, if I was a brand, if if or if any of us were running a brand, there's a very simple lesson in here. Make your entry-level product more desirable. And then people won't mind starting with uh uh you know, look at look at Longa with the Saxonia. Yeah. These are these are great watches that start out at quote unquote the bottom end of the brand, and there's no reason if you want to do this to your customers, if you want them to have a history, uh you need to make the entry-level product something that doesn't sit on your shelf at the behest of some other hype product. Well I I think the the
Ben Clymer the reality of the tech today is nothing sits on the shelf. Right. So even though like I could as like a watch dork could come up with some criticisms of of the less expensive Pateks, they sell. And they sell, I I think uh I know they sell at retail very, very quickly, very easily. I don't know what they trade for, like if you go to Chrono 24 or secondary, but the world is just so different now where it's like if you get offered a Patek at retail, you're buying it. Whereas years ago, I told the story ad nauseum, like you go you used to go into Tiffany and see stuff, you'd see an oddless sitting in the case, you know? And it's just a different world now where like if you get a call, you're you're gonna buy it. And so they don't, as as Danny said, like they just don't need to be better. And I'm not saying they're doing poorly, like the product is strong, it's stronger than ninety-five percent of the watches out there. But I think Patek should be stronger than ninety-nine point nine percent of the product out there. Ye
Tony Traina ah. Yeah, that's a good conversation about paddock. You know, I I do want to mention I went on about Shepard for a little bit. Long guy would put in the exact same category at that price point. So thanks for bringing that one up, guys. But uh I think that's a good conversation about Rolex Paddock Tutor Watches and Wonders more broadly. I think you can sense it in the air, guys, sense it in the microphones. We're all super excited. We've got some opinions, I think. I think we had some some good heated discussions, some predictions, but I think we're all excited to get to Geneva to see what we're actually going to be talking about. I think it's enough of the predictions, enough of the the wanting and the wondering, but next time I talk to you guys in about a week's time, we'll we'll have been hands-on with a day or for a day with with real product from some of the brands we just talked about. So we'll be talking about real things and it won't be so theoretical. So I'm excited for that. But in the meantime, thank you guys so much for joining the preview. Um and like I said, we'll be back. Hodinky Radio will be back next Tuesday afternoon, I suppose, probably US time, and then uh every day for the rest of the week we'll be stumbling over out of the show to record for you guys, uh for for you and the the adoring fans in the audience. Hopefully some of some of this great cast will will be on the show as well, if if they're willing. But in the meantime, safe travels guys, and we'll see you all in Geneva soon.