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Talking About Our Favorite GMT Watches From Tudor, Longines,And More

Published on Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:55:00 +0000

This week, James and Danny join the show to talk about GMTs. The past few years have seen an increase in the popularity of the travel watch. It feels like hardly a week goes by without an exciting, often affordable, new GMT. So today, we're talking about the wide world of everyone's favorite travel complication. In part kick-started by the 2018 release of Tudor's Black Bay GMT, fans of travel watches have witnessed a mounting of arms. This was spurred even further by the 2022 introduction of the budget-minded Miyota 9075, a movement from the Citizen Group that features an independently adjustable local hour hand. All of this has led to increased competition in the space and has made for a buyer's market that manages to offer an incredible amount of variety. James, Danny, and I talk about some of our favorite recent takes on the GMT, from smaller boutique brands up to larger marks like Tudor and Longines.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Tony Traina is joined by colleagues James Stacey and Danny Milton for an in-depth discussion about GMT watches and travel timepieces. The conversation explores the recent proliferation of affordable GMT watches in the market, sparked by key inflection points like the 2018 Tudor Black Bay GMT and the introduction of new movements from Miyota (9075) and ETA that have dramatically lowered the price barrier for true caller GMT functionality.

The hosts discuss how the GMT watch market has evolved from requiring $8,000-9,000 investments to now offering quality options starting around $500. James explains the technical differences between "flyer" GMTs (with independently adjustable local hour hands) and traditional GMTs (with independently adjustable 24-hour hands), noting how brands like Seiko, Citizen, and various microbrands have democratized these complications. The conversation also covers recent releases from brands like Notice, Raven, Mido, and Longines, with particular attention to how Longines has positioned itself in the mid-luxury space vacated by brands like Omega moving upmarket.

The episode includes speculation about future releases from Tudor, with both hosts expressing interest in seeing GMT functionality added to the Pelagos line or a Ranger GMT with a 12-hour bezel. The discussion concludes with collecting advice for a hypothetical collector (revealed to be Tony himself) seeking a modern GMT under $2,000, with Danny recommending the Seiko 5 GMT for its value and practicality, while James suggests options like the Mido Oceanstar GMT or the Seiko SPB381 dive GMT for those willing to spend closer to the budget maximum.

Transcript

Speaker
Tony Traina This episode of Hodinki Radio is brought to you by Accutron in the new DNA Casino collection. With 100 pieces made in four vibrant colors, the Accutron DNA Casino perfectly fuses futuristic watchmaking and bold design. Stay tuned later in the show for more on the brand's new collection or visit AcutronWatch.com for all the details. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Hodinky Radio. I'm your host, Tony Traina, editor here at Hodinky. Today I've got two other esteemed colleagues with me. We're going to be talking about something that's near and dear to both of their hearts. First of all, sliding in is James Stacy, Mr. Stacy, how are you doing
James Stacey ? What's going on folks? I'm doing pretty well. Yeah, no complaints at all. Uh I always happy to talk this topic. I mean pretty much any topic. I like just like to talk, but uh certainly this one is a near and dear to my he
Tony Traina art. That's right. Alongside James we,'ve got Danny Milton. Danny, calling in from an undisclosed location. How are you doing today? White walls. I also love topics, just generally, and super excited to be here. That's great. Well, it's become a bit of a bit I realized that I just don't know people's titles when I introduced them. I think I've screwed up three titles now. Uh I knew James's title. He was just giving me crap for supposedly not knowing it. Um and then I think I messed up Micah's title one week. So I'm not trying with titles anymore, but I'm glad to have you guys both on the show. As I mentioned, today's main topic is probably going to be a little bit shorter than previous weeks, but but that'll be okay. Starting next week, you're going to be getting a whole lot of hodinky radio. We're going to be doing our Watches and Wonders preview, and then the following week, a bunch of the team is going to be in Geneva for Watches and Wonders, and we're going to be doing daily recaps each day, uh, talking about what we saw in Geneva from all of the brands, same as we did it last year. So that's something to look forward to. Only there will be video. So it'll be back and better than ever really compared to last year. Thanks for pointing that out, James. Um no problem. First of all, first of all, James, what have you been up to? I mean, both of you guys have been traveling a bunch. So I just want to catch up briefly. I haven't seen you guys in a while. James, give me something good. What's been up
James Stacey ? Yeah, you know, since since hitting up uh Aspen for Ice Race, I've kind of been laying low, enjoying some time in spreadsheets and uh Google calendar getting ready for watches and wonders so I don't I don't actually have like a ton of travel uh on the list. I I got away for March break and and had a few days off with the fam but other than that just kinda in the mix and and keeping things going ',cause uh as a you did that intro, I realized, oh, that's true, we are very close to uh to being in Geneva for Watches and Wonders, which is both very exciting as someone who loves watches, but also terrifying as someone who has to go there and actually form form a way for all of us to cover everything we see? So sho
Tony Traina uld be good and uh very excited for it. They don't call him James GMT Stacey for nothing. Gotta navigate those spreadsheets somehow, I suppose, James. Danny. Danny.
James Stacey Look, the calendar' ins at least two time zones, so it's helpful. It's a terrifying calendar, I I have to say. S
Tony Traina peaking of time zones. Made by a madman. Speaking of time zones, Danny is across many different time zones from from James and myself and he's been traveling in even more of them. Danny. Danny, give me the download. What have you been up to? I've been putting GMTs to good use
Danny Milton , Tone. And I'm um currently uh not yet in daylight savings time. So five hours ahead of my colleagues uh again in an undisclosed location uh with uh unadorned walls but previously i was in was in switzerland for a little bit i got to check out some watches i can't talk about yet from our friends over at Show Pard. Uh our our our audience's favorite watches. Yeah and I know people are gonna love love that comment but um soon enough uh those watches will be revealed to us. Um and I'll say, look, having seen a few things trickle in for what we're gonna see at Watches and Wonders is gonna be a fun, a fun little year of releases. But um yeah, I'll be sort of traveling a bit up until the show and it's it's it's it's cool. I won't have any jet lag. That's a plus. You know, no one likes jet lag. Um so that's sort of what I'm what I'm up to, Tony.
Tony Traina Well, I kind of think the right GMT watch can solve a little bit of that jet lag. If you land and you know exactly what time you're you're jumping forward to, I think it helps, man. We're bringing back everyone's favorite segment, a segment that Danny pioneered on Instagram Live. We did a few Instagram lives back in the day. Uh, and we're bringing it back. It's called working titles still, something cool on your desk, guys. Uh Danny, I'm gonna give you a minute because you are flush with white walls all around you. I'm sure you need to shuffle around to find something. But James, definitely something cool around your desk that you want to introduce the folks to at home
James Stacey ? Absolutely, Tone. And you know, I'm glad you asked because I I recently got a brand new kind of solution for holding on to spring bars. I think this is probably a common problem among us and Was given in this beautiful dish. Uh, it's a glass uh salt cellar, and it's got some spring barbers in it, and I really like it. It's made by a uh an artist named Morgan Gilbreth, and uh I got it as a a birthday present from my wife and I I'm I really enjoy what it brings to the desk. A little spot for my spring bars, but also a little bit of color and and some texture
Tony Traina . You know, it's a problem that that hits home for me. I was actually I had taken the the clasp or the bracelet off of my my black bay 58 recently just to take a few photos and the the spring bar that keeps the clasp together is now gone so I'm stuck wearing my black bay 58 on a on a tropic strap right now uh so it's one that hits close to home and I'll be perhaps hitting up uh someone for a a spring bart dish at some point. It's a great bigger dish because I got bracelets floating around here too. We're gonna need a bigger dish. Danny. Danny, what do you got for us
Danny Milton ? All right. So uh I'm not at a desk, but I do have something cool. I'm becoming kind of a bit of like a bag guy. I don't know if that's like an affliction. I mean, I'm already aware of it. Secure the bag, Danny. Yeah, I'm trying to. This is something. You guys want to tour the bag closet? I mean, James, of course I've been trouble over here. Listen, Jim. So I'm I might be toting this thing around. Watches and wonders, the vintage ballet, sort of like smaller briefcase deal. It's like accordion style, so you can kind of open it up and fit a wealth of things inside of it. Notably you can fit an iPad the regular size inside which is pretty much all I need and a tiny camera. And so yeah, this is my cool thing. It's Swiss. So it sort of fits the theme and uh that's my that's the coolness I've got, Tone. That's cool. That's cool. I love a good accordion, honestly. That's she Milton. I like it. Yeah, sure, sure. When I find me walking around the Pell Expo, I'll be carrying my my accordion. Just some important paper
Tony Traina work. So much Motorola Star Tac. If you see Danny just walk around, just hand him a few papers just so he can stuff them in that briefcase of his. Yep. That's right. That's a few legal documents or and such ornate pens. Danny, do you want to see the something cool on my desk? I do. Can you show can you show us, Ton? Okay. So I got this. This was sent to me yesterday by uh an adoring fan. Look at this thing. It's like an indie car, a little model. It's a model of Scott Dixon's car, famed Indie car race car driver. It's actually signed by him here on the flank. Uh, this comes from a fan of Hodinki and a fan of Hodinky Radios. His name's Doug Laviolette. Uh he's got a he's got a foundation. They actually did a watch auction a couple of years ago. I and a bunch of other folks sort of donated a watch to it. Uh he said he's loving the show. He loves this segment in particular. So I wanted to be sure to feature this. Uh in this segment. I love that this segment is getting caller donations. That is the that this is not this is not a solid solicitation for future gifts. It's not a free way to get a shout-out on the podcast or anything. I don't want any of that to to be interpreted as such. Doug Doug and I go way back at this point. So uh so I just want to show you. That's what's happening. Yeah. Uh so that's my something cool for the week. Uh thanks gu,ys, as always for, for for for participating in that one. And hopefully we'll start to bring it back. I know we've it's gotten a little bit off of the rails in recent weeks, but the people love it. So it's it's back in better than ever. That brings us to the main topic for today's conversation. I've hinted at it a few times now. GMTs. Watches that you but you guys both love. It feels like hardly a week goes by that I don't see an exciting new GMT on the market. They're often affordable nowadays Be
Danny Milton fore we reveal them, I will I will bring up a thing that I did in the last episode I was on with you, Tony, which is I don't want to do that thing with my hand where I show the watch. I have to figure out a different way to show it off. What did we decide last time? I take mine off. Yeah, you gotta take it off
James Stacey and you gotta do the John Candy. Alright, hold on. Taking it off. Well, it's an explorer too in case you can't see.
Danny Milton I've got a microphone situation here, but here's here's what I'm working with, guys. I got my my GMT.
James Stacey Just a couple of relative GMT boys. We'd love to hear it. To be fair, not a GMT on my on my point. This is this will be one of the hills that I die on. It's just slowly trying to bring as many people as possible into the myriad uh uh permutations of the travel time. So this not this is not a GMT in the James Stace
Danny Milton y and Cyclone. That's definitely a GMT. My Explorer two isn't
Tony Traina not a GMT. That makes sense to me. I buy that. I can s I know where you're going with this. Yeah, of course. James, you've introduced as much parlance as any into this world of of GMTs. What do you call the uh the explorer two? Your explorer two, I should
James Stacey say. It would be a tw in my mind it's a twin time simply because you can't account for GMT with it, which is the point of the rotating bezel. Yep. And if you go back into the history of the uh of the Explorer two, obviously it was originally designed not even to do two time zones, but two times, uh to show you twenty-four hour time when you're theoretically, this is the story behind it, uh caving. If you're a professional or scientific spelunker, uh you would know, you know, if it's AM or PM.
Danny Milton Not to get pedantic, but but I but I want to get pedantic. Wouldn't that still just be one time? It's it is just one time. Yeah it's giving you shows it in two phases. Right. The most accurate depiction of the time that it is. So you so if it's just an idea of whether or not it's light or dark outside the cave. How
James Stacey long are spelunkers underground where that would become a fantastic question, Daniel? I have no idea. Okay. Because that's always been the question I asked myself. I'm not cave sized as a human being.. Yeah Too many chuds. I always I mean I say it all the time
Danny Milton . I I don't want to get us way off the beaten path here, but you know how like TikTok type creators will do a thing where you have to watch multiple videos to see what happens. And it's usually quite dramatic towards the beginning. There was a caver who was stuck in a cave that was flooding, and he and he was he couldn't figure out how to get out of the cave and and there's non sequiturs just to say I wouldn't I wouldn't want to be in that that situation. No, that'
Tony Traina s fairly scary to me. Yeah. Yeah, he should have called uh Elon Musk, I suppose. For those who aren't watching on the YouTube, James is is wearing his polar white dial 16570 Rolex Explorer 2. And James has or Danny, I should say, has his modern Batman GMT. Uh just for those who are not watching. So they came correct. They came on theme. We're talking about GMTs today, guys. James, I was reading through some of our recent reviews of GMTs, and honestly, I know you've written about a lot of the GMT releases over the past couple of years, but the sheer volume just kind of blew me away, honestly. Here's how you put it in your week on the wrist review for the Seiko SPB 381, I believe. Yeah, the green. Yeah, exactly. The dive GMT. You said the past few years have seen a specific increase in the popularity of the travel watch. In part, this was kickstarted by the twenty eighteen release of Tutor's Blackbait GMT. Fans have tr fans of travel watches have since witnessed a mounting of arms. New movements have led to new watches and increased competition in the space has made it a buyer's market that manages to offer an incredible amount of variety. I thought that was a good quote that was a good overview of the space. So James, I just want you to pick it up there for uh a minute, if you will, and just talk about uh some of the developments we've seen on the product and the brand side over the past couple of years in in GMT land
James Stacey . Yeah sure. I mean I I think the easiest way to think of it is we we kind of live in a pre or post Black Bay GMT sort of world. Uh before that, if you wanted the um local jumping functionality. So GMTs kind of come in two loose formats, which is defined by the movement, not by the dial design or the rest of it. And that's the ability to for to either independently adjust the main hour hand. So like when you go to a new time zone, you can adjust what would be your local time. And you can do so without stopping the movement. It'll adjust the date, that sort of thing. That was the functionality kind of underlined, established, et cetera, by watches like the GMT master, um, as they entered uh the later generations that had two separate uh time zones, and then of course picked up in some way by the uh explorer too. But there were other watches that did this, of course. Um you you eventually get to a point where if if you wanted that functionality, you had to pay quite a bit of money for it because the movements were different than what ETA was making. And ETA or ETA, now part of the Swatch family, had the 2893, the 2893 has the other option where you can uh independently adjust the 24-hour hand. This is exceedingly helpful if you want to say track another time zone from home. It's a little bit less useful if you travel to another time zone because you have to kind of reset the whole watch. Is it a big deal? No, not at all. They both do largely the same thing. And the idea is you have one view in 12 hour time, one view in 24 hour time. That's kind of the basic. Uh obviously things like a Patek will give you two 12 hour times and then a delineation of home or away for one of the hands. This is where we get into some of the confusing points. The major thing to keep in mind here is that you had to pay a certain amount of money if you wanted the uh local jumping AK, the flyer style GMT function. That really changed when Tudor brought the Black Bay GMT to the market. They essentially undercut the GMT master by, I don't know, 60%, maybe more at the time, 70%. It was just significantly less expensive watch that had that functionality, including the date and the rotating bezel. Since then, we've seen people grow in their understanding of the different versions of GMTs. And then uh about two years ago uh Miyota part of the citizen group they released the 9075 which really brought that flyer functionality into a much lower price point again basically doing what Tudor did to the uh Rolex movement, but doing it to the Tutor and bringing it back down. And now we're starting to see watches that have the same functionality as something like GMT Master starting at say 500 bucks. Um and at the same time in the last couple of years, Seiko released a new 24 hour style GMT. So that's worth where you independently adjust the 24 hour hand. And that can be seen in stuff like the SSK series, which is, you know, again, under five hundred dollars for uh a watch that can pretty reliably track two time zones. And in in that case you have the twenty four hour bezel as well. So you there's a few different ways you can go about it. But that's that's kind of the most compressed way that I can tell the arc of like let's say theoretically you used to have to spend eight or nine grand, then you had to spend four grand, now you can spend like five, six hundred bucks and get a really good travel watch. And and that's kind of the state of the market right now. I think it's a very difficult market if you wanted to introduce a GMT into the the middle luxury prices, like the two, three, four thousand dollars. There's a lot of work happening down below. And then as as you move up, you get more complicated takes
Tony Traina on multiple time zones. So a real inflection point, it sounds like, was 2018 when the tutor GMT came out. And I really just mentioned this because I want to make sure that we make a shout out to the video in which James was traipsing high above the Golden Gate Bridge through the fog and the haze of San Francisco. And I'm sure is you know many people's favorite week on the wrist video. But that was a big inflection point for the GMT
James Stacey complication, it sounds like. Is that right? Yeah, I think at least in the modern sense, you know, there was there was a time again when it didn't really track two time zones. It gave you twelve and twenty-four hour time. Then they separated that and really kind of established the GMT master as something designed for pilots, designed for changing time zones, that sort of thing. And then it's all kind of snowballed from there. And I mean Rolex is only one point, but they do kind of like control the space to a certain extent, maybe even more so than they do with, say, dive watches or or that sort of thing. And then I would say you eventually get to watches like uh the sky dweller, but then you
Tony Traina you've really kind of changed the format there. Well I did want to touch on the Miyota 9075 for just a moment. It was introduced in July 2022, like you said. It was first introduced in the Boulevard Wilton GMT. It wasn't the most attractive watch, if we're being honest, aesthetically speaking, but as you mentioned, part of citizen group. And since then, we've seen it really proliferate across a number of brands, both within the citizen catalog, and they've made it available to third parties as well. So a lot of micro brands have really started to leverage this movement. James, you've covered a number of these watches, uh, watches from Laurier, from Citizen, from Bolova, from Notice most recently. I'm curious, from your perspective, what's what still is getting you excited about the use of this movement in particular or uh maybe just the GMT space in this, you know, as you called it sort of the sub-mid luxury space, I think, uh maybe under two thousand dollars or so. What's got you excited as a
James Stacey guy who loves GMT still? Yeah, the ones that stand out for me are definitely options like Deloreo, which is the Hydra 3, a really solid watch for about $500. And then I think if you want to go a little bit higher, like up into the same price point as something like the SVB 381, which is a dive GMT, but has uh a Seiko movement that does the 24-hour independent hand rather than the 12-hour independent, the local hand. I I think the other the other element that's becoming quite exciting is ETA has a competitor to the 9075. Arguably, depending on how you you really look at it, it it's priced about one little bump up in so very low four figure. Um, but that's from the C07 family, which now you have watches uh like we did at we did our LE with Mito, the um OceanStar GMT for Hodinki. There's one there on the screen. There she is. And so this offers that same functionality as the 9075, the same functionality as something like the Black Bay GMT or the GMT Master, but at like, you know, under $1,500. And I think what's exciting me is that we have two options, the Swiss and and the Japanese option, both bringing a lot of value to the table. And the fact that the Swatch family via Eda has access to this movement, I I in my mind really frees up a ton of creativity because this is a movement that I think would look look and work great in a Hamilton, would look and work great in a certina, would look and work great in longines, which is what we see in something like the I've been changing watches the whole time, but the uh the LE that we did with longines in the Zulu time, also a fave of mine. And And uh and yeah, I think I think that's kind of the most exciting thing. I I love that when someone says I want a travel watch because I don't want to take my whatever watch, my more expensive watch somewhere that might be dangerous or or or just that I where I would worry about it when I'd rather just be on vacation. Now that you can have that five hundred dollar option and you can have it in both formats, which I think is kind of fun. We've always had decent options from EDA with like I said, the twenty-eight ninety-three where you'd have the the twenty-four hour adjustable functionality, you know, that's been around a thousand dollars or even less in some cases for a while. But to see more options on the market at a price point that isn't more is kind of uh a bit of an exception to the way pricing is working these days, which I kinda like. There aren't there aren't many way any many spaces in the watch game right now where things are getting less expensive. Yeah. Uh so it's kind of exciting to see Miyoda and Eda both kind of shifting that market downwards. And and I don't know that we're necessarily seeing like a chase to the bottom. I'm sure we will with the 9075. We've seen it in some watches even under $500. And I again I don't think that's a bad thing. It'll all depend on the actual product in the end. But I think what's most exciting is if you want to if you've always wanted a travel watch, or more specifically, if you wanted like a flyer GMT that the type that does what the GMT Master does and the Explorer 2 does. You've never had more options than now, which is great
Tony Traina . James, how many GMTs do you have on your desk right now? You've held up at least or travel watch. Eight or nine. Okay. So we've seen about if you guys wanna if you guys want to check that out. That's a recent story on the site. Can we talk about that one for just a just a second? I really like that. I really like that watch. Uh if you could just talk about so it's it's collaboration between Notice and Raven, two micro brands that have been around for quite some time now. Uses the Miyota 9075. It's called the Trail Trekker. And you wrote it up on the site. It'll probably be about two weeks ago at this point. Can you just talk about this watch for just a sec
James Stacey ond and what you like about it? Yeah, for sure. It's a collab between two, like you said, two American uh micro brands. It's about thirty-nine and a half millimeters. It's it's loosely formed. I mean, it's not um not even that loosely given the bezel. If you're if you're watching the video or if you want to check out the story on Hodinki, it obviously has some inspiration from the Explorer 2 with the bezel design. But they've otherwise coated the entire watch in a kind of very matte semi-dark DLC treatment. And then they've got Sarah Code on the bezel. Greatat, gre dial design with a lot of legibility for the markers, just due to the contrast between the gray and the applied markers. It has a date, screw down crown, good water resistance. I I like the small details that you get from micro brands. Like this is nerdy, but it's Hodinky Radio, so why not? Uh single-sided screws. So in the bet in the bracelet, when you buy this watch and you go to size it, you only need one screwdriver and you don't have to be like three-handed to hold the one screw in place and back it off and get enough torque to break through the loctite. It's just a lot easier and it's the kind of sign that like somebody who designed the watch was just an enthusiast from the start point. And then on top of that, they've got a really clever little micro adjust tool list that's built right into the clasp, which is another feature that I've I think should just be on essentially any watch, any sports watch with a bracelet should have the ability to to come in and out a few a few millimeters, and this one does uh ten uh pretty
Tony Traina easily. Yeah, I might be a little biased here. I talked to Wes, who's the the founder of Notice just yesterday, and I know he thinks about all these details and he's an enthusiast as well. So it's it's one of my favorite releases I've seen from them recently. It was cool to see it on the site. Danny, I want to kick it over to you for just a second because we talked about Tutor Danny and the Black Bay GMT from 2018. Another kind of recent inflection point in GMT world was the the Seiko 5 GMT that was released in 2022. Uh, I remember you introed them and we were all just really excited about them because it was at the time, at least it was a $475 GMT with Seiko's new kind of it was a four R family movement that had the 24-hour jumping capability. Can you talk about sort of the impact that that watch has had on the market as well and kind of the continued excitement that Seiko manages to bring in this in this category?
Danny Milton Yeah, I like to bring up like anecdotal evidence for the points that I make. And one of them is like in a other than the moon swatch, the watch that I've seen pop up on on wrists of folks who like are getting into the hobby is that watch. I think that watch has had like a very far-reaching impact at the part of the market that I think is extremely important, which is I want a nice watch under a thousand dollars uh that can kind of do everything for me much the same way that the skx used to do. But yeah, I think that um contrary to the fact that early last year I made a call in a in sort of a prediction story that we need less affordable GMTs on the market just because I think the market is getting a bit flooded with them, which is sort of the opposing point that I think James is making. I do think that the Seiko was the spearhead, sort of the tip of the spear. And I look at that watch kind of often and say to myself, I mean that thing just aesthetically works. And to be honest with you, and maybe James, you do the same thing. The way I operate at GMT fairly often when I'm at home is I just use the bezel. You know, if I want to use the the dial to operate as a 24 hour indicator with the GMT hand and the time being the time in 12 hour increments, and I want to know where my family in Europe, you know, my my in-laws, what time it is, I'll just rotate the bezel, six hours. And um Seiko gives you that for 495 or 500 and whatever dollars now. Um, because to me, the jumping hour hand is awesome. Uh, it's great, but it's not essential for the GMT. And and so it's it's like you're getting so much in a watch that Seiko is offering. And I think it probably hasn't gotten the attention that the Tudor Black Bay GMT got in twenty eighteen. Um, but it is it is um I think it'll be a slow burn with that Seiko, and as I'm constantly seeing it all over the place on people's wrists and on that Jubilee bracelet, the Jubilee style bracelet, it looks like a $2,000 watch. Um, it's just a killer piece. And one that I'm honestly considering adding into my own collection at some
Tony Traina point. Danny, can we double click on your it was a 2023 predictions take that you briefly mentioned there now. You said I think the headline of it or the subhead was budget GMTs will probably continue, but they shouldn't. Unless you can produce a GMT with independent hour hand functionality or make a collar GMT for under a thousand bucks like Seiko did last year, let's take a break. So you said that at the beginning of 2023, this was just as the the Miyota 9075 we talked about was was coming on the scene. And uh as we've kind of been talking about here for a few minutes, GMTs have really proliferated the market of all kinds. So what do you what do you say in response to your take of of a year ago now in in response to sort of what we've seen in the market. I love a hot take
Danny Milton . Oh me too Danny. Um I do think things have changed slightly. I think James is pointing to a future where the trend, a rare trend, as you put it, James, is that somehow the pricing is going down for the ability to create highly functional GMT watches. And what I was getting at was I think a lot of brands were trying to hop on the GMT wagon just just to say that they did. Whereas I think models like the notice and you know other other watches sort of utilizing, I think the Long Jeans is a good example of this where it's like, I think more brands are getting into the habit of doing the GMT for the right reasons, which is showing that you don't need to have a $10,000 watch in order to have the functionality of the independent hour hand, the rotating bezel, \(24-hour bezel, and be able to sort of function at a high level. Um, so that's sort of where that came from. Now, would I made the same point in 2024? Probably not. Um, it doesn't seem to bother me as much anymore. I do think that with GMT watches specifically, I think brand ends up being an important sort of like link to what you're doing. I think Seiko having a 40\)0 or 500$ GMT is important. I think long jeans having a uh a GMT watch sort of in the what is it like two, three thousand dollar range, James? Yep. That's important. I think having cornerstone brands be tied to specific GMT watches to me is important. Where I think we run astray is when it you just start flooding the market with the same aesthetic, and then sort of the buyer doesn't really know where to turn. And so for me, it's just like, let's have our cornerstone watches be our cornerstone watches in our price segments. Um, because I'm not the one out there who's going to be buying up a bunch of microbrand GMTs. It's just not my sort of style. And I think that's sort of where my my take might morph if I had to do it over today
Tony Traina . Oh Danny. We've got one delivering soon. Do you want to tell the people, James, or are we going to save that for a future e
James Stacey pisode? I I think it was one that we talked about on uh for the previous episode I was on, which is the the draft. It it's the Arkin uh still uh uh looking forward to that one very much. And that's that one doesn't actually conform to any of what we've talked about. It's uh Kenneth kind of came up with his own like derivation of an AM PM indication for another time zone. So I'm excited to get a chance to play with that. But that's so deeply up my alley. We'll we'll get a story out when I when I get a chance to see one in
Tony Traina person. I'm glad you gave it an endorsement because it caught a stray from Danny a couple weeks ago on air when we were when we were debriefing the fantasy draft. So I'm glad it's got the Stacey endorsement out. I just want to say I we're all complicit in that story, Tony, not just We're excited that Hodinki Radio is back, and our return is thanks in part to this week's sponsor, Accutron, and its new DNA Casino collection. Driven by the world's first electrostatic energy movement, the new Acutron DNA Casino collection fuses vibrant colors with futuristic design. The four bold new colors, each limited to 100 pieces, are inspired by the bright lights of Las Vegas. The DNA is an update of Accutron's original icon, the SpaceView, the watch known for its revolutionary tuning fork movement. The DNA updates the Acytron's Space View for the modern era with a 45mm stainless steel case and integrated rubber strap. Since introducing the world's first fully electronic watch in 1960, Accutron has continued to push the boundaries of timekeeping. The Accutron DNA Casino Collection synthesizes bold colors, innovative technology, and a retrofuturistic design to make a bold statement. Accutron, it's not a timepiece, it's a conversation piece. Check out the new DNA Casino collection on AccutronWatch.com or the new Citizen Flagship Store, New York. A big thanks to Accutron for its support. And now back to the show. Danny, you were talking about sort of the larger brands and and some of these larger brands having a a GMT and that type of stuff. I I notice, or I'm cognizant of the fact that we're uh some ways into the conversation now. We haven't mentioned any large brands besides Tutor's impact on really creating this space and then obviously Seiko doing Seiko things. Uh one of my favorite releases in the gmt space over the last year honestly was the Zulu time being sized down to 39 millimeters. This is the long jean Zulu time and obviously Hodinki did its derivation on it with the the titanium version last year that I thought was a a cool take on the the GMT as well. But James, this is a watch you've you've reviewed for us. I think it comes in if you if you get the bracelet, it comes in at $3100. And I I want to move the conversation upmarket just a little bit, James, and sort of talk about uh what's happening in that space. I think lawn jeans is is killing it. Uh maybe I'll zoom out more broadly just to just for a second. I just want to say something about lawn jeans more broadly because I think they're killing it in general, right? Uh there's a lot in the catalog that's not for for enthusiasts like us, I suppose, but man, there's a lot that is. Uh I reviewed the dress watches recently with these engraved brigade numerals. They continue to have these time-only things that are heritage inspired but not super hokey, but they also have every type of tool watch you could want. They've added this GMT. They've got obviously their dive watches as well. They've got heritage inspired and modern feeling ones. I
Danny Milton would also say, Tony, that even the non-enthusiast stuff seems to be coming closer to that line of where the enthusiasts might like them. Bringing up the Hydro Conquest GMT is a good example of that to stay on topic. Like that's a watch that previous iterations of Hydro Conquest period were just not something I even looked at. And now I'm I I've looked at that watch several times and thought to myself, you know, maybe.
James Stacey Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think what's interesting is is uh and and you you pedal you that didn't backpedal, you turned around and basically went where I was heading. Is I think uh Longines is an interesting company to talk about the use of the ETA caliber, the the CO7 uh caliber that that's allowing for this functionality. But I think there is a broader conversation, like you mentioned, about just where longines has placed themselves in the last two years, maybe three years. And I think this is a brand that for a long time had the heritage side. Uh, you know, we've done some LEs that were on more on the dressy side with them, that sort of thing. And they have this incredible back catalog of like gorgeous art deco mid-century sort of designs. But and I don't w beanna unfair because let's be clear, in some ways they helped create the heritage vintage throwback thing with the original Legend diver. They were right in there with Oris, kind of at the start of like, oh, let's go back and just recreate something. But I think that for a while they were missing the like core tool watch, the like de facto diver. They they've had the Hydro Conquest for some time, but it kind of lacked a a certain refinement or like identity. And I think just in the last few years, especially with the Spirit Collection, they've done just a remarkable job at finding a a middle ground that I I think really mirrors a uh an era of brightling that I really appreciate. It has the there's a a strong focus on legible sports watch in sort of the mid-century vibe, but with my some modern consideration. And I think they're doing a really nice job. Uh, you know, R L E's uh definitely my to my preference. It's the one that I like. I've got one. It's great, but I don't think you can go wrong with the majority of what they've got on the market right now. And I think what we're seeing is maybe the final little shreds of like a decade-long shuffle of the sub-luxury market. So if you consider Rolex kind of a line and you're either above or below, Rolex pushed up, Omega pushed up. This happened five, six, seven years ago, um maybe even more than that at this point close to ten years ago. And as they pushed up, they created this vacuum. And we saw Zinn fill the vacuum for a certain type of buyer. We saw longines make certain moves uh maybe more on the dressy and heritage informed side, field watches, things like that. And now I think we're just seeing them kind of fully take the place that Omega used to sit at before everything was coaxal and highly anti-like the more expensive technology that they've brought to the market. And I think in many ways, the trickle-down effect from Omega's technology into uh you know elements of of the EDA product, you know, in tur, especially in terms of anti-magnetism and now more functionality, I think we're just seeing maybe the the the fruits of what's of a shuffle that's been happening for the better part of a dec
Tony Traina ade. Yeah, it's it's interesting. I was seeing some of their products, you know, previewing their product releases for 2024 a couple of weeks ago. And their their head of products said something that they're not trying to move up market. They see $2,000 to $6,000 as basically their core, which is good to see. I mean, you or it's good to hear because you mentioned a lot of these brands that have moved up market recently. It has left a gap for collectors who want something between all of the great micro brands and the Miyota 9075 stuff we've been talking about and the GMT master that that guys like Dannyware, but it might not be for everyone, you know
James Stacey ? Yeah. I I think that I think that's exactly it. I think that longines tutor maybe got there or or really like cut their way into the market hard with the Black Bay, which is now more than a decade uh, you know, on on the market. But it I think it's kind of an interesting thing to consider like that there was more room there. And Langines has operated in this space. I just think that they've really found a pace in the in the last little while for sure
Tony Traina . Danny, we've mentioned Tutor a little bit. They obviously kind of created this category as we've talked about, but it it was six years ago at this point that the GMT Black Bay was released. We've seen a new dial. They added that opaline dial last year, which is which is a nice, nice addition to the catalog. We should also mention the Black Bay Pro, I suppose, as kind of a a derivation on it. Sure. With a fixed bezel. I'm curious from your perspective, what would we like to see from Tutor in the future of kind of this category of watches
Danny Milton ? I think everyone would say put the GMT in a Black Bay 58 case and call it a day, or at least do what you did with the Black Bay Bay Pro, which like obviously they could just do that. It's a different bezel at that at that juncture. I happen to be maybe in a camp that's closer with what James would like to see, which I don't know if he would even think I would suggest this, but I happen to prefer the Pelagos case. I happen to think that a sports watch with crown guards just overall speaks to me more. I don't I don't particularly love a watch that embodies the sort of like faux vintage aesthetic so forwardly and and so I would prefer to see something in the size and spec of the like the FXD or the the Pelegos uh is it just called the Pelegos 39 James, the one that you have? Yep. Yeah. So something in that mold. Um and obviously I think that Tudor would do it in titanium because that's just how they would differentiate it from the Black Bay. So if you took the Pelagos 39 format in titanium with a bicolor bezel. I mean, that's game over. I mean, I really think you'd have you'd you'd have it. Um obviously it'd be a little thicker, but I've worn the Black Bay Pro and on wrist, it is like a very imperceptible thickness. And so it would still be a winner in my book. And I I have to think, I don't think it'll be this year, you know, but I do think, you know, the next two, three, four years, we're gonna see that format embrace, you know, a few other options. I think the Pelagos will go be
James Stacey yond diver, despite its name. Yeah, I mean I I'd certainly I've been keen. I've talked about that uh that watch like at a hypothetical level for a long time. I think it'd be exciting to see a Pelagos GMT, even in the larger size. I don't think that the 42 is unwearable. I just prefer the 39. Um, we are starting to see the inclusion of complications into the uh pelagos with the uh carbon chronograph that they did with uh the alingi uh yachting team. I I think the other one the other one that uh might be more interesting and it's arguably the you know, we're talking about inexpensive GMTs. The core forever inexpensive GMT will be a 12-hour bezel, uh, which requires no change at all to the movement, really no additional costs. And if you're not diving, then why not use the bezel for essentially being able to have two watches on your wrist, two time zones. Uh uh you know, I've got uh yet another uh marathon navigator here, which has a lovely twelve hour bezel, which I really do enjoy. It's about the easiest, most simple way to track a second time zone. Like I said, also adds no cost. And I would love to see them do uh Ranger 2. Take the 39mm ranger, throw a bezel on it, uh, and make a 12-hour fieldwatch. Um I just think that the functionality would be there. You could offer something that a lot of the market isn't right now while still managing to speak to the GMT nerds in the in the space. Uh so I mean if we're if we're dreaming, I would love to see what uh because I like the size of the case on the ranger quite a bit, the 39. I don't like how big the dial is. The proportions, I think for me, a field watch feels a lot better at 36, 37 than larger, and that's a dial to case sort of ratio because there isn't the active bezel. In this case, I think if you threw a bezel on it, you'd make quite an interesting watch. Um, especially for this sort of era of uh of travel watch that we're in currently
Tony Traina . Yeah, that's a good one. You know, last year Hamilton released this khaki field expedition, they called it. It's kind of a beefed up Hamilton khaki field mechanical. New movement, screwdown crown, these types of things. And they added a rotating bezel, but it's a compass bezel. And I think that was the biggest beef that I and a lot of other people had with it. A compass bezel is technically speaking not actually useful. You don't need a compass bezel to do the purported functionality of what a compass bezel says it can do. But if they had thrown a 12 hour bezel on that, it would have gotten very close to exactly what you're talking about and it would have been a grand or something like that. And that would have made it a really fun and interesting variation on the uh on the form
James Stacey . Yeah. Yeah, I think it's it's it's kind of a a popular thing right now to to lean into either the the two movements that we've been talking about. But I always worry that it you know there's so many different ways to track two time zones or or more. And I think that the uh who knows, we may we may see more more folks lean in on the twelve hour bezel, especially because again, if your goal is to hit a certain price point, not needing to pay for the more expensive new movement is one way of keeping those costs down
Tony Traina . Guys, are we ready for a quick collecting advice? Oh sure. Of course it's GMT related. I'll reveal the name at the end here because it's relevant. Okay, so here it goes. Today's collector is in his early thirties. He's got a handful of what he'd consider nice watches, vintage and modern, but nothing crazy. Vintage Rolex, vintage Cartier tanks, a few modern watches like a Black Bay 58 or a Unimatic. He could go on, but it'd start to feel a bit gauche at that point. He looked at his watch box the other day, though, and he noticed something concerning. There wasn't a complication to be found. He travels once a month or so for work and he's seen a few nice photos of recent GMT releases, usually from that James Stacy guy on Hodinky. He likes the idea of a modern GMT to track additional time zones. Opening that clock app on his iPhone is such a hassle after all. Given his collection, he loves the idea of a watch with heritage, but nothing too tired. He says his budget is $2,000 and under. Danny, it looks like you I can see the calculations spinning. Why don't you give our our young collector, our young enthusiast a recommendation? We've been talking about so many different watches over the past handful of minutes. It's time to put our money where our mouth is and actually make recommendations for for this young guy.
Danny Milton I'm I'm gonna go with that Seiko. I mean I really think just because we're maxing out to 2,000 doesn't mean we need to spend the max of our budget here. And I think that it's just such it speaks to what James and I were talking about. It's the kind of watch that you don't have to even consider whether or not you're going to bring it with you on a trip to a given place, which I think the purpose of a GMT watch is to have it while you travel, knock it about, build memories with it, sort of just like have it be a companion with you. And you're I from a brand perspective, I think getting into Seiko and understanding what is so amazing about being able to buy a watch at effectively $500 that will need minimal, if any, service for almost a decade, if that, and you can just sort of like beat to hell, dive with it, travel with it. Um let's save $1,500 for our dear reader here and go go Seiko. You have a preferred bezel dial option? I think the black and gray bezel red GMT hand for me is sort of the way to go with this one. James, recommendations
James Stacey . Yeah. I mean it in my mind, if you want to spend that kind of money, you've got three really good options and it kind of depends on and and I'm going to go towards actually spending uh the cash, although I don't disagree with Danny, if you can buy a cheaper travel watch and travel more, that's probably the preferred option. Uh take it somewhere cool rather than spending the travel budget, you know, on um on the watch itself. But assuming uh this fell is all budgeted out and everything's good I I I really would recommend taking a look at the Boulevard Oceanographer GMT uh which comes in three versions and you can have an option with a twenty four hour bezel like a more traditional Pepsi style layout, or you can have a diver with a loom dial that gives you kind of two options. And the diver, if you're not wanting to use the bezel to actually do the time zone management, which is one way of doing it. Um the diver does offer you of course a dive bezel, so that's an additional feature, especially if you find yourself timing things uh to the minute every now and then. I think along right alongside that, you you have to consider the Mito Oceanstar, know you, we did one. Mito has another uh currently on offer. They have uh several more in slightly larger case sizes. Um but at fifteen hundred bucks, or I think it's just to be fair, ours is thirteen ninety. Uh there's a few left of those. They come with three straps, and that gives you the great functionality. It gives you a classic look. It's a screw-down crown. I really wear this watch a ton and adore it. It's the exact one that I would probably be buying given this set of constraints because it's um a very unobtrusive travel watch that I could you could wear all the time. But it has the 24 hour bezel. So it's very easy to modify whether you want to track a time zone from home, like for knowing whether what time it is for Danny where he is, if in my case, or if I'm traveling and and I can very quickly update the watch. And that functionality uh as Danny said is not crucial, the the local jumping flyer functionality is not crucial to make it a good GMT, but it is kind of fun. I mean, uh complications are fun. And then finally, if you want something that has uh kind of a blend and takes Danny's idea a step further, go with the SPB 381 or 383, spend the $1,500. Uh, those are dive GMTs. So again, it's a little bit different of a format, but uh $1,500 you got are some really, really good options. I would lean towards the Mito. It's what I have and enjoy. Um, but I I've spent a lot of time with the Boulevard's, I've spent a lot of time with the Seiko's and they're very competitive, uh, great products. Well,
Tony Traina guys, I'm not giving a recommendation this week because the big reveal is do you know who the collector is? That's right. Is it Tony? Is it Tony Treina? It's your host, guys.. It's your host So I'm gonna take uh I'm gonna take your recommendations under consideration and we'll do a reveal in a future episode. We're gonna put our money where our mouth is at some point. I'm gonna have a GMT in the collection before long, I guarantee. I love it. I guarantee it guys. Just to be clear, you can borrow any of mine. I have way too many. That's true. I just need to hang out with you for an afternoon. Well, guys, we're we're up on time. I appreciate you taking the time to really dive deep on GMTs. Uh we'll we'll see you again next week for the beginning of our Hodiki Radio Watches and Wonders coverage. Of course, stay tuned to the website for all things watches too. And thank you all for listening. Thanks to our editor, Vic Autominelli, for her help on the audio and the video. And we'll talk to you again next week.