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Jonathan Ferrer (Founder, Brew Watches)

Published on Wed, 20 Mar 2024 16:55:00 +0000

My guest today is Johnathan Ferrer, the founder of boutique brand Brew Watches. He founded Brew nine years ago after studying industrial design and short stints with other brands. Brew was inspired by his days spent sitting in coffee shops, working and designing—not just the coffee, but the culture of unwinding and relaxing. But I'll be honest, that's not what attracted me to Brew. It's the retro but totally modern vibe he's managed to capture in all of his designs, most recently in the Metric. Jonathan and I talk about his journey as a designer and entrepreneur, the times he almost called it quits, and what's next for Brew. Along the way, we also chat about some of John's other passions: cars, coffee and bikes. Jonathan is a great designer and an even better guy – I hope you enjoy our chat. Thanks again to Accutron for supporting Hodinkee Radio. For more on the Accutron DNA Casino Collection, visit accutronwatch.com.

Synopsis

This episode of Hodinkee Radio begins with a fantasy watch draft recap featuring editors Tony Traina, Mark Kauzlarich, and Danny Milton. Mark won the draft with 40% of the vote, having selected an impressive collection including a Patek Philippe 5004, Pepsi GMT, and vintage Calatrava. The hosts discuss what went right and wrong with their picks, with Tony coming in last place despite choosing watches like an original Datograph. They reflect on lessons learned, including the notable absence of any Omega watches from all participants' selections.

The main segment features an in-depth interview with Jonathan Farrer, founder of Brew Watches. Farrer shares his journey from growing up in a family of jewelers (his grandfather designed for Cartier, his father worked at Tiffany's) to studying industrial design and interning at Movado. He recounts the early struggles of launching Brew, including a modest $38,000 Kickstarter that initially seemed successful but nearly led to failure when he didn't have a second product ready. After hitting rock bottom with quality issues and a failed design, Farrer found a better manufacturer and launched the Retrograph, generating $100,000 in sales in one month and turning the company around.

Farrer explains Brew's inspiration from coffee culture and retro design, emphasizing how he balances creative design work with business operations. He discusses his design philosophy of looking at everything except watches for inspiration, drawing from vintage radios, cars, and furniture. The conversation concludes with exciting news about upcoming collaborations, including a limited edition with Alton Brown, and a wild activation involving sending a Brew watch and espresso machine into space. Farrer also shares his passion for cars, revealing he won his first car (a Mustang) in a raffle and now drives a Ferrari for special deliveries.

Transcript

Speaker
Tony Traina This episode of Hodinki Radio is brought to you by Accutron and the new DNA Casino collection. With 100 pieces made in four vibrant colors, the Accutron DNA Casino perfectly fuses futuristic watchmaking and bold design. Stay tuned later in the show for more on the brand's new collection, or visit AccutronWatch.com for all the details. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Hodiki Radio. We've got a great guest coming our way in the back half here. I'm going to be interviewing Jonathan Farrer of Brew Watches, which will be exciting. I'll do a more complete intro of him after the top of the show here. But at the top here, I've got two colleagues of mine, two editors, Mark Kowslerich. Mark, how are you doing? Doing great. Thanks for having me back. As well as Danny Milton. Danny, how are you? Doing great, Tony. Doing fantastic. Well, I called these two esteemed colleagues of mine on because we wanted to do a bit of a fantasy draft recap. We did that a few weeks ago. You two as well as James joined me. I first of all wanted to announce the winner uh with uh about a third of the vote, 40% of the vote even, Mark won. Mark, how do you feel? No doubt in my mind. There was never a doubt. I feel great. I felt as great as I felt when I picked all the watches. As soon as you picked the 5004, I think there was never a doubt in anyone's mind that you were the favorite. And just to remind the people what you had, you had a Pepsi GMT, a modern Pepsi GMT, a paddock 5004 was your complication, the Rolex was your sports watch, of course. Your dress watch was a vintage paddock five six five Calatrava with brigade numerals and luminous hands you were keen to remind us all. Your indie was the Rickchip Rickchap BCC two, and your final watch was the green Seko Willard SPB153, the budget watch. Now that you've been living with the collection for a couple of weeks, you still feel pretty good about the lineup you've got there
Mark Kauzlarich ? I think it gives me a lot of variety, honestly. Yeah. I uh living with this collection, yeah. I mean, um actually I just got back from a little trip to Italy and uh got to try on another 5004, was very confident with my pick going in, and after getting to wear it again for a little while, um, no regrets whatsoever. Uh the rest of the watches are weirdly, I don't know if they're in my safe somewhere. I've misplaced them, so I haven't gotten aware a lot of them. But uh yeah, I'm I'm super, super confident. J
Tony Traina ust a couple of five thousand fours hanging out in Italy. We love to hear it. Danny, you were a close second place, so I just want to ask you, where do you think it went wrong for you? Where do you think it went off the rails as the runner-up?
Danny Milton I just want to remind everyone of the old first is the worst, second is the best adage. Just just throwing that out there so we don't forget it. You know, we played a complete game, I left it all out on the field. I think didn't close out very well, probably. You know, we had a great first half, bad second half. I was sort of tracking the the poll as we were going, to be honest with you. Mark and I were neck and neck for a good deal of this thing. And then at uh late in the game, while Mark was in Italy, he really pulled away. And I'm a little I'm I'm I'm not I'm not gonna yell conspiracy here, but I really think that something something happened in Italy that changed the course of this, these results. I'm not gonna demand a recount yet, but
Tony Traina just just putting it into the ether. Oh man, we'll have to check some IP addresses. But I think uh I thought you were going a different way. You started out really strong, Lamont Daytona, and then you kind of fell off from there if I'm being honest. I liked a lot of the I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why right now I didn't have Rolex. I mean it's really obviously where I went wrong. Sure, sure. Uh listen, I'm giving you some crap here, but uh I was the one who came in last place with I don't know, probably less than 10% of the vote. I don't know where it all went wrong for me. Maybe I was trying to get a little bit too cute choosing a burner own in the indie category, a watch that technically doesn't even exist yet. The one I regret the most though, honestly, is complication. I went with the original dado graph. First of all, I should have had a little bit more fun with the complication. It's hard to compete with a 5004 as much as the datograph is a cool watch. And honestly, it's not the best wearing longa on my wrists. So I don't know what I was thinking. I I I know what I was thinking. Let me take it back. I know what I was thinking when I chose that watch, but I wish I would have thought outside the box a little bit more upon reflection. So that's you know, that's the one I chalk up my last place, my last place finish to. But we'll be back before long, I think, with another fantasy, a fantasy watch traff. What did you want to say, Mark? I think you wanted to probably take a show with some of my collection as well.
Mark Kauzlarich No, not so much. I mean, I I just uh and I know he's not here to defend himself, but how did it feel to come in last behind the fever dream and that was James Stacy's picks? Because I I don't know what he was on. I I loved it. Um I didn't think there was a lot a lot of uh faith going into the end there that he was gonna pull out the wind. I mean he was confident but uh to to come in last to that was be pretty phenomen
Tony Traina al, honestly. Uh yeah, it was a wonderful performance. It's uh you know, it's an indictment on me, on my hosting abilities, all kinds of things. I will say I also had the last choice, so I put myself in a tough position from from the get-go. But yeah, I mean to lose to something that that that was that wild, a Haldeman Torbion and Arkin, GMT, Arkin Alterum. Yeah, that's a tough look for sure. We like the watches, but uh man in a fantasy collection, it's it's tough to tough to see that above you on the final leaderboard. But you know, it's also I I want to thank everyone in the comments. There are a lot of collections that were put in the comments. Most of them were were better than mine, if we're being honest, uh, about it. So maybe one of them can take my place and and I'll just crowdsource my collection next time we're doing a fantasy draft because it's a really poor collection from your your current host of Hodinky Radio. Anything else that we forgot, guys, that we want to mention just watches that weren't touched on enough in this fantasy watch draft this edition of it before we before we move
Danny Milton on i think we we we hit it off mic right after i think we all were shocked that an omega didn't pop up anywhere. And I think that um I don't know if this was on mic before the show started, but we established a set of rules and we talked about Omega as a group as like the obvious reason we would need to establish some rules and then no one ended up picking one in their collection. That definitely shocked
Tony Traina me. Yeah. I would like to say the next time we do a draft, maybe what I would like to do is once a brand is picked, maybe entirely or specifically in one category at least, you can't pick that brand again. So we don't get like three Rolex sports watches or whatever it was that ended up on this list, just for a little bit more variety. And then you get to some of the other obvious choices, like the Speedmasters and the Sea Masters of the world. But hindsight's twenty-t,wenty of course. Uh it's obvious that that Omega probably could have and should have been on the list. Maybe yours truly should have chosen one and I would have not ended up in last place
Danny Milton . Can I take Umbridge again just to call all the conspiracies against Mark Koslerage in this draft, but I think it's cheating to pick a watch you actually own and may have also been wearing while we were drafting. I think the rules of a fantasy draft should definitely be watches you don't have. And look, he's wearing it right now. He's just put he's just like putting it, shoving it in my face. But I think Tony, you need to lay some ground rules. Really gotta really g
Tony Traina otta tighten up the ship here. That's true. I also chose a watch I own, nothing as fancy as the Pep CGMT. It was my budget pick, the Tissot PRX, but that one I picked a watch I own too. I just realized calling me out when everybody did it. I forgot. for coming on for just a few minutes to recap the fantasy watch draft. I'm going to take some time to introduce our guest for the rest of the show, Jonathan Fair, and enjoy the interview and I'll catch up with you guys again sometime soon. My guest today is John Fair, the founder of boutique brand Brew Watches. John founded Brew nine years ago after studying industrial design in college and short stints with other brands. Brew was inspired by John's days sitting in coffee shops, working and designing. Not just the coffee, but the culture of unwinding and relaxing too. But I'll be honest, that's not what first attracted me to Brew. It's the retro but totally modern vibe he's managed to capture in all of his designs, most recently in the metric. John and I talk about his journey as a designer and entrepreneur, the times he almost called it quits, and what's next for Brew. Along the way, we also chat about some of John's other passions. Cars, coffee, and bikes. John's a great designer and an even better guy. So let's get to the interview. John Farrer of Brew Watches, how are you doing today? Doing great. Thanks for having me, Tony. Uh my pleasure. Our last guest was also the CEO of a booming watch company. And I'm glad to have the CEO and the founder of Brew Watches on Hodiki Radio today. Our first question for you of course has to be the namesake of your company, which we'll get into is is inspired by by coffee and roasting and all of these things. What's the key to a perfect espresso, John
Jonathan Farrer ? Uh good question. And really it depends on who you ask, but overall it's uh a ratio of uh how much water to beans that you're you're having and also the type of coffee that you're choosing. So um when I'm in the city I'll grab a bag from La Colog
Tony Traina ne. Um but yeah, it's it's that simple. We're gonna get into the origin of your company in just a few minutes here, obviously, because that's why we're we're speaking today. But before we do that, I want to talk about your background before you even got into brew and brew watches. So I know you grew up in a family of jewelers. Can you just talk about what the environment was like Yeah, yeah. Um so
Jonathan Farrer my father was a jeweler his entire life. So when he graduated high school, 16 years old, he went into the workforce and he worked for some of these under the radar brands where he would be setting stones, uh, creating brand new jewelry just from sketch to lost wax process and then finally, you know, delivering a complete piece. Um, now he just retired about a month ago from Tiffany's. He was there for about 25 years. So yeah, he he's been in the jewelry business his entire life. And so why that was important for me was because you know I would see him at home and in the basement of our home, he had his workshop. And so he'd work on pieces, whether he was setting stones for private clients or whether he was just sizing a ring for somebody in the family. Um I was always exposed to that that process and the tools. If he was working on the polishing machines, if he had all his files laid out, he would explain to me um in such a casual manner. And and lo and behold, I was a sponge without realizing it. Um, so my entire childhood, I was exposed to that. And then his uh father was also a jeweler and designer for Cartier. And so we're talking early 1900s, like the whole family has this lineage where um it's funny, you always want your next generation to do better. And my father always said, there's tons of labor, no money, never get into this. But you know, his father was a jewelry designer for Cartier, and he worked in the city at the original Cartier on Fifth Avenue. And we have images, black and white images in the shop. It was a way, way different look back then. And so he taught my father everything he knew. And then my father taught me everything. And in the end, the little caveat was he said, never get into this industry. That's why I'm sending you to college for industrial design. And it was more to use my mind, not my hands. But here
Tony Traina we are. So you were told by your family, by your parents, by your grandparents, never go into watches. There's no money in watches, yet here you are. Can you talk about you s you mentioned you went to industrial design school? Talk about how you ended up in watches from there.
Jonathan Farrer Yeah, good question. So I went to school for industrial design and for those that don't know, it's more product design related. So whether you're designing a watch, a car, a piece of furniture, it's the idea of taking a concept and learning how to produce it, whether it's mass market or handcrafted, and then taking that to market. And so that's what I studied in school. And my internship, my junior year was at Mavato, Mavato Group in Paramis, New Jersey. And it was a six month uh internship where I was exposed to the watches like never before. And it's actually funny, and it's kind of true to my nature, where when I did sign up for this internship, they said, please, if you have experience, put your portfolio work of watch designs of your past. And I'm saying to myself, I'm a junior in college, I who has watch experience prior? Um so what I did was to get that internship all night long. I worked on 3D renderings, 2D drawings, and I really combined this portfolio of just watch designs enough to get my foot in the door. And they were impressed enough to give me that internship. And the reason um it was such an important part of my life was it gave me exposure to one first and foremost, doesn't matter where you are, good people. So the Mobato group had really intelligent professional great people so that environment I was happy um but they gave me exposure to how do they design their mood boards, how do they develop their new concepts for the future? How do they speak to manufacturers? Like these spec packs as they would call them. They would have all the drawings of all right, these are watches A, B, and C. Here's the different finishing, here's the different movements. And then you would create this tech pack, which is essentially the manual on how to create this watch design. And so for me, it was just forming an understanding of how do you form ingredients to
Tony Traina create this watch. Can I ask about Mavato just a little bit more just for a second just for a second? I'm curious because it was one of the first vintage brands I I really loved. Number one because it's affordable, but there's still a lot of the you'll see the DNA of of paddock and some of these other things, oftentimes even sharing suppliers. Uh, and you'll find they were sold at at Tiffany amongst other places, you know, in the middle of the century. But now they are often derided as a fashion brand, which makes for great business, or used to at least before the Apple Watch. Um so I'm curious from your perspective, someone who was on the inside of a brand like this, what was Mavato doing well and where do you think they could have uh could have improved or what what opportunities do you think they have to still improve and draw on their heritage and things like that
Jonathan Farrer ? I guess I can answer that now. If you had asked me back when I was in the younger days, I wouldn't have been able, you know. Uh what they did well was they were they were extremely organized with how they created their their designs, meaning they had a full library and everything had an evolution. This watch couldn't just be a new uh fast fashion object. It had to relate to something towards its predecessor. So the time that I joined the Mavato bold was something new and refreshing for the brand. And that was kind of when the brand was becoming more of a fashion brand, more or less. The Mavato Bold, I think they were selling retail four to six hundred dollars. You would see these in all big department stores. And they were finding ways to stay new and refreshing with the younger market as younger people were getting more uh excited to wear and purchase watches again. I think they did a great job of always having good line extensions. So you see a lot of these watch brands they'll have a couple good heavy hitters which are tributes to the past, but then it kind of ends. And so what I think Mavato did was they never had a dead end. It was just this infinite road of iterations that they could always run down. So good for business, good for customers that want to live in that ecosystem and buy, bye, buy. Um, but uh, you know, at the the end of day, you're talking about these vintage beautiful pieces of the past. You know, I I don't think while I was there at least that they were harping on those beautiful historic pieces that had that character, that had that history and you know that's not something that I was able to see firsthand there. But what I really enjoyed was this library, I'll go back to this library that they had. It was just like tons of magazines, uh cantone books, and it was all like their own sets. So these are all the watches that they've designed. And then they would have trays of uh watch prototypes. And it was just like, hey, John, like they would bring a nice, I don't call it a bucket, but like a full tray of prototypes, stuff that would never ever reach the market. And half of them worked, half of them were just dummy watches. And this was them testing different colors, materials, uh dial layouts. So it was just like whatever you see in the marketplace is just a small fragment of what's actually being tested on the inside. You know, gnomos would be a good example of, you know, tons of iterations that are being tested internally. Similar to that is what I experienced at Mavado
Tony Traina . Well, something you learn from, if I may say, skipping ahead to brew watches for just a second, you create something that is more than a fashion watch, right? Enthusiasts love it because of these retro designs and all of these things, uh, more than the typically derided fashion watch. I'm wondering something you learned from the fashion watch business that you took from brew watches, uh, that maybe you try to emulate. And then on the other side of the coin, something that you saw that you're like, I never want to do this whenever if and when I go and create my own brand. Yeah, that's a good question. Uh-hu,
Jonathan Farrer h and and I would say to my benefit, I learned a lot from the failures of those companies. Not saying that they did things wrong, but there was a lot of things that I did differently for the better. One of the number one things I realized as a foundation, uh designing a watch, I saw a lot of these brands where the idea was: if I make it, they will come. There was no um connection to who would wear this, why they would wear it, how often, building a community around it. It was more just this is the color of the year. This is the price point we want to reach. And if we sell good this season, great. And if it doesn't do well, we'll liquidate it. And for me, that seemed like such a short-lived and disposable concept and so when it came time for producing my own i always said all right produce in low quantity um give people a reason to join this this brand. I say join because it's when you you purchase a watch, it's not just one and done, especially these days, it's you make the purchase, you're part of the ecosystem, you're joining that journey. Um and so those are the things I wanted to develop, but I never saw that at these companies. And that's why I saw these desig
Tony Traina ns come and go. They're so fleeting. That's that totally makes sense. I know you said you stayed there for about a year and a half. I know your story a little bit, so I kind of know what happened next. I know you kind of worked at a smaller boutique brand and I've heard you do an interview before where you talked about how much that that experience meant to you and helped you figure out what you wanted to do with with brew and launching that independently but I've heard you tell this story about uh a year that you were working with that brand and you did some interesting things it sounds like to get into Basel and Basel World, which doesn't exist anymore, I suppose. So I'm I'm wondering if you could just kinda tell the story of working with this smaller boutique brand and the things and the lengths you went to to try to get into a big trade show like Basel World to make yourselves known. Yeah,
Jonathan Farrer I guess I could say this and it's not incriminating because it doesn't exist anymore. So we'll see. Uh just in terms of like getting into those uh spaces. Um what I learned about this arena was uh really bootstrapping to get your ideas across. So when I was visiting Basel World, again, I was working for that bespoke uh smaller independent watch brand, they they realized they don't have millions of dollars to put up a full installation, but their mission was let's get into the press lounge, meet with the press, get to see what the latest and greatest is, also get like a coffee and orange juice here and there. Me as a young person, right out of school, I still my bank account is zero. So I said, fly me out there, I'll do whatever it takes. It's it's a little crazy, but uh he's like, All right, well, we're not press, we can't get in there, and I was like, obviously not. Um, you're the boss, tell me what you would like. He's like, Well, if we had some press uh uh credibility here, this would be great. I was like, Okay, fine, I'll build you a website, I'll do a few blog posts and I'll give you like all the credentials to just essentially say, My name is John Smith, enter, and you're good to go. And I did this for him, but knowing in the background, while I'm visiting, I was so fortunate that I got to meet all the legends of the watch industry right there, like first hand. It was amaz
Tony Traina ing. So you kind of you made up a website. You built a website, built yourself press credentials, and then you managed to like essentially sneak yourselves into Basel World. When was this like a decade ago or something? Hypothetically. But yeah, it was uh so this was sure uh this was yeah just like about 11 years ago. We're excited that Hodinki Radio is back, and our return is thanks in part to this week's sponsor, Accutron, and its new DNA Casino Collection. Driven by the world's first electrostatic energy movement, the new Acutron DNA Casino Collection fuses vibrant colors with futuristic design. The four bold new colors, each limited to 100 pieces, are inspired by the bright lights of Las Vegas. The DNA is an update of Accutron's original icon, the Spacew V, theie watch known for its revolutionary tuning fork movement. The DNA updates the Acutron SpaceView for the modern era with a 45mm stainless steel case and integrated rubber strap. Since introducing the world's first fully electronic watch in 1960, Accutron has continued to push the boundaries of timekeeping. The Acutron DNA Casino Collection synthesizes bold colors, innovative technology, and a retro-futuristic design toed make a bold statement. Accutron, it's not a timepiece, it's a conversation piece. Check out the new DNA Casino collection on AccutronWatch.com or the new Citizen Flagship Store in New York. A big thanks to Accutron for its support now. And back to the show. Soon after that is when you launched Brew. So I want to get into that story now, and when you decided that you wanted to launch your own independent brand and you'd had it with these other uh these other larger companies
Jonathan Farrer . Yeah, yeah. Um again, my my bank account was zero. I was still living at home. But I knew I needed to express myself through the the design and making of a watch that I wasn't having that same I wasn't having that same uh fulfillment through these other companies. Um I was learning a lot and and I was seeing a lot of failure on their dime and and I was always being a soundboard as much as i could but rather than complain that hey this isn't working i can make it better um i just went to add it and i had previous suppliers through that network of uh companies i worked for prior. And I had reached out and I said, hey, uh, we're not gonna be working with said partner. It's just gonna be me and you and I'd like to create these prototypes. I said, yeah, sure. It was only just a few thousand dollars, which I was able to save up my book money. And so I put that towards the prototypes, created a Kickstarter, and with that Kickstarter, I think I raised about $38,000 in one month just through pre
Tony Traina -order sales. So the idea coming to life. Did you consider that a success at the time? Like I know the way Kickstarter works. You set a goal. You had you met your goal and did it exceed that goal? How did you feel about that launch
Jonathan Farrer ? Yeah, I that's a good question. For me, uh, having that many sales and that number for me was out of this world amazing. I thought that was the best thing ever. I keep saying I thought, because at that time and through my experience, for me, that was a success. It was uh it's been proven, uh, successful. People are interested. Even if they're just slightly interested, it gives me access to do more because now I have essentially a little bit of a a soundboard I can go after and say, hey, this was iteration A. We're going to do more. And and so yeah, it was great. It was just enough money to make uh a few hundred watches. And for me, that was all I wanted. Because again, I just wanted to express myself and create an object almost like a case study, just to see if I could make
Tony Traina it and do it on my own. Well, you said it there. You said you thought it was the best thing ever. I don't know if that hints at sort of what happened from there, uh maybe struggle struggles, bumps in the road, that type of thing. Uh is that kind of what you're hinting at
Jonathan Farrer ? Yeah, I mean uh that amount of money, it's good that I understood how to spread it across and make it count, but in reality, that that amount of money was was just absolutely nothing. Um you know, these days in a typical year I'm spending millions of dollars on product storage, you know, uh insurance supplies, you name it, for that amount of money to actually start a brand, it's it's unfathomable. Like typically people need loans, people um, you know, VCs, whatever it takes to get over that hump. It's almost unbelievable that I was able to get through that first stage with so little. But as I was mentioning before, is that bootstrapping mentality? You do whatever it would take to make this dream come to life. And I still didn't have the idea to create a business. I just wanted to ride this journey of make it, share it, and then continue. Like there was something so invigorating or refreshing about that. It was like the greatest opportunity. And especially knowing my age, like I was young, but I was mature enough to realize you don't get many opportunities like this as you get older. And so I really wanted to do it at that sta
Tony Traina ge. Before we get to the next sort of step in the company, can you talk just a little bit about the inspiration for the company? Obviously Brew Watches. I I alluded to coffee at the top. Can you just sort of talk about the inspiration and and how it manifested itself into the the first product and now a business that you've got. Yeah.
Jonathan Farrer So when I was designing watches, whether it's for myself or for others, I was always in the cafe. It was like my studio that I could have coffee, Wi-Fi all day and hang out. Going so often, I would make friends with the baristas and I talked to them. I said, hey, you know, I'm working on watches. And oh they peek over my shoulder. Oh, that's interesting. What's what's the new stuff today, John? And then I shot it back to them. I said, hey, thinking function story. I'm like, is there anything in particular that you would enjoy uh in seeing in a watch for the future? And I'm like, is there anything that you time on a daily basis that's important to you. He said, yeah, John, like every Shava Espresso, I have to time it on my machine. Whether I'm using my phone or like the digital counter on the machine, I have to count. And it's 25 to 35 seconds, but you know, just the thought. Play with it. Okay. Um, but I also realized that's just one category, one sliver of uh a demographic. Yeah, and I said to myself, if I could maybe hit that story, talk about coffee because I'm also understanding the visuals like I'm thinking as far out as all right this is on somebody's wrist what would that environment look like in photographs and videos and I'm the kind of person that walks down the street and says, like, what would the soundtrack of today be? And so I'm thinking, what would this movie look like where a person's wearing this watch that's for a barista, that's being shot and filmed. And so it's like very theatrical to me. But business wise, I'm thinking, well, not everybody cares about coffee. Not everybody wants to see all these nuances that are about shot timing. So we'll go with this retro effect. And that'll be nostalgic. That will tug at the heartstrings in a way that they can connect to. People they love to feel comfortable through that nostalgia. So choose the colors, choose the size, choose something that um speaks to people in a way that they can connect with. So these were kind of the different um factors that I was merging together
Tony Traina . Can you talk a little bit more about the I understand the coffee and the the cafe, the the inspiration behind it. I don't think that's what initially clicked for me and your brand. I mean, everyone likes coffee, right? Uh, but it's not something that initially clicked as something I I need or want to have, right? But it's those 70s designs and the retro design that you kind of just started hinting at. Uh I'm wondering if you could talk about that a little bit more because it's kind of so different from the typical round watches and all of these types of things that are that are supposedly the core of the market
Jonathan Farrer . No, that's a really good point. Um the actual because I've now this is gonna be almost 10 years of this, the actual stages that people perceive this watch and the brand or this. They see the watch. Let's just use a trade show as a case study. They see the watch. They're drawn to it by uh the silhouette first, the colors, and how it looks. So that's when they pick it up. So they're drawn to the retro uh styling as you mentioned and the part that really solidifies the product for them is they they turn around and say oh this is wonderful it's not like anything else around here I said yeah of course and it's at that moment that I will mention, well, these colors they have a specific meaning for time and shaves presso. It's the aha click moment where not necessarily did they pick it up or care for that story, but I think human beings like products more when there's a reason for the function in some manner rather than this is just randomly thrown at the object just for an aesthetic purpose. You know, how many times have we heard uh younger people or people in general say it's aesthetically pleasing like like I I can't take that. If if it had a little bit of reason that it's better
Tony Traina . Well listen, this may might say more about how uh how boring our generation is, but you know, as espresso timing is as interest or as useful to a lot of people as like a tachometer scale nowadays, right? Uh this is not necessarily true, but we'll get to cars a little in a in a little bit later. But you know, it's as sort of quote unquote useful as as anything, right? It's true, it's true. Um
Jonathan Farrer I think human beings like to justify the means of of how things come to be. Whether for for better or worse, people really like to justify why a dial a dial has loom on it, why you know why a car has a larger wing on it. Like just giving justification for them is is just always a a benefit. I've noticed. It's actually for future designs, it makes it more difficult because if I just do a simple three hander and there's no reason or for specific functions, I'm like, oh my gosh, am I making this less intelligent design? So are people not going to like it? Because I I feel like I'm not making a mean meaningful object if it just tells the time
Tony Traina . Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting. We'll talk a little bit more about the future of brew in a second. Uh I want to get back to after you said after the Kickstarter, you said about $38,000, which in the grand scheme of things you said is a is a drop in the bucket and it's tough to start a brand on $38,000. So I'm wondering what happened from there. Uh difficult times if you ever got close to sort of just throwing in the towel or anything like that after after that even uh initial launch that you first thought felt yeah, felt was successful
Jonathan Farrer . Oh man, tell me serious. Uh this is good because anybody could apply this towards any product or business that they're working in. Uh biggest mistake I made, I'm talking about iterations from a bottom. I didn't have a second iteration ready. I was so gun ho about I need to sell these, I need to share this and spread the word about the brand. Well, it's about a year and a half, two years in, and people stop buying the watches. I don't have many watches left. And then I realized, oh my gosh, I need to work on the next. And I didn't have a second runner up uh ready. And so when I did decide to have the next watch ready, we're almost three years in. So I've had one skew, essentially one design, three colors lasting for three years for a new brand. You're dead in the water. And so it was around year two and a half to three that I was in the red. No money, no sales, no new design. And and I realized that and I said to myself, okay, uh, what are we gonna do here? Cause the momentum was dead. And typically, when you look at brands through the year, there's a momentum curve. For every launch, it goes up and it comes down. And they'll launch like a strap and it gives a little momentum to the brand. Press release, whatever it is. And you always want to keep that momentum curve high through the year. I was just riding that zero line for like a solid year and a half. So then I launched a new watch. Um and And it wasn't successful. And here's the thing that I was learning. I designed a watch with a spec checklist that people were asking for. It wasn't what I wanted. And so then I lost my vision. Yeah, I'm not going to call out what design that was at the moment, but it was it was what I thought was the right thing to do. But it was an absolute flop, terrible, way too expensive. And then I also learned something. So here's the real failure. Time and money. Yes, I was losing that. But the biggest thing that happened was I started to get these new watches I was producing. And I noticed there was a lot of discrepancies, you know, dial debris, hands not installed correctly, all like things were not activating as they should on this watch. And I'm I'm scared now because you know obviously I'm tight on finances, but nothing's leaving it the door unless's perfect. And I would still go through each watch, set the time, make sure everything's good. And these watches weren't working correctly. And it was about like 90% of this production was just no good. And the manufacturer that was my great partner at the time knew the guy for like many, many years. He said, oh I'm sorry, John, there's nothing I can do. So now zero, I'm on zero funds. I'm on a watch design that's not selling good. Um, I am so negative in terms of just growth. I say to myself, what do I really need right now? I don't think it's money that I need. I need quality first and then we'll prioritize what's next. So I need a quality product, I need a new design, and then we'll roll out, you know, stage by stage. Uh I reached out to a colleague I I could say uh at Seiko and I say I use Seiko movements often. You guys are building these watches. Do you have any references for a manufacturing partner that you you know and trust that's been in the industry for a long time? And they set me up with like a really, really good top-quality manufacturer. Um, and I'm getting scared because I'm thinking prices will be high. Um, lo and behold, manufacturer makes excellent products. Quality it's great, communication's great. They are there so well for me. My product is made better than it ever has been before. So I'm I'm looking at the quality and the finishing, the um the actual construction installation, everything is like the best. And so I say, okay, well now I have a great product. Now I launch a new design, which was the retrograph, in one month at the time, it was like a hundred thousand in sales. So I'm like, all right, we're back to life. Now I have my finances back in check. My product is better than ever. I have good communication. And now I can really sail this ship uh on course to success. And from year was on to four, five, six, I started to see that growth curve slowly um increase. And what that means for me is like my audience was getting larger, sales were increasing, people were talking about it more. I might even hear, hey, John, I saw somebody wearing a brew wash on the street today. So all these small things were adding up. Um, but the the reason I say, you know, this is something you can apply to any business, what I learned was you always need to build redundancy into your model. Meaning if you're just planning on running course with, let's just say one supplier with one design because it's a home run hit. Um, you need to always have um redundancy. So additional suppliers ready. You need to have more designs than you would ever anticipate you would need, like Mavato, like Gnomos. Even if you're not launching, have them ready. And that's when I started to realize you have to think so far down the line. Um, but I didn't have that mentality because this was supposed to be like a one shot of an expression watch and then I was supposed to be out. Once it hit year four, that's when it became super real for me. And that's when I started solidifying all the systems, um, the product, the planning, the forecasting. And now it's year nine and a half and and everything is way, way more solidif
Tony Traina ied. So what year was it that you released the the retrograph that you said kind of helped turn things around? That must have been like 2018, I believe. Okay, gotcha. I'm curious because I know you were kind of a one-man band until somewhat recently, right? In the past couple of years. How it you kind of hinted at maybe a little bit there, but how did you divide business John from like product and design John? Like when did they talk to each other? And when did you decide like I just need to do the design I love uh and we'll worry about the business later? Like, how does that work itself out in your brain?
Jonathan Farrer That's such a good question. Not many people are able to make that split, right? It's like you're you're either a really good business person, accounting forecasting, or you're the design person. You're creative. You're fruitful with all these ideas. Um for me, uh it's still a one-man band. I have two people help me with uh emails because the day to day it's you wake up, you try not to look at your phone because you'll be scrolling for a very, very long time. You know the feeling. Um, it's overwhelming. Um, but it's still just me uh managing both business and product. And the way I actually split it up is I'll have separate days and separate times to work on the business. Everything from like forecasting, inventory, colors, parts. Like people don't even talk about spare parts these days. That's a huge part of the business. Well, if things go wrong and this is 10 years out, you don't even make the product anymore. You need to start building a library of this stuff, um, which is what I'm working on now. Um, so I'll split it up where I'm working on the business, the forecasting inventory, speaking with suppliers, that's one part of the day. It's that's separate. Then you have to be completely separate um while designing because if you're thinking too heavily about the business while designing, you're going to restrict yourself so much. Oh, I I can't do this uh hand applied index, all this superluminova applied. The cost is going to be too high, or is it going to even sell the watch more or less? So I put myself into just like this care less carefree enjoyable creative environment where I don't think about the business. Um and the number one rule that was taught, you know, it depends on what day it is that you're designing. Um, when designing watches, never look at watches because you will just regurgitate somebody else's idea. And so that always stood strong with me. And that's why I try to have my own tune when I, you know, uh design my own watches i'm looking at other objects everything but watches um what kind of stuff like where do you find inspiration from i'm curious yeah i mean the same way people look at wedding planning on Pinterest I'm there looking at retro radios and furniture um and art interior. Like if you look at some of these old Singer cars, they're pretty cool. They use like these screen webbings and they'll put it into air vents in the car. It doesn't even make sense, but it's just so beautiful. Um so yeah, I'll look at furniture, vehicles, uh objects like radios, um, different dials, but not of watches. And and the the mission is like, all right, how do I tell my story? But in the back of my head, I'm always like, all right, how do I engage with this idea in a way that hasn't been done in the watches? Because watches, it's like they have been done so much and they're just constantly mimicking each other with like a little tweak. So it's like, how do you really generate a new idea that speaks to your language that's an evolution of what you have. Um, it's not easy, but yeah, I always look
Tony Traina at objects on the internet. Well, maybe this is a good time to talk about the metric. Tell us about that watch, where the inspiration came from, and all that type of stuff
Jonathan Farrer . Yeah, so the metric was an evolution from its previous counterparts. The very first watch I made was like this square 43 millimeter rounded square case. The next one was like that retrograph square but rectangular. And one of the things looking back was these watch cases were too large, at least for me. And so not business savvy. I'm just saying like personal comfort, what would that look like? So I took those cases, I shrunk them down. Um, but this is when I started to develop more complex let's just say facets on the watch because my manufacturer now is excellent at finishing at uh creating these surfaces that really are are so dynamic it's not just a soft pebble anymore. I could do many different uh surface levels and have them all finished in different ways, the the brushing, the polishing, the bead blasting. And it was like gorgeous. And and so I started to refine the designs in a more tasteful way. In the past, I'm like, oh, it's gotta have all these applied markers, has to be so three dimensional, has to feel perceived quality. Like no, the most tasteful way to design a watch is to like the finishing, the printing. Don't don't go overboard. Less is more. Everything from the faceted index markers. Don't just have flat markers, have them on an angle so it catches the light and it's more uh beautiful in a day-to-day wear. And and so I would say the metric was kind of culmination of all my previous watches in its most mature state. And even the bracelet, looking at other watches, I'm saying, well, what's missing in the market? What hasn't been done in a long time? The tapered bracelets was something, you know, we're talking decades ago, but nobody does it anymore simply because there's more tooling for every link that uh cuts in a little shorter. So we're talking more more tooling, labor costs, of course. Um, but yeah, actually having to hand assemble in a specific order. Brands, especially the mass market brands, are not gonna want to touch that. At least it doesn't make sense for the price point for a lot of these mass market brands. Now come down to a micro brand. Why would a micro brand ever do a highly tapered bracelet, polish, finish, all these different edges? Um it just it wouldn't make sense cost-wise for most
Tony Traina . Well, we mentioned the metric. Uh it's got a seiko mechac movement as you hinted at. And then you did your first, was it your first automatic watch last year or your first mechanical, truly all mechanics. I run of automatics in like
Jonathan Farrer 2017. Ah okay. I didn't live. Um so this is the first time in uh many years actually since I I did it. And it
Tony Traina was a good reception. Well, it kind of hints at perhaps what's to come with Brew and with with you, but I'm curious sort of what's next for you and the brand and what sort of your goals are for the next year or few years. Yeah.
Jonathan Farrer Uh so there's a lot of exciting news coming out. And I can tell you because it's gonna start to slowly come out in the next weeks and months. I'm I'm sure you're familiar with Alton Brown. Sure. Food network, celebrity chef, is super talented. Talking watches veteran. Come on. Yeah, yeah. He he is a watch connoisseur. He knows his thing and he's got his very eclectic taste. Very specific. And so he was a brew customer for over the years, and recently we engaged in a conversation to collaborate. And he asked, you know, John, you're the watch professional, uh, what do you think about this? I said, Okay, uh, if we're gonna do this, we should do a limited run, keep it like a true limited edition. And so we produced 250 watches, and it is so unique. Uh, never been done. We used uh a new process to produce these dials that's never been done in the watch industry before. And I like the way that he also approached it because he's a smart guy and he said what would be fitting for your brand, but would also be fitting for my background to combine to make this a true collaboration. And so very respectable guy. And so over the course of almost two years, uh, we've been developing this watch and we're planning to launch it um late. Well, I guess we could say early May of this year. So this one I'm excited for. Um, and most importantly, it's the people, right? So we're working out watches all the time, it's the people that bring him to life. And he was so immersed in this project. And I'm seeing his eyes light up when he's actually getting delivered this product. Um, so that I'm excited for. Um, what else?
Tony Traina That's great. A good eats rewatches collab is something to look forward to, right? I mean, I grew I don't age. I grew up watching that show, you know
Jonathan Farrer ? Yeah, no, absolutely. Me too. Um, yeah, he he's been like uh kind of behind the the screen, somebody we always looked up to. Yeah. Uh in that environment. Yeah. So you had another one you wanted to tease? Uh well, more of an activation than I did recently. So I sent a metric watch into space. This was about like a month ago and what i like to do is like immerse my brand into things that i also enjoy yeah and the idea was i had this opportunity to send uh a watch into space. And I say, yeah, this is great. But these engineers are also brand savvy. And they said, hey, while we can send your watch into space, that's no problem. Let our engineers, you know, give them a challenge. They said, anything that you can think of, we work on robotics, we work on you know camera rigs anything that you want in like just above the atmosphere we can activate it so okay cool said can we send an espresso machine into space with the watch and have the chronograph time the shot being pulled in space. They pause. I thought there was a delay in the screen. Um they said, oh, okay, we can do this. Uh the cost is gonna be way higher, but like we can get this for you and it took so many launches where they finally got it correct they had to have even the the the viscosity of the liquid they had to adjust it even add a like a slight amount of alcohol so wouldn't freeze in space. So it was a whole fluid dynamics experiment. It was a electronics uh experiment so the watch could actually have the trigger to time it. And so yeah, the video is insane. You literally see the watch floating in space, the machine is floating in space, uh, both activated simultaneously. And so that's, you know, people say, why are you doing that? I said, well, personally, it's for fun and why not? It's, you know, if you're if you're not enjoying it, how do you expect others to? Um, but I think it's also cool just to showcase like, yeah, this product can like live in many crazy environments and still sustain itself. A true tool man. Is this a video? Have you posted this on your socials or anything yet? No, I'm hop
Tony Traina ing that maybe in a week or so I'll have like all the raw footage edited. All right. Well hopefully it'll be up uh by the time this episode is posted in the next week or two and maybe in the show notes. Uh you kind of hinted at it there, you know, things you're excited about besides watches. Uh and I I want to tie it into brew because one of the things I remember seeing, speaking of your social media actually is is last Christmas, Santa John was driving around in a Ferrari delivering brew watches. And I know you're into cars. So tell me the story. What's the story with the Ferrari? Yeah. I mean, uh, I love cars
Jonathan Farrer first and foremost. Um again, it's you know, the apple doesn't far fall far from the tree. My father, as much as I I always watched him with jewelry, he was also into cars, he built his own 65 fastback Mustang in the garage uh growing up so that exposure always had me interested and so you know it's the evolution over time it's like you you you have your your your cars you can acquire as you know you you become more successful in life and it was about a a yeargo I I got a Ferrari. I don't even call it that. I should call it the red car now. Um it's I don't want to be that guy. Sure. But I I love it so much more for sculptural beauty than the performance, which is crazy to say. And and I work around the clock, right? Like if it's Christmas Day, like if there's something I can do for work, like I would rather be doing that than unwrapping gifts for myself. It's more exciting, right? And so I was speaking to my partner. She's like, Yeah, like if you want to do this, that'll be cool. I think people will really love it. It's a last minute gift. How many people are are are waiting? So all right, I'm gonna do this. So I go online, I create the graphics, I say, all right, for any last minute gifts, I will personally uh deliver this within New York City um on Christmas Eve in a Santa suit. And I'm like, all right, let's see, boom, entered. And I see orders coming. I'm like, oh, okay, okay. And I'm like, okay, it's like over a dozen. I'm kind of calculating the route. I'm like, this is gonna be good. And so I make my way out. And I'll tell you, there were some so far in Brooklyn. It took almost like an hour and a half to get and reach really sweet people. Some people are like, Thank you. And you're the crying hug. Here's some chocolates for you. Made me happy. But then I even had a person uh take delivery. Um, they're like, Yeah, you can leave with the front door, man. I was like, Oh no, no, no, I'm I'm the guy that for I I'm the designer. They're like, Yeah, no, no, you can leave with the front door. I was like, Oh no, she thought I was like an Uber delivery driver. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, some people had a great time. Some people, you know, it was
Tony Traina just another delivery. I can't imagine a Ferrari was your first your first car. I imagine this is a long journey for you over the past however many years? I have a fort
Jonathan Farrer unate life. My very first car, uh, I was 16 years old. My parents, I remember till this day, they gave me an envelope to give to the school. It had fifty dollars in cash and said, Give us to the front office. And I was you know, young kid. I was like, Why are we giving money to the school? They don't give us anything. No, no, Jonathan, just give us to the front office. And uh months later, I get a call on my phone. Hey, Jonathan, uh, we're at the football game. They just announced your name. You won that Mustang. I was like, what are you talking about? That $50 my parents gave me to give to the school was for raffle tickets for a car that was being auctioned off or raffled off. And so my parents won the car in my name. And so my first car was this 2015 Red Mustang GT. I didn't even have a driver's license. I rode my bicycle to sit in the car. And I thought people were kidding. It was true,
Tony Traina though. Oh, that's hilarious. So from a red Mustang to the red car as you put it now, the Ferrari, that's great. Yeah. I know you it's not just cars, too. I you used to ride ride
Jonathan Farrer Yeah, yeah. Uh there's there's no greater feeling. Like you're in a car, it's great, but you're in a you're in a capsule. Um for me it was always more exhilarating being on a bike. So you're exposed for better or worse. Um, but I always enjoyed that way, way much more than a car. Ye
Tony Traina ah. Uh I've gotta ask, this is maybe kind of where we're gonna end it because uh for those that are watching on the YouTube, we can see the big space behind you, boxes, shipments going in, shipments coming out, or going in, coming out. Uh can you just sort of talk about where you're at now and how it sort of even symbolizes the growth of brew that we've been talking about for the past, you know, forty five minutes or however long. Yeah, yeah. Um
Jonathan Farrer so everything is like still true to its roots. I still go through every watch one by one, um, prepare them from folding boxes to QCing watches, uh, servicing it and more. Um it's on a i would say a nice constant growth curve but i don't want to grow too fast and the reason being um learning from others mistakes if you go too fast um there's a lot of mistakes not just internally, but could be externally seen by customers. And so these days, um, focusing more on the systems. So um spare parts catalogs, servicing techniques, so we can handle servicing as you know, the business grows, servicing should be just as good. And so these days it's just building these systems to make sure that the business is just rock solid through and through. Um, but still, you know, setting time where I can design new watches. And one like little caveat or nod to that is like um I think one of the best things about brew is just the color, the the exciting fun of the watches, but it's still in a professional manner. I'm leaning heavy, heavy, heavy into the color later this year. So having just
Tony Traina as much fun with it in the most refined state. Oh man, just enough tease to peep the keep the people coming back to brew. Uh uh we'd love to hear it i think we'll leave the conversation there for the day i've really enjoyed having you on hearing about the history of you the history of brew and a little bit of a tease of what's in store for for the next few years for brew so so thanks again to john fair of of Bwre Wchesat for joining us, and we'll be back again next week for another episode of Hodinky Radio. Awesome. Thank you, Tony.