Talking Tastes, Trends, And Elton John's Watch Collection¶
Published on Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:55:00 +0000
Ben Clymer and Malaika Crawford join to discuss how our tastes have changed before picking our surprise favorites from Sir Elton's eclectic collection.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, hosts Tony Traina, Ben Clymer, and Malaika Crawford discuss Sir Elton John's watch collection currently at auction at Christie's, using it as a lens to examine broader trends in watch collecting. The collection features nearly 30 watches including Cartier Crashes, unique Piagets, gem-set pieces from JLC and Lange, and multiple Frank Muellers, reflecting both Elton's flamboyant personal style and the current state of watch collecting in 2024.
Ben Clymer provides historical context, describing how the watch world has transformed since 2008 when complications and opulence dominated, and steel vintage watches were "for dorks." He points to several inflection points including the 2013-2014 period, the Paul Newman Daytona sale in 2017, and particularly the first Talking Watches episode with John Mayer as moments that shifted interest toward steel sports watches and vintage pieces. The panel discusses how COVID accelerated mainstream interest in watches, with celebrities like Taylor Swift and Rihanna wearing watches as fashion statements, though they debate whether current trends toward smaller watches, dress pieces, and gem-set timepieces represent genuine shifts or contrarian positioning.
The conversation touches on how tastes have evolved from the era when steel complicated watches were the ultimate flex to today's embrace of precious metals, colorful dials, and brands like Cartier and Piaget. Ben controversially declares the Cartier Crash "done" while defending the Tank as a timeless classic. The episode concludes with collecting advice for a listener seeking their first dress watch with a $15,000 budget, with the panel recommending vintage or neo-vintage Lange & Söhne pieces as offering exceptional value and quality. Throughout, they emphasize how the watch market has matured, with speculation flushed out but genuine enthusiasm broader than ever across all segments of collecting.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Tony Traina | This episode of Hodinki Radio is brought to you by Accutron in the new DNA Casino collection. With 100 pieces made in four vibrant colors, the Accutron DNA Casino perfectly fuses futuristic watchmaking and bold design. Stay tuned later in the show for more on the brand's new collection or visit AccutronWatch.com for all the details. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Hodinky Radio. Today I've got Melica Crawford and Benjamin Klymer here with me. We're going to be looking at one major celebrities watch collection, but we're going to use it to zoom out and talk more broadly about trends, tastes, how they change over time, and how they're changing right now. The celebrity is the one and only Sir Elton John. Nearly a thousand pieces of his estate are at auction at Christie's this month, including more than 30 watches. Meleika and I went to preview these watches just a couple of weeks ago and, I think we both had a ton of fun. The collection is perfectly Elton, super loud, but also represents a lot of classic watchmaking. It also seems to somehow represent perfectly where watch collecting's at in 2024. I couldn't help but feel as if this collection had appeared, say, five years ago, watch nerds might not have cared as much. So it got me thinking about how trends and tastes change and how they're changing. Of course, our Ben our own Ben Climber has been on the front lines observing, and dare I say, even shaping some of these trends over the past 15 years. So he's going to be here to join Malaika and I to talk about Elton John's watch collection and everything else. First up, Ben, how are you doing today? I'm good, Tony. How are you doing? Well, not as good as you. I mean, you you know, I've been following along on on your Instagram, of course. You were in Aspen and Paris over the past less than seven days, really, doing some doing some great traveling for us. It it was |
| Ben Clymer | uh it was a busy week. It was a glamorous week, you could say. At least I'm I the goal is to make it feel that way on Instagram. It wasn't glamorous, but I made it feel glamorous. At least that's that's what I'm told |
| Tony Traina | . Uh Ben's doing it for the gram. Listen, can you tell us about the Louis Vuitton watch prize a little bit? So for those who may have not seen on the site, Raul Paj is the independent watchmaker, won the first Louis Vuitton watch prize, which I think is going to be awarded every other year. So can you just tell us a little bit about your experience with with that watch at the event and whatever else you might want to cut touch on |
| Ben Clymer | ? Yeah, sure. And I I think, you know, I mean I'll keep this pretty short because I know we have a lot to get through here, but I think what what LV and Jean Arnaud in particular is is doing is genuinely admirable in the sense that like they have, you know, the look, they're the largest company in Europe, wealthiest family in the world. I mean the resources times basically infinite. And the fact that the Jean, who is is a true, and I know him, a a true diehard horology fanatic, in in like the nth degree. And he did talk and watches with us, so you can go back and look at his collection. It includes some very kind of deep cut 3970s and Philippe Dufour's and really special things. He really wanted to go out and and figure out a way to support independent watchmaking in the truest sense. And so what he did was basically, it's it's almost like a scholarship in in many ways, where you get a grant of around 250,000 euros, maybe 250,000 Swiss, but either way, and you get kind of tutelage by Louis Vuitton for for the two years that that the that the winner is is kind of the you know kind of in effect. And basically you get tutelage by LV's Department of Marketing and Heritage and all that, but you also get tutelage under uh Le Fabrique Touton, uh, who, you know, which includes two amazing, really more than two, but two kind of like leading watchmakers. And so the, you know, the the the nominees were, I would say relatively well known. I mean, you had uh Simone Brett, who, you know, is almost famous at this point, even though I think he's delivered 12 watches. Um, you had Andrea Streller, who's been around forever, kind of more behind the scenes. You guys might not know him, but he's been behind some of, you know, kind of the most fantastic, mostly perpetual calendars of the past uh, I don't know, 10 years. He did the Moser perpetual if you're familiar with that, won a GPHP award. Um we had Peter Remember that with an amazing split second chronograph, which was incredible, already sold out. And then we had another gentleman who made mechanical B, which was really neat. Uh he was definitely a fan favorite because he made mechanical B and in the year 2024. But the winner was Raul Paj. And you know, the awards were held at the Louis Vuitton Foundation in Paris, which is you know a very well-known art uh museum in in Paris. It was attended by the likes of me, uh my darling wife Kara Barrett. We had uh other luminaries such as Mike Tay, uh Oral Montanari, or John Goldberger, Rat Chepracepi, we had SJX, we had Way Co, we had uh Karim from the GPHG, kind of a who's who of the watchmaking world attended this thing. And not only did all of us watchners attend, but so did a guy by the name of Bernard Arnault, uh, who is, I think, right now the wealthiest man on earth and certainly one of the most powerful. So, you know, just to be in the presence of somebody like Bernard Arnault for a watchmaker like Raul Paj, who I think you know makes less than a handful of watches per year, is remarkable to then get up on stage and be presented with this highly prestigious award in front of him. Photography next to Jean Arnaud and the Mike Tays of the World, and then subsequent coverage in Le Figueroa and Le Temp and like all these amazing high-profile newspapers and magazines around France and Switzerland is life-changing. And I'll say I've met Raul, I've I've been to his workshop. He's incredible. His watch has a detent escapement. He basically created his own detented statement. You know, this is not FB Jorn. This is not even Philippe Dufour. This is real nerd independent watch making the truest sense. He makes everything himself, he does it all the old-fashioned way. And his his acceptance speech was and I mean this sincerely was was really moving. I don't think there was a dry eye in the place. You could he he was he was teary-eyed. He thanked his wife and said something to the tune of, I'll love you more than you'll ever know. And I wouldn't be here without you. And it was so sincere. And this award, I think, means so much to him. It was really quite, quite amazing. Uh, and so, you know, you can kind of cast any aspersions you want about why LV might be interested in independent watchmaking. But I think it's very clear that the the the win was a was a really meaningful moment for for for Raul and and his wife |
| Tony Traina | . Ben two quick follow-ups. First of all, John McCall is the mechanical B guy. I don't want his name to get unnoticed. Uh apologies for that. And then uh just giving you crap, of course. Uh did you get a wrist check on the one of the wealthiest guys in the world, one Bernard Arno that you want to show you? I did not |
| Ben Clymer | . I did not that night. I I have in the past. Uh so the look, the thing is is everyone wants to know if he wears that Tiffany Dial 5740 Patek, the one that I think Jean, I think Jean, maybe in Frederick posted on Instagram, which is a one-of-one unique watch. Uh Tiffany signed Tiffany Blue Perpetual, like the like the you know the million dollar uh 5711. He doesn't wear that watch. Uh he often wears a tag hoyer, um, which is obviously, you know, kind of probably the best well-known of all of the LBMH uh watch brands. But I did not check what he was wearing that night. Um, but I would imagine it was something pretty good |
| Tony Traina | . I would imagine so. And of course, you know, sort of a delayed intro here, but we've got Melica Crawford who has been running around town all day just to be able to join us. Melica, how are you doing today |
| Malaika Crawford | ? I'm still recovering from my B and H photo trip, but I'll be fine. I'm good. How are |
| Tony Traina | you, Tony? Oh, we appreciate you joining us and making such a such a gargantuan effort to be able to join today's I just wanted the audience to know the sacrifices you made. So, you know, listen, we're not going to do risk checks. I'm sort of on a crusade to ban wrests from from all watch podcasts, but we're going to do our own fun spin on it, which is something cool on your desk. I'm really excited to see what both of you have. Uh, I'm gonna start actually, it's over my shoulder here. I'll grab it in a second, but it's this uh Cartier Crash advertising, not advertisement drawing. I I should say'll grab it right now. Sorry this makes poor audio. But this is a guy who you guys may have seen on Instagram before uh Bad Art Nice Watch. Ryan is his name. He does these cool little well, it's all in the title, really, but he sent me a cardier crash when he first started doing this uh a couple of years ago. Yeah, just a fun little thing. Uh I've seen him do all kinds of watches, but bad art, nice watch on Instagram is the follow. Uh Melica, something cool on your desk? Well I'm not at my desk, Tony |
| Malaika Crawford | . It can be a risk check, Melica. It can be Okay. Just to follow up on your little picture, um I also had bad art nice watch make me no well I don't know if he made it for me but he when it was uh when the queen passed like 2022 he drew me the protec that she had the ellipse with the diamonds and the pearls, which I thought was quite sweet. That's quite sentimental to me. I was gonna show you my estate of Jaclyn Kennedy Sotheby's um auction catalogue because there were three watches in there, two of them are Cartier, one's Piaget. I checked the um what they went for and the Piaget actually sold for significantly more than the Cartier's, which I thought was like an interesting little little scoop there. It was like the limelight that she wore and then these two little quartiers, they weren't tanks, they were square, like on a mesh bracelet. There was no reference or anything. When was the sale? 1996. I |
| Tony Traina | see. I don't know Piaget acquired it then, but they acquired it, they acquired it at some point, right? I think it |
| Malaika Crawford | 's in their sort of hair. I think they did too. I feel like that watch is an interesting one 'cause uh I don't think it gets that much love. It does not. I didn't even know it existed, honestly. Oh really? Well you do now. Okay. |
| Tony Traina | Now I do. I learned something new today. Uh yes. Well, the the one everyone's waiting for, Ben, something cool on or near your desk. Oh boy. Where where to begin, Tony |
| Ben Clymer | ? Um This could be the next 40 minutes of the show, yeah. Yeah, no, I have a lot of cool stuff on my desk because I'm at in my own office instead of the Hodinki office today. Um let's see. I've got two things that I can show you. One is here. This is a yellow sweater. Uh this is I guess what we call the yellow sweater. This is the yellow sweater that I wore in talking watches with Jean-Claude Beaver. Genuinely, this is it. I kept it in a cabinet in the Hodinki office for years and I moved that the basically that cabinet out in the past two weeks to my home office up here and and here it is. So there's the yellow sweater from talking watches with Jean-Claude Beaver. And then with that I have something that is also yellow. Uh and this is fitting because there was an announcement by Monaco Legends that John Goldberger is selling the split second Rolex that he opened with a cheese knife on our talking watches. And this is that cheese knife. So this is the John Goldberger cheese knife, uh the actual one. This is just something I have on my desk. Truly two pieces |
| Tony Traina | of talking watches lore. Truly. Um yeah. Yeah. Any plans to do anything with either of them? I mean auction them off for charity. I'm kind of teeing you up here and I I don't know you have any plans for them, but are they? I mean look the the the sweater it I don't I don't think anybody would buy it. |
| Ben Clymer | Someone would buy the cheese knife. No one's gonna look the the the this the sweater I might start wearing again, honestly. I was saying do you before when I discovered that it was here. I might just like bring it back into the rotation. Uh but the cheese knife, look, I think at some point we'll probably do some sort of charity auction, but we're not we're not there yet. Um but here it is. And it's always like this funny, like this has kind of floated around the Hooding Gi office since that video. Um and here it is in a in a watchbox. So this is fun to have here |
| Tony Traina | . As I said, we're gonna talk about, you know, we're gonna look back at at trends and how they change and and all of these types of things. And Ben, that's kind of why I wanted to have you on because you know, back in 2022, we did this little Slack auction preview before the December auctions, I wanna say, and you told us this little story about uh one of the first sort of watch intros or previews you did. It was for the JLC, the reverso gyro Torbion, back in like two thousand and eight. And you said something to the effect of complications were everything in two thousand and eight, sincerely. Vintage, steel, et cetera, was for dorks like me. So I wonder if you can just take us in the way back machine and tell us what the luxury watch world looked like in two thousand and eight. Well, it was sad, man. It was dark times back then |
| Ben Clymer | . It it it really was. Uh first of all, I remember going to that event so clearly because somebody invited me. Uh and I they were like, bring a friend. So I brought my friend Jeff, who, you know, is still my friend, but has nothing to do with Odinky. And he's and we were like, what do we wear? And we were like i think we should wear suits and ties because it was on like it was at a townhouse on the upper east side and so we both wore suits and ties mine from joseph a banks legitimately uh and we went there and we're just like, what is this this? And it was like, you know, like probably $20 million plus townhouse on the upper east side, right off the fifth, and champagne everywhere, beautiful people and blah, blah blah. And they had rooms where they would show us the complications within the gyro turbion. And it was so opulent. And I mean like opulent with a capital O, in a way that frankly nothing compares to today. And things have like toned way down since then in the entire watch industry. And back then, like grand complications were what brands touted the most. You know, like I think like PJ's biggest launch is probably the polo, right? The one that came out last week for for like 73,000 bucks. Like that's their big narrative for this year. PG back then would be about a probably an ultra-stum minute repeater perpetual calendar. You know, JLC, instead of talking about reversos, they would talk about the gyro turbine, gyro turbion eight, whatever. And we're talking about like, hey, they would do like, you know, with the gyro turbine would come like a four foot-high trunk where you could see like every facet of the watch being made, and you could see like several different loop uh you know um options, etc. It was so overtly um opulent and just not catering towards, I think, people like us and by us, I mean all three of us here. Um it was really, you know, to be to be frank, it wasn't really catering in the US towards domestic buyers. It was catering towards foreign buyers. And back back then Chinese buyers were were a huge, huge force in in the American watch buying world. And back then that they wouldn't care where I mean now if you're if you walk into Wempey or Tiffany or any Pat Tech store and you are not a domestic citizen or you do not have a domestic address, you cannot, as far as I know, buy a watch from from those retailers. Back then, they would take what they can get. They would sell anything to anyone at any price. Like if you wanted to drive a turbine, you could get a 35% of the dollar. Like they would say, just fucking take it, you know? Um, it was a really different world. And I think that, if I may say, is why Hodiki worked is because there was this whole gang of people that like this just didn't connect with at all. And I was one of them. And I was just like, look, like going to a fancy party with champagne is really fun because I'd never done it before and I had a great time at that party and the watch was really neat. But like I couldn't come close to affording it back then. I still couldn't know. But like that watch just didn't feel to me even if I could afford it. Like I wanted to talk about reversos. I wanted to talk about the old master uh control chronographs. I wanted to talk about the Polaris and the deep sea alarms, if we're talking about Jaeger. And those just didn't have a place in the world. And if they did, they weren't on the forefront of anything. So you might remember that the that that Jaeger, JLC did a Polaris around that time and it went nowhere. And th those watches, the steel watch and the and the platinum watch, the only person that I know that bought one of those watches knew is John Mayer, because he was doing it back then. But they sat at retail for years. And I mean like four years to the tune of like when yeager reopened their boutique i think in 2013 i went to it they still had a platinum and a steel one polaris for sale in the boutique we're talking five plus years after that watch came out. Like now that's that would be just unheard of. They wouldn't last five hours today, five days today. Um, so you're just talking about a really different world of what luxury watches and high-end watches was. There were not Instagrammers, there were not TikTokers, there were not really many platforms like Odinky. Um, you know, there was the time zone guys, there were the purist guys, there was Ariel over to Blog to Watch. Um, you know, there was Fratello in the Netherlands, but you know, it like we all had our own little thing and we were all representing kind of different kind of mindsets. And Hodinki's was definitely kind of the most generalist and I I hope the friendliest. Um, but yeah, really different times and vintage wasn't a thing at all. I mean, that tech was, but again, it was like the Nautilus was the cheapest watch in the catalog and you can get it at at discount. I have I have friends used to work at at Tiffany, I'm sorry, at Patek, and her husband wanted a watch and the only watch that her her boss, the president, would allow her to buy for her for her husband was a 57 eleven in steel, truly, and he still wears the watch. Um, you know, it's just it was just a different time. And you know, I wouldn't say a simpler time. Things are way better now, to be clear, way bigger now. Um, but it is it is fun to kind of think back of what watches were so long ago. Can we talk about the size of that dry rotator? Y |
| Malaika Crawford | es. Probably 46 millimeters. I mean minimum 44. I don't know off the top of my head, but probably 46. That's why I brought it up in that Slack chat because I thought it was the one of the scariest things I'd ever seen |
| Ben Clymer | . It it just it it's it just was. I mean if you look at I mean even like even PatTech to agree, but like you know, Langa, PatTech, AP, JLC, like we're talking like basically the four best, four of the best brands uh in the world. Uh Tony's told me to move my mic back a touch. Sorry guys. I just I'm just so excited to get you know to get up in here with you. Um that's just what people wanted. Like it was about like it was really about showing off, honestly. Like that's what watchmaking was. It was not cool at all. It was in fact like kind of the opposite of cool. Uh and I was like, wow, this kind of sucks, but like I like I like the watches so much that like I'm gonna hang around and keep writing about |
| Tony Traina | . Can you point to maybe it was just a gradual thing and there's no answer to this, but can you point to any specific inflection point? I've got a few sort of I'll make this multiple choice for you in a in a way because I've heard a few few ideas over the years. I remember when I did a I did a collector's guide on the 5711 when that went out of production, whatever that was a year or two ago. And Reardon pointed to John Reardon of Collectibility pointed to 20213, 014 as around the time when secondary market prices on the Nautilus specifically started to um exceed that those of the the retail prices. Um and then beyond that, obviously everyone points to the the Paul Newman sale in 2017 as a major inflection point. And then obviously COVID is kind of the the latest one. But I'm wondering from from your chair, Ben, if if if any of those ring true to you |
| Ben Clymer | . The 2013 I wouldn't necessarily agree with. And and the reason I say that is I bought a 5711 Tiffany signed at Tiffany for for below retail in 2015. So you know it it it was probably a little bit later for than that. Look I I I can only speak from my experience and the the turning point that I've heard of countless times and and I am seldom this self serving is the the first episode of talking watchers with John Mayer. That was a that was I think a a big turning point, but I I think there are many. And I think, you know, I think John is definitely right in that the the Paul Newman sale put watches on the tips of everybody tongues in the financial world. Because you know, back then you were looking at art, you know, contemporary art, uh, design, wine, classic cars, whatever. As as like the investment grade alternative assets. And then all of a sudden you had a steel Rolex sell for 18 million dollars. That was pretty crazy. Before that, predating that, the the Henry Grave super complication selling for for crazy money was also kind of a a turning point |
| Tony Traina | . Yep. I think that was in twenty the second time it sold in in twenty fourteen you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well I'm curious you you brought up the the John Mayer um video, which I'm sure others would point to as well that brought a ton of people, you know, myself included, like into the hobby in a new way. There were a lot of steel watches in that in that episode, right? There were there was uh Steel Daytonas, uh, the GMT, there was a Batman, which was like new at the time, uh, which is crazy to think of now. But, you know, one of the quotes that's most taken or most quoted from that video is uh, you know, the 5970 and the 3970 from paddock as good as it may ever get. And it's interesting to me because that was like uh I want to say the undercurrent trend at the time. You know, the steel watches started to grab the headlines, but there's this undercurrent of of vintage or of complicated watches. And I'm wondering um if that's something you felt as well. Because by the time you get to the second one, the second talking watches, we're talking about precious metals and gem set things |
| Ben Clymer | and all of those those types of things as well. Yeah. I mean the the other thing, actually by by pure coincidence I'm wearing the watch I wore and not talking watches, which is my 3940 today. Um but what what's interesting is steel back then was holy grail material for complicated watches. So I mean, like when when when we did our Vash Ron, the corn de Bash, like you have no idea how hard I pushed to get that watch made in steel. It just didn't. Hat tech certainly didn't. So the idea of steel uh for complicated watches was the signifier. If if you thought steel was cool, that means you were part of the gang. And by gang, I mean like my gang, like the hodinky gang, like the nerd gang, you know? Otherwise, if you thought gold was cool, you're like, oh, like so tacky. Like why would you want a gold watch? Now I only wear gold watches for the record. Um but back then it was like steel was what like steel was the flex. Um and I think that has changed markedly. I mean, like I think you know, okay, like steel watches are still very hot, but you know the, things that you see on Instagram, the things that you see on TikTok are really more like gem set precious metal things because those watches ended up being so cheap as our little world started to take off. As like the vintage watch world and like the hoodiki world started to take off, people just completely overlook the gem set uh precious metal watches |
| Tony Traina | . Melika, I'm wondering from your perspective, you know, I think we came into the watch world full-time around the same time a few years ago, and you came from a fashion background before that. So we're more observing it from a from a different mindset. And I'm wondering what what trends you were observing sort of uh throughout the time period that Ben and I have just been talking about and have you noticed any sort of like change up in what was cool, what was popular, what was fashionable, what people were talking about |
| Malaika Crawford | . I like to look at this as the there's sort of two sides to this. There's the enthusiast community and then there's everybody else. And they really have nothing to do with each other. But I am starting to see a lot of well on my Instagram feed, I don't know how yours looks, but there are people kind of on the fring on the fringes, like in fashion, in art, in design, who are definitely paying more attention to watches and they'll be reacting to things that are, as you said, gem set or maybe like different shaped cartiers or piagets, smaller watches notably. They're sort of not really interested in the quote unquote like watchy watches. It's definitely coming at things from a almost like jewellery perspective. And that goes for men, women, whatever. Um, I did think it was really interesting. Last night there was this, it's New York Fashion Week, and there was a fashion show last night um for this brand called Loire and I I mean I've seen a lot of kind of we saw Taylor Swift wearing a watch. I'm I won't say anything bad about Taylor Swift because I I know know I know I'm gonna be absolute yeah gonna keep the lip lips sealed um that we've seen Taylor we've seen Ree and then last night at this very like sort of in in the the deep cut of the fashion world, this brand Loire had looks walking out with watches like sort of worn as livery collars. Like they were sort of attached to each other. No, say, hang on. Does this mean that watches are cool, or does this mean that we're going to get so past the watch thing being in the zeitgeist that it's going to be like deeply uncool? And that we'll just sort of go back to where we started. So I feel like watches are almost like they're just becoming really mainstream in that way. But I do think the trend, the trends, I mean we, see it on TikTok, we see it on Instagram. People just want Cartier and Piaget and this, you know, Tony, you're like Mr. Polo now. Um I I just feel like we've moved away from this, you know, royal |
| Tony Traina | Oh man, thank you for that. Uh you know, everyone thinks I have some sort of deep fascination with the polo. Uh and you know, really I don't it's not even like it's it's far from my favorite Piaget. I love their stone dials and some of this other stuff. The polo is is not my vibe, uh, for for those who don't know me. You've made yourself Mr. Polo. Yeah, I I would say you're definitely Mr. Polo. Oh, listen, I could have bought, you know, a dozen polos in the past uh let's say month or so if I wanted to. So um I totally missed the opportunity. Yeah, a lot more now, I'll tell you that much. Exactly. Um, but you know, it's kind of concerning in a way when everyone's off everyone left and right is offering you a polo. It's like, well, I don't I don't think I need one of these. Um but listen, I'm I'm sorry to anyone who feels personally attacked by the the two Piaget articles I've written in the past year. Um, but it's a great, it's a great brand that's been sort of overlooked over the past few. It is. There was |
| Ben Clymer | a guy that used to work for us named Louis Westphalen, who actually, uh then went to work for George at Brightling and now works for Jean at uh Daniel Roth and Gerald Genta. He was so interested in PAJ. I'm talking 2014, 15, but early predates that, like that's when he worked for us. He would uh he used to bring a loop for us uh at from time to time and helped us launch vintage watches back in the day. He cared so much about vintage page so early, that guy deserves some credit in the in the global Piaget world because that guy was really early to that. You know, there's a lot of people out here claiming to be the Piaget guy. So let's just let's just give it to our friend Louis. I can tell you who it's not. You know who it's not, everybody? Phil Toledano. It's not Phil Toledano. I can promise you that. |
| Tony Traina | Just an absolute stray throw. Um no, you know, Louis and I have have talked about a number of brands over the years. Piaget is one, uh, Chopard is another who he was quite early on. There's a couple of articles he he wrote in the twenty fifteen, sixteen era that that I referenced when I I did articles in the past couple of years on on Chopard and some other stuff. But uh you know he's got quite sophisticated uh French Parisian tas |
| Malaika Crawford | te I suppose. So yeah knock him for that. Can I just ask you, Tony? Sure. Because I'm really I'm dying to know. Do you think that people are sort of becoming more and more interested in these types of watches that in in within the enthusiast community. Is this just sort of like contrarian politics |
| Tony Traina | ? Uh well listen, don't don't bring your politics into my watches. But sure. I mean Ben kind of mentioned the cum I guess the commercial side of it even, like you you look around one day and you realize you probably don't need to be spending thirty thousand dollars or whatever it is for a four-digit submariner, and you say, Well, I could buy a cardiac crash for the same price, which is you know how much they cost in 2018 when it's a a sort of legitimate cardier icon. And then it takes five years, six years, however long it's been, but the the sort of pricing reality flips almost and now um it cost almost twenty thousand dollars to buy a vintage tank normal. Uh and I think at some point people will look up and say, wait, like I should be buying a four digit sub for this amount of money uh or a four digit GMT master or whatever it is. So I think there is a uh uh just like a commercial reality to to what people can afford with their budget and looking around at sort of what's legitimately value at at whatever price they have. But yeah, some of its contrarian and people I mean, fashion in general and style in general is always the pip push and the pull between um wanting to fit in but also wanting to stand out. And these things go back and forth, right? And I think we're kind of we we've swung all the way on one side of the pendulum almost where we're talking about small watches, every sort of I'm writing our our article about trends that will happen in 2024 or something like that. And every single article I've read about watch trends in 2024 from even mainstream publications, GQ and Rob Report and all these types of things have mentioned small watches, uh, even menswear publications, right? So we've we've swung so far in that direction that it's it's bound to swing back in |
| Ben Clymer | the other direction. Time is but a a flat circle, right? I mean, like if if you go back, do you remember when Mad Men was really big? Like what year was that? Anybody know? Uh yeah, uh it was a while ago. Yeah. Right. And when Mad Men was big, I would say small watches are big because of Mad Men, blah blah blah. Like Omega C Master 120s and Reversos, which Don Draper wore. Like this like nothing is is new here. You know, I mean though those I mean we're talking about like kind of more vintage dress watches back then as opposed to like 90s and and contemporary dress watches. Um but I mean it it is so funny how people kind of think they're they're discovering stuff and in in some ways there are people discovering stuff for sure, but you know, they're like all like well uh a skeleton AP from the 60s. I'm gonna pick on my friend Phil a little bit more. You know, these watches are well known to be exceptionally high quality watches. And like they were more expensive than many complicated watches in in in period. So you know, him coming in and saying, or somebody coming in and saying, like, hey, these represent amazing value, like, sure, they do, but like that that's been kind of well known for such a long time. Uh, and maybe this is just kind of like bitter old man, like you kind' ofre yelling from the porch. Melica's saying, Yeah. Is it? Do I sound bitter or no |
| Malaika Crawford | no no you don't at all? I'm just taking it in and absorbing it before I come back at you with my opinions. Okay. Uh uh |
| Ben Clymer | I I don't I it's just like I've seen so much of this for so long. And I've seen so many people like try to make something a thing. I've seen people do it successfully, I've seen people doing earnestly and and and the antithesis of that. Um and it's just like it just is. You know, it's it's kind of like, you know, when when we walked round in caliber and we we I did a one of these episodes about why we were getting into pre-own, my my my thinking wasn't like, hey, we're not trying to pre-own, like pre-own just is and like we need to participate in it because we are part of this market and i think same is true for what's happening now and i think like we're not trying to make anything uh we're covering obviously we'll with you guys here what is happening in this world. But it's like the market is is enormous and it will continue to shift from from now until forever. And that's okay. But I don't think anything new is is happening now with the exception, Melika, of like the mainstream em embracing of of what like Taylor Swift wearing a watch around her neck a choker at the Grammys is crazy and Rihanna |
| Malaika Crawford | doing it before obviously yeah that that's yes let's not forget that she came first um I that's kind of what I'm getting at, right? When I say the enthusiast thing is so separate from the rest of it because it's all this like um it's like cool you did it first or whatever. Um like I just don't think anybody did it first. I think it just goes back and forth. Um and it's interesting, Tony, that you you talk about it from a commercial sort of or or just like a a financial reality. Like I never think about it like that. I never think about the fact that people are looking for good value. I just think about what people want to wear and like what they think is cool in the moment. Um, but I feel that the fact that it' ssort of reaching, you know, such a big audience now, like just watches in general, I think that's a different kind of conversation for sure |
| Tony Traina | . Yeah, I think that's right. And that does that the mainstreamification, if you will, of watches, do you think that goes back to almost the the inflection point of the pandemic when things became so big? I mean, I'm |
| Malaika Crawford | here. I'm here because of the pandemic. Like let's just I I mean I was sat there during the pandem I always liked watches, but I wasn't like doing deep dives on Ben Clymer's articles on Hodinky.com until the pandem I mean |
| Ben Clymer | it it's just you know it's it's not just watches, right? I mean it was all collectibles, right? I mean the the the the the trend in collectibles really took off during COVID. We've seen some you know some d I wouldn't say depression of that, but some, you know, recession, not in the literal sense, but it has receded to some degree. Uh, but we picked up a few good folks, including Miss Malaika Crawford, uh, you know, during during the the COVID uh era. And I think that there are so many people that um are kind of like foretelling the death of the luxury waterfall, which is not like we are so much bigger, having been here for now 16 years, like we are so much bigger than even where we were five years ago. It's not even cl I mean, it's not even funny. So yes, we're coming off the highs, but you can't perpetually live on the highs. Like if you if you have a publicly traded company, you're not always continually going up, right? Like you go up, you come down, you go up, you come down. It's it's life. Um, so I think ultimately like COVID was an amazing thing for the watch world and all collectibles. And in terms of where we are now in terms of what's interesting, like it is fun to see these young guys and gals get into dress watches. The Steel Rolex thing was was overdone and i think also there was a lot of there's a lot of really bad actors in vintage rolex no question about it and i think what what is nice for me with this new era of of younger kind of influencer in the space is like you get a lot less of um swapping parts, which was which was everything invented. I mean, you know, 10 years ago, bezels, dials, cases, whatever with Rolex, like it did not matter. It was just a free-for-all. And a lot of people got hurt. And it, you know, it I I'm not I'm not super religious about like you know it's something has to be born with so and so um but a lot of people got hurt uh in in in that era and you know we don't talk about it often but it did happen and I think with with this stuff with Cartier and PGA you're not gonna get a lot of |
| Tony Traina | that Yeah, I think what's happened is a lot of the speculation has been flushed out of the system over the past, let's say whatever, it's been 18 months now, and a lot of that speculation had glommed on to specifically the modern integrated steel sports hype watches that we always talked about. But there's still genuine interest in every segment of the market. I think the the thing is that the genuine interest has just broadened a lot. It's it's in all of those steel sports watches, but all of these other things we've been talking about as well, which is um a net positive as far as I'm concerned. It is. And I I also just want |
| Ben Clymer | to be totally clear here. Like go to a protect store or a Rolex store and ask for a Daytona or ask for a Nautilus and see what they say. Like the hype has not died down in retail at all. It's still impossible to get that stuff. And so I think like you know we're like what when when Bloomberg or less to a lesser degree Bloomberg but like occasionally them. Wall Street Journal, when they say like the vintage watch, or the secondary market prices are crashing, like that that's not nest like the market isn't crashing. It's just it's just coming down a little bit. We're still several times retail. If we're talking about like the big five watches, uh and it is still next to impossible to get this stuff at reta |
| Tony Traina | il. Yeah, on the same token, if you I think you can ask most of these good vintage dealers if they can keep uh a solid 1675 GMT master in stock. Like they like good ones, they can't. Good ones with strong cases and dials and all these types of things. Uh, they still sell relatively quickly. I think it's just people are looking for reasons not to buy a watch now because of everything that's happened. And if the case is a little polished, if the loom doesn't quite match or it's discolored or whatever, if the dial's got a little too much patina, uh it people are much quicker to say no than they would have been when they feel like they were were chasing uh chasing prices a year and a half ago. Agreed. We're excited that Hodinki Radio is back, and our return is thanks in part to this week's sponsor, Accutron, and its new DNA Casino collection. Driven by the world's first electrostatic energy movement, the new Acutron DNA Casino Collection fuses vibrant colors with futuristic design. The four bold new colors, each limited to 100 pieces, are inspired by the bright lights of Las Vegas. The DNA is an update of Acytron's original icon, the SpaceView, the watch known for its revolutionary tuning fork movement. The DNA updates the Acytron Space View for the modern era with a 45mm stainless steel case and integrated rubber strap. Since introducing the world's first fully electronic watch in 1960, Accutron has continued to push the boundaries of timekeeping. The Accutron DNA Casino Collection synthesizes bold colors, innovative technology, and a retrofuturistic design to make a bold statement. Accutron, it's not a timepiece, it's a conversation piece. Check out the new DNA Casino collection on AccutronWatch.com or the new Citizen Flagship Store New York. A big thanks to Accutron for its support, and now back to the show. Well listen, part of the reason that I wanted to talk about this was it's always this sort of nebulous conversation, but we had something to actually attach it to. Uh, and that's Elton John's collection that Melica and I saw a couple of weeks ago. And as I mentioned, it kind of just captured the vibe of 2024 in a in a real way. There's there's Cartier crashes, there's unique piages, all kinds of other things that are gem set from JLC, from Longa, stuff you wouldn't even expect, which is kind of cool. He was a big fan of Shepard as well, might I add. Uh Malaika and I went and saw the sale uh preview. It's going to be atist chrie's at the end of the at the end of the month basically there's an entire series of sales it's part of more than 900 lots from his estate that are going to be going to auction he was also just a major photography collector, uh, jewelry all, kinds of other things, as you might imagine. It's all happening at Christie's. There's an exhibit through February 21st before the sales. So if you happen to be in New York, go check it out. I'd recommend it. But Melica, I think we had a lot of fun at the auction preview because it was just the vibe was very different from this self-seriousness of paddock 1518s and Rolex Daytonas and all of these things that that we usually see |
| Malaika Crawford | . It was definitely a lot more fun. You know, not that sort of complicated watches aren't fun, but this felt lighthearted. And it really, Tony, I think the fact that we were so interested in these very sort of wild looking, dare I say some of them, quite garish looking watches, just points to the fact that, you know, that's where the taste is at the moment. Like let's just really think about what we were looking at there for a second. Maybe want to talk about some of the things we saw |
| Tony Traina | . I was gonna ask. I mean let's talk about it. Give me one or two favorites. Favorites? I'm gonna say the tank normal. Yeah, so there's one tank normal specifically. We'll throw it up on the YouTube if you're listening. Yeah, there was a tank missing from the we didn't get to see it, right? Yeah. Yeah. So there's another tank we didn't get to see that was like it's kind of this rectangular thing from Cartier London with with rubies in the bezel or something. Also super cool from the looks of it at least |
| Malaika Crawford | . So a lot of gems set there was that really cool vacheron, I think it's called Jalousie that you posted on Instagram. Yeah, yeah. The shutter watch, which is kind of like shutter watch. Um, there was that crazy Piaget that's like fake T T fruity. There were some watches that I don't know if either of us would be seen wearing them, but uh they were sort of interesting to throw into the mix, like those Hublers, the crazy animal show part. I mean, it was just really eccentric. It was like it was definitely Elton's watch colle |
| Tony Traina | ction. Very clearly Elton's taste and and his Mueller vision alone. Also, a lot of Frank Mueller's might I mention. He was apparently a big fan of Frank Mueller in the 90s for the way that he's kind of. I mean, let |
| Ben Clymer | 's talk about can I just double-click on that for one second? Frank Mueller in the 90s. I mean, so look, this this predates me in the Hodinki era, but like I was a teen in the 90s. Frank Mueller was the biggest deal on earth. He was Richard Mule before Richard Mueller. And I think like that is something that like Elton John obviously in the 90s was obviously man of means and hyper famous. So it makes perfect sense that he had a lot of Frank Mueller's back then. Yeah, there's this famous story. |
| Tony Traina | Yeah, sorry, Tanny Gone. Uh no, there's this famous story. I think Nick Fulkes writes about it that uh you know, I think it's at an Elton John birthday party. He sits he sits everyone down. There's a covered dish there. Everyone thinks it's gonna be the appetizer of the meal, but he's actually gifting them a Frank Mueller and the the servers kind of choreograph and pull over the pull it up to to be revealed all at the same time. I don't know how many there were, but the guy was wild for Frank Mueller. And honestly I I love Frank Mueller's as well. Uh uh you know, the master of complications is also the master of my heart and I could talk about it all day. So I thank you so much to Dollar. |
| Ben Clymer | Um but I just just to just a triple click on that. So like a c like right master of complications, right? So like late nineties, early two thousands, like complicated watches. When I say he was Richard Mule before Richard, like he was like the watchmaker himself, and Richard's not a watchmaker, but he's the the guy behind the brand. People connected with the Frank Mueller brand because Frank Mueller himself was there to interact uh and really be a part of it. So he was probab I don't know, but he was probably at that dinner party with Elton John. And he's a super fun, engaging, dynamic guy. And that, you know, like you like this is luxury. And so like if you want to support somebody that that gives you joy, and Frank Mueller was that guy in the 90s |
| Tony Traina | . Yeah. And there's a uh a Frank Mueller perpetual calendar chronograph in this collection that's like kinda cool. It's tarnished on half of the case and it's kinda cool to I think he probably actually wore it a lot, which which makes sense given all of everything we've been saying, but it's very Elton John thing. But it was definitely the most tasteful of the bunch though. That's sort of the irony here. Well, the other one I liked was the early Longa Saxonia bigger. Dude, with the with the with the diamond bezel. Yeah. Yeah. That's like a legitimately rare watch. I don't know if there's even another one out there, but it's it's like and it's 3 |
| Ben Clymer | 5. I I so I've I've like spent a little bit of time researching that because I had the same thought. Like, does another one of these exist? And you you may have seen, we covered it. Luke Combs or a diamond bezel longa to the Grammys this year. The same Grammys that were Taylor wore her choker. And baguette bezelangas. That's the story I want Tony Trainer to write. Because that's the story that I want to read. Because I have really gone down a rabbit hole of baguette bezel longest in particular data graphs, but there are there's uh there are world timers, there's the Saxonia, there's a few of them out there. Um and I want to know how many were made, were first generations made. Uh, you know, now you there are there's a rose gold and a platinum data graph up down on Corona 24, both with baguette set bezels right now. And like a diamond set bezel longate is just like what? It's just such a neat thing and like appeals purely to me in the era that I'm in right now. Like I'm gonna love long until the day that I die, just as like a watch guy. But as I said, like I'm kind of bored with just stainless steel stuff and like I want some some bling, I want some diamonds, I want some stones on my stuff. So I I'm but particularly interested in that watch. Yeah, likewise. I think I let out we let a |
| Malaika Crawford | little I let out an audible like when |
| Tony Traina | I saw almost like um you know there's that photo came out of of Michael Jordan wearing the the platinum datagraph on the bracelet in like the late 90s. It's almost that level of sort of weird like quirkiness to me. Like Elton John was out here buying a baguette set Saxonia date and I think this was from 2000 or something. It's totally wild and unexpected and shows how the guy is. |
| Ben Clymer | Yeah, the other thing that I find like incredibly attractive about this watch. I'm actually looking at it right now, is if you click into the picture, the the the rear photo shows a watch strap from grand central watch which is like a somebody I've known since the earliest days of watches and like that is like such a New York thing to have like a watch the with a strap from from central watch and I I really, really find that very charm |
| Tony Traina | ing. Oh so is that your favorite from the set? I know you didn't see it in person, Ben, but just sort of scrolling through Christy's website. Is that your favorite? I mean look, it |
| Ben Clymer | 's for if you're talking about like a thing that I would actually spend my own money on, 1000%. Not even close. Um, but there's a lot like look, I think the leopard Daytona feels very Elton John. Uh that that crazy tank normal is crazy. Um, you know, there's a lot of really interesting things just as like objects. Uh, but that that longa would be one that that I would look at myself |
| Tony Traina | . What are you getting with Taney? I think the Cartier Tank Normal is is enticing for a number of reasons. One of which I will I will not be able to afford it. So not that any of this matters, but you know, even Cartier itself wasn't really making normals in the 2000s. Like you don't see them in the CPC collection or any of these types of things. So it's kind of weird that this was even requested or made by by or for Elton or whoever requested it. We saw another one was posted. I think uh, you know, the mysterious Johnson dealer on Instagram that some people might be familiar with posted one a few months ago, which I I've confirmed is actually a different watch, but it seems as though there was at least one other one. But it actually wears quite sort of a, I don't want to say um understated, but like for what it is, you know, I think 20 baguette diamonds and then you know a dozen blue sapphires or whatever, it's not this totally outlandish thing. And I feel as though I could wear it if the setting were correct. You should |
| Malaika Crawford | get it. Yeah. I I almost think it's because the dial is the sapphire and and that sort of like the the navy blue of the bracelet and the sapphire, like it just looks like one continuous thing. I think if you had the reverse, it would be way louder. Like if you had the diamonds on the dial. Yeah. I think it's very clever. Yeah. Agree |
| Tony Traina | . So for those who didn't catch the first episode, what we're doing is, you know, just DM me or reach out with a question, basically a collecting advice question. Uh I'm looking to buy this or that, sort of give us the parameters and you know you might get your question read on the show and and even get some collecting advice from one Ben Climber and Melica Crawford, which would be really exciting for you. So today we've got a individual uh I'll leave the name out. I'll leave the name out. But this person says, this guy says, I'm 38 and have been collecting watches since I was about 30. My interest started in vintage sports watches, Tudor, Rolex, Universal Genève. And that's where my focus has remained as a collector. By now, I've owned a lot of the models I wanted to, and perhaps owing to my advancing age, I find myself more attracted to gold and dress watches. Having sold a couple watches, I have a little bit of money, say $15,000, and I'd love to buy a dress watch that's totally different from anything in my collection. I'm not opposed to modern, but it seems like there's great value to be had in the neo-vinta era as well. So curious about exploring that segment of collecting. So I chose this one because I knew it was going to be fitting to our previous conversation a little bit. Um, I guess I'll give just like overarching thoughts and then maybe Ben can start it off with with some collecting advice. But I'd sort of listen, I don't want to challenge the premise of buying another watch because I'm always I'm always for enabling, but if it truly is your first vintage watch or first dress watch, I should say, do you really need to spend fifteen thousand dollars? Um it it takes some time to figure out how these things fit. There's a lot of variety in the dress watch world. Like, do you want a Calatrava you? Do you want a tank? Do want a complicated brigade from the 90s? Uh do you want a modern longa? Whatever it is. There's like so much variety. And it's not totally clear to me that this person actually knows what they want besides uh seeing more dress watches being posted and talked about in the community over the past year or two. So I would sort of challenge uh the premise of the question a little bit. But that said, that said, I'm always for enabling. So I do have some thoughts. Uh but Ben, why don't you come in first with some collecting advice |
| Ben Clymer | ? Yeah, look, I mean if I this is like I'm I I'm hesitant to even say what I'm about to say because it's like so boring. Um it's sincere, but it's boring. And that would be look at Longa. You know, look at like the Saxonia thin used or I'm really, I'm really into the first generation little Longa One, in particular and yellow gold, which are actually quite rare and and certainly more than $15,000. You're probably going to have to double that to be honest, uh, to get a good one. But really, special watches like this Elton John Saxony with the diamond bezel, Langa did some weird, weird stuff in the in the late 90s, early 2000s. They were not a successful company. They were a very small company. Um, and so they tried things and you know they would take movements that they couldn't sell in the in the catalog stuff and put them into special pieces hoping that they would sell. And so you get some really pretty strange things, such as Elden John's watch. So I would look at early 2000s, late 90s Longa Saxonias uh in particular. And you can get you can get some Saxonias in the $15,000 range. And if you go back to a three on three that I did many, many years ago with I think Steven and Paul Boutros. We did Vachron, uh Langa, and FP Jorn together. And we all agreed back then that like all these watches are great, but with Langa, you get the same quality and finishing at with their entry level watches that you do with their high end watches, like with the with their comps. And that cannot be said for pretty much any other brand. So there's there's a lot to love from from early langa dress watches |
| Malaika Crawford | . Malaika, any uh additional thoughts from you? You know, as thinking, what is out there that is new and modern, like as opposed to going down the neo vintage? Because I like to I like to think about the sort of new releases and see if there's anything that I would actually ever spend my money on. Um and if we're talking dress watches, Cartier, the Santos Dumont with the enamel, I think is actually pretty cool. Like there's the black enamel, the kind of creamy enamel with the rose gold. I think that's kind of like weird and fun, but it's still like chic and discreet enough. Uh what else would I do? I think I would I kind of agree with you. I feel like 15 grand seems like you don't need to do that. Maybe you do need to do that. Or maybe you could go with I don't know, do we feel like wearing a tank, this is gonna be I don't know, this might be a controversial thing to say. You're gonna upset a lot of people right now. Should I just keep my mouth shut? No, just say it. No, please don't. I was having this conversation with another co-worker and we were like, is a tank kind of pedestrian |
| Ben Clymer | ? I I I my my two cents and I said this I said this at the L V event uh the other week on camera, the crash is pedestrian. The crash the crash is done. That that watched the case of your tweak was not hot enough. Oh my gosh. The crash is the hardest one to the end. The crash is so done. It's not even fun. It really, I mean, it's just it just is. You had it hit fast. It's just done. Ben Clark just killed the crash. Sorry. Unless you're if look, the the exception would be uh nineteen sixty seven crashes. Those watches will be perennially cool. The watches from the nineties, no, the NSO stuff, no. The London thing is cool. If you can get a platinum or yellow gold one directly from the Bond Street boutique, I'm kind of down with that. But anything else, it's a hard no. I'm just blown away by that, but also agree. I very much |
| Malaika Crawford | agree. Yeah, I'm shocked that you're blown away by that. I feel like I'm not blown away by like me thinking it. I'm blown away by you saying it. Well |
| Tony Traina | , too much. If Ben thinks the crash is done, then he's hardly getting out of bed for a tank, I would imagine. Here's the I I think the tank is |
| Malaika Crawford | so much more interesting than the crash. I really do. Okay. Fair if I did have to go for a tank, and by the way, my first watch ever was a tank, like no shade on the tank but if you're picking with 15 grand like you've you've got room to play but i actually really like that black dial Louis Cartier like the yellow gold one I think that's a really nice kind of different looking thing. But I would say maybe try something a little bit more interesting. I don't know. Well |
| Ben Clymer | here's the thing. I mean like to me just quickly and then we can let Tony answer like with with the tank, like I I know some very elegant men and women that wear a tank and have been wearing them for 20 years plus. And like it's just their watch. And it's just like, yeah, like that makes total sense on this person. And they're not trying hard at all. And if I saw any one of you wearing a tank, I'd be like, okay, like I get that. If I see somebody wearing a crash in this day and age, if it's not a vintage one, I I'm just like, this person is is put a lot of thought and effort into getting that watch, you know, and probably a lot of money too. And it's just like, okay, that that just doesn't that just doesn't feel that right to me anymore, you know? |
| Malaika Crawford | It's lost its presertura. A tank is uh kind of just that classic thing though. It's like you can't really hate on like a beige trench coat. I mean frankly, that's exactly it |
| Ben Clymer | . Or a white polo shirt or just a steal some mariner. It's like okay, like fine. |
| Tony Traina | Sure, exactly. You know, I think this kind of well, what you were saying earlier with Longa then, because that was my first thought as well. Uh, and I looked up the Saxonia thin is twenty-three thousand five hundred dollars new. I don't know what their discounting program is like nowadays at at the Longa Boutique. There you go. Uh I know we've heard we've heard various complaints about about things that Longa has been doing, uh, some some some right and not, I'm sure. But this kind of gets to the the the larger issue with dress watches sometimes is why buy a new Saxonia thin when you can get an older one for a a fraction of the price. And you can look at some j genuinely interesting and rarer langas from the 90s, early 2000s, even that are cheaper and within a $15,000 budget, might I add, and aren't gonna lose money as soon as you drive them off the lot. And I think that that continues to be the challenge for for modern brands, I think, sometimes when you're looking at their dress watch catal |
| Ben Clymer | og. Yeah, I mean I I think that's true. I mean it depends what you're we're going for. I mean I just went onto our own website and we have a Longa Saxonia for eighteen thousand right now, pre-owned uh in in gold. But I think it just depends on what game you want to play. You know, I I I know somebody that that loves Longa and wants to get to a point where he gets the call for the honey gold, blah blah blah. It's like the Zeitworks, Moomins, whatever. And the only way you build a relationship is by spending money. And you know, it's just like if you're never gonna sell it and you love the watch, kind of, who cares? Um, but you know, everyone's different. Pe areople playing different games all the time, you know |
| Malaika Crawford | . But where are you getting a dress watch today that's like at retail, brands banking new? Like where are you going |
| Ben Clymer | ? Jaeger. For fifteen thousand? Jaeger? Yeah. In a few years, maybe Universal Genev, if you listen to the podcast that Tony and I did with Mr. Kern. Um nice new pole router, yeah. Yeah, I mean, maybe. I don't I mean, I mean, you can as you said, Melanika, like there are there are several Cartier tanks available in that range. Uh yeah. It's just I had a |
| Malaika Crawford | real look today. Like you know, new yeah, I did. I had a real Google. And I was like, there's just sort of mod it from a like modern watch perspective it is like tough out there it is but I mean I think |
| Ben Clymer | Tony's probably alluding to the fact that like you can buy a a vintage polar router for nothing basically you know um or a vintage omega or even a patek like there's Vintage for sure. Yeah. Ye |
| Tony Traina | ah. Yeah. Well, I'm not sure we gave any super actionable advice there, but we did have a nice discussion about uh about dress watches and where where or not to spend your money. So I guess that's something. That's something. Well listen, thank you guys both so much for for joining another episode of Hodinky Radio. We'll be back again next week. This this time we're going to be doing a a fantasy watch draft for bringing it back everyone. I know we we hear it every once in a while that we should bring back fantasy watch drafts. So we'll be bringing it back with another panel of guests next week. Uh thank you again for listening and thank you so much to our video editor Vic Altaminelli as well for her edits on these |