Breitling CEO Georges Kern¶
Published on Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:55:00 +0000
Our conversation starts with an in-depth discussion of Breitling's surprise acquisition of Universal Genève, including details on Kern's plans for the brand's relaunch. Then, we talk about his tenure at Breitling before zooming out on the changes he's seen over his more than 30 years in the watch industry.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Tony Traina sits down with George Kern, CEO of Breitling and Universal Genève, alongside Hodinkee founder Ben Clymer. The conversation centers on Breitling's momentous acquisition of Universal Genève in late 2023 for approximately 60 million Swiss francs—a deal Kern describes as potentially "the acquisition of the century" in watchmaking.
Kern reveals his vision for relaunching Universal Genève as a separate entity from Breitling, positioned at a higher price point with entirely new in-house movements. He plans to relocate the brand to Geneva and assemble an advisory board to carefully navigate the relaunch, emphasizing iconic designs like the Polerouter (designed by a 27-year-old Gérald Genta), the Tri-Compax chronographs, and the Nina Rindt. Kern stresses the importance of building on Universal Genève's rich heritage while modernizing it for contemporary tastes, with first products expected in 2026. He's even planning to contact Nina Rindt herself and potentially move into the brand's original Geneva building, which currently belongs to Rolex.
The discussion also covers Kern's remarkable transformation of Breitling over the past six years, during which the company more than doubled its turnover and saw its valuation increase from 800 million to over 4 billion euros. Kern explains how he repositioned Breitling as a "journalist watch brand" offering everything from the classic Premier to the high-tech Emergency, staying faithful to the brand's diverse heritage. He discusses the advantages of operating as an independent, privately-owned company versus being part of a large luxury group, noting the flexibility and speed of decision-making. Kern also shares his admiration for brands like Cartier and reflects on how the industry has shifted from movement-focused marketing to brand image, while maintaining that in-house movements remain "table stakes" at Breitling's level.
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Transcript¶
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| Tony Traina | This episode of Hodinki Radio is brought to you by Accutron in the new DNA Casino collection. With 100 pieces made in four vibrant colors, the Accutron DNA Casino perfectly fuses futuristic watchmaking and bold design. Stay tuned later in the show for more on the brand's new collection, or visit AcutronWatch.com for all the details. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Hodinky Radio. I'm excited to be in the New York office today with two giants of the watch industry, really sitting in the one and a half. We'll say one is the one, I'm the half. Yeah. Um sitting on the couch here to my right, we've got the CEO of Brightling and Universal Genève, I suppose, as well, George Kern. Thank you so much for joining us today, George. Thank you very much for the invitation. It's a pleasure. We appreciate you taking the time. I know you've got a busy schedule whenever you come to New York. Um and I've also got to my right, Mr. Ben Clymer. Hey guys. Happy to be here. Well thank you so much for taking the time. I think we're just gonna get right into it, George, if that's okay. No problem. I hinted at it already and you kind of set the watchworld on fire towards the end of 2023 when you announced that Brightling had acquired Universal Genève. There was so much excitement from the watch community from enthusiasts to see Universal Genève back in Swiss hands. Can you talk about how that felt? |
| George Kern | Yes, it was even for us a little bit of a surprise. I mean, we knew, and it's why we we we tried to and and we finally acquired the the brand. We knew about the history, about the emotions around that brand, and the potential obviously of reviving it. But then when the announcement was made, I was submerged and all of us with emails, uh messages, it was absolutely unbelievable the the the reaction also of the press, of the financial press because um you know uh it's an interesting um you know company with private which is privately owned etc it was |
| Tony Traina | incredible incredible take us a little bit behind the deal as much as you'd like. You know, it was a reported sixty million Swiss francs, I believe, and over the years there have been so many rumors of collectors, enthusiasts, other CEOs trying to acquire Universal Genève, which has been in in Hong Kong hands since since 1989. Can you talk about what it was about Brightling's offer and and the potential there that that made it successful for you guys? Um |
| George Kern | I think the current onus have a very strong emotional link to the brand. The family was involved since the 50s with Universal Genève. And they obviously we shared our vision on how we wanted to relaunch it and I think when you sell a house your where you you you lived you want the new buyer to respect uh that house. And I think we were able to uh explain what we wanted to do and how we we see the future of the brand. And then um they they liked all these ideas and they decided to sell it to us because you're right, there were many other bidders uh around this brand |
| Tony Traina | . We're going to get into everything you've done at Brightling over the past six plus years in a moment, and I'm sure perhaps there's there's some hints there. Um digging into the history and the archives and the heritage of the brand but talk about the vision you have for universal genè |
| George Kern | ve i mean we bought that br I mean we looked at many brands you know we looked at many brands also new brands. But I'm convinced that you need history, you need uh iconic designs, you need iconic uh stories, uh, if you want to be successful. And it would be stupid not to use all the heritage of Universal Genève, be it in designs, be it in in in stories, uh and and not use it to revive the brand as it should be. Um also they have some or they had some very specific movements in the old days which we're going to rebuild obviously uh and redo. Why would we pay so much money or buy that brand if we would not build on the history, on the concepts uh of of that brand, that would be really stupid |
| Tony Traina | . Can you talk a little bit more about uh the movements and the heritage that that you're kind of referencing there? I think in our article announcing the news, uh, your brand historian Fred Mandelbaum said something to the effect of you won't see uh commercial or mass-produced movements in universal Genèves. Um, and I know he has been sort of instrumental in in helping you understand the history of chronographs, especially at Brightling, and Universal Genève's history is much the same with their chronographs, um, their micro rotors and the pole routers like those I'm wearing. I think if I if I'm correct, Ben has a chronograph on right now from Universal Genève. Talk about that type of heritage and how you'll be sort of looking at relaunching that. |
| George Kern | So definitely, I mean there were a couple of rumors, but I can and I said it right from the beginning uh first of all this brand will be merged uh separately from uh from Brightling so we're building a team separately from Brightling in terms of design uh product development, technique, etc. And at a certain stage there will be a CEO, et cetera. So it will be um it will be different. And sooner or later the brand will also be located in Geneva. And um and yes, you you mentioned the poll router, you mentioned uh the the micro rotor. Um we're going to put together an advisory board with with very knowledgeable uh people. I think uh beyond the fact to ask yourself what should I do, the question is what are the mistakes I should avoid in relaunching that brand? And there will be many discussions in terms of pricing, in terms of uh sizes, uh in terms of design, etc. etc. And um we had an advisory board for for with Brightling and we've put together a new advisory board for Universal Genève was really great people. And we'll discuss about all that. We have uh thesis, what we want to do, obviously, and we're going to test these Caesars very soon with these people in different areas in terms of design, collection. Because also, let's not forget, um the collection or what Universal uh developed is very wide, but what are the essentials? What do you obviously pull router, the compacts, the tree compacts, Nina Rind? I mean, all this is obvious, but then there are less obvious uh products we need to discuss |
| Ben Clymer | . And I guess a qu a question I would have mostly as a as a collector of Universal. And Universal was was my first love. I started buying it because I couldn't affect when I first started and it got much of the same uh feel. Is is it really the I mean I'm I'm actually looking at a universal ad on the wall, which we did not place there for your benefit. It's been there for 10 years. Um that's a tricompac, right? This is uh to me the iconic universal design. It's something that in in many ways feels almost dated and out of step with today, maybe. Uh by if you're looking at what sells the best, which is steel sports watches, would a product like that have uh the same cachet today as it did in the 1940s? Obviously, Pet Tech, Langa, certain brands can do very high-end complicated formal watches. But uh again, I don't know the price point of what we're thinking about here. But would a product like that you think resonate the same way today as it would in the forties or fifties |
| George Kern | ? No, absolutely. I um otherwise we we wouldn't have done it. Um we obviously in relaunching it we want to do things differently, especially in that price point than the brands which are positioned there. But these products were beautiful. I don't know anybody who has seen the products of that time who wouldn't these are amazing products. Also in advertising, uh, Le Couturier de la Montre. I mean there,'s so many things, but of course you have to modernize it. It has to be contemporane. And what you have done in the sixties cannot be applied as of today. But you know, uh Porsche was also is not the same car as it is today. So of course we have to to to to build on on the history, but it has to be contemporary. And these are there are a couple of detail details we need to discuss. One of the points is you're right, how elegant or how sporty should that uh brand be considering the considering the reality of the market of today. On the other side, you could argue, but let's do something totally different because there's a market which nobody's tapping in. But I will not say everything now because uh let's surprise the markets when we will be ready |
| Ben Clymer | . And the the the positioning, and I there there's been a lot of of I wouldn't say hearsay because I think Fred and some others kind of mentioned, or maybe yourself even mentioned kind of the the price positioning of it, it'll be effectively a little bit more expensive than than Brightling is is Yeah for sure. For su |
| George Kern | re. Because uh developing uh these these movements um uh is very expensive. These movements will be uh significantly more expensive. So these will be all in-house movements. I mean all new movements. Yeah there's it will be it's one of the discussions we need to have. You know, when you say Le Couture, it could be prete à porte and haute couture. I think we should have both. We should have prete a porte and haute couture. Um, but there will be many, many new movements, of course, and it has to be it it it has to reflect the idea of the universal Genève of that time. Asn again, otherwise it doesn't make sense. Why then we could have created a new brand or or take uh a brand of today? No, we wanted that brand. And and I discussed with Fred, he gave me two names. I will not tell you the other name. He's he gave me two brands to buy. I asked him, which ones should we buy? And he gave me and he said, if there's one brand to buy, it's Universal Genève. It took me uh nearly 18 months to get it. Yeah. Um so um we're very happ |
| Ben Clymer | y about that. No, it's uh I mean j just as somebody who's been observing the industry for sixteen years now, n this is the coup of of my lifetime in watches for sure. I mean what you did in in acquiring universal. So many people have come to me over the years saying we should do this. I mean I've heard other other big groups that you may or may not be very familiar with have tried. Um you know it's really this is a a a a major coup, I think, for I would imagine for you personally and certainly professional. I I cannot share this here |
| George Kern | now, but I got a couple of SMS and WhatsApp from very, very, very famous people of the industry, of the luxury industry and the watch industry, and they said this is the acquisition of the century. But this is why we we have to be very careful how we relaunch it. And this is why I want to have a very uh reflected discussion on how we should do it |
| Ben Clymer | . Yeah. Yeah. It th there there's I don't want to say there's a lot of pressure on you, but th there's a lot of um there there's a lot of importance just because of how much this brand means to so many of us. And I I know you take it very seriously. And it's amazing to hear that there will be new movements. I think that the great fear among collectors such as myself, Tony, Fred, etc., would be that it's just uh revived in namesake only and kind of off-the-shop movements. Uh it's amazing to hear that they'll be in-house movements for sure. What what are some of your favorite universals if you can share |
| George Kern | ? I mean um I love I love the whole concept of the pole router. You know uh I think Geraldenta was 27 when he designed it, right? Which is quite incredible. And the watch is so recognizable and uh so versatile because you can do a super elegant watch and you can do a more a watch with more muscles if you want. Um obviously I like the Nina Rint. I'm I'm trying to buy one actually, but I had one in mind, but Fred told me no no there the crown is not the real one, this is not the real one. So um, and I have her contact now. I'm going to send her an email. Uh we're we're trying to interview her and um to um you know Nina is yeah Nina she she is still alive, she's I think around eighty years old, she's living in Sweden. Yep, makes sense. And um I just got the email her email address yesterday actually so I'm going to contact her |
| Tony Traina | on my way back to Switzerland. That's super fun. Have you seen I had a I have a buddy who posted a photo of of Nina Rintz, Nina Rint. So it's out there on the internet. It's interesting because it has different hands than like what you would expect on an inner rent, probably replaced at some point because I think she legitimately wore the watch and used it and stuff like that. Um but that's super cool. That's super cool |
| George Kern | . No, and and I'm also going to visit the building, you know, the original building um of Universal Genève. Uh there's a huge architectural uh office in there now, close to Geneva. And I've contacted the people and they um we'll see perhaps we can move in again. I don't know. That would be cool. Yeah. But um the the the fun part of it, it belongs to Rolex. So good luck. Yeah. I need to talk to |
| Tony Traina | them Well you kind of hinted at it here with uh being slow and deliberate and developing your own movements, but timeline wise we probably can't expect anything uh as far as product in at least a couple of years? 2026. Okay. Okay. Well, Ben, do you want to leave the Universal Genève discussion there and talk about Brightling a little bit? I guess so. I could talk about UG all day long. |
| Ben Clymer | So I'm I I know you won't say yes or no, but the the Corelli split second, the twenty four hour dial split second. How can you not, right? I think we need first to start with the |
| George Kern | automatic. Yeah. The the the Chronos will take even I mean we need we will need uh three years to have a proper automatic in It's like a time only automatic, you mean? Yeah. And and and the corona will take more time, hand wound and and and and uh automatic and uh and then all the complications. But as I said, there are a couple of obvious things we need to do. And we need also but we also need to discuss about the ladies line. I mean, it it's it's such a it's it it's so rich. In a way I felt like when I joined Brightling I was overwhelmed. I didn't realize uh how rich this I mean I obviously I had some knowledge but not in detail and it came and we were con I was contacted by so many collectors. I mean dozens and dozens of people. There's one guy who has one thousand five hundred universal journals. Can you imagine? One thousand five hundred. That might be too many in and and all the auction houses, everybody wants to do something, etc. etc. But we need to step back, to have a proper plan, to talk to you know to to to to have this these discussions with the advisory board and and and not to make mistakes not to go too quick to do it right clean, proper. I think this can be one of the most amazing relaunches in the watch industry of the last thirty, forty years |
| Ben Clymer | . had about universal one more and then we can go on to Brightling. So is it confirmed? 'Cause I you know, the the idea that Jean Gent had designed the polar router in his twenties, that has been passed around the internet, probably perpetuated by our own site for years. Is that confirmed? Have have you guys done that that diligence? Um |
| George Kern | we have we have some uh we we did some legal checks and uh from the ledgers and the contracts I have, yes. Well, actually, we checked if we have the rights, if we bought the rights. Because at that time, he did, it's incredible, he did designs for a couple of hundred Swiss francs. A couple of hundred Swiss francs. Yeah. A couple of hundred Swiss francs. And we have a different correspondence which actually underlines that he designed that watch, yes. |
| Tony Traina | Wow. That's that's pretty neat for sure. With the acquisition, did you get all kinds of different archival documents and things like that that are going to help tell tell the story of UG in a way that we've not expected. That |
| George Kern | 's because there's an incredible community and they they they're all extremely keen to participate in the process and to um submit and and and share uh material. Uh it was the same thing when I joined uh at the you know in the old days IWC etc or or bright thing suddenly all this pops up right yeah and people uh because people are keen and as you said, are extremely emotionally attached to this brand. Yeah, no question. So uh yeah |
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| George Kern | . In a way, and this might sound surprising, I think we are m much more faithful to the brand today uh than the brand ever was because we're using the full scope of the brand. You know, as you know, we've relaunched the premier the premiere, we've relaunched the top time. Uh the Super Ocean is inspired by the slow motion. We're very faithful to the brand. So, in a way, we we have reinvented the brand, but based on an incredible back catalog, we became a journalist uh watch brand. So we offer from a very classic product, the premier to obviously the emergency technology product, which makes it also very different. There are no I don't know any journalist watch brand out there. And um and it works, whilst people told me always no, you have to have a backbone, etc. It's nonsense. You have to be what the brand is. You cannot decide to be a journalist if you have a mono product and you cannot be a mono brand if you have such a history as Brightling and all the lines are successful, obvious obviously the Navi timer is commercially and financially the most successful line, but everything sells. And uh I don't know one single person walking into our boutique who doesn't like at least one of our lines. It doesn't exist. |
| Ben Clymer | Right. I I think maybe might be helpful. And if you can, and if it's private, I understand. Could you frame the level of growth that you've seen? Like where was the brand when you took over, and then where is it now in terms of sales or terms I mean we |
| George Kern | we we more more than doubled uh turnover and we've dramatically improved uh profitability. Obviously you know the valuation of the company has been um increasing. I mean CVC boug bought the company at that time. I mean it was in all the newspapers for for eight hundred million. We now partners group uh into that 4.2 uh 5 billion so the valuation is is incredible uh because the profitability is there the cash flow is there growth is there obviously now uh for i mean in the whole world you have headwinds in in terms of uh of economic environment, inflation, uh exchange rates, etc. etc. But the the question is in in uh when you have headwinds, you gain market share, which we do. Uh, we are in nearly in every country in the in the top uh three, top four, top five brands. So it's and and we have ideas for the next hundred years. I mean, yesterday we gave another push to our ladies segment with Victoria Beckham, etcetera, which was very successful. She's a big deal. Uh yeah. And and it it's um obviously now we we we're lucky a little bit with her series on Netflix and and everything she's doing with David who was by the way uh a brightling guy. Yeah. So yes, I think we opened the brand. We opened the brand. We were in a kind of prison. What does BrightLink still need to get better at or improve at? I mean, now what we're going to do, and we have the 140th uh jubilee this year, we we will work in marketing terms, you talk about esteem, right? We are very relevant. We are modern brand. We are appealing brand. We have uh probably we have very nice boutiques, cool advertising. And this year you will uh we will launch a new automatic in-house movement. We will be 100% uh um uh manufacture um we will um now build uh and we're going to launch the the first type of products this year build complications on our in-house movements, on the B01. And all of this will come out this year during the jubilee. We're going to have a pop-up museum, we're going to have travel exhibitions, we're going to tell much more about our manufacturing capacity capabilities. We're going to talk about as I said, we're launching new movements. All of this is is important. But five, six years ago, we first had to become relevant again for the market. It was a very uh niche brand, very macho, a little outdated in terms of image, in terms of products, and thank God we changed all of this successfully. And now we have to give reassurance to the client on many levels, which we're going to |
| Tony Traina | do. I think around the time you joined, probably five, six years ago, um in-house was was the talk of the town, right? Everyone wanted in-house movements for this or that reason and the perception that it was better. And it's been a focus of of what you've done um the B zero one and now you're talking about a new in house automátic en really beefing up your manufacturing capabilities. But I'm curious if you seen the consumer interest or the consumer demand for that change over the past fiers conditio cine |
| George Kern | quanon. At that level where we are, we're one of the biggest chronograph manufacturers in the world. And we will be one of the biggest because of the quantities we're selling uh automatic uh manufacturers in the world. The point is people expect that from you. You know it's it's uh table stakes. Exactly. So I think it's more a surprise when we don't have it than having it. And it it has to be part of. And and it's also a question of independence, uh, etc. etc. And um it's it's it's part of the growth of the company. You were asking what do we have to do in future, and this is it. I mean our average price when I joined the company, our average price was around four thousand dollars. Our average price now um selling price is six thousand nine hundred. So it's it's totally different. And we know we we see how much more gold we sell, we see how much you know the Avengers, the best-selling products are the ceramic, are the expensive products. So we have this um this potential also to go into other price points, even though we don't we don't want to overshoot, right? We will have a universal genetic for that, you know, for the for the more expensive pieces and and I think where we are let's say between five and fifteen thousand is exactly the sweet spot in terms of pricing and and we want to stay there. |
| Tony Traina | A frequent point of discussion we see on our website and just talking to collectors, honestly, is the way in which brands have moved their price points uh up market a little bit, uh, in addition to just the the larger macroeconomic environment, I suppose. But I'm curious if you feel as though you're leaving anything behind when you go from an average of four to six. |
| George Kern | Um but it's a different I think you can increase prices if you have better offering. For instance, Navi Timer, we when we relaunched the Navi Timer, we we stopped with Selita and Valju, right? And we went fully B01. Same thing with the Avenger. And um it's a different movement, it's a different engine. Um, and you you you you can justify the price, and it was extremely well um it was extremely well accepted. But yes, you're leaving that price point of a chrono at five thousand. Um so now probably you will ask should you should you buy a brand. Do the job for me now. Yeah yeah yeah that was the follow up yeah should we buy a brands doing that? Why not? Why not? But let me first focus on universal and then we'll see uh you know other opportunities |
| Tony Traina | . You're just fanning the rumors now. So we've got to do I'm not fading anything. Historical brand or what do you think? I'm I'm not I'm not going into that discussion. Not yet. We'll conjecture later. As a CEO and as an entrepreneur, uh you you worked at a large brand group for for a long time, almost two decades before before joining Brightling, which as we mentioned is owned by private equity, um is independent. Uh can you just talk about the the different experiences as a business person running brands in in those two different environments? |
| George Kern | Um so you have to differentiate between my personal feeling and then what it means for a company to be independent or to be part of a group as as as uh as from my personal um point of view this has been an incredible journey i mean i love it i have uh with cvc i had incredible investors they they they trust uh trusted in in our um strategy it has been doing I mean they they made a lot of money obviously, but they support us, same thing, partners group. It's it's a total different way of working. You know, it's it's you cannot compare a privately owned company uh from a company which is uh part of a group. Uh we're much quicker, you know, decision process is is 15 minutes when when you when you talk to to to the right people etc which i think is a huge advantage for for a company on the other side so for us in terms of managers as as managers, and we have many shareholders, it's not only me, I mean there are many other all my colleagues are shareholders in in Brightling. So it's very motivating. So that's one part of it. Of course, you have advantages and disadvantages being independent. When you're part of a big group, you have the power of a group of the group, of the brands, towards the distribution, et cetera, et cetera. But perhaps you're less flexible and and and it's uh the decision decision process is longer, what is not the case with us. So in terms of business model, I think both have advantages. And these are advantages for me as a person or for my team, it's much more fun to work for a private company. What's the biggest disadvantage to being independent, privately owned? As I said, you're single, at least we were a single uh brand and you have less power towards distribution than when you are part of a group, you know, where you have where you can talk about different brands with a partner or with a real estate company, et cetera, et cetera. But I think the brand after a while becomes so successful that this fades away. And now is universal. I mean, I there's not one single retailer who hasn't uh uh reached out to us uh uh to have the brand right so this fades out after a while and and I mean there are many brands in the top five uh most of But you need to to be successful. If you're weak as an inter independent brand, it's getting very tough. |
| Ben Clymer | A question we like to ask is removing Rolex because Rolex we all know is doing quite well, what is a brand that you really admire and what do you like about what they're doing |
| George Kern | ? No, there are many brands I admire. Yeah. Um for for totally different reasons. Yeah. But I like Cartier. I mean, I think they're doing an incredible job. It's amazing, isn't it? Even with men, all of a sudden. He's a great guy. There are many brands, you know, from my previous group, which which I like um and um but I also admire and I like as a person like Shamil, you know, he's a very fun guy. I've been there all the time. And um no there are many but for different reasons. Um and uh I've seen so many brands and I I was I had the opportunity to interact with so many brands in my life uh and I wish them all I wish them all luck and success. I think it's important for for for Switzerland. Mm-hmm. |
| Tony Traina | Yeah. No, it can I ask you, there's been such a push towards Cartier, but also just elegance and dress watches more broadly in the past few years has been such an interest for the the collector and enthusiast community. Um it's it's not sort of the core of what Bright Brightling is known for right now. You're known for your sports watches and your chronographs. When do when is it that you see a trend towards something like that or an aesthetic like that and think about how it might inform your your product. I think as a brand you you |
| George Kern | need to keep your identity. You know, we we are not brightling is not an eleg we we are not positioned as an elegant watch. We want to be the cool and relaxed alternative to the more conservative brands out there. We are in surfing, we are in triathlon. I mean we are in rugby. We we are we we are not in flat watchers, you know, in in this is not our identity. And we have to stick to our identity. But then within that identity, you can you can have uh an avi timeer or Super Ocean or Super Ocean Heritage or an Avenger, as long as there is a career and style. And that was a difficulty for Brightling or for us when he took over five, six years ago, you have a puzzle which was aviation watches only, hardcore, um, a little macho, and then suddenly you change the brand, and you take elements of the puzzles away, and the image the becomes blurred, and people are starting to doubt what they're doing. And it takes two or three years to change let's say 60-70% of the elements of the puzzle to start a new image. And I think we've now we're at 99%. But we have that image, we have that identity and we need to keep it. It works, we have a proven concept, it works, it's successful. And uh but we shouldn't change it again towards something uh even more elegant, which I don't think reflect the brand. There are many brands out there which are much better than us in going into that direction. How elegant Universal Genève will be or Sporty, this, I don't know, you're |
| Tony Traina | right you've observed in the watch industry over over the years. |
| George Kern | I think you you you touched it um when you were talking about movements. I remember when I um when I was a tech hoyer tech hoya that at time when I joined uh Taghoyer, it was in uh probably 91-92. Tag was the first company doing image campaigns and running image campaigns with Don't Crack Under Pressure, with Success, it's a mind game. At that time, it was really the movement. You know, movement, design, image. And today people are buying brand and a movement is a conditious in Equanon. It's like you're not going to Hermes to buy a Kelly bag and you're not asking for the quality of the leather, right? I mean it's sure. In a way at our level, people expect super quality, super service, in-house movements, etc. But it totally changed the uh and also when I worked with Günther Blumlein at that time, it was very much who who as you know built the AWC and Langonzone, it was very much about the movement, absolutely, etc. But I think the biggest change is that the brand became so important. The image of the brand became so important. And other elements are still important but are considered as being given and which was not the case twenty years ago. Right. That makes sense |
| Tony Traina | . Listen, I wanted uh I wanted a lighten things up a little bit before we let you go. Uh if I read your bio correctly, you've got some film production credits. Um I know cinema is a bit of a passion of yours. Is this is this correct? Did I read this right? No |
| George Kern | , no, it's correct. I produced a movie in France which was quite success successful with Charlotte Gainsbourg, who is the daughter of Serge Gainsbourg, who was an ambassador of uh of Brightling, by the way, like Miles Davis and others. And it's uh in uh it's based on uh on a famous novel of from John Funzer called My Dog Stupid. Now we're doing the series, but in English in England. And I have other projects. So, you know, people have hobbies and in the industry you have people doing cheese, you have to have people doing wine. I'm I'm I'm producing movies and um it's it' |
| Tony Traina | s uh I love it. Yeah. I'm going to Ben's Vineyard right after this. It'll be great. You can come along if you watch it. By the way, no vineyard. No vineyard here for sure. Um you know, with that, I wanted to ask for a a film or a TV recommendation. Something maybe you watch it on the plane on the way to New York or something you've got lined up for your flight tonight. |
| George Kern | Um uh I mean the best series I just finished last season for me and and it won all the prizes is is uh succession. Yeah of course I love I I loved it. And uh I did I I saw uh Napoleon, I didn't like it at all, to be honest. Um, because I I'm I'm I'm half French, so I know the story, and I think it's it's it's not um accurate. Uh it was very unfair but no I like I like uh on all series I I loved Ozark. I mean there are a couple of series which are very cool um and um it's it's it's a source of inspiration by the way. You know, it's it's interesting to look. I I like to look what is happening in the in the in the movie industry, what is happening in the car industry in terms of designs, in terms of colors. You need to get inspiration fashion I love fashion to come back on on on Victoria Beckham what she's doing and how she changed her style and um became so successful it's super interesting to talk to people who are a little bit outside of uh your core industry but still close because it's all luxury and it's very transversal. You cannot we you shouldn't look at the watch industry as a silo. Somebody who's interested in watches in is interested in cars, is interested hopefully in art or in fashion, etc. And you have a much more, or you need, in my opinion, to have a much more transversal understanding on what is going on in our society, what the trends are, also after COVID, you know, I wouldn't do events today, for instance, at Brightling, as I did five or ten years ago, and you probably attended a couple of them, but it wouldn't be appropriate in in our time. So you have to understand what is going on as a society, uh and and what trends there are, colors, materials, what is going on, because it's all um yeah, it's it's it's it's a global thinking you need to have, I think |
| Tony Traina | . I I wholeheartedly agree. And I think it's also part of the fun part of when you're learning about the history of a brand like UG or Brightling, you're learning about the context in which these watches were made in the forties and the 50s and the 60s. And it it it just makes it so much richer when you discover brands in that way. |
| George Kern | It's a very important point by the way, when we'll talk about Universal, not to turn this into a vintage brand. I think that's that would be a terrible mistake. Terrible mistake. I agree |
| Tony Traina | . Well, George, thank you so much for taking your time or taking time out of your day to to come by the Hodin Key office. Ben, thank you as well. Thank you guys. Um I think we enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for shedding some light on your plans at Universal Genève and and everything you've been up to at Brightling. Um Thank you very much. |