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Hodinkee Radio – We're Back!

Published on Wed, 7 Feb 2024 17:55:00 +0000

Thanks to Accutron for supporting Hodinkee Radio. For more on the Accutron DNA Casino Collection, visit accutronwatch.com.

Synopsis

This episode marks the relaunch of Hodinkee Radio with a new format and host. James Stacey passes the main hosting duties to Tony Traina, with both Tony and Danny Milton joining as rotating editors who will appear on a weekly basis. The show will now be 45 minutes to an hour long, editor-driven with different panels each week, and will include monthly guest interviews. The podcast is now also available in video format on Hodinkee's YouTube channel.

The episode covers several major watch news stories from late 2023 and early 2024. The hosts discuss Omega's new Speedmaster Dark Side of the Moon Apollo 8, an updated version with a master chronometer movement and distinctive features like a miniature Saturn V seconds hand. They debate the watch's positioning within the Speedmaster lineup and its $14,300 price point compared to the previous generation.

The conversation then turns to the Blancpain x Swatch collaboration, specifically the new Ocean of Storms model in black with orange accents. Danny argues it's the best Blancpain Swatch yet because its conventional styling makes it suitable for everyday wear at a $400 price point. The hosts discuss the broader strategy of these Swatch collaborations, debating accessibility issues and the importance of online availability, while speculating about future brand partnerships.

The episode concludes with excitement about Breitling's acquisition of Universal Genève from Hong Kong's Stelux Holdings. The hosts express cautious optimism that Breitling has the resources and expertise to properly revive this beloved vintage brand, emphasizing the importance of respecting UG's enthusiast following. They close with a new "collecting advice" segment, helping a graduating engineering student named Michelle choose between a Grand Seiko, Longines Spirit, or Tudor Black Bay 36 as an everyday three-hand watch.

Transcript

Speaker
Tony Traina This episode of Hodinki Radio is brought to you by Accutron and the new DNA Casino collection. With 100 pieces made in four vibrant colors, the Acutron DNA Casino perfectly fuses futuristic watchmaking and bold design. Stay tuned later in the show for more on the brand's new collection or visit AccutronWatch.com for all the details
James Stacey . while since we've done an episode, but I'm excited to say that we're entering a brand new generation of the show. And the biggest part of that, at least from this episode, it won't matter much moving beyond that, is that I'll no longer be the main host. I'm handing over those reins to my good friend Tony. Tony, if you read the site, you know his stories. He's a huge vintage fan, an incredible writer, pretty solid watch photographer, which I'm quite proud of. He's coming along really well in that way, and now he's going to take over the reins for the show. Moving forward with Hodinki Radio into what I guess we could call like the third generation of the show. We obviously had the Steven era, we had my era. And moving forward, I'm going to take kind of a back seat and just kinda play producer, have some fun, maybe come up with fun little games, things like that for us to play and you know support Tony as I can. But I'm excited to say that uh in a world where you don't need more of my voice, we do get to get uh more of Tony on the show, which is gonna be great. So uh Tony, welcome to Hodinky Radio in a very official capacity
Tony Traina James, thanks for having me on the show. Thanks for that intro. That was far too kind to to all of my skills, but it's exciting to be bringing back Hodinky Radio on a weekly cadence again. Uh, you know, it was one of the things I really remember uh about the early Hodinky days of whenever they whenever we launched it, I should say, uh a handful of years ago, listening to Steven and doing all of those great interviews. It's such a an authentic and real medium, and hopefully we'll continue that in this new generation. Uh the thing that we're going to be doing is on a weekly basis, it'll be 45 minutes to an hour max. It's going to be an editor-driven show. So we'll have a different panel of editors every week. So fear not, this will not be the last of James on any capacity. He'll be here every few weeks, as will, as will Danny Milton. And we're gonna discuss things and do deeper dives into specific topics that get outside of and zoom out from the regular things that we cover on the website to give perspective and thoughts that that we may not have an avenue to share and hopefully a more informal and and authentic conversation about about watches, all things watches. Um we also plan to have guests probably on a about a monthly cadence. So it's good to get perspective outside of Hodinki as well. We're the first to to recognize that. So it'll be an opportunity to have collectors on the show as well as industry leaders and people that we can have exciting conversations with that offer a different perspective from our own, of course. We've already got one interview lined up for the end of the month here in January or early February. It's a CEO from a brand that is involved in some of the things that we'll be talking about on this first pilot episode in a few minutes here. Uh with that, I did want to introduce Danny Milton real quick. Of course, no stranger to the airwaves of Hodinky, Hodinky Podcast, Hodinky Radio, working title, I think, James. But Danny, how are you doing today? I'm doing well, Tony. I'
Danny Milton m especially happy to be here for this uh this debut and this new uh iteration of Hodinki Radio. So just uh really excited to dig into everything we're gonna talk about tod
James Stacey ay. We also have one other piece of news to add for those of you who are listening to the audio. There's also video. Whoa. So if you if you simply found out that we brought it brought back Hodenky Radio via the normal like your podcast feed, the one that you you know we've used for years, if you'd rather watch the three of us have this nice Zoom call. You can kind of peep in on the backgrounds, get an idea of Tony's feel for art and uh Danny's love of typewriters. Uh you know, these are these are good options and obviously all of that is available on Hoodinky's YouTube. So uh we we're doing video now. We're gonna see how it works out. Uh I I'm kinda fun. It's kinda weird doing video. I can't help but like uh kind of ups obsess over over the setup and and you know whether or not I'm looking at the camera enough, which I'm not, but I'll do it now for those of you who are watching. But yeah, this is this is cool. And we we tried video with with BCP and it it went ripp pretty well that's Ben Climber presents, which the first season just wrapped up recently. And uh and yeah, I think it it went well and it's excited to see it for uh Hoodinky Radio. It's something that I you know people have been asking for even even in as far as when we were doing uh the show previously
Tony Traina so first of all don't judge my my tastes in art or lack thereof. This is a work in progress that you see behind me on the YouTube. I think you can safely describe what we've got going on here as target art, but but it'll improve. It'll become watch related uh over the forthcoming episodes. And I think the most exciting
Danny Milton part I just want to say I appreciate that James said my love for typewriters when I have typewriter singular one typewriter behind me. But maybe now I may start to just grow that collection. Just you might have manifested a new passion for me. It's you and Tom Hanks right at the top of the
Tony Traina the typewriter collector. That's right. That's right. It's also going to be exciting to see how many pieces of denim James will be wearing on a weekly basis whenever he's on the show. Uh we
James Stacey 're just at one today, but but it's a family friendly show. I'm wearing I promise I'm wearing two. There's my lower half is also ensconced in uh in denim. Uh but yeah
Tony Traina . Well, listen, before we get into the news of the day in the first episode of the revived hodinky podcast here, I wanted to do the standard wrist check, but I wanted to do a slight variation of it that I learned from the great Danny Milton. Uh I think he calls it the most exciting thing within reach on your desk. So it could be a watch. It could be watch related. It could be, you know, James has all kinds of interesting everyday carry things, I'm sure, just laying around the desk there. I know he's been working, he's been working on woodworking and some other resolutions, I'm sure, in 2024. So as he holds up a hammer. Uh you know, I think I think because it's a video format or at least there's a video format option, it's it's an exciting way for us to show something cool that you know we've got near our desk. Maybe it's a watch that we're about to review for the site and it's a little preview of that. But just something cool and exciting on our desk. Maybe I'll go first here. I've got, you know, it's always sitting on my desk. So it's it's tough for me that I'll use the freebie kind of on the first episode here, but it's just one of these little uh I'll hold it up to the camera and then maybe we can splice in uh a photo. But it's one of these little mavato ermetto clock. Right. So these are fun. I know I I always forget this, but the way in which you kind of wind it is just you kind of open and close it and it winds the crown. It just got stuck. So that's a really bad advertisement for Movado or Meadow clocks. But you can kind of hear it winding, right? It's kind of cool. It winds the crown if you open and close it. It's really, it's kind of the original fidget spinner, really. Um, but it tells the time all right too. And it's a nice little desk clock. I don't put it in my purse much, but it's a nice desk clock. Danny, over to you for something exciting near you
Danny Milton . There's no shortage of things. I've got watches in my desk drawer. I've got box cutters. I've got I'll go with this. This is fun. In addition to, I mean I'm also gonna say, I'm gonna do a what wrist check I'm gonna show what was in reach. I I just picked this up, which is uh Omega Seamaster Diver 300 green dial, which I'm just oh over the moon. It's a good green. My first Seamaster diver I've ever owned. And um I got small wrists and it works for me still. So I'm really into it. Um what I picked up within reach is something that I it's just been, you know, a nice desk companion of mine uh is a bulva desk clock here, Apollo 15 themed, which is great because the the clock comes out, little holder here is cool. Yeah, it's got a little plaque on it. Um commemorating the EVA on August second, nineteen seventy one. And it's great because this dial's loomed. So when it gets dark, I can still see what time it is. It ticks audibly. Um and then I'm gonna do just I just I'm going nuts here. If I if I tilt my camera up, I've got a fantastic clock up there that I knew the Aquas had a couple of big models. Shout out to our our friend BJ, our friends VJ and Josh at Aurus, but that is uh that's a big boy, just for scale.
James Stacey Um, is that the only middle size Aquas with a ticking seconds hand? Probably it is a sweep it's a sweep. It sweeps. It s
Danny Milton weeps. It's battery power, but it sweeps. I think it's like a hundred millimeters. I have no idea.
James Stacey Well over a hundred. It's a lot of millimeters. You can you I I think think when you're measuring something that big it's things the size of a medium pizza. It's just it it's a medium pizza. Oh that's the size of a medium pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have to use the American uh you guys aren't on metric, you're still using pizza. It'
Tony Traina s tough. Uh any size pizza can be a personal if you uh if you just dream just if you're hungry. Yeah. Yeah. All right. James, what about you? M
James Stacey ost exciting thing nearby you? Man, I got a lot of stuff around me. I got a watch. I can't show anyone. I got a cool clock over my over this shoulder, but I'll save that for another time because we you guys both did clocks. I have a little piece of buying advice. I talked about it on another podcast recently. It is a uh UV flashlight for you guys who like to charge up your loom, I'm holding it up. For those of you watching the video, I can even shine it directly into the camera, which I'm sure the camera will love. There it goes. Kind of fun. Uh this is like, let's see, uh current price, Canadian twenty-one dollars. So that's about sixteen bucks. US. It's on Amazon. It's called the Alone Fire SV38. And this has become like a constant tool. If I'm bored on a call, as long as you don't shine it at the at the camera, nobody can tell. But I'll just sit there and play with my loom. I'm currently wearing the uh long jeans le spirit Zulu uh that we did recently which I absolutely adore has great loom and uh but the this is probably one of my favorite recommendations from, you know, the latter half of last year. I uh ran into a fella in Dubai that had one. And I just assume sometimes flashlights are crazy expensive. I own some crazy expensive ones. They're very fun. This one's not that. It's very cheap and uh I really, really like it. It's simple, it charges over USB. And if you like taking wrist shots of Loom shots as I do, or uh or even just you know testing Loom, maybe checking out old watches, stuff like that, pretty handy. Uh I think they make a slightly smaller version as well if you don't want one quite this big. But that's my suggestion. It's the Alone Fire S V thirty eight and it's a UV flashlight. I can attest I've got the pint-
Tony Traina sized version at home. Uh works well too. Cooler. Well, listen, thanks for indulging me in the most exciting thing on your desk, guys. And I think with that, we'll we'll take it into the into the news of 2024 so far. I think we're gonna hop into sort of a news roundup of some of the bigger stories we've had in 2024 and even late 2023, since this is our pilot episode. We're just gonna give you a flavor of the things that we might cover. Um, first of all, we're we're recording this on Tuesday, January 16th, just to give a little peek behind the scenes. And this morning, or this afternoon, Swiss time, if you will, we saw a big intro from Omega, a new Speedmaster, Dark Side of the Moon. So one of the first big releases from a major brand of 2024. So we thought we'd take just a few minutes to talk about it. Like I said, it's a dark side of the moon, Apollo 8. It's an update to the 2018 dark side of the moon. So some of the key specs, it'll be familiar to those who remember that that watch from 2018. But it does have an updated hand wound caliber 3869. It's now a master chronometer. So one of the internal updates is one of the big ones. And if you look at some of the photos, you'll see it's got this cool sort of laser-engraved moon motif on the back with engraved plates and bridges. There's also this skeleton aluminum dial and one of the the new details or highlights to me I think that that Danny called probably in the running as the coolest seconds hand of of 2024, perhaps all year, is this running seconds at nine o'clock. That's like a MIDI mini Saturn V rocket. Uh, it's made of titanium and then it's like painted in white and black, as you might imagine. All of this in a black ceramic case that's 44 and a quarter millimeters. And the price that I'll just mention is 14,300 MSRP compared to about 9700 for that previous version, but a lot of improvements, like I said, that that we just mentioned there. And I was kind of reminding myself about the previous generation of the Apollo 8 Dark Side of the Moon, which of course led me to James's great review from 2018 of the previous generation, where you called it an interesting blend of old and new Omega that comes together with a specific charm and appeal. So I'm wondering, James, recalling that that review and looking at this new update to the dark side of the moon, if you could talk about where the watch sits for you in the wider Omega Speedmaster catalog
James Stacey . Yeah, I look, I mean, I think a lot has changed in five years, both for Speedmasters, for Omega, for watches in general, but I think it it like that comment that I made about the original in in 2018, which was a 50th anniversary model, uh, still stands. I think that it is a little bit of an esoteric kind of outlier in the speedmaster world, even within the guise of the dark side of the moon, which is already like a non-Speedmaster Speedmaster, if that makes sense, like being that it's not steel, they're larger, uh not offered on a bracelet, at least in this, uh certainly in this iteration. That said, all of like the cool charm of the original, which was that skeletonized dial and the moon motif and the coloring, all of that stands and it feels like they almost just took it a step further. They took it a step further in terms of the cool Saturn V hand, they took it a step further in terms of the finishing, they took it a step further in terms of the price. And I think this reflects kind of exactly where Omega is and where they've come in the last five years with the importance of master chronometer. I also think that it's it's kind of interesting to see that they seem entirely unwilling to do a dark side of the moon in a speedy pro size. Because this would have been one option to have done it. You know, there's kind of two main ways that a brand might go ahead and launch a big change to a model. They might do it with the core, which you don't change the core speedmaster. So I think in this case you would do the other option, which is to take an outlier model, like not only is the dark side of the moon a layer deeper, and then you have the Apollo a layer deeper than that. And I think with this one that could this could have been a neat opportunity for them to try, you know, a 42 millimeter uh you know fully ceramic case. But a 44 and a quarter one has to assume that they know all the sales numbers from the last five years. Uh my guess is they're pretty confident that they can move these and and this remains sort of a special and and decidedly kind of different take on on a speed master that still leans pretty hard into the whole sort of moon travel uh sort of scenario
Tony Traina . You know, Danny, we had just a brief chat about our predictions for Omega for 2024 for an article that'll be forthcoming on the site. And I'm wondering if this first release how it might fit into what else you think we might expect from Omega for the rest of the year?
Danny Milton So initially uh thinking about about Omega, you know, last year I was in I was at Omega HQ for their first launch of 2023. And it's funny that it was a a speed master of sorts, a chronograph with the exact same basic color configuration, black and yellow. Um when they came out with the the spirate and the new movement technology, which I was, you know, admittedly surprised not to see implemented here. I would figure that sort of the first launch of this year would be a sort of a signpost of things to come. My understanding is that, you know, in a long view, Omega will be implementing that technology across its whole movement family. But I think um I I want to say that this is a watch that is probably going to be disconnected from whatever else we see this year. I think January is sort of like a new year, not our flagship release, not our flagship theme of releases, but just something to remind you that Omega still does what Omega does. And I don't think you can see any other brand um sort of doing dial work like this that's both playful and extremely sporty and you know inextricably tied to you know its sort of NASA roots in a way. Um it's it's I mean, I have I'm unfortunately not in Europe. My understanding is the event that took place today uh was for European press and they got a chance to sort of see get hands on with the watch, which is great. But even the images that were supplied here, um, it's just it's a it's a it's amazing what has been done, you know, with the miniaturized work, the hand of the year. But I but back to your question, I think that given what we saw last year from Omega, which was one watch in January and a bunch of Seamasters in the summertime that we're in for um I think a bigger release year, and I don't think this is indicative of what we'll
Tony Traina see. Yeah, Danny, you know, one of the predictions that I had kind of slotted in that I was looking for a punchy subhead and maybe my my great editorial team will will be able to help with that on the back end, but is something to the effect of Omega will continue to do some of the most cutting-edge commercial watchingmak at its price point. And everything we see in this watch is kind of representative of that. You know, people are going to balk at the price and all of that type of stuff that we always see. But if you look at that Saturn V hand and the ceramic case and all of the stuff that they're doing on the on the dial and the movement side it's it's impressive and it'll find as James mentioned James mentioned it'll it'll find the market that it's intended for and I think as you're saying it's it's probably sort of a one off thing that'll be separate from whatever else Omega has planned for us throughout twenty twenty four. Maybe
Danny Milton we could probably slot in a black and yellow watch in January of every year for the next uh five years. Maybe that'll be an easy prediction. That's true. Two in a row, baby
James Stacey . Yeah, I I also think this is kind of like a a difficult case upon which to build a law, which maybe is is kind of the point that Danny was reaching for there. And like I think that you know let like think about the the the the delta of speedmasters and you know in the middle maybe you have the core the pro and then you guys can think of like the the pro models that have a Snoopy on them or that have an insignia from an Apollo program. I feel like that's one.' Were going a couple clicks towards moon nerd. And I think if you go four or five more clicks, you get to this watch. It's like very moon nerd appropriate. And I think if if that's the vibe, it's just a niche product. So it has a niche price, it has a niche performance uh statement as far as like you have to like obviously I think you have to feel a certain way about Saturn V, you gotta feel a certain way about ceramic, you gotta feel a certain way about the moon landing for any of this to make sense. But if you check those boxes, I think they've got a pretty kind of cool, interesting, sort of unique take on on expanding the this watch, which was already, as I said previously, sort of an outlier within the the Speedmaster range to begin
Tony Traina with. Yeah, just one final thought from me is that uh, you know, this is kind of a don't make they don't make them like they used to comment, but the engraving on the back is uh we'll see you on the other side. And like just some of the greatest quotes from all of all time are from the Apollo programs and other stuff, and they make for for great case back engravings. Uh, I just I just wanted to add that thought before we move on to to our next little piece of news. And that, of course, is the Blanc Pon and Swatch uh Ocean of Storms. So it's the the latest release from the BlancPon Swatch collaboration, the scuba 50 that we saw last year. This one takes inspiration from the moon's um Oceanus Pro Solarum. And I'm hoping, apologies to any uh lunar residents who I might have mispronounced the name of their famed ocean there, but it's it's a black bioceramic case with a brushed black dial and orange accents that is, you know, as Danny said, it's perhaps the most 50-fathom scuba 50 yet. So we saw the initial quintet of releases based on the the earthly oceans towards the end of last year, but this one is based off of the moon's ocean. And Danny, in your intro, you had sort of the exclusive scoop on this for Hodinki. You called it possibly the best Blanc Pond swatch store swatch yet. So I want to hear your thoughts. Is it really the best
Danny Milton ? I maintain that that position for sure for a variety of reasons. I think that you know when the first five were released in this in the different various colors, representative of the various oceans, that to me was for the enthusiast, like period. Like I think a bit of the colorful, the playfulness was out there for the for a new consumer, similar to what they saw with Moon Swatch. But uh Omega and Blanc Pond are very two different, they're two very different brands. And I think that Omega has immediate recognizability, uh, even if you're not into watch I think even if you're a tiny bit into watches, you might know what a speedmaster is. Um but they I think that the brands, the swatch group at large always knew that the Blanc Pong, the point of this was not to capture the same fanfare that they got with Moon Swatch. I think it's a long play. I think we'll see many more of these in the future. It's a long play to just get watches to um a new audience. And I think we're seeing it, but I think this black version represents um an entry point into mechanical watchmaking, into historically significant brands, in a look that you could wear every day and nobody would look at your wrist and think you're wearing like a playful toy of a watch. It doesn't have that same like happy meal quotient that you might get with like a mission tomorrow. It',s as cool as that watch is, or the sort of the orange or the green uh blanc pond fifty fathoms editions. This is a watch, period. It's a watch with with amazing design DNA that works as a Blanc Pond and it fits the system, you know, fifty one case. And I just think the ability to make an everyday watch inspired by a brand of that level of heritage is why I think it's the best. I just think it's definitely my favorite um and people who I've spoken to who aren't super into watches, like four hundred dollars is not a huge ask of someone. I mean it's definitely expensive, but you're more likely to sp to get someone to shell out four hundred bucks on a watch that they wouldn't have to have like a blue watch on their wrist every day or a green watch on their wrist every day. So that's where I'm coming from
Tony Traina . Yeah, it's the natural push pushback, of course, is that it is a lot for a for a swatch in a system 51 but but point taken that this isn't just any any swatch or any system 51 all of the blanc pond dna that you're talking about is there and I will say I was walking around Miami Beach over the past few days as one does. Uh, and I saw at least two or three Blanc Pond swatches. So these things are out there and it's it's cool to see. And listen, people, people are starting to learn about the story of Blanc Pond, which is more than you could have said even six months ago. Yep. James, I wanted to ask you kind of a general question because when I was sitting down putting together this rundown, I realized I didn't know your thoughts about just the Blanc Pond swatch collab more generally. It's not something we've talked about. So I'm wondering what you want to see from Blanc Pond Swatch going forward? It seems like they're going to continue to perhaps drip out collaborations of some sort or or something similar. So I'm wondering what you'd like to see from them going forward or perhaps more broadly from the future of Swatch collaborations
James Stacey .. Yeah I mean, I I I think what's interesting about this one, uh, which Danny already underlined, is like this is arguably the most conventional of the 50 Fathom Swatch collabs that we've seen so far. It's the one that seems most at home. It's not a bright color. Uh it's it's a little bit more under the radar, which I think makes sense. You know, I I find it interesting because th it was divisive when Omega did it. And arguably I think it weirdly you think it maybe maybe I just exist more in a dive watch space than I do in a chronograph space, but I think the Blancbon ones seem even more divisive and it could be the higher price point. Yep. Right. Um I I'm kinda I like the the there's a few different ways you can look at it. One, why would Blanc Blanc Fond do this? And with we we had the same conversations about Omega. Why would Omega do this? Well it turns out at least anecdotally what we've heard from Omega is this was seriously effective in sharing their brand and the as bummer of a term this is, this is the world we live in, the DNA of the Speedmaster with a group of people who weren't going to go after a $9,000 watch or a $6,000, $7 se,ven0 t00housand, e,ight thous,and like whatever you can find a speed master for, depending on the model and the spec and the rest of it. And I think if it made sense for Omega, the exact same thing has to make sense for Bonk Punk. Just getting their name out there, I think is the is the game, especially when you make a very premium product. And you know, I spoke to Blanc Pont CEO not that long ago, and he was very clear that they don't really have an intention of going down market as a brand. So this is a sort of interesting exception that does speak to an entirely different audience than the brand otherwise captures on a day-to-day, month-to-month, year-to-year basis. Even in a big year, they had the the main, you know, the big 70th anniversary three act plan from last year. We've heard rumors of what's coming this year. And I think it's an interesting time for the brand. I don't really have like I don't do a lot of hand wringing about the brand side of it. If a brand, Blanc Pond, Omega, any brand really shoots themselves in the foot, that's their fault. And like it's not up to me. I don't make these decisions. I'm not a shareholder. It's all good. This is business. I'm more concerned for the consumer side of it. And this is where like, hey, we have a record, we're we're on a podcast right now, they should sell these online. I think that a good portion of the negative sort of impressions that can come up in conversations about these watches, and certainly about the speedmaster versions, were that they originally it said they would eventually be available online and then they changed their mind. And I don't think anybody these days, especially people who are in the watch game, even if they're not in a world where they have to argue over their ability to buy one of a hundred and seventy Tiffany Dial fifty seven eleven's just don't like the idea that they can't buy something. That should be available. If you want to c make a bio ceramic, quote unquote, something similar to plastic cased watch with a computer made movement. You should be able to make a lot of them and you should sell them online. The rest of it, I think just comes down to opinion. I've spoken to people who love and own Blanc Pon 50 Fathoms that don't like these watches and I've spoken to people who love and own Blanc Pom 50 Fathoms that do love these watches. So I think if anything, it's it's just something that splits the line. And I think that's okay. It's good to make have a moment, and I think part of that moment is in the divisive quality of the product. Um, I've seen the blue one in person, the one that Danny has, and and I really like it. I think they're fun. The price doesn't bother me. Um you know, I think they are a little bit more disposable than a blanc pond should be, but they are appropriate for a swatch in my mind. And I think that the thing that does bother me that I would like to advocate for for our readers, for people who love watches, uh, is that they, you know, it would be cool if they sold these online. Even if you you paid and waited. I don't think anybody would mind that. It's better. I don't I'm not gonna wait in line, physical wait in line for anything.
Tony Traina At all. Definitely not a watch. It's just the fundamental push and pull of the product and then the accessibility of the product, right? Like swatch is all about democratization and and all of this stuff. And my understanding is the ocean of storms wasn't even available in in every swatch boutique or swatch store, if you want to call it that. Uh Danny, as you mentioned, it's going to be part of the regular collection. So I assume it will be rolled out more broadly over the coming months. But uh it does make it difficult to completely get behind a a release if it's not going to be like you're saying James broadly accessible to to the folks so uh you know we're speaking on behalf of indexing. I do deep down we all just want to be excited about wat
Danny Milton ches. For sure. There's a level of it too there I I imagine that what Swatch is doing is understanding what an absolute crowded space it is out there. And the only way to create demand is to is to do this. And and we all also know that I think originally the plan, at least the messaging was that they were going to put the moon swatches online. Very quickly that was reversed. So it's not like it had that seed has not been planted or at least thought about, you know, in those halls, you know, over in Switzerland. But I imagine we'll see it. What I do like about this overall, you know, despite the comments that tell me that, you know, they've jumped the shark every which way with some of this stuff, is I think it's very real that people develop brand loyalty when it comes to watches, especially if you're not a collector, if you are just like once you're like an omega guy, you're an omega guy. Or if you're a speed master guy, you're a speed master guy. And I appreciate the fact like, yeah, this is probably something of a cash grab, but these are also for profit businesses. And what are they supposed to do? But launch successful products. And this happened to be successful products. I'm not sure what how we're measuring the success of the Blanc Pond yet. Um that remains to be seen. Um but I do think that we also know that watch enthusiasm is extremely addictive. Um and so we missed the boat of the days where you could buy, you know, a Rolex submariner for a hundred and fifty dollars, you know, and where those watches have like far surpassed the rate of inflation over the years. So even if you were to cross compare what a hundred and fifty dollars was in nineteen seventy to today, you're looking at like, you know, it's something far less than what it really costs. So it's cool that you can sort of just like walk in and drop two hundred and seventy five dollars and end up with a piece of heritage and at the high end four hundred
James Stacey Well listen guys, I think that's a go ahead, James. Sorry. My pregnant pause there. But uh yeah, I I think that the pricing thing I I do I like I'm kind of a like of a a split mind when it comes to arguing about what a watch costs. Because some watches are like aggressively overpriced and maybe that's because the brand doesn't want to make that many. Maybe that they can't, or maybe there's something in there and they know that it's only going to appeal to a certain type of buyer and that buyer's not that cost sensitive. There's a bunch of different ways to look at it. With a $400 watch, I think that there's an element of the watch community, especially the value side of the watch community, which I'm I'm part of. That was my bread and butter when I started in this game, and I still love watches that are less than a thousand dollars, like very much. I'm fascinated by them and and try and follow them as much as possible. But I think that the world, there's a little bit of like a time machine effect of people not remembering that you can't buy an SKX 0007 from Seiko for $140 anymore. Right. You just can't. And that's too bad. But it like the idea that these are $400 is kind of like $170 in watches 10 years ago, or $140, or what whatever number you want to attribute to the first Sago you bought, but that isn't um an SNK that costs you 65 bucks. That was the real screaming deal that we're we should all be sad about going away. But uh yeah I I think the pricing doesn't feel out of line um from the world of Swatch and, I think it's really interesting to think where they'll take it next. You know, Tony, that was part of your question. Uh, you know, there's definitely rumors of brands that are out there. I, for one, think there's a weird side of me that would like a cartoonish plasticky bioceramic take on early Brightling. If I was throwing out a brand that's not part of the rumors, uh that you can find online, but like imagine, you know, like uh I think it'd be fascinating to see them do a Navatimer in in this in in wild colors and introduce people to a piece of the history of the aviation era, of the post-war, you know, um space race and that kind of thing. Uh that that's kind of the one that pops into my mind. But I'm curious, like if you guys what what brand do you think has an IP that's as strong as Speedmaster or Fifty fathoms to to us, you know, uh quote unquote people, you know, people who spend most of their time talking and looking at watches. Uh what what ones would you guys want to see uh turned into these sort of fun cartoonish kind of lower stakes takes. I mean, I
Danny Milton think that I understand why they didn't do it right after the Speedmaster, but the obvious is just to stay in Omega and just do the Seamaster. Like a diver 300M. I think it'd be really fun. I think it's like a great template. I think a wave dial translates really nicely to this format. I've heard some pretty credible rumors that I I'm not gonna, you know, put out there, but I think like there are, you know, I would love to see something outside of the swatch group, much to to James' suggestion about Brightling. And I think I've I've heard from pretty good sources that um the swatch group is not having to go out and ask. They're getting uh like several requests from Brandon wondering if they
James Stacey if they can collaborate. Yep. Tony, I'm I'd like I'm in deep down do you just want a bio ceramic uh take on the two two two full bracelet
Tony Traina ? I think that's right. I think bioceramic integrated bracelet watch. Listen, like the trend has been away from those over the past few years. So maybe we're past the point of a of a bioceramic royal oak or Nautilus or 222, like you said um but man i think danny's alluding to some of the rumors and some of them involve the aforementioned watches but i think that'd be sick um but who knows if it'll ever happen who knows if it'll ever happen at this point. Um, you know, I'm trying to think like so much of the trend has been towards like smaller, dressier watches and and obviously one of the the classically inspired brands in this watch group is is bright and I love the I love the idea of a bioceramic brigade Torbillon, which I've seen kicked around and probably even seen some photoshopped renderings of. That would be wild if you want to go in the other direction, but that that feels a little less plausible to me
James Stacey . Yeah, I don't you know just watch have a a turbulent movement that I've forgotten about. Not yet. I wonder if they could make uh system fifty one but out but rearrange it so it was like a tradition like with the fully open worked. It'd be pretty cool. But like uh that's not going to be $400. Just to set just to just let me help Brigade set the audience expectations. You may or may not be able to buy it online. Definitely not $400
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Danny Milton ape from uh like a broader um industry perspective you know, we've seen revivals of brands at a lower price point become sort of like a very uh in vogue thing to do, sort of buying up IP, uh, going back into the the catalog and and producing, you know, in many cases one-to-one recreations of watches, you know, from the nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, things like that. Uh if you think about UG, I'm I'm quite glad that it is now owned by a brand like Brightling and sort of not been brought into um where you might confuse a new UG with a micro brand in a way, if that makes sense. Um and that's no slight to those other watches. It's just it's a very dangerous territory. Because I think in a perfect world, UG would have survived the ages and we would have had sort of like whatever the timeline of design through the years brought us to today and what UG would look I would I would rather see Brightling whenever they figure this out. And and I I've heard sort of rumblings that that UG will exist up market a bit um in the way they're gonna position the brand, which I'm I I I guess that's good. It depending on on what uh you know what they're gonna be basing those designs off of, but I would like for it not to be sort of a um a retro revival inspired brand, nor would I like it to be sort of some strange futurist version of of Universal Genève where you're you're taking every bit of its heritage away from it and only maintaining the name, which I don't think you know George Kern and team would ever do. I think they're extremely conscious of what history means to watch design. So, you know, when I look at things like what Kern has done with the Brightling premiere line of watches, I foresee uh UG sitting somewhere up in that space. Um, and I think that what they've done, what Brightling has done there is is quite remarkable in the face of a brand that basically is recognized on the back of the Nava timer, the chronomat, um things of that nature, uh more like you know, tool watches. And so if it's if it's gonna look anything like how those watches are presented, I'm excited for for where it's headed
Tony Traina . Yeah, Danny, one thing you said there that, you know, we even got some intel from the comments section of our website, which is great when that happens. But Fred, Fred Mandelbaum, who is basically a heritage consultant for Brightling, he's been involved with really reviving the heritage appreciation for that brand and and the inspiration that that it takes in some of their modern designs. He left a comment on our on our site where we introed or announced the deal that said you will not see a mass market movement in a UG, which seems to hint at exactly what you're saying, uh, and some of their ambitions for the Brightling brand. Um, it's going to be sort of reviving UG inside and out. So designs as well as some of the chronograph movements and the micro rotor movements we see in the pole routers and and stuff like that, it it hints at probably what they've got to to come for the brand and probably part of the reason where we why we won't expect anything for at least a couple of years. Sure. James, I wanted to ask you a question. Maybe I'll tee it up this way because it's basically Universal Genève is a brand that's been kept alive by enthusiasts for essentially a generation now, since it's been held by that Hong Kong company. And I'm wondering as an enthusiast, what you're hoping to see from a revive UG. Kind of take this question any way you want. Maybe this is specific models or specific movements to you, or maybe it's just an ethos and how they approach their or think about design and watchmaking.
James Stacey Yeah. I I think it's it's a funny thing to set out on the task that they have by start by essentially planning to relaunch UG and I hope that what they decide to do is just take their time. I think that they have the resources. They have folks like Fred, who you mentioned. Let's watch Fred on Instagram for those of you. Uh, if you want to learn about vintage uh Breetling, this is a great way to go. Um, and I think uh take your time, talk to all of the people who have kept this brand alive philosophically, emotionally, people who have written about it online, try and capture what the my cause I think it it's one thing if it if this was five or six years ago, seven, eight years ago, I would say, look, UG is mid-century perfection, just do that. But everybody's been doing that for the last few years and now they're behind that ball. Um and and I think the world in which yeah you could you could crank out a new pole router and have it feel really fresh was kind of eclipsed by f 200 other brands making 50s to mid-sixties to late 60s style watches in a modern place. I agree with Danny that it I'm pretty happy that this went to a large, powerful brand. But I think the the other side that's interesting is you know, Brightling has its lane, and it's a lane they typically stick to. And this gives a powerful brand with a lot of manufacturing capabilities and the independence to do what they want, a new lane, which I find really exciting. Um so I I don't have any doubt that that Brightling has the ability to make or partner with anyone they want to make a movement they want. They could work with Tutor, they have in the past. That we've got new manufacturing capabilities since they even started that production uh with Tutor. Uh and and I think I think there's a a ton of potential, but everything is gonna come down to execution. And I think from the get-go, they have to understand, and I'm sure they do, but I'll say it anyways, they have to understand that their customers already exist, and it's the absolute mind share of this brand online. And they can't own that. They just have to respect it. They bought the brand, they own that. They can make watches with the brand name on it. But if they want to be successful, they have to make, they have to start at least by making watches that UG nerds want to buy. And I think figuring out what that means in twenty twenty six, let's call it, is a task. I think they're capable of doing it. I think they've done a uh I think George has done a great job with with Brightling over the especially over the past two or three years, let alone since the Navi line was kind of remade and the and that sort of thing. Um but I hope that they just take it roughly to the execution of the eight oh six limited editions, one of my favorite kind of vintage effect re-editions of the last several years, but really do so by leaning into the ear of the collector that has essentially kept this brand interesting and alive, despite the fact that it was in many ways in a coma for a long time
Tony Traina . Yeah, and I will say they've already sort of put together what sounds like they're they're calling an advisory council of kind of well-known vintage collectors, vintage dealers. Uh, over the past six months or so, even it sounds like they've been talking about what might be in store for the brand, which is one of the reasons um uh we started to hear rumblings and leaks that that this was happening in in advance of the official news. So it sounds like they're already leading into the enthusiast side of things. So uh to your point, it does also sound like they're going to to take things slow and they have no no plans to be releasing anything for at least the next year or two as they think about what to do on the design and the movement side. Right.
James Stacey And obviously, plus is that my apologies, but I you know I think that the final plus of this, which is kind of what Danny was getting at earlier, is like by Brightling doing this, it means that we don't have a UG that starts with a Kickstarter watch. Yeah, exactly. This will be a premium brand from the first 2020 wh,atever model they make. There won't be a growth curve. There will be everything that it needs to succeed. There'll be press trips. There'll be proper photography. There'll be all this sort of stuff. It's not going to be as much as and look, I love indie brands and and micro brands and the rest of it, but I totally agree with Danny where you know it's difficult to to kind of find comps in the market. Volcane jumps to mind, weirdly. Um, but just because of their footing. But they Volcane doesn't have the the the the like enthusiast hardcore cultish. They have a cult following for sure, but not like you almost no brand has one like UG. So I mean stakes are kind of high, but I think they have the right company, brand, money, technical pro s the rest of it to to make it happen. And I I'm it's one thing that I'm like genuinely interested in in the next couple years. I think a lot of watches in the last couple years have been kind of boring and derivative. Um not bad, but just the same, which is fine. New people come into the fold all the time and you get to learn about stuff in in different paces. But I think this is a genuinely exciting move and uh and I think probably at least Tony, I'd be curious if if you agree, but like this is BrightLink seems like a good brand, a good match for for this task, no
Tony Traina ? It does. I think I when I talked to you guys and kind of had heard uh that this might be happening and I said that Brightling was the one acquiring it, I think Danny paused for a minute and then he said, yeah, I think that makes sense. I mean two of the most historic chronograph makers in the history of of watchmaking now together. And I think they're it sounds like Yuji's gonna be doing something separate on the movement side, but obviously shared expertise and all of that type of stuff will will come into play. But I think on the product side, it it is difficult to think of an analog. I think of things that have impressed me in the price point that it sounds like they're going to try to play in that are heritage inspired, but not overly derivative of something we've seen over the past few years are something like um the JLC Heritage Reversal Chronograph that we saw last year, which was an amazing watch, right? It's based off of a watch in the 90s, but a totally modern thing where they updated the movement and it's it's sort of heritage inspired but a totally modern thing another one is the um the shopard luc 1860 with a salmon dial that they released last year again inspired by a watch from the 90s but a beautiful geneva SEO micro rotor movement and all of that type of stuff. And obviously the the comparison there to the micro rotors of the the 50s and 60s pole routers already is there. But these are heritage inspired watches, but things that are also completely modern and not overly reliant on the past. And I'm hoping that if that's the price point that they're going to be trying to play in, which it sounds like they are, um, I'm hoping that maybe that's the direction that that they're that they're pointing at. But but we'll see you guys, right? Yeah.
James Stacey Yeah, for sure. Uh Swatch X UG 2026. That'll be the first line. Oh, can you imagine? I can hear I can hear the pitchforks. They don't normally make a lot of noise. I can hear them. This watch router, the pulse watch. This pulse wat
Tony Traina ch. For the final segment of our weekly podcast, uh, you know, maybe the last five to eight minutes of every episode. I wanted to intro something that I think I'm going to call the working title is collecting advice, based off of another podcast where they do life of advice to life advice, if I'm being honest. But the idea is to take um perhaps the most common question I get in my emails or DMs or just talking to other watch enthusiasts, uh, is kind of this genre of inquiry I think of as collecting advice. So it's enthusiasts or full-on collectors asking it if they should buy, sell, trade, this or that watch, and then just seeking opinions on it, right? We all want opinions or validation into uh this crazy hobby of ours and and the ways in which we're spending too much money. So each week I'll bring one of these situations to our editors. I'll introduce it, the DM that I got or the message that I got. And we'll do our best to offer some advice to our collectors slash listeners. So this one I'm calling three hander for graduation. And I would say in the subset of inquiries I get about collecting advice, this specific one is probably one of the most common ones I get. So this came from a guy named Michelle, who's an engineering student. So Michelle writes in and he says to me via DMs: I have a two-watch collection, a Seiko SPB143. Um, editorial note here. It's clear that he's been reading James's work on the site. So congrats for that, Michelle. Uh, and a Baltic HMS002. For my university graduation, I'd like to add another piece, an everyday watch with three hands. I have a small wrist, so prefer a small lug to lug. I was thinking about the Grand Seiko SBGX261, one of their 9F quartz watches. But do you think I'm wondering if the Grand Seiko is too dressy for everyday use. Other alternatives I've thought about include the Long Jean Spirit 37 and the Tudor Black Bay 36. So James, I'm gonna hand it over to you, I think first to to give us some thoughts. But I think Michelle here, it sounds like even as a student, he's built a nice little two watch collection. You've got your dive watch, you've got your dress watch, and now uh on the the pending graduation here. It looks like he's adding something a little more a little more expensive, a little more upscale as something every day. So so James, what are your thoughts
James Stacey ? Yeah, look I I I think this is great. I I don't know that this collection needs a third watch, but who am I to slow you down? Nobody slowed me down in my third or my twentieth. You're not doing your job if you slow him down, James. Come on. No, no, no. That's not what I'm saying. I think you're doing just great already, Michelle. Um, but I love the idea of picking up a watch uh to mark a great moment. And and honestly, there is something that remains really special about Grand Secos. I understand the appeal as a watch to commemorate something. They have this kind of jewel-like quality and fastidious finishing and, they make interesting watches, like this SPGX261. I love a quartz watch. And I like high-end, high accuracy quartz stuff is really fun. I think in my mind, with the watches you already have, I might lean on something that is actually even dressier than this and go SBGW, something from that range. That would also get you a lesser lug to lug, I believe, or at least something in the similar range of say 44 millimeters. And it's a nice case width and you have a few more options in terms of uh dial color. Um typically when someone wants a watch that in my mind is is somewhere between a field watch and a dress watch, I need to know really where you land on, do I need a bracelet or not? Like, am I a strap guy? Am I only a bracelet guy? That sort of thing. So I think that factors in. I think you could go towards a more budget option with something from Hamilton and still be really happy with it and it would complement the collection nicely, seeing as you have the the sort of uh dive watch and then the the Baltic as well and you would expand that with a sort of cool field watch, which I think could be really fun. And and obviously you can get your way into a khaki field mechanical for six, seven hundred dollars. Uh which I think is quite appealing. But it's a different that is admittedly a very different appeal than a Grand Seiko. And to a certain extent, I think if you're locked in on a Grand Seiko, you may be not locked in on something like the Hamilton. Uh that you know, if you want to dig around at even dressier options that still capture a similar vibe, you could check out the JDM Seiko collection that's called Dolce, D-O-L-C-E. So I have one from this line. It's called uh the Seiko Dolce S-A-C-M 150, and it was under a thousand dollars. And I think it takes a certain appeal from Grand Seiko in that you get mountain style hands and a kind of fanciful dial. But this watch is quite small. Um it's thirty, thirty, three, five, thirty-four, has a little tiny crown. It uses a high accuracy quartz. I think it's gorgeous. It has this sort of textured gold dial, but the dolce line includes a lot of other watches, and I think that might also be worth uh worth the option. Uh the the next one and and sort of final one in my thought process, uh honestly I might be taken right out of Tony's pocket. Uh look into quartz uh Cartier. Like with the watches you have there, uh a quartz tank or or even a larger Panther or or something that maybe aligns with your whichever one kind of h hits your vibe the hardest, if you will, I think that's also a great option. You still get quartz, you get an incredible name. You get to watch it like is so eminently stylish right now, but has never really not been stylish. There had you know, Cardi is enjoying a really solid moment in the last couple years and and I think that's going to continue. Um and and as long as you don't feel like a a tank or uh conceivably in in some guys a Santos or or or Panthe or something was too too dressy to be an option, I think that's also a good play as well.
Danny Milton Danny Milton, your thoughts. I'm gonna just keep it simple because I think you know where where Michelle's coming from, having sort of like an idea of of two brands that you're looking at. I think Tudor is an interesting place because now all the Black Bay uh non-divers, the Black Bay 36, Black Bay uh 41, they're all on five-link bracelets now. Uh they're no longer on three-link oyster style. And so it changes the dynamic of the watch in a way that admittedly like I miss the oyster style bracelet a bunch. But I have now seen the Black Bay 36 with the new blue dial released at Watches and Wonders last year several times. It is the one of the most compelling dials on a simple, no-nonsense three-hand watch that I can think of off the top of my head, period. It's a very unique blue. It's it's a weirdly like matte sunburst. Um, and it's the kind of watch where there's never a bad scenario for it. Now the the black bays have the chronometer certified movements inside, which is great. You know, they no longer have the sort of the smiley face dials. It's got the T fit clasp, if I'm not mistaken. So you're getting T-Fit and 36 millimeter on basically Tudor's version of a Jubilee. Uh, just don't tell them I said that. And and you're, you're kind of like you're working with a great watch at that point. And that works in dressy environs, it works in sporty environs. You're it's the kind of piece where you're not breaking the bank to buy it, but it will be with you forever in a in a in a way that I think will make the watch that much more spe
James Stacey cial. Yeah, I totally slept on the the 2023 update with the bracelet, the fancier dial, and the T fit. That's a great choice. Awesome. Good call
Tony Traina . It was my choice as well if I,'m being honest. Uh it's a pretty easy call. You know, it was my two if I'm lying. The Black Bay 36. That's good. Uh the 36 was the first watch I bought new actually was the old gen of the Black Bay 36 with a black dial when it was an ETA movement. It's a great watch. It's an entry into tutor. It's an even better entry into tutor now for all of the reasons you mentioned, Danny. The blue dial is the one to get. Uh it's it's you know still half the price of a date just essentially, so it's not even competitive with it, even though it the updates were were made to make it look a little bit more like an OP or or a date just um you know listen there's probably a purist that misses the two thousand dollar eta watch that was kind of more of a field watch than these but i love these because they're manufacture caliber and they're updated and better in pretty much every other way um that you can think of. The the one thing is it is 3925. So it's a little bit above the $3,000. So you know save up for another thousand bucks if you need to. But if not, the other thing I was going to mention is that I always mention at this price, if someone's looking for something a little, a little more dressy every day is is gnomos continues to be a great entry point. But listen, you gave us a three thousand dollar budget. So who am I to not spend every dollar of that budget? And then uh and then and $925 more in this specific case. But if you only want to spend uh $1,500, $2,000, you can get a Tingente, you can get a Club sport, whatever it is, Nomos continues to be a great option uh for for everyday post-graduation watches as well. So so perhaps we'll leave it at that. Michelle, let us know what you get once you've graduated. We'll be excited to to hear and potentially even follow up on these collecting advices should should it be required. I think we're gonna leave the first episode of the new and revived hodinky podcast there. So thanks for listening guys. Uh let us know in the comments or leave a review on Apple letting us know what you think of the new format, what else you'd like to see from the new format, and reach out to us with with collecting advice. We'd love to to make that a regular thing uh towards the end of the podcast here. Keep it keeping it involved with the hoodinky community as well as talking about and having conversations about the latest news and watches. So stay tuned. We'll be back next week with with more Hoden Gee Radio. Next week and every week I should say. T
James Stacey ony, it's been a pleasure. An absolute treat for sure. Great to have the show back and uh pleased to have you running it. So excited to see where it goes.