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Ben Clymer Presents: 06 – The Lange Episode With Wilhelm Schmid

Published on Wed, 8 Nov 2023 18:00:00 +0000

The ins and outs of Lange with the brand's long-standing CEO.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Presents, Ben Clymer sits down with Wilhelm Schmid, CEO of A. Lange & Söhne, for their first conversation in over five years. Schmid, who joined the company in 2010, discusses the dramatic transformation the brand has undergone during his tenure, particularly in the last five years.

The conversation centers on Lange's pivot from a traditional wholesale model with approximately 260 points of sale to a direct-to-customer boutique model with just 50-58 locations globally. Schmid explains that this shift, while losing some customers attached to specific retailers, has allowed the brand to finally know their end customers—critical for a manufacturer producing only 5,000-5,500 watches annually. This intimate scale, combined with global infrastructure support from parent company Richemont, gives Lange a unique position: large enough to afford a worldwide presence, yet small enough to know each customer by name.

Schmid addresses controversial topics head-on, including allocation policies, the secondary market, and accusations of bundling. He explains that the brand actively monitors the secondary market to identify flippers, with customers often reporting resold limited editions. He defends the need to build relationships before accessing highly sought-after pieces like the Datograph or Odysseus in titanium, emphasizing that the brand's limited production makes careful allocation essential. The CEO also discusses the use of Honey Gold, the challenges of producing haute complications like the new Zeitwerk Minute Repeater, and hints at significant plans for the brand's 30th anniversary next year. Throughout, Schmid emphasizes Lange's commitment to innovation without losing their identity, maintaining standards of hand-finishing and adjustment that make industrial-scale production impossible.

Transcript

Speaker
Ben Clymer Okay, I'm gonna time this with my ooh la la. Yeah. See? That's it. That's right. Worth the price of admission then. Um guys, welcome to another episode of Ben Climber Presents. Today we are presenting the Langa episode. With me today, we have uh the CEO of A Lange and Zone, Wilhelm Schmidt, a longtime friend of mine and friend of the show. You haven't been on any of our publications or podcasts in quite some time. I think five years plus. It's five years plus probably, yes
Wilhelm Schmid . And a lot has changed in five years. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. I mean we changed permanently, but I think the last five years we've probably changed even more than ever before
Ben Clymer . Yeah. So I I think for for the newer listeners of which there are many, you know, a lot of people are still discovering Hodinky and watches in general, maybe give a little bit of background on your tenure with the brand. Yeah. And then also have how things changed during your your your your reign. Look, uh I I ar
Wilhelm Schmid rived in 2010 and I opened the second boutique uh in 2011 in all the second boutique period. Period. Right. So and then we opened once in a while a boutique, but not many. Um in those days it was predominantly um press media, you know, it was magazines, it was newspaper, it was not so much digital, right? Because we always think digital has been around for so long. Factually, you know, back in twenty eleven, twenty twelve, the majority of the interviews I gave were with journalists at producing print magazines. Right. Um and they they would take six weeks to get get to print or longer. It's it's remember that's why we had the pre-SIH. So you always launch the launch watch let's say in December so that when the main event which, usually took place in January, came up, that you could occupy um some space in magazines. I mean that's all obsolete today, obviously. Sure. Um so a lot of things have changed, but then you know came China and Hong Kong and our big development in Asia. So the brand became more global. I had done very strong years. Um, but then eventually, you know, and I think the data grave lumen or the launch of the datagraph lumen was sort of the tipping point where we decided we need to understand who is buying our watches. And so what does that mean exactly? You know, our business model was from the beginning geared up to to work through retail partners. So you sell the watch to a retailer who is then selling it to whoever he wants or will sell it to
Ben Clymer . Right. And this is just for total clarification, this is multi-brand stores, traditional wholesale margin. Absolutely. Abs
Wilhelm Schmid olutely. Absolutely. So it was like it was successful business model, don't get me wrong, but uh we saw over time that you know we lose one important fact. We didn't know who our customer is at the end. Which for a brand that can only produce five and a half thousand watches a year, I think is very important. And on top of that, we believe that we're probably in a very unique position because we are a global brand. You know, we have a proper backbone. We have a lot of people that work for us, um, and only five and a half thousand watches, and probably less customers a year, because most of our customers they buy more than one watch, and we could never properly uh utilized that situation only as we started as we s changed to really get to know our customers that's that's where we realize that's
Ben Clymer a game changer for us. Right. And for for additional context, so Lange makes around we'll say five thousand watches per year. Yes. AP would be at fifty, sixty thousand? You would know better than I. Something in that range, right? I would say fifty thousand. Patek would be north north of that, I think if you include all of the collection, I think they said seventy the other day, but uh the changes be it sixty five or seventy, I don't know, but a lot more than many times what and Vashron would also be in the I don't know, thirty to fifty thousand
Wilhelm Schmid . You know it's it's it's it's in a way it's a very unique you know from a lot of things we do you would expect that from the independence you know the finishing the hand uh assembly and not even the movements are not designed to work with machines or with unskilled people. Right. Because you know, if they come, if they go through our process, it's the watchmaker that will set all the tolerances, you know, make all the adjustments. To make it perfect, and you just push the button on your chronograph, you know, they they always have that exact feeling. It's not too hard, it's not too soft. And they're all the same.. Right And this is down to the watchmaker. It's not that we could construct and then produce parts that when you assemble them, they will give you that feeling. That's really down to the watchmaker who will adjust it so that it's really the
Ben Clymer typical lange click on a chronograph. Right. And I I think you know again like the the the context that some of our viewers may have that that and some may not is that I think Lange historically, for as long as you've been around, has has been this kind of um almost jewel within the Richemont group, at least from my perspective, which is that you know Richmond is a giant publicly traded company that owns the likes of Cartier. I mean, just enormous, powerful brands. And Lange exists as you said as almost kind of an independent, I won't speak to corporate governance, but like in in my from a brand perspective, exists as an independently run, independent style of business that is more akin to uh Max Booster and Company or uh Acrivia or something that is really making artisanal style watches. A, how does that happen within a company such as Reishmont? And you can defer that question or not. Uh and then B, you know, how has things how have things changed for you? Because Lange was always loved by people like me and Jesper Bruner and Wei Co. and guys that like, you know, are really part of this industry because we see it all, we know how dramatically different your manufacturing is versus your peers. But how has the uh embrace of the general public changed the brand and how you treat customers and how uh and how you view the the world. So first things first, how how does Lange exist within such a large company the way that it does? I I I well
Wilhelm Schmid first of all we have a privilege because we're not in Switzerland. We're in Germany and there's no direct flight from Geneva to Dresde.. That's by design That's you know, I always ask when you and Rupert asked me, said please keep that. Yeah. No, it it it's it's it's it gives you a certain freedom because there's nobody that's looking over your shoulder all the time. Don't get me wrong. You know, it doesn't matter whether you belong to a group or whether you're independent, you have to deliver. But what I appreciate is, you know, things like IT structure, office buildings, logistic, you know, very expensive small little parts that go around the world, all that is, you know, with the big Griechemon group. And of course they can afford experts in logistics, in IP, and in security that we would be unable to afford as a company on its own. So and I don't need to it doesn't steal time of my calendar. So that's that's the great part of Richemont. So I think they give us the freedom and and I believe we fight for the freedom. But it's a it's a very good environment for us to focus on what we really're good in, that is developing and manufacturing and selling our beautiful watches. I think at the moment, or for the last three to five years, something has happened that gives us now the recognition that we in my humble opinion always had deserved, but sometimes were not given. And what do you think it was that changed? It is the direct to the customer. you I knowf if you all these stories are really being explained, being told, if you know who you deal with and if you if you f help that also to create an organization that is geared up to deal with these customers, that gives a momentum. And again, that's what I described that unique position. We are big enough to can that we can afford it globally, but we're small enough so that we really get to know each and every customer by name. And every customer has an entrance into our community or into our company. I think that's a that's a position you cannot generate if you produce 10,000 fifteen, twenty thousand or above watches. You can only have that with a lower number, but if you produce a lot less, then you don't have the logistic, you don't have the infrastructure, you don't have the organization to cater for it. That's why I believe we have a fairly unique position within the
Ben Clymer watch cosmos. Yeah. And I I would say, you know, from my perspective, there there are two kind of salient trends with Langa over the past, we'll say three to five years. One of them I would say is very good. The other one I would say is open to interpretation. So the first is that secondary market price for Langas has exploded, some of which, some models now trade above retail. The standard kind of bread and butter stuff trades at about retail, which historically is was not necessarily the case. And I think, you know, this is something that I don't think you'd be surprised to learn. Has been something that we've seen in the comments on our site a lot over the years, which is that with the change from wholesale network into owned retail, basically, that a lot of people are kind of forced to start over and say, well, you know, I bought all these watches from I'll say, you know, Shrevan Company or or uh Sh um Cellini. Cellini or some of these great retailers that that you guys have been with for many years. And then when you walk into Madison Avenue, you say, well, you know, that that purchase history doesn't apply here, potentially. Um, I mean, how how do you how do you how has the secondary market thing changed? And then also how do you respond to people that say, hey, that doesn't make sense to me on the retail side?'
Wilhelm Schmid s It it's it's you know, I strongly believe uh the secondary market is just the result of what you do in the new watch market. Right. If you if you don't perform as a new watch, you don't perform in a secondary market. Or much later. You know, some of the really, really hard to get pieces today, they were no best seller when they were new, you know, like a a yellow jacket, a data grave, and yellow gold with a black dial. I think we produced very few because nobody wanted them. Today they're very rare and everybody looks for it. But that's a different story. But generally speaking, you don't have your first your new watch market under control. You will have to consequences almost immediately in the secondary market. Right. So do I and because we have the first market under control, it does have that positive impact on the secondary market, which is great, even for all the customers that now blame us for doing what we are doing. Because if they have bought their watches, at least they know by now they haven't lost money, factually they probably gained money. Good news is most of our customers don't sell their watches. So it's not their prime uh purchasing uh reason to buy a watch because I think it's gonna gain in value. Yeah. But it's nice to know, isn't it? That just gives you a good feeling. Yeah. Um the challenge today is because there are so many watches that are in short supply and they go above retail, it also attracts people that are not passionate about what we do, they just see it as a profit opportunity. Now, every boutique and we as a company now have to identify the guy that is the lady's not coming looking for that watch. Is she passionate? Is that the beginning of a journey? Is that somebody that will keep the watch forever? Or is that exactly the opposite? Somebody that tries to take us for a ride, gets the watch tomorrow, and the next day we find it somewhere in the digital world. Now, how do you how do you find out? And trust me, I could write a book about the stories that people come up with to get certain watches. I'm sure. Um, but we have to treat everybody fair and equally, and even I know that if you don't get the watch you don't feel treated fair unequally but I can assure you regardless where you go you will have the same situation so in this regard it is fair and equal. And for the boutique people to decide, you know, you have to start a relationship. Right. And unfortunately the relationship doesn't start with an odysseys in titanium. I as if you really want it, I understand that it's a very, very admired watch, but that's for the people that we know and worked with for a long time and know that they're gonna keep the watch. So that that's the only answer. If somebody comes up with a better system that I can apply globally, that I can compliantly apply globally, where you know nobody in a boutique is able to make shortcuts and all that, I'm happy to listen. We so far can just assure you it worked for our customers. We deal with those that are unhappy to the extent you can deal with them. Right. But we also have to accept that every massive change in a business model, you may lose some customers. So you really view this as a change in a business model, the move from wholesale to retail it is it is it is it is because you know if you look at the a multi-franchise retailer um he will look at a customer from a different perspective yeah you will sell watches to him, you will sell jewelry to his wife, you will sell the wedding uh gifts for for the children. And so they see it differently. And if the one brand is over, they will move him to the next brand. It's a different way. And if the if if the attachment is strong to the retailer, that's where we usually lose this customer. Because he was not really linked to the brand, he was linked to the wholesaler, to the retailerer, which is a diffent story, regretfully, but you know, there's nothing you can do. You cannot make an omelet without destroying a few eggs. Um and and I don't like it, and I wish we we we couldn't, and we try hard to rectify the situation, but there's a limit to
Ben Clymer to what we can do. Yeah. And I I think we we we we've seen from brands such as Lange, but also AP, Pat Tech, you know, the the the good brands, like the brands that we all really admire, a a massive shrinking in distribution points. Is is that accurate for for you guys as well? Look
Wilhelm Schmid , we we went down as I arrived, I think the the highest we ever had was about two hundred and sixty point of sales. For the world. For the world. Always talk global, that makes it easier. Um I think we're gonna finish the year by fifty-eight, fifty. Yeah. So we'll say twenty-five percent of what you did before. Yeah, yeah. They're all boutiques by now. And we wanna shrink further down to the extent that if you enter a shop, they have at least some sort of representation of the watches there. And to do that, you cannot sort of have too many point of sales because then you have a point of sale with three watches. I mean you go there as a collector and you look at three watches and think yeah and and and all the rest, but we cannot maintain a stock level that would give you a good representation when you enter a shop, when we have a hundred points of sales. It's simply impossible because then we would sell even less watches because most of the watches would be on stock somewhere. So when we find that balance so that we have enough point of sales to maintain a certain proximity to our customers, which I understand is a challenge. A physical proximity. A physical pro I mean we we now have eight point of sales in America. So from Southern America to Canada. And remember in the old days we had about five point of sales in New York alone. Now it's one. So yes. So on the one hand you want to create proximity, on the other hand, you want to have a good representation, you know, which which good people, which train people, you know, we are dedicated people, and they're there for a long time. That's the balance band. That's that's where we where we made sometimes decisions that are not accepted by by by certain customers. I understand their reasons. I just hope that interviews like that help them to understand the reasoning um f from from our pers
Ben Clymer pective. And so so if if I'm a a new new reader of Hodinki or a new Lange fan, et cetera, I I walk into the the new store on Nason, which is beautiful, and say, hey uh I've got you know I'm a younger guy or gal I've got a little bit of money in my pocket and I want to buy uh manga one on eighteen fifteen or you know so I I don't want to call them entry level entry level for you yeah um are those watches available are they in the store for we we
Wilhelm Schmid we we try hard to make them available it doesn't work all the time but actually that's why we shifted production um and you know for me it's almost i it's it's it's it's vital that if you enter an Alange und Söhner Boutique that at least you see Alange one. Hopefully more than one. Right. So that that for me I think it is important But we have a very clear idea to have certain watches available at every boutique. That's why we go further down. Got it. So when you say uh available to see, do you mean to purchase? Sometimes to purchase, always to see. That's that's the idea. Okay. If uh it's not available it shouldn't be a waiting time of three years or something like that. So then it should be available within let's say six months. For for a normal
Ben Clymer kind of production piece. Got it. Yes. And then where does I mean we'll go to the the i the iconic data graph, which we've got some anniversaries coming and you know the watch that really m in many ways made your your brand what it is. Where does that now, the platinum data graph the just the updown where does that exist is that an application piece oh yeah definitely it is
Wilhelm Schmid yeah yeah and a funny thing is um if you see at the um secondary market ever we tightened the market, we say who's buying that watch and is that really a good customer? It's increasing in resale value, a data graph first generation today is twice the price it was five years ago. I know. Um a datograph up and down, close to retail. Right. If you get one good condition, box and papers, that's retail. Right. So you know that's that's the flip side of that coin. And let me also say one thing because I I'm reading these comments as well. Bundling. That's what they say, huh? Which is stupid. I mean if you don't have watches, why should why would we why would we sell you something which is not available to make you buying something which is also not available? That doesn't make sense. But you have to start a history somewhere. Right. And if you buy a more I mean the longer one is around now for twenty nine years. Next year, twenty fourth of October, thirty years. Right. It's still our best seller. It's a great watch that appreciated in value. It's epitomizes everything we stand for. Why should I force somebody to buy that to get another watch? You know, that's a stupid unless we had excess stock, which you all know we don't have. So that's my answer to bundling. But you know, you cannot start a relationship without some serious try from both sides
Ben Clymer . Right. And so explain that a little bit further. So if somebody wanted to buy a datagraph, we'll say just a platinum up down. Yeah. What would a what would an ideal transaction history look like to get to that point? I don't think there is an ide
Wilhelm Schmid al transaction. A walk-in, um, and then you stay in contact, you just you build a relationship with somebody in the boutique basically. That's it. And he or she will then say, look, I I think that person is trustworthy, has applied for XY uh watch and we think she's good or he's good yeah and then we will allocate. We observe the market permanently. So if a watch is um on the market. We will find out who sold it. You will.
Ben Clymer Who put it on the market, yes. And I don't want to r reveal your secrets explicitly, but maybe I do a little bit. How do you know? I mean if if a watch is on Chrono twenty four or some dealer Yeah, made
Wilhelm Schmid by hand, Ben. There's no watch exactly like all the others. Right
Ben Clymer . And so I I guess a question that I've come up with, I've asked myself many times, is look, I mean that, nobody has endless money, or at least nobody in this room, I'll speak for myself anyway. If if I say, hey, I want to sell my data graph, if I had one, uh, because my kids have to go to college or something that makes a lot of sense. And don't get me wrong. If if that happens after f
Wilhelm Schmid ive years, we don't care. It's five years. Yeah. Well it if it's three years or if you are in a in a situation where you say the I mean and again that's why you build up a relationship with somebody. So if you are in an emergency situation, I would just recommend to call them, say look guys, I'm really in trouble. And we had a great collector in Hong Kong who was buying all our watches and then gave me a call and said, Wilhelm, that was when Hong Kong went down. I said, I need to sell basically everything to make my company surviving. And I said, I who am I to right. You may remember there was a big auction in uh Hong Kong when a lot of great watchers went. And you came back two years and said, My company is safe again, I have money again. Yeah. Can we restart? And I said, Of course you played it fair, that's absolutely okay. Right. Um, but that's why you build a relationship. In this case, I had that relationship with the guy. But if you work in a boutique, you have a relationship with somebody there. And if you explain it, and and don't get me wrong, your property, your you can do with it whatever you want, you can sell it, you can gift it, whatever. But if you want to maintain the relationship is a lot better than you know if if you if you want to go back later on that you you maintain that. So it really is about the transparency in the relationship. I guess so, yes. What we don't want is, and and and and with all due respect, we don't want people that buy a watch a limited edition because basically all the limited edition go over and above retail. Right. I don't want to give a limited edition to somebody who is six months down the road. And remember when we start the distribution, it usually takes three years before we deliver the last piece because it takes us three years to produce for for a limited edition. The ones you wear took us three years to produce to the last one. So now there's usually a lot more people that want it. We make then the decision who will get it. If then one of them just pulls out and gives it to the grey market, a lot of people that didn't get the watch in the first place will come to us and say, I mean, your system is not really great because I can see the watch in the gray market. Why could I mean I'm a great customer. I would have never sold it. Why did you not allocate it to me in the first place? A lot of customers, good customers that couldn't get it in the first place blame us and say rightfully, you know, you don't do your job properly. Right. And what what's your response to them? I say we don't do the job properly, but there was no second chance for that. Very easy. Yeah. You know, that's all I can say because we didn't do the job properly. We didn't give it to the person that at least made the effort to wear it for a while and appreciate it. For a profit profit. R
Ben Clymer ight. Right. I mean th that that must be a a totally new part of the job, so to speak, over the past five years Well and and it has to be a global job. You
Wilhelm Schmid know, it's I can't do that. It's all everybody in the boutique. They are it's their responsibility to find it out. Right
Ben Clymer . And i I'm just curious how this works. So, how I mean, let's say it's uh one of these 1815 split in honey gold or the the new Lumen network in Honey Gold, which I think is probably one of the hotter models out there right now. I've seen a few on the market. Um, whose job is it internally to say, hey, that watch was allocated to Will Holloway, that guy's screwed, he'll never get another one. Was it you, Will? Yeah. Yeah, exact
Wilhelm Schmid ly. No, very easy. First of all, um even if we don't see it, our customers gonna see it. No doubt. You know that's a that's a community, and they observe the market permanently and they will usually report it immediately. So he's not even that we need to look at it permanently, which we do, but even if it slips through our radar, it won't slip through the radar of our customers. And when
Ben Clymer you say reported, does that mean somebody texting it to somebody boutique or to you or something. Yes, to the boutique and
Wilhelm Schmid say, look guys that watches in the shop. Yeah. And then, you know, we will get photos and the rest is history. And then that person is let me put it this way, um the next limited edition will probably not go to that wrist. Got it
Ben Clymer . Got it. And so in terms of all the limited editions that that have come out over the past few years, I again I think you're right, probably starting with the datagraph Lumen. That to me was the first one that was really I mean really the wor
Wilhelm Schmid ld exploded. I think all the limited we were always good with limited editions, even at auctions, you know. I mean from from the early beginning throughout there's hardly any limited edition that today you can get below retail. Um and most of them actually have appreciated a lot over the last ever, but the last five years I think they got an additional boost. What was less usual is that normal standard watches did not depreciate. Yeah. And today they don't depreciate. So that's that's that's that's that for me is a real success. And that means we find the right customers because otherwise all these watches would go back to gray market. Right. You know, uh if if the number outstripped demand, the market will react, prices will go down, right, and that will have an impact on the so it's it's it's always the same vicious circle. That's why I say the bundling, you know, we can't see it because the number of watches in uh all these chrono twenty four that's going down, not up. So if it's true what we sometimes get blamed for, a lot of these watches should show up in the gray market and they don't. Right. So that means you're doing your job. Not me, but you know, the organization and the rules that we apply and the the compliance that we put behind it um is pretty clear. Yeah
Ben Clymer . Okay. So let's talk a little bit about product. Yes, please. Which is what we're here for. Yeah, watch. So the Odysseus Titanium. Yep. The 1815 split. Yeah. Which I'm a proud owner of. Uh the Lumen site work. Yeah. Um, what is your favorite of all the limited editions? What is the one that you've gotten the most requests for? And what do you think will be the the one that people look back on and say that's kind of the classic of this Look, it's it's hard to beat the lumen
Wilhelm Schmid . It's only the handwerkskunst probably can do that, and they are even rarer. Right. Um for me, more important is which which normal watch leaves a stamp. And I think the um sidewag date will do that, because that's a watch which sort of hits a sweet spot. In what sense? Um a lot of people like me, you know, they like to see on a watch proper time and a date. And that does it in a very, very nice way. I think the Odysseus chronograph for sure will leave a mark because it's you know like 1999 where we launched a datograph. That's the first time that we launch an automatic chronograph movement designed only to cater for your doce chronograph. Can't use that movement in any other watch um family. So that makes it quite exclusive and special. But you know, if you go through the number of watches and sometimes even I get confused because I think Jesus we launched it this year, yes, and this year as well. Yeah. It's we've never even through COVID times we stopped our launch rhythm. Uh which is very important for us because that keeps everybody within the company up on their heels. Um and I remember April 2020, where Tony came to me and said we have a real problem because for the the 24th of October we wanted to come up with the 175th anniversary set. He said we won't get a dial for the topograph, because you know, they shut down all the suppliers. Um and then two weeks later he came with a big smile and said, We do it ourselves and we find a way to do it. And out came this beautiful dial, you know, with three-dimensional engraving, tremblage, and all that. And we learned the newest thing. So that for me is almost more important than launching a new watch. When we gained the competence for what reason soever that we never had before. The watch we launched today, that sidewalk minute repeater, how do you make it that the rhythm is the same? But if you put all three watches next to each other, the sound is different. Um remember Glass Hütte never had a strong history with minute repeater. That is something which we really developed from scratch and knew, but we could not rely on anything they did in pocket watches in the past. Right
Ben Clymer . It is, it is, it is, absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about the the miner repeater. So today, uh this will air shortly thereafter, but today you guys released the Honey Gold mini repeater in 30 pieces. And so what what is it? You guys are using Honey Gold a little bit more now, which is a favorite of mine. What what does Honey Gold mean to you? How do you choose where to use it? And then what's the the the point, so to speak, of of the release thing. Yeah. We haven't used
Wilhelm Schmid it a lot more because these are only thirty watches. There's a good reason for it. It's a great material because it's harder than normal gold. Unfortunately, it comes with the same disadvantage that you have with platinum watches. It eats tools because very hard to machine. And then on top of that, you know, in the after sales process, when you want the case refurbished by us, we do not polish. We first close all the dens and ditches, and then we just polish away what we put on too much of the material. That's already hard work with normal watches. With honey gold, it has to done in an oxygen-free atmosphere. Because of the material, it will react. So that's a lot harder, and that's the automatic restriction for us to only use it for limited editions. And this way, and what we launched today, Tony wanted to have it. Tony said, I want to hear how the sound is in Honey Gold. That's how simple it is. So that's why we said, okay, then let's let's do one in honey gold. After the platinum is sold out, the white gold is sold out. Now, also from a watchmaking capacity point of view, they are really difficult to assemble. The sidewag already is a is not a watch. It's really for watchmaker. That's a it's a peak level. And if you now put one on top of it, which is the minute repeater, uh, once they understand the movement, you want you want to keep them busy. Right. You know, otherwise they lose efficiency. And if we then give them to another watch and then we bring them back, that's a hard process. Ye
Ben Clymer ah. So the the the the zeitwork, I I think in many ways represents kind of langa. I mean it's it's like so resolutely you guys. Is is there something that comes next with Zeitwork, or is this are we we pretty happy with the set of complications we we have right now? I was pretty happy at the
Wilhelm Schmid moment to share that with you. You have a certain capacity and not only a total capacity, then you have a capacity in certain complexity. So you don't have a watchmaker that can work on all watches. You have watchmaker that can work on certain watches. As I said, sidewalk is quite a beast. It's the same with chronograph and ratraprons in particular. And it takes time to build new talent into that. Now with five watches in production, you know we we you bring the next one, but you can't supply the other ones. So it doesn't make sense right now. And on top of that, you know, with now the minute repeater, we launch basically a zeitwerk I would say every eighteen month. So for the time being that's um we don't wanna overcook the production. cut
Ben Clymer it And so so next year is is a big year. Indeed it is. And so how I'm sure you can't give away any trade secrets just Yeah we'll not. So I mean how how do you guys again I I think I I know a lot of our readers and and viewers know this, but like you guys are a very young brand. So how how would one expect you guys to celebrate your 30th birthday
Wilhelm Schmid ? You know, the problem is to answer that question without taking away what we come up next year with is very difficult. Um is a great advantage to be a young company. Right because it means there are plenty of uncharted territories. There's so much we can do. It's the time, it's the capacity, it's the capacity in development that restricts us. It's not ideas that we have or executions that we have that restrict us. We have watches ready developed in a drawer because we don't have the capacity right now to produce that. And that means we have to be careful. We also don't want to over celebrate anniversary because otherwise you become an anniversary brand. Um there was no anniversary this year and there's no anniversary after next year. So we always give it a breathing time to to not overwhelm customers. But it's a challenge, you know, how do you develop yourself without losing yourself? I think that we saw a lot of brands recently, because markets getting tougher, they start to do a bit here and a bit there and a bit this and a bit that. Eventually you're gonna lose yourself. So how do you stay innovative without losing yours
Ben Clymer elf? So no no hints for next year then. Is that what that is that what you're trying to say? No. Yeah. Can we see something? Is is next year, if you can share, more of a Halo product year, like kind of a big, big bang, not an actual big bang. Is that every year? I suppose it is. I suppose it is. So I can always f
Wilhelm Schmid airly say without taking away anything it'll be a halo year because that's every year. Look, I mean that's why this year we we we said we only come with a Odysseus chronograph, no other watch, because you know what you put next to it will well will either be not recognized or you can't produce it anyhow. So that's more to determine. But trust me, breast issued, we do not go to watches in one nurse with a MIDI or
Ben Clymer cover watch. Okay, understood. And then finally, if if you could, uh it obviously you're you're the the CEO of a highly regarded brand. What other brand out there would you wear on the weekends? Or what other brand out there do you have a lot of respect for and and and why? Uh there's a lot of compan
Wilhelm Schmid ies that I have a lot of respect for for very different reasons. Um you know in and I'm a watch collector. If I can for a moment take off the CEO hat and just look at collecting watches. There are some great watches out there from the independent there's no question it's it's the one thing that immediately resonates with me unfortunately um so that's some great watches you just did a great interview with uh Mr. Arno and Rexy, and I think that's that's a great watchmaker and I love the watches. Yeah. I love some vacherons. I used to collect a Géger les Coultre. Um I still have quite a few of them in my safe. Um I admit I also have two Rolex. Uh which ones? It's a Mil Gauss with uh the orange dial because I just I thought it's so much not Rolex that I had to have it. Sure. And uh as they came out with uh the deep say uh sea dweller, yeah, two thousand meters deep. I think you know never go that deep, but yeah, somehow I had to have the watch and it's still in my safe. Um I like Automat Piqué. I said it on stage so I can repeat it here. Um I also
Ben Clymer have some of them. Yeah. Um You you famously in Our Little World shared a stage with Francois at at our tenth anniversary. Uh and in in many ways you guys you guys and your brands could not be more different. And yet you guys are are friends. Yeah, look it's it's because we
Wilhelm Schmid we respect each other and I think there's a lot of respect what you did. Always loved the Royal Oak. Yeah. There are watches that I like and I don't like and sometimes the same brand. So there's it's not usually I would rather go to what I like on a watch and not on a brand because I've never bought because of a brand. I always bought because I thought like that's a great design. That's that's something unique, that's something which suits me. That's why I bought it, irrespective of which brand it would it it would carry. And what watch are you wearing today and what watch are you wearing the most these da
Ben Clymer ys? Um I I'm wearing the
Wilhelm Schmid the one that we launched about four weeks ago, six weeks ago, uh at that watches and wonders in Shanghai. So it's Lange One perpetual platinum with a black dial. That's again, it's a very nice watch because you it it just feels good. I like platinum, I have to say. Sure. Who does it? I like I like weight around my wrists. Yeah, um, and and that gives the weight. I like if I can read the date. You know, that there's an advantage for me. That one has the date plus. No, it's it's it's a lovely watch. Um today if I go to my house in South Africa, I usually have an addiction around my my wrist. In steel? No, in white gold. I'm sorry, I'm not a steel person. Yeah. I love the white gold with a rubber strap. And I usually carry a leather strap as well because it's so easy and quick to change. And then you have two watches which which which do the job for me at least. And I like I personally like the white gold the most of all the iterations that even above the titanium. Yes. Which is like the watch, right? That's the hardest to get. It's it's again I'm not you know, the hardest to get is not the factor for me. I I'd like, you know, who am I? Right. And and I I'm actually the white gold gray dial uh brown leather strap or I even have a brown rubber strap. Tony gave that to me. I just love that combination.
Ben Clymer Yeah. Cool. And last question I would say, if if there's a a young viewer out there that wants to get into Lana, the best way is obviously going to boutique. What is the first watch you would recommend? Uh depends a bit on
Wilhelm Schmid the budget, quite frankly. Um there's Sa axonia thin still, which you know does everything Lange stands for. People don't understand it. You know, it's the same quality, it's the same decoration, um, it's the it's the double assembly, whatever you know from us which we do for the high complications we do for that watch as well. eighteen fifteen up and down. That's a it's a beautiful, you know, watch that you can wear today and you probably can wear it in thirty years. It will never go out of fashion. Probably it was never in fashion, which is great. And if you have the funds, go for a Langer One. I think you that's the you can you can't go wrong on a Langer One. You heard it guys. You can't go wrong
Ben Clymer with a Langer One. Don't you forget? Uh Wilhelm, thank you as always for being here and uh hope to see you again soon. Hopefully, Ben. Hopefully. Thanks. Cheers.