Skip to content

Day 2 – W&W 2023 – Day 2 – Grand Seiko, Oris, JLC, IWC, and the Wildest New Rolex Ben and James Have Ever Seen

Published on Tue, 28 Mar 2023 21:26:53 +0000

Episode 2 has the new fellas talking about Grand Seiko, JLC, and Oris while our CEO unveils a hidden talent and Ben and James share a truly special off-catalog moment from their meeting with Rolex.

Synopsis

This is the second daily episode of Hodinkee Radio from Watches and Wonders 2023 in Geneva. Host James Stacy is joined by team members Mark, Brandon, Tony, and Ben to discuss their experiences at the watch fair. The crew is running on minimal sleep but remains energized by the overwhelming amount of content and watches they're experiencing.

The episode's highlight centers on an exclusive Rolex meeting where James and Ben witnessed extraordinary off-catalog pieces, including a ruby-encrusted Daytona priced at $440,000 and an unprecedented Sea-Dweller completely covered in diamonds on every surface imaginable—from the case back to the bracelet sides. The team also discusses the new titanium Rolex Yacht-Master and various Tudor releases, including the well-received Black Bay 54 and a white-dial GMT that distinguishes itself from Rolex's shadow.

Additional coverage includes Grand Seiko's new chronograph (the "Tentagraph") and a stunning rose gold dress watch, the playful Oris Kermit collaboration featuring the beloved Muppet character, Jaeger-LeCoultre's Reverso collection including a new chronograph model, and IWC's reintroduced Ingenieur line. Mark shares his special visit to MB&F's new "Madhouse" workshop space, where he had unprecedented access to photograph their extraordinary timepieces. Throughout the episode, the team discusses pricing strategies, market positioning, and the balance between serious horology and fun, whimsical designs that remind collectors why they fell in love with watches in the first place.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacy Do do do do do do do do do guys that's on mic, so that's that's how we that's how we're starting the episode. Uh this is Hodinky Radio Day two from Watches and Wonders twenty twenty three. I am your host, James Stacy. And I've we've got a cast and crew here that's a little bit more than the microphones that I brought or or that my recorder can handle. But I I'm really thrilled for it, so I'll I'll kick off from my left. Mark. How's it going? Living the dream, man. This is uh this is really exciting. First watches and wonders. That's fantastic. I I can't wait to dig into that experience. Next up, we've got Brandon also here. Yo, what's going on, everyone? Not too much, my man. Nice to see you. Next up, we've got Tony. Hey James, thanks for having me on the show. Oh, an absolute pleasure. And finally, we've got a reprisal of Ben from yesterday. Ben, how are we doing? I'm good, man. How you doing? Not too bad, man. We saw some crazy stuff today. So I'm glad that you're going to actually I just kind of like butted my way into this episode just because we saw some crazy stuff today. Yeah, and I feel like I I've said crazy stuff before. Yeah. I saw something today I one will never see again. Correct. And two had no earthly right to see in the first place. Can confirm you did not deserve to be in that room for sure. Yeah, I we we saw some wild, wild stuff. So uh look, we're gonna get to that in a minute. That's a little bit of a teaser. Uh I do want to chat to these guys, the three new fellows. Uh how's the show going? How how we how are we starting out? We're what, uh, we'll call it two days in. It's the roughly the end of the second day. You guys sleeping much? I was so You're getting the you know, like the amount your doctor says it's like three to three and a half hours? Yeah, something
Mark like that. I'm I'm I'm suddenly on the the Logan Baker sleep schedule of like nowhere near three then. Um but no, I mean I I got my work done last night and then I was completely exhausted, but for some reason my brain just wouldn't shut down. Oh sure. Uh it was just there was so much going. So I think I fell asleep maybe two forty five and then woke up at six to get in line for for an hour in the security line. I mean it's great with something else this mor It's it's been bonkers and I I like I didn't know what to expect and in some ways I'm really happy because the amount of uh amount of work uh like is really high, but it's manageable, more manageable than I thought. And then at the same time I feel like I'm just completely overloaded. It's it's a weird dichot
James Stacy omy for me. I've done this um if you if you count shows separately, this is probably like my thir twelfth or thirteenth uh fair and that's how they all feel. So you're doing just fine. Don't worry about it. Stay in the mix, uh keep your head up. Yeah, get your get a couple hours of sleep. And Brandon, how are you doing? I'm alive. I'm alive. You've been carrying a camera. Brandon, Brandon's our our video guy and he's doing some really incredible stuff and you're shooting for kind of a larger project that people will see after the sho
Brandon w. Yeah, so I'm recording a lot throughout the show, some behind the scenes stuff. Just me walking around and it'll be sort of a vlog at the end. I'm shooting a little bit of stuff for social too. But the main objective is to have something maybe a few, maybe a week or so after the show, uh, just to show everyone what's kind of going on here and get them give them like a an inside look at what happens at Watches and Wonders. Sure, you're keeping your batteries charged? Yeah, all fifteen of them are charged. I'm I'm cycling through them faster than I ever have. It's my first time, so day one was I was like uh dear in the headlights, like what is going on? Uh day two, much more calm, still kind of wild, but but getting as much as I can. But yeah, it's a good time. I loved
Mark seeing Brandon at the end of the day yesterday. And I think we were both in the very same spot where it it just kind of looked like we were both like staring blankly off into the distance where I'd stare. Yeah, for sure. And it was just it was it was the best thing. It was like looking in a mirror in some ways. Yeah. And and I was like, oh, we're both in this in the same way together. Yeah.
James Stacy Yeah. I mean th there's a buzz, but uh as with any buzz, like you know, you you you you've gotta kinda kinda ride the wave there and that and that's how it can be, especially over a course of several days. And you know, to Mark's previous point, did you get stuck in the same security? So you have to go through security when you get here and if everybody shows up at the show roughly at the same time, you'll notice me, I book the schedule. I come later at the day. Two two st f
Mark ull stops on our bus route, our shuttle bus route, two were full up. People couldn't get on. Two like it was probably a a hunt a hundred people that got stuck at their hotels for our shuttle bus. People were sitting on the floor on our shuttle bus. That's how crammed it was to get in at eight AM I I
James Stacy feel like the economy of scale on on uh on public transport really doesn't require anyone to sit down. You're probably better outstanding, but you know, fair enough. Tony, how about you where you weren't the one sitting, I supp I suppose.
Tony Luckily my hotel is right across from the Palexpo here, but it kind of reminds me of Vegas, to be honest with you, in a way. Like I haven't seen the sun in two days now. Um just breathing this filtered air. The carpets around here, they're beigey, they're a little bit dirty, there's ostentatious displays of of luxury pretty much everywhere you look. Sit down anywhere and someone much more good looking than me, uh maybe not James Stacy is is there to serve me a an espresso and and whatever I want to eat. Um but it's it's wild. Yeah, I definitely have
James Stacy the the coffee taps by about midday. We're just tapping my feet or my fingers, something like that. You just kinda My legs haven't stopped moving since I sat down, James. Boffing and weaving the whole day. You guys are both doing that right now. That's why we're drinking champagne now. We're looking for some downers. Well look guys, I I'm thrilled to have you guys here this year and have you on the team and and definitely the work that's come out so far has been nothing short of impressive. I'm super pumped to see Brandon's final project uh in a little while after the show. Certainly stay tuned for that. And I I you know I guess you know we we buried the lead or teased it at the start, but it's probably time uh to chit-chat a little bit with Ben about some of this wild stuff we saw at Rolex today. So yeah. If you listen to yesterday's episode, the day one episode, Danny Malek, and Ben and and Ben and I had been at a Patek meeting, so we missed the Rolex meeting. We went in today's. Humble brag or was that just a brag? I was wearing a tie. There's my humble brag. Can confirm for myself. Uh but yeah, we we went to Rolex today. That's where where I started my day today. And you know, there was a couple from yesterday that I was excited to see. I really um mentally didn't understand the sort of puzzle watch. Yes. And the the balloon watch, and we've seen both of those. Yeah. And then what do you think? I I can see why people are gonna go nuts for them because the execution of the bright colors and the the functionality and the kind of whimsy of it. Yeah. Is a nice antidote to how serious watches can be at
Ben times. Yeah. I mean we're we'll we'll get into the the off catalog stuff imminently, but I would say that now that I've seen the the emoji watch, I guess what we're calling it. Oh good one, yeah, yeah. I predict four times retail immediately what they'll trade for. I mean it's just it's bananas. And
James Stacy the the the balloon one or the bubble one, sorry, is like normal OP price. It's an OP. Yeah. That's going to be an ungettable watch. Like anyone who likes their watches colorful, like you know, I'm I'm I'm wearing a pellicose. Like clearly I'm a little bit afraid of a of a really brightly colored, especially watch with a bunch of color on it. But I think if you're a color nerd and and maybe you got an you've got an orange OP and that's not or the yellow uh OP and that's not quite enough, that would be the next the next move if you could score one. Solid price point, the rest of it. Got to see the solid gold GMT, which is an absolute heartbreaker. It's a killer. Total stud. Yeah. Yeah. Really like it. Definitely makes me feel better about myself when it's on my wrist, which is you know, that's all I can ask for from a watch, really. Yep. And then while we were standing there or sit sitting there at at the meeting they brought in some cases and said very you know no no photos moving moving on they really meant that yeah yeah no iPhone photos no no like photos for friends or anything like that nothing at all and I was I'd seen some leaks uh on on Instagram of of some of the off catalog stuff
Mark . Five hundred pixel wide you know screenshots of seventeen watches or something where you couldn't really tell what they were, but just enough to get you excited.
James Stacy So we know what they are now. Oh, and then some. And then some. Yeah, and then some. So uh obviously I think the one that I caught because of Mark was this uh Ruby Daytona
Mark . I'm so jealous that you got to see that. I mean I totally get the whole rainbow thing. I understood what you know the the John Mayer talking watches thing, like it's you're not a not that guy until you put one on and then you're you're you're that guy. You're absolutely that guy, yeah. And that's what got me like interested in the gem set stuff and I started to be able to understand that. But I don't think really anything has captivated my attention as much as that really low resolution picture of that Ruby Daytona and uh it's it's a bummer that I wasn't in that room. That is a bummer for for you, yeah. Gonna go home and cry about it. Yeah. It
James Stacy gets way it gets way nuttier, but we'll let let's start there. So that's a a a modern issue Daytona.. Platinum I think it's platinum. P
Ben latinum or white gold, I forget. I believe it's platinum. Yeah. And it's seven fifty. Yeah. Ruby and uh sapphire, I believe
James Stacy . Uh how would you describe the colorway? Uh like like a dark, very rich crimson sort of red. Yeah. Black dial, kind of a standard dial, but with red accents. Yep. And then uh gem set indices. Right. And then along kind of like on the on the rainbow, along the kind of curvature of the crown guards. Yeah. That's Pave. Right. Uh really kind of just
Ben jaw dropping and somehow still sporty. Yeah. Still a Daytona. I mean, you know, n not to be crass about this, but like I've seen lots of lots and lots of modern Rolex. Uh I know how much the Rainbow Daytona was when it was when it was launched. It's about $106,000. $106,000 for the rainbow. Insane. Keep that in mind. You know how much this watch was? $440,000. Think about that. This is four Rainbow Daytonas. Uh just in terms of that's how Rolex values this watch. I mean, just bananas. That's the cost of I guess rubies. I guess
Mark . I mean, I don't know enough about it, but yeah. That's my question. Is that is that the cost that the market could bear? Is that like you isn't like the market this isn't market of one. This is a literal Veb one good like yeah. But that's that's what I'm wondering is like if you're if you're Rolex and you know you can you can print money with this thing. are A youre you doing that? Or is or is Rolex? Yeah, the R Role
Ben x Rolex is not greedy. And I and I really mean that. Like they are not greedy in that way. Like they they they have the integrity to say like this is what the market should be for a watch like this. And there's something about that watch that I'm sure is far more complex than anybody here could understand. Um but that was shockingly expensive for a retail, not retail, for a retail price of a Rolex. I mean, we because the next stage didn't even have a price tag on it. So then we saw something that truly didn't have a price tag on it. And then just to give context, James and I both held the watch we're about to discuss in our hands and we didn't know what model it was. It was like, is this a GMT or Submariner? I thought it was
James Stacy a GMT. So well let's walk you through so they opened the case and it's just all you can see is diamonds. Somebody thought it was a skydweller. I mean, first we were told it was a skydweller. But then there's no complication on the dial card. It's just diamonds. It was one giant diamond. They had Rolex printed on the underside of the crystal, no signature of the model. Yeah. But it's a date with a with a cyclops. It's very big. And I I go, oh, I I it might be an S D. Then we're like, oh, maybe it's a GMT, but there's no fourth hand, so it's not GMT. Bezel doesn't uh bezel turned only one way, so it was a dive watch of some sort. And then it it was after they took the thing away and they're like, oh, it was a sea dweller
Ben . It was a sea dweller. So this sea dweller was fully covered in diamonds in a way that I've never seen on any watch, including a Jacobin Co. It had diamonds on the case back, it had diamonds on the band, it had diamonds, I mean ev like the side of the links of the bracelet had diamonds on it
James Stacy . So I feel like pretty yeah, pretty much anybody listening will know the shape of a Rolex case back. It's it's a circle that meets at a higher circle, essentially. And the edge of that higher circle was wrapped in baguette diamonds. I've just never in my life seen anything like it. Nothing like an oyster bracelet. Yeah. Uh the sides of the bracelet gem set, the entire flank of the bracelet and its clasp entirely gem set and covered in like Rolex crowns along the set, uh lug, edges, sides, fronts, really anywhere where you can imagine there being possibly a chamfer on a watch is the only place where there wasn't diamonds on this watch. Correct
Ben . Yeah. Do you guys think this is a one of one situation? I don't know if it's one of one. Like Rolex doesn't do that, you know, but there's probably four. Yeah, there's probably like one now. Like they made one of them to show to like you know the Sadiqis or Mike Tay or somebody like that. And like they might get one or something like that. But yeah, I would guess like I would guess like the retailers that I just mentioned plus one or two elsewhere might get them. But yeah, I would say four, something like that. But we'll never know, of course, until we see it on like Drake's wrist in like six months or something. It had it had the the Drake thing. Yeah, for
James Stacy sure. Uh it was absolutely nutty. And and then you know there's cases of a couple other things that were all you know, there was a a yacht master in yellow gold that was full pave, but not to the same extent as this sea dweller.
Ben Crazy stuff. Yeah, I mean like th that that's kind of the stuff that we see every year when we go to this meeting. It's like okay, here's the off catalog stuff it's a yachtmaster with fucking Sprite crystals or whatever. You know, it's it's whatever like uh there was a soda light daytona. It was a platinum daytona like we saw but with the Pave Bezel, which was sick. But it's like okay, like I get that. That's kind of expected. The two things that we just discussed, like, never in my life have I seen anything like either of those
Mark . The fact that you mentioned Jacob and Co. and Rolex in the same sentence to me, like that that's That's how crazy it was. La last night, Jacob and Co. had an event to announce a watch that they are claiming to sell for twenty million dollars, which is like their their billionaire plus, whatever it is. And the fact that you're now saying, like, yeah, okay, Jacob, but Rolex outdid you is is kind of insane to
James Stacy me. It's another it's a different vibe. And especially when they did it with arguably their second most toolish watch, you know, being a sea dweller, you know, I'm I'm gonna we're gonna go out on limb and say w we checked and no it doesn't still retain thirty nine hundred meters of water resistance. But it was just a nutty thing to see and especially after seeing the the core product the new Daytona like the
Ben titanium yachtmaster. It's like okay, like the like the antithesis, like the the polemic like opposite of that, you know? Yeah, yeah. Uh just a wild wild experience. And happy to share it with you, James. It was fun. It was a good time
James Stacy . Yeah. Uh before I let you go entirely, any any any uh parting thoughts now that you've had the Daytona on your wrist? Because I am so impressed by
Ben it. Yeah, it's it's uh like it's Rolex is so annoying. It's just like like yesterday I was kinda like whatever, like you know, it it really is that much better. The dial in particular is a lot better. Now that I've the you know the sapphire case back on the Daytona, like that really made no sense to me uh at all. Um it's really well done. Uh I'm you know I didn't loop it or really examine it, but it it is it is far better finished than I would have imagined. Um so not a surprise. Like I love it 'cause I'm a dork, you know. Ye
James Stacy ah. Yeah. Little tweaks really from one r but but big tweaks for not only Rolex folks, uh definitely Daytona nerds. So thanks for weighing in on the wild stuff, man. Anytime. All right. I do want to get into obviously l yesterday's episode was Rolex Patek Tutor, that sort of thing. But you guys saw a lot of those brands yesterday, so let's let's get your thoughts on that before we move to a couple of fresh brands for the other half of the show. You guys w who who here got a chance to check out
Tony the latest from Tutor? We were all at Tutor. You know, it was Tutor being Tutor, right? They they cleaned everything up a little bit. The fifty f the fifty four that you wrote up especially I think was impressive for me. It's good, right? Yeah. I I put it on next to my fifty eight and it made me uh not want to toss my fifty eight in the trash necessarily, but it it had me thinking about what to do with it. It's slimmer, it's smaller. Tell me you're a vintage guy without saying you're a vintage guy, right? Stop it, James. Uh so that's good. But you know a lot of the other stuff, uh there's in-house movements up and down the line now, which is which is cool to see for for them. I know you were there checking that out and there's probably more to come on that front. Yeah, for sure. But it's it's tutor being tutor and it's it's cool to see. I think in a year when Rolex did all this wild stuff that you guys are just talking about, Tutor is the one that was buttoned up in serious this year, uh which is which is interesting to see. I suppose Absolutely. Mark, how about you? What'd you see at Tudor that that kind of left an impress
Mark ion? The black bay GMT with the white dial I think is a a smart move from Tudor. I don't know how much I necessarily would love it as something to add to my collection. I don't think it'd be the first thing that I'd go for, but I think it finally was Tudor stepping out of Rolex's shadow in a way that's also kind of kind of ironic because they it's definitely a callback to the old Rolex albino uh GMTs. Uh this is a sixty-four reference on those. Uh six uh six five four two. Yeah, for the albino. Six five four two and and they floated around for a while and when that came out the first thing I did was I texted a couple people in the vintage space and I said, you know, did we ever get a concrete answer on whether or not those things were real? because there was a lot of questions and and it was it wasn't just individual watches, it's just did those things actually ever exist. Right. And uh texted John Goldberger and he his response was hard question. Okay. And that's all I got. And so I appreciated the response for sure. Is that Goldberger's version of a maybe? Yeah, I I think so. And sometimes it's you know, he uh he's he's definitely a person to chat with over the phone if you want answers like that. But um it's a complicated thing. I did hear though that there is some proof that they did actually exist in Rolex's archives, and so like that's an exciting bit of news, but' also its just exciting that Tudor is doing something that I think a lot of people maybe criticize the Black Bay GMT in the past as being like a stopping point if you were really wanting to get a a Rolex GMT eventually and now Rolex doesn't make that. Only Tudor has that now. And so you can get something without looking down at your wrist and thinking, like, yeah, but I wish I had the Rolex. And for the people that, you know, still wanted the black dial, you can still get that. And that's great. I totally understand that it's a lot of money for some people, uh, to go for the Rolex and and maybe they don't want it, but Or it's a lot of money or you might have to wait forever. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the main thing. Like I've looked at getting a black bay GMT a number of times and and it was largely because of the weight, but the reason that I didn't was I was afraid that I'd look down at my wrist and be like, yeah, but this isn't actually what I wanted. Now I've got an option that's distinctly its own thing. Yeah. And maybe it could be the thing that I wanted. Yeah. Very cool.
Brandon Brandon, what'd you th think from Tutor? One cool thing, I don't know if you guys talked about this yesterday was the pop-up shop. Um I did you guys. alluded to it and we we wrote a story on the side. Check the show notes if you don't know, but Brandon will walk you through it. Yeah, it was pretty neat. So Tudor launched all the new novelties and at the same time they opened up a pop-up shop in Geneva and they're selling all the novelties there day of uh it was pretty neat. I got there at 10 o'clock. What'd you pick up? What will I pick up? I'll have to talk to the wife first, but but uh I was very tempted. Uh but no I got there and apparently David Beckham was there like 10 minutes before me, missed out on him. But it was um it was pretty neat. They they said that they were opening at 10 a.m. on the website, but I got there at 10 and they were not open. Uh they opened it at like noon. Um there were a bunch of people coming back and forth to check it out and nobody was allowed in and people were disappointed. So I took off at around noon and that's when more people started to come and and try to get in. But yeah, it was pretty neat experience. Out of the watches that uh came out for Tudor, I was really surprised by or not surprised, I just liked a lot, yeah, the uh Black Bay Burgundy um with the Jubilee or five-link bracelet. I thought that one is a really cool one. It was a it's a third generation I, believe, of the model. Uh because they had the edit movement first, then they did the in-house, and now they're doing master chronometer, which is it's great to me. And then they had what what was weird to me though is I always thought that that watch was the second generation with the in-house movement was too big. And I don't know exactly what they did with the case uh design, but it does feel a little bit smaller and more manageable on my wrist. You tried it with the bracelet? Yeah, I tried it with the bracelet. It's about a millimeter thinner too. Yeah, it's
James Stacy thinner. It's a l slightly different shape for the case to my understanding, but it I also think that the bracelet makes a big difference. I think
Brandon so too. And I wish I had a uh the uh second gen with me to sort of compare, but yeah, I really like that and as you mentioned what did I get from the pop up shop, that's what I would that's what I would. That's what I would go.
James Stacy Yeah, tr tryyinging on on the new Burgundy, my wife's daily is a Black Bay forty one and trying on the new Burgundy is it it it is a like a uh I would say not an a not insignificant change in ergonomics. And I part of it I d I genuinely believe is just the way that that a five link, you know, in quotation small J Jubilee kind of drapes around your wrist. And I my guess is that would be even better if it was, you know, all sized up for you and ready to go. Uh but yeah I think those are gonna be very popular watches because that that size I don't believe has diminished for them in popularity. That obviously the fifty eight has become something of a darling for journalists, enthusiasts and that and that sort of thing, but I think that's still this huge mass market appeal at 41, let alone the 54
Mark . So James, c can I ask you a question real quick about uh and the tutor and Rolex space? Did you get to try on the yacht the yacht master and titanium. Yeah. Uh I sorry, I missed listening to the podcast from yesterday, so I don't know. But I did it this morning. Oh okay. Yeah. So you tried it on this morning. You have the Pelagos 39. I wish that I had had that with me to kind of compare. What did what did you think about the two in comparison to each other? So
James Stacy it it's a weird bit of pickiness. Weirdly, I think that the yacht master, and I'm not sure how to explain why. The finishing is better. It's grade five, so that's one. Um, it's so it's RLX grade five. The the you know the the expression of the Pelagos is a little bit more utilitarian, whereas you have three layers of fin or three levels of finishing on the on the yacht master. I vastly prefer the the bezel on the Pelagos, 60 click, dive. I think like especially for the money, but even even if you go to a drastically more expensive watch, the 58s and the Pelagos just they click really nicely and the yacht master kind of has a different focus. So there's more more clicks in there and and that sort of thing. I think also the the lightness is almost belied by the width at forty two millimeters. I would I think the real comparison in my mind would be a standard Pelagos, which is almost forty-two millimeters, and uh and the the new one because this just seems, feels, looks so much smaller. The three millimeters makes a real difference. But I was impressed by just how insanely light. I think they said it was a little under a hundred grams. Yeah, which is w on a bracelet. Wh
Mark ich it was the thing to me. I mean, we ha we we handed it around yesterday in the group and and it was that sort of the whole Richard Meal lightness laugh that everybody had because you I mean it's not it's not the same lightness, but you have it in your head what a Rolex stainless steel model should look like sure and feel like and you pick that up and it's it it is not what you are expecting when it's in your hand. Yeah for
James Stacy sure. I think that probably you know gets us gets us up to date on Rolex and Tutor and we did a bunch of that in yesterday's episode if you happen to miss it. But I'm glad we could get you guys
Brandon Yeah, I have uh Grand Stake on my wrist. Uh uh Did you get a chance to see them today? I didn't I wasn't able to make that meeting. Yeah, I did. I did. Um and we saw the uh the tentagraph uh that name is so uh funny to me, but yeah, the the new chronograph tenograph. The chronograph tentagraph, that's such a weird So this is their first mechanical chronograph. Yes, the first mechanical um uh chronograph from them uh they didn't have a working unit. I did want to try one out. Uh it was pretty neat. Uh it's just it's just kind of hard when you can't really see a real working model. Were you able to put throw the the you know the model the dummy model on your wrist? Yeah, I think it's like forty-three and a half millimeters. Uh for me it was a little large, but it has shrank down from their previous um chronos in the past and I really like how they the pushers aren't quite as large as their previous versions. But yeah, it was a uh you know I I don't have too much to say about it because I like having like a working model there. So it just felt the a
James Stacy little odd. Yeah, for sure. I think that'll be one to be pretty fun to see once it's ready to go. Any anything else there that that kind
Brandon a Yeah, they had that um one that I was in love with. The shoon boom from their micro artist studio with the it was uh stunning. I think that it has the exact same not the exact but a very similar dial layout as the SBGA 413 that sort of light off pink dial where it sometimes it looks like a light gray and sometimes it's pink. And then you match that with the gold case that this one came in. And it was it was for me that was one of my favorites that I've seen in Watches Wonders so far. It was gorgeous.
Tony I can talk a little bit about this one because I this was the one I was excited to write up coming out of Grand Seiko. It's the Grand Seiko Hana Akita in Rose Gold. So yeah, that one, James, as I point to my article uh on the Hodinky website about to be published. Uh you can check it out just like James. It's the SBGY O two six for the Grand Sego reference nerds out there. It's it's beautiful. You know, I I make this point in my article, but there's something about a pink on pink watch that's that's absolutely gorgeous. I mean, vintage paddock nerds go crazy for them for a reason, and this is like a modern incarnation of that straight out of Japan. It it's gorgeous. A lot of times that SBGA four one three, the the pale pink dial, y you can barely even tell it's pink in some lights. It's it's unmistakable on the rose gold just because of the way the rose gold interacts with the the pink dial. And I do think it's a little bit pinker. Uh it it's hard to tell in the fluorescently lit halls of the Palexpo, but it's a gorgeous watch. The unfortunate thing on on some respects is like many Grand Secos, it's a limited edition. There's only a hundred of 'em. I bet they're pretty much accounted for by now. And it's twenty seven thousand five hundred bucks. A lot of money for a thirty eight millimeter dress watch, but but man is it gorgeous. That's such a nice size for a Grand Seiko as well. To me, listen, uh the Tenograph is cool. They spend a lot of time explaining the mechanics of it to us. And if Grand Seiko is excited about the mechanics and the technicals of a movement, you should probably be pretty excited about it too, knowing what they do, but to me this is pure Grand Seiko. Time only dress watch, spring drive movement, so it's gonna sweep smoothly across the pink dial. Like this is what I want from Grand Seiko. Nice.
James Stacy Yeah. I mean I my guess is they must have known they needed to bring some heat after last year with the Kodo, right? Like they told us that pretty much explicitly wildest watch
Tony ever the out of the brand. They're telling us they're like, you know, Richard Mill and AP collectors are are knocking on their door showing them the receipts that they've paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for for RMs and APs and they're trying to get one of those twenty Kodos. And uh there's nothing quite like that in in this collection. It's more consumer grade stuff, but that's why people like Grand Seiko because it's it's great value for what it is.
Mark Yeah, totally. I saw a Grand Seiko, I don't remember what it was, but you know, their continual use of that engraved case uh design is just pretty pretty phenomenal. And it's a good callback to some of their like hammered cases that they've done historically. I I know not everybody loves them, but I love that they're at least doing them. Abs
James Stacy olutely. No, and and I like that it's a it's a unique take on on the way that they approach watchmaking and something that yeah not everybody else is doing it but they do it and they do it at a high level which is fun.
Mark And the fact that they zeratsu polish their cases before they engrave the crap out of them is kind of amazing to me. Like this is the this is them saying like this is the right way to do it. Even if we're destroying what we're doing, it's still correct. Yeah. Fair enough.
Tony I'm glad you mentioned it at least quickly. That's the it's engraved. It's the SBGZ009. This is kind of the showstopper for them, they told us it's about $70,000, but it takes the white birch motif from the dial and they do it all along the case. It's pretty cool. It's about $70,000, but this is the one that, you know, to tell the story simply, this is where the the artisans learn from Philippe DeFour and the movement is finished higher than an IC2 or or something like that. So this is this is the showstopper for the year. Yeah, it's it
James Stacy 's an incredible thing. We we have a story but on that one on the website, so check that out it'll be in the show notes. And yeah, after Grand Seco, I'd love to jump into a meeting that I went to today to see watch that like I didn't fully understand until I saw it in person. And that's this new Oris Kermit. Like I I understand the appeal of the Muppets, obviously. I grew up with Muppet Caper and and this kind of stuff. I uh you know the road trip across America one, like all this stuff is great. I just didn't understand why it needed to be part of a watch. And then uh I I saw the watch in question. It's an Oris Pro Pilot 400 uh X four hundred and it's just super cool. The the color is like a green I've never seen on a watch before. It glows. You can see it from the other side of the room. Uh we've got something cool coming about this watch uh and and its subject matter. So stay tuned for that. But have you guys had a chance to see this
Mark ? I I saw it teased in photos, and then it just so happened that they were going to be in town with one of these watches, and they said, okay, you can you can shoot it ahead of the show and under embargo and everything. And I it it kind of really thawed my already jaded watched writer heart a little bit. I mean I I sh felt like I shouldn't love it as much as I did, but just seeing or uh just seeing Orris put Kermit in the date window like that and him looking at you. I mean it would be it would be fun if it was every day, but I like the treat of like it's only once and like it it it brightens your day that one one day a year. But I I was impressed the same with the color. Like I was impressed they really went out of their way to make it Kermit green. Um the only thing that I can think right now is I'm sitting here in the room with Ben and I want to hear him do the Kermit the Frog here voice if I he he can't. Oh man. I thought if I feel like our CEO Jeff could do a great Kermit. I certainly can
James Stacy . Hi Hoder. Kermit The Front. Do you want to get it on the mic and do that? All right, here's our CEO Jeff doing a Kermit voice. This is a uh Hodinky Radio exclusive. Hi, Hoder, Kermit the Frog, reporting from the Palexpo in Geneva
Mark . I'm I'm really glad that I tried to put Ben under the gun and we got that instead. That was fantastic. Well that was uh a delightful and unplanned interlude. Yeah, exactly. Uh
James Stacy how dare you challenge? Let it never be said that
Mark we're not having fun here. No one else is.
James Stacy the watch and uh and yeah definitely uh a uh a cool thing to see if you get a chance to swing by any sort of an aura spot obviously they're in the hodinky shop and uh aren't lasting very long in the shop currently the watch is proving to be very quite popular, but it it's something fun to see, yeah, like a watch that has such a kind of you know, they had the pink version last year, but even that had this kind of coolness, uh tonality, not not uh philosophy. They're all pretty cool. But the the green is is a
Mark really nutty green to see on a watch. And Or has told me that their number one thing is it literally in their whatever their description of of what the company should be doing is to have fun. And like this is fun. It it doesn't always have to be serious. And you read the comments on the introducing post, there are people that are saying, like, I was going to buy X watch at multiple times the price. Now my money is going towards a Kermit from Oris because it makes me happy and I think that's great.
Tony It brings me to my question, do we wanna see more Muppet watches? Do we wanna see Miss Piggy? Do we wanna see Big Bird or Give me a beaker?
Mark He was the one the only one I ever identified with. I asked if I could write my entire introduction in the voice of s the Swedish chef, and I was promptly turned down by our esteemed editors that that was not gonna go over well as an introducing post, but that
James Stacy 's uh yeah, I I th I think it's great. Who knows? Maybe yeah, maybe we'll see more uh Muppet themed watches from Morris in the future. Certainly if uh given given the seeming popularity of of the Kermit, I wouldn't be surprised. Look, let's get into another brand I've got on the list here. Tony, you want you want to chat uh JLC
Tony ? Uh JG Le Crourt. I always go with JLC. Uh you know, born in the Midwest of America. I'm just used to people like really ripping on my pronunciation. I'm not even gonna try. I don't try with any of the French words, man. JLC was our first appointment on Tuesday. It it was great. It's a reverso year for them, so there were a lot of great reversos. We saw some, you know, at the very high ends, some ones with really beautiful enameled case backs, the type of stuff you only see at at a thing like Watches and Wonders. At the at the sort of entry level, they had a quartet of new slim uh reversos with with small seconds down at six o'clock uh it starts at steel the one that really stole my heart was was rose gold with a black dial but there's there's four of them, they're all great.' Ths aere burgundy dial that works too. But the the show stealer in a way is the the chronograph. It's in rose gold and steel. It's it's an expensive watch. It's 21,000 US in steel. So it's expensive, but uh on the front side it looks kind of like a normal reverso, but on the back side there's a slightly skeletonized chronograph. It's it's quite fun to just play with it and and watch the mechanism working. There's a fun little thing because it's a reverso. The minute counter is a is a retrograde down at six o'clock. And once it gets past 15 minutes, it does this cool little thing where it'll quickly kind of tick forward to 30 minutes before it zips back to zero. I I'm not really sure if there's a practicality to that, but it's like it's fun, you know, mechanical watch making, which is what you want from from JLC, if anyone else. So it's a big reverso year. And and look, I walked in wearing my Cartier tank, to be honest with you, kind of the other big rectangular watch in the business and I I left uh liking the reverso and and I might might be a convert to be honest with you.
James Stacy I mean they're they're really, really charming watches and there's something that I've always liked. I think they were some of the first sort of complicated watches I ever came across as as I first got into watchmaking were you know some of the Spheroturbion stuff from JLC back in the day, the dual metras, and then into some of the wilder reversos, which were having a uh sort of renaissance for what I guess would have been the eightieth anniversary at the time. This is some time ago, of course. And they're they really are charming things that blend or that that can run the whole gambit from a single dial on one side, kind of the classic. Then you get into the 1931 stuff. Then you get into uh you like some of the the thin earth stuff and then you get into the complicated stuff. I think it's still one of the coolest like dual time watches, is where you just have one time on one side and one time on the other, the day nights. Those are still one of my favorites. Yeah. I I always get excited anytime I see one. It was actually the first press trip I was ever on with Ben was uh a JLC launch at Las Vegas for the um the master ultra thin QP. Did you guys get into any trouble in Vegas? Uh no. I mean they tried their best. Uh we we we nerded out as much as we needed to and then went to bed. No No, not too much trouble. I think that's um and the only time I've ever been in Vegas. I was there for a solid like twenty hours. Yeah, Ben says I d I don't strike him as a Las Vegas guy. No, no uh not so much. Not so much my speed, but I do really like that QP, the master ultra thin and of course the reversos and such. All right. Let's uh let's jump over to IWC before this episode gets uh, you know, fully out of hand in terms of length. Yeah, I thought the Ingenieur was really impressive in person, uh especially the titanium one, which for me leans into the idea of an integrated bracelet and a very sporty watch. And so sort of like works in a way that differentiates IWC from kind of a lot of the other stuff that they make which is commonly in steel
Mark . My question for you is do you think IWC it's uh it looks like a great watch, but do you think that IWC is on time with this or do you think they're a couple late a couple of years late to the to the party in terms of this craze of stainless steel integrated sports and everything. Look,
James Stacy I I I think if Tudor can release a seven nine two two reference in twenty twenty three rather than you know twenty seventeen, sure. Or twenty twelve? Yeah, exactly. Like yeah, exactly. When did the Aura sixty five come out? When did the Long Jeans Heritage Diver come out? Uh we're all if we're referencing something from nineteen seventy two or seventy six or whatever, then yeah, why not do it now? I would say. I think that they they did take a crack at the Ingenieur a few years ago and it I think it had like kind of middling success. It wasn't panned. But I think people wanted something closer to the original sort of concept and and I think that's what we're getting with this new model. It'll be interesting to see where they take it from here. And other otherwise, you know, we saw we like I said with the chronographs, like just kind of some nice expressions of the of the pilot, the top gun sort of aesthetic into a slightly smaller case which I I'm never gonna complain about
Brandon . I really like the Ingenieur. I when I first saw it I thought I think it's gonna be a hit. However, what do you guys think of the price point? I believe it starts at ten. I was really surprised. Yeah, I was a little surprised too. And and what is the titanium going for twel
Tony ve or fourteen? Uh I think it's fourteen US and the steel is around eleven US. And and look, the watch wears really nicely. It's forty millimeters diameter forty six ish lug to lug and maybe eleven millimeters thick. It wears really nicely. It wears like a a a modern iteration of the engineur should. It's is a tough price point to be at. If it were eight thousand, nine thousand, if it were sub ten K, this would be a hell of a watch and people would be running to IWC right now to buy it. Um at uh titanium at that price is more than the yacht master, which makes So maybe it's an alternative in that respect, but but it's a tough place to be, it's an aggressive price point. So we'll see how it works out for him, I suppose.
James Stacy Yeah, I uh the thing that I have to measure when I say that the I was surprised by the price point is like I'm obviously I'm not a buyer for the majority of the watches that we're gonna see, the vast majority. So you just know the number and you start to see it against other numbers. But one, like things have gotten legitimately more expensive in the last few years, watches of all kind, um, especially when you start to factor for the delta between a retail price, an actualized street price, and then let's say a secondary market price if the watch changes hands later on. And I think within that space the pricing becomes less extreme, but it still has to reflect against the same watch. And I I was kind of surprised by the price point, but otherwise very much kind of impressed by by the overall execution of a new ingenuaire and and and like I said, I think it hopefully they're able to stick with it and continually develop the watch, whereas the you know, the last one had a few generations and and then was pedhas out. So maybe maybe this one they'll find more of a base with it
Tony and keep moving. This feels like the Genta inspired engineer we've been waiting for. So I'm excited to see where they go with it. If this is just the start, this is a better starting point than where we were you know,
James Stacy twenty four hours ago. I I I don't disagree and I think that's a good place to uh to leave IWC. It was a fun meeting. They've got a Mercedes C one eleven in their booth, so that's worth it enough for me. I think that's only the second one I've ever seen in my life. So and it could be the same car for all I know. There aren't certainly too many of those. Look to close out, Mark, you want to talk a little bit about uh your chance to get to go see MB and F. Not a watch you're just gonna see on the street typically unless you're walking around with Ben yesterday, but that's a different story. You know, fun
Mark ny enough, I I've messaged with Max a couple times. I've messaged with some of his team. Arno is Ben really great. And I've made it a point to try to pay attention to what they're doing because I I not only really enjoy their watches, I enjoy the people that they're working with, Kari Vudalinen uh working on some of the movements and some other things and it's just a fascinating story. And again, it's one of these things. Like, I'm not a buyer for this, but to be able to experience it in some way is this is why we're here. So I I saw that there was a a meeting happening later in the week that I wasn't going to be able to attend. I reached out and just said, like, hey, is there any chance? Is the new space pretty cool? The new space is
James Stacy really cool. So that's the mad house for those wondering. Normally you meet them at the mad gallery, which is in in central Geneva. Um, but now they're in a new spot called the Madhouse. And the Madhouse is
Mark super cool. It's a it's an old kind of villa farmhousey vibe, three stories, um, a lot of the original architecture, and the fact that you've got these hyper modern watches being made in such a traditional space and uh what looks like a traditional workshop is really really cool. They were nice enough to take me around and show me you know some of the processes and how they mock up the cases and some of the things that they've tried to do that haven't worked from their history. And then at the end you walk into a room and you've you've got more NB and Fs than you could ever imagine seeing in your life. And they just say, What do you want to shoot? And I mean, that's that's the best thing possible and a uh that could come out of a trip to Geneva is seeing stuff that you're never gonna see and having somebody be happy that you are excited to play around with them and take some photos and just experience their work
James Stacy . I I don't disagree and I think that's kind of a nice place to to end this episode an episode that was highly featured watches that we won't see again and we're delighted to see in the first place. Mark, Brandon, Tony, Ben who's off mic, Jeff, Danny also off mic. Jeff, thank you for the song so much. I really appreciate it. Or uh the singing was off mic. Jeff, thank you so much for the the uh Kermit impersonation. Uh this has been an absolute treat, guys. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks. Tune in tomorrow for day three from Watches and Wonders. We'll have another daily episode. No idea who will be on it or what we'll talk about. I couldn't have planned this one at all. But if you're enjoying the show, please tell a friend, share it around, subscribe if you like it, and leave a comment if there's anything you need to know more about. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll chat to you in something like 24 hours.