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W&W 2023 – Day 1 – Rolex, Tudor, Patek Philippe, And A Show Highlight From Lange

Published on Mon, 27 Mar 2023 23:17:11 +0000

Ben, Malaika, Danny, and James chat about the latest and greatest from Rolex, Tudor, Patek Philippe, and Lange at Watches & Wonders 2023.

Synopsis

In this daily episode from Watches and Wonders, host James Stacey is joined by Ben Clymer, Danny Milton, and Malika Crawford to discuss the major watch releases from the show's first day. The team focuses on announcements from Rolex, Tudor, and Patek Philippe, with some discussion of A. Lange & Söhne.

The Rolex releases generate considerable excitement and bewilderment, particularly the unconventional Day-Date with emoji date display and inspirational words instead of traditional day/date complications. The team also discusses the "bubble" Oyster Perpetual with multicolored dial elements, stone dials in various materials, a new 40mm Explorer, GMT-Master II models in solid gold on Jubilee bracelets, the new "1908" dress watch collection replacing Cellini, and updated Daytonas featuring smaller dial elements and, notably, an exhibition caseback on the platinum version—only the third time Rolex has used a display caseback.

Tudor's announcements include the Black Bay Fifty-Four, a 37mm vintage-inspired dive watch, updates to the original Black Bay 41 with new movements and finishing, a white-dial Black Bay GMT, and expanded options across the range with new bracelets featuring T-Fit adjustment systems. The team debates whether the 37mm size fills a genuine market need or simply extends an already comprehensive lineup.

Patek Philippe introduces a unique Calatrava travel time with a 24-hour rotating dial (reference 5224R), pilot chronographs, grand complications with semi-transparent dials, and several Aquanaut variations including a rose gold chronograph. Ben Clymer highlights A. Lange & Söhne's new Odysseus chronograph as his personal star of the show—a 100-piece limited edition featuring an entirely new in-house self-winding chronograph movement with over 560 components, maintaining the model's distinctive aesthetic while adding complex functionality.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacey Hello and welcome to one of our daily episodes from Watches and Wonders. This is of course Wodinky Radio. I'm your host James Stacey. I'm joined today by Ben Klymer. Hey bud. And Danny Mil.ton. Hello And Malika Crawford. Hello. How's everyone doing? Hello. It's very like awesome power. This is uh yeah. We're doing great now. We're in person. It's great. Yeah, we're a little bit I wouldn't say sleep deprived, like the team did pretty good today. Everybody Well, I landed today. I didn't come in that
Ben Clymer early, but I I landed today. So you could actually say I kinda came in late relative to you guys. Comparatively, for sure. Comparatively. Yeah.
James Stacey This is we're off to a weird start. We are. The energy is weird. The jet lag is real. Yeah, it is real. I've been here for days, so I have no excuse. I'm just maybe bad at this. I don't know. It's probably that. All right. So today we uh saw a handful of brands, but I think we're gonna focus on kind of the big three that are a surprise uh at a on a yearly scale, and that would be uh Rolex Tutor and Patek Philippe. I didn't go to the Rolex meeting, Ben and I are doing that tomorrow. So maybe we we kick off Rolex Danny Malek. What are you guys feeling? We were quite giddy in that meeting. There was a lot. Yeah
Ben Clymer . It was a lot of new watches for sure. I don't know if the Cartier meeting last year it felt a lot like that. Just a ton of watches, like watch watch after after watch. When there's just multiple on the tray. Yeah. Yeah. And you're passing it around. I mean I didn't know what to expect, but I didn't expect something like six different models or seven almost? I I lost count. Yeah. Yeah. When you say different models, like new models? Like upgrade updates to models. You had, you know, you know, w different model ranges. I would say we I can count 'em off. Okay, let's count let's count explorer. Yeah, day date, yeah, OP, Sky Dweller, the new collection, and the GMT and the yachtmaster. That's seven. Yeah. You are very good at being uh accurate when it comes to Rolex, aren't you? So what what once left an impression? Uh well uh it depends. I might throw to Moleica first for the question what left an impression, because some stuff left an impression for sure. Well, let me tell you that there is an emoji watch in this lineup with a colourful jigsaw enamel dial and a inspirational word day and emoji date display, which is probably one of the wackiest things I've ever seen. Yeah, since podcasts are a visual medium for sure. Uh uh. Come on, link in the show notes. Definitely hit the show notes because Malica's talking about a day date that shows neither the day nor the date. Um You came up with quite a funny line this morning. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty wacky. Nothing on that. It's not not a James, you're the one full of jokes today. No, but it's called but they're called I guess unofficially called the jigsaw because they're it's not called anything. Just called a day. Just called a day date. I did ask and it says underneath thirty six millimeter day date inspire emotion watch or something. Watch to inspire emotion. So it literally for where the date window is on a day date it has emojis only emojis only emojis 31 emojis and for any of the good ones yes we have uh crying face no we didn't crying face any but kissy face could see you ben climber slap reacting in the city, slack dead guy? No D E no dead guy. We got eight bull cherries dogs. So I I I overheard you talking about this earlier today and I didn't really process what you were saying. No, I know you just thought I was being crazy. And I was just like, okay, yeah, like emoji watch, whatever. I'm looking at it now. This is crazy. It's a live, laugh, love watch. This is a crazy, crazy guy. Kind of crazy, guys. It's insane. Moleca was trying to set it several times and she kept turning to me and saying, I I'm doing something wrong, I can't set the emoji. Or I'm I'm unable to set the inspirational text. Because it says something like have faith or love Love says faith, peace, uh gratitude. It's listen, we're not making this up, it's real. It's a r I'm looking at it right now on on Hodinky.com. So you know it's on Hodinky.com. Yeah. Yeah. Uh Ben thought I was crazy and now you uh see the actual I I saw the the love thing and the day window. You didn't multitude of I did not. I d I I just thought like love was like kind of like perpetually there and I didn't realize that there was no date going on here at all. And of course Rainbow Hour Market. I mean there's a lot of like artisanal sort of craftsmanship there. With with But like where did this come from? Who knows? No one actually. This was definitely like Jean Fred Dufour's wife being like, Hey, you know what I think would be cool? This and he's like, Okay, you know
James Stacey And she was like, I want it. Yeah. Do you think the thirty the thirty one emojis that are used are her most common? It's the ones on the left hand side of the thing most used emoj
Ben Clymer is, yeah. Not yours, that's for sure. No. Nah. No. Um I think s came from the same brain as the bubble OP. Yeah, it got progressively like less crazy from there, but bubble OP is like right up there. Yeah, talk bubble to me. What's the what's the story there? I mean it's l it's literally um everybody was crazy over the colorful OPs for the last two or three years. Then they decided instead of having a collection of them, they'll just have one with all the colors on the dial. So it's it's the I don't know the shade of the specific shade of blue, but it's the quote unquote Tiffany blue turquoise background. Turquoise blue, that's the word I was looking for. Um, and then on top of the turquoise blue dial background, individually, one at a time, little colorful bubbles are added in each of the dial iterations that used to exist in the OP line. No, you are getting it right. It's a pretty um colourful dial, that's for sure. And it comes in thirty one one thirty, thirty six. Forty one. Full fam
James Stacey . Okay. I mean uh yeah, I mean Ben Ben and I will see these ones tomorrow and I c I feel like these maybe aren't aren't necessarily my speed from what I expect from Rolex uh year over year, but it does seem like they're kind of breaking the mold with a few ideas this year. Well, I actually really liked the stone
Ben Clymer dial, which was like, you know, I guess people are really into that kind of 70s look. So it was nice to see the well we didn't get to see all three of them. Which one did we get to Carnelian? Which is a sort of orange hue. Yeah. Really nice. So I'm I'm texting with a a well-known watch collector, and he says this watch, the emoji watch, is is a new line in the sand between eras for Rolex. There's pre-emoji watch and post-emoji watch. Oh wow. Oh wow. And I think he's probably right. Like you can't go back. You can't you can't go back. This is out there. I mean, this is like this could knock off the uh Richard Mail emoji watch off the top spot for me. Yeah. So just think about how far we've come. Because like when the rainbow de Tona was reintroduced in two thousand eighteen or so, people were like, Whoa, this is fucking crazy. And like in hindsight, that's like that's nothing compared to what we're doing right now. I can't tell if it's sort of being serious or making fun of itself, but I think it's just
James Stacey pretty it's pretty cool. So I mean before we get into the predictions of like the emoji GMT, the emoji sub, like those sorts of things down the road, what celebrity do you think would need to be photographed wearing this for it to gain a certain level of like oh Roger Federer. Federer
Ben Clymer ? Oh my gosh. No. Th this is like uh so as you as you may or may not know, El McPherson is like a pretty big Rolex collector. Okay. Her and I haven't spoken in a little while. Uh and I think like this is uh her watch. Or Giselle, somebody like that? I don't know. I think we're gonna get like somebody in the hip hop community wearing it. I think I'm just saying who's going to generally R M, I think he would wear it. I think he would wear it. I think James Cameron might wear it directing Avatar three. You know? Give words of inspiration to the crew when everyone's, you know. I would like a push a tee with someone to wear this well. Yeah, no, it's it's definitely gonna be adopted by by that community for sure. I'm just trying to think of like who would make this legitimate in the way that the rainbow is now legitimate. Would a golfer wear it hoisting a trophy? Like could you imagine? Absolutely not. I mean not not that I know of anyway. I could not think of one it needs to be an incredibly cool person to pull this off. I agree. Yeah. So um those were cool, but then we had some more sort of classic. Yeah. Well there was a I think if we're gonna go progressively like less crazy, I think now we land at Yachtmaster 42 titanium. Right. With the with the RLX bracelet. With the RLX bracelet. It's grade five titanium. And there's something like three different levels of finishing on it from satin brushed to polished to I think something called utility brushed. Okay. Something a little bit like more coarse or with more of a visual presence. Exactly. And I think that's that's on the edges of the bracelet. Coarse is probably the wrong word given Rolex. But it's brushed, it's brushed everywhere on the case. Um it reminds me a lot of the Pelagos 39, Pelagos 39. Um in feel just bigger. It's big, much bigger. Yeah. It wears really big. But it's honestly, a really handsome watch. Matte black dial. Sure. Um it's a thick bezel though. That bezel, but it's the yachtmaster bezel. Yeah, but I mean it's a lot of matte. It is all it's like
James Stacey all matte and brushed. Yeah. And is the bezel uh text, I assume it's in relief, is that titanium or is that uh like a white gold or well the bez
Ben Clymer el text is raised I think polished ceramic. Okay. Because it's because the the the flat part of the bezel insert is like a matte ceramic and then on the yacht master it's just black on black. Okay. Yeah. It was quite large on your wrist. Yeah, I can't pull it off, apparently, according to Maleca. Okay. Well this has beveled edges though, right? Yeah, has beveled edges. So those are polished and beveled edges, yeah. Is this uh I should know this. Is this the only modern Rolex with beveled edges? The deep sea deepy millimeter deep sea. The deep sea channels. Ah, that's right. Yeah. That was the that was the story when you went there. And it's like they're a thing with titanium now is to do the beveled edge. I mean I'm for that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. What about bigger explorer? Okay. Oh, let's talk about bigger explorer. Here's the thing with bigger explorers bigger explorer is literally that. And the problem is that you lose so much of the proportionality at at that size. I mean at thirty six millimeter everything kind of is harmonious. This looks kind of wide. It feels stretched. Sure. Just literally just like you're working. I mean, we've already done bigger explorer. We've already been there. It was brought back down. Yeah. And now it'
James Stacey s back up. Now it's bigger than it's ever been. Yeah. So 36 is a known quantity. 39 from the previous generation, a known quantity. Is this fairly similar to the thirty-nine or it's it sits differently? Feels bigger. It did feel bigger than it. No,
Ben Clymer but it feels like it feels a lot bigger. It feels almost like a forty two. It it I think it's just because I'm so used to staring at a thirty-six because I wear it basically every day. Looking at the forty was uh large. Especially on your wrist. Especially on my wrist. Especially on my wrist. It was uh it was I was excited to see it because I was hoping it would wear like a 38 millimeter because all I've all I'm hearing is how like the forty-one OPs wear like the 39 OPs. This is not how the forty millimeter explorer wears. It wears like 40 to 41 millimeters of watch. Okay. Rolex don't care. They're giving us big watches. I'd get it though, because I think that a lot of people love the explorer design. Yeah. And are not interested in getting into 36, especially the way that the the bra
James Stacey celet tapers too. Yeah. Do you also think like there's there's something you said like the delta between what's currently an explorer two and an explorer, if it's forty two to thirty six millimeters, like this home somewhere another option. That's meaty. That's substantial forty forty two millimeters. Absolutely. And and with that the big like the the true like super maxi dial on those. They have a a wrist presence all their own, but they wear like every millimeter at 42 for sure. So maybe this is speaking to that sort of side of the audience. Yeah,
Ben Clymer maybe. Or just like one day they're like, let's just do a forty millimeter explore. And so they did. Don't you think there's a huge gap between sort of the journalist and sort of watch insider community that all for small wat
James Stacey ches, but really the general public, like big watches. Yeah, and there's like the the bulk the bulk of watch buyers. Everybody else
Ben Clymer . For consumers. Yeah. Yeah. And like the the average roller consumer, and I'm embarrassed to say that I like I meet these guys often on the golf course. It's just like rich middle class white guys that like play golf. And like that's who is buying most Rolexes and they probably want a for
James Stacey ty millimeter explorer. Yeah. And that it brings it closer to the size of a sub. So if you already have a sub, you you're like you understand the the kind of presence on your wrist. Maybe that's the thinking behind it. Yeah. Finally, we get to what I think I'm most excited about, and that's a GMT two in solid gold
Ben Clymer . Yeah. The to this release was sort of like what Rolex does every year. It's a watch you just assume already existed and apparently didn't because it should yeah because it should have before. And uh for the past I don't know three or so or four years we've had only uh precious metal GMT was in uh rose gold or everose, Rolex Ever Rose. Um, but now we have uh two tone, steel and yellow gold and a full yellow gold with a black and gray bicolor bezel. The gray is really cool. And it's the first, I think, gray they've got to get it. And Jubilee, right? Jubilee. And Jubilee and not on Oyster, which is the thing. A huge difference. Because there's no Jubilee for the Everose. So this. It's hot. This is like the all yellow gold was like maybe my favorite thing. It looked it this did look good on you. This worked. So you can get this one. Access grants. This is this this to me is like the the new exit watch. This is this this is I mean, you but might as well put the Batman aside.. Just throw it away Yeah, I think I might just put it in the trash. Throw it away. I'll recycle it. I'll recycle it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's not a lot to say. If you know the GMT, you know it on a Jubilee. It's this, but yellow gold. Yeah. We were hogging it, to be fair. I was we were quite excited. But but I think we we should move into the fact that Rolex not even quietly killed off the Cellini collection today and then Milgow and the Milgause. Cellini and Milgas dead. R. I. Yeah. R.I.P. M I have a feeling we'll we'll see the Milgaus. You can have both mics. We're gonna see the Milgaus again, I have a feeling for sure, but I don't think we'll ever see I don't know that. Okay. But I can't imagine. Well, your predictions are very accurate, Mr. Milton. They're not it was not bad. It was not bad. Yeah. Um but the the new perpetual collection is what it's called. Perpetual collection, nineteen oh eight. Yeah, it's the newest. We love that. Cellini is dead. Here for the 1908. Clean. Clean. Yellow gold, black dial. And exhibition case back. Pretty cuckoo. We I think agree yellow gold, black, matte, black dial is the way to go on the side. Yellow gold, matte, black. Yeah. A hundred percent. This is oh you're gonna like this watch, James. Yeah. Yeah. This is like it's your kind of yellow gold watch. Nice. Yeah. Nice. There's what that means. There's levels of James. There's there's there's titanium GMT James and then there's like this quiet dress watch yellow gold James that not many people know about and I feel like I know about it 'cause you wrote a weekend edition about dress watches. I like I do really like them. I can't afford any of the ones I like. How much? This this is a twenty-two thousand, I think yellow gold. Twenty-three thousand white. All right. But it's it's a pretty great and there's like a I don't know, it's just c cleleanan. It's super. It's kind of a similar case to Cellini. Yes. We've yet to spot the difference. And we couldn't get an answer on that today of whether it's the same case or not. But the dial is great. Update. Small small seconds. Small seconds. The observatory our hands. Yep. Yeah. Superlative chronometer text like wraps around the subdial. Yeah. Like in a Daytona-esque fashion. It's very cool. So James and I haven't seen it yet, but a genuine qu excuse me, a genuine question I'd like a genuine answer. So it's twenty two thousand dollars, right? Yeah. Would you buy this over like a Longa Saxony extra thing? Would you buy this over a Calatrava? Would you buy this over a Chopard LUC, would you buy this over like any great dress watch that I could name, would you buy this over that? I'd buy it over an LUC, but I'm not sure if I can answer all those other questions in the affirmative. Okay. That's tough. I like an LUC. I do like an LUC a a lot. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. Last year we went nuts over that LUC with the uh the honeycomb. I like that you guys are into that because I wouldn't have expected you to I've got to retire someday. Yeah, yeah. To me, the watch this works much better than Cellini though in in design. But I unless they somehow like are planning to expand this perpetual collection right and just knock it out of the park, I don't know if it's w it's they're gonna have the same problem that that we're having with Cellini. Well, it it's probably just for people that just like a Rolex dedicated, like you. That like don't even know what a longa is or even a patek is. It's like, oh it's a Rolex on a strap. I'll take it. Who just likes, you know, I want a Rolex, I need a dress for the country. Which is half of the country. Yeah. It doesn't have a screwdown crown. Like it doesn't give you all of the unbreakable aspects of what I think makes most Rolex watches so cool, which is you can do anything you want with them. This is purely Rolex making a dress watch, and I don't know if I love that so much. You know? But speaking of exhibition case back, we should get to the people's champion. Close out on the Daytona? The Dayt
James Stacey ona. All right. Yeah. It's a it's a bunch of small d tweaks. Big tweaks when they're when you're talking Daytona or Rolex, but like from any other brand, pretty small tweaks, right? It's suit they're super small twe
Ben Clymer aks, but they just they change the watch enough where if you're looking at it, you can recognize it's a different watch. The the hour markers are made much smaller actually. Okay. Um, like significantly smaller to the point where everything on the dial looks kinda small. Yeah, you can really notice the change in the the arm market. I actually kinda felt like I need almost needed reading glasses, like enjoy the dial a little bitittle bit. L like even the text felt smaller. Um, and then there's now um a metal ring around the seracron bezel matching whatever the case material case material is, okay, which wasn't there before. I think before the Sarah Chrome just sort of sloped down. Um, and then on the platinum Daytona, there's now an exhibition case back. Um showing off a new movement for the entire line. With they all have a new movement, but this one actually shows it and there's like a there's a new rotor, um, an engraved rotor. It's crazy that there's an exhibition case back on a Daytona. It is. Yeah. It really I mean it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Uh I'm not against it, but it just doesn't make any sense to me. You know, it's just like Rolex is closed case pack. It's like that's what they do. Uh and of course new movement in in all of these, which like you know, frankly not that many people really care about. But I think Rolex is probably really proud of what they've done with the forty one thirty one. Um yeah, but platinum with an open case pack is nutty. It's weird nutty. It's hard to get used to. Well, it's a isn't it a big anniversary, uh guys? But it's the third time ever, and two of the times happened today I know it's wild. Yeah. It's crazy. For case back? Yeah, for K. What was the other one? The prince? The prince, yeah. Yeah. It's pretty wild. Yeah. It's it's a weird feeling to turn over a Rolex and see Yeah, it feels like an aftermarket thing. Yeah. It's like, whoa, this tricked out Rolex. It feels like what we thought when Tudor did that. It just didn't felt a little awful a little strange. The the thing that I love about Rolex is that like they're just incredibly lasting. And when I buy a Rolex, that's usually for something, I always have it engraved. And part of the reason why I buy Rolexes is I can have it engraved. You can engrave a sapphire case back. True. So what does that mean? And I think like most pe not, I shouldn't, but several people I know love a modern Rolex because they can buy it new, give it to your son, daughter, husband, wife, whatever, engrave it like in a in a really like in a you know me,aningfully dynamic way. Like there's a large kind of facade there to to engrave. And there's really nothing you can do the sides now, you know, you can do the the clasp maybe, but it really changes things. And I think the idea of not being able to engrave a Rolex Spsort Watch for me definitely takes something away. Because all of my all my modern Rolex is every single one is engraved on the case back. I feel like not that many people will be getting a platinum daytainer. To engrave it? Or just inject it. You know where my mind is. Actually. Yeah.
James Stacey But yeah, I mean that's that's a that's a lot of watches. It is, yeah, it absolutely is. And I do want to keep moving because I I want to get to the other two brands that we mentioned at the top. So maybe maybe we jump out of Rolex. If you want to dig in deeper, obviously everything we mentioned will be in the show notes. And of course you can go even deeper on uh rolex.com and that sort of thing. But how about we jump to Tutor? Sure. So Tutor had had some interesting stuff this year, obviously uh a brand new format for the Black Bay in the fifty-four, so it's a thirty-seven millimeter watch. It's quite thin, a a little a little under eleven point three millimeters. It uses the fifty four hundred, so the same movement from the Pelagos thirty nine and the precious metal black bay 58s and it comes on a bracelet and the bracelet has T-Fit the rubber strap has T-Fit as well. It's a no-date currently only black dial black bezel guilt effect sort of uh thing similar to the to the first of the fifty eight. Um I I was pretty kind of impressed by that. I think it's pretty cool. I think it's product that probably a lot of people want even if the fifty eight will be the the happy middle for a lot. And then I got r kind of excited about the idea of like a rubber OEM strap with T fit. Cause my uh having just bought a Pelagos 39, which has like a tang, a pin buckle, uh you don't have that option. And Tfitz have become something I really, really appreciate about the Pelagos
Ben Clymer . Hot take-ish. I think it's pretty small for a guy who really likes small watches. I think it wears really small. And I I'm I'm just curious of why with the thirty nine existing that this also exists. Um but I kind of I get I get it in a way because much like what Tudor does, it it's paying direct homage to something, you know, within the Rolex Tutor catalog. But to your point too, um I know one thing I noticed today, and this starts with this watch, is like leather is out. Ye
James Stacey ah. Leather's leather's leather is sort of out for tutor. So we're seeing more of the five link qu,ote unquote like a jubilee, and we're seeing more rubber. Everything has uh the you know fold out class with the the T fit, which I think is a nice evolution, obviously something that like a lot of people are asking for and uh a lot of the comments immediately were, will this bracelet fit X watch I bought two years ago? Will this clasp? And the answer is almost certainly no. But yeah, I think it's an interesting kind of evolution, and I think it speaks to the fact that just the generalized overall longstanding success of the fifty eight for them to now go full vintage effect. Ye
Ben Clymer ah. Yeah. I just I mean nobody loves the vintage tutor stuff more than me. Like I've got probably too many black bays of of like every different color, say size, shape, etc. I just like the 7922, 7923, the 22 is what this is based on. Like that is one of my dream watch. 7923 in particular is my dream watch. I just like I don't I'm not sure there's that much demand for the same watch, just smaller, which is basically what this is. The watch is great. I had it on my wrist. I love it. If I didn't have Black Bay 58, I'd buy it today. And you actually can down the road here in Geneva, which is cool. But it's just I just really question or wonder if there's that much demand for an add like another vintage dive watch in effectively the same size, same format, same, same everything, really
James Stacey . Yep. Yeah, it it comes down to, you know, is the delta, this is such a uh esoteric question, is the delta between forty-one and thirty-nine as big as the delta between thirty-nine and thirty-seven? Because if it is, there might be another market. Typically when you go below thirty-eight, you stop seeing two hundred meters of water resistance, especially from some of the more major brands. You go to a hundred and fifty, you go to a hundred, you go to passive crowns. They're not, you know, I'm big air quotes on this one like technical dive watches. Yeah. Neither is this in in many ways. But uh I think it's a handsome thing. I I think it fits the line nicely and I agree that like its biggest competition will remain will probably remain the fifty.
Ben Clymer I just I d I don't know that I've ever heard anybody complain that the Blackway fifty was too large. Right. But I think it's quite a diplomatic move in my mind anyway. It kinda is another option. It's another option and it opens it up to people like me, maybe. Sure. You know. It kind of I think women are getting I don't know, it's tough 'cause I like to wear bigger watches too, but I think thirty six, thirty seven is just right for me. So now maybe I'll consider looking at this watch
James Stacey . All right. And I don't think you'd be choosing wrong. This is also one of the they I just recently before we started Watches and Wonders, spent a couple days with Tutor and visited their new manufacturer, which is kind of co-shared or it's an assembly facility that's co-shared with Kineci. And all of these watches are being assembled there kind of unilaterally and this includes that. That's also why they've got this pop-up in Geneva where you could buy the watches today. Yeah. And so the 54 is part of that. And I think for especially for like the Hodinki mine share, the idea of a 37 millimeter vintage inspired you know direct reference sort of thing is special. You have a crown with no crown tube, which is a big difference actually when it's on your wrist. A bezel with only the major five-minute markings like the original, uh new crown or bezel profiling, it's all that kind of stuff. I would have loved to have seen like and I've said this a lot, like drilled lugs would have been pretty cool. Yeah, easy to do to lean into something like that. Um but the bracelet I thought worked pretty well. I thought it fit my wrist really well and just didn't feel that different than what I expected from a from my from a fifty eight. Yeah. Dozens of times I've worn them. Or even my my Pelagos thirty nine. Yeah. It's the the big thing I would say if you're wondering and you're not able to go see it, it wears so thin. It does really thin. Because there's so little side case. Yeah. And then the because like I'm wearing the Pelagos 39 now and which is quite a thin watch uh for a dive watch but you have case, bezel and, crystal because it's all flat. Yeah. And because this is all staged, you really only take the width of the case band itself. Yeah. Uh into m measure. And it it just s
Ben Clymer its really low. So uh uh upon further consideration and based on what Melica said, I'm actually going to take my little hot take back. And it actually makes a lot of sense. And the reason is because I'm thinking of like the most successful watch in the world right now. It's probably the Royal Oak. Yeah. 41, 39, 37. Yeah. You know, and it's it's like, you know, women wear thirty-seven. I know guys that wear thirty-seven. Like it doesn't it doesn't really like it all works. Um like for me, thirty-nine is optimal, but I understand why a thirty-seven could could work. But listen, I would love to do BB fifty eight, right? But it's a little big for me. I genuinely am gonna go and try this on.
James Stacey Yeah. It is a couple millimeters thinner. Um, but it's not, it's it's the way that they balances the case, the case back, the lug shape, the bezel, and then there's a bunch of crystal being kind of a vintage effect. I think that's one option. We obviously have seen the first major evolution of the original BB41 in some time. Which is actually interesting it's interesting to
Ben Clymer Ben's point too, is that uh what you're saying is we continue to have the original Black Bay and and kinda unlike the Royal Oak, or actually similar to the Royal Oak, what what I mean to say is that they're not these black bays are not carbon copies of each other sized differently. There are a few differences between them. And so now the original Black Bay has been changed in ways not dissimilar to the Daytona, you know, like little tweaks. Yep. Um and a a fairly considerable movement upgrade. Now it becomes I think the second sort of standard quote unquote black bay to have meta certification. Um the the I guess the black ceramic being the first. Right. Um and now you have um that master chronometer movement inside this watch on the inside, and it is currently the only of the OG black base to have that movement. So the blue bezel black dial and the black bezel black dial continue to have the the older movement. Um but here now what you get is a new crown. You get uh you don't have the the the color uh the So on the on the burgundy, on the old black bay there'd be red, I guess, crowned tube. And now that's gone, which is great. Um, because I wasn't a huge fan of that. You've got new dial finishing. And what I think is pretty interesting is the the bezel itself has been reconfigured. It it feels a bit more like the old like tutor subs and Rolex subs. It's more triangular in nature,
James Stacey a little toothier. Um to be clear, the bezel is still round. You mean the the jimping, the grip profile and the edge. The grip profile. Exactly. Exactly
Ben Clymer . Exactly. It's a little thinner. And I honestly feel like the thinness translates to the wearing experience. I felt like it wore like it was thinner and it's not just something that they say on paper. And similar to what I was saying before about rubber on the 54, this watch now comes in, I guess, three configurations. It comes on the five-link bracelet, which is similar to a Jubilee. Yep. It comes on the oyster style bracelet with the faux rivets. The rivet. Yeah. And it comes on rubber. Yep. Um and it no longer comes on any distressed leather strap that we're used to. And all of those have T fit again, because people will ask. And T fit is if you don't know, it's it's quite similar to the glide lock Rolex clasp system. So it's
James Stacey not on wrist adjustment. You pop the the watch off and there's a little sliding kind of spring loaded adjustment. I
Ben Clymer like this watch. Um, I I I see a future where I guess all the Black Bay 41s go this route, but at the moment, I I it looks really nice. The the combination of especially the five-link bracelet. I think it wears it where's it wears really nice on the wrist? Yeah. There's a woman checking herself out in the window. That's fantastic. That's great.
James Stacey You look great, don't worry about it. Uh next up we've got a new black new version of the Black Bay GMT that we can cover very quickly in that it has an opaline white dial. White dial. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is a nice nod to like the the albino that may or may not exist. Right. Yeah. Uh and it's uh uh white still white markers and uh uh it's sort of I couldn't quite tell in person. I think it's not quite white metal surrounds for the hands and markers. It's like darkened. Yeah, darkened so there's some contrast there which is nice. Darkened. Um if you're a BBGMT fan, I think this one will absolutely fit the catalog from the original to the Rupeer to the the uh this new one with the opaline. And then finally they announced uh kind of the first major upgrade of the 31, 36, 39, 41 black bays, in that we're now sunbrush styles man,uf aacture caliber, and the option of the five-link style bracelet. Uh those come in uh an array of new colors, and I believe all of those colors and quite possibly all of those sizes, could be wrong, uh, also have diamond indices as an option. Yes. That doesn't feel very Tita, but I like it. Uh well I mean the the nineteen twenty eights all have uh a diamond indice option, but that's more of a dressy thing. Yeah, that's a different one. So I think especially with with the the smaller sizes it's you know, it's a play for as wide a possible market worldwide. I I th I think these are all like successful evolutions, with the fifty four being the one that feels like the biggest surprise, but also the neatest sort of alignment with what they've been succeeding with among enthusiasts for the last few years. That's what I would say. Moving on from Tudor, you want to dig into a little bit of uh Patek Philippe? Sure. So uh quite a handful of new stuff
Ben Clymer . Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I there's there's a lot of new stuff that like is really new, and then some stuff that's like, oh, and like now there's an aquanut chronograph in rose gold instead of white gold, which you know, is compelling. Like that's a watch that I think most people would buy if they had access to at retail, you know? Uh, but I think the big one for me was the travel time that rotates once per 24 hours, which is like a pretty quirky thing. And I actually own a wash that rotates once per twenty-four hours and it's like incredibly disarming because it's like you're just not used to telling time that way. Like you look for you look for hands kind of like relationally on the dial, not like actually like in between what what numerals it says on the dial. Uh and it throws you off. Like if you're not wearing that watch every day for a week, you actually have no idea what time it is at o'clock. Yeah. You have two hands that you have to read. Exactly. So the the Patek does that and has a G uh like a a home time GMT uh hand as well. It's neat. It's it's really, you know, it's it's pet tech, so it's really well done. What's I think probably most compelling to me about it is that they use the base caliber off that inline perpetual calendar from like two years ago, which is like a $90,000, like very, very high and really beautifully made watch. So they took the base of that to do this. So it's like this is not just like a a simple self-winding Calatrava with like a full rotor. It's micro rotor like beautiful like three bridges, I think. Really neat
James Stacey . I mean that that was the standout for me at the consumer level. Yeah, I would agree. Uh I I was really stunned by it in person in images, it just looks like a cool watch. And if you look carefully you go like, oh wait, twelve is at twelve, but twenty-four is at six. Yeah, it's neat. Uh you know, what what exactly is happening here? And then the demo because with a lot of the travel time stuff you would have a pusher or two winged pushers. Um and this is done through the crown, uh which is pretty slick. Uh you know, it's the uh 5224 R, uh, and we have that on the site as well. Uh beyond that, you know, we had uh kind of an evolution of the pilot calatravas. Yeah. Yeah with chronograph. Uh yeah, chronograph and retaining the the um travel time uh feature. So that's the fifty nine twenty-four. Yeah. In blue or green. I I thought these were great in person, quite sizable. Yeah, they're they're they're they're big watches. I mean the pilot's watches have always been big. Uh you know, yeah, un
Ben Clymer til they did the little rose gold one. Yeah, the little baby one.. Which was pretty small Yeah, it's inverse. Uh yeah, I mean that that that little that family has like its own little set of collectors out there that like are kind of different than most other Patek collectors. Like guys either guys or gals like love them or hate them. I'm kind of somewhere in between that. Um, you know, they were total dogs when they came out and that like you can get them at retail and they were everywhere. And now you can't, obviously you can get any Patek at retail. But you know, a chronograph makes sense in a pilot's watch for sure. Yeah. Uh I think for me, you know, on top of the stuff that we just mentioned, I think the the fact that Patek did kind of like a semi-transparent sapphire dial on one of their grand comps, the retrograde um mini repeater. Right. Uh I forgot the reference right now. Um 531
James Stacey 650 P. That was rattled off off the top of James' head, by the way. I'm not holding my phone and not on their website.
Ben Clymer Certainly not. Um it it's basically like a longa lumin dial. Uh without the luminous materials effectively. And like that is interesting because you don't often see Patek really kind of go after anybody that way. And I'm not saying that they did in this case, but it's it's pretty similar to the Longa Lumen stuff for sure. Yep
James Stacey . And then uh there's several other grand comps that uh if that's something that, you know, has a specific appeal to you, uh you know, we'll be digging into over the next little while. Uh and then beyond that, you know, I think the ones that stand out is there's a a trio of sort of very sporty, almost automotive inspired Calatravas um all in white gold, uh, but one in with the kind of yellow accents, one with um red, and one with blue. Those are the six thousand and seven G's. Yep. And then I probably the other two standouts, like like Ben mentioned, would be the fifty nine sixty eight R, which is the chronograph in uh rose gold uh aquanut. And then of course they also did this uh luce, which is uh a triple date moon phase aquanaut on a with a really gorgeous sort of um desaturated pastel blue and a matching rubber strap. It's and it was I was kinda like meh on on the image and on person's nice clothes I would wear that watch. Yeah it was pretty fun. Definitely beautiful. Yeah, I could see she couldik work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean lots of stuff from them. I I would encourage you if if you're interested, reference numbers are tough to uh really picture in one's mind's eye. Swing by their website, swing by hodinky.com and check out more of that. And your first time in a f in a few years? First time in a f
Ben Clymer ew years. Yeah, I missed last year. Good to be back. Like genuinely. Yeah. I I don't say that in any like kind of flippant way at all. Like it's genuinely good to see not only you guys, but like there's been so many people that I've known for 15 years that I haven't seen in a third of that, you know, four or five years. So just great to be back and kind of be back in the mix and introducing you guys to to the people I've known forever. But yeah, it's watches are bigger and better than ever. You know, and it's like, even though it kind of feels like based on this podcast anyway, that like a lot of the stuff today was just kind of like regurgitations of like, you know, things that have been around forever and forever and ever. And I think to some degree that that is what we saw today. Uh there's still so much excitement that just wasn't here. I mean, SIHH, what was your first SIHH? What year? Uh 16. 2016. Or 15. Okay. So I mean how many people, how many
James Stacey more people were there today than there were in two thousand or sixteen? Oh way more and and so many more brands too is is how it feels. But yeah, it's it's definitely you like you said, you see the same people and and goodness sakes if you try and walk from one side of the hall with Ben to the other, you move in twenty twenty step chunks. Uh as folks do want to stop and say hi and and uh you know, p pitch their latest uh business and that kind of thing to you. Someone touched you and said that touching you is their good luck charm today. That that did happen. Wow. That's that's a watch trade show today. But no, uh I'm I guess the other thing I did want to say is do you want to talk for a couple minutes on the Longa? Ye
Ben Clymer ah, I mean it was the star of the show for me, but like I'm kind of a longa diehard. Like I d as I said in the story that like I was all too excited to write, is like they continually do stuff for people like me when they don't have to. You know, th there's nobody like this is a self-winding chronograph, like they could have made their equivalent of the 4131 Rolex effectively, or just taken the the movement that's in the data graph for the 1815 and put a rotor on it, or you know, they would have had to modify it heavily. But like that exists already in their in their kind of DNA and repertoire, and they chose to like really start from the ground up. The watch is big and thick and expensive, but it is just so far beyond what anybody else is doing from Rolex to PatTech. Like PetTech doesn't do stuff like that. Like at least in a commercial watch, like the A Nautilus or an Aquanaut. I mean, that they're Aquanaut today, like that's their self-winding chronograph. Like it doesn't hold a candle in in it's also a third the price, you know. Um so you have to be careful with that. But yeah, Langa continues to just over, over, over deliver on so many things. Again, there's only a hundred of them. It's well north of $100,000. Like this is not a normal watch in any way, but like they're still doing really cool stuff. And a guy like me who's seen probably too many watches, like that's what I'm looking for these
James Stacey days. Yeah. And I mean if if you you skip the story, I'll give you the quick rundown. More than 500 components, 560 or 561. My brain gets those second digits backwards. Um it it is a uh chronograph, but from any distance, even if it's in your hand, you almost wouldn't necessarily know, except that there is a you know a uh at least one visible hand pointing to zero. It remains a uh day date. And then of course there's no subdial for the chronograph, so you have a minute indicating hand and a the running seconds hand for the chronograph, which is not uncommon um, but very cool to see on a on a new movement as as an option, especially because they in speaking with them, they're they're so serious about maintaining the look of an Odysseus. Yeah. Even though this goes up about two millimeters, it's it's considerably thicker than than the last ones. And then of course if you know the Odysseus, the pushers are to actuate the day and date. And here if the crown is in it's chronograph. It's the chronograph, and if you pull the crown out, it does and I mean like stuff like that's really rare. I mean it's just like they just do cool stuff
Ben Clymer . And I think like to you know to to going back to what you said about how they wanted a cut. And it's steel. Yeah, and it's still on a bracelet. Yeah. Uh to keep the congruity of like what Odysseus means, a friend of mine saw a leaked photo of it somehow, somehow, who knows where? But he didn't have any information. He's like, Oh, I know what the new longa is, it's a GMT. Like it's a it's a dual time zone. And I was like, it's not, it's really not. But that's what the watch looks like, it just has one additional hand, but is an entirely brand new in-house self-winding chronograph. Uh, yeah. I mean, like langa just does cool stuff, you know. Uh, and and you know, I think it it is better on the wrist than I thought the Odysseus is, as I said in that article, like just way better in person than it is on in print or online. Um, you know, I'm gonna want to see it again uh to really kind of understand it and see if I can like wear it for a minute or two. Um, but it's it's a great watch. It really is. And and for sure the highlight of the show for me so far. Ye
James Stacey ah, and you you wrote an incredible story. So if if any of you missed that or you saw it and you just thought oh it's it's an Odysseus or an Odysseus GMT and and that didn't do it for you, go back and check it out because there's some cool context there. And I I was really it it just felt like something I you that was unexpected and so over the top in its execution while still being like pretty subtle. Yeah, and also literally the only product that Lon
Ben Clymer ge is sho showwing the entire. One watch. Really? One dial. One hundred unit watch. One one hundred unit watch. That's it. Which I kinda like that. That's cool. That's pretty cool. It is. It's really cool. Um so yeah. Now that that was I'm glad you brought that up. That was the star of
James Stacey the show for me. Yeah. Well, that's uh that's day one as a wrap. Uh Ben, Maleka, Danny, thank you so much for joining me for this first episode. If you're listening, there'll be another episode tomorrow with a different cast of characters, and I can't wait to uh get into whatever we see tomorrow. It's gonna be a fun one. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed it, share with all your friends, leave a comment, etc. Thanks, James. Bye James. Bye James. Bye.