Chatting About The Latest Releases From Omega And Patek Philippe With Ben Clymer¶
Published on Sun, 30 Oct 2022 12:45:00 +0000
The Chrono Chime, the 5811G, and a whole bunch more.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host James Stacy sits down with Hodinkee founder Ben Clymer in a Los Angeles hotel room to discuss two major watchmaking announcements. The conversation primarily focuses on Omega's groundbreaking new Chrono Chime complication, which they had just witnessed being unveiled at a special event in downtown LA. This technically extraordinary timepiece combines a split-seconds chronograph with a chiming mechanism that audibly reads out the measured time, representing a six-to-seven-year development project featuring 575 components, 13 patents, and a generational leap to a 5Hz coaxial escapement. The movement debuts in two models: a 1932-style pocket watch with strap and a modern Speedmaster case, both priced around $450,000.
The duo then shifts to analyzing Patek Philippe's recent wave of releases, including the new white gold Nautilus 5811G (which Ben finds unremarkable despite its quality), the peculiar left-handed 5373P Destro split-seconds perpetual calendar, and James's personal favorites: the steel World Time Flyback Chronograph 5935A and the white gold 5204 with olive dial. Throughout their discussion, they explore themes of casualization in high-end watchmaking, the increasing price points across the industry, and what makes certain complicated watches resonate emotionally versus technically. Ben advocates for authentic, worn vintage pieces over mint condition, while James reveals his deep appreciation for Patek's travel time complications and classic dial aesthetics. The conversation showcases their different perspectives—Ben as a seasoned collector with Patek experience, James as an enthusiastic observer—while maintaining an accessible, honest tone about the realities of ultra-luxury watchmaking.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| James Stacy | This episode of Hodinky Radio is proudly brought to you by Accutron and their latest collaboration, the Accutron La Polina SpaceView 2020. That's right, Accutron has partnered with the well-known cigar brand for a brown-toned limited edition that comes with some very interesting. extras So be sure to stay tuned for more details later in the show. Hey, it's me, James Stacy, and this week's episode is a fun chat between myself and Hodinki's founder Ben Clymer. We met up in Los Angeles earlier this week to chat about the latest and special chronograph complications from Omega and Patek's recent run of releases, including the 5811G, the Wild 5373P, and a whole bunch more. Two things to note before we dive in. First, the Hodinki shop is an authorized retailer for Omega, and second, this episode has some bad language. So if you or those with an earshot are sensitive to such things, please consider yourself warned. Other than that let's get to it all right Ben we're coming live from my hotel room in LA I'm in James Stacy Hotel Room, ladies. Don't get uh too expensive. Exactly. Uh but we're in LA and and the the interesting thing is we kind of came here with kind of no idea what we were gonna see. We knew it was for Omega. Correct. And obviously if you've listened to the intro or you've seen the title for the show, I'm sure it gives away some of this. But it turns out they brought a bunch of people to LA to the Walt Disney, you know, big theater. In downtown LA. Yeah. And showed off kind of a heavy hitter new complication |
| Ben Clymer | . I mean, I would say who knows what you're ever gonna walk into at a watchman, right? Like you just have no idea what our our friends of Switzerland could be up to. Yeah. Omega is a top-tier brand, so you would assume it's gonna be something, you know, significant and high end, which that this has been for sure. I don't think either one of us could have anticipated that we were going to see a five hundred and seventy-five component basically repeating split second chronographs in the case of a speedmaster and basically a pocket watch. Yeah |
| James Stacy | . But we did. There was some uh teasers online and one of them showed like a button that has a musical note, a single musical note on it, but with the case of a speedy, and you're kinda like, why would you make a speedy repeater? Right. Wh |
| Ben Clymer | ich makes w which makes v very little sense. And I think it's amazing, like whether there's like kind of corporate communication, then there's like real communication, even from the very top. And there was a great example of that today, where like in this presentation from Omega, there was a line that said Omega created the very first repeating wristwatch, which is like true-ish. And then we were with with Reynolds Eshelman, who's the the global CEO and somebody that I think we all know pretty well. And he said, Yes, this is true, but everybody knows it was really an automatic gate movement. And I think like that is the type of stuff that I wish we had more of. First of all, so credit to Drainal there for sure. But th there's no real reason why a speedmaster should have a minute repeater. There's no history, there's no lineage there. There's no there's no real reason for that |
| James Stacy | . Right. And the truth is of the matter of at least for today, is it doesn't. Correct. So they got, right? Exactly. And so what we got is called the Chrono Chime. It's in two models, like Ben alluded to, kind of a uh nineteen thirty-two style, essentially a uh pocket watch with a strap, and then uh what is essentially a modern speedmaster or a uh two nine nine eight derived speedmaster case style. Yeah, |
| Ben Clymer | and and I'll say like thank thank God for the latter. When I was sitting there in the presentation, I was like, wow, this is legitimately the craziest thing I've seen from a major, like, you know, kind of like a non-langa, non-text style watch manufacturer in in half a decade. Uh and then I was sitting there like, damn, like they're just wasting it on this case that effectively will not be appealing in at all to a guy like you or me. For sure. Basically anybody under the age of sixty or seventy. And then they dropped the speedmaster version of it. And I was like, Oh, okay. Like that that |
| James Stacy | makes sense to me. Yeah. And the adventuring dial, which of course we've seen on QPs in the past, like it's it's something they do kind of hang on to for special things. Mm-hmm. They're forty five millimeters wide. I don't have the exact specs. The press release is is kind of in my inbox. Uh, we're we're digesting this pretty quickly, but it's around 17 millimeters thick. Yeah. But the thing to consider here is they both use the same movement. It's called the caliber 1932. It's a hand-wound movement, which all on its own is 9.05 millimeters thick. Like Ben said, 575 components, a lot of them made out of 18 karat sedina gold, 60 hours of power reserve, it's uh master chronometer, uh meta certified, so 15,000 Goss, 13 patents represented in this movement, which is currently only in two watches. And I actually buried the lead on this one because it's a five hertz coaxial. But if you're coaxial nerd, that is a generational jump for that mov |
| Ben Clymer | ement. It is. And I think, you know, there there was another journalist in our group that that, you know, I would say, you know, pointedly um remarked that like, does this mean that we're gonna see that uh escapement in a C Master or a Speedmaster. If we did that that as you said, that would be that would be a meaningful jump for |
| James Stacy | ward if you're an omega nut or not. So the project of this whole movement, the nineteen thirty two caliber, is about six or seven years in the running and obviously all these patents and the and the big thing was moving to five hertz so that they could do one tenth of a second. Right. Which they're kind of crossing the connections for this line, but it a lot of it is for their first time as the official uh timekeeper for the Olympics, which was nineteen thirty-two. And then you also have where they made the first kind of pocket watches with a strap that were also repeaters. Correct, yes. So they're mixing chronograph and repeaters, and what you get is a chrono trime. In in case the name isn't obvious, it it's kind of wild that it's even possible, mechanically speaking. Wild. But you run your chronograph, and then when you've measured what you want and it's a split second chronograph, then you hit their button for the repeater and it's not a slide, it's a button. And then it it reads you the chronograph measure. |
| Ben Clymer | Right. And it it it's amazing that in the year 2022 that nobody has thought of that, or not thought of that, but executed that. Yeah. Uh it's a little bit like when Longa did the double split and then the triple split. It's like, oh, like that makes sense, right? Like split seconds is actually not all that useful unless you're timing something sub one minute, uh, which is not that much in in today's day and age. Um it's amazing that nobody had come this far. I I think you know there there's like the intellectual kind of side of me which is like okay, like the idea of like a chiming wash in a split second is just bizarre because like chiming is like the most emotional kind of romantic, like you know, high high high complication. And a split secondond or rotrop is also a very high complication, but like the most kind of like hyper masculine, like we're gonna fucking time a race, you know? Um, so putting them together like doesn't make a lot of sense from like a traditionalist standpoint, but from a watchmaking Omega Speedmaster standpoint, it makes a whole hell of a lot |
| James Stacy | of sense. Right. And when you consider the fact that Omega is a brand that really likes to do a lot of different models, they have a lot of SKUs. And you can kind of get almost anything you want in a speedy s uh Seamaster, et cetera. Yep. This represents kind of a pinnacle for them in terms of both price point and complication. The rest of it, you know, these are the better part of a half a million dollars. Yeah. Yeah. They're you know, they were saying comfortably four hundred fifty thousand dollars depending on your currency in in that range, dollars, euros, et cetera. Sure. They also went like a step above in terms of finishing. They went a step above in terms of all all sorts of uh little elements that that kind of weigh in on on the experience of the watch. Yeah. I I like an adventuring dial quite a bit. Me too. They have a lot of impact. It is kind of like looking starry. And then as a watch photographer, I love it because I don't have to remove dust because you can't tell what's dusty or what not. It turns out James Stacey only wears venturing dials. It's a quiet secret. I've never put any on Instagram. Yeah. So I'm I'm curious, Ben, because like I I I can sit here at like an as a sort of pseudo-academic level and read stats off my computer screen, but like I'm not a minute repeater guy necessarily. I have no personal experiences with them. But we need to change that. I think a minute repeater, I'm comfortable saying it's something you work up to. Yes. In in your experience, how do you think it sounded? Where do you where do you think it kind of stacks up? Because they made a point about saying that the using the same metal, the sed and a gold for the case, the the gongs, a bunch of the movement, yeah allows for a certain resonance that you wouldn't get with platinum, for example. What do you think? Yeah, I I thought it I th |
| Ben Clymer | ought it sounded great. Um I think it's important to note that finishing while excellent, truly excellent, is not Patek Langa, you know, P level, really. And I don't think that was the intent. Uh and on top of that, of course you're getting a whole new complication, not just a minute repeater, with a split second chronograph. So I just want to keep everything relative here so that like you kind of |
| James Stacy | like you get what you pay for, so to speak. Yeah, the achievement of the minute repeater is is almost secondary to what they did with the rest of the movie. And so I think like relative |
| Ben Clymer | to like, you know, the the three repeaters in my mind that I think of often would be any APs derived from the supersonary, any Patek, my favorite being the fifty-seventy-eight, which is the the simple time only, you know, it looks like a just a little calatrava, but it's got a slide on it, uh, which is lovely sounding. And then the most recent Langa miner repeater that was just last year. Uh those and then the 4261 background, but that's old, so it doesn't really count. But it I wouldn't say it was in in the league of the protect the langa or the ap, but I don't think even Omega themselves would would kind of suppose that it that it should be. It's amazing for what it is when you consider who they are and what else you get. And again, this isn like't we're comparing a a a chiming watch that is dramatically different than any of those three watches that I just mentioned. So I thought it sounded great, but I think like you know the the the real takeaway there with with this production is that like Omega continues to do stuff that like you just like wouldn't expect them to do. And you know, I it reminded me of a product that came out in 2018 that where they basically re-uh revived an original Omega chronograph movement from 1913. I don't know if you remember that. Only vaguely, yeah. So it came out in 2018. We wrote about it. This is in the same sort of like pocket watch aesthetic trench watch. Yeah. Yeah. So Omega was an early innovator in chronographs. I I think obviously. Uh and so, you know, they had this 18-line chronograph, the CHRO, that was really, you know, kind of something that was kind of like at the genesis of of wrist-bound chronographs. And they remade it. They, you know, a lot like the 321. This was kind of the precursor to 321. Uh they remade it in 2018 with an enamel dial and with like you know hot horology finishing, and it was $120,000. And I remember when that came out, I'm actually looking at the story from 2018 right now. You know, the comments are exactly what you'd expect, which is I you know, I agree with so and so that it's overpriced, looks really cool, but $120,000 for an omega, like there's room for people to kind of push upward. And I think if you looked at that omega from two thousand eighteen, like and you compared it to, I don't know, like say fifty one seventy from Patek or 5270, whatever, like it it is at the same level. And by the way, like it's kind of more interesting because it's not what you would expect. You know, so this is a 400 and we'll say 400 plus thousand dollar watch, but you're getting something that is completely new and different. And on that level, I get it. You know, am I running out to to to spend my hard earned money on it? Like I'm not. But they're only making how many this year? Three? Oh, it I think they said like eight was gonna be the wall. Right. Yeah, yeah. So the th I I think the number was two to three by end of this year, like they're already done basically. |
| James Stacy | And I think we saw two of them today. Those are production watches. They were very serious about the fact that we were not seeing prototypes, which I respect so much. Dude, we we all respect |
| Ben Clymer | that. I mean, like I think there there was was a period of of my career, I think maybe a little bit before certainly we worked together, but you were probably in the industry somewhere working I was kicking around. Yeah, kicking around. But these guys would pr produce these bananas, crazy concept watches, and they were fucking amazing. And back then, like that was when like Max and Irwork and all these independents were really starting to take off. We're like, wow, like this, this Harry Winston or this so-and-so is just gonna like revolutionize independent watchmaking. And then the watches were never made. Yeah. You know, or one was made and it went back to service a thousand times. And that was a little bit of Jorn in the early days and all that. Yeah, or they made five, they went to the four people who actually wore them and those all broke. Exactly. Yeah, and then now they're in a drawer somewhere. Yeah. Oh, they'll show up at Antiquorum or something. Um, you know, it's it's this is a really different thing. And like if you know anything about Omega and Reynold, like this is, you know, a top-tier mass production company that will make shit work no matter what. You know, and like I've got a speed master on that I bought in two thousand four in two thousand eighteen and like I haven't serviced it once. It's only been four years, but like I bet this goes ten years without a service. And my guess is that these watches will work incredibly well, probably much more so than the Longa, the the paddock, or the AP that I mentioned earlier. But I think like what's important to note is like Omega basically did two presentations today. One for us in the afternoon, like you know, the the lowly journalists, the guys that are the bloggers basically. Knuckleheads. Exactly. And in the morning they did it for clients. And we're talking end clients, not retailers, like people that could buy this stuff and would buy this stuff. And, you know, we'll see tonight we're going to be intermingling. We'll be coming with with these folks. And I'll be interested to see what what people have to say about it. And we'll see if there are any takers. They have two or three this year. I'm sure they're already already sold. I've spent my life on it. And you know, it's it's this is going to be a fun story to come out, which will be published by the time this this this pod comes out. You can predict the comments. Like I could write the comments right now, you know, like it's it's it's completely predictable. Um, but you know, it's one of those things. It's a little bit like sting. Like not, you know, not for me necessarily, but like appreciate |
| James Stacy | that that the this watch exists for sure. Absolutely. And uh I mean look, I I think that's probably all we need to say about the chrono chime. We'll have more on the site, obviously. I think that there's pretty in depth sort of technical story to be t told here. Yeah. You know, uh imagine like the the central turbine stuff, but to a diff |
| Ben Clymer | erent level. Yeah, I mean, so the last thing I'll say about it, and I've got a doc in front of me here. I'm just going to rattle off some stuff just because, you know, just because like just to kind of like put a fine point on it. So hand wound, 575 components, 60 hour power reserve, which is insane for a split second chiming watch, 15,000 Gauss, 13 patents, 5 Hertz coaxial with a tenth of a second capability in the chronograph, mono pusher, vertical clutch. It's just this is this is real watchmaking, you know, and it's is it the finest finished? Probably not, but it still looks great. I mean it actually it slightly reminiscent of the Langa Ratrapont from a few years ago with that kind of like frosting finish. Yep. Looks amazing for for an omega. It looks amazing, period. And I think it's just it really is like a tour de force, I would say |
| James Stacy | . It's time for our ad break, and we're thrilled to have Accutron supporting yet another episode of Hodinky Radio. This week we're talking about a special, limited edition collaboration that Accutron has created with the cigar brand Lapolina. Limited to just 222 units, the Accutron Lapolina SpaceView 2020 has a brown accented dial and comes on a brown leather strap. Measuring 43.5mm wide and housing both Accutron's eye-catching electrostatic movement and a special caseback design celebrating the collaboration, the watch is only part of the story, as each example will also come with a custom-designed humidor, a cigar cutter, and 10 cigars for your collection. With a unique dial execution in these exciting extras, the Accutron Lap Palina SpaceView 2020 Limited Edition is sure to be a hit with those who love to sit back and talk watches while enjoying a great cigar. You can learn more in the show notes or by visiting AccutronWatch.com. A big thanks to Accutron for their continued support And then I think the other thing that I want to get to, it's also in the same document which we're reading from are these new Pateks because Patek did the big drop |
| Ben Clymer | . Like a bunch of watches. Yeah, it's a whole bunch of watches, like and like kind of none of them matter, if that makes any sense, you know? And you know, there's no bigger Patek dork than me. Uh, but yeah, this was like a really unex |
| James Stacy | citing bunch of watches for me. So I was traveling when this happened, when this dropped, I was bouncing between Geneva and Frankfurt as I do occasionally, and I got assigned a story, and we'll get to these watches in a minute, but I got assigned a story, and when I looked through the press release of all these watches, I was like, Oh, I think I got assigned the two watches I like the most from these. And which are they? Uh which is the the new uh World Time Flyback chronograph the, 5935A, which is now in steel. I'm obsessed. I think it's awesome. I'm I'm just a deep sucker for Patek World Times. It would be if I ever achieve like a certain level of status, I'd be thrilled to be able to own one. For this? For any of these, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the the new fifty two oh four with an olive dial uh in uh in white gold, right? But I think the the big headline, of course, is a new Nautilus, the fifty-eight eleven G. So it's white gold, it's a millimeter bigger. The the reason that I I kind of saved some of these to talk about on the show, or I'm happy about the timing, is because like let's be honest, like I'm not a Patek guy, I've never owned one. Uh my my interest in them is kind of like my interest in supercars. I like the stats and I like considering what I might be kind of keyed into if I could. But like that's a different you're you're on the opposite side of that line from me. I'd I'd I'd love to know like from your perspective how you see any of these. You said that none of these were like necessarily jaw-dropping things for for you and your taste. Like how's the fifty eight ele |
| Ben Clymer | ven hit for you? It doesn't hit. I mean it's like it's a it's a great watch. I mean I've s I feel like I've done this exact podcast probably five times before. And that's not that's not a statement on you at all, but it's like the Nautilus is an amazing watch. I have one. I'm always gonna have one. I if somebody offered me this watch, I would buy it in a heartbeat and I would love it forever. Sure. But it's not like it's just not exciting to me the way that that the first Nautilus is, if that makes sense. Like uh you know, baby's first Nautilus is it's one millimeter larger. It's the same movement, right? Um you know, it's white gold. I've owned a white gold nautilus in the past. They're awesome. But I just don't care. And do you think this is the long lead? Like the steal's coming, obviously, at some point. Who knows? There was some quote somewhere. I don't know if it was on our site or in the FT with Nick, I I don't know where it was, but I could have sworn somewhere that Thierry said that steel is not coming anytime soon, that they made enough steel watches. But don't quote me on that. We can fact check that before it goes out. But you know, is it titanium? Is it some other like lightweight metal? They will they will do a non-precious, like there's no question about that.. They have to That's what the Nautilus is. A titanium would be something to think about. Be neat. Yeah. And like we've started to see some people like Langa did the Odysseus and Titanium. Um, you know, there's boys at a good watch on wrist. That watch does not communicate in a PDF on your screen. I I don't think there's a w a watch that's communicated worse relative to how good the watch is than the Odysseus. That watch, when you see it in a PDF or on the like the soldiers like man, they really fucking miss this thing. And you put it on, it's like, damn. This is so good. The finishing is crazy. |
| James Stacy | It's it's longa. You know, it's like you kinda you know exactly what you're doing there. For titanium, I feel like I've only seen finishing like that from David Toon. Yeah. Like really pushes the limit on how much you can pull out of titanium. |
| Ben Clymer | Because I have one, which would be the RD two. Like that's titanium baseless. But you know, AP knows how to finish some some titanium for sure. Uh anyway, so fifth 5811 G is a big fat, whatever. I would still I would still like you know again uh to be clear if if there are any ads out there that want to offer me one like I'll buy it like I will happily buy it and I' |
| James Stacy | d happily wear it. Does the price point make sense in the in the current pinpoint of like today's trajectory of a fifty of something like a 57 Eleven but now modern or or the newest vers |
| Ben Clymer | ion. I mean it's it's everything is punchy today. And like we get a whole nother podcast about this. Like the Cartier Pebble, which I also love, is a $42,000 watch. Like that's insane for that. That's a piaget-based movement, a tiny little chunk of gold. And granted, it's like a complex-ish case, but like that watch to me, it went like before I knew the price, I would have said like 22, 23. It's double that, you know? So like this watch being 69, we'll call it 70. Like when I bought, I say this all the time. When I bought my 5711 Rose, also gold, no more or less expensive than white gold. It was I think 52 retail, and I paid slightly less than that. So this is 50%, effectively 50% more than that. The world has changed. They can get it, right? |
| James Stacy | So who are we to say was too expensive? Oh yeah. No. I mean it it becomes the one of the most nebulous conversations you can have about any watch is like what it cost costs. Its what's what people will pay for it. And I know that's like it's almost trite. Yeah. But we're also talking about Patek. Like that's literally their market. They will charge what someone will pay for. |
| Ben Clymer | That it is. And like Patek is not Rolex or Omega. You know, Patek is for Petech is 1% of 1%. You know, this is not this is not like hey, I did good this year. I'm going to go to the code. |
| James Stacy | Like if if you want to sit with me and argue about how a Seiko is $500 overpriced, I'm here for it. Yeah. Let's grab a beer and have the conversation. The numbers don't matter attached to these watches to some extent. |
| Ben Clymer | Yeah, this is a rich man's brand and like that it always has been, it always will be. And yeah, I mean seventy thousand bucks for a white gold nautilus, again I'd bet, you know, and I think anybody that if if if anybody got offered one, even if they couldn't afford it, they would try as hard as they could to find a way to buy |
| James Stacy | it for sure. All right. So then almost exactly the same money. A hair thin, a hair less, eleven hundred dollars less for the new fifty nine ninety A. I just I I don' don't |
| Ben Clymer | t I just don't get it. I mean there's so much stuff that I don't get in the watchmaking world. Were you a 5990 fan, period, or not really that? Yeah, I I like it. I mean it's it's travel time with cornograph. Like those are two things that like speak to me for sure. When they first came out, there was a lot of pushback from me and others that it was too chunky, but like you know, now it's whatever. So was like this watch was effectively discontinued and then not? Right? It was yeah, it was |
| James Stacy | it was like the the line was flat and they just the lat the last fibulator brought it back. Yeah. With a new dial. I I don't have much to say here either. Honestly. I mean, I I like the fifty nine ninety. I think they're cool. I'm I'm a um uh an I will probably forever, if I ever get the opportunity, let's let's put this way in the future, be a Nautilus guy, uh be an aquanut guy. Yeah, I know you like the fifty one sixty four. But there's something kind of very aquanautty about a fifty-nine ninety. Yep. Yep. Could just be the travel time and I'm just conflat |
| Ben Clymer | ing, but no, it it you you you're're not and again like that you know the I I make this kind of joke all the time and I will certainly be offending some people I know here but like I get I get like friends and enemies and people I've met once or twice saying, like, oh, like, you know, bro, can you help me get a 5164 or 5990? Because like it really just fits my lifestyle. Like I travel and like it's sporty and I'm sporty. You know, it's like that type of shit. And the 5990 and the 5164, it's the same boat, you know? It's like that like you know, it's and we all know those guys. We've actually been around some of those guys in the past, you know, a few days. And uh no big deal. But it's like, yeah, they're they're cool watches, they're great watches. I've I've owned a fifty one sixty four R. Great watch. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, you let me review that one. I I enjoyed I enjoyed my time with it. Cool watch. A big big fan for sure. Uh moving on. Feel any specific way about the 5712? It looks killer, right? I mean, like the the It's not too brown for it's too |
| Ben Clymer | brown for me. Uh I mean I you like the double brown. Yeah. The 57 R 5711 R. Like that's one of my favorite watches, you know? Um no, I'm I'm a fan. I I like it a lot. |
| James Stacy | Yeah, I I find that the this is like a aesthetically, and I you know, I just look at Patek from a catalog level, but the weirdness of the dial has really grown on me in the last five years. Yeah, I mean it's asymmetric, it's just it's just it's just odd. I mean, again, it's a nautilus on a bracelet, it's gonna go crazy. For sure.. All right Let's get to uh you want to talk weird. Let's get to the Destro 5373P. Yeah. I mean, what a weird fucking thing this is. Yeah |
| Ben Clymer | . So, you know, this watch has existed in the 5372P for I don't know as long as as I can remember. But this is a watch that you know I talk about often like people like oh you know AP and Langar better than protect, blah blah blah. And I think that might be true up to a certain price point, but there are protects that like kind of like dial it up to eleven. And once you cross the half a million dollar price point, and I know how ridiculous that sounds, Patek is in a league of its own. And the fifty three seventy two has always been in a league of its own. I it is just a different thing, you know? It's uh it's ultra thin split second perpetual calendar. Maybe not the best looking. Apertures are a little wonky here and there, but the fact that they just redid it with a left-handed crown, right? Is fascinating. |
| James Stacy | That watch of all. Why would you do that one? And like not only just the left, it's not that just a left hand crown with the blue dial, like you have a slight gray dial, red accents. Yeah. Very sporty. Extremely sporty. Kinda kind of feels like a sibling in a weird way to the um what was the the triple date QP chrono? Uh annual calendar chrono. Oh uh with the gray and red. Yeah. Yes. Yes, that. Yeah. Okay. I'm I'm sorry, jet lag |
| Ben Clymer | 's getting me, because that's one I like. I I don't know the price. We could look it up somewhere, but like this is a high six figures watch. Yep. And so to do it like this, look, I uh you know, we've talked about this for years, but like I appreciate that Patek is making cool shit and this is cool in the sense like this is real high-end watchmaking that caters to guys like us with just a lot more money, like young guys, you know. So I respect that, but he's a lot more money. Exactly. Uh it's just bizarre that that they would just make this watch of all things left-handed, but respect it. And again, like, you know, this is kind of like Ferrari-ified, you know, it's like kind of far carbon fibery and like kind of I forgot this isn't the strap, kind of Kev |
| James Stacy | lary looking or something like that. It has a texture and has a bright red stitching. Yeah. So the other thing with this would be, you know, obviously with my proclivities, if like the 5960, which is the reference we're searching for and you just reminded me of, we did a post years and long before I shouldn't we, you did a post or Hodinki did post before my time with a fifty-nine sixty on a greenado. Yeah. And I loved it. And like I think this could do the same thing. William Roar. Yeah, yeah. |
| Ben Clymer | Yeah. It was I can tell you a funny story, but not a funny story, but a story about that. It's actually not funny. It might be interesting. It was two thousand and ten or eleven. Okay. A guy named Jason Heaton, may have heard of him. I know. A guy named Blake Bettner. Oh, I know. So we did like a little hodinky academy in New York City and we flew him in. And mind you, like this is when like our office was my apartment on Jones Street, nineteen Jones Street. And uh I was like, Hey, you gotta meet this guy, like he's kinda like a friend slash mentor, his name's William. So we go go to the sew house, and this was like, you know, when Sew House was like a cool thing. And William shows up wearing a fifty-nine six and a NATO strap. And that was just like mind blowingly cool to us. You know, just mind and that you know that watch was trading for still so cool for me. Yeah.. Sure But that watch, you know, he like we didn't, you know, we didn't see watch like that often back then. But that watch at the time was a dud, you know, it was trading for well below retail, etc. And that was fucking cool. And then we got really drunk and went to Corner Bistro and had hamburgers and he was wearing his 5960 on a NATO. I like it. And uh yeah, that was one of those moments that I shall never forget. We should get a b |
| James Stacy | urger after this. We should. All right. So then we get to the two that I sp I wrote about. Uh let's start with the fifty-two oh four. Um, in in my mind, and and again, you I defer to your knowledge, like for me, this feels like a like a progressive casualization of the continuation of the 5000 and four. They're making it a little bit more chill, it's a little closer to steel, the olive green dial. It' |
| Ben Clymer | s cool. I mean, it's uh so much money. I mean, I mean the spl split second perpetuals from paddock have always been really expensive. I mean, Mayer wrote that story for us on 1010 about like watches that like if Instagram existed when these were out, they would just have been crazy. Five thousand four, he mentions. Five thousand four was uh the watch. I mean that was like year, I mean fifty-nine seventy was kind of the watch. Five thousand four was like, you're John Mayer, you know, or you're Eric Clapton. Like you're not like you're not like just a successful dude. You were like beyond the man if you have a five thousand four. Uh and it was iconic and it was small and weird, and it was like a little hamburger with like, you know, like stacked up. And the fifty-two oh four just never, and I think John mentions in this right, just never hit the same way. It's a little softer, a little bit bigger, it just doesn't have the same kind of like cool factor. And the world has moved on. Like complications are just not mostly a timing thing? Be |
| James Stacy | cause like 40, the difference between what's a 5000 and 4 385? 36. Oh really? Dude, it's a 3970. We |
| Ben Clymer | should try and get a picture of those next to each other. Yeah. That'd be a fun post. Yeah. We I mean we used to we we've done some stuff with five thousand fours a bunch in the past. They're amazing watches because they're thirty six millimeters, but like that thick. That last the last fifty in steel with the white dial on the black furniture. So good. Get out of town. Black furniture, that's good. So the fifty two oh four just like never really hit and like it's a great watch and has like obviously like technically a great watch. And I think a nice looking watch, but just never hit the right way. I think we're starting to get there and I think I don't know what you just how did you just describe like the just casualization |
| James Stacy | . Casualization. Well, because like you look at how popular steel watches have been. Yeah. And it changed. I think it changed a little bit of the market for things like a five thousand four enjoyed a time when that sort of watch was considered the peak.. Yeah Now we're into uh uh especially I think through COVID, we're in the the still a more of a casual phase when it comes to like it's sport watches, it's steel watches, and these I don't think that the the core of the audience for these has changed at all. It's the same people, but the greater attention is maybe moved to a different thing. I think you're right |
| Ben Clymer | . I think the core audience is exactly who it was before, which was like mostly older men in finance or legal professions or whatever, you know, private equity. But the five thousand four and fifty nine seventy and fifty two seventy and all the the big boy panics historically come on shiny, I'm talking shiny crocodile straps. Right. Right. And so now all of a sudden you're like that alone is a is a market change for Patek and so welcomed uh to see these watches coming on like canvas-y or just calf style strap, like tan calf. Nubuck. Yeah, new buck, whatever. Like these are just nice casual things that like you could conceivably wear with a t-shirt and jeans. A shiny blue or black or brown crock strap is like pretty hard to pull off uh with the t-shirt and jeans. And so it's just nice to see this. And as you said, like now that with a green dial and white gold, like it's a nice looking watch and it'll it might jump start it a little bit in the same way that like the fifty two seventy, which is the non split perpetual drono, that was kind of a dud for a long long Oh really? Yeah it was kind of a dud as well. Like nobody really just took it s that seriously. And then they did the the platinum salmon. Right. And now they have the platinum green and now it's an application piece and incredibly hot |
| James Stacy | . Oh, okay. That was when when I first got into watches and like started to be assigned stories about Pateka brand I knew very little about, but you know, kind of understood the cult around them like a fifty two seventy that the first series with the white dial. It was I those uh definitely something I had as like a wallpaper. Ye. |
| Ben Clymer | ah It's always been an exceptional watch. Um, it always just kind of like paled relative to the 5970. But like there were moments where that 5270G, the first one, was trading for like 85,000 bucks. Wow. And now, you know, it's back up to regional more |
| James Stacy | . But yeah, and I think the strap thing is kind of an interesting concept because of course we I I I'm sure it's happened before, but for me, the the suede strap, the new buck strap, that thing kind of hit earlier this year when they did the fifth uh the five two six G, the new Calatrava, which is like arguably a field watch, but made by the one of the finest names in watchmaking. Yeah. Just kind of antithetical and fun, and it feels like they almost leaned harder into the Calatrava travel time, the pilots watch. I uh the rep the several references are now failing me from 2016, 2017 into something that was even more casual, even more everyday. And then we see this strap, the sort of suede look strap on this new world timer. It's it's one of the two options. Both are very casual, but even on the suede, it's like extra casual. So it's a 5935A. So it's a steel case, it's 41 millimeters. Uh has a rose gilt dial with a kind of carbon motif in the center. Did they call it carbon? That's what they said. Carbon motif, their words. Okay. And um and then charcoal markers. So the the hands and markers it's cool and it's you know it's my favor |
| Ben Clymer | ite of the bunch yeah I could see that and I think like that's the point is appealing to like young younger dudes like you and we were with somebody earlier today who's got like exceptional taste and ability to buy watches and he has one on order already and like you know that's that's the pick of the litter for for most guys I would |
| James Stacy | say. Yeah I mean I I I I could go on for a while and I have certainly in text on the site about uh just how much I enjoy uh a Cautier style world timer. Like it just it it represents an era that's kind of gone. And sure, like now they're compromised. We have several time zones that are 15 and 30 minutes. Nevertheless, I still think that it it's it's so much of um it's a watch that never really left aesthetically never really left the time in which it made sense and that's what I like about dive watches and I think that's why from the dressier complicated side of the world I attached |
| Ben Clymer | to world timers. I get that. I mean it it really is extremely romantic and like it really like early days a jet set type of type of like uh cosplay and it it's awesome. Like there I I'm right there with you and the world time is one of the most romantic uh complications. Have you owned any of these? World time? No, never have. I've I've on travel time, but never world time. It's it's another one. Like the you know, the the vintage world times, like the 2523s are like multi-million dollar watches. So obviously never those. And then again, it's like the 5110s Ps' and like the the kind of like early two thousands, mid two thousands. Those were kind of like the ultimate financey broy watch, you know? And so that was kind of a turnoff. But these are coming around in a |
| James Stacy | really great way for sure. Yeah. I find I I do kind of attach, I don't know why and I haven't quite decided because like the vintage ones that have the world, the enamel world or whatever in the center, the globe. Yeah, I like that. But on a newer watch I like not having it. Agreed. I agree |
| Ben Clymer | . But the the other thing, and this is like such a this is like one of the more obnoxious things I'm gonna say today or this weekend is it's a Tuesday. It's a Tuesday. The world times I struggle with a little bit because, and don't kill me for this, commenters, there's no place to stamp Tiffany. Oh, |
| James Stacy | okay. See that I mean that that's the value, like if I provide anything to put in gradients that I would have never never once thought of that. Yeah. And that's why it's nice to occasionally sit down to you. I never I I never considered that would matter. Well, I mean it to be clear, it doesn't to like |
| Ben Clymer | 99%. But it's that ner it's that nerdy. Yeah, well it's you know, again, like I've bought effectively all of my monopor protects from Tiffany. Okay. And if you can't get it stamped, what are you even doing? You know, and I don't actually mean that, of course, like that's a joke. |
| James Stacy | Um when you play at a certain level, like when you're when you're in that deep and that specific, then I could see it making a difference, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well it's like I mean, you know, it's |
| Ben Clymer | like if you're gonna if you're gonna buy a GT3, like you want it without the wing, you know, like you just like if you're gonna do it, like get exactly what you want, you know, and like no matter how much money I might ever have or you might ever have or anything like a patek is a lot of money. So much. And so it's just like, damn, like you want exactly what you want. And so if you if you care about that, Tiffany, and most people don't, obviously, but if you do, then like you should you should get one with that, you know, if you can. Um so world times don't don't have that ability, which is that's a bummer. Uh but I would get over it for the right watch. And th this one in steel is defin |
| James Stacy | itely cool. I think it'd be sweet for sure. All right. Uh question to close it out, and I didn't I did not uh prep you for this. Okay. Um but if you if you were to if you could do a dream patek, yeah. Uh one off, what what are you asking for? Oh, interesting. I |
| Ben Clymer | mean, there's so many. It's probably a split second of some variety. It it what's weird is like it might be a fifty two oh four, okay, but in like a totally different case with a totally different dial in the case. So that movement but then something else. Well yeah, I mean look, th there are you know, there there are there they're basically the movement that we talked about. Like there's thinner, kind of higher end versions of that, but then we're talking about half a million dollars plus and like that is so beyond reality. Funny. Me coming up with Hodinky, like 5004 was the the king shit watch, you know? Anything beyond that was like that's kind of crazy. Like, what are we even talking? It's like this is a spaceship now, you know? Okay. So the split second perpetual is something that would be really compelling to me. Or 5370, uh, which is the split just the split. You know, remember that watch with the enamel dial. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. That was lovely. Something like that could be cool. I don't know. I mean, I I love the 50, like the standard chronograph, 52, what is that 5172? Um, you know, I've I've given some thought. I've I've thought about doing custom world time stuff for sure in like cities that would be meaningful to me. 5078G, which is a repeater we talked about earlier, I think is about as elegant as a watch can be today. And nobody really talks about 'em. Just stealthy. Too stealthy. Yeah. I mean, it's like these are they're four hundred thousand dollar watches. My goodness. For for but they're mini-repeaters. But they're mini-repeaters, yeah. Sure, yeah. What's money? Yeah. But I think you know a custom 5078 G would be right up there as well. I mean, I'm I'm into like the stealth stuff. Uh but there's not one like there's not one special thing out there. You know, if like if somebody was like, Hey, you can raid the archives of Patek over the last twenty years, like a steel fifty nine seventy, you know, like that would be that would be right there for sure. Okay. I like it. |
| James Stacy | Yeah. I think for me, I'd be really tempted to see if they could take the look of Briggs Cunningham's 1526, but do a 2597 Series 2. So the early travel time with two hour hands. Okay. So you you came prepared for this though. I I think about it a lot. Like how much? Uh like with some frequency. There's four or five Patek references that I adore. Have you thought about it this trip to Los Angeles? No, I don't. Okay. The question came to me just a a momentgo, but I mean I've had the answer for since you wrote the the Briggs piece. The Briggs Cunningham piece? Yeah. 'Cause I really do uh like I think that's one of the most beautiful watches I've ever seen. Uh huh. Um like I I said in the post that I wrote about these uh two Patek's like I just I love uh uh Patek with the the black hands and markers on a white dial and to see it in a pretty stripped back in the 1526 perpetual calendar. But for me, like the 2597, especially when you see the ones, the later ones that have two hour hands, that kills me. |
| Ben Clymer | 2597 is a really neat watch. I've I've come very close on those many times. And like they're for whatever reason, I just never pulled the trigger or felt like that. Did you know did they make any in steel? I don't I don't know that deep. Cool. Um but they did there was one at Phillips many years ago. They actually came up twice. That was my kind of style watch, which if if you follow this you follow me on this podcast, I talk about all the time, which is like I like original watches, not mint condition watches. Like I don't care if it's been polished once or twice. I like I like wear on the dial. Like it means it's a real watch. There was a really nice, authentic-looking uh 2597 Tiffany signed, and it sold for like just a hundred grand. And I and I have a smile on my face when I say that. Like, you know, like that the estimate or the expectation was I think much higher than that. Yeah. I was like, dam |
| James Stacy | n, that was a watch worth buying. Um, but I didn't. If you don't know that reference, please hit the show notes. It's one of my most favorite watches of all time. Yeah, you've talked about it a bunch. Yeah, it's way too much. Yeah. But I'll wait a few episodes. We'll bring it up in a bit. All right. What do we think? Uh, I think that's an episode, dude. Thanks so much. What a treat. My pleasure. Always, always a pleasure to have you in my hotel room. You're reporting live from a dimly lit James Stacy hotel. It is the sun went down while we were chatting. I think we have to get to dinner for sure. All right, man. Thanks a bunch. And if you're listening, you enjoyed the episode, you know what I asked. Leave a comment, let us know how we're doing. Tell a friend, share it around, and otherwise, we'll talk to you in a couple weeks' time. |