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Geneva Watch Days And Apple Goes Ultra

Published on Sun, 11 Sep 2022 13:00:00 +0000

James, Danny, and Logan chat about their favorite releases from Geneva and what the new Apple Watch Ultra means for the smartwatch category.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host James Stacy reunites with colleagues Logan Baker and Danny Milton after summer break to discuss the latest watch releases from Geneva Watch Days and Apple's newest products. The show is moving to a bi-weekly format for fall but promises to maintain quality content.

Logan provides firsthand coverage from Geneva Watch Days, describing the unique format of the show which takes place across luxury hotels along Lake Geneva rather than traditional convention halls. He highlights standout pieces including the Krayon sunrise/sunset complication, MB&F's split escapement, and the stunning Moser Streamliner with Vantablack dial and rose gold case. The group discusses more accessible releases like the Oris Diver 65 with 12-hour bezel and Calibre 400 movement, and the Doxa Army now available in steel at just over $2,000. They spend considerable time analyzing the new Tudor Pelagos 39, debating its sunburst bezel finish and overall wearability, with consensus that it represents a refined evolution of Tudor's modern sports watch design.

The conversation shifts to haute horology with discussion of Grönefeld's $400,000 1941 Remontoire watch, with the hosts marveling at the brand's extraordinary finishing and craftsmanship. Logan shares insights from visiting the Grönefeld manufacture and the brand's plans to scale production while maintaining quality. The episode concludes with analysis of Apple's new Watch Ultra, a $799 titanium sports watch at 49mm that enters the multi-sport/dive computer market dominated by Garmin and Suunto. The hosts debate whether the Ultra's crown guards, dive computer certification, and robust feature set might appeal to traditional watch enthusiasts, acknowledging the "stickiness" of smartwatch ecosystems while appreciating Apple's design evolution beyond their standard lineup.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacy This episode of Hodinky Radio is proudly brought to you by Hodinki Insurance. It's the fastest, easiest way to insure the watches you love. Get your quote now at Hodinki.com slash insurance. Hey, it's me, James Stacy, and we're back from summer break with a look at a bunch of brand new watches. But before we get to the Leyas from Geneva, Cupertino, and beyond, just a quick note that for the fall schedule, Hodinki Radio will be moving to an every other week format. But don't worry, you'll still get at least two episodes a month and I'll do my best to make them great. Case in point, for this episode, we're chatting about the latest watches announced at or around Geneva Watch Days and some of the latest updates to the Apple Watch. To help me keep the show on track, I'm joined by Logan and Danny, so let's talk about some watches. All right, Logan, Danny, it's been a little while. Glad to have the show back up and running and and uh a pleasure to see both of you guys digitally where Logan
Logan Baker Uh yes sir, yeah. Uh it's good to see you guys. I am back in New York as of last night. I was in Geneva for about seven, eight days, then in New York for forty eight hours, then I flew out to Cupertino to check out the the latest and greatest from Apple. Yeah, back to back in New York and I should be here about ten days, I think. Uh that's not bad. But lovely to see you guys. Maintaining your residency. Yeah. Lovely to see you guys uh vir
James Stacy tually. And Danny, how we doing on your end? Oh doing well. You know, same old, same old. Living the dream. Writing a lot. weeks for for new product and stuff to write about and and that sort of thing. And I want to dig right into it. And and the nice thing is is we've got the man, the man from the source right here with Logan. Uh Logan, you want to kick us off with a little chat about uh Geneva watch days because you're out there and covered the whole thing. And I we really would have uh not had anywhere near as a robust sort of look at the show if if you hadn't been able to get out there. So I thought I thought it turned out really well. Thanks, James. Yeah, it was it's a it
Logan Baker 's an interesting show. Uh uh just for the re i it's the first time that uh Hudenki has sent someone out to the show, which uh kind of started in the middle of the pandemic in 2020 as a result of uh you know the kind of traditional watch shows shutting down, SIHH Basel. SIHH now is of course Watches and Wonders, which we did all attend this year. But Geneva Watch Days was started by Brightling, Bulgary, MBNF, Erwork, maybe half a dozen other brands as a way to kind of welcome in twenty twenty it was it was all Eurocentric Euro euro based journalists and media and uh press and retailers and and last year there was a few people from North America and Asia that came in. And this year, you know, we actually saw kind of a broad base of global international media flock to uh Geneva to attend. And it is quite different than the old shows that we're used to. And even Watches and Wonders, which follows along that same kind of, you know, within a trade show hall, you're running in between appointments, big booths set up. Uh Geneva Watch Days is set up in in all the really really, fancy bougie hotels that are based uh right along Lake Geneva. So you have the the Beau Revoge, you have the Four Seasons, you have uh the Ritz-Carlton, you have three or four others and and all the the brands just set up in in these you know very nice hotel suites that are they're a little old fashioned in in some capacity. You know, they're not like the the high-tech uh New York uh LA San Francisco hotels that you you see when you travel to those big American cities. They're they're still very kind of they feel almost aristocratic in in some capacity, very uh very
James Stacy Rococo, I guess I would say. Yeah, that that's definitely my impression of the Beau Rivage. You're you're walking into marble, basically. It's it might say you know, it's a very beautiful, gorgeous cave, somehow, you know, rendered on the shore of Lake Geneva. Absolutely. No, that's that's that's a wonderful uh
Logan Baker visual description. The Beau Rivage really is the center of the action. There's probably about 20 brands that were set up on you know, like the six or seven floors there. So instead of running in between, you know, huge booths at the Palexpo, which is the big uh the big uh fair grounds in uh in Geneva or the Messeplatz in Basel, you're you're literally running around on the shore of uh of Lake Geneva um to to go in between these different hotels and it's a bit more relaxed but you know, you still wanna meet with as many brands as possible. So, you know, I was I was taking eight to ten meetings per day, you know, each one thirty minutes or an hour, and just having to sprint in between again on the the the shore of Lake Geneva, you know, from one side or to the other. If if brands had boutiques, you know, they would host uh meetings there. But it it it was just uh it was a cool experience. It'
James Stacy s a less corporate show, I would say. That's cool. And and what I thought was interesting was you never really know what you're gonna get from the Geneva shows. I mean, we're getting a broader range of product these days from Watches and Wonders because Basel World isn't a presence anymore. But with these ones, you know, for a long time, SHH was the fancy stuff. You know, it was a lot of luxury brands, it was a lot of the higher-end stuff. And if you're if you're a sport watch guy, if you're dive watch nerd, like that sort of thing, like you you kind of felt like, well, these are amazing things, but it's more hypothetical product than it is something that I can get really jazzed about. We got a handful of pretty interesting watches, uh kind of in in a big spectrum. Uh Logan, I'd love to start like what what what um what can you not really get out of your mind since you got back from uh from Geneva? What what stands out to you? I
Logan Baker I will say that it did feel a lot like the SIHH of your in the fact that it w it was a lot of very expensive uh you know luxury brands, you know, talking about six figure watches. Um but instead of it being you know heavy on the Richmond side of things, it was um, you know, a lot of independence. So yeah, MBNF, uh work, uh, Moser. Uh one of my favorite watches that I saw uh was from uh the independent uh crayon. Uh I hope I said that right. It isn't a crown, so there's no Crayola action here. Um but they have this just really brilliant sunrise sunset complication. And it's been out for about two years, but this is the first time I I had the chance to see it in person. And it's just so simple. You know, it's like the equation of time complication in some respects, in that you do have to have it mechanically set to the the area where you want the sunset sunrise, sunset complication. But the nice thing is uh is that once it's set, you don't have to mess with it at all. You can change it backward or forward. You know, it you can go back in time without an issue. And it's under 10 millimeter and it's just, you know, the finish is brilliant. The dial is extremely attractive. That was one of my favorites. Um I thought it was great to see the split escapement from MB and F. Oh yeah, that must have been fun to see in person. Yeah, yeah. And they've had such a strong year with uh the first chronograph which came out back in J June.ust a great to catch up with those guys. Yeah, and then on the kind of other end of the spectrum, Moser with the Vantablack Dial and the Red Gold. You know, I've said this on the record before, but Moser was a company that I've always uh appreciated and enjoyed, but they've never I've never really had a release from them that just kind of blew me away and and was like, okay, this is a grail. But this year they've had two of those with the cylindrical Torbillon that came out at Watches and Wonders, which I just found to be one of the most kind of captivating exercises in in Torbillon uh watchmaking, particularly just from the the visual standpoint, um, you know, from the technical side, Group always does really interesting stuff. But just visually, that spherical Torbion I just I just found captivating. That was at Watch some Wonders and then the new Streamliner, which was in Red Gold and Vantablack Dial, was just but with those two releases, all of a sudden Moser just they haven't been able to miss this year. It's just incredible. Uh, and then on the other end of the spectrum, there were also in the Beau Rivage, um, Oris and Doxa were presenting, and they both had two of the strongest releases, I would say, with the Diver 65 12-hour bezel calibre 400 and uh the stainless steel edition of the the army, which I think you know are just both very enthusiast-friendly, um a solid price point, um, you know, just really attractive watches at the end of the day. Um yeah, uh but uh what did you guys think from uh from the shores of uh you
Danny Milton know, the Atlantic. Well, I definitely had some spillover. I mean I had the I got to go hands-on with that Moser um because uh my wife ended up shooting it for the site uh for a piece that Nora Taylor wrote, and I have to agree that watch is like insane. Um, just the combination of an entirely rose gold streamliner bracelet paired with just Vantablack and then the turbulence just kind of appearing as if it's just on nothing is really wild to see in person. Um and you really forget how heavy a watch like that can be in the best way possible. So that was something that stood out. But then I think the Oris was one of my favorites because Oris has has done a great job over the years with the diverse 65 line creating sort of these homage to mid-century diver style watch making. You know, even before Tudor was in that game in a in a way. And I think that this watch feels the most modern while while also like utilizing that same kind of design ethos. And you know, reading your piece on it, Logan, your introducing piece before I had a chance to go hands-on with that watch too, it just like reminded me how useful that bezel can be. You know, I'm not typically going diving. I would use a dive time bezel probably more than I would a chronograph, but a 12 hour bezel in terms of you know it's you to utilize it for travel and just to monitor a second time zone is actually super functional. Um, and I spent like I would say four or five days with the watch, and you know, it it kind of its simplicity kind of blew me away. I know it's sort of the the pick that a lot of people are gonna go after this year because it's really just a smart looking piece, but I really enjoyed that one
Logan Baker . I think there's something to be said for um passive complications that um you know like a 12-hour bezel where you can kind of set it and live with it rather than something that requires your kind of immediate attention, you know, such as a a chronograph, not that you know you can't just set a chronograph and and and and let it go. Just let it run. Yeah, you can just let it run. But um I don't know, I think there's something to be said with being able to just kind of consistently and constantly engage with um with some aspect of our our watches that that make them different, whether it's a a GMT hand or a twelve hour bezel or a dive bezel. Um and I yeah, I really like that kind of that's my vibe for the rest of the year. Passive complications
James Stacy . Yeah, I I I love the twelve hour bezel. I think they're super clever, they're easy to use, and they're just they don't they're not commonly around. And when you have so many versions of a dive watch, especially a hundred meter dive watch that isn't especially toolish as much as it is a little bit more like an old school throwback, like a style play. I you know, I think those are solid watches. The diver sixty-five, I I have the first of the Hodinki LEs and really enjoy it. But that 12 hour bezel not only really suits the watch in general, like aesthetically, but they've done a nice job making it kind of balance out and work and the sort of monochromatic appeal of that watch, especially now that we've seen the diver 65 in so many colors and different metals and mixed metals and things like that. This feels kind of elemental and then add in that movement at that price point. And I think they've got an absolute winner. I hope it's the kind of thing that just kind of quietly stays on there, on the the kind of layout for that model for a while because I I think that you know I watch brands almost like a lot of brands that sell a product in a store via third parties like ADs and and distributors and such are probably fearful of anything that requires an explanation. And like a twelve hour bezel does require a a slight explanation, a little bit more than than the internal logic of, say, a countdown or a count up bezel. And and I could see that being something that that could have an effect on how people see the watch, like if they don't understand what the bezel does. We'll put an explainer if you don't know what a 12-hour bezel does and how easy they are to use. I'll put in the show notes, of course. Um, but there it's it is a clever thing where it's a complication that has no cost. The the only thing you lose for a 12 hour bezel is you now don't have uh a dive bezel. And and on that watch, I think it works out to make just a really simple, clever, everyday sports watch. And I think they did it. And that's kind of what the brand excels at. So it's not surprising in any metric. Uh, you know, the other ones that stood out for me, obviously I wrote a ton about it. The uh Pelegos 39 is a huge release. Uh Logan, you got to see it kind of first. I saw it a few hours later here in Toronto. Uh Danny, you saw it in New York not too long ago? I did. I saw it uh two nights ago in New York. So my first question, and this is just for just for fun, is because I think a lot of watches don't necessarily look like their render when normal, actual environmental light hits them. Like a normal pelgos, the standard 42mm Pelgos, looks almost identical to its render because there's it's there's no shiny to any part of it. But the new one in lower light is very b I I mentioned this in my hands on, and it's what I mostly want to con to convey is like the watch can definitely be judged by its specs and by the movement and by tutor's build quality and the rest of it, but you might want to see it in person, especially for the way that the light interacts with the bezel. Uh what did you guys think? I uh I I
Logan Baker really, really, really like it. Um, you know, I've always thought the Pelagos Pelagos uh was just such a attractive modern contemporary design, and that's something that is fairly rare in the contemporary watchmaking scene to have a just truly contemporary design. Yes, there's some kind of hints of submariner in it, but everything has a hint of submariner in it these days. It's like Genghis Khan of dive watches, right? I liked the the sunburst finish on the bezel. Um I think that'll be a I think that'll be a hit or miss thing for some people, but I don't know. I I just had no like I wish they did this, I wish they did that. I personally really like the the snowflake uh hour hand. I've always enjoyed that.
James Stacy Um you know bezel still feels great, it's really thin, it sits really low and really tight on your wrist. I don't even like bracelets, but that bracelet would change my mind. Would do I miss the clasp? Absolutely. T fit still rocks. And you still have the wetsuit extension if if if that's something if you l lead a lifestyle in which you need that. And uh I implore all of you to try to have to have a use for an Wetsuit extension every now and then. But yeah, I I think it's just solid, really conventional, mass market sports watch product. Like it's it's what Tutor does really well. They've taken kind of what has worked from evolving the B B and what has worked from part of the Pelagos and kind of made like in my mind like a nine uh like a a modern snowflake.
Danny Milton Yeah, I think it it it's also like just deceptively like the the lightness of it, because when when you pick up a pelagos, pelagos, whatever, it forty two millimeters, the the other versions of it, the light the how light it is with the titanium throws you off because it's a thick, chunky watch. But this one being way more proportional and more what we're used to from sort of conventional dive watch sizing, it's even lighter. I mean, it even feels lighter to me in that regard. What I think about it in terms of my first impressions of it is it doesn't necessarily do for me what it's doing for both of you. However, I think that's its strength. Because I do have this sort of feeling that when a watch knocks you knocks your socks off in terms of let's say like you know, colors or you know, a new funky design. I feel like everything here was paired back, you know, kind of simplified, made a little bit more conservative in a way that I think will make this watch last longer. And when the newness wears off, I think my opinion of this watch will change. I think this is the sort of watch that you could buy and own and wear and just have this be sort of your core piece in your collection. I think the markers, which I, if I'm not mistaken, I think the BB Pro was the first one to do this. Those ceramic luminous markers have this like crazy depth to them. And they they remind me so much of like a modern version of just painted markers of old like before we had these surrounds on the dial which made watches feel a bit more luxurious and I think a lot of people yearn for the vintage stuff because it's missing that charm. And Tudor is captured in the Palagos specifically, that charm, but in a modern context. Because nothing about the Palagos, aside from I guess the LHD in a way, has felt sort of vintage inspired. And this one has that you know the red text or whatever, but on the on the whole, it's a it's a very modern piece. And bezel notwithstanding, I think the bezel is something that I need to get used to. I'll say this right now. And I went when I saw it in New York the other night. I actually, at first glance, I thought the person who I saw it on was wearing a Seiko. Um just because it does remind me a bit about how the the Seiko bezels kind of burst and shine a little bit like the SPB143, which I think is the watch you have, right, James? Yep. And then I looked at it and I was like, oh whoa. So it will take some time for me to uh to get used to that, but no, I think it's uh it's a a really interesting release and I think a year ago none of us would have thought the Pelagos was going to have a moment like this where we thought Tudor was just going full on into black bay mode and the Polagos was kind of left behind and it's kind of interesting to see that it's become a focal point
James Stacy . Yeah, I think you know it it is it is a different direction. And that's what I tried to say is like it definitely feels like a Pelagos, but in some ways it almost feels more tutory. Like Pelagos almost felt like its own thing. Like it could have been a its own brand in some ways, right? Like it was just um su such a move when it came out. And I think this kind of makes enough concessions to to become more wearable, but of course you do give up some of the like flagship elements of the Pelegos. If you're keen on getting into this or more of this discussion, there's about 900 comments between the two stories. So feel free to get in there. I feel like we've talked plenty about the Pelagos. Uh the the other two that I don't want to uh sleep on the first is that Doxa Army now in steel for a hair over two grand. That's a killer watch. It was great in ceramic. Um I really like the aesthetic of that watch, but at two grand on the rubber, I think it's twenty fifty. I don't really care for the the bi-metal one, the one with the bronze bezel and the the green. I don't mind. The green is fine. The green ceramic insert's fine. But the just the stock, the cheapest one that you can get, and then put it on a a a a different strap is what I would do. I I just absolutely love it. I mean that on a mesh, uh steel mesh bracelet would look so rad
Logan Baker . Yeah it's just a attractive, cool watch that doesn't really have a uh competitor on the market. Uh probably other other docs.
James Stacy The sub 300T's 1890. Yeah. And the cheapest you can get a 300, which is their best wearing watch by my measure, is about $2,500, $2,450. I believe the army is a little bit thicker. But the other weird thing is like doxes don't wear like other watches because they have little dials and kind of wide cases, but they sit really low. The nice thing is is they, you know, now they have some uh retail environments in in the States that you could actually go see a brand that it used to just be pitchers. I I was pretty pumped to see that one. I think that's just kind of like the or it's just good product and that it's not limited. It'll just be in their lineup. It's attractive. Um and I think it gives a slight it gives a slightly different aesthetic to the Doxa world that you don't get from the you know the litany of the sub uh range Okay, it's time for our ad break. And anyone who has ever bought themselves a nice watch and then tried to add it to an insurance policy will know just how big a hassle it can be to get your watch insured. You need receipts, an appraisal, a pile of photos, and lots of patients just to get your watch properly protected. Frankly, it sucks, so we decided to make something better. Hodinki Insurance is the fastest, easiest way to insure the watches you love. Get your quote now at hodinky.com/slash insurance. And then the other one, and this is a real left turn for me in terms of what we've been talking about: the aurus, the pelagos, and and the
Logan Baker Yes, sir. Yeah, I actually uh sick, it's cool. I mean uh James, you are like me in that everything Gruble does is just remarkable. It's incredible. I remember we published a a story a while back, uh, and I forget who the author was, but it was something along the lines of this is the only eight hundred thousand dollar watch where it feels like you're getting eight hundred thousand dollars worth of you know you're getting your money's worth there and it's hard to imagine that until you actually kind of spend 30 minutes just going over a a grubel with a loop and you and you see the amount of detail and the the degree of execution. I mean there's there is really no competitor for group of C on the market. Like a Grubalforce's competitor is you know, it's it's a boat or a second house or something along those lines. Sure. There's no watch that is the comp
James Stacy etitor to a group of force. Yeah, I think if what you want is a group of forzy, you're kind of you're kind of like this is what the there's not like three or four brands doing what they do. It's kind of just them. And the level of finishing is ridiculous. I've I I will forever love the Sig one. Yes, yeah. Like no watch looks better under magnification. No watch is a better reason to have a macro lens or a great loop or w w you know whatever option you have. And and you know, look, uh Groupo is one of these brands, especially I I think I could say this for all three of us, but certainly for me, I have to completely ignore what they cost. Oh yeah. The price is secondary. This is a $400,000 watch. And I said it's expensive in the same way that the sun is hot. And uh and I think I like I just it's so cool that somebody's making this. Yeah. Um, I'm I am surprised that they can charge 400 grand and someone buys it, but I'm I would say it's more of a delightful sort of surprise than a shocking sort of surprise. You know, the fact that there's a micro economy of one, people who are willing to make these and two, people who are willing to buy them is delightful. It it, you know, this is a essentially a mix of a GMT and a world timer. Uh, it does a lot of different things. Um, and it's in this convex case style, which is kind of a a a rift that that's going through several of their models. They're only making a few a year for only a few years. It's big, it you know, and has this huge crazy view of the dial because of the shape of the of the case and the way the crystal moves, and the fact that they've mirror-polished the entire edge of the case, the internal edge, what where where a Riyu would be on a more conventional watch, the level of finishing is so high that you can just kind of get lost in in in the photos they provide. It's it's uh it's uh they're so much fun to see in person. Uh it's really hard to explain a brand like Grubble to someone who's not had the chance to see one in in in the metal. Uh so I I don't even know how you would do it necessarily, but if you happen to live somewhere where you can see it or you're going on a vacation somewhere that call ahead, see if they'll see if they'll you know put the gloves on and bring one out for twenty minutes or whatever, because that experience is is kind of singular within uh within watches. The company I actually uh had
Logan Baker a chance to uh to visit the Grubble Manufacturer on Friday after Geneva Watch Days uh wrapped up. Cool building too. It's it's it's my second time there and it's just the most remarkable architecture uh in the watch industry for any for any manufacturer I've been to. It's this 17th or 18th century farmhouse that that's how you walk in. And then uh attached to the farmhouse is this just insane wall of glass that extends outward. And it has it has one of those living roofs, so there's sheep that will graze on top of the on top of the the roof where all the watchmakers are are working and um I mean Steven and Robert um Stephen Forcey and Robert Gruble are taking a step back to a certain degree because they've spent the past 20 years building the brand to to a remarkable uh degree. Um, and they're they're taking a step back and letting kind of the next generation of of leaders kind of guide the company's uh a future. You know, it's not gonna be one of those brands where it is based on the founders. You know, Grubel is Forcey is strong because of the brand Gruble Forcey, not just because of Robert Gruble and Stephen Forcey, as brilliant and charming as they are. You know, they're trying to build the brand up for for the next 50 years. Um and part of kind of uh part of part of that is you know redefining how the the watches look on the and and and feel on the wrist. And that's why we're seeing that convex case design kind of go through all the different collections. They're streamlining different lineups. They're kind of they're trying to hit new production goals. 200 watches is a big deal. By 2026, I think they want to hit 500 watches. I can't even imagine 500 group of forces being produced in a single year without any compromises to the finish, to the decoration. It's a big task. Exactly. Yeah, and and that's a big thing. You know, they're trying to uh offer things at a an entry level price point. And the reason I laugh when I say entry level is because, you know, that's 150,000. It
James Stacy 's not 1500. Yeah, I think SIG one was 170, 177, something like that, when it came out, and it was among uh their their most reasonably priced uh offerings. Uh yeah, no, that it's a fascinating brand. I I would love to be able to see one of these convex models uh in person. So gotta add that to the list for the next time I make a little trip through uh through Europe. But uh I would love to see the the the studio as well. That's super fun. And as far as Geneva watch days, anything else stand out? Uh Danny, there was some pretty solid uh AP stuff, right? They did
Danny Milton go full blue and they they also uh they went blue in Turbion as well. So there there's a lot of blue in the A P lineup this year. Um that Logan covered and I got to see some of them here in New York. You know, it's funny how Geneva Watch Days is a thing onto itself, but some brands on the periphery kind of latched on to the moment, which I wanted to even yeah, which is great, which is cool because I think in today's watch world everything's kind of decentralized in a way and and we we come to expect it. But the AP stuff, for me, AP doing their ceramic is just it's always fun to see. I don't know that it like blows my mind, or is like super impressive, or I mean of course it's impressive, but it's just cool to see a blue ceramic AP QP in the hand. It wears a little funny, um, just in the way that the ceramic case and the ceramic bracelet kind of work together. It's very blocky, is the best way to put it. Like, I don't know if my wrists can kind of like um handle that watch in a way. Um, but my god, if it's not cool, if it's not just like a cool object, uh the white QP ceramic is one of my favorite things that AP has done in recent memory. Uh and the blue just strikes me as just a fun take on that idea. I don't know what what you think of it, Logan. I mean it really did kind of take us all by surprise when it launched. And uh, you know, it was something that uh it seems like in the comments section on the site people were were pretty pretty into it too. Yeah. I mean it's just
Logan Baker uh it's a hot watch man. Like I people complain about um kind of the monopoly of attention that the Royal Oak has just on, I don't know, general watch enthusiasm, but it deserves all of it and more in my opinion. Like there's not a more attractive badass interesting watch out there in in so many ways like uh i whenever i get the opportunity to to handle you know a 15202 i still haven't seen a 16202. Hope me neither. To remedy that soon. But anytime I get the chance to see a jumbo or any variation of the kind of traditional Royal Oak, I just, you know, you feel like you're handling something different than I don't know a run of the mill dive watch or the the solidly you know four figure watches in my that make up my personal uh watch collection. Like it's the the finish is different, the the way it sits on your wrist is different
James Stacy . Um it's just the the real treat is if you have a friend whose wrist is the same size as yours. So you actually get to try one on sized. Yeah. Because the non-sized Royal Oak experience is like, meh, what's going on here? It feels like there's about 30 too many links. Yeah. I was hanging out in LA years ago for this UTA pop-up thing we did, and the shop had a um an early solid gold in 39 with the gray dial. And uh and the it fit me. And I wore it around for a couple days, and it's just like you could I I feel like that is one of those watches where you have you have an opinion before you get a chance to try one on. Yeah. That's been sized. And then then there's a moment after that where you go like, dang it, this is just a lot of fun. That's the key. The si
Danny Milton ze is the key. I've had that experience. It just it blow it blows my mind and like when I trade with the friend who lets me try it on, I like really don't want to give it back. You know, I just want to just casually walk out of wherever we are and just keep that on my wrist. I mean, it'
James Stacy s crazy. For me, it's all I I really like the the QPs in in Precious metals, real sucker for the early generations, the four digits and the really early five digit um uh QPs that didn't even have the leap year indicator. Uh those are those are a blast in my mind. And and I mean I wrote a story of at this point almost a couple years ago, uh, and like looking back and finding like Sotheby's results from within the two thousands where they were selling for eleven grand. Somebody got away with a whole lot of watch on that one. But yeah, so I you mean Geneva Watch Days I think was pretty successful. We had some core sport watch, like good product and lots of exciting, like crazy expensive stuff at the same time. But I also don't want to skip out on what happened on you know, m more of a North American front. Logan, you got to see I I I have to admit I'm not an Apple Watch user. Um I've set one up a couple of times for family members. If if I read everything and I watched the video where they they announced it and the rest, the new series uh for the core is kind of a a nice evolution, but in the same format that we've had for a little while. And now we also have the ultra. Uh where where would you start with uh with these updates? 'Cause you were in you were in the room, you got to see them in person. Yeah, yeah. I got to go out to uh Apple Par
Logan Baker k for the first time and and check out the whole I don't know Apple uh Apple land that they have out there which is a really interesting and and unique experience uh very different than kind of the the New York atmosphere that I'm I'm used to. And the ultra is just, I mean it's it's a remarkable piece of kit at the end of the day. You know, it's it's certified as a dive computer. Like you can just jump in the water with your wetsuit and everything and you're good to go. A new band that they have for that they designed for diving is really interesting. It has this um spring-loaded extension made out of titanium that is just a really clever, I mean like you said, James, everything is is very thoughtfully done. What I find interesting about Apple Watch as a whole is actually very similar to what I find interesting about watches and watch making. There's a lot of point of entries. You can come to an Apple Watch or general watchmaking through so many different angles. You know, and uh you can get a Apple Watch because you want to be able to exercise, because you want your notifications on hand. You want it as an extension of your iPhone. For watches, you can come through them, you know, through aesthetics, through engineering, through history. But then once you're kind of solidly in there, once you've owned an Apple Watch, once you wear it, you you find all these little rabbit holes and and you can go down those rabbit holes. They're they're endless to a certain degree. And uh the ultra just kind of extends that, you know, and and what I like about watches is that yeah, I can spend a whole week uh learning about Royal Oak perpetual calendars. I can go back and read James's story, uh which is one of my favorite Hodinky stories ever. You better link to that in the show notes. Uh, and just learn everything. And then with uh an Apple Watch, you know, if if I own one, I can kind of just go down like the I can become a health nut based entirely on the Apple Watch. I can I can learn all these new things about myself from wearing it. I can and and you know, I can spend all for three months I can just be focused on the health aspects. I don't know. There's just so many different areas to explore and learn that I think uh anyone that hasn't strapped one on for a week or so to to just try it out, you know, i i is missing out because it's again, it's an incredible piece of kit and the the ultra just kind of extends that
James Stacy . What I find interesting is is it's a market move that I don't normally attribute to Apple where they are the most dominant smartwatch by any number when it comes to the core, you know, series of the Apple Watch, which is, you know, kind of sits really nicely at four to five hundred bucks. And then you can kind of go in a few different directions and there's a lower end model and they still generally they've been offering past uh generations as well for for lower price points. The interesting thing about the ultra for me is one, it's it's obviously uh swipe at Sunto and Garmin and these folks that have like a multi-sport tool watch. It's not like an overpopulated field, the the like premium multi-sport watch, but it is interesting to see them go this direction and also lead in terms of price. Typically when Apple makes an a higher end product, they also run the highest price point. And Logan, the Ultra is only available in one spec, 49 millimeters in titanium, and it's eight hundred bucks. Is that accurate?
Logan Baker Uh yeah, which uh I expected uh, you know, there was some uh leaks and rumors before the show that said they were gonna release a titanium forty-nine millimeter, you know, I I think the rumor was the Apple Watch Pro. I'm glad they went with Ultra Name instead of the Pro Name. But I the pricing I saw was around a thousand. So when $800 flashed across the screen in Steve Jobs Theater, I was pretty surprised. Uh I mean 'cause again, you're getting a whole lot of product there uh for
James Stacy for your money. Yeah, I mean the the size is something that I wanna get to definitely. But like even just a comparison, like if you want a multi-sport watch that also functions as a dive computer. And I'll be fair, I haven't done like an uh if I get to eventually try out the ultra, I would have a better idea of how it compares to something like a Garmin Descent, which I've used, I've dove with, I've run, I've hiked, I've I've really put that watch through its uses and and it really does offer a comparable sort of feature set, what appears to be a comparable battery life, which is a major concern for these ones, especially if you talk to uh people doing long term long endurance activities. Um, but adding in the the dive computer really changes the number because at 800, I think the descent mark two, I guess the 43 mil, which is what I have, which doesn't have air integration, is a thousand bucks. And then uh the Apple doesn't offer air integration, which is literally a little radio uh well transmitter that goes on on a high pressure line from your scuba tank, and it could tell you how much air you have left on your wrist rather than using a separate gauge. It's kind of a flashy feature if you're if you dive a lot. It's an interesting way that they've come at it because I don't know I don't know that they uh necessarily all do exactly the same thing between a high-end Sunto, a high-end Garmin and and the Ultra, but it does a lot of the same things that people are going to expect from it. Like I like the Garmin stuff a lot, but I I'm really reticent to get into the 46 to 52 millimeter range. I have a Phoenix 6S, which is 42 millimeters, and I have a Descent Mark IIS, which is 43. And they wear nicely. They don't weigh that much because they're uh a resin, a plastic case of some sort. How did you find the 49 millimeters? And allow me a uh a silly a possibly silly question. Which is 49 essentially the lug to lug? Is what they're measuring there? I believe it's the lug to lug. I'll have to break out my calipers and and check. Forty-nine
Logan Baker lug to lug is not huge for a big sport watch. Not for a square watch at the end of the day. I mean we all know that square watches wear differently than round watches. They generally wear a bit more compact. And yeah, when I tried on the 49mm, I mean it it felt at the edge of what I would feel comfortable wearing, but yes, I would feel comfortable wearing it. And you know, I'm not gonna strap on a 49mm 2004 uh Invicta anytime soon, which would be you know 49mm or whatever. But the I would feel comfortable strapping the Apple Watch Ultra on any day of the week. Uh it felt just it felt good on the wrist. And it has that little uh flank, which in my story I I called out is kind of uh ruminis uh uh it reminded me of um the Nautilus in a bit which uh Joni Ive, the former Apple Design uh chief officer uh is famous for
James Stacy for wearing around. And so just so that we get this clear, cause I I I had to dig around to find this information and I found found it kind of cool. If you want to compare the Apple Watch to another watch, one, like Logan said, remember it's square, so it's not gonna wear the same, but it's forty four millimeters wide, 49 essentially lug to lug, and 14.4 thick. So it's the size of a of a lot of modern dive watches. Could you see somebody picking this as the watch that they actually wear, say six or seven days a week, not only when they're diving or hiking or doing an ultra marathon or whatever, but also as their Apple watch for their notifications and to tell the time and that kind of thing. Absolutely. I think. You know, I mean uh you're g
Logan Baker onna want to be able to take advantage of those features if you're gonna go for the the Apple Watch Ultra. But um I don't think there's nothing about it that would say like, oh I need to have an o Apple Watch Ultra for exercising and a normal Apple Watch Series 8 for uh my day to day life. Like I would just if I was gonna be out there diving, hiking, etc, uh I would use these
James Stacy U the ultra as my everything. What do you what do you think of these, Dan? You got any taste for an Apple Watch? Have you worn one a bit
Danny Milton ? I've worn some of the early ones. I will say I'm intrigued by the design change. You know, I think it's kind of hilarious that an Apple Watch now has crown guards. Um just like just the by the very nature of that. I was talking to some watch friends of mine and and one of them like just purchased one on the on that alone. Just thought that was so like kind of off off the Apple path that they were like, you know what? I'm gonna pick one up. Because it it it does kind of um I feel like what Apple's doing is kind of playing to to two types of buyers now. There was a funny uh a funny thing I saw online where where someone was asking what is uh what is Apple's sort of core audience at this point, because it it strikes them that it could be uh the post-pandemic crowd that's no longer in the office, but kind of getting out there and hiking and the outdoors, but they're just really bad at it. So they need all these extra extra functions to save them, which I found pr pretty hilarious. But at the same time, it is the it's the kind of product that scares me because I know that if I do own one, I'll probably become sort of addicted to what
James Stacy it can do. They are a weirdly sticky like any smartwatch. I'm I'm again I haven't spent much time with an Apple Watch, but like I like I rambled on about earlier, I've I've had a bunch of experience with Garmin stuff. And like once you set them up on your phone and you kind of get an understanding of how much it's going to bother you and what messages will come and what won't, and then it starts doing the sleep tracking and and all these other metrics, like it becomes this kind of weird little ecosystem that you step into and then leaving it for a conventional watch, one that ticks and you have to wind it and the rest of it, can sometimes feel like you're giving up a lot of functionality that I wouldn't normally attribute to a watch. And I think that's why one of the reasons this product has become kind of dominant and important as an iPhone accessory is because they're just weirdly sticky. Like there's lots of times when you can't have your phone with you or you're asleep or whatever, but these things kind of do provide a 24-hour functionality that I can't say I'm necessarily sold on, but the ultra has me interested. I've I if they hadn't released the ultra, I'm not sure I would have bothered talking about Apple Watch on the on the pod today. Like Logan went, so of course we we could do a little rundown. But for me, and I'm wondering if it if it's similar for you guys, you know, I use the Garmin's like a tool for a specific activity. I seldom just wear them for days on end. I keep one or two charged, and if I'm going hiking, if I'm going for a bike ride, if I'm going like I'm gonna go do something that I want the metrics for, certainly for diving, then I would I would have that with me as a sort of tool. And I I I don't know how well the ultra would work for that. Like a my guess is to get the best value out of a watch like this. You probably have to wear it all the time to have it doing all the things that it does. I think when I first saw it, I was like, ah, whatever. It's you know, they're doing a Garmin competitor. It's weirdly like like interesting me. I've had a few friends write me and say, like, oh, I immediately bought one. Yep. I don't know. Would this one appeal to you guys more than a normal Apple Watch, assuming the Apple Watch has some appeal for you guys? And you're not getting a
Danny Milton double wrist or something like that? It might. I think the double wrist would be tough in terms of the sheer size of this one. I it's not like it's huge by any metric, but it group of forcey on one. It makes a lot that's a lot of complications. My life would be extremely complicated at that level. But it this one it's tempted me a little bit more. I like the design more. Like straps look cool too. Straps look cool, the case design is interesting to me. I do like seeing Apple not just playing the hits every single year. I mean, it really does strike me as like, all right, you're gonna go out there and tweak this a little bit. Now you have my attention. Yeah, and big specs, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And I I I do kind of wish they would have called the battery life power reserve. That would have made me laugh a lot. Um I'll put it this way, my my attention is like firmly gotten at this point. And I think that it just I still have that watch guy fear of uh taking my my watch off. Becoming a smart watch guy. Yeah, taking my watch off, putting it down, picking it up, putting it
James Stacy on, and then never taking it off again. Yeah, no, I I I know exactly that concern that like you'll find this too compelling or you'll get too attached to it. Yeah. It's like two different mindsets. Like there's a watch nerd mindset that wants that mechanical side. But for me, I have to be honest, like I also have a side of me that just loves gadgets. Yeah. And and new tech and and like that's not going away. I I still read about cameras I'll never buy. Uh the same thing with cars, you know, like I just it's a fascination. And something like a normal Apple Watch doesn't trigger that fascination like this Ultra does for me. I think it's cool. Me too. I'd I'd definitely like to try and get some hands on with it uh at some point. I my guess is they'll be a little bit tough to buy for a little while, but that Apple's ready to make a lot of them would be my guess. Just just talk to Logan. But yeah, no, I think it could be super fun. It'll be interesting to see what it does to that market, whether it just brings a whole new wave of people who were Apple Watch wearers and thus not Garmin users, or if it really disrupts the space because of the price point, because it's kind of a different whole layout in terms of the screen and and and the shape and the the wearability and the straps and the rest of it. But I think it's a tough market to get into because there's some specialists in there. Um but it's also just it seems like they took their time with it. The you know, the Apple Watch has been around for a little while and it it seems well developed. And like I said, I I I'm I'm I'm very curious. Yeah, me too. Well look guys, thanks so much for taking an hour to sit down and chit chat about all the new watches. You know, it's just a couple times a year where we get a big wave where everybody's kind of on the same wavelength. If they if they want to release something, it'll come out during this run. And and sure, it's a little bit of a stress, and you're reading a lot of press releases. Some of them are super strange, but we get a bunch of cool new watches and a bunch to talk about, and then even some kind of disruptive elements like the Apple Watch and the new Ultra. So thanks so much for coming on, guys. It was great to chit-chat. Thanks, James. Thanks, James. Appreciate it. All right, and if you're listening to the show, you know what I asked for. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know in the comments. Let us know by telling a friend and sharing the show. And otherwise, we'll chat to you in about two weeks' time. Thanks so much for listening. Uh