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Surveying The Field With The New Tudor Ranger

Published on Sun, 17 Jul 2022 12:00:00 +0000

Fresh back from London for the launch of the new Ranger, Mark Kauzlarich joins Jack and James to chat about the latest from Tudor.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host James Stacy is joined by Jack Forster and freelance photographer Mark Kauzlarich to discuss Tudor's latest release: the new Ranger reference 79950. Mark provides firsthand insights from attending the official launch event in London, where Tudor celebrated the 70th anniversary of the British North Greenland expedition with historical displays and the unveiling of the new watch.

The new Ranger represents a significant update from the 2014 Heritage Ranger. At 39mm (down from 41mm), it features a cleaner dial design with minimal text, the same MT-5402 movement found in the Black Bay 58 (with 70-hour power reserve and COSC certification), and Tudor's new T-Fit bracelet without rivets. Priced at just over $3,000 on the bracelet—only $100 more than the 2014 model—it offers substantial value with modern specifications while maintaining Tudor's heritage-inspired aesthetic.

The discussion explores the watch's positioning within Tudor's lineup, its relationship to both the previous Ranger and Rolex's Explorer, and the sometimes contentious online reactions to its specifications. Jack, who owns the previous generation Ranger, offers perspective on the evolution, while Mark shares details about the historical 7808 Oyster Prince that accompanied the original Greenland expedition. The trio examines why this relatively conventional steel sports watch generated nearly 400 comments, reflecting both Tudor's successful targeting of enthusiast preferences and the inevitable debates about sizing, design details, and brand heritage that accompany any major release from the Rolex family of brands.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacy This episode of Hodinky Radio is proudly brought to you by Hodinky Insurance. It's the fastest, easiest way to insure the watches you love. Get your quote now at Hodinki.com slash insurance. Hey, it's me, James Stacy, and this week we're chatting all about the latest release from fan favorite tutor, the Ranger. Essentially an update to the Ranger that was originally released in 2014, the new reference 79950 is a 39mm steel field watch with a rivet-free and T-Fit-equipped bracelet and the same movement found in the ever-popular Black Bay 58. Despite being a very conventional design, it hits the core of the tutor audience and is a major release for the brand in 2022. Joining me is Jack, who owns a previous gen ranger, and one Mark Koslerich, who is a freelance photographer, photojournalist, and national geographic explorer. Mark took the assignment to travel to London for the official Ranger launch and the three of us dig into what the new ranger is and So here's the tune and then the chat. All right, Mark. It's uh an absolute pleasure to have you on the show and Jack returning. How are you guys doing? Doing great. Thanks so much. Doing good. Yeah, I think this is gonna be fun. It's it's not always that we get to talk about a new watch that's like deeply in my own kind of personal wheelhouse. I get a feeling, uh, Mark, it is for you as well at a certain level. And Jack, you're actually uh an owner of the previous Ranger, so I think we're we're doing a good job uh taking a peek at the brand new 79950 reference Tudor Ranger. Mark, you you went and covered this for Hodinki. You got to go to London to the actual launch. Why don't you give us a little bit of background on what that was like and and sort of what what the new watch is and and how tutor's kind of explaining its existence in the line.
Mark Kauzlarich Yeah, it was um a really cool experience. This is actually the first time that I've uh covered a release like this in person um on the ground. And so I think there was just uh knowing that this was going to be something pretty big, although um maybe not completely unexpected, I was I was a little uh a little worked up the night before I didn't I didn't get to bed until about 5 a.m. and some of that was maybe jet lag and some of that was anticipation but um it was a pretty cool event we we arrived at the space and immediately walked into this this area that was um designed somewhat to look like an ice cave, although I will say the the London heat from the summer sort of dispelled a little bit of that uh illusion. But uh the one of the first things you saw when you walked in was this uh small-scale M29 weasel tracked vehicle that they used on this British North Greenland expedition that they were celebrating the day of the launch, and it was this little small scale orange um vehicle that was made by Studebaker for World War II, which was a pretty cool way to set set the the stage for the event. And as you made your way into the main room, there were all these historical displays, ephemera, advertisements from Tudor related to that exhibition, which had launched 70 years to the day. So, you know, with the teasing that they had done beforehand and the fact that this is not the first time that Tudor has uh used that exhibition. Um I mean they went all the way back to advertisement in 1952 to 54, but um you know they've they've talked about the exhibition in in their more recent history. And so it was a great opportunity to sort of set the stage for what would be
James Stacy coming. Okay. And so you're there, they they've got a whole kind of scene set up. They're kind of recreating the some of the vibe of of the uh the Greenland expedition. What was it like when when they dropped the watch? Were you able to immediately get your hands on one or were you kind of uh in line to to get a little bit closer to it as people took their kind of rough Instagram photos?
Mark Kauzlarich Yeah, I mean I think it was interesting. Well, first of all one, thing I'll say is in addition to all of that ephemera that they were showing in advertisements and photos, uh they also brought some of that um horological history into it as well. There was there were some speakers that got on stage in this first room that we went into, which was, you know, bright and and like that ice cave vibe. But they uh they talked about the history of the expedition, which I think was really good context because I I don't know that everybody there probably did um all the research beforehand. I mean it wasn't all just journalists, it was a lot of people that were fans of the brand and and stuff like that. And I think some of that is is probably deeply nerdy um stuff to dig into what an Oyster Prince 7808 model was. And and in the center of the room, and I will say this, you know, tutor being big on history, in the center of the room was the only known 7808 oyster prints model that went to Greenland with the logbooks where the uh explorer took detailed notes about how good of time it was keeping versus the BBC radio broadcasts and all this stuff. So I mean it was it was a great thing and and finally at the end of that uh they pulled down these other curtains, you know, curtains on curtains on curtains of the displays and the m it was like the watches magically di had appeared on these blocks of ice. I was like, oh I I gotta get there, I gotta get to these watches, but you know, you don't know, okay, can I remove them from these pedestals and so on and so forth. And luckily there were all of these event staff that appeared with with uh sort of wooden trays of watches, which also made a nice backdrop to photograph the watches on and a couple of us were uh were quick to like have these people take these uh trays down so that we could just we sure they didn't have to carry them we could shoot these watches and and surprisingly for the number of people that wanted these great photos, you know, everybody was, you know, everybody wanted to make their photos, but everybody was super helpful to each other. I mean, holding reflectors and making sure everybody could get these um photos that were good enough quality so that we could provide them to the people that can get hands on. And I I'm used to as a photographer covering auto shows and stuff like that where nobody is um nobody's helpful to each other. Everybody wants their photo and uh everybody encroaches on each other's space to get that which means that nobody gets the photo that they want. And here Tudor had a bunch of models on every single strap so that we could all sort of spend some time with the watches, photograph the watches, uh even just wear them around for a little bit, walk around the space, see what it felt like to have them on our wrists.
Jack Forster Sounds pretty uh sounds pretty chill for a major launch. I mean you know my experience at trade shows over the years is like uh you know unless you have a private photo session booked it's like a lot of sharp elbows man
Mark Kauzlarich and and the funny thing to me was you could tell uh the writers and journalists and other people that you know really had deadlines to meet um from the ones that maybe were waiting until their magazine published or that you know they published once a week or whatever because because there was a growing line of of people waiting to get photos with David Beckham, which of course, being in in uh London, uh, who who would be surprised that David Beckham would show up at a tutor event. But um, you know, there were there was a long line of people that was waiting for those and I thought like you don't have the deadline that I feel like I have to get these photos out in the world because I I uh I ended up not getting a photo with Beckham and
James Stacy uh guys, we've all seen pictures of Beckham. I haven't seen pictures of the new ranger. Let's get on let's get on this. What are we doing? Ye
Mark Kauzlarich ah, exactly. I mean that was that was my thought is you know, I wanted to get photos out there first first for social media, um, for everybody and then and you know, there's something to be said about, you know, creating your own vision of what how the watch feels and and relaying that through photos instead of relying on on the the photos that the brand provides. It's it's something different. So you want to get those as fast as it's
James Stacy and the the y you know this is something we I complain about not not often on this show, but like the brand stuff is renders typ,ically speaking, right? And uh or or stuff that's so surgically kind of corrected for that it it's not really the same. Whereas you you I I you put up what I what I feel is a a really solid story with some great photos. And at the time that we're recording this, which really isn't that long, uh, you know, this is three days after the the story went up, it's got almost four hundred comments, which is kind of why I thought like we we should probably sit down and talk about it. And I absolutely want to dig into the watch, but I have kind of two back questions first. Uh first of all, uh Mark, this like I mentioned, this is the first time you're on the show, so I wanted to give you a chance to people get used to your voice, but why don't you give us the the elevator pitch on sort of your background in covering watches or or working as a photographer or My background
Mark Kauzlarich with watches uh honestly goes back to when I was um you know saying my first words, which apparently were tick-tock clock. Um my grandfather was a pocket watch collector and so when uh when I would stay with him and my grandmother, he would pull out watches and show me movements and just, you know, do what any watch collector would do not knowing what to do with a with a little baby, I guess, is just continue to talk about watches. And you know, so I have a decent collection of early American pocket watches and that had always sort of been a passion that had come and gone. And in the interim uh I've made my living as a photojournalist primarily, covering everything from business news to long form storytelling interned at the New York Times, worked for Time magazine and Bloomberg and Reuters and and others as a photojournalist, and uh yeah, about a year ago started writing uh for Hodinki, kind of marrying my my interest in the history of horology and what had been born out of uh this love of the newer watches newer than the late 1800s based on just being an avid reader of Hodinki for for a while and and getting this opportunity to sort of marry the two things together. So I have I have some background um with with uh what we would call expeditions, but not really anything to the extreme like the Tudor expedition um to North Greenland. But it's nice to f kind of bring these two things
James Stacy uh together finally for me. Absolutely. Yeah, no, I I think it's I think it's a good one and and I think that's a good way to, you know, looking back to the past of the expedition into older watches and then now new watches and let's dig into uh into the rangers. So for anyone who missed the story, I I definitely suggest you hit the show notes. It do it's even in your uh podcast app uh and you can link out to it and even scan through it while you're listening. It's uh it's a steel case tutor, 39 millimeters wide, 12 millimeters thick, 47 millimeters lug to lug. Um you know it's a hundred meters water resistant, sapphire, crystal up front. It's all the stuff you know, the stainless steel case back. This time, unlike the previous ranger, which we will get to, uh, you've got uh the option of a fully fitted bracelet. It's also a bracelet without rivets and with T-fit, which I think will be a major talking point for a lot of uh tutor nerds, especially at this price point. Um matte black dial, sort of oversized hand painted style, uh numerals, very minimal dial text. I have to really commend them on like the bare minimum here, their name and the name of the watch and let's keep going. Right. Like it it it really does kind of paint a different um aesthetic balance than not only the last one, which was already pretty minimal, but really most other tutors from the last while, uh, which I think is great. And then uh for those who are you know concerned about this, the last one of course had an EDA movement, which I think was fine. Um, but for roughly the same price, you now get an MT-5402, which is the same movement as a B B fifty eight. So you can get the seventy hours of power reserve, no date, it's a four hertz movement, and this time it's COSC certified, which I think is also um something you should expect from brands operating at this price point and operating in in sort of the guys that tutor operates. Mark, you think I missed anything there in the very very fast outlay of specs? No. I mean that's uh that's what I saw in front of me on Friday. So I mean that sounds about right. Yeah and on the bracelet we're looking at just a hair over three grand, about twenty-seven twenty-five on either of the two straps. So it's that Black Bay Pro style hybrid um fabric uh rubber leather or the the usual um single pass. So it's not quite a NATO. It's made by that French company, Julian Fower. Again, we did a really great video a long time ago um at an inside the manufacturer where you can actually watch these straps being made. If you figure they're the same as the $15 or twenty dollar NATO that maybe you love, I certainly love, uh, these are a whole different weapon. And uh the cool thing is is right right at the start, I I went to the release here in Toronto, which was just at the Tudor Boutique, they were very clear to say that essentially any strap that fits a BB fifty-eight uh will fit on the ranger. They didn't want to say whether the bracelet would or wouldn't. Did you guys see, Mark, in the comments for your story? Somebody on Reddit has bought the ranger and then put the bracelet so now you get T fit, no, no rivets on a fifty eight and unless it's uh there's some trickery in in what they were putting on Reddit, it looks like it fits just fine. It it looked like I
Mark Kauzlarich mean it was yeah, it looked like it was a perfect fit. And uh what I thought funny about the comments on that that Reddit post was that the person was just planning on just selling his riveted bracelet and and just switching the two back and forth. Which was funny because they said that they weren't really bothered by the rivets in the first place, which goes to show you, I mean, uh surprisingly, I think this was my first experience. Um, I did see a Black Bay Pro on the trip, but uh this was my first time spending a lot of time with the T fit bracelet in and I I honestly don't blame the guy if that if he wants to go f full in on the new bracelet, it's it's fantastic. Yeah
James Stacy , I'm I'm not a huge bracelet guy. I it really depends on the quality of the bracelet, but having a micro adjust, and especially one that's like pretty simple, pretty strong, seeming, seemingly very strong, and easy enough to use makes like a huge difference for my interest in a bracelet. And I've definitely written in the past about several tutor Yeah, I mean my sort of rule
Jack Forster of thumb unless there's something that I really, really hate about a bracelet, is um, you know, al always get it on a bracelet 'cause you can always switch it out for a strap and it's gonna cost you more to get the bracelet if you decide you want it afterwards, ass
James Stacy uming that you can get one at all. Yeah, and I guess the other side of it is like a w sometimes you recommend the bracelet purely for if if it's a watch that doesn't really hit you that well and you decide to sell it. Most people want the bracelet, um being being the premium option and being too expensive to buy later on, like Jack said. So I I think this is an interesting thing. People clearly went crazy for it, like in terms of just wanting to have an opinion. And I think what I found interesting because earlier today it wasn't three hundred and seventy five, seventy eight comments or whatever, it was like three hundred and thirty or three hundred and forty. I went through and read almost all of them. And like I don't remember the last time that a fairly conventional steel, like maybe the 925, the silver black bay, kind of had a pretty divisive play among folks. But like this is a pretty much down the middle steel sports watch and like the comments are pretty split. Some people saying that like it's it's too it's not enough for them or it's too close to ten sixteen, which is a very weird comment in my mind. And other people saying, like, oh, this is the one I've been waiting for. Uh, and and I think that that kind of stands for some evidence that maybe Tudor made the right move in making some decisions. What what what do you Mark? How did it hit you? Did you like having it on your wrist? w Doish you it was thirty six? Do you you know in my case I just don't understand why it doesn't have drilled lugs. Like I'm just there's like little things about it that are are old little choices. But on par it just seems like a solid sports watch, right? With a good movement and a fair price
Mark Kauzlarich Yeah, I think you know there's definitely things that they could have done um to make it a little more referential, uh to make the people that wanted sort of that tried and true ranger from the 60s and 70s. Um but look, 39 millimeters is sort of to me the sweet spot um not as a personal wearability standpoint because I I wear everything from thirty four um up to maybe forty one, forty two without really feeling that much different about it. And and to be fair, I'm I'm six foot seven. Um so I I only have a a seven liar. Yeah, I only have a seven and a quarter inch wrist, um, which is something that I really never thought I would say out loud um, you know, a little over a year ago, because it wasn't something that I have thought about in in the past, but now it's become sort of a um a point that you have to know for reference. But I don't think, you know, 36 millimeters. I know how much contention there was when Rolex went to 36 millimeters with the explorer. And uh then on the opposite side, you have a lot of contention of them going to 39 millimeters with the ranger. And uh I almost wanted to put in the story that uh the two groups of people really should like have a meetup, get in a room, swap watches, and everybody would be happy because I think they're very um very similar watches very similar ethos. Obviously the finishing is going to be different, but I didn't think the thirty-nine was too large. I mean, you're talking about a watch that originally was thirty-four millimeters, and that goes back to all the oyster princes, oyster prints dates, oyster um, just plain oyster models, the manual wounds. Um, they were all in the same case. But you're talking about a modern watch now, and I think one, you wouldn't get the the manufacturer caliber movement into a 34 millimeter case. And two, um, you know, in all fairness to tutor, they have to sell watches, and I think this is the right
James Stacy place to put a modern tutor. Yeah, and I think they made other concessions for what I would call like the core enthusiast by going no date. There isn't a date option. It's not like this a safety play. They've continued what they've done with the fifty-eight where it's a no date. Jack, I'm I'm curious because the funny thing is is that not only did they change the size, they went down two millimeters from the previous ranger, the which you own one. Um, they changed the proportions. So not only was the forty-one millimeter ranger had kind of a much thinner bezel visually, so an even bigger dial, which makes it wear in my mind bigger than forty one. Especially if you wear it, let's say you switch back and forth between a BB forty one, uh like a an original black bay. They they really wore quite differently. This watch for me kind of homogenizes the whole idea of the the middle ground of the size of a tutor. So you still have kind of this big dial that feels kind of explory-y in many ways. That's probably the 12369. But how how did this hit you versus the one that you might have on your wrist a couple times a month or something like that
Jack Forster . out of the experience that I've had wearing my um uh Ranger Heritage from which was 2015 still hasn't had a movement. And you know, I always found that watch, you know, sort of charming. I mean it's very, very easy. The easiest way to get a rise out of um sort of diet-in-the-wolf watch enthusiasts is to do a vintage adjacent or vintage inspired watch but make it 41 millimeters in diameter and you can just like you you can you know uh what does Obi-Wan can Obi say you can you can hear um a million of voices Are appealing precisely because they're kind of goofy. You know, like they're a little too big or they have these like exaggerated dial features. And, you know, you sort of feel like, you know, on the one hand, they can have the vibe of like, you know, a chihuahua, and on the other hand, you can have kind of like a you know the the appeal of a St. Bernard that won't stop drooling on your $27,000 Persian rug. And um the the Ranger Heritage to me, you know, always had kind of the appeal of the latter. It's like it's definitely it's definitely too big, right? I mean it's forty-one millimeters. The di the dial is enormous, the bezel is really, really narrow. But that's kind of like part of the fun. Oh, and it's got this like big dumb crown tube that sticks out and like you know the crown
James Stacy . Yeah, the crown is the the crown was a weird design. They were doing that for a lot, but on the dive watches, they were kind of tucked a little bit under the flank of the bezel. I mean this
Jack Forster this is this is this is like one of the one of the wonkiest, biggest crown tubes I've ever seen on a on a on a modern wristwatch, man. It's like um it looks like the barrel of a howitzer or
James Stacy something. Yeah, and some in some ways I remember back when when I first saw that watch, I think it you know it came out in Bozworld 2014. Um in some ways it kind of had like a panor eye vibe. There was just that much dial going on. And I I I remember liking it and still liking it and uh and enjoying that camo strap. Um I thought was pretty fun. And I, you know, I think the strap options we we can get to those in just a moment. Uh for the new one I I c kind of missed the camo. I you know, I thought that uh uh when I went to shoot a few photos at the at the Tudor Boutique here in Toronto, I thought maybe they would still do the strap and I brought a camo kind of like over shirt jacket sort of thing, like an old one. Um yeah, I I think that in many ways, as you know, in in the file we have for this um the outline for this episode, I've got them photos of them next to each other and there there's so many similarities in the dial. And in especially in the minute hand and the hour hand I mean listen, I I I
Jack Forster I love the old one. Um you know, like I said, I think it's got a certain kind of goofy appeal and um you know there there's I've got a whole like subcategory of watches in the watches that I own that are exactly that. They're just like weird ass watches, but that's the reason that I love them. But I don't think there's any question that um at 39 millimeters uh without the word rotor wind on the dial like rotor wind. Okay. Um without without that on the dial. And at thirty nine millimeters they're definitely gonna sell a lot more of them and the fact that it's ten sixteen adjacent doesn't hurt either. I mean Mark, what was the vibe in the room when they unveiled the watch? Was everybody too um was everybody too like uh concentrated on um you know gathering media assets or did you get a sense of how people were reacting to it
Mark Kauzlarich ? I I would say it was hard to judge just because I mean they teased this watch with the the British North Greenland expedition. They um you know the last time they used that was when the North Flag came out, which um I will say this this seems to make a lot more sense to me in the lineup than uh than the North Flag ever did. Um you know, that was a watch that had portions of the Tudor Ranger, it had um sort of an oyster quartz case, it had this bright yellow um colorway on the dial in certain po uh parts and then like almost a more modern font for the 12 and 6 and it never really quite made this made the same sense that this watch did and by discontinuing that and the old heritage ranger I think they opened up a very obvious space And so I think the vibe w from people and I'll I'll also say, you know, it's I I think it's better to judge the vibe from the general audience than sort of the watch um writers that might be there trying to get their photos, uh trying to kind of quietly gather their thoughts about you know, all these things that they're gonna have to They're a jaded dead heart bunch as well. Dead-eyed soulless yeah I I try to I try to go in with like even though it was sort of predictable like I try to go in with the hope that I will be excited. You know, I I personally don't want to go in and and like you said, be jaded and just, you know, try to be um tearing something apart for the sake of tearing something apart. And Okay, it's time for our ad break.
James Stacy And anyone who has ever bought themselves a nice watch and then tried to add it to an insurance policy will know just how big a hassle it can be to get your watch insured. You need receipts, an appraisal, a pile of photos, and lots of patience just to get your watch properly protected. Frankly, it sucks, so we decided to make something better. Hodinki Insurance is the fastest, easiest I I yeah I don't disagree. I think that makes sense and it is that kind of watch that we're like it it if you if you view it in a vacuum or you view it on the homepage of a of a watch website surrounded by other watches that are like very design forward or complication heavy it looks very conventional almost in the vein of like, I think we saw comments which, I don't think they're wrong. Like, if you ask the kid to draw a watch, they would essentially draw something like a ranger, right? But I think there's a reason for that. We're talking about essentially something that comes from the bloodline of like the most simple, straightforward mid-century watch design in the steel sports catalog in existence. Right. And I think in many ways, in 2014, when uh when they did the Heritage Ranger, what they were doing was offering to the same thing of the Explorer vibe that the BB41 did for a submariner, which is very much different if you put the two of them next to each other, but somehow similar. Like when you see cousins at a at a you know at a family reunion or something, you go, you can kind of see like o,kay, yeah, you uh you're you two are from similar stock, right? But it's a different it's a different thing. And then when you hit the market, when we start talking price, whole different world. A current explorer one is back down to thirty six millimeters. It's seventy two hundred dollars. And I genuinely we say this every time I sit in front of a microphone. I don't know if you can get one. I think your chances are better now than they were six months ago and they might be better in six months or a year than they are now. But I still think these are tough things to buy and, I think the tutor will be tough to buy for a few months
Mark Kauzlarich . Well and and somebody in the comments, I don't know if it was on Instagram or or in in the articles, said, you know, about getting a current 36mm explorer. They said, don't give up hope. My wife got one two weeks ago. And then the next sentence was she put her name in the the day it came out. And that doesn't necessarily inspire confidence of not having to wait a long time at the same time that they say like it's oh it's possible. Well yeah it's it's possible but here you've got something that's more I mean hopefully uh I'm sure there will be a demand um for a while but, hopefully it'll be more accessible both timeline wise and you know price point wise. I think that's something to keep in mind is as much as I love writing about the super high horology complicated watches, like this is a tutor even I think giving more value to the average customer who a three thousand dollar why watch might be a stretch and and all of a sudden they've got something that is, I think, a lot of value for that.
James Stacy And I think there's some price context to consider before we go too much further. One, like I hinted at earlier, in 2014, a ranger on the bracelet was $2,950. Right? Almost every watch is more expensive now than it was in 2014, and you're paying $100 more for the brand new one, which has uh Kinesi-based movement. So again, you're getting a true no-date movement, 70-hour power reserve, it's still four hertz and it's COSC. Uh and it has that five year warranty, which I I want to say Tudor didn't have on ETA movements back in the day. At that timing, I want to say the five year thing started with the North Flag or even maybe a year later. I think that's interesting. The other side of it is so many of the comments focus on whether the aesthetics are like exactly what you would want, whether it's a millimeter too too big or too small, which is an argument I understand is never going away in watches and I wouldn't want it to, whether or not it should have the rose, whether or not the second hand should be all red, whether or not it should have been a white dial, which would have been closer to the original reference. And that one I absolutely think would have been fascinating to have se
Mark Kauzlarich en. I mean it should have the rose. Let me let me say it should have the rose. I'm a doctor. That's where you land. Try I try to drink No, I know it's not what they're gonna do. Um and that's like that's personal preference. Um I'm a big fan of of the
James Stacy Rose, but um I don't disagree. But it wouldn't be that that's not enough to like be a deal breaker for me. No, no, not at all. I would have loved it with uh a red rose and a and an all-red secondhand. Yeah, I think it it's a it's there's there were so many directions they could have gone. In my mind, it's kind of interesting to close imagine cl,ose your eyes that this isn't you haven't seen it or whatever, and you just explain to somebody: hey, Tudor's going to be releasing like a uh an everyday sports watch in 39 millimeters with a Kinesi movement, um, and a T-Fit bracelet with no rivets, decent loom, a hundred meters water resistance, a screwdown crown, and it's gonna be three grand. I feel like that checks a lot of the main boxes for people and what they expect from Tudor. Yes, you can get um field watches from $350 that are tough and could probably go to Greenland and back. I'm nobody's fighting and saying that this is the best deal ever in field watches. Moreover, I think it's like a really competitive thing for tutor within their lineup that seems to offer something that the the BB doesn't and and then the pro also doesn't. And that in my mind, it makes it feel like a good line. I would love to see them expand it, right? Because right now you pay what is it like two hundred bucks less for a BB thirty six with an EDA movement? That alone should be evidence of where they're headed, right? Sure, you you could get a thirty six if that's what's most important to you, and I think those watches have always been really really, sweet. I love that blue dial on the tan leather. But this is like kind of almost fully brushed. It has these really fine mark did you notice it's on the BB Pro as well? But on the bezel edge, there's like this absolutely hair thin polished line around it. There's like two or three small polished elements that like when you take the shot in uh with a with a a macro lens you can see them and I like that. I loved it on the BB Pro too
Mark Kauzlarich . Look, they were obviously very thoughtful about the elements that they put together on this watch. And I keep going back to the North Flag, but the North Flag was such an oddball to me, whereas now you see where the where the brand is headed in and it seems to just make much more sense every time they release a new wat
James Stacy ch. Don't get me wrong, Tudor walks themselves into these sorts of comparisons because they made this watch in conjunction with uh, you know, uh an event from 70 years ago. So people immediately go, Why isn't it thirty four millimeters? Why isn't a white dial? Why doesn't it have a rose? And like they're their own worst enemy if it matters. I'm not sure it actually matters, but that that is the communication in the beehive of like deep watch enthusiasm online. If you zoom out just a little bit, this is a really, I think a really successful evolution of the one that came out in 2014, which was already a reasonably successful watch. It rent for six years, right
Mark Kauzlarich ? And I would also say, you know, this for all that uh the potential downsides of of contextualizing their own watches against their own history, we have to keep in mind that there's a lot of watch enthusiasts, fans, readers that maybe haven't been around since 2015 w um when the North Flag came out and and didn't really know some of that history and and also, you know, sort of bolsters the the ethos that they're trying to put forward um right now. And I I think as somebody that's a big history geek in that context, I think it's a it's a great opportunity. I mean, I had really interesting conversations with uh Ross Povey, uh tutor collector. Ross is great. And uh, you know, it was really great to have him there. I mean, I know he was there to to work, but it was really great to have him there so I could just ask him both about the 7808, sort of the lineage of R the Ranger, which you do a lot of reading, but there's there's so much information that's sort of a a game of uh historical telephone where things don't necessarily get relayed correctly. And then he just turned his wrist up and said, you know, here's my seven eight oh eight that I'm wearing right now. And as you can see, unlike the ones that went to Greenland, this one had a you know 12369 dial so you could find these and this history of the ranger in these old watches and by the way xyz really cool fact about these things and that's stuff that I think you know new watch enthusiasts probably um might enjoy digging deeper into and and tutor gives you that opportunity here
James Stacy . Yeah and I think that's that's the other thing that comes along with any of these things is like now that tutor is entering maybe its second generation of operation in North America, there's some generational knowledge that has skipped 'cause people like you said, the the audience is kind of bigger and different than it was in twenty fourteen for websites, whether it's Hodinki or anyone else really. We've grown, diversified, you know, there's been attrition, all that kind of stuff. So you can't always assume that everybody knows the previous story. And I would also co-sign Ross Povey is an absolute gem. He was on the FXD episode, and it it's still a conversation that I really enjoyed. And you know, if we'd had a couple more days to put this episode together, I probably would have tried to um to have him on with us. He's fantastic and and such a a great type of nerd. I am curious, did they tell you the the backstory on the 7808 that was there
Mark Kauzlarich ? Yeah, so that was the 7808 that um Jason uh Heaton wrote about um back when the North flag came out and that sort of um really interesting backstory. And I I can give a a brief um I actually I I took notes ahead of the episode because I didn't want to get any of this wrong, partially because it's, I think, such an important, it's such a cool story. And I wanna, I wanna give, you know, deference and honor to the gentleman that's involved in the story. It was this gentleman named Major Desmond Homard. And uh he was one of the original members of that expedition to Greenland. The numbers vary. Uh the official number I believe is is twenty-six watches that went out on the trip. There were thirty gentlemen in total that went on this expedition. And while they were out there, they had these 26 tutor watches, which they not only used for you know telling time, but they they used it for navigating the Arctic. Um their compasses, traditional compasses wouldn't work, so they had to use uh sun compasses and and their watches, which had to be accurate so that they knew um they could do their calculations for traveling uh and and get to where they needed to safely. I mean, this is a a place where the temperature on multiple occasions they recorded 75 below on 16 different occasions. So it wasn't like, oh, they just had one bad day. You know, this was very difficult. And this gentleman was out there and he like I mentioned, he kept logs of how accurate his watch was running. But they were, I believe all of them were supposed to give the watches back at the end of the uh expedition and he instead gave the watch to his wife who wore it as he set out on another expedition to Antarctica. And while he was gone, apparently she misplaced the watch and it took until he was ninety three years old, just just before the North Flag was released, that he found his watch in a junk drawer in his kitchen. And um that that eventually made its way back to Tudor and they had it on display with pictures of he and his wife um and his his log that he kept. And and a lot of the pictures actually on display at at the event were pictures that he had taken. He wasn't a quote unquote amateur photographer, but I mean there's some of the most incredible, aesthetically incredible photos that I've seen from that period. I I just thought it was super fascinating and and really cool to see the watch in person
James Stacy . It's a beautiful watch too, to be clear. Uh as m as much as I think the new ranger works and is probably like commercially more like I said down the middle than this specific design, there's nothing about this I wouldn't I wouldn't say they couldn't recreate at some level and be quite successful with it. Um it would just wear a bit differently than maybe what people expect from a modern sport watch, right? But I think there's maybe a
Mark Kauzlarich market for that. I mean, um I I know I mean, even among just general enthusiasts and people that love the history, but I know that my girlfriend, for instance, is always looking, you know, she I'm six seven, she's five one, she's uh she she looks for small watches. Um and it is kind of hard to find that smaller, sportier, you know, durable watch that just wears just right for somebody that doesn't want something so big. I think there's maybe a market for a lot of people that would be interested in seeing a 34 millimeter oyster prints. Yeah I I don't disagree.
James Stacy I th you know, I think where I would want to end this is, you know, what do you guys think about folks that are that are kind of slamming this watch for being kind of too close but at the same time too far away from something like a ten sixteen? To to be a watch
Jack Forster enthusiast is it's defined is to define like as in every other form of enthusiasm, it's is to define yourself as much by what you intensely hate as by what you intensely like. Oh absolutely I mean there was a the uh what was the story that we just published that was uh oh the the um uh but Bulgari Ducati collab and uh the author had the had the nerve the nerve to uh bring up the subject of what a cafe racer is and uh boy oh boy, I thought that um watch enthusiasts were uh hyper concerned about um high intensity uh low impact arguments. Um I see it's you know it's kind of it's kind of everywhere. And uh you know, if you're if you're i if you're tutor or if you're Rolex, I think it's impossible to launch a w any sort of watch without people uh getting their knickers in a twist about it, uh you know, either pro or con, it's just kind of the nature of the beast and it's the nature of the brands, you know. I mean
James Stacy , I mean and and they're as they're as much at fault as a as as anyone. The lineage is such a selling point. History is such a selling point in watches. Like you they do invite it to a certain point, but I do wonder like it just seems like it seems like if you told if you gave people a list of these specs like I said earlier the day before this came out, people would be pretty dang excited about it. And and I think people are. This like I said, the store was super popular. My favorite comments are always the ones that say if
Jack Forster uh listen, tutor slash Rolex slash Omega slash giant brand that makes a million watches a year. You have to do this with the second's hand, you have to do this with the date window. You have to shave one tenth of one millimeter off one aspect of one numeral and then I will buy one. And it's like they're not trying to sell you a watch. They're trying to sell five hundred thousand of these watches. Yeah, basically. But it makes for great conversation. Oh, for sure. And and it's it's the heart of what we're doing, what we're doing here, essentially
Mark Kauzlarich . Exactly. That's why we're here. Again, trying to take the like the positive perspective. Um, you know, you read a lot of comments and and I read a comment that was critical of like, you know, how close it looks to a 1016 or how it's uh you know a a lower slightly lower tier um price point. Copying copying point, right? Yeah. I mean, you're you're literally marketing Hans Wilsdorf's dream for Tutor right back at you. And somebody in the comments responded to one of those saying, like, fantastic compliment to tutor. And this is exactly what they were designed to do. And maybe maybe forty years ago they could have had that branching point where they decided to go a completely different direction. But that's that's what it the brand was founded for. I mean, the brand was registered as a as a trademark in 26 and didn't make watches until nearly 20 years later. I mean, this this was an idea for a long time until it started. So to shake that that core of what the brand is, I think is and to expect them to shake that is is I think a little bit a little bit silly
James Stacy . That's for certain. I I would say that especially if you even you they even doubled down on that at some point I would say twenty fourteen when they returned to North America with the Black Bay. I think that was a almost like a reestablishing of that original goal. There's a lot of um, you know, Jax dropped some of it in our chat during this call, but there's a lot of weird, goofy, deeply non-Rolex stuff from the brand in their previous years. And people brought it up in the comments. This wasn't a brand that was like renowned among watch enthusiasts when they eventually decided to kind of pull out of the North American market and uh and and come back with kind of a new plan. The new plan is kind of the old plan. And in many ways, like I said, I think that I see this uh this new model as a a good a good uh rehash of the uh uh twenty fourteen Ranger, which is kind of Tudor's black bay efication of a sort of ten sixteen or explorer, and I think it works both to the original impetus and as a watch sort of in a vacuum. I think the you you compare it to the pricing from 2014. I think that's a a big step forward for people and what they pay. And the fun thing is is you're within shooting distance of a handful of other watches. B B Pros four grand. So add a grand and you can have a GMT of a watch of a similar size, right? Thirty nine. And then a uh B B fifty eight's less than a grand more. So really we're just seeing a lot of options for people um uh from from a brand that for a while you kind of had to go forty one or or thirty six and if you wanted a dive watch it was forty one.
Jack Forster You know what this did make me wonder though is uh about uh rolling out meta certification for uh for other models. This would have been kind of a cool watch with uh with uh meta cert
James Stacy I agree. Especially with the you know the historical pin to accuracy which Mark talked about. I don't know if maybe it's a cost thing, maybe it's not available on all movies
Jack Forster I mean I think it's a scale thing. Um I had a chance to see their Metas lab and it's a very small operation right now. Um you know I mean it there's uh there's one very crowded room full of equipment where they um you know test groups of uh groups of watches for um magnetic resistance and there's a um there's a pressure test chamber and there's the um there's the room uh where the only somebody from uh from metas is allowed to go in order to kind of like certify all the equipment. But uh it's uh it it look it really looked and felt to me like a bit of a pilot program right now and I don't think that they're um they're I'm sure that they're gonna roll it out in more watches, but it doesn't really surprise me that they didn't
Mark Kauzlarich it would have been nice though. And maybe that would be an interesting, you know, next story to do. I think that's something that until I started sort of writing about watches and and being exposed to sort of the inner workings of how tha these things work, I had a a honestly a a very gross misunderstanding of how difficult it is to go through any of these programs and get your watches certified. I mean, it's uh it's sort of a logistical nightmare for for a lot of brands. And so um I I again another opportunity tutor presenting to learn a little bit about history or horology or whatever for the people that are are
James Stacy interested in that and dive a little bit deeper. Being that this is a you know a Kinessi movement, which means it's a it's a partnership movement, uh via tutor. Um may maybe it's just not something that that has, like Jack said, has scaled to the entire range of movements. We haven't seen to the to my knowledge, to Jack, we haven't seen Metas on anything else. Like we haven't seen it in any of the BB58s yet.
Jack Forster Just the one. Yeah. So I have a question for Mark. Um going from the uh sublime to the slightly ridiculous. As an American in London, did anyone take exception to how we pronounce tutor over here? No
Mark Kauzlarich . Maybe maybe that was you know the point of conversation over drinks after the event that you know I wasn't around.
Jack Forster So apparently the way that you pronounce the name of the royal family is tutor, not tutor. Just throwing that out there. Like with a CH? Like the way I say Churano? Like uh uh like somebody who plays I guess somebody who plays a trombone is a tutor, but somebody who is a a member of royal family is a tutor. And if you're in s the French speaking part of Switzerland, the brand is Tudor. I like that one best, I think
Mark Kauzlarich . Yeah, I don't I don't know that I'm gonna pick that one up, but uh I'll I'll be spending the rest of the week practicing my my terrible British accent for my next trip
James Stacy . Anyways, on that note, I think that's a show. Mark, it was an absolute pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much for swinging out to uh to London and and getting the inside scoop on uh on the new ranger. I I really enjoyed getting a chance to see it and even more a chance to uh chit chat with you about it and Jack. Uh hey I love having you on the show. That's why you're on almost all of 'em. So thanks so much. Yeah, thanks for having me. Always always a pleasure. Thanks, guys. Could uh great to talk, Mark. And yeah, and if you're enjoying the show, you know what I always ask, send it to a friend, uh get into the comments and let us know what we missed about the Ranger, what you might add, what you might change. So with that in mind, thanks so much for listening, and we'll chat to you in about a week's time.