The 2018 Grand Prix d'Horlogerie de Genève¶
Published on Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:00:00 +0000
Recorded the morning after the 2018 Grand Prix d'Horlogerie de Genève (GPHG), Editor-In-Chief Jack Forster and host Stephen Pulvirent sit down to recap the most important awards ceremony in watches. They chat about Jack's experience as a juror, how the GPHG works behind the scenes, the various winners, some controversies, and what the Grand Prix can tell us about the state of the watch industry more generally. Enjoy.
Synopsis¶
In this special episode of Hodinkee Radio recorded in Geneva just hours after the Grand Prix d'Horlogerie de Genève (GPHG) awards ceremony, hosts Stephen Pulvirent and Jack Forster provide an in-depth recap of watchmaking's most prestigious awards. Jack, serving as a juror for the second time, offers unprecedented insight into the deliberation process, explaining how the twenty-plus jurors spend days evaluating dozens of watches across multiple categories, breaking into smaller groups to debate technical merits, finishing quality, and design philosophy. The episode walks through each award category and winner, from the Challenge Prize won by Nomos to the grand Aiguille d'Or taken by Bovet's spectacular Recital 22 Grand Recital. Notable wins included Seiko's Prospex diver, Rexhep Rexhepi's Akrivia Chronomètre Contemporain in the men's category (which received thunderous applause), and Chanel's Boyfriend Skeleton for ladies' watches. The hosts discuss how winning watches typically transcend their categories by appealing to jurors across different perspectives—some evaluating technical innovation, others focusing on design and wearability. A particularly moving moment came when Jean-Claude Biver received the Special Jury Prize for lifetime achievement, earning the only standing ovation of the night. The episode concludes with a frank discussion about the notable absence of major brands like Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, and most Swatch Group and Richemont brands from the competition, raising questions about the awards' representativeness and the industry's reluctance to participate in what should be a collective celebration of watchmaking excellence.
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Transcript¶
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| Unknown | Alright, it's the morning after here in Geneva. Last night was the Grand Prix d'Orlogerie de Genève, or the GPHG. These are the biggest awards in watchmaking, sometimes called the Oscars of Watchmaking. And our own Jack Forrester was on the jury for the second time and I got to attend for the very first time. So we thought it would be good to sit down just a couple hours after the show though the sun is barely up and we're sitting in Jack's hotel room uh to record a a little bit of recap to talk through the watches that won, the watches that didn't win, what trends we noticed, and kind of the state of the awards overall. I'm your host, Stephen Pulverant, and this is Hodinky Radio. This week's episode is brought to you by Hook and Albert. Stay tuned later in the show to learn more about this global travel brand and their range of travel accessories. You can also learn more at hookandalbert.com. All right, good to be here with you Jack. Thanks for uh thanks for doing this. Well thank you for uh putting this all together, Steven. For sure. I know you've had uh a long couple of days, so it's uh you know what, it's about twelve hours I guess after the uh award ceremony ended. We're sitting here in your uh room at the Kampinski Hotel in Geneva. Yes. Scenic, lovely, I guess sort of gray Geneva. Yeah, it's been kinda classic Gene |
| Unknown | va weather all week. Uh I think I've seen the sun That's kind of appropriate, right, for for this week. Oh ye |
| Unknown | ah, yeah. It's perfect. It puts you in exactly the right mood for voting on watches. So you know we'll we'll get into the awards themselves. I know people probably want to hear our thoughts on who won, who didn't win. Uh, but I thought before we do that we could get into kind of the process and the politics of all of this. This is your second year as a juror for the GPHG, right? That's right. That's right. And so what's that process like? You've been in Geneva since what? Last Sunday? You've been here almost a week. I uh I got in on |
| Unknown | uh s a fairly early Sunday morning and um uh the way that the uh the way that the week plays out if you're a juror is uh you you come in on a Sunday afternoon or very early Monday morning and um we uh we go over to uh a museum here in Geneva where all of the watches are laid out um not not not in vitrines, but they're laid out uh you know as they were for you know sort of the exhibitions that the GPSG has been having, uh the traveling exhibition that they have. So we get a chance to get uh acquainted uh or in many ca uh reacquainted or in many cases acquainted with the watches for the first time we get a chance to actually look at them um in the metal to handle them. And then uh uh everybody sits down uh and the way that it works is we're broken into three groups and uh y just because it would be unwieldy for you know twenty plus people to try to have a you know uh a a productive group discussion yeah sure um you know with that with that many people providing input. So we break that we break up into three groups and every and uh each group gets uh a trayful of watches in a particular category. So um you know if I'm in group A we get all of the uh ladies watches all of the candidates for best ladies watch and we look at them and we cast our ballots uh for which one we think is the best. And then the same process takes place at the other two tables and we just sort of go round Rob |
| Unknown | in all day. Um and what's what's that examination process like, right? Like you have the watches on a tray in front of you. I assume there's some nice loops there and decent lighting |
| Unknown | and the lights pretty good. Loops are provided by loop system, which is fantastic. Very nice. At the um look at the watches through you know some of the best optical glass in the loop business, uh which is pretty fantastic. So thanks to them for that. And um it's a very uh the actual evaluation process is very unstructured. You know, the um the the GPHG as an organization uh kind of um assumes that people who are going to be jurors or they try to select um you know for jurors, people who uh have a high degree of expertise and a high degree of understanding of watches uh without and they feel that we're all sort of professionals so we don't need to be told what to look for. Um which is uh generally speaking true I mean when you have uh you know people the caliber of Philippe Dufour uh you know on the jury. Um and he's somebody by the way who people are very comfortable with asking for advice when it comes to evaluating movement finishing, for example I mean he kinda knows a little bit. He might know a little bit. Yeah too. But the whole thing is is essentially fairly unstructured. You know, people are uh very, very um I would say comfortable with asking each other, you know, you know, for for opinions. And there's a lot of tolerance for varying opinions. And opinions do vary. One of the things that I was very surprised by last year is, you know, I I was sort of surprised by the whole thing because it was my first year as a juror, so you know, everything was new. Um, but it's a genuine um uh sort of opinion-driven evaluation process. I mean, uh, everybody has their favorites, everybody has things that they absolutely love and absolutely hate. Um, you know, everybody's there because uh they have strong feelings about watches. I mean, as you know, there are uh you know, a lot of people get into writing about watches kind of Right. So you have a lot of uh a lot of people who were, you know, um enthusiasts were passionate about watches first before getting involved with them professionally. But you also have um you know, you also have retailers. Uh Kimmy Vavempe is there, uh who is uh again somebody who might be presumed to know a little bit about watches. Sure, yeah. I think that's a safe safe bet. Yeah. And uh you know we just go around all day um you know uh, kind of you know ar,guing amongst ourselves and discussing amongst ourselves and asking for views and opinions when something comes up that we don't um that we don't understand or that we th you know that we think we could use uh some insight on. So for example, um I, consider myself pretty okay on the technical side of um watches and watch making, and you know, not bad when it comes to evaluating movement finishing, but in terms of um I'm I wouldn't be your go-to guy for looking at um a gem set watch and saying, okay, these are top quality diamonds, um, this is a top quality setting, you know, etc. and so forth. But there are people there, uh like Mr. Sadiqi from Dubai, uh, who uh really do know that particular subject extremely well. So, you know, we tend to go to you know somebody like that for instance uh you know for sort of advice on how to evaluate the quality of a |
| Unknown | stone. Sure. And I mean you mentioned that there are debates and and definitely some disagreements. I know you can't give us all the the juicy details with names and everything. I know that that would uh violate the confidentiality of the deliberation process. |
| Unknown | Yeah, I mean I mean um I you know it's it it it's true. One of the things that um the folks at the GPHG really do take um great care to emphasize is the need for confidentiality about the deliberation process. So I I mean I I will say this though, uh for anybody who's interested in watches and watchmaking, it would be uh an amazing experience to be a fly on the wall in that room because what you're hearing are unfiltered opinions from people who have been in many cases involved with watches and fine watchmaking their entire lives and boy oh boy do they have views |
| Unknown | . Um and uh with without using names were there any like particular disagreements or sorts of disagreements that kind of stood out to you this year as as being sort of like uh arguments of note. You know the b |
| Unknown | ig thing I would say um this is this is I don't think this is something that will necessarily surprise anybody who's excuse me whose um uh you know, kind of looks at the uh comments on Hudinky or the comments um, you know, on other watch websites or you know goes to you know watch events and talks to other watch enthusiasts. Um I think the main dichotomy is really between people who are evaluating watches from what they you know consider to be a sort of like hard watch making perspective and those who are evaluating a watch uh who are more motivated by you know sort of the design elements of a watch. And you know they're obviously watches that lend themselves more to you know a technical evaluation and watches that lend themselves more to an aesthetic evaluation. You know, I mean if you're looking at um you know a really, really beautiful gem set ladies watch, um, you know, there was a cuff watch by Piaget that uh you know kind of wowed everybody because of the um intricacy and beauty of the uh design in the gem setting. But it's quartz-powered watch, so that's not something you're going to look at and you know say to yourself, let's evaluate this on a sort of technical watchmaking basis. Um but there are watches where it's a little bit less clear how you should evaluate them. The Singer, for instance, you know, like I look at the Singer um reimagined, which has a movement from designed by Jean-Marc Wiedericht, uh who just retired this year by the way. The Agenor, right? The Agenor chronographically, uh the what do they call it? The Agengraph, which has good name. Yep. Which has a lot of really cool technical solutions in it. Um and that's a really difficult watch to evaluate because stylistically it's um not like you know pretty much any other chronograph out there. I mean it shares some configuration similarities with the Fabriger version of the Ajangraf chronograph, just because they're using the same movement, so the pushers are in the same place. Um and the dial is designed to support a certain readoff of uh of the chronograph times. So um, you know, there's some basic layout similarities, but like you look at the singer reimagined and you know you say you sort of say to yourself, that's a watch where you you can love or you can like it or dislike it on a lot of different levels. You can love the technical solutions in the movement for their ingenuity. You can dislike them because you sort of said you're you you're you you know you prefer uh a traditional lateral clutch chronograph um you know for for whatever reason. Um you can love the uh the aesthetics. Um, you know, it's a very kind of like uh not steampunk. There should be a word in watchmaking for like the equivalent of steampunk, but for like nineteen fifties watch design. Yeah. There should be actually. Um, you know, so it it it it it it's uh's's kind of a like a a nostalgia piece, you know, it's got that sort of pseudo bullhead configuration for the pushers and uh the colors are very sort of like nineteen sixties racetrack um, you know, sports chronograph. Um so there's a lot of ways in which you can like and dislike it and it's not uh it's not a straightforward process to evaluate a watch like that at all. Once you start getting into the granular details and you know as as you can imagine you know with a uh a group of um uh jurors, you know, like we have, uh the conversation gets granular pretty much instantly. Yeah. Um you know, when you when you are looking at a watch like that and really discussing it on a granular level, I mean we could have almost spent the entire day just, you know, debating the finer points of that you know one particular watch and we've got you know 70 odd watches to get through so we don' |
| Unknown | t know yeah so you're you're not sequestered but you're essentially all kind of like you know pus,hed into this room, sat around tables, you have the watches. Right. You're spending a couple of hours doing this and you have to make decisions on all of these categories and kind of figure all of this out relatively quickly, right? Yeah. |
| Unknown | I mean it's an all day process actually. Uh we you know, we they the GPHG asks us to get there at eight thirty in the morning because everybody dicks around and has pardon me. I think I thought Ben had the uh um the monopoly on uh being a potty mouth on the podcast. Um but yeah, you know, th they know that everybody's gonna, you know, wanna chit chat because uh you know, we all know each other but we don't see each other that often and certainly not en masse. So uh everybody gets together at eight thirty in the morning and uh you know we all have coffee and gossip and uh you know, um people say hello enthusiastically to old friends and look a scants at ancient enemies. And uh then we also eventually |
| Unknown | And then you guys when you come out at the end of the day, nobody knows who's won, right? That's right. That |
| Unknown | 's right. Um you know, we uh how late we go depends on how heated the debate gets about um the big prizes which are decided at the end. So you know the uh the the aiguid d'or, for instance, um the last um that that's basically the last uh you know sort of prize we figure out we can't that's essentially the grand prize the the best watch of the year, right? Exactly, exactly. And that's almost uh uh and you know, it so it it gets to the end of the day. And basically the only criteria, the only official criteria for the aiguidor is which watch out of these all of these dozens and dozens of watches, which one did you think was the best? So you can imagine |
| Unknown | sufficiently vague. Yeah, exactly. Are most of the category descriptions that vague, or are you given kind of, you know, for best men's watch? Are you given parameters? Or is it literally just like if you were a man, would which watch you want? Yeah |
| Unknown | , you know, like the men the men the best men's watch and best ladies watch categories, um you know, these are really, really weird things to kind of evaluate nowadays. I mean I think when there was a uh a sort of you know if you come at it from the you know traditional notions of the gendered watch, right? Like a men's watch is you know uh w what's a what what's a what's a what's a men's watch? Well it's probably stainless steel. It's likelier than not to be on a bracelet alt,hough not necessarily. Um, you know, it's probably not smaller than thirty eight millimeters nowadays, you know, I mean thirty six in the fifties, but you know, thirty eight, thirty eight plus nowadays, with a relatively straightforward dial design, you know, it says unassuming masculinity essentially. You know, whatever like masculinity is. And then, you know, best ladies' watch. Um, these are really watches that um, you know, in the Swiss watch industry, the dichotomy between what's traditionally thought of as a men's watch and traditionally what's thought of a ladies' watch is institutionalized in a lot of different ways. Um everything from the basic conceptualization and design process all the way down to, you know, sort of tooling and machining. I mean, if you want to make you know, I mean, uh a lot of these um companies and a lot of their factories are actually set up in terms of like hard production um capabilities, you know, like what goes on on an assembly line, what tooling you use, what materials you use, what you order from suppliers. You know, the whole industry is set up on a certain level around this like dichotomy that no longer um that doesn't necessarily obtain anymore, at least not in the way that it did, you know, in the fifties, sixties, you know, well, I would say, you know, up until the um you know the beginning of the two thousands. And you know, like uh there are there are um you know, a lot of men that we know who prefer watches that would not have been thought sufficiently masculine in terms of size. Sure. Um, you know, today. I mean uh you know, I have had several thirty-xsi millimeter um watches. I I don't think I would feel uh um comfortable with a watch smaller than thirty-six millimeters just because I have a seven-inch wrist. Um you know, but it's not about it's not because I have some notion that there's a certain minimum size for a watch to be masculine. It's just um uh it's just what's comfortable for me. Um and you know, I I mean I've seen women wearing panoras, um, you know, as a sort of a style statement. Yeah. And um, you know, generally speaking, lady watch enthusiasts that you and I know, they tend to want the same things that guys do because like a good watch is a good watch is a good watch. Right. Um uh but uh when we're so we're presented with these watches and we sort of you know, to answer your question, um which I'm getting to in an extremely roundabout fashion. That's fine. I expect that, Jack. I know you. I expect that. Um it's the the the the there's sort of an assumption that um once any of the watch experts who are on the jury walk into a particular category that uh you know we've had so much exposure. Uh we you know we're sort of equipped to make an evaluation without um any of you know what the GPHG might perceive as hand holding. So the men's watches, they're a very, very disparate buns bunch of watches. We had the Accrivia chronometre contemporaine, we had a Debethune, we had a Moser, uh the Endeavour flying arrows, which um which which is a very cool watch. Um you know it's always nice to see a wandering hours complication. Uh the MB and F uh Legacy Machine Split Escapement, the Vacheron Constantin, Historique Triple Calendar, 1942, and uh a gorgeous piece, you know, by the uh ever reliable for making gorgeous pieces, uh Kari Vutilainen. But you know, you look at these watches and okay, they all kind of generally fit in a very in an extremely general way. That is a very broad set of watches. You know, I mean they these a lot of these pieces have almost nothing to do with each other other than the fact that they're a certain size. I mean we've got we've got uh uh you know we've got precious metal, we've got a gold watch with the accrivia, um we have the MB andNF the Debetoon, which um you know take a sort of I mean not maximalist approach to watchmaking, but there's an you know I think that's a little more over the top. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. We have the Vasheron, which is a you know a uh straight shot of uh classic mid and-century uh you know uh men's complicated watch making. A watch that our own Ben Klymer has. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ben actually has the original version. As a matter of fact, um I was actually with Ben in Geneva uh when he when he went to pick it up. I was with uh I was with Revolution at the time. Oh nice. We took a walk up the hill to uh Christie's and uh you know I had a chance to congratulate him on picking that one up. Um so yeah, you know, the uh and the the Vashron and the Vutilinen arguably, you know, are The Accravia kind of you know stands alone as an exercise in um and you know I know you love that watch. Yeah, I we'll get to that in a minute, but yeah, I I'm I'm pretty crazy about that watch. Um you know it's an exercise in basically um beauty from a movement standpoint. Not that it doesn't have a very, you know, sort of Augustine dial. I think that he um really kind of uh you know hit a home run in terms of dial design with it. Absolutely. Um but that's a watch where you know the party's all in the back. Yeah. Um but you know, as you can see, just looking at this particular category, here are these six watches, they don't have a whole heck of a lot to |
| Unknown | do with each other. No. I mean we're looking at them on your laptop right now and it's they they have almost nothing to do with each other except for the fact that they're ostensibly marketed to be worn by men. Right. And round. So the long and short of it then, I guess, is you're not given a whole lot of instruction. You're basically told, like, here's the name of the category, make make your best call. Like we trust you. Right. Right. Exactly. I mean that's I think in some ways there's a lot to be said for that, that like you kind of just they make their selection when they select the jury and from there it's uh it's up to you guys |
| Unknown | . And you know by the same token we can look at you know we can look at the ladies' watches. Um and again not a whole lot to uh uh to connect them. That's true. So what do we have here? You know, we look at the ladies' pieces and we've got we've got uh you know, all nice in their own way, but again, pretty different. We have to |
| Unknown | Bove, Bulgari, Chanel, Shaume, Moritz Grossman, and Piaget. I mean that is again, that's a motley crew if |
| Unknown | there ever was one. Right. And you know, I've we've got one, two, three, four, five round watches, one square, um, two skeletonized pieces, uh one um, you know, sort of technical piece. All six with diamonds, of course. Uh the Grossman has diamonds but very, very discreet. Um you know, and again the b |
| Unknown | ogery has diamonds but very not discreet. Extremely not discreet |
| Unknown | . Boy, I hope I said that right. Your French was good last night. Yeah, you know I while I was reading it off the envelope, but that's that's you know what? I I'll give you credit anyway. Um but y yeah, so y you know um we again these are watches that don't have a whole heck of a lot to do with each other. The one the one common thing that the one element they have in common is uh you know is diamonds, but the Grossman um you know, certainly that' thats' nots the not the where cell is. Yeah. That's not the thing that c |
| Unknown | loses the deal on that particular bunch. So I don't want to keep people waiting too much longer. And since we're now getting kind of into the minutiae, I thought we would just go through the categories one by one. Sure. Uh we'll go through them in the order that they were uh presented in last night, which changes year to year. Um and I thought we would just go through. We'll uh go over the winners. I think people probably know who they are by now. If not, we'll link it up in the show notes for this. We ran a full recap immediately after the awards ended. I was presenting it live on uh Instagram story. So we've we've got ways for you to see all of these watches. Right. Um but let's just go through the categories. Okay. Uh talk about the winners and talk about maybe who didn't win and why and get kind of into some of the the controversy. 'Cause there was definitely some controversy. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. Um it's h it's actually hard for me to tell because you know our deliberations do t do take place in a kind of you know sequestered atmosphere. But I am actually pretty curious to hear from you where you thought some of the um where where there might have been s room for difference of opinion. Yeah, totally. Uh you know, given watch people there' |
| Unknown | s room for difference of opinion absolutely everywhere. But absolutely. Let's get into it. Yeah. And I mean just so people know, this this event is held in a theater underneath the Kampinsky Hotel. Um it's sort of like red velvet seats, like very traditional kind of theater atmosphere. Right. And literally everybody from the W watch World is there. You know, everyone who we do business with and who we see, quite a few people who you've already heard here on Hudinky Radio are in this room. Um now there are signific there are some significant absences too, which we'll get with we'll get to in a min'ute.s that That's true. Um but it' its's probably the largest gathering of watch folks outside of Basel World, may |
| Unknown | be. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, it's a it's a pretty big theater. Um I'm not sure exactly what the seating is, but it's not you know, it's not small. I mean it's um uh and and there are an awful lot of uh heavy hitters from the industry there um a lot of heavy hitters from the sort of global horological press there style editors design, you know, design uh design editors. Um it's it's it's it's definitely not a uh also ran kind of event as far as the industry is concerned and you know here in Geneva um which for just of some you know justifiable reason still sees itself as kind of the world capital of fine watch making Of course. Yeah. All right. So let's get into it. Okay. So |
| Unknown | do you wanna should we um sort of let's start go uh in the order in which they were presented. Okay. So um up first was the challenge prize, which is a new prize. And that's for watches under what price? And smart watches uh are admissible in this category. Right. Which we covered this a little bit in our pre-GPHG episode, but no smartwatches actually made it to the final six. Aaron Powell No Smart Watches made it to the final cut. Th |
| Unknown | ere were um smartwatches uh in the first round of vote And I guess we should probably you know talk a little bit about um you know sort of that aspect um as well. You know, there's a there's a f there's uh the first round of competing watches watches are submitted by brands in the uh for the first round of voting. Uh so the GPHG doesn't really have any control over that other than I mean I suppose there's some circumstance under which they would say, well I'm sorry but that watch isn't appropriate for the submitted category. Right. Um you know, but generally speaking it's kind of uh you know, come one, come all. You think you've got something that fits in a particular category, um, you know, uh bring it on. Uh so it's the so that's a very large group of watches. So in the ladies' category, for instance, in the first round of voting there were one, two There were like twenty something. Twenty six So the first round of voting happens online. So from those watches, uh the the first round of voting selects six and those those six watches are the ones we actually touch and feel when we get to Geneva for the last round of jury. Okay |
| Unknown | . I gotta say, a little disappointing that even though the Tag Hoyer connected watch was submitted for this category, that it didn't make it through. Yeah, I think it would have been interesting to have a smartwatch there. I mean, but talk about provoking debate. Yeah, but that's the whole point of the category, right? Like it seems to kind of defeat the purpose. Absolutely. Absolutely. The ultimate winner here was the uh Nomos Tangentin Neomatic 41 upd Yep. Um, which beat some pretty pretty wonderful watches in that category. That was a pretty comp |
| Unknown | etitive category. Yeah, the challenge category, um it's a it's an interesting one to have, and I think that uh you know, there's been a little bit of a tendency in the past, um, you know, for G PH G to really focus on the high high end. B and of course, you know, that's I mean, obviously the high end is great. We all love the high end, um, you know, there's a lot of beautiful stuff. Uh but the sort of watches that, you know, Ben likes to say watches that actually matter in most people's lives, right, you know, are aren't probably not the three hundred and fifty thousand dollar uh ultra mega complications, you know, but rather you know, watches in you know this particular category, which and and which you know often represent um you know for their buyers an expression of a lot of love for watchmaking and you know uh I mean for you know let's let's uh let's get real I mean for for most people four thousand four thousand Swiss Yeah, absolutely. That's a real watch. Yeah, for su |
| Unknown | re. Um I think the big upset here was the Tudor Blackbait GMT was also in this category. Yep. And I think was kind of the clear favorite going in. No no knock against the gnomos or any of the other competitors. But |
| Unknown | yeah. Um you know the Tudor is obviously a fabulous watch and uh you know I mean demand for it is very high. Um it's a uh there's there's absolutely nothing that you can say against any of these watches in and of themselves. Sure. You know, um like uh let's see. Um you know, Octavio Garcia's brand Gorilla. Yeah. Um so uh the gorilla fastback drift. Um you know this is a pretty nifty little watch. Now you might be well not little actually, it's quite a nifty, you know, rather than you know, but it's something it's it now again, the design is going to be dichotomizing for sure. But if you sort of say to yourself, okay, the you know this watch is not trying to be a thirty six millimeter mid century anti-magnetic paddock, you know, I mean that's just not what's going on. It's in fact probably the least like that watch that any watch I can imagine. It's it's it's it's right up there. Um but you know it's uh it's it's under four thousand Swiss um wandering hours complication, uh which is you know a a pretty fantastic thing to see at this price point. And you know, with Octavio you're always gonna get really you know sort of bold forward-looking design. There's some great case materials. The overall build quality is really terrific. But again, we have this watch competing against, say, the Tudor uh or the Gnomos. And you know, again, these are these are these are watches that don't have a whole lot to do with each other stylistically. So um I think it's a when you look at any of these watches, you sort of um there are there are things to love about each one. You know, so the tutor, for example, you know, this is a watch we love partly because of what it is from Tutor, partly because it sort of harkens back to, you know, the uh those uh wonderful anodized aluminum dialed GMT masters uh which Rolex, you know, now makes with uh you know ceramic bezels and that's whole separate conversation that you know we don't need to have now. But uh you know there's a there's a lot about it to love you know great functionality just a wonderful practical um travel watch tough as nails um you know uh you can you can wear it all day and and never be unhappy with it. The Seiko Pressage Chipotle enamel, you know, again a gorgeous flanque enamel dial, you know, genuine fired enamel dial, um at an amazing price point. And uh quite a few of the jurors who looked at it, you know, didn't realize, you know, that they sort of looked at it and they said to themselves, well, wait a minute, this is this is a fired enamel dial watch in an under 4,000 price category, you know, which which you certainly don't see coming out of Switzerland terribly often. And you know, a lot of the folks, especially the industry folks uh who were on the jury, were quite you know positively impressed by that. I think at the end of the day the gnomos um uh was selected because it had and this is the case for a lot of categories it had a combination of features that appeal appealed to the widest range of jury members. Okay. Um so you know, a great um you know, Bauhaus influence design, a very interesting take on a date complication. Um and you know, to do a date complication within the sort of Bauhaus design language um and not use, you know, some variation of a date window. Well that's a pretty tricky thing to do absolutely. Alright. So the first |
| Unknown | wing goes to Gnomos. Yep. And now a word from this week's sponsor. Hook and Albert is a modern travel brand, and last week I sat down with CEO Adam Schoenberg to talk about how they got started. He's back this week, and we're going to talk a little bit about the design of the products. Thanks for joining us, Adam. Thanks for having me, Steven. So is there an overarching design philosophy that guides everything you do at Ho?ok and Albert Sure. I think the first thing we always focus on is the actual journey and the customer we're building around. And that's someone who travels for one to three days. We classify them as a sprint traveler. And that person really needs product that fits their lifestyle. We don't really focus on technical fabrics, but more of luxurious ones. So we like to play with leathers and suedes, and we really want to build something that's not only functional but truly beautiful. When you're designing these bags, how do you think about the balance between the function and the utility on one hand and then the design and the kind of natural beauty of the materials on the other hand? I think everyone can build something that's beautiful. The most important thing for us is you have to have the function down and our whole entire objective is to simplify one's journey. So once we figure out what we're creating and what that function is and how it makes that journey simple, we then turn around and say, okay, now that we have the structure, how can we wrap that around the most beautiful leathers and the best zippers and really build something that people are proud to have with them when they're traveling. And how do you think a beautifully designed bag can change the way somebody experiences travel? I think it's an extension of who they are. It's a product that is very personal, it's by their side. So I feel that by someone embracing this product being something that fits their lifestyle, it really makes the connection a lot more unique and special. Yeah, the way you're describing this, it actually reminds me in a funny way of a watch. You know, it's an object that has to be functional, but a lot of the pleasure comes from the beauty and from living with it and really making it a part of your life, right? 100%. I mean, for me, I've always loved watches and I always travel and wear a GMT watch because it fits that travel lifestyle and bags are very much the same thing. That bag is has to fit into the actual journey that we're doing. Awesome. Thanks so much for joining us and we'll be back next week to learn a little more. Thanks so much for having me. Let's get back to the show. Alright, so up next is the petite aggy, which is another kind of budget-driven category. This is for watches between 4,000, so at the upper end of the challenge, up to ten thousand Swiss francs. Um and winning that category was the Habering Doppel Felix chronograph, which Habring is no stranger to winning this category. It seems like |
| Unknown | I think Habering is also no stranger to um you know this is not as uh sort of uh bang for the buck driven uh as the challenge category. But you know, there's st I think uh in the petit aiguille category you're still sort of saying to yourself, okay, so what am I getting for my four to ten Swiss? Um and we it's it's it's a room full of people who all other things being equal, you know, consider themselves serious watch people. And I think that the Hay Bring is a a really sort of a serious watch person's watch. There are um you know, there are always things that you can like or dislike about any particular watch. I mean, you know, you can sort of say to yourself, oh hey, this this ought to be I mean ought to be this ought to be a thirty eight millimeter, you know, chronograph instead of what it is. Um but for what it is, uh I think a lot of jurors felt that it was just a fantastic uh value. Oh you know, I mean uh a wonderful evolution of the rotropon, you know, the split seconds chronograph complicated. It's split seconds with a date. And you know, it's a wonderful piece of watchmaking history too, as uh as uh a lot of serious um you know watch folks know. Richard Haybring's the guy who designed the original um you know sort of affordable quote unquote rochrapont chronograph for IWC right uh back in the nineties. And uh you know he's continued to evolve and tweak his design. Um and it's just uh it's it's a watch that uh wins hearts and minds on a lot of different levels. Um from a technical standpoint it',s a super cool piece. From a bang for the buck standpoint, it's a super cool piece. Um from a sort of like you know, I think that the jury has a uh a little bit uh of a soft spot for uh you know the plucky underdog independent watchmaker narrative. And uh and you know, I mean the Habrings um you know have really you know persisted in uh in uh evolving and tweaking their designs, and I think this this is one of the best things they've ever done. Yeah, it's uh it seems to have been the cons |
| Unknown | ensus. It was fun to see also so the brand is run by a husband and wife team, Richard and Maria Habering. So seeing them get up on stage together and you know, despite the fact that they won before, they were clearly really emotional about this and seeing the two of them stand there and accept this award was was really something special. Yeah. Yeah. Kind kinda warms your heart a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Uh to the extent that my heart is warm award. You have a warm heart, Jack. You play you play tough, but uh up next we have the sports category, another sufficiently vague category of watches. Uh but with a good field. Yep. Uh and this one was taken by Seiko for the Prospex 1968 divers re-edition. Um which stirred up a little bit of controversy, I would say. Okay, so what do where you do you what think the um uh where do you think the where did you see the controversy? So I have to say I thought Seiko was the favorite here and I I said that last week. You know, competing against the Faberger that you you mentioned that uses the um Aginor chronograph movement. Um a really beautiful watch from Mont Blanc, but a pocket watch. Um a Zenith uh pilot chronograph, which is is great, but something pretty similar to what they've been doing for a while. Um Ulysses Nardan Diver that again great, but not something that strikes me as super different from what they've been doing. And um tags um kind of Gulf uh liveried Monaco, which again is something pretty traditional |
| Unknown | . Now I I by the way on the Monaco Gulf I uh have to say um that that's one of those watches that you know and this sort of speaks to how you know like jury decision making you know can go on and just taste in general. I look at that thing and I see the Gulf logo and I'm like six years old on a business trip with my dad again. Yeah. Ye |
| Unknown | ah. Yeah. Um but I I thought Seiko was the favorite here, but uh if we think about you know, this in the context of the ceremony itself, yeah, uh you come right out of the gate and the first three prizes go to a German watchmaker, an Austrian watchmaker, and a Japanese watchmaker in Geneva for the Grand Prix de Genève. You know, people there was there was kind of you could feel out in the crowd, you could feel it getting kind of tense that we're three awards in and the Swiss haven't won anything. Right, right, right. Well well, you |
| Unknown | know, um it's uh uh there are two ways in which Geneva is the world capital of watchmaking. Um the first is of course it's was kind of the center of uh manuf I'm gonna let you run with that one. Yeah. And uh you know, suddenly uh you know all of these sumptuary laws were passed and suddenly the jewelers couldn't make jewelry anymore, um but it became a center of assembly for um for watches and fine watch making in very short order, and you know that tradition is you know with us down to the present day, and that's part of the you know part of the joy of Swiss watchmaking. It's just such a cool piece of you know really European and even world history. Um the other way in which it's a center of watchmaking is it's kind of a communication center. So I mean, these are all even though watches might come from you know some place that's not Switzerland per se, um there's still an awful lot of appreciation for just good watchmaking here. For sure. I'll take the Sago as an example. You know, um I you know uh w you and I both uh over the years have you know we've made a lot of friends in Switzerland and a lot of friends in the industry and and you know I mean and you've probably I I think you've had this experience too. You hear a lot of admiration expressed often off the rec But you hear an awful lot of admiration expressed for uh Seiko and Grand Seiko by people in the Swiss watchmaking industry. Absolutely and especially |
| Unknown | the people who really get it. Yeah, yeah. You can kind of tell who really knows what they're talking about and who doesn't by the people who poo-poo Seiko or get excited about Seiko. The people who you know see somebody wearing a grand Seiko and kind of turn their nose up, you know immediately that they don't act actually know what they're talking about |
| Unknown | . Yeah, or the or just that um uh I mean th well I'll uh without mentioning names, I'll give you two examples. So uh there's there's one person that I know who I who has been involved with watches there see I,'m using a gender neutral pronoun, just to like no clues. Um who they've and this person has been involved with watches their entire professional life, grew up around them, and has you know sees uh you know ha has seen you know just about everything that the watch industry has to offer. And this person has a little bit of a hard time getting around the the fact that if a watch is called Seiko to them, that's an also ran. Just because it's and not because it's uh you know comes from Japan necessarily, but just because like that that name is not associated with an aspirational, you know, category. Okay. On the other hand, you know, there's another person that I know uh who has been uh who's an extremely um influential person in the watch industry from a design perspective. Um and uh I was very, very surprised to hear this from that from this from this person. Um you know, they actually uh uh adore Grand Seiko, uh from a design standpoint. And this is a person who's not necessarily driven by um, you know, the values that make a lot of, you know, serious watch nuts gravitate towards Grand Seiko, but they just this person just thinks it's their their amazing designs. Which they are. Yeah. To be fair. Three three uh first prize winners in three different categories, one right after the other uh and not a not a Swiss watch among them. But good watch making, you know. And one of the things that I'm kind of like you know proud of as a juror is um yeah, you know, we're not we're we're uh we're interested in uh and and the GPHG I think is uh is open to uh good watches regardless of where they come from. A good watch is good watch first, and it you know certainly uh uh uh as we can see, it doesn't have to be Swiss to win |
| Unknown | . For sure. Um All right, let's go to two categories that we take Uh-huh uh next up was the men's category, uh which was won by Acrivia for the Chronomet Contemporane. Um which as you alluded to earlier is probably my personal favorite watch of the year. Yeah. Um I went to the booth, I I talked about this last week, but I I went to the booth at Basel World and uh didn't really know what to expect, and as I walked in, Philippe Dufour walked out and I said, Okay, this this might be something. Right. And this watch is just unbelievable. I mean, from a technical standpoint, from the movement architecture to the finishing, to the design of the dial and the shape of the case. Like to me, this is simplicity level stuff. Like this is one of the best time only watches being produced anywhere today |
| Unknown | . For sure. And you know uh I think um the under the best of circumstances a winning watch in any of these categories kind of transcends the category. Um that's a good that's a good thing to think about. Yeah, and I think the I think the Acrivia is uh it's just a gr it's just such a wonderful watch on so many levels. Um it it it it's's kind of irresistible. You know, I mean you look at the quality of the movement finishing. And you know, this is a young guy who has, you know, uh I mean all he's done um you know for the last few years is uh work with uh unceasing fervor at uh you know trying to make what is in his view the the best you know possible watch and the most interesting possible watch. Yeah. And I mean uh you know the finishing is incredible. Um I think he's done a fantastic job with the design. Um you know, and as we were talking about before, th uh this is a difficult category to evaluate. You get down to these final six watches and gosh, you know, there's not a whole lot of similarity between any of them |
| Unknown | It's kind of at this point it's a gut gut feeling. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. I think one of the things that I I loved about this last night was this award got announced and the crowd went nuts. Like people were cheering and whooping and hollering. Like people went crazy for this guy who makes like I think he makes like, you know, fifty, sixty watches a year. Yeah, in Geneva. It's like him and his brother and a couple other watchmakers. Yeah. Um it's certainly not something where, you know, he's like an industry legend. Uh but people were so excited for him. And he he has a really fascinating story. You know, he uh his family were refugees, came to Geneva when he was young, um, I believe from the Balkans, um he kinda had had to face some adversity. And he's been doing this for fifteen years, mostly kind of unrecognized. Uh and to finally get this this jumping off point, I think I think everybody who knows him and knows what this represents uh really were kinda happy for him, genuinely. And and you could see in his acceptance speech that he was just completely overwhelmed. Yeah, yeah |
| Unknown | . You know, it's uh it I think the reaction from the audience speaks the d to the degree to which Geneva is both uh a really cosmopolitan international town but also kind of a village. I mean you know, it's amazing after coming here um uh you know, to write about watches for you know probably close to fifteen years now. It's it's a small town. Oh, yeah. Everybody everybody knows everybody. Absolutely. You know, and I mean you can miss that whole, you know, side of Geneva if you just come here for business. You know, I mean uh you know, you're you're uh you know you're on an expense account and uh you know you stay uh you know you stay in the hotel and one of the four hotels that's right yeah that's right you know you stay in the same hotels and uh you know you have meetings in the same meeting rooms and uh you can you can do that for your entire professional life and never really sort of get to know Geneva outside of that part of Geneva that's kind of, you know, walled off uh you know for business travelers. And you know, you can get a lot of work done. Um but if you if you cover watches, uh I think you s see probably a side of the actual day to day life of Geneva that it's maybe a little bit harder. I wouldn't because of the I mean I'm obviously not in the pharma industry or banking or anything like that and God knows I've never you know worked for the UN. Um but uh it's it's it's a very, very, very close-knit community and it's a it's a family really. It's really a giant extended family. And like and like every family, you know, there are people who like refuse to speak to each other and uh you know, like uh their their kids aren't allowed to talk to their uh to to the other guy's kids at Christmas. Um but it it really is a family and I think a lot of people were rooting for him just because there's a lot of respect for um you know what he's tried to do over the last uh over the last years and um and and there's a there's a there's a sense that he is kind of you know a a relatively young person who's an embodiment of a lot of values that the industry really respects and that it's uh maybe a little bit harder for the bigger brands to actualize because of the you know pressures that they're under as you know larger business entities and is and is in many cases group brands um he doesn't have to operate under those constraints. Right. Which gives him a lot of freedom but also means um you know much,, much higher risks. And to see his persistence and vision awarded, I I think everybody was just like, you know, yeah, go I I agree. You |
| Unknown | know um so moving to the ladies category, uh this one went to Chanel for the boyfriend skelet, um which I think was a a favorite of many people uh at Hodinky over the course of the year. Yeah. Uh this watch is awesome. Um these these are the movements that are are designed in partnership with Roman Gautier. Yep. Um so kind of a little hat tip to to Roman for your uh your work uh winning here. Yeah. Um but this watch is just awesome, you know, it's a really cool skeletonized movement, like very, very open skeletonized movement set into a rectangular case with some diamonds. You have Chanel's proprietary beige gold for the case. It's really, it's really a cool watch. |
| Unknown | It's a super cool watch and like many of the winning watches in other categories, it's a watch that brings together um you know, there are watches that are dichotomizing and there are kind of watches that everybody can kind of you know can sort of get behind. Yeah. Um and this is a watch I think a lot of people felt like they could get behind. It's just it's classic Chanel design. You know, it's extremely chic. They get they got points from the movement nerds for um you know uh producing basically a one-off movement, you know, for this particular watch. And uh you know, you you want uh something that's kind of um unique not only from a design standpoint but mechanically and uh there's a little bit of a premium associated with that. And um, you know, uh I would actually this is a watch that I personally would love. I wouldn't want the diamonds on the bezel necessarily for an everyday watch. Um but uh you know as, a as a Jetch swat, I think it could work just fine |
| Unknown | . I think you should wear the swatch with the diamonds. I would love that. If anybody wants to crowdfund uh getting Jack a Diamond Set Chanel boyfriend skillette, I'm open. I'm open.uld S weho start like a GoFundMe and put it in the show notes? Go go fund my GoFundMe's diamond watch. I would be really into that. So going on to more diamonds, uh next up was the jewelry category, which was extra special because that's the category you presented, right? |
| Unknown | Yeah. Um well, uh I I I'm I'm gonna be honest, uh I can't think of uh anybody on the jury probably uh more Oh I disagree. Well you know it's uh I I mean I've tried to learn as as much as I can about uh you know gem quality in general and horological gem setting, but this is one of th thoseings where you know, if you don't have someone sh telling you what to look for, and if you don't look at a lot of stones and and get a chance to kind of compare the good the the the amazing with the spends most of their like I do spends most of their time looking at watches on their sort of technical and practical merits. You know, that said, um I I thought there was some, you know, I mean each one of these watches uh, you know, kind of had its own um uh things to recommend it. Um a lot of beautiful stones, um you know, some really, really fantastic um, you know, setting work. Um, you know, the the Pretzius, for example, you know, the uh the trillion turbion of turbions. I mean, you know, y it it it it is what it is, as they say. Um but the you know, the the quality of the stones is fantastic and uh you know, just a sort of a a uh a big uh over the top, you know, statement statement piece. You know, I mean it's the winner was the Van Cleef. Yeah, the winner was the was the Van Cleef. Uh so the secret de cocinel um is it's a secret watch and one of the things I think that's I love the term secret watch by the way. Yeah yeah there's somet |
| Unknown | hing so uh I don't know. Sort of charming about the idea of it's a it's a secret watch. Don't tell anyone. What's the secret? There's a watch |
| Unknown | . Yeah. You know, I mean s it's uh there's something sexy about secrets, right? Uh. And uh it it''ss it's it's a a pretty damn sexy watch. I mean uh the design is fantastic. Uh you know, the sort of leaf with a ladybug sitting on it. Um I I personally love um jewelry watches that have, you know I hate to use the word 'cause it's like s such a you know, you know what's coming. Well you hear somebody say whimsy and you think, Well there's a there's a jerk. Oh boy. Um you know, but there's a wonderful whimsy. You get to use that word once a year on the pod. Yeah. Yeah, and um one of the great things about the uh the Van Cleef is it's uh it's a uh a high jewelry ladies' watch, uh but with a m uh with a mechanical movement as well. I didn't watch. Yeah. Interesting. Um which I think was uh a very big um a very big draw uh for the jury. Um you know, all other things being equal, a room full of serious watch people, uh, you know, they're they're I I mean basically um I think the sentiment f,air or not, is that a a high jewelry watch with a quartz movement is basically a piece of jewelry with sort of time telling us an afterthought. And you know, to sort of go the extra mile and put in a uh you know a very, very small mechanical movement was uh I think that's something that won a lot of jury members over. |
| Unknown | Sure. Sticking with the kind of arts and crafts theme, uh let's go to the Metier d'art category. Yeah. Uh which was won by Hermes for the uh Arso uh Robe du soir, which is a really fascinating watch. Um it has a dial that is a mosaic image of a horse. Yep. Um but the mosaic is not tile or stones. It's tiny pieces of leather. Yes. Thousands of tiny pieces of leather? Yes. Yes. It's super weird. Many, many tiny |
| Unknown | pieces of leather. I'm into it. How you know, uh and so is the jury apparently. Uh you know, if you're uh the there's there now there were some uh I mean uh uh for various reasons, all of the other pieces in this category. You know, they were there for a reason obviously. You look at the Vashionel, for instance, and you know uh I mean enameling and engraving and you know, yada yada yada, you know, it was sort of like um a lot of different uh, you know f,airly challenging highcraft things going on in that particular piece. But I think the Hermes is I mean, you know, gosh, doing a a leather mosaic of a horse. It's so Hermes. That might be the most Hermes thing. It's awesome |
| Unknown | . |
| Unknown | Yeah, yeah, exactly. And um, you know, uh uh so say you, so so said the jury. And um yeah, I think it I think it I think uh people just uh you know f f sort ofell in love with both the idea and the execution. And it's different, you know? I mean different is never bad. Well, |
| Unknown | no, it can be terrible. I think that's it I was gonna say I was gonna I've I wasn't gonna challenge you on that, but next up was the Ladies Complication category. Yeah. And that went again to Van Cleef. That's a that's a twofer for Van Cleef. Yeah. Yeah. Um and this is for the uh Lady Arpels Planetarium, which uh if you are a regular reader of Hodinky, you will know we are all huge fans of this uh complication with the kind of mini planetarium under this really dramatic domed crystal. Um it's just flat out awesome. Like this this to me was one of the shoe-ins of the of the show. Like if this watch didn't win, I would have been shocked. |
| Unknown | Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, and again, uh arguments for uh the other pieces as well, you know, they're good arguments for all of these watches But uh you know, a little solar system on your wrist. Um it's it's uh it's another example of how the winning watch typically represents kind of like the whole package And then it's just so uh like uh not whimsical. Um yeah, you're not allowed to say that. But it's a very kind of like poetically compelling complication. And I think Van Cleef did they they did uh you know something really beautiful with this. Um you know you just sort of look at it and it transports you it takes you a little bit out of yourself, right? |
| Unknown | Um so that's two wins for Van Cleave, one win for Hermes and one win for Chanel. And I think it's cool to see, you know, obviously all of these brands been making watches for for quite a long time. Um but I think there were there are brands that sometimes quote unquote serious watch people, whatever, whatever that means, uh don't necessarily take as seriously as they should. And I think this is a good lesson that there are some folks outside of the traditional pantheon of who we think of as high watchmakers doing really good things. And things that you know uh in a lot of these cases there are great movements associated with these watches uh and great technical um innovations associated with these watches but either way they're making really great products that excite people. Yeah. And and that's you know, not something that I think can be brushed aside easily. Absolutely. Absolutely. So after the ladies' complication category, we had the men's complication category. Uh and that went to Laurent Ferrier for the Galais annual calendar. Um what are your thoughts on this |
| Unknown | one? Uh again I mean all of these categories are uh challenging to evaluate simply because Sure. Um I found this one really, really hard because uh I think that there are um maybe more than any other category, there are things to sort of individually really, really like about each one of these. And again, not to everybody's taste. Um But you look at the Girard Perigo Neo Turbion, for instance, and you know, it's it's next to them, you know, we it's uh shown next to the Moser on the GPHG website, and boy oh boy do those watches have nothing to do with each other. Completely in terms of design aspirations, in terms of style, in terms of what they, you know, say about uh you know each of the companies uh that make them, in terms of you know what the designers were going for. They just have zip to do with each other. Sure. You know, and um uh you know the bulgary octofenisova turbion automatic you looked at next to the crayon everywhere um the Vacheron which is uh you know probably um the closest to the Laurent Ferrier in terms of what it's going for, but still going for something pretty different. You can't just throw your hands up in the air and say I think I love you all. But you know, I I really thought that these were the you know, six just fantastic watches. And you know, without getting to the specifics of which one, you know, I personally found the most appealing, I I I I really struggled with this one. I think a lot of the jury did |
| Unknown | too. I love the Laurent Ferrier, but I'm shocked the Bulgari didn't this category. Yeah. That's the the Octofenissimo uh turbion ultra thin. Like I'm I'm shocked that watch didn't. Yeah. That watch set three world records. It's that that is a serious, serious watch. Um and again, no knock against Laurent Ferrier, and it was it was great to see Mr. Ferrier himself uh go up to accept the award. Um but I I this one shocked me. |
| Unknown | Not that Bulgarie needs a whole lot of help at this point um in terms of getting people to you know I mean um just as an aside, I think one of the uh amazing things about Bulgary is um the degree to which they have really taken their uh sort of, you know, core assets and competencies and made themselves into a watch uh into a watch brand that uh that you just like have to take seriously. Totally. You know, like like like them or dislike them, they have uh they've done some really, really incredible things in quite a short period of time. And I think it speaks to um, you know, how well they've done um in general with both the technical and the aesthetic aspects of their watchmaking that it seems like they've been doing it forever. Yeah. And they haven't. Right. You know, uh you know, at this level |
| Unknown | . Um next up there is the chronograph category, which was taken by Singer Reimagined. Um we talked a little bit about this watch before, but the the technical aspects of this watch are sort of unimpeach |
| Unknown | able, um I guess. Um Yeah, you know, um the s the Singer is um I think the Singer's a really cool piece. The um you know it's to to make a a very feeble pun, it's a very movement-driven watch. Oh boy. Um it's uh the so the the Agengraph uh chronograph movement is if there's if you want to do a deep dive on um you know some of the most interesting and possibly controversial aspects of modern movement design, this is a this is a great place to start answering. You have done that, I believe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's uh uh you know and and uh you know me personally um there are things that I find absolutely fantastic about it, but you also sort of say to yourself, well gosh, um, you know, how many of these you know sort of exotic technical solutions that introduce a great deal of complexity and bring in a lot of modern material science. You know, how much do we really need? Um, you know, in terms of, you know, just sort of a classic well built lateral clutch chronograph. I mean, you know, i y one of the criticisms that you could make of the uh of the Asengraf is, well, you know, these these are solutions kind of in search of real problems and like what's wrong with a nice lateral clutch chronograph. But on the other hand, you know, uh if the if the question is do we really need this, well you could say that about you know the whole enterprise of mechanical watchmaking as a whole. So um in terms of I think uh it I think it won a lot of hearts and minds on the b on the strength of its ingenuity. Um I think it's sort of um you know retro cool uh looking forward and backward, you know, design um appealed to a lot of people. And um I mean gosh, you know, Jean-Marc Wiederecht is uh you know he's he's one of uh our great treasures um in the first he was. He was. Yeah. Yeah. And uh uh I I I think that there was just a you know a sense on the part of the jury that uh so again, you know, there were there were a lot of narratives that brought toget that brought people together. There was the sort of um, you know, um independent mad genius narrative, there was a sort of uh you know hardcore movement nerd narrative. Um you know, there was a sort of retro cool, you know, sort of design element. So I think that this was a watch that a lot of people could |
| Unknown | like for a lot of different reasons. Nice. Um going in a different direction, there was the cr uh chronometry award um so these are watches that are kind of focused on on precision and accuracy you know right turbillons uh remontoirs and and the like um and here we have a Debatune, uh, the DB25 Starivarius, which uh if you've never seen a Debatune in the metal, figure out who near you retails them and go see one. Or find a collector who has one and go see one. These watches are unbelievable in the metal. Yeah. Uh even if they're not sort of personally your style. Like I can't see myself ever wearing a Debatune on a on a regular basis. Yeah. But they are unbelievable pieces of of art and watchmaking. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and this this watch is no exception. I mean, this is a a constant force turbine with a deadbeat seconds. Like this is this is yeah, real, real serious stuff. And then on top of it all, high polished titanium, you know, blue dial. Like it's it's really, you know |
| Unknown | , top to bottom uh killer killer piece. Yeah, I mean I to see you well um I mean you've said it. There's not a whole heck of a lot left for me to say. There's uh that's that's really you know, again, it was just it was sort of the whole package. And um you know for uh for a a watch to win in any of these categories I think it really has to cut across um, you know, sort of several divides in terms of taste. And there's just there's a lot to like. Not not that other watches in this category didn't, you know, do that uh either, but there's something so immediately visually compelling about the debatoon. Um, you know, that giant expanse of blue with uh you know the with the with with uh you know sort of star motif and then everything that's going on technically you know and the sort of uh you know like comeback kid um you know narrative behind it. I mean it's it's uh I think it won for a reason. Aw |
| Unknown | esome. Uh we're starting to get toward the end. Um so the last of the kind of standard prizes of of the standard categories is the mechanical exception category. Um I gotta admit I have no idea what the hell mechanical exception means. I don't think anybody does. I've never talked to anyone who knows what that category is. Yeah. But I feel like regardless of how you define it, this watch fits the bill. Like it doesn't really matter how you define it. Right. Right. Um this watch has been in process for for a number of years. Uh you know, there were some ups and downs I know in its its development, but it's it's finally ready. It's it's out there and uh it's basically as superlative as it gets. Yeah, yeah, for su |
| Unknown | re. You know, um it's uh it's everything that uh if you love Grubble Forzy, it's everything that you love about Grubble Forzi. Uh you know, a sort of uh I love the if there. Yeah, yeah. Well y you know, I it's there I mean their watches are certainly not everybody's brand of vodka from a design standpoint. I like that. That's a good that's a good choice, Jack. It's uh it's uh I mean it is um maximalist watchmingak uh for sure, but it's not maximalist watchmaking just for the sake of being, you know, kind of an over-the-top visual statement. Um, you know, you go in there and you start one of the things that Grubble Forzi is justly famous for is the quality of its finishing. And this is a c this is really uh luxury in the most in one of the most old school senses possible. You know, I mean their whole approach to watchmaking is it takes as long as it takes and it costs as much as it costs. And take it or leave it. And most of us have to leave it 'cause, you know, it's a six hundred and fifty thousand dollar watch or you know, what whatever the price is. But um you know, i in the abstract you look at this and uh the design is dichotomizing, but um from a uh sort of um mechanical ingenuity standpoint and from a f from a finishing standpoint as well. Uh you know, you might not care for the you know the design language in the abstract, but I think that if you're a serious watch person, you know, and you start looking at uh the quality of execution on every element, it's like it's hair-raising. Yeah. Uh you know, how good it is. The |
| Unknown | first time this is another one kind of similarly to Debatune. Like if you've never seen a grubble in person. Right. Go find one. Right. Like track one down and see it. Right. Uh aga |
| Unknown | in, we forget. Like we you know, we we get uh a Gruble in the office to photograph uh you know once or twice a year, and I actually had a chance to um uh to wear one as a sort of like you know, walk around piece at B |
| Unknown | as Aaron Powell It was a little terrifying. |
| Unknown | I you know, I I avoided the more dangerous neighborhoods of Basel. Um but and it's uh but m you know, the the the point that I'm I'm trying to make I guess is that uh it's really, really hard to see a group of forcey in person. I mean, they make under a hundred watches a year. Right. And um, you know, unless you're a watch journalist or uh you have pretty highfalutin friends, it's fairly hard to see one of the you know, I mean uh I I can't remember the last time I saw one even at a watch event. Like there there's just they just they just don't make that many of them. True. Um but boy oh boy is it worth uh is it worth seeing one in person. Yeah |
| Unknown | . Uh so now we're into the special prizes. So we'll move through these a little a little faster. Uh these are essentially special prizes that the jury awards, right, Jack? That you kind of pick from the |
| Unknown | overall selection of watches. That's right. That's right. And by the way, um for the special jury prizes, you're not restricted to the six finalist watches. You can pick from any of the Oh interesting. Oh I didn't know that. Fascinating |
| Unknown | . Yeah. Um well spoiler alert, all of the winners are from the short list, but um But there have been years in which there that wasn't the case. I never knew that. Yeah. Um every day's a school day, people. Yep. Um so first up, the Audacity Prize. Um it's exactly what it sounds like. And this went to uh Constantine Shaken for the clown watch.. Yep Uh which I'll admit, no offense to to to Constantine. Um what he's doing is mechanically interesting and and seems to excite a lot of people. Uh I'm so not into this. It's just not my thing at all. And like it seems like we've been talking about this watch or some variation on this watch for like three or four years now. And I'm just I'm kinda over it, dude. Oh yeah? I just can't. I'm I'm just over it. It just feels like I I get it. It's provocative. It's interesting. There's some cool stuff going on mechanically. I'm glad he did this. Great. Yeah. But I feel like this is a thing like we should have acknowledged it once and then been like okay cool we're moving on now yeah but it seems like every year now there's like a new variant it wins some prize or like it ends up on everybody's like best debazo world lists and I'm just I'm just over it. I'm just over it. And again, no offense to him and I'm not trying to like poo-poo what he's doing. Like I'm all about supporting independent watchmaking. But like this just Are you though, Stephen? Maybe maybe not apparently. Um Stephen Pulver an enemy of independent watchmakers. Um yeah, I don |
| Unknown | 't know. I'm just I'm just over it. I mean, hey, look, it's it's a very, very love it or hate it watch, maybe more so than any other piece in the entire um in the entire lineup. Uh the uh if you're looking for audacity, it's you know it's pr it's fair. That's very important. And I think that the I think that there was a I mean my personal feeling is that uh recognition from the GPHG specifically was a little bit overdue for this particular piece. And we haven't really had in the I mean there was a design category um in the in the early days for the GPHG which sort of went away after uh a certain point and I'm not not a hundred percent sure why because I wasn't part of the you know proceedings back in those days. Um but you know if you think about it there really isn't another category where you can um where you can put together watches whose primary goal is to uh get your eyelids right up underneath your eyebrows. Um uh you know and uh uh this is this is a place now where you know finally we have you know we have a chance to uh you know, put watches that are really trying to do something different that is um well audacious, I mean, you know, for lack of a better word. And I think I'll give you I'll give you that. Yeah. I'll concede that one. Yeah. And uh you know the that I think chaiken was um I think I think it charmed a lot of people and uh you know there was a there I think there was a strong sense that uh uh that the the from the jury that they wanted in general that we wanted to uh you know uh kind of express our appreciation for the guts to go do something different and uh you know for the different ness of uh Mr. Chaikin's approach. Okay. I wish I knew what he'd uh said in Russian. I suppose I could try |
| Unknown | and find the transition. It was the only speech last night given in Russian. So the the ceremony for people who don't know, the ceremony is conducted uh predominantly almost exclusively in French, with occasional presenters and award winners uh speaking in their native languages. So there's some English, uh we got some German. A little Japanese. A little Japanese. And then we got some Russian toward the end of the ceremony. Yep. Next we have the Innovation Prize. Yeah. And this went to a watch that I would imagine, Jack, was probably one of your favorite watches of the whole awards. Well yeah. Which is the Crayon Everywhere Horizon watch, which is the first watch, I believe, to feature a an independently settable sunrise and sunset That's correct. So it's not hard-coded into the movement. Normally, if you get a sunrise-sunset, you basically the watch is made for a particular location on Earth. Exactly |
| Unknown | . It's made for a particular latitude and longitude. And it works. Uh sunrise, sunset watches, they basically work the way an equation of time works. There's a little potato shaped, I mean, you know, kind of a lumpy potato, but there's a there's a little potato shaped cam uh that rotates once per year, and there's a feeler that rides around on the outside of the cam and that feeler controls the position of a hand um and the cams are specific to a particular uh latitude and longitude so you know you can get a watch that shows you sun therise, sunset in Geneva but, it's not gonna work in New York or Sao Paulo or wherever else you happen to be. And the cool thing about the crayon, um uh and it's just such an ingenious watch, it's uh it's a a little analog astronomical computer. So you input uh certain data, you input GMT, date, um your latitude and longitude, and it will uh it will actually output through a very, very um ingeniously designed I mean it's an engineering achievement as much as it is a uh watchmaking achievement. It will output the correct time for sunrise and sunset for your particular location pretty much anywhere on Earth. I think you have to be um you know south of the Arctic Circle and north of the Antarctic Circle or something like that. Okay. I think that's I think that's all right. Yeah. Yeah. What's the mo northernmost uh decent sized town in uh Norway? I think it's Tromslo or something like that. Um, shout out to Tromslo, Norway. Um you know, and uh you know, in in terms of innovation, I mean it really never been done before. First of all there aren't that many sunrise sunset watches to begin with. Um you know, the first two uh back in I I would have to look up the dates, but back in the early two thousands we had the Audemar Piguet. Um that watch is so awesome. Yeah, the uh the the equation of time. Uh the Jules Otomar's equation of time. Um |
| Unknown | oh I was thinking of the the Royal Oak. Yeah. There's a Royal Oak that does sunrise, sunset. That's amazing. |
| Unknown | Same movement, but it was originally introduced in a Juladmar case. Um and uh Martin Braun, uh just a couple of months after that, uh after the AP came out, came out with his uh uh EOS watch, uh EOS, which was uh Sunrise Sunset Watch as well. And you know, you I keep meaning to try and find one because um you know when that came out it just like knocked everybody's socks off also and uh you know the the whole sort of um scrappy independent nar inde uhpendent watchmaker narrative was uh you know working for him as well. But you know, uh you you see them done very, very occasionally uh as one-offs uh f for particular locations, but the reason that you don't see uh you don't see them made very often is because every one of them is basically a custom piece. Like the client comes to you and says, Okay, I live in, you know, New York um and I'd like a Jules Mar equation of time. And they say, okay, thank you. And then you know AP they they uh don't make that particular watch anymore, but you know it's the same for the Royal Like version. You know, AP basically says, Okay, um thank you for the deposit, we'll get back to you in I forget how long it takes, like thirteen to eighteen months, I think. Um and they uh calculate the correct shape of the cam and uh the cams are cut and polished and placed in the watch and you know the whole thing has to be assembled. And then you get your watch and y you know, it'll show you sunrise and sunset in your in that one particular spot on Earth. And then you have to move. And then if you move. And you throw yourself off a bridge. Yeah. Yeah. Or um and and then after you, you know, crawl back to the bank and crawl back up on the bridge and say to yourself, Well that was kind of an emotional reaction to a problem with a watch. Then you know you call up AP or you know w whichever one of a you know just a tiny handful of other companies make these things and they will cut new cams for you. Right. But that's a whole process as well. So you know to be able to to have a sunrise-sunset watch that works absolutely anywhere and that you can once you know how the programming process works, you can literally do all of the inputs in under five minutes. That's wild. Um and and and in a watch that for all of its complexity is is very, very legible, uh and really, really easy to use and a very wearable size. Um, you know, uh it's it's |
| Unknown | it deserved this prize so richly, I think. Awesome. Uh then we have the revival prize, which is for something vintage inspired. Right. Uh and this one went to Vachon Constantine for the Historiques uh Calendrier 1942 triple calendar. Right. Uh I'm assuming that you didn't find this a controversial choice. Not at all. Absolutely not. I I think this this was was the right choice if I can say that. Yeah. Um I think that watch is amazing and and you know, it kind of fits fits the build perfectly |
| Unknown | . And talk about a watch that you could live with every day. Oh, and just never, you know, I mean, you know the, these uh these beautiful, beautiful uh, you know, uh exquisite thin hands, uh, you know, extremely tastefully done dial, um uh, you know, classic uh you know sort of date hand complication. Um you know, these wonderful teardrop lugs, I'm uh you know stainless steel case, which is awesome. You know, well I mean it's so quintessentially Vachron. It's so quintessentially Vachron and it's so uh quintessentially the essence of what you really want in a revival prize. You want something that really respects the original design, um, but that has all of the you know sort of convenience and quality associated with modern manufacturing processes and a modern support system. That's just a delectable watch. Delectable. Y'all. Perfect |
| Unknown | . Alright, next up is my this is our our penultimate prize. Uh and my favorite prize of the night. Uh it didn't go to a watch. No. It was the special jury prize, uh, which is kinda like the lifetime achievement award, I guess, uh for for the GPHG. Uh and Arrell Box, our friend at Phillips, uh comes out on stage and says uh to the uh moderator, I guess, to the uh the MC for the evening. Well you said I only have ninety seconds, so I'm gonna make this quick and began rattling off words and catchphrases uh |
| Unknown | Possibly the best use of ninety seconds uh in any public speech uh since I don't know, Demosthenes and Athens and the East. So |
| Unknown | people are again, people start to realize what's going on here and who's gonna win this prize. Man. Reminds me of that uh did you ever watch The Office, the American version of The Office? I have to say no last I didn.'t know There's an episode where Dwight is giving a a speech at a sales conference and basically gives this like Mussolini style speech where he's he's banging on the table and talking about salesmen unite and the people are cheering and you know, it it kinda reminded me of that in a funny way where you know Arel's like ten, twenty seconds into this. Yeah. And pe again, people are cheering and clapping and standing up and yelling at individual individual mentions of things and |
| Unknown | partly had to do with the the fact that by time he wa and this speaks to the skill with which he delivered the uh you know uh his opening remarks. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Uh and that person was Jean-Claude Bieber, um, who, as you probably know, uh recently kind of stepped into a more advisory role at uh LVMH, uh, citing some some health issues uh amongst other things. Uh and I have to say, Jean-Claude was there. He was looking good. He looked like he was healthy and and doing well. And um he looked great. He looked great. And he had he had a big smile on his face. Um he cried on stage, which I have I've seen him get pretty emotional before. I've never seen him like this. Um it was unbelievable. It was it was a really he got a standing ovation. He's the only person who got a standing ovation. A long standing ovation. A long standing ovation. Um It was incredible. I mean, in a similar way to um the response that Reggie Burjeppi uh got uh for the Acrivia win. This was a case where like whether you've worked for Jean-Claude or competed against him or just know him kind of casually. He's somebody who makes a big impression and and really is in a lot of ways responsible for all of us being here and doing this. |
| Unknown | Um he's one of those he was one of the uh people who was really instrumental in driving the revival of mechanical watchmaking. And uh, you know, like uh Nicholas G. Hayek um and uh you know a handful of other people. Um he's a big part of the reason that we're actually here in Geneva and able to have this conversation. Completely and uh he's uh a a m a very, very complicated person. Um, you know, uh he can be infuriating, uh, he can be mercurial, um, he can be dictatorial, he can be unexpectedly um, you know, kind and compassionate. Uh you think he's the worst listener on earth and that he has no interest in anyone else's opinion and suddenly he's like listening to you uh you know uh you completely forgot you said but he's been listening closer than you've been listening to. And you know, and he can be a very, very hard man and he can be a very, very soft, you know, soft hearted individual. And um I think that he is this is something one of the things that he talked about uh last night, you know, in his sort of thank you speech. Um I th he's very, very much aware of all of the different directions in which his you know personality has pulled him uh you know over the years. Um but uh the one th you know the you you could not uh find a person on earth who's more truly in love with and passionate about watchmaking. And I remember a conversation that I had with him a couple of years ago, um, you know, where he said the thing that scares him the most is how many people there are nowadays who are involved in uh the watchmaking industry who just don't care |
| Unknown | He is watchmaking, yeah. You know, through and through and it really showed through last night. I I I have to say it was by far the most moving part of the ceremony. Yeah. Um it was great to be there. It was, it was. And I I love the way he finished the speech as he said that you know when he was in school he he remembered that he had a a teacher who told him Beaver, you know, you're You're hopeless. You're hopeless. You're you're dumb and you're hopeless and there were only two hopes for you. One, that your family's rich and you never have to work. Or that somebody makes you the boss and you can just hire people smarter than yourself. And he said, I'm very lucky. I got to be the second. This is a w this award is for all of you. And he kind of bowed to uh to the different directions of the crowd and uh graciously walked off stage. And it was it was really, really a nice kind of special moment where everybody could kind of come together at the end of the ceremony. Yeah, you know, um and |
| Unknown | uh what one of the criteria for the special jury award is that the person should uh you know still be with us but no longer be actively uh no no longer be active professional. They should they should you know should should have retired basically sort of a lifetime achievement award. Uh but you know, um I don't know, Jean Claude Beaver retiring that's like I mean I mean I remember uh Akira Kurosawa, you know, um, you know, allegedly retired at one point and he was like, Yeah, I'm done, I'm never gonna I've I've said everything I need to say and you know, like two years later, you know, he came out with another, you know, sort of amazing film. And I think if you're I think if you're driven to um if you're driven by passion, you know, uh sort of saying to yourself, Well, it's been a been a good run, now I'm gonna, you know, go and uh Yeah, and putter around in my garden and uh you know walk up the mountain with the cows once a year. I I just I I I don't know. We'll we'll we'll see. We'll |
| Unknown | see. I think we're gonna see more of that. Uh all right. We're we're here at the end. The last award. The uh aguidor, uh the grand prize for the night. The best watch of the year, some would say. Right. And the statue is a very creepy, large golden hand. They really have to get better statues, but that's that's a whole separate conversation. But these awards are super creepy looking. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Um actually the you know, the uh the the the GPHG award, the Aguido, it kind of reminds me of the the you know, the last scene in Terminator two when uh you know when the when the when the Terminator's like you know sinking into that uh mass of you know molten steel and you s like you know the the last thing sticking out is his putting one of these on my mantle. Like it's just like ugh. You might feel differently if you were a watch brand and you just won one. That's fair. Um in the hand, by the way, it's a very substantial award. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. |
| Unknown | Okay. It's good good six or seven pounds. Oh wow. All right. See, this is why we have you here. You have the insider perspective. Yeah. Uh so Jack, do you want to tell us which watch took h |
| Unknown | ome the biggest prize of the night? So Le Guidor, uh the uh prize was given to the Beauvais uh Recital twenty-two Grand Recital. So nice they named it twice. Um Great. I saw Mr. Rafi after the awards ceremony last year. Mr. Rafi being the Pascal Rafi. Yeah, he's the owner and founder of uh Bove. Yeah. Um who's another one of these kind of like f you know uh fascinating mercurial kind of, you know, uh very, very uh strong minded, you know, independent minded individuals that you see in the watch industry. And and one of the very few uh who also has enough business acumen to uh you know uh m make his c to you know make his uh That might be the understatement of this uh podcast. Yeah. So um we have uh we have a uh retrograde perpetual calendar on the back along with a uh along with a star chart. U Aaron Powell And uh the but the the basic layout of the watch is uh it's um w uh a c so an orary. ORERY is a term for a mechanical model of the solar system. Right. And the word Orary, it's actually somebody's name. There was an Earl of Oury who ordered a famous Orary from someone who was making Oraries before they were called oraries. Um you've now used up that word. I have. Uh so his name is now the Earl of Auraries' name is now um associated with this complication and there's and it's a particular kind of Ourary called a tellurium, which focuses on the relative positions of the moon, the earth, and the sun. And tellurium watches are pretty rare. Ulysses Nardin famous, I think Ulysses Nardin actually made the very first Tellurium wristwatch ever in the mid-1990s uh as part of the trilogy of time. Uh this one is pretty spectacular. So there's a one-minute turbion at the six o'clock position, which also indicates the position of the sun relative to the earth. Uh there's a uh hemisphere showing the earth as seen from the northern hemisphere uh from up just above the north pole, uh which rotates once every twenty-four hours. Uh around it is a uh a little moon, uh which shows the age and phase of the moon and it shows where the moon is in its orbit relative to um uh relative to the earth and relative to the sun. Uh there's a a piece of information missing uh that you would need in order to tell whether there's an actual solar eclipse going on. So when the moon is is positioned in between the sun and the earth, um, it has to be not only um on the uh sort of same plane uh as the it has to be on the same plane as the uh um as the the the earth and the sun in order for there to be an eclipse happening someplace on earth. And because the moon's orbit is actually tilted um slightly relative to the Earth, um, you know, you don't get an eclipse every time there's a new moon. Um but you can kind of, you know, you can kind of sort of make a guess at whether or not there's a possibility of an eclipse. And uh what else have we got? We've got a retrograde minutes display, we've got a power uh to the left, we've got a power reserve on the right, um and uh you know, just a a a f a phenomenally complex watch adjust mechanically. And then you sort of look at the quality of the finishing, um, the quality of the execution. Uh I mean no points lost there, you know, whatsoever. Um you know, uh the steel work is fantastic. Um and I think the you know uh the the thing that obviously is the most compelling about the watch is this uh hand painted uh hemisphere representing the earth. So this is actually done in several layers of um uh what's uh what's called a cold enamel. So uh this is basically a thermosetting epoxy resin. Um it's not fired enamel, it's a different process, different material. Uh and it's uh there are there are several layers. Uh there's a clear layer th so there's the there's the layer that represents the earth and the oceans. There's a layer uh above that uh clear coating layer. Um and within the clear coating layer that's where you've that's where the uh uh clouds um that are a part of the display are situated. So they actually seem to be the clouds actually seem to be floating above the surface of the earth. And uh there is uh luminova uh luminova pigment mixed in with uh paints that were used for the earth. And uh when I was talking to Pascal Rafi about this watch afterwards, I found out something I didn't know, which is that uh getting the composition of the resin, nobody had ever tried to do this before um with uh cold enamel. I I mean uh mix, you know, luminous material. Right. And getting it to the right consistency so they could apply it to the hemisphere without everything kind of, you know, dripping and smearing, it took them three years to come up with the correct composition. Nice. So like just that part alone of the watch took, you know took three years to develop. Cool. Um and uh w we uh actually have some um pictures on the site of this watch uh we have some loom shots of this watch. Yeah. And uh it's it's quite a show. It's quite |
| Unknown | a show. It's one of those watches that personally does not speak to me at all. But from an objective standpoint, I can understand why something like this wins. Like it is it is an achievement in watchmaking, it is an achievement in in craft, uh in kind of the the arts that make up the greater kind of watchmaking sphere. Mm-hmm despite the fact that it's not something that interests me as a wristwatch at all |
| Unknown | . Oh yeah. Well I I mean uh you know, y knowing what I do have your personal tastes, I I would say that this is probably the most un Stephen one of the most un Stephen J. Pulverant watches in existence. Pretty un Stephen |
| Unknown | J. Pulverant. That's true. Um yeah, I think, you know, for me something like the the Acrivia is is, you know, something I would have have maybe pushed for this uh for this category because I do think it it you know ticks a lot of the same out of the thing. And it would have been a logical thing to push for. Yeah. Um but I I think, you know, again having seen this watch in in the metal um a few months back there's there's no denying that this watch is is is an exceptional exceptional creation yeah yeah um all right so we've gone through the awards we've run very long. This is probably going to be one of the longer episodes of of Hodinky Radio. But something that I I think is important to kind of wrap up with is you know if you look back at at who's won the awards, you'll notice it's a lot of independent brands and very few sort of big group brands. And that's for a number of reasons. If you look at the chatter on social media, a lot of of folks um are saying, oh, the independents are winning. You know, it's a win for independent watchmaking. And I I I think there's merit to that. I'm not saying that independent watchmakers are not doing exceptional things, they are completely. There are though uh a lack of entries from the larger group brands. Yes. Um, you know, we basically we've seen Swatch Group uh with a handful of exceptions. Uh Wangine is in a couple of categories. Other than that, Swatch Group has basically sat out with the exception of Vascheron and one or two uh shortlisted watches from Mont Blanc. Right. Richmond has sat out, there's no Rolex, there is Tudor, but no Rolex. Right. Uh and there's no paddock and there's no AP. Yeah. So it's a little hard To know how representative these awards actually are of broader watchmaking when Rolex Paddock, AP, most of Richmond, and most of Swatch Group are are sitting out. I mean, no Omega, no Rolex, no paddock, no AP, no JLC, you know, no Cartier. Like it's that's that's a lot |
| Unknown | . I mean, how what what do you what do you think that means for seventy it's seventy seventy five percent of the brands that we spend most of our time talking about? Right. Um are n you know, I mean are not part of this process. So the ch here's the challenge. Um on the brand side, you know, the question sort of is well, why should we expose ourselves to um you know the paddock philips and rolexes of the world uh you know at best this is something that's not relevant to them commercially um sure and uh you know at worst it's you know s,ort of it's a m maybe a little bit cynical, but it's like, okay, why should we expose ourselves uh, you know, to the possibility of you know, the negative PR that's associated with not winning a prize in competition with sure. You know, with uh with some of these smaller guys, you know, just there's there's there's there's no no perceived upside whatsoever, I think. Uh which is a little bit of a shame because and I I have to be frank, I think one of the things the Swiss watch industry does not do very well is kind of pres is have an understanding So you know there's a there's a real tendency, I think, for um management of uh the major luxury groups and uh you know for for for uh you know brand CEOs to kind of think of making watches as the zero sum gay w game uh where uh you know I if if uh the only way I can win is if uh is if uh you know somebody else is Right. And I can understand that. I mean, you know, business can be very cutthroat. You know, you have to make a profit or you're not in business. No no question. Um but uh it means that uh you know huge opportunities are missed to kind of um present this un really unique cultural heritage. I mean, you know, what's h what the reason that um you know uh Switzerland is the world center for uh you know for fine watchmaking and f and arguably for you know watchmaking, you know, period. Um you know Japan being the other um you know major, major center for making watches you know at this point. I mean it's for really real this is a fascinating country. Uh the reason that watchmaking is here is for really fascinating historic reasons. And for the watch industry to sort of not support something that brings together brands across a lot of different divides, I I think it's a shame. I think it's a shame. And you know, one of the things that I would hope as a as a juror is I would I would hope to see more brands participating, you know, in coming years simply with the understanding that um you know if there's if there's no sense of this as a collective enterprise, I think it's going to be very bad for watch |
| Unknown | making. I I agree with you. I think you know the the Grumprix still has a pretty good reputation in the industry and amongst enthusiasts. Uh I think if we get to a point where the kind of, you know, the players that make up, you know, seventy five, eighty percent of the watches actually sold every year aren't participating, it gets really hard. I mean that would be like the Oscars not including the ten highest grossing films. Like you can't you can't have an award like that. Or you know if like you know, Beyonce didn't allow her record to be considered for the Grammys. Like you can't you can't do that and have kind of a valid process. So I think it's a most important |
| Unknown | academy is in a different position because these are you know these are very these are uh movie's a democratic you know product ultimately. And everybody gets to see a movie, so it means everybody gets to have an opinion. Of course. Ignoring what the um you know Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences you know uh has to say about your film means um you basically you you look like a chicken. Uh and I mean you can if if you don't show up it's it's it's and you're nominated it's uh you know it's presumably because uh you have I you know sometimes it's because there's a political agenda, sometimes you know, you just can't make it for personal reasons. But in general, um you know it's a it's a it's a very, very different setup. Yeah. It doesn't go that far. R |
| Unknown | ight. Especially because I mean you just said you cannot show up but your your product is still nominated. Right. Like your your film or your album or whatever. Right. Here you have to actively submit. That's right. Uh |
| Unknown | you know, it it would uh immeasurably enrich the entire process and I think it would be good for watch making as a whole for major brands to participate. But then of course that opens a whole nother can of worms. So let's say for example that Rolex participates in the men's watch category. I mean um Rolex is a uh behemoth presence in the industry on a number of different levels. And um I think there would be a sense that maybe it's not a um it it would solve one problem, but it would create an argument that the playing field is not level you know uh on another level and I think what this really all sort of boils down to is this is never going to be a perfect process. You know the question for me as a you know as a as a two-time participant is you, know, does it give exposure to some interesting watches? And I think the answer is yes. And does it create a conversation around those watches that raises points that are of general interest to the watchmaking community? I think the answer to that is well sh I would love to see more of the bigger brands participate and I think that uh it's uh everybody's loss, including those brands. If they're right. So |
| Unknown | you you heard it here first. If you're if you're listening to this and you work at a brand that does not participate, please participate. It makes mak ites it better for all of us. It's just more fun. It's way more fun. It would be way more interesting if these fields. I think they would ultimately be more competitive also. Yeah. And you know, I mean, uh |
| Unknown | gosh, I mean, you know, I oh I'm I'm scared of I'm I'm scared of not winning uh, you know, because it's uh you know a ne it's a it's a negative PR event. Okay, fine, but uh it's like don't you want to be part of an interesting conversation? Yeah, of course I mean the point to this whole thing is not there's there there were a ton of fabulous watches that didn't win a prize this year, but you know, people enter year after year because they want to be part of an interesting conversation. |
| Unknown | Yeah. Great. Well, I think this was a pretty interesting conversation, if I may say so myself. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Um then uh you know, |
| Unknown | thank you for uh getting us up at uh you know what relatively speaking after the GPHG award ceremony is the crack of dawn for uh Yeah, I would |
| Unknown | I would say so. The sun was up, but barely ish. Great. Well, this was fun and uh congratulations again on your second year as a juror. And uh we |
| Unknown | 're on we're on to the the the uh uh the the the watch uh events are far from over this weekend. We've |
| Unknown | got the options going on. Yeah. The auctions start in you know, just a couple hours, about five hours, five, six hours at Phillips. So Jack and I will be there. By the time you hear this, you'll probably have already seen some of our reporting from uh Phillips and then Christie's and Sotheby's are uh Monday and Tuesday and uh Mr. David Parmigiani has an exhibition of rare watches uh going on at the four seasons that I think we're gonna go check out. I think I might be able to get Jack to go over there to see some enamel dial uh Rolexes and paddocks. So twist twist my arm. Awesome. So thanks for doing this, Jack. And uh thanks everybody for listening. Thanks again to Jack for joining us. This week's episode was recorded at the Grand Hotel Kempin insky Geneva. It was produced by me, Stephen Polverin, and edited by Grayson Korhonen. Please remember to subscribe and rate the show. It really does make a difference for us. Thanks again and see you next week. |