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Navigator And Explorer, Two

Published on Fri, 3 Dec 2021 12:00:00 +0000

Jon goes hands-on with the latest Explorer II and Cole has a charming and budget-friendly alternative.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host James Stacy brings together colleagues John Mayer and Cole Pennington to discuss two very different takes on outdoorsy sports watches: the latest generation Rolex Explorer II (reference 226570) and the Marathon Navigator field watch. The conversation begins with the Rolex Explorer II, a watch that James has long been passionate about, tracing its evolution from the original 1655 reference through various iterations to the current 42mm model.

John, recently returned from paternity leave, shares his hands-on impressions of the new Explorer II, noting key changes including narrower lugs that now accommodate a 22mm bracelet (up from 21mm), the upgraded caliber 3285 movement with 70 hours of power reserve, and subtle dial refinements. The discussion explores the watch's unique position in the Rolex lineup as something of an "odd duck" among professional models, particularly with its distinctive white "polar" dial option and its heritage connection to mountaineering and cave exploration rather than diving or aviation.

The conversation then shifts to the Marathon Navigator, a Canadian military contractor's pilot watch that represents an entirely different approach to tool watch design. Cole explains how Marathon operates primarily through government contracts rather than traditional retail, producing genuine modern military timepieces. The Navigator features a polymer case, tritium tube illumination, and a clever 12-hour rotating bezel that provides GMT functionality without requiring a complicated movement. At $385, it offers remarkable value and authentic military specification, complete with an optional button compass accessory. The episode highlights how both watches, despite vast differences in price and prestige, serve the same fundamental purpose of being reliable tool watches for adventure and travel.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacy This episode of Hodinky Radio is proudly brought to you by the Hodinky Shop and our impressive collection of the latest and greatest from Zenith watches, including the sporty and historic Chronomaster Revival El Primero A three eighty five. Stay tuned for more information or visit shop.hodinky.com to view the entire zenith collection. Hey, it's me, James Stacy, and this past week we had Hodinky covered two rather different takes on an outdoorsy sports watch, and I wanted to dig a little further as both are a point of personal curiosity for yours truly. So, with the goal of exploring these new watches and navigating their disparate places in the market, I asked John and Cole to jump on a call and chat about the latest generation of the iconic Rolex Explorer 2 and the rakishly charming Marathon Navigator. And as with many things in life, you know, it all comes down to details. In some cases, just a millimeter of change can make a considerable difference. So let's get into it. John, Cole, welcome back to the show. Hey, good to be here. It's good to see you, John. It's been it's been a little while. Yeah, John's been busy. Yeah, just back from uh little paternity leave.
John Mayer Yeah, congratulations, of course. Yeah, likewise. Thank you very much. Yeah. You're looking forward to meet the tyke at some point. Yeah, yeah. I can't wait to can't wait to uh introduce little little Ali to all you guys. Yeah. It's been great. Well that'
James Stacy s fantastic. And uh like like Cole said, it's great to see your face, John. It's great to have you back. I'm glad that you got the time away to do the stuff with the fam. But we've got watches to talk about. Absolutely. And the fun thing is this this is a watch that I feel very delayed in finally being able to ask some questions about 'cause it came out in um in in April of of this past year. So we're talking like you know, several months ago. And you saw it a little while ago. This is the brand new Rolex Explorer two, the two two six five seven zero is the reference. I'm a huge explorer two uh head. Uh uh some of my favorite Rolexes are from the the lineage of that one. And the interesting thing is like this is a this is one of those sneaky Rolex releases that looks almost identical, but is actually they they've they've really changed um a handful of little elements. And I know so much of it. This is kind of like um like I've seen the trailer and I've looked at the poster, but I haven't seen the movie. And uh and John, you got a chance to actually see the movie. Have you owned an Explorer 2 in the past? Have you have you had any substantial time with any other reference
John Mayer ? You know, it's interesting. I I have not, and I've never, you know, gone hands-on with any Explorer 2 for more than just a few minutes at a time. Yeah. And in fact, I mean, to me, like you are the Explorer 2 guy. When I think of you, James, I think of the Explorer 2. That's the watch that I identify with you more than any other. But I'm not really an Explorer to guy. Um so I just I came at it with kind of like a a clear um head, I would guess, or clear mind in terms of
James Stacy uh like a blank slate, basically. But certainly you're well versed in the world of Rolex GMTs. You you as also with Cole, who we have on the show, of course, are both real modern, like six-digit GMT nerds. You guys like these watches quite a bit. You've got a Batman, Cole's got a Pepsi. It's always been an interesting thing for me to kind of see how they distance the Explorer 2 from the GMT Master, because I think the GMT Master is more core Rolex. I think it has been since, you know, it came out before the Explorer 2. And then I covered this a little bit in my magazine story, which covered the first several references in volume nine of the magazine. You know, this is always the the Explore 2 was like the odd duck professional Rolex. You know, maybe a Cellini would be even further out, maybe a yacht master in many ways could be further out from the core. But if you think of like the main band members, this is that the this is the the in that boy band of the Rolex professional models, this is kind of the the odd duck, the the out, the little bit of the outside right playing the triangle in the back corner you know the triangle or he's he's the one that gets exactly are these in the in the photo he's the one in the leather jacket that's not really looking at the camera. Yeah right it's true. This isn't Timberlake. This isn't like this isn't the core of the it's something kind of ancillary, but I think there's a huge for me, I love this watch. I love a white dial sport watch. I love its connection to mountaineering. Of course, that's not exactly where it was designed. It was almost designed for the opposite to go into caves. But I love that it became this kind of mountaineers watch, Ed Vista's and and these backgrounds. And I have a sixteen five seventy, which is uh you know, now two generations back, uh the, one that would have ended in twenty eleven when it was a thirty-nine millimeter, forty millimeter watch with um a great GMT movement. And of course, unlike a GMT master, you're doing two time zones, not three, or not the possibility of three, because you don't really have the ability to do, say, like active UTC offset, which is what the rotating bezel on a GMT master gets to you. What do you guys think of this? Let's go back to 2011 when they launched the forty two millimeter two one six five seven zero. Where where did you guys do you guys remember that when it came out? I remember being at um uh b uh I wasn't at Basel yet, but I remember covering it at the
Cole Pennington time. I ha I do not remember that era in time. I don't even know what I was doing in my own life, let alone uh cl
James Stacy ose somewhere in Southeast Asia. Uh something just just fishing. Did wasn't that concerned for whatever was happening in central central Sw
John Mayer itzerland. Yeah, true. Uh how about you, John? I mean I remember it vaguely. I I d I'd remember the the the bump up in size was like the biggest uh part of the news. Um and also the um kind of like more the the callback to the original Explorer 2 with the kind of like the floating hands. Um I remember these details uh a little bit, but uh I can't say I remember it super well. It was you know it was a decade ago. You were at Watchtime Magazine, yeah. You were in the industry. Yeah, yeah, right. No, where was I? Uh I was at Wristwat
James Stacy ch Magazine at the time. Okay. So I mean this was a big departure. So you we start back at the um 1655. Now you have a very strange watch that arguably doesn't look that similar. They both have steel bezels, um, but they had a different handset. You know, we had a non kind of Mercedes-style handset when the watch first came And the idea was not so much to track a second time zone, but you could get a very quick indication on AM, PM, which is the idea was someone could go into a dark environment and know that in this case caving, believe it or not, was the impetus for this design, spelunking, the geological study of caves and the recreation of going into caves. One of the weirdest impetuses to launch an entire new model that has now lasted for like fifty years. But it's an interesting because very quickly they just they kind of made it more Rolexy. It you know this after the 1655 we go to the um sixteen five fifty which is kind of where we established the design we have these days where the role where it starts to feel more Rolex and it's where we have a white dial on a professional model watch. Which doesn't exist
Cole Pennington elsewhere. It does. I mean there was that one or two white dialogue. There's white dial Daytona. Oh a Da
John Mayer ytona, yeah, of course yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, Daytona, of course, yeah. I mean there was uh uh GMT Master, right? Supposedly, right? Supposedly, yeah
Cole Pennington . So it is it is interesting. I that so let's talk about that transition a little bit more. L
James Stacy ike Yeah, so now you have a proper GMT, independently adjustable local jumping movement, which allows you to change time zones while keeping the GMT hand at a reference zone and and referencing the 24 hour bezel around. This is where we started to see them at about 39 millimeters, drilled lugs, black or white dial, and they were immediately connected with a sort of more casual thing than going into caves where suddenly we're seeing, you know, famous skiers, you know, even volcanic studying scientists. Like it wasn't just caving. There's not that anything that casual about volcanic sciences, but you know, it became something a little bit more of the eighties, uh, with with the sixteen five fifty. And and that's kind of where my love, I mean, my dream watch would be a uh an early, a sixteen fifty-five. It's one of my favorite vintage Rolexes. But I see them as that's almost its own thing. And for me, the Explorer 2 genuinely starts when you get the white dial, the red, GMT hand, stuff like that. And there'
Cole Pennington s also a cream dial. Is that right? That's not how it's patinated. There actually was a cream dial produced along for produced for a short amount of time in that era
James Stacy , right? Is it kind of an off white? Not my understanding. It's my understanding that the early white dials, uh they they're called panicatas and And they they aged very quickly to have a creamier color. And then later in the sixteen fifty five, you have ones that still had uh an older version of loom that ages of very rich. And that was kind of where I started for a a sixteen five fifty. And I ended up with the next generation and actually right at the end of the next generation, which has the thirty one eighty six. So the the the most modern generation at the time in say two thousand seven, two thousand eight, two thousand nine of their GMT movement. Same which would be in the very end of the sixteen seven ten and then the start of the six digit GMT mas
Cole Pennington ters like John's. I gotta say I'm not an expert. I love the Polar Explorer. Love it. Yeah, I a think it's it's a super cool watch. And obviously I'm a GMT guy, so you have to like the Polar Explorer or any you know GMT model. But I didn't know that there were so many permutations. I mean it should be obvious, right? I know the only thing in my mind is the long stick GMT hand that's red changing over to the bright orange Fre
James Stacy ccioni style. Yeah. So 2011 they ended the forty millimeter model, which we talked about, and and they went to this new version, which informs the the brand new version that John got to see. And here they they really tried to blend a little bit of classic even 1655 elements with this the big frecconi style orange hand and the uh the way that they color the hand so that the loom kind of floats for the black dial. The thing that has always gotten me, and it persists to today, is I have a few favorites. I love the white dial, like I've mentioned. And then the other thing that I I love, and I love it on Rolex, I love it on fifty two seventy Pat X is where you have a light colored dial and genuinely dark markers. So uh with uh with a fifty two seventy, there's a black onyx markers. The level of contrast is really gorgeous and it can still be shiny. And with um with a 16570, the polar, you have the surrounds on the loom plots, it's applied markers, are like jet black, as are the hands. And for me, that's what that's what does it. If I see a white dial watch with um white metal markers, it they lose me pretty quickly. It's it's that combination. They hit it, they hit the little details
John Mayer really nicely. Yeah, absolutely right. I mean, you when you try to do like a white metal hand on a on a white dial. I mean I've seen it with some watches recently. I don't need to name them, but it's like the whole um legibility just becomes a huge issue. But on your watch, James, the the hands and the markers have more of a matte quality to them, right, than the watch that succeeded it, right
James Stacy ? It's it's not that I think that they're less polished, that it there's just m less metal. The hands are much smaller. The markers are much smaller. On this one you went in in Rolex guys, this is where you get into little arguments. Supercase maxi dial. So in this case that you got both kind of in the uh two one six five seven zero. So with those ones you had bigger kind of the proportions changed. I think they lost some of the subtlety, but it is a much sportier expression. And as their watches, like you look at the progression of Rolex has been towards a more sporty sort of thing with um with the professional models lately. And uh and I I think it fits and and I'm not a fan of the six digit generations just because of the forty two millimeter case. There's something perfect in the five digits for me. Same with a fourteen oh six oh M versus the the the a sub-C I,'d rather go M even with the aluminum bezel. I just like the size. I like the fact that you could still get drilled lugs if you go back far enough. I didn't on my Explorer 2. But there's a lot of charm in them. But Rolex has to change, and typically they do these kind of glacial changes. And I think that's kind of what we see going from the 216570 to the two two series, the the one that you saw, John. So w John, why don't you break down uh some of the I think we've given enough background and rambling of reference numbers for the one that you theoretically, and we'll get to this conversation as well, the one that you could theoretically buy at retail today, what what differentiates it from the previous? Because if you don't know Rolex
John Mayer , they look identical. Well, okay. So I mean there are there are some minute changes on the dial, um, which we can talk about in a little bit, but I think the main thing uh that struck me when looking at this watch was the narrower lugs, which have been talked talked about, the lug width on the previous model was 21. That's now increased to 22 millimeters. And what that allows is for you know a larger bracelet to occupy that space in between them. And I think that you know the this combination, this new relationship between uh the lugs, which are narrower, and the bracelet, which is wider, is a little bit more elegant, uh, in my opinion. I wouldn't say this is a watch that wears like a cuff by any means. We're not this is not an octofinissimo, but it's I think it's it's better for a 42 millimeter Rolex. That was just kind of my my gut feeling when I, you know, when I put the watch on for the first time. And then of course the other major change is the is the upgrade to the caliber 3285, which is you know, crunergy escapement, 70 hours of power reserve. I mean, I think it's an objectively bet better movement. So uh but you know, what's interesting uh with this watch is that it really, you know, it's Rolex has stayed with the 42mm size. It's the same thickness. It wears basically it works pretty much the same. The comparison has to be with the 42mm version. I think, you know, trying to take this watch and then compare it back to the watch that you wear doesn't doesn't really make sense. Yeah it's been too long and it's the
James Stacy same Rolex. Yeah yeah yeah you know for me the the the movement is interesting because there there's a a footnote that has already come up already. It's been months since this watch announced. So people have had lots of time to chat about it and Rolex heads have been buying them. People who are well connected certainly have them. If you go on the Rolex forum, they're there. And I found a lot of really interesting posts of people saying like people who have owned both of the 42mm versions, give me a give me the feeling. What's the difference? And a lot of it's like, oh man, if you've got the the 2011, just you're fine. It's great. They've made a few changes. This one wears a little bit better, but not like in a in a huge way. Uh a lot of people saying that if you like to change straps, it's nice to have twenty-two versus twenty-one millimeter, which of course makes perfect sense. But then other people will lament the the change in the hands where now it's a kind of white gold on the black dial model, uh, and it doesn't have the same sort of floating effect, which they tried to pull from the original. And then the last thing that people bring up is the fact that now the two one six five is seven, so the the one from twenty eleven, that's the only watch to have used Rolex's 3187 movement. That's right. Yeah. But one movement for one watch, which is not something Rolex does even even with let's if we stick with GMT Masters, uh 16710s had 3185s and then very briefly at the end, and these are the ones that people like to collect right now, 3186s, and same with my Explore 2, that 16570, most of them had 3185s. And then for longer than the 16710, there was a window of time, a couple years where they were making them with uh with the updated movement and and Rolex does this where they sometimes blend movements mid-generation and it makes sense. It's whatever they can produce, whatever they think is the best. Rolex will always do what they believe to be the absolute best decision for the watch, uh not for its collectibility, not for its n necessarily its uh uh consumer or like collector appeal. It's it's a it's a consumer product and they try and make it the best possible and and they're very open about that that element. You know, it's uh it it's an interesting thing to kind of compare and contrast the two because th there's so many similarities and then people who seem to have owned both have have feelings about the fact that the new one has an anti-reflective layer on the inside of the crystal that kind of makes the whole dial feel sharper. Yeah. And I I kind of understand that. You know, Rolex, uh bless their heart. They're using flat crystals. I love it. Easier to photograph, uh, you know, less damage, uh, less distortion, all that sort of stuff. You know, wh where do you guys land between say the black or the or the white in the in the new generation? For me, white all the way. Uh uh
John Mayer it's just just my preference, of course. Yeah, I I I tend to agree. I think the the white is uh has become kind of what I think of when I think of the Explorer too. U
James Stacy h you know, certainly as a modern one. And the white with the orange is awfully cool. Yeah, it really is. Even in a size that like doesn't immediately make me want to sell the one I have and and upgrade, it is very cool. And I I I like the way they look. I I I like both versions quite a bit. I ha I'm a really a sucker for that bezel because it's Rolex but it's so not at the same time. And it's usable. You know I I don't like a Daytona, I wouldn't use the tachometer bezel. You remember a lot of people were speculating that they were actually gonna put a ceramic bezel on the Yeah. And it was people, you know, taking dark images and brightening them way up and seeing um like a something of a shine and I think that ended up being maybe the the slight polished bevel they put now on the edge of the bezel, which is a really beautiful thing if you do photograph the watch or in any explorer too uh that has it. But yeah, people definitely thought there's going to be a move to ceramic. And I don't know that level of contrast, especially on the white dial. I'm not sure it would work. I'm not saying it wouldn't. You know, I'd have to do some photoshops or whatever or check somebody else's Photoshops. But what what do you guys think? Do you think that at this point you you should have a ceramic bezel on a watch of this price? Versus let's keep in mind, people who may not know, the steel bezel on these has uh an outwardly radial uh finishing, which takes a scratch and will show it forever. I love the way
Cole Pennington I mean no. I the just because you can put ceramic in in on the even the sub bezel, whatever, doesn't mean you should, to be honest. Like ceramic is I don't know. I'm I'm a bit of a purist, of course, but I don't know. Like just putting ceramic on something like this for the sake of doing that, nah. Not
John Mayer it's just not right. think a ceramic bezel is great for like a Daytona or a GMT. It's that, you know, in in combination with a sapphire crystal has saved me probably from a few doorknobs and door jams uh since I bought the watch. However, like you know, knocking this into the to a stalagmite or a stalagtite in a cave might not yield the same kind of result if you had a ceramic uh
Cole Pennington uh bezel. I hope no one's knocking into any stalag. Those are thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of years, you know.
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Cole Pennington . And here's what I will say, I wish they redid the sixteen fifty-five or the, you know, the original Explorer 2. That would be the watch for me.
James Stacy Yeah, I think that wouldn't be a very Rolexy thing to do, John. You figure to get like to do an actual reverse referential model. Sometimes you get one color. You know, on the C Dweller, you get the red now, on this you get an orange kind of old school style hand. But to do an actual throwback model doesn't feel super them. Not to my knowledge for the brand anyways. Yeah I don't think they do that. I think that's that's much more the playground
John Mayer of of uh tutor these days. But you know, Rolex, like you said, will will will call back certain elements, but they will never or I wouldn't I'm not gonna say what they'll do, but I've never known them to to completely
Cole Pennington go back and just remake something. The new the new hot thing is what will the new mill gouse look like, right? And a lot of people are saying is we're gonna see a lot of the old mill gouts so who knows on that front but if so here here's a question for both of you and especially you John actually James I mean this is really your wheelhouse too but all right, they just, you know, trimmed up the case, la da la, you know, all this stuff. All right. What now does the next iteration of this watch look like? How much more can you do? Like how much more can you actually push this design in any direction
James Stacy ? I really don't know. Yeah, I think the next one, the signifier for me, because you always have to like try and get your bearings with with a a different Rolex's progression. If the C dweller drops off of 43, let's say they they go back to forty for the C dweller, then I think I think we could see the next generation of the Explorer 2 come down in size. If they're refining the thing to feel more comfortable and and proportionally proper on wrist for a large sport watch, larger sport watch, then yeah, I'd I'd be with John, I'd be surprised. But I I also think it could be ten years. Like ten years ago, I was just getting into this. I don't like watches have changed a lot in ten years. Taste towards watches have changed. Interest in watches is, you know, it's ten X what it was. And if that's not the same in ten years, every company, including Rolex, will be making different decisions than they have been. W
John Mayer ell, I will say this. I mean, now that we've we're seeing two for ty4 two2mm references in a row, uh I think it's unlikely to see a return to 40 uh in the way that we saw a return to 36 with the Explorer One. I feel like we're we're firmly in this, you know, oversized 42 millimeter territory. Beyond that, it's hard to say. I feel like you know, polar dial is for sure here to stay along with black. I think I don't see the black going away. Yeah
Cole Pennington . In terms of design progression, speaking of change and 10 years ago and so forth, one one interesting thing to note about the polar is that it has popped. It it and I'm I'm gonna speak on behalf of the entire Hood Inky audience and say that you are uh a singular market mover, James, and you have made this watch it really, really expens I'm kidding, I'm joking
James Stacy . But it has gotten more expensive. I've definitely been I when I bought this watch, it w it cut it was like one of the cheap sport watches from Rolex and I bought it used at that point and it was not an expensive watch by anyone's measure out inside or outside of Rolex. And today they've gone way up in price like everything else has. And I think the fact that we're seeing two one six five seven zero. So again, the 2011 model, the larger the earliest of the 42 millimeter sizes, we're seeing those were unavailable for the last couple years or or difficult to get. Whereas they had kind of been the the one that was in store. You go in, there'd be a two-tone date just, there'd be a black explorer too, and they'd scoff at you when you asked for a Rolex. Now you go in and it's just there's nothing, uh, depending on where you are and and and what your connections are and that sort of thing. And honestly, I feel like that's something we've talked about about 50 times in the history of this show that it's hard to buy a Rolex. It's like it's a little bit of a cliche at this point. We get it. It's tough to buy it. List price on this is $85.50. So it's a little bit under the price of a um a sub no date. And I think for that kind of money, if you can get one, I still think it's a it's an eminently cool Rolex for people who don't feel the distinct need to have a Daytona or a sub. Or a GMT. And and I've been in that camp forever. I saw this watch when I was first getting into um watches, uh getting into mountaineering and adventuring and all that kind of stuff. And then I eventually saw a photo of one on a gray NATO and it kind of set me on a path that you know that has kind of defined my appreciation for Rolex in a big level. Yeah. I just think, you
John Mayer know, what a cool, useful watch this is, you know, with a the locally set hour and thinking I hadn't considered that. It's it costs less than a than a note 8 sub. Like to me, this is almost like a no-brainer, actually. I mean
James Stacy , if you can get it, right? Yeah, it's always everything you gotta say. Like everybody listening, if we say, Oh, but this is a good deal, like I know, there's an asterisk on it. The they're hard watches to buy. I genuinely believe it won't always be like this. It wasn't like this, you know, previously for the the course of the the brand. They were exclusive things that were available at retail with some patients. Now that patients level has kind of changed and you have we have the introduction of this whole flipping market. That that could be a topic for a different show, uh absolutely. Um I I do like to focus on this. You know, in if we look at the whole line and we assume that they're available in stores, or maybe you wait a couple months or something and you could get one for the, again, that we'll call it the core professional line. Wha what what is the explore two's place these days? Who buys this over uh aside from me, who buys this over uh a sub or Daytona or in your in both of your cases, the beloved, you know, one of the classics from the brand, the GMT master. Contrarians. Contrarians
John Mayer , yeah. It's just or it's somebody who it's I don't think this is necessarily someone's first Rolex in many cases. If it is, it's someone who is like just like really drawn to the combination of the white dial and an orange hand on a Rolex, you know? Yep. I believe it. And
James Stacy hey, again, at twenty two millimeters, a little easier to put on a NATO. It's one that I'm curious, you know, like I said right from the top. I'm I'm this is a watch I'm very curious about and I'd like to get some some wrist time with it or or whatever we describe that. So maybe maybe I can sometime in the future. I I think this is uh this remains this weirdo, charming sort of especially with the white dial, uh, because everything uh almost everything else is black and uh commonly seen in black, and and for me growing up you always saw subs or watches that were pretending to be subs, fakes, or even just other brands version of the submariner, and that saturation made the watch feel a little bit less special in terms of something that I would try and buy and save up for. I I kind of immediately wanted a sea dweller uh back when they were th this kind of cool version of a sub and not this bigger, entirely different sort of thing. And then when I found this watch and uh and kind of found its connection to a variety of of, you know, kind of big names and alpinism and this weirdo cave history. And then you, know, I back in the day, let everyone's got this story. I've got ten of them, but yeah, I should have bought a sixteen fifty five when they were five, six thousand dollars. Um, and uh and you know, not as dangerous to buy now if you're you know if you're not uh an expert on little dial changes and stuff like that. I'm glad that they're still continuing it because it is one of those things where I think they could say like fifty years, you know, we're done. And and maybe you know what? Maybe that's what it'll be in six or seven years. The explorer two will be over. So get one now. Enjoy it now we can. Very uh very stable purchase in uh in the market these days. All right. So what do you guys see? We transition to something that's both uh commercially and retail available and uh considerably less expensive, but I think might actually appeal to the same sort of person in some way. You had me at less expensive. Let's do it. All right, let's do it. So uh John following John's lovely story with the uh two two six uh five seven zero, uh Cole wrote a piece for entry level, which is a series we've got going where it it kind of covers the most inexpensive model offered by a brand. And we've done some interesting ones, a Brightling one and and and such, and I think I've got a couple of these booked to to write in the new year. I'm looking forward digging into it because it is an interesting way to think about a brand. You guys know this like when you when you cover watches you tend to cover it at the same angle that they're PR interfaces or their ads interfaces, because that's the watch that people know about. And sometimes you find a dark horse or an interesting thing, but few times would a brand put a lot of their money, their promotional money, behind their most entry-level watch because obviously their gross margin should be higher on a more expensive watch, at least conceivably, until you get into very complicated things. And with this kind of series, we're looking at entry-level watches, and it's not entry-level brands. It's it's the entry point to a brand, right? Which is kind of a fun way of looking at it. And cool, you made one for the marathon navigator. Why don't you start with um so I don't have to do all the explaining or the Canadian angle. Why you don st'artt with a little bit about Marathon? Because I'm my guess is there's some people who don't know the brand
Cole Pennington . Sure. Yeah. So you mentioned the Dark Horse watch. I think this is you can even think of this as a Dark Horse brand. It's it's a brand that does not have well, okay, now they have a minimal retail operation. They are mainly a government contract brand. So they produce watches based on government contracts for specific purposes. I did a uh the only time it's been covered on Hodinky is the thirty six millimeter M SAR, which is not the entry level. Great watch. But I think that kind of a Also a great white dial. It is, yeah. That that's a good point, actually. Great white dial. So Marathon, a bit of a, you know, a black sheep in in the whole world of collectible watches, because of this, that they don't they've never invested money into getting the word out to collectors that they produce watches. Although they do actually produce collectible watches beyond the the their core watches, they produce special editions with the Air Force insignia or let's say U.S government or for special units and so forth. So that's who who marathon is. And it is Canadian. So I don't want to I mean you are Canadian, so you should speak to the Canadian-ness of the watch. Because it's right down the street from you, really. Ye
James Stacy ah, not far at all. And uh I think they're a fascinating company. These are uh really like genuine modern tool watches. They're not super expensive. Uh that's how they get the government contracts and and that sort of thing. I've owned a TSAR and a G SAR, basically the same watch as a 41 millimeters, one with a high torque quartz and one with a uh automatic movement. And you know, when I I think when I first came across the brand, it was because they were they were doing a chronograph that had been not issued but had been contact contracted uh for the Canadian Coast Guard. So it was built to a specification for the Canadian Coast Guard and they were kind of too big for me. The J SAR? Um the C SAR. Oh C SAR, okay. Oh J SAR. I don't remember. Yeah, it could be one of. The naming thing is a little bit tough. Yeah. But they were a little bit too big for me and and but I remember realizing not only did they make other watches, but they made kind of more simple dive watches. They used tritium tube illumination. So if you haven't had that, you need to buy a watch with tritium tube if you haven't experienced it. It's uh it's kind of the best loom that there is out there. It's little tiny glass tubes filled with um uh decaying radioactive material that glows kind of permanently pretty brightly for about a decade. Yeah. The half-life is about a decade. You don't have to charge it in the in the light or anything. It just goes. No. So if you've ever had a watch from ball, that's tritium. They use a very high level of tritium and have helped that company kind of iterate new colors and brighter specs. This is more the the military level. This would be common to gun sights in some scenarios, to um luminous pips on compasses. It's a it's a tool spec thing. It's not unsafe. It it it's my understanding the type of radiation that these let go of is beta radiation and it doesn't um penetrate a case or the crystal or any of that kind of thing. So they're safe on wrist. They glow permanently. If again, if you haven't, Tracer is another one where you can get like a tritium tube illumination watch for a few hundred dollars and they make a lovely little watch. I really like these. I've owned, like I said, the kind of two versions of their 41mm dive watch. Um, but the navigation Right. It's a plastic case by any other terms. It's a nylon resin case of some sort
Cole Pennington . with a bezel that actually works. So that's interesting how we can you know, you think about a plastic case watch, there are very few with operating bezels because it takes obviously the the track for the bezel must be metal. I haven't taken one apart and I really should, but that mechanism must be metal. So it must be metal inlaid into the plastic there to to make that work. But some sort of a seat or a channel. Ye
John Mayer ah, exactly. This is a plastic case watch. Does it have the the tritium tubes for illumination in the plastic case? Yeah. Wow. That's an interesting com
Cole Pennington bination. It's a kind of a strange case. I'll explain the case first. I'll go through each element quickly. The case. The case is actually asymmetrical on the right side, the case bulges out and forms a crown guard. So you know, Rolex, it comes out like a a beak of a bird or something. This does not, the whole side of the case is circular, but is bulged out to protect the the cro
James Stacy wn. Right. So think Hamilton Pioneer, the the recent stuff from Hamilton Pioneer, or before that like a Benrist type one. Exactly. Number two, case materi
Cole Pennington al, like we talked about, is a polymer. The polymer comes in two colors. Black or desert tan khaki, sort of an earth tone brown. Dial is black with tritium indices, and it's built a mill spec. It's your Arabic numeral on the dial. The very it's the quintessential military look. And that that's kind of the watch. And it has a bezel, but there is something very interesting about the bezel, which James, being the kind of the go to GMT second time zone so forth. Guy, what do you have to say about that? This is a kind of the most interesting feature of the watch
James Stacy . Yeah. So it's a twelve hour bezel, which was common for a window of time and I link I think through the late 70s maybe and uh and then it kind of disappeared for a while. I always joke around that it's a like a CMT cheap mean time because it's uh it gives you a complication with no additional complication no additional cost. So you have 12 hours on the bezel and you basically rotate the bezel, and you can look up a guide. I'll put it in the show notes. It's really, really entry-level stuff. But you rotate the bezel to reflect the offset of your time zone from another. Put the offset. So let's say there's three hours difference between New York and LA. You'd put three at twelve, and then you simply use your regular, your single hour hand and read the hour off of the bezel. It couldn't be easier. It couldn't cost less. You still get a pip, so if you want to time a pizza or a uh a whatever, you can. Uh so you get kind of multiple uses out of it. I think they're super handy. I've modded Seiko's to have them. Makes them instantly a great travel watch that's still flies way under the radar. I can include obviously we'll put this in the show notes, but yeah there's a military specific military complication or uh uh qualification for these watches 41 millimeters that you get them on a NATO they have drilled lugs, $385, give or take. Yeah, not that expensive. Uh and they make them in date and no date. So you get that choice. And then there's they're like with a lot of marathons watches, they're sterile dial. With some of them, you get a choice whether you want it to say marathon or not, and some might even have an insignia. Um, I my T SAR had like the full engraved case back for its uh military order. Um that's a watch I kind of wish I'd kept. You know, it was probably like four or five hundred dollars at the time. And I probably wrote it and flipped it, uh, which I was doing at the time to have stuff to write about. But yeah, these are these are fascinating. I've always been kind of keyed into them. I love the idea of a field watch. They of are kind like um you could almost believe like if they needed a modern Benress, type one, type two, that sort of thing. And of course, those watches were reborn, but probably not to the extent that a CAA operator in the southeast uh would be wearing them. But you could almost believe seeing these on the wrist of someone who's using them like in a professional capacity. They have that vibe
Cole Pennington . Yeah, and and they are pilot's watches. So that's the interesting thing about it. It's it's not a dive watch. Nor a field watch. It's actually designed for pilots. Yeah, nor a field watch. It's it's a pilot's watch, but a much different form. So you can go read the story, read a little bit more about them. But I think the the main thing, the my main takeaway would be take a look at marathon. Just it's always been out, you know, on the sidelines for the main portion of watch enthusiasts, but it shouldn't be. And I think the reason is because they've never invested in marketing. But yeah, well that and for some for some
James Stacy time they were a little bit on the harder side to buy. They were, yeah. You really had to jump through hoops. Yeah. Now they have a shop. You can you can see what's in store. And also don't be don't be a complete jabroni. If you buy a navigator, get the get the button compass that slides onto the NATO. Come on. Yes, hundred percent agreed. It's a it's a little navigating compass and the the heading ring is luminous. Uh so you can charge it with a flashlight like you would for a a dive compass and it it's's twenty five dollars. Like what are you doing
Cole Pennington ? Yeah. You you literally would be a jabroni wandering around not knowing where you're going, but this will easily solve that problem. So don't be a jabroni and just do it. Even if
James Stacy you don't put it on the strap, they're so fun. I do really like these watches and uh and I I like the vibe in general and of course the same the same goes for the two two six five seven zero. Guys, thanks so much for coming on. Uh it was a treat to see you both. John, like like we said, uh it it's great to have you back as a proud dad. That's awesome. Thanks, James. Good to be back. Likewise. Always always fun talking about exploring and navigating. You gotta be able to do both, or you're you're lost for sure. Alright, if you're listening and enjoying the show, please tell a friend, leave a comment if you think we missed something, and otherwise, you know, we'll chat to you in a few days. Thanks for listening.