The Collector Perspective On The New Tudor Pelagos FXD¶
Published on Mon, 15 Nov 2021 11:00:00 +0000
Ross Povey of Tudor Collector has the deep enthusiast take on Tudor's new dive watch.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host James Stacy welcomes Ross Povey, known as Tudor Collector on Instagram and the creator of TudorCollector.com, for an in-depth discussion about the newly released Tudor Pelagos FXD. The conversation explores this significant evolution in Tudor's dive watch lineup, which was developed in collaboration with the French Navy's elite combat swimmers, the Commando Hubert.
The episode begins with both hosts reflecting on their shared history with Tudor, including memorable brand events at Baselworld in the mid-2010s. Ross explains his journey into Tudor collecting, which began on the Vintage Rolex Forum in the early 2000s when Tudor watches were relatively unknown and underappreciated. He discusses how Tudor's relaunch under the "Heritage" banner in 2010-2012 transformed the brand into a legitimate powerhouse in the watch industry.
The conversation then focuses on the Pelagos line's evolution since its 2012 debut, from the original titanium model to the beloved left-hand drive (LHD) version, before diving deep into the FXD's unique specifications. The new watch features a slimmer 12.75mm case (versus 14.3mm), fixed spring bars creating a 52mm lug-to-lug measurement, no helium escape valve, a bi-directional countdown bezel with full minute graduations, and no date complication. Both hosts emphasize that this isn't merely a marketing exercise but a genuine field-tested tool developed through years of collaboration with the Marine Nationale, featuring the MN insignia and year engraving on the caseback—a detail Ross predicts will make the MN21 versions particularly collectible due to their brief production window before the year changes to 2022.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| James Stacy | This episode of Hodiki Radio is proudly brought to you by Leica Cameras, and they are making it easier than ever to upgrade to the Leica SL2 or SL2S mirrorless camera platform. Please stay tuned for more details about a brand new trade-in program or visit BIT. Ly/slash sl two trade in to register Hey, it's me, James Stacy, and for this episode we're taking a closer look, or you could even say a deep dive, on the brand new Tudor Pelagos FXD. To get into it, I've invited a very special guest. His name is Ross Povey, and he's Tutor Collector on Instagram and the guy behind Tutor Collector.com. I wanted a true enthusiast take on this new tutor, and Ross and I have crossed paths at tutor events in the past, and he's not only a wealth of knowledge for all things tutor, but he's a genuinely lovely guy. Ross, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you on to talk tutor and the new Pelagos FXD. How you doing? I'm doing great, thank you. Yeah. And uh thanks for the invite. Oh absolut,ely. Yeah. We I you know I was racking my mind. I wanted to make sure that I I it it wasn't just a question of maybe finding someone who's who's a diver or or love tool watches. I wanted something a little bit more specific because I think the FXD and and we're gonna get into it,. it It's just you and me. We're only talking about this watch. It's gonna be a fun episode. But the FXD is this specific thing, and I kind of wanted a specific tutor perspective on it, and and and it was a pretty easy choice to uh to at least send you a DM and see if you were keen to be on the show. So you know, I I was trying to remember, I I think we met at the um at at a tutor launch at Basel World, what maybe twenty fourteen? Ye |
| Ross Povey | ah, maybe. I might have been twenty fifteen. I remember us all having to travel down to the venue on boats. Um then the big reveal was In the dark. In the dark, yeah, yeah. And it's wasn't the bump, it wasn't bumpiest ride, but it certainly wasn't a mill pond. Um and I remember the great reveal, it was the Black Bay Bronze, so the original bronze. So it probably was 15 then. Yeah, I think so, yeah. And uh the the reveal was the big brass bronze diver's helmets being lifted up into the ceiling on um off the plants and the watches being there, and uh yeah, it was a great event. She'd always do these or always used to do these great press launch events. And yeah, I've got m many happy memories from those evenings. And I remember I was sitting next to you and uh Jason that night on the table. Yeah. And we had that little battleships |
| James Stacy | game on the menus, I think, as well. Of course, I remember this. Yeah, that's a good you got a good memory for that. That's great. On the off chance that someone listening, um, maybe isn't really deep into the tutor world and doesn't know you and and tutor collector, um why don't you give a little bit of background of how you came to being kind of specifically fascinated with Tutor and then we'll get into uh you know this uh this nice new titanium dive watch |
| Ross Povey | . Y Yeesah., so my interest in watches started back in maybe the early 2000s, 2001, 2002. And like a lot of people that were really into vintage Rolex in particular, um I used to frequent the vintage Rolex Forum, the VRF, which was one of those places many years ago. It was a special place then, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. It was almost magical. And I think a lot of the knowledge that we all take for granted now. Um, a lot of that was formulated, discussed, and put into stone on the VRF. And so I used to spend probably too much time on there, and occasionally amongst the uh sea of black submariners and and chronographs, there would be these brightly coloured watches. And uh pretty quickly I became um aware of the fact that there was another brand um at part of the family uh called Tudor. And I think really for me, I just loved these watches and thought there was something a bit different. They were a bit off the beaten path that appealed to me personally. But when I started to look for information, there really was nothing, which led to Tudor Collector.com, which is my website. And then Instagram. And yeah, I mean, it's just for me uh been a pretty interesting journey for Tudor because for many, many, many years, literally very few people knew anything about them, had any interest in them. And then with the relaunch of the brand in the uh under the moniker of heritage in 2010 and then the reintroduction to the UK and US markets in around 2012 thirteen, the it it became then a huge deal in the watch industry. |
| James Stacy | Um yeah, I I remember because I I'm Canadian and grow grow up growing up in Canada we had tutor, but they were it was always an and then sort of thing. If you were in the store and you saw the Rolex case, they'd be like, oh, and also there's some tutor here, and there'd be like a big blocker, a tiger, yeah, and and a couple of princes and and like kind of an anemic collection. And I don't even to be honest, I don't even remember if that if what my memory is even reflects what the brand's collection was at the time or if that just wasn't a great retailer in Hamilton, Ontario. Uh which is possible. And then of course now they've become this like legitimate powerhouse, uh a a brand like, obviously they have this strong connection to Rolex. That that's easy to understand and we don't have to go into that. That's that's almost a given. But even just as a sole operator, as a brand on their own, with their own sort of DNA, the snowflake hands, now the the the um black bay line, and of course the Pelagos, uh at the time uh very popular with the the Heritage Chronograph, uh which is a line that has seemingly fallen out of the limelight, not not in terms of people loving it, but just in terms of the brand investing in in in that line. But with the Pelagos, it it's sort of an interesting thing because yeah, you know, that it was launched in 2012 uh with a an off-the-shelf caliber, but it was kind of the Rolex World's first big titanium dive watch, had this incredible bracelet, and and it had no sense of uh aside from perhaps just that our hand, it had no sense of the fact that it had watches behind it that it had to pay tribute to. It's not how people make dive watches now. If you made a dive watch today, you'd have to talk the whole story. Like they did with the FXD. You'd have to tell the whole backstory because the vintage connection that the historical thing's so big. You know, it has the legibility of a stop sign. And I I've I've been a fan of it since the moment it came out. And then in 2015, uh we we moved to the uh MT series movements and a blue dial a couple years later the LHD and and then now kind of the first I would say considerable turn in the Pelagos' kind of lineage with this sort of um derivation towards the uh uh recreating a modern expression of the MN. What do you have have you owned any of these? Uh do you have any special uh love for any stage in that timeline? Interestingly, the P |
| Ross Povey | elagos was the watch that most faithfully, even though it's not a heritage watch, most faithfully reproduced the old snowflakes because the Black Bay is very distinct in that it has that um like fusion of round hour markers with snowflake hands. And the pelagos came along and it was something very different um from anything else out there. As you say, titanium case, gas escape bulb. And it really was an actual proper tool watch. There's nothing about the Pelagos that isn't very high-end, very professional, is, you know, in the literal sense. The bracelet is amazing. Yeah, it's next level. It is. The case, it its capability to go um to the depths that it can, the legibility of the dial, the ceramic insurer, the whole thing is like a knockout watch. But I've always felt it's kind of been the forgotten, forgotten member of the family behind Black Bay, because Black Bay, you know, we we talked very briefly then about the heritage Chronos, great watchers. I absolutely love both of them, the Lou and the home plate, the Monte Carlo and home play. But then really um Pelagos was just kind of there as the menacing the menacing watch in the corner kind of thing and and it absolutely fabulous I love the LHD me too yeah interestingly for me the LHD was a a standout watch because it was the first time that the Wilsdorf family had commercially produced individually numbered watches. There was always a bit of confusion at the beginning about LHD. Is it going to be limited to a thousand pieces, a hundred pieces, as because it was numbered? Yeah. And I think people were like, you know, always is the, you know, that there were rumors on, you know, on online um around is this going to be a limited edition? It was never pitched or marketed as such, but each watch is unique. And that was a big step. You know, that's not happened before. And then Tudor have played around with that with the chrono dark. Um and they are they are limited to the number of players for the all blacks. Um but the Pelagos for me had a real collector spirit and that LHD was when it really came to the fore with the, you know, the aged loom, the the red line. Yeah. The interesting play on the past with the left-handed element to the case and the case back numbers. So for me, that was a watch that really reson |
| James Stacy | ated with me. And uh I've always loved it. Yeah, no, I would agree. And and you know, you touched on the bracelet and uh if you've never had the the fun of playing with a pelagose having it on your wrist or whatever, there's another level of fun and and which is showing somebody who doesn't really know that much about watches just how easy the bracelet just does its thing without bothering you. I a couple years ago I shot a series of photos with a diver with the Pelagos and and the diver was not a watch person. They were picked because they're a good diver and handsome. And uh and so you know this person's wearing a a five millimeter wetsuit glove, a big wetsuit glove. And I handed them the watch on the bracelet. And they go, like, you know, I'm you're gonna have to put it on on something like my computer's on, like a big rubber strap. And I said, Nah, just literally put it on and slam the clasp closed, and it just extends and you could see them be like, Whoa, what? What is this? This is next level. And you and then as they move their wrist, you can see the little spring indicator showing you how much tension is left in the spring. And yeah, man, I I find that stuff so nerdy. That that ignites like a little a thing in me that that that like the five-year-old that loved anything that glowed in the dark, you know, and anything that was cool in Lego, like all that kind of stuff. It it attaches to that little piece of my my like youthful brain that's still there and that watch does it between the the incredible loom the the the that bracelet and then you know a few year a few years even before that shoot I was diving in Mexico with a pelagos and uh to try and give myself a a different mental space for the write up, I didn't bring the bracelet. I put it on the rubber. It was one just after the blue came out. So this would have been twenty sixteen, I guess. Yeah, yeah. And I put it on the rubber, and it takes you about a minute to get used to the rubber and then it's a it's like a perfect vacation watch. It's like a different whole different watch just by changing the strap. Yeah. Yeah. For me this is the peak of a modern dive watch. I I know obviously the submariner is something that people will always attach to. Of course. But I feel like if you really wanted to be a gr a weekend diver and love the watch it, you have this as a backup to your computer. Yeah. I feel like you'd have the the Pelagos in your list. |
| Ross Povey | For me it perfectly illustrates how sometimes tutor underestimate um or understate what it is that the watch can do. So, you know, that bracelet, they don't jump up and down about it really, but when you actually play with it, and I'm not a diver, so I don't need a 500 meter depth raid watch with a gas escape valve. Um I'm not sure many people do. No, but the fact that it can do that and that technology behind it, that you know if you've got that watch and you're wearing it and you're enjoying it and you you know it does that. That's what matters. And that for me has always been a large part of the attraction to Tudor. It doesn't scream off your wrist. It is the kind of thinking person's watch. And so that always appealed to me, uh, the understated elegance and |
| James Stacy | yet the seriousness of the brand. Yeah, and I mean they even to today, even in a world where watches are way more expensive than they were in the days where you were first experiencing, you know, TRF, the tutor stuff still represents a value. Yeah. Um, it sits where it should in the market. You know, it's it's easily comparable to the quality from great brands, huge legacy brands, Omega, uh, Rolex and the rest. And and they still offer this great value. They still offer um, you know, don't get me wrong, these are expensive watches. The you know the several thousand dollars for a watch. So it's up to you if if that's how if that's how you want to spend your money. There's good value in this. If if you're not into watches, I'm not sure why you'd be listening. Yeah. Most famous chip. But yeah, I I like that Tutors kind of continue down that path. They're still making um interesting watches that feel distinct from Rolex. Yeah. You know, let's let's get into the let's get into the FXD because I think obviously this is the this is the big thing. We've given some background on both on Tutor and Pel and the Pelagos in case, you know, somebody listening hadn't gotten there yet. Wh where where did you land on the FXD? You know, this is something that I'm sure you saw the leaks. I got tons of emails about the leaks and just had to say like, yeah, I don't know. Like I had I no official word yet and if I had official word it'd probably be embargoed so yeah for |
| Ross Povey | me it's kind of the perfect release for Tudor I'm very passionate about the vintage watches and particularly so if we were going to go down granular levels tutor then vintage tutor then military issued vintage tutor so to me the history of the brand and that relationship with the various navies of the world is kind of what really excites me about the watches. So I've got to be honest that this is for me pretty much perfect in terms of how number one, how it's been communicated. And number two, the actual finished product. And number three, the development of the watch that we now know has been developed with the Marine National, with the French Navy. And that to me is absolutely pitch perfect for Tudor because I've said this over the last couple of days like let's be really clear about this this is not a marketing gimmick this is not a piece of um you know fun memorabilia with the marine nationale crest on the back although it was all of those things arguably in one way. But actually, what this is, is a field-tested in-field use military watch that has been many, many years in the making. And for me that's |
| James Stacy | very exciting. And I think that's a good way to uh kind of highlight what this watch is because we checked with Tudor and in the most strict terms, this is not an issued watch. It's not issued by the Marine National uh or any other kind of derivation therein. What it is is a watch made in conjunction with feedback and field testing with their combat swimmers, the Commando Hubert. And the watch has been approved by the MN, so they can use it and uh it's in the field being used by the team for both navigational concerns and of course just like general timing. Yeah. Tudor's relationship with the MN |
| Ross Povey | dates back to the 1950s, I think 1956. And that research and development and collaboration between the brand and the French Navy has been key for many, many years. A lot of the developments that we see with the watches, you know, the original watches that were delivered were 100 meter depth rated. Then they became 200 meters because the cases were improved. You know, then from the small crown watches, the big crown watches were developed in the late 50s. Then through the 50s, the cases changed. So there's the introduction of the crown guards in the late 50s and early 60s. And then in the late 60s, the development of the snowflake hands, which again was a response to the French Navy divers request for hands that were more legible. You know, it's not a lot of point having a watch on your wrist in those circumstances that you can't see. And so then we saw the snowflake. And so this has all been initially research done by scholars and people uh that research vintage watches. I would say that I was part of that group that did that work. And then over the last maybe 10 years, the brand has been a lot more open in terms of sharing information from its past and celebrating that through the Black Bay um and the Black Bay 58 Navy blue. But now actually we're seeing that the brand really is a genuine collaborator, research, and development partner with the French Navy, and it has resulted in this new timepiece that is really being used. I mean, some of those leaks were a result of watches that are a little bit different to the production model and that have found their way into the hands of dealers and therefore onto Instagram and we've seen the watches. And what we do know is that yeah you know this isn't just some um you know collector or watch community folklore. This is actual real in the field military dive watch stuff. So honestly, I don't think it can be much cooler than that. And I make no ap |
| James Stacy | ologies for being incredibly enthusiastic about this, you know. And yeah, no, that's what I wanted. I wanted the kind of perspective from somebody that's really deep into tutor because I I think this is a very niche product. And I think if you simply look at it as like they're extending the Pelagos line, is is this supposed to sit right alongside the the standard model as like a watch that anyone might walk into the store and casually buy? I don't think it's a very casual watch in many ways. It it has it couldn't be, right? It it was made with this impetus for the comm.ando Uber For those who didn't read the piece, and Rass wrote a lovely piece for Revolution, I covered it with Hodinky, so we'll put both of those in the show notes in case you missed it. But this is uh still a 42 millimeter pelagos, but um they've uh removed the HEV. It's of no use to uh the Marine National. So now we've dropped the case thickness down to about twelve point seven five millimeters instead of about fourteen point three. It's now fifty two millimeters lug to lug because you have uh channel lugs. That's the term that I would know know. I don't if that's a widely adopted term. It's essentially fixed spring bars. Yeah. But they're not fixed like the welded ones on on old military dive watches. They're actually at the end of the lug progression. And they kind of work like almost like a seat like how you would feed a seatbelt. Yeah, it's a monocase, isn't it? So that's I call them strap bars are. Yeah, or or the auto autodromal group B does the same thing. 52 millimeters lug to lug, so it's a two millimeters longer lug to lug than the standard Pelagos. Uh no bracelet option because of the trick channel lugs. Uh, but you do get a um uh a really I was I was surprised by how much I liked it, a really nice fabric strap with a um hook and loop. I don't you probably can't say a v velcro, or they're very careful not to, as I believe that's a brand name, but a hook and loop fastening system and then a matched uh blue rubber strap with their c ad copy just says or they're uh you know their PR copy says a D-ring, and I was expecting like an actual like D-ring from a decent backpack. It's this like really beautiful brushed two-channel you know titanium buckle. Stunning finish, isn't it yeah? They've they've changed up uh the dial a little bit. This is now a no date, so it's an MT5602. Versus the all the other pelagosas have a date at three. Uh you're still getting a COSC fixed, you know, automatic movement. The the kind of the other big story is in the bezel where the bezel is now slightly wider. So we're looking at a different kind of proportion than a standard pelagose. Yeah. They've in ch they've increased the grip around the bezel, which is one of my things that looks incredible in photographs if you light it correctly. It's like a deep toothy grip. Yeah. Uh great for gloves, cold fingers. That that was kind of the concern with this one. You still have the big blocky luminous elements, the markers in the hands, but they're no longer um kind of wrapped around or a set into a Riot, there's no Riot as the the tolerance is the dial is much closer to the crystal on this watch than on a normal Peligos. If you turn them sideways, it reminds me of like if you've ever had a like a Zin U1. Yes. Yeah I know what you mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. And so they've made a bunch of changes to the Pelagos format, but it still looks a lot like a blue Pelagos. You do have to kind of give it a moment. And the big change, I guess, in visual is a fully gradiated bezel. Uh so you have minute markers all the way around. And now the bezel for underwater navigation purposes is bi-directional. And uh and and so that actually aids in a very specific way that the Commando Iber do two man sub aquatic navigation without ever coming up. And that I included the text from the tutor press release in my story because it is kind of complicated. And in some ways, I was trying to draw little stick men so you could understand what each but it takes two people to navigate kind of flawlessly underwater. And to do that, it's very helpful, especially if you're going some distance, to have a watch um where you can very quickly um keep making new markings. And that's the idea behind having a uh uh a bidirectional bezel, whereas kind of the entire history of dive watches. The first ones were tension fit, so they just kind of stayed wherever they were, but as soon as people started fitting springs, yeah, I want to say late 50s, early sixties to dive watches. The werey unidirectional so that you couldn't inadvertently bump the scale and not know how long you had been underwater. 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| Ross Povey | I've seen a lot of comments on social media and I've been asked this question a few times today, interestingly, because uh the watch came out yesterday. Um so yeah the two things are the the the things the standout things for me are three actually so you're right the bezel's oversized slightly compared to a normal Pelagoths. And it has a very, very grippy edge that's much more textured again for the, as you just said, for the globs and the cold fingers. The two differences are that the the re the the the 60 minute graduation goes the other way. Oh it's a countdown, yeah, correct. On the FX state it's a countdown bezel that's bi-directional. So what that means is is that this watch wouldn't meet the ISO standard for a dive watch. And lot a of people have been like, but this is, you know, what's the point of having this watch with a bi-directional bezel that doesn't fit ISO or the ISO standard? And I think the point is, is that this watch has been specifically developed for the underwater navigation by stages, I think is the uh is the technical term for it. So yeah, you're right. So the divers swim at very shallow depths of a few meters, and they have the lifeline that connects them. Before they get in the water, they set the course and they know they need to go at however many degrees um east for seven minutes. Us using a compass, yeah. Using the compass. So one of the divers has compass and is swimming perfectly on that course the other diver who they have a lifeline between them the other diver has to time it to the absolute minute or and second of that swim. If they don't time it correctly, they're not going to be at the correct destination. They're going to surface in the wrong place. And we, you know, that's not going to end well for anybody. Yeah. So the the the the the change to the watch is very much geared towards those specs that the commando whoar divers needed and again that to me is it's not they've not just decided to make the bezel more detailed, do it the other way around and make it go both ways just for a for something to do to make it different in the market. They've done that because that's what the French Navy combat swimmers need to make the watch fit for purpose for their for their combat missions. Right. So for me, you know, I'm in in no way do I want to, you know, I'm I'm not glorifying warfare in in my excitement for this watch, but what I am saying is that this is an important watch for the brand and for collectors and enthusiasts of military tutors. This is the pinnacle of the brand's relationship with a with a navy. I've written over the years fairly extensively about their partnerships with the South African Navy is one that I've done a lot of work on. But also, you know, the Argentinian uh Navy, the the Italian um combat swimmers, the Chilean uh Navy. There have been lots and lots of different navies that they've worked with over the years because they're very robust watches. They're a little bit under the radar and always were, um, as opposed to Rolex watches. But they were a watch that did the job that needed to be done at a good price point. Hans Wilsdorf was always really clear when he set the brand up that it was all the hallmarks of Rolex, but a more affordable price point. And I think that's why they've always been so popular with different navies around the world, because |
| James Stacy | you know they could afford to buy them. Yeah, and with the with the kind of reborn connection with the MN, which was announced last year, and now we've seen it come to fruition with this watch, it it is a really good marketing exercise because it's cool. We're talking about it. These things are really interesting. The idea that this is a watch that is actually being used, it's not just an insignia on on the dial that's kind of cool and maybe sold to a few operators from the group. It's something more intentional than that. And and you know, my guess is they had to go through it, you know, stages of red tape, hoops and such, bureaucracy to make this happen. When whenever anything new comes out, especially from the house of Rolex, people kind of fly off the handle with their first gut gut reaction. And I'm here for it. Sometimes it's really funny, sometimes it's kind of crazy, but it's fine. This is this is what loving something that kind of is just a a thing. This is how it manifests itself. Yeah. And a lot of people seem worried that that like this was gonna be the new Palagos, you know, period. But they're not changing the other three models. They're gonna continue making the black, the blue, the LHD. This is something on the side. Yeah. It's a little bit less expensive because you don't have the bracelet. Yeah. And and the additional water resistance and the complexity of the HEV and the rest. It it's really interesting to go through the comments on you know, I was I was scanning through the comments on the story I put up last night because one comment will be like I don't like this that you know it's too big or you know the Marine National doesn't mean anything to me or whatever and and then the next comment will be could be literally the uh like the I couldn't have written a per a more opposite opinion, right? Like the next one is this is amazing. I can't wait to get one. The you know, I I I've called every A D around. I'm so excited. I'm glad it's not limited. Um all these sorts of things. So I think that they've made something interesting in that it has there's some controversy to the way that it's it's hitting people. But I think the stakes are kind of low because you're not losing the palagos that's already there. I just think people might have been hoping to see the current Pagelos um evolve into more of like a Pelagos fifty eight or something like that. And I I'm on record saying that I would love a slightly smaller Pelagos or I would r love uh Pelagos GMT. This is all old hat if you if you listen to uh other things I say into microphones. How do you think this interfaces with the with the whole lineup outside of the MN stuff, more just from a tutor sort of standpoint? I |
| Ross Povey | f you want a thirty-nine millimeter dive watch this black bay fifty eight and now that's available in bronze steel in different colours. Silver. In terms of how it fits into Pelagos, I think it's an interesting addition. It's not as thick. It's a totally different looking watch. It has the hallmarks of Pelagos, but it's non-date, it's got a different bezel, it's not as thick. For me, I have seen a lot of these comments of oh, you know, it's great, but really 42 millimeters, what you're thinking, kind of like as if Tudors missed the boat on the size of it. I think my thought on that is that look, I mean, this is not just a new dial colour or a new bezel colour. This is an entirely new case. It's a fixed strap bar watch that has been completely designed from scratch. So if we are, you know, excited that it's an MN designed watch or a collaboration watch with the Marine Nationale, clearly the 42 mil is what the Marine Nationale wanted. If the MN had said can you make it a bit smaller, then that wouldn't have been a problem because it's been made from scratch. So for me, if we're gonna be able to buy a watch that meets all the criteria the French combat swimmer needs and and and you're buying that watch for whatever reason because you love military watches, because you love the brand, because you love the story behind it. If you're gonna buy into it, then my view is go the whole hog and get exactly what they want. And and so for me, the size is not really a big hurdle because that's the size that |
| James Stacy | the spec needed it to be. I'm also curious because uh you've had a chance to see it in person, as have I. I had, you know, maybe 45 minutes with it yesterday to shoot the photos and uh to try it on my wrist. And you know, uh the 42 millimeters to me is like the Pelagos has always been 42 millimeters, so this would have been the easy choice. It the extension of the lug to lug is concerning on paper. I found at least for my wrist, I have a kind of a uh skinny, you know, seven-inch wrist, bony. But because of where the profile, you know, a lug bar uh a a a spring bar has to sit in the middle of the lugs, so the strap has to lift up off of the back of the case. Whereas this it's very much like a like a channel and it's low set. And I actually found that for a watch that you know normally I wouldn't I wouldn't stomach a 52 millimeter lug to lug on a dive watch. It's just it's kind of long. Yeah. But I found especially with the fabric strap, it sits so evenly against your wrist and it kind of finds a little home and it just stays there. I found it surprisingly comfortable for a watch of that length because normally that would be I like more like forty six to forty eight millimeters lug to lug, pretty common, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I also have to imagine that as much as people might might not want to hear the MN thing as like an excuse for what's now being offered as a commercial product, they're probably wearing this over a wetsuit, at which point your wrist gets quite a bit bigger. I mean a five mil wetsuit adds the better part of a centimeter to to your wrist if you think about it that way. And I I think um I think it's it it probably would wear really nicely on additional gear and not get lost among other things that are on their kit. Yeah, I agree. So I wear quite a lot of vintage 34mm oysters. Yeah, so I mean of 43mm lug to lug, something like that, |
| Ross Povey | really small. So so yeah, I I have a thin wrist. So I 34, 36 is a watch size that I wear a lot. But what I what I feel is is that for me personally, it's the height as well that makes a difference. So the original, so we've seen Tudor do this before. The original Blackbay chronograph was a very thick watch for me. And I was delighted when they introduced it in steel and gold and then they've they did uh the black bay chrono dark and then the panda and reverse panda this year. For me that worked really well because it wasn't so much the case size that was a problem for me with the original Black Bay Chrono, it was the height. And just it's a small reduction |
| James Stacy | , but it made a difference. Yeah, the propor |
| Ross Povey | tions are are pretty sweet on that new one. It wears differently. Yeah, exactly. And but it's the same size as the first series, but it's shallower. And I think for me, the Pelagos FXD worked really well because for and this is a personal thing, for me, it's more about the height than the width of a watch that I've determines its comfort for me. And so on the fabric strap, it really sat well on the wrist for me. I like yourself, I had a very short amount of time to um to wear it. Um it really was just a try on and a couple of picks. But sure it it fits well for me and I think that the reduction in height from the standard Pelagos does make |
| James Stacy | a big difference on the wrist. It's it's super noticeable the the millimeter and a half, give or take, a little over one and a half millimeters. It's a big difference. And like I said, it it also just drags the dial up right against the b base of the crystal. Uh the other thing I you know with the lug to lug thing, 'cause it it is a it's a major thing in the comments, it's it's something that I write about in a lot of stories is the concern for a lug to lug. A shorter lug to lug usually means that the strap will interface with your wrist in a in a more stable sort of way, rather than having one side of the strap essentially going straight down so it's easiest. With the channel lugs that doesn't happen. So I I would just encourage people I I understand if you see a new watch and you go like well why is it this size and that but just swing by a tutor boutique and check it out. Put it on your wrist when you can. I I think you might be surprised it's a big watch, but it's among the most comfortable, big like long watches I've ever had on my wrist. Fabric strap, it just is it's like and it's light, the the other thing is as well, the titightanium ey nine grams on the on the rubber. I I showed up to I showed up to my Rolex meeting with my own calipers. I love that my own gray NATO and a kitchen scale. You are my hero. Um I got some looks, but hey, I' Im'm not in it for them. I'm in it for |
| Ross Povey | uh I'm in it for the readers. Yeah, but you know, i it is it it it it does wear um comfortably, I for me personally. And the titanium there's not a lot of it's not a heavy, bulky watch that's sliding. Yeah, it doesn't flop around at all. No, not at all. Not at all. Yeah. Go and check one out. I mean the one thing we haven't talked about uh is the case back engraving. Yeah, let's do that for sure. What a great move to engrave them with the year. And I think knowing collectors like I do, the MN21 uh is going to be the one, isn't it? Because these watches came out um with six, seven weeks of the year left. Oh, I hadn't even thought of that. So from January they'll be engraved MN22. And then the following January MN23. So it's a short run of a few weeks for the MN21 |
| James Stacy | s. And that two digit, the two digit year, that ties right back to the original uh issued watches that that people are so crazy about collecting and buying the books about and reading Tutor Collector. Yeah, I mean they're the they' |
| Ross Povey | re from the French Navy, they're the most famous examples. They started in 74 and finished in the early 80s. And yeah, I mean they have beautiful watches. Yeah, such great watches. The watches before that, I mean, they've been issuing them from 56. So there are from 1956 to 1973 watches that aren't engraved and that's a much more difficult um task to ascertain whether or not they were uh issued to the Marine Nationale, but certainly from 74. Uh, yeah, they had the M for Marine and for Nationale, and then the short form yeah, uh quick geek fact is that in 1975 they had the full year so they're engraved MN1975 but every other year is the short form and so yeah the brand have picked that up with the new FXD if I was a betting man, uh, which I'm not but, if I was, I think MN21 is going to be the one in years to come. Um, you know, we've seen this once before. Do you remember when they introduced the Black Bay Black and they did that in mid-year launch in November, uh, December time. And then they introduced the in-house movement the following March. So that original ETA movement, Black Bay, was made for uh, I don't know, four or five months. So short period of time. Yeah, very short period of time. So collectors now are already referring that to the Mark One Black Bay Black. Um, collectors have to give these different iterations a nickname. That's how that's how you have fun with it, yeah. Exactly, yeah. And I think um in terms of Pelagos FX the MN twenty one is gonna be the rarest and most sought after uh you know, |
| James Stacy | that true Mark One first series launch of the watch. And so I I'm interested in wondering as you see it, you've got the three Pelagos already there. They're already incredible dive watches. If you want the vintage thing, you can go to Black Bay. We all know those are incredible. I you know the fifty eight blue is just one of my most favorite watches new watches available today. It's amazing on wrist. It looks incredible. I think it's gonna look great in twenty years. It's it's it it's a buy it and wear it and just enjoy it sort of thing. Yeah absolutely who's the who's the buyer for the new M N twenty one? Is it is it the the the normal, you know, dive watch nerd or is it I think it might be something a bit more specific, right? It might be, yeah. I mean, I think |
| Ross Povey | it appeals to anybody that likes good dive watches, certainly. It looks good. I think it'll appeal definitely to vintage fans because it's a no-date blue snowflake that they can wear every day. I mean the no-date thing is almost enough for some guys, right? It is enough for some guys. And if you look at the value now of vintage blue no-date snowflakes they've overtaken Matt Dial 5513s in many cases uh so yeah I think it'll appeal to the no-date blue snowflake fan and anybody that's got even a passing interest in military tutors is going to look at this and be like you know what I'm gonna buy into this it's it's contextually in the world of course we can sometimes forget context of what these watches cost, but in if we stick within the microcosm of luxury watches, it's not an expensive watch, it's a it's a good value watch. And I think most people who love vintage tutors will or vintage military tutors will want to buy one because it's a no-brainer |
| James Stacy | in my mind. For a modern tutor to have a military connection, the only other ones I can think of are kind of special editions made for specific outfits. Yeah. Usually m M O D stuff and and and otherwise I think I've maybe seen one or two that even Pelagoses. Yeah. Yeah. Pelagi uh if you prefer. Yeah. Um that have you know uh an insignia on the dial but are otherwise just the standard commercial watch. Yeah. This is something where it's not that a a an outfit came to tutor and said, we like that watch. Let's make a commemorative edition so we can feel happy about, you know, our our team and stuff and put our put our insignia on it. It's we need a watch. Let's start with this base and make something for us. And then there there probably would have been a world, maybe not now because of what the watch industry is, but there's probably could have been a world in which this wasn't a commercial product. This was something made for the Navy and it stayed with the Navy, right? Yeah, |
| Ross Povey | I I I totally agree with you. I mean, it is a niche product on one hand. This has been very specifically developed to be used by a specific branch of one nation's navy. Any navy can just buy a watch off the shelf and use it. And it's interesting, you know, we know that the Pelagos, the original Pelagos was used by the Israeli Defense Force. In modern day warfare, they use that. They don't do anything special to them. They just wear the watches as they are. If you collect Tudor watches, then there are three levels. There are those watches that are special editions that we've seen appearing with some brand names on the dial. Um right. And they're interesting to collectors because they're small runs. There's the Hodinki edition, Black Bay fifty eight, that's made its way onto social media. Yeah, I think I've seen one for Google as well. Yeah. I think there' |
| James Stacy | s a handful there's Ed Sheeran did one for his tour. Right, okay, of course |
| Ross Povey | . Oh, he had a and he had a cool little like uh logo, so it wasn't just a word. Yeah, no, it was divided, I think was the name of his tour, and all his tour personnel were given one. So they're interesting because they're rare and they're unusual. Then the next level for collectors, and then we're starting to get into military collectors are, and I've covered the a couple of them I've been given um, you know, access to them on Tudor Collector, whereby a a a military branch of commandos or special protection officers have been allowed to create a watch short run 50, 60, 70 pieces. Some of them are individually numbered. Most of them or all of them have the insignia on the dial. They're interesting as well because military watch collectors and Tudor military fans think, well, this is a rare, interesting Tudor that's been customized for a military outfit. And it probably maybe hasn't been worn in the field, but it's certainly been bought by you know that unit. And then there's FXD, which is entirely from the ground up, pretty much, developed for that military unit. And I think the fact that there is such a big market for military watches, and you know, there's entire forums, not just subsections of forums, but actual forums dedicated to military watches. That I think you're right. In in another world, maybe this would have just been a professional tool that they ordered, but I think there's a huge commercial relevance to it |
| James Stacy | now for for those reasons. Yeah, you know, I I think that basically covers the basics of the FXD. It's it's uh it's an interesting thing. It is this very specific thing that has to sit in a lineup of kind of this wonderful do-it-all generalist. Yes. The Pelagos could be a one watch for somebody who even likes watches, loves watches. You could buy that one watch and then be like, I I don't really need much else, right? Yeah. It just works. And then now they've made something kind of special and interesting and and and I think there's a lot of context that has to be established for people who maybe don't know Tudor as deeply as you do, which is kind of the point of this show. And uh I I I'm keen uh to know as to wrap up the show, if I very quietly grabbed uh Hodinki expense card and said, look, Ross, you and I are gonna go to a tutor boutique and do some damage here. Oh yeah. But it's got to be Pelagos. One of the four. Which one are you, which one are you putting on the card? Definitely FXD. Definitely FXD. Definitely FXD, yeah. Man, I've been thinking about this question for 24 hours. Cause I even wrote it. That's how I ended my story. I said, like, if you asked me three times a day what pelagos I would want, I'd give you three different answers. It's really I would it would be LHD blue or the FXD. I think I might still lean for blue because I like that. I it's so seldom that I like a bracelet. I wear NATO's on almost every bracelet. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I And I think I think would have to go with the blue one, but it's not an easy decision. I love the no date. I love the thinner case. Yeah. I mean the lug to lug length on a NATO doesn't make that much difference to me with this watch. Uh so that's a tough one. I also like that you know you save it's thirty nine hundred dollars instead of about forty six hundred bucks for for the other. So it it doesn't hurt to save save a few dollars either. No, I mean it's always going to be FXD for me |
| Ross Povey | because of my because of every every all of the everything we've talked about. Yeah, but it's be because of the the the history of it for me. This is kind of the moment that if you had asked me in 2004, 2005, could this ever be a possibility that this would happen? I'd have been there. And I don't think so, because the these brands don't do that kind of thing, do they |
| James Stacy | ? I mean if you'd asked me in 2017, yeah. I would have said like I would have said, I don't think any brand wants to navigate that red tape now? No, I mean it |
| Ross Povey | I can't imagine how bureaucratic and what a headache potentially the development of this watch was. And look, you know, I mean, how many people that buy dive watches actually use them? So that you know any comments around uh they don't doesn't meet the ISO standard |
| James Stacy | for a safe dive watch. It's a deep uh misunderstanding of even what ISO is for. It's it's a suggestion for people who don't know how to make a dive watch. Well, of the boxes you should check, that's why there's a standard. Yeah, exactly what I'm sayor knows what they're up against. They make amazing dive watches. They don't need a ref they don't need a spec. It's |
| Ross Povey | what the watch stands for. As well as being incredibly cool, blue no-date snowflake for me is like one of my favorite aesthetic designs in watchmaking. It doesn't, you know, it's if I was gonna buy if I could only own one dive watch, it would be a blue no-date snowflake. So it ticks that box for me. But for me, it's so much more around the history. And I've you know dedicated many years of my life researching this and and and learning about this um relationship that the brand had with different neighbors that to me this is the kind of this is like the the |
| James Stacy | the end game watch almost well I I think that's a an end game and an a a nice enough place to end the show as well. Russ, it's been an absolute treat having you on. I I implore everybody to go check out Tutor Collector.com, get some more context on the background. I'm really pumped about this watch. I'm excited to see Tudor doing some stuff that's kind of weird and exciting and and again, not just a different dial color, not just a different uh kind of iteration of something they already have. We we we kind of got something new with the FXD and as as a huge fan of the Pelagos, a a somewhat kind of frozen fan. I can never decide which one to buy. Someday I will. Uh maybe it's that GMT, that mythical unicorn of a watch. Dude, this has been great. I I thank you so much for coming on. No, thank you for the inv |
| Ross Povey | ite. I never need asking more than once to come and talk about Tudor. So uh the real honor for me for just to sit here, forget everything going on in life and just talk about uh Tudors has been a real treat. So thanks, James. And maybe uh maybe I' |
| James Stacy | ll come back and talk about the next release next year. I would love that. And maybe someday we'll return to a place where we end up at the same weird warehouse in Boston. Let's hope it's to do with watches and nothing more unto I didn't even consider yeah that could be quite never |
| Ross Povey | quite scary. Uh I'll be I'm glad we'll we'll bring Jason with us again, |
| James Stacy | so we should Yeah, a little bit of safety for sure. All right, man. Thanks a bunch and uh it's been a treat. Cheers |