Into The Heart Of Leica: Cameras, Watches, and More¶
Published on Mon, 8 Nov 2021 11:00:00 +0000
From Germany with love (and cameras).
Synopsis¶
This special episode of Hodinkee Radio features host James Stacey and Hodinkee's luxury watch category manager Miles Kusaba traveling to Leica's headquarters in Wetzlar, Germany for the Leica Oscar Barnack Awards press conference. The episode explores the deep connections between photography, watches, and craftsmanship through two extensive conversations.
The first interview features Mark, a fashion and beauty photographer who discusses his philosophy on photography as journalism, emphasizing the importance of capturing authentic human moments using Leica's discreet M cameras. He explores fascinating concepts about human vision and memory, noting that "everything we see goes to memory first before it is processed as an image," and shares the profound Louise Glück quote: "We look at the world once in childhood, the rest is memory." Mark discusses the balance between traditional handcrafted lenses and modern digital technology, explaining how older lens designs can create images more consistent with human vision by incorporating natural falloff that mirrors our peripheral vision.
The second conversation with Dr. Andreas Kaufmann, Chairman of Leica's Supervisory Board, reveals his unexpected path to leading the iconic camera company through his family's investment in 2004. Dr. Kaufmann discusses Leica's design philosophy rooted in German technology design principles, the importance of printed photographs versus digital images, and the brand's evolution into new territories including smartphones and watches. He emphasizes that Leica sees smartphones as "the consumer camera of the day" and views them as an entry point to high-end photography. The discussion also covers his personal watch collection and the reasoning behind Leica's venture into watchmaking, focusing on functional innovation like alarm complications and intuitive date-setting mechanisms.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| James Stacey | This episode of Hodinki Radio is proudly brought to you by Grand Seiko and the stunning SBGY zero zero seven Oma Wattari from the Elegance Collection. Please stay tuned for more information later in the show or visit Grand Dash Seiko.us.com for more. Hey, it's me, James Stacey with a special laika themed episode of Hodinki Radio featuring two chats that were recorded last week at Leica's headquarters in Wetzler, Germany, while myself and Hodinki's category manager for luxury watches, Miles Kusaba, were attending a press conference surrounding an award show called the Leica Oscar Barneck Awards. I've been shooting Leica for a few years and their cameras have become crucial to the way that I like to photograph watches and do my work, but the brand is a lot more than just a red dot on an old school looking camera. Much like Ferrari in Modena or Rolex in Geneva, Leica has a long and incredibly influential past in Vetzlar. The brand is known all over the world for its cutting edge and uncompromising production of optics, but this trip would show me the human and craftsman element native to their home in the hills north of Frankfurt. We here at Hodinki are of course big fans of Leica. We've produced a limited edition camera with them and we carry some of their models in the Hoodenkey shop. It's unquestionably great product, but we also see it as a link for many other passions within the space, be it watches, architecture, cars, fine art or or more. Dr. Andreas Kaufman. And so for this episode, you get to come with me to Germany and talk about cameras and watches and whatever we can find in between. This has been a a a crazy thing to return to the world of kind of for me, to return to the world of travel and press travel and the rest of it. And of course coming back to Germany, a a lovely country, and it's a pleasure to be here. But this is absolutely my first experience really understanding Miles, can you give a little bit of background on where we are? Uh we can show a picture, that's easy, but I don't think it gives it that much context |
| Miles Kusaba | . North of uh Frankfurt. Historically, this area has been the home of many optical lens photography companies. Uh Leica has been here in the entire history of the company, aside from a short period where they moved to Solms. So this specific area that we're in, which is called Lights Park, is a home of uh camera and lens manufacturing. This specific campus, as I guess we can call it, uh opened in 2014 and they've expanded it rather dramatically in the subsequent seven years. Most recently, they opened a hotel on campus and several other administrative buildings that also house other businesses that are associated with the Leica company as well. So it's all kind of enclosed into this one campus area and uh it is the home of uh Leica. And Leica created this area to be the home of Leica for, as we were saying, the sort of cult of Leica, which um is accurate, although I feel like today using the word nerd, which we also used, is very accurate. I think of coming here as kind of like the experience of let's say going to your first Star Trek convention or comic con for maybe the younger people today, you go and you instantly realize, oh, I have something in common with all of the people here. Which is pretty fantastic. I don't think anybody who even has a passing interest in Leica comes here and walks away thinking, meh, that was, you know, it was okay. Nothing meh about it. Yeah. No, it's obsessive. Everyt |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | hing they do seems obsessive to me. Yeah. It's interesting because I was thinking about this uh in the last twenty four hours, you know, sort of the makeup of the person or persons who might be interested in a luxury brand or a product that is superlative. And uh what I came up with was just really interesting for me, which I r hadn't really put it in these specific terms is th there are many people who are sort of wired a a certain way or have a psychological makeup that drives them to let's say succeed, right? Uh uh an athlete, a politician, uh, a lens designer, um, a real estate developer. And they and there's a group of people who just want to be the best, f however that works, psychologically or you know, just emotionally. And i it's the pursuit of great things, uh things that are just made with a unique flair. You know, the timing uh watch that you know times the re-entry of a space module, you know, a car that is the fastest car, a lens that resolves the most or has a look that is unique. We aspire to things that are that not because wow that's an expensive watch or I love that car because people love it. It's an extension of who we are in terms of pursuit of excellence. And this brand has always been that and has evolved to this unique, you know, sort of luxury brand environment now. So not everyone feels the same way, but I I I find that what appeals to me in, a watch or a car or a camera is an extension of my own personality. It's not to impress anybody. I've owned a lot of great cars. I've raced great cars. Um, I would never drive them for the personal I would get up at seven o'clock in the morning in Malibu and like drive to Solvang to have pancakes and no one saw me and drove back and put it back in the garage. Pancakes are good. But no, they're they're amazing. Yeah. Especially in solving. Especially in solving, yeah. So it's it's more that or like I don't, you know, you know, pull up my sleeve for someone to see my watch. I can feel it on me. And it's a representation of my own pursuits in life, the pursuits of excellence in whatever uh pursuit, you know, I'm |
| James Stacey | I'm involved with. Yeah. And you know, my my introduction to the brand was a few years ago via the previous host of this show and your friend and and Miles friend Stephen Povert. Yeah. And and he he kinda got me into it and explained why why it's special and why it has this deep connection, not so much with the technical side of photography, that's core, of course, the execution of photography, but the artistic side as well. In in in a way that most brands are only just starting to emulate now by running their own awards, by supporting photographers directly by working with the artist rather than simply the the end result and and say social media or things like that. And and I found it really fascinating to come here and to learn additional dimensions. Like I you know this sounds silly ca especially saying it to you guys, but I don't mind sounding like a like a I don't you know like I get things wrong occasionally, but I didn't even realize that uh just how monumental the first Leica was in terms of what it meant to photography. The fo like kind of the way that people think of their smartphone now, go back to nineteen thirteen and suddenly you didn't have to carry around something that had to ride along in your car and be set up like an Ansel Adams photo. Y you could have it in your hand and take a photo that would resolve and and and could be focused and and all these other things. And I I didn't realize that was that was how deep they were in the game. I just thought it was kind of like there's a certain methodology to other brands and there's a methodology to Leica. And I think that's that's a layer. But that layer came from a deep root in uh like engineering and and r deep thought and how what photography could be, not just what it is |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | . Put it in your pocket and pull it out and record something, document something that is uniquely individual. And this is really, really an important, you know, uh, you know, change because as you mentioned, you know, a view camera of the day, uh, not everyone would understand the technique to be able to use it. So it was like a democratization of truth. And it's very powerful to be able to tell a story with this tool that uh now is pocket |
| James Stacey | able. Yeah. And and you know, we're not just here because we like the brand or because you know with Hodinki we have a connection, a direct connection to the brand at even a retail level. We're we're also here because they're running the Leica Oscar Barnak Awards, and Oscar Barnack is the gentleman that uh designed and created the first uh Leica and and kind of revolutionized the idea, but created street photography essentially, uh uh depending on how you want to look at it. But revolutionized the idea of what how big a camera would be and what it could do. Uh and and I think all of that's fascinating. And then of course they they are the awards have uh recipients, pick people who get the award. And what I found interesting is neither of the two people who were m most heavily featured are the types that would have millions of followers on Instagram and and and you know take pictures of luxurious things. I mean we're talking about someone in going into the one of the coldest places in Russia and uh you can hit the show notes, I'll share all of this and we'll make it easier than that and I don't have to butcher anyone's the pronunciation of anyone's name. Um, but uh one gentleman that goes into the the g to document the the fallout of the gulag, what's left, essentially the skeleton, the um the corpse of the gulag and and what that is in a in a very cold and unforgiving environment within Russia. And then a really uh fantastic and and energetic woman who who kind of devoted several years to visiting these kind of interim prisons uh in South America where women were being held before they were even being sentenced. And the photos are beyond impactful. I mean why why don't you talk a little bit about your work and how it maybe it's evolved over the time that the cameras have also evolved or your relationship with cameras |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | . Yeah, thank you so much for the that opportunity because it's very directly related to journalism because I have been shooting uh M cameras for my entire life, uh which is a long time now, and it was started as a journal a uh a tool for journalism. And that's exactly why I adopted it, because it's discreet, it's quiet, it's pocketable, and I can tell my story without involving other people so that they present something other than themselves. I I in the I shoot in the fashion beauty sector. I care very little about that. What I care about are are people. And the uh and I'm fascinated by the ability to connect with people so that I can have that experience myself and also present that experience to others. And so my clients are all like, you know, how do you make people look so natural and it's easy if you just allow them to be in a safe place and unobstructed by my own uh you know sort of presentation. I don't make people, I I can do whatever I want for them to do, you know, as long as it's moral and legal. For sure. But you know, um, but what happens is this is uh uh uh instead of me saying, oh, wear this, sit there, do this. I just put people in an environment. So I'm documenting in the same way that a journalist will. But it's a journalist of person uh a journalist of person of personality and and style and grace and femininity or masculinity or the blend or the the confusion, anything that fascinates me, I allow it to unfold. So the I I'm a journalist in the same way that uh you know uh anybody else is but a different street. Right. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Well I mean speaking speaking of streets, we just got back from walking around uh kind of aimlessly, not it not totally aimlessly, we we actually had a fantastic tour guide that House Friedwart is uh I didn't pronounce it properly, but is the actual name of the house. You're gonna get a lot of fact checking from me, but I'll do it for myself. I can save you guys the time in the in the in the comments. And if I get it wrong, I'm just gonna blame my Canadian accent. Um which of course doesn't actually affect it, but uh it it it's my it's my umbrella term here. The Lights famil |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | y's home on the hill, literally overlooking Vetchlar, uh a historic city v uh uh of uh both of optics but the s the the the city was found not founded but uh a lot of the uh architecture is there from like the fourteen hundreds |
| James Stacey | , sixteen hundreds of Yeah, if you think your c your classic European village, uh dense village with the cobblestone streets and the houses where like not every wall is the same. Uh they're not all they they all have their own kind of attitude. Different, they're not straight. A couple times I looked up well you with one eye closed using the viewfinder on my on my camera and I felt a little bit off balance because you'd get these there's not a lot of straight lines in in buildings that old. They've they've settled in and have all this personality. Yeah, but you looked w great, uh leaning a little bit |
| Miles Kusaba | . Isn't that also one of the most fantastic things about this area? You know, the sort of dichotomy of you know, going to old town Vetzlar, seeing these beautiful old several hundred-year-old slate-sided houses um, you know, that are borderline, Hansel and Gretel kind of, you know, looking and then, you know, a five-minute car ride away. Here we are in Lights Park at Wetzlar, where they're making the most technologically uh advanced sort of photography optical products that you know that exist. And I think that I think that's a a fun balance uh to strike here. Makes sense Oh no, complet |
| James Stacey | ely. You know, we got him very early a few a couple of days ago. And from the moment we hit the parking lot, we're on some sort of a tour and I'm watching somebody hand grind a lens. And I was like, I knew that like 'cause we're expensive and that's a a very cliche easy thing to say. I mean really good cameras are expensive regardless of the brand, so that's it's a wash at a certain point depending on what you want to shoot. But I didn't realize that uh this is what I like about certain classes of uh cars and that there's still some handcraft left where if the if you sat me at the desk, I would destroy this important piece of glass. Right? Because it's not just a machine. And they they have all these incredible machines that are testing the accuracy of the handcraft, which is is kind of an a neat way of having some tradition and being the best at what you can possibly do |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | . But the but the operative thing is that it is a handcraft, aided by computers and uh sophisticated analysis machines, but it still requires the human hand and the patience uh to address |
| James Stacey | their pursuits. Aaron Powell And the the thing that struck me, and it struck me the strongest while we were in Old Town because we crossed paths with uh and and if he listens to this, uh take my most sincere apology, uh uh a gentleman who's uh uh I don't remember his name. I I met him last night at the bar, but uh a gentleman from Manchester who's a a Leica uh dealer. And he had uh Miles can tell you more about the lens, the age of the lens, but he had actively modified one mount to accept a lens that's how old, Miles? Give us a little bit of background. Because this blows me away because he was mounting it to a modern digital fra |
| Miles Kusaba | me and it all worked. Right. So what James is talking about is um uh and we'll we'll kind of this is a little bit inside baseball deep dive, you know, like a nerd sort of stuff. Um uh the first Leica that was created by Oscar Barnack in 1914, which is called the Ur camera, um, which basically means the the the first one, you know, the pre the pre-prototype, the the number one, uh which Oscar Barnak actually called the Lilliput, uh, and for any of you literature fans out there, Lilliput was the name of the uh world village in Gulliver's Travels where miniature people and animals and things lived. And it was sort of a cute nickname for him because it wa at the time was a miniature camera where every camera was large. Um but in any case, uh that first camera that he created, there were no lenses at that point designed for any cameras that size because no cameras that size existed. So the lens that he first put on it was a uh a lens from the microscope department uh at Leica, which at that time was making predominantly microscope, uh full microscopes, microscope optics, et cetera. So what James is talking about was we this gentleman we met uh had uh procured the same model of microscope lens that was in that first org camera, which again for you serious lycanerds out there is a 42 millimeter uh micro sumar uh f4.5 microscope lens, which he retrofitted to mount into the UR camera. So this gentleman found one of those microscope lenses, retrofitted it to mount inside the housing of a nickel-plated Elm scorerew mount lens and adapted that to work on his M10D, which is a no-digital back like a camera model, which means no chimping. And you know, for you camera people out there, you know that chimping means taking the photo and then immediately looking at the back to see the result. This camera has no digital back. It is purely for snapping photos in the moment. And he adapted that lens to that camera. I'm pretty sure that it's possible maybe somebody else has done that in the uh I don't know how many years since nineteen fourteen, but I have never seen it done. So it was striking to see that. |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | The sort of objective, I believe, uh, for him and others, including myself, is to you know, humanize the digital world and you can take optics that were hand-ground uh a little over a hundred years ago or right around a hundred years ago in the case of the lights uh company Leica and and uh um and put them on a very modern you know uh sensor system and retain a bit of uh more humanity uh more consistent the with the way we see and this is very important because we have our foveal vision which is uh detailed and we have our peripheral vision which is less detailed and it is in fact blurry. Now, if you design a lens that doesn't have any falloff that is consistent with human neurobiology and you know human sight, it looks odd. And yet the marketing system of most camera and optics companies w are are selling these tools or toys either way that are inconsistent with the way we see. And so this is a gentleman who you know put together this lens to you know it was a very exaggerated uh pursuit like that. So we have to understand, if you really want to understand what they're doing here, have to understand first how we see and then and and respond to it in a way of like, you know, an aha moment, like, oh, of course, that makes sense. The emotion in human vision is in the out-of-focus regions of our vision. That's just a medical fact. They're able to track impulses to that degree. And so when we I like shooting very advanced, the most advanced lenses on my film cameras. And I like to use lenses that are not as highly corrected, they're beautiful on the digital cameras. And this is a balance for me that is achieved |
| James Stacey | It's also it's interesting because there there is an existence obviously of being able to mount old lenses onto new bodies uh across lots of different brands. So it's not like a just a alike thing. It's it's something that's definitely a core like passion within the appreciation of because this stuff is all made following the same rules. So it all plays the same game when you c connect even if you have to make your own adapter in in the case of this microscope lens. But it I think what's interesting here is that it's the um it it it's the way in which the company blends the traditional with the modern. And like you said, you know we're sitting here and you've got uh a uh rangefinder style camera and a more modern, uh effectively a more modern autofocus camera. But the autofocus camera, I can't see the side of it, but if it's carrying around the streets earlier, it's uh it's with a fifty, uh, you know, a manually focused 50 millimeter lens, right? |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | Yeah. First designed in the uh it was um uh exposed or r released in 1966, the F-1.2 Noctilex. So I'm using a camera that was made, you know, this year, the most advanced consumer sensor technology. It's amazing, with a lens that was designed in the uh early sixties to again like be released in 1966. So this is um part of what they're doing and that and and they're uh you trying to present it and explain it in such a way that you reap the benefits of this combination |
| James Stacey | . Okay, it's time for our ad break and we couldn't be more thrilled to have Grand Seiko supporting this episode of Hodinky Radio with the new SBGY 007 from the Elegance Collection with a beautiful dial inspired by Japan's Lake Sua, this mesmerizing watch is nicknamed Oma Watari for the frozen ridges of ice that are known to form when winter sets in and the lake freezes over. As the seasons change and the days get shorter, it's an apt time to highlight this stunning timepiece. With a beautifully finished 38.5mm steel case, the SBGY 007 uses Grand Seiko's revolutionary spring drive technology for its 9R31 movement, which is accurate to an impressive plus-1minus5 seconds a month. Its dual barrel structure gives a 72-hour power reserve, and the exhibition caseback showcases the movement's power reserve indicator. With a retail price of $8,300, the Grand Seco SBGY zero zero seven offers a beautiful and distinctive dial along with all the craftsmanship and elegance that has made Grand Seiko such an important part of the modern watchmaking landscape. Check the show notes for more or visit grand-seco.us.com for all of the details. And now back to the show. And in in your mind, and and Miles, I would love to ask you as well, because you do have a lot of experience with this. And I' Im'm going to be honest, relatively new to it. I'm I'm into my first one or two Leikas. I'm kind of becoming more obsessed this trip hasn't helped uh or hurt how depending on how you want to look at it. But you know I'm I'm interested to think that you do you see having all this sort of flexibility in lenses, bodies, autofocus, no autofocus, whatever that expands the options of the craft, how specific you can be about various uh characteristics of an image. Uh or is it m a little bit more internal than that? It's like uh it it becomes you can you can design a system that's almost reflexive rather than something that's between you and what you're trying to take a picture of |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | . I shouldn't say this, but uh from my own experience, like I I I I work in this field and I have worked in this field my entire life, whether it be you know uh film or uh still images and one must be individual, unique. Uh it's hard to go get a job if you're presenting something that's the last person who was the took their meeting there presented something the same. So it's about finding one's own voice literally, um, and figuratively. Like what are you trying to say? I always say, like, what's your movie? You know, what's the story? Who's the protagonist? What do they look like? Where do they grow up? What's the conflict? How do they resolve it? What does this mean to, you know, and this relates to a still image is we have to know like what we're intending, the story we're intending to to tell. And so you use all this craft to refine and define and present your uniqueness. And especially in this digital age of you know scrolling endlessly through images, uh, another crazy thing is that uh I do a lot of research into the scientific features of photography. And um one of them is we everything we see, everything we see from the day we're born goes to memory first before it is processed as an image. Everything. So it all relates to the history of your sight and then relates to emotion as well. So you start to think about that. Like if you're looking at things continuously, they become a portion of your memory. It's recursive. Yeah. Fascinating. |
| James Stacey | I didn't I had I I had never heard that explained in that specific way. That's it's probably because it's really scary and people, you know, but I've been that really kind of changes the the the concept of perception, doesn't it? Because if you're if everything you have is going through your filter, you're and not just not just your ego, the the part that you're aware of or that you could suppress, you know, in a stoic manner or whatever. But if it's almost like autonomic, if it's if it's a background process but it's a filter nonetheless, it's it's crazy to think the way that one piece of art or anything might hit one person versus another. How do we ever agree on anything |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | ? Well, we don't. No, seriously. I suppose. We no, not visually. How do you know that what I see is red you see is red? Or this color thing. The color question. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, like I you don't know. And then you know, one one child can have a a d a blue a doll with a blue dress on it and you know uh her brother threw it out the window one day uh you know because he was pissed off and you know that blue represents to that child that event you can't separate the two so now you've got a situation where people are trying to figure out, oh how, do I become unique in the marketplace or just, you know, show a picture that, you know, there's where there's commonality. Well, I'm afraid there's not really now there can be similar type of experiences and you can sort of like talk about it like, oh yeah, I I saw that. Well, not exactly that, yeah, but a version of it. And so we get along that way, but in a scientific m manner we don't |
| James Stacey | . So I'm interested then how with that understanding, and you're able to put it into very simple terms. So my guess is you're able to understand it at a very deep level when it comes to your work. How do you how do you contextualize any feedback? Like if I see one of your images and I like it on Instagram, or I tell you, I send you a message or I see you and I say, Oh, I love that image. I |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | uh I I hope I'm unique in this, but I don't hear uh accolades. I I I I I shut off. I don't I don't hear them. I don't remember them. Uh they're for me quite in invalidated. I I I appreciate it. Uh you know, more of a social currency than than something for uh what you might see as you're a professional. I just don't hear it. And I and I'm not uh in pursuit of those act. I know when it's correct and when it's not. I, you know, um I I I know when've done 100%. And so that's a little different because, you know, for me it's very odd. And I and so I don't pursue it. But um because I uh understand that there's there's so much variance. I appreciate that you like it, but it's not necessarily what governs me and I pursue clients uh and and collaborators. Yeah. It just I'm the where they see what I do for work and they hire me for that and I just go do my thing. And it sound maybe sounds a little cocky and it is, but we need to be cocky. We're we're trying to present ourselves as storytellers and as you know visu It gets sort of complex, but that dynamic is uh an important one. And I do a lot of lecturing on this so people understand. It's like these, you know, sort of epiphany moments. You know, like I tell like another sort of fun one is that, you know, 50% of a motion picture when you sit down and watch it in a theater is black. And then people go, What? No, fifty you know, because we have uh what's called the persistence of vision that retains an image for a certain amount of time. This is the same reason why you can't see your eyes move in a mirror, right? Right. Yeah. Your brain drops those frames. Yeah, black frames. You know, so these are things like you might think, oh, it's so scientific and this and that. And it it just aids me in my pursuit because my work is pretty loose. And that's why, and this may be like a sound like a sales pitch for Leica, but they design things that are consist lenses that are consistent with human vision more consistent than the pursuit of marketing of some of |
| James Stacey | the other brands. Miles and I a couple days ago recorded a similar chat in some ways, with um Dr. Andres Kaufman, who's the chairman of the super supervisory board of Leica AG. And I asked him a couple questions and I got an interesting answer. And I'm I'm wondering where you would land on us. And we're going to play that interview, so if you're listening to this, you'll get to it just a couple minutes. It'll be on the second half of the show. But I'm I'm interested in how all of what we've been talking about so far. I'm more interested than when I thought of this question earlier because I hadn't heard everything that we've been talking about. But I'm interested in how you think that links up with people's absorbing photography in the manner of social media. Whereas if you wanted to experience an amazing photographer 20 years ago, you had to go see the exhibitor by the book. Right. And there's a lot of control, the artist has a lot of control in that. Of course. There's no algorithm controlling the the the experience of turning the pages of the book. If it if you like the image, you'll probably flip the page to the next one. That's right. Right? Yeah. But there's nothing, none of that exists in a non dig non physical way. Uh so when let's say if we use Instagram uh as an example, where where do you land on that as as a value um not to the audience but maybe to the creator on the creator side. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's just informational. And I' |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | m all can, you know, uh a thousand percent aware of what is happening to me because I have a basic scientific understanding of it, like we've just talked about. You know, so, you know Dr. Kaufman, uh uh I I know him a bit and we've spent some time together and uh we've had uh discussions about this stuff and um it's about embracing we uh we we we can't put on the brakes now. And so it's how do we uh deal with this uh insane influx of information? Uh Louise Gluck, who won the Nobel Prize for Poetry or Literature this last year. She wrote, and I'm going to sort of butcher the quote, but it's an important one. We uh we see once in childhood and the rest is history. Or is memory, sorry. And so it's again, it's like so everything you see is coming at you, and if you you gotta know that where it's going first and it becomes part of your, you know, being. But if you think, okay, I know it's going there in history. And then we can uh oh thank you so much, my producer. Sage uh here's the quote. We look at the world once in childhood, the rest is memory. |
| James Stacey | And this is a quote by Louise Gluck. And I mean th that th it's a simple line. That's that's like the eight words or whatever. But let that sink in for a moment if you're listening. I'm letting it sink in. It kinda dro dropped my jaw when you think about it. Yeah, you only got to see once and the rest has been l loosely in the past. Milliseconds. Memory conceivably. Yeah. But you're actively recalling not you're not processing it as it's happening. Or you're you're processing you're not experiencing it truly as it's happening. No, |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | because it's already been filtered by your own memory. Yeah. It's sort of like a deja vu, like you know, you you feel like, oh, I've been here before. No, no, you haven't. It just the same impulse was registered in your brain slightly after the first one. So it's the same impulse twice, but they can't occupy the same space. So then one becomes memory, the where you feel it. You feel the memory. Oh, I've been here before. It's like, no, that was just like a millimetase beforehand, you know. So Dr. Kaufman, getting back to sort of the comment about it, we've we've we've had discussions about this, like, you know, what the future is, and uh there's great movement. And uh Dr. Kaufman is a visionary about this of, you know And that's what he's most uh interested in and how best to do that. And it's just changing so quickly. |
| James Stacey | And so I think we're getting towards the end of this. We've already talked about Dr. Kaufman. We're going to get to that chat in just a couple minutes. And uh if if you've been listening to the last this is our tenth episode with me as the host, if you've been listening to the last one, do you know that occasionally I like to ask a a not not difficult question and not really leave enough time for anyone to really think about it. No problem. So here's my here's my shoot is within the context of everything we've just talked about, which I think is very fascinating and and I've really enjoyed this. How would you take that and package it in a way that could help someone who might be on the starting side of their career rather than yourself where you're established and like you said, you've been doing this for a while, you watch digital come in, you you've integrated it, all that kind of stuff has happened. Now somebody, let's say they're a couple years in, they've watched Instagram become arguably everything. And maybe they've got peers who have a million followers and and but they're they're doing arguably work that they think is more important or maybe even better, uh c classically better or more more photographic or however you might measure that. What what would be the the the shortest, you know, like the the similar to the quote that we had, how would you inspire somebody to navigate that world as you've seen the waters come in |
| Mark (Fashion/Beauty Photographer) | . Yeah. I mean it's most often answered with, you know, um uh answers that are more confusing and more discouraging. Axioms. Yeah. This is really simple, quite frankly. Um you are already uniquely you, right? Everything has gone through your life. No one grew up in your room, uh experiencing the things the way you do, see color the way you do, emotionally, you know, uh respond to things the way you do. Instead of looking elsewhere for uniqueness, which is hard to do when you're inundated with all this, you know, digital information, y you know, in this case visually. Yeah, people are up to their neck in the stream of the U. But the answer is simple is go to who you are and know you're already uniquely poised to do it. If you're brave enough to express yourself in a way that is reflective of your own makeup. And you it may say, oh, that's really hard to do. It's really not. Feel it as I I I've done this uh series called Recent Work. And recent work is a series of images that I do not utilize um my experience or my expertise in order to push the button. I I I I use my emotion. Like if I'm just walking down the street and I feel something, I push the button without thinking like, oh, it's great light, or that's a beautiful person, or that's a beautiful Mount Fuji. Those things are easy. It takes bravery to push the button when you feel something and then know what that is about and either pursue that or hide that or whatever you want to do to create your um you know body of work. You know, so it can be as something, you know, was very important like social change or equality and the work, any of these topics that are traditionally very important and they are important, but it really is based on what you want to do, how you feel, and push the but |
| James Stacey | ton. I think I love that. I I think that's probably where we're in. Mark, Miles, it's been uh really lovely to spend a couple days with you guys and likewise. Thank you. Thank you very much. This has been fun. Uh let's get on to dinner and coming up in just a few moments here. I I think a really fascinating chat with uh the guy in charge of what we've been talking about. Okay, Doctor Kaufman, thank you so much for coming on the show and and for having us out to uh to the wonderful HQ for Leica. Welcome to Wetzlar and Light Spark. Yeah, it's a it's a a real treat to be here and it's fascinating to get an inside look at what Leica's up to and and how you operate as a brand and kind of how that differentiates Leica from other camera companies in that it it is this this kind of specialized way of doing a lot of the the various processes and we've been lucky enough to uh have some time. Miles who's who's also here with us uh and I have been uh doing taking tours and and seeing beautiful pieces of glass being made by artisans and that sort of stuff. And it's it's been really inspiring to see how much uh craftsmanship goes into something that people then use to kind of create artwork. Uh and it's an interesting kind of cycle that creates that. And and and I'm interested in in understanding how you kind of came to Leica and and how you personally kind of interface with um with uh the kind of the general world of of photography. Do you have a a background in photography before Leica? Uh no, no, |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | no. I like a typical German bar uh boy. I did grow up but uh but live since nearly twenty years in Austria. Um I I got a camera uh when I was twelve or so, very cheap one, well came from German Democratic Republic production. I still have it at my office in Salzburg. And uh normally you got it and then you so uh explain put the film in it, then the first two rows of film nothing. And then I went to the photo dealer and got this sort of introduction. So I still have one or two pictures from those times. I think it was poof sixty seven or something like that. So that's uh no real photo b background. We came to Wetzlar via totally different uh circumstances. Um in our old family company, which was Pulp Paper and Packaging. We decided to sell the remaining shares after hundred one years of ownership. That was two thousand four. And two years before, we set up um company in Salzburg, ACM, looking into buying into other smaller companies in Germany. So and by coincidence, we came together with a company which is now here, Vella Feinwerk Technik. In those days, smaller company like today, and the owner wanted to sell hundred percent, and we were able to convince him we pay him for seventy-five percent the same amount we uh as for hundred percent if he stays with a company because German Mittelstand you need the people. Okay, that's how we came to Wetzlar. 2002. 2003 we bought a company from Lecker camera. It's via Optic, also here at Leitzpark. Okay. Small company then. And that was how we came together with Leica. And then we found out: oh, Leica is a listed company, and the main shareholder is Elma's. So then we had a talk with El MS, we had a talk with the management and then we decided to buy into the company as a second biggest shareholder. And that's how it started. It's always good when you know at the beginning, not what happens afterwards, because maybe you wouldn't have done it, but that was august two thousand four. So as a shareholder first at Leica and then very soon helping to devel |
| James Stacey | op a restructuring plan. And v in your mind, now that you've had this experience of you know the the better part of you know more than fifteen years, w what is the core of Leica today in 20 |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | 21? Oh we usually use uh what we call the Leica brand universe, the about twenty topics in there. A key element is always design and design consistency. But on the other hand, it's technology. Don't forget when you see people over there with gray hair screwing together very complicated things, the production process before is high in technology. And you haven't seen our R and D department. 180 people. Software people, artificial intelligence people, and so on and so forth. So it's a combination of having very traditional elements based on longstanding craftsmanship, and on the other hand, always technology as the heart. It was not always cameras because Leica was only a part of the older company and slides. So what we're doing at the moment, and when we later talk about watches, we think that Leica can be expanded a little bit, not too far, but the core will always be this design consistency, the heritage and technology |
| James Stacey | With the design consistency, uh how important do you figure uh general design is, whether it's l legacy design respecting the tradition of Leica's design, or just being a a sort of tastemaker in the ergonomics and and the style of a of a camera or or other filming equipment. How how important is that to Leica's success? Very important. But it's um |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | it it's in the tradition of German technology design. So it's not completely because sometimes people think oh that's Bauhaus. No, that's not Bauhaus. German technology design is always driven by partially form follower functions, but on the other hand with Leica, how does it look right? And that's very complicated. And how does it feel right? The haptics. So these are certain elements, and you can always use traditional design elements to interpret interpret them a little bit differently. So when you look at our M well that's at the core, the M three there is still as a relationship to the new M ten. Or when you see we have a C L here. The C L has a sort of relationship to Leica 1. When you look at it, it's a sort of Leica 1 redeveloped. But in a modern design, although it looks differently. The um S L that was a that was a very I would say tough design step because decided this camera has to look a bit brutal. |
| James Stacey | And it does. I think that's a that's a perfect word. That's almost exactly how I would describe it. And I also think that what what's special about the Leica stuff is regardless of the M, C L, SL, even the Q, which is what I carry in hoop shot for years, um there it's so distinctive compared to anything else on the market. That's why we're always thinking a lot about design. |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | But that's a given. The other part is the key part. So we have our our design team now in Munich since a few years. They were formerly uh was a special design team by Walter De Silva, the car designer who was originally with Alfa Romeo and later with the Volkswagen Group. And we have them since uh two thousand we worked together uh with them on the first that was the M9 Titanium. It was designed by Walter De Silva and his team, that was 2010. And uh since then we worked together with them and when Walter uh left uh Volkswagen Group, we got the team based in Munich, because uh a design team has to be always a little bit you can't put them in the middle of the company because they have to work on creative things. So you can't always disturb them. So they're based in Munich and um they have this idea so we we're looking into other products too. So |
| Miles Kusaba | I think it's the first phone I've ever seen that has a proper lens cap to the camera, which I thought obviously that's a design element, but because it reflects the design DNA of Leica, I think it I thought it was amazing |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | . Inside you find a single camera but it's a one inch sensor, which formerly you had in the typical consumer cameras. So but doing this in this small setup, yeah, it's uh the the height is not that much was pretty tricky to do. And I think we achieved quite nice results. Unfortunately it's only for the Japanese market |
| James Stacey | . And w how would you you know looking at something like this and then we've been talking about the design, yeah, how does it work in integrating a traditional design language or and kind of the strengths of Leica's brand into other technology, like in this case a phone? |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | It's related. It's the consumer camera of the day, only with a few additional functions. Everybody is a photographer nowadays. Everybody shoots videos, uh sends it via the via TikTok or whatever. So everybody's shooting. So this is the entry level into high end uh camera approach, but ninety percent are happy with that and it's totally okay. But we said we could add a few things to it. So I I I see this as the |
| James Stacey | entry point. It's an interesting thing to consider as well because we took a tour today and learned about the history the v the the early nineteen fourteen you know history of Leica and the fact that that that first camera that Oscar Barnak designed allowed photography to become mobile and fast and light and and uh not inexpensive, but much more accessible from uh you don't need a giant camera and transfer plates and the rest of it. And now we see the same thing in a phone and and it's it's you know it's kind of a full circle where we looked into this technology since two thousand six. Into uh small like sm |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | all sensors for phones or or uh integration |
| James Stacey | of larger. |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | From a totally different approach, which is the mobile phone approach. We are coming from the camera how to capture light. And there's always a problem how to capture light in a very small environment you have in the smartphone. 2006 our company via Optic experimented with Siemens phones. Gone with a wind. I remember Siemens for sure, yeah. Yeah. And in 2008, no, end of 2007, we had a contract with a company which at this time was based in Schomburg, Illinois. Starts with M. with a si signed contract. And two weeks later the whole department was restructured and nobody So we said we probably don't insist on the contract. And we had a few other experience with companies. One in Finland starting with an N I remember this. One in um uh m in California in a uh little town called Cupatino and a few others. So the first real step was with a Chinese company, Huawei. Yep. But then came 2018, Mr. Trump, China, US trade war, killed Huawei. So next step. |
| James Stacey | I had a P20 Pro and it was an excellent camera. That's a good one, yeah. And it's my understanding the the lens designs were were like us. Yeah, we work together dire |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | ctly with the with the lens camera producer, which is not Huawei. These are usually four or five companies, us |
| James Stacey | ually from Taiwan. Sure, okay. And uh talking about phones, I'm I'm interested to think uh in in your time, in your time with Leica, that one of the largest changes in the photography world has been the proliferation of smartphones and then social media. Yeah. Do you think in and looking back at it and understanding the history of where we're sitting and everything, do you feel that Instagram has been a positive force |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | for photography? You know, that that's an a that that's a question you can't answer with yes or no. Um that only uh only w when there's a judge. Yeah. Okay. Um The thing is, on one hand, we we made we made an um event with the Instagram founders in Tokyo 2012. Yeah. At a certain time when Instagram was not so much known. Very new, yeah. Yeah. Because Instagram is a sort of how to tell the world about my personal life. Right. of the sun my view of my naked wife or whatever. Yeah. Okay, there there are some borders and uh Instagram those rules have changed a little bit since then. Yeah. Sure. Um it's it's okay. Theoretically it should be it should be probably not in the hands of a private company because it's a basic basic social function worldwide. The idea of sharing. Yeah. So uh how the how it's run, okay, there's a certain company behind it, um, who grab all the data. Um is that the correct way? Probably not. There will be changes somewhere. But Instagram is a great tool. For older photographers above forty, it's always still Facebook. Not for the young generation. So my kids don't use Facebook. I use Facebook, I connect with photographers, usually a little more silver haired than me. Um because in in Facebook you do tell more stories. In Instagram it's like a telegram, yeah? One th one shot, that's it. A pointed edge just the tip. I don't use Twitter. Uh uh Twitter is an awful in my opinion, awful medium because I find it very noisy. Noisy and it's irresponsible. Yeah. You can start a uh basically a little war there. Uh to do to certain whatever. So I still have a Twitter account, but I think I haven't used it for two years or |
| James Stacey | so. When you're interfacing with photographers and and really like leveraging your position and the strength of Leica, what do you find is kind of the common ground that you you find with these creative elements? At at the end it's al |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | ways about photography in the point of view. Yeah. You need good tools for that and I think we do quite nice tools for that. But we also offer other things like the Leica galleries. So 26 galleries worldwide. That means photographers, when you're really um a very serious photographers, you have the possibility to show your work in a |
| James Stacey | Yeah, there's something very in uh even though it is it stays on your phone or in your feed or whatever. But there's something here. |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | These are printed pictures. That's Mr. Hitchcock with uh Mrs. Bergman. So a a printed picture works. Yeah. So usually I would ask you how many pictures do you have on your smartphone? Oh I mean several thousand. Who knows? I just changed uh the smartphones, I haven't downloaded all of them. Originally I had fifteen thousand. Yeah. What do I do with them? Hmm, not much. Yeah? But a printed picture. Or here behind you, that's by a famous German photographer, a view of Salzburg in black and white. So a printed picture is a statement. It's a picture. The rest sometimes you know I use this sentence, only a printed picture is a picture, the rest is data. This when it's at the wall, it's a statement. So between that and Instagram, I use Instagram, not every day, but um I post things usually around Leica, some pictures I shoot. Um, never about personal things because that's probably a generation thing. When I see what my kids post, I would not |
| James Stacey | do that. Yeah, no, I I I I feel that way as well for sure. I don't I don't fully understand. I I do like it as an endpoint for something that I feel I've finished. Yeah. And I can put it out there and your peers see it and that's kind of nice. So for inst |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | ance, one of the last pictures I posted on Instagram was a part of an old Alpha Romeo from 1947. Wha what Alpha? Uh very special one. An eight C uh no in six C six C two thousand five hundred S. Pininfarina. It it it was a very uh famous guy in those days. He was an Italian but he lived in uh Argentine and he was uh every year about two about two months he stayed at the Côte d'Azur, had his Alfred Romeo there, and invited everyone because he was he he had was married to a U New York showgirl. Okay. And so so he invited um uh movie people, etcetera etc and the idea in this car they're quite an interesting few people were sitting in a but uh it's just a a tiny little piece of um the back of the car um and um a sort of reflection in the ch |
| James Stacey | rome. I I think Alp |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | ha Romeos are beautiful cars. I have a few. Yeah. My oldest is from nineteen thirty-two. That's a 6E 1750. And I did drive the millimeter twice in that. That's gotta be incredible. At the end, you hate it, but afterwards, that's every good experience is kind of like that, though, right? Like it's a little hard and half a year later, said, Oh, I shouldn't need to do it again. A glutton for punishment for sure. One time I did I I did killer car in there, um the the the clutch went bust. But that happens. You know, in our family we call this uh first you the German word for that gebrauchtwagen sport, that means used car sport. I like that. That's cool. |
| James Stacey | Clearly a you know a pa a passion for cars. No, that that's fine. That's fine. I think it's overlapping passions, cars, watches, cameras, all that kind of stuff. We see that a lot. Do you have a a passion to collect uh other uh other things that you're really fascinated with? Unfortunately, like a a camer camaseras. Like. Now you you uh uh you you pulled a uh cue out of your bag. Uh do you have a an any other that you really like to carry, or is it pretty much a cue's always with you? |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | Um at my hotel I have the SL2S uh with the 2470 because that's easy for traveling. For sure. Uh because less weight, because I also have the 2490. Um but I only um pack this when I'm driving by car. I came by flight, so you always try to you use the weight so it's the Q sometimes the SL. Last time I've been here with the S3 but with the 70 millimeter lens that's still you can pack somewhere. Collecting at at my um at our A famous one is right at the wall. It's Brigitte Bardot with her lyer and in uh was sh was shot by a great uh French photographer and in the back you see part of a white Rolls Royce. Bridget Bardot needs a white Rolls Royce for sure. There's one there's one shot by German photographer uh Muamat Ali, uh in front of a you know a typical 64 Pro Mercury or something, but he has a Leica in his hand, Mumad Ali, and I have also the picture w which Muhammad Ali shot. Oh, and his picture |
| James Stacey | . |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | Right. And it's now what 150 uh pieces or so. Uh prints, always prints. Um, people |
| James Stacey | with a liker. And I I'm interested. Uh, you know, it's Odinky, so we we talk about watches mostly. Uh cameras are crucial because we take a lot of pictures of watches. Yeah, sure. Okay, sure. Uh as as you'd expect. Uh any any uh personal |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | interest in watches, love for watches? Yes. Um my first watch was from a a very famous brand in those days. It's nearly gone now. Um I always uh mix it up with a cynit, but it was not a cynit. It was uh sorry, it was an eternal. Oh okay. Of course it was. Uh when I was thirteen or so, but I had not a clue about watches. So it was in gold, yeah. I was given like a uh a turnamatic or that's a cool watch. I lost it one year later. I didn't care. My family asked where's the watch? I said, Oh, it's somewhere. Okay, so my first watch doesn't exist with me anymore. And what do you like to wear if you're wearing a watch? Does it change if you're traveling or not? Of course yeah. Yeah. Um sometimes I have a chopin a few chopinas. Uh from from running the race. Because I like I like yeah sure. I like this idea of the strap because that created a sort of unique design using the old Dunlop S P sport uh that was the tyre famous racing tire I think it's yeah, they always look great. But yeah, for th |
| James Stacey | ose listening that don't know the the Chopar strap that uh Dr. Kaufman's talking about, it's uh it's a a rubber strap, a really nicely tapered rubber strap that has the same tire tread pattern as a a vintage racing tire |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | . They use a Valjou Z M Cift, which is still a great movement, but try to set the date I put my microphone down Try to set the d |
| James Stacey | ate. Yeah, yeah. See? It's uh not not easy on |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | the on the fingernails or the fingertips. Right. Uh and that was what uh convinced me of what I did on the Leica watch, the push crown and the other pusher for the date. This this is a certain there's no fiddling or squeezing a tiny little knob. Yeah. I feel that we couldn't solve every problem which I saw in a watch. But this sort of I like I like these millimilia watches. I have a few. Yeah. But um it sort of convinced me we have to do it differently. And these are these are Leica watches. Yeah, these are I |
| James Stacey | we we just came from a little presentation and and you showed some of these and some of these I'm aware of. Actually only two of them I'm aware of to be fair, but there's five here. We'll snap a picture if we can and include it in the show notes if that's okay with you |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | . Collect um not the typical watches. So I even have an old Lange uh aviation from nineteen forty three. But it was a unified design, so you could not decide whether it's Laco, Lange or others. Right, it's uh uh a design standard. Like, a design specification, but that's a longer one, yeah. So um I have a few which I collected at a certain time, Meister Singer, one hand. Of course, yeah, yeah. And their brain's still going and they they do nice work. I thought that's an interesting idea because sometimes in a mechanical watch, you know, you don't need a tenth of a second. One minute is okay. Yeah. In Italy even it's a quarter of an hour, but yeah, for sure. So um so Meister Singer, I'm uh I have uh two or three uh Gers le coultres. Uh reversos or uh no, not not reversos. What's your taste in an old one? An old and gold one sm,all one and thirty three millimeters, from the fifties, and uh a memo box. Because that started our idea for the L three because I see a a lot of function in a watch with an alarm movement. Why? Quite simple. It happened to me once. I dropped my and this time I had an iPhone and the screen was gone. Now try to set the wake up call then. Okay. And then you call reception and there's a bloody guy who doesn't really speak English. Yeah. And then the wake up call you're not sure whether this will work the next morning. What did I have I have? a review Tom and Cricket. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So and that is always, you know, it's not a brand or watch you hear that much about. That's the last backup. So so they're only basically two two movements who who can do this. This is the old Vulcan, cricket, later Review Thoman and a few others, and the Memo Walks it's now called differently nowadays a little bit different. And this is the Jezalto movement. So So and that gave gave us the idea we should do something functional within with the haute or |
| James Stacey | the Vulcan is still making uh the the alarm based watches as well. There's some some really really cool stuff. |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | Somebody bought the brand and the rights uh to do it, etc. So um coming back to the question, I'm I'm sort of an eclectic watch collector. If something interesting so for instance, I bought uh at a store in uh Burlington Arcade in London, which uh they have these famous uh Rolex, etc. I saw an old omega there. It had a pushcrown. But it was for for an built-in stopwatch movement. Oh, okay. Found out that it was produced 1938. Oh wow. Okay. Um it has thirty-four thirty-four millimeters. Um the you know uh the dial looks uh looks very old fashioned uh and it has pushcrown. But for set uh for setting the uh stopping uh uh the the stopwatch. Right. Yeah. So you |
| James Stacey | see a little bit eclectic. And do you do you find, you know, in your experience you with Leica and and dealing with photographers you that there is this big overlap between camera fascination and watch fascination? Certainly enough so that Leica that would would then seek to produce it |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | . Um are also in in into having watches, are interesting in watches, etcetera. So I think there's definitely an overlap, y |
| James Stacey | es, absolutely. And do you think it's a a fascination with kind of the refinement of design and mechanics all all wrapped into one or is it kind of different for every person? One definit |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | ely that. The second one for certain people is about luxury because it's the only luxury element for for guy. Yeah. There's not much other stuff left for that. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, the gold chain thing um comes and goes with time with the times, right? And they get bigger than they really depends on what kind of story you want to tell. And then at the end you order at the bar an armand de B |
| James Stacey | rignac something. There you go. You know, from the perspective of someone who runs a camera company, how do you approach doing a watch? Because it's different than a camera. |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | As you see here, Leica always tried to do something somewhere. So we said at a certain moment, okay, but let's do it right. Quite simple. Yeah. Um but then it did take because we are not from the watch industry, so we had to learn quite a lot. So to telling all the stories the interview would be a few hours longer. |
| James Stacey | But the the end result is a a German developed uh watch that that really closely connects with the design language and and kind of look and feel of a Le |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | ica, right? There's certain elements of it from a from a watch designer who came from Lange, there was a Swiss uh Swiss watch designer, there was the industrialization by our partner Lehman and the the input from the design part, which has a huge element because the dial of a watch is about eighty percent of the impress |
| James Stacey | ion it gives. cameras or or watches, you know, that Leica's just kind of developing their their position in watches but long standing in cameras it's a big thing even in so much that Leica names the the names of the camera generally by generation, you know, uh M6, M7, so forth, what has to exist for something to make the leap to the next generation? |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | Design consistency. I always already told us at the beginning and some let's say technology elements because at the end the technology insight has to be really special, really good, always in combination with the optics. And in the optics you know optics is a bit of a witchcraft. Yeah. Science and experience and a few things which you don't understand and only the lens designer. |
| James Stacey | And do you ever see technology, the progression of technology as a threat to something as traditional as say a rangefinder? No. To |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | give you an give an example, we did a certain investment, I think it was twenty seventeen, into a company which was called Lite. They produced the light 16 at this time. 16 camera elements shooting computated into one picture. We did together with soft bank an investment this company to find out sorry there's a phone but you probably can't hear it right definitely um the thing is we invested in this company the main investor was softbank but then we found out it's not as easy as the pretended it is shooting with a lot of cameras and computating this into one picture the correct way. But it was a learning process. So we looked into the technology and invested into the technology. We know afterwards much better what you can do and what you can't. I think that's |
| Miles Kusaba | that's a really important point because a company like Lite that that you're referring to that made that piece of technology, um which to any photography enthusiast that's familiar with it, um was a very advanced kind of uh experimental sort of uh development. And contrasting that with a company like Leica, where most people think of a very traditional camera like the M series, um, I think it's interesting and I think it's valuable for people to realize that while maintaining the highest quality standards and a traditional sense of photography, you're also very actively looking at very Think of that what |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | we what we showed in the M ten, this kind of software element, when you shoot with a wide angle, that you can correct the line already inside the camera. That's artificial intelligence. We do this. Yeah, but only in the way where we think it makes sense for the photogra |
| Miles Kusaba | pher. Well, I think that's important too. Um if I think about the Q camera, the original Q and when it came out and the amount of time between the original Q and the Q2. I do remember there was some sentiment, certainly in comparing it to other brands. Uh I I won't name them, but brands that, you know, come out with the next iteration every year and every year. And with the Q, it was a little while until the Q2 came out. But I think there's a good reason for that because the Q was still is great. There's no reason to arbitrarily create an update |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | model until there's really something that needs to be a good photographers and said oh a lica is not cheap, I say buy a refurbished Q one. It's still a great code. There's a great way to get introduced to the br |
| James Stacey | and. Now I'm spoiled. Sorry. You know, Miles, it it's interesting the the technology question comes up because w uh I I've been thankful enough to have Miles walking around with us through these tours 'cause he knows a lot about the history of the brand. And you were telling me the story about the autofocus mechanism, right? And and how that was something that was, you know, developed by Leica and then deemed the original patterns were only |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | from the forties. Really? By Ludwig Leitz. Oh wow. I didn't know that. That's amazing. So the the the basic how to do this, but they couldn't do it but you didn't have the electronics. Right. Yeah. So only in |
| James Stacey | the seventies it was possible. I I was blown away when when it was the seventies. If you had asked me just to guess, I would have said autofocus is younger than I am. Like I'm just I'm just surprised that that there was technology that could manage that for a camera. And then you know, like uh Miles had had explained that Leica made the decision to not implement that into the cameras at the time. There was |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | a certain rational decision behind it because at this time they had the cooperation with Minolta. And they made a s a sort of barter deal. You get the autofocus and we get the R3 from you. Because the body of the R3 was made in Japan, but according to Leica design. So uh and what Minolta also got, and later you find this in the whole Japanese uh camera industry, uh the uh the metal shutter was invented also at lights. And this was also a barter trade uh with Copal um as they were working together with Minolta to hand over this pen. It was uh developed by uh uh Peter Loseries, one of the famous Leica designers and that was also an element uh invented here, but due to certain restrictions that we can't develop it furt |
| James Stacey | Where do you see um you know, I I w I wanna be respectful of your time and and and make sure that you've uh you've got other people to talk to, not just the other thing outside. My daughter So we we we can you know I I would be curious just to see what your roadmap is for like in the next few years. I think this is a a really special time for digital photography, it' its a time where y there's never been more people that might be interested in owning a Leica than ever before. One thing |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | is we will do more in the smartphone segment because it's not a smartphone, it's a camera.. Yeah And there's still things to be developed. At the moment we we have set up a a a lab in Seattle. It's called Ernst Light's Labs. They work together with a startup in San Francisco on certain software elements, which could make taking pictures with a smartphone even easier. Easier meaning getting better picture results. When you look into the picture results of the lights phone one and you shoot in raw. One of my guys uh shot a few weeks ago in Venice. Okay. He printed it out 40 by 60 centimeters and showed it to us and asked which camera is this? And we said, probably the Q. No, it was the Lightsphone One. Wow. Yeah. Okay. But uh you need uh Lightsphone one you need to shoot uh well it's DNG, uh we call it raw. Right. And suddenly you find out whoops this is a level above what you usually do when you have these tiny little elements and do computation in between. So we see there's still a lot of development. There will be always a restriction by physics because when you have a lens in this big size versus a small smartphone, uh there are restrictions, but we will help to sort of get somewhere there. And you might also hear very soon be uh it will be probably delivered in December for the lights from Japan, the so-called lights looks more I can't say at the moment. So we're looking definitely in this segment because it's a consumer camera. Everybody has it. And the sharing is a good thing, although the platforms are not always that great, but being able to share a picture formally you had to go and have it printed somewhere and then send it to your grandmother. And I think it's it it's a great time for photography. The only problem is the camera industry because they missed it |
| James Stacey | . What did they miss? The smartphone. From from the more traditional technology uh houses, not optical houses? The first smartphone it wasn't a |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | smartphone. The first phone with a camera built in was a Toshiba nineteen ninety-nine called Kamez. It was done for girls. Almost pocket sized. Yeah. Yeah. So it came from a totally different approach. Yeah. But it's there. It's in the in the in middle of the road, and it's the camera system where you start. And |
| James Stacey | we see this as a starting point. Well, I and I think that's a great place to end that. You know, I'm excited to see how the the watches come together in the next little while and certainly uh the latest announcements from the brand uh are are always uh hotly anticipated and and as we say watch this space. Absolutely. Well thank you so much for your time. |
| Dr. Andreas Kaufmann | It's been a real cheer being here. Enjoy Lights Park and the the German expression with old photographers gut licht have great light conditions. Amen. Thanks again. |