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An Episode Most British

Published on Mon, 25 Oct 2021 10:00:00 +0000

The watch podcast equivalent of a full English breakfast.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host James Stacy is joined by Robin Swithinbank, Logan Baker, and Cole Pennington to discuss major developments in the watch world. The primary focus is on Bremont's significant milestone: the launch of their ENG300 movement series, representing the brand's first step toward manufacturing movements from base materials in the UK. Robin Swithinbank, who toured Bremont's manufacturing facility, provides detailed insights into the movement's development, explaining that while based on a K1 caliber from Swiss company TH+ (formerly known for work with brands like Horage), Bremont has purchased the manufacturing IP and is gradually bringing production in-house. The movement features a 65-hour power reserve, silicon escapement, and represents a major investment in re-establishing British industrial watchmaking.

The discussion extends to the Longitude LE, a 300-piece limited edition watch that debuts the new movement. Available in 40mm cases in steel, white gold, and rose gold, the watch pays tribute to John Harrison's contributions to maritime navigation and incorporates brass from the Greenwich Observatory's meridian beam. The panel debates the watch's design choices, pricing implications, and whether introducing both a new movement and limited edition simultaneously was the right strategy. They compare Bremont's approach to other independent brands like Oris and Tudor, discussing how movement manufacturing affects pricing and market positioning.

The episode concludes with a spirited discussion of the latest James Bond film, "No Time to Die," featuring Daniel Craig's final performance as 007. The team rates it as a solid "four-star Bond" film, discussing its emotional depth, cinematography, and how it compares to other entries in the Craig era. They also touch on the Omega Seamaster featured in the film and debate the future direction of the franchise, with James humorously suggesting Ana de Armas should take over the series.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacy This episode of Hodinki Radio is proudly brought to you by Accutron and the SpaceView 2020 18 Karat Gold Limited Edition. With only 60 pieces being made, this is a collector's item for a game-changing brand, so stay tuned later in the show for more on Accutron's iconic space view timepiece or visit Accutronwatch.com. Hey, it's me, James Stacy. In this episode of Hodinky Radio, we'll focus on some of the biggest news and most interesting stories in the watch world. To put all of these pieces together, please welcome an A-plus collection of my co-workers from Hodinky. First up, this tall drink of water's fine words can be seen gracing not only the digital pages of Hodinki, but also GQ, the Financial Times, the New York Times, and more. He's a value contributor and an all-around solid guy, Robin Swiftinbank. Welcome to the show, man. How are you doing? James, that's a delicious introduction. Thank you very much. I try and have fun with it, but man, it's a treat to have you here and to even just to see your face on Zoom. Great to read it. Thanks, James. Next up, uh, you know him as the flow in the know, as his marvelous hair is matched by an incredible knowledge of watches and more. He's our beloved brand editor, Logan Baker. Logan, how we doing? Hey James. Hey Robin. And bringing up the rear of our patrol, we have the Iceman, aka Chill E P, our editor and frequent voice on the show, Cole Pennington. How you doing, Cole? That's kind of a weird intro, but I'm into it. I guess all right. Hey, good to be here. What's up, guys? A watch of some sort. Watching over the industry. So it it we have actually some some real news to report on today, thanks to uh Robin's kind of fine coverage of the latest kind of big news out of uh Braymont in the UK. That includes both uh a brand new movement, which is a huge story for the brand and the progress of the brand, and also uh another of their sort of time capsule limited editions. I'm not really sure what the shorthand term we should use for these watches are. They've been doing these for a decade now, maybe longer at this point, you know, where they make a limited edition watch that actually incorporates a little piece of a a famous Spitfire or uh an incredible boat or a code breaking machine, in this case uh connection to the uh Royal Observatory in uh Greenwich. Robin, you did a a really lovely job covering uh the new movement and uh and the watch. Uh let's start with the movement, because I think that's uh that's where most people are gonna have questions and and interest. So this is a a Braymont's kind of first foray into manufacturing a movement from base materials in the UK at their new building. It's based on a a known caliber for which they've bought the uh the IP and the rights to produce. then And they've made a significant uh number of modifications, kind of customizations and redesigns to the movement for their purposes. First time we're gonna see it is in the new longitude LE. Uh as far as specs go, we're looking into automatic movement., 35 hertz, 22 joules, 65 hour power reserve, a silicon escapement. I believe it's 25.6 millimeters wide, which is the same as most standardized ETA calibers, unless I'm off by my numbers there. And then I think Robin, you you've had a chance to actually see uh conceivably elements of this movement in person, whole movements, that sort of thing? Yeah,
Robin Swithinbank I have. Yeah, I was up there um uh just uh ten days ago now. And we're recording on the 20th of October. So it was about 10 days ago. And uh I was given a full tour of the wing of the Bremer Manufacturing and Technology Center. And yeah, I saw all I saw the watch. First of all, I saw the longitude watch uh with the movement in it. And I saw a lot of the machining as well. I saw a lot of the manufacturing. A lot of the parts that become, I said a lot of the parts, that five parts in that movement, which are being made at the wing. Um, they are the base plate and then four of the bridges. Um, they're not pretending that uh anything beyond that is is of their creation. Um they're pretending, of course as you've already mentioned, that uh the movement is is originally theirs. Uh they didn't uh create this movement. They don't uh own the original IP per se. They have bought the rights. They bought the IP to manufacture it. And that includes the manufacturing IP, I think it's important to say. There's quite a clear distinction here between just sort of buying an off-the-shelf blank canvas movement uh and uh and then uh and then producing it they're um they've actually bought the the the the they bought the ip to how it's manufactured and they're I think this is something that I that they were really keen to press home to me. And something that I've learned quite a lot about actually doing the story is about actually what it takes to build a movement and to build a movement from scratch beyond that. Um the guys at t a te plus who are uh the swiss company the swiss firm who uh originally created what was called the k1 movement uh they said uh when i spoke to them that there are in their estimation, 3,500 steps in creating a watch movement, which is why it's so incredibly difficult. And I think that's something that has to be emphasized as well. And those 35,000 steps to sort of from going from nothing to ending up with ENG 300 in your hand, uh our steps that Bremo are slowly, or steadily probably, I think they've done a lot of it quite quickly actually, uh, but they are steadily uh absorbing those into their own manufacturing setup. And at some point in the future, they weren't quite sure when they will essentially uh have all that they'll have the whole kit and caboodle under under their one roof, and uh they'll be able to sort of manage the whole process themselves, which still means using third-party suppliers, of course, and they're not for a lot, they're not by any any stretch of the imagination claiming they're about to be able to produce every part of a watch, nowhere near. Um, but uh this is a sort of a uh it's a slow and steady business, as as we know, having observed the watch industry for a long time, and I'm not sure they fully realized it themselves when they first started talking about making movements all those years ago. It is much harder than they realized. And that and they're they were sort of gloriously and joyfully prepared to admit that, that it was harder. It's been much hard, it is much harder than they thought it would be. And as we know, they've made one or two missteps along the way. But uh I think this this is a significant ch
James Stacy apter, significant moment in their history. Yeah, I you know, I would agree. And you know, with the with the brand's kind of continually stated goal of bringing watchmaking, an element of watchmaking back to the UK. I think this is c probably one of the biggest steps they've made since launching the brand in general. And to see them operating at this level, and then, you know, l like you said, Robin, it's not like they're they're not making the jewels, they're not making the hairspring, that sort of stuff. Like this uh this is a very common practice throughout the industry that suppliers help with things like screws and jewels and and and stuff, and then various levels of assembly are completed by various levels of company. Larger companies can do the from the raw material all the way up to fitting the strap, which I think takes you from T0 to T3. I've been learning a little bit about this from the kind of the same impetus that you had. And then others only do the the last stages, the the final stuff as it comes in many ways fully produced from a a given manufacturing source. In this case the source is actually Braymont as they're bringing more and more of that to bear. It's uh it's I think it's kind of a a big a big move for the brand. I'm really interested to see what how just what the movement's handling and performance is like, how it feels when you're winding the crown or changing the uh the date or uh you know eventually when we start to see complications, what what were those gonna feel like? What's the actual handling gonna be? 'Cause on a technical standpoint it just it it's kind of another movement, which it needs to be. You know, three and a half hertz isn't exactly wild or or extreme in any way. Uh sixty-five hour power reserve, not that crazy these days. Um all things that I think you need, especially if you're gonna try and convince people that some of your watches don't need the ETA movements they've relied on for so long. Uh but no, I I think it's uh an interesting development. And I I I think
Robin Swithinbank again to sort of uh to to give uh Bremon the credit that they're not suggesting that this is the world's most incredible caliber. You've outlined that the technical specifications, and there's nothing particularly earth-shattering about them, but there isn't really supposed to be. The point is much more that they, for the last 15 years, have been trying to uh instigate, re-instigate the British industrial, I think that's a really critical word here, the British industrial watchmaking industry. Um, you know, we have plenty of craftsmen in this country, Roger Smith being the example non-paré, of course, um and there are plenty of others beyond. But uh in terms of industrial watchmaking, producing thousands and thousands of components and thousands and thousands of movements, there's no one doing it in this country and hasn't been for 50 years. And this has always been their ambition, is to bring back something of British watchmaking on an industrial scale. And more than that, really, to sort of there's a really strong patriotic vein running through Bremont. And of course it, comes from its two founders. And they are passionate about British engineering, which is why they've partnered with so many different British institutions over the years who embody something of British engineering, whether that's the armed forces or some of their suppliers who do things like case arming in Cambridgeshire. So f for them, this this moment is much more about that than it is about having created a movement the like of which we've never seen, which as you've rightly pointed out, it'
James Stacy s not. Yeah, I I think uh their watches need sports movements as well. In in which case you wouldn't necessarily see some insane spec. Like these movements need to go into watches that people will wear in some scenarios in pretty tough uh environments. Yeah, and they
Robin Swithinbank claim they tested it in the Martin Baker ejector seat and that it passed. Um but of course as much of that some of that will be to do with the the the amount, the movement. Um which is absorbing all the impact. It's not really the movement will be absorbing some of it as we know, but uh but essentially that's about the packaging rather than the mov
James Stacy ement itself. Yeah. And uh uh Logan, uh bear or bull on uh on Braymont these days. What what do you think of the new movement in the news? Uh I'm I'm excited by
Logan Baker it. You know, I I wanted to kind of jump in and um say that I agree totally um with you, Robin, about kind of the industrial nature of it. I think that's a really important word to understand in the context of uh understanding what Bremon is trying to do here. You know, I think I think a lot of watch enthusiasts look at movement manufacturing and they're like, oh, why can't everyone be like Roger Smith? I mean, Roger Smith and Bremont are two entirely, entirely different things, you know, and they're both fantastic for what they are. And for Bremont to kind of go to this level and be as transparent as they are. Um, I mean, I really wanna applaud the transparency, uh, stating that they're you know sending the movements back to Switzerland for casing, like these are things that you're not going to see from every, you know, from a Swiss watch brand. What they've done here is really worth applauding because honesty is hard to find in any any business and to have it presented in such a clear, concise manner, which Robin, you know, you did an excellent job in that article. We were lucky to have that on Hodinkey. So you know at first glance, I I really like the look of the movement. I'm excited to see how the new um Robin, you might be able to help me here. Is it a new they're they're trying to develop a new chronometer um testing regime in Britain or is it a new yes called the uh the h1 timing standard yes and possibly h2 and at some point further down the line to tpc i'm i'm excited to see how that develops i think um a lot of brands do kind of interesting in-house timing standards that most watch enthusiasts aren't aware of. I mean, we all know JLC with a thousand hours test, Mont Blanc does 500 hours. I don't know how many people really kind of understand how much testing that is. I'm excited to see how Bremont evolves that and kind of brings that internal while having someone kind of on the outside monitor it. You know, there's a lot of news to digest here. Uh and I encourage people to kind of really sit with it. And, you know, I think as time goes, there's just going to be more and more to appreciate and then you just have to look at it and congratulate them. So all
James Stacy all good on on my end. Yeah, for sure. We're thrilled to have Accutron supporting yet another episode of Hodinky Radio. This week the timing couldn't be better as Accutron is celebrating a special anniversary the same day that this episode goes live. 2021 marks the 61st anniversary of Accutron, and in honor of their 60th birthday last year, the brand has launched the SpaceView 2020 18 Carat Gold Limited Edition. Limited to just 60 units cased exclusively in 18karat yellow gold, the SpaceView 2020 60th Anniversary Limited Edition is inspired by the open dial aesthetics of the 60s. Tucked inside that precious case, we find a detailed view of the world's first electrostatic movement in a watch, set against vibrant green accents that recall the look and feel of the original Accutron space view. If you happen to be in New York City on the day this episode drops, look up this evening and you'll see another reminder of this impressive milestone as the Empire State Building will be lit up all green in commemoration of Acutron's achievements. American watchmaking tradition and cutting-edge technology all wrapped up in a very limited creation, the SpaceView 2020 60th Anniversary Limited Edition marks a special chapter in Accutron's history. You can learn more in the show notes or by visiting AccutronWatch.com. A big thanks to Accutron for their continued support, and now back to the show. And I mean as far as they go versus uh the use of ETA, you know, Robin, I think I think I saw the same numbers in your story that uh Chris Reynolds, the brand's managing director had had said to me that you know they make roughly 10,000 watches a year and the eventual goal is to be able to do five thousand of them with the movement from this new ENG 300 series. I think I think eventual in in the sense the next year
Robin Swithinbank they by the end of 2022, um and, then beyond that to keep going. Um, I don't think there's any limit to their ambitions. Uh, that's certainly not something that Bremo have suffered from in the past. Um, so I suspect we'll uh we'll see uh further Bremon calibers uh in the future and that ultimately they'll get to a point where they're really not far off being a hundred percent uh manufacturer let's use that word a little
James Stacy bit loosely let's use that word cole how does the news kind of sit with you any anything jump to mind that we haven't already covered? Uh sort
Cole Pennington of. I come at it from a totally different well not totally different, but two things that struck me. One, I'm kind of an anglophile myself. I love the patriotic angle. Uh Robin, have you heard of a Bist Bister Heritage? Uh that that place. I I took a tour of that years ago and was like, yeah, you know, the Brits they still have it in them. It didn't end at World War II. And uh And well that was that was the machine. That's when the machine spun up and British manufacturing was, you know, at its height and so forth. And seeing that, so A, I like the patriotic angle. I like British manufacturing. B, the other thing that was interesting, we talk about the K1 movement. Uh, do you remember that piece I did on the Haraj Torbillon uh hands-on, James? You remember that? So that's the same company behind the K1. So you said, Oh, I want to see how it feels and so forth. And I can say that that that was a joy to use and very, very impressive operation. And I also like it took them finding the right partner. So I've I've been a cheerleader for both Haraj and the Plus and the Torbillon movement, the K-1 movement, and I like the British patriotic angle, uh the new renewed uh Braymont. So seeing these things come together, I'm I'm all about it. I think it's very cool and it it it's one of those things is the coming together of a few things and uh I'm rooting for everyone. England, the Queen, Braymont, and the Plus I done well at the
Logan Baker moment. So thank you for that. That's very kind of you. I know that's awesome to hear about the the Haraj uh Cole. I'm glad to hear that it uh handles well. Yeah it does. It really does. And I I suspect this will be the case with the
Robin Swithinbank Brayman of course. How many of you guys been out there? Have you been out to to visit um Orage and TH Plus. I've not, no, no. No, and neither do I. And I'm not I wasn't introducing that because I have, I've just be I but it I think it becomes quite an important stop actually. I think they're quite an interesting disruptive company who approach the whole business of movement making really quite differently to everyone else. Or at least let's say the establishment players. Um and uh their their founder or the guy who runs the company, guy called Andy Felsell, he's uh he's a forthright individual, let's say. And I spent an hour talking to him in preparation for this story and uh found him to have a very insightful way of looking at the Swiss watch industry and particularly the business of making movements. And I suspect TH plus, THE plus, the plus, as I heard you say this now called THE Plus. I suspect we'll hear a lot more of them in it over time. The uh their ambition, I think, is to encourage more people to take on the business and manufacturing movements that in particular want to supply Ebouche to a and other watch brand. They want uh companies like Bremon to take on the responsibility for re-establishing manufacturing facilities where perhaps they've uh not existed in a long time. Uh interestingly, I don't think they're terribly confident that a lot of people will pick it up. I think they feel Bremo is likely to be one of the lone examples, which I think again puts into context what Bremo have achieved here. And it's a that's a massively expensive undertaking. Oh, he reckoned that they'd sunk 50 million Swiss easily into failed movements to this point. So THE Plus is only two years old, I think, as a company, but it's the the companies behind it, and there are various, Momo Plus is one, Orage is another. They were founded in 2000 and it says in the story, 2008, 9, somewhere around there, I think, uh, in response to Nicholas Hayek's decision, or at least his announcement, that uh the Swatch Group was going to start withdrawing supply of its movements to its competitors and other brands around the industry. And they are disruptive and upstart and they are they failed a lot to get to where they are, but I think they finally feel they've got to a point where they've actually got a good product on their
James Stacy hand, or a series of products on their hand now. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see who uh to to think back on this conversation in in several years or or maybe lon Boxes of kind of partly made movements, you're actually just buying the metal and making it yourself, which is um uh you know an an an interesting thing to see any brand move towards in a manner where they talk about it. Because I feel like uh any almost any other brand, certainly any brand that you might place higher up the chain in watchmaking than Braymont would just say like we have a new movement and then say nothing more about it. And then uh brands below typically don't have the ability to have anything other than an off the shelf. Very rare scenarios where we've seen other things happen, you know, um Damasco and uh and such where you will see sometimes a smaller brand get a very special movement that isn't I just think it's a kind of an interesting move, especially for Braymont. And and where I'm most interested to see is when the movement, the ENG 300 series starts to make it to the core line, I I think the next big thing they factor will be what it does to their price point. Because depending on your viewpoint, I I think that they are they represent a a their own sort of value, but a good value. I own a couple of Braymonts and like them quite a bit, but they do get criticized for being kind of more expensive than other nicely made Eda or Selita powered Swiss watches. And and obviously this isn't a Swiss watch, but that's typically who they're compared against, whether it's an Auris or uh a Taghoy or a Brightling, uh whatever, could you can go on kind of adnocing them at that price point. I'm wondering like we can all remember that when Tudor went to their manufactured movement, which is you know a movement made in partnership with another company, they did so by basically blanket adding two hundred fifty dollars to the base price of any of their watches. And I don't know if you could possibly expect the same thing from from a Braymont. I I don't remember, do any of you remember what the price jump was like when Gnomos went from mostly alpha base calibers to the neomatic stuff? It was more it like it it doubled in some scenarios, didn't it? Yeah, it did. It
Robin Swithinbank more than doubled. And to add a little bit of colour, I think, um, or a little bit of knowledge as as such as it is, I think Bremer hoping that uh well they're intending, let's say, I think there's a lot of hope for Bremer, but actually there's some there' theres's some clear intention on this occasion that uh they will be adding a few hundred pounds, so what 500 bucks or something to the cost of one of their watches. So if they can deliver a fairly standard signal, an aircoat or something like that from their collection and do it for between, I think they're aiming for sort of three and a half to four thousand pounds, which will be what around five thousand bucks, I suspect. Um, that's that's not crazy money for that for that movement for what it is, and for the story that you're buying into. It's interesting, you know, you mentioned the whole business of some people saying it's a marketing brand and when you buy a Bremen watch you're investing in all their uh their marketing partnerships uh you know you're buying into perception of brand ultimately and and as we know we we do people choose to do that with all sorts of different brands and spend far, far larger sums of money investing in something that actually offers no greater quality or or um or uh expression of of IP. So um yeah, I I don't have a problem with that
Logan Baker personally. I just want to say that, you know, we saw this again,. Uh uh not to uh compare this with Horus again, but you know, when Oris came out with Caliber 400, we saw people complaining that, you know, their watches effectively doubled in price. Like, you know, I I I just wish people would instead of reacting to everything with negativity or with throwing doubt at everything. I mean, consider the fact that Oris is an independent company, Bremont is an independent company, Tudor is owned by Rolex, you know, like it's it's a very different ballgame. And um I wish people would kind of think about each of these companies places in um the market that uh that they work on and be you know enthusiastic that they're trying to offer something different to other collectors. You know, I mean, Orris has been very honest, straightforward about, you know, they're not going to move away from Edit and Slita. This is just another option. So they're opening their catalog up to a different level of collector, as well as potentially bringing, you know, the collectors that were with them at the $2,000 price range up. And I think we're going to see the same thing with Gremont, you know, the people that were with them at the $5,000 price range will stay with them at the $7,0
James Stacy 00 price range. And I I would also say that you know a big side of it is when there's an announcement, you just kind of you follow the tenor of the announcement in many ways, the movement will have to prove itself for years and years and years. It's a new movement. And and in many ways, even if it's a great movement, which by all data that we have it it it would appear to be, it has to function as a an alternative to a movement that's been around for a long time, that can get serviced anywhere, that is very reliable and simple to use and straightforward and all those things. Time we'll see how that kind of sorts out. But I I think if we're talking five hundred bucks, this is a an even better move for the brand. If they if they're able to manage eventually pushing towards five thousand and then beyond that and and only see that kind of a race to their price point. I think it puts um an extra sort of value, something a little bit special there. I like the longer power reserve. And you know, selfishly I'm just excited because this means we might see a new entry into the local jumping GMT functionality, of which there's a not exactly a glut of options out there that offer it. And with the brand previously being on EDA for any of their GMT uses that that's what you would end up with is you know about twenty eight ninety three or similar. What we can do at this point, I think, is move on to the new longitude LE. So like I did with the movement, I can give the the basic specs and I think Robin can probably help us fill in a few real life details. It's a 300-piece limited edition based on the work of John Harrison and what he did to help develop a way of measuring longitude while a boat was at sea. This is uh one of the finest moments in timekeeping's history. If you haven't read Dava Sobel's book, which is called Longitude, and then has a very long title after the colon that isn't important. It's called Longitude. Definitely worth reading. You can buzz through it in an afternoon. It's really nicely written. But Harrison is a hero of timekeeping and and you know, certainly his work weighed in at the uh Royal Observatory in Greenwich and the Longitude L E basically is a a forty millimeter limited edition. That's I think the first time they've ever done a forty. This is nor casu uh more normally a forty three millimeter. So forty millimeter uh in steel or white gold or rose gold that's 150, 75, and 75, respectively. And then on the case back there's a ring surrounding the movement that's actually made from a cut of brass uh from a beam at the observatory uh that marks the meridian line. How much of that did I get wrong, Robin? Thank you. What do you think of this? You you've got to see it in person.
Robin Swithinbank It di yes. I think the um goodness, I don't like the term DNA, but there really isn't one that's much better. But uh the sort of the DNA of the the Bremo limited historic limited editions is very present in this particular watch. Yeah. I I think I think people will of course be left to to draw their own conclusions about whether or not they like it and whether or not they like the sequence of watches. I think I I always sort of want to get away from what the watch is like in itself and closer towards why Bremore chose to introduce ENG300 in this particular model. Because the two stories in theory should have quite significant prominence for them. You know, they do one of these limited editions a year, where it incorporates, as you said, a historic artifact. And uh it's a big moment for them. And I would if I had been uh thinking strategically on their behalf, which I'm obviously not, and uh shouldn't assume to either, but uh I would have chosen to separate the two a little bit more. And I know that a new movement needs a new watch or needs an it needs a watch, but actually to use the example of Oris, actually, they put all the emphasis on their movement by putting it into the Aquist, which was an existing model. And I would have uh been tempted in that position to put the NG300 in something that was a little bit more standardized within their collection and to let it do the talking. Because I think the longitude, and I said this in in the piece, which we'll we're we're recording right in between the uh the the the two pieces going live but the second piece that goes up uh does pass comment on on that particular element and suggest that Bremov's future is much more closely linked to what's inside the the longitude than to the longitude itself. Uh which ultimately I think will become a footnote in the company's history, whereas ENG three hundred is is pretty much the fee rouge which is going to hold the thing together over the next who knows how long, decades, I suspect. Ye
Cole Pennington ah, Cole, did you get a chance to take a look at these? Not in the middle, but I did. I I read your article, Robin, which was excellent. Yeah, and I my my takeaway, my initial thing, I remember when I was a kid, and this is a totally other part of Braymont, but the uh the Greenwich Observatory and just English design and so forth, I found them charming. I think the I remember, yeah, going to the the Cuddy Sark, this uh tea clipper and then wandering over to the observatory and also, you know, plenty of reading, having done this job for a while, about British watch making tradition and so forth. And actually what w what I when I saw the watch I thought, ah, this does it justice. It it kinda has that classic English vibe and so forth. And then of course the backstory of why it's progressive and why it's interesting for the industry. But just face value. What does this watch look like and how un Braymont is it, but at the same time incredibly British, which is very much Braymont. It's so interesting to hear this from the perspective of
Robin Swithinbank an American. Um because of course for me the the cutie stark and uh the whole the Royal Observatory is one of those places we used to go on school trips to as a kid. And I've been there, I don't know how many times in my life. I recognize it's incredibly special and obviously it's a very important part of our heritage, but it it doesn't sort of excite me and it doesn't fill me with the same sense of distant nostalgia that perhaps it does for you. Imagine perhaps I don't know whether this is a fair equivalent at all, but uh just occurs to me that maybe if if there was a uh a watch with a part of the Empire State Building in it, I don't know how excited you guys would get by that. You'd get very excited by it. But there's something a little bit similar uh in in it for me, which uh which which is why perhaps I'm not as excited by the watch as I perhaps might be, and why I'
Cole Pennington m more excited by the movement than by the watch. And that's really interesting. I think this whole industry and everything we do every day has a lot to do with exoticizing and other culture's output, Grand Seiko and the Japanese-ness and and Braymont and the Englishness of it. So that's that's actually the first thing that comes to mind with me. But hearing you say that, that makes total sense. I don't want to throw you off the scent. I mean go go for
Robin Swithinbank it, enjoy it, embrace it. And fundamentally I'm very proud of it because I'm British and I think as I've made the point in the story as well. I I''mm proud of what Bremel have achieved just by virtue of being a fellow Brit. You know, no one else is really doing what they're doing. And I think it's fantastic as somebody who's as close to this industry as I am. I'm I'm extremely grateful to them for giving us this story. But there's just a little bit of a something about this limited edition, which is perhaps a little bit more run-of-the-ll for those of us who did the school trips than it is for probably anyone else in the wor
James Stacy ld, to be fair. Yeah, and I mean from a watch standpoint, this is also something that we we've seen from the brand so many times. I think it's great that it's a 40 millimeter version. I think it's awesome that it has the new movement. But in many ways, this is this follows the direct style of the codebreaker, which was kind of a a turn, not a big pivot or anything, but a turn in terms of the styling where they went a little bit more resplendent, a little bit more old world classical versus the earlier stuff, which is a little bit more military adjacent in its a styling and and and its connection back to history, whether it be you know P fifty ones or or supermarines or that sort of thing. But with this one we have the movement is the ENG three seven six, which is a big date at three o'clock and then subseconds at nine and then a power reserve indicator at uh just above six. And the power reserve indicator is this sort of red ball that actually uh ties back to something from the observatory. Robin, you've seen the the red ball in person, I assume? Uh uh yes, I assume I have. I
Robin Swithinbank must admit it's not something that I I don't think I've ever gone past at five to one when it's raised and then at one o'clock when it's dropped. But again again there's a lovely story there and I th I can appreciate why they've decided to uh to flip the uh the indicator around so that red means means full rather than empty. I think that's quite a nice touch really and uh pays homage as we love to say in this business uh to something that is indeed really quite historic and quite important. Yeah so
James Stacy we have the this red ball that drops at specifically at a at one o'clock to mark and I didn't realize that this is silly because I'm now going backwards in my logic. But we do the same thing on Canadian public radio where they have a tone at the top of the hour, you know, the three beeps and then the long beep, and on the start of the long beep, it's the start of noon or one or whichever. And I didn't realize that not only did Canadian Radio duh steal that from the BBC, but the BBC is basically operating a an audible version of the red ball. And I think all of that I like quite a bit. It it makes something as simple as a power reserve somehow a little bit more interesting and uh not only a little bit more Britishy, which is uh I think good for this watch, right? Yes, that's nice of uh I use frequ
Logan Baker ently that's very British. So I recently read um the new book uh About Time by David Rooney that just came out, you know, I think uh a month, six weeks or so ago. And uh he he's British and he devotes a lot of time to kind of de thevelopment of of time balls. And you know, for everyone listening at home or or whatever, um, these time balls in effect would drop at, you know, a certain period of time and it would be set up on top of a church or a building or something along those lines so that ships could see it and uh sink their marine chronometers to that exact time that comes from the observatory. And the book, which I I highly recommend that I'm gonna be doing a story on it uh later on also, you know, goes deep into kind of the BBC's quest for uh hunting down the the woman that would be the the voice of kind of the if you call them and uh they'll read the time to you or what or whatever. Yeah. And uh the book also talks about uh you know John Harrison and the setup of uh GMT time and how Paris has tried to steal GMT uh time, like being being the center of it a couple different times. Um, so all this is really fresh in my mind. And it's it's really interesting to see it all kind of come to life. Uh I did have one question on the the big date, Robin. Is that a double disk window? So it is. Yeah. Okay. So that's really cool. I mean, that's a level of interesting engineering in itself. You know, most of the time, uh, not all the time, but when you see kind of date windows, whether they're big or small, uh you have a single date wheel that kind of reads the time. But you know, a few brands, Glushute Original, maybe Longa, I think Longa, I'm not quite sure, use a double date disk approach where there's kind of two interlocking rings that uh have to be kind of synced together to show kind of the passing time. And it's a fun kind of bit of kinetic action to see that time change at midnight uh because you see both both disks change and I also love the kind of asymmetry of the nine o'clock seconds. It's a co
James Stacy ol watch. Yeah, no, I think it's a handsome thing for sure. A a solid design.
Robin Swithinbank I was surprised it doesn't have a GNT function. Uh again, and just sort of just to pick uh not my goodness, I'm nitpicking perhaps. I don't want to overshadow the fact that the what's behind this is a remarkable achievement, but uh a longitude watch for me uh might have had a GMT function. Uh
James Stacy I'm just gonna throw that out there. Yep, I don't I don't think that's an unfair point. Um but my guess is that you know GMTs are a thing and they're a thing for Braymont and they're definitely a pretty hot complication. My guess is there they'll be a a pretty big launch when they when they put a GMT module. I'm not sure that this is necessarily modular in a stacking way. A lot of what was explained to me said like the movement was kind of designed from the ground up to be sort of swapped in and out various elements so that you're not just increasing the thickness as you put more uh features into it. But I guess time will tell for that one. You know, guys, I think that's probably all the Braymont that I need, but I don't think I'm quite done with uh, you know, great stuff out of the UK. Uh have any have any of you seen uh the new bond yet? Yes, sir. I have seen the new bond, yes. Of course. Yeah, of course. Oh, okay. So we've all we've all seen it. Okay, then then this is perfect. I wasn't sure. I put it in the show notes. Uh you know, no spoilers, none of that kind of stuff. Uh but what what did you guys think? You know, this is Craig's last one, the twenty-fifth bond. Uh I I think it dealt with themes that are very uncommon to the bond world. Well I hadn't expected a cross-dressing bond. Wait, did I miss a part of the movie? No, I
Robin Swithinbank thought Yeah. Did you stay for the post credits? No spoilers, you're right. No spoilers. Um yeah, it's it's uh it's uh it's a it's a good film. I it got five star reviews across the board over here. I think Daniel Craig is pretty popular. I think British press were pretty desperate for this film to finally arrive after the many, many delays. But I don't think it's a five star film, to be perfectly honest with you. It's probably a four star bond, but I
James Stacy 'm not sure it's a five star film. I I think I would agree with that. I think it could I think it could be a four star bond. I didn't think it was a great movie. I don't even know in in my mind, I'm not even sure it crested um Skyfall for me. You know, I think Casino Royale and Skyfall for for Craig were kind of two hot points where we got one that kind of introduced him and was very much like a core James Bond thriller and and was tight and had a great theater aspect to it and and all that. And then with Skyfall they went really big and made a big action movie. And I I think that was also super good and a big fan of uh the director and cinematographer team on that one. You know, I I I said this on um on another podcast recently. I just you know I think it it it might be something where I need to see it again. It's so weird to see uh movie in the theaters after uh after so long not being around that many people or in a public space that has a roof and four walls and the rest of it. And I I don't know how that may have weighed into like my general level of attention and and the rest of it, but I I think with any of these, you need to see 'em more than once, which isn't really a struggle. It's certainly a a fun and action packed sort of movie, isn't it? It depends what you want your bond to
Robin Swithinbank be, doesn't it? I think if you want your bond to be Fleming's Bond and you want it to be a blunt instrument, then uh although Daniel Craig has had plenty of that over the years, I think in this latest installation of the of the franchise, he is he's part blunt instrument and he's partly big softy. And I think that's gonna that takes a little bit of getting used to, really. I mean, yes, I could understand why he might have loved Leia Sedu since he first laid
James Stacy Yeah, it it was a a weird level of emotional availability in Bond for this one. It was he kind of had it on the sleeve, regardless of the emotion, uh which, is kind of a different you know, so much of I think his performance for the last several movies has been characterized by this sort of I'm I'm just fighting back what how much anger's kind of inside me most of the time, and and if I can remain kind of restrained and buttoned down, I'll do it just as long as I have to and then everyone else is gonna get hurt. Uh and it was kind of a different a different speed on this one. Cole, uh where where'd you land on this versus some of the others? 'Cause you're you're a Bond fan too. Uh like beyond Craig. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cole Pennington Oh yeah. Um I believe it or not, I'm a Brassen fan, really, first and foremost, but we don't have to get into that. I know we'll get I'll get stuck for that. But topic for another podcast. Uh yeah, I I thoroughly enjoyed it. One thing, yes, there's the emotional storytelling narrative arcs. We you guys can can talk about that. I will talk about the typical okay Bond's fashion, his choice of cars, the gadgets and so forth. The only thing that I didn't necessarily like is that this movie didn't really bring anything new to the table except one sweater. I think one sweater is new that that really caught me. But car-wise, gadget-wise, and I don't we can't spoil anything, but there was no everything that we know already appeared in this this film. And there wasn't any debut of anything that made me say, Oh wow, oh my god, or I gotta go Google this this
James Stacy that Yeah, he's he's not driving a uh D B twelve. No. He's not uh you know, or or even a uh a D B that they're not gonna make like they did with the ten. Uh you know, it's it's a watch that we've known since I want to say December of eighteen nineteen? December of nineteen. I I would have I I had a chance with it. I I love this watch, but I also it's one of these watches I can't fully explain why I like it as much as I do. You know, the because it breaks some of the rules that I I typically have with the tan loom and and the HEV valve, but all of it works really well. And then there's something real special about that uh bracelet if you've had a chance to size it and have it on your wrist. That's a really titanium mesh on uh on a Seamaster. And then I think to finally kind of finish the circle and see it in the film. And it's pretty prominently shot in the film a couple times, which which I liked quite a bit. It looks so tactical, especially for the third act of that movie. That is true
Cole Pennington . And then the crazy level of campiness that it's framed by too is also pretty funny. Specifically when it comes to the watch in the movie, and you'll see what I mean when when you when you watch the movie. But that took me back to Brosnan Earnth stuff, which I was all about, you know.
Robin Swithinbank Well I'm gonna jump on what Cole said about Bears Brosnan. I think he's an underrated Bond. I just think he was in some terrible films. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. I don't know how you feel, Cole, about uh I mean Diana of the Day is an atrocious film. At least the the f the first hour of it's pretty solid and then it gets absolutely insane when there's all cars and surfing down the surfing. Oh, thank you, thank you. I appreciate that. I mean Brosnan was my bond in the sense that I I was sixteen, I think, when Goldeneye came out. And so as I sort of matured into a fully fledged more or less a man uh he was he was the bond that I looked to he was the new bond he was the exciting bond and he had he was debonair and and and he had uh he had a modernity about him which, I think I aspired to. And I I don't think I'll ever lose that. He'll always have a special place in my heart
Cole Pennington as a result, but I do wish that they made some better films with him. Same. I think I'm I'm probably more like Daniel Craig, holding back my emotions, this and that. So maybe that's why I liked Pierce Brassen. That he was suave and handsome and kinda, you know, he was showy. But yeah, I will say the new film, excellent. If we're gonna give it a star rating, James, you said four. I think you both said four. A four bond. A four bond. I'll say same. Four is across the board so far
Logan Baker . Look, it's not gonna be added to the Criterion collection anytime soon. Um but as a blockbuster action film, you know it,'s uh I I thought it was pretty fantastic. I I thoroughly enjoyed it. Is it better than Casino Royale? No. Is it as good as Skyfall? I would say so. Um I thought the cinematography was good. Uh Deacons was on Skyfall. Is that right, James? Yep. Yeah. I thought the cinematography in this one was nearly as good, which is um, you know, saying something I don't know. I I really enjoyed and I think one thing that one point of comparison between the Bros andnan the Craig Bonds that gets repeated often, but is worth mentioning here is that you know, you go back to 2002, 2003, 2004, James Bond was actively losing to, you know, um, Mission Impossible to Jason Bourne. The the audiences were leaving the the franchise. You know, there's always going to be the diehards, but Daniel Craig really relit the passion for many. I I grew up with the Daniel Craig Bond uh so you know, it it has a special place in my heart and I I do like the Brasnan Era ones for what they are. I love campy genre films, but you know, I think Bond is bigger than genre. I think uh it it is cinema at the the end of the day. It is a film that is worthy of discussion rather than kind of to be dismissed. And I I think if you compare No Time to Die to any of the recent entrants in the Mission Impossible franchise or in I don't know, do they still make the Bourne movies? I I'm not sure. But you know, I I I think it's head like so much higher than those movies. And I think that's a big win for Eon Productions, for the broccolies, for Jeff Bezos and Amazon now that they own the IP. You know, I I I I think that's a good way to look at it. But I I I thoroughly enjoyed it. I would say four out of five. I think on my letterbox I rated it like three and a half out of five, but that rounds up to four.
James Stacy So yeah, for my money, if we're going for a a comparison to uh Mission Impossible, which I think is actually probably pretty apt, I think those movies hit a similar tone these days. I really adore Fallout, that bathroom fight scene, that's a that's a full win for me. Uh and and I've I've a really enjoyable movie all around. But you know, when when it comes to the Bond stuff, I I it's interesting because I guess this is the question everybody's asking, but like where does it go from here? Any anyone else want to throw the vote in for me and they just give the whole franchise to Anna De Armist and we just go go that route? We see a uh we do f four or five episodes of her as a a CI a weirdly happy CIA assassin. Love it. That's it. I would have liked I would have liked way more of of her and her character in that. I I that was one of the most like kind of fun parts of the film. I would have liked a lot more of her in there, but I I I don't think she quite lent the level of gravity that they wanted for uh for maybe later parts of the film. Well, speaking of coming back, I'd love to have all three of you guys back on a future episode, but for now I think we can probably call it. Thank you so much for being on the show, Robin and uh Logan and Cole. This has been gre.at. Massive pleasure Thank you for having me on. And if you've been listening to this episode and enjoying the show, please tell a friend, leave a review, do all that kind of stuff. Otherwise, uh hit the show notes for all the details. Below the show notes, leave a comment if you like. And uh otherwise, we'll catch you in about a week's time.