The Zenith of Smartwatches?¶
Published on Mon, 20 Sep 2021 12:13:31 +0000
Jack dreams of a green baby. Thanks, Frank.
Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host James Stacey is joined by Editor-in-Chief Jack Forster and Danny Milton to discuss recent watch news and releases. The conversation begins with an extensive discussion of the Apple Watch Series 7, where Jack—known as "Apple Watch guy" in the watch community—defends the smartwatch against critics who claim it's "not a watch." The panel explores the phenomenon of double-wristing (wearing both a mechanical watch and an Apple Watch simultaneously) and debates whether the Apple Watch deserves recognition alongside traditional timepieces.
The discussion then shifts to Danny's recent "A Week on the Wrist" review of the Zenith Chrono Master Original El Primero, a modern iteration of the classic 1969 A386. Danny shares behind-the-scenes stories from the video shoot, including driving a 1966 Ford Mustang in 100-degree heat without air conditioning, only to have the vintage car overheat mid-shoot. The panel discusses why Zenith doesn't receive the same recognition as Rolex or Omega despite the El Primero's historical significance, and debates the merits of the watch's distinctive 4:30 date window placement.
The episode wraps with coverage of watch spotting at the Met Gala, where Jimmy Fallon wore a vintage 1972 Omega Speedmaster Mark II and actor Aldous Hodge (a friend of the show and trained watchmaker) impressed with a Greubel Forsey Double Tourbillon. Finally, the hosts discuss Audemars Piguet's recent releases, particularly a US-only titanium Royal Oak Perpetual Calendar that James finds especially compelling, praising the combination of high complications in AP's iconic sporty case.
Links¶
Transcript¶
| Speaker | |
|---|---|
| James Stacey | From a look at a modern take on one of the original smartwatches, that's an automatic chronograph, to an actual new smartwatch with far reaching implications and some American only titanium that has me wishing the currency conversion to C A D was in my buying favor. This past week has had plenty of great watch news, and you know what? We're here for it. Give me that theme so we can get to the goods. It's Odinkey Radio and I'm James Stacey. Today we're chatting on the latest from the lineage of the Apple Watch, Danny's recent spin with a classically minded Zenith chronograph, and the latest drops from AP and you know whatever else we can cram into the next hour or so. To go over it all with me, please welcome my panel of esteemed colleagues. First up, he's the Hodinky Renaissance man, a wealth of surprises, delights, and no small measure of mystery, it's our fave brave EIC Jack Forster. How you doing? Doing great, thanks James. And rounding out this disparate triptych, it's the Watch Spotter Extraordinaire, the Space Jam Whisperer, and our Watching Movies Maven, Danny Milton, how we doing Danny? We're doing well. I will never ever ever lose the space jam moniker it seems. Well you know give me some time. I I have to write a different intro every time we do an episode. Uh and and I try and keep 'em kind of flowery. So I'll I'll I mean I ran out of interest with space jam some twenty years ago, but uh you know w you and I don't live on the same space jam plane. I'd say that's true. So it this was kind of uh an exciting week for watches and and for kind of watch enthusiasm. I think we'll start in in sort of a no man's land from my standpoint, and that's with the new Apple Watch. You know, I uh I'm an Apple user, I have an Apple phone, an iPhone, I I recording this on a MacBook, but I've never really been an Apple Watch guy, you know, been a Garmin user for a really long time. But uh Jack, you know, the the Apple Watch is actually something that even in my mind, even if you hadn't written the coverage of the new series 7, it's a watch that I kind of attribute to you because you're kind of one of the few like um big voices and and authorities in the in the watch space that seems to have a a genuine usable appreciation for this watch that doesn't come with any caveats. It always seems like if you have a smartwatch and that's what you really like to wear sometimes, you make excuses for it. Where do you stand on on the Apple Watch and what do you think of the seven? You know, um well well first of |
| Jack Forster | all I think that uh it's kind of hilarious that uh just as Danny will always be Space Jam guy, I'm probably always gonna be Apple Watch guy, at least to a certain extent, for precisely the reasons that you've outlined. I mean I don't know James. You know that's it's it's been out um the Apple Watch has been out in one No. And um and like everything else that uh you know comes out on the technology world the first iteration I think had some obvious um you know rough corners that needed to be rounded off um you know no pun intended about the case design. And that's kind of what Apple's been doing. You know, it's since the series one came out. It's really been about evolution rather than revolution in a lot of respects. You know, with Series 6, the only really new new thing we got, I think, was the um uh the blood oxygen sensor, uh the VO2 Max sensor. But the user interface continues to improve. And you know, now with the series 7, what we have is something that it doesn't sound like a major difference on paper, but I think it's probably going to make a big difference to the user experience. The uh the screen's quite a bit larger now. Uh there's room for 50% more text. Apple's tweaked the thickness and geometry of the crystal so that it's more shatterproof. And uh the case is now officially uh dustproof as well as having the same water resistance as the series uh as the series six. So uh I think that it's not you know, it's um gonna be easier to use because there's more screen real estate, easier to look at. And but it's you know, it is true that one of the things I said on the story was that you really do have to kind of wear the Apple Watch every day to kind of get what it has to give um as an occasional piece to sort of have in the rotation, it doesn't really you know it doesn't really offer that much. Um and it's I don't think that it really feels like something that is intended to be a workouts only watch either, although you can certainly use it that uh you know for that. You know, it wants to be part of your daily life. And uh that means if you're a watch enthusiast, it means double wristing or um not wearing a mechanical watch at all if you're uncomfortable with double wristing. Uh which |
| James Stacey | is uh which is not everybody's cup of tea. Right. Yeah. I you know I came I came to smart watches like I said through Garmin and and I do agree that you get the most out of these when they become your kind of only watch in many ways, or or at least get that prime real estate. I typically wear one more for almost like a a modern tool watch. So if I'm going running or biking or diving or whatever, that's when I would I would typically grab it. And otherwise I typically only grab the a a smartwchat, the garment or whatever, like when when I know my work schedule is so busy that I need an assistant to keep me on the calendars and the the replies and the rest of it. So it's it is handy when you're traveling or or when you just have a really busy scene. You know, I I I had always kind of taken to wearing them w when we were covering things at weird time zones, uh simply 'cause you weren't gonna ever miss a message if it was buzzing at you from multiple devices. Uh Danny, are you in any interest in the smartwatch world, Apple Watch experience, any of that kind of stuff, or is it a a kind of like nice but not needed for you? I've been in the |
| Danny Milton | Apple ecosystem since probably 2003, firmly, and yet somehow I've never really been interested in the Apple Watch, maybe because I'm afraid that I might like it too much. It's gonna be too handy. I think so. I mean I had a funny conversation recently with somebody who doesn't have one is thinking of getting one and and the rationale was it's just way easier than checking my phone. Which is always a f it's a f it was a funny thing because generally speaking the whole argument against watches for people, mechanical watches, is while I just check my phone to tell the time. So it it's it's almost like bizarre now we're going from I check my phone to tell the time to that's a little bit too much. I'd rather just check my wrist to check everything. And I get it. I just um I'm afraid something is gonna sort of take the mechanical objects |
| James Stacey | off my wrist. There might be an interesting story in that idea of like I've been afraid to try an Apple Watch or smartwatch and I gave it a month and this is what I've come back. And as long as it's not a resignation letter, like, all right, well I don't need to do watches anymore. This is the this is actually peak watch and just most of you don't get it. Um yeah, I th they they can be super handy. Who will rise up and become Mr. Space Jam if Danny leaves us for smart watches |
| Jack Forster | ? I will definitely have a Space Jam Apple |
| James Stacey | watch face, that's for sure. Oh, there you go. Well, I mean, hey, face is covered, right? You gotta you gotta you gotta mix and match all your interests, keep them together. Uh you know, Jack brought up another topic that I think is an interesting thing because I've even seen it outside of the mechanical plus an Apple Watch or smartwatch. It's this idea of double wristing. And I think I to be honest, the only person I've ever seen pull it off is Jack. So I think we might actually have the kind of preeminent double wrister in the space here. Jack, do you get any heat for wearing both? Like, because you've got an Apple Watch, I I can't tell your camera might be reversed, but I I think that's on your left hand. Yeah. Um and then uh do you typically wear the the Apple Watch on your left and then if you've decided to go with both it's the m mechanical watch on the on the right? Actually um I'm not wearing a mechanical watch right now |
| Jack Forster | just because I've been sitting at my desk for a couple of hours at this point and often I don't wear a mechanical watch, especially on a bracelet when I'm working from home because the bracelet tends to bang against the desktop or bang against my uh keyboard. So even if I'm only wearing a mechanical watch, a lot of the time I actually use it as a desk clock when I'm you know typing, which is what I do for a living apparent apparently. Um but yeah I usually wear I usually I wear the Apple Watch on my right wrist and a mechanical watch on the left wrist. It just feels more natural to me, although I have seen people do it the other way around. Um it's funny, you know, nobody really gives me a hard time about it. There were I mean there were some people, you know, very early on when we started covering the Apple Watch and when I s well when I started conspicuously double wristing Um yeah, there were people who gave me flack about it. You know, it was was sort of seen as a I don't know, some sort of basic betrayal of the fundamental tenets of watch enthusiasm. But I I mean I've seen people with super, super high end collections doing the same thing. |
| James Stacey | I've experienced that a little bit into my 30s and and and uh yeah I I think there's I think there's something to be said for I don't really care what I care what you think about what I wear at all |
| Jack Forster | . Yeah I actually am working out a fairly long, long dra,wn out story. I won't I won't give away the title or too much uh you know of what it says 'cause it's I don't know it's it's one of those think pieces that people are are either gonna uh sit through or not. But it it is basically about kind of getting to a point where you really just don't care what other people think. And I have I have the luxury of feeling that way. And it's partly from just decades of exposure to watch enthusiasts, watch enthusiasm, watch collecting and all that jazz. end up you know liking what you like for your own reasons and to heck with what anybody else thinks just as a you know I mean it's I think it just happens naturally. Speaking of rounding off rough rough edges. My new nickname on YouTube is nerd. That's a good one. So let's be f |
| James Stacey | air, that's pretty tame for YouTube. That's extreme tame for YouTube. I'll take it. I mean the thing is is like if people were simply calling you by your name, that would be better than nerd. Sure. But anything I've been called on YouTube that wasn't my actual given name is way worse than nerd for sure. Uh you know, the funny thing is is is I think I think there is some some sort of crowd mentality to the perspective surrounding smartwatches. And and while my gut reaction is always a Dan Harmon esque your booze mean nothing to me. I've seen what makes you cheer. That's a great way to put it. We saw it on the comments for the Apple Seven post. People saying that it's not a watch. Where do you where do you guys land on this? I I'm happy to weigh in, uh but I I would love to know where where you guys land. Is is the Apple Watch a watch in anything more than the way that Apple calls it a watch |
| Jack Forster | ? You know, I mean uh it's uh it's a way of drawing a line in the sand that kind of helps you define who you are. And and you know enthusiast communities are like this, right guys? I mean you know you we define ourselves as much by what we reject as by what b by what we love. So I mean it's it's it's look, obviously it's a time telling device that does other things and also sits on your wrist. And if the Apple Watch is not a watch, then you know, neither is a multifunction uh uh G Shock or a Garmin or you know or what have you. And we're perfectly comfortable with calling those watches. So So uh y I think it has more to do with um defining yourself by what and you know there's there's nothing wrong per se with this. This is this is what enthusiast communities do, as I said, but I I think that uh it is even the people who say it, I think that if you had them alone in a room and uh not in the comments and uh you know plied them with uh a couple of whiskies or whatever their beverage of choices, they'd probably they probably would admit that it's not a particularly meaningful distinction definitionally. It doesn't say anything about what the Apple Watch is or what it does or doesn't do. What it does do is say I don't like the Apple Watch and it represents everything that I reject when I |
| Danny Milton | accept mechanical watches. I think it stems from the same fear that I touched on before. It's just a fear of acceptance of that because there are G Shocks that read text messages from your phone via Bluetooth. I mean, and those are unquestionably watches to the same people that are calling the Apple Watch not a watch. Right. Um I think it's clear that the Apple Watch has taken a sizable portion of the watch market, if not like the majority of it at this point. And that the way that it's risen so quickly, I think just has people, you know, backpedaling and not knowing exactly what to do about it, especially enthusiasts like myself, who are afraid that I'll like it too much. I mean that's just that's a genu |
| James Stacey | ine fear. Yeah, I I think there's a lot of that in we see it in the in the you know, my my other big obsession is cars, which um isn't necessarily shared by the two of you at a really high level, I don't think. So we don't have to go too deep, but you see this with people who like cars that really only an enthusiast could love things that are difficult to drive and loud and smelly and dirty and break all the time, versus a Tesla. And they're like, well, but that you know, not only does that not even have a motor and burn fossil fuels or whatever, like you know, old dinosaur juice, but like it doesn't have the same sort of soul. And I think maybe that's what people are pointing out when they say the Apple Watch isn't a watch. And I don't buy it because in my opinion, you you wear it on your wrist and its primary thing that it does is tell you the time. In my mind, that's a watch. But I do understand that, you know, this is something where there'll definitely be people listening to this episode that are kind of like, why are you guys talking for nine minutes about the Apple Watch. And and But let's be let's be clear, we cover the watch industry and this is arguably the biggest |
| Jack Forster | watch in the world. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um but to your point, James, about cars that are uh you know troublesome to expensive and troublesome to own, troublesome and difficult to drive, and are sort of a rolling advertisement for uh all of the negative effects of um fossil fuels on the environment. You know, there's uh there's there's a uh an essay by w I I'm giving away the whole story. There's an essay by uh William Gibson from I think around right around 2000 that talks about that this exactly this idea, but you know, in the context of mechanical watches, and I I quote it in the story that I'm um, you know, broadly hinting about. And uh the he talks about something that he calls the Tamagotchi gesture. And you know, Tamagotchis were those little um L C D screen toys that you know you you had to yeah, you had to take care of a of a virtual pet or it would die on you. And uh I just bought two of them. They're back. Are they back? Really? Oh |
| James Stacey | . Yeah my, my kid kids have both got 'em. Oh wow. Are they wrist wearable? No. No. And they don't have a clock per se. They have a the animal nobody's man, we're talking about if if we're dividing the audience with Apple Watch now that we're into Tamagotchi. Technically there's a clock that the animal follows so it knows when to go to bed or wake up. Right. And you can adjust that clock so that it's not bothering your kid when they're supposed to be sleeping or doing something else. Gotcha. But no, it's not it's its primary function is a tiny digital animal that you care for. Yeah, so to just sort of like put a bow on it. You know, |
| Jack Forster | his his idea was exactly the same point that you just made, which is that uh you know part of the attraction with mechanical watches, especially vintage ones, is that they require some care and thought uh in ownership. But I think there's something to that. Also there's like yeah, I feel like we kind of answered this already, but uh have either of you guys ever tried double wristing for any length of time? |
| Danny Milton | Danny, it doesn't sound like you have. I mean I wear a digital Timex for fitness purposes, but I've never had the need to double wrist that watch with a watch of mine. Though I have seen people single wrist double watch by putting a digital watch on the underside of like a a NATO someho |
| James Stacey | It's kind of like that mom, I want this meme and no, we've got this at home. It's the the brightling with the UTC module on the strap and you're like, no, we have brightling at home and it's a it's your watch with a timex grafted onto the bottom of it. |
| Jack Forster | Aaron Powell Yeah, the industry experimented with the whole idea of smart straps for a while. I mean, you know, some fairly major you know large footprint luxury brands, but they don't se |
| James Stacey | em to have gone anywhere. No, I think people like to change their straps. And I think that the fitness tracking thing, the price dropped so quickly, so much faster than you would expect technology pricing to drop. Where suddenly, you know, we we were paying a certain amount for Fitbits, and then you're paying a certain amount for the next product, and then the Apple Watch came out at at a at a price that people were really comfortable with and it made this whole market kind of bottom out where you could buy a Jiao Mi Mee Band for 35 bucks, and not only did it tell you the time and vibrate when you got messages, but it did the step counting and the rest of it. And now you've got, you know, talk about a saturated market, the the fitness tracker. But I think that's the only time where where I've double wristd isown I've worn a fitness tracker on one wrist and a watch on the other. And then I've had scenarios where I was traveling and I didn't want anything in a bag or a pocket and I had more than one watch on me and I slipped it on on and, you know, kept it under a cuff, that sort of thing, but not with any um like day to day intent, no. You know what I found the uh App |
| Jack Forster | le Watch really, really useful was at trade shows. You know, because uh I can imagine you know you have half an hour for an appointment and unless you can I don't know what's what's the dungeons and dragons equivalent of teleportation. Unless you can cast a blink spell or something, you're not going to get instantaneously from one appointment to the next. So by the end of the day, you know, especially running around someplace like Basel World. Remember Basel World? No. You know, where it there could literally be half a mile between one appointment and the next. You would always end up running late. And uh just getting reminders on the watch was actually super super useful for staying for staying on time and on schedule |
| James Stacey | . Yeah, my my thing was always just to stay near Steven. He was the he was just he had it. Yeah. He knew all the pieces and I I just oh Steven's moving. I gotta move. I'll talk to you later. Two steps behind Steven is how I didn't miss Baza World appointments. Right, right. Keep it easy. Uh yeah, man, trade shows. R.I.P. back someday soon. I hope so. Yeah, Danny, we got we gotta get you out there and and I gotta get somewhere. You gotta have the fun of the twenty hour days and the endless ramblings at night when you're trying to write your third piece and everybody's kind of lost their mind and I've had too much whiskey and you know the normal. That's what I'm here for. But yeah, that's uh some someday we'll get back to it. But uh Yeah, so I you know I mean the the Apple Watch is the Apple Watch and and now we have another version and like you said, Jack that, kind of uh it's more of an evolution than a revolution. There were r there was a lot of rumors that they were gonna change the in like the whole case structure was gonna be more like the current iPhone and they didn't go that way. You know, it's a more of a massaging of the dimensions of the various elements and then I I saw it looked like the edge of the screen now kind of curves. Yeah. Along the so it looks like a little bit more like a modern smartphone pickup. But you know, Jack, it I don't think anyone or at least you I don't think we've seen these in person. Are you planning to get one in and give it a run? Oh yeah, absolutely. Do you upgrade to the new one when it's available |
| Jack Forster | ? Yeah, I mean uh not every iteration, but uh it's it's kind of a fun thing and an inex and not a relatively expensive thing to came up with. I mean, you know, $399 amortized over you know every couple of years is uh it's probably less than my mechanical watch's cost. Actually it's probably a lot less than my mechan |
| James Stacey | ical watches cost. Significantly less than mechanical watch budgets for sure. Aaron Powell Speaking of somewhat more expensive mechanical watches, Danny, you recently did uh one of our premium products, the the A Week on a Wrist series with uh a Zenith chronograph. You want to tell us about that and and how it went? Yeah, I did a week on the |
| Danny Milton | wrist with the Zenith Chrono Master Original, the El Primero, with the classic tri-color, you know, aesthetic that everybody knows that watch to be. It's basically a modern iteration of the classic A386 watch from 1969. This is a watch that I've always loved from afar, any of the sort of El Primero-esque watches that Zenith has iterated on over the last I don't know, two or so decades. And I think Cole wrote the intro piece back in June when it was released, and just knowing that a thirty eight millimeter uh zenith in that kind of classic look was out there was really intriguing. And I kinda jumped at the chance to be able to get it in and play around with it. And yeah, it was uh what we did was we took it into classic car, a 1966 Ford Mustang, trying to pair it with something of the era of the original A386. So that watch was from 69, close enough with 66. We tried we tried to find a car from 1969 for all those out there who don't know how hard it is to produce a video uh of uh this magnitude. I know these are short videos, but there's a lot that goes into them. Things happen. Uh such as the morning that you want to pick up said car from nineteen sixty nine that it just starts leaking oil and uh you can't drive it. Uh 'cause it's completely out of commission, needs to go see a mechanic. So you scramble to find another car within two hours. What was the car that had to be replaced? It was a Mercedes. I would need to consult which exactly Mercedes it was. We were trying to find a BMW from the era. Another fun fact: myself, Mr. Milton cannot drive stick. So we were looking for classic cars that were automatic, which was also like shrinking the pool of available automobiles that we could draw from. T |
| Jack Forster | rue. Yep. I feel like admitting that you uh drove a vintage car that had an automatic transmission on Hudinki Radio is kind of like admitting that you double |
| Danny Milton | I know. It is off-brand, but also it's it was on to me it was a little bit on brand for the watch because it was like this classic iteration that had such like modern capability to it. So for me having a classic car with an automatic transmission was kind of similar to that in a lot of ways. That |
| James Stacey | 's a fair point. Yeah we should get you into a a a stick car. Maybe Cole can give you give you a lesson around a racetrack somewhere. It is fun. But it is, I guess I don't know what you know. This is again off topic. I have no idea what the take rate in 66 was on a Mustang between automatic and manual. My guess is the number might be kind of surprising. There might have been quite a few automatics, but uh yeah, so the video I thought was excellent. And you've got a nine eleven in the background for the kind of two camera segments. I wanted to do a little bit of like behind the scenes because I think, you know we've probably done fifty plus a week on the wrist, probably more with video and stuff, right? What goes into the you know nine, |
| Danny Milton | ten minutes of video? A lot. I mean, first of all, there's a a lot of planning that goes in. We have uh an amazing video team that is responsible for organizing all of these sort of high level shoots that we do, whether it's weak on the wrist or talking watches, three on three, you name it. They do so much of the heavy lifting that we don't do. Um we come up with a lot of the high level ideas, so it's easy for me to say, Hey guys, I'd love to drive a classic car all around. Um I'd love to sit in a really cool vintage coffee shop with a Porsche 911 behind me, all these things. But they're the ones who make it happen. There's a like a whole production schedule that we have that there's location scouting, someone has to go find the car itself, rent it. But what ends up happening is you there's a lot of adjusting to things that go wrong on on every video shoot. It does it doesn't go as planned. It never does. Yeah. The locations you pick, the cars you pick, the script, and then after you film it you find out that the audio is just shot because a refrigerator and the coffee shop was buzzing but we couldn't hear it, you know, at in the moment. Which which is what happened this time. You know, we have audio engineers that do their best job to balance audio so you never have to hear that those things ever happened. You know, if we have to record audio twice, things like that. I mean, it's like basic video production stuff. But on this particular shoot, when we found this four Mustang, which was uh honestly our second choice that we found on the day of, but turned out to be a great choice, you wouldn't know from looking at the video, but this was the hottest day of the year. There were two days in July that were a hundred and a hundred and two degrees back to back. On the hundred-degree day, I was out on uh doing a magazine story on location. And then the literally the following morning I woke up at seven o'clock to get into a car that has no air conditioning. Um basically a sweat uh sweat box um that made it like a hundred and twenty degrees. Um while our steam crew was driving around in a brand new air conditioned, you know, Toyota. Um for anything where you're speaking in the car, the windows have to be up for audio reasons too. Completely up. Which doesn't exactly help either because the mode the the engine is loud, so it wasn't like that was really like softening any of the uh the audio issues, but yeah. Windows have to be up. There were a lot of um discussions going on in the air conditioned Toyota that I was not privy to as I was waiting in the air conditionless Mustang. Um and I I would get out of the car a few times and was amazed at how much a hundred degree heat felt amazing. You know, like the difference between what what what the temperature was in the car versus what the temperature was outside. You're in an oven. It was it was it was incredible. Uh and then as fate would have it, uh in the middle of the shoot, the car just overheated. Yeah. Sure. And broke down, as they're want to do. And it was in that moment I remember I I had like two minds. I was driving in the car with one of our uh our video producers, Shaheed, and I remember saying to her, Man, I really I get this classic car thing. I love I love these things. These are amazing. I could totally get into this. And then not thirty minutes later, uh when the car broke down, I was like, No, I think I I don't think this is for me. Because I think it's it's it's par for the course to my understanding, is it just happens. Yeah. And if you're really into it, it's just part it's part of the the mystique. It's part of uh enjoying them. You just you know that you know stuff will happen with the car. And we we had some great mechanics that came out, fixed the car up, we were able to get it back running. But uh yeah |
| James Stacey | See if we can link some of those in uh in the show notes. What did uh what did you think of the watch? |
| Danny Milton | Watch was fantastic. Um, I was pretty shocked by it. I'd never seen um the one-tenth of a second uh chronograph function before in person. It's rare, eh? It's extremely cool. Um and what I liked the most is that the watch still manages to be thirty eight millimeters and fairly compact and fairly slim. Um to me that's the bat like the absolute like icing on the cake for the for for it because it feels so much like a vintage watch, which I often marvel like how they were able to ever get those kinds of mechanics into small watches and yet today so many of the pieces we see are upsized and a lot thicker and a lot heavier and um just a lot less streamlined and this was was none of that. It was exactly what you'd want from a watch in any era. And it felt very faithful to everything that Zenith would have wanted to make in nineteen sixty-nine. Um nothing on it felt like a departure. It just it it was it didn't feel like um like a throwback so much as it felt like the final version, you know, of what of what that watch could be. |
| James Stacey | And aside from being part of a website that has to make content to continue being a website, why review this watch now? Is this a watch that you find personally interesting, you know, special beyond its say its price tag or its competition, that sort of thing |
| Danny Milton | ? I think first of all, there was a a a newness to it, which definitely makes it worthy of of conversation now. Um but beyond that, I still think that Zenith um for new enthusiasts is a brand that is not well known, not uh well understood. You have in terms of popular chronographs, you've got Rolex and Omega kind of ruling the world, and just right behind them is a watch that should be slotted right next to them. And I think that the El Primero deserves just as much notoriety as any famous Swiss watch ever made. I mean, it's just as iconic, it has uh as much historical value, and I think when a brand like Zenith releases sort of the perfect version of their most iconic watch, it's worthy of uh of coverage anyti |
| James Stacey | me. Right. Uh you know, Jack, I'm curious what you think why why do you think Zenith isn't isn't necessarily in the same mind share or maybe maybe not just Zenith, but why why the El Primero isn't necessarily as hot as uh Daytona? I think it's |
| Jack Forster | probably I mean it's it there there's probably a lot of things that factor into it. I mean, you know, it's the the the dumbest and least helpful uh tautology that you can formulate sort of in the watch world, but you know, Rolex is Rolex. Um and and by extension Rolex is Rolex for a reason. So you have this massive, massive, massive kind of brand equity and brand recognition behind Rolex that uh I mean I would be willing to bet you that if you took a hundred you just grabbed a hundred people at random, a lot more of them would have heard of Rolex than have heard of uh than have heard of Xenith. Um so you have this um you know absolute tsunami of brand recognition behind the Daytona. You also have continuity of production of the Daytona as well. I mean it's it's it's been in production you know consistently for decades, um, you know, without really without an interruption, uh whereas the you know, Zenith as a brand and uh in general and the and the Alpermer movement in particular, you know, those those they they were they packed up the pieces and s that they needed to make it and stuck them in an attic. And it was an order from Rolex, speaking of Rolex, that uh uh really put the movement back into production. And you know, I mean Omega is uh it's not quite the marketing behemoth that Rolex is, but it has a huge, huge, huge sort of available mind share to draw from. Uh the Speedmaster is the moon watch, you know, and uh nobody's ever gonna nobody nobody ever is going to take that away from them unless, you know, we start sending people to the moon with something other than an omega. Um so I think for all of those reasons and more the Xenothel Primero is not accorded the recognition that it deserves from a technical and historical standpoint. I mean I find it kind of fascinating that it's uh you know um of the three automatic chronograph movements that launched in nineteen sixty-nine, you know, the other ones being from uh Seiko and the uh you know Brightling Hamilton Hoyer Consortium. You know, it's the only one that's still in production. And you know, you can you can have either the original version, you know, basically the original version unchanged the caliber four hundred, or you can have an updated version if that's what you prefer. I'm actually curious which one, if you had to choose between the two, which one would you go for? I mean, would you would you go for the, you know, sort of hardcore enthusiast, nostalgists pick, um, you know, which is the EP400, or would you go for an upgraded ver upgraded, updated version of the movement |
| Danny Milton | ? I'm thinking. I I I I my gut's telling me the the caliber 400. Um even though I I was totally smitten by this watch.' Ths someterehing magical I think about that movement, the story behind it, how it was kind of saved and morphed and not only did it revive Zenith as a brand, but was able to help Catapult Rolex to take the Daytona from kind of um not necessarily its most popular watch to being arguably like the Rolex right now. Of course, we've talked about this a lot uh offline, Jack, but of course Rolex made probably so many modifications that 50% of the movement you know was more Rolex than it was zenith but you know it was still springboarded off of that caliber 400 movement and I think just to have that that original movement inside of an L And we're talking about it this man |
| James Stacey | y years later. You know, the the thing that strikes me with with Zenith that I don't think factors to Omega and Rolex if we're going to use these three as the examples is Zenith went through hard times. Aesthetically, leadership, you know, they had, they went, they really ebbed and flowed in terms of their perspective. The Rolex perspective is granite. I mean it moves slowly, it barely changes. They they really know what they want to do, and people have really attached to the fact that it's so glacial in in its surprises. It you know, it's hard to be surprised by something that takes that long to come to fruition and then never goes away. And I think in the in in the same way we see that with the Speedy, like the Speedy had this amazing moment that they've they've respected. So it's two different kind of philosophies on endure on enduring product design and legacy. But I think Zenith doesn't get to benefit from that. And I think that's where insiders know Zenith 'cause they would know their history. But people kind of new to the space maybe wouldn't understand one, why this is this this much money, why? W ishy it three grand grand or two more than uh speedy? What's special about it? And and I think this this comes down to sites like Hodinki and and and our peers and stuff. I I still think there's some explanations to be made about what five Hertz is and why it is something and why some brands |
| Danny Milton | are still about it. Absolutely. I think at the same level, when you're looking at how much more expensive it is than a speedy, it's also basically five grand less than a Daytona. And a point that I didn't necessarily drive home in the video, but is just it's true is that it's it's hard, if not downright impossible, to get a Daytona, whether we're talking steel or precious metal. And a watch with just as much history and a history that's connected to Rolex in many ways, is and there's all manner of of El Primero uh watches from Zenith, but but things that are iterating off the A386, especially in the caliber 400, I think you would be getting a whole lot of watch that anybody who knows watches or any collector if you walked into a room would would get that sort of nod of approval with his edit |
| James Stacey | . The other one that that I think is an interesting sort of very quiet elephant in the room is the fact that you mentioned it that Seiko was part of this in nineteen sixty nine and is not in this world currently. How badly does Seiko need a two to three thousand dollar like prospects automatic chronograph. Is that a good idea or is that a terrible idea? Aaron R |
| Jack Forster | oss Powell I mean how badly do they need it commercially is a really, really good question. That doesn't seem to be where they perce |
| James Stacey | ive the center of gravity for the company to be It feels like we're right on the edge of it being too late for them to make a uh reissue pogue or something like that that people could go crazy about. |
| Jack Forster | Yeah, I mean that's certainly something that I mean I I would certainly love that. And I think that there's probably a ton of people out there who would. But you know, it it just doesn't seem to be where they want to put their money. And they've got |
| James Stacey | the money to put it there if they wanted to. Yeah, yeah. I mean if if anyone could come out with a new automatic chronograph movement, or conceivably hand wound, I guess, but probably automatic. It would make more sense. And make it happen for a price point that would absolutely challenge the at a seventy seven fifties of the world. It would be Seiko and and it'd be fascinating to see them do the same sort of treatment they gave to the to my beloved sp one four three, which is just very it's kind of a quiet, small, easily wearable. It's a little on the expensive side for enthusiast sako prices, but it's really not when you look into the rest of the market, what's out there. Trevor Burrus I'd love for there to be |
| Jack Forster | you know another choice in terms of uh you know historically res resonant you know mechanical chronographs. I mean because it's not especially especially if you're looking for an automatic chronograph there's just not a whole lot of variety out there i in terms of movement technology. |
| James Stacey | Yeah at a certain price point you're pretty much stuck with uh seventy seven fifty or an offshoot thereof and then once you've kind of broken through the sort of Zinn Bell and Ross uh Braymont price points then you, you're're right at a speedy and then from there it goes insane. I mean chronographs are still very strong in the five figure world. I it'd be great to see something in the in the four low very low fours if we could. Yeah, yeah. Wouldn't it? I think feel like I say that a lot about all sorts of different stuff. Stuff should be cheaper. It's more fun when it is. So that really only leaves me with one sort of question, one thing I'd like your your your thoughts on when it comes to this Zenith. Where where do you guys land on the four thirty date? Don't care, hate it, like it, 'cause it's the it was there on the original? |
| Jack Forster | I like it for that reason and I also I like I really don't get the sort of like hate the f I mean I know that people come come up with all sorts of reasons reasons, quote unquote, why they hate the four thirty date window. But I feel like uh I feel like there aren't really reasons for a lot of things that uh we say there are reasons for. I mean uh certainly about watches in particular and I think, you know, life in general. We have emotional we have emotional reactions to things that are not based on reason at all. And then we kind of like backfill quote unquote reasons in order to justify our completely irrational take. And I kind of feel like that's where the four thirty date window is. It's like it's okay, you know, I mean to to not like it, but there's nothing I don't think there's anything inherently bad about it from a design standpoint. It's it's no worse than having the date at six or the date at three or the date at twelve, which is um you know something that happens very, you know, relatively seldom, but looks kinda cool when, you know, when it happens. Uh yeah, it doesn't it it doesn't bug me in the slightest. And it's in in this case it's kind of a signature of uh that particular watch and that particular movement. So |
| Danny Milton | I think it's cool. I don't hate it either. I mean it to me, especially on the the tricolor variation, it kind of jives with the kind of wonky late sixties aesthetic. This I mean the watch couldn't have been less conservative at the time. You know, there's the there's a ton of monochromatic watches out there black dial, white dial, panda dial. We're talking about you know red and blue and and sort of bright colors and why not bolster that with a with a four thirty date window? Just sort of like really lean into it. I'm not one that's gonna say for the sake of historical accuracy I like it because it's historical. You know, they very well I guess could have manufactured the movement with a date window at three o'clock from the jump. You know, that's that would be the argument, if you want to argue that, but that's all to say they didn't. I mean, this is what they made. And so to that level, no, I don't hate it. I don't hate it. I don't hate a lot of things. You know, hate's a really strong word. It's not something that jumps out at you when you're wearing the watch either. Like trust me. It absolutely does not, especially when you're talking about a watch that's 38 millimeters in diameter. And it's uh it's it's sort of in line with the hundred seconds counter. Um it's sort of it's right there. You know the all all the numerals are sort of offset as as they you know circumvent and you know it's it's there are m worse things on watches than this four thirty date window. Many, many worse things. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I mean I I'm on record I hate four thirty dates, you know, alm almost without exception. I I think it's a little bit different when you get into a chronograph because they are busy enough to make that date not feel like they got ninety-five percent of the way through designing the watch and then they went, oh crap, the movement has a date. Uh all right, punch a hole in the dial and let's keep going, right? Like the one on the El Primero, it it does bother me when I look at it in images, but then if I have that watch in person, doesn't bother me at all. Like even a little bit. And I think the cool thing in my mind is this is one of the few where I would give it a pass where it wouldn't bother me. It's almost like if you guys remember um just for traditional reasons, Saab, the car maker, used to have their ignition kind of between the the passenger and the driver down in the the center console. And that would be annoying the first four or four or five times you got in your new sob and jammed the key into the steering column or or whatever. And of course now cars all just have a button that you press. But back in the day, I think there's a little bit of charm to that in that it's quirky, you know, and and I think um uh I think that kind of works in Zenith's favor as it it does kind of stand out. I think that a no date version would also be really hot. I don't think it would be better to just go, we didn't like it at 430, so we moved it to six. Like keep the 430 because it's old because it's old school and cool and kind of funky and weird. But I think a no-date version of that watch, especially in Danny, you pulled this one out in the video, the gold one. I swoon pretty hard for that gold one. It's awes |
| Danny Milton | ome. I mean, Zenith has done this with with no date options before the revival series. They'll like I low-key am I think the revival Shadow is one of the coolest watches out there. It's very cool. Is that the one in the three eight four sort of inspired case? Yeah, yeah. And there's no date. There's others like the Revival Liberty and a lot of others in that range that do have the date. So So I could see that coming from from Zenith maybe in the future. Who knows? Um it wouldn't be exactly as faithful, but it would still be as good |
| Jack Forster | . I mean uh you know the one that you reviewed in in steel, for instance, Danny, like you can't put the date window at three o'clock because there's no room for it. There's no room for it in between the chronograph subdial and the uh and the and and the outer minutes track. Uh you can't I mean you could put it at twelve o'clock um, but that would you know that would look that would just give people something else. It would it would be very strange. That would be s quite a bit stranger than four thirty. I'm just imagining people's reaction to a seven thirty date w |
| James Stacey | indow. Well you guys you guys remember the Jar Paragot WW dot TC? It had a date at two or two thirty. Yes. In in some of the versions. Maybe it might have been the because they made a lot of those. Those are very cool watches in my world. A little on the large side, for a lot of them were like forty-four. Yeah, they were big. But really interesting movements. Jared Perigo, when they do sporty stuff, does it from an angle that like no one else can even think about. You look back at some of their like the Fordante chronograph and uh the stuff they did with Ferrari because you know, before Panorai, before Hublow, before all these other brands were tied with the Ferrari name brand, believe it or not, or Jar Perigo, the watch is you know, the pre internet watch world was was very uh interesting in its connections because they were all niche. They didn't have to appeal to a a worldwide audience that had Instagram and the rest of it. Uh but some of the some of the weird older GP stuff is really rad and and I'm I'm almost positive that they did a um like a W I'll I'll put it in the show notes if I can find it, but uh W W.tc that had it was a chronograph and a world timer and it had a date like around two or two thirty, which is plenty wild. |
| Jack Forster | Yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of uh I'm remembering the same thing. Yeah, it really is funny though. I I'm so I'm surprised that you know the placement of the four thirty date window on on on on this particular watch, you know, isn't talked about a little bit more just from a practicality standpoint I mean you can't you you you can't actually put it to twelve o'clock either because then you I mean you would have to rearrange all of the dial verbiage and change the location of the it just it would again I think it would throw everyt |
| Danny Milton | hing off. I I think Jack swayed me. I think just the sheer idea that there's nowhere else to put it.es M itak no it's a great argument and it makes it honestly more thoughtful. I mean you're looking at it and you go, where would |
| James Stacey | we put it? Yeah, Jack, you know, I I think your where else would they put it argument is kind of fun uh for for the the El Primero and the four thirty date. Let us know in the comments what you think of four thirty dates, whether it be on this watch or another one. Tell me your favorite and your least favorite, and we'll go from there and maybe we'll we'll start to uh zero in on the uh the perfect placement or the the the ways in which a four thirty date can actually work. Alright, I think that's enough of uh you know lowly eight thousand dollar chronographs and where they decide to put their dates. I want to talk about the high life, the good, the good life, the big dresses, the uh weird colors, the the people who's the famous people who I've never heard of, and that would be the Met Gala. Did you guys scope this article we published, which was like a a a watch spotting uh from the Met Gala? Danny, did that come from you from your watch spotting talent? It probab |
| Danny Milton | ly did, didn't it? It it wasn't just mine. I I crowdsourced internally from the good folks at Hodenkey, um including Trevor, who is our esteemed uh social media coordinator, who also is a a great watch spotter and was following along the red carpet. But yeah, that was my my name is on that story. Right. So what do you |
| James Stacey | uh well let's start there. What for those listening, I I'm not a New Yorker, obviously, even a little bit. What is the Metgala and why does it matter? Let's start there. Because I think you know we have a big enough audience that's probably not necessarily tied into why we would even publish this. Uh the MetGala |
| Jack Forster | is uh what's the formal name for it? I think it's the Costume Institute Gala or something like that. It's a it's a benefit for the Metropolitan Museum of Arts uh Costume Institute. And historically it's been uh it's there's there's a theme which is uh announced by the organizers every year, and um you know sometimes uh people get with it and sometimes people don't. From some of the reviews from the fashion press that I read of this year's Met Gala, I think there was a feeling that this year's theme was kind of harder for people to wrap their minds around. But you know, there have been uh f I think one one one major snafu I remember was when uh the organizers decided that the the the theme was gonna be a white white tie. And like uh you know, n nobody knew that n what that was, so there were there were all sorts of hilarious attempts to approximate you know what people thought was some vague notion of uh you know super formal dress. The men always seem to go for variations. You don't have a whole lot of options unless you want to really, really go off the reservation. You know, I mean ever y you either uh put uh you know, you either dress up in a way that looks you know, kind of bizarre and is gonna you know, get your picture in as many publications as possible, or you just say screw |
| James Stacey | it and you put on a put on a tux. Yeah, you put it you put a tux on and you and you you brush your hair or you carry around a weird baby a weird green baby like Frank Ocean. And I I love Frank, so you're not gonna hear anything but but love and and appreciation. I'm sure Frank knew |
| Jack Forster | it Dream. And I was like then I looked at the Met G |
| James Stacey | ala coverage and I was like, oh, that's why. Alright. Well we don't we don't have to belabor this because it is a very much a visual sort of post. It's it's a watch spotting uh you know uh a mix of very well dressed people and people who may maybe are well dressed and I just don't have appreciation for high fashion, that's fine, of course. What what stands out as far as uh some of the watches that that we we saw in the list? Danny, any of these are are faves for you? Yeah, I there |
| Danny Milton | there was a obviously g a lot of of interesting watches there. Weirdly for me, the one that stood out was a watch on someone that is not known for wearing watches, and that's the tonight show host Jimmy Fallon. He was uh there was actually a funny uh bit on the James Corden show where the two of them he was talking about a conversation they had at the Met Gala where the two of them looked at each other and said, You and I are the only two people here who actually just put on a black tuxedo. Whereas everybody else to Jack's point was dressed all manner of crazy things. But but what Fallon had on his wrist was a an Omega Speedmaster Mark II, but a vintage uh model from nineteen seventy-two, which is a crazy watch, first of all. He did a little behind the scenes video on his own Instagram where not only did he show the watch he was wearing, um, but he had a nice close-up photo of it, and he also told uh the audience he was wearing uh Cartier Cufflinks that belonged to David Letterman. So it was kind of a cool kind of a cool uh homage to you know the the last generation of late night television hosts and a great vintage watch, which is definitely not, you know, tuxedo appropriate, I'm sure our audience would agree, but at the Met Gala, I think anything |
| James Stacey | kind of goes. I also think it like if I'm not saying that Jimmy Fallon is necessarily like a maven of style, but I think that his entire like arc has just been like I'm I'm doing this because it makes me happy. Yeah, definitely. So like I don't think you're gonna question Fallon deciding to wear a speedy instead of uh you know, a a beautiful page altiplano or something like that, like you might more commonly see at these things. Jack, any of these stand out for you or or or w are you all also in the the Fallon and the the Speedy Camp. I mean I think that that was a great choice |
| Jack Forster | . Um I think he looked fantastic. But I actually I gotta give a shout out to friend of the show, Aldous Hodge, for rocking Grubble Forzy. This is my pick. That Gruble Forcey double turbine thirty degrees is uh I think it's one of the most beautiful watches ever made. The last time I actually had my hands on one, I think was like when did I I did a story on it back in like two thousand sixteen or seventeen, I think. Yeah. We can I'm sure that we can find it. But um it's it's just an astonishingly beautiful watch. If you like their approach to watch making it all, I think it's one of the most beautiful pieces that Grubble Forcey's ever made. And uh you know, you can just get lost in it. And uh I think he looked he looked fantastic. I mean very, very clean. Oh the he looks like a |
| James Stacey | million dollars. The watch always like it's a it's a GF, it always looks like a million dollars, regardless of what they're what they're billing for it. No, I absolutely I mean he he got the top photo in there. I mean, aside from the hero, which is a a sick G Shock. Uh but yeah, the this I thought Hodge won for sure. It uh looked so good. Yeah, just his whole look overall |
| Jack Forster | , you know, I mean and he's he's uh not only a watch enthusiast, he's also a watchmaker. So I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume that he really kind of to some extent at least built his look around uh what would make him look good, but also um, you know, what would kind of set off the watch nicely |
| James Stacey | . And uh he just looked fantastic, I thought. Yep, no, I I absolutely agree. It was uh an interesting post. You know, I I find the Mecalac to be baffling. But it happens and and and and I guess you get these these crazy looks and the wild dresses and the rest of it and and hey, who I'm sure there's things that I'm into that uh other other people would look on and go, Yeah, what w I don't know what's going on here, why these people are congregating all in one place. But hey, if it's supporting a a a good uh a good group of people then uh more power to him do we'll put that in the show notes if you didn't uh and yeah I would say uh kudos to Fallon and to all this for uh some some great picks and some solid looks. Uh I think we gotta wrap up, but I I really don't want to go I don't want to miss my chance to talk about a watch that I'm excited about, which is uh this uh AP made a a handful of drops recently, but one of them is a US only titanium QP. The Royal Oak QPs are are for me that that's where the Royal Oak that's what it is in my mind. I I wrote a huge uh story uh last year about kind of the early years of the Royal Oak QP and how in many ways it is as strange a watch. It's not as big a gamble, but I would say it's as strange a watch move as the original Royaloke was in 72 to then come out uh you know right on the edge uh right right when most brands were disappearing to say like oh we're actually gonna take our arguably most difficult watch to make and our most difficult movement to produce quickly and put it in one case that's like crazy thin and it's still gonna be water resistant and oh and we're gonna continue to make it in steel and for so long they were slept on. And I think they're they're starting now they're forty one millimeters, they're a little bit bigger. In person they're really incredible things and they're like a a touch point in my mind for like high-end watchmaking that I think I would actually want on my wrist for more than a few hours at a time. Uh a lot of this stuff that you look at, you go, Well, I that would be amazing to wear for a little while. Then you actually think of owning it and you're like, oh my goodness, the door jams. A door jam that could cost me twenty thousand dollars or, you know uh I could I I'd have to put my kids in a different room and and and you know just cut wall to wall mattresses and go full Howard Hughes to make sure I don't put a scratch on on something more fancy and uh but with with these and and even with the titanium I just think like what a uh what what a cool thing. You know it it it's fun to see more of these, more titanium in general. It's already been a pretty good year uh for the metal in general. Where where do you guys land on this or or any of the other uh there's been a handful of uh like very recent drops from from AP? For the |
| Danny Milton | QP, I I happened to conveniently pop into the office when it was in for photography and um got to try it on. Titanium still like baffles me. Like my mind can't grapple like how what I'm holding to what I'm looking at. Uh like the it just the math doesn't work. Like it this it looks heavy, feels light, like unreasonably light. And uh I honestly think if if I were to choose, I mean not that I have the budget for it, but if there was a Royal Oak uh for me, it would be a titanium royal oak and it might very well be this QP. I mean it was like nothing I'd I'd worn before. And I've worn some stuff, you know |
| James Stacey | ? Yeah. I mean it's eighty grand if you can get one, so it's not like it's not like the titanium means that it's uh suddenly a screaming bargain. Right. Uh you know, keep in mind that I saw uh five digit versions of the the previous generation, the thirty-nine millimeters. I have auction records in my post of like solid gold BAs going for 10, 12 grand. So it it is a s an insane world that that we exist in. But Jack, if you look at this, and then of course they did a uh a repeater and a uh a code eleven fifty nine open work turbine. Where do you land on these three? What's the one that like really captures the jack vibe? Uh geez, the the Royal Oak Re |
| Jack Forster | peater. Yeah, the recause that repeater is crazy. And uh you know, I mean AP has such a long, wonderful history of doing minute repeaters. Mm-hmm. You know, so pretty much any minute repeater that you get from AP is gonna be um worth paying attention to. I I don't know though. I mean the um I think the perpetual calendar in a royal oak case uh is a really, really convincing complication. I think it just and and you know you're absolutely right. It's kind of a strange move, you know, at first. I mean, if it had never been done before and somebody said, Okay, like you know, let's let's let's put this you know, kind of um austere, uh old school, you know, pretty traditionally constructed complication inside uh you know a case that was you know designed in the early nineteen seventies. Uh it it you know on paper it doesn't sound like it should work, but it works really, really well. Yeah. That said, I'd uh I'd give my IT to play around with that repeater for an afternoon. |
| James Stacey | Mm-hmm. And then this uh you know, the code eleven fifty nine that's a watch that gets a lot of heat. I think this uh open work turbulent is the best looking one they've made yet and in part I would say it it's because of that strap. And if you don't if you've no clue what I'm talking about 'cause you're not a a code fan or you're not an A P guy or whatever guy or gal, just hit the link in the show notes because it's on this like um like a NATO but a sewn strap, so a two-piece sort of nylon textile strap of some sort. And I'm sure it's much fancier than a NATO. Let's be clear, that's just kind of my uh touch point for watch straps. Uh that with the kind of darker tone of the the the metal and then this fully open worked, it's all very uniform in its in its effect. I yeah, I think three three incredible drops for sure. |
| Jack Forster | If you can see one, I think it's really worth seeing this um two tone code eleven fifty nine in person. I mean there's uh the uh the ki the the combination of uh gold case metal uh |
| James Stacey | with uh white metal, you know, everything else. Uh it just works really, really well. No, I I agree. I I'm not a big two tone fan, but I do like the idea of just having it on I guess it's the hands as well, but the that that center barrel element. Uh yeah, these are these are cool things and it's cool to see it sort of progress towards some maturity in terms of of of having a position that we understand and and how it looks. And of course, it is just a fantastically finished watch, ev even by AP standards. Uh really impressive things and I'm one hundred percent uh in agreement with Jack. You should uh get a chance to see these in person whenever possible. So if you live in a city with uh with a boutique, uh maybe give them a call and see what they've got that you could swing by and take a look if they don't mind. Uh uh I I think it's it's always a treat to see this kind of stuff. And if you're lucky enough to be in Danny's position and get to hold or try on a titanium royal oak, that's uh that's kind of a special moment in in many ways. That's it's all luck though. Yeah. All luck of the draw. Well that,'s how most of these things go, but uh I'll take luck if it gets me a titanium royal oak every now and then. To everyone listening, thank you so much. Hit the show notes if you have any comments or if you want to read in more on some of the stuff we chatted about. Uh otherwise, we'll uh catch you in about a week's time and we'll chat to you then. Thanks for coming on, guys. |