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George Bamford Just Wants You To Express Yourself (Through Watches)

Published on Mon, 26 Jul 2021 10:00:00 +0000

We talk customization, collaborations, collecting, and a whole lot more.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent sits down with George Bamford, founder of Bamford Watch Department and Bamford London. George shares his fascinating journey into the watch world, beginning with his first significant watch—a Breitling Navitimer in 1995—which he immediately took apart to understand how it worked. Coming from an engineering family background and being dyslexic, George always gravitated toward hands-on learning, which led him to study photography at Parsons in New York.

During his time in New York, George frequented flea markets where he educated himself about watches by trading pieces, learning about brands like Omega, Heuer, and others through tactile experience rather than the internet. This hands-on education gave him a deep appreciation for the three-dimensional aspects of watches—their weight, feel, and how dials come alive in different lighting conditions. After working as a photographer, George transitioned to watches full-time during the 2008 recession, when his side business in watch customization began to overtake his photography work.

The conversation delves into how Bamford Watch Department started almost by happenstance, beginning with George customizing a Tag Heuer Monaco he received at a Concours d'Elegance. He created what he called the "Dark Lord" by blackening the case, and clients began requesting similar customizations. George emphasizes that his approach wasn't meant to be shocking—it was simply an "anti-bling" aesthetic that resonated with people seeking individuality. A pivotal moment came when Jean-Claude Biver reached out to George late one night, eventually leading to an official partnership with Tag Heuer and other LVMH brands. This happened during one of the darkest periods of George's life, when his son was being born with complications, making Biver's support even more meaningful.

George and Stephen discuss the importance of personalization in luxury watches, noting how other luxury industries offer bespoke options while watches remain largely standardized. George's philosophy centers on watches bringing joy and reflecting individual personality rather than following trends or signaling wealth. He shares his enthusiasm for collaborations with artists like Daniel Arsham and his recent work with brands including Zenith, Girard-Perregaux, and Bulgari. The episode concludes with George's perspective that watch collecting should be about personal happiness and expression, whether that means wearing a Cookie Monster dial or a vintage Heuer—what matters is that it makes you smile when you look down at your wrist.

Transcript

Speaker
George Bamford Sometimes images don't do it justice. That is something that you don't realize. The weight of watches. Gold plating doesn't feel like gold, but it looks like gold. Let's say a tropical dial. You know how, the tropical dial just kind of comes alive. And that's that for me is I think the differences when you see it in your hands, I I can understand what the designer thought. And you know, sometimes you just go, I don't really know what they thought, but I fricking love it
Stephen Pulvirent . Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Pulverant and this is Hodinky Radio. This week we've got one of my all-time favorite people from the Watch World on the show, and that's Mr. George Bamford. You might know George as the guy who used to blackout Rolexes, who now is working directly with a ton of watch brands, uh, the likes of Zenith, Tacoyer, Bulgari, as well as working on his own brand, Bamford London. And George is somebody who, while you may see the more avant-garde side of his personality, uh has a deep respect and love for the history of watchmaking. He's somebody I met really early on in my watch journey and kind of has set a great example for how you can love watches and make watches a fun, engaging part of your life and a way to find community and express yourself through time pieces. And I honestly can't believe we've made it this long without George on the show. This episode is a ton of fun and we get into a lot of topics, some heavy, some light, all of them well worth your time. So without further ado, let's do this Hey George, good to see you. Welcome to the show, man. I am so happy to be here. What an honor. Man, the the honor is all mine. Uh it is always nice to see your face. I mean it's early morning here on the West Coast and there is not a better way to start the day, my friend. Well, hey, I I can't see your face, but uh I'm giving you a massive hug and high five and a big smile. I cannot wait until we can hang out either uh in London or in LA or in New York or somewhere, but it's been way too long. Hell yes. Hell yes, I cannot wait to. When you and I talked about having you on the show, I was kind of shocked that we hadn't done it already. Um mostly because I think I've known you almost as long as I've been in the watch world. I think we met maybe on my first trip to London with Hodinky like back in I don't know, like twenty twelve maybe, maybe twenty thirteen. Yes. You're totally right. And
George Bamford there was a Hudinki meetup at a bar. Yeah. Yeah, and and God yeah, that that is I'm now showing my age aren't I. Um but yeah, no, that that was that was a long time into my business and I remember turning up and just hanging out with you guys and it was just it was such a cool bar. I can't remember what the bar was called. I can't remember, but it was just hanging out with a Hudinky team. That was and meeting you and I think it started a
Stephen Pulvirent good friendship. Yeah, I I totally agree. I mean, I I was kind of like loosely aware of of who you were. You know, I knew about what you were doing with the Bamford Watch department, but like we didn't know each other at all, and we've obviously gotten to know each other over the years, but I I think for our audience, maybe let's let's start kind of at the beginning of you, your background, and then how you kind of found your way into the watch world. What's what's the the short version of the George Bamford story? Oh my God, how the short version. I don't know
George Bamford if I can do a short version. You know that I can max lyrical beyond beliefs, so that's that's probably um the short version, um I was born, no, um we we need to go a bit uh sooner than that. Um first first watch I ever ever really had a kind of first ever watch was probably a flip-flack. You know, you've gotta you've gotta you've gotta show some love to uh swatch and flip-flax and you know all those kind of wonderful watches. But the first watch that was my Eureka moment, the light bulb moment of loving of watches was a brightly naviger. Okay. In nineteen ninety-five, I think it was, and I can't remember how old I was, but I but someone will be able to do the maths. But that was my first watch that I got given for Christmas, and it was my first massive foray into watch loving. And uh by boxing day I uh had taken it to bits and wanted to figure out how it worked. Now I'll take you back, I'm dyslexic, so for me, reading and writing was never my forte, so I always loved doing stuff with my hands and like you I'm a photographer and I was I I've always been a photographer because for me that was the idea of developing uh you know understanding this wonderful thing of taking a piece of art and and some decisive moments and and things like that. So that was for me the my kind of idea of doing by practicality. And so taking taking a watch to bits was my kind of understanding how it worked. I had a pen knife and a glasses screwdriver to do it. Brightling would have been now, I'm sure George Kern will be like going, oh my goodness, how would you work on that? And I put it back together. There was a few bits missing on the carpet floor, but um I put the watch back together. Um it did work. The chrono function didn't stop at uh the right uh at twelve. It kind of stopped uh well I don't know if it stopped at all, but um I remember just kind of falling in love with the idea of watches and and that kind of real like oh my goodness the something here and these small mechanical pieces. And I and you know I can take I I'm taking you on a wonderful little story of me but I come from an engineering background my family are in engineering so when I was eight I learned how to world I took an engine to bits. So my summer holidays was being in an engineering environment. So for me, that was always my kind of thing of understanding what happens. So the watch was kind of almost my little world that I could say with my hands I could understand it works in this way. And that that kind of was my first foray into uh into understanding about watches. And I was like, wow, light bulb moment, love of watch
Stephen Pulvirent it. Yeah, and then you you in uh I I think I can say classic George fashion took it kind of like to the nth degree, right? Like you took this idea that you love doing this and you you built a whole company in a whole sort of like distinctive style around it with the the Banford Watch Department. Yeah, I well
George Bamford I can I can tell you that so I went to Parsons in New York as a photographer. So I went went there and that for me was m probably the most formative time in my life because it was university life but it was also flea markets you know you know them and you guys have written so many articles on on about flea markets and and to describe a flea market you know if you don't know you know it's this kind of um meeting of kind of wonderful obje art and kind of leather goods and you can find wonderful watches and the New York flea markets are some of the best in the world. There is uh you're in LA now and the the there's the Rose Bowl that's uh that is also another great flea market. There's some great ones in Germany and other places. But I used to go to the flea markets and learn about watches because you've got to imagine that the internet I mean, I think I had a hotmail email account and that was kind of that and you know, there wasn't hoodinky at the time. There wasn't someone to inform me about watches. So I had to learn on my own. So flea markets was the starting and I used to kind of trade different watches. So I would one weekend I would have a I would trade um I don't know a very very simple seamaster and I'd trade it for a um Camaro and then I would then I'd change the strap over and I would I'd then trade that the next weekend with something else. And and I used to just trade through watches and understand them at that point. And that was kind of my my understanding of like, you know, under like uh lobster omagas and monacos and Camaros and Montreals and uh just weird and wonderful and I I became a magpie of kind of finding out and understanding weird and wonderful or going to shops and just trying on a watch. And it wasn't for social media because that's kind of now the thing, but it was just because I wanted to understand how it worked. So I think that's you know that,'s the s kind of starting point of kind of like just really feeding my addiction by just trading and and kind of I don't know, loving lov
Stephen Pulvirent ing those type of watches. Yeah, I think it's it's amazing this idea that in in the pre-social media and pre-sort of like in quotes like watch internet days, like the way you had to learn about these things was practical and hands-on. And that's so different, I think, from how many collectors today learn where it's you know searching hashtags on Instagram and watching Zoom seminars now and all this stuff. And it's like, what do you think you you maybe learned from having that like very tactile education that if you were doing it today, you might you might have missed out on? I
George Bamford think uh I think the three-dimensional side of it, feeling touching. Um, you know, I think sometimes images don't do it justice. As you've seen, uh, we've just launched the brand new casquette by GP. Now I like the weird and wonderful, uh, this carbon case. Now no one, unless you go to the Only Watch auction and you go and pick it up, you won't realize how light the watch is. It is ultra light. It's as light as a sheet of paper. Now, for me, that is something that you don't realize: the weight of watches. Gold plating doesn't feel like gold, but it looks like gold, you know, and even aging, you know, how aging of gold, you know, it's interesting when you take take a photograph of something, you can see some patina, but when you look at it um in the in different lights, the patina plays, and you go, wow, that's amazing. Or let's say a tropical dial. You know how the tropical dial just kind of comes alive and and sometimes it looks flat, but when you look at it under light, you just go, wow, I can see the aging on it or the love of it. And that's that for me is the cool thing of like uh you know, or like a gray dial omega. I I just looked at Chrono stocks recently and they got this wonderful grey and orange, and you just go, that's that's amazing because the orange really pops off the dial and that's that for me is I think the difference is when you see it in your hands and you can feel the edging and you can feel this you can feel a watch and you can go, oh yeah. I I can understand what the designer thought. And you know, sometimes you just go, I don't really know what they thought, but I freaking love
Stephen Pulvirent it. Yeah. No, I I totally agree with you and I think it's that experience, you know, it's really uh it's it's the difference of like looking at a picture of food and going to a restaurant, you know, like it's oh yeah. No nobody would say that looking at a picture of food is eating, but yeah, I th I think that perspective is is important. Definitely. So you you went to Parsons, you're in New York, you come back to London. You worked as a photographer for a few years, right? Yes. Yes. So like
George Bamford uh well, you've reversed it, but um I yeah, I was a photographer and recession hit in and I had a um hobby uh not a hobby business, but I had a another business uh that was banned for watch department and that basically when the recession hit and I thought my wages was going to increase as a photographer, I, you know, the best way of describing it is the watch business took over and boosted me on that side and I was just like, Okay, I need to jump ship and I need to go into something in photography. So I did two things that I love and one of them is photography and one of them's watches. So I kind of um, you know, what what's that saying about if you love what you do, you don't do a day's work in your life. And I kind of feel like I I feel felt that on both sides of it. That's amazing. And the th the only thing I will say to you about photography, I didn't I uh you know it was at the digital transformation. So we were looking at Hasselblads, so I was originally on a 503 and 501 Hasselblads, so these are really old school film cameras and it was beautiful and that feel and and then we moved over to a digital camera and uh this was HD1s and sorry I I think it's H1Bs and things like that that there were digital backs and and they were they're very very good cameras but I kind of started losing maybe the control was going out of uh you know the because what happened was that it became more about uh what the art director was doing than the photographer. And I think that's and it was at that transformation time and and I was uh and it was always about more more more let's let's do this and and I thought that I was going to see a massive um increase and what happened was some of the top photographers reduced their rates during the recession. And so it kind of um it made me having to reduce my rates. So that basically made me jump ship, not jump ship because I I was always loving watches, but jumping over to wat
Stephen Pulvirent ches and loving what we did with look watches. Yeah, that's that's really fascinating. I mean, I I didn't realize you had started the businesses concurrently. So I I I guess my question is, what made you want to take your love of watches as a hobby and as something you were personally interested in and and start a business with it. And and then the second part of that question is why the Bamford watch department? Like why go the route you went instead of a more maybe traditional watch route? I believe in happen
George Bamford stance. You know, you you make your own destiny, but I also believe in happenstance. And and I know that's kind of one of these weird ideas of of what is that. At the time I I done a customized watch. I'd actually done a few customized watches, but the first one I ever did was a Taguay in Monaco. And the reason why I'd done it because I'd got given it at a Concorde de Legance. And if anyone knows about them, they'll know what what it is. But if if you don't, this is a uh I'm I'm obsessed with cars. So um and I I was passenger in a car and it was to show off how beautiful this car is and and I was I was the passenger and the driver of the car said to me said so there was two watches there was two monacos that were given to the winner of the Concord Delegos and the guy said to me, Would you like it? And I said, Hell yes, I'd love it. And it was absolutely amazing. And then I was like, Oh yeah, this is a this is so cool. And I then wanted to create the Dark Lord. Um, so I found a blackening process, and so the first ever customized watch by me was a uh Tag Hoy of Monaco, and it was and that then so it was a black Monaco. I kept the dial roughly the same. I think I put a red hand on it. And honestly, the printing process, the printing quality, I saw a photograph of it recently. I've changed the watch about seven times since this, so don't I can't show you an original photograph with the watch so I can't show you the watch on my wrist because I haven't got it in that style anymore. But it was a red hand and I think it was a blue dial black case and everyone started saying, Hey, can you do this? Can you do this? Can you do a speed master? Can you do you know and there's so many different watches and I was like, Oh yeah, I can I can do that. Oh yeah, you know, and it's just and it was all through hot mail and it was happenstance. It was like, hey, can you do this? And I I was just like, yeah, I'll I'll I can do that. And that's how the business started. And it was in um my mother had a store called Bamflet and Sons. And so it was so nice that I basically had a cabinet in there where I would sell some secondhand watches, some small accessories to do with watches. And and I started selling uh, you know, customized pieces, but it was all it was very much, you know, a watchmaker. I found a coating uh facility. It was not planned to be where we are today. There was no kind of great grand plans. You know, if you think that I started roughly the same time as Bremont and that is a traditional way of setting up watches. Those guys are truly inspirational of how they've done it. And I I it wasn't kind of one of these things. I, you know, I probably, you know, that sliding door moment, I probably could have been a vintage watch dealer, I could have been an accessories designer, I could have been, you know, there's so many different things I could have been at those sliding doors and I was just like this is kind of cool and and people started asking and then you know and then it just snowballed and snowballed and I think that's where why it started this
Stephen Pulvirent way. Yeah, it's it's really interesting that you you've kind of revealed within this answer that you know something I know that our readers might not know, which is that like uh underneath the you know blacked-out modern watches, super avant-garde materials, all of this. You're like, you're like really in some ways like an old school watch nerd, right? Like you love vintage watches, you love the technical side of things, you love all the accessories and the culture of watches and I I think it's really telling that you you kind of like you learned the rules before you broke them, you know, to use another cliche.
George Bamford I'd love to say I y I I I don't know if I know the rules 'cause the rules are always kind of coming across there. But I am uh you know, I love watches. I love collecting watches. I love going on that discovery of watches. Yeah, I love and looking at your Instagram and seeing a great watch, looking at you know looking at the weird and wonderful, looking at ugly watches, beautiful watches. I love, I I I I really do geek out. I've got tons of watch um books. I mean, even today I watch about two or three things explaining different watches and I'm like going, I consume about watches because
Stephen Pulvirent I l I love it. Yeah, and so your your business has kind of turned into it it now really has like two prongs, right? There's the the Bamford Watch Department and then Bamford London. So yeah, let's maybe go down the the BWD uh road first. So that's that's what people I think probably mostly know you for, right? Is is what's started as for the most part blacked out Rolexes um to a large degree. And I I I'm kind of curious about the early days of that business. Like what were the sort of challenging things, both from a technical standpoint and in terms of messaging, like getting people to understand what you were doing? Because I think we all take for granted today that there that this kind of thing exists. But when you started doing it, it it really didn't. It was it was novel and and different and new and kind of shocking, I think, to a lot of people in the watch world.
George Bamford Um Um you know, I always look at the past and I think, Christ, how did it get me to where I am today? Um and and uh yeah, I'm sure back in the day it was shocking of what I did. I I never saw it as shocking. I just saw it as an anti-bling. You know, you think about at that time, it was just everything, you know, I don't know. I just look at s all watches and I think, Christ almighty, it's very look at me. And I was very much almost the opposite. And that became look at me. And I and I don't think that was my intention of the the shock side of it. It was very much, you know, I heard uh I you know, I wasn't the first to blacken out a watch ever. You know, you think about Porsche design, you think about the Hoyle Dark Lord. You know, most watch brands had had a black watch coming through. I mean, those push design painted black watches, they were so damn cool. And the and the Hoyer, um, but there's a Hoyer that there was a green one and a brown one and a black one and and the grey one. And I just I look at those things and I think they were the first ones through this. So I would say to you is it wasn't it wasn't me trying to be shocking. I think it was just me enjoying doing something that was a bit different and a bit kind of I don't know, just less uh less bling and more just kind of let's try and be a bit subtle. And then I don't know, it escalated from there, and then it was clients demands. And you know, it was very much I I didn't think uh anyone else would would like it. I didn't think anyone else would want it. And then then it started snowballing. And and you know I look at the past and I think Christ almighty, where do we you know from there to where I am today, I look at you know, it's it's bloody amazing of what's what the path was to the first first you know watch I customized to today where you know we're working with watch brands officially and now that for me is like I never thought I I you know I honestly I thought that the the business probably only had uh six months legs and then it would have been you know over and done or you know, I I I and probably always think that I always think about what's you know, you're only as good as your last thing. So yeah you always got and it's the same with you when you're writing an article or photographs or anything. People look at it and and go, You're only as good as that last point. And so, you know, I I probably wake up every morning going, Oh my God, what's the what can we do next? But I but the thing is, you know, you're taking me back in time, and I'm like thinking, Christ almighty, you know, it's it's it's quite amazing to think about the past. Yeah. Um, but I but I but honestly, where I look today I look at you know black watches are around and they have hit the mainstream in such a way but what I believe in is customization or personalization because for me that is you know we're living in an uh what's the best way to describe we're living in a mass market luxury world and individuality you know, especially in watches, is quite hard to come by unless you've got a hell of a lot of money. Yeah. And so you then think about things like, you know, I had a eureka moment when you guys launched the Hoya skipper. Now for me, and I described this a few times is I fell down the stairs in my boxer shorts of all things. So you you now if you ever see a photograph of me, you now have a visual of me falling down my stairs in my box of shorts, trying to get onto the internet, trying to order that watch. And I thought to myself, that is absolutely amazing. And then you had a record result at the auction, I think it was Phillips that there was a record result. Yeah. And I look at that watch and that puts puts you in a very small club. It's puts you in this club that is a Hoya Skipper club. I mean, I'm sure there may even be a hashtag, and if there isn't, I'm sure there will be a hashtag now. But what I would say to you is it put me into a little small group of people that actually Now personalization for me is that, but times 10. It's you being a part of something that is yours. It's yours and no one else's. It is individual to you. And that's what I love about what we do is, you know, people's individual taste. It may be not my taste, it may not be your taste, or your taste will be different from my taste, but it will be something that someone says this is me. And I think to myself as you think about trainers, you think about what we wear today, and we go out into the world and we project us, but we will have on our wrist something that most people maybe it some watches are hard to get hold of, but most people will be able to get it, and that for me is is that kind of thing of like okay it doesn't project you as an individual it projects you as following the herd and that's where I look at personalization and I love the idea and I want more brands to do personalization because I think to myself is it is key to keeping someone to say actually I want something individual to me. I want it to project my tas
Stephen Pulvirent te. Yeah, and it's interesting that watches are are kind of behind a lot of other luxury in that way, right? Like if you think about the other things that that let's say men buy at the high end, right? Like once you get to a certain level, you're not buying suits off the rack, you're going bespoke, you're getting your shoes made, you're getting your glasses made, you know, and it's it's always kind of perplexed me coming first from the the menswear world into the watch world, that at the high end there's so little personalization that people are spending 100, 200, 300,000 on a watch that essentially comes out of a factory. That's where
George Bamford I look at it. And so that that's where my business sits is is individuality. But the automotive industry does it. They you can personalize cars. You can go to autobiography from Range Rover. You can go to Rolls-yRoce and get, you know, individual thing. You can go to Mini and have uh special decals on your mini. So, you know, for me, I look at it and I think, well, there is that last bastiole of uh luxury, and I think it is watches. That's why I love what you guys do on these um limited editions, because that is creating something that means that you're part of a very, very small club and they are rarer than uh some of these um uh uh uh highly valued watches. And you know, unless you are signalling to someone and saying I'm worth X amount or I want to be a part of this golf club, then you know, I think your individuality needs to come across in watches and what you collect. Yeah. You know, I love when someone asks you or asks me and says, Which watch shall I buy as my first one for my collection? I'm like, buy something that makes you happy. Right. Buy a watch that that you put on your wrist and you go, actually this is me. Right. These colours
Stephen Pulvirent are me. This is me. And that's what I love. And it it must be exciting for you because I mean a huge part of this, it's it's not just you know I mean now some some of the watches, yes, you can go online and use a configurator and and build it online and then order it. But I know still a lot of your customers and back in the day, all of your customers, it was it was a real collaboration. It was a real dialogue between you and them. And I wonder what that's like for you to to kind of work with people in that back and forth to take their ideas and their personality and sort of translate it into watches in a way that they like probably couldn't do on their own? Honestly, it's amazing. I I
George Bamford 'm sad at the moment with COVID because we can't get enough of our customers into the office and spend the time designing with them. We've got quite a few people, a lot. We've got quite a few people designing at the moment. Our graphics team is designing for a few people or where we're doing their designs and we're going back and forth. But the problem is when you're next door to each other and you're and it's what I said earlier about feeling the watch. You know, I i they need to feel the case. They need to look at the you know the the colour that they're choosing. You know, I when and even I need to get the idea of them. Yeah. So that's what we're missing. And so sometimes it's taking longer. And it's uh you know and we're we're getting disks made up for certain dials to send to them and getting it back and saying, do you like this colour? Yes I, do, but can you make it matte or can you do it semi or can we can we have a pattern built into it? And things like that. We're going back and forth in other ways. So for me, it's um, you know, I love people coming into our hive. We've got this townhouse in Mayfair, and I've built it specially for personalization. So you can come in and design your watch, what you want to create, your colourways. And that for me is the great thing. And you know, when I said to you earlier about, you know, sometimes it's not my taste, sometimes it's their taste, you know, the sometimes where I'm like going, those two colours do not work together. And then, you know, then you realize that the guy's company colours are that or his favorite colour is that. Then you're like, actually, it's you. It's n who gives a beep about me? It's about you. This this whole process is not a George Batford ego trip. It's it's about you as
Stephen Pulvirent a customer. What do you want? Yeah, I mean that's a really, really great point. And I I think that's, you know, ultimately what any successful collaboration is, right? Like it's a give and take, and it's sort of an act of humility. And one of the areas I think you do that really successfully and some of the watches that I I personally find most compelling that you've made over the years are the collaborations you do with artists, with people like Daniel Arsham, people like Mark Quinn, you know, and like these are artists whose work I I enjoy outside of watches. And it's exciting to see you work with them in a way where like you can do the part you're really good at and let them do the part they're really good at and end up at something that's like it's greater than the sum of its parts, as opposed to sort of two egos battling for uh, you know, supremacy, which I think is so often how those things turn out. And I I wonder for you, like A, how did the idea to work with artists like that come about? And B, how do you make sure you end up at that place where kind of it's greater than the sum of its parts?
George Bamford I think so. I have this mentality in my mind. I uh uh it's not mentality but it's always kind of the checklist of gotta wanna steal it. And and it's not I want to steal it, it's if I'm still dreaming about it the next day, if I still hanker after that, then then we need to do it. Um so every design we do is business, with artists, with anything, I go, yeah, that concept actually does tick the box. It's that thing of like, yeah, I want to do that. And you're saying, you know, today was quite amazing. I managed to uh sneak in some time with uh a good friend of mine, Johnny Dowell, that we worked with Daniel Arsham on doing a hand engraved Frank Muller. And what's been amazing is he's been working so we we've done this through lockdown and COVID and and he's he engraved the case, but never saw the whole watch as a finished article. And today was so amazing. We went for a walk around the block around my office and I had it in my pocket and I took it out and I said, Do you want to see it? And I've never seen someone smile so much because it was the three of us working. So it's Daniel and Daniel has has his watch and Johnny hadn't seen one in the finished. So this is King Nerd, a beautiful hand engraver, and he's such a great guy. And just to see him come along, you know, it's like this beaming smile and I was just like, that is awesome. Yeah. To see that something has come together. And the three of us have worked on a watch. And all I've done on my side is we created the dial and we created the strap and the hands. You know, it was very much, and it was with Daniel Arsham, you know, using his signature colours, using him, his input. And it was the three of us. And it was all through Zoom and Teams and I I think we had Google Google Meets at one of them. And it was amazing because the three of us came together and for Johnny to see it finished. And it was something I'd been desperate for him to see. And he put it on his wrist and and you know, we're we're doing a almost full circle of where I started and there was no um Instagram or some stuff like that. Where today I just saw him posting about it on Instagram and I was just like, this is awesome. You know, to see that kind of thing of like this kind of ethereal thing to where it is today
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah. I mean, so so I I I wanna make sure, I mean, I feel like you and I could talk about the just that for forever. But you know, you mentioned earlier that that it was sort of a dream come true for you to then add to your portfolio, not just working directly with clients, but also working directly with watch brands, kind of going the other direction. And I'm curious how that first came about because, you know, not not to uh bring back, I'm sure, any uh, you know, conflict or or stress from the early days, but you know, I know in the early days not all watch brands were super happy that you were customizing their watches for people. And so I wonder at what point the tide kind of turned. There was a quote and it
George Bamford was anyway, I I I was I was probably the pariah or whatever of the watch world. And the thing is what I say to you today, it's down to the vision of one truly great individual and someone that I consider, you know, and everyone considers. I I think if you don't consider him as the one of the gods of the watchworld and the godfather of the watchworld uh at the moment is Jean-Claude Biver and for me it was one of the biggest treats he's not the treats he was sitting next to a friend of mine at supper and you know, I'm sure loads of people have heard this story before, but he was sitting next door to a friend of mine at supper and the friend only knew me in the watch world. I don't know why, but only knew me and basically thought, Christ, I'm sitting next to Jean-Claude Beaver. What can I talk to him about? And and basically they said, I know George Bamford and he has Bamford watch barb. And Jean-Claude was like, let's phone him now. And this was at 11 o'clock at night. And this is in Switzerland. Anyway, a phone call. I'm one of these people that probably sleeps very, very minimally. So I had had my phone and I was like, oh yes, hi. And and this friend said, um, I've got Jean-Claude uh Beaver. Uh do you know him? And I was like, oh my God, he's he's my hero. Everything was flashing through my mind. I was like, oh shit, what have I done wrong? I, you know, what have I done right? What what and anyway, he said um George I'd like to come and see you and I was like oh you know my heart was beating and I was like going oh really uh anyway he said I'll come I'll come and see you tomorrow and literally he jumped on a plane. I this is where I would say to you, the energy, the inspir he is a truly he's one of those people that you just kind of look up to and you go, Wow. And anyway, po he came into the office and came up and sat down to me and he said you know and we're chatting back and forth and he said to me he said um said we should be working together and I was like I was like, what? And he said, look, you've got to realize. And I was just like, oh, what have I got to realise? I was like, I was like, how do we work together firstly? And then secondly I was like, I was like, hell yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then I was like, Yeah, of course. And he said, you've got to realize that you could be obsolete in the future. And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, the watch world can do personalization. They will look at personalization. And either you you can be a part of the flow or you can be against the flow. And you know, soon people will will walk past and I was like, okay, so that's that was that kind of scary of the reality? And he said, you know, you've also got to be in the sun, not in the shade. And at the moment you're in the shade, and you need to be in the sun. And I was like, oh, okay, okay. And it was kind of back and forth, back and forth. And we're chatting and chatting and chatting. And then uh it was kind of what's the best way of describing it? I I went through some really hard times with my son. He was being born and and anyway I'm I'm going into something personal but basically I went through like a really hard like it was one of those things where, you know, it it you face life is probably the best way, you know, seeing you know, my wife described it on her podcast on her thing uh a little while ago, so that's why I'm happy it kind of saying but basically I I it was in a point where both I could have lost a quite a lot in my life on my family side of of my uh my kid and my wife. And so that basically and it was like it was like one of those kind of times where it was the darkest time. And I had a I had a message from a client saying, you know, I want this, this, where where's this? And I was like, oh Christ. And then I had a message from Jean-Claude Biffer and and he said, Are you okay? What can I do? And I just was like, can I sign? Can we sign? Can we can we become official? And it was just at that point, my life just became, you know, I in this darkest time, someone came and gave me a massive and you know, I don't think he knew that he was doing it at that time. And I think he doesn't even know the story behind it. But that was when I was just like, hell yes. And I was like, I'm gonna work my ass off. I'm gonna, you know, do whatever I can you know to make him proud and make make a brand that started off my business that was and the first ever watch that I true watch I owned was a uh Tag Hoyer Formula One Luminous dial. That was one of my first ever watches. And I was like, I want to work for that. And I want to work for Zenith and I really want to rock star, you know, I want to do as much as I can to help. So anyway, that's basically how uh you know story started and you know my business pivoted almost overnight and it was you know 48 hours with my son and life and crap like that and and after those 48 hours I, was like, hell yes we,' were we''rere we're going doing something else. And you know, the rest is almost history, you know, I stood and I miss Basel World in some ways because I stood on stage with him, launched the carbon moniker, Tag Hoya Monica. And for me, that was like it was like I don't know, the heavens opening, things happening, seeing Jean-Claude Beaver, having a hug, you know, just and I'm I'm a hug. I I'm one of these people that I like hugging. I like, you know, it's kind of one of those things and we were up on stage and I was just like, pinch me now. And, you know, I hold I I the the oddest thing is, you know, when I said to you gotta wanna steal it, well, uh it was the first time I properly saw the Monaco. So I'd designed it with the Taghoya team. I'd been back and forth, I was like, we've got to do a carbon monoco, we've got to do this sub-dial, sort of illuminate at night, just to reminisce of me sitting in my father's arm and watching Steve McQueen and just seeing those white sub-dars, I'd love it to be, you know, aquapli. All of those designs was just like, oh wow. Anyway, I was at the airport and I'd got the moniker still on my wrist and I was just like, and I phoned up the tagware team and that and I said I'm really sorry I've walked off thing and they said well you did say you're gonna want to steal it and I was just like oh yes oh yes oh yes and um so I and I don't know if you're meant to say that I stole something off the stage at Barcel World, but that's okay. But that watch is is the same. And you know, for me, and then coming to this the aqua racer we launched last year and doing this kind of it was the same kind of pinch moment in COVID, in the darkest times, developing a watch with Tag Hoyer and sitting there with Frederick Arno and me uh chatting about the titanium aquaracer and just going, This is another pinch moment, you know, to come out of darkness and see something and go, oh yeah, you know, this is damn cool. And you know, I I look back and I go, I was so you know, I've got this friend I remains nameless, but I I just thank her so much because she really pivoted my world. And you know, as everyone said, whenever you anytime Jean-Claude says, Hey, I'd like you to do this, you go, hell yes. And I'm I'm kind of looking back and going, hell yes, look at the journey I've been on. Look at the things I've done. You know, the brands that we're working with, Zenith, Jar Perigo, you know, that for me is so cool. Tag Hoya. I mean, like, Jesus christ i'm working with tag hoyer i mean like how cool is that i i i've got books i've got you know the hassling uh collection i've got i've got things that you just go oh my god and i'm working with these guys and you you just
Stephen Pulvirent go, it's awesome. I think for me, you know, one of my favorite things here is right, like your your enthusiasm is so contagious and it's something that you know, I I love when you and I get to sit and chat about watches. It's like, you know, even if it's a watch I never thought twice about, like by the time you and I are done talking, like, you know, I've got 20 of them pulled up on my phone trying to figure out which one to buy, right? And it's that excitement is amazing. And it's also, I think, oof, that is really pretty. I I think it's it's that excitement is important. And it's also the way you talk about these things, like it's so clear you're again like grounded in the history of these things. And I think that helps you take a brand like Taghoir or Zenith and kind of show them a different version of what their future can be. I mean, you've got, you know, not to blow your spot up too much, but like you've got a couple uh vintage El Primeros, you've got more than a couple vintage Hoyers, and like these are things you really love and that you've studied. like And you you said,'ve read the books. And you're not just coming to this thing and saying, like, oh, this is a square watch. Here's how we can make it look funky. It's here's the history of this thing, and here's what it means to people, and here's how we can take that all a step further and I I I think that's for me really exciting because it comes from it comes from a really deep place of of love and understanding, not just uh sort of aesthetic. Wow. Th
George Bamford ank you. Look, I I'm I'm not I'm not like most hoodinky readers in some ways is I'm not a serial number person because in my dyslexia I'm useless on numbers, I'm useless on I but I I I kind of care about you know the movement of course I care about the movement I care about the design I care about all of those sides of it but it's also I care about I you know I just showed you a casket. I I I got given for Christmas this this year. This is a watch that I've been trying to get for about three, four years. My wife gave it to me for my birthday this year. I mean, lucky man, very lucky that she found it. Gerard Perigo helped her and a few other friends helped us get it. And for me, it's been one of those things. There's been a lot of uh you know, a lot of people talking about the casket but I I love weird and wonderful I love that things that are different. I like that you know I love looking at your um when you look at Hudinky shop and you look at the vintage you,'ll have some real superstar rock star watches that are huge prices. And then you'll have these weird and wonderful doxers. And there was one recently that was like a surfing one that I can't what it was called. But you know, this weird watches that you just go, wow, that's cool. That color combination is cool, that functionality. You know, you think of a uh tidal time watch or a solnar or or and you know, I know I'm geeking out on Hoyas, but let's say, you know, a television beta 21 uh movement quartz patek. You know, that those ones are just damn cool. Now, if you saw one of those on someone's wrist versus a 300,000 pound one, you would go, oh my god, that's so cool. And you would you would you'd kind of if you're sitting in an airplane, I always thought this, if you sit in an airplane, you s look at someone else's wrist and you go, Wow. Or let's say an MB and F watch, you know, you sit next to someone that's wearing an MBNF watch and you go, that starts a conversation. You know, or Seiko, Grand Seiko. Oh, you know, we you and I talked about Seiko's and you know, you look at Seiko's and you go, Wow, why have you got that? What's the reason? What's the and that for me is it starts the conversation, yeah. Where something that everyone has seen, it's it you you become part of the background noise, not the not the person that becomes that thing of that conversation. And saying that, I put a watch on to make me happy, not to anyone else. Yeah. So anytime I put I put a pair of trainers or shoes on to make me happy, I put my clothes on to make me happy. Yes, I know if I went out naked everyone would go, well George, you shouldn't be doing that. So I I do put I do put clothes on to make but you know I I put put all of the stuff on and I put a watch on and look down and go, yeah, I'm looking at most of the time of the day. Definitely not setting the date right because I'm probably one of those weird people that I don't set the date right. But I put it on and I look down and I look at it probably maybe 40-50 times a day, maybe more, and I pick it off my wrist. I I'fm ever in a meeting, I'll pick it off my wrist and I'll feel the edging, I'll feel the strap, I'll fit because I because it's just one of those things that I go, yeah, this is it's a pleasure, it's a delight. And you know, you think of our senses, my eyes are loving it, listening to the movement, you know, my ears love it, and my touch, my senses. I'm uh, you know, sadly I can't eat the watch, but most of my senses are alive
Stephen Pulvirent because of it. Yeah. No, that's a really great point. And I I think happiness is kind of a good place for us to maybe wrap up here. Uh and and the idea of happiness as a part of watch collecting, I think is something that often gets overlooked. People take it very seriously. And I get it, you know, there's large, large amounts of money involved, tons of hours. But, you know, to me, it's like at the end of the day, if if a watch doesn't make you smile and doesn't make you happy, then kind of what what purpose is it serving? And another thing I've always kind of liked about your perspective here, and we see it across both Bamford Watch department things as well as your own brand, which we haven't really gotten a chance to talk about here, but Bamford London, you know, we'll have to we'll have to have you back and go deep on Bamford London. But what one of the things that tracks across both is you you always find a way to inject a sense of humor and a sense of lightness into your watches. They they never feel like they're taking themselves too seriously. And that can be use of color, it can be use of shape. It can also flat out be putting like a cookie monster on a watch dial. Like you recently did these watches with Sesame Street, and it's like, you know, I don't know too many grown people who would have the gumption let's, say, to say, like, yeah, I'm gonna make a cookie monster watch and it's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be a really well-made, cool, interesting cookie monster watch. And it's there to make you smile. And like, I love that. And I wonder kind of your your thoughts on that and what your motivation is behind that. Okay, so firstly
George Bamford , I don't believe in show ponies, so I don't believe a watch that sits in a safe. And especially when COVID first hit, I looked at cars, I looked at watches, and I realized that in theory we were about to hit the worst recession we were ever going to hit in life, and everything is worth zero. Am I happy with what's in my collection? Am I happy? Do they bring me joy? And if they don't bring me joy, then they need to go out of my life. So that was my first kind of like reality is every watch that I own actually makes me smile. It's you know, I put it on and I I love it. The cookie monster, you say about grown men, the one of the greatest designers in in Watchworld, and someone that really is, you know, every serious watch out there really owes a lot to is Gerald Jonator. Yeah. And he worked with Mickey Mouse. Yeah. He worked, you know, and so you you and none of this is new. You know, the thing is, I'm I'm looking at those things and going, God, they're cool. God, they're they're just damn cool. I want one of those. And if someone else wants it, and you know, Cookie Monster um has sold out, sorry, but we we d I think we have one or two Elmos left, but that's it really. But it makes you smile. Exactly. And that's for me on everything is when you look down at it, you know, Snoopy I love Snoopy, I love Cookie Monster, I love Popeye, we worked with Popeye earlier. They're things that you just go, I love them, you know, I'm I don't know if you remember, but the old Snoopy watches where they had a tennis racket and going round and trying to hit the ball and things like that. That just I you know why why do we have to be in some ways serious about certain things? You know, the watch world is one of these things that, you know, it's like we have to take this really seriously. And I'm like going, well, do we really do we we do actually go to ourselves and say, let's enjoy this, let's love it, wear that watch and enjoy it? You know, I I I relish in the first dink on a watch, and everyone goes, Oh my god, you've got a dink on it. But I relish it because that's the first thing that it makes it mind. Yeah. Makes it makes it part of my history. And I think that's where I look at all of this and go, I I don't know. I love the pre-age things of the double RL and things like you know, if you take fashion in some ways, I always loved when something had been worn and loved and because you were like, it it's now mine, I can put my history in it. And a brand new watch, I think that is now I'm starting the chapter on the story of this. You know, my Skipahoya, the uh Hodinki Skipperhoya, sorry I had to correct. It' gots multiple dents. It's got multiple scuffs. It's got and it's it's it's done X amount of barbecues. It's been, you know, everywhere with me. And every bit I could say to you, yeah, I did it for here, I did this, I did that. But I love it. Yeah. And that for
Stephen Pulvirent me is mine. Yeah, I I love that, George. And and I think, you know, that's that's actually kind of a perfect place for us to end this, which is they're yours, right? Like these watches ultimately are a reflection of you, whether it's the watches you're collecting, the watches you're creating. And I don't know, for me, that's that's a cool thing for our listeners to take away is that you know, you don't just have to be kind of collecting the right reference numbers or, you know, owning the same watches as everybody else, but that like your watch collecting and your watch buying can be a real genuine expression of you and a way to connect with the world and to connect with other people. And you know, George, we obviously met through the watch world and I'm I I am very happy to say we're we're friends well beyond that now. And it's definitely it's so nice that through these tiny little mechanical things that, you know, with flashes of color and little complications can we we can meet friends and and you know, say things about ourselves and our perspectives on the world. So definitely take one thing away from this, I think that's that's maybe kind of the perfect place for us to to end up here. I totally agree
George Bamford . And I I would say look, you know, I I I look at things, watch collecting doesn't need to be a fortune and that's the great thing. So I I really, you know, go and go and find what's yours. Um thank you so much. This has been an absolute treat. I and uh as I said at the beginning, an honor. It really is an honor to be on this and to be a part of the Hoodinky Radio. I've wished to be a part of it and thank you very
Stephen Pulvirent much for inviting me. It is purely my fault that we haven't made this happen sooner. So I'm glad we could get you on the show. And uh I have a funny feeling you'll be you'll be back sometime soon. Well I'm always here if if you need me. So I'd love to. Thank you so much. Awesome. Thank you my friend. Take care