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The 2021 Independent Watchmaking Fantasy Draft

Published on Mon, 17 May 2021 10:00:00 +0000

The wonderful, weird, and wild of contemporary horology go head-to-head-to-head.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent conducts a fantasy draft focused on independent watchmaking with colleagues Cole Pennington, Danny Milton, and John Brozek. The four participants draft collections of watches exclusively from independent watchmakers—small, artisanal brands where the maker's name typically appears on the dial, rather than major manufacturers like Rolex or Patek Philippe.

Each participant must fill four categories: a sport watch, a dress watch, a complication (beyond time and date), and a budget pick under $2,000. The draft proceeds in snake order with Danny picking first. Notable selections include Danny's H. Moser Pioneer Mega Cool and Naoya Hida Type 2A, Stephen's Roger Smith Series 1 and MB&F Legacy Machine Perpetual, Cole's Sinn U50 and Hajime Asaoka's Kurono Tokyo Mori, and John's Grönefeld GMT Sport and F.P. Journe Chronomètre à Résonance.

Throughout the discussion, the participants emphasize the personal connections and passion behind independent watchmaking, highlighting how these watchmakers often respond directly to customers and create watches driven by creativity rather than market research. They debate the value propositions of various pieces, from $1,100 Baltic watches to platinum F.P. Journe chronographs, and discuss what makes independent watchmaking special—the collaboration, craftsmanship, and individual vision of the makers. The episode concludes with an invitation for listeners to vote on their favorite collection on the Hodinkee website, with results to be revealed in a future episode.

Transcript

Speaker
Stephen Pulvirent And I think again, thinking about kind of what I'm trying to achieve here with my collection in this draft is to capture, I think what I love about independent watchmaking. And this watch is really like a deep cooperation and collaboration between many different people. Like it's to me like the most meaningful contribution to independent watchmaking, the spirit of cooperation, the spirit of all kind of being in this together and sharing our passions and trying to create the coolest things we can by working together and being creative as opposed to kind of like, you know, focus grouping things and thinking about test markets and blah blah blah. Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinky Radio. We are back with another Hodinki Radio fantasy draft, and this time we're talking all things independent watchmaking. I've got Cole, I've got Danny, and I've got John, and we're gonna draft collections focused around the indie watchmakers. And I don't mean the Rolexes and Patek Philippe's of the world. I mean the MBFs and the Philippe Dufour's and the Roger Smiths of the world. I'm talking about artisanal watchmaking, watchmaking where the name on the dial is probably the name of the person who made it or at least designed it. We're gonna draft in a variety of categories, it's exciting as usual, and as always, you're gonna get to vote on the winner. So listen to the draft and then make sure you go to hodinky.com, find the post, it'll be linked up in the show notes, and vote for which collection you think is the best. And let us know in the comments why you voted the way you did. Without further ado, let's do this. Hey guys, how you doing? I'm well, how are you? Hey Steven. Hey there, SJP. Good. We're in what? We're in three locations today. We got two guys, or actually four. We got New York, DC, Bangkok, and Santa Monica, right? Yeah. Global Empire. That's right. Man, oh man. I I'll give the audience uh zero guesses to figure out which of the four of us is in Thailand while the three of us are are chilling in uh, you know, major metropolitan American cities. Well, guys, we're back to do another fantasy draft. I believe this is Danny's first. Are you are you a rookie, Danny? I'm a rookie in the draft. All right. Let's see. Uh let's see if you're gonna win a a Calder trophy here. I'll go with the NHL because that's what I know best. What's the what's the rookie of the year in like the NFL called? You're talking to an NBA guy about the NFL. Falling on deaf ears. All right. We'll we'll stick with the Calder trophy then. I'm I'm I'm going NHL here. Yeah, let's see if Danny can pull off a call or win here. We're gonna focus on independent watchmaking today. You know, we've we've gotten big releases in 2021 so far from a lot of the major brands with this mostly digital trade show situation, you know, the Rolexes, the Paddocks, the Longas, the Cartiers, the Tag Hoyers, like we've we've seen their watches. And I thought it was a good chance for us to focus on some of the, some of the smaller guys, you know? So we're gonna do a draft of all independent watchmakers. And I know there's people probably saying, oh, you said Rolex and Paddock and they're independent. It's like, yes, you're right, like they're not owned by the quote unquote groups. But when we say independent here, we're we're talking about like independent watchmaking with a capital I. So that means no Rolex and Tutor, no paddock. We're not even going to talk about like AP or Brightling or Seiko and Grand Seiko, like we're talking about small upstart independent watchmakers. That that makes sense to you guys, right? Yeah
John Brozek . I mean would you say it's fair to say like artisanal watchmaking or like a brand where there's like a person associated with
Stephen Pulvirent it. Yeah, I mean that's definitely part of it. I think there are some I think we'll get into it, but I think some of our picks will be the kind of situation like what you're talking about where like the person who makes the watch and design the watch, their name is on the dial. And then there will be situations where there are smaller brands that were either revived or started by a group or a small uh collection of people. So it'll be a mix. But yeah, I I think that is much more in line with what we're talking about here. The the spirit of independent watchmaking as opposed to like whether or not their corporate structure is independent makes more sense. Fair. Totally. All right. So other than that, there's very few rules. Uh, you know, as with all drafts, I'm I'm gonna give you some buckets you have to fill here. We've we've already talked about these, but I'll share them with the audience here. You know, each of us has to pick a sport watch, a dress watch, a complication, which means something that's more than time and date, and then a budget pick. So for this round, we're gonna set the budget is two thousand US dollars. And that's pre-tax, whatever. Like we're not gonna start calculating sales tax. But if like the sticker price is under 2000 US, you can pick it as your budget pick. As usual, you can't trade draft picks, you can't pick something somebody else has already picked, all that usual stuff. And uh, you know, our producer Gray is busy shooting a really incredible video right now. So I picked our draft order with a random number generator with you guys on the call before we started recording. So everything is kosher and and above board. We're gonna do a snake draft and we're gonna pick in this order. It's gonna be Danny, me, Cole, and then John. And then because it's a snake draft, John picks again and it loops back. And we'll do essentially Okay. Sounds good to me. I got the number one pick. Can't complain. All right. Let's uh let's get into this, guys. Let's let's do this thing. Danny, you are on the clock with pick number one in the Hodinki independent watchmaking fantasy draft. Let's go. All right.
Danny Milton With the first pick in the 2021 independent watchmaking draft. I'm going to be selecting a new watch from this year that I think got some love, but not a huge amount. And it's out there. I'm going with Moser, but probably, you know, the more tame of the Moser designs to come out in 2021, let's just say. I'm going with the Mega Cool. So it's the Pioneer Mega Cool, and I picked it. This will be my sport watch selection because to me it is a sport watch, even though you know I think it's uh around twelve grand uh uh is the price point there. Oh no, fifteen fifteen three, which is expensive for a sport watch, but it's undoubtedly, you know, a steel sport watch is what they're going for. I think it kind of represents a really modern execution of a sport watch design. So it's unabashedly modern. It's not that crazy minimalist kind of effect that Moser goes for usually, or also the way out there stuff like the pixelated eraser watch that they released earlier this year. It's balanced, so you've got an actual logo on the dial, even though it's transparent. You've got a really conventional dial layout, luminous markers, luminous hands. They took the hands from the streamliner watches, so it's actually a really cool handset on this watch. It's on the large side, it's like just under 43 millimeters, but I think all of that just kind of adds up to what to me amounts to an independent brand unafraid to sort of release what would be a conventionally modern sport watch execution. You're read
Stephen Pulvirent ing your own article off, aren't you? Didn't article on this? I just wrote all of that off of the article. Danny's got this shit on lock. I think that's a strong pick. I think uh I I, you know, in kind of my debates, I personally, and I don't think this is going to be true for everyone, I found the sport watch category maybe the hardest thing to pick for here, but I think Moser's sport watches still feel like quote unquote indie watches. Like they still have that kind of like quirkiness and personality. And uh I think I think that's a strong pick, Danny. I think, you know, some people might be surprised uh to hear a a brand new Moser go first overall. But I think when this draft is over, I I have a hard time believing that you're gonna regret taking that. Cole's wavering on my pick. He's not sure. Yeah, people can't
Cole Pennington see the zoom call. It's a sport watch. It's a dress watch. What's the water resistance on that gu
Danny Milton y? Yeah. There you go. John's picking up what I'm putting down here. A hundred and twenty meters. A hundred and twenty meters is nothing to scoff at for a sport watch. That's fine. That's that's plenty, actually. You're right. I would have knew less. That's pl
Stephen Pulvirent enty. All right. I'm gonna jump in now and uh I'm gonna go the total opposite direction. I'm gonna go with my dress watch, and I'm not gonna pick the watch that I think all three of you probably think I'm gonna pick. I bet everyone on this call and anyone who's listened to the show for any sustained period of time, thinks I'm going a crivia here. I think people think I'm going chronometh contemporane. Yes. I'm not. And the reason I'm not is for two reasons. It's two reasons I'm not. I feel like I'm doing like a Monty Python bit here. So the two reasons, just two reasons, I'm not one, I actually for me don't think of that watch as a dress watch. To me, it's kind of like an everyday watch, you know, in quotes. You can definitely dress it up and wear it with a suit. You could wear it with a tuxedo. It would look freaking amazing. But I think specifically in a white metal with the white dial, I think that's more of an everyday style. And I I wanted to stay true to this and pick like a real like dress watch, a watch that I like don't know if I'd feel comfortable wearing without like a shirt with a collar or a jacket, you know? The other reason is because I don't think anyone making watches today represents the true spirit of independent watchmaking better than this watchmaker. I'm gonna go with a Roger Smith series one. Good point. Roger Smith is maybe the greatest living watchmaker. Yeah. He was the apprentice of inarguably the greatest watchmaker of the 20th century. He makes watches his way in a small workshop with a tight-knit group of people, kind of out at the end of the world on the Isle of Man. His watches are unlike anything anybody else is producing. There's no way to get like a Roger Smith style watch for like less money or at a big like kind of big chain watch store. Like you either have to do it or not. And there are no compromises. And I I mean add to that that like Roger is one of the nicest human beings I have ever met. And if I had the means, I would want to buy his watches purely so that he as a human being could like wake up every morning and do the thing he loves. So yeah, I'm gonna go Roger Smith Series one. I would do it in yellow gold, super traditional dial, frosted movement finishing, like as OG British watchmaking Roger Smith as you could get. That is my long-wind
John Brozek ed pick for dress watch. I can't say I'm surprised to see Roger Smith go very early in the first round. That's quite
Cole Pennington a pick. Yeah. And and what this means to me is that if Steven doesn't consider the Acrivia a dress watch, then it might turn up later in another category is what I'm what I'm hearing. But let's see. Unless somebody else nabs it. I don'
Stephen Pulvirent t know, guys. This is this is where the gamesmanship comes in. Let's uh let's let's see. It's been floated out into the ether, so it's flow it's out there for anyone to take at this point. Yeah. And to be clear, like I think it could be a dress watch. Like if somebody else picked it in a dress watch, like I'm not gonna give you any guff here as the the like de facto commissioner here with gray out. But uh yeah, I I just for me, if I'm thinking independent dress watch, I I literally don't think there is a better independently made dress watch on the planet than the Roger Smith series one. Uh-huh. I'm with you. Cool. You are up with the third overall pick. And then John gets two. So all of us gotta hope that you take something good, and then John doesn't totally screw the rest of us here and take all the good st
Cole Pennington uff in the middle. So I will. I'll take something good that I think is one of those watches that someone other than me probably picked as well. I'm gonna go complicated first. And I won't, you know, do some big build up to the watch. I'll just say what it is. It is. The uh the Jorne chronometry à résonance pardon my French or lack of it. Did anyone was anyone gonna pick that one or
Stephen Pulvirent no? Ah Steven. I got my head up the mirror. I was up between two watches, but uh the resonance is is another one that like if that watch hadn't gone top five here, I would
Cole Pennington have been kind of shocked. Yeah. And and for me, why I mean I'll I'll be totally honest, like this is not usually my style. Like however, to me, this is most akin to magic in watchmaking. Like m mechanical watchmaking and so forth. It is, you know, to the uninitiated is magic to begin with, but even once you learn a thing or two, just to wrap your head around the whole concept of this watch, takes an hour of talking to Jack and then watching that HSNY presentation on it, and then reading about it. And then sitting down and having a beer and thinking about it, and then going to sleep. And then maybe the next day you kind of understand what what this watch is about. So to me, yeah, that's why I'm fascinated by it. And it would be my my complicated watch. And I would do it in platinum with the white gold dial. So kind of stealthy. So I apologize if I took this one, but
Stephen Pulvirent just had to do it, you know? Yeah, you got to. I mean, I agree with you, Cole. I think this is this is one of those things where like you show it to somebody who doesn't know watchmaking and try to explain it to them and you just like watch their eyes cross, you know, like they like it is totally incomprehensible in a way that's exciting as opposed to like frustrating. Yeah. I I this is one of the first like really serious watches I ever encountered. And I remember like this must have been like 2011, two thousand twel.ve And I remember just being like, I I get it. Like now I get I understand why people are so excited about this. Yeah, it's it it's mind blowing and I'm glad I nabbed that one early on. Yeah. Yeah. I honestly I'm glad you did too. Mr. Buse, let's go uh four first. Take take your fourth over
John Brozek all pick. All right. Okay. My fourth overall pick is going to come from a brand that I've loved for as long as I've been like in this biz. It is still one of my favorite independent brands. They have an investment from Reishmont, I believe, in them, but I don't think that would should disqualify them here because they are to me they they in a way symbolize independence so i'm talking about groble forcing and i'm going to go with the sport gmt on the integrated bracelet wow and i'm taking this as my sport watch why because i i think this is really when you're talking about independent watchmaking, this might be the sport watch of the currently available lot of watches out there that one could expect to be able to hopefully buy. I haven't actually gone hands-on with this watch personally, but just the quality of the integration of the bracelet into that like wonderfully elliptical case, the shaping. And then the fact that you get, you know, a complication in the GMT that really to me has become kind of like a hit for Gribble Forcey. It's something that I think for a long time. It can you know, of course it continues to be, you know, inclined uh torbillons and things like that, but I do think that their depiction of the GMT is up there too, is a kind of emblematic of this brand and what they do. A lot of times, I think we may see this borne out in the course of this conversation. When you talk about independent watchmaking, you're looking at maybe like amazing complications, movements that are finished to with an inch of their life. But this to me is like a really unique design just from like a case shape standpoint. And so I think it's it it's it's a little bit extra special. Yeah. Not to not to rattle on here, but I that's that's my pick for the for the first of
Stephen Pulvirent my two. Yeah, I I totally agree, John. I think this is a really special watch. And I I think it's it's interesting that the first Group of Forzy to be taken, and I say first because I wouldn't be shocked if another one gets picked, is the sport watch, which I think is like a kind of controversial thing from them and and kind of unusual. But yeah, I mean, investment from Richemont be damned, like this is one where like, okay, uh, you know, AP is like quote unquote wholly independent, but like this feels much more like a uh an independent watch, you know, same thing with like a Rolex or whatever, you know, not not singling AP out here. But yeah, if if anyone listening, like if you ever have the chance to go see Stephen Forzy speak, whether it's at an event or whether he's, you know, doing visits at a retailer or whatever, like go listen to Stephen Forzy talk about watches. That for me and and John, I know you've been in some of these meetings with me before, like at the old SIHH, like it was always a treat to get 30 minutes in a room with Stephen Forzy, a like literal pile of amazing watches, and a couple of loops. And like it was essentially like getting a 30-minute master class on watchmaking. And I think every time you encounter one of their watches, it's kind of like that. So I think it's a brilliant pick. I don't I don't know Cole and Danny what you guys think, but that that to me is is a another one that like I'm glad a Gruble went in the first ro
Danny Milton und of the draft. Yeah, I agree. I think it it won't be the last we hear of Gruble not giving anything away from my picks, but I think it won't be the last we hear in this draft. A
Stephen Pulvirent mazing. All right, John. Let's let's go with uh let's start round number two. Let's go with pick number five. What are you what are you
John Brozek taking after that? And well it's not surprising that this gentleman, uh Mr. Jorn had a watch during the first round. He w he is also going to have one yeah early in the second round with uh the chronograph Roger Pond and I'm taking it in platinum. Ah platinum purple dial baby. Oh yeah that's the one I'm going for and this will be my complication we'll say. Even though it it could have been a sports watch too. This is an another case where uh I'm I'm leaning into uh into the sporty side of independent watchmaking, we'll say. But uh I mean why pick this? I mean, this is a watch that it has like the size, but in a good way. You know, it's a 44 millimeter watch that I totally could see myself wearing, and I can't say that about many 44 millimeter watches, to be honest. The movement is spectacular. I mean, we we shot it and blew it up and put it in the magazine uh one time uh for a reason because this, I mean this watch is is unreal in so
Stephen Pulvirent many ways. I got to shoot this watch with a at the time I think it was 55 megapixel Hasselblatt. Wow that we that Jack had on one and we just so happened to get this watch in the office at the same time. Like I still pull those pictures up occasionally and they still crush my MacBook. Like it sounds like it's gonna melt when I'm I'm editing them. But man, this watch blew my socks off the first time I saw it. I'm I'm totally with you. Like a 44 millimeter purple dial platinum chronograph on a platinum bracelet is like, it sounds like a joke. It sounds like a thing he would make up, but it's amazing. It's so compelling. So yeah. I mean dan Danny and Cole, have either of you guys seen this watch in the metal? Not in the metal.
Danny Milton I have not. Yeah, no. There's a ton of watches I haven't seen in the metal that needs to be fixed, you know, pretty quickly. I need to see a lot of things in the metal, Steven. Should that
Stephen Pulvirent be the next draft that you watch as Danny hasn't seen in person yet draft? I think that's good. Awesome. John, I think those are two super strong picks. Cole, you you get no pressure, but uh how how are you gonna follow up Grubel and Jorn right there? Um actu
Cole Pennington ally so what I'll do is go kind of the other way, you know? We'll bring it back. So I will be choosing my dress watch and I'm gonna go with something that's let's see if you can even guess what it is. It's about three thousand dollars. So it's not necessarily that expensive. It uses a Miyota movement, which I know you guys are thinking, hmm, what could this be? Oh, I know what this is. Is it from Japan, maybe? It is. It is from Japan. Alright. I won't steal your thunder. Yeah, it's the Korono Tokyo. Specifically the Mori watch is what I'm going with, because it's time only, so that could it be a sports watch or what you would call an everyday watch? I guess for me, my baseline for everyday, this is a little bit more fancy. So this would be a dress watch for me, to be honest. Yeah. And I like the brand a few reasons why. So it's a sub-brand of Hajime Asooka, and he makes you know $50,000 watches, right? He he's like, those are the kind of watches we were just talking about, that level. This is a sub brand that is a a bit more experimental, has developed a cult following in recent I don't know, two years, I guess I would say. And I like a few things about it. One, a tiered ordering system to make it fair for everyone. Two, he's got a system that kind of uh he monitors the secondary market and tries to stabilize prices and actually bans flippers from buying his watches, which is something I know we hear all the time, you know, complaining about the the big guys. They don't do that. So I like it for a few reasons. And and the other is that there are other big Japanese brands that love to take inspiration from nature, Japanese mythology, so forth. But it's sort of um sometimes it can feel forced at times. And I think the reason why is because it's usually amorphous and it's not specific. And that's beautiful in its own right. But what I like about Karunatokyo is that it really zooms in on hyper-specific pieces of culture and elements of nature for inspiration. And the marketing copy points to that. And the price is right. And I know, you know, this is a draft you should blow it up with the crazy stuff. But I'll just say, like I really appreciate the ideology behind this watch. And and yes, I have seen this one in the metal, and it's very cool. It's a beautiful green dial. Have you all seen it in the metal or no? I
Stephen Pulvirent have not. I saw one only when um Asa Okstan came to the launch of Hodinki Japan when we were there and brought a few watches with him. So I saw them in a dark room in a cocktail party, but uh he was extremely kind and uh it was it was really a treat to get to to chat with him and see these pieces. So you've seen it in the most
Cole Pennington authentic setting per se from the man himself. So that that's that's great. So yeah, that's my pick there. I think uh different cult brand, but um
Stephen Pulvirent that's what I'll say for my dress watch. Nice. I think that's a good pick. I'm gonna jump in here and go with my pick. I'm gonna go with my complication. I'm gonna pick something from MBNF. I'm gonna go with the legacy machine perpetual. This is a watch again, talking about larger watches. You know, I'm I'm not somebody who's typically wearing watches of that size. I believe this is 44, but it's extremely well executed. The perpetual calendar was designed by this guy, Stephen McDonnell, brilliant watchmaker. Um, worked with Max Boosser. He's, I guess in this case, one of the end friends in uh MBNF. The watch is stunning. And and I think there are two executions of it that I really like. Uh there's the platinum one and then there's the titanium one. The platinum has a blue kind of background to the dial. The titanium has this sort of like teal green color uh that's kind of strange and unique that they use for their titanium pieces. It's awesome. And I think it's it's it's a legacy machine that feels like really MB and F. Like it feels kind of out there, but it's still I think classic enough that like I could wear it and it wouldn't be weird, you know, like I love HM4 or I love, I thought about, you know, picking the aquapod and the sport category here, but like realistically, those are not watches I'm gonna wear day in and day out. This is a watch I would proudly wear like anywhere. You know, you could wear it with a sweatshirt, you could wear it with a tux. It'd be awesome. And I think again, thinking about kind of what I'm trying to achieve here with my collection in this draft is to capture, I think what I love about independent watchmaking and this watch is really like a deep cooperation and collaboration between many different people. Like it's the emphasis is on the friends part of MBF. And I think you know, looking at what Max has created with MBNF, that is to me like the most meaningful contribution to independent watchmaking from MBNF is the spirit of cooperation, the spirit of all kind of being in this together and sharing our passions and trying to create the coolest things we can by working together and being creative as opposed to kind of like, you know, focus grouping things and thinking about test markets and blah blah blah
Danny Milton . I was afraid you were going to go with the frog and, I'm glad you didn't. Not that I was gonna pick it. Oh boy. Okay. False flag operation. I'm just throwing things out there to not know what so people don't know what I'm going to pick. I'm I'm a real wild
Stephen Pulvirent card today. Danny's just throwing decoys left and right. He's he's trying to he's trying to influence the draft here. I love it. Uh he's he's like the GM on the fake phone call in the middle of the actual draft. There's a broader plan at play here, everybody. Just don't know it yet. Alright, I'm following suit
Danny Milton with complication here, but I'm going with something a little more classically designed, I would say. So I'm going Laurent Ferrier with my choice. And I'm going with the and I'm gonna probably mess up the pronunciation, so I'm not going to try, but I'm going with the Gil Galais annual calendar, the montre école or the school watch, which I think is just a a beautiful execution of an annual calendar. I'm a sucker for dial design, despite the fact that the movement in this watch is is incredible. Um, but when it comes to the uh design of typeface for numerals and the way that the annual calendar here is set up, which is just so effortlessly easy to read, I could just see myself wearing this to, be honest with you, a lot of my picks, just to give a little insight into how I'm picking these, are things that I really would like to wear. You know, not not just that I think in some fantasy world, you know, could I pick the craziest thing, but when I look at this watch, you know, it has roots in Laurent Ferrier's time with Patek Philippe, and you can see that in the complication, also the layout of the dial. I think it also takes inspiration from a lot of mid-century watch design of this kind, which is just obvious when you look at it, especially in the white dial execution, which is probably my favorite one because you have the red 31 and the blue numerals going around and also the red hand for the date indicator. And I think it's just just an awesome watch. Have at it, boys.
Cole Pennington Poke holes in it. What's wrong with the pick? Great pick. I I was thinking you were gonna do the the one with the torpillo that's not visible. Yeah, yeah. You can only see it through the case back. I think that's that's the one for me. But you went a little diff
Stephen Pulvirent erent than that. I like it. Hidden turbines all day, Cole. I actually thought about taking the uh and I'm not again I'm gonna give away a watch here that I'm not taking. I thought about for complication taking the uh Grubble Forzy Quadruple Secret Turbillon, which is two nested turbions, both only visible through the case back, which to me is like if you can have a watch, I think that watch is like $800,000 or something, $600,000. It's over half a million bucks. I I'm I'm 99% sure. Jeez. If you can spend over half a million bucks on a watch whose main features are both hidden between the dial and the bat and your wrist, most of the time. Like that's that's a pretty gangster move and I'm uh I'm kind of all about it. Same. All right, Danny. I I think that's a great pick. You now get to take another pick back to back, but you now don't pick till the end of the draft. So you get this pick and then our final pick. Uh what are you gonna take to start the third round? So I'm gonna
Danny Milton go equally weird, but I but hey, I'm going dress watch and I'm going with a relatively new independent brand with this one, and I'm gonna go with the Naoya Hita Type 2A. I know we've covered it a little bit as of late. I find it to be you know, I think Eric Ku wrote a piece for the site recently kind of singing the praises of this watch, which brought it back into my mind's eye a little bit. About I think two months ago, I did one of these one-to-watch uh articles that we run on a watchmaker called Christian Lass and came to really appreciate uh dial engraving um a lot more than I ever had before, especially like really well executed dial engraving. And this watch for the 12, 3, 6, and 9, I just find myself zooming in on that dial and really appreciating just how well, you know, they are engraved, what a simple design it is. Similar to Steven, I own a Rolex Explorer and I see a lot of that kind of design language in a watch like this, but in a much dressier format. And considering that I'm used to watches that kind of look this way, if I were to wear a dress watch, this would be you, know a, no-date, simple dial design, despite the fact that it is not, it is decidedly not affordable, you know, especially for a brand as new as it is. It's about a $20,000 watch. But I think with the way, you know, the craftsmanship behind it, you know, I I think it kind of earns that that price. Yeah, I'm g
Stephen Pulvirent onna jump in here real quick, Danny, and say that first off, Hidasan is the man. He's been like deeply involved in Japanese watch culture for like, you know, well over a decade, I think close to two decades now, was involved when FP Jorn opened their boutique there. Like he's he's been in the industry for a while in ways that are like mostly quiet and kind of secret. So you're you're kind of buying into like a little bit of like contemporary Japanese watch history, I guess. Um he's also a super nice guy and like really cool and fun. Um got to hang out with him a little bit on my last trip to Tokyo. And then you you mentioned that the watch is decidedly not inexpensive. Um, and I think that brings up a really interesting thing that independent watchmaking can kind of tackle in ways that maybe more traditional brands can't, and that's where the value in a watch lies. I think if we came on this pod and you uh picked a watch that was, you know, $20,000, but that engraving effort was put into the movement decoration, nobody would blink. Like if you said there's a watch, it's $20,000, it has a hand frosted and hand-engraved movement, it's beautiful, whatever, like the case is fine, the dial's fine, whatever, but the movement's beautifully decorated. People would be claiming to buy one. However, when you say, oh, it's got a modified 7750 in it and a pretty like standard but nicely finished case, oh, but the dial is stunning. People like, oh, why would I pay $20,000 for a dial engraving? But it's like, that's what you look at all day. You know, like that's the thing you actually see. And so, I mean, this is probably a conversation for another time, but I I would say to anyone who who thinks that this watch, quote unquote, like isn't worth it? Like, go see one. Just see it. Just have an open mind. Try to see one and see what you think then. Like maybe you'll still think that. Maybe that's not what you value about watchmaking. But like for me, I think the amount of effort and the sort of clarity of vision and the quality of execution on Hidasan's dials are as good as the kind of like movement engineering and movement finishing on comparably priced independent brands. I don't know. I agree it's not an inexpensive watch, but I would I would kind of like push back against anyone who would argue like, oh, it's overpriced, blah, blah, blah.
Danny Milton Can I also say based on our conversation last week, it has a completely closed and totally, almost totally clean case back. Yeah. Which is a really confident move to do on a watch
Stephen Pulvirent like that. I don't want for Hidasan. I don't know. Maybe I'm totally blowing up his spot here, but like I bet you if you ordered one and you asked, he would engrave something really nice on the back for you. Like I bet he'd do it. So if you're looking for a watch that you want like a special engraving for, I know he's sold I believe he's sold out for this year. I don't think he can produce any more watches in 2021. They're all ordered, but you know, whatever. We'll link it up in the show notes. Go check it out if you're interested. All right. So I'm I'm gonna jump in here and do my pick next. This is speaking about price and value a watch that I know there's been some debate over. So have at it, guys, but uh I'm gonna go with for my sport watch. I might be uh stealing something from Cole here, I guess. Maybe. Okay. I'm gonna go with the SUF 180 field watch. That was my second pick, actually. Not my first but that that really was okay I had to have a backup because I I was pretty sure John and Danny weren't gonna pick that watch but I thought you might because I know you wrote about it and I know you really liked it. Loved it. I'd probably go with the black dial version with the like Fotina loom. I know again, people are gonna get like all mad at me about Fotina. I think it's awesome. I think the choice of a blued second hand there is killer. This is the sort of like lower priced brand and lower prices in quotes, scare quotes here from Stepan Sarpaneva, another one of my like favorite people in watchmaking. Like any chance I get to like hang out with Stepan and have like I was gonna say a beer, it's usually like four beers, is is a fun one. I think he's one of the most creative people in watchmaking. I think he like genuinely doesn't care at all what anyone else thinks of what he does. Like he's making stuff he loves, and like as long as he can keep the lights on, he's happy. And I really respect that. But I'll say like some of the more out there stuff he does is like not my bag. And I I respect it. It's just not for me. And that's fine. But this watch like kind of still has a little bit of that while still being a like a watch I would wear on a daily basis. Like, you know, Danny's already brought up the Explorer. This is a watch with like a black dial and Arabic numerals and three hands and no bullshit. And it's great. And like the case is really nicely finished and the dial is beautifully designed. And it comes on a thoughtful strap. It comes on a a like Marie Nationale style, like Erica's original's elastic strap. It's great. And like, sure, it's about $3,500 US, which is not nothing. You know, you're getting close to like entry-level Rolex territory there if you're looking for an everyday sport watch. But you're not gonna see anybody else wearing one of these, you know? Like if you do, you know that you should be friends with that person. And yeah, I I just wanted to get Stepon in here. I think if we're talking about watchmaking, like he's a must include great pick, Steven. Awesome pick.
Cole Pennington Yeah, I'm I'm behind that pick too. Yeah. That was literally I I was kind of you know waffling between that and and the one that I will pick. But the coolest thing to me, I got to write that watch up it feels like forever ago. Like it actually feels like forever ago, but and there have been various iterations since then. No date, different dial colors, so forth. But to me, that I don't think anybody else, so we talked about the sub-brand of um Asaokisan and so forth, every other project of an independent watchmaker is generally congruent with most of their designs. This one is nothing like it. So you have a traditional field watch from someone who is like a Picasso or abstract artist or something, which is just super, super cool. So I I I respect that pick, Steven. You you might win this draft just because of this. I do I get Cole's vote
Stephen Pulvirent ? That's awesome. I love it. I'll take it. I won't vote for myself. So I will vote for you actually. All right. We'll do that this time around. None of us can vote for ourselves. All right, Cole. I mean you said you were gonna make a pick, so let's let's have you make your third
Cole Pennington round pick. So I'll follow it up with the the sport watch pick then. And it's actually it's a great thing that James isn't on this one because I know he would take this. And I and I know where you're going. Yeah. Danny knows. I mean it's an obvious choice from from this year if you're talking sport watch. What do you think it is, Danny? What what country is it from? It's from Switzerland. Mm. Negative. It's not really. Oh, so I'm way off. John, do you think you know what it is? Is it from Canada? Uh nope. Steven? I have no idea. It's from Germany. Okay. Oh, oh, oh, oh. It's okay. Yeah. It's the SYN U50. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. It's it's just a great all-around sports watch. And uh I mean it's been discussed at length in various posts and so forth, but I think for me strikes all the right notes and and the one problem I have had with Sin traditionally, which I think Stephen you might run into with the uh SUF might be it's a little bit bigger than most of the watches you like. Yeah, it is. It is for sure. And most of the sins are a little bit bigger than the dive watches I like, but this one is appropriately sized. So forty one millimeters, less than twelve millimeters thick. It's the perfect size. And you get segmented steel, you get that interesting sin aesthetic, which you know you know it's a sin right away. There's nothing else like it. And that to me, so you might say, well, sin doesn't come to mind when we're talking about independent, but I think that's not really true. Like sin has developed a very specific design language. They've carried it through for decades now. And just when we're talking about a a proper sports watch that you can actually like you really will go out and use, this is it for me. Sounded like a dig Cole, the one you can actually use. Who whose pick are you taking? No, no. I nah. I'm not. I'm just saying. I wouldn't want to put some scratches into a watch that's, you know, months worth of salary, right? I me
Stephen Pulvirent an Dude, I think that that Jorn uh chronograph in platinum beat to shit would look amazing. That's fair. Oh yes. That's fair. If if anyone at FP Jordan wants to uh loan me a platinum uh split second, a platinum retro pot to beat up, uh I'll uh I' Ill I'll h
Danny Milton appily conduct that experiment. That's
Stephen Pulvirent a strong choice though, Cole. The watch internet buzz
Danny Milton is strong on that watch too right now. You're you
Cole Pennington 're gonna get a lot of votes for that watch, Cole. And it's not and I will say this it's not simply because I know it's going to get a lot of votes. And I think it's that's another brand that like this is a very like TGN watch or you know like outdoorsy watch. It yes, but that's actually the watch I would I would wear. So Danny you, said the theme of your collections watch is wat youches would actually wear, which I should hope so. But it's also the theme of my collection too. Like these are just watches I want to wear. If I win, great. Yeah. I'll give myself a pat on the back. If I don't, that's all right. I still want to wear these watches. Tot
Stephen Pulvirent ally. All right, John. You get your last two picks. So you're in that spot where you only pick twice, but you get to pick two at a time. What are you going to take to close out the third round? Okay. I mean,
John Brozek I I kind of feel like I have to take this watch because it's still on the table. It's gonna be my dress watch. I can't believe it hasn't come up yet. Romaine Gautier, the logical one, it's the swan song for this watch. Oh baby. So this is I'm gonna get the the last one in white gold. This is another watch that I think requires very little by way of introduction, but it's just I mean it is to me, it's I when I look at it, I just think like independent watch making, right? And then the with the constant fort mechanism mechan constant force mechanism with the fusay and chain and just like wow yeah I mean this is uh it's a very special watch one that has been like on my radar for years and uh I'm gonna snap that up it's a little big but it's undeniably dressy kind of like in style. So this is my dress watch. Yeah, I
Stephen Pulvirent I totally agree, John. I think this is a really special watch. Yeah, I'm behind that pick too. JB, you want to take your last pick? Kick off round four. Let's uh take this thing down the home stretch
John Brozek . Yeah. So I haven't uh I haven't made a budget pick yet. So it's time for that. For this, you know, I'm gonna pick uh one of you is this is an American brand, an American watchmaker, someone I'm sure we all know. We've either we either know him well or we've corresponded with him on email and this is Brew Watches and and our our friend Jonathan. So I'm gonna go with a retromatic green dial, which I think is kind of like one of his classic designs. It's just like a it's a good looking, affordable watch. Great pick. You know, I don't own one, but if I had this watch, I'd absolutely wear it. It would be in my rotation and uh and I'd love it. That'
Stephen Pulvirent s a great pick, John. I think that's awesome. Cole, what what are you gonna take? I think we all have our budget pick left, right? I think so. We're saving the best for last. This is the messiest category. This is a tough one. This really is a tough one. There are so many cool watches out there under two grand. I think if I had put this at twenty five hundred dollars instead of two grand, I think it might have even been more difficult. But yeah, Cole, what's what's your budget pick? Under 2,000 bucks, independent watch. Mine
Cole Pennington is, and I I think I've mentioned this one for I actually, you know how I got introduced? It was an article from you, Steven. Actually. So sorry. It comes out of Scotland. They're big on enamel dials. Oh, nice. Good. Yeah. It's the Anordain model one for me. With uh that cream colored nail. That's the one I really
Stephen Pulvirent like. Honestly, this I think is the first time this has happened this draft. You sniped me there. I thought it was insider-y enough. I didn't have to take it earlier. You beat me to a bit
Cole Pennington . Wow. Yeah, I just think this is a great watch all around. And uh I I actually do actually aspire to own one. I just, you know, haven't haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I think they're just so, so cool. And I also like watches from countries that you know we don't often think of. And I love that, you know, I think two out of the four dress watches were from Japan. So here we have one from Scotland. So that's kind of cool too. And just a really neat watch. So it's a solid pick. I'm uh I'm honored that that you were gonna pick that watch to
Stephen Pulvirent o, Steven. You gotta hit up Lewis, man. He's he's the best, the guy behind the brand. Uh they they do great stuff. And again, like I feel like we keep coming back to it. The the people behind these watches are so compelling and so interesting. And I would say if you're listening to this and you're at all interested in any of these brands, like just email them and there is a very good chance, or like DM them on Instagram. There's a very good chance that the person who whose name is on the dial is gonna get back to you and is gonna wanna talk to you and be nice. So, like, obviously, you don't wanna like take up too much of their time, waste their time if you're not you're not gonna buy something. But like if you have a question or you want them to send you like more info or some pictures or whatever, like hit people up. Most of these people do this because they love it. Like most people are not getting rich making independent watches. So like they do this because it's a passion and it's so exciting. And I think Cole, that is such a strong pick in this category. Thank you, sir. If I may say so myself.
Cole Pennington That's uh that sounds like you're complimenting yourself, Stephen. But hey, I'll take it. So who's
Stephen Pulvirent up next? I am up next and I'll say I'm I'm gonna give a little nod to a watch that just barely ends up outside the range because of current exchange rates, which sucks. Uh a couple months ago when the dollar was stronger and the franc was weaker, this watch would have been under $2,000. And that's any of the Ming 17 series, the 1709 in particular. And that would have been my pick. I I think Ming is doing amazing things. I think they're offering insane value and I think they're really smartly doing it at watches that are like a couple hundred bucks and doing it at watches that are 20 grand or 15 grand. Like they're they're making great products at at kind of like aggressive prices across the lineup and doing really creative things. I mean, I'm not sure for everyday wear that those like flared lugs are my favorite. The curved spring bars turn some people off. Like there's all kinds of like very intentional decisions that that are I would say, if not controversial, like maybe a little polarizing, they're either love 'em or hate 'em kind of things. But I think overall these are watches very thoughtfully made and designed by people who clearly love watches and want other people to love watches too. So that would have been my pick if the exchange rate was a little better, but uh, or a little worse, I guess. But I am gonna take. You know what? I'm gonna take a watch here that that I think is just fun and it's it's from a brand, not a like person. But I'm gonna take the gnomos club campus. Steven Pulverin. You got me. Was that gonna be your pick? You got me. Yeah, I think there's there's just so many good watches in this price point, but for fifteen hundred dollars to get a gnomos that has all the same attention to detail is just so good. And I love that they offer it in 36 or 38. They offer it in more colorful and less colorful versions. I'd probably go with like the 36 millimeter gray, would probably be my pick. I've thought about buying one of these for a long time. The thing that has always stopped me is the lugs are a little long, um, which is not just my complaint. Lots of people think that. I think if you wear these watches on NATOs, that goes away because of the way the NATO folds through and like all of that. Like you you end up with that little bit of extra bulge anyway in the strap. And so it it kind of does away with that problem. So I would get the gray 36 millimeter club campus on a gray NATO and beat the hell out of it. And I think it is a fun watch. It's something you can wear everywhere. And it's again one of those watches. And again, I think this is a really important part of independent watchmaking that like people are going to ask you what it is. And that's an opening to kind of share something you love about watchmaking with that person. And and yeah, I I again there's so many good brands here. There's tons of micro brands that we can talk about, you know, after Danny makes his pick. But um I I struggled here because you know Anardane obviously was top of my list. This it was neck and neck with this gnomos, but there's also like probably seven watches I have listed here from micro brands that I I would totally take. So Danny, you want to take us home here with the the last pick of the independent watch fantasy dra
Danny Milton ft? Yeah. So my my pick goes uh pretty substantially under 2,000. I mean not, you know, it's about eight hundred dollars under depending on the configuration. And I went with a micro brand that I think I picked it more for what it represents to watches and to the consumer than anything else. So I picked Baltic and I picked the Aquascoff GMT. They are making really interestingly designed watches that pay homage to an idea of watches rather than specific watches in general, and it really is playing off a need and a want and a consumer base at a price point that is kind of fantastic for what the brand does offer. This is probably the most expensive watch they have, so I actually prefer the tropic style strap to the bracelet. So you're getting that at about 1100 US dollars, you know, depending on the exchange rate, which is pretty fantastic. You have a vintage style bicolor bezel with that kind of um retro style numerals going around it it's it's part dive watch part gmt any other baltic watch you're getting substantially sub 1$,000. And I think of it as like a gateway watch, all of them. It's a really good way to get into vintage, and it's a great way to pique your interest in getting into the history of watches in general. So I was able to spend a really good amount of time with this watch, the GMT. My favorite is by far the blue-green bezel configuration because that's just something that's not really copying on any, you know, existing bicolour GMT, save for like maybe a zodiac, you know, because they they do the interesting uh color configurations, but I just think it's fun. And that's this represents fun and watches to me in the
Stephen Pulvirent best way. I could not agree more. That was on my short list. Was that I mean, John and Cole, did you guys have this one on your short lists at all? Yeah. The brand I did, yeah, for sure. I did. I just read off my article
Cole Pennington again. I'm just kidding. I knew Danny was going to pick that because I think actually uh it came through. You wrote a piece about this Danny.
Stephen Pulvirent This is the Danny's greatest hits uh draft. That closes the picks. There is so much more we could discuss here, but I think what we'll do is we'll we'll leave that for a future episode. We'll we'll in a future episode reveal who won the draft. There's going to be voting. So again, if you haven't listened to one of these before, go to the site. There's a link in the show notes if you're listening to this in a podcast player, any player of your choice. There will be a link. Go vote. You get to vote on who wins.oting V will be open for like about 10 days usually. We might push it to two weeks here. Uh we'll we'll wait and see, but go take take a look. And then we'll do it on a future episode. We'll reveal the winners. We can talk about brands and watches that didn't make the cut, things we think we missed out on, picks we might want to change. We'll we'll do a full in-depth recap of uh this draft. But just to give people one more chance to hear the collections, let's maybe go in draft order and do what your full collection is. So just say the categ
Danny Milton ory and the watch. My sport watch was the H Moser Pioneer Mega Cool. My dress watch was the Naoya Hida Type IIA, my complication was the Laurent Ferrier Galais Annual Calendar Montre Ecole, and my budget watch was the Baltic Aquascaf G
Stephen Pulvirent MT. My sport watch is the SUF 180 Field Watch. My dress watch is the Roger Smith Series 1. My complication is the MBF Legacy Machine Perpetual. And my budget pick is the No
Cole Pennington My sport pick is the CINU fifty, my dress pick is the Chrono Tokyo Mori, my complication is the Jorne Resonance. My budget pick is the Anordain Model 1
John Brozek . My sport pick is the Grubble 4 C GMT Sport on the integrated bracelet that came out this year. My dress watch pick is uh Roman Gautier logical one, the one in white gold. My uh complication is an FP Jorn uh chronograph route pant and platinum, and my budget pick is the brew retromatic with a green di
Stephen Pulvirent al. Very nice. We have four uh sort of different collections. I think there's some overlap, but I think each one kind of has its own personality. So I'll be excited to see how people vote here. Again, go to the site, check out the show notes. There's a link. You can go vote, and then we will reveal the winners on a future episode. So thanks to everybody for listening. Thanks to you guys for doing all the research and uh doing this draft and uh may the best collection win. Alright. Thanks guys. Thank you so much, Steven. Thanks to everybody for listening and uh yeah go vote.