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First Look: Hublot, TAG Heuer, & Zenith | Watches & Wonders 2021

Published on Sun, 11 Apr 2021 19:28:28 +0000

Fresh, clean, and contemporary is the name of the game for LVMH's watch brands.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent is joined by colleagues Danny Milton and John Reardon to discuss the sport watch releases from LVMH brands at Watches and Wonders 2021. The trio focuses on three key brands: Hublot, TAG Heuer, and Zenith, examining how each brand approaches modern watchmaking with distinct philosophies and target audiences.

The conversation begins with Hublot, where Stephen admits he's become increasingly enthusiastic about the brand's bold approach. The team discusses Hublot's commitment to materials innovation and unconventional design, particularly highlighting the Big Bang Integral Tourbillon Full Sapphire (priced at \(422,000) and its diamond-encrusted counterpart (\)685,000). They appreciate how Hublot continues to push boundaries with sapphire construction and ceramic materials while other brands compete in the crowded steel sports watch market. The Sang Bleu II collection, designed with tattoo artist Maxime Bushi, and the Big Bang Unico Yellow Magic also generate discussion about Hublot's willingness to create watches for specific tastes rather than chasing mainstream trends.

Moving to TAG Heuer, the group examines the new Aquaracer Professional 300 collection, which represents a more accessible and broadly appealing approach to luxury sports watches. They note that while these watches may not excite hardcore enthusiasts, they represent what most consumers envision when thinking of a "nice watch"—steel dive watches with modern aesthetics at approachable price points under $5,000. The conversation acknowledges TAG Heuer's role as a gateway brand and discusses the sizing options (36mm and 43mm), with some concern about the gap between these sizes missing the sweet spot around 39-40mm that enthusiasts prefer.

The episode concludes with Zenith's Defy Extreme collection, featuring high-frequency chronographs at 50 Hz in 45mm titanium cases. The hosts appreciate Zenith's ability to maintain two distinct product lines—the heritage-focused El Primero and the futuristic Defy family. They're particularly intrigued by the two-tone rose gold and titanium version, praising its original approach to combining materials. Throughout the discussion, the team reflects on how these three LVMH brands successfully occupy different niches while occasionally borrowing inspiration from each other's strengths, creating a diverse and complementary portfolio within the larger group.

Transcript

Speaker
Stephen Pulvirent When most people think of like quote unquote nice watch, they're picturing something that looks kind of like this. It's this, it's a Samariner, it's a Seamaster 300, like it's a steel dive watch, probably in blue or black. It's got an automatic movement, it probably has the date, it's got some sort of texture to the dial, and it comes on a bracelet. Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverin, and this is Hodinky Radio. Uh we're back with another Watches and Wonders update. This time we're gonna focus on the sport watch brands from LVMH. So that's the uh Hublow, Tag Hoyer, and Zeniths of the world. Bulgari is also part of that family, but we've already covered that ground. We'll link that up in the show notes. But I've got John and I've got Danny here to help me walk through these three brands and the kind of like crazy array of new sport watches that we got. How's it going, guys? It's going well. How are you? It's going well. How you doing, Steven? I'm good, thanks. We're like almost through the week by the time we're recording this, or at least almost to the weekend, and it doesn't stop there, but it certainly feels like we've digested quite quite a bit over the last coup
Danny Milton le days. Time no longer exists for me. Sure does. I think as James would put it, I'm I'm post-time at this point. Okay. I respect that. I mean,
Stephen Pulvirent that might be hard as a watch journalist for you, but uh I I think you can pull it out. I think you can make it work. Let's get right into it. Uh we're gonna talk about Hublow, Tag, and Zenith. And let's just start with Hublow. I'll admit I'm kinda all in on Hublow these days. Um, maybe it's just from doing this for a decade uh that I just need something fresh and fun, but uh I've been all in on Hublow for the last year or two, and uh the new watches that they dropped this week are are not gonna change that. I really like these pieces. What do you guys think at a high level? I think so it'
John Reardon s I feel pretty much the same way about Giblot. It's like it's a brand that goes hard into what it does. Like it hasn't really veered from like what it what it's trying to do in terms of like you know from a design standpoint and in terms of like really pushing uh materials in design. You know, it's for a very specific type of watch collector. It's not necessarily something that's for everyone. They know that they don't really care and they're not like chasing friends. They're just doing what they're just being publow. And it's it's interesting because you know they're a brand that's you know extremely new uh when you compare it to like the other brands that we'll be talking about within the context of this podcast. And so like they've shaped their identity really since well, I guess going back into the eighties, but uh a lot of it uh even more recently. And uh you know, these watches I think are really emblematic of you know the Q low of tod
Danny Milton ay. Yeah, no, I would agree. It's just the kind of brand for me that is is pushing as far as you can push and isn't really afraid of what the product will be or what the reception will be because I think we've all kind of aligned ourselves to be prepared that every year they're either going to do something kind of wild or technically innovative to a point that it might even be ridiculous. And I'm not so sure that I'm necessarily the consumer o of Ublow, but when I see them, I can appreciate exactly what it is that the brand is doing. And I think that's just it's always keeping people on their toes and it's interesting every year.
Stephen Pulvirent Yeah, I I completely agree with what both of you had said. And and and I think for me, like I came into the industry like roughly 2011, 2012, I started covering watches and and started really getting into watches. And that was right around the 40th anniversary of of the Royal Oak. The Royal Oak was like just becoming cool, if that, if that makes any sense. I mean, like the offshores and stuff had been hot for a while, but like jumbos were just starting to become like kind of the it watch. Nautiluses were still cheap and gettable, honestly. Like I super regret not buying one of like a bunch of Nautili that I could have bought back then. I mean, I I say could have. I had absolutely no money, was fresh out of school, but could have in theory. And and at the time, I remember like amongst serious watch guys and kind of like scare quotes, there was this attitude that Hublow was like just an AP ripoff, right? Like you bought a big bang if you like didn't want to buy an offshore or didn't want to buy uh a you know standard Royal Oak, or if you couldn't buy one of those watches. You know, they were less expensive and a lot of them had like kind of these uh like more colorful kind of fun uh looks. But I think as the steel sport watch thing has has kind of taken overwatches, I find with Hublow's doing to be more refreshing than ever. You know, everybody else is like, you know, I'm gonna make a geometric steel watch on a steel bracelet. It's gonna have a blue or a gray dial, maybe both, maybe a silver dial, like whatever. And you know, everybody's basically competing on like price and availability and whatever, but it's it's essentially the same watch. And I like that while everybody else is chasing that dragon, Hublow is just like, hey, like, we're gonna make watches out of full ceramic. We're gonna collaborate with tattoo artists. We're gonna make diamond-covered flying turbulence. And like you all can chase that thing. Like, we've been doing that forever. And like if you want it I actually still think like a classic fusion in titanium on a bracelet for like 10 grand is an unbelievable watch. It's probably a story for another time. But if you want like a fun sport watch that like has a hint of that Royal Oak Nautilusness, but isn't a like me too product or a like I also can play this game kind of product. I think Cublo is the best game in town. I agree with you completely. Yeah. Amazing. I'm so glad I got the two of you guys to listen to me just rant about fun hubelos. That's uh that's that's that is not something I would have guessed in 2012 uh we would be doing here at Hodinky. But everything has come full circle. It really has, honestly. Uh let's get into the nitty-gritty of these pieces. So I I alluded to some of them already, but uh the kind of big Halo pieces for the year are a pair of turbions. They're automatic, micro rotor turbillons. We've seen iterations of big bangs with this movement, but I think these two are kind of like the most striking in certain ways. One is the big bang integral turbulence full sapphire, so it's sapphire case, sapphire bracelet, skeletonized flying turbulence movement. And the other is kind of another take on the same idea, but instead of being sapphire, it's fully iced out. So the case is just like absolutely covered in diamonds, many of them baguette diamonds, which are you know more expensive than than kind of brilliant cut stones. What do you guys think about these two icy, i
Danny Milton cy, icy big bangs? So I will say if anyone hasn't read James write on up on this all of these releases from Hubelow, read it. It's hilarious. Uh in the show notes. And the full sapphire is just an incredible object to me to look at. I can just imagine somebody saying, Well, we've got Sapphire Crystal, we got Sapphire Case back. What about Sapphire Case? What about Sapphire bezel? Crown, and then brace. I mean the whole it's in it's insanity. I mean literally it's like as James put it, I think it's like as close to getting an iced out watch without getting an iced out watch as you can get. And it represents everything we talked about about Hublow a second ago, which is just like how ridiculous, but also serious can you get in terms of you know engineering build you know all the design elements of a watch and building a watch basically I mean the bracelet's not entirely sapphire technically speaking in terms of every single piece of it. But theoretically, there's little uh like titanium rods, right? To like hold it together. Exactly. But in theory, and really in practice, it's a full sapphire watch, and that's just mind-blowing. I like that you compared
Stephen Pulvirent it to like it's the closest you can get to a fully iced out watch without it being a fully iced out watch. And I just want to say, John, before you jump in here, like this is a 30-piece limited edition and it's four hundred and twenty-two thousand dollars, right? The diamond version is also limited, but it's priced at $685,000. And I don't want to minimize that like the difference in price there is like a house in most places in the United States. Like this is no joke. It's like, you know, you you could buy a lug, a very, very, very high-end luxury car. You could buy a home. You could buy many things for that difference. However, the fact that the difference in price between full sapphire crystal and full diamonds is only a 50% difference. Does feel kind of wild. It's incredible.
John Reardon And I think it just kind of, you know, diamonds are one thing, but it's I think in watchmaking the materials that you use are they don't necessarily correspond to the price of the watch. You know what I mean? It's just like there's always yeah it's not like you're buying by carat weight or something, you know, in the in the diamond district. It's a you know consumer product and and all that. But I agree. This bracelet is just like it's it's mesmerizing actually. Like when I was reading through James's story for the first time and came upon the picture of the bracelet, like I just had to stop and look at it. Like it is a really beautiful thing, and it've they've it's a supplied photograph but they photographed it I think really well um and then yeah I mean I think it's it just feels like such a low release. Um and it kind of it reminded me of I think the first brand to do like a full uh Sapphire watch was probably Richard Mill in the way people I think they did like a limited edition of six or something. I can't remember what year it was, but it wasn't like all that long ago. Um and this just feels like it's taking so much further. Like it wasn't that long ago that to make a you know, just a case, which is essentially like three parts uh for a watch out of sapphire was enough to make people lose their shit and now like you have this brac
Stephen Pulvirent elet with like hundreds of parts. It's crazy. And we're seeing other brands do stuff like this. Like I I I don't want to suggest that Hublow is the only one. I mean, they're kind of, I think, I think it's safe to say that Ublow is is the leader in using Sapphire and watches. Like, yes, Richard Mill has been doing it and they do it at a super high level, you know, like two million dollar blue sapphire RMs for Jay-Z and like that kind of stuff. But like they're not really doing that at scale. Like the number of pieces made is extremely small and they're millions of dollars in most cases. Pupil is not doing a ton, but they release, you know, one or two a year and they make, you know, a couple dozen of them. They're they're making probably more than anyone else. But like RM deserves some credit, and Chanel also actually beat Hublo to the punch, I think, here with a full Sapphire J12 with a Sapphire bracelet. And there's a new version of it for this year that's like the rainbow sapphire. So if you haven't seen those, go check those out too. Like little shout out to to our friends at Chanel. Like that's also a very cool watch. Let's go to something that's less transparent. Um let's let's go to a solid colored uh watch. Uh these are ceramic. I mean they're not again with Hublow you're you're rarely gonna get just like a steel watch. But these are the Sangblue twos. They're these chronographs designed with a tattoo artist, Maxime Bucci, in um London. And uh these are crazy looking pieces. I personally would not ever wear one, but they fall into that category of watches that like I'm glad they exist. And one notable thing here is that these are are available exclusively online. So this is a like pretty cool thing. I I mean it sounds crazy because it's two thousand twenty one, but in the watch world, an online exclusive is is a big deal. And I don't know. I think these are these are pretty striking. Do you guys love these, hate these, don't care? Any of those answers are fine
Danny Milton . I would say the design comes through. I don't love or hate them. I I do actually like the colors they released this year for them. I know that previously it was in black and I think this is it's a color set that is it's not too loud. In fact like any one of these outside of maybe the white, but I would say the the gray and blue are somewhat conservative looking given like the overall design of the watch, and you could really enjoy those if these are the kind of watches you were into. But I also think that these new colorways really make that whole design motif on the dial, especially the sub-registers, that speak to the fact that it was designed by a tattoo artist. So in in so many ways, I think sometimes it's hard to without a press release for someone to be able to tell you why something is the way that it is or what it's inspired by. But I actually think it kinda comes through pretty well. Although I'm definitely not you know this wouldn't be my kind of watch necessarily, but I would see if you were into that. You know, it would speak to that pretty well. Yeah. I mean I think the I'm just looking at a picture of uh this
John Reardon watch now. I don't know if you've seen like any of Maxime's uh tattoos but I mean he's not like just any tattoo artist. He's like for example he he did a bunch of like Kanye West tattoos and like he does this kind of very geometrical thing that it's very much like his own style and people a lot of people love it, some people may hate it, whatever. But like I think these watches definitely like evoke what he does uh in kind of in in the tattoo medium for sure. And he's actually a super interesting guy. I met him one time and actually have one of his drawings. He's a real watch guy. He's a watch guy. I'll say this. I would love to wear this watch for like a week and and then come back to you. Is it something that I would like want to buy if I had the funds to do that? Like uh I don't know. I I'd rather like just I'd rather try it on and and see what wearing a watch like this was like for a little
Stephen Pulvirent bit. Yeah. I think that's I think that's a good approach, John. I I like that idea. I hadn't thought about that, but that's a that's a good approach. The last Yubelo I want to talk about here is is, you know, the only one of the new releases that like doesn't really trip my trigger, and that is the uh big bang unico yellow magic. It's a big yellow, you know, big bang. That's exactly what it is. It does exactly what it says on the tin, right? But it kind of has a little bit too much of that supercar vibe, which now being an LA transplant now, I'm really sick of seeing like brightly colored supercars like chilling in grocery store parking lots and shit. Like I just do not get the appeal of driving like a I don't know like Lamborghini to go like pick up a sandwich. I just like don't get it. So I'm gonna I'm gonna pass on this one. I don't think it's a bad watch. It just like doesn't really do anything for me. I I like it. Good, dude. I'm
John Reardon I'm glad someone does. I think it's the most commerci I mean, I mean it's the most commercial product, right? A thousand percent. Yeah, I think um these colored kind of I mean done it's ceramic, right? Yeah. These ceramic colors, I think Hugo does them probably as good or better than than anyone actually. And um this one to me hits
Danny Milton the mark. I I I'm down. I like it. I mean for me every year it's what? It's this color ceramic is extremely difficult to produce. And I respect that. And if that is the case, even though I'm not well versed in how colored ceramic is made, then nailed it because it's a very loud, very, very vibrant yellow. Again, like similarly, I probably wouldn't be in the market for it, but I actually would rock this watch. I think it actually, like as a design piece, is very cool looking. Like when I and these are like snap judgments I'm making when I first saw the images. I looked at it and I in in the context of the other releases, I was like, I like I like this. Yeah, Danny, I I think that's
Stephen Pulvirent totally fair. And I I think you're right. Like I think it would be hard to argue that Hublow's not the leader in this space. And it's also I think hard to argue that this watch isn't just like kind of viscerally striking. I do like that you touched on the idea of like every year we get a new like this color ceramic is impossible to make and we figured it out. I would just say not specifically to this watch, but just like in general, just because something is difficult to do doesn't mean it needs to be done. Like the difficulty of making a thing does not make a thing a good thing. Just like there are lots of really amazing impressive pieces of craftsmanship that are like not good products in the end. However, I think Hublow does do a good job kind of like making this RD and this kind of like play with newness and new materials and new colors, a really important part of the brand. And I, I, you know, this is probably a conversation for another time, but I bet if you went and talked to 10 really serious Hublow collectors, I bet you they would tell you that's part of what they like is that like you don't know what's going to come next. The brand is always trying to find things that are different. And I would bet that if you're Hublow collector, like you want stuff that doesn't look like what everybody else has. And if that's the goal here, then like this watch is very successful and should be should be kind of like taken as such. Yeah. I mean, I think just to going
John Reardon on your point, like I think that's something that Hublot realized you know pretty early on uh is that they had a fan base that was that would be down if like you know if they iterated if they did limited editions if they kind of just produced many examples kind of on the same theme but, to take things and like kind of have branches off a tree, people would buy multiple watches from them. And I think that's, you know, I think they what's why they do it, smart
Stephen Pulvirent business. Yeah, completely agree. Let's move on to Tagware. If Hublow was all about like flash and kind of in your face and like big crazy innovation. Tag hoyer took something that's like pretty classic and just made it a little bit better. And that's important. I do not mean that in a dismissive way at all. I think it's actually like kind of harder to do that in some ways. We got a new Aqua Racer collection, specifically the Aqua Racer Professional 300. When most people think of Tag Hoyer, they think of chronographs, they think of Auto Racing, they think of the Monaco, the Carrera,. However like Tagware has been making and continues to make dive watches. They've been doing it for a while. And out in the wild, like these watches are pretty popular if you look at the general population. Like tag hoyers and name brand. You can get them basically in any, you know, mid-size to large city in in the country and across the world. And for a lot of people, like I think this is just like one unit of nice watch. You know, they get it as a gift. They give it as a gift. You know, these watches are all under, even the titanium ones are under five thousand bucks, which I think for a lot of people is kind of a barrier. I don't know. I mean, it's the TLDR version is we've got, I think, a total of what seven or eight new new models. They come in two sizes, 36 and 43, some in steel, some in titanium. There's one with diamond hour markers. Am I missing any of the any of the big stuff here, guys? No, I think that
Danny Milton pretty much hits it. I think of Taghoyer as kind of, especially in its current iteration with the Aqua Racer, sort of the one of the few brands that are just on like a full stop march toward making modern watches. Just kind of like of course, Tag Hoyer in a lot of its lines iterates on the Hoyer name and will make a lot of great tribute pieces, but this in particular, I think, is a really good example of like a purely modern dive
John Reardon watch. I think it's this these watches provide a good example of or a good reminder to like to us primarily that like all the heritage stuff, all the stuff that we really like that kind of points back to the where history is for us. And these are probably for other watch buyers and that there are many many other watch buyers who this type of modern design to kind of go on on Danny's point is uh is what they think about when they think of a luxury watch. They don't necessarily want something that looks like it was or that is trying to look like it was made in the
Stephen Pulvirent 1960s, you know. Yeah, I I I totally agree with you. And and I think, you know, lest we forget, like to most people, I think, and again, like, you know, correct me if you disagree with me, but I think when when most people think of like quote unquote nice watch, they're picturing something that looks kind of like this. It's this, it's a Samariner, it's a Seamaster 300, like it's a steel dive watch, probably in blue or black. It's got an automatic movement. It probably has the date. It's got some sort of texture to the dial. And it comes on a bracelet. Like that is what most people want. And these watches are of the three I just mentioned from three of the biggest watch brands in the world. This is the most approachably priced. It's the only one you can get really kind of like at this, at this price point. And, you know, I I would assume that the fit and finish of these is really nice. I mean, I've seen previous iterations of these. And as a watch enthusiast, like, do they blow my mind? Am I like, oh my God, I think I need an Aqua Racer? No, I'm not, but that's okay. Like, I'm not the target audience here. And I've also never looked at one and been like, uh, like they could have done a better job here. Or like, uh, they skimped out or they cheaped out or whatever. Like, I bet these are very well made watches for the money and watches that a lot of people will like. And I think, you know, if you look closely at the dials, like there's nice colored accents. You get little hints of orange. You've got on the larger models this kind of like almost nautilus style, kind of like uh horizontal line dial. And on the smaller models, you've got almost like a not a wave dial like the way Omega does it, but you know, slightly wavy lines. Yeah, I I think these are cool. I think, you know, if I had one criticism, it would be something that James brought up in in the story he wrote, which is linked in the in the notes here. But it's that 36 and 43 are good sizes, but there is a seven millimeter delta between them. Like that is a big jump. And it also means that the Aqua Racer now misses that kind of all important like 39 to 40, 39 to 41 spot that I think is a sweet spot. I don't know. I personally think I would have a hard time wearing. I mean, I like 36 millimeter watches. I think a watch like this I would want at like 38, 39. And again, it's not for me. So, like, maybe, you know, their market research told them these were the right sizes. But I don't know. Did you guys have any other any other like kind of pos
Danny Milton itives or negatives for for these? Well just to iterate on that a a little bit, it's like I for some reason to your point of like, you know, to John's point too, that uh it's not really geared toward the watch enthusiast. And I happen to think that that 43 millimeter size, the larger size, actually appeals to a a larger consumer base. And I I actually think that somehow today people find bigger is better. And then if you, you know, might be a younger watch buyer, maybe somebody might buy this for um, I don't know, high school graduate or something like to that level. A thirty six million might be a great watch size for them. I'm I'm not sure. That's fair. But this reminds me so much of like the brand's bread and butter, which was like the Tag Hoyer Professional Line, which similarly was like you don't as much as we love to believe that in the eighties and nineties everybody was wal walking around with submariners on like in so many ways they were walking around with tag hoyers and this is just like an evolution of that. It's not this is not you know, for everyone for us, it's there's one for them and this is the one for everybody else. And this could be like a gateway watch, who knows? And it probably will be. And I think it's I think that's cool that they keep doing that. I think
John Reardon that's quite right. That's a it's a really good point that um I and I think even that kind of like thirty-nine millimeter sweet spot that we talk about is a sweet spot for enthusiasts of watches. That's true. That's very true. So like a sweet spot for like a consumer perusing like watches at a department
Stephen Pulvirent store counter. Yeah. It' probabsly 4043 millimeters, you know. The only one I'll say I'm a little surprised they did at the 43 millimeter size is the LE version, which is the tribute to the 844, which is this 1978 Tag Hoyer dive watch. It's got a date. It's got a military dial. So it's got like your normal loom plots like you'd see on any classic dive watch. But then it has in red, like a little 24-hour scale. It's like it's a cool, weird little piece of watch history. It's really, really cool. Yeah. And it's like it's it's a deep cut. Like I think I've maybe seen this watch once before, maybe, maybe only in books. Like, and and they created a pretty cool tribute with like that slightly Fotina loom. It's got the red accents, the dials, like a flat, kind of clean texture. It comes on a cool strap, like that's almost like a rally strap. It's cool. I'm just a little like I don't know if the guys who are going to be into this watch are going to want it at 43. I don't want it at 36 either. So it's like, I'm a little confused, but I don't know. I'm optimistic. Like, maybe this limited edition is something that, like, if you know somebody goes into a jeweler, is looking through the case, says, like, oh, I like this steel one on the steel bracelet. And the salesperson says, Oh, you know what? If you like that, you might even like this. It's a little more expensive. It's titanium, whatever, blah, blah blah, but it's got this cool history. Like, maybe this then helps some people take that next step. And the person buys the watch and goes home, or doesn't buy the watch, but goes home and like Googles it or takes a brochure with them and looks it up later and says, oh, I didn't realize that like this whole like vintage inspired watch thing was a thing. And maybe it gets more people interested. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe I'm I'm totally making this up. But I I think it's at least a cool thing that they did. And I'm I genuinely think this is a really handsome watch. I agree.
Danny Milton I think the matte dial, at least it looks like a matte dial in the images, looks very good. And same with the loom shot that was in the in the article. You know, I wonder now until I see watches in the middle, you know, how much is the case diameter versus the lug to lug? I think about this all the time. You know, how much would cause I and I I I don't know on this watch, so it's possible that if it's a 43 that wears a little bit you know smaller or more maybe like a 41 or a 42. You just don't know. But I agree with you. This this one is the enthusiast watch, and as such, I think it would have been much better suited at like a 40 or a 41 millimeter sizing. Yeah, I agree with that. All right. Let'
Stephen Pulvirent s move on to Zenith. Let's let's kind of take this home. Zenith released two different things in the Defy collection. One a couple days ago. You know, we're recording this on Friday, April 9th, but uh a couple days ago we got the Defy Spectrum, uh, which are some cool gem set Defys. We'll link that up in the notes. You can go check that out. I think they're pretty cool. I especially like the the purple one. It feels very prints to me in a way that I'm I'm really into. Just give me a little red Corvette and this watch and I'll be uh I'll be good to go. What I do want to talk about in more detail is a new kind of extension of the DeFi line, which is the DeFi extreme. These are high-frequency, super techie chronographs, and I think this DeFi line has become like a really cool thing for Zenith over the last couple of years. Yeah, I agree. I
John Reardon mean I think that on the one hand, you today Zenith is like a lot of brands actually, I'm realizing that that we're talking about now and and that we're talking you know that we'll probably have them seeing and talking about uh this week they kind of they live within two worlds so it's like there's the world of like you know the classic El Primero and that very much is like pointing back to nineteen sixty nine and then iterating on that. And then there's the world of the DeFi. They've really carved out like a whole other category within the brain. It feels like a distinct family. You know, it's its roots are definitely, I think, in the A384 case, you can see how if you look at other versions of the Defy, maybe not these ones specifically, but that's where that kind of line and also of course Defy is an historical line at um at Zenith. Like let's not forget that, like from the 70s itself. But um it feels like a real distinct thing. I mean, I think if they're both targeted toward watch enthusiasts, but they're the uh and not necessarily the general population, uh like civilians, but they are totally they're they're like
Danny Milton occupying different worlds almost I think. Yeah, I I would agree with that completely. I think it's it's even kind of what we touched on with with tag that somehow there's just two segments that are just executing on a high level two different completely different kinds of watches. I'm also just so very into the high frequency chronograph movements. Just the the sheer idea of 50 hertz just like kind of blows my mind. I've yet to see that operate in the metal. But when I saw them out and just saw this new iteration on the design of the DeFi, which is sort of I think a throwback to I don't know, some like maybe twenty years ago or so, it was an exciting rele
Stephen Pulvirent ase for sure. Yeah, I have to say seeing these movements in in person is awesome. Like they really they really feel high-tech. I also think that the work, and again, I haven't seen this new case, which is is a little bigger than some of the other DeFi. I mean, this is this is a 45 millimeter, 15.4, so almost 15 to a half millimeter thick case, but they're in titanium and and they're uh some of them are titanium and gold, but they're mostly titanium. Like all of the defies I've seen in the past have been really well done. Like they they are way better in person than in pictures, almost because they're so high-tech looking that there's no way to take a picture that doesn't look like a pure rendering. You like can't make it look real. Whereas in person, they still have that quality, but it's like strange because it's in your hand and you're like, is this like I don't quite get it? But I I really like it. And I'm curious to see these. And you know, to your point, Danny, about, you know, case size, diameter, lug to lug, whatever, these are pretty compact. So I would imagine that they're pretty wearable for a 45mm watch. They're pretty lightweight. Yeah, I think it's cool to see Zenith kind of like continue to use the El Primero as a platform, but to build different kind of like branches off of it. And I think, you know, comparing this to what we've we've been talking about this whole time, you know, kind of grouping this with Tag Hoyer and with Hublow, it's interesting to see the three brands kind of play off one another. You get the like, okay, Zenith's going to mess around with materials and something a little more kind of like high-tech focused in a way that like Hublo might do, but they're gonna do it in a Zenith way. And then you see, like, oh, Tag Hoyer is gonna do something vintage inspired that maybe would be more of Zenith Alley, but they're gonna do it in a tag hoyer, consumer-friendly way. And it's I like seeing that kind of cross-pollination. And it's stuff that, yes, it's kind of on the back end, it's it's not stuff that like on the face of it matters a whole lot to like consumers and collectors. But I do think it it in the end creates more interesting products and a greater diversity of products, uh, which obviously does mat
Danny Milton ter for the people actually buying watches. I also find it funny that we've talked about Hublow, Taghoyer, and Zenith, and it turns out Zenith was the largest of the three. Oh, that's interesting. So it's kind of in in the whole, you know, spectrum of the conversation, we we kinda taught we touched on the yellow ceramic hubo being a big yellow watch, but in reality, like the zenith is by far the largest of all three of the brands we've talked about. Yeah
Stephen Pulvirent . That is very true. I hadn't thought about that. That is a great, great observation.
John Reardon What do you guys make of their take on uh on the two tone? I kind of like this. Like the the Defy Xtreme kind of twist on their on the two-tone uh watch in here. Do you like it on the on the on the bracelet or the stra
Stephen Pulvirent p more? Yeah. Dude, bracelet all day. Matte titanium, matte titanium bracelet. But then you've got the rose gold kind of outer ring of the bezel, rose gold around the pushers in a way that honestly feels very like 2006 offshore to me in a good way. Like I don't mean that in a bad way. And then even the movement, because the dials on these are all like translucent, and some of the movement components are that rose gold too. So you see them through the dial. I I can't wait to see what this one looks like in person. John, I think you nailed it. L theike two-tone is is to me the one to pay attention to here. Yeah, I like
John Reardon it all. It doesn't look like a two-tone that I've seen before, which is unusual because I feel like I've seen many, many two-tone watches, but this looks like an original take on it. And I like it.
Danny Milton And like you said, Stephen, I'd like to see it in person. Yeah. I just love when two tone watches don't bring the two tone into the bracelet. That to me is like what makes a much better version of the watch. I think when you start making center links, you know, the precious metal. It's when it starts to look a little bit more like jewelry. Because a bracelet's a huge component of a watch when you're wearing it. You know, it's actually takes up more surface area on your actual wrist than the case does. And so I love that this was just done without it. And it just looks so good.
Stephen Pulvirent Yeah, I agree. It uh also, you know, not to steal any thunder from uh Zenith here, but it makes me really wonder what a two-tone octophonissimo might look like uh with the samblasted gold and the samblasted titanium. Please bondary make that. I might have to like yeah, uh please, yeah. Fabrizio, please if you're listening, uh please, please, please. Jean-Christophe Babin, if you're listening, please, please, please. I honestly think that starts to get to like I need to sell in organ territory. Um, but yeah. Well, awesome guys, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I think you know these releases from these brands are are mostly just like fun, which I think is a good thing. Like they're not so serious. They're just a bunch of fun, interesting, cool watches. And we'll we'll luckily have lots more coverage uh on all of them coming soon. So thanks for taking the time and uh for sitting down to talk. Thanks, Steven. Okay. Thanks. Thanks, guys.