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First Look: IWC, Montblanc, & Panerai | Watches & Wonders 2021

Published on Fri, 9 Apr 2021 17:06:42 +0000

Air, land, or sea – these watchmakers have you covered.

Synopsis

In this Watches and Wonders 2021 special episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent is joined by James Stacey and Cole Pennington to discuss the sport watch releases from Richemont brands. The conversation covers IWC, Mont Blanc, and Panerai's latest offerings, with particular focus on size updates, materials innovation, and sustainability initiatives.

IWC receives high praise from all three hosts, with Cole calling them the "superstar" of the show. The brand downsized two key models: the Big Pilot from 46mm to 43mm and the Pilot's Watch Chronograph from 43mm to 41mm. The hosts discuss whether reducing the Big Pilot's size diminishes its iconic status, with James noting it was one of the essential "stylish sport watches" of the early 2000s alongside the Submariner and Speedmaster. They also enthuse about the Mojave Desert editions, particularly the ceramic versions, with Cole calling them his favorites and wishing for a Mark 18-sized version. The conversation touches on IWC's technical innovation with the Big Pilot's Watch Shock Absorber XPL, which features a suspended movement and a clever crown mechanism that decouples the movement when pressed.

Mont Blanc's updates center on their 1858 collection, including a Gobi Desert limited edition Geosphere and an intriguing new Lime Gold chronograph with green-tinted gold alloy. The hosts appreciate Mont Blanc's unique positioning and their incorporation of Minerva manufacturing heritage, with Stephen noting the exceptional value proposition of their complicated movements. Panerai's focus on sustainability through e-Steel and e-Titanium materials generates mixed reactions—while the hosts applaud the environmental initiative, they critique the marketing execution, particularly the prominent "E" logo on the dial. The $60,000 eLAB-ID with 98.6% recycled materials sparks discussion about Panerai's pricing strategy, though the more accessible 42mm Submersible Bronzo Blue Abisso receives unanimous enthusiasm for capturing the essence of what a Panerai should be.

Transcript

Speaker
James Stacey There were about column five, maybe 10 at most, like truly stylish sport watches that a guy could own in a world that was not anywhere near as concerned with watches as people are now. And it was, you know, it was a Luminore, it was a submariner, it was a uh Speedmaster, it was a Daytona, and then it was a big pilot. And if you had the wrist for it and like kind of led like a jeans and t shirt, leather jacket sort of lifestyle, awfully cool watch
Stephen Pulvirent . Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinky Radio. We're here with another special Watches and Wonders podcast, and this time I've got Mr. James Stacey and Mr. Cole Pennington on the mic with me. What's going on, fellas? Hey there. Glad
James Stacey to be here. Where are you guys coming to us from? Beautiful day uh to be in or outside of Switzerland. Toronto in my case. I'm actually in Bangkok
Stephen Pulvirent . Man, I thought I I like in LA had the exotic location. We're running the spread. Yeah, so that's where I'm coming to you live from All right. The first annual Watches and Wonders Bangkok. It's globe trotting episode. You can say that. Cool. Well, we we got a lot of stuff to cover today, and uh, you know, I know you guys are gonna have some some takes, so I figure we'll get right into it. You know, we're gonna cover basically the the sport watches from the Richemont brands which is a little like inside baseball y but I I think that's okay. Uh it's IWC, Mont Blanc, and Panorai. So to kick things off, let's let's jump into IWC. I think, you know, for me personally, of of all the brands showing at Watches and Wonders, I think IWC kind of quietly has had a really strong showing. Uh what are your guys' kind of like first impressions on IW
Cole Pennington C this year? Yeah, I mean I had the pleasure of writing them all up and they for me, the superstar, no doubt about it. I mean other brands I would say kind of uh uh didn't let me down, but they didn't surprise me. IWC surprised me and delivered and there are watches that I would actually buy. So that that's interesting too, because you you know, you go through the show and you think, ah, would I actually buy this? Well, the answer is yes for some of the IWCs. And yeah, I had the pleasure of reading uh everything that
James Stacey Cole wrote which was, lovely, uh uh obviously. For me, you know, I'm I'm not as big a pilot watch guy as uh as maybe Cole is. Uh I would have liked to have seen some aqua timers. I hope that's maybe a fall plan for them. Always like their their dive watch offerings and I think they make some pretty great stuff, but there's some stuff here that could make a guy a pilot's watch guy, even if you weren't maybe previously. Uh I th I yeah, I think they're they've been on a path for a while now and they're just kind of working out the same format across most of their lineup. I think it's looking good. Yeah, I mean the
Stephen Pulvirent the two main updates we got, right, are that the the big pilot and the pilots watch chronograph both got smaller. So the big pilot went from what, Cole, 46 to 43? Yeah, that's right. So 46 to 43. And the chronograph went from 43 to 41, which is the size that the Spitfire chronograph has been for the last couple of years. And I I just for me, like this makes two already good watches just better. You know, like like the pilots watch chronograph at 41 is so strong. And it was like kind of disappointing to me that it was only available in the Spitfire like colorway. Now you can get all of the pilots watch chronographs at 41. And then for the big pilot, like that's a watch I've always admired from afar, but at 46 millimeters, like it might as well have been 56 millimeters or 66 millimeters for me. Whereas like I'm probably not buying one and wearing one at 43, but there's a lot more people I'd recommend it to at 43. It's funny you say that because the origin
Cole Pennington al big pilot's watch from the late thirties was fifty-five millimeters. Yeah. So it's been a continual exercise in downsizing the watch, right? So it's literally gotten smaller over time. Here's my question to you guys. When do you stop calling it the big pilot and just the medium-sized pilot? Yeah. Medium pilot, not as big pilot, small
Stephen Pulvirent er pilot. I like I like not as big pilot. That's that's I would buy a watch called the not as big pilot. What what millimeter case size? Uh yeah, I don't know, Cole. I mean, like I I kind of had this same uh quandary, maybe we'll call it uh conflict when they downsized the Portuguese, you know, the Portuguese are the original was always a large watch, but then they made one in 40 millimeters and they managed to kind of capture the essence of that watch at 40 millimeters. Like it didn't feel impoverished in any way. It didn't feel worse. It just felt smaller and a little more wearable for somebody like me who's like five's seven and has tiny wrists. I haven't seen these big pilots in the metal yet, but they from all the photos I've seen, like actual real live pictures on on Instagram and from retailers and stuff. Like I don't know. They they look
James Stacey pretty big piloty to me. Yeah the thing that I think is worth considering is is you know one the name is fun right big pilot. It's just fun to say. I got the big pilot. And you guys would remember this, but imagine there's people who got into watches, you know, in the last five years rather than say the last 10 to 15 years. But there was a time before Steel Rolex was quite what it is now, and before even before Panorai had its like explosive growth phase in the late 2000s, where like there were about column five, maybe ten at most, like truly stylish sport watches that a guy could own in a world that was not anywhere near as concerned with watches as people are now. And it was, you know, it was a Luminar, it was a submariner, it was a speedmaster, it was a Daytona, and then it was a big pilot. And if you had the wrist for it and like kind of led like a jeans and t shirt, leather jacket sort of lifestyle awfully cool watch. So I mean to change its size is weird because the thing that always made it stand out from any other IWC pilot's watch is that it was the big pilot. It didn't need any other statement. You had a submariner, you had a big pilot, like they're kind of like shorthands. And and I think some of that went away in the last few years, not only, you know, as people maybe didn't want, not everybody wanted a 46 millimeter sports watch, but also I think, I think that other things from IWC became much more prominent in this, more watch focused and the internet helped make everything more popular and the rest of it. So it'd be neat to see the the big pilot kind of change its context a bit. And I I don't know if those three millimeters really make it something that that it wasn't, say, ten or fifteen years a
Stephen Pulvirent go. Yeah. And I I think one thing worth noting here is is just that this is an addition to the collection. So this is the big pilot's watch 43. The original big pilot's watch is still around. So like the people who want the 46 millimeter pilot's watch. Somewhat smaller, but still relatively big pilot's watch. Uh somebody should come up with an acronym for that. I'm not even going to try that on mic. But yeah, I mean the the original is still there. And if you want this one, it's smaller and it also has no date, which uh as somebody who is currently wearing, I mean, our listeners can't see this through the magic of radio, but like I am wearing an IWC pilot watch that does not have a date, uh, the the Hodinki Mark 18. And I love me a no-date everyday kind of pilot's watch. Uh, this is my everyday sport watch, and I absolutely love it. And I think if I were maybe like 6'2, uh I might I might want a 43 millimeter big pilot. That crown is awesome. The case looks super slim. And also these, it's worth noting, have the newer generation IWC in-house movements in them, which is something that IWC has also been pushing into, especially under Chris Granger's uh leadership there. I don't know. This feels to me like kind of like the best of IWC, you know? It's like doing all the stuff that IWC does really well. Agreed. Yeah, it's interesting that they went with
James Stacey uh bracelet. Cole, is that kind of standard for these? In my mind, I always know them on the two rivet big stitch
Cole Pennington strap. So what I think is happening here is you are immediately going to that the same era that I was introduced to, IWC. Yeah, for sure. Modern, I mean you you kind of covered the Spitfire pretty in depth, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. Great watch. Yeah, awesome. Awesome watch. But yeah, the bracelet has been around. The bracelet on this watch has been around. But I agree. Like when you think of the big pilot, you do not you think of it on the uh the classic pilot, riveted kind of like the the you know, you're the dating back to the the B Urin style, right? Yeah. So but I I think it's gonna look awesome on the bracelet. This specific size. Ye
James Stacey ah I don't disagree. It looks like that's how they must have delivered the one we shot, the the press loner. Because some of the other images have it on those that standard strap. Handsome watch. I mean, it's one of those elemental designs, like a submariner, like a speedy, you know, like a Luminore, right? Like where you you kind of know exactly what you're looking at, regardless of whether the brand was on it or
Stephen Pulvirent not. I totally agree, James. I want to make sure we get a chance to talk about some of the other IWC stuff. Um, I mean, we've touched on the big pilot. We've touched on I don't think we need to go too crazy with the 41mm chrono. Like other other than it being a great watch that's now like a little bit more wearable. Do you guys have any any any major thoughts on the 4
James Stacey 1? No, I I think it's just uh that feels like a had to happen after the success of the Spitfire size. I agree. I think they had the case tooling, they had they had everything else kind of figured out. And it my guess is they sold enough of them to say, like, well, why not? Right. Yeah. Let's put different dials on it. I think it's cool that it's uh it's that pilot blue, not necessarily the Le Petit Prince blue. There's a like a difference in the darker blue. That lighter blue is pretty cool on a steel watch, I think. And I love that little hit of red on the lower subregister. I do too. And I
Stephen Pulvirent I think it's interesting that this one, the 41, it looks like from their current website and current catalog that the 41 is available in blue or green. And if you want the black dial, you still have to buy the 43. Which is interesting. Uh Cole, does that is that the case from what you you found? Yes. Okay. That blue is sick though. Blue's great. And at you know, sixty-five hundred dollars US on a strap and seventy-two hundred on a bracelet, like it's either about on par with or a little bit more than something like a Speedmaster. It's a little bit more than a Tudor Black Bay Chrono, but like it's it's sitting in that like nice sweet spot. I think like there are a lot of good chronographs between like six and eight thousand bucks, especially in that like 3940 to like 4142 size. I don't know. I think I think this watch could be like a real slam dunk for them, especially for all the guys who like either don't want a daytoner or can't get a Daytona
Cole Pennington . I can feel that you're gonna move on to another brand soon, but I just wanna say don't sleep on the Mojave stuff. Just wanna get that in here.
Stephen Pulvirent So actually, you just jumped the gun on me. Like the It looks so good in the photos. Dude, they look amazing. That was actually the next thing I was going to bring up. There were two more IWC things. One is a Mojave. Let's talk about that. They did this last year, right? Or two years ago. We got 19, yeah. The Mojave chronograph, the the top gun edition Mojave Desert Chrono. Now we've got it as a big pilot perpetual and as just a classic big pilot with the seven-day movement and the uh the date in the 46 size. These watches
Cole Pennington are so hot. Yeah, this is my favorite, by far my favorite of the bunch. I mean, I think they they take a very specific type of person to wear, but they're just so, so awesome. I mean, who else is doing anything like that? Especially you know, like like one of the brands that we were talking about, the the linchpins of the early 2000s watch scene that carried over to today. No one else is doing anything this out there, you know? And as a kind of a fan of like military-inspired stuff, I think it's just it strikes the perfect chord and balance between tactical and this is a really respectable watch. It's not like the the tactical bro military watch. It's it's refined, you know. Co
James Stacey ol. What about the sizes? Forty six five for the QP and forty six for the big pilot like a traditional do you feel like it's the kind of thing where a forty one So yeah, basically I or a thirty nine. All right. Like a a mark, whatever, but in ceramic.
Stephen Pulvirent Market team will have a no date. Yeah. Done. All right. Sign me up. Pretty cool. Be pretty sick. Dude, I own a Ceritanium Mark 18, and if they did this as a Mark 18, I might have to own two. Like I would actually consider buying a second Mark 18 if they did it in this fit and finish. It is so damn cool. Yeah, the strap is wild too. It's so good. Like I don't know. I I think IWC quietly over the last number of years has really been like killing it with the materials and with refining their designs. I mean, this is not like this is not like a secret, you know, like people know, but I don't know. It's watches like this that make me just say like, yep, they're they're keyed in, they're paying attention, they're doing this right. Yeah, I think their bases are covered as far as the pilots wat
James Stacey ch lineup for sure. Yeah. I I agree. You're you're you're pushing for that aquarius, sir, aren't you? I'm I'm ho I hope to see it at some point. Like I I miss the stuff from the, you know, the 2000s, the b blue and orange, the cousteau stuff, the 3568 with the you know, captive bezel, the GST stuff from even before that. They've got so much great I've watched that that's not even like true vintage yet. Yeah. Uh that they could kind of dig back on. It's a neo-
Stephen Pulvirent vintage. I mean, in the current collection, weirdly, there are only 10 dive watches in the current collection. Like if you pull up their website, there are 10. There's what, 75 pilots watches? So I think it's it's ripe for uh a a reinvention here.
Cole Pennington To be fair though, it's it's it's been it was one of the original pilot's watch companies, period. Absolutely. You know, the foray in two dive watches turned out really, really well. Kind of, you know. Oh no, yeah. So I I understand it. And by the way, I said aqua racer. It's Aqua Timer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's aqua timer. I have to set the record straight. That's an eas
Stephen Pulvirent y one. All right. The the last thing I want to talk about before we move on from IWC. It's a watch we actually haven't covered on the site yet, but we will. We've got something coming. Is this crazy concept piece? It's the Big Pilots Watch Shock Absorber XPL. It's kind of like totally bananas, uh, it's a seritanium case. It's 44 millimeter, so it's not huge. And basically there are these like blades that I mean, I'm doing something with my hands here that people can't see, but there's basically these like folded blades that holds the movement in the center of the case. So as the case is jostled, like basically the movement is sitting in a like suspension. There's a whole bunch of other stuff here, too. It's got, you know, it's it's just like a weird thing it's a very strange thing and they're saying they're only gonna make up to ten of them a year have you guys a seen this thing and B what do you what do you think about this like this feels very like out there to me
Cole Pennington I I have seen it and actually uh at l studied it at as much as you can at length for this uh you know the day that it's been out. I spoke with the IWC CEO moments ago about this and something he noted which was very, very cool. The crown, normally when you press a crown in, right, you're advancing the stem into the movement. However, in this instance, when you're pushing the crown in, it decouples a clutch so that the movement is suspended independent of the crown. So imagine pushing in a clutch pedal as as if you're pressing in the crown. So now there's nothing connecting the movement to the case. So
James Stacey it's free floating. Yeah, which is one of the problems with some of the modern shock absorbing systems is they still have to pivot wherever the crown meets a gasket. Right. So you end up with this weird stressor that then like causes uh some twisting into the movement. So that's that's super clever. I I don't know anything about this watch. This is brand new. I just googled it while you were talking. I didn't write any of the IWC stuff up so I I didn't go back and dig through anything beyond what we published. But man, it certainly looks really cool. It doesn't look especially like an IWC, which is a neat way of going about it. Like I think if you took IWC off this dial, you kind of have to make some guesses as to who might have made it. I really think the dial's pretty slick. I mean the shock system sounds pretty cool, kind of like a blade or a leaf spring. Similar to how like a maybe how like a keyboard key is suspended for its travel. Yeah, no, I'm I mean pretty clever. These are those sorts of things that IWC does, these really techy advancements that sometimes don't always find an audience the first 10 times they try to make it. So I think it's cool if they're gonna put it into something that's this limited and and kind of special. Uh hopefully they can get the word out about it so that people know know what they're looking at when they see it. Yeah,
Stephen Pulvirent totally. All right. We we gotta move on from IWC here, but I think I think we all would give IWC like a solid A grade for uh Watches and Wonders 2021. Anyone disagree with that? Yeah, I think they did really well. A plus actually. Oh right, all right. You guys are are one up in me here. All right, I love that. Let's talk quickly about Mont Blanc. You know, Mont Blanc has really over the last like five years gone from a company that like sort of incidentally makes watches to a company that pretty seriously makes watches. They're really incorporating their their Minerva heritage. You know, the Minerva manufacturer is a part of Mont Blanc now. And they made some updates to the 1858 collection this year that aren't, you know, crazy and monumental, but like I think they're I think they're pretty nice. D what do you guys think? Yeah, I think it's pr pretty similar to the sort of stuff they've been making for the last little while. Yeah, I mean the j the Geosphere has been kind of their like I guess like halo piece, star piece of the 1858 collection. And you know, we were just talking about a Mojave Desert limited edition. They've got the Gobi Desert Limited Edition of the 1858. Rishman's all-in on world deserts. Somebody out there is definitely collecting desert themed limited editions. If you're that person and you're listening, like hit us up for sure. Uh, I want to talk to you and find out everything about why you're doing that. But yeah, I I like this Gobi Desert 1858. Like, it's it's cool. I think it might be my favorite colorway of this watch so far, maybe. I'm l
James Stacey ess of a brown dial fan. So the the blue on steel, I think is the is kind of the sweetest of the trio that they're offering. This is a an interesting wat.ch Nobody's making a watch like this. They're on their own, where it's this kind of dressy but sporty thing. And then they're really establishing the sporty element by connecting it with Reinhold Messner. And some of that was for climbing, and then now the Gobi Desert one is obviously linked with his uh expedition, a two thousand kilometer expedition across the that desert. So which he did alone, which sounds lonely and uncomfortable. But yeah, I mean the thing is these are really are like a really nice looking watch. They always have been. Uh so I think that they can just kind of keep iterating upon it. So I mean at a certain extent, like why not? Especially if you if they're if they're finding an audience that that wants to buy it. Uh this makes sense to me. I I think that these are these are neat things just because they're it's pretty distinctive. It's
Stephen Pulvirent unique. Yeah. I I agree. And and when it comes to things that are unique, like they're they also introduced this year a watch, uh it's a it's a mono pusher chrono it's actually a split seconds chronograph uh with a mono pusher that is in a new shade of gold that they're calling lime gold it's like a green tinted gold alloy it almost looks like yellow gold that's like tarnished a bit kind of if that's an I mean that like not in a uh like deprecating way. Like I'm not uh saying it's bad, but that's I don't know, that's the closest thing I could think of for this this kind of greenish color of gold. Yeah, it I think uh it comes
Cole Pennington from the addition of copper, I believe. So it's it has a higher percentage of copper in the alloy. And then to accentuate the lime undertones of this gold, they used green on the dial to a nice effect. Kind of like a I would say an Irish green outline around Arabic numerals that play with this lime green new case material, lime lime gold. So I that is my pick over the geosphere. The Gobi Desert itself is very, very cool. And I I think the watch is interesting for that connection, but
James Stacey visually, this one is stunning. Yeah. I think it's one of the more interesting things they've announced this w this year. Certainly the play on metal is is interesting, but I think it's that really, you know, late 50s, early 60s sort of dial design. Uh, and then to do it in green it's. It's just uh a very distinctive thing. It's cool. Yeah. Yeah. And turn it over and you got a nice vie
Stephen Pulvirent w too. Yeah. I mean, that's where I was going here is is that movement is crazy. I mean, this is the M1631, which is their larger split seconds chronograph. I I don't know. I mean, like I I've been to the Minerva manufacturer. The work they do there is absolutely insane. Like it's it's really, I think, one of like the unsung gems of Switzerland right now uh is that little manufacturer. It's it's tiny. Uh it's like, you know, directly across from a field of cows. Like it's exactly what you want like a little Swiss movement workshop to be. But I think this movement is, I mean, this this watch is priced just a hair under fifty thousand euro and that's for a precious metal watch with this movement in it. Uh I think that's a s steal, you know? Um I r I really think that you're getting just an absolute ton of watchmaking for your money here. Now, it's in a 44mm package, which is larger than I think uh a lot of people would like for a watch like this, but I don't know. These movements kind of like kill me every time. Like every time I see one in person, I'm just blown away all over again. Yeah, definitely a big part of the appeal, the Minerva connection. All right. The the last thing I want-I mean, we got some other chronographs. They're plays on like pretty familiar chronographs. I mean we've seen Mont Blanc doing these kind of like 1815s but with Minerva movements. I think the Lime Gold is the most interesting, but there's there's a few others and we'll we'll link them up in the show notes so you can check those out uh as well. But the last thing I wanted to touch on is the the new line that Mont Blanc released. And, you know, we're mostly talking sport watches today, but the the Pythagore, Pythagore, uh, I don't know how they're they're pronouncing that, is pretty damn cool. It's a three-hand manually wound kind of like dress watch essentially, but with a really crazy movement that's inspired by a 1940s Minerva movement. I think this is is another like quiet introduction. Like this isn't that's going to make headlines, but I think this is a thing that a lot of like the people who buy these will will love them and are going to be really excited about them. Yeah, I agreed. Folks who like their Mont Blancs, they like their Mont Blancs. Yeah, Cole. I mean, yeah, it's I think I agree with you. Like there's definitely Mont Blanc people who who are gonna love it. I think also if you're looking for like a hand wound dress watch with like a cool movement that's a little bit different than what you'd get from, let's say, like I don't know, JLC or from Cartier or from you know any number of other brands out there. Like this is just another offering. It's another thing. It's cool. It's different. It's uh it just gives people options, which like ultimately at the end of the day, I think is probably a
James Stacey good thing. Yeah, it's an interesting design. Uh I I dig it. And and you know, they're they're expanding their lineup as they kind of figure out where the brand's headed, which makes sense. And and I like that these ones don't really look like uh, you know, the the current crop from uh from other brands. You know, they for a while there was a a pretty strong aesthetic link between uh JLC and uh M. Mont Blanc, and this feels more like they're kind of finding their own their own vibe. I I that well the interesting minute track is cool. It's in little like uh three block sections. Yeah. And then there's a like a 24-hour marker. It's clever
Stephen Pulvirent . Yeah, I totally agree. All right, let's head over to Panorai. Let's finish things up here with with a quick discussion of Panorai. Panorai is doing Panorai, right? Like they're the they're basically aesthetically like kind of the same watches. That's cool. That's what Panorai does. That's who they are. But the big story here is is about materials. This thing called e steel and uh e-titanium. It's really all about like recycled post-consumer materials here. And I don't know. I think they're they're kind of interesting. Super interesting. I'd love, I'd love more detail. That I guess is the only thing that like when I when I saw, you know, John wrote a bunch of these up and then I went and kind of like tooled around on Panerize site a little bit, and they're cool. I'm interested. But like when they say that the watch weighs uh 152.4 grams and 89 grams of that, which is 58.4% for those of you keeping score, is quote, recycled based materials. Like I I would love to know more. I just I trust them. It's not that I'm like skeptical here. I just I want to know what that means. Like I want to know exactly which components are made of what. Uh and I'm sure there's a reason we don't know that right now. But yeah, I think like if you're gonna do the storytelling here, which is a powerful story to tell. I want the nitty gritty
Cole Pennington . I think um if we hold true to the idea that matter is neither created nor destroyed, then essentially everything is recycled at one point. So
James Stacey Cole just went full jack on us, James. Uh yeah, for sure. He definitely did. Um I m I guess my my thing with this is uh I I like this watch. I mean what's what's not like I already like Luminores, so I'd like another Luminore. Why not? Uh m my my first the first thing that hits me is I I don't I don't want to be unfair to Panorai, but could we could we take another pass at the logo on the dial? Like if you haven't started printing it yet? Oh dude. It makes me nostal
Cole Pennington gic for my youth going on the computer, kind of. For Internet Explorer. Yes, exactly. I I wasn't gonna say it.
James Stacey Yeah, I was gonna say it makes me not nostalgic. I don't I don't know what what icon edge browser uses. It's been some time since I owned a Microsoft product. But uh yeah, I don't know. I I I just I like I I fe even feel like if that little colorful E, which now that I now that Cole has FedExed the way I see this, I'll never not see the uh the Internet Explorer E. Even if they just changed it to a lowercase E in the same font, so it was just E and steel, I wouldn't have I wouldn't even have noticed. It's the color, I think, more than anything, because it's the same color on all three watches, and it doesn't match any of the like I guess it works with gray because everything matches gray, but like that turquoise E on a like olive green dial is a weird move. I know that this is I'm I'm I I what's the smallest thing I could complain about with this watch? But with a luminar, you're getting a luminar. I love that it's recycled. They should just do that with all their watches if it's possible to do it for $80, $700, let's just do all of them. That's that's got to be roughly the entry point for a full size Luminar, give or take, 10, 15%. So I dig it. I dig it and I hope it's the sort of thing they can do more and then the get that percentage up. I also kudos your credit where credit due. As much as I might not like that E, I really like the color matched crown sitting inside that crown guard. That's just a nice little touch to remind you that it's not just a ba a base, uh an O five or a logo or something like that. So no, I I think these are cool. I think the price point is fair. Uh I on my other podcasts, I I m maligned would be the correct word. I was a little hard on them for the $60,000 eLAB. Yeah. You know, I don't always understand how this brand prices their products. Um, but under $10,000 I'm I'm very much on board. I wish they were still four, five, six grand like they were at one point. But obviously, we went from Eda 6497s to P series movements, which is a big jump. Um, and uh, but yeah, this gray one, I like the textile strap. Obviously, it looks like a gray NATO. Yeah, they're cool. Cool texture, to
Stephen Pulvirent o. Yeah, I I agree with you. I think like the the E to me feels like a thing that's done for marketing. Like it gets you to buy the watch, but then once you have the watch, you wish it wasn't there. It like it gets your attention. I just think I don't it's not that I don't want it to say e steel, just maybe not with that color. I I agree. And I I think to your point, like the crown is a nice differentiator here. Like to me, that would do the work, you know, but I'm not a watch designer. Yeah. I mean you you you brought up the eLab, which is kind of like this idea taken to its logical conclusion. And this so this watch is ninety-eight point six percent recycled based materials by weight. This is like the concept version of the Luminore in E-Steel. I think on the face of it, it's super handsome. Like it's it's titanium, it's got one of those relief engraved metal bezels, which I know James, you're a huge fan of too. Cole, I'm assuming you are. Ab
James Stacey solutely. I I love a submersible. I think they're watches that work at the larger size. This is a 44 millimeter example. They did do a new 42, which I think is exciting. I really love that watch. I got to review the original steel one a few years back. I like these, you know, with the BMG techs and some of the other stuff they've done in the last couple of years. They started to offer submersibles with a sort of modernized minimalist dial layout. It's not that different than any other Panorai layout, but if you look at two pictures next to each other, the ELAB ID, as this one's called, has sort of a more modern feel. It's that light blue on gray or under gray. In this case, it's kind of a uh sandwich dial. Uh I I think this is killer. I mean the the issue is of course the price. It's this brushed eco titanium and they're they're only going to make thirty of them and it's sixty grand. You know, this is indicative of how of how of where Panorai sees their flagships is is in this sort of vein. So it's a it's an interesting, it's an interesting move, certainly. And I I do I genuinely hope that this is it starts out as like a marketing exercise and then it eventually just becomes how we make watches. So all watches are 98.6% recycled material or something like that. I mean it could just be the standard. But I like this and and it's kind of cool to see a brand, another brand kind of operate, start to operate in their own alloys. Uh, you know, it's been a Rolex thing forever, the 904, we all know that. But everyone else uses stainless steel. Some brands have started to make their own gold, various versions of gold. Uh, some even have, you know, the ability to mine their own gold like shopar through their kind of certified mines uh but with this it's it's neat to see it applied to a more sporty metal titanium uh so yeah I I think it's a plus I just thought it's a the the price is a head scratcher for me. And and much like we were talking about with the with the IWC stuff, like my introduction to Panorai was kind of when they started to become popular, but they had been making watches for like let's say 2005, 2006. So they'd been on the come up for a while. Collectors had known about them for a while. Then they started to hit the watch you see crowd, and you started to see them kind of more commonly in more general interest stuff. And and you know, back in the day, they were it was I remember I looked at a base logo for 3,500 bucks. And that's just not not the world we live in anymore. And for me, sometimes you have those pre-existing things that you've built up, like where brands kind of sit, and when they make a big move, usually upwards, it's it can be hard to find the context for it. It's the classic back in my day, pizza was a dollar fifty air. It is a little bit of that, which which is which is which is also a fair way of saying like part of this problem is me. No matter where I go, I'm I'm still there. So uh that includes panorized pricing model. But I I like that you know w they did do a series of watches that weren't all f
Stephen Pulvirent ive figure. Yeah, I I agree. And I I I think for me the actually the bigger head scratcher beyond the price is the fact that this watch isn't available for a year. Like this watch isn't available till twenty twenty-two, which feels to me like another thing that's like very 2015, you know, like, oh, release it now. It's available in December. It's like, okay, fine. You know, like I've I've been to enough SIHH's where they told me the second week in January about things I wouldn't be able to buy till Christmas. You know, the readers wouldn't be able to buy Chr tillistmas. It feels a little weird as, you know, as opposed to like Tudor who yesterday, you know, were recording this on Thursday the 8th. Like yesterday, Tudor dropped a bunch of watches and like they're they were in boutiques in Switzerland yesterday. Like you could walk into a store and buy one. Uh that to me feels like the future. Waiting a year. I don't know. It's a special watch. People, people I'm sure will wait and will love it when it arrives, but I don't know. I'm I'm all about I think
James Stacey I think if it was you know if they were doing that as the whole brand, I would get it. But for a sixty thousand dollar limited edition, does it matter? Thir thirty people have to wait a year.
Cole Pennington All right. You're you're probably right here. I'm probably being unfair. But uh something we're glossing over though really quick that that I was kind of thinking about is this is made from eighty percent recycled material and the material is titanium. Who who out there is recycling titanium? I mean that's not cheap. So are you throwing away your bike frames or what? You know? I assumed it was aircraft. Yeah, same here. Yeah, that's what I figured too. Pulling it off of salvage. Salvage aircraft. Yeah. So that's why you have to wait a year. Yeah. You gotta wait for all these aircraft to be salvage
James Stacey . Exactly. I know some people who work in non watch sectors that deal with very rare and difficult to get medals for their products. It could be flashlights, pens, that sort of thing. And a lot of times you kind of have to get on the list and then wait until you're able to buy some. So I for all I know, and and this is just me reading between lines that may not even be existing, but for all I know, it could be really hard to get recycled titanium. Totally. Because I'm assuming Panorai is not the one doing the recycling, it's being purchased by someone that does this sort of manufacturing and then delivered in rods or blanks or whatever. So it could be that that you kind of have to get in line and then wait for your allotment as it's available, especially if it's something that now has maybe multiple middle steps. Yeah. It's not coming from where steel comes from, you know
Cole Pennington , to your door. I'm sure, James, you you remember the story of how the US procured the titanium for the SR seventy one. Yeah, uh well I know a few different vers
James Stacey ions of it, but yeah, the you know shell companies in Russia to buy Russian titanium and then move it to the States, build a plane to then spy on the Russians. That could that model could be appl
Stephen Pulvirent ied to this if we want to expedite the process of the of the the creationists, you know. Cole's gonna be the titanium salvage consultant for uh Panorai uh by the end of the week, but Well yeah. I mean if it's cutting edge a metal it might be really hard to get so there there's one last watch I want to talk about quickly and then we gotta wrap this up. Uh that is the uh James, you you you wanna say this? You wanna give us a fun accent on this one? It's the bronzo blue abysso. Thank you. That's that's what we need right now.
James Stacey That was the best I could do. Definitely the best I could do. Any more is cartoonish. This
Stephen Pulvirent is a killer watch. I mean you you mentioned it earlier. Yeah. 42mm submersible. This thing's gorgeous. Bronze, blue dial. It's limited. Uh, it's a thousand pieces per year and only available at Panorai Boutiques. 42 is still a little big for me personally for a submersible. I think it's a great size for most people. And if it is and you are at all interested, like run, don't walk. Like go find this watch. Uh I I just think it's it's an absolutely stunning watch. It's on like a blue
James Stacey suede strap, the gorgeous, the the dial color is incredible. There's only like two shades happening. It's either gold or blue. I I dig this a lot. I really like the steel one. My only real complaint is I think they would have a much more competitive product if it was priced right alongside a submariner for the steel, rather than like $2,500 more. I think it's around $12 grand ish for a steel one, maybe a little bit more now. And this one's almost uh sixteen, uh fifteen thousand nine hundred dollars. Uh uh given that they're only gonna make a thousand a year, I don't I think it's probably fine. I think it's a little bit more special than the standard one. I also think there's like there's some watches that don't need to be bronze. Like everybody's doing a bronze watch, and sometimes you go like, but I don't know. Whereas like on the opposite side of that, a bronze panorama makes a lot of sense. It's the sort of thing that looks like a bronze, you know, Mark series diving helmet from the pre-scuba days, you know, salvage diving and stuff and I I just think it's absolutely gorgeous. I think this is the sort of watch that like Pan or I can make. And because it's so intrinsic to them, they're just really beautiful kind of chunky sport watches. And at 42, I think it makes a lot of sense. Um I like that you're still getting proper water resistance and and everything else
Stephen Pulvirent . Uh I dig it for sure. Cool. Yeah I I think to me like this is now when I think submersible in my head, like when I think of this lineup, I think this is the watch now that to me like best exemplifies what like a quality submersible can be. All right. Well, guys, we covered a lot of ground here. I really appreciate you taking the time and I think we're all back to back to writing up watches and wonders analysis after this. So thank you and uh I'll have you back on. We'll talk more soon. Always a pleasure. Likewise. Awesome. Thanks guys.