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First Look: A. Lange & Söhne, Patek Philippe, & Vacheron Constantin | Watches & Wonders 2021

Published on Thu, 8 Apr 2021 18:00:00 +0000

Watches & Wonders' heaviest-hitting watches are also some of its most interesting.

Synopsis

In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent is joined by colleagues Jack Forster and Ben Clymer on day two of Watches and Wonders 2021 to discuss new releases from high-end watchmakers A. Lange & Söhne, Patek Philippe, and Vacheron Constantin.

The conversation begins with Lange, focusing on the charming Little Lange 1 Moon Phase with its blue flecked dial and whimsical star-shaped hour markers. However, the team spends considerable time on the new Lange 1 Perpetual Calendar, praising its exceptional legibility compared to competitors like Patek Philippe, though noting its punchy price point of over $104,000. They debate the merits of automatic versus manual-winding perpetual calendars, with Ben arguing that automatic makes far more practical sense for collectors who don't wear the same watch daily.

The discussion of Patek Philippe's releases quickly becomes contentious, particularly around the green dial Nautilus 5711A - the final limited edition of the discontinued reference. Ben expresses frustration with the Instagram-driven hype around this watch, receiving numerous requests from acquaintances seeking help obtaining one. The hosts lament how the Nautilus has overshadowed Patek's true watchmaking achievements in complicated pieces, with Jack memorably comparing the desire for this watch to "a six-year-old who is irritated because they don't have the latest McDonald's Happy Meal toy." They argue the problem isn't the product itself, but rather customer mentality and social media influence.

The episode ends on a more positive note with Vacheron Constantin's offerings, including the Overseas Perpetual Calendar Ultra-Thin in white gold and the spectacular Traditionnelle Split-Seconds Chronograph Ultra-Thin in platinum. The hosts praise Vacheron for making high-end watchmaking feel fun and contemporary while offering what they consider exceptional value, particularly the split-seconds chronograph at $288,000 - significantly less than comparable Patek pieces while featuring superior technical integration.

Transcript

Speaker
Jack Forster They regard demonstrating knowledge as part and parcel of the pleasure of connoisseurship, but when it comes to the Nautilus, for some reason they're reduced to the level of being a six-year-old who is irritated because they don't have the latest McDonald's Happy Meal toy. Is that is that about the size of it
Stephen Pulvirent ? Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverant and this is Hodinky Rad We're back. It's day two of Watches and Wonders. By the time you're hearing this, it's still day one for us here. We're still in the kind of like fog of war, I guess. Of fog. Fog is right. Of Watches and Wonders of the the digital trade show. But we're here and we we wanna talk about the high ends. So we're gonna talk about long and zona, we're gonna talk about paddock, and we're gonna talk about Vashron. Does that that work for uh you guys? It works for me. Sounds good. Perfect. Let's uh let's dive right in then. Let's let's start with Longa. Technically, I guess it's first alphabetically having an A and a period at the beginning of their name. Yeah. They they kind of engineered that one uh pretty pretty smartly. Leave it to the Germans. But uh yeah, I'll just start with my favorite watch uh from this collection. I really like the little Longa One moon phase with this gold flux, like kind of blue flecked dial. Yep. I just think on a pretty basic level it's a beautiful watch
Ben Clymer . It is. It it's beautiful. And I think the the size is really nice. The I've always really enjoyed the little Longa one. Great size, you know, just not what you would really expect. And this one with the moon phase, I think, is uh is a killer. No, I totally agree. You know, I I actually like it when Lon
Jack Forster ga shows off its uh lyrical side a little bit. Generally, when they do astronomical complications, I think they're really beautifully done, but they can be anything from really, really complex over-the-top stuff, which they don't do terribly often, to um, you know, somewhat more poetic interpretations of astronomical complications. And I I think this lo looksoks I think it great. I think it's a really, really charming watch. And um, you know, it's uh it gets kind of the same pleasure that I used to get when I was a kid lying in bed and looking at these stick-on glow-in-the-dark stars that were on the ceiling of my bedroom. It's uh it
Stephen Pulvirent 's not a sophisticated pleasure, but it's a lot of fun. I had those too, and I I wonder how many people we know who like operate in the watch world had those on their their bedroom ceilings as a kid. I would bet probably like a much higher percentage than of like the normal population. Should we run that survey? We should. I I'd be game, yeah. I mean, hit us up. If you're listening to this, hit us up in the comments and let us know. I I love the star-shaped hour markers, like the little Stellina hour markers to me kind of make this watch. I mean the dial treatments beautiful, the moon phase is is great. But like that to me, to your point, Jack, like that's that just like little extra bit of kind of like poetry and like whimsy that Langa doesn't always show, but can and can do to to great eff
Ben Clymer ect. Yeah, I mean it reminds me a little bit of that email langa 1815 moon phase from around like 1999 uh that had the constellation in the lower left kind of quadrant of it and some stars on the dial as well. You know, really small, really beautiful, as you said, kind of like really kind of whimsical design from Langa for a moon phase. Just really reminds me of that. And then that that has always been a favorite kind of sleeper hit of my langa uh obsession.
Stephen Pulvirent Yeah. I mean I'll I'll throw it out to either one of you. I mean what what were your favorite watches? I mean Longa didn't present a ton this year, but there's a couple really good pieces. There are basically th
Ben Clymer ree introductions. There's the the triple split, which is really just the triple split again in different metal and dial. Then there's what we're referencing now in the little langa one. And then my my favorite is the Longa One Perpetual Calendar. Well documented certainly on Hodinki and certainly even on Hodinki Radio, my love for the Longa One. This is the Longa One perpetual calendar, which you know, Stephen, I think rightly said right up here from the beginning, is like you would think that this came out a long time ago, but it really did not. Longa has done other perpetuals in other collections. They've also done the Longa 1 perpetual turbion, which looks a hell of a lot like this watch, but it's approximately three and a half times the price with a hidden self-winding turbulent. This watch to me makes a lot of sense. It's exactly what I would want. And I was chatting with a Lang collector earlier today over text, and like what makes the Longa One so exceptional really translates well into a perpetual calendar in that it is completely legible. And as somebody who owns a 3940 and have owned other, you know, I've I own a Royal Oak Perpetual calendar, you can't read those things to save your life. You know, like you you know that the data is there, right? You're happy that it's there. And every now and then you'll take out a loop or you're really look closely to make sure that like it's accurate. But like you realistically cannot read that stuff at a glance. This Longa One perpetual without turbion, you can really read very, very easily. And I think that that's really compelling. Love obviously the pink tile on the white case, the limited edition one, but I think both are great. If I had to criticize it in one way, I do think the price is punchy. I mean it's a really special movement that is definitely derived from an even more special movement, the one with the turbine, but you know, over a hundred thousand dollars for a self-winding perpetual calendar. It's a lot of coin. I mean, look, everything we talk about is a lot of coin, but this feels just a little bit too much, perhaps for my taste. But I think the watch is
Stephen Pulvirent great. I really do. Yeah, and and just for people uh who haven't seen the story, which is linked up in the show notes, it's 104,500 for the pink gold non-limited version, and then it's a hundred and sixteen thousand for the limited white gold version, which there's uh 150
Ben Clymer of. Yeah, and I'm just, you know, I just want to check myself because sometimes I say stuff that like doesn't compute or doesn't really make sense just because I think I know so much. So I'm on Patek's website right now. I just want to see what like a a perpetual from them would cost. And so let's see. So the 5327G, which is a perpetual in white gold, retails for 96,990. So I mean a little a little bit less. I mean, Patek is Patech. So they they usually kind of charge premium over other folks. You know, the this movement is the same movement that's been used in 3940 for 30 plus years. So the Langa movement is considerably, I mean, like markedly superior to this from from my perspective. But still, I mean for for a Longa One perpetual to be priced above a Patek perpetual, I don't know if they're making a statement there or not. But you know, it's just it's not something you see often when you compare, say, I don't know, like a 5170 or 5172 chronograph from Patek being probably 40 to 50% higher than like the 1815 chronograph. So just something to consider. You know, the price was a little jarring to me when I saw it, I I love the watch. And you know, again, I I'm not gonna knock it without really understanding what goes into it, but definitely a little little stronger than I would
Stephen Pulvirent have guessed. Yeah. I mean, Jack, what do you think about the size of this watch? Because I I keep going back and forth. Like it's forty-one point nine millimeters across and twelve point one millimeters thick. And I can't decide whether I think this is like exceptionally reasonably sized or just like a little bit too big. I'm I'm kind of up in the air. What do you think? I
Jack Forster mean it feels about right to me. Just to jump back to a watch that Ben just mentioned, the Amy Alonga, that was a smaller watch as well. The little Longa moon phase is I think a thirty nine millimeter watch. F I f you know for this for for what it is, which is uh you know certainly at this price and with that complication, a little bit of a statement piece. The size feels appropriate, the thickness feels appropriate. You know, I'm still mulling over a couple of points that Ben made about pricing, which is I think that it's uh it's an interesting situation to be in if you're competing with Paddock Philippe because I would think that companies like Longa and Vacheron kind of say to themselves, you know, well listen, we gotta have it's it's a little bit of a difficult situation because if they do have price valuable or less intrinsically interesting as a piece of watchmaking. And you know, if you take price out of the equation, a big date long on one perpetual calendar is a it's a fantastic watch. It's a natural I I mean, I c completely agree with Ben, it's a natural fit. It's actually really surprising that they've never done a straight perpetual in a long a one before. Because it really is a perfect fit for the watch. Ye
Stephen Pulvirent ah. Totally agree. Yeah, I completely agree. I guess the last question I have for both of you before we move on from this watch is I think any time we talk about automatic langas, there's a little bit of like controversy. Some people say, Oh, it's a perpetual calendar, of course it needs to be automatic. Other people will say, Well, it's a longa. I don't want that big rotor taking up all that space. I could be using to admire hand finishing. Where do you guys stand on that? Is is it a plus? Is it a minus? Is it what it is? Yeah. I mean I
Ben Clymer I think you know if you look at the the the rotor of of this this movement, I mean it it's slightly skeletonized. You you can definitely see the movement in a in a really you know significant way. The other thing I'll say is I have owned manually wound perpetual calendars and I've kind of railed against them in the past. They make no fucking sense. They make no sense. Like you can't put them on a one. If you own more than one watch, like if it's your only watch and you're wearing it every day, fine. Sure. Like manually on perpetual calendars makes sense. But like to take that watch off and not wear it for, say, a month or what you know, these are usually precious metal watches, so you're not wearing them every day. Like it it is such a pain in the ass to get that thing accurately set again. And so any perpetual calendar for me, from a practical perspective, needs to be automatic. It just has to. And I know that goes against everything that Patek has done with the 1518, 2499, 5970, 5270, like the watches in the dress category. But I I really find them to be kind of ridiculous, you know, when when you're manually wound. So I am all for a self-winding perpetual calendar. And in particular in Longa's case, like knowing Wilhelm and knowing Tony De Haas, like these guys are like, even though they're making really beautiful, special, like the highest grade stuff in the world, like they are incredibly pragmatic. And like when you say, Well, why does this watch a little bit thicker than then say paddock? And they'll say, Well, ours works and ours will work when you drop it. And you know, if we were to ask them about making this watch, they would say, Well, like a perpetual calendar should be automatic because you know, you you you don't want to have to reset all those different apertures every single time that you take the watch off. So in in this case I am fully, fully in favor of a of a self-winding watch. Yeah. I mean I think
Jack Forster in general it makes sense for a perpetual calendar, especially nowadays, and this is actually something I would uh I say nowadays for a reason a point I sort of wanted to raise uh with both of you is a manually wound perpetual calendar might have made a little bit more sense in say the mid-1950s, nineteen sixties, when owning a really valuable, beautiful handmade watch was less a matter of collecting and more a matter of acquiring something that uh you would be apt to wear a little bit more often. But I mean do you think that the preference
Ben Clymer Aaron Powell I think that's exactly right, Jack. I I I I really do. And again, I mean like the the the watches that I love the most that have come out of Christie's and Phillips, et cetera, are the when I'm when we're talking about these paddocks, are the twenty four ninety nines that somebody wore every day of their life, you know, or the fifteen eighteen that that you know the King so and so bought in nineteen forty two and and again, you know, passed down for multiple generations and it's overpolished and like, you know, really, really worn down. And that, you know, again, if if you're wearing a fifty-two seventy or a five thousand four every day, I'm I'm fully for manually wound perpetual, but as a collector, it it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. The other thing I wanna say quickly before we move on to the next watch is so the the the paddock fifty-three twenty-seven or whatever it was was ninety something thousand. I'm on Vashron's website now just to compare their perpetual calendar, at least on a leather strap. And that is, let's see, in pink gold, 78,500. So I mean we're talking dramatically less here for of Astron Perpetual. And again, the this perpetual uses basically the same movement that AP has been using forever, and you know, they've been using this movement forever with a module on it. And it's it's it's a wonderful movement. So it's it's not the same thing, but still that's a big delta from one oh whatever to to seventy eight thousand from Langa to Vashron there from my two cents.
Stephen Pulvirent Yeah, totally agree. Well, I mean, while we're making the comparisons to paddock and Vashron. L'ets move on there. I mean you, alluded to the fact that the last longa, the one we haven't talked about, is the triple split. It's the same watch. Pinkle, blue dial looks really nice. Yeah. People can go check the site out to read more there. I don't I don't think we need to cover too much of that. But let's go to paddock. You know, we'll preface this by saying there are some more Patek Philippe watches that, you know, should be launching next week that we don't know about yet. So we're kind of limited here. We'll have more coverage of that when information's available, but for this first day of Watches and Wonders, Paddock dropped four Nautilus references, including a 5991R, which is the rose gold travel time chronograph, uh with a blue dial fine i think we can set that aside the thing we gotta talk about is the 5711a do do we do we have to talk about this dude i like are when i saw this i i saw this watch, no joke, for the first time at 2 a.m. this morning when I woke up to, you know, start my shift covering. And in the three hours I was asleep, this watch dropped. Like, I thought the 571
Ben Clymer 1 was dead. What what happened here? Yeah, I mean th there's been rumors and and Thierry even said in in an interview somewhere that they were gonna do like one kind of final homage to 5711. And you know, it's been all over Instagram that it was gonna be a green dial and when when the 15202 AP came out with a green dial, like you know, everyone was laughing because we knew this was going to come out and the Aquanaut has a green dial and blah blah blah blah. But you know, I think it's interesting to cancel a reference and then do one final version of it. It happens often. It happens in Porsche, you know, they canceled the 991 and then they came back with a 991 speedster, which is like the final version of the 991, you know, well after the 992 was already introduced. Happens in cars all the time, happens in watches here and there. The most frustrating to me about this watch is the number of requests that I have gotten today from people that I know to varying degrees, you know, people that are in my life in some way, know me well enough to have my my personal mobile number that say something like, Hey Ben, like I know this is unlikely, but like I want this watch more than any other watch I've ever wanted in my life. Can you help me get it? And my answer to them, as as you know, I've told you guys before, it just's I'm like, I'm sorry, I r I really can't. Even if I could, like I I would be able to get one maybe. And that's that's a real maybe, probably not even. And it would be for myself if if if I would want to do it, but I don't. And it's just like it is amazing for people to think that they can come in now in the Nautilus craze and ask for this watch without having, you know, been a Patek client or even been on their radar or whatever. And like I think SJX or somebody, I saw it somewhere else, not on our site, but elsewhere, somebody said this is kind of the ultimate token of insider status. If you can get this watch, that means you are inside this kind of like giant wall of Patek Philippe, you know, kind of uh fandom and and and friendship. And to get inside that wall, I mean this is candy for the biggest collectors in the world. Like the the guy that wants to buy and the Nautilus used to be the entry level Patek. It's no longer that. We all know that. You only get a watch like this, a 50-7-11 period, let alone this limited edition one, if you're spending so much money with an authorized dealer, it's not even funny. I mean, like an obscene level, you know? Or you just have something over, you know, an authorized dealer and say, you owe me a favor, I want this watch or whatever. I mean, it is so beyond the realm of gettable for anybody that isn't one of those guys already, that doesn't probably have Terry Stern's personal email address already, that it's just like, it's so frustrating for me to just tell these these friends of mine over and over again, or you know, associates of mine, I should say, friends would know better, that it's just like, no, like that this is not gettable for you, no matter how influential you are or wealthy you are or anything. It's driving me fucking nuts. I gotta be honest. Like this is I'm not kidding. I've gotten like five like frantic messages from people of like some some note just being like, I want this more than anything. And in most cases, they don't even know why they want it, you know, they just know that it's hard to get and they're gonna ask the watch guy if they can if he can help them get it. Uh it is so frustrating. It's so silly. The Nautilus I love as we all know, I have one, but it is, it's just it's it's too much, Stephen. It's gotta it's gotta stop. It's gotta stop. Ben, can I ask you a question
Jack Forster ? Of course. Can you help me get one? No, that's not the question. So so here's here's the real here's the real question that I have for you. A few years back I was uh talking to someone in the fashion world who which and I don't talk to people in the fashion world all that often because that's not my beat, but you know our worlds intersect every once in a while. So this this individual said, I thought P.T. Woma this year was ridiculous. Everybody's dressing like a clown and it's because nobody has any taste anymore. They're all just dressing for Instagram. Correct. So do you think this watch basically exists because of Instagram? Yes,
Ben Clymer I do. Yes, I do. Look, it's it's a great watch, you know? It is the the 5711 or any any Nautilus, reference to the Nautilus, is is wonderful. And like, you know, I can't say enough good things about it, but is it worth this type of hype? It's just not. It's just it's just really not. And again, that's not a knock on Patek at all. I think Patek would would love it if there was less hype around this product so that they could get back to being known for doing the stuff that they're amazing at, such as like ultra-slim split-second perpetual calendars and just straight-up perpetual calendars and turbions and minute repeaters. Like that is what makes Patek Patek not the Nautilus. And I think it's becoming a a real problem for them. And I think for the industry in general, and Steven and I have talked about this on previous episodes, but like it's just so boring. It's just so freaking boring. You know, like that one of the gentlemen that reached out to me today is is a creative of of some kind of you know really talented, well-known person. And I'm just like, wow, like you are so beyond this in every other every other realm in your life. Like you are so deep cut on everything you do from your home to your clothes to your cars to everything. And you want like the most basic bitch watch you could possibly ask for right now, which is a steel green dial Nautilus. And it's just like it's it's you know, I I think you know, a lot of guys when they meet me on the street, they always want my approval for a watch. And if somebody showed me the green dial nautilus, I would not be impressed. I just wouldn't. I would say that I'm really happy for you. You got something that is very, very difficult to get. But this is not exceptional in any way. It's just not.
Jack Forster So you're talking about people who like a lot of the folks who are reaching out to you, these are people who in other respects, you know, they can they definitely demonstrate deep, well-educated taste. They can be trusted to pick their own clothes. They can be trusted to choose a decent wine off a off a wine list. They they know something about automotive. Uh and they regard they regard demonstrating knowledge as part and parcel of the pleasure of connoisseurship. But when it comes to the Nautilus, for some reason they're reduced to the level of being a six year old who is irritated because they don't have the latest McDonald's happy meal toy. Is that is that about the size of it? Yeah that that's about the size of it. I I I think think
Stephen Pulvirent you said that pretty well, Jack. Yeah. It's so frustrating. I I gotta say it's fun, it's fun for me that like all I had to do here was be like, so you guys want to talk about the Nautilus? And like the two of you are like so spun up and and like frustrated by this and I I just want to say like I I get it like and and I think we all like anyone quote unquote like on the inside here anybody who works in this world who occupies this world day in and day out is so sick of this. And like, to be clear, when I said that when I saw this watch, I just like rolled my eyes and was like, Ugh, really? It's not because the watch isn't good. It's because, like, again, to your point, Ben, like, I know why this watch exists and Jack, to your point, it's for Instagram. And it just it just there's something lame about it in that way that I just like can't get behind. And it I don't know. I mean it it feels like it's a cool watch on the surface and there's just like nothing below that. Like there's nothing underneath the surface here. You
Jack Forster guys have both slipped in um almost as an aside, the view that you don't you don't actually think this is a bad watch. No
Stephen Pulvirent , I I own a 57-11. I think it's a great watch. Yeah, this watch is beautiful. Like aesthetically, I think this watch is great. I think the color of green is really nice. Like I would personally prefer a blue dial on a watch like this to green, but that's just, you know, I basically only wear like blue and gray. So it's uh it's it it works. But uh yeah, I mean that the problem isn't the product. It's like at all. Honestly, the problem isn't the produ
Ben Clymer ct, it's the customers. That's exactly it. The the the problem isn't Patek Philippe. It's not the dealer network. It's it's none of that. It it is everybody else that that is just this like kinda hive mentality of like this is what we want now. And because I saw I don't even know who had it on Instagram. You know, I mean I I'm thinking of the usual suspects of influencers and watches, and like most of them don't really wear 5711 that often. But other people do, and it's just because there's been so many stories in the mainstream press, the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, et cetera, about how difficult it is. Then all of a sudden you get the guys that are on the periphery, though the finance guys, the guys that just like want to have cool stuff. And there're throwing just tons of cash at at this problem. And all of a sudden they have it. And now the the secondary market for 5711 is 100 grand plus. And it's like, I mean, look, I mean, let's take this back to where we were 20 minutes ago or however long this was, but like would you rather have for a hundred and five thousand dollars the Longa perpetual calendar, Longa One perpetual calendar in white gold, or a fifty-seven eleven in steel? You know, it's like you can't even compare them. I don
Jack Forster 't know, man. That's that's tough, Ben. I'm I'm look I'm looking to you know punch up my number of Instagram followers and uh I know which one of those watches would do the trick
Ben Clymer . It it's yeah i i I mean that that's very very cute but like you know it's one of those things where like having like know knowinging how Patek runs their ship, like they ain't happy about this either. You know what I mean? Like they they care about craft and they care about what goes into this stuff and they are I mean like they are the like you know the driving force behind complicated wristwatches of the 20th century and to have their brand kind of reduced to like the maker of one steel sports watch that like they didn't even design, it's got to be frustrating for them. I can imagine it's frustrating for them. When again, when you can buy a 5027 P or G or J or whatever at discount for the same price as a 5711A. I mean, it's just like it's it's bananas.
Stephen Pulvirent I mean, to that point, I'm I'm gonna pull us out of Nautilus hell here and Thank you toward complicated watchmaking, which I know both of you will enjoy. And for that, let's let's go to Vashron. Let's maybe start with a watch that in some ways kind of shares some some DNA here, at least uh some conceptual ground with the Nautilus, which is the new Overseas Perpetual Calendar Ultra Thin, which is a watch that's been out for a couple of years now. It's fantastic. I think we are all fans of this watch. But now it's in white gold with either a blue dial or a skeletonized blue dial. And I have to say, like when I pulled up the images of these, I kind of like gasped a little bit. They're just really striking looking.
Ben Clymer They are. Yeah. It's it's a knockout. It's knockout. Yeah. I mean th th this watch, you know, I can I can talk a lot about this one. And and again, these are hundred thousand dollar watches, but these are perpetual calendars for a hundred thousand dollars. And again, I'm not suggesting that the tech would charge a hundred thousand dollars for a 5711A but that's what they're that's what they're trading for at least that's what people are asking uh on the secondary market and this watch is you know again it's Vachron it's interchangeable bracelets which I which is wonderful. This this watch in this is a white gold bracelet, white gold watch, perpetual calendar is $94,000. Uh and that that to me, relative to the 57-11, et cetera, uh is is a is a screaming deal. And these are actually difficult to get to. It's not like you know these are are everywhere. But again, I think I I find the the overseas and and really any integrated bracelet watch from a high-end manufacturer just so much more interesting than the Nautilus or the Royal Oak right now, simply because the others are overexposed. And again, I'm the biggest fans of the Nautilus and the Royal Oak kind of as objects, own them both, have for a long time, always will. But enough is enough. And I think I think Vacheron is really onto something here with their overseas line and I know that the the one that they did a few years ago in Rose Gold that looked a lot like this was just a runaway hit for them. And I I I hope we see the same thing here
Jack Forster . Yeah, I mean I agree with you completely, Ben. I think this watch is an absolute knockout. I love the overseas in general. I think it's you know to this day I think it's underexposed in terms of its you know merits in terms of design and how it feels on the wrist. We're not doing physical trade shows right now, but every time I've had a chance to put one of these on, either at the boutique or at um SIHH slash Watches and Wonders, it just it goes on the wrist and you just sort of, you know, you can feel your shoulders dropping. They're just so much fun to wear, so relaxing to wear. They're so, so elegant and there's just not this there isn't the whole psychological burden that goes along with wearing some other more exposed models when you put one of these things on. You feel like you're really enjoying it for what it is and not for the kind of public aura that's growing up around it. And to me, that's a big part of the attraction. Yeah.
Stephen Pulvirent Totally agree. I completely agree too. And I I think it speaks to something that Vacheron does really well, kind of at a higher level, which is making complicated high-end watchmaking feel fun and contemporary and approachable, which for, you know, what is by many measures like one of the oldest, if not the oldest, continually operating watch manufacturer in Switzerland, like that's that's no small task
Ben Clymer . Here's a little trivia question. What what year was Vashron founded? Can either one of you tell me? Oh Seventeen eighty three. No. Seventeen thirty five. Come on. No. Close check. Well I know they're two hundred and sixty five years old. Seventeen thirty eight? Se
Stephen Pulvirent venteen fifty five, guys. Come on. Seventeen fifty five. I knew that. There we go. It's okay. That's Man, we just Jack we Jack, we gotta get our resumes together. I'll proof yours if you'll prove mine. Yeah, exactly exactly Let's go uh Historiques 1921, The American. Yeah
Ben Clymer . Great watch. I mean, yes. One one of my favorites from from way back. Uh now in in white gold and excellence platino, which of th they've never done, which is one of those crazy editions they do in full platinum, including the stitching on the strap. Look, I I love these watches. I always have, you know, this latest white gold version on kind of a more kind of casual calf strap, I think, is is really nice. I really like it in 362. I'll be honest and say I was I was hoping for a little bit more, uh, considering this is in fact the hundredth anniversary of this watch. But uh look, I think it's great and I think it'll do really
Stephen Pulvirent well for them. Yeah, I think so too. I kind of had the same feeling. I thought we might get like a line extension or some like crazy limited edition, or which I guess the platine is, but yeah, I've I've always really liked this watch. I like the idea of wearing this watch as a casual watch, as it was kind of like originally intended. And I also am just a huge fan of these excellence platine LEs. They did a uh Patrimony small seconds a couple years ago that I like absolutely fell in love with. But I think it really works for this watch. I think those raised numerals and that grain dial really take this to kind of another level. I mean, I know Jack, I know you're a longtime fan of this watch too.
Jack Forster Huge fan. Huge fan. I mean, uh the so the pricing on these is interesting. The thirty-six point five millimeter guy is twenty-nine six, the forty millimeter white gold guy is thirty-five nine, and it's forty-nine seven for excellence platine. And you know that's objectively speaking, an awful lot of money. But it doesn't feel like it for some reason, and I think that's partly I don't know. I mean obviously it has to do with the fact that we've seen you know year over year increases in luxury watches, especially in precious metals, pretty much across the board for at least the last fifteen years, probably longer. But they don't feel that expensive for what they are for some strange reason. So you'll be buying
Stephen Pulvirent two of them. I mean, J Jack, I think we have them in the hodinky shop, so I think you know a guy. You can make you can make a phone call there. You can probably get your name at the top of the list. That guy's name is Stephen Pulvering. Call him. See what happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm tak
Jack Forster ing a cut. That's uh that's the move here. I do love I do love before we leave the uh the nineteen twenty one, I have to say I do love seeing it at Excellence Platine. I think that was a great decision on Vacheron's part. It's just
Stephen Pulvirent such a that this watch is such a natural in platinum. Yeah. All right. The last watch I want to pick your brains on is another Excellence Platine watch. This one, you know, even more complicated. Let's let's get really complicated to finish things off. This is the traditional split seconds chronograph ultra thin collection excellence split in Jack. This is one of those watches that like when I saw it, I was like, oh, this is like this is a jack watch. You know, like this this is something Jack's gonna love. Jack will know everything about this thing. What's your kind of hot take on this this piece? I uh absolutely love it
Jack Forster . I mean, I think that it's uh I think it's pretty much perfect in just about every respect. It's fantastic in terms of size. I think it's the movement is obviously super interesting. I I don't know why. Maybe it has something to do with a a story that I was able to do a couple of years ago was it a couple of years ago on platinum, sort of where it comes from, you know, why it's hard to work with and what makes it such a fantastic metal for luxury watchcases. But I've platinum's really been growing on me in a way and I I never thought it would and to see that metal combined with this kind of just drop dead gorgeous high-end watchmaking. It's fantastic. You know, I mean we could talk about the price, I guess. It's uh uh it's fifteen piece limited edition at two hundred and eighty eight thousand dollars. Relative to what other companies are charging for this kind of complication in platinum, that's actually more or less on par. I mean a paddock charges something similar for uh let me just look it up. Yeah the fifty three seventy is 274,410 bucks. So, you know, definitely within uh you know spinning distance of each other in terms of price. But there's so much watchmaking content here, you know. I mean if you're gonna spend a quarter of a million bucks plus on on a watch, I mean it's a lot easier to make an argument for why it's uh in some sense worth it in this case than for a lot of other watches
Ben Clymer that are uh in the same ballpark. I would argue that this is actually a screaming deal. And the the reason I say that is as again, I love split seconds, I love Corngraphs, platinum, basher on the whole thing. This is an ultra slim self-winding split second. And I think you know the comparison to the 5370 is apt because they're they're similar in price point. The other one is Patek, obviously. But that movement is actually different in some ways. That that is not like a fully kind of integrated split second. That is basically the movement that's in the 5170 with a split second module kind of sandwiched on top. So it's a little bit, it's actually quite a bit thicker than this Vashron. I think the real Computer Jack would be the movement that's used in the 5950A, which is that incredibly slim, non-self-winding uh split second that that patek I think no longer makes but I've written about on the site and this is one of those things that is you know you just you just don't see them these are application pieces uh from Patek. These watches were in the high threes or low fours, they were non-self-winding, but they were about as thin as this. And I think that's, I think, maybe an even better comparison from Patek. So in in that regard, and I'll look up the price somehow. Uh let's see. Retail price for the 5950A, which was again A is for steel, was 441,600 as of what year was this written? This was written in 2014. So to get an equally slim split second from Patek, you're talking 400,000 plus. Uh so in that regard, I actually think from a watchmaking perspective, this is believe it or not, I think a screaming deal for what you're getting. There's some things that I would change around the dial in the case and all that, but I think overall it's it's just it's a it's a it's a absolutely incredible watch, maybe even an incredible value for what you're getting. This is real, real high-end watch making. Yeah, ye
Stephen Pulvirent ah, for sure. And this conversation right here is why I keep the two of you guys around. They're uh the the perspective that Vascheron has put out one of the best, you know, kind of fully integrated split-second chronograph movements around and offered it in full platinum at what is like actually really good value. I think is maybe perspective that people wouldn't wouldn't come to on their own. But I think it's really helpful. And I think it shows that, you know, especially when you're looking at this part of the market, you know, of any of the brands we talked about today, like context is kind of king, you know? Uh yeah. There's a lot of variables, a lot of things at play, and it's it's all about the details and all about knowing kind of like what else is out there. What do you guys think of the fact that the the caliber thirty
Jack Forster five hundred in this watch, the last it's it's been s almost six years since uh since the last time we saw it. Yeah, we saw it we saw it the
Ben Clymer last time we saw it was in the Harmony in twenty fifteen. Yeah. I it's it's it's amazing that they've waited kind of that long to use this thing again because I remember seeing it back then and just being absolutely blown away by it. It's one of the best movements in the world, it it it from my perspective. It it really is. It's right up there with several of the the Patek kind of calibers in in this space. Uh it is interesting that they waited that long to use it. So I'm looking right now at that Harmony uh special edition. That was 10 pieces. This is 15. So they've made I guess what uh 25 uh examples of this caliber over the last like eight years. I mean, that is an amazing amount of RD to put into a new movement to only make 25 times. Uh, I'm sure they've done them on special pieces here and there, but I mean, really special. And I I think what is often kind of forgotten about or just overlooked when we talk about chronographs is everyone assumes that that Langa makes the best kind of chronograph. And I think that's true up to a certain price point. Up and it's like there's so many different levels of watchmaking, as we know. Like there's there's the Daytona chronograph, Speedmaster chronograph, and then you get into paddock Langa Vacheron. And there, I I would argue that the Langa Datagraph 1815 blah blah blah is is the most interesting high in chronograph. But then there's the level above that, as somebody in Slack said, you know, recently on something else, it's like the level after next. And the level after next in watchmaking are movements like this. And so, you know, Patek still makes an ultra slim split second perpetual calendar. I forget the reference. I think it's 5372, which is like a $700,000 watch. And then Vashron makes stuff like this. So there are levels that are so beyond like consumer grade chronographs that I think we often forget about them. I think this Vashron is a reminder that that Vashron is capable of doing stuff like that. Yeah oh absolutely I think that it's at
Jack Forster least as uh I think you make a great point Ben this is a a symbolically important watch for Vashron. You know it's a it's a statement of capability, it's an acknowledgement of their history. And I think it's really, really cool that they combine some, you know, some real technical innovations in making a split second chronograph, you know, with the complication itself, which in its classic form is f you know it's fairly difficult to make. It's actually uh harder to make a classic split seconds chronograph than it is to make a turbion. And for them to put together some forward-thinking, you know, really pretty modern technical solutions into such a a drop-dead gorgeous, you know, classically finished, classically designed movement. Uh you know, you had a micro rotor winding system, so you have all of the visual pleasure of a hand wound caliber with all of the convenience of automatic winding. And you know, I mean convenience is not the argument for buying a watch like this, but you know, sort of all of those things together, plus the exclusivity, plus, you know, the fact that it's from Vashron, uh it's just uh it's such a compelling, compelling watch. I feel like that's w one of my top five watches of watches and wonders so far at least at the very least. Definitely. I I
Stephen Pulvirent couldn't agree more. Yeah. Same here. Well, awesome guys. Thank you so much for doing this. If people are looking for more coverage of paddock, Fonga, Vashron, tons of other brands, make sure to hit up the site. All the watches we talked about today, uh you can find links in the show notes to our coverage, and we'll have plenty more rolling out over the next few days. And I'm sure I'm going to drag you guys back on mic uh sometime soon to talk a little more about this. All right. Thanks so much, guys. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Steven. Thanks for having us on.