Watches & Wonders 2021 First Look – Rolex & Tudor¶
Published on Wed, 7 Apr 2021 22:15:00 +0000
Two-tone Explorers and sterling silver Black Bays? We're as surprised as you are.
Synopsis¶
In this Hodinkee Radio special episode recorded during Watches and Wonders 2021, hosts Stephen Pulvirent, Jack Forster, and Ben Clymer discuss the major releases from Rolex and Tudor. The team published approximately 40 stories covering the digital event, representing an unprecedented scale for the watch industry.
The conversation focuses heavily on Rolex's conservative approach to innovation. They discuss the updated Explorer II, which received expected refinements like a slimmer case profile and upgraded movement, but no dramatic changes despite being an anniversary year. The hosts note this is典型 Rolex behavior—iterative improvements rather than revolutionary redesigns. More surprising was the Explorer I returning to 36mm from 39mm and the introduction of a two-tone version, which the hosts found both bizarre and intriguing. They theorize Rolex is conditioning consumers to accept precious metals across their sports watch lineup.
The discussion covers new Daytona variations with meteorite dials in precious metals, playful new DateJust dials including "fluted" and "palm" patterns, and Rolex's increasing willingness to have fun with dial designs while maintaining technical excellence. Jack emphasizes Rolex's manufacturing capabilities, noting they use femtosecond lasers for dial production—technology typically found only in national laboratories.
On Tudor, the hosts are shocked by two Black Bay Fifty-Eight releases in precious metals: one in sterling silver and one in solid gold, both with sapphire case backs revealing industrial movements. At $16,800 for the gold version, these represent Tudor's push upmarket. They also discuss the new Black Bay Chrono with panda dial, clearly referencing the Daytona aesthetic at a more accessible $5,225 price point. Ben suggests these releases show both brands are moving toward more precious metal offerings and playful variations while maintaining their core identities.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Jack Forster | The problem with Rolex, if there is, if you can talk about this as a problem, is that some of their designs see see, you know, they feel so classic that you almost feel as if you're part of a tradition that was there before you got there exists outside of you to an enormous, enormous degree and is going to is definitely going to continue after you are dead, gone and dust. And uh you know, at least with like with a 36mm two-tone explorer, you know, you are you are definitely standing out from the crowd to the extent that you can do that if you're wearing a Rolex at all |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Hey everybody, I'm your host Stephen Polverin and this is Hodinky Radio. It's Wchesat and Wonders this week, and so over the next couple of days, we're gonna be dropping a whole bunch of short podcasts with various team members to give you all the up-to-the-minute news you need about the biggest brands at Watches and Wonders. So to kick things off, I thought I would get Jack and Ben in the virtual studio to talk Rolex and Tutor. Uh what's going on guys? Well gosh, where do we start? There's there's quite a lot going on. I think we just published uh like 40 stories |
| Ben Clymer | or something? Yeah, it it was overwhelming. I mean I I woke up early as as I do every day and and saw what was going on in in Slack and you know I was kinda giving my hot takes and kind of like interrupting the actual work uh that was being done at at five and six this morning. I'm sure Nick Marino and all you guys really appreciated that. Uh but yeah, I mean just slammed with with new releases today. Um so you know, this is this is like Christmas for for guys like me. |
| Jack Forster | This is such a wild time uh you know in the industry. This is this is literally the first time that the watch industry has ever done anything at this scale in terms of digital releases. Forty-plus brands uh releasing dozens and dozens of watches over more or less over a week-long period, although we got a lot of stuff in early, and it's just been uh it's it's been amazing. I mean uh we we're sort of working in shifts. The editorial team started at one o'clock this morning uh when stuff started coming in from Switzerland. And um you know we've been sort of going ever since and, it's ki it's kind of exhilarating |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . All right. So I mean, let's just get into it. Let's talk Rolex. Uh everybody was expecting some crazy Explorer 2 release. It's the anniversary of that piece. It hasn't been updated in a while. And we got a new one, but it's I think it's not the craziness everyone was expecting, right |
| Ben Clymer | ? Yeah, I mean, it it it's definitely not crazy at all. I'm but it it's it's exactly what anybody who knows Rolex at all would expect, right? I mean it's effectively what they did to the Summariner in September, they did to the Explorer 2 today, right? They they upgraded the movement into into, you know, the the more recent calibers, which, you know, from from a jack perspective is I'm sure, you know, super exciting. Uh they slimmed down the case profile and you know, a little tweaks here and there, but that they made something that was already very strong, just a little bit stronger, and and that's that. And again, I think like, you know, e people at at scale are are so disappointed every year with Rolex, just like kinda I was in the beginning of it. Uh and you know, Stephen and I always laugh about my like utter like gross disappointment with them when when they came out with the Platinum Daytona on the fiftieth anniversary of the Daytona in 2013. And it's just like this is what they do. Like they just they just iterate on things and make things better, nominally better e every single year. Uh and and that's that. So I I don't know what people were expecting. I'm guessing ceramic bezels on an Explorer two or or something, uh, which kind of goes against the very essence of what an Explorer Two is uh anyway. Uh so from the Explorer Two side of things, it's like, yeah, this this is what Rolex does. Like this isn't surprising to me at all. You |
| Jack Forster | know, it's funny that you should mention twenty thirteen, Ben, because uh you know, we were both at Basel World then. And you know, you think back on that, and there if uh if you look back at what Rolex has done on significant anniversaries, there's reason there was reason to believe that they might do something strange and unexpected with the Explore 2 for this particular anniversary. But as you say they didn't, you know, I mean uh I was thinking about what would sort of be the thing that would Yeah no I I I completely agree |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I I totally agree too. And I I I think, you know, there was some chatter online about maybe the size changing, maybe the profile changing and you know, like Ben mentioned, they've they've kind of shaved the case down a little bit. It's got this kind of new profile similar to the the sub, we think. But like within the context of Rolex's lineup, this watch serves a a very specific role, right? Like it sits at 42 millimeters, it's steel, it has that steel bezel. Uh it's black and white dials, which the other sport watches, uh with the exception of the Daytona, I guess, don't have that flexibility. Um it's it is what it is for both its own reasons, like for the Explorer 2, and also for Rolex's catalog more broadly. |
| Ben Clymer | Yeah. And I mean the Explorer 2 has never been, you know, kind of a you know a f I I I don't want to use the term flagship, but like it's it's never been a model that's been incredibly hot for anybody. You know, there are people that love it. I've I've had them. I I I really like them. I know our our our pal James Stacey really likes them. Um but this is not a submariner, it's not a Daytona, it's not an explorer, it's it's it's really, you know it's really kind of the other sports watch in in some ways. Um and you know again I it's it's always been a great watch. This this you know new 42 millimeter version with the thinner case and thinner lugs and upgraded movement, I'm sure will also be a great great, movement and great watch. Um but I mean like you know myself, Jack, Stephen, yourself, like we've all known the folks at Rolex long enough to know that like, yeah, like this is just what they do. Like anybody that's expecting anything crazy is just gonna be disappointing. 'Cause like even like even like the hottest watch that I can remember coming out from Rolex in recent memory, which was the Steel Daytona, effectively took the watch that existed, you know, the week before and put on a ceramic bezel. And like that's it. You know, I mean it's the same movement. You know, like I think that even had the same clasp. Like, you know, that was that was like, oh my God, Rolex has finally done it. They put on a ceramic bezel. But like that's all they did. You know? And so I think like anybody really expecting them to do something nutty with like a new movement or a moon phase or split second or anything like that is just like nah, like that's that's not what Rolex does. The definition of |
| Stephen Pulvirent | of what constitutes new at Rolex is is really interesting. Like while other watchmakers are focused on new families of watches, new models, new complications, new whatever, like Rolex kind of operates on or and trades on the opposite. The idea that whether you buy an explorer to today or, you bought one 20 years ago, or you bought one 10 years before that, like it's basically the same watch. Like it gets technologically better and they they refine some things, but like part of the cachet is that these watches are iconic and that they don't change. Like that's a feature, not a bug |
| Jack Forster | . I mean you're you know Ben, you're right. It always has been a little bit of a niche watch within the Rolex lineup, um, you know, uh among those among the sports watches. And wearing one, choose choosing to wear an Explorer too, if you're not um a spelunker, I guess, is uh it's kinda like it's kinda like choosing to wear a bow tie, you know, it's something that you do partly because you like them, but also partly because you want to send a sort of overt signal of your unwillingness to sort of follow the crowd. You want you actually want to be a little bit different. And it functionally it's a fantastic watch. It's a great watch to travel with. I was, you know, joking about about the cave business. Obviously you don't need to be a spellunker to wear one and find it useful. But one of the things that I've always kind of liked about the model is the fact that it is a little bit of an outsider. You know, it's not it's not uh unlike the Submariner something that you see sort of or the Daytona something that you see people |
| Ben Clymer | Totally agree. Totally agree. And and I think I mean you you just touched on it, right? Like this was this this was created for spelunkers, for cavers, right? Like this isn't diving, which was huge back then and even quite qu quiteite you know, uh popular today. Wasn't race car driving, it wasn't climbing up mountains, like this was for for cave caving, really splunking. Uh and I mean that that is a pretty, pretty niche market to begin with. Uh and you know, and then you create a watch that is like you know eight or nine thousand dollars for people that that are kind of cave diving and spelunking. Like it the market gets that much smaller. I mean it's a little bit like the mill gous and stuff. That is a pretty odd odd kind of you know kind of use case for for uh sports watching I mean even the word spelunking it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue does |
| Jack Forster | it it does not have you have you guys been spelunking |
| Ben Clymer | ? Uh jeez uh only as on only as a tourist. Yeah, no. It's uh in in my in my Eagle Scout days, my Boy Scout days, we used to go once a year to to West Virginia and we would go spelunking with like carbide lights on our helmets and like the whole thing. And it's terrifying. I mean it's it's it's absolutely terrifying. And I I at the time didn't know what an explorer two was, otherwise I certainly would have been yearning for one at least that one weekend of the year. Nice. Yeah. Well, I I wanna make su |
| Stephen Pulvirent | re we we get a chance to talk about the other explorer, uh, which for me personally, is the much more exciting news, which is that uh the Explorer, the Explorer 1, uh is now back to 36 millimeters from 39, and there's a new two-tone version uh that I gotta say on paper sounds like a terrible idea, but I'm kinda into it. |
| Ben Clymer | Yeah. Yeah. No, me me too. I mean I I think I mean first let's talk about the the the downsizing. Going back to thirty six was was was really shocking to me in in the Explorer. Because I actually think thirty nine I look I the explorers that I've owned have always been thirty six, the vintage ones. But thirty nine is a really great size for for any Rolex. You know, the the thirty nine OP, which I guess is now is that no longer with us? Forty one. Right. I mean, yeah, right, 41. So I mean like the 39 is a great size, and it's interesting to me to see uh no longer uh those watches available, the the OP or the the Explorer one. Thirty-six, of course is true to its roots it's wonderful but i mean the two-tone thing is is weird i mean really very very odd i sent it to a a very serious watch friend of mine this morning with wtf uh and he's just like right? Um you know it',s it's one of those things like they did it with the uh I was gonna say space dweller, but that's not right. Sea Dweller. They did it with the Sea Dweller, uh what, two years ago or maybe last year. Um and it's uh and again it's like huh, okay, like weird. And then with with the seed dweller, it made a little bit of sense because if you remember the original deep sea, like the very first deep sea, was actually two ton and it was yellow, gold, and steel. So it's like, okay, like that, that kind of computed a little bit. I don't know of any precious metal explorer ones period. Although if it exists and somebody has one, I would love to buy it from you. You can name your price, 'cause that that sounds like a really cool thing. Um but uh yeah, it really really quite bizarre and I think, you know, it might indicate what what Rolex sees for the future of their sports watches in general, which is is precious metal and kind of like real like luxury objects as opposed to to what they were created. You know, it's kind of hilarious that you mention |
| Jack Forster | ed the uh the original deep sea, the you know the two tone with that giant hemispheric crystal. I had completely forgotten that it is that it uh is is wasn't his two tone and but you know of course you're absolutely right which is at least as bizarre a choice as making an a 36mm explorer two tone. Although I kind of like it. I you know, f sort of for the same reason that I like the Explorer, it's a little bit um, you know, sort of pushing the boundaries of expectations. Like the problem with Rolex, if there is if you can talk about this as a problem, is that some of their designs see if see you know they feel so classic that you almost feel as if your part of a tradition that was there before you got there exists outside of you to an enormous, enormous degree and is going to is definitely going to continue after you are dead, gone and dust. And uh you know, at least with like with a 36mm two-tone explorer, you know, you are you are definitely standing out from the crowd to the extent that you can do that if you're wearing a Rolex at |
| Ben Clymer | all. Yeah, it it's it's just it's an incredibly interesting choice. And and again, I would love to, and I'm sure I'll never have the opportunity to because they don't they don't do stuff like this. I would love to just pick somebody's brain on this and you know what's the thinking behind that? And and again, I think you know, we we've seen Rolex go upmarket. We with you know the steel watches are basically on obtaining them at this point. And you know, the thing that I've heard kind of through the grapevine for the past few years is that they're they're positioning these two-tone watches as a way to kind of condition folks to to spend for gold, right? And so, you know, the the the steel uh explorers in the sixes, I think, the the two-tone explorers in the tens or elevens. And if there were to ever be a solid gold explorer, which sounds incredibly cool, you know, that would probably be in the twenties or thirties, right? So there's this huge jump. Uh and so I think, you know, when when you look at uh the Daytonas, which you know, everybody wants a steel watch and now people are are paying above retail for the gold watches. Uh and you know, they're doing with Oyster Flex and and Two Tone First and then kind of going into the full gold metal, uh the full full gold bracelet watches. Um so I again it it kind of leads me to believe that Rolex is really conditioning all of us to get used to wearing precious metal. Well |
| Jack Forster | so here's a question for you guys. Why does why does a uh why does a solid gold explorer seem to make more sense than a than a two-tone explorer |
| Ben Clymer | ? I mean I I can give you my answer, and and I think, you know, my answer would be that like, you know, the the the the folks that I know that wear that are not watch guys, that are just like actual civilians that wear solid gold submariners or Daytonas or whatever, usually wear them as kind of like celebratory tokens for something that they've achieved. You know, it's like, yeah, like I was a whatever. I I won Daytona and I wore steel Daytonas my entire career, and now I'm eighty years old and I, you know, I live in Palm Beach or you know in Carmel, California, and I wear a gold Daytona because like this is this is the watch that I'm used to and I'm familiar with, but it's gold now and I deserve it, you know? And I think that that to me is why gold Rolexes really work. And I I'm even guilty of that myself sometimes. Um and two tone is kind of like just just going halfway. You know, it's like it's it's not it's not like okay, a crowning achievement type of watch, like okay, I made it. Uh it's just it's a little bit of this, a little bit of that. I think it's very cool. I think you know two tone is is is is becoming more in vogue and becoming more acceptable for for guys you know kind of younger than than you know in in their in their elderly uh you know phases of life. But um yeah I think for some reason solid gold Rolex is just have that that kind of like inherent emotional weight |
| Stephen Pulvirent | to them for sure. Yeah, I I think you're right too, Ben, that like if we look to the past, we can see that this this has kind of been coming, right? Like we got there have been two-tone subs forever, there have been two tone Daytonas for a while, two tone GMT is, then we got the C Dweller, like it really does the Sky Dweller uh two-tone models are supposedly extremely popular, um, at least within that that range. So it's it's interesting. I'll be curious to see if we like see a two-tone milgauss at some point. Like I I don't know. But I I do think it's it's uh a statement about kind of where Rolex is going uh beyond just this watch. |
| Jack Forster | A two town Belgauss would be hilarious because that's that's a watch that says, uh I made it I'm I'm tremendously successful as a particle physicist, but it still doesn't pay that well. Just before we move on, I want to say that I was terribly amused that you and Danny Milton both um separately made the same joke about the Steel uh Explorer 2, which is that uh which was I'm wearing a thirty si milxlimeter explorer and I want that thirty six millimeter explorer |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Dude, I'm I'm wearing one right now. I mean we're on a zoom call, the people listening can't see, but like I am wearing a thirty six millimeter explorer and this is still the watch I want to buy most of anything I think I've seen today. It does. And and I mean I think you know we've talked a lot about like what we can learn about Rolex from this, but one of the things is like with a the headline here is the explorer went back to 36, but the new 36 millimeter explorer is not the same as the old one. Like this case has a completely different shape, the flanks are much steeper, so you get brighter reflections. The way the bracelet meets the case and the way the end links are shaped, it sort of tries to make it look like the bracelet just kind of like disappears into the case. You've got the new movement with the chronurgy escapement. Like this is this is again like to what we said about the the Explorer 2, like when Rolex comes out with something new, sure, sometimes we get that like headline grabbing thing, but underneath all of that, you're still gonna get all of those Rolex things where this is just like a in many ways like better watch. Um we haven't seen it in person yet obviously since we just saw pictures like a couple hours ago but uh Rolex is also saying that the chroma light is new that this is like better loom that they've developed. So I don't know. This is this is one I'm really curious to see in person and see how much how how new it really feels uh versus how much it feels like a return to form. All right. In terms of other newness, uh now we're getting into just like new combinations of things and new dials. I want to talk about the Daytonas. We got three new precious metal Daytonas, white gold on Oyster Flex, yellow gold on yellow gold bracelet, and pink gold on pink gold bracelet or ever rose on ever rose, uh, all with meteorite dials. Uh I know just from talking to you, Jack, about this in Slack uh over the last couple hours, you're pretty excited about this. I am too. Uh Ben, what's what's kind of your first take on meteorite dialed Aitanna |
| Ben Clymer | ? Yeah, I mean look, there's precedent here. It it makes sense. Uh I mean not not necessarily my my bag, but I I'm I'm totally okay with it. And I I think what what's kinda interesting is that there actually quite a few more I mean th these are just new dials of existing watches. All these watches existed just just now with meteorite. There's actually quite a few more new dial variations in the Daytona catalog this year that that didn't get included in the press release. And if you go to Rolex and then go to the Daytona kind of collection and scroll through to page two, you can see that there's now a yellow gold uh on Oyster Flex with diamond dial. There is a ever rose on oyster flex which didn't exist before with this dial. Uh, there's quite a few new dial combinations. There's a ever rose on bracelet with diamond dial, quite a few diam uh diamond dials this year. So there's probably another six to ten new combinations of Daytonas with dials, most of them with diamonds, it looks like. Um, and so I I think that is, you know, look for the hardcore guy, which I guess you could call me, in fact you could certainly call me. I mean this is just as exciting as putting meteorite in in one of these watches. So again, it's not a real it's not a new watch, so to speak. It's just it's just kind of a new dial in there. But as you know, dials can more than any other watch in a Daytona, a dial can make or break the entire thing. Uh so to get all these new dials, including the meteorite, is it's just a fun thing. I I really like the white gold meteorite. Uh I think that's that's a neat Aaron Powell And Stephen, that that |
| Jack Forster | uh the white gold guy um on the Oyster Flex bracelet, that was kind of the one that you were drawn to when we were looking at them earlier, wasn |
| Stephen Pulvirent | 't it? Yeah, I just think that the the black 'cause it this one has a serachrome bezel, the others have the matching gold bezels. Right. Uh and the the black rubber strap, the black bezel, the black subregisters, I think you get kind of like just the right amount of meteorite and you get that contrast because the meteorite is this like really bright metallic silver with all these lines and patterns in it. Uh and it's nice that you've got something to kind of ground it. Uh I think I think it really just it pops and it's it's a really striking striking watch |
| Jack Forster | . Oh I was just gonna say I kind of geek out as a um you know as a science fan on meteorite dials just because those crystal patterns literally take millions of years to form. You know the, parent the parent body from which the asteroid comes breaks up, and you have this molten hot mass of iron and nickel that takes millions of years to cool, and that's why the crystals get so big and produce those patterns, you know, which are called Widmensstadten patterns, which is like the single most fun word to say in the entire history of watchmaking. And um and they're it's impossible to reproduce those patterns in the laboratory and to have something that's you know sort of that obviously ancient, that much um you know a feature of the interaction between heavenly bodies, impossible to reproduce in the laboratory. It's just I think they're kind of cool |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, I totally agree. Uh all right. There's one last thing I want to talk about with Rolex before we move on to Tudor. Uh and that is some new DateJust36 dials. You know, just last year we got those bright kind of like mock stella dials, uh, and they seem to be pretty hot. They are tough to find. Uh you can see a bajillion pictures of them on Instagram. Um but now we're getting two new dial patterns. Um one that Rolex is calling a fluted pattern, um kind of inspired by the the bezel on the classic date just. And the other one is uh called a palm pattern. And it's exactly what it sounds like. It is like, you know, in its most basic iteration, it's a green dial with a bunch of green leaves on it. Um but I think that the way I just described it kind of under undersells it. I think they they turned out to be pretty cool. And I don't know. This is just like it's it's interesting to see Rolex being fun like this. What are you saying Rolex isn't fun, Steven? Yeah, I mean I I I I implied that and I'm already worried that I'm gonna be getting like phone calls from Geneva before this even publishes, but uh Yeah, that they they they they can hear us right now, by the way. For |
| Jack Forster | sure. Absolutely. State state statement from Rolex, we are fun. Here are the reasons we are fun. Here is a twelve here's a twelve page PowerPoint with bullets all over the place on exactly why Rolex is fun, how it's fun, and how much fun that you can have with Rolex. I mean Jack, you |
| Stephen Pulvirent | just you just did the two tone the two tone palm date just is that basically |
| Jack Forster | . You know, the uh I actually love the fluted dial. It looks like stacked gold bars, Swiss gold, I'm sure. Um but I think they're really, really neat looking. And I feel like I don't know. I mean you guys have been looking at Rolex watches for at least as long as I have. Do you I mean it feels like they're having an awful lot of fun with dials lately. You might say they've like a lot of people |
| Ben Clymer | . It's like the entire industry is based in like you know, like 10 square miles. Uh and like they all go to the same restaurants, and in fact, that is reality, of course. But it's like, you know, the same way that like you know AP did a really good job, you know, over the past five years of just like doing royal oaks in every single dial color and making it basically like you know like rich guy you know bracelets. Um you know, Rolex is kind of doing the same thing here, and just like like it doesn't have to be so serious. Like you can have some fun with dials and like these are these are as we all know, like there are no doctors prescribing us to buy watches, as I've said a thousand times, like these are fashion accessories, these are fun. And so like, you know, there will be people out there that will want to collect every single dial variation of the oyster perpetual or of the date just or whatever. And it just allows it gives Rolex the bandwidth to sell multiple products to the same consumers. Uh and it it is more fun. Like these are fashion accessories. And you know, I could totally see a man or a woman in LA or New York or wherever wearing all of these and changing them out with their out A |
| Jack Forster | aron Powell You know, one of the things that fasc that always has fascinated me about Rolex is just how much goes on technically, you know, behind the scenes with the with the fabrication of uh well I mean everything they make. Um certainly some of the best bracelets in the business, you know, with those little ceramic inserts and the precious metal bracelets to keep them from, you know, from stretching. That's uh it's a wonderful thing. And um the part of the fabrication process for the dial involves using uh lasers firing at in bursts of one quadrillionth of a second, I think that's what one femtisecond is, uh, in order to remove material incredibly precisely, like much more so that this is like something that you don't find outside of like national laboratories researching how to improve atomic clocks. I mean it's crazy. Yeah |
| Ben Clymer | . Yeah. No, I I mean that that's the thing that that I remember kind of learning when I went to their factory many years ago. It's like no no matter how impressive you think Rolex is as as a watchmaker, they are that much more impressive as as as just a manufacturer of goods. They go so far beyond what most other folks do in this industry and so far beyond what they need to do. And I think, you know, look, I mean, you know, any one of us could open up a Rolex store on the corner of of whatever street we happen to be on right now and make a lot of money because like all you need is a Rolex sign and people will show up and hand you their credit cards. Um and they they actually don't take advantage of that. And I think that that that is definitely admirable and they really do put so much work into the development of this product. And so in many ways it is kind of nice to see them having a little bit of fun and not taking themselves that seriously as they as they often do. Let's tattooter. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | I I don't I don't think we need to set this up too much. Let's talk Tudor. Uh we got two new Black Bay fift fifty eights today, both in precious metals, which is like it's so weird. |
| Ben Clymer | Yeah, that's the weirdest thing I've ever seen come out of the Rolex family. It is a sterling silver case. Like with a sapphire case. What did they do it, you know? With a sapphire case back. Like that first of all, I think it's a wonderful looking watch. I mean, it's it's right up Step'shen alley, it's right up my alley for sure. Uh these are these are beautiful. I a sapphire case pack on kind of like an unfinished movement and a silver case. The whole thing makes truly zero sense. And I mean like zero with a capital Z, but I love it. And it's just like these are the type of things that like you you you kind of want to believe that like Rolex is thinking about doing for themselves, but they're like, oh we could just never do that. And so they give it to Tutor. Uh I I love I love both this and the solid gold watch a lot. And you know, again, am I gonna spend eighteen grand on a solid gold black bay with an open case pack? Probably not for me, but I get it. You said probably and I and I appreciate that. Definitely. You said probably not. Not definitely not.. There's there's a chance Next ne |
| Jack Forster | xt call, I'm gonna be wearing a solid gold black bay for sure. You know, I find the display back almost more weird than the choice of silver as a case metal. I mean you know as you say, that's like that's an industrial movement. It's not finished. I mean it's it's it's like having a it's like having an opening in your chest with a window pane in it that lets you see your pacemaker. Like it's interesting. It's just it's sort of cool that it's there, but it's not like aesthetically pleasurable |
| Ben Clymer | . I I I agree. I mean I I think that is that is really quite odd. I'm trying to think were there other tutors recently that have ever had Only the North flag. I looked earlier. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | North flag. And that was that was the first one with the in-house movement. Right.s the thing I.' And like I I would assume and I I mean you guys correct me if you disagree, but like I would assume the reason that this and the new 58 and presumably future tutor dive watches uh have and will have uh sapphire case backs is that like for new watch consumers or recently converted enthusiasts who like think that's a thing you're supposed to ask for, who like don't understand that sometimes having a closed case back might actually be better. Uh this is to kind of like maybe get those people on board or get them excited about mechanical watches. I don't know |
| Ben Clymer | . It's got it's gotta be just that. I mean what else could they be what else could they be looking to to do with this? I mean the the one thing that I find interesting and again I am not your average use case at all is that I actually love Rolexes and Tutors because of the closed case back you have a perfect canvas to engrave and almost no other sports watch gives you that canvas, right? I mean you have a clear blank case back that it's just like it's just asking to be engraved. Uh and and again, the Speedmaster doesn't have that, you know, all the Omegas don't have it. I mean, very few other watches have that. Uh and and I think it's it's kind of a shame from my perspective, which again it's a use case one, uh that that you wouldn't be able to engrave these watches. Um but I I think the fact that they did this silver case again, that's the strangest thing of the day, no question about it. The the solid gold thing I get, I wish both these were on bracelets because I mean such a such a big part of the charm of Rolex is in fact their bracelet, I find. Um but yeah, I mean just super cool, super weird decisions from from from Tudor here, but I love it. Sterling silver bracelet |
| Jack Forster | would be awesome. Aren't you guys kind of curious what they did to uh to uh chemically stabilize the sterling silver though? I mean they m they must have done something to the ally, because we all know what happens to silver when you leave it sitting in your in your uh in your drawer for a couple of years |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . It just oxidizes. Yeah. I've I've already asked and I've already been told uh we're we're not going to get too much information about that. Um I actually thought it was kind of funny during the the like faux press conference they did this morning or the press announcement was a a like video presentation, a pre-recorded video thing. Uh and they were like, yeah, so we're not gonna tell you what's in the alloy, but it has some of this and some of this. And when they said this, like little puffs of like metal popped up on screen. It's like, okay, like cool. They're they're just like fully rubbing it in our faces that like they're just not gonna tell us and they're gonna make us guess, which again, I kind of respect, you know. Like I'm annoyed, but I kind of respect it. Uh I mean, Ben, you you touched on the fact that like if we if we switch over to the gold watch for a minute here, like it's a yellow gold sapphire case back tutor dive watch and it's sixteen thousand eight hundred dollars. Uh do we think there's a market for seventeen thousand dollar tutor dive watches |
| Ben Clymer | Look, I mean there's an eighteen thousand dollar nomos. You know what I mean? That's true. I don't know how how well it does, but it it exists. And and my my guess is uh again, and I think you know, as as we said on the site, like that this is not a you know, this is not going to sell like a Black Bay or a Black Bay 58 at all. And they know that. But I uh it just seems like they kind of want to have some fun with with things and and maybe bring the tutor market, uh the tutor consumer up a little bit. Um, it looks great. Again, I wish we were on a bracelet. I think this on a bracelet with that dial would be killer. Um, but yeah, I f we'll see. I mean, I'll be very curious to see how many of these I see out in you know in the real world. I see a lot of black bays on black bay fifty eights and I have over the years. Um even the new blue one. Um this I I'll be really curious to see how many I see out there for sure. I I think it's cool. Again, I wish we were on a bracelet and if you're gonna spend seventeen grand W Well |
| Jack Forster | and that raises an interesting question, Ben, which is what do you think people are cross shop are going to be cross shopping this with? A six sixteen thousand dollar solid gold tutor. I'm struggling to think of anything that you know occurs to me immediately as a direct competitor |
| Ben Clymer | ? I I think it really is the guys and gals that that want a solid gold submariner at probably what thirty four thirty five thousand and just don't have it or don't want to spend it. Um and in some ways like a again, you know, I I am such a a weirdo in the watch world, but like I would probably be more excited to see this on somebody's wrist than a solid gold sub just because I see a solid gold sub all the time. And this is this is just an odd kind of kind of weird little new product. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | The other big release from Tutor wasn't a dive watch though. We got more Black Bays, but this time the Black Bay Chrono. Uh and again, in I mean, I feel like we we just are are kind of a broken record here, but like in a very typical Rolex Tutor fashion. Um, yes, there's new dials and it looks new, but like a lot of the changes are under the hood. Um the case is slimmer, they changed how the movement is mounted in the case, like lots of really little things. Um but the headline here is that they're panda dial black bezel steel chronographs on bracelets, which puts them aesthetically pretty in line with the almost impossible to get Daytonas.aron Powell Yeah, you you you nailed it. I mean |
| Ben Clymer | , beyond that, I mean be beyond the obvious, you know, this being the little brother to the Daytona, like not only all this that it comes on steel and looks like a Daytona, like it comes on a bund strap. And the the most famous person to ever wear a boon strap was Paul Newman. Right. So it I mean, they are clearly referencing the Paul Newman kind of component here. Um and again, I'm I'm not mad about it at all. I think these of of all the new releases I'm kind of most excited to see in the metal because I I obviously love chronographs, I love Tutor. If they were able to thin this down as much as I hope they they were, I think this could be a really, really compelling watch. And again, the the price is $4,900 on a strap, $52.25 on a bracelet, that is now you know over a thousand dollars less than the speedmaster professional, which you know I think we all agree is kind of like the benchmark for for professional sports watch uh chronographs. Uh I mean that that's a meaningful amount of money if you're saving up your last dime to buy this thing for sure. So I think I think this is gonna be a really strong product if it is as thin and as kind of spelt as as we hope |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Cool. Well I think this is probably a pretty good first pass. We're gonna have lots more analysis coming from various team members, the three of us and and others over the coming days. But uh I guess to just wrap up real quick, I mean, uh if if you guys had to sum up uh what you think we kind of learn about Rolex from these releases or what this year kind of means to Rolex. Uh what would what would kind of your your quick takeaway be |
| Ben Clymer | ? I think for for me it it this is this is what we should all expect from Rolex moving forward. I I think, you know, again the these you know, the Instagram hype which again is is so kind of rabid in in the watch world, like that stuff is never gonna happen. You know, the they're they're never gonna come out with something that you expect. They're not gonna do an eighty one, sixty one, or six zero, six two or Paul Newman Daytona, at least anytime soon. Um and you know probably just because I said that they'll now do it next year or they'll drop it next week or something like that. But I think this is like this is what Rolex is now. Like don't expect them to rewrite any you know historical kind of history books here for their models. Like they've got an amazing thing going. They've got the best thing going of not only any watch brand, but almost any luxury brand in the world where like they can sell just about anything they make anytime they want to whoever you know comes into their store. So why kind of mess with success? So again, I think you know we're probably going to see more interesting, colorful dials, uh, more precious metal |
| Jack Forster | I feel like um there's somebody in high up in the Hans Wilsdorf Foundation who's gonna hear you who is gonna hear you say they're never going to do a Paul Newman Daytona and he's he's gonna say hold my schnaps. Yeah. That's exactly |
| Stephen Pulvirent | right. And I would love that to be the case truly awesome. Well thank you guys both for joining uh i know you've got other other stuff to do uh we're still kind of in the throes of watches and wonders and uh yeah we'll have more soon |