Magician Dan White Returns¶
Published on Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:00:00 +0000
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Synopsis¶
In this episode of Hodinkee Radio, host Stephen Pulvirent welcomes magician Dan White back to the show to discuss how he transformed his highly interactive, in-person magic performances into a successful Zoom-based experience during the pandemic. Dan explains the monumental challenge of adapting an art form that relies on close physical interaction and carefully crafted atmospheres to a virtual platform where audiences are scattered in their own homes.
Dan describes the creative process of developing "The Magician Online," which took six months of conceptualization. He had to abandon nearly all traditional magic techniques and tools developed over 500-600 years of magical history, as none were designed for virtual performance. The key insight was making magic happen in the audience's own hands using physical objects sent in advance, turning the limitations of Zoom into advantages by creating mystery and maintaining attention through tangible interaction. Dan also discusses the difficulty of performing without live audience feedback and the existential questions this forced reinvention raised about his career and the nature of magic itself.
Throughout the conversation, Dan performs several incredible effects for Stephen, including card tricks and mentalism that work seamlessly over video. They also discuss watches, collecting during the pandemic, and the broader lessons learned from this transformative year. Dan reflects on not taking anything for granted and the confidence gained from successfully reinventing himself and his craft from zero. Stephen enthusiastically endorses Dan's virtual show as one of the most joyful experiences he's had during quarantine, emphasizing how Dan has created genuine delight and wonder through a medium most associate with work calls.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Dan White | There's a treasure trove of information about magic spanning, you know, 500, 600 years, right? No one for those 500, 600 years has written a book about doing magic virtually. Now all the tools that you've been trained to use as a magician since the moment you pick up a deck of cards when you're 10 years old, gone. Everybody who was in this had to essentially pioneer a completely new way of doing this art form of magic that exist has |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Hey everybody, I'm your host, Stephen Polveran, and this is This week we've got a fan favorite joining us in a virtual studio, magician Dan White. You might remember Dan from episode 38 of Hodinky Radio, or his episode of Talking Watches with Jack, or from his show at the Nomad Hotel in New York City, or his countless appearances on the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. Like I said, he's a fan favorite and he's really part of the Hodinky family at this point. When I heard that Dan was doing a Zoom-based magic show since he hasn't been able to perform in person, I was extremely curious and immediately had to get tickets. I can honestly say it might be the most fun experience I've had since quarantine started almost a year ago, and I think it's a must-se fore literally anyone listening to this. It had me sitting on my couch at home, Manhattan in hand, with a big dumb smile on my face for a solid 90 minutes. That's pretty tough to beat these days. On today's show, Dan and I talk about what it was like for a highly interactive performer to reimagine his craft for a world of social distancing, what he's learned about magic in the process, and what his next show might look like after the world starts to open up again. We also talk about watches and how we've been embracing our hobbies this year, and of course, Dan does a few incredible effects for me on air. Please excuse all of my giggling. I really love magic. Now, if you're listening to this on your podcast player of choice, please go down into the show notes and click the video link to see Dan perform these effects. They're plenty of fun on audio, but you're really missing out if you don't see them too. Alright, without further ado, let's do this. Hey Dan, good to see you. Hey, how's it going? Appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much for coming on, man. Uh I would say it's been a while, but I mean I guess I technically saw you like three days ago, four days ago. Right. Uh at your show on Zoom. But uh it's been a while since we've actually like had a conversation. In person, yeah, in a full conversation for sure. How uh how have you been how have you been doing? I mean I say like I'm so in the habit of saying like these last few months, but I guess it's like how's your year been at this point? |
| Dan White | How's your year been? It's been different. Uh absolutely been different. You know, I I think as a uh a live performer, uh it's been my world's completely different than it used to be since the last time we actually saw in person. Um like in every way possible. It's completely upside down. But you know, making the most of it and I'm actually having fun and really kind of happy, you know, where I am personally and mentally. So I I I can't complain. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | That's good. Good to hear that. Um yeah, I mean you touched on the fact that like you're a live performer. So like when when everything started to get like kinda out of whack last like January, February, and then by March, uh you know we started to have to to quarantine and New York kind of locked down. Um like what what was going through your head? Like your your whole world, as you said, just goes upside down immediately |
| Dan White | . Yeah, I mean it w immediately when it first happened, it was like, oh no, we're gonna have to cancel a couple of shows. This is gonna stink. Right. So I was like I was like, okay, well No, actually, you know what to be completely honest. The first thought was, oh no, m our sh my the show that I do, which you've seen the live show, uh is y there's a lot of interaction and touching. I'm touching people. People are touching things, people are really close together. So the first thought was, okay, we need to make the show a little bit more like less uh kind of close up. I mean there's one trick right like almost kiss somebody in in the the the old show. So I was like all right we're gonna cut that trick uh and we're gonna do some other things and maybe we'll distance people a little bit. And we did like this whole rehearsal for like two, three days of like, okay, how to make this show a little less uh up in your face. Um and then things were looking like, okay, we can't even do the show for a couple weeks, and I was like, oh man, I gotta take a couple weeks off, this is gonna stink. Um and then oh maybe a month, and then it just I kept snowballing and uh you know, until until it got to the point of like, okay, we haven't done this show in two months. You know, I might not do this show for a while. Up to the point where I was like, okay, now I need to transcribe the whole show. So I had to write out the whole show. Because I I the show that I did in New York wasn't scripted at all. It basically evolved from the way I talk normally and it became the script just from because I I think magic works really well when it feels natural. So we I scripted it naturally so afterwards I had the script memorized that was just essentially me talking normally. But then I had to uh transcribe that whole thing 'cause I was worried that I was gonna forget it. And I think I almost pretty much have forgot uh what I used to say uh or like my whole script for the last show. So once I start up again it's gonna be a big deal to to memorize it uh again |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah. Yeah I mean the close up nature of your show is something that, you know, when I saw it last last year and actually I'm trying to think, I guess I saw the show it would have been like I guess it would have been like January. It would have been like not that long before things closed up. Ye |
| Dan White | ah, you know what it was. I remember you sent me a a beautiful book and uh it during at the beginning of the quarantine it was like nice to have that book like right on my coffee table. It was like it was right there. So you're right. I think it probably wasn't that that long ago. Actually real quick, let me cut you off. Yeah, I'm gonna show you a trick real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm never gonna complain about that. Do you wanna see a w uh uh a car trick or a watch trick |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ? Uh let's let's do a watch trick, I guess. Like why not? We're on we're on this show. Like let's let's go for it. Alright, we'll do a card trick. Uh watch |
| Dan White | the card. Just watch. Just watch. Here's the thing. Watch. You ready? Okay. I take the card. Just watch. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Oh That's a hell of a start to the episode. I mean I guess for the people listening in audio, uh go check out the video clip. Like we'll link it in the show notes, but uh you definitely you definitely want to see this. I would even say like pause the episode and go watch it. Yeah, so you I mean you you transitioned everything to Zoom and like where where did that idea come from? Like at what point were you like, okay, I can't perform this in person, but like may maybe there's a way around |
| Dan White | this well it it took a while. So um after everything sort of went crazy and we had to to stop doing the show. Um I started doing a few things online just for people one on one. And it was actually uh the tonight show with Jimmy Fallon that uh asked me to be on uh virtually, so I I kind of created a routine for for that show. And it it was at that point that I was like, okay, well maybe I can do uh magic for uh more people than just one person. But it still definitely wasn't like okay, let's do a uh full show. Um I had gone with my wife up to to out to the country for uh a couple weeks right after everything sort of started but died down a little bit and it was there that uh I kind of came up with this idea of doing a thing virtually and sending people objects and things like that. And it was around the same time that other magicians had started doing the same thing, and I think we as a collective group realize that magic's actually possible over Zoom. Um and I think more so than any other art form, really live art form, and because because it's so interactive, you know, you're still doing things uh with a magician. You're you're still um you know taking part in the magic and it there's a uh uh a surprise factor that doesn't necessarily happen like if you were just watching Netflix or something, right? If you could you could see a a a a singer or a comedian on Netflix and watch it at home without it being live. There's no need for it to be live uh on your screen. Whereas with magic it actually enhances the fact that you're taking part in it because you're 50% of the equation. I'm asking you to do things and you're doing things in your own hand. And if you weren't doing those things it wouldn't be as fun uh if you were just watching it. So uh strangely it it all sort of kind of made sense and it it came together. Um it was a lot more process after that, but that was sort of the initial uh you know idea |
| Stephen Pulvirent | for it. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that that you know, Gray Gray also attended the show last weekend, and one of the things he and I were talking about both immediately after and like, you know, basically nonstop since is the fact that we'd both seen the live show, and we kind of expected the Zoom show to be like a an adapted version, but like kind of the same idea. And I was really blown away by how it's a completely different experience. Like the the styles of tricks, the sorts of illusions you're doing, like the way the show is structured, the types of things you're doing are like they feel natively geared to the platform you're doing them on. And I I wonder how you had to change thinking about your art form and thinking about how you present and how you interact with people and like what sorts of things you what sorts of things work and what sorts of things don't work like from the ground up as you built this new show |
| Dan White | . Yeah well thank first of all thank you for noticing that. Um you know some those are those little touches that I'm not sure if everybody picks up on. Um, but yeah, I mean from the beginning of this whole thing be when I s first started conceptualizing the show, and the show took about uh six months just to fully realize mentally, even before we started performing it. Um the the the hard part really was how how to make a show that feels fresh uh and new on this new platform. And at the beginning I I really was very adamant that I didn't want to just do a virtual version of my stage show. Um because A, there's gonna be people who've seen the the live show and it's not gonna, I guess, be that interestinging if they're just see the same show again. Uh but secondly is because not all of the things that I did in the stage show would even really have that much impact uh over Zoom because of the fact that uh like I said before, you'd be just watching it versus actually experiencing it. So when I sort of looked at this whole thing from a a a sort of a a a long view scope of of what I wanted to do, the most important thing was that things happen in your hands? That was the most important thing. Uh, and that the the actual being on Zoom was actually an enhancement rather than a uh thing that affected the magic negatively. And there are a lot of enhancements for for being on Zoom because you being right where you are now, you have a comfort level because you are in your house. I can't see half of what is behind you, half the other room, right? So that's an impossible situation for me to be in and it makes it more difficult for me, but because it's more difficult for me, it's more impossible for you. Uh so it's it's taking advantage of the feeling that you have of that comfort um was was a big sort of thing for me. The hardest part really though was I wanted to create a mood because that was one of my favorite things about the work that I put into the the live show is that you know there's sort of a mood from walking into the hotel um and uh you know seeing the different people and the the decorations and the whole thing walking up the stairs that there is a mood created. My biggest worry is that if you're gonna be in your house on your couch there's no mood you control the mood I have no control over that um so we we do a number of things with the what we send you um how the order in which you take things out the music that we use.' Its still something that uh I haven't quite figured out. One of my dream things that I was like in my notebook was the beginning is like I wish I could figure out a way to connect to people's like smart lights, right? So that I could set their lighting in their own house, right? Because it that's you know you take for granted going to a show but the the the first three seconds of going to a show where the light shut off boom you're in a mood you're com you're separated from the world and that's the the goal of movies and theaters like to take you out of it. So realizing that I couldn't do that was one of the the harder harder things for sure |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah I think the the whole I mean the moment that your your you know your team when we when we invited you to come on and and have this chat and then Gray and I decided we were gonna go to to your show first, you know, was they were like, oh we have something to send you. And I was like, wait, there's like there's a box coming? Like what's what's going on here? Um but it that that element A of just like the anticipation that creates, like you get you get a package. Like you're getting like a gift basically, you know, which is is and the fact that you know part of the show was sitting in my apartment for three days before the show. You know, so it's like there's there's a reveal that is already in there and like I don't know what it is. I don't know what it's going to be. I don't know how excited I'm going to be about it. But like it's there. And that kind of anticipation I actually thought was really interesting to me. Uh, and not something that I think pre-pandemic I could have imagined. Like I would never have imagined a show to work like that. And I think it does set that tone and that mood from the beginning that like you're being taken care of, you're in, you know, Dan's world here, and and there's kind of like surprises waiting for you and you just have to wait and see how they kind of unfold in your in your living room |
| Dan White | . Yeah, I mean so I've worked a lot with uh Will Gadara, who who um the is the restaurateur from uh Love and Masson Park in the Nomad, uh and talking to him before the the this even doing the show, uh some of his advice was you know, yeah, extending the experience. Um and I think that's the good advice for for any sort of person who's creating a an experiential thing, whether it be restaurants, movies, anything, uh figuring out how to extend the experience as long as possible. Um and sending the box early like that is one of those uh extending circumstances that y I'm you're kind of in my world, I'm in your head two weeks before you know the the the show even starts. And I think that's kind of a a a a really kind of interesting thing. And uh I'm glad you felt that because that that was the point. You know |
| Stephen Pulvirent | good. It's it's nice when it works that way, right? Uh yeah, I mean I think a related point to that is is and you you touched on it a little bit, but it's it's not just creating mood, it's also like people's attention at home is is tough, you know? Like when you come to the nomad and you're sitting at a cocktail table with somebody and you're all dressed up and there's like the lights go down. Like I'm sure people do it, but like most people are not gonna like pull out their phone and check their email. Most people aren't like listening to something with one AirPod in, you know? Uh I wonder if you've have you had you know, either had any issues or did you have to like figure out workarounds to make sure that, you know, in the middle of the show you don't cut to somebody uh to you know have them participate and they're like, you know, 200 words deep in responding to an email? |
| Dan White | No, absolutely. Distractions are are a real thing. But actually before I answer that question, let's uh I wanna I wanna throw out just the idea of a distraction really quick. Real quick, I just want you to think of any word, right? You know make it kind of a silly word, not just like the or anyone you want. Just the first thing that comes to your head. Not even a big one. A silly word? Yeah. Okay. Say it |
| Stephen Pulvirent | out loud. Uh hippo? Hippo. Hippo. Like uh like the animal, right? Like the animal, yeah. I don't know why that popped into my head, but when you said silly word, hip hippo |
| Dan White | . That's perfect. So here's the thing. You were talking about like interruptions, distractions. At some point from this moment until the end of the interview, I just want you to interrupt me and say the word hippo whenever you feel like it. But it's important that you don't tell me when you're gonna do it. Don't make it like uh I'm gonna say it right now. Just say the word. Okay. Sound good? Okay. That sounds good. That's your word. All right. I love where this is going. I'm very happy about this. The question was, right, w how do you deal with distractions and things like that from people uh watching? And it absolutely happens. There's totally times where I can see somebody looking at their phone or doing doing something else um and there's no way I can really control that. Like it's just impossible. So instead about distracting them with my things. And that's why those physical tangible objects are really important. Because you want to know, okay, here's another envelope. Okay, that's another thing. In the things that I send you, none of the things are revealed to you as soon as you open the box, right? Is multiple layers to each thing. So you open the box, everything is wrapped in its essentially another box or another piece of packaging. Because mystery in itself, just the idea of mystery, just like we're doing right now, where I'm telling you to say the word at some point, it keeps you connected, it keeps you focused because you want to know why why did I even ask you to do that? Why is there this thing in this envelope? What's inside this envelope? If I had just let everything just sort of hang out in the box right there, I think a lot more people would be a lot more distracted because they know exactly what it is. Even if the thing that they're opening doesn't do anything, just the mystery of it in itself is inherently a point of attention and I think it always will be. You know, if I told you behind this door there is uh a a dollar bill, right? That's cool, you'll you might open the door, you might not. Now I need a dollar, I'll go grab it. But if I say behind that doll that door is something that I don't want you to know about completely changes the whole thought process of what's that what that door is. Um and it really zeroes in people's attention 'cause they it Yeah. No, that totally makes sense. Um But we've had some crazy things happen. I mean you know we'll just you sometimes you just see in the background, you know, people doing things not realizing their cameras at a certain angle and you know |
| Stephen Pulvirent | I'm I am sure you've seen some things. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, I mean in addition to this, like you've touched on the ideas of like mood and mystery, but one of the other things that I think, you know, really stood out to me about the the show with the nomad, and I think came through really well in in the online show is the energy. Uh, and you mentioned it a little bit that like your script is very natural, like your pattern is very conversational and real, and like it doesn't feel like I'm watching some like old timey magician in like a top hat with a monocle on. Like this is this is like a person who like if I met on the street or at a bar or whatever, like you could have a real conversation with. And I would imagine that's also really hard to translate because at least at the nomad, like you can control the mood so you can kind of control the energy. Whereas like here you're you're bringing what you're bringing, but like you have everything from, you know, on the show we attended, like you had everything from, you know, uh groups of four or six people all dressed up, like they set the mood, they had candles lit, like they were really in it, uh with like the show up on their TV and the whole thing, all the way to like, you know, you had some, you know, couples who were like in their sweatpants with all their lights on on their like giant over stuffed sofa. And it's like I would imagine hard for you to to to maintain that kind of like momentum when it's when it's like that, no? It's it's absolutely true. Man, first |
| Dan White | of all, I gotta say you are just asking the best questions. Like you've you totally watched the show and you're like picked up on all of the things. I first I just I appreciate that. Uh 'cause these are all like those little things I've been like uh so difficult to try to figure out for so many months. And so to to be at the place where someone can even just recognize it from even just watching for a couple hours really great so thank you for that um but so just to answer your question yeah everybody's in a different sort of mood a different different sort of space and keeping that energy is super important but the hardest part for me is when I first so so I first started doing these shows and I was in uh not a much different setup than this it was just it was like messy in the background you know I had to like put a white wall and at the at that very beginning, like we're talking, you know, maybe May of me doing shows for people online, it immediately became so apparent how much different the energy is on my side because I can't hear people react right essentially when you when you do when you do uh zoom if it's more than two or three people maybe more than five people you gotta mute it else it becomes like a cacophony of sound you're hearing echoes and blah blah blah blah blah blah and craziness. Um, so so at the very beginning, I would do something, I'd be like, all right, boom, check it out, and then silence, right? So I'm just talking to myself in a room, having to maintain the energy, uh uh understanding in b like knowing that people are reacting, but not being able to hear it, see it, feel it, or anything. So it's like this big kind of bubble for the first few months of like, okay, I have no idea if people are liking this. It feels like uh a comedian on stage telling a joke and no laughter. Like that it's just it's like that nightmare fuel of what that feels like. And that's what Zoom was for so long. And it still is like that, but I've been able to just like get used to it. Like I just I know what it feels like. I know what it sees like. Uh and I've got a thing where I can like unmute some people, right? So you can hear like so unmute like five or six. After five or six, seven people, it it becomes like too loud, but like I I constantly unmute people during the show. Like we if've got I've got a button here that just like I'm use half of the group, you know? Um so that has helped, but it took a while to even figure that out. Uh and that that helps a little bit, uh, but it still feels like I'm just doing basically talking to myself for two hours. So I've had to get like to the point where I'm like, all right, okay, I gotta let's let's bring this up. Because it's not like a Zoom conversation like we're having right now. It's not one on-on- oneone. It's for a whole group of people. And as more the more people you add, the less people are |
| Stephen Pulvirent | there. If that makes any sense. Yeah, totally. performing live is but it sounds it sounds like that might be the answer right |
| Dan White | yeah no like that that energy of being in a room full of people is a great energy and it's um there's no real like definition of it. It's not just the sound, it's not just uh the smells, it's not it's not sh it's the energy. And you you can't there's no way to replicate that. Um and that's definitely the the the thing I miss. And it it's like addictive and and it's it's a domino effect. If one person gets like hyped up in a room, everybody gets you know, it's just goes throughout the whole thing and it circulates. It's it is a it is a real energy and that is uh the biggest thing that I miss for sure. Ye |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ah. Well I wonder I mean like long term, right? Like hopefully, you know, people are starting to get vaccinated in a in a real way. I've started to get notes from from some older uh friends and and acquaintances saying that they're they're vaccinated and they're starting to try to get back to semi-normal life, I guess. Um as things transition, like what's do you have a long-term plan here? Is is this something that you plan on being a part of your repertoire kind of long term, or is this do you really view this as kind of like a a stopgap |
| Dan White | ? Yeah, so I'll tell you, just throughout the whole all the months that have passed through this whole thing, it's been a lot of like what is my career? What am I doing with my life? How is magic? You know, it's like it's been like a real existential thing. Well I just I'm gonna stop I |
| Stephen Pulvirent | 'm gonna stop you there uh and say like what are you doing with your life? Uh, like how is magic helping? Um, like, and I I mean this totally honestly, like, this was the most fun night I have had in my apartment since quarantine started. Like this, this was like a pure joy. Uh, my wife and I did it together. Uh, had an absolute blast, drank a few too many Manhattans during and after the show. Yeah. And like it was awesome. And like that sort of like delight and, especially getting that delight by logging onto a Zoom call on a Saturday night is like completely insane. And the fact that you've been able to do that, like I I'm just gonna cut you off there and say like the thing you're doing is re like genuinely important. And I don't mean that in a sort of like arch way. It it is it is a real like balm on |
| Dan White | all of this nonsense. I app I appreciate that a lot. Because a lot of work went into you know, making it feel that way. I wanted people to feel special on Zoom and I didn't want to f them to feel like they were just at another work call. Um so I again I'm I' |
| Stephen Pulvirent | m I'm glad I mean I have spreadsheets you could finish for me if you really want to. Like I've got I've got stuff for you to do, but |
| Dan White | I'm just glad it it it it felt fun and and refreshing good and um like exactly what what I wanted it to to feel like. But you know, all the months leading up to it, it was like what what's magic? What what what is what is a magician? What is a live performer? I'm so I'm sure so many other people are feeling those same sort of things. It's just like question mark after question mark. So you know, to your question of what's next, uh, I think that virtual magic shows are still going to be around for a while. Um, and I think that because of how well magic actually can work virtually, um uh I think there will be certain times where people would prefer to watch a magic show over Zoom than be in person. But I don't think it's going to uh th it's gonna be one or the other. I think both will exist uh concurrently and I think it's for me it'll be like another thing to add to the menu of of of things to see me do. You know, so like of on Tuesdays I'll do the Zoom show and on the weekend I'll do the the live show. Um because I i i if at the very beginning of this whole thing I said, okay, if the show isn't just as good or better than seeing something live, then it's just gonna disappear. You know? So the goal w always has been like I I want this to exist by itself and it be good, not just a this will s we we'll we'll settle for this. You know what I mean? |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. And and I guess, you know, and then we can move there's a couple other topics I want to talk about so we can move on a little bit, but um is there anything about magic as a as a discipline that you've learned from doing this? Like you've been doing this a while. What what kind of stuff did you learn about your own craft and art that you you didn't know before you were put in this position |
| Dan White | ? Well here's the thing about magic, right? Magic has so many books. Like if magic is one of the art forms that has the most books written about it of any other thing. Like it's crazy, and not very many people see them. They're all kind of in weird libraries, and it's like they're not easy to get. But there's a treasure trove of information about magic spanning, you know, 500, 600 years, right? No one for those 500, 600 years has written a book about doing magic virtually. Right? So So everybody who was in this had to uh ex essentially pioneer a completely new art form of uh or new new way of doing this art form of magic that ex has existed for thousands of years. Uh so it it's kind of nice to be at this precipice of who knows where it's going to go from here because I don't think the virtual space in magic i is is uh going away. Um so it made me look at magic completely differently because now all the tools that you've been trained to use as a magician since the moment you pick up a deck of cards when you're 10 years old, gone. Everything's gone. You don't, you know, you read if you pick up any magic, but okay, put this in the spectator's hand, do this, stand the spectator over here, stand in front of the stage over here. It's all based on human interaction because that's kind of like the best part about magic is those human interactions. So, not being able to do any of those things that you've learned has been like so eye-opening. Um, and it's made me really reconsider, as at least just for this virtual space, of what constitutes a strong bit of magic? What what is what makes your mouth you know open up and go wow you know like what what are those things and it's they're a lot different um but essentially the same uh as the original stuff. So the original like the the classic magic, the strongest things are the things that happen in your own hand, and that still is true here, but now I can't affect those things that are happening in your hand. Or it's much harder for me to affect those things. Um, so it's it's been a complete re-examination, and that's what the first six months of my quarantine were. We're just uh, you know, I would just walk around i in New York, I'd walk up and down uh twenty-eighth street and thirtieth street just around the corners over and over again, like well what what magic effects will work here? Uh and basically just had to throw out all of my old repertoire, all of the things that I was just so used to and like, okay, we gotta look at everything com completely differently and I would just walk and walk around, walk around in circles, uh until finally, you know, a a couple of things popped. Um but it wasn't even until I started doing them for people that I was like, okay, that that'll that'll work. And I've got I'm s I'm lucky because, you know, the show that I did at the hotel I had this whole team of people that I work with and it being able to have them like help me come up with these ideas uh as well and really examine this new new platform um was a godsend and it's nice to be even just jam with them. You know, some of them are in California, some are in Jersey, all over the place. So I'd I'd have to I'd we'd practice over Zoom and then everything just sort of fell together. But it's it's definitely magic is in a ne |
| Stephen Pulvirent | w new space, new world. That's awesome. Well we'll we'll plug this again at the end, but uh the magician online is the show. Uh there will be a very prominent link in the show notes, and uh I just want to say to anybody who's listening, like, go go buy tickets. Like, go do this thing. You're not, you're not gonna regret it. And like we don't do hard plugs that often uh on the show. Uh, but like I've already bought tickets for my parents. Uh we have friends who have a birthday coming up who are getting tickets and don't know it yet. Hopefully they don't hear this. Um but um like it's so much fun and so just purely joyful. Uh and like I can't think of anything better for February 2021 than a thing that just like I I had a big dumb smile on my face for an hour and a half nonstop. And like that's a good feeling right now. Um yeah. Awesome. Man, you're the best. Like, thank you. I appreciate that. I really do. Um. I did want to know uh what else you've been up to in quarantine. I feel like most people who are kind of like obsessive, hobby-interested people have like gone deep on something. And so besides, you know, this this is a ridiculous question, but like besides having to reimagine your entire career and art form for a contactless world. Ot thanher that, what have you been spending time on? What have you been into? What have you been obsessed with? What's been going on in your world? |
| Dan White | So yes, for the first six months, seven months, it was all thinking about reinventing magic, doing new magic. And um it was actually really nice because it made me remember the feeling of having magic as a hobby versus just completely as a job because it was you know, I had to r re examine everything and restudy a lot of things and and remap out things. So I when I was ten years old, that's what magic was for me. It was like learning new things, learning all these different techniques that I had nothing no idea about. And that was the first six months of this quarantine for me. Was looking at magic, but not only that, learning the technology that has to go into putting on a show. And there's a lot of things that I had to learn. You know, uh lighting and all the whole monitor setup and new programs and different you know hardware to make everything connect. So that it was it was like that was a whole hobby job, but I enjoyed it because it made me feel like a kid learning magic for the first time. A lot of stuff I didn't know and I love getting new information where it's like whoa that's like the coolest thing. But then after that is doing the show uh and to be honest with you, I I have a three year old daughter and that's been like when I'm not doing magic, that's you know, I'm just I'm spending time with her and my wife and uh I've I've been kind of living this simple hermit life, which I think I've always wanted. You know, which is anything from a person who performs with people for a living. No, uh but to be honest, a lot of the performers that I've met, like at least magicians, are kind of strangely shy and quiet. You know, even just big names. And it's like on their their non-stage side, it's it's it's much different. And I think that comes from at least from my own experience with that feeling is that when you're on stage, when you're performing, it's it's so much expressiveness and so much like uh energy needed to give you energy. Sharing this energy with you that when you're done with it, it's like drain, you're just drained, and you just want to like just gonna talk calmly and softly. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um totally. So Oh let, me remind you, I'm reminded this is my reminder about your word. So I was so |
| Stephen Pulvirent | I was I was debating jumping in there, but I'll we'll give it a little bit. Maybe I do. Yeah, who knows? Yeah. Um I did want to ask also about watches. Uh so in quarantine, uh a lot of people have kind of gone inward, and you know, the the this goes along with getting deep into hobbies, right? And people have, you know, we found a lot of folks we've had on the show have said that, you know, quarantine has actually been a great time for them to like really enjoy this hobby because it's something you can enjoy kind of at home, you know, virtually with friends and and really doing a lot of research and getting deep on it. And I wonder, is there anything watch related that that you've kind of discovered during quarantine? Whether it's new pieces you're interested in, something historical you didn't know like any any watch updates from you? Well thank |
| Dan White | I've been enjoying your book especially at the beginning uh of of quarantine that's been sort of the the the um like just a nice thing just to look through and see all these different watches and and read about them. Um but to be honest, the the my watch I guess collecting has definitely slowed down uh because of this. And I think it's for two reasons. The first being at the beginning of this, my career was kind of just disappearing, right? Like I could see it slipping away. So the you know, there's that monetary aspect of collecting watches, which I was like, you know what, I I I don't think I should be doing this right now. Uh I need to focus on figuring out a way to survive. I have no job anymore. So it was like that. Um but now that things are picking up, uh, I'm ready and looking to get a few new pieces. And now I've been talking to my friends, I've got a few dealer friends, and uh the you know, Instagram is such a great resource to be able to see new stuff, and especially like some of the older models and the the the the pre-on stuff. But now what I realized is after getting like reinvigorated into studying watches, I realized one of the biggest things for me when I decide to get a watch or even just figure out which watch I really like, one of the biggest things is trying a watch on. Like I can't make that decision without putting it on my wrist. I maybe some people can just from knowing, right? Yeah. Totally. I I think for me, especially because my I have really slender wrists, I'm a little bit taller than most people, I I I need to get the proportions right. Yeah. So I and I uh I like I haven't gone into a watch store um really since this whole thing started because uh you know uh so there's it's a hands-on sort of thing and I've been sort of hesitant to do it. So I've been looking at things that I would like, but I won't be able to make any really decision until I I I I actually try them on. I don't know. How's it been for you in in that in terms of that? Like has that been a thing, like trying watches on that you haven't ever worn before |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ? Yeah, I I'm trying to think if I've been in a watch store. You know what? I went into the Rolex boutique in New York, um, the midtown boutique, once for about 20 seconds, right after all the new watches came out, just to see if they had anything in stock so I could see it. Um Um 'cause I hadn't I hadn't even seen like press samples yet. And I happened to be down in that area, you know, dropping something off with a friend and popped in. Um very quickly, realized they didn't have anything and uh hit the hand sanitizer pump on my way out the door. Uh but uh yeah, I mean for the site, we've been shooting things. So I've, you know, until I came out to California, I had a pretty steady set of samples coming through the office in New York. Um so I got to see stuff, but it's it's definitely been weird. And you know, we've talked about it, including on this show, um, you know, my my colleagues and I have talked about how different it is trying to cover new products that you can't see. Um, it makes being a product journalist really hard. Um, and you end up relying a lot on gut. And like at this point, I know that like, you know, I end up asking Jack a lot of questions and John, like these guys have been doing it longer than me. And my intuition I feel like is pretty pretty well honed at this point, but like I'll see something be like I don't I don't have a good read on this, uh, and I can't tell anything from the renderings or whatever. Uh Jack, what do you think? You know, and usually he's got some kind of insight, but yeah, it's been, you know, just just like everybody else, figuring out new ways to do our jobs, new ways to keep audiences happy, new ways to to deliver what we need to deliver. And yeah, I mean I guess it kind of actually segues to another thing I wanted to talk about, which is is things that you've learned over the last year, and not just about magic, but kind of more broadly, like are there any lessons you've really taken away from the experiences of the last year? There's so much pessimism that I I wonder if there's anything sort of like optimistic, anything good that you feel like you're you're gonna be able to take out of this uh like in between time we're in now |
| Dan White | . Yeah, I mean I think the one of the biggest things I learned is not to take anything for granted. I mean, immediately after this whole thing, it was like, oh uh, you know, I can't believe everything that I had is like been taken away. Um, and so that was the first, like at the beginning, was like never take anything for granted. Realize that uh appreciate everything you've got. Really show that appreciation 'cause it's important because you who knows what could happen. But then after that it was it for me it was now. Dan before before you get too far into this, uh hippo. Oh, okay, great. All right. So let's see what time is it. What time is it right now? Uh I've got on my phone uh 129. Is that is that what you have on your phone? Uh yes, I'm three hours behind you, but yes, I have ten twenty-nine on my phone. So well okay, my my time is essentially one twenty-nine. And I didn't tell you to say the word hippo either. No, no, no not, not at all. That was completely a choice. I don't know if you realize, but this entire time um I've had a piece of paper behind me, right? A white piece of paper inside that picture frame. Right? Yes, right? You can play it back. That's been there the entire time. Hasn't moved. You could have said stop at any second, any minute in this whole thing, and you could have said any word at all. I'm gonna check this out. Is crazy? It says oh are you getting it? |
| Stephen Pulvirent | That is insane. Nice. Uh again, for anybody listening to just the audio, like please please go watch this video clip. We will have it. Please go watch it. Uh that is wild, Dan. I'm just glad you said hippo. I'm just glad you said hippo. I could have changed my mind halfway through. We would have had a problem. Absolutely. Oh man. I'm glad you stuck with it. That's incredible. Uh sorry sorry for interrupting your very thoughtful answer to the I'm glad you stopped me right at that moment |
| Dan White | . Um Um so yeah, things we've things we've learned. Things we've learned. So that yeah, the second thing is that uh for me being in the situation where uh I didn't know what was gonna happen. Now in retrospect, looking back on all the things that I've done personally, I've I think it's starting from zero and getting back to a place of rel relative um normalcy in my career um made me confident that no matter what gets thrown my way uh you can figure out how to how to manipulate yourself and and reinvent yourself. So I think it it's i i it's two parts of this whole year have been uh not taking anything for granted and being able to reinvent anything, any situation that you're in for anybody and being confident in that ability. I I I think a lot of people get sort of stuck in their heads thinking that I can it can only be this way, it can only be this way. Um but if you take everything, erase, bring everything back to zero. I know that myself, and I think everybody can figure out ways to to completely change their environment. And it's all kind of just a belief in yourself and um you know a desire for what that thing is. Amazing. I love that. It's confidence, really. It's uh I I didn't have any of it at the beginning and it all came back and it's it's amazing to that you can I think anybody if they if they really have a set path and a desire th they they can make it work. That's a |
| Stephen Pulvirent | wesome. Um well then I guess the last thing before we wrap up, I think you have you have one more effect for us, but uh before that, um I just want to ask, do we have is there anything new coming up in your world, anything other than the magician online that you wanna that you wanna plug or give people a kind of sneak peek at or teaser for |
| Dan White | ? Um really it's just it'll be for me the next new thing will be the live re reinvention of the live show. Um so that is something that I haven't figured out yet because I don't know what our world is gonna look like. You know, I'm very confident everything's gonna be back to normal pretty soon, hopefully by you know summer. Uh but I don't know what that new normal is. Um so as a magician, I'm gonna be figuring that out. So when when I've got new stuff, I will be coming to you for sure. Perfect. One question I had for you, I'm just curious about watches in general. What have you noticed as sort of like the trends or the the what's the general psyche of collectors? Is it how has that changed at all through this whole thing? You know, is it like uh um more different models are more popular than others or what's what's what's your read? Yeah I think uh |
| Stephen Pulvirent | if I had a a trend I would say it's that you know, the the stuff that has remained popular and become more popular um is the stuff that's accessible slash relatively accessible, like in the world we're talking about. So like pieces under five or six thousand dollars. Um you know really anything under a thousand dollars is going gangbusters, but um anything under like five, six thousand dollars and then the really high end uh is is popular um because the folks who are buying those pieces like if anything have made more money over the last year than they normally would so that's what I really that |
| Dan White | was surprised me a lot. It surprised me how I thought for sure that the watch market would kind of slow down through this whole thing. I mean where where where do people need to w wear watches to? I mean and how to make all these people have all this excess money. Um but it's the opposite. Like all of the the the the I I've been looking specifically at at precious metal stuff 'cause I I I have don't have anything in my collection uh any precious metals. And so all of those pieces have jumped up in value so much over the last few months, it's it's like it sort of shut me out. It's like those are the things that uh I thought for sure would be the ones that wouldn't be so popul |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ar. Um but yeah. I'll uh I'll admit I was kinda hoping prices on gold uh day dates and day chests would uh drop a little bit, but uh so so far, 'cause I was so far no lucky |
| Dan White | . I was waiting for like I I really I think the day date like a a vintage day date is like the best value. Yep. It's crazy. I wish I got it at the right right at the beginning |
| Stephen Pulvirent | . Yeah, uh that's the the classic thing with watches is always shit. I should have bought this six months, a year ago, five years ago, ten years ago. The the days when like, you know, royal royal oaks could be had for you know four figure price tags was not that long ago. Um and yeah sadly that's that's not the case for for us anymore. But o overall I've been pretty impressed with the watch community. And I mean the industry is a whole separate thing but, it's been nice seeing like collectors organize their own meetups and not always with the help of an authorized dealer or us or a red bar or something like they're just doing it on their own. They're just like a bunch of people who love watches and they, you know, somebody buys a Zoom subscription and sends out a link once a week and just hang out. And like it's nice to see we talk a lot about community and friendship and, like, you know, being a group that thinks of ourselves as as a group, like it's us together. And sometimes I think that's a little bit of uh kind of like pomp and circumstance. Um, but it was really nice to see over the last year that that's that's true. And a lot of people really do think of this as a social thing. Uh and it's been nice to see people find workarounds and find community in all of this craziness through through watches. Nice. All Al right.right, so you want to see one more thing? Yeah, take it take us home with uh with something funnier |
| Dan White | . Alright, uh I asked you to bring a deck of cards. Do you have a deck of cards? I do. I have the cards from the show the other night. Oh, perfect. But those those I haven't tampered with them or anything, just like 'cause I mean that's a normal deck of cards. You've obviously seen in the show is all completely normal. Yeah, they're a tot |
| Stephen Pulvirent | ally as as far as I can tell, they are a totally normal deck of cards. I shuffled them a couple times during the show. I've shuffled them since. That should be everything should be normal. Great. I want you to take the deck. I want you to turn it face down and hold it in your hand. Okay, let's angle. I'll angle my camera down a little here. Oh that's perfect. Gre |
| Dan White | at. And uh do you have your phone near you too? I do. Great. Can you go to a website for me? Absolutely. All right. It's called danwhiteposter.com. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Dan White poster. That's a hell of a URL, by the way. It' |
| Dan White | s a good one. It's exactly what's at that website is the exact uh thing that I want you to see because it it''ss the exact my poster, right? Yeah. See my poster here? But it's also on my wall, right? Oh yeah, it's right behind you. Same same same poster. But I I just wanted you to get a clearer look at it. Right? I want you to take that uh that your phone. I want you to look the in in that picture is a picture of me, right? Just staring at you, right? It's an old picture for my show. It's sort of based on an old broadside uh of of posters that magicians would have back in like the turn of the century, right? Okay. But right in the center of it is my face. I want you to take a good look into my eyes in that picture. Just sort of look into my eyes. Okay. Go ahead and put the phone down. Okay. That that picture is staring at you right now. And when you look right here at the camera, I'm staring at you right now. Here's what I want you to do: I want you to cut uh like a few cards off the top of the deck, like less than 20 cards off the top. Okay. I got a couple cards here. Great. I want you to take through that that packet of cards and I want you to look at the card that you cut to. Look at it and remember it. Okay. You got it? There's no way I can see it right now. I can't see behind you, right? I want you to take the rest of the deck, put it to the side. Rest of the deck, put it to the side. And I want you to take that small packet of cards without showing me any of the faces. I want you to give them a mix. Mix them up. Mix them, mix them, mix them, mix them up as much as you want. There we go. Great. So you're thinking of a card right now, right? You just cut the deck wherever you wanted. That was completely your choice. That's your deck of cards. I haven't touched them or anything weird. You're thinking of one card in your head. I want you to spread the cards out in your hand right now. Now again, you shuffled that card in there somewhere. I could have no idea. I want you to make sure you can see every single one of the faces of those cards in your hand. Just like you were playing poker. You can see your card. I want you to focus in on the card that you are thinking of with your eyes. But again, I don't know where your card is in that pack because you shuffled them yourself right just focus in and there's no way I can see good I can't see in your glasses or anything like that. Good. Close up the cards. Good, look right here at me. Now you would admit there's no way I can know what your card is, right? Absolutely. I want you to think of it. In a deck, there's black cards and there's red cards. Okay. The black card, yeah? It's a black card. There's spades and there's clubs. Yeah. Did you see that blink? It was right after I said spades. Was it a spade? It's a spade. Is it the four of spades? It's the four of spades. But here's the crazy part. Here's the crazy part. Before you did anything, before you even thought of a card, I had you look at one thing. I want you to look at my poster. Look at my poster. Remember I told you to look into my eyes? Yes. Look into my eyes. Actually zoom right into my eyes like right into my pupils of my eyes see you could have thought of any card right in the pupils of my eyes oh my gosh four of spades it |
| Stephen Pulvirent | says there's a four and a spade. I will screenshot this so that we can uh we can uh put it somewhere but that is absolutely insane Alright, if this hasn't convinced you to check this out, I don't I really don't know what to tell people. That is unbelievable. And that's that's the thing that I think is so fun about this that you you touched on earlier. It's one thing to go do this in your space on you know a Saturday night, the lights are dim, somebody brings me a cocktail. It's I'm in your world. Like I'm I'm in my apartment at 10 30 in the morning on a like a Tuesday and like to have this experience at home like that is is unreal |
| Dan White | . Yeah, and just bringing it all the way home, that's what it is for me. I could sit here and do card manipulations and do cool things, but if I was just doing that you'd be watching TV essentially, right? Yeah. The fact that you know you the that that was on that's your phone, right? That's your deck of cards. All that's happening on your end is what's so that's what I would want to see as a spectator I would want to feel a part of it um because you know one thing about magic and I'm sorry to sort of ramble on about it but like magic kind of makes you nervous as a spectator, right? There's a certain like what's gonna happen. And it's it's that uh it's the surprise, it's the mystery, it's all of those things because you don't know what's gonna happen. You don't know what the end goal is. So having that nervousness still uh you know, you feel that same thing, that sort of tension um is really great because you don't get that from watching magic on TV, right? Because you know it's gonna everything's gonna work out, you can sit back, you know exactly now it's on TV it's just about figuring it out. But when it's happening in your own hand, you become part of it and you get that same sort of energy. And it it's it's really great. It's great to experience and I'm I'm I'm I'm glad you are noticing those things because it is a really big difference between |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. I couldn't agree more and this is so much fun. And uh Dan, thanks so much for doing this. Thanks for coming on. It's so much fun to chat uh anytime we can, especially on mic. And uh yeah, I mean, like I said earlier, um go check it out. It's the magician online. Uh we'll link it up in the show notes. Uh tickets sell out pretty quickly. So I would say be on top of it. And if it's something you want to do, uh you may have to check in a couple times. But uh I just personally can't recommend it highly enough. And uh yeah, Dan, any anything you want to say to to close things |
| Dan White | out? Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really I really appreciate it. And I personally really look forward to get getting back into watches um especially when I can start to try them on and actually feel them. Not that I can't right now, but it you know it's just it's a little bit of a different thing. |
| Stephen Pulvirent | Yeah. So well when it's safe we'll go uh we'll go check some watches out, have some cocktails and uh hang out. Yeah I mean I just want to hang and get a drink with you. I don't think same no same. I uh man I can't I I cannot wait until I can go have a cocktail with friends at the nomad bar. Like that is that is top of the list of things to do. Yeah. Oof. Absolutely. Awesome man. Thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time and uh hope to hope to talk to you soon and hope to see you soon. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. |